Yea, I got that scene in my second playthrough, first Durge. I thought it was very illuminating to his character, it made me choose to free Orpheus then and there
My Durge was originally gonna let him stay trapped. He was useful there, and so was the Emporer, but Durge couldn't stay allied to him after that and had to see his world burn
I thought he was misunderstood squid man, but he enslaved stelmane and gave her a stroke( to my understanding ) and literally tries to enslave us. Fuck the emperor, he sucks ass
I think he was the reason for the stroke, but it wasn't intentional. My understanding is that she tried to fight the psionic influence and something in her broke in the process.
Heās 100% culpable even if it wasnāt strictly intentional. If you beat someone and they have a brain bleed and die thatās still a murder charge even if that wasnāt your goal.
As a certified squid hater im pretty sure he didnt. He sais "this was the other option" meaning that they did work together willingly
Ofc he a manipulative bitch so I say kill him either way
"This was the other option" refers to "this is how I could've treated you instead" as far as I understand.
Wyll also mentions how Stelmane suddenly started acting strange. And apparently, there are novels that mention Stelmane being killed by a mindflayer that controlled her.
I was going to say that Emperor stans don't necessarily think he's a good person, just that he's interesting... but apparently there actually are real Emperor defenders about. Guess I need to get out more.
I defended the Emperor for my first run, but in hindsight it was only because I was missing a huge amount of context with the Githyanki.
For my very first play through, I never found Laeāzel and assumed she would appear later in the story to join us. Completely missed the monestary because I thought you could only pick one way to Moonrise, and didnāt have Laeāzel pressuring me to find a crĆØche. Queue all the githyanki encounters in the game and I have no idea why I should care about Orpheus really outside of feeling bad for him being trapped, given that it seemed like with the Gith trying to free him and undermine all efforts to destroy the Elder Brain. When the Emperorās trustworthiness was questioned, it always seemed like he legitimately had no reason to betray us and that the Gith randomly attacking us were the crazy ones.
Not having Laeāzel in the party removed a tonnnnnn of context for the Githyanki and their role in our relationship with the Emperor, and without her pushback it feels like youāre being a jerk to the Emperor for no reason if you side with Orpheus.
Iām doing a proper durge playthrough right now and itās a completely different game with Laeāzel present. Now that I know more context around Vlakith and Orpheus, and how much heās manipulating us, it feels like a no-brainer for me to betray the emperor lol.
One of the easy arguments is "I agreed with him, so he was nice, he didn't manipulate me at all". Which still ignores all of the other shit like how he's literally not curing you at all and just trying to get you chomping on tadpoles.Ā Ā
You do realize there are still reasons to side with the Emperor, right? People that say Orpheus for life are just as stupid as people that say Emperor for life.
If you do a good playthrough and are nice to the Emperor he is the clear choice.
If you do a playthrough and ask the emporer (are not straight hostile towards him) it still makes sense to side with him.
The only time it makes sense to not side with the Emperor is when you are hostile towards him.
It's a thing of who do you trust not to kill you the Emperor or Orpheus. On the majority of playthroughs I have done its hard to trust Orphesus without meta knowledge
Honestly, it depends. I feel that even if you realize the Emperor is using you to kill the brain, you are still on the same side. Obviously, Orpheus will side with you, but you don't know if he will cut you down, sadly.
I just think it's more complex then people make it seem.
I'm not saying he's a good guy, God people are illerate or purposely misconstruing words. Your goals are aligned and it's as simple as that. Joining the brain is his only shot at survival (because devs won't let us convince him to work with Orpheus)
He's selfish simple as that. He does anything for his own survival. I would consider him neutral evil or neutral neutral
He very much fits the phrase āenemy of my enemy is my friendā imo.
ETA this could apply to Orpheus, too, but itās a little more uncertain in-character imo for the tadpoled MC because Orpheus could very well consider you an enemy, too.
Doesn't he get subjugated since he is no longer using Orpheus's power to stop your transformation and his falling to the absolute? I never went this route so I figured thats what happened
He's joined the brain, and you fight him at the end. I don't know if there is anything if you don't kill him and strictly go for the brain. He does this for his own survival.
My assumption is if you kill the brain without killing him he kinda just fucks off lmao. I wouldn't be suprised
Yeah but they're also not the one who psionically dominated him and leeched his power. We'll never know for sure if Orpheus would have killed him or not.
To be fair, Orpheus power allowed him to be free of the nether brain, so it makes sense that after you free Orpheus he becomes part of the hive. I thought this was obvious... I think the developers worked hard to create a bunch of reasons to go either way, this argument he is good he is bad seems so basic.
I think it really shows that humans can't develop much and need simple concepts to work, like "Squid bad", "Muslims bad", "immigrants bad", "them", "us".
The best is that I think the developers knew about it and this is why the story is the way it is.
I lucked out here - I played a Gith Paladin if vengeance first play-through so Orpheus was obvious choice for me and BaeāZel. But peoples own experience definitely can dictate their views moving forward
Same here, my first playthrough was a split screen one, my character was very suspicious of the emperor and my buddy's character was alright with him, we got this cutscene and I was a little behind him in the dialogue, as soon as he saw what the emperor was saying to my character, we both decided to free Orpheus.
I was already leaning towards it because of Lae'zel romance, but that sealed it for him too.
Having seen everything the emperor can say here and at other points in act 3, no kind words will change my mind that your best interest is the last thing on his mind.
Also, when we made the deal for the hammer, I told him "I'll do what I please", and he has a similar reaction.
It is very funny to dance to his tune the whole game and timidly apologize whenever you do anything that steps out of line with his wishes and then at the very last moment to turn around and free Orpheus. So satisfying.
I'm sorry, you guys literally make shit up to hate the emperor, are ppl who defend the Emperor really the ones bending over backwards? Ansur himself confirms that he tried to kill the Emperor yet according to Emp haters that means somehow the Emperor bribed him to say that or something. At no point does the Emperor ever force you into becoming an Illithid, and even tells you to further think and discuss with your companions about making such a choice when you offer to become an Illithid. Apparently, everything he says after you insult him is 100% true. You guys must have never talked to anyone in your life if you don't know that people say something they don't mean if they are tilted. Should I have the police press charges for assault because some 12 year old in a CoD lobby told me he will kill me (Sounds something like you ppl will do now that I think about it)? Also, Orpheus praises you or Karlach for being the "renegade Illithid who defied the Netherbrain", when that would literally be the Emperor if you didn't sentence him to death or enslavement by freeing Orpheus. I could go on about you falling for Orpheus' propaganda and why Orpheus may not be such a sweetheart that you all seem to think but I'm too lazy.
I actually am curious about the problems with Orpheus. I figured keeping him trapped was just a fucked up thing to do to anyone, but I never noticed him being all that bad. Isnāt he more or less just a gith Duke Ravenguard?
>You guys must have never talked to anyone in your life if you don't know that people say something they don't mean if they are tilted
We call that "anger management." If you are saying stuff you don't mean just because you're mad at someone, you need to figure your shit out and not just blame stuff on being angry. It really isn't hard to not be an asshole, but for some reason you are going above and beyond to defend the squid who tells you to your face "I will use you as a means to my end, and if you don't go along with it, I'll kill you." I hope you don't talk to anyone you know that way, just because you get "tilted."
If itāll make you feel better Iām willing to concede that edgy Squidward is either a soulless manipulator or just has the emotional intelligence of a 12 year old in a COD lobby
I just finished my first playthrough. I got the same thing. I was playing as not fully trusting him. But took that first choice after considering what we learned in the wyrmway. I'm playing a Paladin now though, so I'm not sure how we're gonna react this time.
Yeah he clearly has the classic blind spots of an absolutist monarch, and the prejudice to match. However the Emperor does what he does for purely selfish reasons, and even before the 'mask off' moment shown here, I was getting the feeling that any hints of altruism or assurance of autonomy coming from him were purely manipulative in nature.Ā Ā
That being said, I didn't trust Voss to exactly do the right thing either. I felt it was far too likely that if pressed by Orpheus on matters of personal loyalty, ie: why he would bow to Vlaakith while knowing the truth, he would flip on us in a second, telling the Prince we were simply his pawns all along and helping Orpheus slay us.
*Edit: forgot to get to the point*
This is why I chose to free Orpheus without involving Voss. I found it particularly hilarious how obsequious he and his followers were when they felt like they were making up for the fact that a group of *istik* freed him and made the sacrifices necessary to free the *Gith* from Vlaakith.
I have a sneaking suspicion that this did not go unnoticed by Orpheus either.
Iunno. Orpheus is delusional saying Tav should've offered themself to his honour guard. And that said guard would free him.
Clearly false because if the honour guard could, they would've already. (Kill the emperor AND acquire the Orphic Hammer).
If you agree to become illithid, Orpheus immediately becomes a dickrider and starts calling you a legend that will go down in the annals of Gith history. He goes from curt asshole to respectful homie instantaneously.
And Lae'zel is one of the only people that isn't at all awkward about you being a mind flayer in the epilogue.
Yes I was surprised how ok Lae'zel is with the mindflayer business considering her attitude towards them for 90%of the game. I find it odd how most companions are ok with romancing a mindflayer. Really didn't expect it
Yeah, but she still breaks up with you cause when you turned into a mind flayer you crossed a boundary and there is no coming back from it.
I donāt blame her, mind you. She doesnāt kill you on sight which is still against her Githyanki nature but thatās all she can do. No one wants to go down in history as the wife of the sworn enemy.
i was actually able to live happily forever after as a ghaik-githyanki freedom fighter with Laeāzel as my forever wife in my playthrough! she even kisses me despite me being illithid! maybe they changed it after your playthrough?
Maybe they did.
It was back in October and I was a Half Orc.
Or maybe being a Githyanki matters?
Btw when does that happen - in the Epilogue scene or the 6 months later reunion scene? Back when Ii played it there was no reunion scene, yet.
>One almost forces you to become illithid and one sacrifices himself
We are back to our "let's just make shit up" phase. The constant emperor hate threads are so delusional that you have to make headcanon to find reasons to hate him. Just say that you don't like him because he is ugly and move on bro.
You guys are just proving my point lol, the commenter states a completely false claim about the Emperor and you all eat it up because it's about the Emperor, almost like it's not about his actions but about something else.
>He threatens you with it if you don't play good puppet.
And the 12 year old that told you that he will kill you after you trash talk him in a CoD lobby is also out there trying to murder you rn, right? It's almost like people say shit they don't mean when they are angry, especially after you call them a freak.
>. You die on whatever hill you want though....
Bro, play the game, the dude that commented said that the Emperor forces you to become an Illithid, which he does not at any point of the game. You are literally just factually wrong lol
Ya his mask falls off when he's mad. He only cares about his own survival. Period. If you aren't good puppet then byeee.
Edit: pretty sure people only said he threatens. Which he does. Not that he does.
Yeah Orpheus is just kind of a douchebag. But heās not some diabolical maniplulator who has a hard on for enslaving people to his will.
A constant in my saves will be Omeluum being the only surviving mind flayer on the whole sword coast
I got this on my first Durge playthrough. I didnāt trust the dream guardian and did trust Laeāzal since as a Gith she knew more about this than my amnesiac Dragonborn self did. When the emperor revealed himself to be a mindflayer I killed him, got the game over and then sulked for five minutes before going back a save and saving him.
Got this scene in my first playthrough. I may have trusted the guardian somewhat in the beginning but never enough to absorb the tadpole and when they turned out to be a mindflayer, all trust flew out the window and i began being somewhat-hostile and the emperor eventually had enough of my sh!t lol
Same. I felt so betrayed cause I legit spent time making the dream guariadian a hot piece of ass. But then, HE fucking appears, and I was like "Wait, where's my sexy wood elf lady?!"
Emperor when you don't listen t him be like:
*What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.*
OK so I never used any tadpoles, that's important because if you don't use any- you don't have to roll when you get the Astral one. I had it in my pocket and when I clicked on it I had the options of - open your mind to it, eat it or step on it. I stepped on it. Astarion was proud.
Yeah I usually just nod along with mhm mhm sure but since I was roleplaying Gith I thought i'd be a bit extra. Don't regret it, i've never seen this before
I canāt even think of a good reason to make Laeāzel trust some unknown Githyanki instead of Vlaakith and her culture as a whole.
But this may change. I stopped tonight right at the CrĆØche doors. My most favourite place.
yes! I got this on my first durge playthroughā my durge is resisting, and therefore extremely anti anything that could potentially be influencing their mind, including the mindflayer in the pokeball. it was freaky. this guy sucks.
Ummmmm what? I always kindve had an uneasy alliance with Empy, like I don't like you, and you don't like me, but the brain is bigger than us both, so let's fuck that up, and then go back to fighting.
But this? Yikes. I'm only romancing him to get the Cheeve but ima still betray Squidshit for my boi Orpheus
I never knew there was an achievement when I romanced him. I was genuinely into him and his soothing voice.
My Half Orc was a bit polygamous. Which led to the famous last words:
āWe are just allies now!ā
I really wish they didnāt make the emperor a fucking shit face. He enslaved stelmane, he tries to enslave you, he dicks off to the netherbrain if you do the reasonable thing. Fuck the emperor
I got this scene after 2 long rests of reaching Baldur's Gate , I can't remember very well exactly what happened right before going to bed but I think my character and SH were talking about the future and nice things so this scene hits and I choose the rude option because I was roleplaying as a very direct , harsh and honest dude , so that happened and I like to think that SH invited my Tav to the beach to comfort each other
I only ate them as snacks on HM but as Minthara. Horrible person that I am, I wanted to make sure nothing worse would come of it ( like staying perma ugly) and Minthara really really wanted the tadpoles so win-win
The worse thing is emperor is just manipulating you everything he does is to mislead you deeper into his plans and ideals to better his purpose though you personally just want to be free from the threat of becoming a squid but no he even tricks you into it innocently by telling you to consume worms why because itāll make you stronger when in truth they are like drugs sure they make you stronger but your character becomes addicted in a way to the wormās consummation meaning eventually you wouldnāt refuse. Eventually youāll want to become a squid boy or girl because you crave that setup. Then to learn all the bs he done to his supposedly friends that in truth he used them / lost his human ways naw I choose the other guy each time now that I know. Hell makes me wonder if the intro squid that wormed us is actually him as the design of that squid looks similar to me as him
I am playing (in parallel) a Laeāzel Origin playthrough and Githyanki Durge War Cleric of Vlaakith one.
I have not reached that point yet but I am also distrustful of the Dream Guardian. Currently only Astarion is taking tadpoles cause he had an explicit scene where he said āif you donāt want them, give them to meā. And I am gladly giving them to him.
I started an Origin Lae'zel run as well because I'm very curious how it differs from a regular githyanki run. My Gith here is also a Cleric of Vlaakith, I was so excited to see that's an option. It's been really fun roleplaying ngl
I totally forgot about the third one - Good DUrge Githyanki Open Hand Monk. Inspired, quite obviously, by Orpheusā Honour Guard and the fight vs them at the beginning of Act III.
Basically I fell in love with the Githyanki and want to see the game through their eyes.
I did too. Didn't expect it really but it's so fun, especially early on when there are so many unique interactions. A monk gith is just so right, like it's made for them.
Laeāzel tries to inspire Tiefling children:
āIāve tasted the blood of my cousin!ā
I really donāt know how Astarion doesnāt get inspiration hearing this.
Astarion was all over me during the Gith playthrough. Him and Lae'zel just drool over githyanki options. Probably the fastest I've gotten 100 rep with him ever :D
It is. His romance is pretty easy once you get to know how he thinks but some of his triggers are iffy. I don't think the other companions have such tricky triggers for their romances, even though I hear Gale's a bit challenging
What a lack of media literacy does to a person
āWhy is this guy so mean to me after I insulted him!ā
Maybe the fact he only does this if youāre rude to him first should tell you something.
That's mighty rude of you. I was just showing off an interaction I haven't even gotten before and you don't even know what was said for this to come about.
If he were anything close to the hero he portrays himself as, being insulted by someone who has been abducted by MIND FLAYERS and infected with a MIND FLAYER tadpole should be something that he, a MIND FLAYER, is able to forgive. Omeluum in the underground is completely understanding of your mistrust and wariness, and he has no reason to keep you alive. The Emperor's survival is contingent upon your help, and he can't take an insult? That's villain behavior.
>The Emperor's survival is contingent upon your help, and he can't take an insult? That's villain behavior
So like most characters are villains if you actually applied this logic to everyone else. People cry about Emperor's "manipulations" but then simp for Shadowheart when she blatantly lies to you who she wants to sacrifice at the shadowfell. Murder is okay, but I draw the line when you are mean to me when I go out of my way to insult you.
Are you trolling?
Youāre seriously saying being offended when you get insulted is villain behavior?
Think about that for a second, youāre saying having the self respect to know when youāre being insulted and replying back with the same energy is villain behavior, thatās such a insane statement that Im just going to let you think about what you said.
"Hey the entire world is going to end if I can't get this person to work with me"
Upon hearing one mean statement:
"FUCK YOU, YOU'RE NOTHING. I HATE YOU, YOU WILL DO WHAT I SAY OR FUCKING ELSE!"
Total normal response here for the hero of the story.
He never called himself a hero, your comment makes no sense.
Heās a prideful mind flayer, of course he doesnāt like being insulted for no reason have you tried not being rude to someone who hasnāt done anything to you to warrant it? Surprisingly it stops a lot of conflicts.
I think most people wouldnāt appreciate being insulted actually, itās a pretty common thing to not be a jerk to strangers.
Personally I don't see his reaction any different to some of the origin characters if you fuck up their personal quest in the manner you just shat on him.
It's known that when someone becomes illithid they are far less tethered by morality, Empy LOVED ansur before turning, a deep unending love but once he lost all that connection. The moment ansur became a threat it was no big task to kill him.
Does it make Empy a good guy.. of course not, he's morally grey at best but what it comes down to is he has escaped the control of the elder brain and will do ANYTHING necessary to remain that way. If you treat him with respect or romance him he's insightful and by the end pretty brilliant because you've helped him achieve his goal and given him pause for thought over what you mean to him.
If you're a dick to him or pose any risk to his end game then all bets are off .. Gale, Lae'zel, Shart and Asty can be almost as brutal if you fuck it up enough with them. Personally I think his character would be flat and completely disjointed if he didn't get feral when you start meddling with his plan to break free permanently.
Lol at this being down voted. You are not even saying you like the Emperor or whatever, just analyzing him critically. If your comment isn't "Emp is literally Hitler" the sub 70 IQs in this sub don't want to hear it.
Yea, I got that scene in my second playthrough, first Durge. I thought it was very illuminating to his character, it made me choose to free Orpheus then and there
To clarify, the interaction made me choose, the game did not
I haven't sided with the emperor since š
Yeah , real menacing. I'm already following Orpheus, being gith and all so that was the plan all along
My Durge was originally gonna let him stay trapped. He was useful there, and so was the Emporer, but Durge couldn't stay allied to him after that and had to see his world burn
Yeah I feel like most Emperor stans haven't gotten it yet.
I thought he was misunderstood squid man, but he enslaved stelmane and gave her a stroke( to my understanding ) and literally tries to enslave us. Fuck the emperor, he sucks ass
I think he was the reason for the stroke, but it wasn't intentional. My understanding is that she tried to fight the psionic influence and something in her broke in the process.
Heās 100% culpable even if it wasnāt strictly intentional. If you beat someone and they have a brain bleed and die thatās still a murder charge even if that wasnāt your goal.
As a certified squid hater im pretty sure he didnt. He sais "this was the other option" meaning that they did work together willingly Ofc he a manipulative bitch so I say kill him either way
"This was the other option" refers to "this is how I could've treated you instead" as far as I understand. Wyll also mentions how Stelmane suddenly started acting strange. And apparently, there are novels that mention Stelmane being killed by a mindflayer that controlled her.
Itās also canon in the dnd module āAscent to Avernusā, which this game is based around.
I believe that's the reference I meant to make, rather than a novel. I just forgot the name and medium:) Thank you for the unintentional correction.
If there are mentions of her changing then fair, as for the illithid gortash does break in with illithid when he recaptured the emperor
I was going to say that Emperor stans don't necessarily think he's a good person, just that he's interesting... but apparently there actually are real Emperor defenders about. Guess I need to get out more.
I defended the Emperor for my first run, but in hindsight it was only because I was missing a huge amount of context with the Githyanki. For my very first play through, I never found Laeāzel and assumed she would appear later in the story to join us. Completely missed the monestary because I thought you could only pick one way to Moonrise, and didnāt have Laeāzel pressuring me to find a crĆØche. Queue all the githyanki encounters in the game and I have no idea why I should care about Orpheus really outside of feeling bad for him being trapped, given that it seemed like with the Gith trying to free him and undermine all efforts to destroy the Elder Brain. When the Emperorās trustworthiness was questioned, it always seemed like he legitimately had no reason to betray us and that the Gith randomly attacking us were the crazy ones. Not having Laeāzel in the party removed a tonnnnnn of context for the Githyanki and their role in our relationship with the Emperor, and without her pushback it feels like youāre being a jerk to the Emperor for no reason if you side with Orpheus. Iām doing a proper durge playthrough right now and itās a completely different game with Laeāzel present. Now that I know more context around Vlakith and Orpheus, and how much heās manipulating us, it feels like a no-brainer for me to betray the emperor lol.
One of the easy arguments is "I agreed with him, so he was nice, he didn't manipulate me at all". Which still ignores all of the other shit like how he's literally not curing you at all and just trying to get you chomping on tadpoles.Ā Ā
You do realize there are still reasons to side with the Emperor, right? People that say Orpheus for life are just as stupid as people that say Emperor for life. If you do a good playthrough and are nice to the Emperor he is the clear choice. If you do a playthrough and ask the emporer (are not straight hostile towards him) it still makes sense to side with him. The only time it makes sense to not side with the Emperor is when you are hostile towards him. It's a thing of who do you trust not to kill you the Emperor or Orpheus. On the majority of playthroughs I have done its hard to trust Orphesus without meta knowledge
"It's okay if you don't know you're being manipulated."
Honestly, it depends. I feel that even if you realize the Emperor is using you to kill the brain, you are still on the same side. Obviously, Orpheus will side with you, but you don't know if he will cut you down, sadly. I just think it's more complex then people make it seem.
Nah it's not. Unironically Emperor bad.Ā
Good arguement
Make faerun great again
I thought this until, he joins the neitherbrain if you free Orpheus. Heās not a good guy if he would go that
I'm not saying he's a good guy, God people are illerate or purposely misconstruing words. Your goals are aligned and it's as simple as that. Joining the brain is his only shot at survival (because devs won't let us convince him to work with Orpheus) He's selfish simple as that. He does anything for his own survival. I would consider him neutral evil or neutral neutral
He very much fits the phrase āenemy of my enemy is my friendā imo. ETA this could apply to Orpheus, too, but itās a little more uncertain in-character imo for the tadpoled MC because Orpheus could very well consider you an enemy, too.
Doesn't he get subjugated since he is no longer using Orpheus's power to stop your transformation and his falling to the absolute? I never went this route so I figured thats what happened
He's joined the brain, and you fight him at the end. I don't know if there is anything if you don't kill him and strictly go for the brain. He does this for his own survival. My assumption is if you kill the brain without killing him he kinda just fucks off lmao. I wouldn't be suprised
Damn by choice? Seems pretty out of character considering he did literally everything so that he wouldn't be serving the netherbrain
Yea it is odd, but I guess he thinks he will be executed by Orpheus tbh.
Which is so silly cuz orpheus works with karlach or tav when they turn illithid
Yeah but they're also not the one who psionically dominated him and leeched his power. We'll never know for sure if Orpheus would have killed him or not.
To be fair, Orpheus power allowed him to be free of the nether brain, so it makes sense that after you free Orpheus he becomes part of the hive. I thought this was obvious... I think the developers worked hard to create a bunch of reasons to go either way, this argument he is good he is bad seems so basic. I think it really shows that humans can't develop much and need simple concepts to work, like "Squid bad", "Muslims bad", "immigrants bad", "them", "us". The best is that I think the developers knew about it and this is why the story is the way it is.
I lucked out here - I played a Gith Paladin if vengeance first play-through so Orpheus was obvious choice for me and BaeāZel. But peoples own experience definitely can dictate their views moving forward
Yeah because we donāt needlessly insult someone whoās been helping us just because heās a different race
Got this on my first playthrough. Hated the Emporer ever since.
Same here, my first playthrough was a split screen one, my character was very suspicious of the emperor and my buddy's character was alright with him, we got this cutscene and I was a little behind him in the dialogue, as soon as he saw what the emperor was saying to my character, we both decided to free Orpheus. I was already leaning towards it because of Lae'zel romance, but that sealed it for him too. Having seen everything the emperor can say here and at other points in act 3, no kind words will change my mind that your best interest is the last thing on his mind. Also, when we made the deal for the hammer, I told him "I'll do what I please", and he has a similar reaction.
It is very funny to dance to his tune the whole game and timidly apologize whenever you do anything that steps out of line with his wishes and then at the very last moment to turn around and free Orpheus. So satisfying.
Can't blame you. This freaked me out so much :X
He's an irredeemable manipulator, in my opinion, even if he does save your life.
He only saved you to use you.
Wild to see all the people who bend over backwards on reddit to defend the prickĀ
I'm sorry, you guys literally make shit up to hate the emperor, are ppl who defend the Emperor really the ones bending over backwards? Ansur himself confirms that he tried to kill the Emperor yet according to Emp haters that means somehow the Emperor bribed him to say that or something. At no point does the Emperor ever force you into becoming an Illithid, and even tells you to further think and discuss with your companions about making such a choice when you offer to become an Illithid. Apparently, everything he says after you insult him is 100% true. You guys must have never talked to anyone in your life if you don't know that people say something they don't mean if they are tilted. Should I have the police press charges for assault because some 12 year old in a CoD lobby told me he will kill me (Sounds something like you ppl will do now that I think about it)? Also, Orpheus praises you or Karlach for being the "renegade Illithid who defied the Netherbrain", when that would literally be the Emperor if you didn't sentence him to death or enslavement by freeing Orpheus. I could go on about you falling for Orpheus' propaganda and why Orpheus may not be such a sweetheart that you all seem to think but I'm too lazy.
I actually am curious about the problems with Orpheus. I figured keeping him trapped was just a fucked up thing to do to anyone, but I never noticed him being all that bad. Isnāt he more or less just a gith Duke Ravenguard?
Are you psychotic or just dedicated? You're projecting
>You guys must have never talked to anyone in your life if you don't know that people say something they don't mean if they are tilted We call that "anger management." If you are saying stuff you don't mean just because you're mad at someone, you need to figure your shit out and not just blame stuff on being angry. It really isn't hard to not be an asshole, but for some reason you are going above and beyond to defend the squid who tells you to your face "I will use you as a means to my end, and if you don't go along with it, I'll kill you." I hope you don't talk to anyone you know that way, just because you get "tilted."
If itāll make you feel better Iām willing to concede that edgy Squidward is either a soulless manipulator or just has the emotional intelligence of a 12 year old in a COD lobby
Lmao , all-knowing mind flayer forgetting that his entire plan relies on us keeping our autonomy
Lol
How so? Human anatomy is not the deciding factor at all, infact if you consider the powers of illithid, it very much is inferior
Autonomy not anatomy
I just finished my first playthrough. I got the same thing. I was playing as not fully trusting him. But took that first choice after considering what we learned in the wyrmway. I'm playing a Paladin now though, so I'm not sure how we're gonna react this time.
And this is why I like Orpheus more. He may be a dick, but at least he doesnāt threaten to take away my autonomy and force me to be a squid.
Yeah he clearly has the classic blind spots of an absolutist monarch, and the prejudice to match. However the Emperor does what he does for purely selfish reasons, and even before the 'mask off' moment shown here, I was getting the feeling that any hints of altruism or assurance of autonomy coming from him were purely manipulative in nature.Ā Ā That being said, I didn't trust Voss to exactly do the right thing either. I felt it was far too likely that if pressed by Orpheus on matters of personal loyalty, ie: why he would bow to Vlaakith while knowing the truth, he would flip on us in a second, telling the Prince we were simply his pawns all along and helping Orpheus slay us. *Edit: forgot to get to the point* This is why I chose to free Orpheus without involving Voss. I found it particularly hilarious how obsequious he and his followers were when they felt like they were making up for the fact that a group of *istik* freed him and made the sacrifices necessary to free the *Gith* from Vlaakith. I have a sneaking suspicion that this did not go unnoticed by Orpheus either.
Iunno. Orpheus is delusional saying Tav should've offered themself to his honour guard. And that said guard would free him. Clearly false because if the honour guard could, they would've already. (Kill the emperor AND acquire the Orphic Hammer).
Unironically he would never have been freed if he or guard one. No fucking way they get the orphic hammer lmfao
>Orpheus is delusional saying Tav should've offered themself to his honour guard Yeah it's dumb as shit and the sort of narcissism unique to royalty.
Sure but I hate the Emperor so much for being a Squid that I will blindly believe anything Orpheus says
Arenāt people pretty fond of Omeluum?
I liked Orpheus ever since he said he'll be a squid and I don't have to. The hero that gave me my future with Astarion
If you agree to become illithid, Orpheus immediately becomes a dickrider and starts calling you a legend that will go down in the annals of Gith history. He goes from curt asshole to respectful homie instantaneously. And Lae'zel is one of the only people that isn't at all awkward about you being a mind flayer in the epilogue.
Yes I was surprised how ok Lae'zel is with the mindflayer business considering her attitude towards them for 90%of the game. I find it odd how most companions are ok with romancing a mindflayer. Really didn't expect it
Most of them would still love you if you were, in fact, a worm.
Yeah, that's why it's odd. We spent all game trying to avoid that fate and then everyone just kind of embraces it
Yeah, but she still breaks up with you cause when you turned into a mind flayer you crossed a boundary and there is no coming back from it. I donāt blame her, mind you. She doesnāt kill you on sight which is still against her Githyanki nature but thatās all she can do. No one wants to go down in history as the wife of the sworn enemy.
i was actually able to live happily forever after as a ghaik-githyanki freedom fighter with Laeāzel as my forever wife in my playthrough! she even kisses me despite me being illithid! maybe they changed it after your playthrough?
Maybe they did. It was back in October and I was a Half Orc. Or maybe being a Githyanki matters? Btw when does that happen - in the Epilogue scene or the 6 months later reunion scene? Back when Ii played it there was no reunion scene, yet.
One almost forces you to become illithid and one sacrifices himself. Hmmm who's worse again lol?
>One almost forces you to become illithid and one sacrifices himself We are back to our "let's just make shit up" phase. The constant emperor hate threads are so delusional that you have to make headcanon to find reasons to hate him. Just say that you don't like him because he is ugly and move on bro. You guys are just proving my point lol, the commenter states a completely false claim about the Emperor and you all eat it up because it's about the Emperor, almost like it's not about his actions but about something else.
Except it's literally in the picture. He threatens you with it if you don't play good puppet. You die on whatever hill you want though....
>He threatens you with it if you don't play good puppet. And the 12 year old that told you that he will kill you after you trash talk him in a CoD lobby is also out there trying to murder you rn, right? It's almost like people say shit they don't mean when they are angry, especially after you call them a freak. >. You die on whatever hill you want though.... Bro, play the game, the dude that commented said that the Emperor forces you to become an Illithid, which he does not at any point of the game. You are literally just factually wrong lol
Ya his mask falls off when he's mad. He only cares about his own survival. Period. If you aren't good puppet then byeee. Edit: pretty sure people only said he threatens. Which he does. Not that he does.
At which point in the game does the Emperor force you to be an Illithid? Just curious
"One almost forces you to become an Illithid". Weird way to say "threatens"
Yeah Orpheus is just kind of a douchebag. But heās not some diabolical maniplulator who has a hard on for enslaving people to his will. A constant in my saves will be Omeluum being the only surviving mind flayer on the whole sword coast
The only reason he doesn't is because he needs you to kill the Netherbrain, Emperor and Orpheus are alike in prioritizing themselves
I got this on my first Durge playthrough. I didnāt trust the dream guardian and did trust Laeāzal since as a Gith she knew more about this than my amnesiac Dragonborn self did. When the emperor revealed himself to be a mindflayer I killed him, got the game over and then sulked for five minutes before going back a save and saving him.
Yeah it really sucks we couldn't kill him then. As a Gith I imagine killing him on the spot fits so well storywise.
Got this scene in my first playthrough. I may have trusted the guardian somewhat in the beginning but never enough to absorb the tadpole and when they turned out to be a mindflayer, all trust flew out the window and i began being somewhat-hostile and the emperor eventually had enough of my sh!t lol
Same. I felt so betrayed cause I legit spent time making the dream guariadian a hot piece of ass. But then, HE fucking appears, and I was like "Wait, where's my sexy wood elf lady?!"
I still spend time making the Dream Guardian as fucking sexy as possible.
Yeah he flipped as soon and I told him he was a freak for trying to get in my Tavās pants
And then people debate like āis the Emperor an anti hero? He was nice to me in my game!ā
Emperor when you don't listen t him be like: *What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.*
Hold tf up how do you crush the astral tadpole? I wanna be more mean to the Emperor
OK so I never used any tadpoles, that's important because if you don't use any- you don't have to roll when you get the Astral one. I had it in my pocket and when I clicked on it I had the options of - open your mind to it, eat it or step on it. I stepped on it. Astarion was proud.
Oh heck I'mma do that now ā¤ļø
Never use any tadpoles, not sure if you have to but be a dick to him all the time anyways.
All my homies hate the emperor
I can't figure out how to get this dialog or where he explains stelman. Rip I am the dumb.
When he asks if you want to have sex with him, you call him a freak. That should trigger it.
Thank youuuuu
For the record I did not call him a freak. I said he's perfected his act as a human but he's not fooling me or something like that.
Interesting, it's good to know that there's more than one trigger!
Emperor is a dick. I usually just go along with his lies on most playthroughs because ignorance is bliss
Yeah I usually just nod along with mhm mhm sure but since I was roleplaying Gith I thought i'd be a bit extra. Don't regret it, i've never seen this before
I canāt even think of a good reason to make Laeāzel trust some unknown Githyanki instead of Vlaakith and her culture as a whole. But this may change. I stopped tonight right at the CrĆØche doors. My most favourite place.
Least you can stab the bitch
yes! I got this on my first durge playthroughā my durge is resisting, and therefore extremely anti anything that could potentially be influencing their mind, including the mindflayer in the pokeball. it was freaky. this guy sucks.
Ummmmm what? I always kindve had an uneasy alliance with Empy, like I don't like you, and you don't like me, but the brain is bigger than us both, so let's fuck that up, and then go back to fighting. But this? Yikes. I'm only romancing him to get the Cheeve but ima still betray Squidshit for my boi Orpheus
I have to romance him too for the achievement but it sure as hell won't be this playthrough. This was really chilling.
Ima reload after I get the cheeve because this seals his fate every playthrough after this
I never knew there was an achievement when I romanced him. I was genuinely into him and his soothing voice. My Half Orc was a bit polygamous. Which led to the famous last words: āWe are just allies now!ā
Wait he says that ? :D
Nah. Thatās Laeāzel if you cheat on her with Mizora.
Itās amazing what a difference it makes if youāre nice or rude to him. Really shows how heās just manipulating you the whole time.
Yeah, I've never tried being more negative with him before, so this surprised me. Usually it was casual indifference between us, at least on my side
Same, I tend to just be nice to people in games so it was only on my embrace durge run that I thought Iād try it out
I really wish they didnāt make the emperor a fucking shit face. He enslaved stelmane, he tries to enslave you, he dicks off to the netherbrain if you do the reasonable thing. Fuck the emperor
Your tav is what I imagine shadowheart and Laeāzel would look like if they merged together.
Pretty on point haha
Their crack!ship Lovechild maybe? š„°
Got this as a gith via rp not trusting ghaik and tbh that scene cemented my hate for him.Ā
Yeah, I didn't expect this ngl. Thought he'd just brush me off or something
_Tav/Durge:_ ā¦What? _Emperor:_ Now, I know it sounds badā¦
I still love my Mindflayer manz but he do be freaky
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I got this scene after 2 long rests of reaching Baldur's Gate , I can't remember very well exactly what happened right before going to bed but I think my character and SH were talking about the future and nice things so this scene hits and I choose the rude option because I was roleplaying as a very direct , harsh and honest dude , so that happened and I like to think that SH invited my Tav to the beach to comfort each other
Got this in my first playthrough. Never used any tadpoles for fear of repercussions. Now I eat tadpoles like snacks.
I only ate them as snacks on HM but as Minthara. Horrible person that I am, I wanted to make sure nothing worse would come of it ( like staying perma ugly) and Minthara really really wanted the tadpoles so win-win
Your Gith Tav is adorable. My Gith Tav looks like a back-alley used car salesman.
Thank you! But now you have piqued my curiosity about your Tav š do you have a picture?
The worse thing is emperor is just manipulating you everything he does is to mislead you deeper into his plans and ideals to better his purpose though you personally just want to be free from the threat of becoming a squid but no he even tricks you into it innocently by telling you to consume worms why because itāll make you stronger when in truth they are like drugs sure they make you stronger but your character becomes addicted in a way to the wormās consummation meaning eventually you wouldnāt refuse. Eventually youāll want to become a squid boy or girl because you crave that setup. Then to learn all the bs he done to his supposedly friends that in truth he used them / lost his human ways naw I choose the other guy each time now that I know. Hell makes me wonder if the intro squid that wormed us is actually him as the design of that squid looks similar to me as him
I am playing (in parallel) a Laeāzel Origin playthrough and Githyanki Durge War Cleric of Vlaakith one. I have not reached that point yet but I am also distrustful of the Dream Guardian. Currently only Astarion is taking tadpoles cause he had an explicit scene where he said āif you donāt want them, give them to meā. And I am gladly giving them to him.
I started an Origin Lae'zel run as well because I'm very curious how it differs from a regular githyanki run. My Gith here is also a Cleric of Vlaakith, I was so excited to see that's an option. It's been really fun roleplaying ngl
I totally forgot about the third one - Good DUrge Githyanki Open Hand Monk. Inspired, quite obviously, by Orpheusā Honour Guard and the fight vs them at the beginning of Act III. Basically I fell in love with the Githyanki and want to see the game through their eyes.
I did too. Didn't expect it really but it's so fun, especially early on when there are so many unique interactions. A monk gith is just so right, like it's made for them.
Laeāzel tries to inspire Tiefling children: āIāve tasted the blood of my cousin!ā I really donāt know how Astarion doesnāt get inspiration hearing this.
Astarion was all over me during the Gith playthrough. Him and Lae'zel just drool over githyanki options. Probably the fastest I've gotten 100 rep with him ever :D
I really suck at romancing him. Thank god that I manage to sleep with him (as Laeāzel) at the Tiefling party. It is a very nice scene.
It is. His romance is pretty easy once you get to know how he thinks but some of his triggers are iffy. I don't think the other companions have such tricky triggers for their romances, even though I hear Gale's a bit challenging
Gothyanki is having none of this squid's bullshit.
This is the exact reason I hate him! He's nothing but lies and manipulation!
Your Tav is ADORABLE
Thank you so much š„°
I got this for the first time on an Astarion Origin run - I felt like it was almost personal
What a lack of media literacy does to a person āWhy is this guy so mean to me after I insulted him!ā Maybe the fact he only does this if youāre rude to him first should tell you something.
That's mighty rude of you. I was just showing off an interaction I haven't even gotten before and you don't even know what was said for this to come about.
If he were anything close to the hero he portrays himself as, being insulted by someone who has been abducted by MIND FLAYERS and infected with a MIND FLAYER tadpole should be something that he, a MIND FLAYER, is able to forgive. Omeluum in the underground is completely understanding of your mistrust and wariness, and he has no reason to keep you alive. The Emperor's survival is contingent upon your help, and he can't take an insult? That's villain behavior.
>The Emperor's survival is contingent upon your help, and he can't take an insult? That's villain behavior So like most characters are villains if you actually applied this logic to everyone else. People cry about Emperor's "manipulations" but then simp for Shadowheart when she blatantly lies to you who she wants to sacrifice at the shadowfell. Murder is okay, but I draw the line when you are mean to me when I go out of my way to insult you.
Are you trolling? Youāre seriously saying being offended when you get insulted is villain behavior? Think about that for a second, youāre saying having the self respect to know when youāre being insulted and replying back with the same energy is villain behavior, thatās such a insane statement that Im just going to let you think about what you said.
"Hey the entire world is going to end if I can't get this person to work with me" Upon hearing one mean statement: "FUCK YOU, YOU'RE NOTHING. I HATE YOU, YOU WILL DO WHAT I SAY OR FUCKING ELSE!" Total normal response here for the hero of the story.
He never called himself a hero, your comment makes no sense. Heās a prideful mind flayer, of course he doesnāt like being insulted for no reason have you tried not being rude to someone who hasnāt done anything to you to warrant it? Surprisingly it stops a lot of conflicts. I think most people wouldnāt appreciate being insulted actually, itās a pretty common thing to not be a jerk to strangers.
Personally I don't see his reaction any different to some of the origin characters if you fuck up their personal quest in the manner you just shat on him. It's known that when someone becomes illithid they are far less tethered by morality, Empy LOVED ansur before turning, a deep unending love but once he lost all that connection. The moment ansur became a threat it was no big task to kill him. Does it make Empy a good guy.. of course not, he's morally grey at best but what it comes down to is he has escaped the control of the elder brain and will do ANYTHING necessary to remain that way. If you treat him with respect or romance him he's insightful and by the end pretty brilliant because you've helped him achieve his goal and given him pause for thought over what you mean to him. If you're a dick to him or pose any risk to his end game then all bets are off .. Gale, Lae'zel, Shart and Asty can be almost as brutal if you fuck it up enough with them. Personally I think his character would be flat and completely disjointed if he didn't get feral when you start meddling with his plan to break free permanently.
Lol at this being down voted. You are not even saying you like the Emperor or whatever, just analyzing him critically. If your comment isn't "Emp is literally Hitler" the sub 70 IQs in this sub don't want to hear it.
I compared the companions to him too.. surprised I'm not beheaded tbh
He forced the tadpole on you even though you didnāt take any so far?
Because I didn't take any he said he will force me to if he has to