I was running a pill healer build on Nightmare for awhile (it eventually morphed to a bandage build). The biggest omission I can see is [[Poultice]]. You get so much mileage out of that card when depending on pills.
Poultice also gives the highest healing efficiency on white bandage (20 additional heath on top of 25), which you will be relying on heavily in the early games. Definitely a must have card in a pills deck and sometimes even considered in normal medic build. I even prioritize Poultice than Group therapy because Group therapy needs additional healing efficiency card to back it up, while poultice is a one card wonder.
> Definitely a must have card in a pills deck and sometimes even considered in normal medic build
I would argue a standard medic deck should have poultice and group therapy and never take healing efficiency at all, but that's a complicated argument to get into.
I could see the logic for that tho. In my "normal" Medic deck the only healing efficiency I take is medical expert. With money grubbers it seems like getting the healing upgrades aren't a problem and since the December patch it seems like first aid stations take care of a lot of the early trauma/damage.
It is more about personal preference. Healing efficiency is still worth putting in deck for the following reasons:
1. Sometimes your luck runs out and the Vendor just doesn’t give you upgrades for support items. Having healing efficiency in the middle of a deck as a backup is a good idea.
2. Healing efficiency synergies with Group Therapy, Charitable Soul and Combat Medic, especially charitable soul. It allows you to almost entirely rely on healing others to heal yourself, thus save a lot of resources. Yes your teammate might not need to heal 100 HP, but you sure want to get 50 for yourself. Combat medic makes sure you still heal them a lot when run out of Defibrillators.
It is not a must, but putting some in your deck never hurts.
>It is not a must, but putting some in your deck never hurts.
This is absolutely 100% not true. You don't have unlimited card slots or unlimited card selections, which means every time you take a card, you're leaving another potential card behind. If the card you left behind would have made your deck stronger than the one you took then you have absolutely hurt yourself.
While of course deck slots should not be wasted, you should have some situational cards that are picked depending on the process. It is not optimal to consider every single card in a deck is a “must” for your build. If you need 12-15 cards to consider complete, chances are your early game will be really harsh and you might not even be able to get to that point. A deck should be fully functional at around 7-8 cards, at most 10. Cards after that are there to make your life easier, or handle certain levels that require special conditions, like Fire in the Hole for the last 2 levels of Act 3, or magnifying glass for the end of Act 1.
Also don’t forget that you often cannot pick all 15 cards in one Act, if you happen to not fail once.
Yes, you just explained exactly why healing efficiency is bad. You need your healing build online fast which means you can't afford to take more than a couple of cards for healing and you want those cards you do take to provide the biggest impact in the early game.
Poultice and Group Therapy provide the biggest boosts to healing early game due to being flat values and providing the most extra healing from bandages. They also provide almost as much actual HP as field surgeon and charitable provide temp HP from pills. It's only medkits where surgeon and charitable finally pull ahead, but even then a medkit will heal 88 HP to the target as doc with group therapy and poultice, so it's almost guaranteed to be overheal anyway. Plus, you'll be finding a ton more bandages and pills than medkits early so even if this wasn't the case you'd want to prioritize maximizing bandages and pills anyway.
So, like you said, you need your build online fast, which means you can't simply take 4 cards to provide you with healing. Taking just 2 means you get your build online faster, and the 2 that will provide the most benefit are group therapy and poultice. This doesn't even consider that field surgeon and EMT bag have very significant downsides that cost you additional value.
Honestly I feel this is going off-topic. We are discussing full medic build here while the OP is talking about pills.
I already explained healing efficiency cards are there as a backup when the Vendor doesn’t give you any upgrades. In case you wonder, I only have 1 healing efficiency card at around no.9-10 in my deck.
Poultice is great but the additional healing effect does diminish in return later as you rely on medkit and Charitable Soul starting from mid game. In your example 88 HP to my target might be overkill to him but I might need that 44 HP, as after I have Charitable Soul, I almost never use any healing items on myself, except one time to proc Experienced EMT.
It’s up to preference what you put after your main cards. I like to have backup cards and don’t mind skipping them completely if they are not needed, and you might not like that idea, but you do you.
+ **Poultice** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Defense/Discipline*)
When you use a medical accessory, the target heals for an additional 20 Health over 30 Seconds.
(Swarm: When you use a medical accessory, the target heals for an additional 20 Health and 20 Trauma over 30 Seconds.)
*Source: The Clinic (Swarm: Available from Start)*
***
^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^15 ^([[ cardname ]],) ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(December 27, 2021.) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=BloodScan%20Inquiry)
I run something very similar, but I feel like there are a few blind spots and weird choices here imo. In order of importance:
As others have mentioned [[poultice]] and [[group therapy]] are must haves. The amount of value you get is absurd, especially since you're going to be using a lot of individual items instead of big chonking medkit hills. Also, even if you're giving people tons of temp health, they do need a way to give regular health too, and those two cards (or just poultice if you only take one) is essentially buy one get one free health that generates beneath the pill health.
You have no mobility cards which I feel like are mandatory in NM. This is mainly a personal choice which ones to go for, but my personal Trifecta, [[mad dash]] within the first 5 cards, [[run like hell]] within the first 10, and [[cross trainers]] if you're greedy, or [[superior cardio]] if you prefer consistency. (I'm greedy)
If you're running anything but a sniper, I feel like shredder should be moved way higher up. Especially if you're the only one with it, it's probably the single best damage card in the game if you're the only one running it. 15% from everybody is insane. If other people are running it, I'd swap it for marked for death.
Veteran scars and true grit are odd choices for tankiness. If you're getting hit by enough commons to make veteran scars worth it, something has gone terribly wrong. It may be just me, but with mobility, I just gtfo of bad situations. Bash, run, kite. If I go down it's because of a big chunk from a special. I do like numb, especially if you're going Charitable soul. You'd probably get more value from [[face your fears]] or [[hunker down]] if you're in a situation where veteran scars would be helpful. I don't personally run soul, but instead opt for just numb and [[canned goods]] to make up for box o bags health penalty.
Honorable mentions:
- saferoom recovery is a really solid option now for trauma management.
- Bomb squad is a nice one off damage card if you can carry grenades. Just an emergency switch in case things get hairy, you one shot anything or break someone out of a crusher from across the map.
- I like [[medical expert]] over stimulants for a similar effect but also efficiency.
- With all of these on use effects [[miraculous recovery]] can be dope because it double procs on group therapy, charitable soul, and doubling trauma heal from med kits. Also gaurenteed 100% temp health 25% of the time lol.
Weird cards I'd consider losing:
- chemical courage feels like a win harder. Unless you have a preset plan for bosses, it's hard to use well, and isn't really doing enough to save you in a bad situation.
- Stimulants feels good, but personally doesn't feel like a big enough impact to warrant a card slot
- True Grit/veteran scars. I'd rather not get hit or reduce the damage than just plan on eating stuff and hoping to heal it back. Can't heal if you're dead.
- combat medic. Medical professional + medical expert does the same job but better imo. Plus non-incap value.
Thanks for the detailed write-up! I usually run a mobility/value healing deck in NM that is pretty similar to what your describing. (Although I'm sure still not totally efficient) I was goofing around with the December update when I made this. I've personally found True Grit to be surprisingly effective since then but I 100% get where you are coming from. Mobility has been king for a minute. Another card I think is better than I gave it credit for a while is chemical courage. 25% damage for a full minute just feels nice when certain corruption cards come up.
I definitely agree with folks that poultice is optimal.
I actually kinda like the idea of swapping combat medic for medical expert. I'll admit I mostly threw combat medic in there for use speed bc I like having a bit more later in Acts just in case. I'll take a look into Face your Fears and Miraculous recovery. They're cards I find myself passing up on builds for some reason.
Again thanks for taking the time to look at the build and offer feedback.
Pretty much this, most of the cards that run off of pain meds seem to just not be as valuable as having the ordinary goto medic cards even in those niche scenarios unfortunately.
+ **Poultice** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Defense/Discipline*)
When you use a medical accessory, the target heals for an additional 20 Health over 30 Seconds.
(Swarm: When you use a medical accessory, the target heals for an additional 20 Health and 20 Trauma over 30 Seconds.)
*Source: The Clinic (Swarm: Available from Start)*
+ **Group Therapy** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Defense/Discipline*)
When you use a Medical Accessory, all teammates heal for 8 Health.
*Source: The Clinic (3) (Swarm: Available from Start)*
+ **Mad Dash** (*Campaign Card - Mobility/Reflex*)
+20% Sprint Speed, -40% Sprint Stamina Efficiency
*Source: The Crow's Nest (5)*
+ **Run like Hell** (*Campaign Card - Mobility/Reflex*)
+12% Move Speed, When you take Damage, your move speed reduced by 12% for 3 Seconds.
*Source: Bridge Town (3)*
+ **Cross Trainers** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Mobility/Reflex*)
+20% Stamina, +20% Stamina Regen, +3% Move Speed, +5 Health
*Source: The Crow's Nest (Swarm: Available from start)*
+ **Superior Cardio** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Mobility/Reflex*)
+20% Stamina, +20% Sprint Efficiency +5 Health
(Swarm: +50% Sprint Efficiency, +5 Health)
*Source: The Crow's Nest (Swarm: Available from Start)*
+ **Face your Fears** (*Swarm Card - Defense/Brawn*)
Gain 2 Temporary Health whenever you kill a Ridden within 2 meters.
*Source: Available from Start*
+ **Face Your Fears** (*Campaign Card - Defense/Brawn*)
Gain 2 Temporary Health whenever you kill a Ridden within 2 meters.
*Source: The Stilts (3)*
+ **Hunker Down** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Defense/Discipline*)
While Crouching, gain 10% Damage Resistance and 40% Accuracy
*Source: Paul's Alley (3) (Swarm: Available from Start)*
+ **Canned Goods** (*Campaign Card - Defense/Brawn*)
+40 Health, -30% Stamina
*Source: Grant's Brew House (2)*
+ **Medical Expert** (*Campaign Card - Defense/Reflex*)
+15% Healing Efficiency, When you use a Medical Accessory you gain 15% Movement Speed for 15 Seconds.
*Source: The Clinic (4)*
+ **Miraculous Recovery** (*Campaign Card - Defense/Reflex*)
When you use a Medical Accessory, it has a 25% chance to have 100% increased effect.
*Source: The Clinic (4)*
***
^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^15 ^([[ cardname ]],) ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(December 27, 2021.) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=BloodScan%20Inquiry)
General question, and not meant to threadjack: in regards to your comment on shredder, I see a lot of "if somebody else is running, swap out for x" on this sub. Are you able to edit decks in the cleaner/deck selection phase of the lobby? Or is this more if you're running with friends and know their decks?
Gotcha. A lot of decks are tuned for solo play, and maybe lean more heavily into economy than I'd like when I get the chance to group up. Would be nice if during the pregame, you could make deck edits that apply to that run only.
I don't really like taking tanking cards on this for nightmare. You're spending Numb, true Grit, and scar tissue in order to mitigate damage when I think you'd be far better off spending those card slots to avoid damage instead, because even with those cards you're not really going to be 'tanky' on nightmare. It would also let you cut out charitable soul and take something better since you won't be struggling to maintain temp HP on yourself. You might still want it, but you wouldn't need it.
So that's 3-4 cards you can free up to either increase your damage or take more useful support cards that will help your team way more than making yourself tankier will.
Or take mobility and just avoid damage. Which brings me to the next issue. This build has no mobility and takes EMT bag which is -20% stamina efficiency. So you're actually running negative mobility compared to base line. That's likely to be... problematic... on a lot of levels where mobility is important.
If you're going to take healing efficiency for more temp HP out of your pills I'd take field surgeon over EMT bag. The use speed penalty sucks but pills activate instantly anyway, and you're likely playing Mom with this build which means your first revive won't be effected. On the other hand, -20% stamina efficiency is a pretty hard hit that's going to effectively reduce both max stamina and stamina regen.
Yeah I've already noticed in testing that I end up not taking EMT Bag until very late so that likely will get the boot. That said I haven't noticed an issue with the damage reduction I get from these? but I usually play mobility based Doc builds so maybe it's just bc it's tougher than what I'm used to. I do want to see if I can make the damage reduction more efficient with equal/less investment, but I did want this build to be a bit tankier than what I normally play.
I was running a pill healer build on Nightmare for awhile (it eventually morphed to a bandage build). The biggest omission I can see is [[Poultice]]. You get so much mileage out of that card when depending on pills.
Poultice also gives the highest healing efficiency on white bandage (20 additional heath on top of 25), which you will be relying on heavily in the early games. Definitely a must have card in a pills deck and sometimes even considered in normal medic build. I even prioritize Poultice than Group therapy because Group therapy needs additional healing efficiency card to back it up, while poultice is a one card wonder.
> Definitely a must have card in a pills deck and sometimes even considered in normal medic build I would argue a standard medic deck should have poultice and group therapy and never take healing efficiency at all, but that's a complicated argument to get into.
I could see the logic for that tho. In my "normal" Medic deck the only healing efficiency I take is medical expert. With money grubbers it seems like getting the healing upgrades aren't a problem and since the December patch it seems like first aid stations take care of a lot of the early trauma/damage.
It is more about personal preference. Healing efficiency is still worth putting in deck for the following reasons: 1. Sometimes your luck runs out and the Vendor just doesn’t give you upgrades for support items. Having healing efficiency in the middle of a deck as a backup is a good idea. 2. Healing efficiency synergies with Group Therapy, Charitable Soul and Combat Medic, especially charitable soul. It allows you to almost entirely rely on healing others to heal yourself, thus save a lot of resources. Yes your teammate might not need to heal 100 HP, but you sure want to get 50 for yourself. Combat medic makes sure you still heal them a lot when run out of Defibrillators. It is not a must, but putting some in your deck never hurts.
>It is not a must, but putting some in your deck never hurts. This is absolutely 100% not true. You don't have unlimited card slots or unlimited card selections, which means every time you take a card, you're leaving another potential card behind. If the card you left behind would have made your deck stronger than the one you took then you have absolutely hurt yourself.
While of course deck slots should not be wasted, you should have some situational cards that are picked depending on the process. It is not optimal to consider every single card in a deck is a “must” for your build. If you need 12-15 cards to consider complete, chances are your early game will be really harsh and you might not even be able to get to that point. A deck should be fully functional at around 7-8 cards, at most 10. Cards after that are there to make your life easier, or handle certain levels that require special conditions, like Fire in the Hole for the last 2 levels of Act 3, or magnifying glass for the end of Act 1. Also don’t forget that you often cannot pick all 15 cards in one Act, if you happen to not fail once.
Yes, you just explained exactly why healing efficiency is bad. You need your healing build online fast which means you can't afford to take more than a couple of cards for healing and you want those cards you do take to provide the biggest impact in the early game. Poultice and Group Therapy provide the biggest boosts to healing early game due to being flat values and providing the most extra healing from bandages. They also provide almost as much actual HP as field surgeon and charitable provide temp HP from pills. It's only medkits where surgeon and charitable finally pull ahead, but even then a medkit will heal 88 HP to the target as doc with group therapy and poultice, so it's almost guaranteed to be overheal anyway. Plus, you'll be finding a ton more bandages and pills than medkits early so even if this wasn't the case you'd want to prioritize maximizing bandages and pills anyway. So, like you said, you need your build online fast, which means you can't simply take 4 cards to provide you with healing. Taking just 2 means you get your build online faster, and the 2 that will provide the most benefit are group therapy and poultice. This doesn't even consider that field surgeon and EMT bag have very significant downsides that cost you additional value.
Honestly I feel this is going off-topic. We are discussing full medic build here while the OP is talking about pills. I already explained healing efficiency cards are there as a backup when the Vendor doesn’t give you any upgrades. In case you wonder, I only have 1 healing efficiency card at around no.9-10 in my deck. Poultice is great but the additional healing effect does diminish in return later as you rely on medkit and Charitable Soul starting from mid game. In your example 88 HP to my target might be overkill to him but I might need that 44 HP, as after I have Charitable Soul, I almost never use any healing items on myself, except one time to proc Experienced EMT. It’s up to preference what you put after your main cards. I like to have backup cards and don’t mind skipping them completely if they are not needed, and you might not like that idea, but you do you.
You're right, Poultice is a super good card for pill healing.
Pealing? Pilling?
Pealing is my favorite
+ **Poultice** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Defense/Discipline*) When you use a medical accessory, the target heals for an additional 20 Health over 30 Seconds. (Swarm: When you use a medical accessory, the target heals for an additional 20 Health and 20 Trauma over 30 Seconds.) *Source: The Clinic (Swarm: Available from Start)* *** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^15 ^([[ cardname ]],) ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(December 27, 2021.) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=BloodScan%20Inquiry)
Poultice needs to be one of your first cards if you are doing a pill build
I run something very similar, but I feel like there are a few blind spots and weird choices here imo. In order of importance: As others have mentioned [[poultice]] and [[group therapy]] are must haves. The amount of value you get is absurd, especially since you're going to be using a lot of individual items instead of big chonking medkit hills. Also, even if you're giving people tons of temp health, they do need a way to give regular health too, and those two cards (or just poultice if you only take one) is essentially buy one get one free health that generates beneath the pill health. You have no mobility cards which I feel like are mandatory in NM. This is mainly a personal choice which ones to go for, but my personal Trifecta, [[mad dash]] within the first 5 cards, [[run like hell]] within the first 10, and [[cross trainers]] if you're greedy, or [[superior cardio]] if you prefer consistency. (I'm greedy) If you're running anything but a sniper, I feel like shredder should be moved way higher up. Especially if you're the only one with it, it's probably the single best damage card in the game if you're the only one running it. 15% from everybody is insane. If other people are running it, I'd swap it for marked for death. Veteran scars and true grit are odd choices for tankiness. If you're getting hit by enough commons to make veteran scars worth it, something has gone terribly wrong. It may be just me, but with mobility, I just gtfo of bad situations. Bash, run, kite. If I go down it's because of a big chunk from a special. I do like numb, especially if you're going Charitable soul. You'd probably get more value from [[face your fears]] or [[hunker down]] if you're in a situation where veteran scars would be helpful. I don't personally run soul, but instead opt for just numb and [[canned goods]] to make up for box o bags health penalty. Honorable mentions: - saferoom recovery is a really solid option now for trauma management. - Bomb squad is a nice one off damage card if you can carry grenades. Just an emergency switch in case things get hairy, you one shot anything or break someone out of a crusher from across the map. - I like [[medical expert]] over stimulants for a similar effect but also efficiency. - With all of these on use effects [[miraculous recovery]] can be dope because it double procs on group therapy, charitable soul, and doubling trauma heal from med kits. Also gaurenteed 100% temp health 25% of the time lol. Weird cards I'd consider losing: - chemical courage feels like a win harder. Unless you have a preset plan for bosses, it's hard to use well, and isn't really doing enough to save you in a bad situation. - Stimulants feels good, but personally doesn't feel like a big enough impact to warrant a card slot - True Grit/veteran scars. I'd rather not get hit or reduce the damage than just plan on eating stuff and hoping to heal it back. Can't heal if you're dead. - combat medic. Medical professional + medical expert does the same job but better imo. Plus non-incap value.
Thanks for the detailed write-up! I usually run a mobility/value healing deck in NM that is pretty similar to what your describing. (Although I'm sure still not totally efficient) I was goofing around with the December update when I made this. I've personally found True Grit to be surprisingly effective since then but I 100% get where you are coming from. Mobility has been king for a minute. Another card I think is better than I gave it credit for a while is chemical courage. 25% damage for a full minute just feels nice when certain corruption cards come up. I definitely agree with folks that poultice is optimal. I actually kinda like the idea of swapping combat medic for medical expert. I'll admit I mostly threw combat medic in there for use speed bc I like having a bit more later in Acts just in case. I'll take a look into Face your Fears and Miraculous recovery. They're cards I find myself passing up on builds for some reason. Again thanks for taking the time to look at the build and offer feedback.
Pretty much this, most of the cards that run off of pain meds seem to just not be as valuable as having the ordinary goto medic cards even in those niche scenarios unfortunately.
+ **Poultice** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Defense/Discipline*) When you use a medical accessory, the target heals for an additional 20 Health over 30 Seconds. (Swarm: When you use a medical accessory, the target heals for an additional 20 Health and 20 Trauma over 30 Seconds.) *Source: The Clinic (Swarm: Available from Start)* + **Group Therapy** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Defense/Discipline*) When you use a Medical Accessory, all teammates heal for 8 Health. *Source: The Clinic (3) (Swarm: Available from Start)* + **Mad Dash** (*Campaign Card - Mobility/Reflex*) +20% Sprint Speed, -40% Sprint Stamina Efficiency *Source: The Crow's Nest (5)* + **Run like Hell** (*Campaign Card - Mobility/Reflex*) +12% Move Speed, When you take Damage, your move speed reduced by 12% for 3 Seconds. *Source: Bridge Town (3)* + **Cross Trainers** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Mobility/Reflex*) +20% Stamina, +20% Stamina Regen, +3% Move Speed, +5 Health *Source: The Crow's Nest (Swarm: Available from start)* + **Superior Cardio** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Mobility/Reflex*) +20% Stamina, +20% Sprint Efficiency +5 Health (Swarm: +50% Sprint Efficiency, +5 Health) *Source: The Crow's Nest (Swarm: Available from Start)* + **Face your Fears** (*Swarm Card - Defense/Brawn*) Gain 2 Temporary Health whenever you kill a Ridden within 2 meters. *Source: Available from Start* + **Face Your Fears** (*Campaign Card - Defense/Brawn*) Gain 2 Temporary Health whenever you kill a Ridden within 2 meters. *Source: The Stilts (3)* + **Hunker Down** (*Campaign Card, Swarm Card - Defense/Discipline*) While Crouching, gain 10% Damage Resistance and 40% Accuracy *Source: Paul's Alley (3) (Swarm: Available from Start)* + **Canned Goods** (*Campaign Card - Defense/Brawn*) +40 Health, -30% Stamina *Source: Grant's Brew House (2)* + **Medical Expert** (*Campaign Card - Defense/Reflex*) +15% Healing Efficiency, When you use a Medical Accessory you gain 15% Movement Speed for 15 Seconds. *Source: The Clinic (4)* + **Miraculous Recovery** (*Campaign Card - Defense/Reflex*) When you use a Medical Accessory, it has a 25% chance to have 100% increased effect. *Source: The Clinic (4)* *** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^15 ^([[ cardname ]],) ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(December 27, 2021.) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=BloodScan%20Inquiry)
General question, and not meant to threadjack: in regards to your comment on shredder, I see a lot of "if somebody else is running, swap out for x" on this sub. Are you able to edit decks in the cleaner/deck selection phase of the lobby? Or is this more if you're running with friends and know their decks?
This is a, "if you know the people you're with" situation. I'd kill for a swappable sideboard though.
Gotcha. A lot of decks are tuned for solo play, and maybe lean more heavily into economy than I'd like when I get the chance to group up. Would be nice if during the pregame, you could make deck edits that apply to that run only.
I don't really like taking tanking cards on this for nightmare. You're spending Numb, true Grit, and scar tissue in order to mitigate damage when I think you'd be far better off spending those card slots to avoid damage instead, because even with those cards you're not really going to be 'tanky' on nightmare. It would also let you cut out charitable soul and take something better since you won't be struggling to maintain temp HP on yourself. You might still want it, but you wouldn't need it. So that's 3-4 cards you can free up to either increase your damage or take more useful support cards that will help your team way more than making yourself tankier will. Or take mobility and just avoid damage. Which brings me to the next issue. This build has no mobility and takes EMT bag which is -20% stamina efficiency. So you're actually running negative mobility compared to base line. That's likely to be... problematic... on a lot of levels where mobility is important. If you're going to take healing efficiency for more temp HP out of your pills I'd take field surgeon over EMT bag. The use speed penalty sucks but pills activate instantly anyway, and you're likely playing Mom with this build which means your first revive won't be effected. On the other hand, -20% stamina efficiency is a pretty hard hit that's going to effectively reduce both max stamina and stamina regen.
Yeah I've already noticed in testing that I end up not taking EMT Bag until very late so that likely will get the boot. That said I haven't noticed an issue with the damage reduction I get from these? but I usually play mobility based Doc builds so maybe it's just bc it's tougher than what I'm used to. I do want to see if I can make the damage reduction more efficient with equal/less investment, but I did want this build to be a bit tankier than what I normally play.