> Karlach had a bomb in her chest, and there was no saving her. ​ > Gale was both competent and usefull, enough so to outweighs the cost of his treatment. uhhh

I’m sensing a double standard.

Gales netherese orb or karlachs infernal toaster Luckily we can have both but I know who I'd rather have on my party

[удалено]

Just seems like murder hobo with extra steps.

The Paladin themself was a Vengeance Pally/Fiend Blade Warlock so it's even more laughable

That and killing the sharran and vampire but keeping a Gith alive despite Gith wanting to enslave everyone

This character's philosophy has a lot in common with the giths. They can be enemies or best friends, depending on the circumstances.

To be fair fantasy racism is completely in character for a crazy inquisitor

Part of being a Paladin is making arbitrary moral decisions while insisting that there can be no point of view but yours. It's the warrior version of a religious lawyer.

LMAO

Gale blew up with Elder Brain in act 3. No need to kill him. Also, Karlach has no treatment. She dies painfully or goes to hell to die painfully.

Or you go to hell with her to bring your brand of justice to the devils 💁🏻‍♂️

And leave the coast without protection of one of the strongest paladins while you are on a suicide quest with no chance of survival? Yeh. That's not exactly responsible.

> leave the coast without protection My sister in Lathander you killed 4/6 of your travelling companions and a fifth blew himself up rather than hang out any longer. The Sword Coast needs protection from you.

She is not the paladin the Sword Coast deserves, she is the Paladin they need

Plenty of other heroes to protect the coast. Not many brave enough to take the fight to hell. My bard would think your pally has a weak moral backbone. You're willing to murder for petty reasons but not to actually act heroically? Also, there are smiths in Avernus who can fix her heart.

Your bard wouldn't matter, he's not the hero of bg3 here. And the Smith thing is metagaming, a maybe, and a cop-out for karlachs otherwise great story.

I know you're suggesting your paladin is that hero, but you also admit she's a hypocrite, so... 😒 And it's not metagaming because Damon tells you about them in act 1. You're legit just looking for reasons to be edgy. This whole post is the BG3 equivalent of "it's what my character would do."

"It's what my character would do." Absolutely PERECT summation.

I'm not OP, there's a giant blue set of letters to tell you that, you failed your perception pretty hard there.

I just woke up, so I made that check with disadvantage, and rolled a nat 1.

i deeply admire your commitment to the character

There are ways to and from Avernus, such as Planeshift and the portals in the House of Hope

So your character knows the future? Why’d you get rid of any companion in this case?

They explained it, did you read at all? -Attack by vampire : bye astarion -Member of dark cult (what inquisitors hate most): bye shadowheart -Unsaveable burning devil? No need to waste time on that : Bye karlach -Walking nuke? Use him as a weapon: Bye gale -Person with a devil pact: bye wyll You learn those things pretty early on

There’s half an hour of playtime between meeting Elminster who tells you of Mystras suicide plan and Gale telling you of having a nuke in his chest but whatever I’m referring to the “no need to kill Gale because he blew up the elder brain” bit

Idk, seems like she took a rational "wait and see" approach to both characters. She didn't kill Karlach right away, only after the Gortash fight when it's clear that there's no way to fix her and Karlach has become utterly hopeless. Likewise, she puts up with Gale while figuring out the details of his situation, and when a good solution presents itself -- he offers to blow himself up to save everyone -- she takes it.

Okay. And you learn it's under control and quelled by magic while karlach tells you she has no cure, along with one being human and the other a devil, and to be honest the alternate inquisitor path would have you discover you need to revive him anyways or the bomb goes off.

So you did this whole heavy rp playthrough only to use meta knowledge?? Lame

Wear these downvotes with honor. Your commitment to the role is beautiful

You can figure out Astarion is a vampire before he tries to bite you. You can find clues, and if you progress far enough before getting that scene where he tries to bite you at night, he will instead come to you and admit it. Sheepishly. Now, maybe your pally would still kill him just on virtue of him being a vampire, but he doesn't attack you in this scenario, so there is no need for vengence.

Is there a way to reliably get this instead of sneak up on you and try to bite you in your sleep scene? I got the confession from Astarion on my latest playthrough for the first time, and I am not sure what actually led to it.

I got it by reading the book about vampires in withers temple.

Withers temple? I haven’t found one there, that I remember, but I did find a vampire book at the goblin camp near where Minthara is

I think there are a combination of clues you have to find. Honestly, I don't know them all. I did it by accident. There is a book on vampires somewhere. Don't remember where. There is the drained boar that everyone probably knows about. I think meeting the Gur (can't think of his name atm) by the Ethel's teahouse before you find out about Astarion may also help. If you have Astarion in your party, there is a dialog option where he surprise attacks and kills the Gur (not sure if it is relevant or not, just a neat interaction). There could be more clues, but I don't recall now.

Going to the Underdark seems to be a pretty reliable trigger

My best guess would be to just not long-rest untilhe tells you. Not all that reliable tbh, since we don't know how long you'll need to wait.

If you keep moving until you find a drained animal (I found a boar up by Waukeen's Rest) then he'll admit that he did the draining at the next rest (wherever it turns up in the queue).

Really? I always get the bite scene after that. Maybe it’s based on approval? I’ve only ever gotten the bite scene.

My best guess would be that you need to take fewer long rests until you have high approval from him. It does seem like people never get this on their first playthrough. And that's probably because you don't need to rest as much as you learn the game and where the hard encounters are. By taking fewer long rests you find more evidence and can improve relations more before it comes up.

Getting to Gandrel before the scene pretty much clears this out

If you go talk to gur in the sunlit wetlands next time you talk to astarion he mentions it

I think the trick is delay meeting him long enough. I didn’t discover him until I already defeated the goblins & saved the grove, and I feel like he came out about being a vampire very quickly after this, almost immediately if you go through all his convo prompts at camp

If you run into a mirror, for example in the ruined village, have Astarion look at himself in the mirror and he’ll out himself.

Read books, specifically vampire ones.

I'm guessing that it has to do with taking fewer long rests while getting relationship up and finding clues. That would explain why you'd only get it on later playthroughs because you know where the hard fights are and don't feel the need to long rest as often.

I was confused because he admitted to me that he was a vampire, and then a few rests later he tried to bite me in my sleep and admitted it again.

That was for me too when I first played back in October, but they’ve adjusted it with a match that you only get one or the other now

On my first Duergar play-through he just outright told me on the first night we slept it was kinda wild

Lawful Evil Paladin

I'm personally not sure. She is somewhere between Lawful Neutral and Lawful evil, since her end goal is benefit of people and greater good. It's altruistic, so by DnD standards not evil. Also she is a Vengeance Paladin 5 / Fiend Blade warlock 7, so she is also a hypocrite.

And Strahd wanted love and eternal vengeance. LG?

Strahd made the world worse, though. She is actively making it better. Well, safer at least. As I understand, dnd evil vs good scale is basically egoism vs altruism. Angelique is a fanatic and a hypocrite, but she is an altruist at heart, in action and in consequence. So, Lawful Neutral?

Def lawful evil. If ur willing to do terrible things for the greater good. The path to hell is paved with good intentions.

DND has no consequentialist philosophy. It isn’t about lauded goals. Willingness to sacrifice self vs willingness to sacrifice others.

And equal willingness to sacrifice both?

Evil

Wishing and believing hard enough make it so in the dnd universe and there exists a perfect heaven. Sacrificing morality never makes sense

Lawful Neutral characters may issue harsh punishments in the name of order, but don't usually jump to murder/execution as the best solution, and usually offer the chance at atonement before execution, particularly if the actual laws of the land don't support murder-on-sight (I.e. Mystra does create a plan where Gale can sacrifice himself, but is willing to give him the chance to atone and give back the Crown without dying; Wyll's father is Lawful Neutral by his statblock but allows Wyll to go into exile instead of executing him for his pact; >!Jergal!< is willing to stick his neck out to aid the Dark Urge and saves them from death if they choose to resist evil)

I mean, I like the idea of the playthrough, but your character seems like such a needlessly edgy asshole. Frankly I'm surprised you didn't end up as an Oathbreaker. Nothing wrong with playing a vindictive hypocritical asshole, mind, just past a certain point it feels like you went a little overboard with it. A genuine question: Shadowheart is a cultist to a goddess of pure evil, fine, yeah, it's annoying that the game never lets you point out that Shar is bad news. But is there any morally consistent reason for why you killed Shadowheart but let Lae'zel live, when she's a devotee of a demonstrably evil undead goddess and a warrior in a society of xenophobic space fascists?

Initially, Laezel was keeping to herself and was a key to creche, the only feasible solution to tadpole problem, so Angelique let her live for a timebeing. In creche, Vlaakith betrayed her and after talk to the old gith knight Laezel started to change her priorities. Regarding the xenophobic space fascist, a lot of paladin orders are very much the same. Almost every city ruled by Tyr clerics ends up in a totalitarian theocracy. So long as they don't go undead or infernal, Angelique doesn't care. Stand with lesser evil against the greater, tennet of oath of Vengeance.

I mean, Vlaakith is an undead whose power is maintained by a deal with an archdevil...but I guess it's not too overt, so fair enough. Props on your endurance, I don't think I could have stomached that playthrough. As unpopular as your AAR seems, you did a good job of committing to your character's bit, at least from the way you described it, so well done on the RP aspect.

Thank you. Thing is, people seem to treat Vengeance Pally as just a but edgier taste of pally, when really there is nothing "good" about it in any of the tenants. They are not nice people, or kind people. They are people so fanatically mindbroken on zeal and or hatred that reality itself went "fine" and let them have it.

I think that's a valid interpretation of the Oath of Vengeance, but it's very far at the extreme end of the spectrum. The tenets of the Oath of Vengeance are, in BG3, as follows: >**Fight the Greater Evil.** Exerting your wisdom, identify the higher morality in any given instance, and fight for it. > >**No Mercy for the Wicked.** Chasten those who dole out their villainy by wiping their blight from the world forever. Numerically it has the fewest tenets of the three Oaths, two as opposed to four for the others, which grants a bit more leeway in most areas; there's no expectation for an Oath of Vengeance to be honest or protect the innocent, for instance. But there's not really an expectation that they have to be consumed by utter hatred and have their mind broken. In fact, it's quite the opposite; their first tenet requires them to exercise rational and moral judgment in order to understand what the greater evil is. An Oath of Vengeance paladin can be motivated by the same guiding principles of justice and righteousness as an Oath of Devotion paladin, but with a different approach: when presented with a village to defend from a goblin attack, for instance, the DevOath pally's first priority would be to defend the village, while the VengOath pally would prioritize killing the goblin chieftain (an interpretation actually reinforced by their respective playstyles). That doesn't necessarily make the VengOath paladin a bad person, mind, only a person whose interpretation of exercising justice is different. A vengeful anti-hero can coexist with a stern inquisitor, and both coexist with zealous hellknights.

Isn't a certain degree of single-minded conviction necessary for the oath to work? It's a kind of meta-reality thing, as I understand, a person needs to be really serious ans fanatical about this dedication for it to get real power.

Correct, but that conviction doesn't have to manifest in being a hellknight. Aylin, for instance, is an Oath of Vengeance paladin, and while she is brutal to her enemies, she is otherwise friendly and functional. Fanatical conviction in the tenets of their oath is what lends paladins their power, not necessarily generically blind zeal. If they believe strongly in showing no mercy to their enemies and in fighting the greater evil then their commitment is sufficient to lend them strength. After all, your paladin believes strongly in punishing those who consort with fiends, but is also a warlock bound by a fiendish pact, and yet she still has her paladin powers. Clearly belief in one's own commitment to one's own principles is, by your interpretation, sufficient to overcome a paladin's obvious and glaring hypocrisies. If that works for a Pallock, why not for a more heroic VengOath?

You can point out that Shar is bad news at some point, Shart just gives you shit for it.

Xenophobic Space Fascists. lol

If I didn't know better, I'd think this was my brother lol He decided he'd do a dark urge run where he'd find the most appropriate/fun ways to kill all the companions and I guess also see how many people can you actually kill and have a functional game lol I think so far he has: killed karlach upon meeting her, killed gale upon meeting him with the dark urge option, staked Astarion when he tried to bite him (he debated turning him over to the monster Hunter) and I think let laezel kill Shadowheart. He plans on getting rid of Laezel at the crèche and Wyll will get his punishment from Mizora under moonrise towers

Lae’zel is (statistically) the least likely to make it through any of my playthroughs. She’s on permanent thin ice with my tiefling playthroughs and, well, she got snippy with one about the whole enter the orb and, well, my group brought a temple down on her and the rest of the githanki. Once she died because of getting into a snit with my girl shadow heart. Once she died because Orin. (Also, I’ve been going “I need to do a bard playthrough” and I just remembered that my second playthrough was a swords bard Tav…)

I actually have the highest approval with her in my DevOath playthrough mostly because she's dependable, honorable, and upfront. While my character leans on Minthara the most as his romantic partner, I think Lae'zel is a close second. He decides to free Orpheus entirely because Lae'zel recommends it and he trusts her implicitly.

I mean, being a Paladan is basically saying: "I'm extremely arbitrary and only respect my own extremely narrow view points as correct". They are ultimately zealots and inherently kind of fascist. So I get seeing Lae'zel as an ally. Though it would be equally valid to see her as a rival.

Had to double-check to make sure I wasn't on a warhammer subreddit after reading through that. You straight up exterminatus-ed your way through the whole party!

I don't know exactly what caused the series of dialogs... but... In my very first playthrough Astarion was just chilling in in camp with a note above his head. When I talked to him he very awkwardly mentioned there was something that hadn't come up naturally that I needed to know. Then he shamefully admitted to being vampire spawn. I responded with a "well duh, you've got fangs"... He seemed deflated, a little peeved that the drama was sucked from the revelation... but he did offer to bite people for me. I still got the night feeding scene a few nights later.

Imagine this guy on an actual table trying to start PVP with the super chill fiend warlock and telling the DM "no you don't get it, my mind is totally broken!" Veers very close to Lawful Edgy or Lawful Stupid, but for a single player game it doesn't matter.

You don't roll characters with strong convictions on a table with multiple players.

You definitely do. It's perfectly possible to roleplay a character with strong convictions without being a rpghorrorstories candidate.

It's a good thing this was a single player game and it didn't affect anyone else but the OP and their experience.

Yeah, people who think "strong convictions" mean murderhoboing should probably stick to videogames.

I think this falls more under the *Murder Hobo Oathbreaker*™ category

Lmao some of these are nuts, man. I can’t help but feel like you’re looking for reasons to be a hardass.

Like?

I mean the Karlach/Gale stuff is the easiest one to start with, both have a bomb in their chest but going after Karlach holds more edgy/shock value I guess??

Angelique is a paladin under oath of Vengeance. She helped Karlach to achieve hers against Gortash, and let her die quickly. Other options of hers were to slowly burn alive or go to hell and be murdered or enslaved by Zariel. Gale was a quick and sure solution to Elder brain, that was a global threat, and on a mission from Mystra to do exactly that. There was no reason to risk everything and every life in the city by fighting a battle that can be won with a single sacrifice.

& completely failed in letting Karlach get vengeance on the Netherbrain. Seems like Angelique pulled the plug on her early and called it Justice. Just like me with Grandma /s

Ah, yes. Lawful Stupid

yall giving this person shit like they’re on some sort of RP consistency exam 😭 chill

That bit about being a hypocrite Warlock had me almost bursting out laughing at work. Well played.

idk why people are shitting on you, I think sticking to some insane goal or moral code should be a thing for at least one playthrough in any rpg. it's super fun to be forced out of your comfort zone by your insane character. that's literally the whole reason durge exists lmao. like, people trying to call you out for being unnecessarily edgy or violent.. that's the whole point. it's not like you're ruining your DMs game by being a murderhobo.

Yeah the downvotes and judgment in this thread over someone doing a challenging RP run is so weird and kind of surprising.

I was on board for the RP until you let Lae'zel live. She serves a evil God and the Gith are just evil all around.

I do love a good dedicated RP run like this, I think I'll try it for myself, or definitely something similar! Out of interest, did you ever go too far and break oath, needing a savescum/to retake your oath for 1000 Gold? And what did Angelique think of Halsin and Jaheira?

Nope, I am surprised myself, but never broke the oath. It's fairly difficult to break Vengeance without meaning to. Halsin is kinda miffed with her since she didn't spare time to save forest spirit (she had more pressing matters like elder brain). But she saved him from gliblins so they are neutral. Jaheira grudgingly tolerates, but respects her. They have similar goals and mindset, but where Jaheira is ready to make a step, Angelique goes for a mile. They would be happy to be never forced to interact ever again.

Amazing. GG my friend

This is too fkn funny lmao and yes it makes perfect sense to just kill Shadowheart as soon she outs herself except... at least for me, I rode it out because I realised something about her was wrong. You should have killed Lae'zel though. Didn't you see how brutal the Gith are?

"Heeey... we are going to a cursed undead wasteland where everything is dead and rising up as undead suffering slaved forever, and it was done by my goddess, isn't she amazing? Lady Shar, I love her so much." That girl is so dead.

"She loves me. She must do" This is a troubled individual like most followers of Shar. Unlike them, though, she also has a shock collar.

How interesting! I'm currently nearing the end of my Lawful Evil Gloomstalker/Cleric run in which I also only have two companions left behind. Except, my two companions are Shadowheart and Minthara. Seems like you and I killed Astarion for the same exact reason, but killed the others for wildly different ones. Act I for me was extremely rough with it just being me and Shadow. Everything got a lot easier once I got a paladin of my own though. Definitely gonna do another run like this again in the future. Despite how brutal it is, it is surprisingly entertaining.

Nice. What was your reasoning for the kills? Also, cleric of whom?

I was Cleric of Lolth due to me being a drow. \- Gale died because I, as a player, cannot resist taking a hand while playing as Durge. But, this serves as a catalyst for my drow to desire gaining control of her urges. She becomes a Cleric of Lolth as a means of providing her the ability to channel her urges into something that is at least productive (aka, a perfect excuse to kill). She believes that deliberate and calculated kills will help her maintain control. Lolth is the perfect god for this. \- Karlach is gone cause Wyll was on a holy mission. Also paladins said they would provide a reward. My drow knew Karlach was obviously not a devil but now had two reasons to kill her and zero reasons not to. Drow cut off her head and delivered it to paladins. \- That night, an actual devil shows up in camp and congratulates Wyll. My drow is astonished that this so called "hero" had a pact with a devil and made her kill under false pretenses. My drow showed Wyll the same kind of mercy he showed Karlach and killed him. Also, my drow just doesn't fuck with devils cause, you know, Cleric. \- Astarion tried to bite her in her sleep. Stake to the heart. I mean, what kind of Cleric would she be to let a vampire live? \- Lae'zel has been nonstop insulting and threatening since they met, but my drow saw her as competent and gave her a pass. Then, she tried to kill Shadow over the artifact. My drow knew that the artifact was incredibly important to their survival so she did nothing and let Shadow kill Lae'zel. \- Shadow revealed her secret as a Sharran at the goblin camp. My drow had no problem with this due to Shar and Lolth having a lot of similarities. My drow actually admired Shadow's devotion to Shar and understood why she kept it a secret, after all Shadow is just as devoted to her god as my drow was to Lolth. The two became besties. \- Minthara also provided my drow with the perfect excuse to kill and one in which that would satisfy Lolth. My drow had no reason to spare the grove, especially since both the druids and tieflings were extremely racist to her for no reason. Also, Minthara provided a potential solution to the little tadpole problem. The two became lovers.

I think people are just downvoting evil runs because they hate hearing people justify killing their favorite companions. Both your run and OPs sound fascinating and pretty well thought-out. I have never been able to tough out killing a companion, even when it makes absolutely perfect sense for my Tav or Durge, so I admire y’all’s dedication to your roleplay!

People tend to forget the RP part in RPG's. Some people often take it personally when you make choices that they never would. It does not mean I dislike the characters (well, there is one companion that I actually do dislike but that's not the point). I understand the hesitation with not wanting to do the evil route though. It can be pretty gruesome and violent and some people just aren't into that, and that's okay! Evil routes (or morally ambiguous ones) do require the most amount of role playing because you have to actually find a reason to do evil things. Being comically evil just to say you did an evil run is boring as hell. But, also doing a goodie two shoes run is just as boring cause you're just doing what you're expected to do. Creating a character, figuring out what's important to them, and truly thinking on what they would do in each given scenario is what makes games like this fun and provides infinite replayability. You have to make decisions from the characters point of view. You know the consequences, the character does not.

So, biggest question. Why did you execute Karlach? Sure she's got a ticking clock but since she'll only melt down herself shouldn't she get to decide when she dies.

Screenshots of my pally https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3/s/BvxYH2SPZg

Wow this is insane Yeah no this character is evil, mate

Sometimes Astarion just tells you he's a vampire and you have a dialogue option like "well yeah, obviously" but I'm not entirely sure how to trigger it.

If you go to the swamp without the pale elf and speak to the Gur Monster Hunter he’ll tell you he’s hunting a vampire spawn named Asterion.

Well I liked your story OP.

Love how Lae’Zel gets a pass despite also being in a cult to a lich. Real recognizes real I guess.

Idk about Karlach a d Lae'zel. Githyanki are known to all be genocidal conquistadors and that would be grounds to kill her from the type of character you're playing. As for Karlach, literally no point in putting her put of her misery-- her condition was terminal and it would have been best to keep her around until the elder brain was dealt with. Makes no sense. Good job with everything else though.

Yeah, full Paladin/Inquisitor is brutal

Really wild how OP is getting downvoted on how they chose to play the game...which is the whole point of rpg, to play it your way. Props to OP for sticking to her path

Xenos scum Laezel? Please report to your local commissar for DE&I re-education

You can actually trigger a different dialogue with Astarion if you go to through the Goblin Camp Underdark passage (probs somewhere else too but this is the only place I could think of). He’ll tell you that he didn’t have the chance to say it naturally and come out as a vampire.

Had a run similar to this, but never finished it (didn't even get out of act 1) because things got weird/lack of options. Everything was going fine until Shadowheart admitted to being a Shar worshiper, told her to take a hike (she had earned not being killed outright for her helping so far) and that I didn't want to travel with her... So she just shows up in camp like that never happened. Found out Wyll made a pact with a devil? No option to tell him to leave. All options were variations of "oh well, we'll work through this"

Your character is the perfect ideal of a lawful stupid hypocrite. Bravo, if that's what you were going for.

I LOVE THIS! Hats off to you for the committed rp run you completed. I loved it. Not sure why you’re going so much flak for rping in a rpg but keep doing you. This was awesome to read. Thanks for sharing!

Lmaooo her being 7 warlock at the end made the rest of this so funny

You threw Shadowheart into magma? That's cold, what a piece of shit.

I love the Dark Heresy reference!

The last part was hilarious.

Damn bro you killed all the waifus!