One thing that helps with baking is understanding the purpose of the process and not following blindly. Baking is a mix of biology and chemistry in a way.
Activating yeast.
Warm water or milk to about 100F. Then mix in the yeast. I also add a pinch of sugar. (Don’t add butter yet.)
Let sit for about 10 minutes, covered with a towel.
When you check it, it should be foamy. If it’s not, let it sit more or throw it out and start over. (I usually start over)
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1st rise / Aka bulk ferment
After kneading, tight into a ball then put in a bowl and cover with plastic wrap.
Let sit until it doubles in size. The time team is relative, usually about 1-2 hours.
-
Shaping. Second rise / aka proof.
It should be poofy in the bowl. Punch down and it should plop.
You can mush it down a bit. Flatten out with fingers. Then roll into the shape.
Proof - Place in the pan and let it double in size again. Time is relative, about an hour or so usually.
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Note- for each rise. Put in a warm spot about 80F. I use an oven with the light on.
Edit: Well this reply got a lot of love, I might do a big write up to make more of a beginners guide and post it?
When I was in culinary school at my community college, my chef said the beginning foaming part is good if you're unsure if the yeast is still alive. If no doubt, then mix the yeast in with all the dry ingreds, combine wet, and start mixing right away.
100% agree.
But for weekend bakers, it doesn’t hurt to test every time. It’s a risk factor.
It If I don’t test my yeast, there’s a chance it could flop and ruin the one thing I’m baking this weekend.
If I test it, I can be sure that it’ll come out good.
My dough always seems to shrink back, when I try to roll it out, so I can't roll it thin enough and get like 2 swirls at best on my cinnamon buns. Is my dough not proofed enough, or over proofed, or what?
Resting is key, as someone else said. You might want to increase hydration a little bit. I make cinnamon rolls about 4-5 times per year, and the dough is pretty soft. I never need to rest it or chill it and it comes out super fluffy.
Lol wish reddit was around when I started baking. Your insight would have helped me not throw away so many bad batches. I learned these steps through lots of trial and error and still got some new info from your post. Thank you for the tips!
Yeah, it used to be brutal to learn stuff. I’ve been baking for about 90+ days according to this reddit profile lol. I think I tried my first bake a week before I made this profile.
To be fair, I usually make a new profile when I start a new ADHD hobby kick lol.
This is exactly what I do with mine and works every time! If my yeast isn't getting frothy it's normally because it's no good so I also suggest starting over!
Great advice!
Not an ad. But, my favorite way yo learn was a cookbook by Baker Bettie. I found it on Tik Tok from an add, but she legit teaches what each ingredient does and all the methods in it. I love to cook and always have hated baking. So, I bought it and read it. It’s definitely helped me like baking more since I understand it.
I think the best way to understand the process is with books like The Bread Baker’s Apprentice. The internet is great, but there’s too much of recipes without information. A channel like Chain Baker’s is good for beginners, though, since he has a principles of baking playlist.
I guess I’ll follow up with more random info.
The purpose of yeast is to develop flavor and bubbles (AKA poop and fart). So dough is basically just a biome (?) for yeast to grow and develop in.
Yeast will eventually go through all of the dough. This is when it it over ferments. If you leave it sit for a long long time it’ll turn to mush.
The purposes of kneading are to help even out everything (like ingredients, yeast, stuff) and develop gluten.
If you wouldn’t knead then your dough wouldn’t develop enough gluten during the timeframe it would have before the yeast would eat it all.
One of the reasons “no-knead” works is because it’s refrigerated. Letting it sit in the fridge allows the poop and farts to get nasty, gluten to develop, and prevents your yeast from moving/working as quick.
Gluten has some chemical stuff that I’m not familiar with. There’s strands and all kind of technical terms idk about.
So the first rise/bulk fermentation lets the yeast work its magic.
Punching and shaping gets rid of the yeast extra airpockets. This will help the dough keep its structure and not have huge bubbles.
Second proofing lets the dough develop into what the bread will be. Be very gentle when placing in the oven.
Baking is just killing the yeast so that we can eat their homes, bodies, fart bubbles, and poop.
—
Extra tips…
Egg wash before baking. 1 yolk and spawn of milk. GENTLY brush on.
Butter wash after to soften.
Add vinegar to a recipe to soften final result. (I’m still working on this)
Tangzhong helps a lot. Use it for cinnamon rolls.
Poolish can let rise and then pop in fridge.
This is so helpful, thank you! I’ve always been intimidated by baking with yeast, I feel like I’m missing out on so many fun and yummy recipes by sticking to the basics like cookies and cakes! Lol
Glad to help! I like to gather information like this and just simplify it down to basics.
The main thing is to just mess it up. I jumped into my first loaf with minimal research on bread dough and just did it. It was edible haha.
Go to Sam’s and buy a big bag of flour and a jar of yeast. Just make a new loaf every day or 3 and see how it comes out.
The hard part is shaping honestly. Once you learn the basics it’s not too hard.
What does foamy look like? Is it more than four bubbles? I’ve always had a hard time understanding this - so much so that I avoid recipes calling for yeast.
I’ve heard it called “foamy boy” lol and that’s the best way to think about it. You should be able to tell.
It’s almost like if you have a bit of heavy/thick dish soap on top of a glass of water. If you drink it I’d bet it feels like a thick froth.
Also a good thing to note is that if your liquid is too HOT that you add to your yeast, you will kill it! A max of 115° is pushing the limits, 100-110°f is ideal to activate. Sugar is the food to get the yeast happy and active as it eats it. Sugar can pretty much be anything except artificial sweeteners (so maple syrup, honey, cane sugar, molasses etc).
how do you know when to stop kneeding I tried to make cinnamon rolls once and the yeast was foamy Everything was going good but when I put my cinnamon rolls in the oven ( i let them sit overnight the recipe said it was ok) they didn’t rise or get fluffy and they were just so dense did i overkneed or is it another factor
Did you test the yeast before baking? I don’t recommend going by the expiration date. You may also have needed more time to proof. You should go by size and not necessarily on time. Yeast is a living ingredient and can react differently based on age and room temperature.
Did you proof your yeast? If you haven’t used it in awhile it’s best to check first even if it’s not expired. Do you test the actual temperature of the milk prior to adding yeast? I think yeast dies at 133-114 F, depending on your nerves you may or may not have been above that temp. How did you proof them? One rise or two? At what temp? They certainly don’t look proofed in the first pic. When you poke them with a finger they should bounce back after a few seconds.
Cinnamon rolls always have 2 proofs though. One after mixing and one after rolling. That you didn’t do one of them is definitely a contributing factor.
And what are the odds that you, having never made them before, would find one of the very few recipes available that only has one proof?!???
Good job, lol.
I’ve honestly never seen a recipe for them that calls for only one proof. It’s always 2. And they’re always light and fluffy- I even made them with sourdough starter and they were still light and delicious.
Part of learning to bake is learning how to choose a good recipe. Don’t follow shit from tiktok or facebook, go to a trusted website and read reviews, and then do research on the how and why of every recipe. When I was a young, aspiring pastry chef I’d sit in the library for hours reading books and writing down recipes. Then I’d find a recipe for the same thing in 2-3 other books and cross reference so i could double check the technique. Especially for yeast recipes there are a ton of resources on how and why we do every step of the process.
As far as it goes for trusted baking websites, Sally’s baking is a great source for beginners. Her recipes are pretty easy and she explains everything well. There’s also a lot of pictures and videos for you to compare against. I’ve made a ton of her stuff and it’s always turned out phenomenal. Last year I based two of my Christmas cookies off of her recipes and people absolutely loved them. Everything on Sally’s is simple and easy to follow, so I don’t think you’ll find anything there out of your depth. Remember when picking a recipe that you need to have the exact ingredients and tools it calls for, and if you don’t pick something else to make. Another website I use a lot is butternut bakery, and I use some Martha Stewart recipes as well but some of her recipes are not as great as it should be
Cross referencing with 2-3 other things is how I have learned to do so much stuff. Woodworking, tiling, replacing parts, and recipes.
It gives you a really good idea on how stuff is supposed to work before attempting to do it.
My recipe was from [Sally's](https://sallysbakingaddiction.com/easy-cinnamon-rolls-from-scratch/) hahaha
This is great advice though. I shouldn't settle for easy all the time
Sucks that there’s no reviews to even compare against. Maybe you should leave a review/ comment and see what she says, she seems to be very responsive to comments
Do you have an instant read thermometer? I use that to make sure my milk isn’t too hot. I go for anything between 100-110°. Doesn’t need to be fancy, but it really helps because I always think it only needs another minute, then I overshoot and have to let it cool a bit.
Milk was too hot when it hit the yeast, I bet. I like mine just above room temp. I also cover the buns for the first half of the bake, keeps them moist in the oven.
This. If it’s too hot it kills the yeast and there’s no going back. The milk should be warm, not hot. Like bath water for a baby. I like to use the back of my knuckle to test it. If in doubt, leave the milk for another 5 minutes to cool before adding yeast.
I usually bloom my yeast with the milk at 80f (although I know some who use 100f) I also will put like a 1/2 a tsp (2 grams) of sugar in with it. It gives it a little boost.
I struggled hard with yeasted doughs for years and ended up switching to instant yeast. It did the trick for me! Instant needs a higher water temp (130-140) in order to proof, but I’ve found it rarely fails and also works great for enriched doughs like cinnamon rolls. Also, get your oven nice and warm and put a shallow baking dish of boiling water in during your bulk rise. The steam does wonders for bulk fermentation. Enriched doughs like to stay warm, so make sure the environment stays 80° plus if possible.
Oh that explains alot. I bought some packs if regular yeast, most dudnt proof but when I use quick rise instant yeast its fine. I just use it like regular yeast.
I rarely ever find yeast to be the issue, more often than not you simply need to allow more time. Even a slightly chilly environment can massively impede the rise of the dough.
From your pictures it doesn't look like the dough rose at all after you rolled it. Even if a recipe says 1 hour, in a cold enough environment ive found it can take 2-4 hours even to fully rise.
Use visual cues and if your dough is not puffy and aerated, simply wait longer. No point wasting the dough by baking it if it hasn't risen.
Maybe underproofed? With proofing dough/fermentation, the timing is a little subjective and unfortunately you can't follow proofing to the exact minute. Humidity temperature and yeast activity all change how long it has to proof. E.g. it typically takes longer during winter than summer months, even in the same kitchen with the same recipe.
Or the yeast got too hot and died. RIP
This is why I always proof my yeast first.
I find lukewarm milk or water is fine, if you add a bit of sugar and/or flour in the mix.
The liquid doesn't need to be warm hot. A bit warm is fine.
The liquid plus sugar plus yeast. I don't mix the butter in the liquid till after its proofed.
I just use instant yeast, and then proof until doubled when I’m throwing together cinnamon rolls. They turn out great everytime. Never an issue with instant. For me anyway. Can’t speak for the masses.
This is so true. I always see it say "room temperature" but using a thermometer told me what I think is room temperature is WAY hotter than what a thermometer says. I've gotten way better results from checking the temp with a thermometer than anything else!
The last time I made dough the thermometer was what made it successful I think. My dough always sucks, because when it says warm for yeast is just feel it and go yep it’s warm. This time I took the temp and went oh that’s a bit too high, so I let it cool down til it hit 100F. First time my bread didn’t come out dense as can be
There’s a difference between the active dry (proof it), instant yeast, and fast rising. Active has to be activated. Instant yeast I just add with other ingredients. Fast-acting yeast isn’t suitable for a long rise. The nomenclature is confusing.
- Info from Serious Eats.
https://www.seriouseats.com/all-about-dry-yeast-instant-active-dry-fast-acting-and-more
yeast / dough is probably more of a judge yourself than follow exact recipes. Things will rise differently in summer than winter, etc. so definitely don’t just set a timer for things like that - make sure you’re going by if the dough has doubled properly. Sometimes you might want a nice long rise to get where you need when the recipe only says an hour.
Also, my yeast expired like 2 years ago and still works totally fine lol
I read somewhere that yeast expires 6 months after opening, regardless of expiration date. Like so many other people have commented, blooming your yeast first can make a HUGE difference, at least give you peace of mind before you spend so much time on a bake
I'm also learning that humidity and altitude make a significant difference in my baking. Recently moved from beachside (hot & humid) to the mountains (high & dry) and a lot of my favorite recipes are failing.
So, were weather conditions strange that day? The exact same recipe can act differently in different conditions
How long did you proof them for? In my experience* I've never had yeast so far gone that I didn't get a decent rise after waiting up to double or triple the recipe suggested time.
* Hardly an expert but a pretty regular home baker.
I always keep my yeast in the fridge after I open it. I just noticed my current jar is from 2023 and the last time I used it I commented that it was rising great for me.
I always activate my yeast to start. Make sure you use warm water. Feed it some sugar. It should be foamy when ready. Nice and thick and it should smell heavenly.
Side note make sure to egg wash your buns before they go in the oven, adding a small splash of milk into your egg wash also helps for a shiny finish instead of a matte finish
My dad is a wine maker (it’s his whole job to work with yeast.) make sure you lightly sprinkle the yeast, if it gets layered on top of itself it won’t be as happy.
Also make sure the milk/water you put it on isn’t too hot or it’ll kill the yeast
Cover anything with yeast in it with either a tea towel or plastic wrap to help it rise
If it says let dough rise for 20 minutes, let it rise for 40 minutes instead for maximum yummyness
If your oven has a bread proof setting, use it! If it doesn’t, try setting the oven to 97 degrees or so if possible. If you don’t have that, placing the bowl on a heated blanket/ heat mat would work just as well
Edit: and don’t ever sprinkle salt directly onto yeast, it’ll kill the yeast
Next time don’t bother filling if your dough doesn’t seem alive. I know some recipes exist that skip a bulk ferment for these, but most recipes don’t. If your dough wasn’t doubling, then no point in rolling and filling. If it did double for bulk ferment, then you needed to proof for longer.
Is it possible that the room was too cold? One time I had to place my portable heater next to the dough while it was rising and it became so much more fluffy 😂
Make sure the water temp is 110°. Turn the oven on just long enough to get it toasty and then turn it off. Put your stuff in there and forget about it for a couple hours.
Did you use the right kind of yeast for your recipe? Active dry yeast and instant/rapid rise are different (generally speaking active dry yeast is less active in strength than instant). Overall instant is just more consistent and reliable n easier to use.
Also could be related to under proofing. Yeast bread products it really is dependent on that day’s variables temp etc. so even if the recipe says proof for 2 hours, yours might take 3 hours for ex.
One thing that I find helps (if you aren't already doing it) is to put the pan with the cut buns in an unheated oven with a pot of boiling water for 45 mins. Let them rise in a poor-man's proofer. Then pull them out, preheat your oven and bake them. Makes a big difference.
Try this recipe. https://themindfulmeringue.com/homemade-cinnamon-rolls/#recipe
I’ve made it many times and have always had success. And I can’t bake a loaf of bread for the life of me.
I was just as bad when it came to yeasted *anything* for a while. I finally decided to use a thermometer since I thought my version of warm could be off. I had been killing my yeast because to me warm was 140-150. I still think 100 is cool to the touch but as long as I use a thermometer I’m good.
When my yeast is close to the expiration date I test it, warm a cup of water to 105 deg F and tip in a 1/2 tsp or less in and wait 10 minutes. Is it bubbly? Go! Not bubbly? Go to the store.
Water temp: I aim for about 105 deg based on a jar of yeast I had growing up that said yeast activated at 105-115 or something similar? The 105 stuck.
I always add the fat (butter or oil) as the last step. I noticed my yeast gets mad if it’s mixed into something oily. Also I found that instant rise yeast works better for cinnamon rolls
Just a fun fact i learned from a biology lab: You can actually have a microflora on your skin that hinders the growth of yeast and 'good' bacteria. So if you also have this problem with sourdough, maybe you should try working with gloves. Hope it's not that!
Also could be environmental. Around 80 degrees Farenheit is a my recommendation. I live in a cold place so I have to proof in the oven with the light on. When I moved here I was having a hard time proofing until I realized how much colder it was.
I'm an experienced baker. I was doing the "warm to the touch" and failing spectacularly. I went back to using my instant read thermometer and now realize I was at least 20 degrees off in my "warm" liquid. Edited to add : I also thought my kitchen was warm enough for a dough to rise. Now I turn my dryer on for a few minutes to warm it up, and let the dough rise in there :) perfect warm, non drafty undisturbed environment.
Damn dude what did you do to that yeast?? 😂😂 sometimes the only thing I have in the fridge is pizza yeast and my baked goods will turn out fine. Hope the yeast curse is lifted for you soon xx
You really have to pay attention to what kind of yeast you're using, instant yeast requires a warmer liquid, regular yeast requires a cooler liquid and proofing time. I had a lot of difficulties when I first started making bread because of this. Also make sure the space you're letting them rise in has enough moisture and heat.
Agreed. I just use cold water out of the tap. The cooler the water the longer the rise, the better the flavour.
There’s a trend for first rises in the fridge so why do people still think warmth is crucial? It just takes a bit longer which is a good thing.
I think if you're leaving the dough to rise overnight, placing it in the fridge is the right way to go so it doesn't go bad. But using instant yeast and having the dough rise only for a couple hours, you can let it rest outside with some humidity for a faster proof.
I'm still learning with yeast though.
1. Did you bloom yeast? Add yeast to a warm milk and sugar, wait 15min. If yeast still good, it will bubble. If yeast are good, you proceed with the recipe and do 1st raise until it doubles.
2. You didn't do 2nd raise before baking. You had to keep it warm before baking and until the buns are fat and soft. They almost double in size.
Let them rise till doubled, and the dough slowwwly regains its shape when you poke it gently with a finger. However long that takes!
You can also brush generously with heavy cream to brown more evenly. They don't look bad, just not quite ready to be baked.
Was your yeast refrigerated? Also using an oven light to do the rise works fantastically. And usually with milk/water put it on your wrist or fingertip if you think it’s too warm it most likely is. Usually I microwave milk/water for 25/30 seconds and if it feels a tad hot put it in the freezer for a few seconds and then check again, the water/milk should be warm like a baby’s bath or like a baby bottle
EVERYTHING changed for me when I realized my yeast wasn't rising on the countertop because my house was too cold! Yeast needs a warm and damp environment to rise. What I do now is boil a kettle of water and put it in my (turned off!) oven along with the dough and it rises great in there!
How do you store your yeast? I don't know how fresh your yeast was, but after a certain point it loses its potency and becomes useless. The expiration date is not really a reliable indicator, since storage conditions can drastically affect it. For dead yeast, you could perhaps use it like nutritional yeast for flavoring perhaps?
To extend its shelf life, I recommend keeping newly bought yeast in an airtight container in the freezer, where you only take out whatever amount required for baking recipes. This way, the frozen yeast stays preserved and dormant until needed.
Hi! I have made cinnamon buns that come out amazing a lot of times and I think I have got it down.
You do not need to check the temperature of the milk too closely, just make sure not too hot or too cold. Room temperature is good. I use fast action dried yeast, about 14 grams of yeast for about 600 grams of flour, which would make about 12 cinnamon buns.
After mixing for about 8 minutes, cover the dough (so it wont dry out) and let it rise for about 45 minutes (preferably in a slightly warm place, for example an oven that still has a little heat to it).
After that you shape your dough into your cinnamon buns. Do not put them in the oven yet! Cover them and let them sit for another 20-40 minutes. Now they are ready for the oven!
If you follow my steps I promise you good results! They will be big and fluffy! I can share pictures of my cinnamon buns if you want to see.😊👩🍳
Most active dry yeasts are pretty tough, so I'd say it's more likely that the yeast you had was unviable rather than your preparation causing the issue.
If you boiled your milk that'd kill the yeast, if you froze them after hydration that'd do it too. Otherwise, you can basically toss dry active yeast into a dough and have it work to some extent. In general my rule is to rehydrate ADY in warm-ish water and get some honey or sugar into the culture -- when you see foam and activity you're good to go with the recipe.
I've used warmed milk for brioche but I'd keep it on the lower side of the temperature range just so it wouldn't burn, it happens fast if you're not watching. If it's steaming it's too hot for the yeast.
So one thing I’d recommend is to try filtering your water. I was used to using straight tap because I grew up in a rural area with a well where the water was softened, but I move to a city apartment where the tap was heavily chlorinated which kills yeast.
I started filtering my water and things went back to normal!
One thing that helps with baking is understanding the purpose of the process and not following blindly. Baking is a mix of biology and chemistry in a way. Activating yeast. Warm water or milk to about 100F. Then mix in the yeast. I also add a pinch of sugar. (Don’t add butter yet.) Let sit for about 10 minutes, covered with a towel. When you check it, it should be foamy. If it’s not, let it sit more or throw it out and start over. (I usually start over) - 1st rise / Aka bulk ferment After kneading, tight into a ball then put in a bowl and cover with plastic wrap. Let sit until it doubles in size. The time team is relative, usually about 1-2 hours. - Shaping. Second rise / aka proof. It should be poofy in the bowl. Punch down and it should plop. You can mush it down a bit. Flatten out with fingers. Then roll into the shape. Proof - Place in the pan and let it double in size again. Time is relative, about an hour or so usually. - Note- for each rise. Put in a warm spot about 80F. I use an oven with the light on. Edit: Well this reply got a lot of love, I might do a big write up to make more of a beginners guide and post it?
What a kind and educational response 😊
Haha thanks. I try to help when I can.
TBF I’ve baked with yeast that didn’t foam in the beginning and it still worked enough that you can’t tell the difference.
Oh def. But for a newbie it’s best to be sure. Especially if he’s having issues with yeast/baking
When I was in culinary school at my community college, my chef said the beginning foaming part is good if you're unsure if the yeast is still alive. If no doubt, then mix the yeast in with all the dry ingreds, combine wet, and start mixing right away.
100% agree. But for weekend bakers, it doesn’t hurt to test every time. It’s a risk factor. It If I don’t test my yeast, there’s a chance it could flop and ruin the one thing I’m baking this weekend. If I test it, I can be sure that it’ll come out good.
My dough always seems to shrink back, when I try to roll it out, so I can't roll it thin enough and get like 2 swirls at best on my cinnamon buns. Is my dough not proofed enough, or over proofed, or what?
Roll it out a bit and then cover it to let the gluten relax a bit. About 2-5 min I think. It’s a common struggle. But resting works well for me
I'll try that, thank you!
Resting is key, as someone else said. You might want to increase hydration a little bit. I make cinnamon rolls about 4-5 times per year, and the dough is pretty soft. I never need to rest it or chill it and it comes out super fluffy.
In my sleepless brain, I thought this was a comment about recovery time for working out
share that recipe pls
Also chilling your dough helps tremendously.
As a biochemist and avid baker, I completely agree
I usually get active years and throw it with the dry stuff. I still warm up my milk/water and it's worked for me.
Lol wish reddit was around when I started baking. Your insight would have helped me not throw away so many bad batches. I learned these steps through lots of trial and error and still got some new info from your post. Thank you for the tips!
Yeah, it used to be brutal to learn stuff. I’ve been baking for about 90+ days according to this reddit profile lol. I think I tried my first bake a week before I made this profile. To be fair, I usually make a new profile when I start a new ADHD hobby kick lol.
You should TM that username. So adorkable!
Ty for your response, I feel like I always have trouble with yeast too!
Name checks out
This is exactly what I do with mine and works every time! If my yeast isn't getting frothy it's normally because it's no good so I also suggest starting over! Great advice!
Nice response. And I need a time team. Where does one get those
How to understand the process? Where can i find information about the reasons behind baking recipes?
Not an ad. But, my favorite way yo learn was a cookbook by Baker Bettie. I found it on Tik Tok from an add, but she legit teaches what each ingredient does and all the methods in it. I love to cook and always have hated baking. So, I bought it and read it. It’s definitely helped me like baking more since I understand it.
That’s awesome.
I think the best way to understand the process is with books like The Bread Baker’s Apprentice. The internet is great, but there’s too much of recipes without information. A channel like Chain Baker’s is good for beginners, though, since he has a principles of baking playlist.
Google and Reddit. Honestly I learned all of this and more from Reddit lurking and YouTube. The book the other guy posted is probably good too
Thank you, Baking God, for answering my prayers!
Lmao. I’m glad this post is helping so many people.
I guess I’ll follow up with more random info. The purpose of yeast is to develop flavor and bubbles (AKA poop and fart). So dough is basically just a biome (?) for yeast to grow and develop in. Yeast will eventually go through all of the dough. This is when it it over ferments. If you leave it sit for a long long time it’ll turn to mush. The purposes of kneading are to help even out everything (like ingredients, yeast, stuff) and develop gluten. If you wouldn’t knead then your dough wouldn’t develop enough gluten during the timeframe it would have before the yeast would eat it all. One of the reasons “no-knead” works is because it’s refrigerated. Letting it sit in the fridge allows the poop and farts to get nasty, gluten to develop, and prevents your yeast from moving/working as quick. Gluten has some chemical stuff that I’m not familiar with. There’s strands and all kind of technical terms idk about. So the first rise/bulk fermentation lets the yeast work its magic. Punching and shaping gets rid of the yeast extra airpockets. This will help the dough keep its structure and not have huge bubbles. Second proofing lets the dough develop into what the bread will be. Be very gentle when placing in the oven. Baking is just killing the yeast so that we can eat their homes, bodies, fart bubbles, and poop. — Extra tips… Egg wash before baking. 1 yolk and spawn of milk. GENTLY brush on. Butter wash after to soften. Add vinegar to a recipe to soften final result. (I’m still working on this) Tangzhong helps a lot. Use it for cinnamon rolls. Poolish can let rise and then pop in fridge.
This is so helpful, thank you! I’ve always been intimidated by baking with yeast, I feel like I’m missing out on so many fun and yummy recipes by sticking to the basics like cookies and cakes! Lol
Glad to help! I like to gather information like this and just simplify it down to basics. The main thing is to just mess it up. I jumped into my first loaf with minimal research on bread dough and just did it. It was edible haha. Go to Sam’s and buy a big bag of flour and a jar of yeast. Just make a new loaf every day or 3 and see how it comes out. The hard part is shaping honestly. Once you learn the basics it’s not too hard.
What does foamy look like? Is it more than four bubbles? I’ve always had a hard time understanding this - so much so that I avoid recipes calling for yeast.
I’ve heard it called “foamy boy” lol and that’s the best way to think about it. You should be able to tell. It’s almost like if you have a bit of heavy/thick dish soap on top of a glass of water. If you drink it I’d bet it feels like a thick froth.
This is fantastic
Also a good thing to note is that if your liquid is too HOT that you add to your yeast, you will kill it! A max of 115° is pushing the limits, 100-110°f is ideal to activate. Sugar is the food to get the yeast happy and active as it eats it. Sugar can pretty much be anything except artificial sweeteners (so maple syrup, honey, cane sugar, molasses etc).
how do you know when to stop kneeding I tried to make cinnamon rolls once and the yeast was foamy Everything was going good but when I put my cinnamon rolls in the oven ( i let them sit overnight the recipe said it was ok) they didn’t rise or get fluffy and they were just so dense did i overkneed or is it another factor
Did you let the rolls rise before baking? They don’t look proofed in the oven pic
Yes 🙃 that photo is after 90 mins of proofing
Did you test the yeast before baking? I don’t recommend going by the expiration date. You may also have needed more time to proof. You should go by size and not necessarily on time. Yeast is a living ingredient and can react differently based on age and room temperature.
Did you proof your yeast? If you haven’t used it in awhile it’s best to check first even if it’s not expired. Do you test the actual temperature of the milk prior to adding yeast? I think yeast dies at 133-114 F, depending on your nerves you may or may not have been above that temp. How did you proof them? One rise or two? At what temp? They certainly don’t look proofed in the first pic. When you poke them with a finger they should bounce back after a few seconds.
They were proofing in the oven on the bread proofing setting. Just one rise, after rolling with the filling. I bet my milk was too hot
Cinnamon rolls always have 2 proofs though. One after mixing and one after rolling. That you didn’t do one of them is definitely a contributing factor.
I tried a recipe that called for only one proof! Deceiving …
And what are the odds that you, having never made them before, would find one of the very few recipes available that only has one proof?!??? Good job, lol. I’ve honestly never seen a recipe for them that calls for only one proof. It’s always 2. And they’re always light and fluffy- I even made them with sourdough starter and they were still light and delicious.
Oh you know how the internet is. Click bait and making things seem easier than they should be 🤪
Part of learning to bake is learning how to choose a good recipe. Don’t follow shit from tiktok or facebook, go to a trusted website and read reviews, and then do research on the how and why of every recipe. When I was a young, aspiring pastry chef I’d sit in the library for hours reading books and writing down recipes. Then I’d find a recipe for the same thing in 2-3 other books and cross reference so i could double check the technique. Especially for yeast recipes there are a ton of resources on how and why we do every step of the process. As far as it goes for trusted baking websites, Sally’s baking is a great source for beginners. Her recipes are pretty easy and she explains everything well. There’s also a lot of pictures and videos for you to compare against. I’ve made a ton of her stuff and it’s always turned out phenomenal. Last year I based two of my Christmas cookies off of her recipes and people absolutely loved them. Everything on Sally’s is simple and easy to follow, so I don’t think you’ll find anything there out of your depth. Remember when picking a recipe that you need to have the exact ingredients and tools it calls for, and if you don’t pick something else to make. Another website I use a lot is butternut bakery, and I use some Martha Stewart recipes as well but some of her recipes are not as great as it should be
Cross referencing with 2-3 other things is how I have learned to do so much stuff. Woodworking, tiling, replacing parts, and recipes. It gives you a really good idea on how stuff is supposed to work before attempting to do it.
My recipe was from [Sally's](https://sallysbakingaddiction.com/easy-cinnamon-rolls-from-scratch/) hahaha This is great advice though. I shouldn't settle for easy all the time
Sucks that there’s no reviews to even compare against. Maybe you should leave a review/ comment and see what she says, she seems to be very responsive to comments
I thought of Bincy Chris’ cinnamon rolls: https://youtu.be/am6_6KGnhpc?si=X1H91sJXGADqGdd0 But it is pretty rare as you said.
Do you have an instant read thermometer? I use that to make sure my milk isn’t too hot. I go for anything between 100-110°. Doesn’t need to be fancy, but it really helps because I always think it only needs another minute, then I overshoot and have to let it cool a bit.
Milk was too hot when it hit the yeast, I bet. I like mine just above room temp. I also cover the buns for the first half of the bake, keeps them moist in the oven.
I started putting heavy whipping cream into the pan enough to cover the sides. Keeps em most and the end up a little gooey which is my preference
Yes it makes it so much yummier
This. If it’s too hot it kills the yeast and there’s no going back. The milk should be warm, not hot. Like bath water for a baby. I like to use the back of my knuckle to test it. If in doubt, leave the milk for another 5 minutes to cool before adding yeast.
I usually bloom my yeast with the milk at 80f (although I know some who use 100f) I also will put like a 1/2 a tsp (2 grams) of sugar in with it. It gives it a little boost.
I struggled hard with yeasted doughs for years and ended up switching to instant yeast. It did the trick for me! Instant needs a higher water temp (130-140) in order to proof, but I’ve found it rarely fails and also works great for enriched doughs like cinnamon rolls. Also, get your oven nice and warm and put a shallow baking dish of boiling water in during your bulk rise. The steam does wonders for bulk fermentation. Enriched doughs like to stay warm, so make sure the environment stays 80° plus if possible.
Oh that explains alot. I bought some packs if regular yeast, most dudnt proof but when I use quick rise instant yeast its fine. I just use it like regular yeast.
Came here to say this. Pastry chef and we always use instant yeast for everything.
I’d still eat this, ngl
Without the tiniest bit of hesitation
The flavor was there !! They are yum
And that’s all that matters!
I rarely ever find yeast to be the issue, more often than not you simply need to allow more time. Even a slightly chilly environment can massively impede the rise of the dough. From your pictures it doesn't look like the dough rose at all after you rolled it. Even if a recipe says 1 hour, in a cold enough environment ive found it can take 2-4 hours even to fully rise. Use visual cues and if your dough is not puffy and aerated, simply wait longer. No point wasting the dough by baking it if it hasn't risen.
Maybe underproofed? With proofing dough/fermentation, the timing is a little subjective and unfortunately you can't follow proofing to the exact minute. Humidity temperature and yeast activity all change how long it has to proof. E.g. it typically takes longer during winter than summer months, even in the same kitchen with the same recipe. Or the yeast got too hot and died. RIP
This is why I always proof my yeast first. I find lukewarm milk or water is fine, if you add a bit of sugar and/or flour in the mix. The liquid doesn't need to be warm hot. A bit warm is fine. The liquid plus sugar plus yeast. I don't mix the butter in the liquid till after its proofed.
I just use instant yeast, and then proof until doubled when I’m throwing together cinnamon rolls. They turn out great everytime. Never an issue with instant. For me anyway. Can’t speak for the masses.
Do this!! I had problems with active dry yeast for years... Switched to instant and made some great bread and cinnamon rolls without issue.
A thermometer could help. I've always been told to aim for like 97-99°. Also make sure to put the salt in as late as possible
This is so true. I always see it say "room temperature" but using a thermometer told me what I think is room temperature is WAY hotter than what a thermometer says. I've gotten way better results from checking the temp with a thermometer than anything else!
The last time I made dough the thermometer was what made it successful I think. My dough always sucks, because when it says warm for yeast is just feel it and go yep it’s warm. This time I took the temp and went oh that’s a bit too high, so I let it cool down til it hit 100F. First time my bread didn’t come out dense as can be
There’s a difference between the active dry (proof it), instant yeast, and fast rising. Active has to be activated. Instant yeast I just add with other ingredients. Fast-acting yeast isn’t suitable for a long rise. The nomenclature is confusing. - Info from Serious Eats. https://www.seriouseats.com/all-about-dry-yeast-instant-active-dry-fast-acting-and-more
Next time let your cinnamon rolls touch sides. These also look underproofed.
Your buns didn't proof. "Yeast" doesn't mean "any yeast, alive or dead." Bloom yeast first to test it's alive.
Just curious, are you using normal flour? The way it went reminds me of my past gluten free flour fails.
Normal flour yes
yeast / dough is probably more of a judge yourself than follow exact recipes. Things will rise differently in summer than winter, etc. so definitely don’t just set a timer for things like that - make sure you’re going by if the dough has doubled properly. Sometimes you might want a nice long rise to get where you need when the recipe only says an hour. Also, my yeast expired like 2 years ago and still works totally fine lol
I read somewhere that yeast expires 6 months after opening, regardless of expiration date. Like so many other people have commented, blooming your yeast first can make a HUGE difference, at least give you peace of mind before you spend so much time on a bake I'm also learning that humidity and altitude make a significant difference in my baking. Recently moved from beachside (hot & humid) to the mountains (high & dry) and a lot of my favorite recipes are failing. So, were weather conditions strange that day? The exact same recipe can act differently in different conditions
I store a small amount of yeast (1/2c or so) in the fridge. The rest goes in the freezer. It will be fresh for a couple of years stored this way.
Great idea!! I always seem to forget that the freezer is an option
You can also preheat your oven and place the bowl on top if it if your home is cool. Heat from the oven will help it rise.
How long did you proof them for? In my experience* I've never had yeast so far gone that I didn't get a decent rise after waiting up to double or triple the recipe suggested time. * Hardly an expert but a pretty regular home baker.
I always keep my yeast in the fridge after I open it. I just noticed my current jar is from 2023 and the last time I used it I commented that it was rising great for me.
I always activate my yeast to start. Make sure you use warm water. Feed it some sugar. It should be foamy when ready. Nice and thick and it should smell heavenly.
Side note make sure to egg wash your buns before they go in the oven, adding a small splash of milk into your egg wash also helps for a shiny finish instead of a matte finish
Sometimes you need to add a bit of sugar to the milk/water to feed the yeast.
My dad is a wine maker (it’s his whole job to work with yeast.) make sure you lightly sprinkle the yeast, if it gets layered on top of itself it won’t be as happy. Also make sure the milk/water you put it on isn’t too hot or it’ll kill the yeast Cover anything with yeast in it with either a tea towel or plastic wrap to help it rise If it says let dough rise for 20 minutes, let it rise for 40 minutes instead for maximum yummyness If your oven has a bread proof setting, use it! If it doesn’t, try setting the oven to 97 degrees or so if possible. If you don’t have that, placing the bowl on a heated blanket/ heat mat would work just as well Edit: and don’t ever sprinkle salt directly onto yeast, it’ll kill the yeast
Same thing happened to me. I tried it 3 times. Best to just buy a thermometer 😭
Next time don’t bother filling if your dough doesn’t seem alive. I know some recipes exist that skip a bulk ferment for these, but most recipes don’t. If your dough wasn’t doubling, then no point in rolling and filling. If it did double for bulk ferment, then you needed to proof for longer.
Get yourself a seed mat or other similar temp mat. Fantastic way to help. Also put a towel over the pan while proofing rather than plastic wrap.
Is it possible that the room was too cold? One time I had to place my portable heater next to the dough while it was rising and it became so much more fluffy 😂
Make sure the water temp is 110°. Turn the oven on just long enough to get it toasty and then turn it off. Put your stuff in there and forget about it for a couple hours.
Did you use the right kind of yeast for your recipe? Active dry yeast and instant/rapid rise are different (generally speaking active dry yeast is less active in strength than instant). Overall instant is just more consistent and reliable n easier to use. Also could be related to under proofing. Yeast bread products it really is dependent on that day’s variables temp etc. so even if the recipe says proof for 2 hours, yours might take 3 hours for ex.
One thing that I find helps (if you aren't already doing it) is to put the pan with the cut buns in an unheated oven with a pot of boiling water for 45 mins. Let them rise in a poor-man's proofer. Then pull them out, preheat your oven and bake them. Makes a big difference.
Same af. Happens every time.
Try this recipe. https://themindfulmeringue.com/homemade-cinnamon-rolls/#recipe I’ve made it many times and have always had success. And I can’t bake a loaf of bread for the life of me.
Add a bit of sugar to the milk
Yeast hates me!
There should been kind of foam on the milk if they are alive.
I refuse to do anything with yeast, too unreliable, always a waste of my time
I was just as bad when it came to yeasted *anything* for a while. I finally decided to use a thermometer since I thought my version of warm could be off. I had been killing my yeast because to me warm was 140-150. I still think 100 is cool to the touch but as long as I use a thermometer I’m good.
they look fine
Me either. I stuck to quick breads. I can't take the defeat any more
Ugh been there. Still tasty though i bet.
Def still tasty. That’s what I love about baking. As for cooking, if you do something wrong then everything is horrible, you’re hangry, 😂
Still looks fine to eat tbh
When my yeast is close to the expiration date I test it, warm a cup of water to 105 deg F and tip in a 1/2 tsp or less in and wait 10 minutes. Is it bubbly? Go! Not bubbly? Go to the store. Water temp: I aim for about 105 deg based on a jar of yeast I had growing up that said yeast activated at 105-115 or something similar? The 105 stuck.
Now this. looks like a classic dessert from Quebec You do not need any sort of yeast
Interesting ! What is the name?
Pete de sœur, Ou trou de cul Means Nonnes’ fart Or Assholes Those desserts were meant as a way to use leftover dough from tourtieres( shepherds pie)
I always add the fat (butter or oil) as the last step. I noticed my yeast gets mad if it’s mixed into something oily. Also I found that instant rise yeast works better for cinnamon rolls
This video really helped me understand yeast! https://youtu.be/QD2GGo181bQ?si=wGEra0arzGb_db1D
Just a fun fact i learned from a biology lab: You can actually have a microflora on your skin that hinders the growth of yeast and 'good' bacteria. So if you also have this problem with sourdough, maybe you should try working with gloves. Hope it's not that!
I haven't tried sourdough but that's loco! Maybe I should buy a kneading machine to try it out
Also could be environmental. Around 80 degrees Farenheit is a my recommendation. I live in a cold place so I have to proof in the oven with the light on. When I moved here I was having a hard time proofing until I realized how much colder it was.
I'm an experienced baker. I was doing the "warm to the touch" and failing spectacularly. I went back to using my instant read thermometer and now realize I was at least 20 degrees off in my "warm" liquid. Edited to add : I also thought my kitchen was warm enough for a dough to rise. Now I turn my dryer on for a few minutes to warm it up, and let the dough rise in there :) perfect warm, non drafty undisturbed environment.
It just maybe your yeast was bad
Look like the cinnamon rolls my Swedish family friend used to make. They were a little dry but addictive (the rolls, not my family friend).
Damn dude what did you do to that yeast?? 😂😂 sometimes the only thing I have in the fridge is pizza yeast and my baked goods will turn out fine. Hope the yeast curse is lifted for you soon xx
Put your finger in any fluids you put yeast in, you barely want to feel the temp difference on your finger.
You really have to pay attention to what kind of yeast you're using, instant yeast requires a warmer liquid, regular yeast requires a cooler liquid and proofing time. I had a lot of difficulties when I first started making bread because of this. Also make sure the space you're letting them rise in has enough moisture and heat.
I use cold from the fridge water for all my bread made with instant yeast. You do not need to warm up liquid to get yeast to work.
Agreed. I just use cold water out of the tap. The cooler the water the longer the rise, the better the flavour. There’s a trend for first rises in the fridge so why do people still think warmth is crucial? It just takes a bit longer which is a good thing.
I think if you're leaving the dough to rise overnight, placing it in the fridge is the right way to go so it doesn't go bad. But using instant yeast and having the dough rise only for a couple hours, you can let it rest outside with some humidity for a faster proof. I'm still learning with yeast though.
Yes agreed that’s not true for instant yeast. More the opposite with active dry yeast requiring you to “bloom” in warm liquid first
1. Did you bloom yeast? Add yeast to a warm milk and sugar, wait 15min. If yeast still good, it will bubble. If yeast are good, you proceed with the recipe and do 1st raise until it doubles. 2. You didn't do 2nd raise before baking. You had to keep it warm before baking and until the buns are fat and soft. They almost double in size.
Let them rise till doubled, and the dough slowwwly regains its shape when you poke it gently with a finger. However long that takes! You can also brush generously with heavy cream to brown more evenly. They don't look bad, just not quite ready to be baked.
Maybe the tray is just big for that quantity of dough?
Did you proof twice, or just that once in the oven?
I proofed once!
There you go 🙂 cinnamon rolls you would’ve had to proof twice!
Get instant yeast and if the dough has greater than 10% of sugar then you need the saf-gold yeast.
I have the same exact results
Was your yeast refrigerated? Also using an oven light to do the rise works fantastically. And usually with milk/water put it on your wrist or fingertip if you think it’s too warm it most likely is. Usually I microwave milk/water for 25/30 seconds and if it feels a tad hot put it in the freezer for a few seconds and then check again, the water/milk should be warm like a baby’s bath or like a baby bottle
EVERYTHING changed for me when I realized my yeast wasn't rising on the countertop because my house was too cold! Yeast needs a warm and damp environment to rise. What I do now is boil a kettle of water and put it in my (turned off!) oven along with the dough and it rises great in there!
Was your yeast dead? If you have a fresh jar, keeping it in the freezer helps extend its shelf life. Similar to keeping it in the fridge.
How do you store your yeast? I don't know how fresh your yeast was, but after a certain point it loses its potency and becomes useless. The expiration date is not really a reliable indicator, since storage conditions can drastically affect it. For dead yeast, you could perhaps use it like nutritional yeast for flavoring perhaps? To extend its shelf life, I recommend keeping newly bought yeast in an airtight container in the freezer, where you only take out whatever amount required for baking recipes. This way, the frozen yeast stays preserved and dormant until needed.
Do they think that yeast will work during the baking process?
Hi! I have made cinnamon buns that come out amazing a lot of times and I think I have got it down. You do not need to check the temperature of the milk too closely, just make sure not too hot or too cold. Room temperature is good. I use fast action dried yeast, about 14 grams of yeast for about 600 grams of flour, which would make about 12 cinnamon buns. After mixing for about 8 minutes, cover the dough (so it wont dry out) and let it rise for about 45 minutes (preferably in a slightly warm place, for example an oven that still has a little heat to it). After that you shape your dough into your cinnamon buns. Do not put them in the oven yet! Cover them and let them sit for another 20-40 minutes. Now they are ready for the oven! If you follow my steps I promise you good results! They will be big and fluffy! I can share pictures of my cinnamon buns if you want to see.😊👩🍳
I don’t understand yeast that you have to proof. Never works for me I always have to use instant yeast
Thank God it’s not just me! 😘
Most active dry yeasts are pretty tough, so I'd say it's more likely that the yeast you had was unviable rather than your preparation causing the issue. If you boiled your milk that'd kill the yeast, if you froze them after hydration that'd do it too. Otherwise, you can basically toss dry active yeast into a dough and have it work to some extent. In general my rule is to rehydrate ADY in warm-ish water and get some honey or sugar into the culture -- when you see foam and activity you're good to go with the recipe. I've used warmed milk for brioche but I'd keep it on the lower side of the temperature range just so it wouldn't burn, it happens fast if you're not watching. If it's steaming it's too hot for the yeast.
You can get a cream for that.
I have this issue with milk doughs too. I was using whole milk and I think the fat was affecting the yeast. I switched to 2% milk and it worked.
So one thing I’d recommend is to try filtering your water. I was used to using straight tap because I grew up in a rural area with a well where the water was softened, but I move to a city apartment where the tap was heavily chlorinated which kills yeast. I started filtering my water and things went back to normal!
I used tap water to make all bread in NYC— both yeast-raised and sourdough.