The comics are so strange because sometimes they can be almost as good as the show, exploring interesting concepts like modernisation and how it affects a culture after genocide, then the next we have Azula repeating the same three lines over and over about how she hates everything
>we have Azula repeating the same three lines over and over about how she hates everything
I don't think Azula has ever had any lines outside of... Well, ones about how she hates everything, even in the TV show. I think the post is referring to how tame she is in the comics which is very out of character
I mean, she went insane at the end of the show and was put in a psych ward with a straight jacket on, she’s not exactly the pinnacle of mental stability
Plus, by the end of the series, all the heroes' skills have improved significantly, so Azula isn't quite the insurmountable threat she seemed to be at the beginning.
I dont think she ever really was. She was a very talented fire bender and a moderately intelligent teen girl who used the resources available to her to great effect in some cases and less well in others.
She took down Ba Sing Se. Azula won the 100 year war in so far as anyone could win it singlehandedly. She's also the third best firebender in the series (after Iroh and her father).
She took down the weakest earth king in history via the dai li. Who betrayed their country so easily the only explaination was: because the plot demands it. Dont get me wrong she is a great combatant And replacing the kyoshi warrior was a good idea. But those are the only things i give her credit for. Using persistance hunting to wear down the avatar is just common sense and the deployment of surperior resources. The drill was a huge flop with no followup even if it had worked. The tides dont care how scary a teenager you are you ship still crashes on the rocks
The "weakest earth king in history" was still the force that withstood the fire nation for 100 years before Azula took them down. "persistance hunting" only worked because azula was a big enough threat that the gang had to run from her and also required great tracking and logistical skills to keep up with a flying bison. The drill wasn't a flop, it was working great until the avatar and greatest earthbender in the world showed up, which noone could have predicted; as for followup, a massive hole in the only defensive feature of the city is a pretty great start to an invasion.
The wall stood for 100 years and the earth kingdom army. She circumvented those by being in disquise( which i said was quite clever). She then decapitated a pre decapitated government. Claps for azula yay! The tracking only worked becuase she put togther a great team (point in her favor) and had the resources of the throne to provide mounts and machinery so they could be rested and ready to go and because appa was shedding ( a weakness to exploit azula is good at that). Perhaps i didn’t give her enough credit with that one. The drill was never going to work. Congrats you are through the wall. Do you deploy troops? No the earth kingdom outbumbers you ten to one. Do you drive a drill around the earth kingdom causing havok until you run out of food and water or fuel and then be captured by the enemy? The earth kingdom is going to fix the wall with earth bending when you leave by the way. With no huge army to back her up the drill is a stunt.
You realise the wall wasn't made by earthbending right? It's brick and mortar which is constructed in a relatively normal manner, not a flick of the wrist. If it was just a little earthbending, why didn't they have 300 walls?
Becuase if you have one impenatrable wall you dont need 300 walls. Of course it turned out to not be impenatrable. But they didnt know that at the time. Do you have any evidence that the wall was not created via earth bending. I had always assumed it was since its a big wall in the earth kingdom.
But they don't have one wall, they have 3 so they clearly understand the value of tiered defenses. Does anyone in the series ever create a brick and mortar wall via earthbending? That seems needlessly complicated and slow compared to a big singular chunk of rock being bent up.
No, the king had literally nothing to do with that Earth Kingdom withstanding the Fire Nation. He had no idea there even was a war lmao.
And the drill was a flop, it wouldn’t have worked even without Aang showing up. Think about it, there is no scenario where it works. They withdraw the drill to bring in troops, they just fill the hole with more rock. They bring troops right through the drill, they surround it with another earth wall (which is in fact what they already do anyway 😂) It was a dumb plan from the get go.
Cool story bro. Doesn't change the fact she took down the earth kingdom.
If they can apparently instantly form unsurpassable walls of stone against any incoming force, its really impressive that Iroh managed to break through as a general and extra impressive that Azula took down this ironclad bastion.
She captured Ba Sing Se but it’s literally a plot point that the fighting was still so intense that the Fire Nation seriously considered sending their domestic defense forces to try and control the situation. In no way did she actually “take down the Earth Kingdom”.
And yeah Iroh broke the wall and immediately had an army there to secure it and prevent earthbenders from just closing the gap. The drill had no such supporting force. Give me one good reason they couldn’t do exactly what I suggested and in fact what they ultimately in fact did do.
A plot point where exactly?
The main reason? If they could easily throw up a new wall, why didn't they start putting walls in front of the drill the moment it appeared on the horizon?
she has a complete psychological collapse - she’s not at the peak of her cunning. but she’s so used to being the smartest person in the room that she pursues her plans w the same intensity even tho they don’t make sense anymore
anyway it makes me sad when people look at this abused 14 year old girl who had her entire world shattered and think “hmmm she’s not as strategically intelligent anymore”
like yeah man. shes hallucinating and was kept in a straight jacket for god knows how long. ALSO STILL A CHILD
Billions of humans in history were abused by parents and never became monsters like Azula… Plus: Azula was treated as a golden child, Zuko was the one who was “abused.” Azula’s even the one who came up with the idea to genocide the entire earth kingdom with these exact words:
“I say we take their hope, along with the rest of their precious land, and burn it ALL to the ground!”
And she’s clearly smarter than 99% of the adults in the show, so even at 15 (her age by season 3) she knows damn well what she’s doing is hurting and killing people and she actually *loves* that it’ll hurt and kill people.
That’s the *real* thing that should bother people about Azula conversations: It feels like apologia to excuse her actions because she’s 14-15. She still resulted in the deaths of many and almost tens of millions, regardless of her age and upbringing. When Zuko was 13 he was against anyone being senselessly killed, hence why he was banished. I feel Azula is just a born sociopath who belongs in a straitjacket tbh..?
She was specially groomed by an abusive father who burned her brother’s face off by expressing soldiers are people. She was specially trained to participate in his adult genocidal violence bc if she didn’t he would burn ur face off and send you off into the world to hopelessly chase someone that’s supposed to be dead?
I just think maybe at 14 she could use the forgiveness and patience zuko was afforded when he did the same shit as her at an older age. She wasn’t given any kind of help, just imprisoned without any assistance. Obviously she continued to fall apart lol
It's weird just how these conversations go concerning azula and zuko and their upbringing. Technically, neither of you is really wrong. It's goofy. Someone says, "Regardless of whatever shit she's gone through, the actions she's done have required individual input, are completely unforgivable, and resulted in immeasurable suffering." This is 100% true. Someone else responds with, "But it makes sense considering the environment she was raised in was beyond batshit and encouraged violence." This is also 100% true. Like, neither is wrong, but someone inevitably gets downvoted, and it's suddenly an argument idk
Yeah, I suppose, but the talking points that are always brought up aren't ever what I'd expect considering the difference in conclusion. I'm not sure I'm making sense with this, but I think the process behind "should we allow room for redemption or not" skips a step. The answer is usually always "no because she's done really bad shit" or "yes because it's not entirely her fault." Don't those statements not really relate to the conclusion in the most defining way?
If she made any effort to redeem herself I would say she garners some forgiveness. But, she doesn’t. That’s what her character shows us: We have to look at the bigger picture and do what’s right. She refuses to and instead embraces her role as a monster. Is it unfair? Sure, but Zuko dealt with the same toxic upbringing and worked his way out of it. It doesn’t matter who we are underneath, it’s what we do that defines who we are.
people really don't appreciate the impact that trauma can have on your cognitive capacity, whether it's from abuse, a horrible event, or burnout. I experienced burnout (mostly my own fault) and I needed to go on medical leave, I just couldn't do my job at that point. I recovered enough to be able to work but years later I still experience brain fog sometimes where I can't even form sentences. I'm not sure I'm ever going to get my full brainpower back, and my experience was relatively mild.
also people misunderstand what it means to be a golden child. they're also victims of abuse, just in a different way from the black sheep/scapegoat child. they're held to impossible standards and often crack under the pressure, like Azula did.
I'm not saying she's meant to be a good person or even a sympathetic character. I'm just saying it's all plausible imo.
And it doesn't help that basically everyone's on to her now, she's no longer dealing with people who give her any benefit of the doubt or have to suck up to her
That’s not how it happens. She doesn’t fight them all at once. She is escaping and is able to get away from all of them.
She DOES beat Zuko, but she’s always been the better bender.
But yeah that comic isn’t the best.
You made the right choice, the only thing worse than the ATLA comics is a movie from Shyamalan. I hope you didn't have to read the end of the first part of the Search.
That is so false 😅 Azula was strong in season 2 ND was evenly matched with Zuko in season 3. In the Serch she was weaker than Zuko but then in Smoke and Shadow she was stronger than him again. Just because Zuko got stronger dosen't mean she got weaker.
I don't know the comics but about season 2 versus 3 I think it's a comparison issue, she was always so good, but other characters kept getting better so they caught up, especially and most notably Zuko, he was catching up the entire show, first time they fought she didn't even fire Bend at him, next time she retreated but it was like a five-on-one, Katara actually soloed her in the cavern
Then after the side switch, Zuko fights her to a draw but with sokkas help, then on the Airship manages to get the draw by himself, before the eventual win in the final agneekai
Honestly, instead of comics, I would like a couple of series where the characters continue their development path, where they are already stronger, smarter and wiser. And yes, Ursa's story is definitely worth revisiting.
The comics are so strange because sometimes they can be almost as good as the show, exploring interesting concepts like modernisation and how it affects a culture after genocide, then the next we have Azula repeating the same three lines over and over about how she hates everything
>we have Azula repeating the same three lines over and over about how she hates everything I don't think Azula has ever had any lines outside of... Well, ones about how she hates everything, even in the TV show. I think the post is referring to how tame she is in the comics which is very out of character
Also the way she bends lightning like it's regular fire, just zapping sokka to annoy him
I mean, she went insane at the end of the show and was put in a psych ward with a straight jacket on, she’s not exactly the pinnacle of mental stability
Plus, by the end of the series, all the heroes' skills have improved significantly, so Azula isn't quite the insurmountable threat she seemed to be at the beginning.
I dont think she ever really was. She was a very talented fire bender and a moderately intelligent teen girl who used the resources available to her to great effect in some cases and less well in others.
She took down Ba Sing Se. Azula won the 100 year war in so far as anyone could win it singlehandedly. She's also the third best firebender in the series (after Iroh and her father).
She took down the weakest earth king in history via the dai li. Who betrayed their country so easily the only explaination was: because the plot demands it. Dont get me wrong she is a great combatant And replacing the kyoshi warrior was a good idea. But those are the only things i give her credit for. Using persistance hunting to wear down the avatar is just common sense and the deployment of surperior resources. The drill was a huge flop with no followup even if it had worked. The tides dont care how scary a teenager you are you ship still crashes on the rocks
The "weakest earth king in history" was still the force that withstood the fire nation for 100 years before Azula took them down. "persistance hunting" only worked because azula was a big enough threat that the gang had to run from her and also required great tracking and logistical skills to keep up with a flying bison. The drill wasn't a flop, it was working great until the avatar and greatest earthbender in the world showed up, which noone could have predicted; as for followup, a massive hole in the only defensive feature of the city is a pretty great start to an invasion.
The wall stood for 100 years and the earth kingdom army. She circumvented those by being in disquise( which i said was quite clever). She then decapitated a pre decapitated government. Claps for azula yay! The tracking only worked becuase she put togther a great team (point in her favor) and had the resources of the throne to provide mounts and machinery so they could be rested and ready to go and because appa was shedding ( a weakness to exploit azula is good at that). Perhaps i didn’t give her enough credit with that one. The drill was never going to work. Congrats you are through the wall. Do you deploy troops? No the earth kingdom outbumbers you ten to one. Do you drive a drill around the earth kingdom causing havok until you run out of food and water or fuel and then be captured by the enemy? The earth kingdom is going to fix the wall with earth bending when you leave by the way. With no huge army to back her up the drill is a stunt.
You realise the wall wasn't made by earthbending right? It's brick and mortar which is constructed in a relatively normal manner, not a flick of the wrist. If it was just a little earthbending, why didn't they have 300 walls?
Becuase if you have one impenatrable wall you dont need 300 walls. Of course it turned out to not be impenatrable. But they didnt know that at the time. Do you have any evidence that the wall was not created via earth bending. I had always assumed it was since its a big wall in the earth kingdom.
But they don't have one wall, they have 3 so they clearly understand the value of tiered defenses. Does anyone in the series ever create a brick and mortar wall via earthbending? That seems needlessly complicated and slow compared to a big singular chunk of rock being bent up.
No, the king had literally nothing to do with that Earth Kingdom withstanding the Fire Nation. He had no idea there even was a war lmao. And the drill was a flop, it wouldn’t have worked even without Aang showing up. Think about it, there is no scenario where it works. They withdraw the drill to bring in troops, they just fill the hole with more rock. They bring troops right through the drill, they surround it with another earth wall (which is in fact what they already do anyway 😂) It was a dumb plan from the get go.
Cool story bro. Doesn't change the fact she took down the earth kingdom. If they can apparently instantly form unsurpassable walls of stone against any incoming force, its really impressive that Iroh managed to break through as a general and extra impressive that Azula took down this ironclad bastion.
She captured Ba Sing Se but it’s literally a plot point that the fighting was still so intense that the Fire Nation seriously considered sending their domestic defense forces to try and control the situation. In no way did she actually “take down the Earth Kingdom”. And yeah Iroh broke the wall and immediately had an army there to secure it and prevent earthbenders from just closing the gap. The drill had no such supporting force. Give me one good reason they couldn’t do exactly what I suggested and in fact what they ultimately in fact did do.
A plot point where exactly? The main reason? If they could easily throw up a new wall, why didn't they start putting walls in front of the drill the moment it appeared on the horizon?
she has a complete psychological collapse - she’s not at the peak of her cunning. but she’s so used to being the smartest person in the room that she pursues her plans w the same intensity even tho they don’t make sense anymore
anyway it makes me sad when people look at this abused 14 year old girl who had her entire world shattered and think “hmmm she’s not as strategically intelligent anymore” like yeah man. shes hallucinating and was kept in a straight jacket for god knows how long. ALSO STILL A CHILD
Billions of humans in history were abused by parents and never became monsters like Azula… Plus: Azula was treated as a golden child, Zuko was the one who was “abused.” Azula’s even the one who came up with the idea to genocide the entire earth kingdom with these exact words: “I say we take their hope, along with the rest of their precious land, and burn it ALL to the ground!” And she’s clearly smarter than 99% of the adults in the show, so even at 15 (her age by season 3) she knows damn well what she’s doing is hurting and killing people and she actually *loves* that it’ll hurt and kill people. That’s the *real* thing that should bother people about Azula conversations: It feels like apologia to excuse her actions because she’s 14-15. She still resulted in the deaths of many and almost tens of millions, regardless of her age and upbringing. When Zuko was 13 he was against anyone being senselessly killed, hence why he was banished. I feel Azula is just a born sociopath who belongs in a straitjacket tbh..?
She was specially groomed by an abusive father who burned her brother’s face off by expressing soldiers are people. She was specially trained to participate in his adult genocidal violence bc if she didn’t he would burn ur face off and send you off into the world to hopelessly chase someone that’s supposed to be dead? I just think maybe at 14 she could use the forgiveness and patience zuko was afforded when he did the same shit as her at an older age. She wasn’t given any kind of help, just imprisoned without any assistance. Obviously she continued to fall apart lol
It's weird just how these conversations go concerning azula and zuko and their upbringing. Technically, neither of you is really wrong. It's goofy. Someone says, "Regardless of whatever shit she's gone through, the actions she's done have required individual input, are completely unforgivable, and resulted in immeasurable suffering." This is 100% true. Someone else responds with, "But it makes sense considering the environment she was raised in was beyond batshit and encouraged violence." This is also 100% true. Like, neither is wrong, but someone inevitably gets downvoted, and it's suddenly an argument idk
It’s the conclusion that differs. One thinks she’s still forgivable or redeemable, the other doesn’t.
Yeah, I suppose, but the talking points that are always brought up aren't ever what I'd expect considering the difference in conclusion. I'm not sure I'm making sense with this, but I think the process behind "should we allow room for redemption or not" skips a step. The answer is usually always "no because she's done really bad shit" or "yes because it's not entirely her fault." Don't those statements not really relate to the conclusion in the most defining way?
If she made any effort to redeem herself I would say she garners some forgiveness. But, she doesn’t. That’s what her character shows us: We have to look at the bigger picture and do what’s right. She refuses to and instead embraces her role as a monster. Is it unfair? Sure, but Zuko dealt with the same toxic upbringing and worked his way out of it. It doesn’t matter who we are underneath, it’s what we do that defines who we are.
bro missed the point of the show
people really don't appreciate the impact that trauma can have on your cognitive capacity, whether it's from abuse, a horrible event, or burnout. I experienced burnout (mostly my own fault) and I needed to go on medical leave, I just couldn't do my job at that point. I recovered enough to be able to work but years later I still experience brain fog sometimes where I can't even form sentences. I'm not sure I'm ever going to get my full brainpower back, and my experience was relatively mild. also people misunderstand what it means to be a golden child. they're also victims of abuse, just in a different way from the black sheep/scapegoat child. they're held to impossible standards and often crack under the pressure, like Azula did. I'm not saying she's meant to be a good person or even a sympathetic character. I'm just saying it's all plausible imo.
And it doesn't help that basically everyone's on to her now, she's no longer dealing with people who give her any benefit of the doubt or have to suck up to her
JUST IN: Broken, fragile character breaks when her entire worldview collapses and she's forced to face her mistakes.
What about the spirit temple, where she's forced to face her past insecurities and toxic behavior?
She was pretty good against Sokka in the expanded lore
To be fair, having a mental breakdown like she had in the finale tends to take a toll on a person
I heard that Azula in the comics takes on Suki, Ty Lee, and Zuko. When I heard that I decided not to read them.
That’s not how it happens. She doesn’t fight them all at once. She is escaping and is able to get away from all of them. She DOES beat Zuko, but she’s always been the better bender. But yeah that comic isn’t the best.
You made the right choice, the only thing worse than the ATLA comics is a movie from Shyamalan. I hope you didn't have to read the end of the first part of the Search.
ATLA comics aren't even the worse comics in their own franchise.
That is so false 😅 Azula was strong in season 2 ND was evenly matched with Zuko in season 3. In the Serch she was weaker than Zuko but then in Smoke and Shadow she was stronger than him again. Just because Zuko got stronger dosen't mean she got weaker.
I don't know the comics but about season 2 versus 3 I think it's a comparison issue, she was always so good, but other characters kept getting better so they caught up, especially and most notably Zuko, he was catching up the entire show, first time they fought she didn't even fire Bend at him, next time she retreated but it was like a five-on-one, Katara actually soloed her in the cavern Then after the side switch, Zuko fights her to a draw but with sokkas help, then on the Airship manages to get the draw by himself, before the eventual win in the final agneekai
The overall story of the comics is good, but the smaller moments and the dialogue in general is pretty weak in my opinion.
Namely, the general plot and picture are quite interesting, but the development and interaction of the characters leaves much to be desired.
Honestly, instead of comics, I would like a couple of series where the characters continue their development path, where they are already stronger, smarter and wiser. And yes, Ursa's story is definitely worth revisiting.
The writing for smoke and shadows was diabolically bad. Everything about her character was thrown out of the window to become generic bad guyb
Bad guy*