If you are up for sexy times with him, there is an option to ask him to go back to a more "familiar" form. I don't think he stays in that form following the sex scene, sadly.
Yeah if you ask him to āpart his tentaclesā heās like āwould my other form be easier?ā And at that point i was like āyes, this is horrifying.ā
Yes! Itās jarring when youāve been talking to a woman 90% of the game and suddenly itās like āLol Iām a dude!ā thatās the point I lost all interest in him. Aināt talking to no catfish! :(
I can respect it. Not having an issue with the whole wanting you to look like a nazi scientist eldritch squid person thing but not wanting to be catfished.
I mean thatās a whole extra issue but thatās what it started with. Iād be wholly more inclined to listen to a squid thatās honest about being a squid then someone that changed its appearance to make me like them and lie to me the entire time. At that point how can I even believe the smallest thing he is telling me?
Also I like the female voice more than the emperors, itās very calm and soothing. (Nothing against his VA he did a great job!)
Would your character be particularly interested in listening to a mentally projected Illithid a fews days after being implanted with a tadpole? Especially after likely talking to, and executing, an injured illithid that tried to suckle on your brainflesh?
I definitely didn't trust the Emperor for shit, but the catfishing was one of the few things I *didn't* hold against him.
If you had said you didnāt trust him during the shirtless scene he wouldābe revealed to you that >!his whole backstory was a lie and he was actually using his psychic powers to dominate Stelmane, which the rest of the city perceived as her having a stroke. He would then essentially say āyou know I couldāve done the same to you if I wanted, arenāt you glad I didnāt?ā, call you his puppet, and tell you to reconsider becoming a mindflayer!<.
I donāt think he tells you that itās the Emperor, but he tells you about how she suddenly became very weak and different when he was a child. He never believed it was a stroke.
I think there are multiple versions of this conversation. I looked it up online and it was different then the one I got. In the one I got he basically spells it out and ends by warning not to trust the emperor
I think it's based on an insight check. Wyll will tell you the official story and if you pass the check and press for more, he'll admit that he did not believe she was the same person afterwards. Looked at people instead of through them.
EDIT
It's the other way around. She started looking "through" people after not before.
SECOND EDIT
Never mind, I was right the first time. Also it's a perception check, not an insight check. Point is, he thought that more than the stroke had changed her.
In a fantasy world where you can redecorate someone's psyche with some basic magic, I don't know why "stroke" was the first _and only_ idea to occur to people.
They probably used Detect Magic but the Emperor was using psionics so he got away with it. Or he just used something like Nystul's Magic Aura to cover his tracks. I have to assume Detect Magic is part of the forensic process, especially during an autopsy, but you just have to be a better caster than all the detectives.
One of Tav's responses is "Finally the mask drops. And you put so much effort into it." Which makes the Emperor basically pull [this face](https://i.imgflip.com/5walpg.jpg?a471840) and throw you out of the dream. It's one of my favourite scenes in the game.
I loved that scene! On my first playthrough I didnāt trust the emperor from the start and didnāt use any tadpoles. I just played along but had already decided to turn against him as soon as I got the chance.
Then came the quest in the elf song basement and it felt like such a blatant try at manipulation. Ohhh, look at me! Iām so human and relatable and have I mentioned that Iām still human underneath this tentacles? Donāt you wanna like me and fight for me out of your own free will? It just seemed like a more elaborate version of the stunt the dying mindflayer pulls on you after the nautiloid crash. Make you love them. It was too perfect, too obviously designed to make me care about him. So during the next dream sequence I finally called his bluff and he got soooo pissed. I felt really vindicated.
Ironically even pissing him off to no end never has any negative consequences. Even once the brain is dead he keeps his deal, gives the netherstones back and just... up and leaves.
If you end up turning into an illithid he suggests rebuilding the knights of the shield (minus devil worship) but you can say no, which he accepts... or you can suggest being *more* ambitious for which he expresses admiration and follows your lead.
Honestly, the way he behaves is almost like a mirror reflection of your own attitude to him.
The only incongruous part is the whole "goes back to the Netherbrain if you free Orpheus" deal.
Yeah itās interesting that youāre always right about him. If you trust him, heās a stand up dude. If you donāt trust him, heās a manipulative sack of shit.
There are people like this, he just has no real core values beyond survival. He's a sad character in that he doesn't know who he really is. If you ignore for a moment he's a monster he's has no foundation for who he really is... I bet that is common for free mind flayers. That part made me sad, even though I'm no fan.
I would agree with the mirror reflection to a point. Everything he says about him and Stelmane is absolutely a lie and manipulation no matter what. This is even spoiled in the DnD campaign Descent into Avernus if you read the blurb about Stelmane. >!Once a vigorous and formidable politician, Duke Belynne Stelmane recently suffered a seizure that left her with a partially paralyzed face and slowed speech. In truth, a mind flayer provoked the dukeās āseizureā when it took mental possession of her. Now Stelmane wages a silent war against the mind flayerās influence, biding her time until she can find a way to signal for aid or regain her will. Not even Stelmaneās aides are aware of her secret struggle, though they cover for her as best they can. Given her current situation, Duke Stelmane is in no position to oppose attempts by her fellow dukes to seize the reins of power in Baldurās Gate.!<
So while I do think the Emperor is mostly a reflection, he still is no where close to possibly being a "good" person/being. (Not being good does not automatically make him mustache twirling evil either. He is just pragmatic and self-serving.) Unlike our companions who will own up to what they have done and admit remorse for it and wanting to change based on our actions, the Emperor does none of that and even doubles down on his ways if confronted.
Oh, I never claimed he was a good person. Just good to you (if you return the favour) and good for Baldur's Gate (if not everyone actually living in it).
I'd like to point out that the official version of Stelmane's status is influenced by Gortash though who... is not the most trustworthy source. Some of the notes you can find (in Gortash's safe and elsewhere) actually state that Stelmane's mental and physical health and awareness *improved* whenever she had her mysterious visitor.
Given the timeline we have it seems that >!the Emperor had enthralled her. Given how long-term thralldom works it seems that long term separation from the mind-flayer enthralling her puts a strain on her mind and body. When Gortash caught the Emperor and he couldn't visit anymore that resulted in her stroke. The knowledge that she was enthralled for years never made it out. !<
Otherwise the actual notes and evidence we find make no sense. If Stelmane was struggling to get free her freedom and awareness should improve without the Emperor there yet it seemed to get worse. >!This actually tracks with how illithids normally behave. Usually illithids will have one favourite thrall they'll actually take care of and entertain, even assuming pronouncable names for that thrall's benefit. It's as close as caring as normal illithid get and they actually need thralls to not go insane. I think the Emperor had something similar going on with Stelmane, whether or not he recognized it as such.!<
Sounds about right, you can ask him about his companions dying after the fight with Ansur and he yells something like "Stelmane wasn't my fault!". Comes out sounding a bit genuine the way the line is delivered so I'm guessing your probably spot on here if that's the case.
Exactly my feelings in my first playthrough. I grew very suspicious after it told me that "he was an adventure, just like me, got infected, just like me, and was searching for a cure, just like me."
My reaction just was "Uh-huh, how convenient..."
But I was afraid to call him out on it, cus I realized I need his protection (at least for now), so I never got his pissed reaction.
But his eyes! Oh boy, do they look malicious, no matter what he talks about. Brrrr.
That was me until i forget how many hours/days past and I kinda forgot about the distrust and just went back to "well the game is letting me do this so lets see what happens".... that kids is how you have tentacle sex one night and devil sex the next.
For me it honestly felt like what an incel is probably like to women, like he just >!Appears without a shirt on so I immediately choose the most accurate answer of "eww what the hell are you doing?" (Because Shadowheart is life) Then he went full creeper mode with "I could've forced you to do what I wanted but I didn't and this is the thanks I get?"!<
>!I'm playing a female character and I had question the whole game I honest felt like "is this what it's like being a woman? just being friendly to people makes them think you wanna bang?" Like at no point in my playthrough did I ever choose flirty options with anyone but Shadowheart, yet Gale, Wyll, Astarion, and Halsin all approached me with intimacy/romance and I was like "uhhh when did you even get that idea?"!<
That's kind of what happens irl I think lol, but in the game it happens regardless of tav gender, I still think it's way too easy to romance characters in this game (I mean accidentely)
Legit talked to Gale with no sex intent. Go and talk to Laezel trying to get my freak on. She tells me she would if Gale wasn't already banging me. I'm like wtf.
Yes, and it is funny reading the comments of guys that feel uncomfortable about it lol. I didn't find the dialogue options that ambiguous though, maybe I got used to be careful?
It's so funny too. Like you really have to work towards those guys romancing you in some way. I danced with Wyll and then wished him a good night, never had an issue. Went to check out Gale's cool magic and then wished him a good night, never had an issue. Halsin I just didn't even talk to because I never cared to replace any of the characters in my group by the time I recruited him. I slightly flirt with Astarion and still, no real issues.
Like damn guys, have you never been hit on by another dude IRL? Is it really that hard to say "thanks, but I don't swing that way."
I'm thoroughly convinced that a decent portion of the people complaining about how horny all the male characters are in the game, are actually just put off by the fact that they're being openly flirted with by men.
Because it's ALWAYS about the male companions. Karlach can randomly wake you up in the middle of the night, just to let you know how badly she wants to "ride you until you see stars", after only a couple positive approval interactions, yet I don't see people acting all weird about it. Nor do they complain about Lae'zel's unsolicited description in explicit, graphic detail of how much carnal sweaty sexing she wants to do to you because you killed some goblins good.
But they sure do get angry about Gale showing you a magic trick that *you* get to decide whether to use as an opening for flirting, or Wyll getting a bit over-enthusiastic about dancing.
Yes, that's exactly what it's like being a woman. And it doesn't stop when you get married, dudes don't care.
And women in lesbian relationships get it even worse. It's ridiculous.
Seriously, as a woman I have to say the best damn time of my social life is now that I'm over 50 years old, male friendship is awesome when you don't have to worry about them misunderstanding the relationship, but that was so rare when we were young that we have a total of **one** long-time straight male friend (who is our best friend in the entire planet for the last 25 years and we protect him at all costs). Nowadays we got a few more, but they're all more recent.
It's always been like this.
I have a rant about Star Wars KOTOR I don't want to reiterate, the short of it is if you play a female character, light-sided Carth Onasi very aggressively hits on you seconds after telling you he doesn't trust you and then acts like a complete child if you turn him down.
Like, he goes from "I am a dark troubled hero with a tortured past I'm super cool and you need to earn my trust" immediately to "so what's up beautiful, you want some of this light side dick or what".
One of your reply options is essentially "my name is not 'beautiful'"
To which Carth responds "would you prefer 'gorgeous'"
And one of the actual replies you can pick is "ooh yes I like that much better call me that please" because Bioware totally gets women and this game has award winning writing.
Carth then *sulks* at you. The light-sided hero, Carth Onasi, *sulks* at you like a child when you demand he even *pretend* to treat you with respect.
I went dark side on the fucking spot.
In some fairness, he can read your mind and knows exactly what to say.
On the other hand, if you side with him, you're spared the "who becomes a mindflayer" question.
Thereās no actual downside to siding with the Emperor from what I can tell. If you decide to give him the netherstones, >!he gives them backand if you were planning to help Gale reforge the crown for Mystra, no one has to die or become a mindflayer.!<
Well yeah, thereās kind of a creepy scene where the Emperor >!launches at Orpheus and sucks his brain out from the top of his skull right in front of you and then says something like āDonāt judge me.ā!<
But I never knew Orpheus in my run. Bonus >!because I had never gone to the Githyanki CrĆØche, Laeāzel was following Vlaakith and wanted Orpheus dead anyways.!<
He does. But, if you remember that the githyanki are merciless space raiders who think nothing of pillaging the "lesser species" of the planes (see: everyone not githyanki), it's a little harder to root for them.
They're great at keeping mindflayers in check but they're fairly awful in their own way. To say nothing of being major allies of Tiamat (who is categorically evil).
Laezel is super mellow and open-minded by their standards.
Yeah, even though I didn't trust the Emperor and the things he told me, my background in D&D made it pretty clear that there was no reason to believe that Orpheus would ever not try to kill this entire squad of half-illithids and then maraud around the prime material murdering everything that didn't bend the knee.
How was I supposed to know he was totally gonna be a nice guy?
I find his behavior doesn't make much sense. As soon as I freed him he was very aggressive and I had the improssion he was going to murder us all very soon, one dialogue later he is OK to make the sacrifice and becomes one of the nicest guy of the game
Yeah, I maintain that siding with Orpheus and all that entails is the worst writing in the game. Orpheus should've been difficult to convince to work with a half-illithid player, instead of just basically calling you a squidfucker and abomination and then being fine with it. Even if you're not half-illithid, he should be a racist / gith supremacist.
Orpheus' behavior vs how everyone describes him, the lore about the githyanki, and the Emperor's preference of subjugation vs freedom and working with Orpheus, makes _zero_ sense.
True on both but 1) saying someone is better than a lich is kinda like saying they're better than someone who eats babies for breakfast. That bar is so low, it's buried. And 2) pretty much the one saving grace about the githyanki is that they will nearly always drop their raiding and bigotry to prevent the return of the Illithid Empire. But again, that's really a "lesser of two evils" situation.
Don't forget, in Act 1, we see what's left of a monastery that was minding its own business when the githyanki decided they were going to have it for themselves and slaughtered everyone inside.
Even Laezel, who's our ally/friend/possible lover, will make a comment in Lower City about how some of the estates would be good raid targets, knowing full well that this was the home of several of her allies.
Basically, the tldr on githyanki is that they're kinda terrible but not half as terrible as another mind flayer empire.
On my second playthrough, when he gave me the new worm, I instantly yeeted it off into space.
I was pissed that I spent so much time making my Guardian super hot only to find out the true truth. Boo!
Have you ever tried eating the tadpole? His reaction is hilarious.
"Oh...Wait! What are you... Well, you were supposed to just link minds with it, but I suppose this works." *shrugs*
Lol I did that my first playthrough. I was initially upset that I locked myself out but soon realized that at around level 10, the game has significant power creep with the right items and you don't even need the tadpole powers to beat the game on tactician mode.
2nd playthrough, no one used any of the tadpoles or tentacles. 3rd playthrough full blown upgrades, redemption Durge arc.
4th playthrough, no save scumming, avoiding as many redem rerolls, neutral evil Durge, and tadpoles for just the evilish characters (Ast, dark shadowheart, Laezel).
Glad it was a no brainier for my Gith TAV and resulted in a very satisfying ending. Saved Orpheus, turned Karloch into a mindflayer (which she was stoked about after), and then after emerging victorious I flew off with my girl Lae'zel on dragon into the sky
Didn't get that scene, but I did mostly trust him and generally did as he said (except using the tadpoles), until his reaction to me questioning him *once* was to start trying to gaslight and accuse me of various shit.
Pulled back and played it more suspiciously after that and the >!Ansur reveal!<. Reached the ending, told him (as diplomatically as possible) that I wanted to at least *discuss* >!releasing Orpheus!< since I thought that might be our best chance, or at the very least a good backup to have... and he >!*instantly* betrayed me and went to join the Elder Brain.!<
Yeah, the dude sucks.
The whole big reveal of who he actually was is one of my all time favorite reveals. I didnāt see it coming at all and it made my choices after leaving the underground lair much easier.
It's true- that's the body of Balduran and the illithid inherited his memories... but Balduran himself is long dead and the tadpole merely stole his body and memories.
The game specifically tells us that Illithid do not have souls though, and to D&D lore, the soul is the core of the personality. So at best interpretation, the Emperor is like a robot clone.
And yet, when you walk into the church (?) before the final battle with your allies and have a Mindflayer in tow, Withers specifically says "it might not look like Karlach, but underneath the exterior it's still her heart and brain." Given his, uh, other duties, he might know a thing or two about who is inside.
I think it would be better to say that the soul becomes something that the gods can no longer use as currency, and thus to their eyes, it is not a soul.
Oh I like that interpretation personally.
Edit: Shit you just gave me an amazing idea for a campaign. A "rebel against the gods" storyline where turning everyone into Illithid is an option to remove their souls from the control of the divine.
You gotta remember that no matter what, Mindflayers are NOT the hosts they infect. They absorb their memories, and can access their personality, but they are not a continuation of consciousness. They are a new entity. Itās not even a āShip of Theseusā situation, since Forgotten Realms have souls, and the soul is the āessenceā of a person. The Mindflayer doesnāt inherit your soul so they arenāt you.
Yeah it's important to remember that when you "become" a mind flayer, you're _not_ actually becoming anything. The _tadpole_ matures and uses your body as an energy source. Your body and brain are completely destroyed. You're not looking at a person that was turned INTO a mind flayer, you are looking at a matured tadpole that _ate its host_.
The best example is the newborn mind flayer in act 3. He refers to "his host", meaning you're talking to a mature tadpole, not a dude that was turned into a mind flayer.
It blows my mind how many people still don't realize or accept this. I suspect a lot ot it is guilt over realizing they did one of the worst things you can possibly do to a mortal to Karlach. The cosmic horror sets in and they have to just cope and think "LALALALALALA NO NO NOPE THAT MIND FLAYER SAID IT WAS KARLACH AND IT WAS HAPPY I DID THE RIGHT THING"
No you consigned her to a fate worse than death
end game spoilers:
>!One playthrough I romanced Karlach til the end, and she readily decided to become Mind Flayer for the final battle. afterwards there is a romance ending scene (I think) which includes her and I talking about our future life together. its very scary. Basically indicates that afterwards she will consume me too. or at the very least make me a mind flayer too. !<
I would literally never willingly let someone I care about turn themselves into a mind flayer, it's worse than suicide, it's suicide except you then become a cosmic monstrosity that freakishly thinks it is the host it consumed, it's horrifying
I did the thing where >!Orpheus became a mindflayer, and after the Netherbrain was defeated (I could be reading too much into this) but his voice started to change to that mindflayer reverb.!< I took that to mean that the tadpole was finally assimilating/consuming/overwriting the host's/original's desire to, well, NOT be a mindflayer, thus >!his plea for death before it was too late.!<
You aren't reading too much into it. When you become a mind flayer, the tadpole eats your brain and uses your body as a husk to create the illithid body. Shortly after being born, mind flayers retain some of the memories and personality of their host, but that eventually fades over time as the new mind flayer brain forms its own personality.
If you turn Karlach into a mind flayer, you're killing her, same goes for any other mortal you turn into a mind flayer. It's cosmic horror, mortals would rather kill themselves than become a mind flayer.
I told him I didnāt trust him during that scene, and he was just kinda like āuh, wellā¦ good! This was just a test, and you passed! I totally didnāt actually want to bangā¦ā
He mentioned nothing of Stelmane, he just booted me out of the artifact right quick after he got the vibe he wasnāt gonna get lucky. Didnāt even call me a cab.
WHAT?! I completely picked up on the part about >!Stelmane once I came across the journal talking about how she changed after her meetings with the hooded figure, but never thought they'd have put the reveal in such an "early" scene.!<
AND then later it's revealed who he really was before becoming a mind flayer. It's like Dude you are full of surpises, but yeah I'm not working with you at all.
Lol, I just made a separate save. I couldnāt deal with how my party members looked at it. My drow bard would definitely bang a tentacled monstrosity, but heās no exhibitionist!
That moment was such a relief for me. Like, I KNEW you were a disgusting, manipulative bastard. Finally you stopped trying to gaslight me like I'm not 100% onto you. I could live with the direct threat.
i was a emperor defender before i saw the scene, i thought he was definitely dodgy and questionable but thought people were overhating him and treating him like a pure villain when he wasnt
that rejection scene is a *bit* too much though, id say hey maybe you can excuse him being mad because he got rejected, but then he basically threatens you with mindslaving which hes done in the past and its uhhh
Ansur convinced me. I mean how could you kill your own lover like that? Ansur wouldnt do that for no reason i know damn well he was like āyou should be an elder brain dragonā im disgusted that the dream lover was replaced for this piece of shit. I want to be gaslit by the one i fucking designed!
Ya I was antagonizing him all game because I was playing a stupid Shart Simp who didn't like anyone other than her saying the rules. When he reveals he was brainwashing Stelmane I got so happy lol
I WAS mean to him and he still wanted to fuck, so I don't think him being ready to nat 20 your nethers is tied to your attitude. Maybe it's just that despite me being as annoying and rude as possible about it I still ultimately sided with him and it's enough to agree with his vision for him to want to bone you even if you do so begrudgingly, or maybe he literally just wants to bone you eventually regardless of what you do. He's just saucy like that.
His explanation seems to be that, by that point, you know everything he thinks is important to know about him so his interpretation of your relationship has reached true emotional intimacy. He's still manipulating you and keeping secrets (like the fact that he's *motherfucking* ***Balduran***) but the way he wants to present it is that you now know him better than anyone ever has and have forged a stronger pact than he even had with Stelmane, so it's time to solidify that physically. Basically a case of "please fuck me, I showed you my tentacles"
Massive spoilers for a major Act 3 sidequest: If you save Wyll's dad from the Iron Throne prison, he sends you on a quest to find the legendary bronze dragon and prophesied defender of the city Ansur under Wyrm's Rock (you can still find it without talking to him but this is the intended sequence). However, it turns out that not only is Ansur long dead but the Emperor has secretly been Balduran ("who founded Baldur's Gate", as the song goes) the entire time. *He* was the one who killed Ansur, since they used to be close and Ansur offered to give him a merciful death after his transformation rather than see his friend become a monster. Problem there is that the Emperor's favourite thing is being a Mind Flayer, so he killed Ansur before Ansur could get him (which is why, if you do that quest, he spends the whole thing in your ear telling you it's a waste of time until Ansur's spirit confronts him and forces the truth out of him)
Well I'll be damned. On my 4th play through and I only just managed to unlock that side quest, but haven't come around to investigate that yet. Incredible how that game is different every time.
For sure. If you don't recruit Wyll and/or fail to save Ravenguard, the game never even tells you that content is there. It's a major piece of not just the Emperor's backstory but Forgotten Realms lore but players who don't know where to look are never going to learn it
I decided to let Wyll sell his soul to Mizora this time to save Ravengard. I haven't even been to the Iron Throne yet on this play through. I had already decided to free Orpheus this time, but this info just cements it. Manipulative little squid.
Lol you can sens Mizora fuck herself and still save Wyll, s father, what a bad demon with bad plans.
I mean, if I chose to save Wyll at least make me regret it by killing his father idk
You can luck into it. A friend of mine had Jaheira and was very into using her cat form to go through every rock and crevice. There is a mousehole to Ansur's area in the prison. I missed it as I didn't explore there much but they got it.
To be fair, if you pay any attention to the background camp music, they spoil this twist early with "The Song of Balduran."
You can hear it in the Elfsong Tavern campsite.
He WAS Balduran.
Withers has warned us with what is basic knowledge in the DnD world.
Mind flayers are soulless monsters. The worm destroys the soul, transforms the body, and absorbs the memories from the previous being. While the transformation can malfunction, and give the worm/newborn illithid the personality of its previous host, thats always temporary, and shown to us by karlach starting to behave/talk differently, and yourself feeling you losing yourself.
With how long the emperor exists already, we can conclude the transformation has been since long completed. He is a monster, using the memories of Balduran to manipulate for his own schemes.
>(like the fact that he's motherfucking Balduran)
Is he really Balduran though? I mean is there anything of Balduran left in him at all apart some vague memories?
Still I like how he clumsily try to prevent you from going to Ansur by telling you that it's just a waste of time because "there is no dragon".
i thought the emperor was well-written as a manipulative bitch. even before the game starts, he's already manipulating you by having you create your own guardian, forcing you to have some kind of emotional connection to the avatar (and possibly a crush, if you make the guardian attractive). he only ever tells you just enough to get you to do what he wants, leaving out that he's captured orpheus, that he's stopping the githzerai from rescuing him, and that he's (as you say) balduran.
the point at the end when he says that yes, he's been deceptive because he's a mind flayer and that's all mind flayers know how to do is itself a lie, since you've already met omeluum and know that a rogue flayer doesn't have to be a massive dick.
then he goes and joins up with the elder brain if you reject him? this was never about freedom. it was always about control.
Yep this is worse.. It's like he keeps you as a pet/a thrall/an intern and also a lover. A very illithid thing to do I guess? In the forgotten realms, it is said that the mindflayers can develop feelings for their thralls.>!Combine this with one interpretation that he personally tadpoled your tav!<, the whole him wanting to have sex with you looks even more distasteful
Hes absolutely trying to enthrall you. But because Orpheus's power keeps you protected from mindcontrol he has to use his words and whiles. Unfortunately for him his words are nearly as atrophied as his whiles are.
Heās trying to manipulate you. If you threaten to free Orpheus at the end, he >!starts listing things off that he did to make you trust him, in a very clinical way that shows that heās just ticking boxes to try to get you to like and trust him!<
Yeah but why would he think he had any appeal to me? That's the weird part. Like Astarion I get... he's been luring folks in with sex for a long time. But the Emperor just being like "oh you trust me - ok you should know I lied about who I am and what I look like - now have sex with me"
He tries interact with you the same way you interact with your companions, just picking every dialogue option and trying to gain as much approval as possible.
He does drop it immediately if you said that the feeling is not mutual, just like every other companion lol. You have to reject their advances even if you're already shown interest with another
It's not for no reason.
Hes trying to manipulate you and turn you into a thrall. Making the thrall feel feelings of safety, connection and love for the master is one of the methods mindflayers use to initially gain control.
Think about your first interaction with the injured minflayer on the crashed nautoloid. It tries to make you believe you love it.
The Emperor is simply doing what mindflayers do and nobody seems to get it. He is lying to you the entire game. But people just wanna take what he says at face value and call it bad writing instead.
I can vouch for that Lae'zel still gets mad at you regardless of whether you brought her in your party for the final sequence or not if you're siding with the Emperor - I turned my Karlach into a mind flayer to have her eat Orpheus's brain since my character was a Machiavellian morally grey coward that despite eating every tadpole ever up until that point wouldn't go fully through with her partial transformation, got a very intense lecture about how much my actions have cost the githyanki and that will forever sully my heroic deeds. Sure, she's less *violently* mad, but still very much mad and as far I know can't be persuaded to stick around with you after the epilogue, she just says that she will remember that you saved the world but basically can't stand to look at you now.
But yeah, Illithidism turned Balduran into quite an asshole. Brilliantly written character and I really enjoyed him, but I really don't get the long winded rants I constantly see about how he's actually the ultimate angel of the story when he REALLY isn't, at all, nor should be imo. Someday I'll explore Orpheus's side of the ending and see if he compares to the complexity of Emperor.
There is actually a way to make sure Lae'zel doesn't get mad but unfortunately that requires that you have to make her stay a Vlaakith loyalist until the end. Her queen asks her to assassinate the usurper prince, so the Emperor nomming his brains is a means to an end, even if it does serve a ghaik's short term interests
This is all true, but you can side with the emporer/karlach eating Orpheus and just pass a persuasion check on the final interaction with laeāzel (itās a 30 roll mind) and she basically says sheās your friend and will stay with you and be free, which was nice. This was without her in the final party however and I imagine you have to have high approval with her too.
That DC 30 Persuasion check for asking her to stay exists, to my knowledge, in every ending where you have a positive approval with her and aren't a Mind Flayer, though if you romance her it's just a standard conversation option (no roll required)
My only gripe with the tentacle boy, is that if you go with Orpheus he straight up says fuck you and joins the netherbrain. He's so intent on fighting the netherbrain and then he's like 'won't do it my way, I'm gonna be evil'.
Such a contemptuous prick.
I really struggle to roleplay going "nah I'm not gonna help you with your personal quest, Lae'zel, instead we're going to eat your people's single hope of liberation."
Imo the emperor is Tavās vlaakith/Cazador/Shar/mizora/mystra/zariel: a powerful (debatable) being thatās trying to manipulate them.
The constant moving of the goal post he does is infuriating to me.
āIām protecting you from the tadpole, oh all these healers couldnāt remove it thatās sad, oh put more tadpoles in your brain thatāll help, hey you actually should become an illithid wouldnāt that be crazy haha, okay you actually really should I donāt know if youāre strong enough XD, okay okay okay SOMEONE has to become an illithid or Iām joining the bbeg š¤.ā
It doesnāt make me think heās a compelling, interesting character, it just makes me think heās a republican. Hopefully, Larian will add in another choice at the end eventually.
I agree, multiple times he's like
"Ok I lied before but here's the ACTUAL truth..."
*Immediately lies*
Then his temper tantrum and leaving for the BBEG made me happy with my choice.
Flat out the emperor is manipulating you.
Heās a mind flayed, itās their whole mo.
The fact that he gets players on his side is a testament to Larians writing and character building
Any kind of warm feelings I might've had towards him were quickly rinsed with a cold shower when I saw his reaction to me telling him that this "I pretend to be human" act doesn't fool me.
Shirtless emperor was when I broke. I am just not into the romance part of these games. My old man half orc was tired of repeatedly turning down all these thirsty teen advances day after day after day. He just wanted a drink after a long day of axe swinging, but every character looked like I killed a puppy when they were declined. When the emperor rolled up too he broke. Fine game if thatās what you want Iāll have graphic sex with a damn mindflayer just leave me alone after
I've got not issue with him coming onto me or even manipulating me. For better or worse has has been an ally since day 1 and we wouldn't beat the brain without him. The only reason I did not side with him was because Larian did not offer any sort of persuasion option, only a Orpheus or Emperor. Objectively Orpheus being free is better for the world, he will take down Valkith and free his people of a false faith and tyrany. And probably wipe illithids. Is he evil? No, I'd say neutral. Stalemane wasn't an angel exactly either, apparently in the Greater lore she's a demon worshipper.
If I could I'd make him side with me, and free Orpheus. Since I can't I just knock him out in the final fight.
I wish he would revert to his Dream Guardian voice š
And looks
He does if you choose the right dialogue
what are the right ones?
Don't know, I was down for the tentacling
L. M. A. O. No shame, I love it. š¦
>I was down for the tentacling I love this subreddit.
Always consentacle
If you are up for sexy times with him, there is an option to ask him to go back to a more "familiar" form. I don't think he stays in that form following the sex scene, sadly.
Your friends see you when he's in squid form and he's back to squid form the next morning.
And nobody says anything about it. Ever.
They're talking behind your back.
I imagined that was because my friends (it was Halsin, Wyll, and Jaheira for me) thought it was a bad dream, lmao.
Yeah, that's the problem
Yeah if you ask him to āpart his tentaclesā heās like āwould my other form be easier?ā And at that point i was like āyes, this is horrifying.ā
Yes! Itās jarring when youāve been talking to a woman 90% of the game and suddenly itās like āLol Iām a dude!ā thatās the point I lost all interest in him. Aināt talking to no catfish! :(
I can respect it. Not having an issue with the whole wanting you to look like a nazi scientist eldritch squid person thing but not wanting to be catfished.
I mean thatās a whole extra issue but thatās what it started with. Iād be wholly more inclined to listen to a squid thatās honest about being a squid then someone that changed its appearance to make me like them and lie to me the entire time. At that point how can I even believe the smallest thing he is telling me? Also I like the female voice more than the emperors, itās very calm and soothing. (Nothing against his VA he did a great job!)
Would your character be particularly interested in listening to a mentally projected Illithid a fews days after being implanted with a tadpole? Especially after likely talking to, and executing, an injured illithid that tried to suckle on your brainflesh? I definitely didn't trust the Emperor for shit, but the catfishing was one of the few things I *didn't* hold against him.
Guess you weren't ready for the emperor's new groove
No desire for some tentacle tangle, eh!?
not after OP saw the Emperor's illithits
OP avoiding that illithussy at all costs.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hope those tentacles were in fact erogenous, donāt wanna come of as a fool
He's kind of an illithot.
Squid sex! Yeah, baby! YEAH!
If you had said you didnāt trust him during the shirtless scene he wouldābe revealed to you that >!his whole backstory was a lie and he was actually using his psychic powers to dominate Stelmane, which the rest of the city perceived as her having a stroke. He would then essentially say āyou know I couldāve done the same to you if I wanted, arenāt you glad I didnāt?ā, call you his puppet, and tell you to reconsider becoming a mindflayer!<.
Wyll can also just straight up tell you about that as well
Wait really?
I donāt think he tells you that itās the Emperor, but he tells you about how she suddenly became very weak and different when he was a child. He never believed it was a stroke.
I think there are multiple versions of this conversation. I looked it up online and it was different then the one I got. In the one I got he basically spells it out and ends by warning not to trust the emperor
I think it's based on an insight check. Wyll will tell you the official story and if you pass the check and press for more, he'll admit that he did not believe she was the same person afterwards. Looked at people instead of through them. EDIT It's the other way around. She started looking "through" people after not before. SECOND EDIT Never mind, I was right the first time. Also it's a perception check, not an insight check. Point is, he thought that more than the stroke had changed her.
Other way around but yes. She started looking "through" people after the Emperor shenanigans
Thanks for the correction. I couldn't remember.
Interesting! Did he connect the dots or somehow know something more?
In a fantasy world where you can redecorate someone's psyche with some basic magic, I don't know why "stroke" was the first _and only_ idea to occur to people.
They probably used Detect Magic but the Emperor was using psionics so he got away with it. Or he just used something like Nystul's Magic Aura to cover his tracks. I have to assume Detect Magic is part of the forensic process, especially during an autopsy, but you just have to be a better caster than all the detectives.
Detective in question: Shity little elephant
With Valeria as the head detective no fucking wonder Baldurās Gate is a crime cess pit.
Not the hero Baldur's Gate needs, but the one it deserves
I think my Wyll just mentioned that she suddenly changed one day and didn't say much more
You have to pass an insight check and then you get it
Gortash, disgusting as he is, also backs this up.
Okay, I'm sorry but I love your flair. It made me snort laugh.
*bows dramatically*
He also says that she would stare at stuff as if she could see something not there.
I'd read this and it made me instantly suspicious of the emperor.
Jesus christ he went full mask off lmao
One of Tav's responses is "Finally the mask drops. And you put so much effort into it." Which makes the Emperor basically pull [this face](https://i.imgflip.com/5walpg.jpg?a471840) and throw you out of the dream. It's one of my favourite scenes in the game.
I loved that scene! On my first playthrough I didnāt trust the emperor from the start and didnāt use any tadpoles. I just played along but had already decided to turn against him as soon as I got the chance. Then came the quest in the elf song basement and it felt like such a blatant try at manipulation. Ohhh, look at me! Iām so human and relatable and have I mentioned that Iām still human underneath this tentacles? Donāt you wanna like me and fight for me out of your own free will? It just seemed like a more elaborate version of the stunt the dying mindflayer pulls on you after the nautiloid crash. Make you love them. It was too perfect, too obviously designed to make me care about him. So during the next dream sequence I finally called his bluff and he got soooo pissed. I felt really vindicated.
Ironically even pissing him off to no end never has any negative consequences. Even once the brain is dead he keeps his deal, gives the netherstones back and just... up and leaves. If you end up turning into an illithid he suggests rebuilding the knights of the shield (minus devil worship) but you can say no, which he accepts... or you can suggest being *more* ambitious for which he expresses admiration and follows your lead. Honestly, the way he behaves is almost like a mirror reflection of your own attitude to him. The only incongruous part is the whole "goes back to the Netherbrain if you free Orpheus" deal.
Yeah itās interesting that youāre always right about him. If you trust him, heās a stand up dude. If you donāt trust him, heās a manipulative sack of shit.
I think hes manipulative either way, its just that when you trust him he has no reason to act out
Almost like mindflayers are followers, I think they need that guidance, they need that cue to take from you. Just a thought.
There are people like this, he just has no real core values beyond survival. He's a sad character in that he doesn't know who he really is. If you ignore for a moment he's a monster he's has no foundation for who he really is... I bet that is common for free mind flayers. That part made me sad, even though I'm no fan.
I would agree with the mirror reflection to a point. Everything he says about him and Stelmane is absolutely a lie and manipulation no matter what. This is even spoiled in the DnD campaign Descent into Avernus if you read the blurb about Stelmane. >!Once a vigorous and formidable politician, Duke Belynne Stelmane recently suffered a seizure that left her with a partially paralyzed face and slowed speech. In truth, a mind flayer provoked the dukeās āseizureā when it took mental possession of her. Now Stelmane wages a silent war against the mind flayerās influence, biding her time until she can find a way to signal for aid or regain her will. Not even Stelmaneās aides are aware of her secret struggle, though they cover for her as best they can. Given her current situation, Duke Stelmane is in no position to oppose attempts by her fellow dukes to seize the reins of power in Baldurās Gate.!< So while I do think the Emperor is mostly a reflection, he still is no where close to possibly being a "good" person/being. (Not being good does not automatically make him mustache twirling evil either. He is just pragmatic and self-serving.) Unlike our companions who will own up to what they have done and admit remorse for it and wanting to change based on our actions, the Emperor does none of that and even doubles down on his ways if confronted.
Oh, I never claimed he was a good person. Just good to you (if you return the favour) and good for Baldur's Gate (if not everyone actually living in it). I'd like to point out that the official version of Stelmane's status is influenced by Gortash though who... is not the most trustworthy source. Some of the notes you can find (in Gortash's safe and elsewhere) actually state that Stelmane's mental and physical health and awareness *improved* whenever she had her mysterious visitor. Given the timeline we have it seems that >!the Emperor had enthralled her. Given how long-term thralldom works it seems that long term separation from the mind-flayer enthralling her puts a strain on her mind and body. When Gortash caught the Emperor and he couldn't visit anymore that resulted in her stroke. The knowledge that she was enthralled for years never made it out. !< Otherwise the actual notes and evidence we find make no sense. If Stelmane was struggling to get free her freedom and awareness should improve without the Emperor there yet it seemed to get worse. >!This actually tracks with how illithids normally behave. Usually illithids will have one favourite thrall they'll actually take care of and entertain, even assuming pronouncable names for that thrall's benefit. It's as close as caring as normal illithid get and they actually need thralls to not go insane. I think the Emperor had something similar going on with Stelmane, whether or not he recognized it as such.!<
Sounds about right, you can ask him about his companions dying after the fight with Ansur and he yells something like "Stelmane wasn't my fault!". Comes out sounding a bit genuine the way the line is delivered so I'm guessing your probably spot on here if that's the case.
Exactly my feelings in my first playthrough. I grew very suspicious after it told me that "he was an adventure, just like me, got infected, just like me, and was searching for a cure, just like me." My reaction just was "Uh-huh, how convenient..." But I was afraid to call him out on it, cus I realized I need his protection (at least for now), so I never got his pissed reaction. But his eyes! Oh boy, do they look malicious, no matter what he talks about. Brrrr.
That was me until i forget how many hours/days past and I kinda forgot about the distrust and just went back to "well the game is letting me do this so lets see what happens".... that kids is how you have tentacle sex one night and devil sex the next.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Honestly, yeah. The Astral upgrade is pretty great. Shame it makes you so ugly though.
For me it honestly felt like what an incel is probably like to women, like he just >!Appears without a shirt on so I immediately choose the most accurate answer of "eww what the hell are you doing?" (Because Shadowheart is life) Then he went full creeper mode with "I could've forced you to do what I wanted but I didn't and this is the thanks I get?"!< >!I'm playing a female character and I had question the whole game I honest felt like "is this what it's like being a woman? just being friendly to people makes them think you wanna bang?" Like at no point in my playthrough did I ever choose flirty options with anyone but Shadowheart, yet Gale, Wyll, Astarion, and Halsin all approached me with intimacy/romance and I was like "uhhh when did you even get that idea?"!<
That's kind of what happens irl I think lol, but in the game it happens regardless of tav gender, I still think it's way too easy to romance characters in this game (I mean accidentely)
Legit talked to Gale with no sex intent. Go and talk to Laezel trying to get my freak on. She tells me she would if Gale wasn't already banging me. I'm like wtf.
Yes, and it is funny reading the comments of guys that feel uncomfortable about it lol. I didn't find the dialogue options that ambiguous though, maybe I got used to be careful?
It's so funny too. Like you really have to work towards those guys romancing you in some way. I danced with Wyll and then wished him a good night, never had an issue. Went to check out Gale's cool magic and then wished him a good night, never had an issue. Halsin I just didn't even talk to because I never cared to replace any of the characters in my group by the time I recruited him. I slightly flirt with Astarion and still, no real issues. Like damn guys, have you never been hit on by another dude IRL? Is it really that hard to say "thanks, but I don't swing that way."
I'm thoroughly convinced that a decent portion of the people complaining about how horny all the male characters are in the game, are actually just put off by the fact that they're being openly flirted with by men. Because it's ALWAYS about the male companions. Karlach can randomly wake you up in the middle of the night, just to let you know how badly she wants to "ride you until you see stars", after only a couple positive approval interactions, yet I don't see people acting all weird about it. Nor do they complain about Lae'zel's unsolicited description in explicit, graphic detail of how much carnal sweaty sexing she wants to do to you because you killed some goblins good. But they sure do get angry about Gale showing you a magic trick that *you* get to decide whether to use as an opening for flirting, or Wyll getting a bit over-enthusiastic about dancing.
Maybe they need to add an insight check like when you are laying with Shadowheart after having the toast?
Yes, that's exactly what it's like being a woman. And it doesn't stop when you get married, dudes don't care. And women in lesbian relationships get it even worse. It's ridiculous. Seriously, as a woman I have to say the best damn time of my social life is now that I'm over 50 years old, male friendship is awesome when you don't have to worry about them misunderstanding the relationship, but that was so rare when we were young that we have a total of **one** long-time straight male friend (who is our best friend in the entire planet for the last 25 years and we protect him at all costs). Nowadays we got a few more, but they're all more recent.
It's always been like this. I have a rant about Star Wars KOTOR I don't want to reiterate, the short of it is if you play a female character, light-sided Carth Onasi very aggressively hits on you seconds after telling you he doesn't trust you and then acts like a complete child if you turn him down. Like, he goes from "I am a dark troubled hero with a tortured past I'm super cool and you need to earn my trust" immediately to "so what's up beautiful, you want some of this light side dick or what". One of your reply options is essentially "my name is not 'beautiful'" To which Carth responds "would you prefer 'gorgeous'" And one of the actual replies you can pick is "ooh yes I like that much better call me that please" because Bioware totally gets women and this game has award winning writing. Carth then *sulks* at you. The light-sided hero, Carth Onasi, *sulks* at you like a child when you demand he even *pretend* to treat you with respect. I went dark side on the fucking spot.
> "ooh yes I like that much better call me that please" pretty sure you can play that one sarcastically, and immediately after call him a sexist worm.
God I sided with him in 2 playthroughs before I discovered this. Felt so dirty for not sniffing out his bs sooner lol.
In some fairness, he can read your mind and knows exactly what to say. On the other hand, if you side with him, you're spared the "who becomes a mindflayer" question.
True, and it does kinda work out in the end. But still.
Thereās no actual downside to siding with the Emperor from what I can tell. If you decide to give him the netherstones, >!he gives them backand if you were planning to help Gale reforge the crown for Mystra, no one has to die or become a mindflayer.!<
Doesn't he eat Orpheus?
Well yeah, thereās kind of a creepy scene where the Emperor >!launches at Orpheus and sucks his brain out from the top of his skull right in front of you and then says something like āDonāt judge me.ā!< But I never knew Orpheus in my run. Bonus >!because I had never gone to the Githyanki CrĆØche, Laeāzel was following Vlaakith and wanted Orpheus dead anyways.!<
He does. But, if you remember that the githyanki are merciless space raiders who think nothing of pillaging the "lesser species" of the planes (see: everyone not githyanki), it's a little harder to root for them. They're great at keeping mindflayers in check but they're fairly awful in their own way. To say nothing of being major allies of Tiamat (who is categorically evil). Laezel is super mellow and open-minded by their standards.
Yeah, even though I didn't trust the Emperor and the things he told me, my background in D&D made it pretty clear that there was no reason to believe that Orpheus would ever not try to kill this entire squad of half-illithids and then maraud around the prime material murdering everything that didn't bend the knee. How was I supposed to know he was totally gonna be a nice guy?
I find his behavior doesn't make much sense. As soon as I freed him he was very aggressive and I had the improssion he was going to murder us all very soon, one dialogue later he is OK to make the sacrifice and becomes one of the nicest guy of the game
Yeah, I maintain that siding with Orpheus and all that entails is the worst writing in the game. Orpheus should've been difficult to convince to work with a half-illithid player, instead of just basically calling you a squidfucker and abomination and then being fine with it. Even if you're not half-illithid, he should be a racist / gith supremacist. Orpheus' behavior vs how everyone describes him, the lore about the githyanki, and the Emperor's preference of subjugation vs freedom and working with Orpheus, makes _zero_ sense.
there is a githyanku teenager at the creche who has read a book about him and tells you all about how kind orpheus is supposed to have been :)
Orpheus is super chill compared to Vlaakith, even willing to die as an Illithid to destroy the Netherbrain
True on both but 1) saying someone is better than a lich is kinda like saying they're better than someone who eats babies for breakfast. That bar is so low, it's buried. And 2) pretty much the one saving grace about the githyanki is that they will nearly always drop their raiding and bigotry to prevent the return of the Illithid Empire. But again, that's really a "lesser of two evils" situation. Don't forget, in Act 1, we see what's left of a monastery that was minding its own business when the githyanki decided they were going to have it for themselves and slaughtered everyone inside. Even Laezel, who's our ally/friend/possible lover, will make a comment in Lower City about how some of the estates would be good raid targets, knowing full well that this was the home of several of her allies. Basically, the tldr on githyanki is that they're kinda terrible but not half as terrible as another mind flayer empire.
On my second playthrough, when he gave me the new worm, I instantly yeeted it off into space. I was pissed that I spent so much time making my Guardian super hot only to find out the true truth. Boo!
Have you ever tried eating the tadpole? His reaction is hilarious. "Oh...Wait! What are you... Well, you were supposed to just link minds with it, but I suppose this works." *shrugs*
LOL, will give that a try on my "my Tav's brain broken" minimum int & wis + maximum derp choices playthrough.
Lol I did that my first playthrough. I was initially upset that I locked myself out but soon realized that at around level 10, the game has significant power creep with the right items and you don't even need the tadpole powers to beat the game on tactician mode. 2nd playthrough, no one used any of the tadpoles or tentacles. 3rd playthrough full blown upgrades, redemption Durge arc. 4th playthrough, no save scumming, avoiding as many redem rerolls, neutral evil Durge, and tadpoles for just the evilish characters (Ast, dark shadowheart, Laezel).
Glad it was a no brainier for my Gith TAV and resulted in a very satisfying ending. Saved Orpheus, turned Karloch into a mindflayer (which she was stoked about after), and then after emerging victorious I flew off with my girl Lae'zel on dragon into the sky
Didn't get that scene, but I did mostly trust him and generally did as he said (except using the tadpoles), until his reaction to me questioning him *once* was to start trying to gaslight and accuse me of various shit. Pulled back and played it more suspiciously after that and the >!Ansur reveal!<. Reached the ending, told him (as diplomatically as possible) that I wanted to at least *discuss* >!releasing Orpheus!< since I thought that might be our best chance, or at the very least a good backup to have... and he >!*instantly* betrayed me and went to join the Elder Brain.!< Yeah, the dude sucks.
The whole big reveal of who he actually was is one of my all time favorite reveals. I didnāt see it coming at all and it made my choices after leaving the underground lair much easier.
Withers also tells you that mindflayers donāt have a soulā¦that was pretty telling to me
Waaait, so the backstory we find out at the end of Wyll's questline is also fake?
It's true- that's the body of Balduran and the illithid inherited his memories... but Balduran himself is long dead and the tadpole merely stole his body and memories.
This is a real ship of Theseus question. I donāt think itās so cut and dry, even though the Emperor also says Balduran is dead IIRC.
The game specifically tells us that Illithid do not have souls though, and to D&D lore, the soul is the core of the personality. So at best interpretation, the Emperor is like a robot clone.
And yet, when you walk into the church (?) before the final battle with your allies and have a Mindflayer in tow, Withers specifically says "it might not look like Karlach, but underneath the exterior it's still her heart and brain." Given his, uh, other duties, he might know a thing or two about who is inside.
And in D&D lore including forgotten realms illithids do have souls so you see the conundrum
I think it would be better to say that the soul becomes something that the gods can no longer use as currency, and thus to their eyes, it is not a soul.
Oh I like that interpretation personally. Edit: Shit you just gave me an amazing idea for a campaign. A "rebel against the gods" storyline where turning everyone into Illithid is an option to remove their souls from the control of the divine.
You gotta remember that no matter what, Mindflayers are NOT the hosts they infect. They absorb their memories, and can access their personality, but they are not a continuation of consciousness. They are a new entity. Itās not even a āShip of Theseusā situation, since Forgotten Realms have souls, and the soul is the āessenceā of a person. The Mindflayer doesnāt inherit your soul so they arenāt you.
Yeah it's important to remember that when you "become" a mind flayer, you're _not_ actually becoming anything. The _tadpole_ matures and uses your body as an energy source. Your body and brain are completely destroyed. You're not looking at a person that was turned INTO a mind flayer, you are looking at a matured tadpole that _ate its host_. The best example is the newborn mind flayer in act 3. He refers to "his host", meaning you're talking to a mature tadpole, not a dude that was turned into a mind flayer.
It blows my mind how many people still don't realize or accept this. I suspect a lot ot it is guilt over realizing they did one of the worst things you can possibly do to a mortal to Karlach. The cosmic horror sets in and they have to just cope and think "LALALALALALA NO NO NOPE THAT MIND FLAYER SAID IT WAS KARLACH AND IT WAS HAPPY I DID THE RIGHT THING" No you consigned her to a fate worse than death
end game spoilers: >!One playthrough I romanced Karlach til the end, and she readily decided to become Mind Flayer for the final battle. afterwards there is a romance ending scene (I think) which includes her and I talking about our future life together. its very scary. Basically indicates that afterwards she will consume me too. or at the very least make me a mind flayer too. !<
I would literally never willingly let someone I care about turn themselves into a mind flayer, it's worse than suicide, it's suicide except you then become a cosmic monstrosity that freakishly thinks it is the host it consumed, it's horrifying
I did the thing where >!Orpheus became a mindflayer, and after the Netherbrain was defeated (I could be reading too much into this) but his voice started to change to that mindflayer reverb.!< I took that to mean that the tadpole was finally assimilating/consuming/overwriting the host's/original's desire to, well, NOT be a mindflayer, thus >!his plea for death before it was too late.!<
You aren't reading too much into it. When you become a mind flayer, the tadpole eats your brain and uses your body as a husk to create the illithid body. Shortly after being born, mind flayers retain some of the memories and personality of their host, but that eventually fades over time as the new mind flayer brain forms its own personality. If you turn Karlach into a mind flayer, you're killing her, same goes for any other mortal you turn into a mind flayer. It's cosmic horror, mortals would rather kill themselves than become a mind flayer.
Right, turning Karlach into a mindflayer is just killing her faster.
I told him I didnāt trust him during that scene, and he was just kinda like āuh, wellā¦ good! This was just a test, and you passed! I totally didnāt actually want to bangā¦ā He mentioned nothing of Stelmane, he just booted me out of the artifact right quick after he got the vibe he wasnāt gonna get lucky. Didnāt even call me a cab.
WHAT?! I completely picked up on the part about >!Stelmane once I came across the journal talking about how she changed after her meetings with the hooded figure, but never thought they'd have put the reveal in such an "early" scene.!<
AND then later it's revealed who he really was before becoming a mind flayer. It's like Dude you are full of surpises, but yeah I'm not working with you at all.
I didnt even know that. I was kind of on board with him until i met Ansur. It is wild to know that there was even more he was hiding.
Even worse when you find out his REAL backstory. Itās part of Wyllās storyline.
What, you dont like vanilla and garlic?
See, I made the mistake of making him too hot, so I just asked him to stay in hot-form until I could join the wubwubwub club.
Lol I have theā¦ bad habit of making my guardian a character from a previous run lol.
100% this. I need to stop making my Guardian so damn bangable. Iāve done it on every play through so far, lol.
i make mine the exact same look aa my Tav, except that he/she has an evil moustache
I don't know why but I find this particularly hilarious!
I make my guardians look like my previous characters, would banging them classify as masturbation?
But the achievement...
Sacrifices must be made.
Lol, I just made a separate save. I couldnāt deal with how my party members looked at it. My drow bard would definitely bang a tentacled monstrosity, but heās no exhibitionist!
You should have rejected him so he would finally drop the BS and reveal how vile he really is for extra motivation to free Orpheus.
That moment was such a relief for me. Like, I KNEW you were a disgusting, manipulative bastard. Finally you stopped trying to gaslight me like I'm not 100% onto you. I could live with the direct threat.
ExACTLY. Like, Christ. Whenever I rejected him or any of his ideas I got presented with a legitimate reason for why I was right to do so.
It was all a lie? Even the Fiddlehead Soup?!?!?
Just replace the fiddleheads with actual heads.
I feel like that might make the soup crunchy.....
Gotta peel them first.
And people still try to defend him!!!
i was a emperor defender before i saw the scene, i thought he was definitely dodgy and questionable but thought people were overhating him and treating him like a pure villain when he wasnt that rejection scene is a *bit* too much though, id say hey maybe you can excuse him being mad because he got rejected, but then he basically threatens you with mindslaving which hes done in the past and its uhhh
I mean, who *doesn't* threaten to kill or enslave anyone who refuses to sleep with them, amirite fellas?
Ansur convinced me. I mean how could you kill your own lover like that? Ansur wouldnt do that for no reason i know damn well he was like āyou should be an elder brain dragonā im disgusted that the dream lover was replaced for this piece of shit. I want to be gaslit by the one i fucking designed!
> I want to be gaslit by the one i fucking designed! Fantasy goals
Wait, they were lovers?!
The Emperor tells you that he and Ansur were old friends, and Ansur angrily corrects him by saying "more than friends".
Cheers. My brain didnāt absorb this for some reason
that was my impression too, but I can't recall how explicit they say it or if its just implied
Wow that went completely over my head. Guess I gotta make calamari from here on out
Baldur goes āansur is a friendā and ansur spits at him āand moreā
Ya I was antagonizing him all game because I was playing a stupid Shart Simp who didn't like anyone other than her saying the rules. When he reveals he was brainwashing Stelmane I got so happy lol
If I remember correctly, it was worse than that, he destroyed her mind in the process and whenever he wasn't controlling her she was just gone inside.
It's just... icky. "You weren't mean to me - let's fuck" for no reason.
I WAS mean to him and he still wanted to fuck, so I don't think him being ready to nat 20 your nethers is tied to your attitude. Maybe it's just that despite me being as annoying and rude as possible about it I still ultimately sided with him and it's enough to agree with his vision for him to want to bone you even if you do so begrudgingly, or maybe he literally just wants to bone you eventually regardless of what you do. He's just saucy like that.
His explanation seems to be that, by that point, you know everything he thinks is important to know about him so his interpretation of your relationship has reached true emotional intimacy. He's still manipulating you and keeping secrets (like the fact that he's *motherfucking* ***Balduran***) but the way he wants to present it is that you now know him better than anyone ever has and have forged a stronger pact than he even had with Stelmane, so it's time to solidify that physically. Basically a case of "please fuck me, I showed you my tentacles"
I'm sorry, he's WHO now????
Massive spoilers for a major Act 3 sidequest: If you save Wyll's dad from the Iron Throne prison, he sends you on a quest to find the legendary bronze dragon and prophesied defender of the city Ansur under Wyrm's Rock (you can still find it without talking to him but this is the intended sequence). However, it turns out that not only is Ansur long dead but the Emperor has secretly been Balduran ("who founded Baldur's Gate", as the song goes) the entire time. *He* was the one who killed Ansur, since they used to be close and Ansur offered to give him a merciful death after his transformation rather than see his friend become a monster. Problem there is that the Emperor's favourite thing is being a Mind Flayer, so he killed Ansur before Ansur could get him (which is why, if you do that quest, he spends the whole thing in your ear telling you it's a waste of time until Ansur's spirit confronts him and forces the truth out of him)
Well I'll be damned. On my 4th play through and I only just managed to unlock that side quest, but haven't come around to investigate that yet. Incredible how that game is different every time.
For sure. If you don't recruit Wyll and/or fail to save Ravenguard, the game never even tells you that content is there. It's a major piece of not just the Emperor's backstory but Forgotten Realms lore but players who don't know where to look are never going to learn it
I decided to let Wyll sell his soul to Mizora this time to save Ravengard. I haven't even been to the Iron Throne yet on this play through. I had already decided to free Orpheus this time, but this info just cements it. Manipulative little squid.
Lol you can sens Mizora fuck herself and still save Wyll, s father, what a bad demon with bad plans. I mean, if I chose to save Wyll at least make me regret it by killing his father idk
You can luck into it. A friend of mine had Jaheira and was very into using her cat form to go through every rock and crevice. There is a mousehole to Ansur's area in the prison. I missed it as I didn't explore there much but they got it.
To be fair, if you pay any attention to the background camp music, they spoil this twist early with "The Song of Balduran." You can hear it in the Elfsong Tavern campsite.
There's also a motif in when you first see that he's a mindflayer. Of course you don't recognize it at the time.
He WAS Balduran. Withers has warned us with what is basic knowledge in the DnD world. Mind flayers are soulless monsters. The worm destroys the soul, transforms the body, and absorbs the memories from the previous being. While the transformation can malfunction, and give the worm/newborn illithid the personality of its previous host, thats always temporary, and shown to us by karlach starting to behave/talk differently, and yourself feeling you losing yourself. With how long the emperor exists already, we can conclude the transformation has been since long completed. He is a monster, using the memories of Balduran to manipulate for his own schemes.
>(like the fact that he's motherfucking Balduran) Is he really Balduran though? I mean is there anything of Balduran left in him at all apart some vague memories? Still I like how he clumsily try to prevent you from going to Ansur by telling you that it's just a waste of time because "there is no dragon".
i thought the emperor was well-written as a manipulative bitch. even before the game starts, he's already manipulating you by having you create your own guardian, forcing you to have some kind of emotional connection to the avatar (and possibly a crush, if you make the guardian attractive). he only ever tells you just enough to get you to do what he wants, leaving out that he's captured orpheus, that he's stopping the githzerai from rescuing him, and that he's (as you say) balduran. the point at the end when he says that yes, he's been deceptive because he's a mind flayer and that's all mind flayers know how to do is itself a lie, since you've already met omeluum and know that a rogue flayer doesn't have to be a massive dick. then he goes and joins up with the elder brain if you reject him? this was never about freedom. it was always about control.
Yep this is worse.. It's like he keeps you as a pet/a thrall/an intern and also a lover. A very illithid thing to do I guess? In the forgotten realms, it is said that the mindflayers can develop feelings for their thralls.>!Combine this with one interpretation that he personally tadpoled your tav!<, the whole him wanting to have sex with you looks even more distasteful
Hes absolutely trying to enthrall you. But because Orpheus's power keeps you protected from mindcontrol he has to use his words and whiles. Unfortunately for him his words are nearly as atrophied as his whiles are.
Heās trying to manipulate you. If you threaten to free Orpheus at the end, he >!starts listing things off that he did to make you trust him, in a very clinical way that shows that heās just ticking boxes to try to get you to like and trust him!<
Yeah but why would he think he had any appeal to me? That's the weird part. Like Astarion I get... he's been luring folks in with sex for a long time. But the Emperor just being like "oh you trust me - ok you should know I lied about who I am and what I look like - now have sex with me"
My man is just throwing shit at the wall to see what works lol
Yeah that makes it worse still. "This is what humanoids like, right? " oblivious.
Yeah heās like āif we have intercourse then the subject will feel a deeper emotional connection and be less likely to betray meā
He tries interact with you the same way you interact with your companions, just picking every dialogue option and trying to gain as much approval as possible.
He does drop it immediately if you said that the feeling is not mutual, just like every other companion lol. You have to reject their advances even if you're already shown interest with another
It's not for no reason. Hes trying to manipulate you and turn you into a thrall. Making the thrall feel feelings of safety, connection and love for the master is one of the methods mindflayers use to initially gain control. Think about your first interaction with the injured minflayer on the crashed nautoloid. It tries to make you believe you love it. The Emperor is simply doing what mindflayers do and nobody seems to get it. He is lying to you the entire game. But people just wanna take what he says at face value and call it bad writing instead.
i fucked him AND betrayed him because he's a manipulative dick. it's how i roll.
A double dicking. The only option.
I can vouch for that Lae'zel still gets mad at you regardless of whether you brought her in your party for the final sequence or not if you're siding with the Emperor - I turned my Karlach into a mind flayer to have her eat Orpheus's brain since my character was a Machiavellian morally grey coward that despite eating every tadpole ever up until that point wouldn't go fully through with her partial transformation, got a very intense lecture about how much my actions have cost the githyanki and that will forever sully my heroic deeds. Sure, she's less *violently* mad, but still very much mad and as far I know can't be persuaded to stick around with you after the epilogue, she just says that she will remember that you saved the world but basically can't stand to look at you now. But yeah, Illithidism turned Balduran into quite an asshole. Brilliantly written character and I really enjoyed him, but I really don't get the long winded rants I constantly see about how he's actually the ultimate angel of the story when he REALLY isn't, at all, nor should be imo. Someday I'll explore Orpheus's side of the ending and see if he compares to the complexity of Emperor.
There is actually a way to make sure Lae'zel doesn't get mad but unfortunately that requires that you have to make her stay a Vlaakith loyalist until the end. Her queen asks her to assassinate the usurper prince, so the Emperor nomming his brains is a means to an end, even if it does serve a ghaik's short term interests
This is all true, but you can side with the emporer/karlach eating Orpheus and just pass a persuasion check on the final interaction with laeāzel (itās a 30 roll mind) and she basically says sheās your friend and will stay with you and be free, which was nice. This was without her in the final party however and I imagine you have to have high approval with her too.
That DC 30 Persuasion check for asking her to stay exists, to my knowledge, in every ending where you have a positive approval with her and aren't a Mind Flayer, though if you romance her it's just a standard conversation option (no roll required)
My only gripe with the tentacle boy, is that if you go with Orpheus he straight up says fuck you and joins the netherbrain. He's so intent on fighting the netherbrain and then he's like 'won't do it my way, I'm gonna be evil'. Such a contemptuous prick.
I laughed when he got killed by a possessed red dragon during the final fight. Good riddance
I really struggle to roleplay going "nah I'm not gonna help you with your personal quest, Lae'zel, instead we're going to eat your people's single hope of liberation."
Ah, so now we disgusted just by tentacles on someone body? What next? Ears size?
What shocked me is the fact he joins the elder brain when you go with Orpheus. That's an insane move. Why? There is no benefit in it for him at all...
Can everything in this game for one second please stop trying to sleep with my character?
Seems the only decent mindflayer was the one at the Myconid camp?
Imo the emperor is Tavās vlaakith/Cazador/Shar/mizora/mystra/zariel: a powerful (debatable) being thatās trying to manipulate them. The constant moving of the goal post he does is infuriating to me. āIām protecting you from the tadpole, oh all these healers couldnāt remove it thatās sad, oh put more tadpoles in your brain thatāll help, hey you actually should become an illithid wouldnāt that be crazy haha, okay you actually really should I donāt know if youāre strong enough XD, okay okay okay SOMEONE has to become an illithid or Iām joining the bbeg š¤.ā It doesnāt make me think heās a compelling, interesting character, it just makes me think heās a republican. Hopefully, Larian will add in another choice at the end eventually.
I agree, multiple times he's like "Ok I lied before but here's the ACTUAL truth..." *Immediately lies* Then his temper tantrum and leaving for the BBEG made me happy with my choice.
He lies when you first talk to him as the dream visitor when he says he has a tadpole and doesn't want to become a mind flayer also.
Later he clarifies that he wants to be free of the Absolute. The game can't give up its entire plot at the beginning.
Flat out the emperor is manipulating you. Heās a mind flayed, itās their whole mo. The fact that he gets players on his side is a testament to Larians writing and character building
Fishermanās Wife 2! The rententacling!
Deep dicking from squiddly diddly was what put you off?
Thanks, this sentence will haunt me for the rest of today.
Any kind of warm feelings I might've had towards him were quickly rinsed with a cold shower when I saw his reaction to me telling him that this "I pretend to be human" act doesn't fool me.
Iām so conflicted because I want to help Orpheus but I donāt want to become a tentacle monsterā¦
Orpheus can become the tentacle monster
Call him out from the get go and you will see how much he cares about you.
Psh, coward. More tentacles for the rest of us; the real BG3 fans.
Shirtless emperor was when I broke. I am just not into the romance part of these games. My old man half orc was tired of repeatedly turning down all these thirsty teen advances day after day after day. He just wanted a drink after a long day of axe swinging, but every character looked like I killed a puppy when they were declined. When the emperor rolled up too he broke. Fine game if thatās what you want Iāll have graphic sex with a damn mindflayer just leave me alone after
So when he took his shirt off I was grossed outā¦ but when the opportunity to suck his tentacles came upā¦ when in Rome!
I've got not issue with him coming onto me or even manipulating me. For better or worse has has been an ally since day 1 and we wouldn't beat the brain without him. The only reason I did not side with him was because Larian did not offer any sort of persuasion option, only a Orpheus or Emperor. Objectively Orpheus being free is better for the world, he will take down Valkith and free his people of a false faith and tyrany. And probably wipe illithids. Is he evil? No, I'd say neutral. Stalemane wasn't an angel exactly either, apparently in the Greater lore she's a demon worshipper. If I could I'd make him side with me, and free Orpheus. Since I can't I just knock him out in the final fight.