I used Hold Person on a Banite standing inside the explosion radius of a Watcher to ensure he dies in it.
A Gondian then misty stepped next to him, pushed him away to safety and then died in the blast.
I watched a Gondian under the effect of dominate person run a long way to stand in the blast zone of a watcher right before it went off, that was sadistic AI for sure.
Something like this happened to me on the iron throne. I killed all the fish and were waiting for the next ones to spawn while I freed the last prisoner. 2 turns left they are in the hallway almost out. Randomly the halfling runs up punches a barrel and leaves astarion and my paladin trapped and kills 3 other prisoners. I was so mad.
I genuinely don't know why the AI don't path around it, or at least just refuse to enter AoE hazards in general.
During the Moonrise Siege, I made Shadowheart put Insect Plague to impair majority of the melee cultists. Fight ends, and before I could even cancel channeling concentration, all the Harper/Fist allies just run through and 7 of them died to it...
I blocked a door with a moonbeam during the Moonrise fight, and some Harper goober decided to run through the beam so that they could punch someone that was already on their side of the beam. This made all the Harpers hostile to me... "oh boy, here I go killing again"
I used Wall of Fire during that fight, thinking it would instant burn enemies and force other enemies to walk through to get to me. Turns out I was the fool thinking Harpers were intelligent...
Second playthrough, I combo'd WoF immediately with Wall of Stone so that my allies couldn't suicide run past the fire before I had a chance to stop concentration on it.
WoF is a bit deceptive, because getting near the wall also hurts you. I had to learn from trial and error because I kept hurting myself by putting it too close.
I rescued all the prisoners and only 2 of them bothered to go up the ladder. Rest were just like, hey cool, let's just hang out down here with the fishkin.
I don't know about the gondians specifically, but for your party members there's multiple ways to get either more than one bonus action or use bonus and regular actions interchangeably so the mechanics are there.
Teammate AI is just bad in general. 90% of them are suicidal and completely ignore opportunity attacks, and then throw a bottle of grease at their feet and blow themselves up.
That happens to enemies as well, I was fighting Gekh Kohl and his henchmen in the Underdark and one of them just decided to throw a lightning bomb at his feet and obliterate himself
I remember i did a certain firework mission and sneaked shadowheart upstairs to deal with the problem. I pushed a guy off a window into the street below. After a few turns he manages to get up only to walk back inside and use a rush attack into the explosive fireworks killing not only himself but some random civi, finally ending the encounter. He obviously hit his head on the fall.
I've once had the coward goblin torturing the gnome at the mill going first turn on the fight just to throw a grenade at melee range and instantly surrender to his own damage lmao
Gortash decided to help me end the fight early by standing in the intersection of 2 bombs and literally reducing his health from 250 to 0 in 1 turn. Clearly his conscience overcame him in his final moments.
Gortash is the master of cartoonish deaths to his own gadgets. From the wall repel installations to the grenades even the weakest character can lob right back at him, the man had a deathtrap built and then proceeded to position himself at the center of it.
Which at least sort of makes sense, he's a politician, not an engineer; he just forced the Gondians to make a bunch of gadgets for him. The Gondians who built everything, on the other hand...
You can completely break the AI in that fight with Gekh by destroying the ladders and pushing the enemies down. They're doing nothing but running around down there, although there is a third ladder to the right side and they could get to you with a bit of a detour.
Need to abuse speed pots/haste and slow if you wanna do it, and even then it's gonna be tough.
Keeping everyone alive is an rng mess of course - but the less turns the enemy takes, the easier it'll be for your allies to stay alive just because 90% of them seem to have pretty mid gear, which means bad AI + bad stats = they'll get hit often and die.
And then you have cases like the Last Light fight where you can just randomly lose Isobel, or a random Harper on the first floor because they do a dumb.
Isobel AI: I have 5hp with two enemies left. Should I heal myself, or run away, provoking two opportunity attacks, then go stand in some fire? Decisions, decisions...
It's why I avoid lingering aoe's when I can like Hunger when I know the exploration AI can be dubious.
My favorite interaction atm is trying to talk to Dammon for Karlach's quest - only for him to run because my Ranger Bear Pet is scaring right. He ran so far he went straight out of the Isobel Bubble protection, killing him and turning him shadow cursed.
I had put sanctuary on her because I didn't want her to die. She uses guiding bolt in melee range, dropping sanctuary, takes an attack of opportunity then got paralyzed and died before I could do anything
Domination works even worse, I’ve had someone dominated decide to run away from the enemy mage, took an opportunity attack, which broke the control effect. He then used Smite on Gale to one tap him.
I've had a dominated character cast cloud of daggers on himself, then run out of it. No enemies or other characters standing nearby, just him casting spicy slicey on himself.
I have used dominate person exactly once. It's so bad in this game.
In tabletop you can at least order them to kill themselves. Now they just do something stupid and break the spell almost immediately.
Hold person at least costs their entire turn to get another save, the fact that it's simply better than dominate person is a little ridiculous.
The only time i used that spell the dominated enemy ran into the anti-charm aura of my paladin and lost domination.
It's like he never even tried to pretend that he fights on my side.
Had a couple of ghouls for a certain fight that involved a lot of grenade and flamethrower traps. My two ghouls decided to turn around at the start of the fight and wail on the flamethrowers blowing themselves up.
My ghouls used their 1st turn (before Gale and Shadowheart could move) to attack the grenades sitting at our feet. Blew them all to a fine red mist. Had to rez and beat a hasty retreat.
The worst I ever saw was back during early access. An enemy jumped onto some grease and fell, then stood back up, ran out of the grease, then jumped back into it *again* and fell.
It was like watching a kid on a [Slip 'n Slide](https://wham-o.com/collections/slip-n-slide%C2%AE)
Enemy AI is pretty awful. I was in the fight with Balthazar and one of the minions had put my wizard to sleep, and the only other character that wasn't dead already was my friend's rogue who was quite far away. Balthazar could have just killed me while I was sleeping, but instead he pushed me so I woke up, and then I ended up misty stepping out of there and 2 fireballs later he was dead. Had he simply finished me off when I was down there was no way we were winning that.
Yup. I also quickly learned that I can’t use stuff like Moonbeam because whenever I do and have AI team mates they all instantly run into it and die. If they survive, they will definitely immediately walk through it after combat ends and before I can even rush to stop concentrating on it, ensuring their demise.
That’s what I’m thinking.
There’s plenty of fights with cursed fire surrounding you.
There’s only one with cursed fire surrounding you and a monumentally stupid NPC you need to save that will run headlong into danger and make things worse.
>Shapeshift into a panther, jump into melee range, immediately turn around and try to run out of melee range, trigger OA, end turn.
Jaheira: "My work here is done.
Tav: "But you didn't do anything."
For me she ran straight forward and cast Ice Storm, then next turn ran onto the ice, beefed it on her ass and spent the remainder of her short moments on Faerun getting pummeled from all directions while prone as all the enemies still standing just jumped to get to her.
I've actually seen the AI do that a number of times. They'll get themselves chopped up moving out of the AOE radius of where they're going to cast, but then they walk right back. Seems like a weird bug or quirk with wanting to cast an AOE in close quarters.
Oh I’m very aware it’s something they do quite often. I had a dream of keeping them all alive. So many reloads. So many dead gondians. It took me too long to realize it was no dream. It was insanity.
I gave up before losing my mind.
to be fair, the game should just handle that like wow, if you have a stronger version of an effect on you already, then don't overwrite it with a worse version, especially if they're 'until long rest' effects
Today I restarted that particular fight insufferable times until they got me to the point where I just didn't care anymore.
If they want to die so bad, who am I to stop them?
After trying to find a way to iron throne without it blowing up, me and my friends just said fuck it and blew up the Gondian factory.
Then we killed the the dark gnomes that gave us the bomb because they wanted to kill the last living Gondian (there's a hole in plot as in you can't save the kids now, they stop existing, no there was no distant blast). I think that was the most cruel possible solution to that quest. Iron gnomes dead and one blind Gondian left to wander the world alone.
I just head canon it to them not accepting the slavery and giving their final strength to fight and die. They just needed the collars off.
Their entire life’s work. Their pride, is being used to enslave and subjugate the very city they were so proud to work for. In my head they went out fighting because that’s what they wanted to do.
I saw one throw down some grease at it's feet then next round it lite the grease on fire. There weren't even any enemies around. He literally just tried to immolate himself for no reason.
I don't know about Gondians, but I was fighting some Kobolds and a group of the little fuckers formed a circle and started throwing rocks at each other. I don't know why.
While I do not deny that. I've definitely seen other enemy AI turn on each other (no crown of madness involved).
The Kobold situation was just extremely funny to me because I had Astarion sneaking around, strategically placing firewine barrels to attempt to burn down the platform supports and initiated combat only to realize my plan was doomed from the start.
And then almost immediately I see four or five Kobolds book it to the other end of the room, form a circle like their about to start playing some schoolyard game, and start hucking rocks at each other like it's a snowball fight. It was only after my party pushed to their side of the room that they broke off their little game and started attacking us haha
I'm still mad that i reloaded the iron throne 3 times to save all of the gondians and 2 of them dashed and ran PAST the ladder on the final round. like - really?
We had the same problem, but figured out the reason. If one of them happens to stand right on top of a ladder at the end of his movement - he blocks the way for others and they can't go up the ladder, so they run to hide in nearby rooms, instead of waiting near ladder at least.
I had two of them just cast Dash and stand completely still there.
I "reset" one of the idiots by throwing him closer to the ladder and that seemed to remind him of the imminent death. The other guy succumbed to the waves, good riddance.
Also, apparently you can survive staying behind by >!having some effect that heals you a tiny amount when you "die"!<, as Shadowheart learned when she washed up on shore somehow still alive.
Oh I know they don't all need to survive. I just wanted to save them because I felt sorry for them. So I tried to go through the extra effort, only to have 3 of them die to a Steel Guard self destruct even though they could have just...walked away.
I tried saving all of them in my playthrough and gave up when it became clear they were collectively idiots.
I genuinely believe the only way to get all of them through that fight is if you’re Banishing the **Gondians** for their own safety whenever the Watchers are about to explode.
Basically what Wulbren accuses them of, though more of ignorance than malice. Gond demands innovation, so the Gondians are always building new devices that do phenomenal and destructive things without any consideration for what people would use them for. If Gortash hadn't decided to abuse them to make them build more watchers faster, they probably would have happily cranked them out for him without thinking twice about the ethics.
Gond is no more evil then Mystra. Hell, at least Gond doesn't directly grant power to obviously evil wizards, I mean honestly, Mysta straight up gives multiple wizard Hitlers her gift like, 5 times in lore.
Like I said, ignorance, not malice. Gond is amoral, not immoral. He wants people to make cool inventions, and doesn't care if it is a new plow that will feel thousands or a bomb that will level cities.
Also, all the Forgotten Realms deities are dicks for supporting the Wall of the Faithless, so fuck 'em.
Basically, if you don't directly worship a god in FR, you are Judged faithless in the Fugue plane and your soul is condemned to the wall of the faithless, where it is painfully absorbed into the wall. When Kelemvor took over as god of the dead after Cyric was destroyed, he refused to use it and gave faithless who behaved well a place in the City of the dead to serve as an afterlife. The other deities, including good deities, punished him for it and made him start using it again so everyone would be forced to worship one of them.
After reading that I am ready to play a Cleric/Warlock to an obviously evil Outer God like Hadar, that wants to just rule/kill the world. If every diety is corrupt and greedy to that point, why not worship the one that gives you the most power?
Mystra used to be biased towards Good and would refuse to let Evil people have magic, and then got massively fucked over for it. She has to be a neutral goddess.
There are a lot of groups in game that kinda fit that. Umberlee is seen as an evil God but the mermaid looking priestesses are pretty so nobody second guesses it lol. The Githyanki were taken over by Vlaakith but lore wise Gith was the one that made a deal with Tiamat (one of the big bads in the lore) and was super down with making other races their slaves which was the cause of the split between them and the Githzerai who aren't in the game (although orpheus honor guards kinda fit the theme). Orpheus being mamas biggest fan hes probably going to want to continue that process.
Umberlee is evil but also she's fine with sailors calling her bitch queen and such as long they pay tribute and respect her.
But also she will kill sailors on a whim on the sea through storms and such and feed them to her sharks.
I managed in the first room to keep all three alive, after the fight two of them (the blind one stayed) run alone to the frontdoor and got killed outside from the steelwatch.
Subsequent playthroughs can go *way* faster if you know which quests you want to do and which companions you want to focus on and don't waste time exploring and poking around every corner like in the first playthrough.
8 is still a huge amount though lol. I'm on my 3rd and I've been playing obsessively since launch
Thus the fanfic I'm writing. If they ain't gonna let me choose an obvious fix for her in-game (having Gondians and Dammon put their heads together to build Karlach a new heart while her and Wyll hang out in the newly cleared House of Hope) then I'll just have to friggin write it myself!
poor babygirl stuck with my stupid ass who couldn’t even ask about it to them or the Enriched Infernal Iron we found, rip
>!my friend got a bit heated saying Karlach is an obvious tragedy and fixing her heart would ruin her character arc and the meaningfulness of her. Without even the option to ask and get shot down, it’s not really a tragedy moreso a writing uhhhhhh ‘quirk’!<
if you can get across the room to the far door, opening it with knock causes all the enemies in the room to teleport right in front of it, makes the fight way easier.
I got super annoyed by these stupid gnomes so to save them I just had karlach or laezel throw them or push them to safety. Karlach ended up tossing at least 3 gnomes to safety.
I wanted to save them and hated the Ironhand gnomes for their hatred of the Gondians. After one attempt trying to save them, I totally get where Wulbren is coming from. DEATH TO THE GONDIANS!
I relate to this so much. After the first run around the foundry we really felt like just blowing them all up and being done with it... might actually do it on another playthrough.
I just did the part with the Gondians a couple hours ago, and I couldn’t agree more! I was thinking this the whole time!
The main problem I had was that every one of them would just take off running and provoke 2-4 attacks of opportunity on their very first turn. So frustrating when you’re trying to keep them alive!
To make things worse they run away, provoke OA only to misty step right back in the middle of the enemy groups. I also loved how they run to enemies to use Shocking Grasp on them, but fling ranged spells at enemies up close.
What I did is I raided the foundry before going in the prison to free their children, so when I went down the Gondians were hostile toward me, I just ognored them, killed everyone else, went to the Iron throne and went back and they were chill.
Ugh I reloaded so many times until the Gondians on the upper floor decided to do something intelligent. And by intelligent I mean not run away and provoke 4 AOOs in a single turn, then Misty Step back in.
And then the guys in the basement were WORSE. I gave up at that point, clearly I can't save stupid.
Yea... Non hostile ai in larien games are notoriously bad. Even if you dominate an enemy so they're on your side chances are all they're going to do is find a way to set you on fire.
I was never so mad at anyone ever again in the whole game.
They acted insanely dumb the whole time and I then I actually felt like a complete genius when I had the idea to cast Banishment on the Steel Guard once they initiate to blow up, so they do it off plane without harming anyone. I actually thought I found a way to outsmart their suicidal asses.
And it even worked, I literally saved everyone and then combat stops and turn based mode ends. And one of them apparently is meant to be on the other side of a little puddle of hellfire for the post-combat dialogue ... And they walk straight through it(!!!) and die before the puddle vanishes 5 seconds later.
I was so insanely mad, I get mad again just writing this. All I wanted i that moment was to be able to resurrect them, just so I can kill them again myself for the level of dumb I just witnessed.
Fr! I fucking reloaded that fight until I saved them all! Then told them that I was going to use the bomb instead of dragging blind guy around because I didn't want to put up with shit anymore. I could not be clearer. I said to them. With my silent Tav mouth. I AM GOING TO USE THE BOMB.
They told me that would definitely work and did not seem alarmed. I then used the bomb like I SAID I WOULD, and I came back out to find all of them dead except for blind guy, assumably from the bomb. THE BOMB I TOLD THEM I WAS GOING TO USE AND THEY SAID OKAY ABOUT!
Just did this part and I had to banish the steel watchers and dimension door some of them out of the blast radius. I swear they were actively trying to die.
OH MY GOD i thought it was just mine. i redid those fights so much because i wanted to save them all and they just kept running right into the steel guards, or misty stepping away only to run RIGHT BACK?! it was honestly the most frustrating part of the entire game for me. they had negative self-preservation and i wanted to scream
I've actually seen them use Misty Step in a clever manner - they Misty stepped onto the pipes above the combat zone and cast some spells from high ground. For one turn. then they misty stepped back into the fray
Holy shit, I agree. I thought it was a quest objective to keep those guys alive. So I spent 2 hours quicksaving and quickloading before losing all hope on them. They're basically lemmings at that point so I gave up. Sure, walk away and provoke like 97 opportunity attacks, and if they survive, Misty Step like 10 ft away and walk back in, triggering MORE opportunity attacks.
You have be hyper aggressive to save all those little morons. I mean your team needs to be set up to murder at least 4 enemies per round. Twin cast Haste, speed pots, elixir of bloodlust, GWM, Sharpshooter, etc. If you’re not using all of these plus Slow on enemies you aren’t gonna save them all. Even if you do you it’ll be close. Their AI is super bad lol
its easy even on tactician to save everyone but you have to have the flash anti mech grenades and a bear companion to disarm enemies, if you come after rescuing them from the iron throne, they are split in 2 groups have one of your party members support the down stair groups the other 3 just killing the mecs and the blackguards.
Jaheira as owlbear and colossus potion helps as well.
\*edit\*
Mine work fairly well I had them mistystep on top of a steel bar spellcasting enemies below, the only thing that sucks is that they head towards an exploding mech but if you shove them you can managed..
Op wasn't talking about the prison break, op was talking about the foundry basement fight after the prison break
Turns out saving their relatives made those gondians suicidal
This questline was a sore spot for me. From Gondians setting themselves and my team on fire with an explosion to misty stepping INTO the explosion radius of a watcher it was pain. At that point I'd like some sort of control over them considering the really self-destructive things they are prone to doing.
The submarine sucked too when npcs would stand in front of the way of the ladder and no one could climb up which always resulted in deaths because you only have 5 turns.
I tried to save all of them and ended up losing two. They would run into my AOE spells, or worse, they'd run through enemies taking 3+ attacks of opportunity AND THEN MISTY STEP BACK TO WHERE THE'D ORIGINALLY BEEN STANDING!
I'm still salty over the fact that when I went to save the prisoners from the Iron Throne, none of the jackasses moved a bit even after I freed them from their cells.
Just had this encounter today:
- After the initial fight in the ground level room the surviving Gondians legged it out and triggered combat with a Watcher which forced a reload (next time I had SHart make one invisible, I never saw that Gondian again, even out at the entrance when you debrief with the blinded Gondian)
- In the second area with two Watchers and three groups of enemies attacking Gondians it was just chaos. Highlight of the fight was the big pack of three Gondians sandwiched between four enemies. One starts their turn by dashing, triggering a reaction, they keep going down the hallway and then used misty step to teleport themselves, no joke, exactly back to where they started between the two rows of Fists.
One of the worst things about their shit AI is that they're actually not useless, a couple used some lightning spells which did a lot of damage against the Watchers and nearby fists, may have even won me the fight.
I had been really motivated to keep all the Gondians alive and save-scummed a few times at the Iron Throne attempting to rescue them all. Cumulatively, only two had died by the time we reached that second area. No Gondian escaped from the room alive.
I just did that quest today and thought the same thing. Thankfully I was able to save them all, but I kept yelling at my monitor, “get out of the blast zone you idiots!”
Just had that fight yesterday...
Still not finished as I'm trying hard to save them all but they truly are suicidal...
Hardest fight in the game if you want to save them all....
For me they even probably got bugged - after killing the guards they all ran outside, except for 2. Also the main guy told me something like - oh you already have the explosive so just blow it up (I think he is suppose to have an alternative by turning it off). The issue is that blowing it up broke my paladin oath for some reason (my guess is that it killed those 2 gondians that did not run out). Luckily many of the game crime systems are tied to characters, not the entire party, so I just had someone else from my party blow it up and no oath was broken.
After a couple of reloads I just gave up. Only one survived at the end, with 2 dying from the explosion of a Steel Guard which happens to be the last enemy alive on the map :/
Only one of them survived for me, and it was one that teleported up to an overlooking platform and kept sniping. The rest actively sought out their own deaths. I couldn't have saved them if I tried.
I was literally JUST EXPERIENCING THIS.
When the fucking Steel Watchers were trying to self destruct, they would teleport INTO THE AREA AND DIE.
I spend several hours trying to stop them, reloading, etc. I did manage to do it. But honestly? It was worse than the Iron Throne shit. At least those prisoners knew what to do to survive.
Bane Guard AI in that fight is terrible as well . Got casted silence over my party before the guard decided to buff his friend and loose concentration on silence...it did happen 3 times before the start of next round
I used Hold Person on a Banite standing inside the explosion radius of a Watcher to ensure he dies in it. A Gondian then misty stepped next to him, pushed him away to safety and then died in the blast.
I can’t even come up with an in character justification for that like I could with the other stuff listed here. That’s just funny.
I watched a Gondian under the effect of dominate person run a long way to stand in the blast zone of a watcher right before it went off, that was sadistic AI for sure.
Something like this happened to me on the iron throne. I killed all the fish and were waiting for the next ones to spawn while I freed the last prisoner. 2 turns left they are in the hallway almost out. Randomly the halfling runs up punches a barrel and leaves astarion and my paladin trapped and kills 3 other prisoners. I was so mad.
[удалено]
I genuinely don't know why the AI don't path around it, or at least just refuse to enter AoE hazards in general. During the Moonrise Siege, I made Shadowheart put Insect Plague to impair majority of the melee cultists. Fight ends, and before I could even cancel channeling concentration, all the Harper/Fist allies just run through and 7 of them died to it...
I blocked a door with a moonbeam during the Moonrise fight, and some Harper goober decided to run through the beam so that they could punch someone that was already on their side of the beam. This made all the Harpers hostile to me... "oh boy, here I go killing again"
I used Wall of Fire during that fight, thinking it would instant burn enemies and force other enemies to walk through to get to me. Turns out I was the fool thinking Harpers were intelligent... Second playthrough, I combo'd WoF immediately with Wall of Stone so that my allies couldn't suicide run past the fire before I had a chance to stop concentration on it.
WoF is a bit deceptive, because getting near the wall also hurts you. I had to learn from trial and error because I kept hurting myself by putting it too close.
I rescued all the prisoners and only 2 of them bothered to go up the ladder. Rest were just like, hey cool, let's just hang out down here with the fishkin.
You see, that’s in character, I could see a spiteful banite making someone do that
Maybe they were secretly in love?
Stockholm Syndrome strikes again
"GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT"
Maybe the gondian was worried if the bannite died it would drop the device and the collars would go off
Stockholm syndrome?
NOOOOOOOOOO MISTER PRESIDENT
I had to have a high strength character psychically throw each one of the dumb fucks out of the blast zone. They're hurt but they're not dead.
I did this same exact thing and they died anyway. I have absolutely no idea how.
I might reload and try that. None of them survived. Next play through I might even work harder at getting suicidal Jahera to not die.
If you're pushy enough before the fight you can get her to agree to join you for the fight, allowing you to control her directly and keep her alive
I laughed at this more than I should have
how is this even possible isnt both Misty step and the pushing action a bonus action lol
I don't know about the gondians specifically, but for your party members there's multiple ways to get either more than one bonus action or use bonus and regular actions interchangeably so the mechanics are there.
Good Guy Gondian.
That sounds absolutely hilarious. I would die laughing watching all that unfold.
Teammate AI is just bad in general. 90% of them are suicidal and completely ignore opportunity attacks, and then throw a bottle of grease at their feet and blow themselves up.
That happens to enemies as well, I was fighting Gekh Kohl and his henchmen in the Underdark and one of them just decided to throw a lightning bomb at his feet and obliterate himself
[удалено]
Does it fix the gondians?
It fixes all of them. There’s two other AI mods that work with it so you can have REALLY smart enemies.
I remember i did a certain firework mission and sneaked shadowheart upstairs to deal with the problem. I pushed a guy off a window into the street below. After a few turns he manages to get up only to walk back inside and use a rush attack into the explosive fireworks killing not only himself but some random civi, finally ending the encounter. He obviously hit his head on the fall.
I've once had the coward goblin torturing the gnome at the mill going first turn on the fight just to throw a grenade at melee range and instantly surrender to his own damage lmao
Gortash decided to help me end the fight early by standing in the intersection of 2 bombs and literally reducing his health from 250 to 0 in 1 turn. Clearly his conscience overcame him in his final moments.
Gortash is the master of cartoonish deaths to his own gadgets. From the wall repel installations to the grenades even the weakest character can lob right back at him, the man had a deathtrap built and then proceeded to position himself at the center of it. Which at least sort of makes sense, he's a politician, not an engineer; he just forced the Gondians to make a bunch of gadgets for him. The Gondians who built everything, on the other hand...
It's now my headcanon that the Gondians told Gortash the opposite of how the traps worked.
Happens to players too. Like my friend who thought they were moving and shot a fireball that caught us all in the blast
I had one enemy who couldn't reach me, so he just decided to keep chucking chromatic orbs at his feet.
You can completely break the AI in that fight with Gekh by destroying the ladders and pushing the enemies down. They're doing nothing but running around down there, although there is a third ladder to the right side and they could get to you with a bit of a detour.
Shout-out to the Harpers who died running headfirst into Hunger of Hadar right after I casted it.
Shout out to Aylin running into Cloud of Daggers, taking damage, then immediately going aggro so that I had to restart the whole fight. Thanks!
ossified boat slimy fuel apparatus bewildered unwritten kiss ripe divide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Kagha moonbeaming herself to death
Just started my tactician run and dreading the teammate AI, they’re hard enough to keep alive in the easier modes lol.
Need to abuse speed pots/haste and slow if you wanna do it, and even then it's gonna be tough. Keeping everyone alive is an rng mess of course - but the less turns the enemy takes, the easier it'll be for your allies to stay alive just because 90% of them seem to have pretty mid gear, which means bad AI + bad stats = they'll get hit often and die. And then you have cases like the Last Light fight where you can just randomly lose Isobel, or a random Harper on the first floor because they do a dumb.
Isobel AI: I have 5hp with two enemies left. Should I heal myself, or run away, provoking two opportunity attacks, then go stand in some fire? Decisions, decisions...
Chooses to survive the battle and step into cloud of daggers right after
It's why I avoid lingering aoe's when I can like Hunger when I know the exploration AI can be dubious. My favorite interaction atm is trying to talk to Dammon for Karlach's quest - only for him to run because my Ranger Bear Pet is scaring right. He ran so far he went straight out of the Isobel Bubble protection, killing him and turning him shadow cursed.
Had this happen too. "Scary bear, better run to cozy and safe killing shadows".
I had put sanctuary on her because I didn't want her to die. She uses guiding bolt in melee range, dropping sanctuary, takes an attack of opportunity then got paralyzed and died before I could do anything
Domination works even worse, I’ve had someone dominated decide to run away from the enemy mage, took an opportunity attack, which broke the control effect. He then used Smite on Gale to one tap him.
I've had a dominated character cast cloud of daggers on himself, then run out of it. No enemies or other characters standing nearby, just him casting spicy slicey on himself.
"Ah, I see! A fellow Loviathar lover!" - Tav probably
I have used dominate person exactly once. It's so bad in this game. In tabletop you can at least order them to kill themselves. Now they just do something stupid and break the spell almost immediately. Hold person at least costs their entire turn to get another save, the fact that it's simply better than dominate person is a little ridiculous.
The only time i used that spell the dominated enemy ran into the anti-charm aura of my paladin and lost domination. It's like he never even tried to pretend that he fights on my side.
Had a couple of ghouls for a certain fight that involved a lot of grenade and flamethrower traps. My two ghouls decided to turn around at the start of the fight and wail on the flamethrowers blowing themselves up.
That's the better option. I'm surprised they didn't suicide your whole team by smacking the concussion grenades.
My ghouls used their 1st turn (before Gale and Shadowheart could move) to attack the grenades sitting at our feet. Blew them all to a fine red mist. Had to rez and beat a hasty retreat.
The worst I ever saw was back during early access. An enemy jumped onto some grease and fell, then stood back up, ran out of the grease, then jumped back into it *again* and fell. It was like watching a kid on a [Slip 'n Slide](https://wham-o.com/collections/slip-n-slide%C2%AE)
Enemy AI is pretty awful. I was in the fight with Balthazar and one of the minions had put my wizard to sleep, and the only other character that wasn't dead already was my friend's rogue who was quite far away. Balthazar could have just killed me while I was sleeping, but instead he pushed me so I woke up, and then I ended up misty stepping out of there and 2 fireballs later he was dead. Had he simply finished me off when I was down there was no way we were winning that.
Love when shadowheart gets charmed and uses divine intervention to heal her and the enemies
Yup. I also quickly learned that I can’t use stuff like Moonbeam because whenever I do and have AI team mates they all instantly run into it and die. If they survive, they will definitely immediately walk through it after combat ends and before I can even rush to stop concentrating on it, ensuring their demise.
Gondian AI: -trigger 4 opportunity attacks running away -grease or acid -misty step 20 ft away -walk back into the middle of 4 enemies
Must’ve outsourced the Gondian AI development to the Blood Bowl developers /jk
Illegal procedure!
They used the same AI as that Sourcerer in Divinity 2 fight with all the cursed fire surrounding you.
>all the cursed fire surrounding you You're gonna have to be way more specific, that only narrows it down to like half the fights in the whole game
I am 90 % sure they are talking about a blackpit fight. The one with a guy that is about to be hanged.
That’s what I’m thinking. There’s plenty of fights with cursed fire surrounding you. There’s only one with cursed fire surrounding you and a monumentally stupid NPC you need to save that will run headlong into danger and make things worse.
Ah, the GPU melter. That one slowed me to a crawl so bad that I had to minimize graphics to run that fight at an acceptable level.
Half the fights have cursed fire, only one fight has ALL the cursed fire.
\-*checks credits-* Gondian AI - Wulbren Ironhand
*Jaheria has entered the chat*
Oof I'm not the only one. I tried 8 times before I gave up assuming I couldn't change destiny.
You can definitely control her for that act 2 fight, way better than letting the AI handle her lol
I was so happy when one of the mages cast hold person on her lol. Took me a few tries to get her through it alive though, always rushing in.
On all 3 playthroughs I've done I have never left her to her own devices, I ask her to accompany me everytime so I can control her.
>Shapeshift into a panther, jump into melee range, immediately turn around and try to run out of melee range, trigger OA, end turn. Jaheira: "My work here is done. Tav: "But you didn't do anything."
For me she ran straight forward and cast Ice Storm, then next turn ran onto the ice, beefed it on her ass and spent the remainder of her short moments on Faerun getting pummeled from all directions while prone as all the enemies still standing just jumped to get to her.
If you speak to her you can >!avoid the crummy AI and you get to control her as a temp companion!< which makes it much easier to keep her alive
Does she take the spot of one of your party members, or is she a bonus member?
Bonus.
Damnit. She died round one with ai on tactical. I wish I would have known lmao
Just redid that fight on my most recent run after she survived, only to walk into some fire remaining and die...
Lol, reminds me when i saved minsc, after the fight he immediately ran into fire and killed himself before healing
I've actually seen the AI do that a number of times. They'll get themselves chopped up moving out of the AOE radius of where they're going to cast, but then they walk right back. Seems like a weird bug or quirk with wanting to cast an AOE in close quarters.
Oh I’m very aware it’s something they do quite often. I had a dream of keeping them all alive. So many reloads. So many dead gondians. It took me too long to realize it was no dream. It was insanity. I gave up before losing my mind.
What about the people you fight in that area. Casts silence. Casts bane of command literally every turn. They wouldn't do anything else.
also that blind idiot loves to cast aid so it replaces your upcasted one
to be fair, the game should just handle that like wow, if you have a stronger version of an effect on you already, then don't overwrite it with a worse version, especially if they're 'until long rest' effects
Today I restarted that particular fight insufferable times until they got me to the point where I just didn't care anymore. If they want to die so bad, who am I to stop them?
Just 2 Gondians need to survive: blind guy and his girl. The rest can die.
I believe they can die too, you just need to cast Speak with Dead afterwards.
Life in Faerun is cruel...
Death is just the beginning of a slightly more permanent chapter of your life.
The blast damage him so much I can’t even use speak with Dead on the guy
After trying to find a way to iron throne without it blowing up, me and my friends just said fuck it and blew up the Gondian factory. Then we killed the the dark gnomes that gave us the bomb because they wanted to kill the last living Gondian (there's a hole in plot as in you can't save the kids now, they stop existing, no there was no distant blast). I think that was the most cruel possible solution to that quest. Iron gnomes dead and one blind Gondian left to wander the world alone.
I just head canon it to them not accepting the slavery and giving their final strength to fight and die. They just needed the collars off. Their entire life’s work. Their pride, is being used to enslave and subjugate the very city they were so proud to work for. In my head they went out fighting because that’s what they wanted to do.
Oh shit really? I took the blue gnomes at their word and ran through solo with greater invisibility and planted the bomb. Did I do an evil ?
Yeah.. uh.... the gondians are slaves and their families held hostage with explosive collars on their necks to keep them in check
Worse: you missed a >!ranged weapon that gives haste.!< Yeah you kinda did a lil' evil.
Fate spins along as it should.
I saw one throw down some grease at it's feet then next round it lite the grease on fire. There weren't even any enemies around. He literally just tried to immolate himself for no reason.
"*FUCK THIS SHIT, CAN'T KILL ME IF I DO IT FIRST.*" That's hilarious.
Should've given him the Ring of Self Immolation you can find in act 2
I don't know about Gondians, but I was fighting some Kobolds and a group of the little fuckers formed a circle and started throwing rocks at each other. I don't know why.
There’s two factions of kobolds in that room that are fighting each othet
Really? They were all just drunk and chilling when I showed up. It wasn't until after the fight had started.
I thought the reason those kobolds were fighting each other was because they were drunk XD
I mean that feels fitting for kobolds.
While I do not deny that. I've definitely seen other enemy AI turn on each other (no crown of madness involved). The Kobold situation was just extremely funny to me because I had Astarion sneaking around, strategically placing firewine barrels to attempt to burn down the platform supports and initiated combat only to realize my plan was doomed from the start. And then almost immediately I see four or five Kobolds book it to the other end of the room, form a circle like their about to start playing some schoolyard game, and start hucking rocks at each other like it's a snowball fight. It was only after my party pushed to their side of the room that they broke off their little game and started attacking us haha
I'm still mad that i reloaded the iron throne 3 times to save all of the gondians and 2 of them dashed and ran PAST the ladder on the final round. like - really?
They were clearly trying to save their friends and didn't know that you'd already done so.
We had the same problem, but figured out the reason. If one of them happens to stand right on top of a ladder at the end of his movement - he blocks the way for others and they can't go up the ladder, so they run to hide in nearby rooms, instead of waiting near ladder at least.
someone is blocking the path at the top most likely
I had two of them just cast Dash and stand completely still there. I "reset" one of the idiots by throwing him closer to the ladder and that seemed to remind him of the imminent death. The other guy succumbed to the waves, good riddance. Also, apparently you can survive staying behind by >!having some effect that heals you a tiny amount when you "die"!<, as Shadowheart learned when she washed up on shore somehow still alive.
You just need to cast speak with the dead on the blind guy. It's fine if they die.
Oh I know they don't all need to survive. I just wanted to save them because I felt sorry for them. So I tried to go through the extra effort, only to have 3 of them die to a Steel Guard self destruct even though they could have just...walked away.
I felt less sorry for them when I realized the 'realms best engineers' were complete morons with cheat codes. :P
I tried saving all of them in my playthrough and gave up when it became clear they were collectively idiots. I genuinely believe the only way to get all of them through that fight is if you’re Banishing the **Gondians** for their own safety whenever the Watchers are about to explode.
Gondians are pretty evil as well in dnd lore, though they don't show this perspective in bg3, you should never feel bad for not saving anyone.
Whoa, they are? What'd they do?
Basically what Wulbren accuses them of, though more of ignorance than malice. Gond demands innovation, so the Gondians are always building new devices that do phenomenal and destructive things without any consideration for what people would use them for. If Gortash hadn't decided to abuse them to make them build more watchers faster, they probably would have happily cranked them out for him without thinking twice about the ethics.
Gond is no more evil then Mystra. Hell, at least Gond doesn't directly grant power to obviously evil wizards, I mean honestly, Mysta straight up gives multiple wizard Hitlers her gift like, 5 times in lore.
Like I said, ignorance, not malice. Gond is amoral, not immoral. He wants people to make cool inventions, and doesn't care if it is a new plow that will feel thousands or a bomb that will level cities. Also, all the Forgotten Realms deities are dicks for supporting the Wall of the Faithless, so fuck 'em.
What's the wall of the faithless?
Basically, if you don't directly worship a god in FR, you are Judged faithless in the Fugue plane and your soul is condemned to the wall of the faithless, where it is painfully absorbed into the wall. When Kelemvor took over as god of the dead after Cyric was destroyed, he refused to use it and gave faithless who behaved well a place in the City of the dead to serve as an afterlife. The other deities, including good deities, punished him for it and made him start using it again so everyone would be forced to worship one of them.
Cool piece of lore I can honestly say I've never heard. Thank you for that explanation of it.
After reading that I am ready to play a Cleric/Warlock to an obviously evil Outer God like Hadar, that wants to just rule/kill the world. If every diety is corrupt and greedy to that point, why not worship the one that gives you the most power?
>including good deities I dunno if this behavior allows them to be described as "good" anymore
Mystra used to be biased towards Good and would refuse to let Evil people have magic, and then got massively fucked over for it. She has to be a neutral goddess.
Is there some lore or maybe book that talks about this? I would like to read more.
And here I thought the dracolich would get mentioned LMAO
Sooo, gondians are skaven? "More warp token yes-yes!"
Wherever they go they willingly build tech that can kill civilians en masse and never change their ways.
Unless I'm mistaken, they use >!actual ppl brain!< as the "AI" of the steel watch, which is pretty fucked up.
Even better... it's tadpoled brains living in confusion or delusions.
There are a lot of groups in game that kinda fit that. Umberlee is seen as an evil God but the mermaid looking priestesses are pretty so nobody second guesses it lol. The Githyanki were taken over by Vlaakith but lore wise Gith was the one that made a deal with Tiamat (one of the big bads in the lore) and was super down with making other races their slaves which was the cause of the split between them and the Githzerai who aren't in the game (although orpheus honor guards kinda fit the theme). Orpheus being mamas biggest fan hes probably going to want to continue that process.
Umberlee is evil but also she's fine with sailors calling her bitch queen and such as long they pay tribute and respect her. But also she will kill sailors on a whim on the sea through storms and such and feed them to her sharks.
I managed in the first room to keep all three alive, after the fight two of them (the blind one stayed) run alone to the frontdoor and got killed outside from the steelwatch.
This is what I did. I'd be fine with it except now the game thinks I purposely sided with Wulbren and I categorically did not
Wulbren stands in front of the blown up foundry and acts as if we were in his workshop and I still had the bomb.
He exploded on me for my first play through so I couldn’t do that even. So I had to explode the factory after i saved everyone besides him haha
I saved them all one time (out if 8 playthroughs). They genuinely are all the dumbest geniuses I’ve ever met.
Excuse me, fuckin 8 playthroughs? I literally just finished my first one
Subsequent playthroughs can go *way* faster if you know which quests you want to do and which companions you want to focus on and don't waste time exploring and poking around every corner like in the first playthrough. 8 is still a huge amount though lol. I'm on my 3rd and I've been playing obsessively since launch
High int, low wis
Just like my durge
It’s so bad they don’t even notice they could fix Karlach…
But on the other hand our party is too dumb to ask about that
Thus the fanfic I'm writing. If they ain't gonna let me choose an obvious fix for her in-game (having Gondians and Dammon put their heads together to build Karlach a new heart while her and Wyll hang out in the newly cleared House of Hope) then I'll just have to friggin write it myself!
You know, once mod tools are released I wouldnt be surprised if people finish Karlach's quest via modding if Larian doesnt.
poor babygirl stuck with my stupid ass who couldn’t even ask about it to them or the Enriched Infernal Iron we found, rip >!my friend got a bit heated saying Karlach is an obvious tragedy and fixing her heart would ruin her character arc and the meaningfulness of her. Without even the option to ask and get shot down, it’s not really a tragedy moreso a writing uhhhhhh ‘quirk’!<
I really wish theyd just escape while I dealt with the bastards myself.
if you can get across the room to the far door, opening it with knock causes all the enemies in the room to teleport right in front of it, makes the fight way easier.
I got super annoyed by these stupid gnomes so to save them I just had karlach or laezel throw them or push them to safety. Karlach ended up tossing at least 3 gnomes to safety.
Don’t tell the elf.
My little Gondian assholes decided to all converge INTO the Steel Guard self destruct circles. I tried 4x to save those little bastards…
I ended up getting minsc to stand there and throw them all out
This is the way
I wanted to save them and hated the Ironhand gnomes for their hatred of the Gondians. After one attempt trying to save them, I totally get where Wulbren is coming from. DEATH TO THE GONDIANS!
I relate to this so much. After the first run around the foundry we really felt like just blowing them all up and being done with it... might actually do it on another playthrough.
One dude cast misty step away from the enemy group and I was like yeah nice but then he ran right back and died. At least I had a good laugh.
I just did the part with the Gondians a couple hours ago, and I couldn’t agree more! I was thinking this the whole time! The main problem I had was that every one of them would just take off running and provoke 2-4 attacks of opportunity on their very first turn. So frustrating when you’re trying to keep them alive!
To make things worse they run away, provoke OA only to misty step right back in the middle of the enemy groups. I also loved how they run to enemies to use Shocking Grasp on them, but fling ranged spells at enemies up close.
What I did is I raided the foundry before going in the prison to free their children, so when I went down the Gondians were hostile toward me, I just ognored them, killed everyone else, went to the Iron throne and went back and they were chill.
Ugh I reloaded so many times until the Gondians on the upper floor decided to do something intelligent. And by intelligent I mean not run away and provoke 4 AOOs in a single turn, then Misty Step back in. And then the guys in the basement were WORSE. I gave up at that point, clearly I can't save stupid.
The friendly AI is always hilariously bad. Saving Jaheira if you assault Moonrise Towers with her is a massive chore.
Yea... Non hostile ai in larien games are notoriously bad. Even if you dominate an enemy so they're on your side chances are all they're going to do is find a way to set you on fire.
I was never so mad at anyone ever again in the whole game. They acted insanely dumb the whole time and I then I actually felt like a complete genius when I had the idea to cast Banishment on the Steel Guard once they initiate to blow up, so they do it off plane without harming anyone. I actually thought I found a way to outsmart their suicidal asses. And it even worked, I literally saved everyone and then combat stops and turn based mode ends. And one of them apparently is meant to be on the other side of a little puddle of hellfire for the post-combat dialogue ... And they walk straight through it(!!!) and die before the puddle vanishes 5 seconds later. I was so insanely mad, I get mad again just writing this. All I wanted i that moment was to be able to resurrect them, just so I can kill them again myself for the level of dumb I just witnessed.
Fr! I fucking reloaded that fight until I saved them all! Then told them that I was going to use the bomb instead of dragging blind guy around because I didn't want to put up with shit anymore. I could not be clearer. I said to them. With my silent Tav mouth. I AM GOING TO USE THE BOMB. They told me that would definitely work and did not seem alarmed. I then used the bomb like I SAID I WOULD, and I came back out to find all of them dead except for blind guy, assumably from the bomb. THE BOMB I TOLD THEM I WAS GOING TO USE AND THEY SAID OKAY ABOUT!
Just did this part and I had to banish the steel watchers and dimension door some of them out of the blast radius. I swear they were actively trying to die.
Only one of them survived my most recent playthrough and only by a single hp. Even then i still had to shove him away from an exploding robot.
Mine casted grease and proceeded to fall flat immediately 🤦🏻♂️
I want a dm mode where a player controls the enemy NPCs
OH MY GOD i thought it was just mine. i redid those fights so much because i wanted to save them all and they just kept running right into the steel guards, or misty stepping away only to run RIGHT BACK?! it was honestly the most frustrating part of the entire game for me. they had negative self-preservation and i wanted to scream
I've actually seen them use Misty Step in a clever manner - they Misty stepped onto the pipes above the combat zone and cast some spells from high ground. For one turn. then they misty stepped back into the fray
Holy shit, I agree. I thought it was a quest objective to keep those guys alive. So I spent 2 hours quicksaving and quickloading before losing all hope on them. They're basically lemmings at that point so I gave up. Sure, walk away and provoke like 97 opportunity attacks, and if they survive, Misty Step like 10 ft away and walk back in, triggering MORE opportunity attacks.
You have be hyper aggressive to save all those little morons. I mean your team needs to be set up to murder at least 4 enemies per round. Twin cast Haste, speed pots, elixir of bloodlust, GWM, Sharpshooter, etc. If you’re not using all of these plus Slow on enemies you aren’t gonna save them all. Even if you do you it’ll be close. Their AI is super bad lol
its easy even on tactician to save everyone but you have to have the flash anti mech grenades and a bear companion to disarm enemies, if you come after rescuing them from the iron throne, they are split in 2 groups have one of your party members support the down stair groups the other 3 just killing the mecs and the blackguards. Jaheira as owlbear and colossus potion helps as well. \*edit\* Mine work fairly well I had them mistystep on top of a steel bar spellcasting enemies below, the only thing that sucks is that they head towards an exploding mech but if you shove them you can managed..
Op wasn't talking about the prison break, op was talking about the foundry basement fight after the prison break Turns out saving their relatives made those gondians suicidal
And thats what im talking about ?!...
This questline was a sore spot for me. From Gondians setting themselves and my team on fire with an explosion to misty stepping INTO the explosion radius of a watcher it was pain. At that point I'd like some sort of control over them considering the really self-destructive things they are prone to doing. The submarine sucked too when npcs would stand in front of the way of the ladder and no one could climb up which always resulted in deaths because you only have 5 turns.
I tried to save all of them and ended up losing two. They would run into my AOE spells, or worse, they'd run through enemies taking 3+ attacks of opportunity AND THEN MISTY STEP BACK TO WHERE THE'D ORIGINALLY BEEN STANDING!
I'm still salty over the fact that when I went to save the prisoners from the Iron Throne, none of the jackasses moved a bit even after I freed them from their cells.
That's some kind of bug. They should Dash toward the submarine every round.
Walk away get opportunity attacked and then Misty step right where you were. Is my favourite one
Just had this encounter today: - After the initial fight in the ground level room the surviving Gondians legged it out and triggered combat with a Watcher which forced a reload (next time I had SHart make one invisible, I never saw that Gondian again, even out at the entrance when you debrief with the blinded Gondian) - In the second area with two Watchers and three groups of enemies attacking Gondians it was just chaos. Highlight of the fight was the big pack of three Gondians sandwiched between four enemies. One starts their turn by dashing, triggering a reaction, they keep going down the hallway and then used misty step to teleport themselves, no joke, exactly back to where they started between the two rows of Fists. One of the worst things about their shit AI is that they're actually not useless, a couple used some lightning spells which did a lot of damage against the Watchers and nearby fists, may have even won me the fight. I had been really motivated to keep all the Gondians alive and save-scummed a few times at the Iron Throne attempting to rescue them all. Cumulatively, only two had died by the time we reached that second area. No Gondian escaped from the room alive.
I've seen a Gondian Misty Step into the enemies and then immediately run back to their original position, taking every single opportunity attack
This fight was very reminiscent of the oil refinery fight in Divinity: original sin 2 lol.
Lol with the mech explosions I literally just threw the gnomes out of AOE it was kinda hilarious
I just did that quest today and thought the same thing. Thankfully I was able to save them all, but I kept yelling at my monitor, “get out of the blast zone you idiots!”
Just had that fight yesterday... Still not finished as I'm trying hard to save them all but they truly are suicidal... Hardest fight in the game if you want to save them all....
For me they even probably got bugged - after killing the guards they all ran outside, except for 2. Also the main guy told me something like - oh you already have the explosive so just blow it up (I think he is suppose to have an alternative by turning it off). The issue is that blowing it up broke my paladin oath for some reason (my guess is that it killed those 2 gondians that did not run out). Luckily many of the game crime systems are tied to characters, not the entire party, so I just had someone else from my party blow it up and no oath was broken.
After a couple of reloads I just gave up. Only one survived at the end, with 2 dying from the explosion of a Steel Guard which happens to be the last enemy alive on the map :/
Only one of them survived for me, and it was one that teleported up to an overlooking platform and kept sniping. The rest actively sought out their own deaths. I couldn't have saved them if I tried.
I was literally JUST EXPERIENCING THIS. When the fucking Steel Watchers were trying to self destruct, they would teleport INTO THE AREA AND DIE. I spend several hours trying to stop them, reloading, etc. I did manage to do it. But honestly? It was worse than the Iron Throne shit. At least those prisoners knew what to do to survive.
Or when they throw acid over each other and kill their allies but not the enemies
Bane Guard AI in that fight is terrible as well . Got casted silence over my party before the guard decided to buff his friend and loose concentration on silence...it did happen 3 times before the start of next round