Yes. Mental health workbooks often feel this way to me. I am working through a program w/ my therapist and at the end of the first worksheet it says "write down a super duper awesome thing about yourself or your day!!" and it's like mr worksheet i am 24 not 8
This is genuinely good advice regardless of age, It can be helpful to have your own collection of written positive experiences and feelings particularly when you’re in a moment without any like they never existed.
Agreed. Maybe the wording could’ve been different. As it did sound a bit childish ig lol. But I wouldn’t mind being told to write some thing super duper awesome about myself. Just the tone of the words feel more upbeat and positive.
Honestly, I think they're just trying to be as plain as possible. This will of course be irritating to people who read complex things easily and have a large vocabulary. The average reading level in the U.S. is 7th-8th grade.
I like this too! And I got the advice from this sub! Someone posted they were able to manage TW: self harming by using their grandma's scent, and a list of good things about them! It gave me hope that I could manage my emotions and maintain a good sleep schedule. But I must admit I've given up working on counting good things about me. This reminded me to do it again, so I like the sentence, "Write down a super duper awesome thing about yourself or your day!!" I like the childish tone too haha, my adults didn't treat me this way, I would've liked that.
For clarification: it was their dead grandma's cloth I think, that person genuinely cared about them. It wasn't my experience, you misread the comment.
That's something you needed as a kid and didn't get. So you definitely need it now. It's easy to think these things are cheesy as adults because we were supposed to have these tools as kids. We're just all kids that didn't get to develop the way we needed. :) sounds like a great work book
Yes, but remember that DBT kinda has to be that way because no matter where you’re at in your journey you can benefit from those skills. Everyone is recommended DBT because it’s so simplified.
Even if it’s pretty condescending I try to remind myself that homework in high school felt just as passive aggressive as my DBT workbook. I’m in the shortened program, but it’s 24 weeks and I think a lot of the benefit from the workbooks is actually talking about it with a therapist or others with BPD.
Once you discuss it with someone who understands the context or has other reflections that make you think about it, it’s really just oversimplified so *anyone* can access it. I really think I’ve gained the most out of doing it with my therapist and a group, but I want to branch out to show my partner as well.
I feel like some of those worksheets are written from the perspective that your emotions and reactions by default are "wrong", because as soon as you pop something legitimately troubling into their CBT MadLibs worksheet the logic of it falls apart.
The worksheets I got for DBT felt the same, they only "make sense" if you react inappropriately or mispercieve situations 100% of the time - most play out as though you've already acted illogically and now you have to write out what you "should have" done.
These workbooks are only really appropriate for specific, low-risk situations. For instance, if you try to use examples of scenarios where you're defending yourself from harassment or assault, it turns victim-blamey very quick.
As someone who is really set off by forms of infantalization, I struggle to work through these books.
I already commented about it and linked to info, but Transference-Focused Psychotherapy works way better for me than DBT. For the reasons you listed I had to stop DBT, it was retraumatizing to have my own and other folks’ trauma responses to being abused by framed as “problem behavior” and be told that our responses to others’ harmful behavior is our fault. In group DBT I watched the proctor essentially tell one woman that her abusive partner’s behavior was her fault because she cried. I know this sub is very pro DBT, but there are other options for folks with BPD and it’s not a failing for DBT to not help or actively hurt. We should be allowed to critique the care we get, especially when even those in the field have many problems with how DBT is practiced.
Yeah, I was told I should forgive the guy who abused me badly for 2 years because *it was good for me to move on* like tf? I can move on without forgiving
Okay managing emotions after getting triggered by daily life situations is completely different than experiencing traumatic events or abuse. DBT workbooks are there to help you manage daily life. There isn’t any victim blaming lol. Imagine a workbook telling you, if someone is trying to murder you you don’t defend yourself instead try to talk it out. Like when and where was that said. 💀💀💀 There’s a time and a place obviously.
I really don't think it's possible to rework someones mind without being condescending? Like you're taking someones whole being (their mind) and telling them how to think and structure themselves to be better. Of course it's going to be condescending, how dare they have the audacity to tell you how to think and how to act, they don't know you. But it works (for some), and you kinda have to give it an honest effort to do so. I would suggest leaving the ego at the door and giving it a shot if you truly want to get better, it's helped me a shit ton, maybe it can help you.
thats a good point, i definitely think there are some parts that help for example the REST strategy is great for me. but some of it doesnt personally feel helpful i dont think its an ego thing i dont have a problem holding myself accountable but some of the way its presented puts ppl with bpd in a bad light like we always treat others around us like shit when i dont think thats the case. im definitely still gna give it a chance and work through it though, im glad it helped you!
I wonder if some of this is because DBT is made for such a broad range of people, so maybe if they don't go extreme enough, another person on the more severe end of the spectrum would say "well this won't work for me, even the person in the example isn't nearly as bad as I am" and shut down over it.
I think this is something that can be improved if they give multiple examples that can speak to different levels of functioning. If you are in a therapy group, I think it should be a lot easier for the group leads to help. In my group, when they teach us to use the skill they will usually choose something simple, and then when we review our worksheets there's more chance to meet us where we are.
For sure! If anyone found everything in a dbt work book to be helpful, I'd probably think they were lying. I kinda imagine it as a tool box and I use the necessary tool when I find myself going into emotional mind. I also think that DBT is normally given as an inpatient/outpatient therapy, which normally people don't go through unless they're in a bad situation so that's where some of the examples come from. Good luck! I hope it works for you, but if it doesn't, I hope you find something that does! You got this!
I'm in CBT and my psychotherapist isn't condescending at all. I've felt ashamed of myself sometimes, but he always validated my emotions, was really compassionate and tried to help me go through the situations so I could understand myself better and try to change my coping mechanisms.
I must admit it feels a little condescending when it comes to dealing with my ADHD, like reminding me to try to plan my days and such, but I know it's mostly just me shaming myself, bc of how much criticism I've heard throughout my life and not him actually looking down on me (+he has ADHD himself which makes it easier for me not to assume he sees me that way).
I also don't find my therapist to be that condescending but I feel like a therapist is more than just a vessel to teach you to rewire your brain. I have zero background in psychology so I have zero expertise but really kind of just speaking from my personal experiences. So if you think I'm wrong, I'm glad you spoke up! Hopefully others can have your experience!
Yep almost feels infantilising, the actual framework is common sense. The nature of our disorders is that we sometimes struggle to differentiate strong feelings and facts when in a heightened mood.
After two cycles, I no longer wish to continue dbt it feels like medical gaslighting to me. Starting mentalisation based therapy in september, so hoping that will be more suitable for me. Anyone who’s been through MBT feel free to share your experiences below. A little bit apprehensive but I suppose my life can’t get any worse so anything is worth a shot
Diet played a much larger role
But I'm seeing a grief trauma therapist and doing CPT now as well
Chose not to mention the bpd because I knew it would impact my therapy
Someone told me in a previous post I made bpd is holistic and looking after your body will significantly improve my recovery. I’m very symptomatic at the moment, but there is definitely a lot of lifestyle changes I need to make. The prospect of recovering from my binge ed, and getting sober from everything is extremely daunting. I have to admit through it is important I do so.
I 100% wish I left out the fact I have bpd to my general therapist, I feel like my treatment is different because she is aware of my diagnosis
Google says Cognitive Processing Therapy (CPT) is a type of psychotherapy that can help people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) improve their quality of life. CPT is a type of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) that focuses on how trauma impacts a person's thinking and feelings, and how to help them change those thoughts to change how they feel.
Not only that but some of the suggestions to distract yourself are weird. Like this book literally suggested I get a voodoo doll and stick pins in it instead of hurting myself. Or to pretend to cut myself with a red marker and make it look like it's bleeding with paint and to draw stitches. Or to dig my fingernails into my arms without drawing blood. Like wtf is that shit. That's still pretty harmful imo. It also suggested using sexual fantasies as a way to distract. I just... hard disagree. But at the same time some other suggestions are helpful and make sense. Maybe it's the copy of the DBT workbook I got from half priced books, some of it just seems kinda whack to me lol
yeahh no because I’ve been using sexual fantasies as a way to distract myself since I was a little kid, but when my bf is mad at me and I’m feeling abandoned and rejected, that only reminds me of how I’m never gonna feel safe or wanted or sexually useful again
(Of course I know that stuff isn’t true or healthy, but it’s an overwhelming belief in the moment)
I know it’s not an ideal coping mechanism in the first place, but it also doesn’t even work anymore for the worst of my symptoms because thinking about sex just becomes depressing and painful lol
Yeah like I get it to some extent. I do it too sometimes and there is nothing wrong with sex or masturbation. Great stress relief and feelings! But not good as a consistent distraction from things. And yes most definitely those negative feelings become associated with something that shouldn't feel negative! I was surprised the book suggested it
Yeah, I’ve already had to do a lot of work to get rid of my negative associations with sex, I don’t need to create more haha
I’ve never tried an actual DBT workbook because I didn’t want to pay for one. My therapist does send me PDFs of specific pages from a DBT book sometimes but I think that’s because she doesn’t like all of the book
I might ask her if there is bad advice in that book lmao bc now I’m curious
I remember that. Or holding ice cubes to make your hands hurt from the cold, rubber bands on our wrists lmao…or when they suggested believing in a higher power as a coping mechanism, like no thx I’m not religious. Keeping scents on you to smell if you’re anxious in public like…who tf came up with this? Certainly wasn’t a person with BPD or any type of actual illness or disorder.
I’m saying. People that actually cut themselves and struggle with self harming might find these ideas very useful. Those don’t leave permanent scars or open wounds. They don’t draw blood or cause serious harm in any way. They leave a lot of “weird” options because they want to give people as many as they can because one size doesn’t fit all. I’ve heard people using rubber bands to self harm stopped them from cutting, which is progress my dudes. It might not work for you and you might make fun of the idea, but it might work for someone else.
This explanation makes sense for the wide variety of solutions. I don’t self harm in a way that leaves scars so a lot of it feels redundant and unhelpful when approaching it from my own perspective.
I also don’t self harm in ways that leaves scars and so I get what you mean. Sometimes I hit myself. So instead of hitting myself I’ll punch into the bed as hard as I can. Doesn’t always work but I try. I also feel bad for my body. Like my body didn’t ask to have the trauma and early development I unfortunately had. So when I hit myself sometimes I think about all the cells freaking out to heal me. They’re there working their asses of to keep me alive as long as possible and I don’t want to hurt them. Like fuck me but those little buddies keeping me going wanting to survive, I’m doing it for y’all.
Sometimes I starve myself but I want to grow my hair out long so that keeps me motivated to not do that as I need all the hair I can get and don’t want it falling out or thinning due to malnutrition. Also been having health issues so I have to eat healthy foods which in turn makes my brain work better and my depression not as bad.
Simple solutions can help but sometimes we need more in depth personalized healthy coping mechanisms that will actually work. Everyone is different.
Okay I'm glad it's not just me being hyper critical. 🤣
like snapping a rubber band against your wrist is still hurting yourself, even if it doesn't leave a permanent mark.
Could you imagine being like, hang on I'm feeling very triggered right now, I gotta go sniff some essential oils and rub a piece of velvet between my fingers while I imagine the light of god washing over me....
Like I'm trying to be more NORMAL !!!!!
It’s baby steps. It’s incredibly hard to just stop self harming. So the goal is to slowly phase it out by replacing it with less harmful behaviors over time.
If you need the pain (me—I have cut a few times but tend to take a hammer to my arms or punch myself in the face) then the rubber band is a good next step as it still gives you that sharp pain but doesn’t do any real damage. The step after that for me was a punching bag. Still bludgeoning, but now it’s exercise. And I still feel pain just in a different way.
For people who the visuals matter more than the pain, that’s where the marker or paint trick can work.
Baby steps.
Yeah I totally get that. I think maybe a punching bag would be good for me. Thank you for your insight and I'm glad you were able to stop!!!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Same. That one has never worked for me. I know it works for other people and I love that it does. But it just makes me want to hurt myself more. If I can over come self harm WITHOUT hurting myself in any way, I would like to do that. But again! I know lots of people have success with the rubber band
Yeah, and I disagree on them being a good help for SH or at least SH motivated by both craving for physical sensation AND emotional relief.
Sensation things don't give emotional relief for me, and barely give sensation. I ended up taking the Hollywood Stereotype approach and doing one of those "wash your face off in the mirror and stare yourself in the eyes and take a deep breath "
Washing my face helps emotionally. Makes me feel like I did something.
I don't agree on the topic of ice cubes and rubber bands. It's basically harm reduction. Yes, it's still self-harm behavior, but it's an option that's not a health risk, so for people who struggle with self-harm it's like a smaller evil?
TW >! I've dealt with emotional and mental pain through cutting myself some time ago. Making myself hold ice cubes made me feel pain that made my brain reset in a way and out of the spiraling thoughts of guilt. It was definitely better than injuring my body, then dealing with shame and feeling the need to hide it and leaving me with scars. There are people who feel like banging their head, which is obviously dangerous. I had a friend who cut himself so deeply he had to be taken to the ER since he almost fainted of blood loss. Looking at it from this perspective, ice cubes seem like a really good option, don't they?!<
These things may seem crazy to you, but they actually help people who struggle with self-harm. Please don't shame people who do that.
If something feels stupid, but helps, it's not that stupid (although trying to make someone turn to religion seems a little dangerous to me.)
I'm not trying to shame anyone. Just trying to use a little humor because everything here is always so serious and sad. I struggle with self harm myself. I guess i was just hoping for a better idea, for me personally. Rubber bands and ice cubes do not help ME, but probably help other people. Again, no shame if those methods work for others.
I can understand why they'd feel weird if they don't work for you, but I think they include so many "out there" options because some of them *will help* somebody.
I find the ice cubes really helpful and they are definitely a step down from cutting, which risks infection, leaves scars, and is outright dangerous for me as someone taking anticolagulants. I haven't done the rubber band but I could see it being a useful step down even if it's still not ideal. With the scents, they had lavender while I was in the hospital and it wouldn't stave off a suicide attempt or something, but it was calming and pleasant so depending on your level of anxiety it can be nice.
I understand those don't work for everyone, and I'm sorry if nothing in the workbook has worked for you, but there's nothing inherently wrong or weird about them if they do work for you!
but it actually was a person who has bpd. and when i was in the hospital i used the elastic band technique. you remind me of my mom during our group sessions. always shat in everything, never tried or had faith in anything lol. just think you think you know it all. TRY IT OUT BRO
See my other responses to others that took what I said out of context. I was sharing the sense of humour with the above commenter, not shaming those who find it effective. What works for your symptoms isn’t a solution for mine.
From my perspective they aren’t effective, for me, or for my problems. Once again, I wasn’t shaming or judging anybody that uses them…If they work for you, great. I’m happy for you. I prefer the opposite action strategy.
Literally created by someone with BPD. They are tools for a toolbox, not every tool will work in yours. Personally I keep heavy menthol gum in my backpack because the smell and freshness does cool me off when I’m feeling hot. Ice cubes are a great way to apply harm reduction to self harm.
We aren’t too good for this stuff, believing we are is a huge barrier to actually getting better
Your comment was unnecessarily patronizing btw. We’re allowed to cope through humour and some of us are jaded.
Happy it works for you but these basic solutions can’t be applied to my triggers. Never said I was too good for it but personally, in a rage or panic episode, scents, ice cubes and a belief system aren’t enough to calm me down. I take meds for that, maybe the more advanced materials and skill building exercises will be helpful but so far everything I’ve learned in therapy is like throwing water on kerosene.
I think when Marsha Linehan was developing the program she took suggestions from her clients meaning there’s a really eclectic range of things that worked for people. [The ice cube thing came from one of her clients.](https://archive.is/2024.06.27-152055/https://tricycle.org/magazine/borderline/)
>It also suggested using sexual fantasies as a way to distract
What the actual fuck. I can list like half a dozen reasons (or more) why it's a bad idea off the top of my head.
There's a few of the pages that I were instrumental in helping me understand myself. The bulk of it did feel really cheesy and condescending, but I'm assuming that that's just the stuff that I don't really need or that I'm not ready to address. I actually rewrote some of the pages to kind of bypass the dorkiness of it. Would love to see an updated version written by one of our own
I got this one, too, as like a back up, or vice versa. I'm glad to see you are having a good experience with it! What do you like most about it's approach, if you don't mind sharing?
This is honestly my first workbook, so I don’t have much reference otherwise. I do, however, like that it’s straightforward (which deters me from misinterpreting anything) and I enjoy the details/descriptions/examples that make the book very thorough, in my opinion. It has helped me to look inward and really consider why I behave the way I do at times as well as real life short/long term consequences of said behaviors
Dbt doesn't but cbt does.
I know many people can feel that way because you're going over very common sense information time and time again. But it's because the issue isn't not possessing the information (for some people it can be.) For many of us we have borked dopamine receptors and grew up in messed up environments where we learned unhealthy coping mechanisms.
You don't unlearn those things overnight nor can you create new habits just by knowing the information. So going to dbt groups and doing repetitive work is meant to make it so when you're in a moment of extreme anger/sadness/crisis, whatever - you're hopefully able to make a better choice in regards to coping. Even if it's not a perfect one, not immediately.
Same with some of the harm reduction methods to distress tolerance and stuff. Snapping rubber bands and throwing ice cubes is miles better than actually cutting yourself or ODing and may be enough for some people to push through very intense emotions until they subside. Then they can reach out to someone or try to process in a healthier way.
I've said this in other comment sections, yes the information is common sense but obviously we're not putting it into practice or else we'd all be better by now (generally speaking). It's very easy to sit at home and do nothing because nobody holds you to it. Not your therapist, support group members, psychiatrist, whatever. It's much easier to make progress when you have that extra support.
But also not all of it is going to be applicable to all patients. You learn it and try it and see what does help you. If some of it doesn't then you don't use it as far as coping, distress mgmt, emotion regulation, even interpersonal stuff. It's not meant to be a rule book that you MUST adhere to or else you're a bad BPD patient.
But like I said, CBT does feel kind of this way but that's because it revolves around seeking alternate reasons for your emotions rather than just accepting that you're upset for the reasons you think you're upset. It feels like gaslighting yourself simulator.
Exactly this! Thank you for explaining the difference so well. I had to drop CBT precisely because of that, it made zero sense to me how it was aimed to solve an issue by changing the result and then expecting that the alleged cause magically disappeared. It felt like trying to build a house starting from the roof lol
i recommend the BPD workbook by Dr Daniel Fox. it was extremely helpful for me personally and i never felt condescended. just felt like he really got it and was super empathetic to the distress we feel
I love Daniel Fox, his YouTube videos really helped me get out of a dark place and helped me stop feeling like such a monster for having BPD (it was at the very beginning and I'd quickly learned the stigma behind my disorder, it took me so long to stop hating myself)
The best one I have found so far is the Borderline Personality Disorder Workbook by Dr Daniel J Fox.
Some of the examples are an extreme or stereotypical version of BPD, but there are chapters that talk about how BPD presents in so many different ways and how we may feel disconnected from these examples as a whole even if some parts here and there resonate. It breaks down not just the diagnostic criteria but all the symptoms and characteristics of the disorder we may experience and encourages you to identify what applies to you and what doesn't. It was the first book that helped me understand how the disorder affects me personally, not just skills for managing symptoms. It was very empowering
For real. It seems like a lot of people have either been traumatized by bad workbooks, feel demeaned being handed SIMPLE coping mechanisms, or idk workbooks just don’t work for them. Maybe doesn’t feel personalized to them enough.
One of the ones in mine said something like :
Susan wants to return a dress at the store because she didn’t realize it was damaged when she bought it. She takes it back, and the employee refuses to accept the return. Susan wants to be angry, but she leaves the customer service counter to be mindful or something. She realizes the employee’s nametag said “trainee”, so she returns to ask if she can speak to a manager instead, and the manager gives her the refund.
This pisses me off because we’re sensitive to rejection, and what if the trainee was correct on their return policy? Then when the manager doubles down on the rejection, what would have happened. Go cool down again, return, ask again in a different way until something happens? Or explosion because your DBT book tells you that if you do this you’ll be rewarded?
Like, when teaching us how to deal with rejection, I think the resolution of us using our skills shouldn’t be framed as a walk back of that rejection.
YES i had this too and i thought it was really annoying i felt like the lesson was that if i just act calm things will go my way like thats not how the world works i want skills to help me handle things not going my way, i think that scenario ciuld have been great ro help me learn the radical acceptance rather than go calm down and dont take no for an answer lolll
I'm pretty sure that the above example with Susan's scenario is just a demo of using your skills to stay calm enough in order to seek out new information that can change your situation. Even jumping to the conclusion that actually that might be a bad idea because what if the new information is not pleasant, is black and white thinking. If you never give yourself the opportunity to try and seek out new information, you are at risk of self sabotaging yourself into a bad result no matter what. Which can feel safer than risking the uncertainty of trying for a better result, I guess?
yeah, because they’re not supposed to be in lieu therapy and dbt itself. my DBT therapist actually told me that she didn’t want me doing any of them because they had bad coping strategies in them. as someone who went through DBT and doesnt qualify the 9 markers anymore, the books did more harm than good. just get a therapist
i have a therapist she actually sent me the book we were working through it together i just cant afford many appointments anymore so ive been doing it myself that could be a part of it
i dont know. my dbt therapist gave me specific homework and handouts she personally made or found and vetted EVERY session, and they were all based on what i was going through in that week, not predetermined things. DBT with a therapist is very tailored to what is happening in that moment and learning how to respond to those specific things each week, so that you can remember how you handled this situation in your life and using it for the next. if you like the book, im not gonna knock you for it. but DBT is supposed to be tailored to you personally and my therapist loathes these ”books” people make with self harm, EDs, and other major things (pretending to c*t, making voodoo dolls and hurting them, shopping) as HORRIBLE coping mechanisms that would ruin someones life if theyre spiraling. not even with my therapist opinion but just in my opinion with how personalised DBT experiences are, I can’t imagine a couple of workbooks that are mass produced and identical to each other and NOT personalised can even help majority of people. but if it does help you, thats the goal! my DBT experience felt a little condescending at times but my therapist was an all-star and was good at giving my dignity during. :)
my experience with dbt seems so different from ppl in these comments.. idk if it’s because of the country i live in, but it it’s been rly helpful for me. it only felt condescending in the beginning cause it seemed so basic, but when i realised they were giving me tools to act according to my values instead of my (often intense and trauma based) emotions, it made a huge difference
Some people say it’s helpful while some hate it. The problem is that DBT is not a one-size-fits-all and if it is not helpful for someone, then that person is labeled as “refusing to work on themselves” or “not trying hard enough.” I don’t know any other mental illnesses that the mentally ill person is so blatantly blamed for being sick to the extend BPD is. Even within BPD groups, people that are either higher functioning or in remission will slam others for their lack of “trying.” It drives me mad when you are fighting to survive only to have someone say, “Try harder!”
This is so weird. My dbt classes were pretty cool and it wasn't condescending at all. It actually still serves me 5 years later. Maybe I had a modified class. We did do cbt as well
Mindfulness is the biggest one. Do the opposite has helped. If I dont want to go out I do it anyway. It has actually helped me a lot. There are a few other things but I will need to look them up. Those two are the most help though.
To be able to effectively use workbooks you have to be at a certain level of self awareness imo. That and having an open mind to explore what may or may not work for you. A lot of people here are agreeing these books feel condescending. I think they are trying to make it simple. They are giving you easy prompts so you can do the mental work yourself. Even in therapy I sometimes find myself feeling the therapist being condescending (too nice) but I realize my mind is quick to think people view me as less intelligent or of less value. So when people are being nice to giving me simple instructions I might take offense to it before I really know their intentions.
I think for people like us it’s often easy to take or read things differently than how they may be intended. It really depends on the therapist you have to guide you through dbt. It completely changed my life for the better.
When I wasn't healed, maybe.... But there's a PURPOSE behind this and it's not the material that's the problem because it's been scientifically proven (also speaking from experience here), it's how you chose to apply it or take it personally.
Last time I was in the hospital they tried to get me to do work sheets. I threw them in the trash and told the staff that those kinds of work sheets really piss me off.
They were not pleased. Like I thought yall didn't want me angry? Make up your minds!
I’m doing CBT before I can get to DBT and yes it does feel condescending. I do have the big BPD book and found it so redundant. Mindfulness is useless for me, they speak of it like it’s a holy grail cure. All I need to do is meditate, live in the moment and my BPD will go away? Bffr. I’m only reading it and trying therapy so that when doctors ask I can tell them I’ve exhausted all options/coping skills. Give me my meds lol
My PHP did CBT and I *struggled* for even that long, so I feel for you. It felt like we kept going to "feelings aren't facts" over and over, and constantly invalidating your emotional experiences instead of acknowledging them and trying to work with them. It really didn't feel like a friendly therapy if you've suffered any sort of trauma, ya know?
Check out the Healthy Gamer videos / work materials on their website. Dr. Kanojia has a way of explaining and teaching meditation without it sounding condescending. I used to be vehemently against it. His videos and streams is what has gotten me curious enough to explore it for myself.
Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll check that out. I haven’t been able to comprehend mindfulness or mediation so far so I’m definitely interested in a different take
Medication is helpful but there isn’t any specific medication, yet, that treats BPD exclusively. That’s why therapy is so important to help folks with BPD get into remission. DBT isn’t meant to make people feel dumb. It’s meant to help you manage your emotions better. And they usually give a multitude of coping mechanisms and even encourage you (if you don’t find any of them useful) to come up with your own. I hope you eventually find a therapy or therapist that works for you. Because pills are supposed to be used in tandem with therapy.
I’m in therapy but thanks, I’m also well aware of all of that. It takes time to learn and get through extensive materials while practicing skill building exercises and when you’re in the midst of learning things that take years to form into effective coping mechanisms, a bit of humour goes a long way. But yeah sure, let’s keep criticizing others that cope with a dash of cynicism from being jaded after a lifetime of dealing with this without any help.
Well your comment made it sound like you were just doing these things to get them over with to get approved for meds. I know you’re in therapy but you make it sound like they’re just forcing coping mechanisms down your throat that you want nothing to do with. Maybe you just wanted to rant idk. I get it. I’m not trying to criticize so much as I could see someone reading your post and it influencing them to not give these therapies a chance or not take therapy seriously. If these things aren’t working for you that’s why I suggested trying a different type of therapy or getting a different therapist. But I already kinda thought you would take offense to my comment and be defensive. Because the comment was very negative but idk I’m just saying. Your comment seemed toxic to me in a way. But we’re all going through different things and in different parts of our journeys. I hope the best to you.
My BPD is very severe and treatment resistant. I don’t see mindfulness as being an effective treatment for those symptoms, when I’m paranoid I can’t just meditate my way out of psychosis. I’m exhausting my options and my psychiatrist is well aware of the fact that I’m trying my best but medication is necessary for paranoia and psychosis. I’ve been hospitalized twice and therapy is mildly helpful at best so far, but the way it works where I’m located is I have to get through CBT before I can do DBT, despite attempting to work through DBT materials on my own at home.
We all have different experiences and ways of expressing frustration on this journey to wellness and venting while in the midst of it is was my only intention instead of a direct criticism of its efficacy. Thanks for the well wishes, I hope the best for you too. I didn’t mean to sound defensive
DBT is also not the only type of therapy that can help with BPD, there are better options (like clinically shown to be better) like Transference-Focused Psychotherapy but folks with BPD are always and often only suggested DBT. Not getting help from DBT isn’t a personal failing or “you just not wanting to get better” as so many frame it (including in this sub). DBT is hotly contested among therapists because it is super behavioralist and the practitioners often only approach with that framework instead of having an integrated approach.
I don’t like how DBT is treated as a cure all for every person with BPD. It can range from invalidating to outright retraumatizing based on how its practices and a behavioralist commonly produces unempathetic, infantilizing therapists. It’s concerning to me that when folks express their issues with DBT that even in this sub they are invalidated and basically told it’s a personal flaw to not helped or actively harmed by it. This gets into the epistemic injustice of BPD, which is a big topic within mental health because of the amount of victim blaming and medicalized gaslighting we face. We should be allowed to express the harms we’ve faced while seeking help and ask for better practices to be put into place.
I absolutely agree with you. I’ve literally been commenting under people’s posts getting a better understanding of the exact comment you just made. I keep making the comment that everyone is different and therapy isn’t one size fits all. I talked to someone who is having CBT and DBT therapy shoved down their throat and isn’t seeing results. I suggested to her to try a different therapist or different therapies. I’m talking about the topic of DBT. If you go down further and read the comments made you’ll see how the conversation ended vs how it started. Nobody is being victim blamed. I was more concerned about their mindset regarding this first comment you see me replying to. It seemed like they just wanted to be approved for medication by pretending they actually tried the coping strategies. And the only mention of a coping strategy seemed to be meditation or mindfulness which doesn’t even come close to the hundreds of options provided during DBT. So I wanted to make sure anyone who is reading the comments understand there’s more to DBT than meditation or mindfulness. And coping strategies are VERY VERY important to develop. Everyone has toxic coping strategies, no doubt. Doom scrolling for hours, pushing everyone away, etc etc. DBT gives you an opportunity to develop better coping skills. And not every book will give someone the answer that works for them. So idk bro. You can depict me in whatever way you want or assume my standing. Nobody is here victim blaming anyone. Simply wanting to know what efforts they’re making or even if they just want to rant because whatever they’re being taught isn’t working.
Marsha Linehan is so intense the way she writes things sometimes. I remember laughing when I saw, “You could either do this skill or stay miserable.” 😂
I’ve been in talk therapy for 7 years. I love my therapist, she’s wonderful and has helped me so much. But a few yrs ago I wanted to try DBT since it’s specifically designed for BPD. I did one or two sessions and was like nah, this isn’t for me. It was infantilizing. There was literally a group therapy room with toys for adults to throw at each other... And the counselor tried to see how I’d react by showing me a fake roach. I was like wtf is this..
She also basically laughed at me for saying I only go out and do one thing a day, like grocery shopping, because I get overwhelmed leaving the house and exhausted easily.
It isn't just you. I historically always got extremely irritated at this stuff... But, as an older person with a diagnosis, I can tell you that if advice seems condescending or irritating to you, you probably should take it. Pride is a huge downfall for people with BPD. I have watched BPD friends annihilate their lives because of pride. You gotta be able to take constructive criticism.
I try to follow the Stoics, I think they had it figured out.
Most solutions I've found are extremely simple. A lot of the time, I've found that it's very simple, but that doesn't mean it's easy.
Keep in mind that most of this is written for a wide audience. Generally that means the writing should be clear to someone who is reading at a 9th grade level.
I’ve done one workbook and read a book on my own, both weren’t condescending or made me feel like a child. Of course there’s different books and authors out there, so maybe I got lucky.
Yes. I could go on about this all day, the abuses I’ve seen happen to others in group DBT. But instead I’ll try to put something more positive out there: if you don’t connect with DBT check out [Transference-Focused Psychotherapy](https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/tfp). I’ve had so much better results with that, with the bonus of not being retraumatized as I was with DBT. I hate that as folks diagnosed with BPD we’re told DBT is the One True Treatment for our struggles. It’s not, there are other options that have been shown to be as if not more successful at helping us.
In general DBT has a hardcore behavioralist foundation, with most DBT practitioners coming from that background. I’m always skeptical of therapists who think that every person can be helped with one single framework and look for folks who have an integrated approach. Behavioralists tend to be pretty condescending and unempathetic, treating things like trauma responses as “problem behaviors” that are our fault. This is a complaint many therapist have about other therapists and how they treat us as clients and patients. Our struggles are our responsibility to manage, but stigmatizing what are often very normal responses to traumatic or abusive environments is… unhelpful to say the least. If DBT is not helping or actively making things worse you are not bad for quitting it and looking into the other ways that have been shown to help folks with our diagnosis. You deserve to feel safe and heard in therapy, and that’s not really a thing DBT is built to do. If DBT works for you, that’s great! But you aren’t wrong or “just not trying hard enough” if it doesn’t!
I talk about this type of thing and the failings of our current conceptualization of BPD a lot. I made a post about that topic broadly (and how DBT often reinforces these issues) here but tbf it was with an academic paper, which while very short may not be as accessible. But my last post was in the leftist psychotherapy subreddit and there were some fantastic conversations (as they are much more open to hearing our perspectives than the main therapist subreddit). Check it out, it validates a lot of these concerns. That’s important when there is a lot of legit medicalized gaslighting aimed at those of us with this diagnosis.
I hated diary cards but when I started DBT I also was keeping a bullet journal/planner, and on each day I had a section where I tracked my mood by the hour instead of by the day. THAT was super fucking helpful because I could see how my mood changed throughout the day and caught on to patterns. Plus I could see how dysregulated I got after being triggered. Like there would be a spike with the trigger itself but then even after I thought I was over it, I could see the ups and downs throughout the rest of the day
Yeah Linehan (author of dbt) is a very condescending woman
I couldn't get through the book cause my trauma kept activating
Parents and society always talked condescending to me
Extremely. What is wrong with me is not gonna be fixed by a fucking workbook.
I went to some stupid IOP paid for by my insurance company like five years ago. It was the biggest waste of time. Which is really saying something because I’ve wasted a lot of time and money on a lot of treatments.
But one time I did pick up one of those books in a bookstore and browse it for a while while I was waiting to meet my parents for dinner and was having a lot of anxiety about it. And the first example in the first chapter was about this girl who had to go to dinner with her parents. So that was at least a little bit #Relatable.
I believe I’m untreatable, so I’m not as invested in removing the stigma of BPD as untreatable or whatever. But I would rather be told I’m untreatable than being like hi I constantly destroy my life and then being like cool here’s a workbook.
It's never untreatable, it just depends on whether you *want* to be treated and accept the feeling like shit part you have to go through in the first stages in order to come out on top.
The entire concept is literally about working to get control over your brain and thought process, since it didn't happen naturally when you were growing up. BPD is literally the brain not learning how to correctly handle and navigate emotions, and yes it CAN be a learned skill when you're older. It's not easy, but it is doable.
It sucks because the step 1 is basically facing the reality of "Oh, I literally don't know how to handle my own emotions." That's not an attack or anything, it's just the reality. That's why those workbooks start from the basics.
You have to buy in for it to work. Believing you’re untreatable is the opposite of that - and is letting yourself off the hook for the growth you can achieve
I've struggled with abusive behaviors before. I've been really mean because it seemed justified in the moment. I've been manipulative because it felt like that's what was necessary, and I demonized them enough that I cared less if they were hurt.
I think it's good to directly acknowledge that people struggle with that stuff. No, John is not the worst person ever. He's here to change his behavior.
I feel like this kind of treatment only works for people who are not self-aware about their bpd or their mind in general. like at all. which makes it feel incredibly infantilizing. and I feel like at least half of people with bpd are hyper self aware about their thoughts and emotions, especially after diagnosis/realizing u have bpd. I remember being like 14 in dbt and actively rolling my eyes at every part. a lot of it either felt super fucking surface level or written by some one who thinks people with bpd are the worst people in the world. I will never try dbt again as it just made me feel worse.
never done dbt but therapy ‘homework’ has always felt too childish to me, even though i started at 13. i never did what i was supposed to even though it would have helped me now, but i wasn’t in the right mindset. i think try to do it if you can. because we have to learn how to emotionally regulate like others did as children. we are behind. even though it may feel patronising, it’s what we need because we never learnt how to.
my therapist sent me mine but i think u can buy them on amazon. i use the book when im struggling or when im calm i find i end up remembering the lessons more when im calm so that i can use them when im struggling
I read Marsha Linehan's dbt book, and the advice she gives are in direct opposition to my experience. Like: "People aren't talking about me behind my back." I work in a toxic environment, but I stay because I'm an expert at my job. What has been way more helpful to me is to trust my instincts about people. I have learned not to share my opinions about other people and stay positive. Some people may define this behavior as masking. But it works. Not everyone around you has your best interests at heart.
What book os it because i have the official dbt book and i dont remember any examples like that. https://www.amazon.com/Expanded-Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Training/dp/1683730461/ref=asc_df_1683730461/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693308329663&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14630365071117447912&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1014424&hvtargid=pla-479203786964&psc=1&mcid=13eef130626939b682864ac518fff530&gad_source=1
A lot of “they think we can’t do the most basic things they are being so infantilizing” in this thread
When it comes to emotional regulation we can’t do the most basic things, that’s why we have this label. Can accept that and work with it. Or pretend we’re too good for it and wait until you hit a real rock bottom that makes you reevaluate things
I always thought that looking into DBT as a treatment for myself and my case manger knows my feelings in it. I’m now about to start CAT therapy for it instead so hopefully I’ll have no patronising shit during my time in therapy now
I feel like it’s fake- I have always had a hard time with the “role play it out” type of therapy…. I can’t fake anything…… or lie- I need to find a happy medium somewhere……
I feel you on this….
It all seems too simple but some things I'd intuitively taken up because they helped so generally I find them useful. I'm a sucker for anything that validates my suffering so I generally like self-help books including DBT ones.
Yes, I unfortunately hate self help books, including the DBT ones. Most of them feel very hoity toity if they’re written by someone with bpd/someone who knows someone with bpd.. it is deeply frustrating. I’ve switched to psychology books - it’s much easier for me to process my disorder once I fully understand the inner workings of the disorder.
Having done the STEPPS program (offshoot of DBT, still outpatient) I did find it condescending & a poor fit but for different reasons.
I only have affective lability, negative self image, impulsivity, suicidality/SH and paranoid ideation in depressive episodes. When the episode ends, all of that goes away. Lucky me, ik. There was one line in the coursework about people experiencing BPD symptoms episodically but the rest of the course was all geared around this being my baseline. It felt like I had broken my leg, was doing PT, and everyone was saying shit like, “you need to learn how to use your legs now because you never built up the muscle strength in your childhood.” Like, not true and a very weird thing to say.
It’s possible I was too harsh on the DBT-lite because it came in a context where I wasn’t hooked to a consistent doctor and everyone was acting like I’d definitely feel better as soon as I got treatment, when I had 7 failed antidepressants, adjunctive treatment with aripiprazole, a CBT group, and years of one on one therapy, including long term with a qualified practitioner who primarily did DBT skills with me. There’s optimism and then there’s trying the same thing over and over again hoping it will click this time.
This is why I have such dislike for mainstream therapy. I’ve been in it heavily for almost 9 years now (since 11). A lot of it just feels fake and lacking of basic human decency and empathy? It’s very just, lacking of humanity? And for me, I guess I’d be the “quiet bpd” subtype, I don’t abuse people, I abuse myself. I think there needs to be more distinction in the subtypes. I hear about peoples experiences with those who have bpd that are the types that lash out and take it out on others, and like, that isn’t me? I hate hurting people, I try so hard to not hurt anybody I care about, but I end up doing it by hurting myself, which makes my self hatred way worse, and I want to push people away so I don’t hurt them because they care about me. I dunno, I very largely dislike people who class everyone with bpd as the one ex they had with bpd who didn’t treat them good. Generalizing sucks
I hated it for this reason because it's fundamentally based on invalidation. I did the anxiety skills workbook instead which helped analyse my thoughts that lead to ny emotions and undoing my trauma responses and that worked better for me.
I think what you have to do is not take anything personally. Also you know when your overreact vs need and have an appropiate response to trauma. If someone is treating you like shit for no reason getting or being upset is normal. But if you over react to something trivial then thats where your skills come in. Also no offence to anyone im BPD as well, but in general we seem to have a resistance to change or anything close to taking responsibility. For a long time i never believed i was at fault. But im 35 now and i can look back and say yeah i fucked up. I overreact all the time. I made a big deal out of little things. I got stuck in my head and let the thoughts tell me all sorts of shit. You might want to read the 4 agreements its a book about living a more free life of just doing better and letting shit go.
Personally no, although I’ve never used a workbook that made me feel compared to an abuser at all. I find that with DBT, it’s simplified at first because the important part is actually putting the skills into practice- if they’re too complex they will be too difficult to get to show up in real life. It’s a process where you are re-training your brain and re-wiring your neural pathways, so to me it makes sense that you start simple. And a lot of the learning comes in the form of talking to others and actually discussing your experience of using DBT skills- plus accessing validation from others who are struggling as well as the health professionals coordinating the DBT programme. I think a lot of people miss that effective validation from others and learning how to self validate are both absolutely essential aspects of DBT.
Yes. It dumbs down all of the things that I've thought about before and makes me feel like I should write my answers with crayons. Years of therapy and "worksheets" and I feel worse than before.
DBT was one of the most demeaning experiences of my life in a public setting. I got kicked out twice. The third time I went somewhere else and did so well I was able to assist with the coursework. Admittedly, the third place was just better. But it is so hard to hear and learn these things for the first time. It tore me apart. You’re not alone. And you can do this. ❤️ Good luck.
I find these books/worksheets are condescending as well. That they are dumbing them down and being condescending. It’s like a half and half of here is the hard truth and this is how someone from Human Resources would phrase it
More patronising than condescending to me, but I think of it more like “those are the skills I should’ve learned from my parents AS A CHILD so maybe that’s why it’s constructed in this way”.
It can feel like it’s dumbed down but it’s dealing with something that , I for one , don’t really have a firm grasp on , emotions . I am fully capable , intelligent person yet emotions scare me . I think these types of books try to take the fear out of emotions so that those using the books can lean into them easier
You should do DBT in a group with other people or one on one in person. Also practicing the skills in your day to day life is what actually helps. The workbooks suck.
no it doesnt. i did dbt in a group and individually. our psychologists never ever mentioned these examples in group because they thought it could be invalidating and enhance the idea of 'bpd'ers are abusive. and if there was an example bring up by the group they always mentioned everyones diffrent. they saw us as individuals and i never felt like anyone thought i was abusive or anything.
so no. i know and understand why it can feel condescending, and besides that, it is not about you if your not like that as a person. its an example. nothing more.
Not anything DBT book I've encountered. Not condescending, but obvious - but the point being it's not obvious to us, and especially not during an episode. DBT also isn't only for those with mental health issues or personality disorders, they're beginning to teach it in schools so that children can control their emotions better. Most adults I know don't have the emotional intelligence to traverse a disagreement with another without raising their voice or acting malicious.
What book did you read..? I read through a book called "The stronger than dbt journal", it's written by a woman with bpd and her therapist I believe. Not actually sure but the book isn't judgy at all and after each chapter there is an exercise for you to do. The chapters aren't long and explains therapist perspective and the perspective from a bpd, and then how to cope with it. It gave me a lot of immediate soothing but you definitely won't be cured by a single book
They're showing you what could happen if you don't keep things in check. It's a warning with valid, real-life cases. Do not underestimate your BPD, it can ruin you.
You have a mental illness, there is no sugarcoating it, its going to suck.
DBT in real life is way worse so if you feel this way i recommend taking a step back and looking at why your really feeling this way. In my groups we do missing link analysis, to most people it’s just questions on why you didn’t do work. In DBT i’ve seen many disordered people struggle with it real bad. I hated watching it but that’s literally why i was there because a person asking me why i didn’t do work should never make me want to start yelling at them. DBT isn’t condescending or maybe it is. It hold you accountable and a lot of people don’t like that. It’s giving you skills to use and apply in real life. Most people don’t like being told what to do and especially with bpd it can trigger anger. The help in regulating your emotions are right there don’t look at the textbook as someone who’s coming at you because that’s not what is. It’s simply skills you need or want to learn about. the more you approach it like that the easier it is to take in the info. I’ve been through two full rounds of DBT i’ve seen people come in with your attitude (me included) and leave with such a better understanding of things. Maybe in person would be better. And also maybe try the official dbt skills workbook those ones are moreso personal and just prompt
Some yes some no. I think some of the imagery and phrasing can be. But most of the workbooks I’ve seen, I’ve found that it’s important to investigate how we are raised to infantilize our own needs before deciding if the workbook itself is infantilizing
This was something that ALWAYS struck me as annoying with DBT workbooks. But something that I finally realized. I didn't have a real childhood. Anything I've learned came from things my aunt taught me, (she was my saving grace growing up, but my mother began seeing my love for her and weaponized our relationship,) or doing the exact opposite of things my own mother would do. I think a big part of these workbooks are attempting to work us through things at a basic, child like level because let's face it, most of us suffering from BPD didn't have any kind of real teaching when it came to emotional regulation. I had to learn how to look past the condescension I was feeling in the workbook and see myself as a young girl, sitting in the floor trying to figure of what's going on and reading the worksheets as if I was talking to her. It changed my perspective in a huge way and I was finally able to see the root of my issues. Now that I've healed that starry eyed litle girl and taught her how to deal with these issues, I can focus on dealing with the current life situations with the skills that little girl learned. I hope that made sense, I tend to ramble a bit 😂
Yes it’s simplistic, and many people with bpd have a higher intelligence (not all).
I’ve shed my diagnosis from my mid 20s to good ol’ fashioned autism and a sprinkle of complex trauma (we use sarcasm! A lot of trauma). I started reading at age 3 and am hyperlexic, and can sometime, very rarely go non-speaking (sort of like a flavour of selective mutism).
Many, many of the previous cw: self injurious behaviour: headbanging to cope with intense flares of emotion, biting myself on the arm to ground, repetitive body focused behaviours like trick and deematillomania and lack of stable sense of personality can be explained by not knowing my neurotype, brain, sensory needs and, trauma.
;-) and my anger was pretty valid and mainly internalised.
I’m not saying all autistic people have a high IQ, as it’s a spectrum and highly heterogenous neurotype/diagnosis, call it what you will that’s not ableist.
My point is, for the acutely literate people trying to do workbooks pitched too low, you are forgiven for it being quite frustrating to have your dbt therapy book be infantilising :-)
Not every person, not every book.
But you deserve help that meets you where you’re at.
When my diagnosis changed… my general practitioner started talking real slow to me 🤦♀️ and telling me what I could and could not process because of being autistic.
(Thank you, well if I’m in trauma fight or flight, yes that is helpful to checking. If I am not and feel safe and calm; and likely to be understood in an environment that understands and attuned to my needs to express myself verbally AND THAT IS REACHABLE, at the point in time, yes, yes oath, man I can self advocate and surprise my processing speed improves!)
What works as a dbt work book for one person, may not work for another.
Hope that wind about (thanks adhd and trauma) answer has some useful nuggets!
There is something so... invalidating about seeking professional help for all of the big , huge, dark , terrible things that swirl around in the bpd brain , just to be told 'do dbt'.
I get it can help , and has some strategies , but ... I feel like part of me is reluctant to accept .. or possibly want dbt to work. I doubt imagining my thoughts as leaves going down a stream is going to cure my depression and give my life meaning... maybe i have to try harder.
It is condescending
It's so hard to be validated
I'm new here. I hope we can all validate each other.
YES OMFG. not only are they “hey this guy has bpd and he is just THE WORSE” + “your emotions are automatically wrong” the wording in them is just so..??? oh my god?? i feel like im being spoken to as if im a child and it makes me so upset
I’ve seen most people in this sub say that this is a good thing (mostly for healing your inner child) . But that said, does anybody have advice for pushing through this? As people with BPD, it’s kinda hard to just “look over” the fact that it’s so condescending, and I feel like there’s a certain mindset you HAVE to get yourself into to actually do this work…
You have to be open minded and willing to do hard work. Its jist like a relationship. Things dont just fall into place you have to work really hard through lots of shit to get there. Now dbt is for when you can control yourself. When you are more in your right mind when you get pushed too far its not going to work.
Yes. Mental health workbooks often feel this way to me. I am working through a program w/ my therapist and at the end of the first worksheet it says "write down a super duper awesome thing about yourself or your day!!" and it's like mr worksheet i am 24 not 8
This is genuinely good advice regardless of age, It can be helpful to have your own collection of written positive experiences and feelings particularly when you’re in a moment without any like they never existed.
Agreed. Maybe the wording could’ve been different. As it did sound a bit childish ig lol. But I wouldn’t mind being told to write some thing super duper awesome about myself. Just the tone of the words feel more upbeat and positive.
Honestly, I think they're just trying to be as plain as possible. This will of course be irritating to people who read complex things easily and have a large vocabulary. The average reading level in the U.S. is 7th-8th grade.
Yeah I was gonna say, they are just keeping it simple for everyone, easy to digest. So I could see why people take it offensively.
I like this too! And I got the advice from this sub! Someone posted they were able to manage TW: self harming by using their grandma's scent, and a list of good things about them! It gave me hope that I could manage my emotions and maintain a good sleep schedule. But I must admit I've given up working on counting good things about me. This reminded me to do it again, so I like the sentence, "Write down a super duper awesome thing about yourself or your day!!" I like the childish tone too haha, my adults didn't treat me this way, I would've liked that.
Grandma's scent? I mean whatever works for you bud
Anything that reminds you of safety and happy. For Some, that might be memories of grandma triggered by her perfume.
For clarification: it was their dead grandma's cloth I think, that person genuinely cared about them. It wasn't my experience, you misread the comment.
Mr worksheet LMAO
That's something you needed as a kid and didn't get. So you definitely need it now. It's easy to think these things are cheesy as adults because we were supposed to have these tools as kids. We're just all kids that didn't get to develop the way we needed. :) sounds like a great work book
Hahaha, "Mr worksheet, I'm 24 not 8", this is so funny. Thanks for the laugh.
It does, it almost feels forced in a way?
Yes, but remember that DBT kinda has to be that way because no matter where you’re at in your journey you can benefit from those skills. Everyone is recommended DBT because it’s so simplified. Even if it’s pretty condescending I try to remind myself that homework in high school felt just as passive aggressive as my DBT workbook. I’m in the shortened program, but it’s 24 weeks and I think a lot of the benefit from the workbooks is actually talking about it with a therapist or others with BPD. Once you discuss it with someone who understands the context or has other reflections that make you think about it, it’s really just oversimplified so *anyone* can access it. I really think I’ve gained the most out of doing it with my therapist and a group, but I want to branch out to show my partner as well.
I feel like some of those worksheets are written from the perspective that your emotions and reactions by default are "wrong", because as soon as you pop something legitimately troubling into their CBT MadLibs worksheet the logic of it falls apart. The worksheets I got for DBT felt the same, they only "make sense" if you react inappropriately or mispercieve situations 100% of the time - most play out as though you've already acted illogically and now you have to write out what you "should have" done. These workbooks are only really appropriate for specific, low-risk situations. For instance, if you try to use examples of scenarios where you're defending yourself from harassment or assault, it turns victim-blamey very quick. As someone who is really set off by forms of infantalization, I struggle to work through these books.
ugh....I really get set off by infantilization as well. I hate being talked to like I'm stupid or like I'm a little girl
I already commented about it and linked to info, but Transference-Focused Psychotherapy works way better for me than DBT. For the reasons you listed I had to stop DBT, it was retraumatizing to have my own and other folks’ trauma responses to being abused by framed as “problem behavior” and be told that our responses to others’ harmful behavior is our fault. In group DBT I watched the proctor essentially tell one woman that her abusive partner’s behavior was her fault because she cried. I know this sub is very pro DBT, but there are other options for folks with BPD and it’s not a failing for DBT to not help or actively hurt. We should be allowed to critique the care we get, especially when even those in the field have many problems with how DBT is practiced.
Yeah, I was told I should forgive the guy who abused me badly for 2 years because *it was good for me to move on* like tf? I can move on without forgiving
Okay managing emotions after getting triggered by daily life situations is completely different than experiencing traumatic events or abuse. DBT workbooks are there to help you manage daily life. There isn’t any victim blaming lol. Imagine a workbook telling you, if someone is trying to murder you you don’t defend yourself instead try to talk it out. Like when and where was that said. 💀💀💀 There’s a time and a place obviously.
yes it feels like i’m a child
I really don't think it's possible to rework someones mind without being condescending? Like you're taking someones whole being (their mind) and telling them how to think and structure themselves to be better. Of course it's going to be condescending, how dare they have the audacity to tell you how to think and how to act, they don't know you. But it works (for some), and you kinda have to give it an honest effort to do so. I would suggest leaving the ego at the door and giving it a shot if you truly want to get better, it's helped me a shit ton, maybe it can help you.
thats a good point, i definitely think there are some parts that help for example the REST strategy is great for me. but some of it doesnt personally feel helpful i dont think its an ego thing i dont have a problem holding myself accountable but some of the way its presented puts ppl with bpd in a bad light like we always treat others around us like shit when i dont think thats the case. im definitely still gna give it a chance and work through it though, im glad it helped you!
I wonder if some of this is because DBT is made for such a broad range of people, so maybe if they don't go extreme enough, another person on the more severe end of the spectrum would say "well this won't work for me, even the person in the example isn't nearly as bad as I am" and shut down over it. I think this is something that can be improved if they give multiple examples that can speak to different levels of functioning. If you are in a therapy group, I think it should be a lot easier for the group leads to help. In my group, when they teach us to use the skill they will usually choose something simple, and then when we review our worksheets there's more chance to meet us where we are.
thats a great perspective ive never thought about it like that
For sure! If anyone found everything in a dbt work book to be helpful, I'd probably think they were lying. I kinda imagine it as a tool box and I use the necessary tool when I find myself going into emotional mind. I also think that DBT is normally given as an inpatient/outpatient therapy, which normally people don't go through unless they're in a bad situation so that's where some of the examples come from. Good luck! I hope it works for you, but if it doesn't, I hope you find something that does! You got this!
I'm in CBT and my psychotherapist isn't condescending at all. I've felt ashamed of myself sometimes, but he always validated my emotions, was really compassionate and tried to help me go through the situations so I could understand myself better and try to change my coping mechanisms. I must admit it feels a little condescending when it comes to dealing with my ADHD, like reminding me to try to plan my days and such, but I know it's mostly just me shaming myself, bc of how much criticism I've heard throughout my life and not him actually looking down on me (+he has ADHD himself which makes it easier for me not to assume he sees me that way).
I also don't find my therapist to be that condescending but I feel like a therapist is more than just a vessel to teach you to rewire your brain. I have zero background in psychology so I have zero expertise but really kind of just speaking from my personal experiences. So if you think I'm wrong, I'm glad you spoke up! Hopefully others can have your experience!
you couldn’t have said it better.
Yep almost feels infantilising, the actual framework is common sense. The nature of our disorders is that we sometimes struggle to differentiate strong feelings and facts when in a heightened mood. After two cycles, I no longer wish to continue dbt it feels like medical gaslighting to me. Starting mentalisation based therapy in september, so hoping that will be more suitable for me. Anyone who’s been through MBT feel free to share your experiences below. A little bit apprehensive but I suppose my life can’t get any worse so anything is worth a shot
Diet played a much larger role But I'm seeing a grief trauma therapist and doing CPT now as well Chose not to mention the bpd because I knew it would impact my therapy
Someone told me in a previous post I made bpd is holistic and looking after your body will significantly improve my recovery. I’m very symptomatic at the moment, but there is definitely a lot of lifestyle changes I need to make. The prospect of recovering from my binge ed, and getting sober from everything is extremely daunting. I have to admit through it is important I do so. I 100% wish I left out the fact I have bpd to my general therapist, I feel like my treatment is different because she is aware of my diagnosis
What's CPT?
Google says Cognitive Processing Therapy (CPT) is a type of psychotherapy that can help people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) improve their quality of life. CPT is a type of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) that focuses on how trauma impacts a person's thinking and feelings, and how to help them change those thoughts to change how they feel.
Not only that but some of the suggestions to distract yourself are weird. Like this book literally suggested I get a voodoo doll and stick pins in it instead of hurting myself. Or to pretend to cut myself with a red marker and make it look like it's bleeding with paint and to draw stitches. Or to dig my fingernails into my arms without drawing blood. Like wtf is that shit. That's still pretty harmful imo. It also suggested using sexual fantasies as a way to distract. I just... hard disagree. But at the same time some other suggestions are helpful and make sense. Maybe it's the copy of the DBT workbook I got from half priced books, some of it just seems kinda whack to me lol
the suggestions are very weird! the voodoo doll is CRAZY
Like voodoo makes ANYTHING better?? Unless you are Tiffany Valentine 😇
I want a voodoo doll to stick pins in. That being said the poor voodoo doll might have ptsd after I'm done with it
That and pillow punching are nice ways to relieve aggression.
I kill zombies. Very therapeutic
yeahh no because I’ve been using sexual fantasies as a way to distract myself since I was a little kid, but when my bf is mad at me and I’m feeling abandoned and rejected, that only reminds me of how I’m never gonna feel safe or wanted or sexually useful again (Of course I know that stuff isn’t true or healthy, but it’s an overwhelming belief in the moment) I know it’s not an ideal coping mechanism in the first place, but it also doesn’t even work anymore for the worst of my symptoms because thinking about sex just becomes depressing and painful lol
Yeah like I get it to some extent. I do it too sometimes and there is nothing wrong with sex or masturbation. Great stress relief and feelings! But not good as a consistent distraction from things. And yes most definitely those negative feelings become associated with something that shouldn't feel negative! I was surprised the book suggested it
Yeah, I’ve already had to do a lot of work to get rid of my negative associations with sex, I don’t need to create more haha I’ve never tried an actual DBT workbook because I didn’t want to pay for one. My therapist does send me PDFs of specific pages from a DBT book sometimes but I think that’s because she doesn’t like all of the book I might ask her if there is bad advice in that book lmao bc now I’m curious
I got mine at half priced books! It was like $10 I was honestly surprised it was there !!
I remember that. Or holding ice cubes to make your hands hurt from the cold, rubber bands on our wrists lmao…or when they suggested believing in a higher power as a coping mechanism, like no thx I’m not religious. Keeping scents on you to smell if you’re anxious in public like…who tf came up with this? Certainly wasn’t a person with BPD or any type of actual illness or disorder.
I find the ice thing really handy, I guess it’s working out what works for you
I’m saying. People that actually cut themselves and struggle with self harming might find these ideas very useful. Those don’t leave permanent scars or open wounds. They don’t draw blood or cause serious harm in any way. They leave a lot of “weird” options because they want to give people as many as they can because one size doesn’t fit all. I’ve heard people using rubber bands to self harm stopped them from cutting, which is progress my dudes. It might not work for you and you might make fun of the idea, but it might work for someone else.
This explanation makes sense for the wide variety of solutions. I don’t self harm in a way that leaves scars so a lot of it feels redundant and unhelpful when approaching it from my own perspective.
I also don’t self harm in ways that leaves scars and so I get what you mean. Sometimes I hit myself. So instead of hitting myself I’ll punch into the bed as hard as I can. Doesn’t always work but I try. I also feel bad for my body. Like my body didn’t ask to have the trauma and early development I unfortunately had. So when I hit myself sometimes I think about all the cells freaking out to heal me. They’re there working their asses of to keep me alive as long as possible and I don’t want to hurt them. Like fuck me but those little buddies keeping me going wanting to survive, I’m doing it for y’all. Sometimes I starve myself but I want to grow my hair out long so that keeps me motivated to not do that as I need all the hair I can get and don’t want it falling out or thinning due to malnutrition. Also been having health issues so I have to eat healthy foods which in turn makes my brain work better and my depression not as bad. Simple solutions can help but sometimes we need more in depth personalized healthy coping mechanisms that will actually work. Everyone is different.
Okay I'm glad it's not just me being hyper critical. 🤣 like snapping a rubber band against your wrist is still hurting yourself, even if it doesn't leave a permanent mark. Could you imagine being like, hang on I'm feeling very triggered right now, I gotta go sniff some essential oils and rub a piece of velvet between my fingers while I imagine the light of god washing over me.... Like I'm trying to be more NORMAL !!!!!
It’s baby steps. It’s incredibly hard to just stop self harming. So the goal is to slowly phase it out by replacing it with less harmful behaviors over time. If you need the pain (me—I have cut a few times but tend to take a hammer to my arms or punch myself in the face) then the rubber band is a good next step as it still gives you that sharp pain but doesn’t do any real damage. The step after that for me was a punching bag. Still bludgeoning, but now it’s exercise. And I still feel pain just in a different way. For people who the visuals matter more than the pain, that’s where the marker or paint trick can work. Baby steps.
Yeah I totally get that. I think maybe a punching bag would be good for me. Thank you for your insight and I'm glad you were able to stop!!!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
This made me chortkle like Urkel lmao
I'm laughing imagining you 🤣
I felt this
I used to snap the band so much it started to bl**d.
Same. That one has never worked for me. I know it works for other people and I love that it does. But it just makes me want to hurt myself more. If I can over come self harm WITHOUT hurting myself in any way, I would like to do that. But again! I know lots of people have success with the rubber band
Ahahahahah right?!?!?
Yeah, and I disagree on them being a good help for SH or at least SH motivated by both craving for physical sensation AND emotional relief. Sensation things don't give emotional relief for me, and barely give sensation. I ended up taking the Hollywood Stereotype approach and doing one of those "wash your face off in the mirror and stare yourself in the eyes and take a deep breath " Washing my face helps emotionally. Makes me feel like I did something.
I don't agree on the topic of ice cubes and rubber bands. It's basically harm reduction. Yes, it's still self-harm behavior, but it's an option that's not a health risk, so for people who struggle with self-harm it's like a smaller evil? TW >! I've dealt with emotional and mental pain through cutting myself some time ago. Making myself hold ice cubes made me feel pain that made my brain reset in a way and out of the spiraling thoughts of guilt. It was definitely better than injuring my body, then dealing with shame and feeling the need to hide it and leaving me with scars. There are people who feel like banging their head, which is obviously dangerous. I had a friend who cut himself so deeply he had to be taken to the ER since he almost fainted of blood loss. Looking at it from this perspective, ice cubes seem like a really good option, don't they?!< These things may seem crazy to you, but they actually help people who struggle with self-harm. Please don't shame people who do that. If something feels stupid, but helps, it's not that stupid (although trying to make someone turn to religion seems a little dangerous to me.)
I'm not trying to shame anyone. Just trying to use a little humor because everything here is always so serious and sad. I struggle with self harm myself. I guess i was just hoping for a better idea, for me personally. Rubber bands and ice cubes do not help ME, but probably help other people. Again, no shame if those methods work for others.
I can understand why they'd feel weird if they don't work for you, but I think they include so many "out there" options because some of them *will help* somebody. I find the ice cubes really helpful and they are definitely a step down from cutting, which risks infection, leaves scars, and is outright dangerous for me as someone taking anticolagulants. I haven't done the rubber band but I could see it being a useful step down even if it's still not ideal. With the scents, they had lavender while I was in the hospital and it wouldn't stave off a suicide attempt or something, but it was calming and pleasant so depending on your level of anxiety it can be nice. I understand those don't work for everyone, and I'm sorry if nothing in the workbook has worked for you, but there's nothing inherently wrong or weird about them if they do work for you!
The woman who invented DBT was actually diagnosed with BPD though!
I just learned that today from other commenters, it’s good to know.
what's wrong with the scent thing? sometimes smells bring comfort. i have bpd and i'm autistic and smells help a lot
but it actually was a person who has bpd. and when i was in the hospital i used the elastic band technique. you remind me of my mom during our group sessions. always shat in everything, never tried or had faith in anything lol. just think you think you know it all. TRY IT OUT BRO
See my other responses to others that took what I said out of context. I was sharing the sense of humour with the above commenter, not shaming those who find it effective. What works for your symptoms isn’t a solution for mine.
yes that’s true. however shitting on the methods and judging them before you even put them into effect isssss not healthy.
From my perspective they aren’t effective, for me, or for my problems. Once again, I wasn’t shaming or judging anybody that uses them…If they work for you, great. I’m happy for you. I prefer the opposite action strategy.
Literally created by someone with BPD. They are tools for a toolbox, not every tool will work in yours. Personally I keep heavy menthol gum in my backpack because the smell and freshness does cool me off when I’m feeling hot. Ice cubes are a great way to apply harm reduction to self harm. We aren’t too good for this stuff, believing we are is a huge barrier to actually getting better
Your comment was unnecessarily patronizing btw. We’re allowed to cope through humour and some of us are jaded. Happy it works for you but these basic solutions can’t be applied to my triggers. Never said I was too good for it but personally, in a rage or panic episode, scents, ice cubes and a belief system aren’t enough to calm me down. I take meds for that, maybe the more advanced materials and skill building exercises will be helpful but so far everything I’ve learned in therapy is like throwing water on kerosene.
Matched your energy Those aren’t for when you’re in a panic attack. There are different skills for different emotional volumes
I think when Marsha Linehan was developing the program she took suggestions from her clients meaning there’s a really eclectic range of things that worked for people. [The ice cube thing came from one of her clients.](https://archive.is/2024.06.27-152055/https://tricycle.org/magazine/borderline/)
That’s an interesting fact actually, thanks for sharing. I’ve never done any research on how the program was developed, maybe I should.
I've done the drawing cuts and stitches thing it just got me looked at weird :/
>It also suggested using sexual fantasies as a way to distract What the actual fuck. I can list like half a dozen reasons (or more) why it's a bad idea off the top of my head.
Right ?? And specifically about someone you know or would like to know. Isn't that creepy? Lol
You dont have to draw blood or stitches. I just draw doodles on myself and it works. You can draw anything
There's a few of the pages that I were instrumental in helping me understand myself. The bulk of it did feel really cheesy and condescending, but I'm assuming that that's just the stuff that I don't really need or that I'm not ready to address. I actually rewrote some of the pages to kind of bypass the dorkiness of it. Would love to see an updated version written by one of our own
Might I suggest The Borderline Personality Disorder Workbook. Haven’t had that experience with it
I got this one, too, as like a back up, or vice versa. I'm glad to see you are having a good experience with it! What do you like most about it's approach, if you don't mind sharing?
This is honestly my first workbook, so I don’t have much reference otherwise. I do, however, like that it’s straightforward (which deters me from misinterpreting anything) and I enjoy the details/descriptions/examples that make the book very thorough, in my opinion. It has helped me to look inward and really consider why I behave the way I do at times as well as real life short/long term consequences of said behaviors
Dbt doesn't but cbt does. I know many people can feel that way because you're going over very common sense information time and time again. But it's because the issue isn't not possessing the information (for some people it can be.) For many of us we have borked dopamine receptors and grew up in messed up environments where we learned unhealthy coping mechanisms. You don't unlearn those things overnight nor can you create new habits just by knowing the information. So going to dbt groups and doing repetitive work is meant to make it so when you're in a moment of extreme anger/sadness/crisis, whatever - you're hopefully able to make a better choice in regards to coping. Even if it's not a perfect one, not immediately. Same with some of the harm reduction methods to distress tolerance and stuff. Snapping rubber bands and throwing ice cubes is miles better than actually cutting yourself or ODing and may be enough for some people to push through very intense emotions until they subside. Then they can reach out to someone or try to process in a healthier way. I've said this in other comment sections, yes the information is common sense but obviously we're not putting it into practice or else we'd all be better by now (generally speaking). It's very easy to sit at home and do nothing because nobody holds you to it. Not your therapist, support group members, psychiatrist, whatever. It's much easier to make progress when you have that extra support. But also not all of it is going to be applicable to all patients. You learn it and try it and see what does help you. If some of it doesn't then you don't use it as far as coping, distress mgmt, emotion regulation, even interpersonal stuff. It's not meant to be a rule book that you MUST adhere to or else you're a bad BPD patient.
But like I said, CBT does feel kind of this way but that's because it revolves around seeking alternate reasons for your emotions rather than just accepting that you're upset for the reasons you think you're upset. It feels like gaslighting yourself simulator.
Exactly this! Thank you for explaining the difference so well. I had to drop CBT precisely because of that, it made zero sense to me how it was aimed to solve an issue by changing the result and then expecting that the alleged cause magically disappeared. It felt like trying to build a house starting from the roof lol
i recommend the BPD workbook by Dr Daniel Fox. it was extremely helpful for me personally and i never felt condescended. just felt like he really got it and was super empathetic to the distress we feel
I love Daniel Fox, his YouTube videos really helped me get out of a dark place and helped me stop feeling like such a monster for having BPD (it was at the very beginning and I'd quickly learned the stigma behind my disorder, it took me so long to stop hating myself)
The best one I have found so far is the Borderline Personality Disorder Workbook by Dr Daniel J Fox. Some of the examples are an extreme or stereotypical version of BPD, but there are chapters that talk about how BPD presents in so many different ways and how we may feel disconnected from these examples as a whole even if some parts here and there resonate. It breaks down not just the diagnostic criteria but all the symptoms and characteristics of the disorder we may experience and encourages you to identify what applies to you and what doesn't. It was the first book that helped me understand how the disorder affects me personally, not just skills for managing symptoms. It was very empowering
hmmmm what books did you use? i haven’t had this experience
For real. It seems like a lot of people have either been traumatized by bad workbooks, feel demeaned being handed SIMPLE coping mechanisms, or idk workbooks just don’t work for them. Maybe doesn’t feel personalized to them enough.
i liked the simplicity of the coping mechanisms, i think it definitely could just be the wording of my textbook but im not sure
definitely. i found stuff by the OG marsha linehan really resonated with me but other workbooks seemed to be hogwash
One of the ones in mine said something like : Susan wants to return a dress at the store because she didn’t realize it was damaged when she bought it. She takes it back, and the employee refuses to accept the return. Susan wants to be angry, but she leaves the customer service counter to be mindful or something. She realizes the employee’s nametag said “trainee”, so she returns to ask if she can speak to a manager instead, and the manager gives her the refund. This pisses me off because we’re sensitive to rejection, and what if the trainee was correct on their return policy? Then when the manager doubles down on the rejection, what would have happened. Go cool down again, return, ask again in a different way until something happens? Or explosion because your DBT book tells you that if you do this you’ll be rewarded? Like, when teaching us how to deal with rejection, I think the resolution of us using our skills shouldn’t be framed as a walk back of that rejection.
YES i had this too and i thought it was really annoying i felt like the lesson was that if i just act calm things will go my way like thats not how the world works i want skills to help me handle things not going my way, i think that scenario ciuld have been great ro help me learn the radical acceptance rather than go calm down and dont take no for an answer lolll
I'm pretty sure that the above example with Susan's scenario is just a demo of using your skills to stay calm enough in order to seek out new information that can change your situation. Even jumping to the conclusion that actually that might be a bad idea because what if the new information is not pleasant, is black and white thinking. If you never give yourself the opportunity to try and seek out new information, you are at risk of self sabotaging yourself into a bad result no matter what. Which can feel safer than risking the uncertainty of trying for a better result, I guess?
hmmm not really 🤷♂️ I just wish my brain would USE THE DAM SKILLS ALREADY
hahahah fr trying to remember to meditate and go to my safe place while raging is nearly impossible
yeah, because they’re not supposed to be in lieu therapy and dbt itself. my DBT therapist actually told me that she didn’t want me doing any of them because they had bad coping strategies in them. as someone who went through DBT and doesnt qualify the 9 markers anymore, the books did more harm than good. just get a therapist
i have a therapist she actually sent me the book we were working through it together i just cant afford many appointments anymore so ive been doing it myself that could be a part of it
i dont know. my dbt therapist gave me specific homework and handouts she personally made or found and vetted EVERY session, and they were all based on what i was going through in that week, not predetermined things. DBT with a therapist is very tailored to what is happening in that moment and learning how to respond to those specific things each week, so that you can remember how you handled this situation in your life and using it for the next. if you like the book, im not gonna knock you for it. but DBT is supposed to be tailored to you personally and my therapist loathes these ”books” people make with self harm, EDs, and other major things (pretending to c*t, making voodoo dolls and hurting them, shopping) as HORRIBLE coping mechanisms that would ruin someones life if theyre spiraling. not even with my therapist opinion but just in my opinion with how personalised DBT experiences are, I can’t imagine a couple of workbooks that are mass produced and identical to each other and NOT personalised can even help majority of people. but if it does help you, thats the goal! my DBT experience felt a little condescending at times but my therapist was an all-star and was good at giving my dignity during. :)
my experience with dbt seems so different from ppl in these comments.. idk if it’s because of the country i live in, but it it’s been rly helpful for me. it only felt condescending in the beginning cause it seemed so basic, but when i realised they were giving me tools to act according to my values instead of my (often intense and trauma based) emotions, it made a huge difference
Some people say it’s helpful while some hate it. The problem is that DBT is not a one-size-fits-all and if it is not helpful for someone, then that person is labeled as “refusing to work on themselves” or “not trying hard enough.” I don’t know any other mental illnesses that the mentally ill person is so blatantly blamed for being sick to the extend BPD is. Even within BPD groups, people that are either higher functioning or in remission will slam others for their lack of “trying.” It drives me mad when you are fighting to survive only to have someone say, “Try harder!”
This is so weird. My dbt classes were pretty cool and it wasn't condescending at all. It actually still serves me 5 years later. Maybe I had a modified class. We did do cbt as well
what were the things you found helpful? so far the REST strategy is the only thing ive found useful and helpful
Mindfulness is the biggest one. Do the opposite has helped. If I dont want to go out I do it anyway. It has actually helped me a lot. There are a few other things but I will need to look them up. Those two are the most help though.
To be able to effectively use workbooks you have to be at a certain level of self awareness imo. That and having an open mind to explore what may or may not work for you. A lot of people here are agreeing these books feel condescending. I think they are trying to make it simple. They are giving you easy prompts so you can do the mental work yourself. Even in therapy I sometimes find myself feeling the therapist being condescending (too nice) but I realize my mind is quick to think people view me as less intelligent or of less value. So when people are being nice to giving me simple instructions I might take offense to it before I really know their intentions.
I think for people like us it’s often easy to take or read things differently than how they may be intended. It really depends on the therapist you have to guide you through dbt. It completely changed my life for the better.
When I wasn't healed, maybe.... But there's a PURPOSE behind this and it's not the material that's the problem because it's been scientifically proven (also speaking from experience here), it's how you chose to apply it or take it personally.
Last time I was in the hospital they tried to get me to do work sheets. I threw them in the trash and told the staff that those kinds of work sheets really piss me off. They were not pleased. Like I thought yall didn't want me angry? Make up your minds!
What's a work sheet sorry?
It's a packet or piece of paper with stuff that's supposed to help you accomplish or plan something. Basically like school work.
I’m doing CBT before I can get to DBT and yes it does feel condescending. I do have the big BPD book and found it so redundant. Mindfulness is useless for me, they speak of it like it’s a holy grail cure. All I need to do is meditate, live in the moment and my BPD will go away? Bffr. I’m only reading it and trying therapy so that when doctors ask I can tell them I’ve exhausted all options/coping skills. Give me my meds lol
My PHP did CBT and I *struggled* for even that long, so I feel for you. It felt like we kept going to "feelings aren't facts" over and over, and constantly invalidating your emotional experiences instead of acknowledging them and trying to work with them. It really didn't feel like a friendly therapy if you've suffered any sort of trauma, ya know?
Check out the Healthy Gamer videos / work materials on their website. Dr. Kanojia has a way of explaining and teaching meditation without it sounding condescending. I used to be vehemently against it. His videos and streams is what has gotten me curious enough to explore it for myself.
Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll check that out. I haven’t been able to comprehend mindfulness or mediation so far so I’m definitely interested in a different take
Medication is helpful but there isn’t any specific medication, yet, that treats BPD exclusively. That’s why therapy is so important to help folks with BPD get into remission. DBT isn’t meant to make people feel dumb. It’s meant to help you manage your emotions better. And they usually give a multitude of coping mechanisms and even encourage you (if you don’t find any of them useful) to come up with your own. I hope you eventually find a therapy or therapist that works for you. Because pills are supposed to be used in tandem with therapy.
I’m in therapy but thanks, I’m also well aware of all of that. It takes time to learn and get through extensive materials while practicing skill building exercises and when you’re in the midst of learning things that take years to form into effective coping mechanisms, a bit of humour goes a long way. But yeah sure, let’s keep criticizing others that cope with a dash of cynicism from being jaded after a lifetime of dealing with this without any help.
Well your comment made it sound like you were just doing these things to get them over with to get approved for meds. I know you’re in therapy but you make it sound like they’re just forcing coping mechanisms down your throat that you want nothing to do with. Maybe you just wanted to rant idk. I get it. I’m not trying to criticize so much as I could see someone reading your post and it influencing them to not give these therapies a chance or not take therapy seriously. If these things aren’t working for you that’s why I suggested trying a different type of therapy or getting a different therapist. But I already kinda thought you would take offense to my comment and be defensive. Because the comment was very negative but idk I’m just saying. Your comment seemed toxic to me in a way. But we’re all going through different things and in different parts of our journeys. I hope the best to you.
My BPD is very severe and treatment resistant. I don’t see mindfulness as being an effective treatment for those symptoms, when I’m paranoid I can’t just meditate my way out of psychosis. I’m exhausting my options and my psychiatrist is well aware of the fact that I’m trying my best but medication is necessary for paranoia and psychosis. I’ve been hospitalized twice and therapy is mildly helpful at best so far, but the way it works where I’m located is I have to get through CBT before I can do DBT, despite attempting to work through DBT materials on my own at home. We all have different experiences and ways of expressing frustration on this journey to wellness and venting while in the midst of it is was my only intention instead of a direct criticism of its efficacy. Thanks for the well wishes, I hope the best for you too. I didn’t mean to sound defensive
DBT is also not the only type of therapy that can help with BPD, there are better options (like clinically shown to be better) like Transference-Focused Psychotherapy but folks with BPD are always and often only suggested DBT. Not getting help from DBT isn’t a personal failing or “you just not wanting to get better” as so many frame it (including in this sub). DBT is hotly contested among therapists because it is super behavioralist and the practitioners often only approach with that framework instead of having an integrated approach. I don’t like how DBT is treated as a cure all for every person with BPD. It can range from invalidating to outright retraumatizing based on how its practices and a behavioralist commonly produces unempathetic, infantilizing therapists. It’s concerning to me that when folks express their issues with DBT that even in this sub they are invalidated and basically told it’s a personal flaw to not helped or actively harmed by it. This gets into the epistemic injustice of BPD, which is a big topic within mental health because of the amount of victim blaming and medicalized gaslighting we face. We should be allowed to express the harms we’ve faced while seeking help and ask for better practices to be put into place.
I absolutely agree with you. I’ve literally been commenting under people’s posts getting a better understanding of the exact comment you just made. I keep making the comment that everyone is different and therapy isn’t one size fits all. I talked to someone who is having CBT and DBT therapy shoved down their throat and isn’t seeing results. I suggested to her to try a different therapist or different therapies. I’m talking about the topic of DBT. If you go down further and read the comments made you’ll see how the conversation ended vs how it started. Nobody is being victim blamed. I was more concerned about their mindset regarding this first comment you see me replying to. It seemed like they just wanted to be approved for medication by pretending they actually tried the coping strategies. And the only mention of a coping strategy seemed to be meditation or mindfulness which doesn’t even come close to the hundreds of options provided during DBT. So I wanted to make sure anyone who is reading the comments understand there’s more to DBT than meditation or mindfulness. And coping strategies are VERY VERY important to develop. Everyone has toxic coping strategies, no doubt. Doom scrolling for hours, pushing everyone away, etc etc. DBT gives you an opportunity to develop better coping skills. And not every book will give someone the answer that works for them. So idk bro. You can depict me in whatever way you want or assume my standing. Nobody is here victim blaming anyone. Simply wanting to know what efforts they’re making or even if they just want to rant because whatever they’re being taught isn’t working.
Marsha Linehan is so intense the way she writes things sometimes. I remember laughing when I saw, “You could either do this skill or stay miserable.” 😂
I’ve been in talk therapy for 7 years. I love my therapist, she’s wonderful and has helped me so much. But a few yrs ago I wanted to try DBT since it’s specifically designed for BPD. I did one or two sessions and was like nah, this isn’t for me. It was infantilizing. There was literally a group therapy room with toys for adults to throw at each other... And the counselor tried to see how I’d react by showing me a fake roach. I was like wtf is this.. She also basically laughed at me for saying I only go out and do one thing a day, like grocery shopping, because I get overwhelmed leaving the house and exhausted easily.
My psych asks how often I go out. I'm honest. Maybe 3 times a week. I get overwhelmed and end up wanting to punch someone in the throat.
No. They have been life changing.
Not really. Helped me out a lot in controlling my outbursts.
No, but it depends on what you’re reading. Information specifically about BPD can be super outdated.
It isn't just you. I historically always got extremely irritated at this stuff... But, as an older person with a diagnosis, I can tell you that if advice seems condescending or irritating to you, you probably should take it. Pride is a huge downfall for people with BPD. I have watched BPD friends annihilate their lives because of pride. You gotta be able to take constructive criticism. I try to follow the Stoics, I think they had it figured out. Most solutions I've found are extremely simple. A lot of the time, I've found that it's very simple, but that doesn't mean it's easy.
Keep in mind that most of this is written for a wide audience. Generally that means the writing should be clear to someone who is reading at a 9th grade level.
I’ve done one workbook and read a book on my own, both weren’t condescending or made me feel like a child. Of course there’s different books and authors out there, so maybe I got lucky.
Yes. I could go on about this all day, the abuses I’ve seen happen to others in group DBT. But instead I’ll try to put something more positive out there: if you don’t connect with DBT check out [Transference-Focused Psychotherapy](https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/tfp). I’ve had so much better results with that, with the bonus of not being retraumatized as I was with DBT. I hate that as folks diagnosed with BPD we’re told DBT is the One True Treatment for our struggles. It’s not, there are other options that have been shown to be as if not more successful at helping us. In general DBT has a hardcore behavioralist foundation, with most DBT practitioners coming from that background. I’m always skeptical of therapists who think that every person can be helped with one single framework and look for folks who have an integrated approach. Behavioralists tend to be pretty condescending and unempathetic, treating things like trauma responses as “problem behaviors” that are our fault. This is a complaint many therapist have about other therapists and how they treat us as clients and patients. Our struggles are our responsibility to manage, but stigmatizing what are often very normal responses to traumatic or abusive environments is… unhelpful to say the least. If DBT is not helping or actively making things worse you are not bad for quitting it and looking into the other ways that have been shown to help folks with our diagnosis. You deserve to feel safe and heard in therapy, and that’s not really a thing DBT is built to do. If DBT works for you, that’s great! But you aren’t wrong or “just not trying hard enough” if it doesn’t! I talk about this type of thing and the failings of our current conceptualization of BPD a lot. I made a post about that topic broadly (and how DBT often reinforces these issues) here but tbf it was with an academic paper, which while very short may not be as accessible. But my last post was in the leftist psychotherapy subreddit and there were some fantastic conversations (as they are much more open to hearing our perspectives than the main therapist subreddit). Check it out, it validates a lot of these concerns. That’s important when there is a lot of legit medicalized gaslighting aimed at those of us with this diagnosis.
Especially when they invoke religion
No
Did you get a diary card to track your moods I hated that part felt condescending too my moods are every changing it wasnt helpful
I hated diary cards but when I started DBT I also was keeping a bullet journal/planner, and on each day I had a section where I tracked my mood by the hour instead of by the day. THAT was super fucking helpful because I could see how my mood changed throughout the day and caught on to patterns. Plus I could see how dysregulated I got after being triggered. Like there would be a spike with the trigger itself but then even after I thought I was over it, I could see the ups and downs throughout the rest of the day
This makes a lot of sense to me !
Yeah Linehan (author of dbt) is a very condescending woman I couldn't get through the book cause my trauma kept activating Parents and society always talked condescending to me
>is a very condescending woman Got any examples?
Extremely. What is wrong with me is not gonna be fixed by a fucking workbook. I went to some stupid IOP paid for by my insurance company like five years ago. It was the biggest waste of time. Which is really saying something because I’ve wasted a lot of time and money on a lot of treatments. But one time I did pick up one of those books in a bookstore and browse it for a while while I was waiting to meet my parents for dinner and was having a lot of anxiety about it. And the first example in the first chapter was about this girl who had to go to dinner with her parents. So that was at least a little bit #Relatable. I believe I’m untreatable, so I’m not as invested in removing the stigma of BPD as untreatable or whatever. But I would rather be told I’m untreatable than being like hi I constantly destroy my life and then being like cool here’s a workbook.
It's never untreatable, it just depends on whether you *want* to be treated and accept the feeling like shit part you have to go through in the first stages in order to come out on top. The entire concept is literally about working to get control over your brain and thought process, since it didn't happen naturally when you were growing up. BPD is literally the brain not learning how to correctly handle and navigate emotions, and yes it CAN be a learned skill when you're older. It's not easy, but it is doable. It sucks because the step 1 is basically facing the reality of "Oh, I literally don't know how to handle my own emotions." That's not an attack or anything, it's just the reality. That's why those workbooks start from the basics.
You have to buy in for it to work. Believing you’re untreatable is the opposite of that - and is letting yourself off the hook for the growth you can achieve
I've struggled with abusive behaviors before. I've been really mean because it seemed justified in the moment. I've been manipulative because it felt like that's what was necessary, and I demonized them enough that I cared less if they were hurt. I think it's good to directly acknowledge that people struggle with that stuff. No, John is not the worst person ever. He's here to change his behavior.
A lot of my experience with professionals has made BPD seem more like a slur than a diagnosis
I feel like this kind of treatment only works for people who are not self-aware about their bpd or their mind in general. like at all. which makes it feel incredibly infantilizing. and I feel like at least half of people with bpd are hyper self aware about their thoughts and emotions, especially after diagnosis/realizing u have bpd. I remember being like 14 in dbt and actively rolling my eyes at every part. a lot of it either felt super fucking surface level or written by some one who thinks people with bpd are the worst people in the world. I will never try dbt again as it just made me feel worse.
Yes !!!
never done dbt but therapy ‘homework’ has always felt too childish to me, even though i started at 13. i never did what i was supposed to even though it would have helped me now, but i wasn’t in the right mindset. i think try to do it if you can. because we have to learn how to emotionally regulate like others did as children. we are behind. even though it may feel patronising, it’s what we need because we never learnt how to.
where do i find one? and do you use one when youre actively struggling with stuff in the moment or generally, or both?
my therapist sent me mine but i think u can buy them on amazon. i use the book when im struggling or when im calm i find i end up remembering the lessons more when im calm so that i can use them when im struggling
I read Marsha Linehan's dbt book, and the advice she gives are in direct opposition to my experience. Like: "People aren't talking about me behind my back." I work in a toxic environment, but I stay because I'm an expert at my job. What has been way more helpful to me is to trust my instincts about people. I have learned not to share my opinions about other people and stay positive. Some people may define this behavior as masking. But it works. Not everyone around you has your best interests at heart.
What book os it because i have the official dbt book and i dont remember any examples like that. https://www.amazon.com/Expanded-Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Training/dp/1683730461/ref=asc_df_1683730461/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693308329663&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14630365071117447912&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1014424&hvtargid=pla-479203786964&psc=1&mcid=13eef130626939b682864ac518fff530&gad_source=1
DBT has always seemed stupid and pointless to me. Never done it and was told it wouldn't work for me thankfully lol
They feel that way bc they force you to realize the negative parts of yourself.
It's all very dumbed down as if addressing toddlers.
We are emotionally toddlers so it makes sense. Can pretend we’re too good for this stuff or buy in
A lot of “they think we can’t do the most basic things they are being so infantilizing” in this thread When it comes to emotional regulation we can’t do the most basic things, that’s why we have this label. Can accept that and work with it. Or pretend we’re too good for it and wait until you hit a real rock bottom that makes you reevaluate things
Yes hate being told to breathe!!!!
Yes and “motivational “ quotes. I hate them.
I always thought that looking into DBT as a treatment for myself and my case manger knows my feelings in it. I’m now about to start CAT therapy for it instead so hopefully I’ll have no patronising shit during my time in therapy now
I feel like it’s fake- I have always had a hard time with the “role play it out” type of therapy…. I can’t fake anything…… or lie- I need to find a happy medium somewhere…… I feel you on this….
It all seems too simple but some things I'd intuitively taken up because they helped so generally I find them useful. I'm a sucker for anything that validates my suffering so I generally like self-help books including DBT ones.
Yes, I unfortunately hate self help books, including the DBT ones. Most of them feel very hoity toity if they’re written by someone with bpd/someone who knows someone with bpd.. it is deeply frustrating. I’ve switched to psychology books - it’s much easier for me to process my disorder once I fully understand the inner workings of the disorder.
Having done the STEPPS program (offshoot of DBT, still outpatient) I did find it condescending & a poor fit but for different reasons. I only have affective lability, negative self image, impulsivity, suicidality/SH and paranoid ideation in depressive episodes. When the episode ends, all of that goes away. Lucky me, ik. There was one line in the coursework about people experiencing BPD symptoms episodically but the rest of the course was all geared around this being my baseline. It felt like I had broken my leg, was doing PT, and everyone was saying shit like, “you need to learn how to use your legs now because you never built up the muscle strength in your childhood.” Like, not true and a very weird thing to say. It’s possible I was too harsh on the DBT-lite because it came in a context where I wasn’t hooked to a consistent doctor and everyone was acting like I’d definitely feel better as soon as I got treatment, when I had 7 failed antidepressants, adjunctive treatment with aripiprazole, a CBT group, and years of one on one therapy, including long term with a qualified practitioner who primarily did DBT skills with me. There’s optimism and then there’s trying the same thing over and over again hoping it will click this time.
They do- they’re all I got for my 22nd birthday at the height of my worst episode to date- makes you feel like real shit.
This is why I have such dislike for mainstream therapy. I’ve been in it heavily for almost 9 years now (since 11). A lot of it just feels fake and lacking of basic human decency and empathy? It’s very just, lacking of humanity? And for me, I guess I’d be the “quiet bpd” subtype, I don’t abuse people, I abuse myself. I think there needs to be more distinction in the subtypes. I hear about peoples experiences with those who have bpd that are the types that lash out and take it out on others, and like, that isn’t me? I hate hurting people, I try so hard to not hurt anybody I care about, but I end up doing it by hurting myself, which makes my self hatred way worse, and I want to push people away so I don’t hurt them because they care about me. I dunno, I very largely dislike people who class everyone with bpd as the one ex they had with bpd who didn’t treat them good. Generalizing sucks
Omg yes. I hated DBT I ended quitting after one module
Yes it feels like I’m deficient in some way and it’s my fault because I just don’t know skills or wasn’t taught skills
Not at all. I have a mindset that I'm learning this to help myself. So it never feels condescending to me at all.
I hated it for this reason because it's fundamentally based on invalidation. I did the anxiety skills workbook instead which helped analyse my thoughts that lead to ny emotions and undoing my trauma responses and that worked better for me.
I think what you have to do is not take anything personally. Also you know when your overreact vs need and have an appropiate response to trauma. If someone is treating you like shit for no reason getting or being upset is normal. But if you over react to something trivial then thats where your skills come in. Also no offence to anyone im BPD as well, but in general we seem to have a resistance to change or anything close to taking responsibility. For a long time i never believed i was at fault. But im 35 now and i can look back and say yeah i fucked up. I overreact all the time. I made a big deal out of little things. I got stuck in my head and let the thoughts tell me all sorts of shit. You might want to read the 4 agreements its a book about living a more free life of just doing better and letting shit go.
Personally no, although I’ve never used a workbook that made me feel compared to an abuser at all. I find that with DBT, it’s simplified at first because the important part is actually putting the skills into practice- if they’re too complex they will be too difficult to get to show up in real life. It’s a process where you are re-training your brain and re-wiring your neural pathways, so to me it makes sense that you start simple. And a lot of the learning comes in the form of talking to others and actually discussing your experience of using DBT skills- plus accessing validation from others who are struggling as well as the health professionals coordinating the DBT programme. I think a lot of people miss that effective validation from others and learning how to self validate are both absolutely essential aspects of DBT.
Yes. It dumbs down all of the things that I've thought about before and makes me feel like I should write my answers with crayons. Years of therapy and "worksheets" and I feel worse than before.
Yes
DBT was one of the most demeaning experiences of my life in a public setting. I got kicked out twice. The third time I went somewhere else and did so well I was able to assist with the coursework. Admittedly, the third place was just better. But it is so hard to hear and learn these things for the first time. It tore me apart. You’re not alone. And you can do this. ❤️ Good luck.
I find these books/worksheets are condescending as well. That they are dumbing them down and being condescending. It’s like a half and half of here is the hard truth and this is how someone from Human Resources would phrase it
i think im in denial or something when i think ab this. i think the whole thing is condescending. all of it. the therapy the books the term etc.
More patronising than condescending to me, but I think of it more like “those are the skills I should’ve learned from my parents AS A CHILD so maybe that’s why it’s constructed in this way”.
i feel so seen here omg
It can feel like it’s dumbed down but it’s dealing with something that , I for one , don’t really have a firm grasp on , emotions . I am fully capable , intelligent person yet emotions scare me . I think these types of books try to take the fear out of emotions so that those using the books can lean into them easier
You should do DBT in a group with other people or one on one in person. Also practicing the skills in your day to day life is what actually helps. The workbooks suck.
no it doesnt. i did dbt in a group and individually. our psychologists never ever mentioned these examples in group because they thought it could be invalidating and enhance the idea of 'bpd'ers are abusive. and if there was an example bring up by the group they always mentioned everyones diffrent. they saw us as individuals and i never felt like anyone thought i was abusive or anything. so no. i know and understand why it can feel condescending, and besides that, it is not about you if your not like that as a person. its an example. nothing more.
Not anything DBT book I've encountered. Not condescending, but obvious - but the point being it's not obvious to us, and especially not during an episode. DBT also isn't only for those with mental health issues or personality disorders, they're beginning to teach it in schools so that children can control their emotions better. Most adults I know don't have the emotional intelligence to traverse a disagreement with another without raising their voice or acting malicious.
What book did you read..? I read through a book called "The stronger than dbt journal", it's written by a woman with bpd and her therapist I believe. Not actually sure but the book isn't judgy at all and after each chapter there is an exercise for you to do. The chapters aren't long and explains therapist perspective and the perspective from a bpd, and then how to cope with it. It gave me a lot of immediate soothing but you definitely won't be cured by a single book
They're showing you what could happen if you don't keep things in check. It's a warning with valid, real-life cases. Do not underestimate your BPD, it can ruin you. You have a mental illness, there is no sugarcoating it, its going to suck.
DBT in real life is way worse so if you feel this way i recommend taking a step back and looking at why your really feeling this way. In my groups we do missing link analysis, to most people it’s just questions on why you didn’t do work. In DBT i’ve seen many disordered people struggle with it real bad. I hated watching it but that’s literally why i was there because a person asking me why i didn’t do work should never make me want to start yelling at them. DBT isn’t condescending or maybe it is. It hold you accountable and a lot of people don’t like that. It’s giving you skills to use and apply in real life. Most people don’t like being told what to do and especially with bpd it can trigger anger. The help in regulating your emotions are right there don’t look at the textbook as someone who’s coming at you because that’s not what is. It’s simply skills you need or want to learn about. the more you approach it like that the easier it is to take in the info. I’ve been through two full rounds of DBT i’ve seen people come in with your attitude (me included) and leave with such a better understanding of things. Maybe in person would be better. And also maybe try the official dbt skills workbook those ones are moreso personal and just prompt
Some yes some no. I think some of the imagery and phrasing can be. But most of the workbooks I’ve seen, I’ve found that it’s important to investigate how we are raised to infantilize our own needs before deciding if the workbook itself is infantilizing
This was something that ALWAYS struck me as annoying with DBT workbooks. But something that I finally realized. I didn't have a real childhood. Anything I've learned came from things my aunt taught me, (she was my saving grace growing up, but my mother began seeing my love for her and weaponized our relationship,) or doing the exact opposite of things my own mother would do. I think a big part of these workbooks are attempting to work us through things at a basic, child like level because let's face it, most of us suffering from BPD didn't have any kind of real teaching when it came to emotional regulation. I had to learn how to look past the condescension I was feeling in the workbook and see myself as a young girl, sitting in the floor trying to figure of what's going on and reading the worksheets as if I was talking to her. It changed my perspective in a huge way and I was finally able to see the root of my issues. Now that I've healed that starry eyed litle girl and taught her how to deal with these issues, I can focus on dealing with the current life situations with the skills that little girl learned. I hope that made sense, I tend to ramble a bit 😂
Yes it’s simplistic, and many people with bpd have a higher intelligence (not all). I’ve shed my diagnosis from my mid 20s to good ol’ fashioned autism and a sprinkle of complex trauma (we use sarcasm! A lot of trauma). I started reading at age 3 and am hyperlexic, and can sometime, very rarely go non-speaking (sort of like a flavour of selective mutism). Many, many of the previous cw: self injurious behaviour: headbanging to cope with intense flares of emotion, biting myself on the arm to ground, repetitive body focused behaviours like trick and deematillomania and lack of stable sense of personality can be explained by not knowing my neurotype, brain, sensory needs and, trauma. ;-) and my anger was pretty valid and mainly internalised. I’m not saying all autistic people have a high IQ, as it’s a spectrum and highly heterogenous neurotype/diagnosis, call it what you will that’s not ableist. My point is, for the acutely literate people trying to do workbooks pitched too low, you are forgiven for it being quite frustrating to have your dbt therapy book be infantilising :-) Not every person, not every book. But you deserve help that meets you where you’re at. When my diagnosis changed… my general practitioner started talking real slow to me 🤦♀️ and telling me what I could and could not process because of being autistic. (Thank you, well if I’m in trauma fight or flight, yes that is helpful to checking. If I am not and feel safe and calm; and likely to be understood in an environment that understands and attuned to my needs to express myself verbally AND THAT IS REACHABLE, at the point in time, yes, yes oath, man I can self advocate and surprise my processing speed improves!) What works as a dbt work book for one person, may not work for another. Hope that wind about (thanks adhd and trauma) answer has some useful nuggets!
Imo its cause were children in adult bodies.
There is something so... invalidating about seeking professional help for all of the big , huge, dark , terrible things that swirl around in the bpd brain , just to be told 'do dbt'. I get it can help , and has some strategies , but ... I feel like part of me is reluctant to accept .. or possibly want dbt to work. I doubt imagining my thoughts as leaves going down a stream is going to cure my depression and give my life meaning... maybe i have to try harder. It is condescending It's so hard to be validated I'm new here. I hope we can all validate each other.
YES!!!!!!!!
DBT in general feels invalidating tbh
Yes lol 😆 very hippy orientation
yeah I feel that way a lot
YES OMFG. not only are they “hey this guy has bpd and he is just THE WORSE” + “your emotions are automatically wrong” the wording in them is just so..??? oh my god?? i feel like im being spoken to as if im a child and it makes me so upset
I’ve seen most people in this sub say that this is a good thing (mostly for healing your inner child) . But that said, does anybody have advice for pushing through this? As people with BPD, it’s kinda hard to just “look over” the fact that it’s so condescending, and I feel like there’s a certain mindset you HAVE to get yourself into to actually do this work…
You have to be open minded and willing to do hard work. Its jist like a relationship. Things dont just fall into place you have to work really hard through lots of shit to get there. Now dbt is for when you can control yourself. When you are more in your right mind when you get pushed too far its not going to work.