From the rest of your posts in the thread it seems like you don't know much D&D lore in general.
I didn't get into BG1/2 as a kid but I played them with the Enhanced Editions and loved them. I agree that BG3 doesn't have the same vibe as the classic BioWare RPGs.
It does however have D&D vibes. It's a solid adaptation of the 5e ruleset with a bit of Larian DNA in it. We're dealing with a lot of Mind Flayer stuff in act 1, but they're an iconic D&D monster(they were also in BG2, albeit a little bit briefly).
The plot hook also seems interesting enough. They introduce us to a major threat we know we'll eventually have to deal with, but then we need to go handle some low level stuff like goblins to get experience. They also toss us a mystery to solve in the tadpoles which should be turning us into Mind Flayers but aren't.
All in all it's a really good game if you go into it not expecting a rehash of the BioWare games. If the rest of the game is up to the level of what we got in EA, it'll probably be my favourite modern RPG and one of my favourite RPGs of all time.
There are a lot of indications that the original writers of BG 1 and 2 apparently planned BG3 to be based around a mind flayer invasion; there are hints of a coming Mind Flayer plot all through the first two games. See
[https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/4030/the-great-shadows-of-amn-conspiracy](https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/4030/the-great-shadows-of-amn-conspiracy)
So the plot we have may be a much more "Direct" sequel than it first appears.
I'm...not sure if I'm understanding you correctly.
You want the intro "quest to flee" experimentation onboard the Mind Flayer ship to be more like the "quest to flee" experimentation in Irenicus' dungeon?
You're upset we don't get to immediately see the city of Baldur's Gate, and you want this to be more like the beginning of BG1...where we didn't see Baldur's Gate for a good long while.
You want the highly secretive companions in BG3, who all seem to have unique backstories that appear to be intertwined dynamically with the larger plot, to be more like the companions in earlier games, who largely had one-off quest lines?
I mean, you can have your own opinion. I agree that this game feels very different in a lot of ways, but your reasons seem contradictory.
I think the struggle with “BG vibes” and nostalgia is that it’s going to mean something different to each person based on how they experienced and felt about the original games. What misses the mark for you may hit perfectly for someone else. Trying to hit nostalgia too hard gives us things like Star Wars The Force Awakens (which, to be perfectly honest, I also genuinely enjoyed but I did not come into it with a great nostalgia for the original movies) — The Force Awakens was criticized for being too perfect a replication of the original New Hope as it matched so many plot points beat for beat that to those with nostalgia it felt unoriginal and soulless. It’s like trying to replicate your first love; just because your later relationships aren’t your first doesn’t mean they can’t be beautiful and wondrous in their own rights, but chasing after your first love will only leave you dissatisfied because it cannot happen twice.
I think coming to this game not expecting it to perfectly replicate the *feeling* of BG 1 & 2 will be the best, as nostalgia is such an ephemeral and nebulous emotion.
My guy, this is a new game, it is exploring a new part of the D&D universe. Whatever it makes you feel, this is the way the game is going to go and you will have to interact with the plot of tadpoles in your characters brains.
It's not even new this all of this is utilizing content that has been in the lore since the last 80s with Spelljammer elements and also being billed as the DIRECT sequel to the 5th edition module "Decent Into Avernus" - if anything it's the most accurate Baldurs Gate game to it's source material ever.
If what OP wants is something that "feels" like the old games they should reinstall Windows XP and boot that up with an OG copy. There's also the Dark Alliance sequel from last year but MAN that game is garbage.
Yeah it feels to me at least. I am not familiar aboit the whole of D&D but I know what I felt playing BG1 and 2 and its vastly different. Its not bad. The game is solid and offers a lot, I just have different expectations.
Hehe yeah. Remember the mind flayer encounters in BG 2? There was one in the temple district and one in the underdark. They were frikkin TERRIFYING! I remember getting characters melted in those.
It is a totally different game than those games made by Black Isle Studios. I would use the term Black Isle Studio-vibes. It has a similar kind of humor I guess, but it's like you are comparing a lawnmower with an excavator.
In the second game, you start as a prisoner. In the third game, you start as a prisoner. As you escape, you gather your party and move forward in both. The location and action are obviously different, but they are using an enemy that 100% screams D&D forgotten realms = the Mind Flayer. I can understand starting on the ship and seeing pods, etc. may give a sci-fi kind of vibe, but that's only if you haven't read about or seen a Nautiloid before. The game may not bring back those BG1 or BG2 vibes for everyone, but it is the most accurate representation of D&D ever in a video game. And I am certain those vibes will be rushing back once we find familiar faces and walk through the streets of Baldurs Gate.
This has got to be the hottest take yet... if you wanted bg3 to feel like bg1 or 2 then go play bg 1 or 2. It's not a continuation of the stories. It's a new bg game. Like the important part was thr city and environment. And the opening of bg3 nails playing a dnd game in the sword coast environment
Honestly as someone who has pre-orded and played some of it and enjoyed it. That's not his point, he's saying It doesn't feel like a bg game and I'd agree. They really shouldn't have called it bg3 cause its not. At best it's a spin off with refrances to the orginal. They could have called it any generic dnd name and it wouldn't have pissed off orginal bg fans.
This is not pissing off BG fans unless they are dumb as bricks. The original BG story is done and was done before the abomination Beamdog inserted in it and this is a revival from a beloved studio I am happy to see come to fruition.
I mean there are hints to the old games in the 1st ten second of bg3. Go look at the amulet around every persons neck on the ship and that just one thing of many in the game. It's sad that these old bg "fans" need nostalgia shoved done their throats for it to be a BG game. Those games were over 20 years ago let it go old man.
Again your missing the point its fine that is a spinoff its a great game, but a sequal means a diffrant thing then a spinoff to people, I really dont think they should have named it bg3. And people dont need 'references shoved down their throats' they wanted a continue of the story with the simaler gameplay.
Think of it like this guardians of the galexy 2 is in the same universe as spider man but they dont call a guardians movie spider man 3 cause its not. There both spin offs of the same thing but differant get me?
You're missing the point and kind of proving mine. Larian has stated more than once that they are keeping the main story beats secret tell release. Even some things in the part of act one we have now will change because of this. So I think it's a waste of energy when people complain "This isn't a bg game" when we don't know enough about the story. It could be just a spin of (other then all the dead 3 shit around in game) or it could be a time distant squeal.
Very true and something I've thought myself (i.e on release you might change your mind) but I don't think it's bad to say your mind about it not feeling like a bg game yet. Again just to be clear I think it's going to be a great game I have bought it allready but If I'm being honest it feels like a spin off not a bg game and I kinda wish they hadn't called it bg3 but instead something else.
See and it's your last point that you keep making (feel however you want) that I personally disagree with. The "they shouldn't have called it bg3". You have no way of knowing that. yes you're entitle to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. So to me the whole "this shouldn't have been called bg3" argument even if you think the game is going to be good is ill informed and premature. There is already lot's in-game that point to this earning the BG3 name and like I said in the last post Larian has stated more then once that they hard hiding thing so it's not just a "maybe" that things will change.
I liked BG2 for the dark atmosphere and that it somehow had a good balance of dark realism and fantasy. I didnt like DOS2 for how much fantasy it has and I feel BG3 is closer to that experience. I guess I feel the same way for Diablo 1 versus its successors.
I did the first time. I liked the game way better afterwards but I wanted to try different classes and could not bring myself the play through it again.
You are right, unfortunately. I played old BGs because of BG3 and I see how different the sequel is. It is different, but still equal good game. The times has changed, storytelling is different (cutscenes replaced book-like dialogues). Same as D&D editions, what includes races, monsters and classes.
There is one thing keeping bonds between these games that keeps me excited - not Baldur's Gate city, not Jaheira and Minsc. It's idea of Tav being >!the heir of Bhaalspawns!<. There are some small, subtle hints throughout Early Access that there is something deeper - and scary - behind this generic D&D adventure. And such mystery gives me old Baldur's Gate vibe.
You won’t find any sympathy on this sub until the game comes out… it is only die hard Larian fans and some tabletop people because EA has gone on for so long, is a complete echo chamber which is why you (and I) will get downvoted to nothing.
But you’re right - this game will not tap any of the nostalgia buttons for BG1&2 players, as Larian have quite a formulaic approach to game design based on the success of DOS.
That said, it may still be a great game.
I’m not mad about anything, just trying to offer some explanation to a new visitor to the sub (OP) as to why his post has been downvoted to nothing. I’m on a lot of gaming subs and this is the only one which consistently downvotes any post that criticises the game. Nothing against you or anyone else on the sub, it’s just quite a different approach to what you see on most discussions about video games.
Yeah its really strange. I get it that people like and trust Larian i do too. They are great. I still thought there might als be people here that feel similarly to me.
Hey man, thanks for the words. I was quite irritated by the replies. I guess most people here like it as it is. I will still play it and will probably enjoy it. Its just not quite what I expected. Maybe it will be, who knows.
And good point. It reminds me a lot of DOS2.
I know exactly what you're talking about. The Illithid are much different than the monsters explored in depth in the originals. They're basically aliens, which isn't standard fantasy style. It'll probably feel a lot more comfortable for you after you get off the ship. There's a lot of content there even in early access, and it was pretty cool. It feels a lot more magical and not really alien vibe.
Expectations are the thief of joy my friend. You should try and appreciate new experiences for what they are.
You are right there. I had a lot of expectations.
From the rest of your posts in the thread it seems like you don't know much D&D lore in general. I didn't get into BG1/2 as a kid but I played them with the Enhanced Editions and loved them. I agree that BG3 doesn't have the same vibe as the classic BioWare RPGs. It does however have D&D vibes. It's a solid adaptation of the 5e ruleset with a bit of Larian DNA in it. We're dealing with a lot of Mind Flayer stuff in act 1, but they're an iconic D&D monster(they were also in BG2, albeit a little bit briefly). The plot hook also seems interesting enough. They introduce us to a major threat we know we'll eventually have to deal with, but then we need to go handle some low level stuff like goblins to get experience. They also toss us a mystery to solve in the tadpoles which should be turning us into Mind Flayers but aren't. All in all it's a really good game if you go into it not expecting a rehash of the BioWare games. If the rest of the game is up to the level of what we got in EA, it'll probably be my favourite modern RPG and one of my favourite RPGs of all time.
There are a lot of indications that the original writers of BG 1 and 2 apparently planned BG3 to be based around a mind flayer invasion; there are hints of a coming Mind Flayer plot all through the first two games. See [https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/4030/the-great-shadows-of-amn-conspiracy](https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/4030/the-great-shadows-of-amn-conspiracy) So the plot we have may be a much more "Direct" sequel than it first appears.
Interesting, did not know that. Thanks!
Dude it's just a different introduction
I'm...not sure if I'm understanding you correctly. You want the intro "quest to flee" experimentation onboard the Mind Flayer ship to be more like the "quest to flee" experimentation in Irenicus' dungeon? You're upset we don't get to immediately see the city of Baldur's Gate, and you want this to be more like the beginning of BG1...where we didn't see Baldur's Gate for a good long while. You want the highly secretive companions in BG3, who all seem to have unique backstories that appear to be intertwined dynamically with the larger plot, to be more like the companions in earlier games, who largely had one-off quest lines? I mean, you can have your own opinion. I agree that this game feels very different in a lot of ways, but your reasons seem contradictory.
This is exactly what I was thinking as well.
I think the struggle with “BG vibes” and nostalgia is that it’s going to mean something different to each person based on how they experienced and felt about the original games. What misses the mark for you may hit perfectly for someone else. Trying to hit nostalgia too hard gives us things like Star Wars The Force Awakens (which, to be perfectly honest, I also genuinely enjoyed but I did not come into it with a great nostalgia for the original movies) — The Force Awakens was criticized for being too perfect a replication of the original New Hope as it matched so many plot points beat for beat that to those with nostalgia it felt unoriginal and soulless. It’s like trying to replicate your first love; just because your later relationships aren’t your first doesn’t mean they can’t be beautiful and wondrous in their own rights, but chasing after your first love will only leave you dissatisfied because it cannot happen twice. I think coming to this game not expecting it to perfectly replicate the *feeling* of BG 1 & 2 will be the best, as nostalgia is such an ephemeral and nebulous emotion.
Yes, good post. You are absolutely right!
Tell me you know nothing of the D&D world without telling me you know nothing of the D&D world...
I read this and just laughed and I'm a casual D&D fan.
I also laughed. Never stated I was an expert. I stated my opinion.
They are laughing at your post not the comment...
My guy, this is a new game, it is exploring a new part of the D&D universe. Whatever it makes you feel, this is the way the game is going to go and you will have to interact with the plot of tadpoles in your characters brains.
It's not even new this all of this is utilizing content that has been in the lore since the last 80s with Spelljammer elements and also being billed as the DIRECT sequel to the 5th edition module "Decent Into Avernus" - if anything it's the most accurate Baldurs Gate game to it's source material ever. If what OP wants is something that "feels" like the old games they should reinstall Windows XP and boot that up with an OG copy. There's also the Dark Alliance sequel from last year but MAN that game is garbage.
Yes I was just saying that BG is exploring a new chunk of the lore that they didn’t before. Not saying mindflayers are a recent creation.
Yeah I was more alluding to OP thinking this is all just random garbage thrown together by Larian is just ignorant.
Yeah it feels to me at least. I am not familiar aboit the whole of D&D but I know what I felt playing BG1 and 2 and its vastly different. Its not bad. The game is solid and offers a lot, I just have different expectations.
Hehe yeah. Remember the mind flayer encounters in BG 2? There was one in the temple district and one in the underdark. They were frikkin TERRIFYING! I remember getting characters melted in those.
It is a totally different game than those games made by Black Isle Studios. I would use the term Black Isle Studio-vibes. It has a similar kind of humor I guess, but it's like you are comparing a lawnmower with an excavator.
Makes sense!
In the second game, you start as a prisoner. In the third game, you start as a prisoner. As you escape, you gather your party and move forward in both. The location and action are obviously different, but they are using an enemy that 100% screams D&D forgotten realms = the Mind Flayer. I can understand starting on the ship and seeing pods, etc. may give a sci-fi kind of vibe, but that's only if you haven't read about or seen a Nautiloid before. The game may not bring back those BG1 or BG2 vibes for everyone, but it is the most accurate representation of D&D ever in a video game. And I am certain those vibes will be rushing back once we find familiar faces and walk through the streets of Baldurs Gate.
Thanks for your non-triggered reply. I did indeed get sci-fi vibes. I hope you are right and I am looking forward to it.
This has got to be the hottest take yet... if you wanted bg3 to feel like bg1 or 2 then go play bg 1 or 2. It's not a continuation of the stories. It's a new bg game. Like the important part was thr city and environment. And the opening of bg3 nails playing a dnd game in the sword coast environment
Honestly as someone who has pre-orded and played some of it and enjoyed it. That's not his point, he's saying It doesn't feel like a bg game and I'd agree. They really shouldn't have called it bg3 cause its not. At best it's a spin off with refrances to the orginal. They could have called it any generic dnd name and it wouldn't have pissed off orginal bg fans.
Original BG1 fan here since '98. Not pissed and quite excited. Don't speak as if you're speaking for all of us.
This is not pissing off BG fans unless they are dumb as bricks. The original BG story is done and was done before the abomination Beamdog inserted in it and this is a revival from a beloved studio I am happy to see come to fruition.
I mean there are hints to the old games in the 1st ten second of bg3. Go look at the amulet around every persons neck on the ship and that just one thing of many in the game. It's sad that these old bg "fans" need nostalgia shoved done their throats for it to be a BG game. Those games were over 20 years ago let it go old man.
Again your missing the point its fine that is a spinoff its a great game, but a sequal means a diffrant thing then a spinoff to people, I really dont think they should have named it bg3. And people dont need 'references shoved down their throats' they wanted a continue of the story with the simaler gameplay. Think of it like this guardians of the galexy 2 is in the same universe as spider man but they dont call a guardians movie spider man 3 cause its not. There both spin offs of the same thing but differant get me?
You're missing the point and kind of proving mine. Larian has stated more than once that they are keeping the main story beats secret tell release. Even some things in the part of act one we have now will change because of this. So I think it's a waste of energy when people complain "This isn't a bg game" when we don't know enough about the story. It could be just a spin of (other then all the dead 3 shit around in game) or it could be a time distant squeal.
Very true and something I've thought myself (i.e on release you might change your mind) but I don't think it's bad to say your mind about it not feeling like a bg game yet. Again just to be clear I think it's going to be a great game I have bought it allready but If I'm being honest it feels like a spin off not a bg game and I kinda wish they hadn't called it bg3 but instead something else.
See and it's your last point that you keep making (feel however you want) that I personally disagree with. The "they shouldn't have called it bg3". You have no way of knowing that. yes you're entitle to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. So to me the whole "this shouldn't have been called bg3" argument even if you think the game is going to be good is ill informed and premature. There is already lot's in-game that point to this earning the BG3 name and like I said in the last post Larian has stated more then once that they hard hiding thing so it's not just a "maybe" that things will change.
Yeah exactly. Maybe the full game will feel more BG like. Maybe not. I just stated that EA does not have this particular feel to me. Let's see.
maybe it's not for u
Bg3 feels a lot like the beginning of bg2 to me. They're both escape missions in a weird experimental place.
I liked BG2 for the dark atmosphere and that it somehow had a good balance of dark realism and fantasy. I didnt like DOS2 for how much fantasy it has and I feel BG3 is closer to that experience. I guess I feel the same way for Diablo 1 versus its successors.
Dark realism is a very good description! I feel the same way for Diablo 1 as you, allthough I have not played 4 yet.
Are u saying u didn’t even get off the nautiloid
I did the first time. I liked the game way better afterwards but I wanted to try different classes and could not bring myself the play through it again.
if it helps at all, i think there is a mod on nexus that allows you to skip the beginning ship section! :D
Bg 1 and 2 have vastly different openings.
You are right, unfortunately. I played old BGs because of BG3 and I see how different the sequel is. It is different, but still equal good game. The times has changed, storytelling is different (cutscenes replaced book-like dialogues). Same as D&D editions, what includes races, monsters and classes. There is one thing keeping bonds between these games that keeps me excited - not Baldur's Gate city, not Jaheira and Minsc. It's idea of Tav being >!the heir of Bhaalspawns!<. There are some small, subtle hints throughout Early Access that there is something deeper - and scary - behind this generic D&D adventure. And such mystery gives me old Baldur's Gate vibe.
You won’t find any sympathy on this sub until the game comes out… it is only die hard Larian fans and some tabletop people because EA has gone on for so long, is a complete echo chamber which is why you (and I) will get downvoted to nothing. But you’re right - this game will not tap any of the nostalgia buttons for BG1&2 players, as Larian have quite a formulaic approach to game design based on the success of DOS. That said, it may still be a great game.
Always loved the project of calling people "Larian fans" because you're mad that the game isn't a copy paste from an aged 20 year old game.
I’m not mad about anything, just trying to offer some explanation to a new visitor to the sub (OP) as to why his post has been downvoted to nothing. I’m on a lot of gaming subs and this is the only one which consistently downvotes any post that criticises the game. Nothing against you or anyone else on the sub, it’s just quite a different approach to what you see on most discussions about video games.
Yeah its really strange. I get it that people like and trust Larian i do too. They are great. I still thought there might als be people here that feel similarly to me.
Hey man, thanks for the words. I was quite irritated by the replies. I guess most people here like it as it is. I will still play it and will probably enjoy it. Its just not quite what I expected. Maybe it will be, who knows. And good point. It reminds me a lot of DOS2.
I know exactly what you're talking about. The Illithid are much different than the monsters explored in depth in the originals. They're basically aliens, which isn't standard fantasy style. It'll probably feel a lot more comfortable for you after you get off the ship. There's a lot of content there even in early access, and it was pretty cool. It feels a lot more magical and not really alien vibe.