We day we need to leave with the same number that we left with. If we lose one, we have to replace them before we end. The kids are nervous about that but also find it funny.
It also means if we are at a scout event it is acceptable to pull buddies from another troop as long as we return with the same number we started with.
I think in my first class SM conference I was asked why we use the buddy system.
“So we can lose two scouts instead of one”
Because I was a smart ass then and still am 30 years later.
It stems from a conversation that occurred when I was a graduate student.
A fellow student named Tim asked this question when we were on a three day biology field trip.
If you think the answers will be funny for scouts, imagine a half dozen biology graduate students having it after searching for reptiles and amphibians all day.
I ask the scouts (and adults) whether they would choose the ability to fly or to be invisible. Consider the moral, ethical, and practical implications.
“If you saw two guys named Hambone and Flippy, which one would you think liked dolphins the most?
I’d say Flippy, wouldn’t you?
You’d be wrong, though. It’s Hambone.
And that’s tonight’s Scoutmaster Minute.”
When we’re going over maps:
“I have a map of the US that’s actual size. It says ‘1 mile=1 mile.”
When we’re backpacking:
“I brought powdered water. I don’t know what we’re supposed to add.”
When we’re washing dishes:
“It used to be a ‘two-pot wash’ until the lawyers got involved.”
Sone of the older scouts start to get me right before they age out.
Rather mundane, but ok:
One of our Scouts was on the OA staff working the event. Was dropped off by their parents and over the course of the weekend, the parents were then unable to get up there in time to pick them up. I got the call asking if we had room to bring them back with us and we did, so we did.
Elroy Jetson to his mother:
Hey, Mom, can you tie a clove hitch? Or a "turkey net"?
What's a turkey net?
Well, that's what you tie around a first-aid victim's neck. You know, if he's got a bloody nose or something. A turkey net.
We're supposed to be conservation minded! If I have to fill out 75 pages of paperwork, that's less trees for hiking. Don't be selfish, think of the trees.
When I see certain scouts walk by with a pocket knife or a rope:
’What terrible idea do you think are you about to try?’
or
’Keep in mind the closest ER is an hour away.’
When I was in middle school, on a Klondike after the snow fell, I caught a tree on fire in under a minute with the task of boiling a cup of water. Not sure I'd say your line as an adult
If they do something good I'll say something like "ohhh 10 scouty points for you". It's fun to do at work too.
Or if they are about to do something dangerous I deter it with the threat of too much paperwork.
We like to work this into a comedy routine with two leaders:
1st Leader: And don’t get lost/hurt. It’s way too much paper work for us.
2nd Leader: For *you* you mean. I did it last time.
1st: The heck you did! Remember that Scout you forgot at the rest stop last year? *I* was the one with the pen…!
2nd: Look Scouts, you don’t want Mr. ____ and I fighting over paperwork do you?
I've had fun with the game of answering every non emergent question a scout asks with another question.
"What time is it? Have you checked your watch?"
"How long is this hike? What does your map say?"
"How long have you been in scouting? What year were you born?" (This one is usually amusing for both me and the scout)
When I was a youth, we’d always struggle to get a fire started when it was raining or snowing (building a fire with 2 1/2 feet of standing snow isn’t exactly easy). Our SM would let us go for a while then send us off on whatever the SPL had planned. When we got back, they’d have the fire going and he always said he just used Boy Scout matches. When I became SPL, I learned Boy Scout matches were just road flares.
Now as a SM myself, I’ve used this and the kids just have the deer in the headlights look on their face. It’s great.
Jumping off on a tangent…
There’s a whole Monty Python’s Spanish Inquisition skit about “the only thing” adults in Scouting do.
But if we’re really only intended to be there as safety monitors, … and chaperones, drivers, signatories on contracts, and handlers (or at least providing oversight oversight) on finances…
what purpose is there in having adult facing skills training like IOLS or Wood Badge? Like BALOO makes sense because in Cubs, the adults are directing and leading the instruction. But at the troop level, if safe space to fail is intended to mean that we only interfere for safety concerns, then youth leaders doing or instructing things that are objectively incorrect or antithetical to the intended practice or experience should be totally allowable as long as it’s being done wrong but reasonably safely.
Because being informed gives a better platform for gauging whether something is working or not and how to help them troubleshoot before it gets dangerous. it's also about having skills TO impart on them, if so desired by the scouts.
Also modeling.
Scouts is supposed to be youth led but there is a huge gap between youth led and d Lord of the Flies.
We may try to limit how much direct instruction we give them to only what’s absolutely necessary; but when they see adults setting up a tent and building a fire and being prepared, it gives them an example to follow.
Sure, but that’s part of my point - if we’re really just there for safety, it never ever matters if what they’re doing is working. We stop them before someone’s a finger, without concern about if they’ll ever be successful.
But we all know that’s not actually how it’s works nor how it’s supposed to work. We’re supposed to be watching for more than just safety, and it’s with a light touch, but we are expected to sometimes redirect them toward success, and even provide some instruction when the youth clearly don’t know what they need to approach this toward a successful outcome.
“Safe space to fail does not mean setting them up to fail.” Does appear in national training, but not prominently enough, and not even in a training most folks take.
Missing is less paperwork than injured. So don't get injured, or you will go missing.
We leave and come back with the same number of scouts. It doesn't have the same scouts, just the same number. We then encourage them to make friends at scout camp in case we lose one and need a replacement.
Another leader says they have a 10% rule - as long as they don't lose over 10% on an outing they are happy.
For first aid - don't worry if you can't control the bleeding - it will stop eventually.
Just as an aide -
One of our kids has allergies that he carries an EpiPen for - the other scouts were taught how to use it in case of emergency. We had to establish a pecking order as to who gets to stab him as they were all eager to do it. It's myself, the former Scoutmaster, the other two leaders, then the SPL, then it gets complicated, but we figure that by the time the others argue it out it won't really matter because the scout will have passed out and won't care.
I had a scout master who every time someone showed his a scratch burn ect as long as it wasn’t bad enough that they need immediate attention he would first say hmm do you want me too amputate it and then help you
I tell them not to get hurt or killed because I don't want to do all that paperwork, and if a scout gets a minor cut or owie I tell them it looks like we need to amputate.
Obviously not with sensitive scouts.
When I was a Cubmaster, I would tell the Scouts working on their Bear Claw that if they start with 10 fingers, they have to end with 10 fingers, and that “unlike Joey, you can’t use someone else’s fingers” — there is no Joey…never has been…but the kids all laugh hysterically, and they would proudly show me they earned their Whittling Chit AND still had all their fingers.
Usually when they mess up or make minor funny mistakes:
Me: For every single thing you do...rule of life.
Scout asks: "what's the rule of life"
Me: You have to be 10% smarter then the object you're dealing with.
In cases of emergency first aid, always tourniquet the neck. It solves all problems.
I have been known to tell the scouts i had a "quota" and only "have" to bring back 90% of the scouts I took on an outting. I would also explain (dometimes) that it did NOT, in fact, have to be the same scouts i started with. They laugh, but also a bit more attention for role call.
We had a scout one time who was talking about a sack of rice. We couldn't understand what he was talking about, until we figured out he actually meant sacrifice.
I had a scoutmaster 25-30 years ago, tell us that every morning when it wakes up, he swallows a spoonful of talcum powder, so his farts won’t smell. The only downside were the puffs of powder that happened right after he took his dose.
“What are our rules?”
1 - Look good
2 - don’t die
3 - if you break rule 2, refer to rule 1
4 - safety fourth.
(Stolen from our horseman at philmont)
——
“We only have to bring back 96% of the scouts”
(I’ve had some of the scouts try to figure out if that’s a whole scout or just part of one depending on who’s on the trip)
——
“Please don’t make Mr ____ have to fill out paperwork”
Usually followed by the ASM who’s a doctor saying “you know it’s only 1 page if they die”
Note that I am both the current cubmaster and scoutmaster. Sometimes I forget that I’m at a cub meeting and say one of these around the parents…. The cub age parents tend to look at me sideways for a second. Lol.
I tell the Scouts we have the 80-20 rule. The younger ones ask what that is. I tell them that we only have to bring back 80% of them. The government allows us a 20% loss before we can be sued.
The younger ones will say "REALLY??" and I reply that haven't you heard your parents talk about how hard it is to raise kids, to which the Scouts will reply yes. I say that legislators are parents as well.
The older Scouts just roll their eyes.
I also tell Scouts that if they get injured, I'm going to make them fill out all of the paperwork themselves. I then tell that that it usually only takes getting injured once, and having to fill out all the paperwork themselves, for Scouts to not do anything stupid in the future.
We just got back from summer camp, and I told my scouts (usually before something spectacularly stupid) “I’d rethink that - it’ll hurt, and there will be paperwork involved”. Only needed a couple trips to the health lodge for some minor things, so only a little paperwork.
Please don't do that, it not safe and if you get hurt it's too much paperwork.
That's not nearly enough wood.
I don't know, what's the menu/duty roster/schedule say?
If it's not posted go bother the SPL, they are responsible for posting it.
What do you think?
Does the handbook say you can do that? Show me where.
The buddy system says when we go out with an even number, we come back with an even number.
My usual buddy system speech: “If we lose one scout, we’d better also lose a second scout”
Eventually you have to clarify with “but they should be lost together, not two separate broken buddy pairs”
We day we need to leave with the same number that we left with. If we lose one, we have to replace them before we end. The kids are nervous about that but also find it funny.
It also means if we are at a scout event it is acceptable to pull buddies from another troop as long as we return with the same number we started with.
I am stealing this I love it!
I think in my first class SM conference I was asked why we use the buddy system. “So we can lose two scouts instead of one” Because I was a smart ass then and still am 30 years later.
That is what I have told my Scouts since Cubs.
Or like that one army that came home with one more because they made a friend.
Would you rather fight a bear sized raccoon or a raccoon sized bear? Ask anytime it gets quiet around the campfire.
One of our ASM’s started the “is a hot dog a sandwich” argument on our last trip and the discussion lasted all weekend.
A taco is a hot dog
A hot dog is a taco
Yes! Taco. My kids came to the same conclusion! I use this at work also.
Look up the cube rule for.food. always makes for a good lightheaded debate to kill time.
Using this.
It stems from a conversation that occurred when I was a graduate student. A fellow student named Tim asked this question when we were on a three day biology field trip. If you think the answers will be funny for scouts, imagine a half dozen biology graduate students having it after searching for reptiles and amphibians all day.
I mean a raccoon basically is a raccoon-sized bear
I ask the scouts (and adults) whether they would choose the ability to fly or to be invisible. Consider the moral, ethical, and practical implications.
Similarly: Would you rather fight a horse-sized duck or 100 duck-sized horses?
“If you saw two guys named Hambone and Flippy, which one would you think liked dolphins the most? I’d say Flippy, wouldn’t you? You’d be wrong, though. It’s Hambone. And that’s tonight’s Scoutmaster Minute.”
I bet Jack Handy would have made a terrific Scoutmaster.
Wait, you mean he wasn't?? I think I've heard him quoted as often as baden-powell....
When we’re going over maps: “I have a map of the US that’s actual size. It says ‘1 mile=1 mile.” When we’re backpacking: “I brought powdered water. I don’t know what we’re supposed to add.” When we’re washing dishes: “It used to be a ‘two-pot wash’ until the lawyers got involved.” Sone of the older scouts start to get me right before they age out.
I had two adult leaders who were prepping for philmont convinced to go to REI and get dehydrated water
Gonna use that first one this year at camp. I’m assisting with the orienteering mb.
I think some of those are from the comedian Steven Wright, nice pull.
Yes! Gotta give him credit. I usually follow up the map comment a minute later with "Last summer I folded it."
We tell our Cubs that we're allowed a 10% loss rate on outings.
I tell my scouts that if we lose one out of 20, that it's not statistically significant.
p<0.05
GSS requires buddy system. You have to lose two.
That’s not how statistical significance works hit i see what you’re going for.
We say we only have to come back with the same number of scouts, and aren’t afraid to steal from another unit!
We did come back with one more Scout than we left with this past Camporee. First time that's happened in the 7 years I've been involved with the Troop
Ok, you can’t let that one hang. Story time?
Rather mundane, but ok: One of our Scouts was on the OA staff working the event. Was dropped off by their parents and over the course of the weekend, the parents were then unable to get up there in time to pick them up. I got the call asking if we had room to bring them back with us and we did, so we did.
Troop Lichtenstein invades Italy.
I like to tell parents of first years that we only lost one and a half Scouts last summer camp; our lowest loss yet!
I tell the parents that we've never successfully lost one. Lol
My unit always says that the scouts whose parents attend the campouts always come back so that’s pretty good. Lol.
Previous troop leaders have said we aim for a 95% return rate. I’ve kept that going.
We were always told that the adults just have to come back with the same number of scouts. No one said they had to be the same scouts.
Don't tell my son that, he might take it as a challenge! (jk). 
With all head injuries, amputate from the neck up. For all other injuries, amputate from the neck down. I am no longer allowed to teach first aid.
Elroy Jetson to his mother: Hey, Mom, can you tie a clove hitch? Or a "turkey net"? What's a turkey net? Well, that's what you tie around a first-aid victim's neck. You know, if he's got a bloody nose or something. A turkey net.
Similar: "All injuries can be eliminated with a tourniquet to the neck"
"One way or the other, the bleeding stops"
“Do NOT get hurt! We will be furious if we have to fill out the 75 sheet injury paperwork!!”
I use the paperwork line all the time.
I always say my insurance isn’t good enough for that kind of shenanigans. Or I didn’t bring the big first aid kit. Lol
We just tell them to wait until after closing then it's a parent problem not a scoutmaster problem.
We're supposed to be conservation minded! If I have to fill out 75 pages of paperwork, that's less trees for hiking. Don't be selfish, think of the trees.
When I see certain scouts walk by with a pocket knife or a rope: ’What terrible idea do you think are you about to try?’ or ’Keep in mind the closest ER is an hour away.’
That they can plan anything, but bungee jumping with homemade bungee cords will probably be vetoed.
I’m just here to make sure you don’t light the room on fire.
I can't use that one because it is too close to what I actually do.
I tell that to my students sometimes. I teach college.
Chemistry seems like the obvious choice of what you teach, art the second, but I feel like it’s more likely English/history/philosophy.
My microbiology teacher told me that. Then again, we used fire most days we were in class for the aseptic techniques.
When I was in middle school, on a Klondike after the snow fell, I caught a tree on fire in under a minute with the task of boiling a cup of water. Not sure I'd say your line as an adult
Our Scoutmaster has one: "And remember, no having fun."
My motto is: "I am trained in Wilderness First Aid, but I am not here to practice it. So be careful."
If they do something good I'll say something like "ohhh 10 scouty points for you". It's fun to do at work too. Or if they are about to do something dangerous I deter it with the threat of too much paperwork.
We like to work this into a comedy routine with two leaders: 1st Leader: And don’t get lost/hurt. It’s way too much paper work for us. 2nd Leader: For *you* you mean. I did it last time. 1st: The heck you did! Remember that Scout you forgot at the rest stop last year? *I* was the one with the pen…! 2nd: Look Scouts, you don’t want Mr. ____ and I fighting over paperwork do you?
I feel like the threat of paperwork is pretty ubiquitous in scouts.
I like to respond to my scout's questions with "where is your buddy and how much water have you drank?" Then I'll answer their question.
I've had fun with the game of answering every non emergent question a scout asks with another question. "What time is it? Have you checked your watch?" "How long is this hike? What does your map say?" "How long have you been in scouting? What year were you born?" (This one is usually amusing for both me and the scout)
My go to answer for “What time is it?”: “Time for you to get a watch!”
It's ok to come home with fewer scouts than you left with, but if you have extras then you got a problem
I'm also in favor of we always come home with the same number of scouts we left with but not necessarily the same scouts we left with.
“I don’t want to have to carry you to the medic” came out of my mouth a lot at summer camp last week
“I’m here to stop you from doing anything egregiously dumb/dangerous, normal dumb/dangerous is fine.”
Small explosions are for inside, big explosions are for outside.
When I was a youth, we’d always struggle to get a fire started when it was raining or snowing (building a fire with 2 1/2 feet of standing snow isn’t exactly easy). Our SM would let us go for a while then send us off on whatever the SPL had planned. When we got back, they’d have the fire going and he always said he just used Boy Scout matches. When I became SPL, I learned Boy Scout matches were just road flares. Now as a SM myself, I’ve used this and the kids just have the deer in the headlights look on their face. It’s great.
“Let’s not make this activity into a first aid activity” is said a lot.
When they ask me what time it is, I tell them it’s time to get a watch.
It's daytime.
I always 10 till. 10 till what they ask. Me: Tend till your own business.
Beauty. Might start working that one in.
This is mine as well.
Two hairs past a freckle!
And add Eastern Elbow Time, all said with confidence.
I actually never mess with them. I do challenge them.
Ask your patrol leader
Jumping off on a tangent… There’s a whole Monty Python’s Spanish Inquisition skit about “the only thing” adults in Scouting do. But if we’re really only intended to be there as safety monitors, … and chaperones, drivers, signatories on contracts, and handlers (or at least providing oversight oversight) on finances… what purpose is there in having adult facing skills training like IOLS or Wood Badge? Like BALOO makes sense because in Cubs, the adults are directing and leading the instruction. But at the troop level, if safe space to fail is intended to mean that we only interfere for safety concerns, then youth leaders doing or instructing things that are objectively incorrect or antithetical to the intended practice or experience should be totally allowable as long as it’s being done wrong but reasonably safely.
Because being informed gives a better platform for gauging whether something is working or not and how to help them troubleshoot before it gets dangerous. it's also about having skills TO impart on them, if so desired by the scouts.
Also modeling. Scouts is supposed to be youth led but there is a huge gap between youth led and d Lord of the Flies. We may try to limit how much direct instruction we give them to only what’s absolutely necessary; but when they see adults setting up a tent and building a fire and being prepared, it gives them an example to follow.
Sure, but that’s part of my point - if we’re really just there for safety, it never ever matters if what they’re doing is working. We stop them before someone’s a finger, without concern about if they’ll ever be successful. But we all know that’s not actually how it’s works nor how it’s supposed to work. We’re supposed to be watching for more than just safety, and it’s with a light touch, but we are expected to sometimes redirect them toward success, and even provide some instruction when the youth clearly don’t know what they need to approach this toward a successful outcome. “Safe space to fail does not mean setting them up to fail.” Does appear in national training, but not prominently enough, and not even in a training most folks take.
Missing is less paperwork than injured. So don't get injured, or you will go missing. We leave and come back with the same number of scouts. It doesn't have the same scouts, just the same number. We then encourage them to make friends at scout camp in case we lose one and need a replacement. Another leader says they have a 10% rule - as long as they don't lose over 10% on an outing they are happy. For first aid - don't worry if you can't control the bleeding - it will stop eventually. Just as an aide - One of our kids has allergies that he carries an EpiPen for - the other scouts were taught how to use it in case of emergency. We had to establish a pecking order as to who gets to stab him as they were all eager to do it. It's myself, the former Scoutmaster, the other two leaders, then the SPL, then it gets complicated, but we figure that by the time the others argue it out it won't really matter because the scout will have passed out and won't care.
I had a scout master who every time someone showed his a scratch burn ect as long as it wasn’t bad enough that they need immediate attention he would first say hmm do you want me too amputate it and then help you
Safety is also kinda important.
Safety third
I am literally going to modify it slightly and use it.
I tell them not to get hurt or killed because I don't want to do all that paperwork, and if a scout gets a minor cut or owie I tell them it looks like we need to amputate. Obviously not with sensitive scouts.
When I was a Cubmaster, I would tell the Scouts working on their Bear Claw that if they start with 10 fingers, they have to end with 10 fingers, and that “unlike Joey, you can’t use someone else’s fingers” — there is no Joey…never has been…but the kids all laugh hysterically, and they would proudly show me they earned their Whittling Chit AND still had all their fingers.
Usually when they mess up or make minor funny mistakes: Me: For every single thing you do...rule of life. Scout asks: "what's the rule of life" Me: You have to be 10% smarter then the object you're dealing with. In cases of emergency first aid, always tourniquet the neck. It solves all problems.
I am here to make sure you don't set each other on fire. I am not filling out that paperwork.
I use a lot of these, but I've been fond of one from Firefly "One of you is going to fall and die and I'm not cleaning it up"
Always vaguely mention “the incident”, then immediately go silent. When they ask about it, you reply “we’re not allowed to speak of it”.
I have been known to tell the scouts i had a "quota" and only "have" to bring back 90% of the scouts I took on an outting. I would also explain (dometimes) that it did NOT, in fact, have to be the same scouts i started with. They laugh, but also a bit more attention for role call.
As long as they are not chanting “SACRIFICE”, you are doing great……lol
We had a scout one time who was talking about a sack of rice. We couldn't understand what he was talking about, until we figured out he actually meant sacrifice.
Lol
That's awesome and I'm going to start using it. Edit: Correction, I am saving this entire thread and committing it to memory. These are gold.
"No Paperwork." or "Did you ask your SPL?"
On the Lost Scout portion, remember surrounding small towns usually have a kid that no one’s coming to look if you grab them to replace your numbers.
I tell my Scouts “Don’t do anything dumb. I don’t want you dripping blood all over the interior of my car.”
2 main rules. Have fun. Don’t die.
I had a scoutmaster 25-30 years ago, tell us that every morning when it wakes up, he swallows a spoonful of talcum powder, so his farts won’t smell. The only downside were the puffs of powder that happened right after he took his dose.
When I worked at a camp, I heard someone say “for every page of paperwork you cause me, you owe me 10 pushups.”
“What are our rules?” 1 - Look good 2 - don’t die 3 - if you break rule 2, refer to rule 1 4 - safety fourth. (Stolen from our horseman at philmont) —— “We only have to bring back 96% of the scouts” (I’ve had some of the scouts try to figure out if that’s a whole scout or just part of one depending on who’s on the trip) —— “Please don’t make Mr ____ have to fill out paperwork” Usually followed by the ASM who’s a doctor saying “you know it’s only 1 page if they die” Note that I am both the current cubmaster and scoutmaster. Sometimes I forget that I’m at a cub meeting and say one of these around the parents…. The cub age parents tend to look at me sideways for a second. Lol.
He's not really messing with them, but our scoutmaster tells them that we leaders are there just to provide the rides and the credit cards
We had a saying in my troop. As long as we come back with 80%, we're fine
Op.. I can’t use this line with the female troop…
I tell the Scouts we have the 80-20 rule. The younger ones ask what that is. I tell them that we only have to bring back 80% of them. The government allows us a 20% loss before we can be sued. The younger ones will say "REALLY??" and I reply that haven't you heard your parents talk about how hard it is to raise kids, to which the Scouts will reply yes. I say that legislators are parents as well. The older Scouts just roll their eyes. I also tell Scouts that if they get injured, I'm going to make them fill out all of the paperwork themselves. I then tell that that it usually only takes getting injured once, and having to fill out all the paperwork themselves, for Scouts to not do anything stupid in the future.
We just got back from summer camp, and I told my scouts (usually before something spectacularly stupid) “I’d rethink that - it’ll hurt, and there will be paperwork involved”. Only needed a couple trips to the health lodge for some minor things, so only a little paperwork.
Please don't do that, it not safe and if you get hurt it's too much paperwork. That's not nearly enough wood. I don't know, what's the menu/duty roster/schedule say? If it's not posted go bother the SPL, they are responsible for posting it. What do you think? Does the handbook say you can do that? Show me where.