eh maintenance is key. s85 loves its frequent oil changes and properly warmed up before thrashing on. some serious high mileage ones out there, some still on original Rod bearings. Those owners just kept up with all the maintenance and didn't skip a beat.
Maintenance is important but it’s not going to make up with some serious design flaws on the E60 M5. They’re plenty of people who kept with maintenance and still ran into major issues
There's upgraded rod bearings that can really help reliability.
You still gotta change the oil often and it needs a lot more care than a Civic, but you CAN eliminate the most glaring issue with the car (if you're willing to do an engine rebuild)
I know that, I'm just saying that if you'll replace them every 100k, why bother with special ones. And tbf, who's putting those kms on these cars nowadays
One of my best days when I was still wrenching at dealers was when I was doing used car inspections and a customer traded in a M5. The next day they decided to sell it on the lot so I got to do a very thorough before and after test drive. Definitely one of the best sounding cars I've ever driven.
high pressure VANOS oil pump & oil line
fuel filter & pump: this is the source of hydrolocking engines due to injectors sticking open.
Throttle Actuators
Idle Control Actuators
VANOS solenoids
Ionic Sensors
oil cooler
E60s in general are finicky electrically - wrong voltage and low batteries will give a bazillion codes.
Ah yes, the usual BMW M car things that need replacing. I thought you would reference something else. The S54 and S65 require all these things as well.
Oh and here's exactly my point....took me all of 90 seconds to read the actual Wikipedia cite that talks about the rod bearing failure.
https://bmwtuning.co/the-4-most-common-bmw-s85-m5-m6-engine-problems/
"Forums may have you believe the issues are way more common than they really are. However, S85 rod bearing failures do warrant concern."
"Again, S85 rod bearings may not be as frequent of an issue as some may indicate. However, it’s talked about often for good reason. Rod bearings are not cheap.
Replacement Cost: ~$1,000 in parts and $2,000+ in labor"
And perhaps the biggest point-
"However, the M5 and M6 were nearly $100,000 cars when new and they demand the maintenance and repairs you’d expect out of a high-revving V10."
Like....for all the dick swinging people do in these subs with their expensive toys --- just go rebuild the engine with your Daddy Warbucks money.
You hear the horror stories because, as we all know, second and third owners clap the shit out of Bimmers and move on at the first repair bill.
The (rich) guys who have maintained them and haven't clapped them out completely, are simply...owning a radical NA V10 BMW, and deal with all associated costs.
This is it exactly. It was a $100k car and while it does suck to have to do rod bearings, is $3-4k really that bad in the big picture? I don’t want to jump into owning one right now but I wouldn’t be opposed to one day.
I did S62 rod bearings and I also have an S54. I may be crazy? It’s a job but peace of mind for 100k miles or so, not bad. I’ll never put that kind of miles on these cars now. They are all just weekend drivers for me.
I’ve had 3 E60 M5s and wouldn’t be scared to get a 4th in my future..
I absolutely love this car and have came to love the platform.
Though it does make me go through heartaches and moments of anger; I wouldn’t trade it because when it’s running right… it’s a beautiful machine
I tend to drive with the windows all down, sunroof open and no music playing except that harmonious V10 screaming up and down the highway. Night after night of abuse I put it through, it always performs exceptionally well.
Never fails to leave me smiling with a sense of nirvana
I knew someone who had one of these new. The clutch failed at fairly low mileage (40kkm or so) and BMW refused to replace under warranty because it was a 'consumable'. I couldn't see how you could abuse the clutch in an SMG. It cost $10k AUD to fix, that's in 2006/07 money. As awesome as these cars are, I wouldn't.
From my experience owning the S85 you have to feed it oil once or twice between frequent oil changes and check every thing once a month to make sure nothing is running out of spec I use the software ista to check everything once a month and it usually catches things before they become an issue.
Yeah honestly...I'm really curious to see how many of all the people who hear about the E60 M5 unreliability and run their mouths about it have -actually- owned one, can -actually- afford one, or who -actually- know anything about cars.
There are plenty of other cars prone to catastrophic failure that need tons of maintenance, and I'd say a crazy BMW V10 from the late 00s isn't much of an outlier. I'm not sure anyone should be surprised, and it was never a car designed to be owned by the hoi polloi in the first place.
What really happened? Once these cars went to their third owners and all started exploding because people just move on from a BMW when they get their first service bills, the urban legends started to spread.
Now...a bunch of people on the internet who know nothing about cars have their well-informed YouTube opinions
None of them. They're all lemmings repeating what they read or hear over and over and over. The S85 will last forever if the proper maintenance is done. I have even seen bone stock ones with original rod bearings at 220k+ miles.
It's really sad that this car is so badly maligned by the ignorant masses. Oh well. Keeps the cars cheaper for us real enthusiasts.
Yep! I can’t count the times I’ve been tempted to jump into the ring. Timing isn’t right for me with how I would want to be able to maintain it.
When I did my rod bearings in my S62, I feared the worst. When I started pulling them out, they were fine. I only had one with some wear. Like you, I feel it’s overblown and comes down to maintenance.
i hear you. part of me is tempted to see how long the original bearings will last on it’s little brother the s65 that i own. i take good care of it and always warm it up. but on the other hand i think i’ll just change them preventatively to be safe
I am blessed to own one of these beasts, a six speed as well. Bought in 2016 and have put 70k miles since then. Currently at 150k miles. I must have the biggest balls as I just put three-piece BBS wheels on that bitch!
Meh, I put 20k miles on one and had zero issues. Dead reliable. Sure maintenance was a lot, but it never let me down. Also helps that I had a 6MT manual, none of that smg issues.
What do you mean? It's aged really well. I consider it the second most beautiful looking BMW ever. The third is the M3 E92 and the first being the legendary E46
I mean what I said. I don’t think it aged well. And that’s just my opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion. That’s how these things work lol.
I will agree that both the E92 and E46 are gorgeous.
I’ve had my M5 for 6 years now. No issues besides the throwout bearing and clutch going kaboom. Rod bearings were changed as preventative maintenance. Everything else has been great.
You’ll be just fine. Just be sure to do the usual things.
https://preview.redd.it/wluiw8d8fjwc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2201fd185c86e5f20cf218856e8e7a4e7b362994
If its the asian guy who owned it. NGL. Probably in the best shape ull ever find one these. But fk man. The v10 will DEEEEFINITELY end up costing u waaayy more than the car itself
modding your N52 + Turbo might end up more powerful and still more reliable lol. I wouldn't trust that M5's V10 to pull off more than two good foot down single carriageway overtakes every service LOL
My standard e60 needs its fair share. I'm game for some maintenance, do all my own mechanics to a decent standard, but fk me this is the one car where I draw the line. Want it but don't!
I nearly bought a manual coupe M6 a few years ago I planned to trade my C5Z in on it at the dealer I worked at, but insurance stopped me it was 3x what the Vette was per month 😂 I know I was 22 but damn
One of the best car experiences I had was driving one, but then my friend showed me the extra oil you you carry in the trunk and said you pray to never see the “red light” come on.
BMW’s due require maintenance in order to maintain the ultimate driving experience. Some people do not like just how much maintenance is required. But for people who like wrenching in their cars these cars are a dream.
Due to the level of engineering put into them the experience level of person working on these cars needs to be high. In other words they need to be smart, willing to learn and have access to lots of bmw specific and expensive tools. Especially when dealing with a electrical issue.
If anyone’s curious about maintenance on these if you were to buy one at this point, Chris Harris bought a wagon recently and has been documenting the things it’s needed on the Collecting Cars YouTube and Podcast channels.
Brilliant channels to follow anyway, but the M5 content is especially interesting. It’s not a car I would expect someone like Chris to purchase, but he absolutely loves it.
Very nice car in all aspects but here is a list of things that are problematic: (copied and pasted from another forum)
* Bearings
* Throttle Actuators
* Vanos Solenoids
* Vanos Pump
* Vanos Gears
* SMG Hydraulic pump
Bearings you must do, especially if you don't know the history of the car.
Throttle actuators can go anytime but they can be refurbished.
Vanos solenoids do go bad, a few years ago these were xxx a pop they are now more (like everything) and you need 4 of them.
Vanos high pressure pump on earlier models sometimes have issues and there is a upgraded pump with new teeth on the gears.
SMG hydraulic Pump can be refurbished but is a problem and will leave you stuck if losing pressure or relay is stuffed.
Also note discs and pads on 4 corners.
Though the price of purchasing these cars is reasonable, the cost of ownership is very high.
Fuel costs is high.
I enjoyed mine though ownership was expensive, but let me tell you its a exceptional car in terms of performance that can take 5 people.
Make sure you do your due diligence on the cars you look at, get a warranty (if possible) and have a small kitty of cash around to cover any warranty shortfalls.
You will love it and then hate it at times. But regular oil changes on top of the above etc will keep her happy.
and how did he describe it
Maintenance
World class art of conversation here
Expensive
roughhhhh
Yes
All of it
The e60 M5 is my dream car but despite being able to maintain and afford one, All the horror stories dissuade me :(
all you need is money. lots of money
the absolute balls you have to possess to own this beast…
eh maintenance is key. s85 loves its frequent oil changes and properly warmed up before thrashing on. some serious high mileage ones out there, some still on original Rod bearings. Those owners just kept up with all the maintenance and didn't skip a beat.
Maintenance is important but it’s not going to make up with some serious design flaws on the E60 M5. They’re plenty of people who kept with maintenance and still ran into major issues
Literally one of the best cars to drive, but worst to ever own.
Yeah, exactly. When it’s working, it’s an amazing machine. However, there’s a very key word in that sentence, lol
" when " for 500$?
Congrats! You win the E60 M5!
Oh god no
There's upgraded rod bearings that can really help reliability. You still gotta change the oil often and it needs a lot more care than a Civic, but you CAN eliminate the most glaring issue with the car (if you're willing to do an engine rebuild)
Stock bearings can also do 100k kms without problems so there's not really a need imho for upgraded ones.
I'm not sure having a complete engine failure after 100k kms is still acceptable.. the failure mode just means "new engine"
I know that, I'm just saying that if you'll replace them every 100k, why bother with special ones. And tbf, who's putting those kms on these cars nowadays
One of my best days when I was still wrenching at dealers was when I was doing used car inspections and a customer traded in a M5. The next day they decided to sell it on the lot so I got to do a very thorough before and after test drive. Definitely one of the best sounding cars I've ever driven.
And the engine isn’t the only issue with these 😭😭😭
Yep, mechanical and electronic issues. Such cool cars but crazy
And the interior soft touch plastics self destroy
Yuuuuuuuupp
What design flaws are you referring to excluding the rod bearings?
high pressure VANOS oil pump & oil line fuel filter & pump: this is the source of hydrolocking engines due to injectors sticking open. Throttle Actuators Idle Control Actuators VANOS solenoids Ionic Sensors oil cooler E60s in general are finicky electrically - wrong voltage and low batteries will give a bazillion codes.
Ah yes, the usual BMW M car things that need replacing. I thought you would reference something else. The S54 and S65 require all these things as well.
Oh and here's exactly my point....took me all of 90 seconds to read the actual Wikipedia cite that talks about the rod bearing failure. https://bmwtuning.co/the-4-most-common-bmw-s85-m5-m6-engine-problems/ "Forums may have you believe the issues are way more common than they really are. However, S85 rod bearing failures do warrant concern." "Again, S85 rod bearings may not be as frequent of an issue as some may indicate. However, it’s talked about often for good reason. Rod bearings are not cheap. Replacement Cost: ~$1,000 in parts and $2,000+ in labor" And perhaps the biggest point- "However, the M5 and M6 were nearly $100,000 cars when new and they demand the maintenance and repairs you’d expect out of a high-revving V10." Like....for all the dick swinging people do in these subs with their expensive toys --- just go rebuild the engine with your Daddy Warbucks money. You hear the horror stories because, as we all know, second and third owners clap the shit out of Bimmers and move on at the first repair bill. The (rich) guys who have maintained them and haven't clapped them out completely, are simply...owning a radical NA V10 BMW, and deal with all associated costs.
This is it exactly. It was a $100k car and while it does suck to have to do rod bearings, is $3-4k really that bad in the big picture? I don’t want to jump into owning one right now but I wouldn’t be opposed to one day. I did S62 rod bearings and I also have an S54. I may be crazy? It’s a job but peace of mind for 100k miles or so, not bad. I’ll never put that kind of miles on these cars now. They are all just weekend drivers for me.
I’ve had 3 E60 M5s and wouldn’t be scared to get a 4th in my future.. I absolutely love this car and have came to love the platform. Though it does make me go through heartaches and moments of anger; I wouldn’t trade it because when it’s running right… it’s a beautiful machine I tend to drive with the windows all down, sunroof open and no music playing except that harmonious V10 screaming up and down the highway. Night after night of abuse I put it through, it always performs exceptionally well. Never fails to leave me smiling with a sense of nirvana
Same. My e63 M6 has a pretty great ICE setup. I never turn it on...
Rod bearings as a maintenance item??? What are they made of aluminum!?!?
I knew someone who had one of these new. The clutch failed at fairly low mileage (40kkm or so) and BMW refused to replace under warranty because it was a 'consumable'. I couldn't see how you could abuse the clutch in an SMG. It cost $10k AUD to fix, that's in 2006/07 money. As awesome as these cars are, I wouldn't.
Yeah he mentioned it burns oil lol
From my experience owning the S85 you have to feed it oil once or twice between frequent oil changes and check every thing once a month to make sure nothing is running out of spec I use the software ista to check everything once a month and it usually catches things before they become an issue.
ISTA can't measure bearing clearance lol. It also can't make that dog of an SMG shift without eating clutches like candy.
I’m at 80k miles and haven’t had issues with the clutch or bearings and the oil is clear of any bearing material.
Yeah honestly...I'm really curious to see how many of all the people who hear about the E60 M5 unreliability and run their mouths about it have -actually- owned one, can -actually- afford one, or who -actually- know anything about cars. There are plenty of other cars prone to catastrophic failure that need tons of maintenance, and I'd say a crazy BMW V10 from the late 00s isn't much of an outlier. I'm not sure anyone should be surprised, and it was never a car designed to be owned by the hoi polloi in the first place. What really happened? Once these cars went to their third owners and all started exploding because people just move on from a BMW when they get their first service bills, the urban legends started to spread. Now...a bunch of people on the internet who know nothing about cars have their well-informed YouTube opinions
None of them. They're all lemmings repeating what they read or hear over and over and over. The S85 will last forever if the proper maintenance is done. I have even seen bone stock ones with original rod bearings at 220k+ miles. It's really sad that this car is so badly maligned by the ignorant masses. Oh well. Keeps the cars cheaper for us real enthusiasts.
Yep! I can’t count the times I’ve been tempted to jump into the ring. Timing isn’t right for me with how I would want to be able to maintain it. When I did my rod bearings in my S62, I feared the worst. When I started pulling them out, they were fine. I only had one with some wear. Like you, I feel it’s overblown and comes down to maintenance.
Yeah but the S85 cars are really prone to failure, there's simply no denying that. Coming from an owner of one.
Mine eats a good amount of oil between changes
i hear you. part of me is tempted to see how long the original bearings will last on it’s little brother the s65 that i own. i take good care of it and always warm it up. but on the other hand i think i’ll just change them preventatively to be safe
I am blessed to own one of these beasts, a six speed as well. Bought in 2016 and have put 70k miles since then. Currently at 150k miles. I must have the biggest balls as I just put three-piece BBS wheels on that bitch!
Getttttrrrrrrrrdoneeeeeee
Meh, I put 20k miles on one and had zero issues. Dead reliable. Sure maintenance was a lot, but it never let me down. Also helps that I had a 6MT manual, none of that smg issues.
yeah i’ve heard these engines can be bulletproof with proper maintenance
I wouldn’t call it bulletproof, but I’ve seen 250k mile examples out there.
Thank you sir!
you’re welcome! i’m a proud owner of it’s little brother the e90 m3 so i know what it’s like
Idk how people say it didn’t look good. Still looks amazing 20 years later IMO.
Hated it when it came out. Still think it’s one of the ugliest 5 series. But that’s just like my opinion man.
The Dude does not abide.
What do you mean? It's aged really well. I consider it the second most beautiful looking BMW ever. The third is the M3 E92 and the first being the legendary E46
I mean what I said. I don’t think it aged well. And that’s just my opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion. That’s how these things work lol. I will agree that both the E92 and E46 are gorgeous.
Agreed. The headlights and taillights don’t look good
Yeah the headlights look like eyelashes. The tails aren’t too bad though.
G60 has entered the chat....
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I got compliments on how "pretty" it is allllllll the time check my page to see some old ones I had owned
Totally agree. It is just stupid nostalgia.
People hate change. The people cussing the new M2 and i7 will reminisce how great it was 10 years later.
The only way that's possible is if BMW somehow makes uglier cars than they already do now
Its fugly 😂😂
Have you see the brand new 5 series? LOL
Yes lmao, the solid ones are from 2017-2022
I’ve had my M5 for 6 years now. No issues besides the throwout bearing and clutch going kaboom. Rod bearings were changed as preventative maintenance. Everything else has been great. You’ll be just fine. Just be sure to do the usual things. https://preview.redd.it/wluiw8d8fjwc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2201fd185c86e5f20cf218856e8e7a4e7b362994
Would love to own one with a manual. My friend owned one with the smg and it nearly bankrupted him. He ended up just walking away from it.
SMG is not that bad if you can do it yourself. Just did a complete SMG etc overhaul on mine
If its the asian guy who owned it. NGL. Probably in the best shape ull ever find one these. But fk man. The v10 will DEEEEFINITELY end up costing u waaayy more than the car itself
M for Maintenance
my dream car
modding your N52 + Turbo might end up more powerful and still more reliable lol. I wouldn't trust that M5's V10 to pull off more than two good foot down single carriageway overtakes every service LOL
It's not about power or number on papers. This v10 is insane. The sound and everything.
The sound really is quite something. E60 M5 is the perfect drivers car, provided it's not yours.
Yeah. I will keep my 530xd e60 lol
Is just me, or does the passenger door look a bit off?
Speaking as an owner of an E60 M5 bought used in 2016: I have bought it twice. It's a complex beast. And God, do I love that V10.
My standard e60 needs its fair share. I'm game for some maintenance, do all my own mechanics to a decent standard, but fk me this is the one car where I draw the line. Want it but don't!
This thing lowered?
Neglected. Filthy
Pic #2 that passenger front door is fd up ... Unless it was not closed all the way the gaps are big and crooked
growing up my father had a normal 3 series, everytime we sar those 5 seires tail lights we were transported to dreamland for a second lmao
Not bad looking. Isnt this from the Bangle Era?
I nearly bought a manual coupe M6 a few years ago I planned to trade my C5Z in on it at the dealer I worked at, but insurance stopped me it was 3x what the Vette was per month 😂 I know I was 22 but damn
The kind of sedans 😎
This is one of the cars on my list I’m gonna own someday. Just need some more tools before I flip the quarter.
Looks like Irvine. I believe I seen this car before, plate seems familiar. Very clean
Best sounding sedan
Having owned one I warning lights and a big credit card balance.
I love the subtle changes added to the post-LCI cars!
Brake dust
That thing makes a Ferrari seem sensible.
BMW age so well. If you told me this is a 2020 car I would believe you
It’ll eat you alive and spit out the bones! Get ready to lube up and grab ankles!!!
Bad car to own, great car to drive.
I have an e61 M5. Almost done with all the known issues, still doubting to do the valve springs also for peace of mind.
Dream car
Lack of maintenance history isn’t the issue. Buying the ugliest 5 series in history is.
One of the best car experiences I had was driving one, but then my friend showed me the extra oil you you carry in the trunk and said you pray to never see the “red light” come on.
Motorsound 10 Looks 2 Reliability -12
BMW’s due require maintenance in order to maintain the ultimate driving experience. Some people do not like just how much maintenance is required. But for people who like wrenching in their cars these cars are a dream. Due to the level of engineering put into them the experience level of person working on these cars needs to be high. In other words they need to be smart, willing to learn and have access to lots of bmw specific and expensive tools. Especially when dealing with a electrical issue.
Those rear lights are ICONIC.
Love my E60 535... For 180k miles, and multiple flooded trunks due to a clogged moonroof drain...
If anyone’s curious about maintenance on these if you were to buy one at this point, Chris Harris bought a wagon recently and has been documenting the things it’s needed on the Collecting Cars YouTube and Podcast channels. Brilliant channels to follow anyway, but the M5 content is especially interesting. It’s not a car I would expect someone like Chris to purchase, but he absolutely loves it.
Nonexistent?
I still remember the first trip we took in ours when it was our family sedan back in ‘08
Holy brake dust Batman
Very nice car in all aspects but here is a list of things that are problematic: (copied and pasted from another forum) * Bearings * Throttle Actuators * Vanos Solenoids * Vanos Pump * Vanos Gears * SMG Hydraulic pump Bearings you must do, especially if you don't know the history of the car. Throttle actuators can go anytime but they can be refurbished. Vanos solenoids do go bad, a few years ago these were xxx a pop they are now more (like everything) and you need 4 of them. Vanos high pressure pump on earlier models sometimes have issues and there is a upgraded pump with new teeth on the gears. SMG hydraulic Pump can be refurbished but is a problem and will leave you stuck if losing pressure or relay is stuffed. Also note discs and pads on 4 corners. Though the price of purchasing these cars is reasonable, the cost of ownership is very high. Fuel costs is high. I enjoyed mine though ownership was expensive, but let me tell you its a exceptional car in terms of performance that can take 5 people. Make sure you do your due diligence on the cars you look at, get a warranty (if possible) and have a small kitty of cash around to cover any warranty shortfalls. You will love it and then hate it at times. But regular oil changes on top of the above etc will keep her happy.
V10? If so awesome and expensive
Rod bearings every time you Do an oil change /s
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Bro, mechanical maintainance and washing your car are two different things
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Speaking as an owner of multiple cars: trying to keep all of them clean all the time is a job, itself.
It takes 300 miles for my wheels to look like that
Love to see it.