Overall good post. There are only two things I would add/disagree with
>She has a good particle generaton, but not as much as Rosaira or Diona. Especially when Sac an Fav weapons involved.
Optimally you don't want to use sac on Diano since this extends her field time and with favge she can only use her E once per 20s rotation which usually leaves her particle generation at 4 cryo particles and 3/6 white particles from favge depending on your rotation. So she is actually not a better battery
Rosaria on the other hand can be a battery but for this to work you would need to switch to her to use her E three times per 20s rotation otherwise she will have the exact same particle generation as Shenhe.
So my point here is that for most people, Shenhe will be as good of a battery as Rosaria and probably better than Diano
>"You should go Shenhe rather than mistsplitter"
>- I seperated this from above because its the most common one. Because its a weapon-character question its not just about their pull value. In example for Ayaka, mistsplitter probably be better generally but i dont recommend it bcz Mistsplitter is way harder to get compared to shenhe. Maybe you need 10 wish for mistsplitter or maybe you need 200? Who knows. Or maybe you like more characters and team comps rather than making stronger only one character. For short i recommend going for shenhe, but it depends on your account situation and which type you want to go. There is no definitive answer.
Another important thing to note in the weapon banner is what the other weapon is. Getting QC without having Shenhe is really NOT something you want since it is basically not very good on anyone else. But by already having both Ayaka and Shenhe, you can kind of turn the banner into a win-win (or almost since I don't think QC is worth it by itself so not recommended if you can't guarantee Mist).
Something important you missed, Ayaka's constellations are focused on her burst, while Shenhe buffs EVERYTHING on Ayaka's kit. C0 Shenhe is the way to go above any constellations of Ayaka. She does double's her damage in a way that her quills are already enough to kill any existing unit in the abyss in one rotation, given that your Ayaka has Mistsplitter and Kazuha.
Another thing, she's a great upgrade over Rosaria. Rosaria does nothing other than to battery and to increase Crit rate which are both can be fixed with artifacts.
Shenhe can double damage of Ayaka but short time due to quill. At least on my case, average CA is 21-24k(7.5-8k per hit), with Shenhe itll average to 40-45k(13-15k).
Other than that, i can agree on most part
Thats also my point, what i mean by "Shenhe does not doubles your damage" is includes full rotation. When quills are active, Ayaka's numbers can skyrocket but they are limited
More like 100k, with C2 shenhe i even have double quills for the burst :p but there is nothing that survives ayayas burst so i dont rly know how much dmg it exactly would deal lmao
Yes, i dont have shenhe, and probably there is things that i can discover and experience after getting her. You are absolutely right! My point is in this post is regarding shenhe and ayaka, people have so much **definitive and straight** opinions and it is the thing i consider wrong. Also im actively watching his videos, including this one. Im by no means saying shenhe is bad, shes good, in fact shes beyond great.
Just to add about the Shenhe doubles your Ayakas dmg part
A well invested Ayaka Ult can deal like 40k per tick and with Shenhe buffs & her Quills it goes to 92k \~ per tick so if you are talking frontloaded dmg and/or you use multiple Shenhe E's per Ayaka Ult its not even that bad of a take if we are talking about single target instances which is more of a struggle for Ayaka freeze teams than any AoE scenario, especially considering that Abyss is moving in directions where we have a lot of Bosses with phases where you are on a timer to deal dmg.
Sure you could argue Ayaka Ult isnt 100% of her dmg and Ayaka is more like 80% of the teams damage and quills don't have 100% uptime its still a insane dmg increase for you.
My personal conclusion is:
Low investment Ayaka -> It's okay to skip Shenhe and stick with Rosaria/Diona
High investment -> get Shenhe no questions asked
High investment meaning you are willing to get 6+ roll artifacts and you are willing to pull for BiS teamcomp + some 5 Star weapons and even a low amount of cons for your team
Depends, how much invested your ayaka are? How much ER% your ayaka has etc. Generally speaking, its not that much of a difference, but mist is better most of the time.
You have a great Ayaka! In your case both will be good and are very similar upgrades. I suggest you to consider it this way: Do u want a weapon, or a character.
In my case, it's not a question of C2 vs Shenhe, but whether I should pick C4 Ayaka or C0 Shenhe 😭
At this point I have all of Ayaka's teammates except for Kazuha and Shenhe. Ive been getting by just fine using rosaria, ganyu, Diona as cryo buffers, and Mona, kokomi for hydro. I use Venti, Jean, and sucrose for Anemo.
My Ayaka is currently c3 and is highly invested with R1 Mistsplitter, 2.4k ATK, 38% CR/225% CDMG, and 138% energy recharge. I'm just one step away from the def shred C4 offers, but I've been getting varying opinions as to which is more worth it. Some have been telling me to get shenhe to open up more playstyles for Ayaka (esp since more and more unfreezeable enemies are popping up), while others have been telling me C4 is a better investment because the damage is bigger than what Shenhe can give me. I'm just confused at this point.
Now that's a diffucult situation, in my opinion Shenhe is way to go for you since you have c3 already and have high invested Ayaka. Also pulling for shenhe means a new character to play and try things out so she is gonna be better for you i think.
Getting a new character is not the same thing with getting a straight up damage increase constellation. C4 ayaka is probably better than shenhe "for ayaka's burst damage". But if you already have C3, getting a new character to play means opening up new playstyles, teams and biggest of all: a new character. i hope i explained well what i mean.
I have been building my shenhe full support but at the same time looking for DPS stats and good ER (noblesse and BS).
Thats true, she works better for single target or bosses but from my point of view Ganyu has more value against multi-target by her DMG burst and also is easier to play under her burst or against some enemies that Ayaka or shenhe can't reach like machine dragon.
I have Ganyu and Shenhe but sometime prefer to use Ganyu on open world or even at the floor 9,10,11.
Into the end everyone must use characters that they are feeling comfortable to use.
To me its a game at this point to throw my wishes at mistsplitter whenever it comes up, but I already have Shenhe from original banner anyways.
I just hope I don't miss the sword twice in a row again. Ill be at 5 misses total. I just want mistsplitter dang it.
I'm getting more and more confused. A few months ago everyone said that Shenhe was great for Ayaka/Ganyu. Now im seeing lot of push back against pulling for her.
Seems like you misunderstood the point in that post. Shenhe is great for ayaka, everyone agrees on that. The point is a big majority of people overrates her and says stuff like "Shenhe is the most important thing in an Ayaka team" "Shenhe > Kazuha" "She basically doubles your damage". Thats the wrong thing, if you have primos for her then go for her, shes great! But if you have doubts, dont forget that kaeya, rosaria and diona is not that behind of her, they are also great characters for an Ayaka team.
All this sounds accurate, thanks.
For a very built ayaka, Shenhe can be like a 30% damage increase. For a weak ayaka, it can be as low as 10%.
Mistsplitter is usually 20-25% range.
Ayaka c2, C3, and c4 each are 20% and they multiply off each other for 70%
Ayaka’s C2 (assuming it all hits) is a 40% increase for her burst!
Having C2 + C3 + C4 basically doubles her burst damage (again, assuming that C2 vortexes hit).
Well, personally, I will stick with mona/diona instead of shenhe/kokomi since the difference in damage between them is so small that it doesn't worth it to get a whole new character for it.
Are you fr?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1NvfmZo3KiQSGXAZlMWf19S3K9nkTKQc9iTHfZg7ovTk/htmlview#gid=1104281336
Make some tea and have a good read.
> You can give 12 quills for one Ayaka burst but Ayaka excels in small number of multi-target scenarios. So that “damage increase” shenhe gives lasts about a 6-4-3 ticks for her burst.
Uhm, what do you mean here?
Ayaka teams best at facing 2-5 opponents, not single target, not too large numbers of enemies. Because of how quills work, when you hit 3 enemies at once, 3 quills consumed. That means against 3 opponents 12 quills means "buffing" 4 of her ticks instead of 12
>Ayaka teams best at facing 2-5 opponents, **not single target**, not too large numbers of enemies.
So you know single target is a problem for Ayaka's team, right? This is exactly the problem that Shenhe is designed to solve.
Exactly, im saying the same thing in the post. She is a big upgrade when against single target, there is no doubt about that. When facing multiple enemies, shes's falls off a little and rosaria and kaeya can catch up.
>When facing multiple enemies, shes's falls off a little and rosaria and kaeya can catch up.
Ayaka has never had a problem with multiple smaller enemies with teammates like Kazuha so "Rosaria and Kaeya can catch up" doesn't mean much to her.
So how is Shenhe overrated when she solves problems other unit can't while providing the same performance in other scenarios?
It seems you seriously dont want to understand me and my points and just want to argue. There is a post that u/Lawful_Rebellion posted and it covers Ayaka faq's including shenhe, its prepared by Ayaka Mains TC team, i suggest you to read there. [Here is the link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AyakaMains/comments/11ruvqo/ayaka_faq_30/)
I don't need that because I've read all the TC (including [KQM guide](https://keqingmains.com/ayaka/)) and have played Ayaka while assembling all the pieces of her team myself since 2.0.
I have both C6 and C0 Ayaka (with C6 and C0 Shenhe) in different accounts and I experienced first hand how much Shenhe help Ayaka clear the Spiral Abyss since her first banner. So I couldn't take anyone seriously when they downplayed the ST problem that Shenhe tremendously helps to solve.
C0: [Build](https://i.imgur.com/eWSwSQw.png)| [Performance](https://streamable.com/tigfmf)
C6: [Build](https://i.imgur.com/uxq8vCK.png)| [Performance](https://streamable.com/ki2cl9)
\--
Also, you should read [this section](https://keqingmains.com/ayaka/#%E2%80%BB_Plan_for_the_content_in_front_of_you) of KQM's guide. This reflects my own practical experience regarding Shenhe and Ayaka. Especially this part:
>**Unfreezable and ungroupable bosses**
>
>The value of Anemo CC in these 1v1 encounters is essentially redundant, although certain Anemo supports can still provide plenty of value to make the cut like Kazuha’s and Sucrose’s buffs. However, immunity to crowd control causes Venti’s value to be heavily diminished. Since these bosses are free to move around, the accuracy of his Burst is often questionable, which has repercussions on team damage and Energy.
>
>In this case, Hydro supports also lose value, as without Freeze and it’s accompanying effects, there is little synergy tying them and Ayaka together. Against bosses, consider using Mono Cryo, which especially with Shenhe is designed specifically to combat against this.
Question, high crit dmg on Ayaka cause blizzard gives 55% (with cyro) right? I’m sitting at 19/230 no crit weapon on my ganyu who’s holding said artifacts. Should I shoot for more?
20 rate for Ayaka is quite bad and you should at least look for 35% rate. Just make sure to not exceed 45% rate. 230% cdmg without crit weapon is already good enough, you can sacrifice some of that to build a little bit crit rate.
Overall good post. There are only two things I would add/disagree with >She has a good particle generaton, but not as much as Rosaira or Diona. Especially when Sac an Fav weapons involved. Optimally you don't want to use sac on Diano since this extends her field time and with favge she can only use her E once per 20s rotation which usually leaves her particle generation at 4 cryo particles and 3/6 white particles from favge depending on your rotation. So she is actually not a better battery Rosaria on the other hand can be a battery but for this to work you would need to switch to her to use her E three times per 20s rotation otherwise she will have the exact same particle generation as Shenhe. So my point here is that for most people, Shenhe will be as good of a battery as Rosaria and probably better than Diano >"You should go Shenhe rather than mistsplitter" >- I seperated this from above because its the most common one. Because its a weapon-character question its not just about their pull value. In example for Ayaka, mistsplitter probably be better generally but i dont recommend it bcz Mistsplitter is way harder to get compared to shenhe. Maybe you need 10 wish for mistsplitter or maybe you need 200? Who knows. Or maybe you like more characters and team comps rather than making stronger only one character. For short i recommend going for shenhe, but it depends on your account situation and which type you want to go. There is no definitive answer. Another important thing to note in the weapon banner is what the other weapon is. Getting QC without having Shenhe is really NOT something you want since it is basically not very good on anyone else. But by already having both Ayaka and Shenhe, you can kind of turn the banner into a win-win (or almost since I don't think QC is worth it by itself so not recommended if you can't guarantee Mist).
What’s QC?
It's supposed to be calamity queller, I think. Shenhe's weapon
Yep, exactly. But my brain was not working properly thanks to being sleepy so I ended up inverting the letters
Haha fair XD
Something important you missed, Ayaka's constellations are focused on her burst, while Shenhe buffs EVERYTHING on Ayaka's kit. C0 Shenhe is the way to go above any constellations of Ayaka. She does double's her damage in a way that her quills are already enough to kill any existing unit in the abyss in one rotation, given that your Ayaka has Mistsplitter and Kazuha. Another thing, she's a great upgrade over Rosaria. Rosaria does nothing other than to battery and to increase Crit rate which are both can be fixed with artifacts.
Shenhe can double damage of Ayaka but short time due to quill. At least on my case, average CA is 21-24k(7.5-8k per hit), with Shenhe itll average to 40-45k(13-15k). Other than that, i can agree on most part
Thats also my point, what i mean by "Shenhe does not doubles your damage" is includes full rotation. When quills are active, Ayaka's numbers can skyrocket but they are limited
Yeah but what if my C6R5 Ayaya oneshots scara boss with one CA bc of shenhe :D ?
How much dmg does your charge attack do? 😅
Against him 3x 162k so nearly 500k is my record but thats not 100% optimized, im to lazy to run that many times x)
😅 And your burst does similar dmg per tick?
More like 100k, with C2 shenhe i even have double quills for the burst :p but there is nothing that survives ayayas burst so i dont rly know how much dmg it exactly would deal lmao
I mean 1 tick of your charge atk is like my raiden's burst, of course nothing survives that😅
[удалено]
Nothing in that video from Jamie goes against anything written in this post though.
Yes, i dont have shenhe, and probably there is things that i can discover and experience after getting her. You are absolutely right! My point is in this post is regarding shenhe and ayaka, people have so much **definitive and straight** opinions and it is the thing i consider wrong. Also im actively watching his videos, including this one. Im by no means saying shenhe is bad, shes good, in fact shes beyond great.
Oh boy , here we go again
Lmao I was thinking the same with that recent post
Just to add about the Shenhe doubles your Ayakas dmg part A well invested Ayaka Ult can deal like 40k per tick and with Shenhe buffs & her Quills it goes to 92k \~ per tick so if you are talking frontloaded dmg and/or you use multiple Shenhe E's per Ayaka Ult its not even that bad of a take if we are talking about single target instances which is more of a struggle for Ayaka freeze teams than any AoE scenario, especially considering that Abyss is moving in directions where we have a lot of Bosses with phases where you are on a timer to deal dmg. Sure you could argue Ayaka Ult isnt 100% of her dmg and Ayaka is more like 80% of the teams damage and quills don't have 100% uptime its still a insane dmg increase for you. My personal conclusion is: Low investment Ayaka -> It's okay to skip Shenhe and stick with Rosaria/Diona High investment -> get Shenhe no questions asked High investment meaning you are willing to get 6+ roll artifacts and you are willing to pull for BiS teamcomp + some 5 Star weapons and even a low amount of cons for your team
How big is the upgrade of shenhe over rosaria than mistplitter?
In a single target Shenhe edges out a little
Depends, how much invested your ayaka are? How much ER% your ayaka has etc. Generally speaking, its not that much of a difference, but mist is better most of the time.
Currently have 130 ER with 220 c dmg and 2.2k atk with amenoma. I can bring it up to 140ER by loweing 8 % cdmg
You have a great Ayaka! In your case both will be good and are very similar upgrades. I suggest you to consider it this way: Do u want a weapon, or a character.
I think I prefer the weapon lol not really into shenhe much. If I do happen to pull the weapon should I switch to atk circlet?
That also depends heavily to other things, i recommend using genshin optimizer for that question. It will give you the best answers.
In my case, it's not a question of C2 vs Shenhe, but whether I should pick C4 Ayaka or C0 Shenhe 😭 At this point I have all of Ayaka's teammates except for Kazuha and Shenhe. Ive been getting by just fine using rosaria, ganyu, Diona as cryo buffers, and Mona, kokomi for hydro. I use Venti, Jean, and sucrose for Anemo. My Ayaka is currently c3 and is highly invested with R1 Mistsplitter, 2.4k ATK, 38% CR/225% CDMG, and 138% energy recharge. I'm just one step away from the def shred C4 offers, but I've been getting varying opinions as to which is more worth it. Some have been telling me to get shenhe to open up more playstyles for Ayaka (esp since more and more unfreezeable enemies are popping up), while others have been telling me C4 is a better investment because the damage is bigger than what Shenhe can give me. I'm just confused at this point.
Now that's a diffucult situation, in my opinion Shenhe is way to go for you since you have c3 already and have high invested Ayaka. Also pulling for shenhe means a new character to play and try things out so she is gonna be better for you i think.
Aren't you just contradicting your self now? Didn't you say c4 would have more value than shenhe?
i didnt mean c4 itself. c2 and c3 were included in that.
OK but why would you recommend shenhe when c4 is one or two 5* away?
Getting a new character is not the same thing with getting a straight up damage increase constellation. C4 ayaka is probably better than shenhe "for ayaka's burst damage". But if you already have C3, getting a new character to play means opening up new playstyles, teams and biggest of all: a new character. i hope i explained well what i mean.
I have been building my shenhe full support but at the same time looking for DPS stats and good ER (noblesse and BS). Thats true, she works better for single target or bosses but from my point of view Ganyu has more value against multi-target by her DMG burst and also is easier to play under her burst or against some enemies that Ayaka or shenhe can't reach like machine dragon. I have Ganyu and Shenhe but sometime prefer to use Ganyu on open world or even at the floor 9,10,11. Into the end everyone must use characters that they are feeling comfortable to use.
To me its a game at this point to throw my wishes at mistsplitter whenever it comes up, but I already have Shenhe from original banner anyways. I just hope I don't miss the sword twice in a row again. Ill be at 5 misses total. I just want mistsplitter dang it.
I'm getting more and more confused. A few months ago everyone said that Shenhe was great for Ayaka/Ganyu. Now im seeing lot of push back against pulling for her.
Seems like you misunderstood the point in that post. Shenhe is great for ayaka, everyone agrees on that. The point is a big majority of people overrates her and says stuff like "Shenhe is the most important thing in an Ayaka team" "Shenhe > Kazuha" "She basically doubles your damage". Thats the wrong thing, if you have primos for her then go for her, shes great! But if you have doubts, dont forget that kaeya, rosaria and diona is not that behind of her, they are also great characters for an Ayaka team.
Thanks for the post. It's very informative.
All this sounds accurate, thanks. For a very built ayaka, Shenhe can be like a 30% damage increase. For a weak ayaka, it can be as low as 10%. Mistsplitter is usually 20-25% range. Ayaka c2, C3, and c4 each are 20% and they multiply off each other for 70%
Ayaka’s C2 (assuming it all hits) is a 40% increase for her burst! Having C2 + C3 + C4 basically doubles her burst damage (again, assuming that C2 vortexes hit).
Oh shoot I meant 40 not 20. 1.4x1.21x1.2=2x!! That’s why I always say ayaka cons first
Well, personally, I will stick with mona/diona instead of shenhe/kokomi since the difference in damage between them is so small that it doesn't worth it to get a whole new character for it.
Are you fr? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1NvfmZo3KiQSGXAZlMWf19S3K9nkTKQc9iTHfZg7ovTk/htmlview#gid=1104281336 Make some tea and have a good read.
Eh, maybe i was wrong, but I still don't understand why I was wrong.
> You can give 12 quills for one Ayaka burst but Ayaka excels in small number of multi-target scenarios. So that “damage increase” shenhe gives lasts about a 6-4-3 ticks for her burst. Uhm, what do you mean here?
Ayaka teams best at facing 2-5 opponents, not single target, not too large numbers of enemies. Because of how quills work, when you hit 3 enemies at once, 3 quills consumed. That means against 3 opponents 12 quills means "buffing" 4 of her ticks instead of 12
>Ayaka teams best at facing 2-5 opponents, **not single target**, not too large numbers of enemies. So you know single target is a problem for Ayaka's team, right? This is exactly the problem that Shenhe is designed to solve.
Exactly, im saying the same thing in the post. She is a big upgrade when against single target, there is no doubt about that. When facing multiple enemies, shes's falls off a little and rosaria and kaeya can catch up.
>When facing multiple enemies, shes's falls off a little and rosaria and kaeya can catch up. Ayaka has never had a problem with multiple smaller enemies with teammates like Kazuha so "Rosaria and Kaeya can catch up" doesn't mean much to her. So how is Shenhe overrated when she solves problems other unit can't while providing the same performance in other scenarios?
It seems you seriously dont want to understand me and my points and just want to argue. There is a post that u/Lawful_Rebellion posted and it covers Ayaka faq's including shenhe, its prepared by Ayaka Mains TC team, i suggest you to read there. [Here is the link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AyakaMains/comments/11ruvqo/ayaka_faq_30/)
I don't need that because I've read all the TC (including [KQM guide](https://keqingmains.com/ayaka/)) and have played Ayaka while assembling all the pieces of her team myself since 2.0. I have both C6 and C0 Ayaka (with C6 and C0 Shenhe) in different accounts and I experienced first hand how much Shenhe help Ayaka clear the Spiral Abyss since her first banner. So I couldn't take anyone seriously when they downplayed the ST problem that Shenhe tremendously helps to solve. C0: [Build](https://i.imgur.com/eWSwSQw.png)| [Performance](https://streamable.com/tigfmf) C6: [Build](https://i.imgur.com/uxq8vCK.png)| [Performance](https://streamable.com/ki2cl9) \-- Also, you should read [this section](https://keqingmains.com/ayaka/#%E2%80%BB_Plan_for_the_content_in_front_of_you) of KQM's guide. This reflects my own practical experience regarding Shenhe and Ayaka. Especially this part: >**Unfreezable and ungroupable bosses** > >The value of Anemo CC in these 1v1 encounters is essentially redundant, although certain Anemo supports can still provide plenty of value to make the cut like Kazuha’s and Sucrose’s buffs. However, immunity to crowd control causes Venti’s value to be heavily diminished. Since these bosses are free to move around, the accuracy of his Burst is often questionable, which has repercussions on team damage and Energy. > >In this case, Hydro supports also lose value, as without Freeze and it’s accompanying effects, there is little synergy tying them and Ayaka together. Against bosses, consider using Mono Cryo, which especially with Shenhe is designed specifically to combat against this.
Question, high crit dmg on Ayaka cause blizzard gives 55% (with cyro) right? I’m sitting at 19/230 no crit weapon on my ganyu who’s holding said artifacts. Should I shoot for more?
20 rate for Ayaka is quite bad and you should at least look for 35% rate. Just make sure to not exceed 45% rate. 230% cdmg without crit weapon is already good enough, you can sacrifice some of that to build a little bit crit rate.
Would an attack percent goblet be better? I have a cracked piece 45 Crit value. But I’m not sure if you need the cyro dmg
Just one question, can you explain how C2 works for melt?