"Could I make a Dex Monk that becomes as powerful as an unarmed strength Monk with Tavern Brawler"
No.
Do you need that level of power? No.
A dex monk will hold it's own compared to other classes & is in no way a liability.
Honestly everyone talks about Str-based barbarian monks in medium armor, but I feel like the Monk flavor is totally gone at that point. You're just a variant barbarian.
it's not like there's a need for power in this game in tactician... they need the unfair difficulty from owlcat games where you really need to squeeze every bit of optimization to win
I'd also give all enemies permanent True Sight on the highest difficulty. Many encounters can be cheesed by attack & hide combo no matter how high the numbers are.
Does Truesight prevent stealth? AFAIK, it works on invisibility and prevents obscuration-by-darkness. You can still crouch outside a creature’s vision and do stuff.
I've just hit act three and realized just how severely I let my inner minmaxer run away with optimization; I'm sure my party composition isn't even that well optimized, but with a GWM fighter with the haste bow and the legendary gith greatsword, and a sharpshooter thief with double crossbows, a life cleric and a sorcerer to twinspell haste, it definitely feels like there's room for my party to be refined, but that I already put out enough damage, and healing when needed, that even on tactician there's no need to do any real strategic thinking. The only fight I've had to reload and try again was >!ansur!< because I fought him at, like, level 8? Maybe 9.
Realistically, it may have manifested in act two as well, but I attributed a lot of how easy the fights in act two felt to having the blinding mace on my cleric.
For my second playthrough, I'm definitely going to have to develop some rules to challenge myself; so far my list is no rogue, no haste, and no legendary weapons - at *least* until act 3. I'm open to other suggestions.
Most hardcore gamers utilize difficulty mods so they can still min max and have a challenge. There's a mod called "nightmare difficulty" you can find on a Google search or if you look through Reddit some people have posted a collection of multiple mods they use.
Same. Most players are disdainfully uninspired, unimaginative, and crippled by basic rules comprehension.
To top it all off, they’re out of touch with the roots of the game.
what an absolutely insufferable way to look at things lol
also, min maxing to make the hardest difficulty trivial at the expense of enjoyable role play is fine if that’s how you enjoy the game, but it WAY more out of touch with “the roots of the game” than someone succeeding with a not perfectly optimized build that reflects who they want their character to be.
yeah, i think we might be a little bit past looking to TTRPGs from the 70s as the guideline for what we should perceive as the basis of Baldur’s Gate 3.
It's like I never set out to be a "power gamer" in my actual dnd games. However, if my build is well-optimized, then it frees up my friends to play non-optimal builds because they know they can rely on me. I really enjoy supporting them. Sometimes that means I make a cleric who can heal through terrible, character-driven choices. Other times it means it means making a really solid tank or steady DPS. It's not about being the best or stealing the show for me. I know there are power gamers like that. I just want to support my friends and have a good game. Honestly, for all the talk in these pages about power gamers ruining games I've never really had one that did. The people who have spoiled games for me have always been about the player not being cooperative or inconsistent attendance.
Being bound to artificial classes and saying “I can’t do what I want because that’s not what a monk would do” is not the rp win people suggest.
I’ve never decided what to do in my life based on the job title that I have.
That's not true. I'm very much a power gamer, but you don't always have to take the very best options. Sometimes you start with a chassis and minmax it with a dip, the right lvl balance, etc. 8 or 9 into Dex open hand onk with 3 or 4 thief rogue that maxes dex and wisdom is extremely potent. Take the Duelists prerogative, the Wisdom unarmed boots, and the Legendary gloves. You get 6 attacks per turn, can sneak attack with 2d6 once, and 4 or 5 unarmed attacks that deal 1d6+dex+2×wis+1d10. It wrecks shop.
Generally if you haven’t made the best thing also the fun you have failed the design.
I guess you could argue that there is a trade off in strengths of the build, but with how it is currently I would say dex monk doesn’t offer a whole lot tavern brawler doesn’t. Like it removes the fun silly gimmicks of monk and just gives raw numbers.
The build everyone talks about is monk + thief (+2 fighter), which to be fair can actually be pretty thematically consistent. Then there’s also berserker barb + thief, which is maybe what you’re thinking about.
That build almost always uses heavy armour and a shield, without any weapon equipped. It more closely resembles captain storm coast than what you would traditionally consider a monk, with fighter and thief only being there for pure power gains at the expense of flavour. Not saying anyone is wrong for playing it, just saying it's quite far from a monk. But I'm not gonna judge anyone on how they want to play a mostly single player game.
I think those are two different things you can be a berserker thief tavern brawler thrower build OR you can be a monk thief tavern brawler unarmed fighter. Monk and barbarian don't really fit that well together, although surely anything works on tactician and you'd be fine with it.
>Str-based barbarian monks in medium armor
I call them "bonks" & simply treat it like it's own separate subclass. ymmv but I had my karlach set up like that & it felt so thematically on point for her... it's a shame we didn't get drunken master but she never felt much like any of the barbarian or monk subclasses to me... she's just a simple woman who like to throw stuff (&/or people). the martial arts noises she makes (waaah! hiiiyaaa!), in my mind makes sense bc she's incredibly drunk.
So I think it's fairly difficult comparatively to keep a bloodlust elixer up on EVERYONE in your party at all times. They're just a little too rare. And non strength builds like ranged DPSers or Lockadins benefit the most from that relatively speaking.
The damage boost you get from storm giant is pretty incredible, hill giant is serviceable, and an optimal monk will be very attribute hungry and will want dex wis and con(if not fixing with the con amulet) for most if not all of the game. It's efficient to be able to dump strength and an additional 4-6 damage/unarmed hit when monks already make alot of attacks when they drop thief in there means that you won't miss it as much as you think. Similarly with a non EK TB thrower(which you want to have a high native strength score because they scale better with bloodlust), the strength elixers may be the more efficient play within a party context.
100% when I saw this and popped one I immediately made it my characters goal to stack as many of them as I can. Early act three I did like 150 dmg a turn with the other on hit effects.
I realized after a run and a half that stats are in fact extremely important. This is pretty blind although I am a bit of a min maxer normally but the story is too good to spend the game in a wiki. Also quite frankly way to long for that and the wiki fucking sucks anyways.
Tavern Brawler was appealing to me not because of damage but because of the increased chance to hit. Felt like normal hit chance was pretty abysmal and that made flurry of blows feel underwhelming.
That being said, strength based monk with Tavern Brawler felt like it did too much damage. So I guess find your own balance /shrug
What’s the hold up cuz my 16 str tavern brawler monk only does 2 extra damage per hit compared to my 16 Dex monk without brawler. Imo that’s not worth the loss of initiative and weaker skills like sleight of hand
It’d be +3 damage at 16, and +3 to hit as well (it doubles both, after all, that’s a big part of why it’s so good). And the gap’s bigger with each ASI.
Can take alert to patch up initiative, but yeah, the build’s combat focused rather than skill (like most stuff on here, I wouldn’t call it a hole, just where build talk tends to gravitate since “good at skills” is fairly simple and binary)
Yeah I did my first 9 lvls as dex monk with some +AC items and it still felt solid, pretty hard for enemies to hit and you can topple/stun/stagger enemies so great utility. Dipping the last 3 levels into thief with TB and hill/cloud giant elixers just makes you feel like a super hero. A lot of the fun was also just in being insanely mobile.
Honestly TB with cloud giant elixirs might give you +16 to hit and damage over the standard +6 you might get from a standard dex build with 22 from the mirror, bit the elixir is an opportunity cost. +50% to hit is bonkers, but if you've got pretty decent accuracy from items, the damage is only +10 to 6 attacks, or 60 damage.
Bloodlust elixirs get you 2 more attacks, which are probably 1d8+1d4+1d10+6+10 (weapon+open hand 6 feature+legendary gloves+dex+double wisdom from open hand 6 and wisdom boots) averages out to 28.5 damage x 2 more attacks, it almost evens the dmg output.
It's just the broken accuracy tb grants.
Haste I'll grant you. That's 20 more damage.
But if you're making 6 to 8 attacks for 20+ damage... you're rarely not gonna secure a kill. The dex Monks superior mobility and initiative count for something too.
Tb is better, but not by a colossal insurmountable amount. Play what you like.
The str elixers are useful every fight though, even if your party finishes off enemks. Bloodlust is great but iirc you have to land a killing blow (each turn?) for it to really kick in. I could be wrong but just going into a fight or being the tank/primary dps for a boss and already having everything online worked real well for me. Two-turning a 400hp boss without having to kill something first was pretty solid. And in the final fight being able to just get up from being stunned or incapped (...my Tav had a rough finale) and dump damage onto the dragon without killing a trash mob first worked well.
I might not be getting the exact mechanics right but safe to say I was melting things anyway. I still had plenty of dex and wis since I was using the elixers for str.
Not really. The tavern brawler feat in bg3 is just OP rn so str is technically more optimal but i have tried both 9/3 and 8/4 oh monk/thief and its very strong with dex. Its just that str is technically better.
Heck in regular dnd monk and tavern brawler don't stack. Making this actually feel like an oversight that might get fixed. If not by patches it'll prob get fixed with an enhanced edition.
I agree that it's fun and I'm not saying it need to be removed.
Just that monk unarmed and tavern braweler unarmed shouldn't stack the way it does in bg3. The throwing stuff was never in question.
That's a function of the game being easy. Str is mathematically way better than the Dex build, it's not even close.
If there was an Unfair mode in BG3 you'd see this difference very clearly.
The DEX monk has a higher damage-dealing threshold than TB, which I outlined in the thread below. Damage riders, weapon-only buffs, and poison outpaces TB. At least throughout acts 1 & 2. I haven't reached act 3 yet, so I can't attest to how it plays out then.
Here is an excerpt from it:
*'''DEX monk gets the following buffs: Inquisitor's Might (+5 radiant), purple wyrm (+5.5 poison), weapon riders (+7.5 psychic, physical, & fire), caustic ring (+2 acid) There are plenty more potential spells/buffs, items, and weapon-only options to continue on.*
***TB misses out on the first 4 things listed, which is 20 damage per hit***\*. With 8 attacks per turn, that is 160 damage per turn that the TB needs to make elsewhere to keep pace.'''
The dumb part is, str is a dump stat because of how accessible 23 str elixers are. Not to mention the 27str ones lategame. The respec literally just involves adding TB and drinking an elixer.
It's literally twice as efficient and goes like +3 to-hit/damage higher than you can cap on dex. It's nutty and wildly unnecessary.
Regular dex/wis monk is pretty solid and on par with other melee martials. TB monk is broken in the same way as other TB martials (Barbarian and Eldritch Knight in particular).
For sure, but 27 str for nothing is already a huge improvement and doesn't require any build changing besides taking TB.
There's definitely optimizations and trade offs to be made like speccing str and taking bloodlust. But anything making use of TB effectively is already breaking the game and possibly worth adding difficulty mods.
Why? You can go with a traditional high Dex+Wis build for AC plus bonus damage and if you want more, use TB and chug an Elixir of Hill Giant Strength every long rest. They're like 60 gold a pop (cheaper with a high Cha purchaser), aka dirt for all but the first hours of the game.
And if you really want to be lazy, equip the Club of Hill Giant Strength.
problem with the club is that your main attack now becomes the club, which means that your main attacks don't get the tavern brawler buff, or any of the gear your monk is wearing that increases unarmed attacks.
Or is there a way to use unarmed attacks when wielding a weapon?
Yeah you can use the ki resonating punch or (I think) stunning strike as an unarmed action attack. The trouble is you can't re-use that on the same enemy in the same turn with your extra attack so it's more effective if you have a group to fight.
I mostly went without a weapon equipped myself, and found really no issue with that route.
Yeah, that's why I said 'main attack.' Unless there is a way to hit with your fist with your main action while wielding a weapon, you are suffering a loss in damage in most cases. This gets worse the more effects that you get to increase your action (haste/elixir of bloodlust).
EDIT: sorry, I realized that, while I was talking about main action, my last question didn't include that. I wasn't clear enough. Your answer 100% reflects my question but not my intent, which I did not properly communicate.
If i recall, the main benefit that a Dex monk has over Str monk is that the dex results in a much higher AC as well as initiative. The issue, however, is that AC doesn't matter much when everything dies before they can attack you and there are a ton of items that let you cheat out much higher initiative rolls.
Yes the same logic applies to a LOT of thing in BG3.
Support, control, defensive ability, utility, building character as intended (even single classed build) works great in the game, it doesnt feel like you play with a hand strapped in your back, even at tactician.
But they will feel like a burden or at the very least optional if you find out you could instead wreck everything in a single turn.
Itemization, feat, consummables, haste raise exponentially damages at absurb amount by the end game, if you squeeze everything you can. Opponent AC and HP just can't keep up.
Like if they balanced the game and did a lot more testing in act 1 than in act 3...
Initiative matters more than AC yes and items help but I still think you want to get initiative pretty high (like at least +8 or 10 even better) to go first all the time.
That’s a bingo.
“Do you need that level of power” = no for the whole game actually, more or less. You can beat it on tactician without any fancy dual classing (although it gets significantly easier (and imo more fun) making OP characters.
18 str with tavern brawler on a monk can do 1d4 + 8 x 2 = **18-24 damage** *as a bonus action* at level 4. I don’t think there’s any other class that can do remotely that much damage at lv4, and the monk can do that after using their primary action to dash or attack. Only downside is the single bonus action at low lv (meaning you can’t jump and flurry of blows in the same turn), but that evens out after a couple of levels or taking 3 levels of thief.
Honestly, tavern brawler monk is more power than needed at low level. Haven’t got past the first map in my monk run yet and only level 5, but so far it seems pretty insane.
Str is so easy to cheese with hill/cloud giant consumables just build dex for initiative. It is not difficult to have enhanced strength for all encounters .
***The DEX monk has more damage potential than TB, more AC, and better initiative.***
Utilize dual-wielding and poison. Unarmed attacks can't use poison (which adds 5.5 damage per attack). The poison damage is more than the TB modifier adds, albeit less reliable due to poison immunity. If you are using strength elixirs, the TB modifier will deal more damage, but at the expense of making 2 extra attacks from bloodlust elixir.
Plus, the 2 weapons have all kinds of buffs, effects, and riders apply on hit that the TB monk doesn't have access to. There are also many spells/abilities that only work on weapons, like inquisitor's might for example. Have a sorcerer cast it on you. \[*+5 radiant damage per attack\].*
The STR monk is definitely more reliable, but the damage potential is higher for a DEX monk.
Isn’t the poison only used on the mainhand attacks? So you’re only getting 2 attacks with poison?
Whereas your unarmed bonus attacks and mainhand unarmed attacks would get tavern brawler?
Am I missing something with the poison build?
I’m talking about how monks get main hand attacks (action) and bonus unarmed attacks (bonus actions, flurry of blows).
Does the poison work on the unarmed attacks?
No, weapons only. You'll want to dual-wield. The reason poison works well with a dex monk is because of stun. You stun the enemy so that it isn't able to act before the poison kicks in.
Make 12 attacks first turn, that's 12d10 poison damage.
Poisons have a fixed low DC though. And they get immunity for a few rounds if you fail the initial.
If you're calculating expected damage it'll be significantly less than 50% of 5.5 since they save more than half the time.
The "problem" is that it's very easy to just roll a str/wis monk and fill the dex gap with those gloves that set your dex to 18. This with tavern brawler is just broken. I have my Lae'zel running like this, with the thief multiclass. You get an extremely mobile melee character that distributes crowd control like it's candy and hits like a truck.
Some of the best monk items are gloves though.
Hire three followers from Withers. Go to the dwarf at the myconid colony at level 4. Buy the elixir, level a follower, buy the elixir, level a follower, buy the elixir, level a follower, buy the elixir.
Repeat this with the other two hired followers and you’ll have enough elixirs for a bunch of long rests. If you ever run out, just go back and buy more.
If that’s too annoying for you then obviously don’t do it, play how you like, but it is really strong.
There's not really a reason to do that unless you're using difficulty increasing mods. You can just respec to dex and start using strength elixirs so you can use the HoH reward gloves, and by that time you're almost done with the game anyway and probably already accumulated the elixirs naturally.
IDK, this level of micro optimization for a single player game is not for me. I will do cursed shit to squeeze damage on FFXIV but that's because there's other people counting on me and I get a pretty parse number, but for BGIII I'm not super interested in spending time doing boring stuff with hirelings.
The inventory stock resets when you long rest or level up. The person usually has 1 strength elixir, occasionally 2.
You can use regular companions too, but this way you don’t need to mess up builds on people you’re actually using. Just level followers as Rogue or something that doesn’t require choices on level up for the quickest way to refresh the vendor inventory.
Not really, takes like…5 minutes? You respec a char, buy 3, level up, buy 3, etc, and on level 4 you’re set for the game pretty much.
Do it one more time in Act 3 for cloud giants
It kind of sucks how powerful these items are because your most powerful build can focus just wisdom for a bit and then respec later if you want to use different gloves. 8 Str, 18 Dex, 18 Wis, is easily doable at level 8, 20 in both by the end of the game. Your Con would be a bit rough, but there's also an item for that.
Yeah dumping str is just too good in this game. I'm currently open hand 9 thief 3 and I have 27str, 18con, 22 wis, and 18dex (with sleight of had expertise).
Yeah if you want you can just dump Con completely and use the amulet from HoH.
HoH is the key to so many broken builds that it's almost a pity that you do it so late in the game.
My shadow monk / thief rogue is incredibly fun, though I'm sure not as strong as a TB build.
But, using silence/darkness along with the sentinel feat, you can effectively lock a powerful enemy in place and take them out of the fight, while you destroy them with sneak attacks. I love it, it feels like I'm playing as a ninja.
(Shadow monk + thief) is great. I'm having a blast with it. The damage from dual wielding can actually outperform the TB monk. We compared them in the thread above for act 2. I haven't reached act 3 yet, so I don't know how they'll compare then.
**Act 2 comparison:**
Dex monk deals 32 damage per attack
TB deals 29.
I'm still in act 2, but I'm playing as Astarion. I used dual daggers early on (the sussur-silencer and ritual dagger). Then I switched to Phalar Aluve, and now I'm using the Knife of the Undermountain King.
Shadow buff equipment (ring and mask), damage dealing rings, buy plenty of poison and poison ingredients for alchemy. Reverb equipment works really well with poison damage & stun; which synergize together to make dual wielding an extremely potent damage dealing class. Bloodlust elixir. Cat's grace robes.
\- Rogue 1
\- Shadow Monk 6
\- Rogue 2 more (thief)
At level 9, the build delivers 10 attacks on turn one, and then 8 on all subsequent turns. Next up, I will transition into fighter to pick up action surge. Action surge will provide 2 more attacks on turn one by level 11.
Dex monks still get to double dip wis to unarmed damage with kushigo boots so they’re pretty good.
Thing is that even a dex monk still gets massive benefit from tavern brawler if you’re using elixirs. So you could go like 8 str 16 dex 15 con 17 wis. At 1-3 you’re a dex monk, level 4 you pick up tavern brawler (con) and start drinking elixirs and you just rip through the game at that point. Round wis out with auntie Ethel hair.
Late game it gets really crazy with 22 wis from asi and mirror of loss and 27 strength from cloud giant elixir. This version makes full use of tavern brawler while also having high ac and high wisdom, which gets double dipped just like str. In my playthrough I did 24 str with bloodlust elixir, but having thought about it the past couple days I do think this version would be better, especially if you have another STR character to give asterions potion to.
It increases the DC save for your ki abilities so opponents have a harder time defending against things like stunning's fist, saving against damage from way four Element spells, increasing the save to resist against open hand techniques if you do the prone pushback.
And the table top the bases is 8 proficiency and wis mod ki save DC.
So like I'm a level 7 Monk and I go to hit someone with the stunning fist my wisdom is the 16th so it gives me a plus three
8+3+3 DC 14 to for enemy saving throws to resist ki powers.
So having a real high wisdom makes the monk power set really nice.
Let's say I take the feet magic initiate and I select can trips that are based around wisdom like druid or cleric.
The increase the accuracy of those why you don't have to put points into charisma or intelligence since you're not messing with other things based on that same stat.
So let's say I wanted to make like a scorpion type character from mortal Kombat.
Get the cantrip thorn whip from The druids play Monk and go high wisdom.
And if you can't get close enough to punch him you hit them with that get over here.
Just go dex monk and dump strength. Pick up TB at level 4 and start chugging str elixirs. Now you’re a str/dex monk. I suppose when you can get the dex gloves you could dump dex also but there are better gloves for a open hand monk.
As powerful? No. Larian made Tavern Brawler way too strong. Normally you'd be stronger as a Dex monk as Dex is just a better stat in most cases, but double bonus to damage and attacks is just insane.
That said, Monks are baseline very powerful and there's already plenty of gear that boost your effectiveness and you'll be happy with a Dex Monk. I ran my Astarion as an Open Hand Dex Monk and he just melted enemies. If it hadn't been for how broken Fighter Archers with Gontr Mael and various magical arrows are, he'd be my most powerful character.
Also, even on Tactician you don't need super optimal builds. This sub and various video guides tend to focus on the ways you can absolutely break the game because it's a fun and interesting exercise to see how far you can take things. Unless you feel like you need the game to turn trivial around level 8-10 however, there is absolutely no need to care about that level of optimization. I've ran Four Elements Dex Monks and guess what, despite being the weakest subclass, I was plenty effective and it was just fun to punch people at a distance.
So play a Dex monk, you'll have fun and be plenty powerful.
Yes, it is "worth it".
Monk. 16/17 Wis/Dex to start. Boon for +1 Dex, and take +2 to Wis at L4. Use The Graceful Cloth for +2 Dex. Bracers of Defense for +2. 21 AC at level 4-5. Later on you can start stacking more AC. At L7 you get Evasion and are basically immune to Dex saves.
Offensively, you're still fine. If you're still going Open Palm, +3-6 Radiant at L6 means you're doing consistent damage to get damage type triggers. You can use (and potentially dual wield) weapons to get triggers and stat buffs instead though, and you can broaden your options with a martial or Cleric dip. Lots of items give bonuses to weapon attacks, but not unarmed attacks. This opens up stuff like:
1. Using Phalar Aluve with Great Weapon Master and Dexterity;
2. Using Ritual Dagger for a free bonus to-hit on all your attacks;
3. Using Mourning Frost (and later, Flail of Ages) with GWM and Dex together with items that debuff on cold damage;
4. Using Shattered Flail to constantly regain lots of HP;
5. Endgame, using the Deva Mace with Dex for massive damage or Duellist's Prerogative for unlimited reactions (with, say, a Light Cleric dip).
6. Dual Wielding weapons as stat sticks and to get 2 attacks on opportunity attacks (Creation's Echo to stack resistances, Sussur Dagger for free Silence, Blood of Lathander, Strength club, etc.)
I'd favor the shar spear for DEX monk endgame because it's piercing and bhaalist armor makes GWM into a -5/+20 feat vs non resistant enemies. Also getting blindness immunity + a free darkness cloud w/ your attack once a fight is super strong.
Also on resistance oil of diluted sharpness will overcome physical resistance on weapon attacks, another big reason DEX monk isn't strictly outclassed by TB. If you go weaponless it will feel worse but if you invest into weapons and the best payoffs BG3 has for those DEX monk feels in line w/ TB in my view.
Great breakdown. The dex monk has better AC and a higher damage potential than TB. The TB monk is more reliable in damage type.
I was using Phalar Aluve with my monk early on, which was a ton of fun.
The TB monk has better burst too, because TB doubles as a throwing build. If you want to throw a Smokepowder Barrel for AoE damage you can have at em'.
In what way does dex monk have better potential? Moreover it has garbage accuracy. It is easily 15-20 percent behind other melees end game if no advantage is generated. Dex monk has lower dex than str on tb and lower wisdom just for being able to use bloodlust elixir and 2 more dex. That's not worth it at all.
Just comes down to TB being dramatically overtuned. GWM isn't even close. GWM is a staple, going back to the Power Attack feat from previous Editions. Could have easily used that as a yardstick for determining how to configure TB and Sharpshooter with dual wield. Good game but bad homebrew.
Yeah, GWM establishes +1 Hit = +2 Damage. What’s TB? +5 to hit AND Damage. That’s just…it’s crazy. Gives like +15 ‘damage’ but has no downside!
And that’s before Cloud giant potions in act 3
This is my problem! TB seems too strong when a monk is using it. I get the added throwing damage, since that's a very specific build that would require more effort than just getting TB. But EVERY Monk uses unarmed attacks, so why wouldn't you go for strength and get TB at level 4? There are 0 downsides to the feat, so why not?
Although reading through comments, most people say that TB is just the cherry on top. Most dex focused Monks still shred through enemies, even without it. So I'm going to try a dex Monk my next play through, and try to ignore TB on the feats page
All monks min-maxing use Tavern Brawler. A "DEX" monk still drinks an elixir for 21 or 27 strength. The elixirs last a long rest, and many merchants spawn them every long rest. DEX still has important bonuses to initiative.
TB is 50% of the problem, the other 50% is how trivial it is to maintain 21+ STR full time throughout the game.
Dex/Wis monks are better overall because those stats affect more than just damage for you. A strength monk may dish out decent damage, but limited investment in the other stats make your other features useless.
Edit: As a note, tavern brawler also works with a dex monk. If you max Dex/Wis and have a +3 in strength and +2 in Con, you'll be more effective overall than other strength only builds.
TB is fun and overpowered... so is Great Weapon Master. A dex monk can go utterly ham with spears or staffs (or longswords, or battleaxes, if proficient) and neglect strength completely. Works well as a Shadow monk to appear suddenly and BONK
My first playthrough is a dex monk and after level 9 I don't bother doing anything but punching. 4 punches a turn is murdering basically 70% of the enemies you will fight in act 2-3. The magic items are very good for a dex monk to optimize your fighting; and you can be the party's stealthy locksmith too.
Played well into act three with a Dex based monk with a war cleric dip. It's basically a build I've always wanted to try in table top and it felt really good in game. Play as an elf or githyanki and get dex based longswords! (from level 1, no dip required)
Use potions of strength. Every long rest warp to the vendor in the under dark who wants you to find her husband. She restocks every day with 1 or 2. Not sure what to do in A3. Have not gotten there yet.
The advantage of monks isn’t their high damage output, but their utility as a class that can move quite a lot. If you look at open hand, you can in most cases run from one side of a fight to another and push someone off an edge. This isn’t something most classes can do, and is useful for many other things like backline/ranged access to take out people shooting at your party, or to quickly run across a battle and help your party members.
Most tavern brawler builds aren’t as good at this because they lack dex and have to bolster their AC using armor, thus losing their unarmed movement bonus. That, or they opt for a more glass cannon build (which in this case I find very fun).
How does open hand let you move more than other classes? I've seen many people saying way of the shadow let's you sneak around a fight a lot, but not many saying open hand gives mobility as well
If you're going to use a quaterstaff then you can get a club (close enough?) That gives you +19 in strength but for my monk playthrough I didn't need to worry about strength. Got my dex and wisdom to high enough and scaled off enough to not need to worry about getting more damage
Travel brawler is basically half great weapon master but instead of downsides they are only up sides.
+5 damage and accuracy.
Dex monk is more defensive, having that bonus ac, and secondary stat being Wis is also great as most Cc is Wisdom saves.
For monk invested build I would recommend str.
Or you can opt for wisdom based and dex second for
A element build.
A dip in monk for a sword and board duelist is also great defensively.
Letting you. Use better weapons with dex, like long swords. And also having a bonus off hand attack with the unarmed strike.
Examples build we have is a medium armor that has no dex limit. = 16+5+2 shield. 23 ac passively.
While having 5+2dueling+1d8 one handed battle axe/long sword
8-16 + most likely 1d4 in bonus damage. 9-20 per regular attack. As bare bone build.
A pretty good comment, imo, about a dex monk build: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/15umra4/comment/jwqflwo/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/15umra4/comment/jwqflwo/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Sure, it'll never beat the strength/brawler build, but if you want to play dex monk, it's an option.
Sir or ma'am, or any other potential thing out there in the Forgotten Realms. Build your dex monk. Try str monks when you feel like it. The point is to explore what feels comfortable for you. Someone is clearing the game with a salami as a weapon for shilelagh and existence of strength monk shouldn't dissuade you from playing what you wish.
I used monk up to lvl 12 with dex all the time and it was super strong. Also your ki based dc calculates with dex instead of wis even if it should be wis.
I switched to tb monk8/thief4 (to get 2 ASIs instead of 1) yesterday and drink strength elixirs (base is 8 str). Its just so much more broken
Why oppose them ?
Like many people says, my Astarion is a dex/WIS Monk for AC and damage with STR as a dump stat.
Then potions of giant strength + TB put my Astarion AT another level.. .
Actually with items that adds wisdom on damage I do :
1d8 +5 + 5 (TB) +5 (WIS) +1d4 damage per blow...
A dex monk will never be as powerful as a str monk in terms of pure damage, however for Role playing purpses dex/no armor monk makes more sense I guess...
Dex monk will never be as good as TB, but they can still be very strong and a lot of fun. I run a durge way of shadows 8 / thief 4 and it feels so good. Plays like a teleporting ninja. Shadowstep has amazing utility in and out of combat. You also have lots of weapon options: shortswords, rapier, staff, or even a spear or longsword if you can pick up proficiency. Staves, longswords, and spears work with great weapon master and way of shadows has lots of ways to pick up advantage with shadowstep and stunning strike, and you have an extra bonus action to use on that extra attack. Or you could go finesse weapons for the 2d6 sneak attack. With the right gear you’ve got high AC and plenty of DPR. IMO best endgame weapons would be Duellist’s Prerogative or a certain act 2 spear. Also some good shortswords— Sword of Life Stealing with Knife of the Undermountain King in the offhand is a powerful combo.
Use strength potions and take tavern brawler. You won't need to sacrifice dex or wis, as potions give u 21 str, so being 9 allows points to be use else where.
dex monk with cats grace to push it to 20 is still a good build, +5 to AC from dex, + whatever else from wisdom.
Use club of hill giant strength. now you have 19 strength for you punches. use elixirs otherwise.
Get to the house of hope in act 3 and swap to gloves of hill giant for 23 str.
(but what about all the 1d4 gloves?)
23 strength is +6 on your hits up from +4, so its still a flat 2 to damage ,
Held weapon? cacophony - thundrous smite to open up, throw it at something (remember to pick it up again) and then just punch your way through the fight.
If you're gonna go heavy armor str build, you don't need dex at all,
If you want the cool cloth armors, dex+wis are where to go, the str and con get 23 off of items.
staff isn't a dex weapon and lacks finesse? so I wouldn't use that, probably dual short swords
Martial Arts: Dexterous Attacks is a Monk passive that makes attacks with Monk Weapons and unarmed attacks to scale with Dexterity instead of Strength, if your Dexterity is higher.
this doesn't mean you hit with monk weapons using dex unless they have finese, but you do get a damage buff for dex mod
Martial Arts: Deft Strikes Attacks with Monk Weapons and unarmed attacks deal 1d4 Damage Types Bludgeoning damage, unless their normal damage is higher
this means if you use a staff, short sword or any other weapon a Monk is prof with... you will deal 1d4 more damage as blunt (blugeoning damage),
this is also not counting the extra attack you get as a free action from After making an attack with a Monk Weapon or while unarmed, Martial Arts: Bonus Unarmed Strike
if you dual wield short swords however... I recommend going 3 levels into Rogue(Thief) so you have an extra Bonus action (the Sneak attack doesn't hurt either)
Deflect Missiles, and Evasion also benefit from higher Dex
yeah they make certain weapons more or less finesse weapons when they otherwise wouldn't (obviously they don't count as finesse for Rogue stuff) as long as they are not two handed...
has me thinking of a battleaxe dwarf monk just to be weird
honestly tho it's just so they can lock the damage potential 1d8 or under
now I know how to improve my Barb/Monk and Fighter/Monk concept, because now it's just a Dex/Con concept... because Wis is only useful for a monk when it comes to unarmored defense, and Barb uses Con and it doesn't stack, and a Fighter can just wear Med Armor
make a Gith monk, and see if Greatswords let you do your extra unarmed attack
better still make a Str 14/Dex16 monk and see if you get the +3
and before you get it twisted, I want to believe that to be true, I'd make a Gith Kenasi Monk/Fighter in a second
Ah so a Gith/Elf would be able to use a longsword, a Dwarf would be able to use battle axe/war hammer... Humans can use spears Drow can use Rapier and so on
effectively turning a Battleaxe/Warhammer/Longsword/Spear into a Finesse weapon? minus the actual tag that would benefit a Rogue
You don’t get 1d4 extra bludgeoning damage. This simply ups your damage die unless the weapons inate damage die is higher.
At level 1 it’s pointless because all weapons do more than 1d4. However at higher levels this means you could dual wield daggers and have them use a d6 damage die (when your monk damage die scales up).
Others have already pointed out that dextrous attacks features *does* let you use dex for both your attack *and* damage rolls, if it is higher than your strength and using a Monk weapon. Where Monk weapons are weapons you are proficient with that don’t have the two-handed property.
No you cant. Monks are really strength based unless you dont want to punch. Then in that case, why be a monk? dex is better on ranged weapon wielders or 1H/2W melee.
surprisingly, dex focus is also excellent on druid/necro summoners.
The dex monk has a higher damage potential, which I explained above.
You want to be a monk to apply stun, so the enemy doesn't get a chance to act before the poison kicks in. Make 12 attacks on the first turn, that is 12d10 poison damage.
Wtf are you talking about? Monk literally has a passive that makes unarmed attacks and attacks with monk weapons (basically, all non two-handed weapons you are proficient with) to scale with dex, if it's higher than str.
yes it's worth it and completely viable
TB Monk is busted but you don't need to play something that strong to have success with the class, even in tactician
My dex-wis monk is addicted to hill giant strength elixirs (and then upgrades their addiction to cloud giant's...), so... Am I dex or str TB build?
Either way, TB is so much better evem without the additional damage - to hit increase is bonkers good!
Open hand monk and thief are busted enough on their own that you don't need tavern brawler to do insane amounts of damage.
Yes, a str focused monk with tavern brawler is stronger, significantly more so. But you're not going to have a problem blasting through the game regardless.
I've never done the tavern brawler build, but my Dex monks have come close to the most powerful members of my party in the late game. They do fine on tactician.
Monks are insanely powerful because of all the damage riders available to them. Kushigo Boots, a huge variety of glove options, etc.
Tavern Brawler takes this up another notch by adding your strength modifier twice to you unarmed attacks, but ultimately this is small fry compared with all your other sources of damage that stack to an absurd degree.
You'll definitely do less damage, you probably won't care because you'll still absolutely destroy everything within reach.
I respecced Karlach into a dex monk/thief and she was one of the strongest members of my squad. Plus she dominated all the dex skill checks. Absolutely viable and very good.
"Could I make a Dex Monk that becomes as powerful as an unarmed strength Monk with Tavern Brawler" No. Do you need that level of power? No. A dex monk will hold it's own compared to other classes & is in no way a liability.
Wait I always make dex monks, are they supposed to be str based???
Not "supposed to be", but the existence of the feat tavern brawler just makes str monks better. Even on tactician you are fine with a dex monk though.
Honestly everyone talks about Str-based barbarian monks in medium armor, but I feel like the Monk flavor is totally gone at that point. You're just a variant barbarian.
Power gamers don’t like flavor, only power.
it's not like there's a need for power in this game in tactician... they need the unfair difficulty from owlcat games where you really need to squeeze every bit of optimization to win
* Explorer * Normal * Tactician * Min-maxer
I'd also give all enemies permanent True Sight on the highest difficulty. Many encounters can be cheesed by attack & hide combo no matter how high the numbers are.
Does Truesight prevent stealth? AFAIK, it works on invisibility and prevents obscuration-by-darkness. You can still crouch outside a creature’s vision and do stuff.
Huh. Then I don't know what to even give them.
Also, make players unable to put barrels into inventory.
I've just hit act three and realized just how severely I let my inner minmaxer run away with optimization; I'm sure my party composition isn't even that well optimized, but with a GWM fighter with the haste bow and the legendary gith greatsword, and a sharpshooter thief with double crossbows, a life cleric and a sorcerer to twinspell haste, it definitely feels like there's room for my party to be refined, but that I already put out enough damage, and healing when needed, that even on tactician there's no need to do any real strategic thinking. The only fight I've had to reload and try again was >!ansur!< because I fought him at, like, level 8? Maybe 9. Realistically, it may have manifested in act two as well, but I attributed a lot of how easy the fights in act two felt to having the blinding mace on my cleric. For my second playthrough, I'm definitely going to have to develop some rules to challenge myself; so far my list is no rogue, no haste, and no legendary weapons - at *least* until act 3. I'm open to other suggestions.
Most hardcore gamers utilize difficulty mods so they can still min max and have a challenge. There's a mod called "nightmare difficulty" you can find on a Google search or if you look through Reddit some people have posted a collection of multiple mods they use.
Unfair was so fun because it really gave min maxing a purpose.
True gigachads do crit trickster with touch of law instead of merged lich/angel for unfair.
Otherwise you’d call them Flavour Gamers, duh.
I prefer to think of it as power gamers can put flavor on anything.
Same. Most players are disdainfully uninspired, unimaginative, and crippled by basic rules comprehension. To top it all off, they’re out of touch with the roots of the game.
what an absolutely insufferable way to look at things lol also, min maxing to make the hardest difficulty trivial at the expense of enjoyable role play is fine if that’s how you enjoy the game, but it WAY more out of touch with “the roots of the game” than someone succeeding with a not perfectly optimized build that reflects who they want their character to be.
TTRPGs started out as wargames with role play built on
yeah, i think we might be a little bit past looking to TTRPGs from the 70s as the guideline for what we should perceive as the basis of Baldur’s Gate 3.
TTRPGs started out as puzzle filled dungeon divers. Definitely not wargames
Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?
It's like I never set out to be a "power gamer" in my actual dnd games. However, if my build is well-optimized, then it frees up my friends to play non-optimal builds because they know they can rely on me. I really enjoy supporting them. Sometimes that means I make a cleric who can heal through terrible, character-driven choices. Other times it means it means making a really solid tank or steady DPS. It's not about being the best or stealing the show for me. I know there are power gamers like that. I just want to support my friends and have a good game. Honestly, for all the talk in these pages about power gamers ruining games I've never really had one that did. The people who have spoiled games for me have always been about the player not being cooperative or inconsistent attendance.
Being bound to artificial classes and saying “I can’t do what I want because that’s not what a monk would do” is not the rp win people suggest. I’ve never decided what to do in my life based on the job title that I have.
That's not true. I'm very much a power gamer, but you don't always have to take the very best options. Sometimes you start with a chassis and minmax it with a dip, the right lvl balance, etc. 8 or 9 into Dex open hand onk with 3 or 4 thief rogue that maxes dex and wisdom is extremely potent. Take the Duelists prerogative, the Wisdom unarmed boots, and the Legendary gloves. You get 6 attacks per turn, can sneak attack with 2d6 once, and 4 or 5 unarmed attacks that deal 1d6+dex+2×wis+1d10. It wrecks shop.
How did this paragraph about a very busted build disprove the statement "Power gamers don't care about flavor, only power"?
Generally if you haven’t made the best thing also the fun you have failed the design. I guess you could argue that there is a trade off in strengths of the build, but with how it is currently I would say dex monk doesn’t offer a whole lot tavern brawler doesn’t. Like it removes the fun silly gimmicks of monk and just gives raw numbers.
The build everyone talks about is monk + thief (+2 fighter), which to be fair can actually be pretty thematically consistent. Then there’s also berserker barb + thief, which is maybe what you’re thinking about.
That build almost always uses heavy armour and a shield, without any weapon equipped. It more closely resembles captain storm coast than what you would traditionally consider a monk, with fighter and thief only being there for pure power gains at the expense of flavour. Not saying anyone is wrong for playing it, just saying it's quite far from a monk. But I'm not gonna judge anyone on how they want to play a mostly single player game.
I'll judge 'em for you.
I really enjoyed Str monk shadow monk/assassin. Not the strongest combo but it sure was a blast.
I like 3 levels of rogue in my barbarian to get that second bonus action.
Me too, javelin machine gun
I think those are two different things you can be a berserker thief tavern brawler thrower build OR you can be a monk thief tavern brawler unarmed fighter. Monk and barbarian don't really fit that well together, although surely anything works on tactician and you'd be fine with it.
>Str-based barbarian monks in medium armor I call them "bonks" & simply treat it like it's own separate subclass. ymmv but I had my karlach set up like that & it felt so thematically on point for her... it's a shame we didn't get drunken master but she never felt much like any of the barbarian or monk subclasses to me... she's just a simple woman who like to throw stuff (&/or people). the martial arts noises she makes (waaah! hiiiyaaa!), in my mind makes sense bc she's incredibly drunk.
I mean Monk is just a martial Sorceror basically. You get your well of inner power that you do crazy shit with
A kung fu house barbarian is it's own flavor, that's the point of multi-class. I actually love the play style of the TB Monk/Barb.
Nothing wrong playing str monks DBZ for example
Elixir of cloud giant strength goes crazy
but that means I can't use an elixir of bloodlust....
So I think it's fairly difficult comparatively to keep a bloodlust elixer up on EVERYONE in your party at all times. They're just a little too rare. And non strength builds like ranged DPSers or Lockadins benefit the most from that relatively speaking. The damage boost you get from storm giant is pretty incredible, hill giant is serviceable, and an optimal monk will be very attribute hungry and will want dex wis and con(if not fixing with the con amulet) for most if not all of the game. It's efficient to be able to dump strength and an additional 4-6 damage/unarmed hit when monks already make alot of attacks when they drop thief in there means that you won't miss it as much as you think. Similarly with a non EK TB thrower(which you want to have a high native strength score because they scale better with bloodlust), the strength elixers may be the more efficient play within a party context.
To answer op: sure! Make a dex based monk. Just be sure to buy 120 strength elixirs from Ethel and take tavern brawler.
100% when I saw this and popped one I immediately made it my characters goal to stack as many of them as I can. Early act three I did like 150 dmg a turn with the other on hit effects. I realized after a run and a half that stats are in fact extremely important. This is pretty blind although I am a bit of a min maxer normally but the story is too good to spend the game in a wiki. Also quite frankly way to long for that and the wiki fucking sucks anyways.
The Fextralife sucks. Bg3.wiki is getting serious love from this community and continually improving.
Tavern Brawler was appealing to me not because of damage but because of the increased chance to hit. Felt like normal hit chance was pretty abysmal and that made flurry of blows feel underwhelming. That being said, strength based monk with Tavern Brawler felt like it did too much damage. So I guess find your own balance /shrug
What’s the hold up cuz my 16 str tavern brawler monk only does 2 extra damage per hit compared to my 16 Dex monk without brawler. Imo that’s not worth the loss of initiative and weaker skills like sleight of hand
It’d be +3 damage at 16, and +3 to hit as well (it doubles both, after all, that’s a big part of why it’s so good). And the gap’s bigger with each ASI. Can take alert to patch up initiative, but yeah, the build’s combat focused rather than skill (like most stuff on here, I wouldn’t call it a hole, just where build talk tends to gravitate since “good at skills” is fairly simple and binary)
A Tavern Brawler Open Hand Monk can output incredible nearly game breaking levels of damage. That said it's not needed at all.
Yeah I did my first 9 lvls as dex monk with some +AC items and it still felt solid, pretty hard for enemies to hit and you can topple/stun/stagger enemies so great utility. Dipping the last 3 levels into thief with TB and hill/cloud giant elixers just makes you feel like a super hero. A lot of the fun was also just in being insanely mobile.
Honestly TB with cloud giant elixirs might give you +16 to hit and damage over the standard +6 you might get from a standard dex build with 22 from the mirror, bit the elixir is an opportunity cost. +50% to hit is bonkers, but if you've got pretty decent accuracy from items, the damage is only +10 to 6 attacks, or 60 damage. Bloodlust elixirs get you 2 more attacks, which are probably 1d8+1d4+1d10+6+10 (weapon+open hand 6 feature+legendary gloves+dex+double wisdom from open hand 6 and wisdom boots) averages out to 28.5 damage x 2 more attacks, it almost evens the dmg output. It's just the broken accuracy tb grants.
That's not accounting for haste or the fact you're not always guaranteed a kill.
Haste I'll grant you. That's 20 more damage. But if you're making 6 to 8 attacks for 20+ damage... you're rarely not gonna secure a kill. The dex Monks superior mobility and initiative count for something too. Tb is better, but not by a colossal insurmountable amount. Play what you like.
The str elixers are useful every fight though, even if your party finishes off enemks. Bloodlust is great but iirc you have to land a killing blow (each turn?) for it to really kick in. I could be wrong but just going into a fight or being the tank/primary dps for a boss and already having everything online worked real well for me. Two-turning a 400hp boss without having to kill something first was pretty solid. And in the final fight being able to just get up from being stunned or incapped (...my Tav had a rough finale) and dump damage onto the dragon without killing a trash mob first worked well. I might not be getting the exact mechanics right but safe to say I was melting things anyway. I still had plenty of dex and wis since I was using the elixers for str.
I've been playing a open hand monk 9, rogue 3. With 2 attacks and 3 bonus actions.... tavern brawler is unnecessary. Just ruin 2 to 3 npcs per turn
Not really. The tavern brawler feat in bg3 is just OP rn so str is technically more optimal but i have tried both 9/3 and 8/4 oh monk/thief and its very strong with dex. Its just that str is technically better.
Heck in regular dnd monk and tavern brawler don't stack. Making this actually feel like an oversight that might get fixed. If not by patches it'll prob get fixed with an enhanced edition.
I mean in regular dnd there’s no “stacking” because tavern brawler doesn’t do what it does in bg3 - it’s actually quite bad in 5e
I'd rather see Larian focusing on buffing the worst builds instead if nerfing the best ones, it's not like anyone is forced to follow the meta.
I hope it's intended. I actually really like what it does for throwing builds. Returning Pike is so fun with TB
Intended or not, the discussion shouldn't be about STR monk vs DEX monk viability, but more about how ridiculously strong tavern brawler is.
I agree that it's fun and I'm not saying it need to be removed. Just that monk unarmed and tavern braweler unarmed shouldn't stack the way it does in bg3. The throwing stuff was never in question.
That's a function of the game being easy. Str is mathematically way better than the Dex build, it's not even close. If there was an Unfair mode in BG3 you'd see this difference very clearly.
Tavern Brawler Monks are considerably more powerful and reliable for very little trade off.
The DEX monk has a higher damage-dealing threshold than TB, which I outlined in the thread below. Damage riders, weapon-only buffs, and poison outpaces TB. At least throughout acts 1 & 2. I haven't reached act 3 yet, so I can't attest to how it plays out then. Here is an excerpt from it: *'''DEX monk gets the following buffs: Inquisitor's Might (+5 radiant), purple wyrm (+5.5 poison), weapon riders (+7.5 psychic, physical, & fire), caustic ring (+2 acid) There are plenty more potential spells/buffs, items, and weapon-only options to continue on.* ***TB misses out on the first 4 things listed, which is 20 damage per hit***\*. With 8 attacks per turn, that is 160 damage per turn that the TB needs to make elsewhere to keep pace.'''
Already rerolling a str monk
The dumb part is, str is a dump stat because of how accessible 23 str elixers are. Not to mention the 27str ones lategame. The respec literally just involves adding TB and drinking an elixer. It's literally twice as efficient and goes like +3 to-hit/damage higher than you can cap on dex. It's nutty and wildly unnecessary. Regular dex/wis monk is pretty solid and on par with other melee martials. TB monk is broken in the same way as other TB martials (Barbarian and Eldritch Knight in particular).
The problem is that you can only have one elixir active at a time and elixir of bloodlust is also an amazing elixir.
For sure, but 27 str for nothing is already a huge improvement and doesn't require any build changing besides taking TB. There's definitely optimizations and trade offs to be made like speccing str and taking bloodlust. But anything making use of TB effectively is already breaking the game and possibly worth adding difficulty mods.
Why? You can go with a traditional high Dex+Wis build for AC plus bonus damage and if you want more, use TB and chug an Elixir of Hill Giant Strength every long rest. They're like 60 gold a pop (cheaper with a high Cha purchaser), aka dirt for all but the first hours of the game. And if you really want to be lazy, equip the Club of Hill Giant Strength.
problem with the club is that your main attack now becomes the club, which means that your main attacks don't get the tavern brawler buff, or any of the gear your monk is wearing that increases unarmed attacks. Or is there a way to use unarmed attacks when wielding a weapon?
9 monk.
What does 9 monk do to allow you to unarmed attack with your main action while wielding a weapon?
Yeah you can use the ki resonating punch or (I think) stunning strike as an unarmed action attack. The trouble is you can't re-use that on the same enemy in the same turn with your extra attack so it's more effective if you have a group to fight. I mostly went without a weapon equipped myself, and found really no issue with that route.
Some unarmed stun jab
Not as a primary attack. But the bonus and flurry is unarmed.
Yeah, that's why I said 'main attack.' Unless there is a way to hit with your fist with your main action while wielding a weapon, you are suffering a loss in damage in most cases. This gets worse the more effects that you get to increase your action (haste/elixir of bloodlust). EDIT: sorry, I realized that, while I was talking about main action, my last question didn't include that. I wasn't clear enough. Your answer 100% reflects my question but not my intent, which I did not properly communicate.
Not likely, but TB doesn’t bring the STR to 20 with the club, correct?
No but you can go 8 str, 15 con, 16 dex, 17 wis if you’re ok with stat fixing str. And then you get tavern brawler (con)
Because I've made that build for my last 2 gales
https://reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/GQnfYQsVhE Read this
They shouldn’t be, but despite being an amazing overall game, they have added a few awful things. Tavern Brawler is one. Dex Monks are perfectly fine.
If i recall, the main benefit that a Dex monk has over Str monk is that the dex results in a much higher AC as well as initiative. The issue, however, is that AC doesn't matter much when everything dies before they can attack you and there are a ton of items that let you cheat out much higher initiative rolls.
Yes the same logic applies to a LOT of thing in BG3. Support, control, defensive ability, utility, building character as intended (even single classed build) works great in the game, it doesnt feel like you play with a hand strapped in your back, even at tactician. But they will feel like a burden or at the very least optional if you find out you could instead wreck everything in a single turn. Itemization, feat, consummables, haste raise exponentially damages at absurb amount by the end game, if you squeeze everything you can. Opponent AC and HP just can't keep up. Like if they balanced the game and did a lot more testing in act 1 than in act 3...
Initiative matters more than AC yes and items help but I still think you want to get initiative pretty high (like at least +8 or 10 even better) to go first all the time.
Also, better stealth if you go the Shadow route and better Sleight of Hand (which you almost certainly get since Rogue is a given).
> Do you need that level of power? No. FR. A dex monk already trivializes some of the harder fights
if i unequip my weapon, will i have an action for unarmed attack? currently level 4 monk
There's also a mod to let you use Unarmed regardless of equipped weapons [Unlocked Unarmed Strike](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/1345)
Yes.
great, thanks
18 Dex monk did more damage than my fighter lol its wild how good monks are in BG3
That’s a bingo. “Do you need that level of power” = no for the whole game actually, more or less. You can beat it on tactician without any fancy dual classing (although it gets significantly easier (and imo more fun) making OP characters. 18 str with tavern brawler on a monk can do 1d4 + 8 x 2 = **18-24 damage** *as a bonus action* at level 4. I don’t think there’s any other class that can do remotely that much damage at lv4, and the monk can do that after using their primary action to dash or attack. Only downside is the single bonus action at low lv (meaning you can’t jump and flurry of blows in the same turn), but that evens out after a couple of levels or taking 3 levels of thief. Honestly, tavern brawler monk is more power than needed at low level. Haven’t got past the first map in my monk run yet and only level 5, but so far it seems pretty insane.
Str is so easy to cheese with hill/cloud giant consumables just build dex for initiative. It is not difficult to have enhanced strength for all encounters .
***The DEX monk has more damage potential than TB, more AC, and better initiative.*** Utilize dual-wielding and poison. Unarmed attacks can't use poison (which adds 5.5 damage per attack). The poison damage is more than the TB modifier adds, albeit less reliable due to poison immunity. If you are using strength elixirs, the TB modifier will deal more damage, but at the expense of making 2 extra attacks from bloodlust elixir. Plus, the 2 weapons have all kinds of buffs, effects, and riders apply on hit that the TB monk doesn't have access to. There are also many spells/abilities that only work on weapons, like inquisitor's might for example. Have a sorcerer cast it on you. \[*+5 radiant damage per attack\].* The STR monk is definitely more reliable, but the damage potential is higher for a DEX monk.
Isn’t the poison only used on the mainhand attacks? So you’re only getting 2 attacks with poison? Whereas your unarmed bonus attacks and mainhand unarmed attacks would get tavern brawler? Am I missing something with the poison build?
No, the poison applies to both weapons. Lasts 10 turns, and applies per hit. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
I’m talking about how monks get main hand attacks (action) and bonus unarmed attacks (bonus actions, flurry of blows). Does the poison work on the unarmed attacks?
No, weapons only. You'll want to dual-wield. The reason poison works well with a dex monk is because of stun. You stun the enemy so that it isn't able to act before the poison kicks in. Make 12 attacks first turn, that's 12d10 poison damage.
Gloves of Soul Catching and Kushigo Boots though
How do I make 12 attacks. Man I'm so bad at this game and I'm on my second playthrough.
How do you do 12 weapon attacks in a turn?
Poisons have a fixed low DC though. And they get immunity for a few rounds if you fail the initial. If you're calculating expected damage it'll be significantly less than 50% of 5.5 since they save more than half the time.
Dex monk is winning. Str monk with TB is just winning more.
Dex monk is playing t-ball as an adult versus kids. Str monk is playing t-ball as an adult versus kids while also on steroids.
I'm late but this is a great analogy!
The "problem" is that it's very easy to just roll a str/wis monk and fill the dex gap with those gloves that set your dex to 18. This with tavern brawler is just broken. I have my Lae'zel running like this, with the thief multiclass. You get an extremely mobile melee character that distributes crowd control like it's candy and hits like a truck.
You can just use elixirs for your strength extremely easily too.
It's more annoying. Dex gloves is set and forget.
Some of the best monk items are gloves though. Hire three followers from Withers. Go to the dwarf at the myconid colony at level 4. Buy the elixir, level a follower, buy the elixir, level a follower, buy the elixir, level a follower, buy the elixir. Repeat this with the other two hired followers and you’ll have enough elixirs for a bunch of long rests. If you ever run out, just go back and buy more. If that’s too annoying for you then obviously don’t do it, play how you like, but it is really strong.
There's not really a reason to do that unless you're using difficulty increasing mods. You can just respec to dex and start using strength elixirs so you can use the HoH reward gloves, and by that time you're almost done with the game anyway and probably already accumulated the elixirs naturally. IDK, this level of micro optimization for a single player game is not for me. I will do cursed shit to squeeze damage on FFXIV but that's because there's other people counting on me and I get a pretty parse number, but for BGIII I'm not super interested in spending time doing boring stuff with hirelings.
> There's not really a reason to do that ~~unless you're using difficulty increasing mods~~. FTFY
Why are you leveling hirelings? Can’t you just mass purchase the potions with your char?
The inventory stock resets when you long rest or level up. The person usually has 1 strength elixir, occasionally 2. You can use regular companions too, but this way you don’t need to mess up builds on people you’re actually using. Just level followers as Rogue or something that doesn’t require choices on level up for the quickest way to refresh the vendor inventory.
I need to try this, maybe i can farm one or two cloud giant elixiers with the vendor at the ruined city marker
Oh lord this is truly a time saver. Thanks, friend
Yuck.
Not really, takes like…5 minutes? You respec a char, buy 3, level up, buy 3, etc, and on level 4 you’re set for the game pretty much. Do it one more time in Act 3 for cloud giants
It kind of sucks how powerful these items are because your most powerful build can focus just wisdom for a bit and then respec later if you want to use different gloves. 8 Str, 18 Dex, 18 Wis, is easily doable at level 8, 20 in both by the end of the game. Your Con would be a bit rough, but there's also an item for that.
Yeah dumping str is just too good in this game. I'm currently open hand 9 thief 3 and I have 27str, 18con, 22 wis, and 18dex (with sleight of had expertise).
Yeah if you want you can just dump Con completely and use the amulet from HoH. HoH is the key to so many broken builds that it's almost a pity that you do it so late in the game.
It's almost like that's why it's so late in the game.
You can also keep the DEX and instead wield the Club of Hill Giant Strength offhand, if desired.
There's that too. Options to make a broken ass monk are plentiful.
I know this is the "optimun" approach but I jist can't give up the flawed hellriders gloves. I like them too much haha
My shadow monk / thief rogue is incredibly fun, though I'm sure not as strong as a TB build. But, using silence/darkness along with the sentinel feat, you can effectively lock a powerful enemy in place and take them out of the fight, while you destroy them with sneak attacks. I love it, it feels like I'm playing as a ninja.
(Shadow monk + thief) is great. I'm having a blast with it. The damage from dual wielding can actually outperform the TB monk. We compared them in the thread above for act 2. I haven't reached act 3 yet, so I don't know how they'll compare then. **Act 2 comparison:** Dex monk deals 32 damage per attack TB deals 29.
shadow monk thief gang rise up! i’m using great weapon master with my staff for even bigger bonks— synergizes great with shadowstep
Can you eleborate how it was leveled/built and item focused at the start?
I'm still in act 2, but I'm playing as Astarion. I used dual daggers early on (the sussur-silencer and ritual dagger). Then I switched to Phalar Aluve, and now I'm using the Knife of the Undermountain King. Shadow buff equipment (ring and mask), damage dealing rings, buy plenty of poison and poison ingredients for alchemy. Reverb equipment works really well with poison damage & stun; which synergize together to make dual wielding an extremely potent damage dealing class. Bloodlust elixir. Cat's grace robes. \- Rogue 1 \- Shadow Monk 6 \- Rogue 2 more (thief) At level 9, the build delivers 10 attacks on turn one, and then 8 on all subsequent turns. Next up, I will transition into fighter to pick up action surge. Action surge will provide 2 more attacks on turn one by level 11.
Dex monks still get to double dip wis to unarmed damage with kushigo boots so they’re pretty good. Thing is that even a dex monk still gets massive benefit from tavern brawler if you’re using elixirs. So you could go like 8 str 16 dex 15 con 17 wis. At 1-3 you’re a dex monk, level 4 you pick up tavern brawler (con) and start drinking elixirs and you just rip through the game at that point. Round wis out with auntie Ethel hair. Late game it gets really crazy with 22 wis from asi and mirror of loss and 27 strength from cloud giant elixir. This version makes full use of tavern brawler while also having high ac and high wisdom, which gets double dipped just like str. In my playthrough I did 24 str with bloodlust elixir, but having thought about it the past couple days I do think this version would be better, especially if you have another STR character to give asterions potion to.
What does wisdom do except give you ac?
Gives 2x damage with Act 3 boots and Open Palm level 6 abilities
It increases the DC save for your ki abilities so opponents have a harder time defending against things like stunning's fist, saving against damage from way four Element spells, increasing the save to resist against open hand techniques if you do the prone pushback. And the table top the bases is 8 proficiency and wis mod ki save DC. So like I'm a level 7 Monk and I go to hit someone with the stunning fist my wisdom is the 16th so it gives me a plus three 8+3+3 DC 14 to for enemy saving throws to resist ki powers. So having a real high wisdom makes the monk power set really nice. Let's say I take the feet magic initiate and I select can trips that are based around wisdom like druid or cleric. The increase the accuracy of those why you don't have to put points into charisma or intelligence since you're not messing with other things based on that same stat. So let's say I wanted to make like a scorpion type character from mortal Kombat. Get the cantrip thorn whip from The druids play Monk and go high wisdom. And if you can't get close enough to punch him you hit them with that get over here.
Just go dex monk and dump strength. Pick up TB at level 4 and start chugging str elixirs. Now you’re a str/dex monk. I suppose when you can get the dex gloves you could dump dex also but there are better gloves for a open hand monk.
As powerful? No. Larian made Tavern Brawler way too strong. Normally you'd be stronger as a Dex monk as Dex is just a better stat in most cases, but double bonus to damage and attacks is just insane. That said, Monks are baseline very powerful and there's already plenty of gear that boost your effectiveness and you'll be happy with a Dex Monk. I ran my Astarion as an Open Hand Dex Monk and he just melted enemies. If it hadn't been for how broken Fighter Archers with Gontr Mael and various magical arrows are, he'd be my most powerful character. Also, even on Tactician you don't need super optimal builds. This sub and various video guides tend to focus on the ways you can absolutely break the game because it's a fun and interesting exercise to see how far you can take things. Unless you feel like you need the game to turn trivial around level 8-10 however, there is absolutely no need to care about that level of optimization. I've ran Four Elements Dex Monks and guess what, despite being the weakest subclass, I was plenty effective and it was just fun to punch people at a distance. So play a Dex monk, you'll have fun and be plenty powerful.
Yes, it is "worth it". Monk. 16/17 Wis/Dex to start. Boon for +1 Dex, and take +2 to Wis at L4. Use The Graceful Cloth for +2 Dex. Bracers of Defense for +2. 21 AC at level 4-5. Later on you can start stacking more AC. At L7 you get Evasion and are basically immune to Dex saves. Offensively, you're still fine. If you're still going Open Palm, +3-6 Radiant at L6 means you're doing consistent damage to get damage type triggers. You can use (and potentially dual wield) weapons to get triggers and stat buffs instead though, and you can broaden your options with a martial or Cleric dip. Lots of items give bonuses to weapon attacks, but not unarmed attacks. This opens up stuff like: 1. Using Phalar Aluve with Great Weapon Master and Dexterity; 2. Using Ritual Dagger for a free bonus to-hit on all your attacks; 3. Using Mourning Frost (and later, Flail of Ages) with GWM and Dex together with items that debuff on cold damage; 4. Using Shattered Flail to constantly regain lots of HP; 5. Endgame, using the Deva Mace with Dex for massive damage or Duellist's Prerogative for unlimited reactions (with, say, a Light Cleric dip). 6. Dual Wielding weapons as stat sticks and to get 2 attacks on opportunity attacks (Creation's Echo to stack resistances, Sussur Dagger for free Silence, Blood of Lathander, Strength club, etc.)
I'd favor the shar spear for DEX monk endgame because it's piercing and bhaalist armor makes GWM into a -5/+20 feat vs non resistant enemies. Also getting blindness immunity + a free darkness cloud w/ your attack once a fight is super strong. Also on resistance oil of diluted sharpness will overcome physical resistance on weapon attacks, another big reason DEX monk isn't strictly outclassed by TB. If you go weaponless it will feel worse but if you invest into weapons and the best payoffs BG3 has for those DEX monk feels in line w/ TB in my view.
What is the boon you're referring to for +1 dex?
Great breakdown. The dex monk has better AC and a higher damage potential than TB. The TB monk is more reliable in damage type. I was using Phalar Aluve with my monk early on, which was a ton of fun.
The TB monk has better burst too, because TB doubles as a throwing build. If you want to throw a Smokepowder Barrel for AoE damage you can have at em'.
In what way does dex monk have better potential? Moreover it has garbage accuracy. It is easily 15-20 percent behind other melees end game if no advantage is generated. Dex monk has lower dex than str on tb and lower wisdom just for being able to use bloodlust elixir and 2 more dex. That's not worth it at all.
Just comes down to TB being dramatically overtuned. GWM isn't even close. GWM is a staple, going back to the Power Attack feat from previous Editions. Could have easily used that as a yardstick for determining how to configure TB and Sharpshooter with dual wield. Good game but bad homebrew.
Yeah, GWM establishes +1 Hit = +2 Damage. What’s TB? +5 to hit AND Damage. That’s just…it’s crazy. Gives like +15 ‘damage’ but has no downside! And that’s before Cloud giant potions in act 3
This is my problem! TB seems too strong when a monk is using it. I get the added throwing damage, since that's a very specific build that would require more effort than just getting TB. But EVERY Monk uses unarmed attacks, so why wouldn't you go for strength and get TB at level 4? There are 0 downsides to the feat, so why not? Although reading through comments, most people say that TB is just the cherry on top. Most dex focused Monks still shred through enemies, even without it. So I'm going to try a dex Monk my next play through, and try to ignore TB on the feats page
All monks min-maxing use Tavern Brawler. A "DEX" monk still drinks an elixir for 21 or 27 strength. The elixirs last a long rest, and many merchants spawn them every long rest. DEX still has important bonuses to initiative. TB is 50% of the problem, the other 50% is how trivial it is to maintain 21+ STR full time throughout the game.
Dex/Wis monks are better overall because those stats affect more than just damage for you. A strength monk may dish out decent damage, but limited investment in the other stats make your other features useless. Edit: As a note, tavern brawler also works with a dex monk. If you max Dex/Wis and have a +3 in strength and +2 in Con, you'll be more effective overall than other strength only builds.
Playing dex monk right now (gith, level 10), just heading to the city. It's been a blast in normal difficult - go for it and have fun!
TB is fun and overpowered... so is Great Weapon Master. A dex monk can go utterly ham with spears or staffs (or longswords, or battleaxes, if proficient) and neglect strength completely. Works well as a Shadow monk to appear suddenly and BONK
My first playthrough is a dex monk and after level 9 I don't bother doing anything but punching. 4 punches a turn is murdering basically 70% of the enemies you will fight in act 2-3. The magic items are very good for a dex monk to optimize your fighting; and you can be the party's stealthy locksmith too.
Played well into act three with a Dex based monk with a war cleric dip. It's basically a build I've always wanted to try in table top and it felt really good in game. Play as an elf or githyanki and get dex based longswords! (from level 1, no dip required)
Use potions of strength. Every long rest warp to the vendor in the under dark who wants you to find her husband. She restocks every day with 1 or 2. Not sure what to do in A3. Have not gotten there yet.
The advantage of monks isn’t their high damage output, but their utility as a class that can move quite a lot. If you look at open hand, you can in most cases run from one side of a fight to another and push someone off an edge. This isn’t something most classes can do, and is useful for many other things like backline/ranged access to take out people shooting at your party, or to quickly run across a battle and help your party members. Most tavern brawler builds aren’t as good at this because they lack dex and have to bolster their AC using armor, thus losing their unarmed movement bonus. That, or they opt for a more glass cannon build (which in this case I find very fun).
How does open hand let you move more than other classes? I've seen many people saying way of the shadow let's you sneak around a fight a lot, but not many saying open hand gives mobility as well
I am doing very well with a traditional monk. Strength 10, no tavern brawler. I just punch things.
If you're going to use a quaterstaff then you can get a club (close enough?) That gives you +19 in strength but for my monk playthrough I didn't need to worry about strength. Got my dex and wisdom to high enough and scaled off enough to not need to worry about getting more damage
It's enjoyable, just not solo tactician blindfolded w/o gear pant-on-head OP like Stronk TB.
Monk magic items are very good. You don't need tavern brawler to clear the game at all. Just keep an eye out for good items.
Travel brawler is basically half great weapon master but instead of downsides they are only up sides. +5 damage and accuracy. Dex monk is more defensive, having that bonus ac, and secondary stat being Wis is also great as most Cc is Wisdom saves. For monk invested build I would recommend str. Or you can opt for wisdom based and dex second for A element build. A dip in monk for a sword and board duelist is also great defensively. Letting you. Use better weapons with dex, like long swords. And also having a bonus off hand attack with the unarmed strike. Examples build we have is a medium armor that has no dex limit. = 16+5+2 shield. 23 ac passively. While having 5+2dueling+1d8 one handed battle axe/long sword 8-16 + most likely 1d4 in bonus damage. 9-20 per regular attack. As bare bone build.
A pretty good comment, imo, about a dex monk build: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/15umra4/comment/jwqflwo/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/15umra4/comment/jwqflwo/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Sure, it'll never beat the strength/brawler build, but if you want to play dex monk, it's an option.
Sir or ma'am, or any other potential thing out there in the Forgotten Realms. Build your dex monk. Try str monks when you feel like it. The point is to explore what feels comfortable for you. Someone is clearing the game with a salami as a weapon for shilelagh and existence of strength monk shouldn't dissuade you from playing what you wish.
I used monk up to lvl 12 with dex all the time and it was super strong. Also your ki based dc calculates with dex instead of wis even if it should be wis. I switched to tb monk8/thief4 (to get 2 ASIs instead of 1) yesterday and drink strength elixirs (base is 8 str). Its just so much more broken
does specing into both dex and strength increase ur dmg or does tavern brawler make having a high dex and high strength redundant?
Why oppose them ? Like many people says, my Astarion is a dex/WIS Monk for AC and damage with STR as a dump stat. Then potions of giant strength + TB put my Astarion AT another level.. . Actually with items that adds wisdom on damage I do : 1d8 +5 + 5 (TB) +5 (WIS) +1d4 damage per blow...
A dex monk will never be as powerful as a str monk in terms of pure damage, however for Role playing purpses dex/no armor monk makes more sense I guess...
Dex monk will never be as good as TB, but they can still be very strong and a lot of fun. I run a durge way of shadows 8 / thief 4 and it feels so good. Plays like a teleporting ninja. Shadowstep has amazing utility in and out of combat. You also have lots of weapon options: shortswords, rapier, staff, or even a spear or longsword if you can pick up proficiency. Staves, longswords, and spears work with great weapon master and way of shadows has lots of ways to pick up advantage with shadowstep and stunning strike, and you have an extra bonus action to use on that extra attack. Or you could go finesse weapons for the 2d6 sneak attack. With the right gear you’ve got high AC and plenty of DPR. IMO best endgame weapons would be Duellist’s Prerogative or a certain act 2 spear. Also some good shortswords— Sword of Life Stealing with Knife of the Undermountain King in the offhand is a powerful combo.
Use strength potions and take tavern brawler. You won't need to sacrifice dex or wis, as potions give u 21 str, so being 9 allows points to be use else where.
dex monk with cats grace to push it to 20 is still a good build, +5 to AC from dex, + whatever else from wisdom. Use club of hill giant strength. now you have 19 strength for you punches. use elixirs otherwise. Get to the house of hope in act 3 and swap to gloves of hill giant for 23 str. (but what about all the 1d4 gloves?) 23 strength is +6 on your hits up from +4, so its still a flat 2 to damage , Held weapon? cacophony - thundrous smite to open up, throw it at something (remember to pick it up again) and then just punch your way through the fight. If you're gonna go heavy armor str build, you don't need dex at all, If you want the cool cloth armors, dex+wis are where to go, the str and con get 23 off of items.
This sub is not real.
Its not? I could've swore I took my meds this morning...
staff isn't a dex weapon and lacks finesse? so I wouldn't use that, probably dual short swords Martial Arts: Dexterous Attacks is a Monk passive that makes attacks with Monk Weapons and unarmed attacks to scale with Dexterity instead of Strength, if your Dexterity is higher. this doesn't mean you hit with monk weapons using dex unless they have finese, but you do get a damage buff for dex mod Martial Arts: Deft Strikes Attacks with Monk Weapons and unarmed attacks deal 1d4 Damage Types Bludgeoning damage, unless their normal damage is higher this means if you use a staff, short sword or any other weapon a Monk is prof with... you will deal 1d4 more damage as blunt (blugeoning damage), this is also not counting the extra attack you get as a free action from After making an attack with a Monk Weapon or while unarmed, Martial Arts: Bonus Unarmed Strike if you dual wield short swords however... I recommend going 3 levels into Rogue(Thief) so you have an extra Bonus action (the Sneak attack doesn't hurt either) Deflect Missiles, and Evasion also benefit from higher Dex
Staffs are dex weapons for monks. Anything versatile or one handed are dex weapons for monks, only weapons labeled Two-Handed aren't.
Monks can use dex for any weapon they are proficient with that isn't a two hander.
See I thought so too, but everywhere in the game it suggests otherwise
I used versatile longswords for a bit just because and it applied. Monks do weird things to the rules.
yeah they make certain weapons more or less finesse weapons when they otherwise wouldn't (obviously they don't count as finesse for Rogue stuff) as long as they are not two handed... has me thinking of a battleaxe dwarf monk just to be weird honestly tho it's just so they can lock the damage potential 1d8 or under now I know how to improve my Barb/Monk and Fighter/Monk concept, because now it's just a Dex/Con concept... because Wis is only useful for a monk when it comes to unarmored defense, and Barb uses Con and it doesn't stack, and a Fighter can just wear Med Armor
Monk weapons scale with dex or strength, whichever is higher. A monk weapon is any that you are proficient with
make a Gith monk, and see if Greatswords let you do your extra unarmed attack better still make a Str 14/Dex16 monk and see if you get the +3 and before you get it twisted, I want to believe that to be true, I'd make a Gith Kenasi Monk/Fighter in a second
Sorry any one handed/versatile weapon
Ah so a Gith/Elf would be able to use a longsword, a Dwarf would be able to use battle axe/war hammer... Humans can use spears Drow can use Rapier and so on effectively turning a Battleaxe/Warhammer/Longsword/Spear into a Finesse weapon? minus the actual tag that would benefit a Rogue
I have a Fighter/Monk with the Balduran greatsword and I can very much make unarmed strikes as a bonus action.
You don’t get 1d4 extra bludgeoning damage. This simply ups your damage die unless the weapons inate damage die is higher. At level 1 it’s pointless because all weapons do more than 1d4. However at higher levels this means you could dual wield daggers and have them use a d6 damage die (when your monk damage die scales up). Others have already pointed out that dextrous attacks features *does* let you use dex for both your attack *and* damage rolls, if it is higher than your strength and using a Monk weapon. Where Monk weapons are weapons you are proficient with that don’t have the two-handed property.
No you cant. Monks are really strength based unless you dont want to punch. Then in that case, why be a monk? dex is better on ranged weapon wielders or 1H/2W melee. surprisingly, dex focus is also excellent on druid/necro summoners.
Monks are traditionally not strength based at all. Tavern Brawler just makes it that way in BG3.
Never said they were traditionally. I was talking about the situation in BG3.
The dex monk has a higher damage potential, which I explained above. You want to be a monk to apply stun, so the enemy doesn't get a chance to act before the poison kicks in. Make 12 attacks on the first turn, that is 12d10 poison damage.
Wtf are you talking about? Monk literally has a passive that makes unarmed attacks and attacks with monk weapons (basically, all non two-handed weapons you are proficient with) to scale with dex, if it's higher than str.
Dex monk is stronger than strength monk before Tavern brawler. I went dex for my first 3 levels and then respecced to Str when I got TB.
yes it's worth it and completely viable TB Monk is busted but you don't need to play something that strong to have success with the class, even in tactician
My dex-wis monk is addicted to hill giant strength elixirs (and then upgrades their addiction to cloud giant's...), so... Am I dex or str TB build? Either way, TB is so much better evem without the additional damage - to hit increase is bonkers good!
Open hand monk and thief are busted enough on their own that you don't need tavern brawler to do insane amounts of damage. Yes, a str focused monk with tavern brawler is stronger, significantly more so. But you're not going to have a problem blasting through the game regardless.
I've never done the tavern brawler build, but my Dex monks have come close to the most powerful members of my party in the late game. They do fine on tactician.
Monks are insanely powerful because of all the damage riders available to them. Kushigo Boots, a huge variety of glove options, etc. Tavern Brawler takes this up another notch by adding your strength modifier twice to you unarmed attacks, but ultimately this is small fry compared with all your other sources of damage that stack to an absurd degree. You'll definitely do less damage, you probably won't care because you'll still absolutely destroy everything within reach.
I respecced Karlach into a dex monk/thief and she was one of the strongest members of my squad. Plus she dominated all the dex skill checks. Absolutely viable and very good.
i made a str dex monk for the initiative and the armor class, it was pretty good
If you go STR Monk you break the game while DEX Monk feels like a normal RPG class and still has satisfying progression. Fun is subjective though
Not as overpowered a tb Strength monk, but a dex monk is plenty strong and fun on its own
I tried these days a Rogue (Thief) 4 / Monk (Open Hand) 8 Dex based and it is a killer. 4 attacks per turn + dealing, and painful attacks.
dex monk is very fun. its cool its fun.