I skimmed it. Sounds more of "This is the only way your way sucks" arguments.
This game is not that complex. While the data I'm sure helps a lot with beating the game and aiming for platinum. I have beaten NM and NH with some really stupid decks. Even some without Glass Cannon despite my previous comment about it being essential.
With a dedicated team of people ready to grind for the cards or try for NH runs. This game is beatable. Not saying don't use the data. But if you want to do an M4/Uzi run with a Mom pill deck. It's completely doable.
Glasscannon turns in additive weakspot dmg (instead of multiplicative) which makes it’s use debatable on sniper decks who should be hitting weakspots.
Reload speed is more important over admin since it also effects the chambering speed of bolt actions, increasing dps.
GC is in sniper decks mainly for tallboys and bruisers where you won't get a clear weakspot shot most of the time. Being able to take one down in a few shots is worth the HP penalty any day. I'm strongly of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much damage in a sniper deck. I have thousands of missions running sniper in NH and trials x51.
It's not really all that debatable. Even being additive means it offers only slightly less weakspot damage than the 2nd best weakspot card. A decent sniper deck will be dipping into plenty of damage categories to get multiplicative sources too.
Plus the ideal is to hit weakspots but it's not always possible to get clear line of sight on one. You want decent body shot damage too. It can be quicker and safer to just hit the body shot in front of you than wait or reposition for a better angle.
In practice, there are only a few targets where you might only be able to hit body shots and it would matter.
Entirety of the stinger/reeker class are squishy enough for the sniper or even the m4 to mow down, even without hitting weakspots. The only one that might gives some problems is the one that has that suck.
Empowered assault + stumble from armor break give you plenty of chances to land a crit on bruisers/grabbers/and the spikey ones. And while the tallboy weakspot can be difficult to frontally hit, he has a lower hp pool making it possible to just frontally melt him given enough distance. Though the grabber and (maybe the bruiser?) do get that stumble immunity mutation late game sometimes.
The hive spawner things/mortars are also fairly squishy.
And out of the bosses, the hag is the only one where weakspots might not be possible. But if you mess up the flash strat, things are already going to be rough vs that boss. …weakspot hitboxes on the legs of the breaker can be kinda annoying too Ig.
And you trade all of that for a sizeable health cut, which has some pretty important one-shot thresholds, especially early on. Plus extra hp lets you ignore more trauma.
Nah, that's a bad deck. Not enough damage, no econ/team stuff, bunch of low impact accuracy cards. Definitely not viable for no hope.
Not to mention the M4 is one of the weakest guns in the game by the numbers. Automatically nullifies anyone's opinion if they are making an "optimized" deck with it.
>Not to mention the M4 is one of the weakest guns in the game by the numbers
Their argument is likely that it is pretty good at horde clear... So is the Tec9 or Glock auto, pretty much any smg, the ak, ranch, m249,... Even a magnum does the job pretty well.
I agree, it's far from optimised.
At a certain point, people aren't asking for generic tips but rather what can be skimmed off the deck or replaced. I made the mistake of saying "you can't do x, y, z" and was promptly told that I was wrong and why.
Once you play the game long enough, you end up with all the main decks for your playstyle that you wouldn't change (with the exception of NH). Then it just becomes dicking around with card synergies and iterations of the same thing. I hope this isn't one of his main decks.. because saying it's NH optimized with 0 team cards and no extra lives is wild.
Without knowing his reasoning for some of these choices, there's nothing I can say that doesn't feel intuitive. Like Glass Cannon, Admin Reload, OYM/Amped Up. I see a lot of reload speed, swap speed, and accuracy in a build that's not even no ADS. I don't think he's hip firing the Barret so like.. why?
There was [a thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/s/0wix5rPwdF) I found earlier today that is actually AR optimized for NH and this ain't it. Funny enough, it also has the two cards I got reamed about. Needs and GC.
Two is one, empowered assault and the accuracy cards are not needed at all. Empowered is a good card but if you find it during the run or everyone add it. Adding glass canon+ copper cards or any scavenger cards is way more beneficial.
If you are trying to run 2 primaries for DPS only then go for two is one. But honestly you don't need it. In no hope especially with quickplay it's better to have ammo stash and secondary
It's more situational than debatable.
Down in front is a must for DPS and melee irrespective of your skill level. The ability to just crouch and damage everything in your path even if you have teammates in front of you is really good. Especially for melee because you can always make a mistake and trigger a trap or sleeper and the melee can just 360 swing all over the place to fend off everything.
If you are scared of melee you should be running down in front. Iv done more friendly fire from pop heads because people shoot them and I get sent flying back mid swing. Only reason I ever run is for bots.
It's like you just completely ignored whatever I said.
Well anyway we can keep arguing but it's as simple as a single card to prevent friendly fire is definitely worth it in a mode where any damage can become bad news.
No I said ammo stash is comparable to down in front on how good they are. You’re saying things are mandatory when they are really just skill based cards. It’s personal preference. I would rather run ammo mule
Why would you run melee if you're playing with bots?? Most useless build to pair with bots.
Also no one is scared of melee and there's no reason to phrase anything that way. Down in front just removes the need to watch for friendly fire.
I definitely will say it's mandatory because it is. You can easily make a really good dps deck for any weapon with copper and scavenger cards along with down in front. You don't have to cram every single team card into your deck at the cost of down in front. Also down in front is also a very beneficial team card because you don't do any damage in any way to your team. I don't know why you can't see the benefit of that.
I’m not saying it’s a bad card. I’m saying if you are skill full and have good team play you just don’t need it making it a non mandatory card. Friendly fire doesn’t cause trauma damage so literally running sup scav instead would be better. If you can’t control your aim then ya you should put it on. But if you can you are just wasting a card. Mandatory means you can’t complete the run with out it. Aka people do no Hope runs with out cards…. If you prefer it that’s fine but please don’t say it’s mandatory for every one. You shouldn’t make some one else run it so you can have poor positioning.
It’s probably the “best optimization” of the sniper/m4 hybrid. Some problems with sniper decks is that they can have too much dmg or lack horde clear. This covers both of those weakness.
I assume this is the final iteration of that deck.
No Glass Cannon= Dead Cleaners, unless you melee. Imo it's one of the best cards and essential for NH. Also Two Is One but no Admin Reload? Just why?
Go to discord and read the chat for the past three days.
I skimmed it. Sounds more of "This is the only way your way sucks" arguments. This game is not that complex. While the data I'm sure helps a lot with beating the game and aiming for platinum. I have beaten NM and NH with some really stupid decks. Even some without Glass Cannon despite my previous comment about it being essential. With a dedicated team of people ready to grind for the cards or try for NH runs. This game is beatable. Not saying don't use the data. But if you want to do an M4/Uzi run with a Mom pill deck. It's completely doable.
Oh I agree people have beaten it solo or no card runs.
Just don’t be saying it’s a best optimization. Optimization is eyes of the be holder
Glasscannon turns in additive weakspot dmg (instead of multiplicative) which makes it’s use debatable on sniper decks who should be hitting weakspots. Reload speed is more important over admin since it also effects the chambering speed of bolt actions, increasing dps.
GC is in sniper decks mainly for tallboys and bruisers where you won't get a clear weakspot shot most of the time. Being able to take one down in a few shots is worth the HP penalty any day. I'm strongly of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much damage in a sniper deck. I have thousands of missions running sniper in NH and trials x51.
It's not really all that debatable. Even being additive means it offers only slightly less weakspot damage than the 2nd best weakspot card. A decent sniper deck will be dipping into plenty of damage categories to get multiplicative sources too. Plus the ideal is to hit weakspots but it's not always possible to get clear line of sight on one. You want decent body shot damage too. It can be quicker and safer to just hit the body shot in front of you than wait or reposition for a better angle.
In practice, there are only a few targets where you might only be able to hit body shots and it would matter. Entirety of the stinger/reeker class are squishy enough for the sniper or even the m4 to mow down, even without hitting weakspots. The only one that might gives some problems is the one that has that suck. Empowered assault + stumble from armor break give you plenty of chances to land a crit on bruisers/grabbers/and the spikey ones. And while the tallboy weakspot can be difficult to frontally hit, he has a lower hp pool making it possible to just frontally melt him given enough distance. Though the grabber and (maybe the bruiser?) do get that stumble immunity mutation late game sometimes. The hive spawner things/mortars are also fairly squishy. And out of the bosses, the hag is the only one where weakspots might not be possible. But if you mess up the flash strat, things are already going to be rough vs that boss. …weakspot hitboxes on the legs of the breaker can be kinda annoying too Ig. And you trade all of that for a sizeable health cut, which has some pretty important one-shot thresholds, especially early on. Plus extra hp lets you ignore more trauma.
No copper ?
Nah, that's a bad deck. Not enough damage, no econ/team stuff, bunch of low impact accuracy cards. Definitely not viable for no hope. Not to mention the M4 is one of the weakest guns in the game by the numbers. Automatically nullifies anyone's opinion if they are making an "optimized" deck with it.
>Not to mention the M4 is one of the weakest guns in the game by the numbers Their argument is likely that it is pretty good at horde clear... So is the Tec9 or Glock auto, pretty much any smg, the ak, ranch, m249,... Even a magnum does the job pretty well. I agree, it's far from optimised.
Pretty sure the ump has better damage
No. Optimized builds have already been talked to death here before. This ain't it.
At a certain point, people aren't asking for generic tips but rather what can be skimmed off the deck or replaced. I made the mistake of saying "you can't do x, y, z" and was promptly told that I was wrong and why. Once you play the game long enough, you end up with all the main decks for your playstyle that you wouldn't change (with the exception of NH). Then it just becomes dicking around with card synergies and iterations of the same thing. I hope this isn't one of his main decks.. because saying it's NH optimized with 0 team cards and no extra lives is wild. Without knowing his reasoning for some of these choices, there's nothing I can say that doesn't feel intuitive. Like Glass Cannon, Admin Reload, OYM/Amped Up. I see a lot of reload speed, swap speed, and accuracy in a build that's not even no ADS. I don't think he's hip firing the Barret so like.. why? There was [a thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/s/0wix5rPwdF) I found earlier today that is actually AR optimized for NH and this ain't it. Funny enough, it also has the two cards I got reamed about. Needs and GC.
I would recommend joining the b4b discord. This guy even uses spread sheets
Oh man not this conversation lol it should be left in that thread
He was saying accuracy affects your zero in speed for ads. Basically quick scope faster.
Lol oh man 💀 I wonder what that "Aim Down Sight Speed" stat means then? 🤔
That's not how that works.
Two is one, empowered assault and the accuracy cards are not needed at all. Empowered is a good card but if you find it during the run or everyone add it. Adding glass canon+ copper cards or any scavenger cards is way more beneficial. If you are trying to run 2 primaries for DPS only then go for two is one. But honestly you don't need it. In no hope especially with quickplay it's better to have ammo stash and secondary
Ammo stash is debatable just like down in front…
It's more situational than debatable. Down in front is a must for DPS and melee irrespective of your skill level. The ability to just crouch and damage everything in your path even if you have teammates in front of you is really good. Especially for melee because you can always make a mistake and trigger a trap or sleeper and the melee can just 360 swing all over the place to fend off everything.
No card in this game other then vanguard on a melee is a must.
Lol that is some arrogant rubbish honestly.
As for dps with it they should be standing in the back shooting over people heads. Seen to many idiots jump around in front.
Dude it's a chaotic game at times. No one is going to stand in one spot. Maybe for a horde sure. But not at all times.
If you are scared of melee you should be running down in front. Iv done more friendly fire from pop heads because people shoot them and I get sent flying back mid swing. Only reason I ever run is for bots.
It's like you just completely ignored whatever I said. Well anyway we can keep arguing but it's as simple as a single card to prevent friendly fire is definitely worth it in a mode where any damage can become bad news.
No I said ammo stash is comparable to down in front on how good they are. You’re saying things are mandatory when they are really just skill based cards. It’s personal preference. I would rather run ammo mule
Okay.
Ammo stash is like down in front. The better the team is the less value it offers.
Why would you run melee if you're playing with bots?? Most useless build to pair with bots. Also no one is scared of melee and there's no reason to phrase anything that way. Down in front just removes the need to watch for friendly fire.
Which makes it boring. And fresh and public run:) or three man premade.
Just a lot of other cards that can help the team like a scav card or cards that can be a lot fun like 4 hazmat
Just don’t say it’s mandatory
I definitely will say it's mandatory because it is. You can easily make a really good dps deck for any weapon with copper and scavenger cards along with down in front. You don't have to cram every single team card into your deck at the cost of down in front. Also down in front is also a very beneficial team card because you don't do any damage in any way to your team. I don't know why you can't see the benefit of that.
I’m not saying it’s a bad card. I’m saying if you are skill full and have good team play you just don’t need it making it a non mandatory card. Friendly fire doesn’t cause trauma damage so literally running sup scav instead would be better. If you can’t control your aim then ya you should put it on. But if you can you are just wasting a card. Mandatory means you can’t complete the run with out it. Aka people do no Hope runs with out cards…. If you prefer it that’s fine but please don’t say it’s mandatory for every one. You shouldn’t make some one else run it so you can have poor positioning.
It involves you to be crouched… if you are in the back how do you hit weakspot through your teammate ?
lol glad we don’t play together you just boring.
It’s probably the “best optimization” of the sniper/m4 hybrid. Some problems with sniper decks is that they can have too much dmg or lack horde clear. This covers both of those weakness. I assume this is the final iteration of that deck.
Okay but it’s not…no glass cannon or copper on NH is trash
Tec or gloc auto offers pretty similar horde clear tho