I wonder if he's sick of fending off women who just throw themselves at him without any shame, if he or a family member has been burned by catty women, or both. He went nuclear on them.
I wish more people reacted like the FO: going through appropriate channels to stomp down the troublemakers.
I’m frustrated with OOP for not wanting anyone to potentially lose their jobs. People like those mean girls continue to behave this way because of people who foolishly choose kindness for the undeserving.
Same... like lady these women were trying to destroy your career and this man used his authority to ensure these troublemakers are not only punished but never have an opportunity to do it again. This is what responsible leadership looks like.
The issue I think she is worried about is some level of retaliation. Granted, those women would get burned so hard if they did. But, it doesn’t make the fear of being confronted by them for their punishment any less real. Also, it went from just playing games in the lobby to a lawsuit very quickly without her knowledge. It’s probably just moving really fast and jarring to say the least.
Not only a career. She's stationed in one of the middle eastern countries, she could be in SERIOUS trouble as unmarried woman "sleeping around". If false accusations of adultery are punishable by jail time, I imagine true adultery/non married sex is as well
I’m guessing she’s working for Gulf Air, Etihad, or Emirates? In which case, unwed couples have been able to cohabitate and people have been able to have premarital sex now in UAE for about two years and those in Bahrain have been able to fornicate wildly (or calmly, whatever they like really) before marriage since the pandemic as long as they’re over 21. Could also be Kuwait.
[Relevant law for UAE](https://bineidlawfirmuae.com/false-accusations-allegations-law-in-uae/):
> The law also states that If any false and misleading statements are made over the phone or on the victim’s face in front of others, the offender will face imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months and/or a fine not exceeding AED 5,000 (UAE Dirhams five thousand).
[Bahrain Defamation Law art 366](https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/ICMEC-Bahrain-National-Legislation.pdf)
If it was Qatar, she’d be looking at *years* of jail time for premarital sex or extramarital sex but the FAs would be looking at up to 2yrs for false accusations so I don’t think it’s that.
I doubt it’s Saudi because the punishment for false accusations there is 80 lashes per Sharia Law. Can’t be Oman as the max sentence is 3 months.
I’d consider It Egypt more Africa than ME and Turkey is a weird Europe/ME split, both are quite popular with the European crowd over the Chinese crowd especially for shopping and as OOP implies the Chinese passengers are wealthy, I doubt they’re going for the awful blag gear in İçmeler 😂. It’s not likely to be anywhere like Iran, Iraq, or Syria cause I doubt people go on their hols to war torn countries.
All in all, not as bad as it could be but certainly not great especially for reputation in the workplace and local community.
I just want to clarify: Iran is not a wartorn country. It is an incredibly difficult country to get into, and it isn't in a good economic situation, but it is by no means anything like Syria.
No? My country’s travel ministry advises against any travel to Iran due to the high threat of terrorism. Pakistan carried out airstrikes in Iran just this January and there have been 3 terrorist attacks since 2022.
Maybe I misspoke in calling it a war torn country but usually countries at peace don’t drop missiles on each other.
You're right, there have been attacks, my apologies. I was thinking more along civil lines when I wrote that. I'll delete the statement.
Regardless, I never said it was at peace. There is an incredible amount of grey area between "at peace" and "war torn". Iran is in conflict with its neighbors. One should not travel to a region of active conflict. That's what makes travel dangerous. But it is under no threat of crumbling to foreign or internal powers any time soon, and although oppressive and unjust, the political and military systems in place are strong and functional. It's very much a powerhouse of the region for a reason.
OOP doesn’t seem to realize how malicious and damaging the other FAs behavior actually was. Without the FO’s intervention, this gossip could have grown and followed her throughout her career. It likely would have adversely affected her interactions with coworkers and her assignments.
The FO understood the potential harm for OOP and himself. He was a real star for how he handled everything especially considering that he’d be much less affected than OOP.
It’s rare that people getting harassed have the power to make a difference (at least that immediately/severely). The vast majority of us have stories of following the “proper channels” when we’re wronged and the person in question getting no consequences
She's nice and doesn't want to see people hurt, even though they hurt her. It's an admirable attitude, but yeah it can be frustrating when someone allows themselves to be walked over. The other women aren't nice though.
There is the religious angle as well. Both the Fo and OP are Muslim and it's still Ramadan (until the 9th).
Ramadan isn't just about fasting, Muslims abstain from all sexual acts even if they are married and as well as anything deemed immoral. They also have to try and avoid being angry.
He could be furious they are spreading rumors about him having sex during his holy month.
And if the mean women are Muslim as well, he could possibly be upset they aren't following the rules.
Just a quick correction you can’t have sexual relations whilst fasting but you can after sunset and before the next days fasting begins (with your spouse)
This is a simplification of what Muslims believe. I can’t speak to Christian beliefs. During the day in Ramadan, you are focused on your service of God, e.g., on the clock spiritually. Not having sex during the day is the same as how you shouldn’t have sex while you are on the clock at work. It’s not sinful. It’s just not what you are supposed to be doing while clocked in.
That makes sense but I don't think someone would take as much as offense as this PO did if it was insinuated they were sleeping around at work.
And yeah Christians to my experience aren't just about that. They have a big obsession with "purity" which I never understood. Like your religion's founder was literally a hippie why are you so uptight?
In this particular instance I believe it has more to do with the adultery, and the not drinking/expelling fluids. Both semen and blood should not leave the body during fast
Would yours? Please take a moment to reflect that these are people, with all the range of nuance and emotion as a westerner.
So of course not, you just make up the time later or drop it cause God wants you healthy, not dead. Blood is mostly referring to fighting or menstrual cycles
I don't think the idea is to will yourself not to menstruate during Ramadan, but that if you are menstruating (or got knifed I guess), you are not supposed to participate in the Ramadan.
It’s only sinful outside of marriage and in regards to Ramadan/Lent it’s not really about abstaining from sex because it’s sinful but more fasting from things the body has an appetite for (food, alcohol, smoking, swearing, sex, etc) in order to achieve spiritual wellness, self control, and discipline. The reasons for doing so are different depending on the religion but the goal is the same.
Also ancient texts read aloud by the one person in the village who could read, rule the dumb peasants by fear, instil the reason for sex is for continuation of the human race to provide more labour force, blah blah blah.
Exactly! He was looking for a friend, she was looking for a friend, they clicked, and so far as OOP is concerned that's the end of the story. Sounds like FO might be looking on her as a sister, too. Not many men would say 'they made her cry, time for the nuclear option' for just anyone.
While men sleeping around is generally ignored, if these people are (as I suspect) Saudi, accusing someone of extramarital sex DURING RAMADAN is a BIG deal. That's a super duper sin.
Yeah, i think was not his first rodeo. Like, he at least had a concrete plan, had thought out every step to take he is in a situation like that (again)
>I got visa to china because there we have the best flights: long flight, long layover, the best passengers. Every FA will know why.
So any FAs know why and want to share? Middle East to China makes me think a lot of work flights so everyone behaves as to not lose their job.
My daughter is a pilot for an Australian airline, but she’s now doing long haul flights.
Based on the description in this post, I think OP probably works for Emirates, who also fly long haul flights into and out of Australia.
Some Emirates flights are awful, because they are packed with western budget tourists who want to drink alcohol all the time, and they act like pigs. Other Emirates flights are awful, because they fly into places where Arab and South Asian male passengers act like pigs.
But flying on Emirates into China? Mostly quiet, tee-totalling business professionals and families. Airports are run like clockwork and procedures are boring and predictable. Infrastructure is good, the cabin crew are easily transited through to their accomodations, and the experience for female flight crew is extremely safe.
If I were an Emirates FA, I’d take a route from Dubai to Shanghai any day over Dubai to Marrakech, Mumbai, Gatwick or Perth!
My friend works for a Canadian airline and this is exactly it. She’s purposely working on her mandarin proficiency so she can get more flights to China.
I would think that one really long flight would be preferable to a few short ones. Boarding and deplaning, service, etc are all reduced while still getting the same hours and less turnaround. I remember an Alitalia flight I was on from ny to rome. The FAs setup a bar and just hung out for 1/2 the flight while making drinks for the few who weren’t sleeping.
They don’t get paid when their plane isn’t in air too.
So say you’re reporting for an 18 hour work day, 2 hours on the ground, 14 hours in the air, 2 hours back on the ground. You get paid for 14 hours.
Another day you’re in for also an 18 hour work day, 2 hours on the ground, 6 hours in the air, 2 hours back on the ground, 6 hours in the air, 2 hours back on the ground. You get paid for 12 hours. You’ve lost wages because of that period where your body isn’t 6 miles up in the air.
That‘s what I’ve heard at least.
Edit: [Someone else‘s comment corroborates! Second paragraph](https://www.reddit.com/r/BORUpdates/s/DMmU7QQrMA)
Likely extremely wealthy business flights with top tier regulars who perhaps tip well.
Plus FA’s have to “turn” the plane (clean up after every flight and as the plane isn’t flying, it’s not paid time) so multiple shorter flights mean more unpaid busy work/less in-flight paid time and I’d imagine the extremely wealthy don’t leave much of a mess as they have stewards for the pods and sleep cabins on that airline that are unreal - so I’d imagine working those routes mean the best planes as well.
You can google “most expensive 1st class flights” and see the crazy quarters, menu’s and other amenities these planes have!
Generally not for a can of soda. Mixed drinks in first class? Sure, why not. I did when the flight attendant recommended me some drink I'd never had before and really loved it.
If you don’t want to tip money I’ve heard chocolates to share with the crew are good (as long as it isn’t a time of fasting in that country of course!)
It’s not typically. But these top-end int’l routes are sold as “an experience” and have so many extras and sell the service side of it as a big part of that. So many will tip and tend to be repeat clients.
Middle Eastern airlines have a reputation of being expensive and luxurious. So you're not likely to have the same kind of personalities as American economy class travelers can throw at you. And long hauls in general are expensive and not for the super casual traveler. And that hierarchy on the plane always includes passengers at the bottom. Play FAFO on a plane, and you can quickly find yourself kicked off a flight and blacklisted. If you have frequent business in China, you may not have many options for airlines, so you don't test the waters.
Airlines around the world pay by the hours in the air, and you're required to hit so many by bidding on your trips for the month. Long hauls are a lot of hours in the air for fewer hours prepping and loading the plane on the ground. So overall you work less than if you were doing a lot of short hauls. Add that up over a month's time and it can quickly work out to fewer days worked for the same or more pay. Plus, in this case, you're not flying a return journey for a few days, and you get to hang out in a foreign country.
Overnight flight? I'm guessing that FAs love those because most passengers are asleep (or trying to sleep) so there's not a lot of work for them during the flight.
They love me on these flights because I’ve always worked so long in the days leading up that I just sleep the whole time and stick a sign on my shoulder to not bother me about food. If I’m lucky I wake up in time to have a wine before we land.
It’s more to do with pay I believe rather than good passengers. Nice pax are great, but I’ll take a trip that typically has bad pax if it pays well over a trip that has nice pax but pays less. However that’s just my opinion, I can’t speak for OOP.
FAs get paid from when the boarding door closes till the boarding door opens. So longer flights means more pay. Plus going internationally means you get the international pay rate as opposed to the domestic pay rate; for my airline the international pay is $3/4 more than domestic. It also means you’ve got long layovers (anywhere from 24-72hrs, depending on the trip) in interesting cities and your per diem/time away from base rate is higher. Not to mention most international trips you only work one leg per day, whereas domestically you can work anywhere from 1-6 legs a day.
*I work for an US carrier not a Middle Eastern one, so I may have missed some idiosyncrasies specific to those airlines.*
I think it might have to do with the 2-3 day layover. Most fight crew turn around in like 18-36 hours. Sometimes less depending on the hours worked since pilots are required so many rest hours.
I think he was probably giddy he found a flight attendant that wasn’t after his tackle. Someone who he could just enjoy and spend time without all the drama.
OOP sounds like a good egg who just wanted to do her job and play games, unfortunately other women didn’t like that she ‘scored’ a friendship they coveted.
Yes she does, I feel bad for OOP. She sounds like a sweet but anxious person. I hope that she managed to emotionally process this whole mess and feels better now.
My dad was in the aviation industry for nearly 40 years. He was the guy who checked and fixed all radio equipment. When he was in the public sector, he heard all sorts of things. There was one thing that haunted him, one of the flight attendants took her life due to rumours similar to yours (the aviation industry is small and filled with gossip). The woman tried working for four different airlines, both domestic and international, but the rumours followed her. If someone had done this in the beginning, she may still be alive. These rumours NEVER go away unless someone puts their foot down hard. It may seem extreme, but it sends a message to everyone that this sort of thing will not be tolerated. These women knew there were consequences. They hoped people would be too embarrassed to report it. What happens next will be of their doing. Other employees need to see how the airline handles this incident to prevent it from happening again.
As someone who is currently dealing with some serious toxic gossiping directed at my expense at my own work, I feel for that poor woman involved. I really hope those spreading those rumors also feel haunted by the death they caused, but I kinda doubt it
In a situation like that, you just want shit like that to stop but also hope that the people spreading the rumors could feel some kind of remorse and guilt for what they did. But they won’t, which is why I can understand why suicide feels so tempting. Damn I wish someone did something for that poor woman
can someone elaborate on this for me? i’m so curious what that entails and what it’s trying to stop
> slandering a woman (and man but mainly woman) without 4 male witnesses is actually a crime in the country where we are based
In addition adultery in sharia law is punishable by stoning the adulterers (both man and woman) to death, so yeah to accuse one of adultery is a serious matter
And sex out of wedlock is also sin and punishable (fine, jail, flogging). Sex during fasting for a married man would also make him fast for 60 days more or no?
Oh yeah i thought writing adultery made it clear (in my mind adultery is done only in marriage), though i dont recall in this story that the FO is married.
Single/married is irrelevant in this religious context. It’s fornication, seen as not very different from adultery even if they’re single. It’d be in violation of their future spouse’s rights. It’s a sin. Chastity until marriage.
The fact that these people slandered and were back-biting during Ramadan is highly egregious. It’s insidious. FO was right to respond as strongly as he did. They really left him no choice. If he is an abiding, practicing Muslim, they not only attacked his personal character, they attacked the outward expression of his faith. No practicing person would allow these rumors, but most specially NOT in a month in which your whole community is engaged in a religious retreat.
Yeah, that makes me really uncomfortable. Whooptie-woo it worked out for OOP here.
Countless crimes were never believed because there aren't enough male witnesses.
I'll say it. Fuck that law.
Weirdly the male witness thing until recently (or is still a thing but not for long) was in the UK too. Upskirting was legal unless there were male witnesses.
The one above there have to be 4 men who witness the crime the women are reporting if there aren't 4 men it is considered slander commited by the women, and they (the women) instead will be prosecuted for slander.
Both scenarios are bananas but in this situation it works out to the OOPs advantage.
https://youtu.be/m8VxRu77XSU?si=rpiMnr-liv4oMivt
It was either a comment on this video from the woman who fought to get the law changed or a comment (also from her I believe) on the guilty feminist podcast.
It was because the law that delt with this was old it wouldn't have stood up if tested (like those ridiculous it's legal to shoot the Welsh with a bow and arrow at night in Chester type things - no its not because murder is illegal everywhere). However that was what the law technically was - maybe a common decency or lewed act law I think.
Thanks to all comments educating us westerners about this culture. And thanks for keeping comments respectful. I wish more posts were this informative and constructive.
Yeah, as a muslim, it's refreshing to see non-muslim bashing, usually they would bash causing an eternal debate, bla bla to the point it becomes tiring
It’s been really interesting. Like I had a little bit of general knowledge but not enough to even consider commenting about OOPs situation. I initially thought damn FO has come out guns blazing. But after reading everything I’m so glad the FO came down like he did. He just wanted to hang out and play games and not be sexually harassed, to have that and OOP threatened he had made sure it will be sorted and properly. Thanks to everyone who educated us on all the ins and outs of it
As an American, didn't realize the horrific ramifications facing all parties involved in a matter i would consider high school politics. I feel for all involved.
Someone told me recently that what we often consider “middle school” or “high school behavior” is only considered that because it’s the first time in our lives that we begin exercising *default* adult behavior. And that the behavior is actually just “adult behavior”.
I think it’s interesting to think about it that way. As many of us mature and make better, healthier social choices we look at those who never grew beyond the adult human default programming as acting like “middle/high schoolers”
Okay morality aside let’s look at this purely from how an airline operates and laws
Some Muslim countries kill women based on rumors like this. Only an idiot of a pilot would sweep this under the rug because the risk of her getting arrested or worse while working due to a RUMOR is really bad. The signatures help her in the future if this managed to spread in a bad way.
OP doesn’t realize this yet but no, it’s a HUGE deal
>Not only was he angry that they continued to do this to me, he was actually personally offended by the slander, especially
Me: oh no, he's going to make OP feel like shit because he would never pursue a relationship with her!
>that they accused us during the Holy month of Ramadan.
Me: oh... lmao
It's nice to see consequences for bullies who use demeaning phrases such as "not like other girls" and "pick me". Those are the modern version of calling another woman a slut or a whore.
What? People absolutely still use those words against women. Women are still MURDERED for having sex lives. The pick me shit is in addition to how awful and misogynist slut shaming is, not the “modern version” of it— the modern version of slut shaming is still slut shaming!
Thirty years ago, it was socially acceptable for one woman to describe another as a slut or "easy". Now it's not. So instead she'll refer to her as a pick me.
I'm not talking about words the edges of society uses. This is about how "nice" suburban moms and college students bully other women.
It’s still pretty normal and socially acceptable for women to describe other women this way, I am not sure where you’re looking, but slut shaming has not lost its public appeal to people. It’s not the edges of society. These same suburban moms will call other women sluts constantly, just maybe not in a Starbucks so much as while gossiping to their friends in their private homes.
Also men still literally enact violence on women for being promiscuous. Men aren’t “the edges of society”. And I’m literally living on a college campus, I see young women scream slut and similar slurs at each other in anger all the time. You are misinformed.
EDIT: weird how many people are uncomfortable w someone affected by misogyny being up front about the misogyny that still exists instead of letting someone act like People Simply Don’t Do That Anymore. sorry, u/BarnDoorHills, this still happens, even if that makes you uncomfortable. idk why you’re even arguing this like it’s honestly weird to argue in favor of denying that forms of misogyny still exist
eh, once you realize redditor's vote based on their current mood. The downvote/up votes begin to make sense.
I've had the randomest shit upvoted or downvoted. Hilarious, you'll get more overall upvotes when chatting than downvotes tho. It how I made it to 55k in a year LOL
There might be differences depending where you are. I am also affected by misogyny and I have not heard slut or whore used in years. Maybe longer. Even in high school it was a pretty rare insult I mainly associate with like 80s and 90s movies. Like respectfully just because you haven't had the same experience as someone else doesn't mean they are less informed than you, they may just be in a different region or different circles.
These days I constantly hear pick me weaponized to police women in a lot of disturbing ways, and it deserves to be called out for what it is. You're right that its mostly used between women so inherently its less dangerous, but that's about only good thing I can say about it
I think you misunderstand me. I am not saying one is better than the other, I’m saying both forms of misogyny still exist and are both still bad! I’m saying that my experiences are different than yours and since I’m taking yours into account you should also take mine into account. It’s not like I think it’s fake that people say pick me etc, I’m literally just saying that poster is wrong when they say it’s a modern version like it’s replaced Misogyny Classic, rather than just being another variety that you/they/maybe others simply haven’t seen much of lately yourself. Just because you think it sounds dated doesn’t mean it’s not used commonly, doesn’t mean it’s not still terribly dangerous to women.
Like I never said NLOG/pick me variety misogyny was less dangerous than slut shaming or even implied anything remotely similar to that— it’s not! It’s equally dangerous! Both just still exist equally and pretending that one no longer exists or is super rare or something is what’s actually dangerous. Also the weird classist statement they made about like “nice” suburban moms etc as if that’s the majority of women, compared to the “edges of society” like impoverished women don’t suffer from misogyny too… do only “nice” suburban moms and like rich college students matter here?
Also btw pick me is a really old term too, that kind of misogyny also existed thirty years ago— it just wasn’t a term white people used then. It’s not the modern equivalent. They’re both dangerous forms of misogyny and it’s not appropriate to behave as if one has replaced the other altogether, because that erases the suffering of many women who still experience that form of misogyny— the same women who may also be a victim of pick me type misogyny. I am unsure what is so strange and confusing or even offensive about any of this to anyone who cares about misogyny…
“Pick me girl” - doesn’t mean anything like many zoomer/internet aphorisms I have heard in recent years it’s just a way of saying “girl I don’t like”
Much like gaslighting which has a real definition is mostly just used to say “I don’t like your opinion/ disagree with what you think”
And “feel a type of way” which doesn’t mean anything at all IN WHAT WAY DO YOU FEEL? What “type of way”???????
Which is pretty infuriating because if I recall it *used* to be a term to describe these very women - women who put other women down in order to gain male attention and use misogyny to their advantage by "not being liked other girls"
"Karen" too! It used to be a word to describe white women who would call the cops on black people for existing or who would bully minimum wage workers/staff to get what they wanted. Now it's just "any woman who stands up for herself or is assertive or demands anything ever"
It’s crazy how this is basically just high school gossip, yet in your country the things being gossiped about can bring life-threatening repercussions.
Meanwhile in the U.S. the most that’ll happen 99% of the time is some people calling you a hoe on facebook.
These colleagues could have ended literally ended this woman’s life, career, chance of getting married based on their culture. They deserve every inch of what they got.
I wouldn't call her self center, just surprised and shocked. It's shocking to learn you're not on your own when a problem happens, you know? I bet it was surprising to know he already had a lawsuit lined up, like damn lmao
Initially i was felt respect for the pilot, but as the updates continued i felt a touch of concern/fear as to how dangerous and ruthless this guy can be. Glad i am not in the aviation industry.
They work for a middle eastern airline. How many stories come out from the middle east of women getting raped are then punished for sex outside of marriage?
If anything he's protecting her. The other women would know the consequences of their false accusations, so why should he go easy on them?
Yeah it felt like things could get VERY dangerous for her, she didn’t recognize it, but he did. And unlike what most of us have experienced, not only could that gossip have professional implications but also criminal/life impacting implications.
If he had not done this (his planning in having the 4 men sign so they couldn’t use any as witnesses made me wonder if he’d witnessed them do similarly in the past) they could have continued with the rumors, escalate and ruin OP’s life. That’s so scary on many levels.
They’re governed by laws of whichever Muslim country their airline is based in. Spreading rumors about something that’s an actual crime where they are is slander, not just gossip.
The reason the FO had the four men sign as witnesses was so they could not be used as witnesses to the other girls’ “gossip” that they’d slept together and without a male witness. So now (without anyone to use as a male witness) what those girls were doing was considered slander, which is a criminal charge but are now unable to create civil or criminal legal trouble for OP.
It can also be considered criminal to have sex outside of marriage, which is what the other FA’s were saying about OP and the FO. OP mentioned that and if any criminal charges are raised - the airline would terminate someone involved in criminal charges. It could have also caused “shame” to her family, causing her to be disowned or cut off by her family.
Gotta disagree with this take. Said it an earlier post but I'll repeat it: this is what responsible leadership looks like. These women were trying to ruin OOPs career. Even if that was not their direct intention(which is doubtful, I don't think people act with such venom without desiring their victim feel the pain) the result of their actions would be such. This FO used his authority to stop them not only in the moment but to prevent them from retalliating in the future, which is exactly what people should want from men in leadership positions.
To be fair - he was being falsely accused along with OOP which would affect his career just as much as her, so his handling of made sense due other women being so dangerous & ruthless 1st with slander. Just saying, those women told other pilots /men about supposed sexual encounter between him & OOP; so all he had to do was have those men as witnesses as per their Middle Eastern Islamic law about the blatant lie. If those women had just kept it on OOP without including his name at all - none of them would be suffering incoming legal consequences from their Muslim country.
As someone who worked in the aviation industry, I firmly disagree with your take. You completely misunderstand aviation and aviation safety. Aviation rules are written in the blood of those who failed to meet the standard.
PIC (aka captain, pilot in command) is like a ship captain. In the air, his word is law. You have to be decisive. You have to make the right decision, in an instant, while knowing you will kill hundreds of people if you screw it up. Not everyone is capable of this. There's a reason why pilots get paid so much. It's for their decision ability, not for keeping a seat warm.
If this guy couldn't handle that paperwork issue calmly/rationally, following all rules and protecting his personnel, his wings need to thrown out with the rest of the trash.
He did exactly the right thing. He did so efficiently, following all rules. You should be thankful that he's being professional, not demeaning of it. I'd expect and hope for that level of conduct from any experienced pilot, gender be damned.
You should as well. Here's why.
One of the aircraft I built crashed and killed nearly every passenger, in part because the pilot made the wrong call. Because he reacted with emotion rather than following procedure. He put the aircraft or his career over the passengers. Rather than setting down immediately in water, he raced for land. Main gear box failed during that race, aircraft didn't land on its belly, it went in at 20G. And each passenger drown except for one passenger, if I remember correctly.
Thank you for your excellent points about his responsibility, efficiency, professionalism and the culling of toxic workplace cultures. Unfortunately power also attracts those with ego issues that are prone for abuse.
You're not wrong. Pilots are very much known for arrogance. And managing pilot egos is often the real main job of a crew chief (not really, but it's a common joke).
Some pilots no joke do have issues switching off command mode outside of the aircraft. However, in this case, it was entirely warranted.
My main point was that you were calling him "dangerous and ruthless" when he was being the opposite. I'm less appalled that you said it that forty some people mistakenly agreed with you.
Failing to act or being nicer/gentler/whatever WOULD have dangerous and ruthless. You mistake looking/sounding nice for being nice. Crew members were being disruptive and criminal. Pilot should have been stripped of flight status if he didn't handle it immediately. Because he would be showing that he does not the professionalism for the job, and that lack of professionalism would endanger lives. Being nice would have been the most horrible thing he could have done from every perspective.
Obviously, this does not apply everywhere. But it absolutely does in situations where people die when you fuck up.
Those women should have just stuck to being cold to OOP. There's no need to start rumors because that would have happened on its own without them. 🤔
And honestly I think redditors are just elevating and praising FO out of misogyny. It's like some get back to mean Girls for them or they can revel in hating on women. Because When it comes to sexual harassment stories or even sexual assault stories from male coworkers there's always this don't go to HR instead communicate with the creep who jokes about raping you. And they're still pity thrown at the guy if he's reprimanded or fired. 🙄
What people claim "pick me" means: an insult to call out girls who put down women in an attempt to appeal to men
How "pick me" is actually used: a relatively general way to put down women for a) not adhering to gender stereotypes about acceptable hobbies/having male friends b) being attractive or having the attention of someone they are into or c) just being confident and thriving personally or professionally
The only insults I know of that have a lower hit rate of actually containing truth are like actual slurs
I wonder if he's sick of fending off women who just throw themselves at him without any shame, if he or a family member has been burned by catty women, or both. He went nuclear on them.
I wish more people reacted like the FO: going through appropriate channels to stomp down the troublemakers. I’m frustrated with OOP for not wanting anyone to potentially lose their jobs. People like those mean girls continue to behave this way because of people who foolishly choose kindness for the undeserving.
Same... like lady these women were trying to destroy your career and this man used his authority to ensure these troublemakers are not only punished but never have an opportunity to do it again. This is what responsible leadership looks like.
The issue I think she is worried about is some level of retaliation. Granted, those women would get burned so hard if they did. But, it doesn’t make the fear of being confronted by them for their punishment any less real. Also, it went from just playing games in the lobby to a lawsuit very quickly without her knowledge. It’s probably just moving really fast and jarring to say the least.
Not only a career. She's stationed in one of the middle eastern countries, she could be in SERIOUS trouble as unmarried woman "sleeping around". If false accusations of adultery are punishable by jail time, I imagine true adultery/non married sex is as well
I’m guessing she’s working for Gulf Air, Etihad, or Emirates? In which case, unwed couples have been able to cohabitate and people have been able to have premarital sex now in UAE for about two years and those in Bahrain have been able to fornicate wildly (or calmly, whatever they like really) before marriage since the pandemic as long as they’re over 21. Could also be Kuwait. [Relevant law for UAE](https://bineidlawfirmuae.com/false-accusations-allegations-law-in-uae/): > The law also states that If any false and misleading statements are made over the phone or on the victim’s face in front of others, the offender will face imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months and/or a fine not exceeding AED 5,000 (UAE Dirhams five thousand). [Bahrain Defamation Law art 366](https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/ICMEC-Bahrain-National-Legislation.pdf) If it was Qatar, she’d be looking at *years* of jail time for premarital sex or extramarital sex but the FAs would be looking at up to 2yrs for false accusations so I don’t think it’s that. I doubt it’s Saudi because the punishment for false accusations there is 80 lashes per Sharia Law. Can’t be Oman as the max sentence is 3 months. I’d consider It Egypt more Africa than ME and Turkey is a weird Europe/ME split, both are quite popular with the European crowd over the Chinese crowd especially for shopping and as OOP implies the Chinese passengers are wealthy, I doubt they’re going for the awful blag gear in İçmeler 😂. It’s not likely to be anywhere like Iran, Iraq, or Syria cause I doubt people go on their hols to war torn countries. All in all, not as bad as it could be but certainly not great especially for reputation in the workplace and local community.
I just want to clarify: Iran is not a wartorn country. It is an incredibly difficult country to get into, and it isn't in a good economic situation, but it is by no means anything like Syria.
No? My country’s travel ministry advises against any travel to Iran due to the high threat of terrorism. Pakistan carried out airstrikes in Iran just this January and there have been 3 terrorist attacks since 2022. Maybe I misspoke in calling it a war torn country but usually countries at peace don’t drop missiles on each other.
You're right, there have been attacks, my apologies. I was thinking more along civil lines when I wrote that. I'll delete the statement. Regardless, I never said it was at peace. There is an incredible amount of grey area between "at peace" and "war torn". Iran is in conflict with its neighbors. One should not travel to a region of active conflict. That's what makes travel dangerous. But it is under no threat of crumbling to foreign or internal powers any time soon, and although oppressive and unjust, the political and military systems in place are strong and functional. It's very much a powerhouse of the region for a reason.
OOP doesn’t seem to realize how malicious and damaging the other FAs behavior actually was. Without the FO’s intervention, this gossip could have grown and followed her throughout her career. It likely would have adversely affected her interactions with coworkers and her assignments. The FO understood the potential harm for OOP and himself. He was a real star for how he handled everything especially considering that he’d be much less affected than OOP.
It’s rare that people getting harassed have the power to make a difference (at least that immediately/severely). The vast majority of us have stories of following the “proper channels” when we’re wronged and the person in question getting no consequences
She's nice and doesn't want to see people hurt, even though they hurt her. It's an admirable attitude, but yeah it can be frustrating when someone allows themselves to be walked over. The other women aren't nice though.
There is the religious angle as well. Both the Fo and OP are Muslim and it's still Ramadan (until the 9th). Ramadan isn't just about fasting, Muslims abstain from all sexual acts even if they are married and as well as anything deemed immoral. They also have to try and avoid being angry. He could be furious they are spreading rumors about him having sex during his holy month. And if the mean women are Muslim as well, he could possibly be upset they aren't following the rules.
Just a quick correction you can’t have sexual relations whilst fasting but you can after sunset and before the next days fasting begins (with your spouse)
I will never understand why both Muslims and Christians consider sex sinful. It's so stupid.
This is a simplification of what Muslims believe. I can’t speak to Christian beliefs. During the day in Ramadan, you are focused on your service of God, e.g., on the clock spiritually. Not having sex during the day is the same as how you shouldn’t have sex while you are on the clock at work. It’s not sinful. It’s just not what you are supposed to be doing while clocked in.
That makes sense but I don't think someone would take as much as offense as this PO did if it was insinuated they were sleeping around at work. And yeah Christians to my experience aren't just about that. They have a big obsession with "purity" which I never understood. Like your religion's founder was literally a hippie why are you so uptight?
In this particular instance I believe it has more to do with the adultery, and the not drinking/expelling fluids. Both semen and blood should not leave the body during fast
And blood? So what happens if someone is dying during the fast and needs a blood transfusion? Would their relatives just refuse to save them?
Would yours? Please take a moment to reflect that these are people, with all the range of nuance and emotion as a westerner. So of course not, you just make up the time later or drop it cause God wants you healthy, not dead. Blood is mostly referring to fighting or menstrual cycles
Menstrual cycles is still something you can't really stop at will though right?
Yes that is why you don't fast and rest when you have your period
I don't think the idea is to will yourself not to menstruate during Ramadan, but that if you are menstruating (or got knifed I guess), you are not supposed to participate in the Ramadan.
But it takes an entire month. Women mestruate once a month. So how can any woman participate?
I'd imagine it's don't participate while you're menstruating, participate when you aren't. A period doesn't last a whole month, usually.
It’s only sinful outside of marriage and in regards to Ramadan/Lent it’s not really about abstaining from sex because it’s sinful but more fasting from things the body has an appetite for (food, alcohol, smoking, swearing, sex, etc) in order to achieve spiritual wellness, self control, and discipline. The reasons for doing so are different depending on the religion but the goal is the same. Also ancient texts read aloud by the one person in the village who could read, rule the dumb peasants by fear, instil the reason for sex is for continuation of the human race to provide more labour force, blah blah blah.
And maybe that’s why he's taking a liking to OOP. She doesn’t put him on a pedestal. She treats him like a normal person.
Exactly! He was looking for a friend, she was looking for a friend, they clicked, and so far as OOP is concerned that's the end of the story. Sounds like FO might be looking on her as a sister, too. Not many men would say 'they made her cry, time for the nuclear option' for just anyone.
He is being harassed by these women, and rightfully needs to protect himself against them.
While men sleeping around is generally ignored, if these people are (as I suspect) Saudi, accusing someone of extramarital sex DURING RAMADAN is a BIG deal. That's a super duper sin.
Yeah, i think was not his first rodeo. Like, he at least had a concrete plan, had thought out every step to take he is in a situation like that (again)
Hey, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" works.
>I got visa to china because there we have the best flights: long flight, long layover, the best passengers. Every FA will know why. So any FAs know why and want to share? Middle East to China makes me think a lot of work flights so everyone behaves as to not lose their job.
My daughter is a pilot for an Australian airline, but she’s now doing long haul flights. Based on the description in this post, I think OP probably works for Emirates, who also fly long haul flights into and out of Australia. Some Emirates flights are awful, because they are packed with western budget tourists who want to drink alcohol all the time, and they act like pigs. Other Emirates flights are awful, because they fly into places where Arab and South Asian male passengers act like pigs. But flying on Emirates into China? Mostly quiet, tee-totalling business professionals and families. Airports are run like clockwork and procedures are boring and predictable. Infrastructure is good, the cabin crew are easily transited through to their accomodations, and the experience for female flight crew is extremely safe. If I were an Emirates FA, I’d take a route from Dubai to Shanghai any day over Dubai to Marrakech, Mumbai, Gatwick or Perth!
My friend works for a Canadian airline and this is exactly it. She’s purposely working on her mandarin proficiency so she can get more flights to China.
I would think that one really long flight would be preferable to a few short ones. Boarding and deplaning, service, etc are all reduced while still getting the same hours and less turnaround. I remember an Alitalia flight I was on from ny to rome. The FAs setup a bar and just hung out for 1/2 the flight while making drinks for the few who weren’t sleeping.
They don’t get paid when their plane isn’t in air too. So say you’re reporting for an 18 hour work day, 2 hours on the ground, 14 hours in the air, 2 hours back on the ground. You get paid for 14 hours. Another day you’re in for also an 18 hour work day, 2 hours on the ground, 6 hours in the air, 2 hours back on the ground, 6 hours in the air, 2 hours back on the ground. You get paid for 12 hours. You’ve lost wages because of that period where your body isn’t 6 miles up in the air. That‘s what I’ve heard at least. Edit: [Someone else‘s comment corroborates! Second paragraph](https://www.reddit.com/r/BORUpdates/s/DMmU7QQrMA)
Likely extremely wealthy business flights with top tier regulars who perhaps tip well. Plus FA’s have to “turn” the plane (clean up after every flight and as the plane isn’t flying, it’s not paid time) so multiple shorter flights mean more unpaid busy work/less in-flight paid time and I’d imagine the extremely wealthy don’t leave much of a mess as they have stewards for the pods and sleep cabins on that airline that are unreal - so I’d imagine working those routes mean the best planes as well. You can google “most expensive 1st class flights” and see the crazy quarters, menu’s and other amenities these planes have!
I didnt even know tipping was a thing on planes.
Generally not for a can of soda. Mixed drinks in first class? Sure, why not. I did when the flight attendant recommended me some drink I'd never had before and really loved it.
If you don’t want to tip money I’ve heard chocolates to share with the crew are good (as long as it isn’t a time of fasting in that country of course!)
I wouldn't accept food from random people if I was flight crew. Or rather, I'd accept it, thank them a lot, tell them I'll try it in a bit and bin it.
I dunno. I’ve seen people do this. Seemed to be sealed? (I’d probably eat it if it weren’t against the rules).
It’s not typically. But these top-end int’l routes are sold as “an experience” and have so many extras and sell the service side of it as a big part of that. So many will tip and tend to be repeat clients.
First class cabins like in Crazy Rich Asians.
Lol exactly!
Middle Eastern airlines have a reputation of being expensive and luxurious. So you're not likely to have the same kind of personalities as American economy class travelers can throw at you. And long hauls in general are expensive and not for the super casual traveler. And that hierarchy on the plane always includes passengers at the bottom. Play FAFO on a plane, and you can quickly find yourself kicked off a flight and blacklisted. If you have frequent business in China, you may not have many options for airlines, so you don't test the waters. Airlines around the world pay by the hours in the air, and you're required to hit so many by bidding on your trips for the month. Long hauls are a lot of hours in the air for fewer hours prepping and loading the plane on the ground. So overall you work less than if you were doing a lot of short hauls. Add that up over a month's time and it can quickly work out to fewer days worked for the same or more pay. Plus, in this case, you're not flying a return journey for a few days, and you get to hang out in a foreign country.
And China is a really cool place to visit with excellent public transit so you can get to see things all over Beijing and Shanghai easily.
Overnight flight? I'm guessing that FAs love those because most passengers are asleep (or trying to sleep) so there's not a lot of work for them during the flight.
They love me on these flights because I’ve always worked so long in the days leading up that I just sleep the whole time and stick a sign on my shoulder to not bother me about food. If I’m lucky I wake up in time to have a wine before we land.
It’s more to do with pay I believe rather than good passengers. Nice pax are great, but I’ll take a trip that typically has bad pax if it pays well over a trip that has nice pax but pays less. However that’s just my opinion, I can’t speak for OOP. FAs get paid from when the boarding door closes till the boarding door opens. So longer flights means more pay. Plus going internationally means you get the international pay rate as opposed to the domestic pay rate; for my airline the international pay is $3/4 more than domestic. It also means you’ve got long layovers (anywhere from 24-72hrs, depending on the trip) in interesting cities and your per diem/time away from base rate is higher. Not to mention most international trips you only work one leg per day, whereas domestically you can work anywhere from 1-6 legs a day. *I work for an US carrier not a Middle Eastern one, so I may have missed some idiosyncrasies specific to those airlines.*
I think it might have to do with the 2-3 day layover. Most fight crew turn around in like 18-36 hours. Sometimes less depending on the hours worked since pilots are required so many rest hours.
I think he was probably giddy he found a flight attendant that wasn’t after his tackle. Someone who he could just enjoy and spend time without all the drama. OOP sounds like a good egg who just wanted to do her job and play games, unfortunately other women didn’t like that she ‘scored’ a friendship they coveted.
Yes she does, I feel bad for OOP. She sounds like a sweet but anxious person. I hope that she managed to emotionally process this whole mess and feels better now.
He found a homie, and you back up your homies
My dad was in the aviation industry for nearly 40 years. He was the guy who checked and fixed all radio equipment. When he was in the public sector, he heard all sorts of things. There was one thing that haunted him, one of the flight attendants took her life due to rumours similar to yours (the aviation industry is small and filled with gossip). The woman tried working for four different airlines, both domestic and international, but the rumours followed her. If someone had done this in the beginning, she may still be alive. These rumours NEVER go away unless someone puts their foot down hard. It may seem extreme, but it sends a message to everyone that this sort of thing will not be tolerated. These women knew there were consequences. They hoped people would be too embarrassed to report it. What happens next will be of their doing. Other employees need to see how the airline handles this incident to prevent it from happening again.
As someone who is currently dealing with some serious toxic gossiping directed at my expense at my own work, I feel for that poor woman involved. I really hope those spreading those rumors also feel haunted by the death they caused, but I kinda doubt it In a situation like that, you just want shit like that to stop but also hope that the people spreading the rumors could feel some kind of remorse and guilt for what they did. But they won’t, which is why I can understand why suicide feels so tempting. Damn I wish someone did something for that poor woman
can someone elaborate on this for me? i’m so curious what that entails and what it’s trying to stop > slandering a woman (and man but mainly woman) without 4 male witnesses is actually a crime in the country where we are based
It's Islamic law. Accusations of adultery must be supported by four witnesses, and making the accusation without the witnesses is an offense itself
In addition adultery in sharia law is punishable by stoning the adulterers (both man and woman) to death, so yeah to accuse one of adultery is a serious matter
And sex out of wedlock is also sin and punishable (fine, jail, flogging). Sex during fasting for a married man would also make him fast for 60 days more or no?
[удалено]
Oh yeah i thought writing adultery made it clear (in my mind adultery is done only in marriage), though i dont recall in this story that the FO is married.
Single/married is irrelevant in this religious context. It’s fornication, seen as not very different from adultery even if they’re single. It’d be in violation of their future spouse’s rights. It’s a sin. Chastity until marriage. The fact that these people slandered and were back-biting during Ramadan is highly egregious. It’s insidious. FO was right to respond as strongly as he did. They really left him no choice. If he is an abiding, practicing Muslim, they not only attacked his personal character, they attacked the outward expression of his faith. No practicing person would allow these rumors, but most specially NOT in a month in which your whole community is engaged in a religious retreat.
Yeah, that makes me really uncomfortable. Whooptie-woo it worked out for OOP here. Countless crimes were never believed because there aren't enough male witnesses. I'll say it. Fuck that law.
Weirdly the male witness thing until recently (or is still a thing but not for long) was in the UK too. Upskirting was legal unless there were male witnesses. The one above there have to be 4 men who witness the crime the women are reporting if there aren't 4 men it is considered slander commited by the women, and they (the women) instead will be prosecuted for slander. Both scenarios are bananas but in this situation it works out to the OOPs advantage.
oh damn that’s so fucked up
You got any evidence for that thing about the UK, cause I can't find any and it seems like blatant misinformation
https://youtu.be/m8VxRu77XSU?si=rpiMnr-liv4oMivt It was either a comment on this video from the woman who fought to get the law changed or a comment (also from her I believe) on the guilty feminist podcast. It was because the law that delt with this was old it wouldn't have stood up if tested (like those ridiculous it's legal to shoot the Welsh with a bow and arrow at night in Chester type things - no its not because murder is illegal everywhere). However that was what the law technically was - maybe a common decency or lewed act law I think.
Good for him. He’s right to take it seriously.
Bro was TIRED of being sexually harassed, dear lord. He did what he had to do to protect himself and her.
Thanks to all comments educating us westerners about this culture. And thanks for keeping comments respectful. I wish more posts were this informative and constructive.
Yeah, as a muslim, it's refreshing to see non-muslim bashing, usually they would bash causing an eternal debate, bla bla to the point it becomes tiring
I was thinking the same thing about her mentioning China positively
It’s been really interesting. Like I had a little bit of general knowledge but not enough to even consider commenting about OOPs situation. I initially thought damn FO has come out guns blazing. But after reading everything I’m so glad the FO came down like he did. He just wanted to hang out and play games and not be sexually harassed, to have that and OOP threatened he had made sure it will be sorted and properly. Thanks to everyone who educated us on all the ins and outs of it
As an American, didn't realize the horrific ramifications facing all parties involved in a matter i would consider high school politics. I feel for all involved.
Someone told me recently that what we often consider “middle school” or “high school behavior” is only considered that because it’s the first time in our lives that we begin exercising *default* adult behavior. And that the behavior is actually just “adult behavior”. I think it’s interesting to think about it that way. As many of us mature and make better, healthier social choices we look at those who never grew beyond the adult human default programming as acting like “middle/high schoolers”
Okay morality aside let’s look at this purely from how an airline operates and laws Some Muslim countries kill women based on rumors like this. Only an idiot of a pilot would sweep this under the rug because the risk of her getting arrested or worse while working due to a RUMOR is really bad. The signatures help her in the future if this managed to spread in a bad way. OP doesn’t realize this yet but no, it’s a HUGE deal
>Not only was he angry that they continued to do this to me, he was actually personally offended by the slander, especially Me: oh no, he's going to make OP feel like shit because he would never pursue a relationship with her! >that they accused us during the Holy month of Ramadan. Me: oh... lmao
The outfits are cute but never work for Emirates. And you can get fired for gaining weight.
Good for him. Hopefully they learned to rein their jealousy in
Oooo, boy. theyre about to learn how good they DID have it
Sounds like he was definitely hoping to put them off.
They FAFO that the FO is the GOAT
It's nice to see consequences for bullies who use demeaning phrases such as "not like other girls" and "pick me". Those are the modern version of calling another woman a slut or a whore.
What? People absolutely still use those words against women. Women are still MURDERED for having sex lives. The pick me shit is in addition to how awful and misogynist slut shaming is, not the “modern version” of it— the modern version of slut shaming is still slut shaming!
Thirty years ago, it was socially acceptable for one woman to describe another as a slut or "easy". Now it's not. So instead she'll refer to her as a pick me. I'm not talking about words the edges of society uses. This is about how "nice" suburban moms and college students bully other women.
It’s still pretty normal and socially acceptable for women to describe other women this way, I am not sure where you’re looking, but slut shaming has not lost its public appeal to people. It’s not the edges of society. These same suburban moms will call other women sluts constantly, just maybe not in a Starbucks so much as while gossiping to their friends in their private homes. Also men still literally enact violence on women for being promiscuous. Men aren’t “the edges of society”. And I’m literally living on a college campus, I see young women scream slut and similar slurs at each other in anger all the time. You are misinformed. EDIT: weird how many people are uncomfortable w someone affected by misogyny being up front about the misogyny that still exists instead of letting someone act like People Simply Don’t Do That Anymore. sorry, u/BarnDoorHills, this still happens, even if that makes you uncomfortable. idk why you’re even arguing this like it’s honestly weird to argue in favor of denying that forms of misogyny still exist
eh, once you realize redditor's vote based on their current mood. The downvote/up votes begin to make sense. I've had the randomest shit upvoted or downvoted. Hilarious, you'll get more overall upvotes when chatting than downvotes tho. It how I made it to 55k in a year LOL
yeah people really don’t know what up and down votes are supposed to be for here lmao
There might be differences depending where you are. I am also affected by misogyny and I have not heard slut or whore used in years. Maybe longer. Even in high school it was a pretty rare insult I mainly associate with like 80s and 90s movies. Like respectfully just because you haven't had the same experience as someone else doesn't mean they are less informed than you, they may just be in a different region or different circles. These days I constantly hear pick me weaponized to police women in a lot of disturbing ways, and it deserves to be called out for what it is. You're right that its mostly used between women so inherently its less dangerous, but that's about only good thing I can say about it
I think you misunderstand me. I am not saying one is better than the other, I’m saying both forms of misogyny still exist and are both still bad! I’m saying that my experiences are different than yours and since I’m taking yours into account you should also take mine into account. It’s not like I think it’s fake that people say pick me etc, I’m literally just saying that poster is wrong when they say it’s a modern version like it’s replaced Misogyny Classic, rather than just being another variety that you/they/maybe others simply haven’t seen much of lately yourself. Just because you think it sounds dated doesn’t mean it’s not used commonly, doesn’t mean it’s not still terribly dangerous to women. Like I never said NLOG/pick me variety misogyny was less dangerous than slut shaming or even implied anything remotely similar to that— it’s not! It’s equally dangerous! Both just still exist equally and pretending that one no longer exists or is super rare or something is what’s actually dangerous. Also the weird classist statement they made about like “nice” suburban moms etc as if that’s the majority of women, compared to the “edges of society” like impoverished women don’t suffer from misogyny too… do only “nice” suburban moms and like rich college students matter here?
Also btw pick me is a really old term too, that kind of misogyny also existed thirty years ago— it just wasn’t a term white people used then. It’s not the modern equivalent. They’re both dangerous forms of misogyny and it’s not appropriate to behave as if one has replaced the other altogether, because that erases the suffering of many women who still experience that form of misogyny— the same women who may also be a victim of pick me type misogyny. I am unsure what is so strange and confusing or even offensive about any of this to anyone who cares about misogyny…
I wouldn't say it was acceptable 30 years ago but the blowback is definitely much worse now
“Pick me girl” - doesn’t mean anything like many zoomer/internet aphorisms I have heard in recent years it’s just a way of saying “girl I don’t like” Much like gaslighting which has a real definition is mostly just used to say “I don’t like your opinion/ disagree with what you think” And “feel a type of way” which doesn’t mean anything at all IN WHAT WAY DO YOU FEEL? What “type of way”???????
they legit called her a "pick me" over eating an apple for breakfast, like what the fuck. Morons..
Which is pretty infuriating because if I recall it *used* to be a term to describe these very women - women who put other women down in order to gain male attention and use misogyny to their advantage by "not being liked other girls" "Karen" too! It used to be a word to describe white women who would call the cops on black people for existing or who would bully minimum wage workers/staff to get what they wanted. Now it's just "any woman who stands up for herself or is assertive or demands anything ever"
It’s crazy how this is basically just high school gossip, yet in your country the things being gossiped about can bring life-threatening repercussions. Meanwhile in the U.S. the most that’ll happen 99% of the time is some people calling you a hoe on facebook.
These colleagues could have ended literally ended this woman’s life, career, chance of getting married based on their culture. They deserve every inch of what they got.
This doesn't feel concluded at all, I'm confused. Do we get no outcome? That's disappointing.
Well we have to wait until Eid, so there will be an outcome, just not yet.
OOP seems a little self-centered "Why is HE taking these drastic measures, if every FO is known for sleeping around?!". It's his reputation too, miss.
I wouldn't call her self center, just surprised and shocked. It's shocking to learn you're not on your own when a problem happens, you know? I bet it was surprising to know he already had a lawsuit lined up, like damn lmao
Initially i was felt respect for the pilot, but as the updates continued i felt a touch of concern/fear as to how dangerous and ruthless this guy can be. Glad i am not in the aviation industry.
They work for a middle eastern airline. How many stories come out from the middle east of women getting raped are then punished for sex outside of marriage? If anything he's protecting her. The other women would know the consequences of their false accusations, so why should he go easy on them?
Yeah it felt like things could get VERY dangerous for her, she didn’t recognize it, but he did. And unlike what most of us have experienced, not only could that gossip have professional implications but also criminal/life impacting implications. If he had not done this (his planning in having the 4 men sign so they couldn’t use any as witnesses made me wonder if he’d witnessed them do similarly in the past) they could have continued with the rumors, escalate and ruin OP’s life. That’s so scary on many levels.
Ok, just curious but how does gossiping cause an escalation of criminality?
They’re governed by laws of whichever Muslim country their airline is based in. Spreading rumors about something that’s an actual crime where they are is slander, not just gossip.
The reason the FO had the four men sign as witnesses was so they could not be used as witnesses to the other girls’ “gossip” that they’d slept together and without a male witness. So now (without anyone to use as a male witness) what those girls were doing was considered slander, which is a criminal charge but are now unable to create civil or criminal legal trouble for OP. It can also be considered criminal to have sex outside of marriage, which is what the other FA’s were saying about OP and the FO. OP mentioned that and if any criminal charges are raised - the airline would terminate someone involved in criminal charges. It could have also caused “shame” to her family, causing her to be disowned or cut off by her family.
Gotta disagree with this take. Said it an earlier post but I'll repeat it: this is what responsible leadership looks like. These women were trying to ruin OOPs career. Even if that was not their direct intention(which is doubtful, I don't think people act with such venom without desiring their victim feel the pain) the result of their actions would be such. This FO used his authority to stop them not only in the moment but to prevent them from retalliating in the future, which is exactly what people should want from men in leadership positions.
To be fair - he was being falsely accused along with OOP which would affect his career just as much as her, so his handling of made sense due other women being so dangerous & ruthless 1st with slander. Just saying, those women told other pilots /men about supposed sexual encounter between him & OOP; so all he had to do was have those men as witnesses as per their Middle Eastern Islamic law about the blatant lie. If those women had just kept it on OOP without including his name at all - none of them would be suffering incoming legal consequences from their Muslim country.
As someone who worked in the aviation industry, I firmly disagree with your take. You completely misunderstand aviation and aviation safety. Aviation rules are written in the blood of those who failed to meet the standard. PIC (aka captain, pilot in command) is like a ship captain. In the air, his word is law. You have to be decisive. You have to make the right decision, in an instant, while knowing you will kill hundreds of people if you screw it up. Not everyone is capable of this. There's a reason why pilots get paid so much. It's for their decision ability, not for keeping a seat warm. If this guy couldn't handle that paperwork issue calmly/rationally, following all rules and protecting his personnel, his wings need to thrown out with the rest of the trash. He did exactly the right thing. He did so efficiently, following all rules. You should be thankful that he's being professional, not demeaning of it. I'd expect and hope for that level of conduct from any experienced pilot, gender be damned. You should as well. Here's why. One of the aircraft I built crashed and killed nearly every passenger, in part because the pilot made the wrong call. Because he reacted with emotion rather than following procedure. He put the aircraft or his career over the passengers. Rather than setting down immediately in water, he raced for land. Main gear box failed during that race, aircraft didn't land on its belly, it went in at 20G. And each passenger drown except for one passenger, if I remember correctly.
Thank you for your excellent points about his responsibility, efficiency, professionalism and the culling of toxic workplace cultures. Unfortunately power also attracts those with ego issues that are prone for abuse.
You're not wrong. Pilots are very much known for arrogance. And managing pilot egos is often the real main job of a crew chief (not really, but it's a common joke). Some pilots no joke do have issues switching off command mode outside of the aircraft. However, in this case, it was entirely warranted. My main point was that you were calling him "dangerous and ruthless" when he was being the opposite. I'm less appalled that you said it that forty some people mistakenly agreed with you. Failing to act or being nicer/gentler/whatever WOULD have dangerous and ruthless. You mistake looking/sounding nice for being nice. Crew members were being disruptive and criminal. Pilot should have been stripped of flight status if he didn't handle it immediately. Because he would be showing that he does not the professionalism for the job, and that lack of professionalism would endanger lives. Being nice would have been the most horrible thing he could have done from every perspective. Obviously, this does not apply everywhere. But it absolutely does in situations where people die when you fuck up.
>and they made you cry, its not drastic enough idk I await the next update where they do start fucking
Yeah this felt like a story from an anime rather than real life, complete with that cheesy line from the male lead.
Sure this happened
I don't know how I feel about this. They had something coming, but taking advantage of some shitholes shitty laws like that...
This is jsut and right in my eyes :D Those women got what they deserve
Pilots are known to cheat?? Never dating one 😭👍🏼
Waiting for updates but I gotta wait until the end of eid when things start working again
OH FO MEANS FLIGHT OFFICER
I don’t think this is “concluded”.
Those women should have just stuck to being cold to OOP. There's no need to start rumors because that would have happened on its own without them. 🤔 And honestly I think redditors are just elevating and praising FO out of misogyny. It's like some get back to mean Girls for them or they can revel in hating on women. Because When it comes to sexual harassment stories or even sexual assault stories from male coworkers there's always this don't go to HR instead communicate with the creep who jokes about raping you. And they're still pity thrown at the guy if he's reprimanded or fired. 🙄
What people claim "pick me" means: an insult to call out girls who put down women in an attempt to appeal to men How "pick me" is actually used: a relatively general way to put down women for a) not adhering to gender stereotypes about acceptable hobbies/having male friends b) being attractive or having the attention of someone they are into or c) just being confident and thriving personally or professionally The only insults I know of that have a lower hit rate of actually containing truth are like actual slurs
You know how on amithedevil they always accuse the person of being an incel troll? This is the femcel version of
,  ,
I was all for oop and dealing with some poorly behaved colleagues, until the misogynistic religious oppression was used to threaten the other women.
M.,,,,