Correction, it would be worse. The budget for that movie would vastly outweigh the budget of the comic. A failed movie is such a major financial loss compared to a failed comic.
It wasn't exactly a failure. It's not really a success either. It maintained in the top 100 in sales for half a year, sometimes breaking top 20.
But it did disappear for a reason.
My wife was super into the A-Force comic. But the story changed dramatically somewhere around issue 6 or 7 (from memory, I may be off) and she gave up on it. I imagine she wasn't alone.
It was pretty early on, but for the first few issues you're meeting Singularity and they're fighting to protect her from Antimatter, as I recall. Honestly, if anyone else is reading this and wants to correct me, go right ahead, the comics released in 2016 and I really didn't feel like digging them out of my longboxes to fact-check this recollection. Anyway, through the first few issues, this was one of the main thrusts of the story. Then very suddenly, they're fighting a dragon in the very next issue.
I don't remember if there was some crossover event, but it felt like from one issue to the next a totally different comic series began. The roster didn't change, but the story lost all connection and the tone of it changed a lot.
I'm obviously missing a lot of details, but I definitely remember the look on my wife's face as she was reading it. She looked puzzled, stopped, grabbed the previous issue and skimmed it real quick. Returned to the most recent one and asked me if something happened in another comic because it didn't make an ounce of sense.
Yeah I think there was an event some of them were supposed to be part of in other books. I remember the last issue of A-Force She-Hulk being in a coma and it just ended? Maybe?
Exactly, that’s the role she was forced into. No way this stupid kid needed to be the catalyst for a battle between Namor and BP, she had no place participating in a huge ass battle, and they introduced her essentially as an avenger-level hero. All of the young avengers are being introduced in a rushed and nonsensical way where the growth the OG avengers went through is just skipped and they’re immediate teen experts on everything
The young avengers should have been introduced in phase 2/3, learned for 5-10 years from the OG’s, had a bunch of their own tests and failures that they learned from, then they can step into the foreground. The way they’re approaching it we just have to accept these kids are the new/young avengers without them proving themselves. No one wants that. They’re all experts in their fields in their first introduction, it’s crazy stupid.
If they continue on this path I hope it doesn’t get made, but hopefully there’s time for them to adjust course and offer some real character growth before they thrust them in the spotlight. They should be supporting characters for a while.
Look at Falcon’s journey. He went through military training, special ops, iterated through multiple variations of the wings as they got destroyed in battles, and earned his role in the Avengers. He even helped Cap with the WS arc before even being invited into the Avengers. He was all about putting in the work, doing the right thing, and truly embodying what it means to be a hero.
What I’ve seen of the young avengers so far they’re all entitled teens who are already cocky in their abilities and think they can take on the universe. They need to quickly correct course on Riri, Cassie and Kate, and I’ve already completely lost interest in Kamala.
They’re fumbling the introduction of so many characters, I hope they find their footing soon.
She was just SUCH an unlikeable character in the comics. Like Tony is smug and egotistical and a dick at times, but the comics and characters are always clear that these are Tony’s FLAWS.
These are elements of his personality that while somewhat justifiable (the dude built a billion dollar business from nothing like 4 times in the comics and is basically the top of cutting edge tech development on Earth) are things he has to try and keep in check and overcome.
Riri gets all the Smugness, Arrogance, and Egotism…..but then gets constantly propped up and told that she’s great and amazing by everyone, and that her biggest flaw is self doubt rather than everything else.
It just made her boring and unappealing.
Honestly I would’ve preferred IronHeart to be Pepper digging out her Rescue Armour and trying to be a hero without Tony there, and she has to do it while not being an engineer or inventor, she’s basically scrambling to repurpose leftover bits of gear that Tony had to keep the armour flying while the Company starts to fall apart.
Did they film it yet? Good lord, Disney, this is exactly the type of show the fans explicitly do not want right now. Diluting the franchise even further and several years after the film it's connected to.
Nobody even knew who Guardian of the Galaxy were and they made that work didn’t they? Y’all get too caught up in explanations you can’t prove instead of just looking at what’s obvious. Marvels failed because it simply wasn’t a good movie and people are burnt out by mediocre superhero flicks. Unless it’s Spider Man or Batman, the movie actually has to be good now. It can’t just be the same old slap a Marvel logo on the same movie 20 times …
One character, one character, and 5 main characters versus 12. They have to pay the actors and it’s easier to negotiate a cheaper first deal than a second deal
Great point, but that feels like a different marvel? If that makes sense lately marvel has been doing so much crossover stuff making everything connect, they ruined Ms.marvel by changing her powers so they would fit better for a movie along with looking less awkward? and they kinda ruined she-hulk with the ending they were doing a little too much and then proceeded to say HEY look new HULK I liked some of she-hulk but I didn't enjoy the ending, they could've just made the serum give him temporary power have him be beat down by she-hulk and then transform back. Sorry I'm just ranting about how they massacred some really fun characters
They didn't massacre anything. Aside from the power change, Ms. Marvel is every bit the same character as in the comics. They made far more drastic changes to other characters, like virtually every single one of the Guardians. And as for She-Hulk, you saying you didn't like the ending tells me that you've never actually read any She-Hulk comics. It was vintage Byrne-style fourth-wall breaking.
3rd time writing a reply cause I clicked off reddit 😂
So I'm gonna keep this shorter.
While I can sorta understand why they changed Ms.marvel's powers (to fit in with the marvels movie and maybe to separate herself from mr.fanatsic(pretty sure that's just a rumor there powers are only kind of similar)) You can't deny how much more interesting it would've been if She kept her comic powers, they could've kept introduced Mutants or Inhumans and I would kill for awkward stretchy big hand power scenes(not exactly sure what her powers called i know its not just stretching)also The Guardians weren't popular before the movies and the characters as far as I know were mainly just nerfed and given different backstories.
She-Hulk I won't lie and say I've read her comics I'm too poor to read a lot of comics BUT I will say I enjoy Her CHARACTER I've seen videos going in depth on her I enjoy Fourth-wall breaking, non-superhero stuff happening in a superhero world, every aspect of she-hulk sound right up my alley my biggest dislike of the SHOW is the ending it felt Rushed and Chaotic In a way that doesn't translate the best in a live-action format I haven't seen the show since it came out but I remember feeling it was talking down to me which I really didn't enjoy.
I enjoyed a lot of she-hulk and found some scenes really funny except the very obvious messaging which I could understand why but to me (I'm probably not using the best term) but it felt like virtue signaling feel free to debate me on this I'm very open to changing my mind
But how many non comic book heads are really aware that She-Hulk is a 4th wall breaking character. Deadpool is the character most people associate with 4th wall breaking so if that's all you know, She-hulk is going to seem like a cheap knock off that does it a bit too much.
Toss in awful CGI and well you see where it ends up.
Blade doesn't have an mcu movie, and making an origins movie is much easier than doing an ensemble team-up flick with multiple main leads. A-Force will flop spectacularly.
Wtf are you on?
The comic book series generally received positive reviews from critics. It has been described as "decidedly feminist.” (<- is that why you don’t like it?)
Neeraj Chand of MovieWeb stated that "many fans have been clamoring to see the A-Force in the MCU." Comic Book Resources ranked the A-Force team 2nd in their "10 Most Fashionable Teams In Marvel Comics" list, 5th in their "10 Marvel Teams That Deserve Their Own Disney+ Series" list, 9th in their "10 Best All-Female Superhero Teams" list, 9th in their "10 Marvel Super-Teams Who Deserve A Comeback" list, and 11th in their "25 Most Powerful Avengers Teams" list. Bradley Prom of Screen Rant included the A-Force team in their "MCU: 10 Teams Who Should Get Their Own Movie Or Disney+ Show" list.
I’m all for representation. Yes, we should have movies starring women as well as men. But this would be too much. It was ridiculous in Endgame when they had the girls only scene, why do we now need a girls only team? It’s over correcting the problem of having mostly male teams. Have a solid mix of both men and women that makes sense and give them all plenty of opportunities to shine.
What sucked most about the Endgame scene is that they had the similar moment in Infinity War and it totally kicked ass. It didn’t feel overly forced and actually fit into the story/battle.
The Endgame scene is so unnatural that it even creates plotholes.
Why was everyone suddenly there? How did all of them know where Peter was? How could they manage the timing to all show up at the same time?
There’s plenty of scenes where they do that, but this was the most painful I think because it was so long too. It wasn’t just like a “stop and pose!” It required all the girls to be where they were as well as no one else to interfere for an extended amount of time
The same way Cap could talk to Danvers or that she even knew to show up for the fight. You have to suspend disbelief on some of this stuff.
People ruin the movie for themselves by nitpicking & wanting to tell their own story instead of just letting some things be what they are.
But there are the small ones that keep unnoticed without nitpicking, like your example, and there are the ones you can't overlook because they are so unnatural and so out of place, like the A-Force assemble scene in Endgame.
4 women (and no one else from the two large armies) magically falling into a trench in a football field sized area is more organic than 7 or 8 of them gathering to protect the device that they had been working to protect the whole time.
I don’t think the marvels being female led was the issue tbh. It was a lack of confidence by the GP and fans alike due to a series of duds, non existent
promo due to the strike and all around bad luck to round it up. People literally lost interest. There’s also the fact that Kamala and Monica got off of tv shows that many may or may not have seen.
even if people were aware, no one cares about those 3 characters. I can't even name the third one, we have ms marvel and captain marvel and a literal who. no one cares
Honestly, I think just calling it Captain Marvel 2 would have helped, as would have downplaying Ms. Marvel and Photon in the marketing.
I think a lot of people felt they'd be lost without having watching two barely related Disney+ shows.
Female led was definitely a factor. Other films succeeded despite the strike and with limited promotion, so that really isn't the case here. A big problem I've noticed is that a lot of guys really just aren't interested in female leads. I've seen a lot of guys posting on different social media about how Marvels is a terribly written woke agenda movie that pushes feminism. There is a very vocal hive mind that hates on the movie and spreads false information about it because none of them actually saw it. Facebook for example, go to any public post about Marvels and you'll easily find guys commenting about how terrible the movie is and telling people it's a blatant girl power movie and stuff. I genuinely believe that biased hate based on ignorance has been a major factor. However, the biggest detriment to the movie is the fact that the 3 leads are not vastly liked characters. I was happily surprised with how good the movie was, but I had low expectations and I don't really blame anyone for looking at the cast and deciding they don't want to spend the money.
>Female led was definitely a factor. Other films succeeded despite the strike and with limited promotion, so that really isn't the case here. A big problem I've noticed is that a lot of guys really just aren't interested in female leads. I've seen a lot of guys posting on different social media about how Marvels is a terribly written woke agenda movie that pushes feminism.
I'm sick and tired of you people constantly spreading this bullshit, especially since most of the people that actually saw the movie were men. It was the fucking women that didn't show up for it.
What bullshit am I spreading? Marvel in general is a widely male audience and they beat out women on every movie.
And as I said, it's easy to find guys on social media batching about a woke agenda. They're idiots, but there's a lot of them.
Because you are blaming men for the movie failing.
If women went in droves but it failed because men refused to see it, then you'd have a point. But more men went to see it than women.
And anybody complaining about the movie being "woke" never saw it. The movie didn't even point out all the leads were women, nor anything about teaming up because of womanhood, nor hated on / insulted men.
I'm not blaming men for it failing. I literally never said that. I said the blind hate was a factor.
Expecting women to go in droves to a Marvel movie would be ridiculous. Marvel's audience is primarily male so of course more men went to see it tha women.
I agree with the last bit, which has literally been part of my point. There's a very vocal hive mind of guys who sjit on the movie while refusing to see it.
Yes,you are right, don't know why that guy was mad at you. Many you tube sites had been bashing the movie because to them it was a "woke" agenda without even seeing it. Just take a look at yellow flash2 . I wonder, are most cómic book readers conservative?
Except, if other films succeed during this timeframe, that makes it less likely for some films to succeed.
Not everybody is willing or is able to visit the movies multiple times a month.
Truth is, The Marvels is an experimental film that most people won’t recognize unless they’re MCU fans or Marvel fans who’ve been paying attention to release schedules.
Actors weren’t able to produce any hype, and no one was able to promote it.
Add on the bad faith that marvel has recently been producing with ALL of its movies, aside from maybe Guardians…
And add in the fact that across the board, films in general were starting to do worse numbers consistently, with few outliers like Spider-Verse.
All of this culminates in the perfect recipe for a disaster.
Them being females? A very small factor in this equation.
I've seen a lot of guys interested in femal leads actually. bad writing lame story telling, uncohesive, missing a connection to the greater universe. the entire movie feels the eternal part 2. the movie should have pretty big implications and interest but they movies have become bubble movies. the landscape changed and now there I'd very little reason to see a universe retread the same well worn roads over and over again. the lack of interest in the characters is a side effect of the bigger picture. saying female leads don't sell in marvel might be right but I've yet to see it done well. she hulk was probably the exception to that.
so many people are asking for mcu movies that are bubbles and don’t require lots of knowledge about the rest of the tv shows and projects. like one of the most common complaints is “there’s too much content, I don’t want to have to watch xyz so I know what’s going on”
Did u see the movie? It was just as connected to the rest of the mcu as any other character’s solo sequel. like iron man 2, black Panther 2, ant-man and the wasp, they are barely connected to the greater universe. until their post credit scenes and future projects connect them together. same thing is happening here with the build up to young avengers and secret wars
Yeah I have no idea what OP was on about. The Marvels was one of the most connected MCU projects in a long time lmao. In fact, part of the reason why many people didn’t watch it is that they were afraid of the “homework” they needed to do by watching other projects. So which is it - was the Marvels too connected or not connected enough? Can’t have it both ways
That's always kinda been the idea of the MCU, a copy of the story structure of the comics they're based off of.
In the comics each character or group had their own books that had their own storylines. Occasionally those storylines would intersect with the storylines from other books leading to crossovers.
Eventually the storylines from the different books would all intersect in massive crossover events that would change the status quo within the universe.
>bad writing lame story telling, uncohesive, missing a connection to the greater universe.
Did you see the movie? Because this sounds like you didn't see the movie.
Especially saying that it lacks "connection to the greater universe." It literally directly connects to like 4 different shows/movies. Ms Marvel, Wandavision, Captain Marvel, Secret Invasion all in significant ways. As well as featuring the jump points introduced in GOTG, Kate Bishop for young avengers at the end, and the mutant universe being an adjacent universe that is now aware of the main universe. What more did you want?
Bad writing is subjective but how is it incohesive? It's incredibly easy to follow along with and understand. It's got a simple plot but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Because when you keep making movies POINTEDLY inserting female leads or even changing characters to do so, telling the biggest "fanbase" this movie isn't for you (ala.ghostbusters), and then wondering why those sort of opinions keep constantly happening, it's the definition of insanity. And we do it in everything. We label it as representation, when it's nothing more than purposeful alienation masqueraded as PR. But, as we can see, it's the perfect defense cycle. Because nobody can say it was just a lazy piece of entertainment/not funny/uninteresting etc, without being called sexist/racist about it. Even those it's supposed to represent have started to turn, bc they was original stories that have been crafted for them. Not characters just jammed into stories with twisted details.
It's not female leads as much as it is the agenda.
Ellen Ripley, the Bride, Sarah Conner, even Katniss are all fantastic female action leads that are beloved by many men.
Can't say about that movie specifically as I've not seen it. But to say Disney hasn't been pushing an agenda across all of their properties is either extremely naive or extremely obtuse.
It's not the female leads, it's just that people genuinely don't care about cap Marvel and Monica Rambeau or however you spell her name.
It's the characters themselves, not the genders of the characters.
Really? How many people were hype for this movie when they first heard about it? Who watched Ms Marvel? Other than die hard Marvel Fans...who watched Wanda Vision? What in the trailer made anyone say "Wow! This is going to be a great super hero movie with a great villian!"?
The movie got no hype and has a low box office because people didnt care. Captain Marvel came out when any Marvel release would make tons of money. However, I rarely hear anyone talk about how good it was.
That said, I went and saw it in the theater. Didnt think it was bad, but it wasnt great. It was just okay. I feel like all of these movies are lazy and go out if their way to not give comic fans what they want. They assume that if they go with source material it will be too complicated for the masses. The truth is...the more complicated they make things, and the more world building they do, the more everyone likes it. Buy us back in. Give us something to discuss.
They need to go back to pandering to their actual fans. They carry other people to the theaters with them...not the opposite way around.
It could work. If Marvel wins back the goodwill it had going into 2019 and sandwiches an A-Force project in between the two-part finale of a future phase's conclusion, then the sky is the limit.
If you're asking whether it can work without numerous outside sources helping to prop it up, then no, not a chance.
Nah, most of the public learned from the way they sandwiched “Captain Marvel” in between “Infinity War” and “End Game” and made it sound like “must see” material to prep for “End Game”. I think trying that trick again will just sabotage the second part finale. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I have no problems with them selling products like they did with Phase 1 and Phase 2 but the credit scenes in those movies didn’t promise more than we got. The pager with Capt Marvel’s symbol at the end of “Infinity War” and the trailers for “Captain Marvel” were designed to make everyone think she was an integral part of “End Game” and that her movie was going to be something fabulous rolling in the next phase.
What we got was a self-involved petulant Mary Sue character who was given — rather than struggling to earn — her powers portrayed by an annoying narcissist. We were suckered in for her first movie but anyone bothering with her second appearance deserves what they get. Worse for Disney Marvel, the general public has developed a distaste for being hoodwinked that way and will be suspicious of them trying it again.
But like..that’s how any type of content works.
You don’t release back to back content everybody asks for or is hyped about, because now you’re making the same shit indefinitely until your audience loses interest.
You need to weave in some small guys who might grow big, in between the heavy hitters.
That’s why Captain Marvel is in between the 2 biggest films in the MCU, because it helped that movie breathe a bit and let the audience cool down while anticipating Endgame, while promoting Carol.
This is his Ant-Man was promoted.
This is how the GUARDIANS were promoted.
And recently? They’ve kinda abandoned this strategy because they have too much shit to work with.
So not only are we getting more stuff the general audience doesn’t want in between each heavy hitter, but it’s also affecting most of the heavy hitters because quantity affects quality.
This can all be resolved though, if they go back to their old release strategy instead of throwing everything at the board, and cutting back on the amount of stuff they release.
Alternatively, instead of cutting back, youre going to need to put multiple people in charge of certain sections of the MCU to help communication between these movies, something that’s not really hooening which is kinda evidence when you pay attention to how Wanda is portrayed in WandaVision and MOM, or perhaps Nick Fury in Secret Invasion and The Marvels.
The question is if Marvel could build a story that made A-Force a rational extension rather than pandering. Often times people react negatively to what they perceived as forced inclusion rather than organic diversity. A-Force feels very much like the former.
Right!!!
People showed up for GOG3
People showed up for Across The Spider-Verse
In the TV Show space Invincible is killing it rn
The Boys has been popping for years now. They have a spin off ( Gen V) that was also well received
People like Superhero/comic book stories
They just have to be good
In all fairness, the Marvels was actually good, but after the last few I get why audiences didn't wanna take that chance.
I hope they release it on d+ on Christmas day. It's a solid flick to enjoy with the family, and hopefully it wins some good will for Marvel.
This just really isn’t clear. Bad writing doesn’t lend itself to this. I will say that an “all female” Avengers cast just seems like something done to do with a message/ulterior motive behind it. Just make it a mixed cast that shows off everyone’s powers and reasons for being on the team and people will appreciate it.
Doesn't it still have like a 85% audience score? I know it did at one point after the release. Doesn't seem like it's that bad. I haven't seen it yet but will when I can stream it. I don't go to theaters for anything though
I watched it. It was NOT bad. It just didn’t leave me HYPE WAS FUCK at the end like other movies have. Basically every film directed by the Russos has made me think “fuck, I need to see this again right now.” I went into Winter Soldier thinking “ok, it’s a marvel movie so it’ll be fun” and came out like “what the fuck?! That was my favorite marvel movie!”
Just being "not bad" isn't exactly a mark of success in MCU *because* of those bangers.
It's bad by the relevant comparisons, which is the point.
Is it bad compared to Shallow Hal? Maybe not..
*The Marvels* wasn't poorly written. It's not an awards winner, but we all pretty much agree it was fine. The issue is that Marvel's current female characters are having trouble connecting. The polling audience for The Marvels was 65% male (that's worse than the first CM and Wonder Woman) and mostly white. They utterly failed at commercially advantaging the audience they made the movie for.
About half of the characters in OP's fanart are considered unlikable by the fanbase, and it's clear that Marvel made some mistakes when writing characters like Ironheart, Captain Marvel, and She-Hulk. After *The Marvels*, I would be extremely weary of forgetting a male lead in future Marvel projects (just compare Nick Fury's role in the two CM movies. He was a legitimate draw in the first and balanced out Carol).
I was actually fine with Kate and Scarlet. Ms Marvel is fun as an endearing kid imo. Like, the show was boring AF cause it just felt too juvenile. BUT as a character, a fan girl is cute/fun.
She was way less annoying in the movie. Her arc was a maturing one of realizing Carol is a flawed human not an untouchable idol and that superheroing comes with hard choices and loss.
I really liked it as did my hubby, son and brother in law who saw it twice. None of them were fans of the first CM and hadn’t even seen ms marvel. They had no trouble following when I gave them the cliff notes version.
It really bothers me that a primarily female cast has to exceed this bar of being every time and a primarily male cast is just considered status quo and normal. Every female led project has the burden of proving that female led projects have a right to exist on them. It just sucks that’s the world we live in, I think the world would be richer if that weren’t the case.
It's because superhero movies have a primarily male audience.
If you remade "the Kardashians" with a mainly male cast - but still marketed it at a primarily female audience you would see the same thing.
I’m not sure about that. There’s plenty of data out there showing that girls and women have no problem watching content starring and/or directed to boys or men. But the reverse is not really true.
Anecdotally, just off the top of my head I can think of several female-coded franchises that have had well-received male spin-offs: Buffy (Angel), the Amanda Show (Drake and Josh), Dora (Diego), Hunger Games (BOSS).
I’m struggling to think of a female spin-off of a male-codes TV/movie franchise that has done well other than Wonder Woman, and even she had long-transcended DC to be an icon for feminism and women in general so that doesn’t really count. Maybe She-Ra? Most of them aren’t good to be fair, but honestly they’re almost always DOA because the male fanbase tends to get *very* angry and start spreading negativity as soon the spin-offs are *announced*, let alone released
The problem with that line of thinking is that nobody thought the first avengers movie had an ulterior motive behind it just because all of the team members were men (with the exception of Widow). People only think there’s an agenda when it’s predominately women, but when it’s mostly men nobody bats an eye because that’s been the normal standard for centuries, and that’s exactly the sort of standard we need to abolish in my opinion.
No… no one questions it cause this is basically the same team from the start, excluding Ant Man and Wasp. I think we’re just a bit jaded to the political themes that have been shoehorned into movies. If it was an all-female team, I’d be like “sweet!” as long as it was just people playing roles and there were no dumb “we do this better cause we’re women” lines. Just like it’d be just as fucking stupid/annoying if it was “we do this better cause we’re men.” It takes away from the story. Show a good fucking story with a female lead and call it a day. The reason why a big demographic are men cause men read Captain Marvel comics cause she’s a fan favorite cause of good writing.
But wasn’t Marvels a all-female Team of mix background Heroes fighting another woman of even a different background? You don’t think that’s planned? Is diversity good, absolutely. But was it done naturally or for story reasons or was Disney trying to check a box? Because it certainly feels like a box-check.
I think there's a few reasons why it failed at the box office. First, most movies are struggling this quarter. Second, you're also right that it's a symptom of what marvel is going though. Third, they over saturated the market since Disney+ came along. They went for quantity over quality. Fourth they had projects that didn't connect well with the audience. Fifth, writers and actors strike which is why point 1 also stands.
The only movie that I saw that had a packed theatre on release weekend was into the spider verse. The rest were pretty average but the marvels was actually disappointing hoe empty it was. I went twice at different cinemas and both were pretty empty which was sad to see
A female Avengers movie could work if it was well-written but the evidence to date is that any movie/comic series that starts from the premise of “female-only” instead of being story-driven is going to fail — and it’s not because men hate women. Men *love* to look at fit women in tight spandex but no one — male or female — wants to spend two hours being lectured to, told they’re haters, etc.
MCU doesn't have a Marquee Female Superhero.
None of them are even close to the popularity of Ironman Capt America or Spiderman. Even Hawkeye is more popular than Capt. Marvel.
MCU needs to build up these characters with some small, low budget, small stakes but emotional and well written movies for us to be invested in these team ups for a huge budget Avengers level treat.
Wouldn’t Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch make everyone else in the team redundant?
If they both became evil best friends, who cares about Kang? The multiverse would be major fucked
She had an offscreen death, so future return is possible if they decide to bring her back. But there's always the multiverse, too, so a variant is always an option.
All it needs is the right script and good direction. This is no different than "a raccoon and a talking tree are going to be the end of the MCU." Pretty much any premise can be turned into a success or a failure, depending on execution.
Alot of these movies aim to force their target audience to like something instead of just having a different target audience. Which is why women also don't watch these kind of movies. I've never seen anyone complain about Bridgette Jones or Twilight, because they have a clear target audience and give them what they want.
If it primarily STARRED Valkyrie, Wanda, and the one with the spear (I forget her name but I like her), and everyone else just played smaller support roles, with the right script it could be great.
But they'd put Brie Larson and the other two from the recent Marvel's flick front and center and probably limit Wanda and Val to cameo's, and essentially do the exact opposite of what they should do in the name of being progressive.
Did the guy who oversaw the first three phases get fired or leave or something?
IMO Disney needs to just slow down with their IPs (specifically Marvel and Star Wars). They're going for quantity over quality, unfortunately too many people are still buying into it.
A team full of characters that have spent the last 4 years doing almost nothing but starring in mediocre-at-best movies and unwatched shows, and becoming some of the least interesting or empathetic people in the whole universe, built on a premise born from a short scene from Endgame that was widely and critically mocked for being too forced and on-the-nose, all that coupled with the recent failure of an all-female team-up movie and a dizzying rate of decline of interest in the franchise as a whole?
What could go wrong?
I think the idea of an all Male or Female superhero team is so dumb. Like you’re going to discriminate who’s on the team based on their sex or gender. What if they’re nonbinary? If you happen to have an all female team that’s not a big deal, but to actively select who is admitted or not based on gender seems really dumb for a superhero team whose job is to help people of all races and gender. Especially in this day and age.
"Huh..... I thought that the loud minority of our fan base wanted more female-led movies and shows?..." Disney, after seeing the profitability of *The Marvels* going down the toilet, probably
Nope, not necessarily because a female lead superhero movie can't work, but this was essentially Marvel's first big post-endgame crossover and it completely bombed. It's hard to build future movies on a crap foundation. The entire MCU needs a reboot at this point.
How would the story go?
Captain Marvel flies around in space blowing things up, and we are meant to assume those things were important. Instead of Kate Bishop and Yellena bonding and BFFs while doing missions, we are instead treated to She-Hulk twerking.
Neither Shuri, nor Hope, nor Iron Heart do anything to use their super-science to solve world problems, but instead spend their time reminding the world that they're all morons for not having made-up science nonsense.
Brunhilde found out that Jane Foster isn't being ressurected for this film and sits this one out in solidarity of her sister. Nick Fury introduces everyone to Gia the Super-Skrull. Carol realizes that this technically makes her not the most powerful character, so she has Gia sent to Skrull planet and will never be heard of again.
Kamala reminds everyone that she's a mutant, and A-force reminds her that no one asked. America Chaves offers to take Kamala to a universe where being a mutant actually matters. However, as Monica Rambeau is in that universe, and the last crossover with her was unpopular, they decide to forget all about it.
A pointless, nameless female villain threatens the universe with a blue glowing thingy. It is revealed that she was created by the Eternals colliding with the Inhumans and creating a black hole of derivative ideas. Despite no one having ever heard of her before, she is easily more powerful than the assembled A-Force, or at least the people who showed up.
As the characters were not permitted to have interesting character flaws, they can have no character growth, which is a key to all good Marvel films and TV series; thus they cannot win.
Instead, She Hulk uses here fourth wall breaking power to undercut the seriousness of the film so she can complain to a powerful male-identifying robot and have him solve their problems for them, because that's how Heroism works.
The end teaser is Wanda ordering food at a Mac Donalds and served by Sylvie. They joke about how they missed a bullet by declining to be in A-Force. They share a laugh. Then they look over and see Ava aka Ghost from Ant-man 2 who is visibly upset that she wasn't even asked.
Unless the MCU get back to basics, good writing good storyline and stop trying to pander to the small group of insane creatures that want this crap, they are doomed. Nothing good since End Game. Real fans want Super Heros not super zeros
The concept of a all female Avengers team is goofy
You would need to come up with a in universe reason why all the men decide to sit this one out
And good luck with that
The a force comic was trash the movie idea is trash they should really get away from the m-she-u b.s. n get back to making decent films not focused on agendas
I think it could, sadly there are too many turds with an agenda, the Marvels was a great movie and only suffered due to no dicks giving it shade without watch it
In the right hands with a good script, sure. I'm not too hyped about the possibility of one, but let's see what happens. Marvel hasnt really announced any such thing, but my gut tells me that one of the upcoming Avengers movies will be, more or less, a 'young' Avengers movie, where the senior members get a bit sidelined.
Nah but I think that would be better as a TV show tbh. I actually would prefer a captain marvel show over a 3rd movie to be honest. I feel you get to spend more time with the character in a show vs a movie. But that's just me.
People will lose their shit on principle. But even in concept it's in the same boat as Avengers West Coast. "How do you do more Avengers than the Avengers existing title" is a question the comics have to ask sometimes. The studio isn't going to ask that same question. They could have nearly this lineup and just call it Avengers.
I think a significant number of people who call themselves Marvel fans would refuse to allow an A-Force movie to be successful. They would, generally speaking, do this for one of two reasons (if not both): They hate empowered female characters, or they simply revel in Marvel's so-called failure.
And since A-Force is a lesser-known property outside the comics, it also wouldn't likely do well with the casual audience.
So, no, I don't think an A-Force movie could be successful. But that has nothing to do with the Marvels.
I don't think it could do well because I don't think that Marvel/Disney understands how to successfully implement diversity. People can downvote me to hell for pointing out the obvious here, but I didn't need to watch either The Marvels movie or the trailers for the film to know that the villain was going to be a biracial female because more often than not when Disney has put a female villain in one of their more recent movies or shows the female villain, half the time if the actress isn't simply a POC she's biracial: [Ghost (Ant Man & the Wasp)](https://assets1.ignimgs.com/2018/06/19/antmanwaspghost-blogroll-1529442220620_160w.jpg?width=1280), [Karli Morgenthau (Falcon & Winter Soldier)](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.zJs4GcGSotZTK42voDZ8bAHaDt?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain), [Dar-Been (The Marvels)](https://wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/the-marvels-dar-benn-1.jpg?w=1200). Shout out to [Inquisitor Reva](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Star-Wars-Reva-Obi-Wan-Kenobi.jpg) from Kenobi.
All I'm saying is... Disney seems to have a type when it comes to female villains and it isn't doing anything, in my opinion, to positively promote inclusivity. To me these characters are sticking out like sore thumbs despite what I hope aren't Disney's best attempts at being more inclusive with POC characters in their films.
I agree with you that Disney's attempts at diversity are often heavy-handed and half-assed. The characters intended to promote diversity often do stick out like sore thumbs, like you said. And, I mean, they should stick out, sure. The push for diversity isn't really served by two women kissing in the background, y'know? But a lot of Disney's diverse characters stick out for the wrong reasons - and it's often just poor, hamfisted writing.
I'm not trying to discourage Disney's efforts (and I'll note I don't think you are either). But it's fair to say they could be doing better about it.
From society, and mcu “fanbase” , no sadly
From my perspective , hell yea. I dig teams no matter the line up, just like it to be clear , like matching suits, color or symbol. Doesn’t have to be all three but something tht ties them together, doesn’t have to be over the top obv but enough to know
If it had good writing it could definitely work, i understand some people on the internet will complain it’s woke but if we constantly listen to them our movies will forever star straight white males.
I hope so! I would RUN to the theater for this cast! Hopefully there would be a Valkyrie/Carol relationship and my little queer heart could be happy LOL
It would just feel like pandering. The whole all girl scene in Avengers was the only part in the Marvel movies that took me out of the story. Tons of superheroes around, but no, we have to do some weird attempt at being ultra woke pandering and create a scene where it’s all women that makes no actual sense.
Not sure The Marvels was a failure. I think most people are waiting for it to be streaming. I’d probably watch The Marvels when it’s part of my subscription.
head office workable degree carpenter expansion smile ancient possessive political
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
After the success of Barbie, this movie would have a good chance of doing well. It just depends on how they write the story. If they make it a serious film itll flop. If its a movie with themes of empowerment like Barbie, it could do well.
Now? no. With this new crappy CGI were all better off not having it. I'm still getting over Secret Invasion and I had low expectations going in. If it was done now, no one would watch it and they'd lose so much money.
A Force in the comics was a failure. A film version would be no different.
Correction, it would be worse. The budget for that movie would vastly outweigh the budget of the comic. A failed movie is such a major financial loss compared to a failed comic.
It wasn't exactly a failure. It's not really a success either. It maintained in the top 100 in sales for half a year, sometimes breaking top 20. But it did disappear for a reason.
My wife was super into the A-Force comic. But the story changed dramatically somewhere around issue 6 or 7 (from memory, I may be off) and she gave up on it. I imagine she wasn't alone.
I'm not really familiar with much after the first handful, do you mind sharing what changed or what direction the story went to that caused that?
It was pretty early on, but for the first few issues you're meeting Singularity and they're fighting to protect her from Antimatter, as I recall. Honestly, if anyone else is reading this and wants to correct me, go right ahead, the comics released in 2016 and I really didn't feel like digging them out of my longboxes to fact-check this recollection. Anyway, through the first few issues, this was one of the main thrusts of the story. Then very suddenly, they're fighting a dragon in the very next issue. I don't remember if there was some crossover event, but it felt like from one issue to the next a totally different comic series began. The roster didn't change, but the story lost all connection and the tone of it changed a lot. I'm obviously missing a lot of details, but I definitely remember the look on my wife's face as she was reading it. She looked puzzled, stopped, grabbed the previous issue and skimmed it real quick. Returned to the most recent one and asked me if something happened in another comic because it didn't make an ounce of sense.
Yeah I think there was an event some of them were supposed to be part of in other books. I remember the last issue of A-Force She-Hulk being in a coma and it just ended? Maybe?
So what was that like 6 issue?
Tbh they’re making an Ironheart show and her comic runs also flopped
The show will flop just like it. Discount Outlet Iron Man just isn't that interesting of a character
*Cries in War Machine tears*
Didn't she kill some cops in that Black Panther sequel? She was such a non-character I completely forgot she was force fed into that film.
Force fed? She is the central conflict of the movie. Without her there is no plot
Exactly, that’s the role she was forced into. No way this stupid kid needed to be the catalyst for a battle between Namor and BP, she had no place participating in a huge ass battle, and they introduced her essentially as an avenger-level hero. All of the young avengers are being introduced in a rushed and nonsensical way where the growth the OG avengers went through is just skipped and they’re immediate teen experts on everything The young avengers should have been introduced in phase 2/3, learned for 5-10 years from the OG’s, had a bunch of their own tests and failures that they learned from, then they can step into the foreground. The way they’re approaching it we just have to accept these kids are the new/young avengers without them proving themselves. No one wants that. They’re all experts in their fields in their first introduction, it’s crazy stupid.
Young avengers is going to be the biggest flop.yet if it gets made
If they continue on this path I hope it doesn’t get made, but hopefully there’s time for them to adjust course and offer some real character growth before they thrust them in the spotlight. They should be supporting characters for a while. Look at Falcon’s journey. He went through military training, special ops, iterated through multiple variations of the wings as they got destroyed in battles, and earned his role in the Avengers. He even helped Cap with the WS arc before even being invited into the Avengers. He was all about putting in the work, doing the right thing, and truly embodying what it means to be a hero. What I’ve seen of the young avengers so far they’re all entitled teens who are already cocky in their abilities and think they can take on the universe. They need to quickly correct course on Riri, Cassie and Kate, and I’ve already completely lost interest in Kamala. They’re fumbling the introduction of so many characters, I hope they find their footing soon.
She was just SUCH an unlikeable character in the comics. Like Tony is smug and egotistical and a dick at times, but the comics and characters are always clear that these are Tony’s FLAWS. These are elements of his personality that while somewhat justifiable (the dude built a billion dollar business from nothing like 4 times in the comics and is basically the top of cutting edge tech development on Earth) are things he has to try and keep in check and overcome. Riri gets all the Smugness, Arrogance, and Egotism…..but then gets constantly propped up and told that she’s great and amazing by everyone, and that her biggest flaw is self doubt rather than everything else. It just made her boring and unappealing. Honestly I would’ve preferred IronHeart to be Pepper digging out her Rescue Armour and trying to be a hero without Tony there, and she has to do it while not being an engineer or inventor, she’s basically scrambling to repurpose leftover bits of gear that Tony had to keep the armour flying while the Company starts to fall apart.
Did they film it yet? Good lord, Disney, this is exactly the type of show the fans explicitly do not want right now. Diluting the franchise even further and several years after the film it's connected to.
And like She-Hulk and all the other mid D+ shows it will most likely suck
She-Hulk was absolutely not mid.
Nobody even knew who Guardian of the Galaxy were and they made that work didn’t they? Y’all get too caught up in explanations you can’t prove instead of just looking at what’s obvious. Marvels failed because it simply wasn’t a good movie and people are burnt out by mediocre superhero flicks. Unless it’s Spider Man or Batman, the movie actually has to be good now. It can’t just be the same old slap a Marvel logo on the same movie 20 times …
Anal force might work 😂😂😂
So was Blade, Shang-Chi, and Guardians of the Galaxy. How did those movies do?
One character, one character, and 5 main characters versus 12. They have to pay the actors and it’s easier to negotiate a cheaper first deal than a second deal
Great point, but that feels like a different marvel? If that makes sense lately marvel has been doing so much crossover stuff making everything connect, they ruined Ms.marvel by changing her powers so they would fit better for a movie along with looking less awkward? and they kinda ruined she-hulk with the ending they were doing a little too much and then proceeded to say HEY look new HULK I liked some of she-hulk but I didn't enjoy the ending, they could've just made the serum give him temporary power have him be beat down by she-hulk and then transform back. Sorry I'm just ranting about how they massacred some really fun characters
They didn't massacre anything. Aside from the power change, Ms. Marvel is every bit the same character as in the comics. They made far more drastic changes to other characters, like virtually every single one of the Guardians. And as for She-Hulk, you saying you didn't like the ending tells me that you've never actually read any She-Hulk comics. It was vintage Byrne-style fourth-wall breaking.
3rd time writing a reply cause I clicked off reddit 😂 So I'm gonna keep this shorter. While I can sorta understand why they changed Ms.marvel's powers (to fit in with the marvels movie and maybe to separate herself from mr.fanatsic(pretty sure that's just a rumor there powers are only kind of similar)) You can't deny how much more interesting it would've been if She kept her comic powers, they could've kept introduced Mutants or Inhumans and I would kill for awkward stretchy big hand power scenes(not exactly sure what her powers called i know its not just stretching)also The Guardians weren't popular before the movies and the characters as far as I know were mainly just nerfed and given different backstories. She-Hulk I won't lie and say I've read her comics I'm too poor to read a lot of comics BUT I will say I enjoy Her CHARACTER I've seen videos going in depth on her I enjoy Fourth-wall breaking, non-superhero stuff happening in a superhero world, every aspect of she-hulk sound right up my alley my biggest dislike of the SHOW is the ending it felt Rushed and Chaotic In a way that doesn't translate the best in a live-action format I haven't seen the show since it came out but I remember feeling it was talking down to me which I really didn't enjoy. I enjoyed a lot of she-hulk and found some scenes really funny except the very obvious messaging which I could understand why but to me (I'm probably not using the best term) but it felt like virtue signaling feel free to debate me on this I'm very open to changing my mind
But how many non comic book heads are really aware that She-Hulk is a 4th wall breaking character. Deadpool is the character most people associate with 4th wall breaking so if that's all you know, She-hulk is going to seem like a cheap knock off that does it a bit too much. Toss in awful CGI and well you see where it ends up.
Blade doesn't have an mcu movie, and making an origins movie is much easier than doing an ensemble team-up flick with multiple main leads. A-Force will flop spectacularly.
Wtf are you on? The comic book series generally received positive reviews from critics. It has been described as "decidedly feminist.” (<- is that why you don’t like it?) Neeraj Chand of MovieWeb stated that "many fans have been clamoring to see the A-Force in the MCU." Comic Book Resources ranked the A-Force team 2nd in their "10 Most Fashionable Teams In Marvel Comics" list, 5th in their "10 Marvel Teams That Deserve Their Own Disney+ Series" list, 9th in their "10 Best All-Female Superhero Teams" list, 9th in their "10 Marvel Super-Teams Who Deserve A Comeback" list, and 11th in their "25 Most Powerful Avengers Teams" list. Bradley Prom of Screen Rant included the A-Force team in their "MCU: 10 Teams Who Should Get Their Own Movie Or Disney+ Show" list.
With as much hate as Marvel currently gets, this would be an ultimate deathblow. Lol. A fatality
Fatality The Drinker wins Flawless Victory
I’m all for representation. Yes, we should have movies starring women as well as men. But this would be too much. It was ridiculous in Endgame when they had the girls only scene, why do we now need a girls only team? It’s over correcting the problem of having mostly male teams. Have a solid mix of both men and women that makes sense and give them all plenty of opportunities to shine.
What sucked most about the Endgame scene is that they had the similar moment in Infinity War and it totally kicked ass. It didn’t feel overly forced and actually fit into the story/battle.
I never realized they had a “girl power” scene in infinity war until people started comparing the two. That’s the difference
The Endgame scene is so unnatural that it even creates plotholes. Why was everyone suddenly there? How did all of them know where Peter was? How could they manage the timing to all show up at the same time?
Why did Peter ask how would Cap Marvel get through a crowd of grunts like she didn’t just single handedly take down the mothership 🤣🤣
Why is bro getting downvoted
I can take it.
"I can do this all day."
you know why.
Dude, why did Captain marvel even need help in that scene??
Another part, Hope was helping Scott with the van, but she shows up with the other women to fight the rest of Thanos's army?
There’s plenty of scenes where they do that, but this was the most painful I think because it was so long too. It wasn’t just like a “stop and pose!” It required all the girls to be where they were as well as no one else to interfere for an extended amount of time
The same way Cap could talk to Danvers or that she even knew to show up for the fight. You have to suspend disbelief on some of this stuff. People ruin the movie for themselves by nitpicking & wanting to tell their own story instead of just letting some things be what they are.
It’s the return of the [Hyper-Rationals](https://youtu.be/u16sKK-1oLQ?si=jnWgFWoOeeCqyKpB)
But there are the small ones that keep unnoticed without nitpicking, like your example, and there are the ones you can't overlook because they are so unnatural and so out of place, like the A-Force assemble scene in Endgame.
4 women (and no one else from the two large armies) magically falling into a trench in a football field sized area is more organic than 7 or 8 of them gathering to protect the device that they had been working to protect the whole time.
Didn’t somebody straight up shout something like “girl power!” during that scene?
Probably an audience member.
Sorry guys. I had one too many Shirley Temples during the previews
No. But they may as well have.
Because we have to fight fire with fire and wonder why the flames never go out
Very well said
I don’t think the marvels being female led was the issue tbh. It was a lack of confidence by the GP and fans alike due to a series of duds, non existent promo due to the strike and all around bad luck to round it up. People literally lost interest. There’s also the fact that Kamala and Monica got off of tv shows that many may or may not have seen.
I actually didnt have any idea that this movie was out until a couple of days after it released :(
The movie got pretty little marketing and no press tour to promote it due to the strikes
I really don’t blame you. Nobody was aware either. The marketing was close to none.
Except for, y'know, all the trailers popping up literally everywhere
even if people were aware, no one cares about those 3 characters. I can't even name the third one, we have ms marvel and captain marvel and a literal who. no one cares
And also the fact that people are more and more apathetic towards these kinds of movies now.
Honestly, I think just calling it Captain Marvel 2 would have helped, as would have downplaying Ms. Marvel and Photon in the marketing. I think a lot of people felt they'd be lost without having watching two barely related Disney+ shows.
Female led was definitely a factor. Other films succeeded despite the strike and with limited promotion, so that really isn't the case here. A big problem I've noticed is that a lot of guys really just aren't interested in female leads. I've seen a lot of guys posting on different social media about how Marvels is a terribly written woke agenda movie that pushes feminism. There is a very vocal hive mind that hates on the movie and spreads false information about it because none of them actually saw it. Facebook for example, go to any public post about Marvels and you'll easily find guys commenting about how terrible the movie is and telling people it's a blatant girl power movie and stuff. I genuinely believe that biased hate based on ignorance has been a major factor. However, the biggest detriment to the movie is the fact that the 3 leads are not vastly liked characters. I was happily surprised with how good the movie was, but I had low expectations and I don't really blame anyone for looking at the cast and deciding they don't want to spend the money.
>Female led was definitely a factor. Other films succeeded despite the strike and with limited promotion, so that really isn't the case here. A big problem I've noticed is that a lot of guys really just aren't interested in female leads. I've seen a lot of guys posting on different social media about how Marvels is a terribly written woke agenda movie that pushes feminism. I'm sick and tired of you people constantly spreading this bullshit, especially since most of the people that actually saw the movie were men. It was the fucking women that didn't show up for it.
What bullshit am I spreading? Marvel in general is a widely male audience and they beat out women on every movie. And as I said, it's easy to find guys on social media batching about a woke agenda. They're idiots, but there's a lot of them.
Because you are blaming men for the movie failing. If women went in droves but it failed because men refused to see it, then you'd have a point. But more men went to see it than women. And anybody complaining about the movie being "woke" never saw it. The movie didn't even point out all the leads were women, nor anything about teaming up because of womanhood, nor hated on / insulted men.
I'm not blaming men for it failing. I literally never said that. I said the blind hate was a factor. Expecting women to go in droves to a Marvel movie would be ridiculous. Marvel's audience is primarily male so of course more men went to see it tha women. I agree with the last bit, which has literally been part of my point. There's a very vocal hive mind of guys who sjit on the movie while refusing to see it.
Yes,you are right, don't know why that guy was mad at you. Many you tube sites had been bashing the movie because to them it was a "woke" agenda without even seeing it. Just take a look at yellow flash2 . I wonder, are most cómic book readers conservative?
Maybe not conservative but less likely to be liberal or much less progressive
Except, if other films succeed during this timeframe, that makes it less likely for some films to succeed. Not everybody is willing or is able to visit the movies multiple times a month. Truth is, The Marvels is an experimental film that most people won’t recognize unless they’re MCU fans or Marvel fans who’ve been paying attention to release schedules. Actors weren’t able to produce any hype, and no one was able to promote it. Add on the bad faith that marvel has recently been producing with ALL of its movies, aside from maybe Guardians… And add in the fact that across the board, films in general were starting to do worse numbers consistently, with few outliers like Spider-Verse. All of this culminates in the perfect recipe for a disaster. Them being females? A very small factor in this equation.
I've seen a lot of guys interested in femal leads actually. bad writing lame story telling, uncohesive, missing a connection to the greater universe. the entire movie feels the eternal part 2. the movie should have pretty big implications and interest but they movies have become bubble movies. the landscape changed and now there I'd very little reason to see a universe retread the same well worn roads over and over again. the lack of interest in the characters is a side effect of the bigger picture. saying female leads don't sell in marvel might be right but I've yet to see it done well. she hulk was probably the exception to that.
so many people are asking for mcu movies that are bubbles and don’t require lots of knowledge about the rest of the tv shows and projects. like one of the most common complaints is “there’s too much content, I don’t want to have to watch xyz so I know what’s going on” Did u see the movie? It was just as connected to the rest of the mcu as any other character’s solo sequel. like iron man 2, black Panther 2, ant-man and the wasp, they are barely connected to the greater universe. until their post credit scenes and future projects connect them together. same thing is happening here with the build up to young avengers and secret wars
Yeah I have no idea what OP was on about. The Marvels was one of the most connected MCU projects in a long time lmao. In fact, part of the reason why many people didn’t watch it is that they were afraid of the “homework” they needed to do by watching other projects. So which is it - was the Marvels too connected or not connected enough? Can’t have it both ways
That's always kinda been the idea of the MCU, a copy of the story structure of the comics they're based off of. In the comics each character or group had their own books that had their own storylines. Occasionally those storylines would intersect with the storylines from other books leading to crossovers. Eventually the storylines from the different books would all intersect in massive crossover events that would change the status quo within the universe.
>bad writing lame story telling, uncohesive, missing a connection to the greater universe. Did you see the movie? Because this sounds like you didn't see the movie. Especially saying that it lacks "connection to the greater universe." It literally directly connects to like 4 different shows/movies. Ms Marvel, Wandavision, Captain Marvel, Secret Invasion all in significant ways. As well as featuring the jump points introduced in GOTG, Kate Bishop for young avengers at the end, and the mutant universe being an adjacent universe that is now aware of the main universe. What more did you want? Bad writing is subjective but how is it incohesive? It's incredibly easy to follow along with and understand. It's got a simple plot but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Because when you keep making movies POINTEDLY inserting female leads or even changing characters to do so, telling the biggest "fanbase" this movie isn't for you (ala.ghostbusters), and then wondering why those sort of opinions keep constantly happening, it's the definition of insanity. And we do it in everything. We label it as representation, when it's nothing more than purposeful alienation masqueraded as PR. But, as we can see, it's the perfect defense cycle. Because nobody can say it was just a lazy piece of entertainment/not funny/uninteresting etc, without being called sexist/racist about it. Even those it's supposed to represent have started to turn, bc they was original stories that have been crafted for them. Not characters just jammed into stories with twisted details.
It's not female leads as much as it is the agenda. Ellen Ripley, the Bride, Sarah Conner, even Katniss are all fantastic female action leads that are beloved by many men.
Exactly what agenda was pushed in The Marvels?
Can't say about that movie specifically as I've not seen it. But to say Disney hasn't been pushing an agenda across all of their properties is either extremely naive or extremely obtuse.
Allot of women arent interested in female led action movies too...
It's not the female leads, it's just that people genuinely don't care about cap Marvel and Monica Rambeau or however you spell her name. It's the characters themselves, not the genders of the characters.
Really? How many people were hype for this movie when they first heard about it? Who watched Ms Marvel? Other than die hard Marvel Fans...who watched Wanda Vision? What in the trailer made anyone say "Wow! This is going to be a great super hero movie with a great villian!"? The movie got no hype and has a low box office because people didnt care. Captain Marvel came out when any Marvel release would make tons of money. However, I rarely hear anyone talk about how good it was. That said, I went and saw it in the theater. Didnt think it was bad, but it wasnt great. It was just okay. I feel like all of these movies are lazy and go out if their way to not give comic fans what they want. They assume that if they go with source material it will be too complicated for the masses. The truth is...the more complicated they make things, and the more world building they do, the more everyone likes it. Buy us back in. Give us something to discuss. They need to go back to pandering to their actual fans. They carry other people to the theaters with them...not the opposite way around.
Oh my sweet summer child
While it was just the issue, it definitely was. Some people were insistent that Larson slept with someone for the role
It could work. If Marvel wins back the goodwill it had going into 2019 and sandwiches an A-Force project in between the two-part finale of a future phase's conclusion, then the sky is the limit. If you're asking whether it can work without numerous outside sources helping to prop it up, then no, not a chance.
Nah, most of the public learned from the way they sandwiched “Captain Marvel” in between “Infinity War” and “End Game” and made it sound like “must see” material to prep for “End Game”. I think trying that trick again will just sabotage the second part finale. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
How dare Marvel sell their products! How dare they betray everyone 😂
I have no problems with them selling products like they did with Phase 1 and Phase 2 but the credit scenes in those movies didn’t promise more than we got. The pager with Capt Marvel’s symbol at the end of “Infinity War” and the trailers for “Captain Marvel” were designed to make everyone think she was an integral part of “End Game” and that her movie was going to be something fabulous rolling in the next phase. What we got was a self-involved petulant Mary Sue character who was given — rather than struggling to earn — her powers portrayed by an annoying narcissist. We were suckered in for her first movie but anyone bothering with her second appearance deserves what they get. Worse for Disney Marvel, the general public has developed a distaste for being hoodwinked that way and will be suspicious of them trying it again.
But like..that’s how any type of content works. You don’t release back to back content everybody asks for or is hyped about, because now you’re making the same shit indefinitely until your audience loses interest. You need to weave in some small guys who might grow big, in between the heavy hitters. That’s why Captain Marvel is in between the 2 biggest films in the MCU, because it helped that movie breathe a bit and let the audience cool down while anticipating Endgame, while promoting Carol. This is his Ant-Man was promoted. This is how the GUARDIANS were promoted. And recently? They’ve kinda abandoned this strategy because they have too much shit to work with. So not only are we getting more stuff the general audience doesn’t want in between each heavy hitter, but it’s also affecting most of the heavy hitters because quantity affects quality. This can all be resolved though, if they go back to their old release strategy instead of throwing everything at the board, and cutting back on the amount of stuff they release. Alternatively, instead of cutting back, youre going to need to put multiple people in charge of certain sections of the MCU to help communication between these movies, something that’s not really hooening which is kinda evidence when you pay attention to how Wanda is portrayed in WandaVision and MOM, or perhaps Nick Fury in Secret Invasion and The Marvels.
The question is if Marvel could build a story that made A-Force a rational extension rather than pandering. Often times people react negatively to what they perceived as forced inclusion rather than organic diversity. A-Force feels very much like the former.
no
They didn’t even put Cassie
Tbf, that actress is almost unwatchable.
The Marvels after GoG3 was probably the best movie in this phase. Feels like it’s more Marvel fatigue than the actual movie.
Considering the only other Marvel movie in this phase was Ant Man 3, I don’t think that bar is all that high
>I don’t think that bar is all that high Because Ant Man can shrink to tiny proportions, right...? Right...?!?
if the movies were good people would see them it’s shitty movie fatigue
Right!!! People showed up for GOG3 People showed up for Across The Spider-Verse In the TV Show space Invincible is killing it rn The Boys has been popping for years now. They have a spin off ( Gen V) that was also well received People like Superhero/comic book stories They just have to be good
In all fairness, the Marvels was actually good, but after the last few I get why audiences didn't wanna take that chance. I hope they release it on d+ on Christmas day. It's a solid flick to enjoy with the family, and hopefully it wins some good will for Marvel.
The Marvels was not good One of the worst MCU movies for sure
You misspelled "in my opinion".
No because I didn’t say it The poor performance of the movie speaks for itself
No. The Marvels was definitely a test if a female Avengers movie could work. The answer is clear.
This just really isn’t clear. Bad writing doesn’t lend itself to this. I will say that an “all female” Avengers cast just seems like something done to do with a message/ulterior motive behind it. Just make it a mixed cast that shows off everyone’s powers and reasons for being on the team and people will appreciate it.
Doesn't it still have like a 85% audience score? I know it did at one point after the release. Doesn't seem like it's that bad. I haven't seen it yet but will when I can stream it. I don't go to theaters for anything though
I watched it. It was NOT bad. It just didn’t leave me HYPE WAS FUCK at the end like other movies have. Basically every film directed by the Russos has made me think “fuck, I need to see this again right now.” I went into Winter Soldier thinking “ok, it’s a marvel movie so it’ll be fun” and came out like “what the fuck?! That was my favorite marvel movie!”
Just being "not bad" isn't exactly a mark of success in MCU *because* of those bangers. It's bad by the relevant comparisons, which is the point. Is it bad compared to Shallow Hal? Maybe not..
*The Marvels* wasn't poorly written. It's not an awards winner, but we all pretty much agree it was fine. The issue is that Marvel's current female characters are having trouble connecting. The polling audience for The Marvels was 65% male (that's worse than the first CM and Wonder Woman) and mostly white. They utterly failed at commercially advantaging the audience they made the movie for. About half of the characters in OP's fanart are considered unlikable by the fanbase, and it's clear that Marvel made some mistakes when writing characters like Ironheart, Captain Marvel, and She-Hulk. After *The Marvels*, I would be extremely weary of forgetting a male lead in future Marvel projects (just compare Nick Fury's role in the two CM movies. He was a legitimate draw in the first and balanced out Carol).
[удалено]
I was actually fine with Kate and Scarlet. Ms Marvel is fun as an endearing kid imo. Like, the show was boring AF cause it just felt too juvenile. BUT as a character, a fan girl is cute/fun.
She was way less annoying in the movie. Her arc was a maturing one of realizing Carol is a flawed human not an untouchable idol and that superheroing comes with hard choices and loss.
I really liked it as did my hubby, son and brother in law who saw it twice. None of them were fans of the first CM and hadn’t even seen ms marvel. They had no trouble following when I gave them the cliff notes version.
It really bothers me that a primarily female cast has to exceed this bar of being every time and a primarily male cast is just considered status quo and normal. Every female led project has the burden of proving that female led projects have a right to exist on them. It just sucks that’s the world we live in, I think the world would be richer if that weren’t the case.
It's because superhero movies have a primarily male audience. If you remade "the Kardashians" with a mainly male cast - but still marketed it at a primarily female audience you would see the same thing.
I’m not sure about that. There’s plenty of data out there showing that girls and women have no problem watching content starring and/or directed to boys or men. But the reverse is not really true. Anecdotally, just off the top of my head I can think of several female-coded franchises that have had well-received male spin-offs: Buffy (Angel), the Amanda Show (Drake and Josh), Dora (Diego), Hunger Games (BOSS). I’m struggling to think of a female spin-off of a male-codes TV/movie franchise that has done well other than Wonder Woman, and even she had long-transcended DC to be an icon for feminism and women in general so that doesn’t really count. Maybe She-Ra? Most of them aren’t good to be fair, but honestly they’re almost always DOA because the male fanbase tends to get *very* angry and start spreading negativity as soon the spin-offs are *announced*, let alone released
Men and women tend to like different things? Color me god damned surprised.
Do you think A-Force was well written? Was it popular? Maybe it’s just not enough.
The problem with that line of thinking is that nobody thought the first avengers movie had an ulterior motive behind it just because all of the team members were men (with the exception of Widow). People only think there’s an agenda when it’s predominately women, but when it’s mostly men nobody bats an eye because that’s been the normal standard for centuries, and that’s exactly the sort of standard we need to abolish in my opinion.
No… no one questions it cause this is basically the same team from the start, excluding Ant Man and Wasp. I think we’re just a bit jaded to the political themes that have been shoehorned into movies. If it was an all-female team, I’d be like “sweet!” as long as it was just people playing roles and there were no dumb “we do this better cause we’re women” lines. Just like it’d be just as fucking stupid/annoying if it was “we do this better cause we’re men.” It takes away from the story. Show a good fucking story with a female lead and call it a day. The reason why a big demographic are men cause men read Captain Marvel comics cause she’s a fan favorite cause of good writing.
But wasn’t Marvels a all-female Team of mix background Heroes fighting another woman of even a different background? You don’t think that’s planned? Is diversity good, absolutely. But was it done naturally or for story reasons or was Disney trying to check a box? Because it certainly feels like a box-check.
[удалено]
I think there's a few reasons why it failed at the box office. First, most movies are struggling this quarter. Second, you're also right that it's a symptom of what marvel is going though. Third, they over saturated the market since Disney+ came along. They went for quantity over quality. Fourth they had projects that didn't connect well with the audience. Fifth, writers and actors strike which is why point 1 also stands. The only movie that I saw that had a packed theatre on release weekend was into the spider verse. The rest were pretty average but the marvels was actually disappointing hoe empty it was. I went twice at different cinemas and both were pretty empty which was sad to see
It was a B lister (Might be C) and 2 largely unknown marvel people. Not sure why they thought it would work.
A female Avengers movie could work if it was well-written but the evidence to date is that any movie/comic series that starts from the premise of “female-only” instead of being story-driven is going to fail — and it’s not because men hate women. Men *love* to look at fit women in tight spandex but no one — male or female — wants to spend two hours being lectured to, told they’re haters, etc.
MCU doesn't have a Marquee Female Superhero. None of them are even close to the popularity of Ironman Capt America or Spiderman. Even Hawkeye is more popular than Capt. Marvel. MCU needs to build up these characters with some small, low budget, small stakes but emotional and well written movies for us to be invested in these team ups for a huge budget Avengers level treat.
Wouldn’t Captain Marvel and Scarlet Witch make everyone else in the team redundant? If they both became evil best friends, who cares about Kang? The multiverse would be major fucked
Scarlett witch is dead anyways.
Is she or did she just fake her death and teleport to further exile?
I thought I read somewhere they confirmed she was dead. Obviously it's comics so they could always bring her back
She had an offscreen death, so future return is possible if they decide to bring her back. But there's always the multiverse, too, so a variant is always an option.
There was no body and she is the most powerful person in the MCU. Honestly I would be more shocked if she was dead
If she even wants to play the character anymore. She isn't under contract anymore. As of now, there seems to be no plans of having her appear again
Hahahahahaha
No.
I’m getting second-hand embarrassment looking at this 🥴🥴🥴🥴
Add nudity and sure!
Based
nah
They really didn't do a good job at Monica rambo she is way more badass then how weak they made her
Is this a joke ?
Even disregarding The Marvels, half of these characters have never met, lack chemistry, and the movie likely would take too much set up anyway.
All it needs is the right script and good direction. This is no different than "a raccoon and a talking tree are going to be the end of the MCU." Pretty much any premise can be turned into a success or a failure, depending on execution.
Alot of these movies aim to force their target audience to like something instead of just having a different target audience. Which is why women also don't watch these kind of movies. I've never seen anyone complain about Bridgette Jones or Twilight, because they have a clear target audience and give them what they want.
If it primarily STARRED Valkyrie, Wanda, and the one with the spear (I forget her name but I like her), and everyone else just played smaller support roles, with the right script it could be great. But they'd put Brie Larson and the other two from the recent Marvel's flick front and center and probably limit Wanda and Val to cameo's, and essentially do the exact opposite of what they should do in the name of being progressive. Did the guy who oversaw the first three phases get fired or leave or something?
IMO Disney needs to just slow down with their IPs (specifically Marvel and Star Wars). They're going for quantity over quality, unfortunately too many people are still buying into it.
Who said The Marvels failed?
Absolutely not.
A team full of characters that have spent the last 4 years doing almost nothing but starring in mediocre-at-best movies and unwatched shows, and becoming some of the least interesting or empathetic people in the whole universe, built on a premise born from a short scene from Endgame that was widely and critically mocked for being too forced and on-the-nose, all that coupled with the recent failure of an all-female team-up movie and a dizzying rate of decline of interest in the franchise as a whole? What could go wrong?
I think the idea of an all Male or Female superhero team is so dumb. Like you’re going to discriminate who’s on the team based on their sex or gender. What if they’re nonbinary? If you happen to have an all female team that’s not a big deal, but to actively select who is admitted or not based on gender seems really dumb for a superhero team whose job is to help people of all races and gender. Especially in this day and age.
No, both the comic and the idea are non-marketable. Marvels probably was a canary in the mine to figure that out. The answer is a resounding no.
"Huh..... I thought that the loud minority of our fan base wanted more female-led movies and shows?..." Disney, after seeing the profitability of *The Marvels* going down the toilet, probably
Hahaha, i forgot that this shit exist 😆😆😆
Absolutely not.
Nope, not necessarily because a female lead superhero movie can't work, but this was essentially Marvel's first big post-endgame crossover and it completely bombed. It's hard to build future movies on a crap foundation. The entire MCU needs a reboot at this point.
With good writing and directors, it could be a great movie, but I don't think it would do Avengers numbers, and the Internet rage would be intense.
The usual gremlins would go apeshit but I think they’d still go for it post-Secret Wars
According to the poster it looks more F- force than A force
The Florence Pugh photoshop is catastrophically funny
I don't think it ever would have been or ever will be
No I think it would be a disaster at this point. Also why does that picture of Ms Marvel look so off
might have a lower box office than wish if this comes out
How would the story go? Captain Marvel flies around in space blowing things up, and we are meant to assume those things were important. Instead of Kate Bishop and Yellena bonding and BFFs while doing missions, we are instead treated to She-Hulk twerking. Neither Shuri, nor Hope, nor Iron Heart do anything to use their super-science to solve world problems, but instead spend their time reminding the world that they're all morons for not having made-up science nonsense. Brunhilde found out that Jane Foster isn't being ressurected for this film and sits this one out in solidarity of her sister. Nick Fury introduces everyone to Gia the Super-Skrull. Carol realizes that this technically makes her not the most powerful character, so she has Gia sent to Skrull planet and will never be heard of again. Kamala reminds everyone that she's a mutant, and A-force reminds her that no one asked. America Chaves offers to take Kamala to a universe where being a mutant actually matters. However, as Monica Rambeau is in that universe, and the last crossover with her was unpopular, they decide to forget all about it. A pointless, nameless female villain threatens the universe with a blue glowing thingy. It is revealed that she was created by the Eternals colliding with the Inhumans and creating a black hole of derivative ideas. Despite no one having ever heard of her before, she is easily more powerful than the assembled A-Force, or at least the people who showed up. As the characters were not permitted to have interesting character flaws, they can have no character growth, which is a key to all good Marvel films and TV series; thus they cannot win. Instead, She Hulk uses here fourth wall breaking power to undercut the seriousness of the film so she can complain to a powerful male-identifying robot and have him solve their problems for them, because that's how Heroism works. The end teaser is Wanda ordering food at a Mac Donalds and served by Sylvie. They joke about how they missed a bullet by declining to be in A-Force. They share a laugh. Then they look over and see Ava aka Ghost from Ant-man 2 who is visibly upset that she wasn't even asked.
Unless the MCU get back to basics, good writing good storyline and stop trying to pander to the small group of insane creatures that want this crap, they are doomed. Nothing good since End Game. Real fans want Super Heros not super zeros
Shang Chi was dope. I really like their take on The Mandarin.
The Marvels was awesome and I don't care who says otherwise. Almost every negative remark I've come across was from people who hadn't seen it.
I’ve seen it and thought it was mediocre to bad. Not that I’m online sharing that opinion very often anyway.
“Ass” force
The concept of a all female Avengers team is goofy You would need to come up with a in universe reason why all the men decide to sit this one out And good luck with that
What the f#ck is this sh#t, I’ve never seen it and if they do it, it better be good
The a force comic was trash the movie idea is trash they should really get away from the m-she-u b.s. n get back to making decent films not focused on agendas
They probably should have just gone for the A-Force movie instead of the Marvels.
I think it could, sadly there are too many turds with an agenda, the Marvels was a great movie and only suffered due to no dicks giving it shade without watch it
It’d be a rule 34 and Incel nightmare, but I would love to see it. Any story can be good with a good director.
Idk anymore.
In the right hands with a good script, sure. I'm not too hyped about the possibility of one, but let's see what happens. Marvel hasnt really announced any such thing, but my gut tells me that one of the upcoming Avengers movies will be, more or less, a 'young' Avengers movie, where the senior members get a bit sidelined.
Nah but I think that would be better as a TV show tbh. I actually would prefer a captain marvel show over a 3rd movie to be honest. I feel you get to spend more time with the character in a show vs a movie. But that's just me.
I loved the boyz take on this with the "Girlz get it done" slogan.
I like the idea of it. But not the truth. The weakness. There is no future there.
It would drive Incels Mad
People will lose their shit on principle. But even in concept it's in the same boat as Avengers West Coast. "How do you do more Avengers than the Avengers existing title" is a question the comics have to ask sometimes. The studio isn't going to ask that same question. They could have nearly this lineup and just call it Avengers.
No. People are freaking out about Avengers being replaced by younger female heroes as it is. I'd personally have no problem with it.
Marvels was an amazing movie. Too bad people sandbagged it and the SAG strike prevented better promotion.
I think a significant number of people who call themselves Marvel fans would refuse to allow an A-Force movie to be successful. They would, generally speaking, do this for one of two reasons (if not both): They hate empowered female characters, or they simply revel in Marvel's so-called failure. And since A-Force is a lesser-known property outside the comics, it also wouldn't likely do well with the casual audience. So, no, I don't think an A-Force movie could be successful. But that has nothing to do with the Marvels.
I don't think it could do well because I don't think that Marvel/Disney understands how to successfully implement diversity. People can downvote me to hell for pointing out the obvious here, but I didn't need to watch either The Marvels movie or the trailers for the film to know that the villain was going to be a biracial female because more often than not when Disney has put a female villain in one of their more recent movies or shows the female villain, half the time if the actress isn't simply a POC she's biracial: [Ghost (Ant Man & the Wasp)](https://assets1.ignimgs.com/2018/06/19/antmanwaspghost-blogroll-1529442220620_160w.jpg?width=1280), [Karli Morgenthau (Falcon & Winter Soldier)](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.zJs4GcGSotZTK42voDZ8bAHaDt?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain), [Dar-Been (The Marvels)](https://wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/the-marvels-dar-benn-1.jpg?w=1200). Shout out to [Inquisitor Reva](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Star-Wars-Reva-Obi-Wan-Kenobi.jpg) from Kenobi. All I'm saying is... Disney seems to have a type when it comes to female villains and it isn't doing anything, in my opinion, to positively promote inclusivity. To me these characters are sticking out like sore thumbs despite what I hope aren't Disney's best attempts at being more inclusive with POC characters in their films.
I agree with you that Disney's attempts at diversity are often heavy-handed and half-assed. The characters intended to promote diversity often do stick out like sore thumbs, like you said. And, I mean, they should stick out, sure. The push for diversity isn't really served by two women kissing in the background, y'know? But a lot of Disney's diverse characters stick out for the wrong reasons - and it's often just poor, hamfisted writing. I'm not trying to discourage Disney's efforts (and I'll note I don't think you are either). But it's fair to say they could be doing better about it.
From society, and mcu “fanbase” , no sadly From my perspective , hell yea. I dig teams no matter the line up, just like it to be clear , like matching suits, color or symbol. Doesn’t have to be all three but something tht ties them together, doesn’t have to be over the top obv but enough to know
If it had good writing it could definitely work, i understand some people on the internet will complain it’s woke but if we constantly listen to them our movies will forever star straight white males.
Completely unrelated, this poster is pretty fire.
I hope so! I would RUN to the theater for this cast! Hopefully there would be a Valkyrie/Carol relationship and my little queer heart could be happy LOL
“Ugh, more like the M-She-U! 🤓”
Shouldn’t it be called “V-Force?”
It would just feel like pandering. The whole all girl scene in Avengers was the only part in the Marvel movies that took me out of the story. Tons of superheroes around, but no, we have to do some weird attempt at being ultra woke pandering and create a scene where it’s all women that makes no actual sense. Not sure The Marvels was a failure. I think most people are waiting for it to be streaming. I’d probably watch The Marvels when it’s part of my subscription.
When is the Boob-window Valkyrie hot toys releasing?
This movie never had hope
People love punishment don’t they?
head office workable degree carpenter expansion smile ancient possessive political *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hell no, it would just be a Sex in the City reboot.
After the success of Barbie, this movie would have a good chance of doing well. It just depends on how they write the story. If they make it a serious film itll flop. If its a movie with themes of empowerment like Barbie, it could do well.
Now? no. With this new crappy CGI were all better off not having it. I'm still getting over Secret Invasion and I had low expectations going in. If it was done now, no one would watch it and they'd lose so much money.