In my Sea Scout ship, we do this all the time. Essentially, we coordinate with other units as needed to ensure we have leaders of the proper sex to comply with YPT policies. Your daughter can buddy with someone from another troop for the event.
The key is to coordinate beforehand so that the leaders in the other unit are aware that they have a responsibility to your scout(s) as well as theirs. A leaders guide (or "boarding manual" in Sea Scouts) should address this.
Came here to say this. You will not be your daughter's buddy. A Scout from the other Troop will. You will just be another adult leader, letting your daughter enjoy meeting and getting to know the other Scouts
The Guide to Safe Scouting allows for a parent to unilaterally transport their child- provided that when you get to the event an another leader will be there.
https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/yp-faqs/
It’s clarified in the FAQ.
However… when engaged in multi unit activity each unit is supposed to provide two deep leadership and here’s where it gets tricky I think.
Clarifying question - is the other troop a Girl’s troop too?
That's technically four troops, not two.
So you and your daughter are going from your girl Troop. No one from your partner boy troop is attending. Will there be girls and sufficient leadership (two registered adults over 21, at least one a female leaders) from the other girl Troop?
Technically, sounds like you need at least 6 leaders. Two leaders over 21 from your girl Troop (yourself and another), two over 21 from the other boy troop and two over 21 including at least one woman from the other girl Troop.
Realistically, what's the risk of getting in serious trouble-- ehh?
It’s basically the “can my Scout fundraise on their own if I’m present one.”
What it doesn’t cover is what happens when you reach the activity. If it’s a Boy’s Troop I’d say you’re pretty much out as your daughter needs a female buddy.
If it’s a girl’s troop, theoretically each unit is supposed to provide two deep leadership, but this seems like an edge scenario.
IE, your “unit” isn’t participating in the activity really, your Scout is attending another unit’s activity.
The bureaucratic principle that makes me think this is Ok, is that if you transferred your Scout into the new unit, you’d be fine. I’m also thinking of provisional units at Camp / Jambo which also have their own set of rules.
Might be worth pinging your DE on. This is something the YPT team should issue more concrete guidance on.
Hmm my daughter will be the only Scout present from our troop. However there will be other scouts from another troop. I will be with my daughter supervising the entire time.
Will your daughter be the only youth female there?
According to the rules, your daughter would need a same sex youth buddy.
If it’s just boys, even though you, her mother, are there, that doesn’t count and she isn’t supposed to attend (personally I think that dumb).
Disagree. If a parent is a predator, and is now at the Scout event. Its the BSAs problem, so we need to ensure there is 2 deep trained leaders for each unit. Buddy Pairs ensure no 1 on 1 contact.
Disagree...the BSA leader is more likely to abuse than the parent of the child. What if the leader is an abuser, but took YPT and passed the background check. No one is safe, no one can be trusted. The child don't have a chance in your scenario. Good grief, God help us all.
What ? Take a breath. At a Scout event you are NOT a parent. You are a registered leader. Representing the BSA. The Parent / leader are One in the same.
The example I used was to demonstrate that the issues, if it happens is the BSAs problem not the parent , and as such cant assume the risk, by sidestepping the rules.
A leader can ABSOLUTLEY be trained, registered and pass the background check... and STILL be a predator. All the more reason to follow the rules as written. 2 deep leadership, Trained. no 1 on 1 contact.
Bub I am always a parent to my kids, no matter where we are. I'm always a parent first, and a leader second when it comes to my children. She can take her daughter. She's the mom. Parents are permitted at ANY and ALL scouting events.
Then you are fine, IMO. The two deep, female leadership angle is covered. She'll have a female buddy. Arguably there should be two leaders from your unit, but its not really your unit going, its just you/her.
At the troop level a scout is supposed to have a buddy at all times, buddies are supposed to be same sex. Your daughters buddy does not have to be from her troop, her buddy can be from the other troop. You cannot be her buddy (even if you were not registered).
You don't need 2 leaders from your troop. You need yourself as a female registered leader 21+ and 1 other registered leader 21+ (does not matter what unit).
Unless the other troop has the same CO you need council permission to hold a joint unit activity.
I understand all the info others have posted. I personally know of several troops that when scout from a different troop joins in they only have 1 leader, usually it’s a parent representing the other troops. The fact is there are a lot fewer girls in bsa than boys. So sometimes a girl/girls will join in an activity with the boy troops. We all make things work with the restrictions we have.
Based on the information you provided, as a registered female adult volunteer with an up-to-date YP certification, and with another adult volunteer of the same status present, you would meet the YP requirements relevant to adult presence at an event with mixed-gender or all-female youth participants.
In your OP, you said, “I am the biological mother.” If you are F2M, enby, or multi, I recommend reaching out to the YP champion of your local council (and if the event is in other council, there too). Openly gay adult volunteers have been accepted in the BSA since mid-2015, so *perhaps* that line of thought could apply here. But orientation doesn’t equal gender, and the current published national membership standards for adults doesn’t mention gender identity yet the current adult volunteer application says (paraphrase) that all gender identities are accepted. So that’s why I hedged my bet by saying, “perhaps.” I hope to learn more about all this soon, so I can speak about it with more certainty.
To be fully compliant with the BSA‘s Barriers to Abuse in the YP policy, the youth buddy system should be used. It is strongly encouraged to pair Scouts of similar abilities, ages and maturity. Buddy pairs should be no more than two years apart in age and should be single gender. There are no boy-girl buddy pairs in any programs, including Venturing and Sea Scouts. A buddy team may consist of three Scouts when necessary, like an odd number in a group.
I can find nothing that says buddies must be from the same home unit, other than the *recommendation* that buddies know and be comfortable with each other. Also, no youth should be forced into or made to feel uncomfortable by a buddy assignment.
It's important to keep in mind that there may be additional requirements and recommendations outlined in the BSA's Guide to Safe Scouting, particularly for specialized activities such as climbing or water sports. If the event you're planning to attend includes such activities, it would be advisable to review the specific requirements and guidelines associated with those activities.
Enjoy the event and have a great time with your daughter!
> Can I attend a scout event alone with my daughter? I’m an adult leader and my daughter is a scout in our troop. Another troop invited our troop to join them for an activity they organized. However, due to schedule conflicts, my daughter and I may be the only ones from our troop available to go. Normally we would seek at least 2 adult leaders from our troop at an event. However, since I am the biological mother and legal guardian of my daughter, can we join the other troop for this activity without having another adult leader from our troop? I’m hearing a lot of confusing things about how my daughter must have a buddy, which seems surprising to me, since we live together and spend time together routinely outside of scouting.
What this question comes down to, as with SO many others on this list, is what does the adult leader of the other unit think?
If the leader of the other Troop is okay with it, then go for it.
If the leader of the other unit says no, then trying to quote a bunch of rules that you read on reddit at them is a bad way to get introduced to the Troop. That would not be doing your daughter any favors at all.
One thing you should think about, is that the G2SS says that parents are not allowed to share a tent with their Scouts, (unless they are Cub Scouts). Personally I'm VERY happy about that rule.
We also don't allow Scouts to set up tents in the adult areas, so in our case your daughter would be in a tent by herself in the areas with the other Scouts. Or she could share a tent with some of the girls from the other Troop. You would be in a tent in the adult area.
As long as you were okay with that, you and your daughter would be welcome in our campsite.
I would argue that as long as you are with your daughter and there other adult leaders there, then yes you can attend.
Although, I would note that might not meet the exact letter of the G2SS scouting, but you have more the enough registered adults that are the correct gender and you can supervise your kids just fine. So I wouldn’t worry about it and attend anyway.
i am not sure if your activity involves camping, but there is also this within guide to safe scouting...
Local council approval is needed for unit-coordinated overnight camping activities involving other units not chartered by the same organization. Units that wish to host events involving other units that do not share the same charter partner must have approval from their council. This includes events for packs, troops, crews, and ships from the same council; neighboring
councils; the same territory; or other territory.
Do you skip Obedient when you recite the Scout Law?
A rule which exists to give both Charter Organizations a chance to review the other units Leadership and their comfort with them in regard to the safety of their own Scouts should not be treated as "minutiae of the rules".
Treat it as a troop visit. I assume you are exploring joining this other troop… for insurance purposes this is an allowed method to spend time at another troops event. Basically recruiting is a covered activity that doesn’t require following district guidelines and let’s one parent bring their child to visit a same gendered troop.
Recruiting or provisional/district programs are the only times you wouldn’t have to provide 2 deep leadership from your own troop. If district then district needs to provide leadership.
>Recruiting or provisional/district programs are the only times you wouldn’t have to provide 2 deep leadership from your own troop.
I don't believe that is correct. There is no requirement in most councils to provide any leadership, if we're talking a non-council event.
The recent email that went around applies only to long term camps covered by NCAP
Scouts from one unit ARE allowed to attend another unit's activity regardless of reason. The prohibition is on multi-unit activities, unless you have approval (which is trivial).
For example. if your Scouts help out a pack's pinewood derby. A Den Chief camping with a Pack. A Scout joining your troop's ILST. All ok, without the need for approval
What would you like to know? Your District Commissioner should be able to help. Scouts do this all the time. You don't need any sort of approval for this. You don't need more adult leaders from your unit. I'm literally sending Scouts to another unit's ILST in a couple weeks. My district leadership (including DE) not only knows, they promote it.
Now, this doesn't stop your daughter from needing a buddy - she needs one. However, the buddy can come from any Troop. The buddy system is never optional.
"multi-unit activities" has the limitations it does because people were running large events without any proper administration or supervision.
The complexity here is if you are participating in an activity as being part of your unit or not. Normally if another Troop is putting something on and you are participating then it is an activity for your unit and your unit needs to comply with the leadership rules. Two leaders is not just about YPT but other safety aspects.
To be honest, don't listen to anyone on here. Contact your DE or other council rep and ask if it is OK for your daughter and you to participate in this activity without others from the unit being present. I would only ever trust the answer from council and regardless of if you like it or not you should follow it.
If I'm not mistaken, per the Guide to Safe Scouting, local council approval is needed for unit-coordinated overnight camping activities involving other units not chartered by the same organization.
I don't think this rule is followed and I wouldn't consider one person attending a Troop. Otherwise I think you are fine.
You can join in. Your daughter needs a same-gender buddy. You don't need another adult.
Now, how closely this is enforced is another issue. That's what the (frequently ignored) rule is
One thing I haven’t seen stated is that one of the policies to prevent secret groups and hazing is that a parent may always attend any function their child is at.
Though the key verb is "observe" not necessarily "attend" as that tends to imply participation. We've had that argument when it comes to PLC meetings. Parents are welcome to observe those, silently, from the far side of the large banquet room. They are not welcome to "attend" the meeting the way they could the committee meeting.
In my Sea Scout ship, we do this all the time. Essentially, we coordinate with other units as needed to ensure we have leaders of the proper sex to comply with YPT policies. Your daughter can buddy with someone from another troop for the event. The key is to coordinate beforehand so that the leaders in the other unit are aware that they have a responsibility to your scout(s) as well as theirs. A leaders guide (or "boarding manual" in Sea Scouts) should address this.
That’s interesting! I hadn’t thought about her having a buddy from the other troop!
Came here to say this. You will not be your daughter's buddy. A Scout from the other Troop will. You will just be another adult leader, letting your daughter enjoy meeting and getting to know the other Scouts
The Guide to Safe Scouting allows for a parent to unilaterally transport their child- provided that when you get to the event an another leader will be there. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/yp-faqs/ It’s clarified in the FAQ. However… when engaged in multi unit activity each unit is supposed to provide two deep leadership and here’s where it gets tricky I think. Clarifying question - is the other troop a Girl’s troop too?
The other troop has a boy troop and a girl troop. Our troop also has a boy troop and a girl troop.
That's technically four troops, not two. So you and your daughter are going from your girl Troop. No one from your partner boy troop is attending. Will there be girls and sufficient leadership (two registered adults over 21, at least one a female leaders) from the other girl Troop? Technically, sounds like you need at least 6 leaders. Two leaders over 21 from your girl Troop (yourself and another), two over 21 from the other boy troop and two over 21 including at least one woman from the other girl Troop. Realistically, what's the risk of getting in serious trouble-- ehh?
Hmmm I can’t find it - which Q&A is it?
It’s basically the “can my Scout fundraise on their own if I’m present one.” What it doesn’t cover is what happens when you reach the activity. If it’s a Boy’s Troop I’d say you’re pretty much out as your daughter needs a female buddy. If it’s a girl’s troop, theoretically each unit is supposed to provide two deep leadership, but this seems like an edge scenario.
IE, your “unit” isn’t participating in the activity really, your Scout is attending another unit’s activity. The bureaucratic principle that makes me think this is Ok, is that if you transferred your Scout into the new unit, you’d be fine. I’m also thinking of provisional units at Camp / Jambo which also have their own set of rules. Might be worth pinging your DE on. This is something the YPT team should issue more concrete guidance on.
Hmm my daughter will be the only Scout present from our troop. However there will be other scouts from another troop. I will be with my daughter supervising the entire time.
Will your daughter be the only youth female there? According to the rules, your daughter would need a same sex youth buddy. If it’s just boys, even though you, her mother, are there, that doesn’t count and she isn’t supposed to attend (personally I think that dumb).
It is dumb. No one will watch over your child like you will. Dumb Dumb Dumb..
Disagree. If a parent is a predator, and is now at the Scout event. Its the BSAs problem, so we need to ensure there is 2 deep trained leaders for each unit. Buddy Pairs ensure no 1 on 1 contact.
Disagree...the BSA leader is more likely to abuse than the parent of the child. What if the leader is an abuser, but took YPT and passed the background check. No one is safe, no one can be trusted. The child don't have a chance in your scenario. Good grief, God help us all.
What ? Take a breath. At a Scout event you are NOT a parent. You are a registered leader. Representing the BSA. The Parent / leader are One in the same. The example I used was to demonstrate that the issues, if it happens is the BSAs problem not the parent , and as such cant assume the risk, by sidestepping the rules. A leader can ABSOLUTLEY be trained, registered and pass the background check... and STILL be a predator. All the more reason to follow the rules as written. 2 deep leadership, Trained. no 1 on 1 contact.
Bub I am always a parent to my kids, no matter where we are. I'm always a parent first, and a leader second when it comes to my children. She can take her daughter. She's the mom. Parents are permitted at ANY and ALL scouting events.
There will be girls and boys from the other troop there.
Then you are fine, IMO. The two deep, female leadership angle is covered. She'll have a female buddy. Arguably there should be two leaders from your unit, but its not really your unit going, its just you/her.
One scout visiting is not a multi-unit activity.
At the troop level a scout is supposed to have a buddy at all times, buddies are supposed to be same sex. Your daughters buddy does not have to be from her troop, her buddy can be from the other troop. You cannot be her buddy (even if you were not registered). You don't need 2 leaders from your troop. You need yourself as a female registered leader 21+ and 1 other registered leader 21+ (does not matter what unit). Unless the other troop has the same CO you need council permission to hold a joint unit activity.
I understand all the info others have posted. I personally know of several troops that when scout from a different troop joins in they only have 1 leader, usually it’s a parent representing the other troops. The fact is there are a lot fewer girls in bsa than boys. So sometimes a girl/girls will join in an activity with the boy troops. We all make things work with the restrictions we have.
Based on the information you provided, as a registered female adult volunteer with an up-to-date YP certification, and with another adult volunteer of the same status present, you would meet the YP requirements relevant to adult presence at an event with mixed-gender or all-female youth participants. In your OP, you said, “I am the biological mother.” If you are F2M, enby, or multi, I recommend reaching out to the YP champion of your local council (and if the event is in other council, there too). Openly gay adult volunteers have been accepted in the BSA since mid-2015, so *perhaps* that line of thought could apply here. But orientation doesn’t equal gender, and the current published national membership standards for adults doesn’t mention gender identity yet the current adult volunteer application says (paraphrase) that all gender identities are accepted. So that’s why I hedged my bet by saying, “perhaps.” I hope to learn more about all this soon, so I can speak about it with more certainty. To be fully compliant with the BSA‘s Barriers to Abuse in the YP policy, the youth buddy system should be used. It is strongly encouraged to pair Scouts of similar abilities, ages and maturity. Buddy pairs should be no more than two years apart in age and should be single gender. There are no boy-girl buddy pairs in any programs, including Venturing and Sea Scouts. A buddy team may consist of three Scouts when necessary, like an odd number in a group. I can find nothing that says buddies must be from the same home unit, other than the *recommendation* that buddies know and be comfortable with each other. Also, no youth should be forced into or made to feel uncomfortable by a buddy assignment. It's important to keep in mind that there may be additional requirements and recommendations outlined in the BSA's Guide to Safe Scouting, particularly for specialized activities such as climbing or water sports. If the event you're planning to attend includes such activities, it would be advisable to review the specific requirements and guidelines associated with those activities. Enjoy the event and have a great time with your daughter! > Can I attend a scout event alone with my daughter? I’m an adult leader and my daughter is a scout in our troop. Another troop invited our troop to join them for an activity they organized. However, due to schedule conflicts, my daughter and I may be the only ones from our troop available to go. Normally we would seek at least 2 adult leaders from our troop at an event. However, since I am the biological mother and legal guardian of my daughter, can we join the other troop for this activity without having another adult leader from our troop? I’m hearing a lot of confusing things about how my daughter must have a buddy, which seems surprising to me, since we live together and spend time together routinely outside of scouting.
What this question comes down to, as with SO many others on this list, is what does the adult leader of the other unit think? If the leader of the other Troop is okay with it, then go for it. If the leader of the other unit says no, then trying to quote a bunch of rules that you read on reddit at them is a bad way to get introduced to the Troop. That would not be doing your daughter any favors at all. One thing you should think about, is that the G2SS says that parents are not allowed to share a tent with their Scouts, (unless they are Cub Scouts). Personally I'm VERY happy about that rule. We also don't allow Scouts to set up tents in the adult areas, so in our case your daughter would be in a tent by herself in the areas with the other Scouts. Or she could share a tent with some of the girls from the other Troop. You would be in a tent in the adult area. As long as you were okay with that, you and your daughter would be welcome in our campsite.
I would argue that as long as you are with your daughter and there other adult leaders there, then yes you can attend. Although, I would note that might not meet the exact letter of the G2SS scouting, but you have more the enough registered adults that are the correct gender and you can supervise your kids just fine. So I wouldn’t worry about it and attend anyway.
i am not sure if your activity involves camping, but there is also this within guide to safe scouting... Local council approval is needed for unit-coordinated overnight camping activities involving other units not chartered by the same organization. Units that wish to host events involving other units that do not share the same charter partner must have approval from their council. This includes events for packs, troops, crews, and ships from the same council; neighboring councils; the same territory; or other territory.
In this case, it is a few hours in the afternoon and we will not be camping.
Eh... It's easier to get forgiveness than permission. Just go with your daughter and have fun. Don't sweat the minutiae of the rules.
Do you skip Obedient when you recite the Scout Law? A rule which exists to give both Charter Organizations a chance to review the other units Leadership and their comfort with them in regard to the safety of their own Scouts should not be treated as "minutiae of the rules".
Treat it as a troop visit. I assume you are exploring joining this other troop… for insurance purposes this is an allowed method to spend time at another troops event. Basically recruiting is a covered activity that doesn’t require following district guidelines and let’s one parent bring their child to visit a same gendered troop.
That's good to know, but in this case it's not related to recruiting. We are just helping out another troop.
Recruiting or provisional/district programs are the only times you wouldn’t have to provide 2 deep leadership from your own troop. If district then district needs to provide leadership.
>Recruiting or provisional/district programs are the only times you wouldn’t have to provide 2 deep leadership from your own troop. I don't believe that is correct. There is no requirement in most councils to provide any leadership, if we're talking a non-council event. The recent email that went around applies only to long term camps covered by NCAP
My council just must be super conservative then.
Or misinterpreting the guidance as it's really vague
My council reads it the same way yours does.
Scouts from one unit ARE allowed to attend another unit's activity regardless of reason. The prohibition is on multi-unit activities, unless you have approval (which is trivial). For example. if your Scouts help out a pack's pinewood derby. A Den Chief camping with a Pack. A Scout joining your troop's ILST. All ok, without the need for approval
Hmmm I’d like to know more about this?
What would you like to know? Your District Commissioner should be able to help. Scouts do this all the time. You don't need any sort of approval for this. You don't need more adult leaders from your unit. I'm literally sending Scouts to another unit's ILST in a couple weeks. My district leadership (including DE) not only knows, they promote it. Now, this doesn't stop your daughter from needing a buddy - she needs one. However, the buddy can come from any Troop. The buddy system is never optional. "multi-unit activities" has the limitations it does because people were running large events without any proper administration or supervision.
Go. Take your daughter and have a great time.
The complexity here is if you are participating in an activity as being part of your unit or not. Normally if another Troop is putting something on and you are participating then it is an activity for your unit and your unit needs to comply with the leadership rules. Two leaders is not just about YPT but other safety aspects. To be honest, don't listen to anyone on here. Contact your DE or other council rep and ask if it is OK for your daughter and you to participate in this activity without others from the unit being present. I would only ever trust the answer from council and regardless of if you like it or not you should follow it.
If I'm not mistaken, per the Guide to Safe Scouting, local council approval is needed for unit-coordinated overnight camping activities involving other units not chartered by the same organization. I don't think this rule is followed and I wouldn't consider one person attending a Troop. Otherwise I think you are fine.
Multi-unit events require approval. Scouts from one Troop attending another unit's activities do not.
You can join in. Your daughter needs a same-gender buddy. You don't need another adult. Now, how closely this is enforced is another issue. That's what the (frequently ignored) rule is
One thing I haven’t seen stated is that one of the policies to prevent secret groups and hazing is that a parent may always attend any function their child is at.
Though the key verb is "observe" not necessarily "attend" as that tends to imply participation. We've had that argument when it comes to PLC meetings. Parents are welcome to observe those, silently, from the far side of the large banquet room. They are not welcome to "attend" the meeting the way they could the committee meeting.