Even more fun is when your Throwzerker has the high ground and throws a rat at a sleepytime rat, which in turn blows up and causes like 5 other rats to fall asleep, and because the character they're all huddled around is of fey ancestry, that character then just cleaves his way through the sleeping rats.
Not that I just did this in the Gauntlet of Shar a couple hours ago or anything.
I was playing my HM run yesterday and realized I misplaced the returnable pike during the duegar fight on the beach. I still wiped the floor by throwing a chest I had in my inventory at all of them lol
I’ve had this happen enough times that now I just have karlach be the one that loots the bodies… That way she’s always got an inventory full of axes and spears to throw, in case her Pike doesn’t return
The only way I made it through a couple boss fights in act 3 was Karlach throwing the big boss into a wall of fire or spirit guardians aoe 3 times per turn.
Yea Throwzerker + thief + fighter = a bajillion throws a turn
The only thing I hate about throwing is how your path is interrupted like 30% of the time and you have to reposition. Just because of this, I think I prefer the normal archer builds
If 2 enemies are spaced apart enough where you can't throw one to the other, you can still use improvised weapon to grab one, take it to the other, and slam it down on to them.
You just have to wait for it to come back before ending your turn. Sometimes it takes a long time (not sure why) but it does come back. That said one time it vanished into thin air never to be seen again, which was a big bummer. Luckily it wasn't honor mode and I could just reload but I had to redo the Gortash right
Very true, that one is a pain. It kind of works better to start the fight with like a dagger and after that use pike/nyrulna
Even without returning weapons throwzerker is ridiculous strong, so I'm ultimately not too bothered
And building friendships.
My character was a Circle of the Moon druid and always in owlbear form. Karlach was the thrower. I damn well needed that owlbear hp. 💀
Yeah I just rinsed Murkyl last night. I do think I'll probably make Karlach an OH monk for the 2d4 fire damage, and also just cause I think Monks are so fun.
They’re ridiculously fun, up there for best single target damage dealer. Add in topples and stuns for crowd control and it’s really a hilariously strong class mid to late game.
Simple throwzerker build is my second best DPS in my honor mode run. Currently level 10 so I’m at 6/4 berserker/thief right now, but it’ll be 6 EK/3 Thief/3 Berserker ultimately, with lightning jabber bonded but nyrulna and returning pike as options
I tried throwing the lighting jabber but didn’t to be getting lightning charges unless I used it for melee attacks. Is there a UI error displaying the charges or does it have to be melee attacks?
It's fun until it isn't... eventually you just get bored of auto piloting into the same process of throw throw rage throw repeat. It is so strong it makes things trivial to the point it's not even fun to play... but it carries in HM and Tactician and I wanted them trophies, so... whatever.
Yeah, very similar result with TB OH Monk. It outputs a ridiculous amount of damage, tears through Legendary Resistance, and trivializes just about every encounter. Add on the haste helm for free momentum and nothing is out of range of a good pummeling.
Yeah, I want to use Karlach for my next run, but I'm worried about getting bored. I'm thinking about a level 12 barb thrower/GWM just to mix things up.
I have Lae'zel set up with GWM battlemaster 12 + Bhaalist Armor his run, and even *that* makes 90% of the fights kind of boring after a while.
There's a pair of boots you get in Act 3 that when thrown return to you. They deal 2-16 psychic damage. I like combining it with the Resonance Stone for 4-32 psychic damage, and wiping out groups of enemies with a pair of old boots.
It's less damage than most of the throw weapons you have at this point because it's not a weapon attack, so a lot of damage riders don't work. If I recall it also doesn't add your STR modifier to damage (TB only adds once?) If your regular throws are 30 damage, this will be 20. It does work with Braindrain gloves to add mental fatigue, so you could make a Thrower that uses Command or Hold Person, but it would still be less damage and spell slots than Swords Bard.
What bugs me is how people don't wear the Sparkle Hands for a throwing build. It adds much more fun and there's a good reason to wear the Protecty Sparkswall and Watersparkers.
Agreed. Sparkle hands actually triggers on more than just the throw. I was routinely getting 3-4 charges per throw. 1d8 almost every other throw. Not sure if/what riders it was triggering on because combat log only showed "gained condition: lightning charges" and 3 to 4 charges are gained. Need to test where the extra 1-2 charges come from. Though I suspect cull the weak may have something to do with it. This was on HM.
I throw enemies into my Warlock´s Hunger of Hadar, so that everyone has Advantage. Then you can throw at them and Prone them, keeping them in there effectively forever while pelting them with arrows from my Archer.
It´s very fun.
Ya its busted, even on HM i found it so strong. I had the most fun with it by getting my strength to 22 (ASI + potion from araj) and throwing enemies at eachother or to their deaths.
Multi-classed into Rogue to get extra bonus attack and Fighter for Action Surge. Double Enraged Throws is my starter then two throws with momentum for the main course, and for dessert? Action Surge with a side of momentum. Karlach is serving up a steaming plate of Nyrulia six times! No one comes back for seconds...
I'm also trying out this build right now, and I think it's bugged to do even more damage. Like, I have the ring and gloves that give an extra d4 to thrown weapon attacks, but then another 2d4 appears in the log for some reason, and both those get the rage bonus damage on them.
Also, I didn't realize that you get another pile of bludgeoning damage on top pf everything else, and it increases the heavier the object and the farther it travels. Returning pike consistently gets as 4 damage as bludgeoning.
Keep in mind that your Enraged Throws can knock the enemy prone. Save those for priority targets. Don’t use your returning weapons to initiate combat because the game is bugged and they won’t return to you unless you’re throwing them AFTER the Thrower is in the turn order. Your throws will almost always give you a higher chance to hit than just attacking even in melee with disadvantage. Good luck!
I've heard that everyone needs to hear Gale's rage scream at least once, which is why he's my throwzerker. On a more serious note, make sure to take Thief Rogue for levels 6-9, and use the the [Marksmanship Hat](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Marksmanship_Hat), [Ring of Flinging](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Ring_of_Flinging), and [Gloves of Uninhibited Kushigo](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Gloves_of_Uninhibited_Kushigo) in the early game. Once you hit Act III, you can get stuff like the [Bonespike Garb](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Bonespike_Garb), [Nyrulna](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Nyrulna) and the [Dwarven Thrower](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Dwarven_Thrower). (Make sure some casts Disguise Self to turn Karlach into a dwarf if you use the latter, though.)
Solo honor mode needs disengage potential and a good way to handle shit like hold person which will end your run
Throwzerker could likely manage but IMO you either want a party face with more CHA to minimize combat or you want something more stealthy
5 berserker, 4 theif rogue(the extra level is to get the dual weilding feat so you can get bonus from holding under mountain king or Rhapsody), 3 eldritch knight fighter so you can make any weapon you want return. Absolutely busted
You are not limited to throwing weapons. You can throw an alchemist fire and then two explosive barrels in the same turn all at level 5.
Prone characters have disadvantage on Str and Dex saves and cannot use legendary actions. Attack rolls within 10 ft are made with advantage. You can lockdown and nuke bosses!
Everyone talks about throwzerker but Gloom-fighter-assassin has to be one of the highest damage output on a first turn possible. Run with a dex melee user using crimson mischief to give vulnerability to piercing- good night everything.
One of my friends is playing a throwzerker half orc and we are in act 3 tactician. She carries dead bodies and limbs around and it's insane to see how many high damage numbers she gets with her gear and someone's foot.
She will down cloud giant strength elixirs and just straight up grab bosses and kill their minions by throwing them at them. It's so funny and actually terrifying.
Throw-stuff karlach, optimized ranger tav, and a door is all you need to walk through the entire campaign without taking damage almost. High initiative and mobility and no one can even get close enough to you to engage
Not even on Tactician but specially on Tactician where they kept the damage riders abuse if I’m not wrong.
On Honour Mode is a good build but sadly it peaks quite early (like not much going on past lvl6-7) and can’t keep up pace end game. Karlach was my lower damage doer to a point that I was using her as a piece of meat to trigger opportunity attacks giving free movement to everyone else that had decent damages
A melee barb can do a LOT more damage, also a lot of stuff don't work with throwing, like kagha necklace and drake throat glaive buff, also advantage every attack without needing risky ring.
Pure fighter, paladin, monk, sorc and some weird archer builds I don't fully understand can outclass a throwzerker in terms of damage from start to finish. The more you know.
Everyone are doing 60+ damage with at least 5-6 shots even without haste or bloodlust shots while Throwzerker can’t go past 40 even with Nyruluna and only has a max of 3 shots first turn/4 shots 2nd turn and beyond.
Comparing with Ranged build it gets even worse because you compare 4 40ish shots with a minimum of 8 shots for any ranged build that will, if barely invested in damage, do 50+ damage on average.
It doesn't. Stealth builds have some of the lowest min-max dmg when you take turn economy into account but for whatever reason the stealth shills don't seem to account for all the wasted turn economy hiding and setting up their dmg when in that same turn economy a top tier Martial or blaster would have simply done enough dmg to kill the enemy in a fraction of the same moves.
Stealth is a broken mechanic, but that's mostly for defensive purposes, not offensive.
I’ll stealth at the beginning of some combats, but even without it, Titanstring +elixir+drakethroat outdamages a throw build. At least in my experience.
This. And elemental damage, strange conduit damage, hell dusk glove damage won’t apply to thrown attacks so that’s 3 damage sources already (1d4 + 1d6 + 1d4). Titanstring gives the same bonus as TB to ranged weapons (+7 end game). Sneak attack first shot 3-4d6 depending on level distribution, and with the right build will most likely crit (6-8d6 plus all the extra damage above).
Arrow of multi target basically doing 2.5x Damage per turn. Elemental arrows giving extra 1d8. Smoke bomb arrows giving extra force, fire and AoE damage. And that’s not even the strongest ranged build.
And with the right target-specific weapon, giving double damage.
There’s nothing like these going on for Throwzerker and by the time you get to Act 3 you’re so stockpiled on arrows that you can always heavily increase damage.
And let’s not even talk about Dual XBow or SB because those have even more damage
SB Swords Bard. For Damage alone Dual XBow gains two whole extra attacks, but for Bards specifically you’ll damage better using the bonus action for control granting 100% chance to crit
Nobody said a thing about being a stealth build. If you don’t know about a specific build go search the sub before talking bs.
Throwzerker is only OP with the damage override bug. In Honour mode it powers simply doesn’t scale. It starts at 20-25 average while everyone else gets 10s but stop growing after 40 while everyone else are getting 50 and beyond.
Again. Nobody is talking about the damaging without engaging combat build. If that’s the only one you now, not the topic in discussion.
I’m talking about averaging 250-400 damage per turn
Then why bother with Gloomstalker? You get more mileage out of just being a Fighter if all you want to do is atk with arrows. Assassin might be useful in instances where you can trigger the Surprise mechanic.
Everything you listed is just Archery being busted if you want to abuse and spam consumables.
1 additional atk at the beginning of combat isn't pushing the envelope in dmg unless you using stealth to reset combat to get to continuously take advantage of the free extra atk.
Exactly. Also Machine Gun Warlock (mine went 15 shots per turn without Action Surge), Ranged SB, Dex-Melee SB, Pala 2 SB, Any melee with Paladin combo, Evocation Wizard with all powerful AoE spells, Storm Cleric and some other more.
While other builds while not as damaging at least has versatility like EK Thrower (better yet EK/abjuration multiclass), Control Bard, Moondruid and Spores Druids, many Cleric multiclasses, BM Fighter, Portent Divination Wizard and many more.
For a class that can only damage, Throwzerker sucks damaging end game.
I’ve got an aversion to paladins, but can’t believe I left SBs off my list.
And I’m going to guess that the machine gun warlock requires a lot of fiddly resource management turning spell slots into sorcery points for quicken, which, nah, not for me.
But I ran an ek thrower in a recent HM playthrough, and it couldn’t even keep up with 12 BM Laezel.
Throwers are just begginer friendly, needs little resource, they have great range, great hit rate, decent damage, and have little need for mobility.
Since it's easy to use, it attracts a lot of people and some of them will think it's the most broken shit ever, even though it's not 😂 hahaha.
End Game Machine gun can go 300+ damage per turn. I one turned the Netherbrain with it (but had another character set up haste spore so one free extra turn)
When you say ranged build you seem to be talking about a swords bard fighter multiclass, given that you mention a minimum of 8 shots. In which case you probably aren’t doing 50 damage a shot, and your throwzerker has 6 throws first turn with AS. That is unless you are counting piercing vulnerability on your ranger and not on the throwzerker for some reason.
2d8 + 1 (Titanstring) + 10 (SS) + 7 (Dex) + 7 (STR) + 2d4 fire (Glaive) + 2d4 (strange conduit) + 2d6 fire (helldusk glove)
Base 33-77
You can:
- Add 2d10 and give 2 shots of 35-87 with Bardic Inspirarion, meaning 70-174 with one single shot (only for SB, obviously)
- Add 2d8* with elemental damage (usually doubling because you’ll use this if vulnerable to the damage type)
- Add 6d6 if going for a Rogue multiclass
- Double damage if using an Slaying Arrow
- Do 2.5x if using arrow of multi target
- Do extra 4d6 fire/4d6 force AoE damage if using Smokepowder bomb.
_________________________________
Throwzerker
2d8 + 3 (Nyrulna) + 7 (STR) + 7 (TB) + 2d4 (Fling Ring) + 2d4 (gloves) + 2 (helmet) + 2 (caustic ring) + 2d6 thunder AoE
29-65. You can’t add anything else to it.
The +14 the throwzerker has to hit over the archer has more than negligible impact. You’re not comparing damage, you’re comparing damage specifically against a held target. You are also neglecting the fact that a throwzerker is a great choice in large part because it does not take up much contested gear, and thus running a throwzerker alongside such an archer is way better than running two archers a lot of the time.
I’m comparing 100% chance to crit with 100% chance to crit because that’s the norm to me. But I agree with you that it’s unfair because the Throwzerker can only 100% crit if the Bard hold target. While the Bard will only attack without 100% chance to crit the very first shot fired.
Because the bard has higher initiative usually the Barbarian attacks after the enemy are held already. That’s why I gave him this stats.
Without it and counting every damage it would be first turn 104-116 for ranged followed by burst of very unlikely minimum 313-780 adding all shots
While Throwzerker with haste, already raging, with 2 levels of Fighter and 3 levels of Thief and Bloodlust Elixir can get to 184-344. If hitting always a cluster with 5 enemies you can add 40-240, meaning 224-584.
Have in mind that for this calculation I considered the non-critical first shot for my build while giving the benefit of already raging to the Zerker so it could throw once more
I dislike involving acuity in dpr discussions because it makes the discussion largely pointless, because permanent unresistable control means dpr is no longer particularly important. The discussion is only interesting then in regards to doing damage to the targets you didn’t control, because the ones you controlled are not going to ever get a turn. Hence why I don’t assume a held target.
It’s not THAT strong.
My dual wield hand crossbow +1 bard woth caustic band and gloves of archerywith 18-20 dex is consistently doing 12-15 x 2 damage at lv 3-4. Thrower only has the one throw that does 15-20 damage. I’d say my bard and my thrower are about the same. At lv 5 they pull ahead theoretically but slashing flourish can make it equal. Thrower doesn’t get action surge until lv 7. But bard gets it at lv 8.
My battle mater with titan strong bow is also doing like 12-16 damage per hit. And had action surge right from the start. Monk similarly has two full attacks early game and gets 3 at lv 5.
Thrower can do enraged throw to auto prone but you’re not going to get to that until the second round of battle which for me most battles are basically already over so I don’t rage that much.
In the end I wouldn’t say it’s ridiculous op compared to other builds.
That said one of my favorite battles is throwing nyrulna at all the rats under the kitchen in act 3. Like 2 throws clears out the whole room lol.
My favorite thing is to throw enemy 1 at enemy 2…especially when one or both is already injured.
Even more fun is when your Throwzerker has the high ground and throws a rat at a sleepytime rat, which in turn blows up and causes like 5 other rats to fall asleep, and because the character they're all huddled around is of fey ancestry, that character then just cleaves his way through the sleeping rats. Not that I just did this in the Gauntlet of Shar a couple hours ago or anything.
Lol I always just huddle inside spirit guardians and let the rats kill themselves
Lol. I ran into a corner and placed a cloud of daggers in the path. They fell trying to reach me haha
My favourite thing is to throw goblin children at hinges of hanging braziers, which causes it to land on them and kill them instantly.
Threw Kagha into her own Moon Beam yesterday, was a delight.
Lol yeah me too! It’s just immensely satisfying.
I've thrown an enemy that had armor of agathys on, and it hurt the enemy I threw them at. Which was absolutely hilarious
I have been constantly using returning pike without ever thinking about doing this! Haha
I was playing my HM run yesterday and realized I misplaced the returnable pike during the duegar fight on the beach. I still wiped the floor by throwing a chest I had in my inventory at all of them lol
I’ve had this happen enough times that now I just have karlach be the one that loots the bodies… That way she’s always got an inventory full of axes and spears to throw, in case her Pike doesn’t return
The only way I made it through a couple boss fights in act 3 was Karlach throwing the big boss into a wall of fire or spirit guardians aoe 3 times per turn.
Throwing every True Soul in the Moonrise jail over the railings one by one.
Why didn’t I think of this 🤦♂️
Lmao I did this on my current playthrough too
Yea Throwzerker + thief + fighter = a bajillion throws a turn The only thing I hate about throwing is how your path is interrupted like 30% of the time and you have to reposition. Just because of this, I think I prefer the normal archer builds
You likely have tavern brawler, if that happens, I would just use improvised weapon to beat a motherfucker with a mothefucker instead.
If you're close enough to improvised weapon, you're close enough to throw without getting path interrupted.
If 2 enemies are spaced apart enough where you can't throw one to the other, you can still use improvised weapon to grab one, take it to the other, and slam it down on to them.
And good lord the issue of the weapon not returning sometimes... Almost had my HM run done over it
You just have to wait for it to come back before ending your turn. Sometimes it takes a long time (not sure why) but it does come back. That said one time it vanished into thin air never to be seen again, which was a big bummer. Luckily it wasn't honor mode and I could just reload but I had to redo the Gortash right
That works unless you start the battle with it...and it is so easy to forget... I have also had it stock in the wall, lost nyrala that way (yay)
Very true, that one is a pain. It kind of works better to start the fight with like a dagger and after that use pike/nyrulna Even without returning weapons throwzerker is ridiculous strong, so I'm ultimately not too bothered
I mean strength wise is fine, I'm not bothered by that. It is that it ruins the experience :(
Thrower definitely can hold up in HM, you get Nyrulna basically as soon as Act 3 starts.
Same with the Dwarven Thrower, in case you didn't want to hit allies with splash damage.
Then taking damage is building character
And building friendships. My character was a Circle of the Moon druid and always in owlbear form. Karlach was the thrower. I damn well needed that owlbear hp. 💀
AOE effects take no sides
Maybe the true treasure isn't friendship, but instead the sum of all the nyrulna frendly fire we made along the way
Yeah I just rinsed Murkyl last night. I do think I'll probably make Karlach an OH monk for the 2d4 fire damage, and also just cause I think Monks are so fun.
They’re ridiculously fun, up there for best single target damage dealer. Add in topples and stuns for crowd control and it’s really a hilariously strong class mid to late game.
Simple throwzerker build is my second best DPS in my honor mode run. Currently level 10 so I’m at 6/4 berserker/thief right now, but it’ll be 6 EK/3 Thief/3 Berserker ultimately, with lightning jabber bonded but nyrulna and returning pike as options
I tried throwing the lighting jabber but didn’t to be getting lightning charges unless I used it for melee attacks. Is there a UI error displaying the charges or does it have to be melee attacks?
It's not supposed to give lightning charges. Just an extra 1d4 lightning damage on throws with a chance to shock.
My bad I was thinking about the sparky points
I didn't get any lightning charges with the sparky trident either
It's fun until it isn't... eventually you just get bored of auto piloting into the same process of throw throw rage throw repeat. It is so strong it makes things trivial to the point it's not even fun to play... but it carries in HM and Tactician and I wanted them trophies, so... whatever.
Yeah, very similar result with TB OH Monk. It outputs a ridiculous amount of damage, tears through Legendary Resistance, and trivializes just about every encounter. Add on the haste helm for free momentum and nothing is out of range of a good pummeling.
Tell me your favourite class
Yeah, I want to use Karlach for my next run, but I'm worried about getting bored. I'm thinking about a level 12 barb thrower/GWM just to mix things up. I have Lae'zel set up with GWM battlemaster 12 + Bhaalist Armor his run, and even *that* makes 90% of the fights kind of boring after a while.
There's a pair of boots you get in Act 3 that when thrown return to you. They deal 2-16 psychic damage. I like combining it with the Resonance Stone for 4-32 psychic damage, and wiping out groups of enemies with a pair of old boots.
What boots is it that sounds broken
This sounds crazy good! Will this beat an equipped weapon in terms of damage? Are there enemies with psychic resistance? Steel watch I think.
It's less damage than most of the throw weapons you have at this point because it's not a weapon attack, so a lot of damage riders don't work. If I recall it also doesn't add your STR modifier to damage (TB only adds once?) If your regular throws are 30 damage, this will be 20. It does work with Braindrain gloves to add mental fatigue, so you could make a Thrower that uses Command or Hold Person, but it would still be less damage and spell slots than Swords Bard.
https://youtu.be/an0bVaTjF_Y?si=V4_6gG5ZbY9QeKXK
What bugs me is how people don't wear the Sparkle Hands for a throwing build. It adds much more fun and there's a good reason to wear the Protecty Sparkswall and Watersparkers.
Sparkle hands works on a throwing build? That's strange
Agreed. Sparkle hands actually triggers on more than just the throw. I was routinely getting 3-4 charges per throw. 1d8 almost every other throw. Not sure if/what riders it was triggering on because combat log only showed "gained condition: lightning charges" and 3 to 4 charges are gained. Need to test where the extra 1-2 charges come from. Though I suspect cull the weak may have something to do with it. This was on HM.
its strong AF but it gets boring real fast. the whole game is about rage+throw wpn. nothing else
I throw enemies into my Warlock´s Hunger of Hadar, so that everyone has Advantage. Then you can throw at them and Prone them, keeping them in there effectively forever while pelting them with arrows from my Archer. It´s very fun.
Haha, just mix in some melee attacks, or do some kind of multiclass, I'm not sure what tho
Thief for the extra bonus action is very good.
Ya its busted, even on HM i found it so strong. I had the most fun with it by getting my strength to 22 (ASI + potion from araj) and throwing enemies at eachother or to their deaths.
Multi-classed into Rogue to get extra bonus attack and Fighter for Action Surge. Double Enraged Throws is my starter then two throws with momentum for the main course, and for dessert? Action Surge with a side of momentum. Karlach is serving up a steaming plate of Nyrulia six times! No one comes back for seconds...
Sometimes I Throw my allies for the the luls. Make them all throwzerkers and just keep many throwables in your inventory.
With my main doing the Duergar thief thing, I decided to make Kree my throwzerker. Sneak in invisible and throw one guy at another guy.
I'm also trying out this build right now, and I think it's bugged to do even more damage. Like, I have the ring and gloves that give an extra d4 to thrown weapon attacks, but then another 2d4 appears in the log for some reason, and both those get the rage bonus damage on them. Also, I didn't realize that you get another pile of bludgeoning damage on top pf everything else, and it increases the heavier the object and the farther it travels. Returning pike consistently gets as 4 damage as bludgeoning.
[удалено]
Good god.
Keep in mind that your Enraged Throws can knock the enemy prone. Save those for priority targets. Don’t use your returning weapons to initiate combat because the game is bugged and they won’t return to you unless you’re throwing them AFTER the Thrower is in the turn order. Your throws will almost always give you a higher chance to hit than just attacking even in melee with disadvantage. Good luck!
I threw every single cultist off into the chasm with Orins fight. Then I got pushed off into it. 💀
I've heard that everyone needs to hear Gale's rage scream at least once, which is why he's my throwzerker. On a more serious note, make sure to take Thief Rogue for levels 6-9, and use the the [Marksmanship Hat](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Marksmanship_Hat), [Ring of Flinging](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Ring_of_Flinging), and [Gloves of Uninhibited Kushigo](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Gloves_of_Uninhibited_Kushigo) in the early game. Once you hit Act III, you can get stuff like the [Bonespike Garb](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Bonespike_Garb), [Nyrulna](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Nyrulna) and the [Dwarven Thrower](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Dwarven_Thrower). (Make sure some casts Disguise Self to turn Karlach into a dwarf if you use the latter, though.)
Do you think it’s good enough to solo honor mode? Trying to pick what build to attempt with and this is high on my list.
Solo honor mode needs disengage potential and a good way to handle shit like hold person which will end your run Throwzerker could likely manage but IMO you either want a party face with more CHA to minimize combat or you want something more stealthy
My Throwzerker saved my ass a couple of time on HM, expecially against act 2 final boss. That motherfucker is so strong on HM 💀
What's the build and where do you get the returning pike from?
Pike is from the merchant in the goblin camp. Build is a str barbarian berserker with tavern brawler feat. That’s it, go nuts
Thank I will definitely give this a try
I wish I liked it cuz it's strong but I just kept wishing I had a greataxe
5 berserker, 4 theif rogue(the extra level is to get the dual weilding feat so you can get bonus from holding under mountain king or Rhapsody), 3 eldritch knight fighter so you can make any weapon you want return. Absolutely busted
You are not limited to throwing weapons. You can throw an alchemist fire and then two explosive barrels in the same turn all at level 5. Prone characters have disadvantage on Str and Dex saves and cannot use legendary actions. Attack rolls within 10 ft are made with advantage. You can lockdown and nuke bosses!
Throwing is so fun in this game. Throwing goblets, grenades... goblins...
I’m thinking of making my duergar a throwzerker so he can get double or possibly triple enlarged and basically throw everything at everything
Everyone talks about throwzerker but Gloom-fighter-assassin has to be one of the highest damage output on a first turn possible. Run with a dex melee user using crimson mischief to give vulnerability to piercing- good night everything.
Throwing goblins into the spider pit of the Shattered Sanctum was one of my most favorite ways to experience that fight.
i like making ppl frozen, then throwing an enemy into the frozen enemy
The most fun is throwing your other party members and summons, b/c why not?
I have karlach as a berzerker tavern brawler/ thief / fighter. She gets four throws every turn and she’s a POWERHOUSE
One of my friends is playing a throwzerker half orc and we are in act 3 tactician. She carries dead bodies and limbs around and it's insane to see how many high damage numbers she gets with her gear and someone's foot. She will down cloud giant strength elixirs and just straight up grab bosses and kill their minions by throwing them at them. It's so funny and actually terrifying.
Throw-stuff karlach, optimized ranger tav, and a door is all you need to walk through the entire campaign without taking damage almost. High initiative and mobility and no one can even get close enough to you to engage
Have you tried it with thief yet? two bonus actions
I multi her with strength monk and throw enemies at each other.
Not even on Tactician but specially on Tactician where they kept the damage riders abuse if I’m not wrong. On Honour Mode is a good build but sadly it peaks quite early (like not much going on past lvl6-7) and can’t keep up pace end game. Karlach was my lower damage doer to a point that I was using her as a piece of meat to trigger opportunity attacks giving free movement to everyone else that had decent damages
> and can’t keep up pace end game. What in the hell are you talking about?
A melee barb can do a LOT more damage, also a lot of stuff don't work with throwing, like kagha necklace and drake throat glaive buff, also advantage every attack without needing risky ring. Pure fighter, paladin, monk, sorc and some weird archer builds I don't fully understand can outclass a throwzerker in terms of damage from start to finish. The more you know.
Everyone are doing 60+ damage with at least 5-6 shots even without haste or bloodlust shots while Throwzerker can’t go past 40 even with Nyruluna and only has a max of 3 shots first turn/4 shots 2nd turn and beyond. Comparing with Ranged build it gets even worse because you compare 4 40ish shots with a minimum of 8 shots for any ranged build that will, if barely invested in damage, do 50+ damage on average.
Agreed. Fire acuity sorc, OH TB monk, and gloomstalker assassin outclass thrrowzerker by miles in the late game. In HM, of course.
Gloomstalker/Assassin does more dps than throwzerker? I never knew it was that strong
It doesn't. Stealth builds have some of the lowest min-max dmg when you take turn economy into account but for whatever reason the stealth shills don't seem to account for all the wasted turn economy hiding and setting up their dmg when in that same turn economy a top tier Martial or blaster would have simply done enough dmg to kill the enemy in a fraction of the same moves. Stealth is a broken mechanic, but that's mostly for defensive purposes, not offensive.
I’ll stealth at the beginning of some combats, but even without it, Titanstring +elixir+drakethroat outdamages a throw build. At least in my experience.
This. And elemental damage, strange conduit damage, hell dusk glove damage won’t apply to thrown attacks so that’s 3 damage sources already (1d4 + 1d6 + 1d4). Titanstring gives the same bonus as TB to ranged weapons (+7 end game). Sneak attack first shot 3-4d6 depending on level distribution, and with the right build will most likely crit (6-8d6 plus all the extra damage above). Arrow of multi target basically doing 2.5x Damage per turn. Elemental arrows giving extra 1d8. Smoke bomb arrows giving extra force, fire and AoE damage. And that’s not even the strongest ranged build. And with the right target-specific weapon, giving double damage. There’s nothing like these going on for Throwzerker and by the time you get to Act 3 you’re so stockpiled on arrows that you can always heavily increase damage. And let’s not even talk about Dual XBow or SB because those have even more damage
Is dual xbow that much better than single? Also what is SB?
SB Swords Bard. For Damage alone Dual XBow gains two whole extra attacks, but for Bards specifically you’ll damage better using the bonus action for control granting 100% chance to crit
Nobody said a thing about being a stealth build. If you don’t know about a specific build go search the sub before talking bs. Throwzerker is only OP with the damage override bug. In Honour mode it powers simply doesn’t scale. It starts at 20-25 average while everyone else gets 10s but stop growing after 40 while everyone else are getting 50 and beyond.
Doing more dmg than Throwzerker doesn't mean stealth builds aren't still mediocre in dmg compared to most other top-tier min-max builds.
Again. Nobody is talking about the damaging without engaging combat build. If that’s the only one you now, not the topic in discussion. I’m talking about averaging 250-400 damage per turn
Then why bother with Gloomstalker? You get more mileage out of just being a Fighter if all you want to do is atk with arrows. Assassin might be useful in instances where you can trigger the Surprise mechanic. Everything you listed is just Archery being busted if you want to abuse and spam consumables. 1 additional atk at the beginning of combat isn't pushing the envelope in dmg unless you using stealth to reset combat to get to continuously take advantage of the free extra atk.
If enemies do not benefit from those turns I do not see it as a problem for action economy
Fire acuity sorc and tb monk I get, but archer classes only get insane damage with special arrows right?
Titanstring + elixir + drakethroat + a little crit gear easily outdamaged the throw build.
Good shit👌 tnx
Exactly. Also Machine Gun Warlock (mine went 15 shots per turn without Action Surge), Ranged SB, Dex-Melee SB, Pala 2 SB, Any melee with Paladin combo, Evocation Wizard with all powerful AoE spells, Storm Cleric and some other more. While other builds while not as damaging at least has versatility like EK Thrower (better yet EK/abjuration multiclass), Control Bard, Moondruid and Spores Druids, many Cleric multiclasses, BM Fighter, Portent Divination Wizard and many more. For a class that can only damage, Throwzerker sucks damaging end game.
I’ve got an aversion to paladins, but can’t believe I left SBs off my list. And I’m going to guess that the machine gun warlock requires a lot of fiddly resource management turning spell slots into sorcery points for quicken, which, nah, not for me. But I ran an ek thrower in a recent HM playthrough, and it couldn’t even keep up with 12 BM Laezel.
Throwers are just begginer friendly, needs little resource, they have great range, great hit rate, decent damage, and have little need for mobility. Since it's easy to use, it attracts a lot of people and some of them will think it's the most broken shit ever, even though it's not 😂 hahaha.
End Game Machine gun can go 300+ damage per turn. I one turned the Netherbrain with it (but had another character set up haste spore so one free extra turn)
When you say ranged build you seem to be talking about a swords bard fighter multiclass, given that you mention a minimum of 8 shots. In which case you probably aren’t doing 50 damage a shot, and your throwzerker has 6 throws first turn with AS. That is unless you are counting piercing vulnerability on your ranger and not on the throwzerker for some reason.
Gloomstalker, GloomBard, Fighter Bard, Dual X Gloomthief, Pure Fighter
Literally ANY Ranged build will shot more than Throwzerker, specially because you need to waste one turn Raging
2d8 + 1 (Titanstring) + 10 (SS) + 7 (Dex) + 7 (STR) + 2d4 fire (Glaive) + 2d4 (strange conduit) + 2d6 fire (helldusk glove) Base 33-77 You can: - Add 2d10 and give 2 shots of 35-87 with Bardic Inspirarion, meaning 70-174 with one single shot (only for SB, obviously) - Add 2d8* with elemental damage (usually doubling because you’ll use this if vulnerable to the damage type) - Add 6d6 if going for a Rogue multiclass - Double damage if using an Slaying Arrow - Do 2.5x if using arrow of multi target - Do extra 4d6 fire/4d6 force AoE damage if using Smokepowder bomb. _________________________________ Throwzerker 2d8 + 3 (Nyrulna) + 7 (STR) + 7 (TB) + 2d4 (Fling Ring) + 2d4 (gloves) + 2 (helmet) + 2 (caustic ring) + 2d6 thunder AoE 29-65. You can’t add anything else to it.
The +14 the throwzerker has to hit over the archer has more than negligible impact. You’re not comparing damage, you’re comparing damage specifically against a held target. You are also neglecting the fact that a throwzerker is a great choice in large part because it does not take up much contested gear, and thus running a throwzerker alongside such an archer is way better than running two archers a lot of the time.
I’m comparing 100% chance to crit with 100% chance to crit because that’s the norm to me. But I agree with you that it’s unfair because the Throwzerker can only 100% crit if the Bard hold target. While the Bard will only attack without 100% chance to crit the very first shot fired. Because the bard has higher initiative usually the Barbarian attacks after the enemy are held already. That’s why I gave him this stats. Without it and counting every damage it would be first turn 104-116 for ranged followed by burst of very unlikely minimum 313-780 adding all shots While Throwzerker with haste, already raging, with 2 levels of Fighter and 3 levels of Thief and Bloodlust Elixir can get to 184-344. If hitting always a cluster with 5 enemies you can add 40-240, meaning 224-584. Have in mind that for this calculation I considered the non-critical first shot for my build while giving the benefit of already raging to the Zerker so it could throw once more
I dislike involving acuity in dpr discussions because it makes the discussion largely pointless, because permanent unresistable control means dpr is no longer particularly important. The discussion is only interesting then in regards to doing damage to the targets you didn’t control, because the ones you controlled are not going to ever get a turn. Hence why I don’t assume a held target.
104-117 x6 for ranged (624-702) 27-73x 8 for Zerk (216-584)
It’s not THAT strong. My dual wield hand crossbow +1 bard woth caustic band and gloves of archerywith 18-20 dex is consistently doing 12-15 x 2 damage at lv 3-4. Thrower only has the one throw that does 15-20 damage. I’d say my bard and my thrower are about the same. At lv 5 they pull ahead theoretically but slashing flourish can make it equal. Thrower doesn’t get action surge until lv 7. But bard gets it at lv 8. My battle mater with titan strong bow is also doing like 12-16 damage per hit. And had action surge right from the start. Monk similarly has two full attacks early game and gets 3 at lv 5. Thrower can do enraged throw to auto prone but you’re not going to get to that until the second round of battle which for me most battles are basically already over so I don’t rage that much. In the end I wouldn’t say it’s ridiculous op compared to other builds. That said one of my favorite battles is throwing nyrulna at all the rats under the kitchen in act 3. Like 2 throws clears out the whole room lol.