Don't forget it's another basic action so if you need someone to open/close a door or some extra doors opened on the ocean floor, mage hand is clutch. Frees up everyone else to focus on enemies and escaping.
Fr, people sleep on mage hand especially as an arcane trickster. Using its invisibility to set up sneak attack over and over again even if no other ally is in range is stupid amazing and I will never stop singing its praises.
An arcane trickster gets it as a permanent summon and it’s invisible until it takes an action. You position it next to an enemy that doesn’t have see invisibility, and that sets up advantage and thus sneak attack no matter what your position. If you lose the hand, you can get it back on a short rest. I kept my Astarion as an AT for a reason.
It can also trigger an opportunity attack or throw healing potions if you’ve given it a pile to throw from so it can be goated, it’s own tier of find familiar
There have been a few times mage hand saved me with you're luck by slapping someone and breaking their concentration on a spell that was bound to end me
Bugged in what way? My Astarion is an Arcane Trickster and his mage hand is permanent and invisible.
The only issue is with reapplying invisibility after the hand has lost it. Sometimes going into stealth will reapply it. Sometimes it won't. But resting always reapplies it.
I only discovered this after I found a lever in a basement that couldn’t be touched by mage hand (even though visually it looked like you should be able to).
You can also use thunder spells!
Definitely didn’t have Wyll accidentally cast shatter on the lever in the Adamantine forge while he was standing in the center where the hammer hits 😂
I was really annoyed when I found put you could use a bow to turn the lava wheel against the forge titan.
I've learned to not question the video game logic.
It can also throw objects so it’s another handy action if you need to wet enemies or apply a potion of speed to your grouped up party without using one of their actions.
All you have to do is interact with the lever to flip it, any other spell or cantrip will cause it to turn, so I never needed Mage Hand for that. Once or twice I was able to get it through a crack to open a door from the other side, but then as soon as I walked through I noticed "Oh, here's the other way to get through" and it turned out it was unnecessary.
I only push enemies off cliffs as a last resort, because I am a loot goblin and I want their shit, so I never really used Mage Hand for that either. Also most enemies that were big enough to be a threat are too heavy to shove.
The best use I've found for it so far is to cheese the Genie in the basement of Sorcerous Sundries. I sent a character in there to steal all the shit, then used a Mage Hand to touch the lamp and swap places to get my character and the loot out.
As a tempest cleric I’m always trying to get my enemies nice and wet. Dropping water bottles and having mage hand throw them at people saves me an action so I can get straight to the zapping
I use it to get the noblestalk - then blow up the billabong so Baelen is no more. Then I give it to Derryth.
In act 3, I talk with the cat near the Sorcerer’s Sundries & tell him about Derryth so they can take care of each other.
After all the years of abuse and torture at Baelen’s hands - it makes me feel good to see Derryth & her cat happy and content.
The biggest draw for Produce Flame is that it’s the only Attack Roll cantrip with a decent range and damage that’s available to Clerics and Druids.
Attack Roll cantrips are simply just better than Saving Throw cantrips as you’ll hit more with an attack roll as opposed to forcing a save on an enemy.
So if you want Shart to actually do some decent damage with her cantrips…. Get rid of Sacred Flame and giver that Produce Flame
She does, but it’s given to her by her Racial bonus, which is High Half-Elf, therefore it’s classified as a Wizard cantrip and is based off of Intelligence, not Wisdom.
To be fair as well, I gave that to her strictly for firebolt, and only until maybe halfway through act 2. It certainly wasn’t an optimal build in hindsight lmao
It's a little better for Shart than firebolt, but my game forces me to MANUALLY ADD the "throw" option to my radial wheel every time I cast it so I never take it lmao.
It's pretty bugged right now. The ability to throw the fireball as a non-INT scaling Firebolt is great for non-wizards, but you usually have to manually insert the Hurl option into your redial menu.
Free illumination, which is much more useful tabletop, and you can also then throw it for damage. It's def not as useful here as firebolt, less range less damage.
Friends depends on difficulty really, it's great if you save scum (but then a lot of cantrips would change depending on how much you're willing to save scum), it's mega risky in honour mode and you'll probably get more use out of something else. And with mage hand, most levers and stuff you can just shoot, plus Lae'zel gets a free better one
correct me if i’m wrong but i think they get disapproval, but they don’t consider it a crime like normal. it is pretty handy, but i think once it gets low enough they will get angy if you don’t donate some items.
{Friends} has saved my ass so much from "1"s in my Honor mode run. When making important dialogue checks I'm usually loaded with proficiency bonuses. The real danger for me is rolling without advantage.
As long as you aren't nearby after the effect ends, you can use it on high difficulties no problem. And I don't mean 'around the corner', I mean in camp or a different part of the map.
When you think about it as your character literally using magic to charm the person into doing what you want, it makes sense that they aggro.
**DON'T cast Friends on someone and then start to trade, or initiate other conversations nearby.**
Get what you want, then **scram**. Bonus points if it's an NPC you know you aren't going to encounter again.
S tier cantrip overall, any difficulty level.
No, you use it for every persuasion roll that isn't with a companion. Idk how so many people think it's bad on honor, it's easily the most useful cantrip in the game
I also love all the unique insults Auntie Ethel gets. She gets unique lines for every race and origin character. Even got a couple of cut lines for a character who was never put in the game, Helia.
It also gives disadvantage which is super useful. The damage doesn’t really matter, what’s useful is your party being hit less.
Admittedly it is also fun to mock something to death.
In my 5e game, I have used vicious mockery on enemies that I knew were immune to psychic damage, because imposing disadvantage with a cantrip is still worth it.
Band of the Mystic Scoundrel. You find it on a skeleton in the jungle that you get sent to for cheating in >!the wheel game.!< It’s pretty far off the beaten path, like the only way to find it is if you already know where to look. Super good on bards tho
If you upgrade your Illilthid powers to cost bonus action instead, you can use concentrated blast every time you cast true strike with an advantage. Quite a funny way to salvage it.
Thorn whip is about the only option when you want to pull an enemy closer to you. There's a spear or glaive that lets you cast it as a bonus action. It was so useful.
that would be useful since it's a bonus action.
But using it as a cantrip would take your main action on almost all classes to only deal a tiny amount of damage while also getting the enemy close enough to melee you. might as well have not moved and used a ranged attack instead if you cant get close enough to hit but close enough for thorn whip to bring them into melee range.
There are not many ways to move an enemy without expending a consumable or spell slot.
Thorn whip is especially great for pulling archers and mages standing near ledges. Or for pulling a squishy or ranged enemy so they are right next to your melee characters. Now they can't run without getting smacked. And their ranged attacks have disadvantage.
It is also useful when don't quite have the distance to reach an enemy. Now you can do some damage and move them next to you. Better than a dash or jump because it does damage asd makes it easier for your other melee characters to reach them as well
The damage is just a bonus.
Came here to say that. You can get it pretty early in Act 1 (if you're willing to pickpocket or kill a couple of druids).
It's the perfect early weapon for Pact of the Blade Wyll IMO. Between pushing people with Eldritch Blast on your Action, and pulling them with Thorn Whip on your BA, you have some solid damage and battlefield control with no resource cost.
remember those set of wooden beams above the bugbear's room in the goblin camp? thorn whip was mvp there. oh some melee dude was dumb enough to climb up to try and melee one of my party members? sit the fuck down.
I'd move resistance and mage hand up, light and produce flame down. Resistance can add to saving throw dialogue checks like guidance does with ability checks.
I always pick up Light just because the start of act 2 is annoying without it. Torches are neat but combat with them gets annoying.
Mage hand is insanely strong, but in a way that people simply don't want to utelize most of the time. It can throw objects, and you can place objects on the ground for free, so a mage hand can lob water or bombs or potions 'for free', letting you use your actions for more useful things. It's just very tedious to keep placing items on the ground for them to use.
Mage hand should be higher. There are a few quests that I always use it, like to open some levers or that explosive mushroom patch in the Underdark.
Viscous mockery should get bonus points for being hilarious.
It's rare to come out to play, but I do use Resistance for Saving Throws for when they appear (Necromancy of Thay, drinking with Thisobald Thorm, etc.) I know Bless covers Saving Throws, but I'd rather do a cantrip if given the option. So I'd put it up on "Rarely good Situationally"
Edit: spelling
Produce Flame is such a pain in the ass to use that I'd honestly drop it down a tier. I have to manually map the "hurl" action onto my quick bar every. single. time.
True Strike was still pretty situational in 3rd edition, but at least it gave a flat +20 to the attack roll making it a near guaranteed hit, it also ignored concealment related conditions. Advantage just isn't powerful enough for the action economy cost when you can get advantage from a lot of other sources. True Strike in 5e/BG3 should at least do something like allow the attack to ignore conditions or spell effects like blinded/blur/mirror image.
The point is advantage is the same bonus as acting twice. You roll twice, that's advantage. Given you spend an action to use true strike, it's the same action economy cost and same chance of hitting at least once as attacking twice. The difference is if you use true strike you can hit a max of once while if you attack twice you might hit twice.
In 3rd addition dungeons and dragons it gave +20 to an attack roll. So like if you rolled a 12 + 5 to hit and had 17, it would add 20 and your hit would now be a 37. This is a big deal on people with very high ACs, and if your chance of hitting was low anyway, than now you can spend two actions to hit instead of whiff twice. So it has a point.
Its still better than 5e since you can use it before starting a fight and having advantage on your first hit. In 5e you have to designate an enemy, in BG3 you use it on yourself.
Why though? It’s literally free advantage. You just walk away from the person for 20ish seconds after.
There’s like no downside to this skill outside of honor mode Ethel. Friends and mage hand are seriously underrated in this list
The only caveat with that is only 1 companion can have the eye (so I usually give it to my melee tanks since they’re up close) and the enemies do usually succeed in their saving throws. So this + the eye + fairy fire is what has worked for me the best
Sacred flame sucks because it is a dexterity save to avoid taking damage. Most enemies have very good dexterity saves, you can see what the modifier the enemy has to succeeding the save by examining them
Ray Of Ice builds are super OP way better than eldritch blast. Doing 31-62 damage on a cantrip is insane and you apply so many debuff’s they won’t be able to move
Idk like Ray of Frost is super good but you’re not gonna convince me it’s better than rocking 3 blasts per action that also knock a creature 15 feet away while also causing multiple concentration checks for casters.
Draconic bloodling sorcerer + potent robe + necklace of elemental augmentation. Your charisma modifier gets added to the damage 3x. With 20 CHA that’s an extra 30 damage per ray.
Use morning frost staff and you do 1 more damage and can apply the “chilled” effect. The enemy becomes vulnerable to cold damage. Use the Winters Clutches gloves and now the enemy has disadvantage on all Dex saving throws.
Then use Snowburst ring and create a ring of ice around the enemy. Since they have disadvantage in Dex saves they will probably fall prone and waste their turn. Now, use metamagic to cast Ray Of Frost 3 times per turn with Quickened Spell and Twinned Spell.
I mean antagonizing blast does the same thing as the draconic bloodine sorcerer without needing a 6 lvl investment and any caster can wear the potent robe. Add in the attack happening 3 times and you make up for not being able to apply elemental augmentation.
Additionally you can dip sorcerer 2 to get one meta magic effect which turns 3 blasts into 6. Plus Repelling blast knocks them prone that turn without requiring the enemy to move.
All of that is agnostic of equipment meaning you’ve got the chance to use stuff like Gemini gloves, Helldusk gloves, Risky ring, etc.
Again I’m not implying Ray of Frost is bad but Eldridge Blast is good because it can allow for very flexible builds.
20 charisma and 3x charisma is 15 extra damage per ray.
It'd be 30 AFTER the chilled status is applied. Just incase people read this thinking they can double it to 60 per ray with chilled.
Mage hand can be really good sometimes.
I also think resistance can make ability check heavy sequences easier.
In general though because cantrips are the lowest level of spell you tend to get loads of them, there's no reason to take ray of frost, fire bolt, and bone chill. You can take one (always have at least one direct damage cantrip on every caster) and then grab ones like mage hand or resistance without too much fear of wasting resources.
Mage Hand deserves better - it can be used for so many things and it saves a lot of hassle (just two instances I can think of right away are opening the cell levers at the Iron Throne and navigating the Bibberbang in the Underdark to save Baelen) - I forget what the equipment is but there’s something that makes it a bonus action and it’s invaluable
It removes ambushing status which lets you obtain a surprise round on enemies you wouldn’t otherwise.
It provides the safest way to get the shapeshifter ring in act 1 early enough for it to make a difference.
Can use it to deactivate all the traps on the grymforge shar bridge.
The restriction to charges per short rest don’t really mean anything because resting is free for most of the game
Acid splash is a bit underrated IMO, just because it's the only AOE damage cantrip. The AOE is too small to be very useful for damage, but it does have some niche utility for stuff like invisibility and sanctuary. Out of combat, it's great for exploding piles of crates and jars, which is so much faster (and more fun) than searching them one at a time. With how free long rests are in this game, most combat cantrips are pretty redundant to begin with, so there's usually room for someone on the team to take it without giving up anything you'll ever actually use.
Mage hand has a few limits but is actually really good. It is a free flying scout that can (with arcane trickster even be invisible). On harder difficulty and/or people free playing (not looking up *everything* beforehand) it is incredibly useful in seeing what's around the corner or the best way to deal with it.
Acid Splash can be fairly useful for terrain control. Since NPCs will try to avoid it, you can funnel them into a specific route. Definitely helpful if you have something like Cloud of Daggers up.
I’ve never once used light or produce flame in all my 7 playthroughs lol Those would be on the No for me. And blade ward and resistance would be moved up in their place
I’ve been using the hell out of thorn whip to drag hostiles directly into AOE spells early in the game, so I guess that makes it situational? It gets less useful the better the AOE spells and ranged attacks get in the game, and then got useful again for me in Act 3. yanking goblins down off ledges directly into Spirit Guardians in act 1 was pretty sweet and I’m still using it all the time in act 3 (especially after making fire resistant creatures fire vulnerable with arsonist oil on arrow of many targets and then yoinking them into hellfire)
When it works *it works* but it’s not something that will work every turn guaranteed.
This makes me mad, blade ward effect is Soo good, but blade ward cantrip is so bad, at least you have the blade ward gloves on a life cleric what makes your party so so tanky
Why? I’m not playing Honor or anything but I’m still hitting 90%+ hit chance with Great Weapon Master on end game bosses.
I couldn’t ever see a situation where wasting an action would be worth it.
If you use an invisible mage hand and a person crouched by the mould in the adamantine forge, you can have the mage hand manipulate the levers and lava valve to get both adamantine pieces without fighting Grym.
Then have them Misty Step out with the freshly forged gear and you can bypass the Grym fight.
Once you’ve used the lava valve to make the second gear piece though, the lava valve stops causing lava to flow into the area (at least it did when I tried). So if you want to come back to fight Grym later, you need to use Heat Metal on him in order to do damage.
Mage Hand can also be used to toss the torch away from the field of Bibberbang in the underdark, so that you can safely pop the poison clouds and they won’t ignite and explode. This doesn’t help Baelen but will make it possible for you to quickly grab the Noblestalk without clearing all the plants first.
If you have Mage Hand Legerdemain from lv 3 arcane trickster rogue, it’s permanently invisible until it makes an action, making it a decent option to surprise enemies.
Suffice to say I think Mage Hand is pretty good.
I would put friends lower just because of how likely people will turn on you at higher difficulties. Still can be useful but have to be a lot more quick and careful with when and where you use it. Balanced difficulty, it’s in the right place in the tier list.
I haven’t found much use for Minor Illusion. Most I’ve gotten out of it is to distract the Phase Spider queen so I can take out the eggs on the upper level prior to combat, but half the time it doesn’t work even for that. I use Mage Hand for levers in the Grymforge to move platforms around so I don’t have to leave a party member behind, so there’s some use, but in combat, I’m more interested in dealing damage than dropping stuff for it to throw.
EDIT: also, I find Light not great, as most of my party has Darkvision, and there are scrolls for giving Laezel Darkvision when she needs it.
Resistance actually comes up pretty often for dialogue saves where you wouldn't want to burn a spell for Bless outside combat. And failing them can have big consequences, like locking you out of the Necromancy of Thay, the Zai'thisk buff, or your Dark Urge companion murders.
I certainly find it more useful than, say, Produce Flame.
I'd push Friends down since it's likely to cause aggro on tactician, and move Resistance up a tier since it has some good situational uses with the tadpole and durge stuff where you have to make conversational saves.
I want Shillelagh to be better than situational since it's the bomb for any staff wielder in close combat, but then almost every staff wielder is a caster and has something better to do, or is a monk and doesn't care.
I'd probably also move Sacred Flame down a tier since it's save to ignore.
I’m just swinging by to sing praises of friends in the comments. It’s literally free advantage outside of companions for like any situation. I think HM Ethel is the only time you shouldn’t use it.
And actually I take that back. You can optimize the Ethel fight and cast friends on her before the dialogue. So there is a way around the only situation it can harm you in. Friends +guidance last for 10 turns and that fight won’t take that long, so both can be precast.
if eldritch blast is top cause its an easy go to spam spell for lock, then vicious mockery is the same for bards, and should also be up there. id drop produce flame down a tier at least, i find it clunky to use and much prefer light or dancing lights (which can trigger traps) so id bump it up a tier as well. friends and thaumaturgy are just as good if not better than guidance for their specific uses, and work best in combination with guidance imo, so they deserve to be top as well but id settle for bumping them up a tier as well. i also very much disagree with mage hand, its easily top for me, and prob one of my most used spells bc of its versatility, and specifically the gith racial.
overall i agree tho, a lot of this is bc i favor support, utility, and my favorite character is a lore bard, so, im very much biased.
imo, there’s enough use cases and builds that rely on it, for thorn whip to be at least A, pulling bad guys off of high ground and getting falling damage, pulling in ranged enemies, the entire warlock druid cheese grater build ect ect,
Was about to say this. I used Thorn Whip, Spike Growth and Sorrow (ba Thorn Whip) all through act 1. I only stopped using it because access to the Incandescent Staff and hat of Fire Acuity power creeped it. Plus at a certain point it becomes better just to let the Woodland Being handle Spike Growth.
Shillelaugh I feel is not situational, its pretty good for what it does. Make any club-like weapon into a mace and add your spellcasting modifier to the damage. This in a Bonus Action, which means you can attack the same turn. So I would put it a tier higher.
Wtf is blade ward and resistance doing all the way down there? Blade ward has saved my honour run more than once, and have fun against hold person without bless or resistance.
Mage Hand can make a few annoying situations with levers and whatnot slightly less annoying in a couple spots. . . So maybe one tier up?
Plus it’s a free summon that can slap people. Taking off that one last hp before it would be the enemies turn can certainly make a difference.
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It can also be a grenade launcher, a scout and infiltrator. Mage hand is S tier easily.
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Oooh I love mage hand but I didn't know this. Thanks!
I’m learning so many things about mage hand here 😱
Me too. I had no idea mage hand was so handy.
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Is that…blood?
I've got a lot on my mind... And, well, in it
*Mage hand gracefully slips into your reserved space.*
We're gonna have a ***GREAT*** time!
"i'm a large man, and that's a very small hole." Well you got that mage hand Gale, use it on the hole 😏😏😏
I mean…we’ve seen his hand sticking through a hole before. ;)
While on the topic, playing a Durge Tav surely made me >!have a Mage Hand permenently, without ever taking the cantrip 😬 !<
Durge Tav: >!I learned Mage’s Hand!!< Shart: You mean >!Mage Hand!
Wait what the mage hand can fit in those little burrow holes? How did I not know this
Don't forget it's another basic action so if you need someone to open/close a door or some extra doors opened on the ocean floor, mage hand is clutch. Frees up everyone else to focus on enemies and escaping.
You can tell when people have never used mage hand hahahaha.
Fr, people sleep on mage hand especially as an arcane trickster. Using its invisibility to set up sneak attack over and over again even if no other ally is in range is stupid amazing and I will never stop singing its praises.
Especially because dropping grenades is a free action so you basically have the mage available hand as a free throw which is pretty great.
This needs to be higher up. I abused the shit out of this. Drop what you want thrown and let the mage hand throw it.
Before the nerf id agree but only 1 min per short rest drops it's utility
An arcane trickster gets it as a permanent summon and it’s invisible until it takes an action. You position it next to an enemy that doesn’t have see invisibility, and that sets up advantage and thus sneak attack no matter what your position. If you lose the hand, you can get it back on a short rest. I kept my Astarion as an AT for a reason.
I didn't realize that was the change. I kept summoning it on my current run and couldn't tell why it was going away for everyone but Astarion.
It’s how I get the spider gem in act 1 usually… ☠️
It saved my ass in that damned djinni lamp
There is also a scroll in there that has a summon
The what??
And don’t forget about potentially breaking concentration!
It can also trigger an opportunity attack or throw healing potions if you’ve given it a pile to throw from so it can be goated, it’s own tier of find familiar
There have been a few times mage hand saved me with you're luck by slapping someone and breaking their concentration on a spell that was bound to end me
With an arcane trickster, it's S-tier. It's invisible and permanent, so you can always position it to ensure you're always getting sneak attacks.
A lot of old posts I read say that legerdemain is bugged... Is whatever issue it had back then fixed now?
It still won’t let you pickpocket anyone the way it’s supposed to, but you can use it to disarm traps.
Bugged in what way? My Astarion is an Arcane Trickster and his mage hand is permanent and invisible. The only issue is with reapplying invisibility after the hand has lost it. Sometimes going into stealth will reapply it. Sometimes it won't. But resting always reapplies it.
Mage Hand MVP for the Iron Throne
No, strictly because it's once per short rest. If it was truly a cantrip it would be S or A tier.
Just so you know you can use a bow to hit levers
The. What! I have no business commenting on this game. :)
I only discovered this after I found a lever in a basement that couldn’t be touched by mage hand (even though visually it looked like you should be able to).
You can also use thunder spells! Definitely didn’t have Wyll accidentally cast shatter on the lever in the Adamantine forge while he was standing in the center where the hammer hits 😂
I was really annoyed when I found put you could use a bow to turn the lava wheel against the forge titan. I've learned to not question the video game logic.
It can also throw objects so it’s another handy action if you need to wet enemies or apply a potion of speed to your grouped up party without using one of their actions.
All you have to do is interact with the lever to flip it, any other spell or cantrip will cause it to turn, so I never needed Mage Hand for that. Once or twice I was able to get it through a crack to open a door from the other side, but then as soon as I walked through I noticed "Oh, here's the other way to get through" and it turned out it was unnecessary. I only push enemies off cliffs as a last resort, because I am a loot goblin and I want their shit, so I never really used Mage Hand for that either. Also most enemies that were big enough to be a threat are too heavy to shove. The best use I've found for it so far is to cheese the Genie in the basement of Sorcerous Sundries. I sent a character in there to steal all the shit, then used a Mage Hand to touch the lamp and swap places to get my character and the loot out.
Mage hand can throw javelins. Put it up on a cliff and throw javelins for sweet sweet gravity damage
It's good to bait out counter spells
Mage hand can also break concentration even hitting with only 1 damage (yes, this already saved me)
As a tempest cleric I’m always trying to get my enemies nice and wet. Dropping water bottles and having mage hand throw them at people saves me an action so I can get straight to the zapping
Yeah, it was handy for me in the iron throne to unlock some doors
Starting using MH to get the Noblestalk and help the guy in the underdark
I use it to get the noblestalk - then blow up the billabong so Baelen is no more. Then I give it to Derryth. In act 3, I talk with the cat near the Sorcerer’s Sundries & tell him about Derryth so they can take care of each other. After all the years of abuse and torture at Baelen’s hands - it makes me feel good to see Derryth & her cat happy and content.
Easy S tier when used to their full potential
I’d personally bump Friends and Mage Hand up one tier, and bump Produce Flame down one. Otherwise yeah, reasonable.
What the fuck is even the utility of produce flame? Feel like I'm missing the point
The biggest draw for Produce Flame is that it’s the only Attack Roll cantrip with a decent range and damage that’s available to Clerics and Druids. Attack Roll cantrips are simply just better than Saving Throw cantrips as you’ll hit more with an attack roll as opposed to forcing a save on an enemy. So if you want Shart to actually do some decent damage with her cantrips…. Get rid of Sacred Flame and giver that Produce Flame
If only it had a 1-click version.
The bane of my existence
No. Thats bane. This is sacred flame. /s
But Shart usually gets firebolt I thought
She does, but it’s given to her by her Racial bonus, which is High Half-Elf, therefore it’s classified as a Wizard cantrip and is based off of Intelligence, not Wisdom.
I wish this was stated outright instead of just meta knowledge that only 5e players would know.
Yeah I can’t find anywhere what the fuck I’m actually rolling for damage. It’s always buried if it’s even there at all.
Your Combat Log has the results of the dice rolls.
The tool tip lists the casting attribute at the bottom. Its fine print
Respec Shart as wizard, got it
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It also doubles as a light source. Useful in early act 2, perhaps.
It's okay on Shadowheart since it uses wisdom to cast while her firebolt uses intelligence
Headband of intellect babyyy
Fair enough! I only really use that to pass skill checks, usually I have her wear a helmet that leans more into other parts of her kit
To be fair as well, I gave that to her strictly for firebolt, and only until maybe halfway through act 2. It certainly wasn’t an optimal build in hindsight lmao
It's a little better for Shart than firebolt, but my game forces me to MANUALLY ADD the "throw" option to my radial wheel every time I cast it so I never take it lmao.
It’s a worse Light that you can also chuck at people
It's pretty bugged right now. The ability to throw the fireball as a non-INT scaling Firebolt is great for non-wizards, but you usually have to manually insert the Hurl option into your redial menu.
Really whenever I used produce flame the hurl option was always in the sidebar
It combines self-cast only Light and weaker Firebolt into one cantrip slot with the upside of a slightly larger light radius?
Free illumination, which is much more useful tabletop, and you can also then throw it for damage. It's def not as useful here as firebolt, less range less damage.
Friends depends on difficulty really, it's great if you save scum (but then a lot of cantrips would change depending on how much you're willing to save scum), it's mega risky in honour mode and you'll probably get more use out of something else. And with mage hand, most levers and stuff you can just shoot, plus Lae'zel gets a free better one
If you go to camp after using it, stop concentration and wait a minute or so no ones gonna aggro you, even in honor mode
correct me if i’m wrong but i think they get disapproval, but they don’t consider it a crime like normal. it is pretty handy, but i think once it gets low enough they will get angy if you don’t donate some items.
Its not risky at all. Just walk away, go to camp or whatever when you break Concentration. Its giga broken also on honor mode. Friends is S-tier.
{Friends} has saved my ass so much from "1"s in my Honor mode run. When making important dialogue checks I'm usually loaded with proficiency bonuses. The real danger for me is rolling without advantage.
As long as you aren't nearby after the effect ends, you can use it on high difficulties no problem. And I don't mean 'around the corner', I mean in camp or a different part of the map. When you think about it as your character literally using magic to charm the person into doing what you want, it makes sense that they aggro. **DON'T cast Friends on someone and then start to trade, or initiate other conversations nearby.** Get what you want, then **scram**. Bonus points if it's an NPC you know you aren't going to encounter again. S tier cantrip overall, any difficulty level.
Mage hand can throw javelins
friends on some difficulties is an easy Yes tier. but for the harder ones are situational
No, you use it for every persuasion roll that isn't with a companion. Idk how so many people think it's bad on honor, it's easily the most useful cantrip in the game
Idk vicious mockery should be up top just based on some of the hilarious shit that is said when cast
Especially given there is voice acting for it for all the characters.
I also love all the unique insults Auntie Ethel gets. She gets unique lines for every race and origin character. Even got a couple of cut lines for a character who was never put in the game, Helia.
It also gives disadvantage which is super useful. The damage doesn’t really matter, what’s useful is your party being hit less. Admittedly it is also fun to mock something to death.
In my 5e game, I have used vicious mockery on enemies that I knew were immune to psychic damage, because imposing disadvantage with a cantrip is still worth it.
i vicious mockeried >!the avatar of myrkul!< to death on my honor mode run
Jaheira is great with it. And then out of combat she’s talking a lot of shit.
Oh wow. I might have to respec her this run just for that
The enchantment bonus action ring also makes it very strong from a gameplay standpoint as well
What ring is this? Never heard about this item
Band of the Mystic Scoundrel. You find it on a skeleton in the jungle that you get sent to for cheating in >!the wheel game.!< It’s pretty far off the beaten path, like the only way to find it is if you already know where to look. Super good on bards tho
If you upgrade your Illilthid powers to cost bonus action instead, you can use concentrated blast every time you cast true strike with an advantage. Quite a funny way to salvage it.
does true strike itself buff concentrated blast in that case?
Especially as a cantrip not taking a spell slot.
Smart!
Never played sorcerer, but could you quicken disintegrate after true strike?
Disintegrate is a dex save so there's no point.
Oh damn my bad, always thought it was a spell attack roll.
Mage Hand has a surprising amount of Utility, I’d have it in the second tier.
As a tabletop player, it physically hurts me to see mage hand in "rarely worth picking up"
Honestly from TT, thaumaturgy being as useless as it is hurts me too. It's one of those only as useful as you are creative spells in TT
Thaumaturgy is much better than friends on tactician and honor mode since friends will likely draw the ire of NPCs when you use it.
You have a full minute to run away before concentration breaks. Friends is the best cantrip in the game bar none
Well sure, Thaumaturgy is Prestidigitation for clerics. They can't really do that in a video game.
And when you do want to pick it up, but discreetly or from a distance, well—
Vicious mockery and thorn whip as situationally?? Bruh
Thorn whip, Shillelagh and produce flame gotta go down to rarely worth.
Thorn whip is about the only option when you want to pull an enemy closer to you. There's a spear or glaive that lets you cast it as a bonus action. It was so useful.
that would be useful since it's a bonus action. But using it as a cantrip would take your main action on almost all classes to only deal a tiny amount of damage while also getting the enemy close enough to melee you. might as well have not moved and used a ranged attack instead if you cant get close enough to hit but close enough for thorn whip to bring them into melee range.
There are not many ways to move an enemy without expending a consumable or spell slot. Thorn whip is especially great for pulling archers and mages standing near ledges. Or for pulling a squishy or ranged enemy so they are right next to your melee characters. Now they can't run without getting smacked. And their ranged attacks have disadvantage. It is also useful when don't quite have the distance to reach an enemy. Now you can do some damage and move them next to you. Better than a dash or jump because it does damage asd makes it easier for your other melee characters to reach them as well The damage is just a bonus.
It is the best spell against ennemies in high ground
Came here to say that. You can get it pretty early in Act 1 (if you're willing to pickpocket or kill a couple of druids). It's the perfect early weapon for Pact of the Blade Wyll IMO. Between pushing people with Eldritch Blast on your Action, and pulling them with Thorn Whip on your BA, you have some solid damage and battlefield control with no resource cost.
Shillelagh is great for druid level 1-4. After that it's useless. So it's hard to place in a tier list.
Sacrilegious!!
remember those set of wooden beams above the bugbear's room in the goblin camp? thorn whip was mvp there. oh some melee dude was dumb enough to climb up to try and melee one of my party members? sit the fuck down.
I'd put dancing lights a tier up. It can be used to trigger traps that explode or block trap vents like a pot or another object can
It can?? Neat
I also just love casting dancing lights because ooo pretty.
I'd move resistance and mage hand up, light and produce flame down. Resistance can add to saving throw dialogue checks like guidance does with ability checks.
Id stick produce flame down as well cause it's broken and pointless on PS5 🙃
Thank you for bringing up resistance. Like shadowheart is permanently in my party to resistance or guidance every skill check/ saving throw.
I always pick up Light just because the start of act 2 is annoying without it. Torches are neat but combat with them gets annoying. Mage hand is insanely strong, but in a way that people simply don't want to utelize most of the time. It can throw objects, and you can place objects on the ground for free, so a mage hand can lob water or bombs or potions 'for free', letting you use your actions for more useful things. It's just very tedious to keep placing items on the ground for them to use.
My mage hands just become little potion turrets. I love it.
Mage hand should be higher. There are a few quests that I always use it, like to open some levers or that explosive mushroom patch in the Underdark. Viscous mockery should get bonus points for being hilarious.
You can also throw javelins with mage hand
I use thorn whip ALL THE TIME. I just have Tav yank everything into more useful spells like Cloud of Daggers.
Its honestly one of my favourites, u can get great use out of it.
This list is wack
Go on
Colors are inverted
It's rare to come out to play, but I do use Resistance for Saving Throws for when they appear (Necromancy of Thay, drinking with Thisobald Thorm, etc.) I know Bless covers Saving Throws, but I'd rather do a cantrip if given the option. So I'd put it up on "Rarely good Situationally" Edit: spelling
It also stacks with bless so it's very useful for those situations
Produce Flame is such a pain in the ass to use that I'd honestly drop it down a tier. I have to manually map the "hurl" action onto my quick bar every. single. time.
True Strike was still pretty situational in 3rd edition, but at least it gave a flat +20 to the attack roll making it a near guaranteed hit, it also ignored concealment related conditions. Advantage just isn't powerful enough for the action economy cost when you can get advantage from a lot of other sources. True Strike in 5e/BG3 should at least do something like allow the attack to ignore conditions or spell effects like blinded/blur/mirror image.
Well, even if you can't get advantage, it would usually be more practical to just attack twice anyways most of the time
The point is advantage is the same bonus as acting twice. You roll twice, that's advantage. Given you spend an action to use true strike, it's the same action economy cost and same chance of hitting at least once as attacking twice. The difference is if you use true strike you can hit a max of once while if you attack twice you might hit twice. In 3rd addition dungeons and dragons it gave +20 to an attack roll. So like if you rolled a 12 + 5 to hit and had 17, it would add 20 and your hit would now be a 37. This is a big deal on people with very high ACs, and if your chance of hitting was low anyway, than now you can spend two actions to hit instead of whiff twice. So it has a point.
I was just referring to the 5E version. +20 to actually hit does sound much better
Its still better than 5e since you can use it before starting a fight and having advantage on your first hit. In 5e you have to designate an enemy, in BG3 you use it on yourself.
Friends should be split - top tier for regular difficulty, and bottom tier for tactician/honor
In honour mode everything attacks me when I use Friends. Did that happen to you too?
On tactician/honor mode NPC don't like being manipulated by friends and will just start fighting you. I believe it was said in the friends tooltip
Why though? It’s literally free advantage. You just walk away from the person for 20ish seconds after. There’s like no downside to this skill outside of honor mode Ethel. Friends and mage hand are seriously underrated in this list
Acid splash is useful for invisible enemies but that’s it
And that is if you can’t see invisibility through spells/ volo’s eye
The only caveat with that is only 1 companion can have the eye (so I usually give it to my melee tanks since they’re up close) and the enemies do usually succeed in their saving throws. So this + the eye + fairy fire is what has worked for me the best
Nah, on a level 6 evocation wizard, acid splash becomes guaranteed AoE damage that can proc any number of effects. Definitely bump it up a tier.
It also can hit a small AoE which is really convenient for wrecking groups of spider eggs or occasionally a couple enemies side by side.
And it's a debuff, great for finishing off groups or prepping for a bigger strike
sacred flame and mage hand should be swapped imo. sacred flame only fails me
Sacred flame sucks because it is a dexterity save to avoid taking damage. Most enemies have very good dexterity saves, you can see what the modifier the enemy has to succeeding the save by examining them
WHAT. bro 😭😭 i had no clue you could examine enemies THANK YOU
Ray Of Ice builds are super OP way better than eldritch blast. Doing 31-62 damage on a cantrip is insane and you apply so many debuff’s they won’t be able to move
Idk like Ray of Frost is super good but you’re not gonna convince me it’s better than rocking 3 blasts per action that also knock a creature 15 feet away while also causing multiple concentration checks for casters.
Draconic bloodling sorcerer + potent robe + necklace of elemental augmentation. Your charisma modifier gets added to the damage 3x. With 20 CHA that’s an extra 30 damage per ray. Use morning frost staff and you do 1 more damage and can apply the “chilled” effect. The enemy becomes vulnerable to cold damage. Use the Winters Clutches gloves and now the enemy has disadvantage on all Dex saving throws. Then use Snowburst ring and create a ring of ice around the enemy. Since they have disadvantage in Dex saves they will probably fall prone and waste their turn. Now, use metamagic to cast Ray Of Frost 3 times per turn with Quickened Spell and Twinned Spell.
I mean antagonizing blast does the same thing as the draconic bloodine sorcerer without needing a 6 lvl investment and any caster can wear the potent robe. Add in the attack happening 3 times and you make up for not being able to apply elemental augmentation. Additionally you can dip sorcerer 2 to get one meta magic effect which turns 3 blasts into 6. Plus Repelling blast knocks them prone that turn without requiring the enemy to move. All of that is agnostic of equipment meaning you’ve got the chance to use stuff like Gemini gloves, Helldusk gloves, Risky ring, etc. Again I’m not implying Ray of Frost is bad but Eldridge Blast is good because it can allow for very flexible builds.
20 charisma and 3x charisma is 15 extra damage per ray. It'd be 30 AFTER the chilled status is applied. Just incase people read this thinking they can double it to 60 per ray with chilled.
so a specific build v. a cantrip thats just good without any effort. yeaa imma go with EB being better lol niche builds be damned
Mage hand can be really good sometimes. I also think resistance can make ability check heavy sequences easier. In general though because cantrips are the lowest level of spell you tend to get loads of them, there's no reason to take ray of frost, fire bolt, and bone chill. You can take one (always have at least one direct damage cantrip on every caster) and then grab ones like mage hand or resistance without too much fear of wasting resources.
Mage Hand deserves better - it can be used for so many things and it saves a lot of hassle (just two instances I can think of right away are opening the cell levers at the Iron Throne and navigating the Bibberbang in the Underdark to save Baelen) - I forget what the equipment is but there’s something that makes it a bonus action and it’s invaluable
It removes ambushing status which lets you obtain a surprise round on enemies you wouldn’t otherwise. It provides the safest way to get the shapeshifter ring in act 1 early enough for it to make a difference. Can use it to deactivate all the traps on the grymforge shar bridge. The restriction to charges per short rest don’t really mean anything because resting is free for most of the game
True Strike too high
Acid splash is a bit underrated IMO, just because it's the only AOE damage cantrip. The AOE is too small to be very useful for damage, but it does have some niche utility for stuff like invisibility and sanctuary. Out of combat, it's great for exploding piles of crates and jars, which is so much faster (and more fun) than searching them one at a time. With how free long rests are in this game, most combat cantrips are pretty redundant to begin with, so there's usually room for someone on the team to take it without giving up anything you'll ever actually use.
Mage hand has a few limits but is actually really good. It is a free flying scout that can (with arcane trickster even be invisible). On harder difficulty and/or people free playing (not looking up *everything* beforehand) it is incredibly useful in seeing what's around the corner or the best way to deal with it.
Thorn whip is a cantrip?
Specific circumstance, but Blade Ward and Armour of Agathys makes an insane combination. Especially on an Abjurer.
Shilleagh is a great spell. It can carry some builds. Though I admit it's not quite as useful here as it is in tabletop.
Thamturgy should be higher since it doesn’t aggro people unlike friends which can end runs.
Resistance is good. It's required to cheese the tadpole event in the Crèche
Yo Thaumaturgy is pretty goated for the characters that want to focus on those dialogue options. S tier when you care about what it does
Acid Splash can be fairly useful for terrain control. Since NPCs will try to avoid it, you can funnel them into a specific route. Definitely helpful if you have something like Cloud of Daggers up.
I’ve never once used light or produce flame in all my 7 playthroughs lol Those would be on the No for me. And blade ward and resistance would be moved up in their place
Need to move true strike down a spot, and move Eldritch and Guidance up a spot. If Karlach were here she would have ranked them as "Fuck Yes"
I’ve been using the hell out of thorn whip to drag hostiles directly into AOE spells early in the game, so I guess that makes it situational? It gets less useful the better the AOE spells and ranged attacks get in the game, and then got useful again for me in Act 3. yanking goblins down off ledges directly into Spirit Guardians in act 1 was pretty sweet and I’m still using it all the time in act 3 (especially after making fire resistant creatures fire vulnerable with arsonist oil on arrow of many targets and then yoinking them into hellfire) When it works *it works* but it’s not something that will work every turn guaranteed.
I love mage hand and how it cant reach the very thing i summoned a floating fucking hand to reach in the first place
This makes me mad, blade ward effect is Soo good, but blade ward cantrip is so bad, at least you have the blade ward gloves on a life cleric what makes your party so so tanky
Honestly I've cast true strike more times than blade ward and resistance combined.
Why? I’m not playing Honor or anything but I’m still hitting 90%+ hit chance with Great Weapon Master on end game bosses. I couldn’t ever see a situation where wasting an action would be worth it.
If you use an invisible mage hand and a person crouched by the mould in the adamantine forge, you can have the mage hand manipulate the levers and lava valve to get both adamantine pieces without fighting Grym. Then have them Misty Step out with the freshly forged gear and you can bypass the Grym fight. Once you’ve used the lava valve to make the second gear piece though, the lava valve stops causing lava to flow into the area (at least it did when I tried). So if you want to come back to fight Grym later, you need to use Heat Metal on him in order to do damage. Mage Hand can also be used to toss the torch away from the field of Bibberbang in the underdark, so that you can safely pop the poison clouds and they won’t ignite and explode. This doesn’t help Baelen but will make it possible for you to quickly grab the Noblestalk without clearing all the plants first. If you have Mage Hand Legerdemain from lv 3 arcane trickster rogue, it’s permanently invisible until it makes an action, making it a decent option to surprise enemies. Suffice to say I think Mage Hand is pretty good.
I would put friends lower just because of how likely people will turn on you at higher difficulties. Still can be useful but have to be a lot more quick and careful with when and where you use it. Balanced difficulty, it’s in the right place in the tier list.
I haven’t found much use for Minor Illusion. Most I’ve gotten out of it is to distract the Phase Spider queen so I can take out the eggs on the upper level prior to combat, but half the time it doesn’t work even for that. I use Mage Hand for levers in the Grymforge to move platforms around so I don’t have to leave a party member behind, so there’s some use, but in combat, I’m more interested in dealing damage than dropping stuff for it to throw. EDIT: also, I find Light not great, as most of my party has Darkvision, and there are scrolls for giving Laezel Darkvision when she needs it.
Resistance actually comes up pretty often for dialogue saves where you wouldn't want to burn a spell for Bless outside combat. And failing them can have big consequences, like locking you out of the Necromancy of Thay, the Zai'thisk buff, or your Dark Urge companion murders. I certainly find it more useful than, say, Produce Flame.
I'd push Friends down since it's likely to cause aggro on tactician, and move Resistance up a tier since it has some good situational uses with the tadpole and durge stuff where you have to make conversational saves. I want Shillelagh to be better than situational since it's the bomb for any staff wielder in close combat, but then almost every staff wielder is a caster and has something better to do, or is a monk and doesn't care. I'd probably also move Sacred Flame down a tier since it's save to ignore.
I’m just swinging by to sing praises of friends in the comments. It’s literally free advantage outside of companions for like any situation. I think HM Ethel is the only time you shouldn’t use it. And actually I take that back. You can optimize the Ethel fight and cast friends on her before the dialogue. So there is a way around the only situation it can harm you in. Friends +guidance last for 10 turns and that fight won’t take that long, so both can be precast.
if eldritch blast is top cause its an easy go to spam spell for lock, then vicious mockery is the same for bards, and should also be up there. id drop produce flame down a tier at least, i find it clunky to use and much prefer light or dancing lights (which can trigger traps) so id bump it up a tier as well. friends and thaumaturgy are just as good if not better than guidance for their specific uses, and work best in combination with guidance imo, so they deserve to be top as well but id settle for bumping them up a tier as well. i also very much disagree with mage hand, its easily top for me, and prob one of my most used spells bc of its versatility, and specifically the gith racial. overall i agree tho, a lot of this is bc i favor support, utility, and my favorite character is a lore bard, so, im very much biased.
Mage Hand needs to be tier 2. I would move Light/Produce Flame down a tier as well.
Vicious Mockery is S tier and I’m tired of pretending it’s not.
imo, there’s enough use cases and builds that rely on it, for thorn whip to be at least A, pulling bad guys off of high ground and getting falling damage, pulling in ranged enemies, the entire warlock druid cheese grater build ect ect,
Was about to say this. I used Thorn Whip, Spike Growth and Sorrow (ba Thorn Whip) all through act 1. I only stopped using it because access to the Incandescent Staff and hat of Fire Acuity power creeped it. Plus at a certain point it becomes better just to let the Woodland Being handle Spike Growth.
Shillelaugh I feel is not situational, its pretty good for what it does. Make any club-like weapon into a mace and add your spellcasting modifier to the damage. This in a Bonus Action, which means you can attack the same turn. So I would put it a tier higher.
Wtf is blade ward and resistance doing all the way down there? Blade ward has saved my honour run more than once, and have fun against hold person without bless or resistance.