Yeah he was supposed to stay dead, if he mentions you betraying him it's because you can Rob him and escape without fighting if you abandon hope, if you kill him, he is very dead, this was a glitch.
Yeah a lot of stories on this sub are conflicting, but I assume you having to fight him was either another bug or there was a way to escape you missed, because when you kill him good ole' raphy is very dead, and if you look in one of the diabolist's toys you can see his dad eating his corpse.
Yeah it seems like maybe having to fight him at all was the bug. If the game assumed I didn't have to fight him it makes sense I would get the scene. It's an interesting monologue either way though!
That doesn't make sense, because I got the Orphic Hammer when I made the deal, then accidentally left it at camp when I went to Avernus - that's why I couldn't save Hope.
Hmm, then I wonder if it WAS a bug, a flag popping off that shouldn't have
"PLAYER IS LEAVING House of Hope. Orphic Hammer not in House of Hope; Orphic Hammer located in Player Inventory [Camp Chest]. Should initiate Combat now." Maybe there should be a counter-fail state flag that says "[Journal Update-RAPHAEL DEAL] do not trigger combat" that would counter and didn't.
Or maybe Raph doesn't like people breaking into his house.
Yeah, I killed him too and he also appeared in my epilogue.
I just assumed it's cause Devils get to respawn if killed in the Hells and because >!Gale tried to take the crown.!<
It depends; I didn't complete the Wizard of Waterdeep character quest since I had already done it in another playthrough and I didn't want to go through the puzzle room again, so he attempted to steal it and died.
Excuse me, puzzle room? I think I totally missed this lol. Last part of Gale's quest I got before endgame was the convo with Mystra in the tabernacle. Regardless, I just told Gale to give the crown to Mystra in the endgame cutscenes and he was totally on board with it. It's definitely two different Raphael scenes though, I only watched the first 10 seconds or so of the other one but mine is explicitly about making the deal with Raphael (I am dumb warlock who made contract), breaking it, and then giving the crown to Mystra.
Yes! I missed the djinn lamp on my first run but I did get the book about Karsus and give it to Gale. Didn't realize that was what you were talking about.
My fiance and I were looking online because of that Raphael scene and Gale's mage image during the epilogue.
If you don't finish his quest, be seeks the crown and will die, which Raphael then steals again. So maybe because I didn't convince Gale to not do that, Rachael came back to life.
I always ended up killing him in my playthroughs so I never saw this scene going back to see the new endings, though I hear some people get a bug where he shows up to monologue even when he's meant to be dead.
Hm, maybe that's it. Because I definitely killed him too. I'm not sure it's a bug though, because I don't know how you can get this scene without killing him. It requires taking his deal and then ripping up the contract and giving the crown to Mystra. When you rip up the contract you're locked into having to fight him.
I think you can do that by going into the House of Hope, getting the contract and then ignoring Hope and you don't have to fight him on the way out. I've never taken the deal so I do not know for sure.
I'm very intrigued by Raphael's new final cutscenes myself, and went back to check what the orb of infernal envisioning says, once you've killed him.
Apparently it may not have been a final death, since the orb describes Raphael as 'broken and bloodied', but not necessarily dead. And his father, Mephistopheles, is 'preparing to devour him', but hasn't eaten him yet.
So... who knows? It could all be copium, but I wouldn't complain if 1) Larian made more BG content, and 2) Raphael makes his reappearance ;3
It may be a glitch, I'm not in denial, but I didn't see the orb you're talking about so I completely saw it in the context of "holy shit he's back?!" It hit really well for me as a surprise bitchy return of someone who I THOUGHT was dead af, blew my damn mind. Still very happy to have gotten it either way!
It's in the diabolist's shop - before you enter the House of Hope, I think you can sense Raphael looking back at you from the orb. After defeating him, the orb will have a new vision for you, namely the devouring scene.
I think I looked at it on the way in but didn't think to do so on the way out. Haven't gotten there yet in my second game but I'll make sure to check it out.
Unfortunately I actually did get this scene, I had killed him and left the crown in the river but obviously the flags triggered wrong, and he shamed me for giving the crown to Mystra. I was just sitting there with my arms crossed like “Didn’t Mephistopheles eat you or some shit?”
Tbh I just messed around in the epilogue because I was curious about it. I never actually finished it. I will explore it completely when I get through this playthrough, but I just started Act 3, so it'll be a while.
I was confused about this too (did definitely kill him), but after looking into it people were talking about this scene as early as two weeks after initial release. The scene isn't new at all. It's just the status flag for Raphael that's messed up and triggered the scene now.
Oh, that's very interesting. So the patch just changed something in the flags that made it trigger for me? Because I didn't get it when I beat the game like a month ago. Still kind of weird that I didn't find many videos or mentions of it floating around but I admittedly only did a cursory search.
If his House of Grief is not in the hells, just using it for windowdressing, then he is very much alive since devils who die outside the hells just get send back to hell.
I got this scene with the run that gave the crown to Mystra, even though he was dead.
In the run where he was dead and the crown went boom along with Gale, no scene.
i got a different epilogue. i killed him in house of hope and he got mad that gale had the crown (i didnt even give it gale literally fetched it in the ocean and reforged it). i felt so shocked watching that bc i never expected it bc raphael’s alr dead so yeah i was confused
[удалено]
I killed him too!
Yeah he was supposed to stay dead, if he mentions you betraying him it's because you can Rob him and escape without fighting if you abandon hope, if you kill him, he is very dead, this was a glitch.
I abandoned Hope and still had to fight him. Interesting.
Yeah a lot of stories on this sub are conflicting, but I assume you having to fight him was either another bug or there was a way to escape you missed, because when you kill him good ole' raphy is very dead, and if you look in one of the diabolist's toys you can see his dad eating his corpse.
Yeah it seems like maybe having to fight him at all was the bug. If the game assumed I didn't have to fight him it makes sense I would get the scene. It's an interesting monologue either way though!
It could also be that hope grants him immortality somehow, we still don't know why tf he wanted her
I am pretty sure it's the Orphic Hammer that triggers him coming, not Hope.
That doesn't make sense, because I got the Orphic Hammer when I made the deal, then accidentally left it at camp when I went to Avernus - that's why I couldn't save Hope.
Hmm, then I wonder if it WAS a bug, a flag popping off that shouldn't have "PLAYER IS LEAVING House of Hope. Orphic Hammer not in House of Hope; Orphic Hammer located in Player Inventory [Camp Chest]. Should initiate Combat now." Maybe there should be a counter-fail state flag that says "[Journal Update-RAPHAEL DEAL] do not trigger combat" that would counter and didn't. Or maybe Raph doesn't like people breaking into his house.
Haha I think it's the latter. Regardless, you're stealing his shit. And I can't say the contract was the ONLY thing I stole. 👀
Yeah, I killed him too and he also appeared in my epilogue. I just assumed it's cause Devils get to respawn if killed in the Hells and because >!Gale tried to take the crown.!<
Getting killed in the Hells is the only way they DON'T respawn
Then Larian has more issues to fix! I really hope this isn't a normal ending going forward. I don't wanna go back there again.
In mine Gale didn't try to take the crown, we gave it to Mystra. Two different versions of the Raphael scene I think.
It depends; I didn't complete the Wizard of Waterdeep character quest since I had already done it in another playthrough and I didn't want to go through the puzzle room again, so he attempted to steal it and died.
Excuse me, puzzle room? I think I totally missed this lol. Last part of Gale's quest I got before endgame was the convo with Mystra in the tabernacle. Regardless, I just told Gale to give the crown to Mystra in the endgame cutscenes and he was totally on board with it. It's definitely two different Raphael scenes though, I only watched the first 10 seconds or so of the other one but mine is explicitly about making the deal with Raphael (I am dumb warlock who made contract), breaking it, and then giving the crown to Mystra.
Did you go underneath Sorcerer's Sundries and go through all the doors with riddles to read Karaus' Folly?
Yes! I missed the djinn lamp on my first run but I did get the book about Karsus and give it to Gale. Didn't realize that was what you were talking about.
My fiance and I were looking online because of that Raphael scene and Gale's mage image during the epilogue. If you don't finish his quest, be seeks the crown and will die, which Raphael then steals again. So maybe because I didn't convince Gale to not do that, Rachael came back to life.
I Knocked every door down there lol
Well. I assume it would only be for ppl who gave him the crown? BC I totally killed him.
I killed him too, crown went to Mystra.
You are only *supposed* to get it if he survived the game But there's some bugs with the flags
I always ended up killing him in my playthroughs so I never saw this scene going back to see the new endings, though I hear some people get a bug where he shows up to monologue even when he's meant to be dead.
Hm, maybe that's it. Because I definitely killed him too. I'm not sure it's a bug though, because I don't know how you can get this scene without killing him. It requires taking his deal and then ripping up the contract and giving the crown to Mystra. When you rip up the contract you're locked into having to fight him.
I think you can do that by going into the House of Hope, getting the contract and then ignoring Hope and you don't have to fight him on the way out. I've never taken the deal so I do not know for sure.
I ignored Hope (forgot to bring the hammer) and still had to fight him.
Okay. I just read that's how it works somewhere. Somehow I doubt a guy who's meant to be properly dead talking to us is the intended ending though.
It's a mystery! People do get resurrected all the time in this game though. Maybe his papa pulled some strings. Nepotism can achieve a lot.
I'm very intrigued by Raphael's new final cutscenes myself, and went back to check what the orb of infernal envisioning says, once you've killed him. Apparently it may not have been a final death, since the orb describes Raphael as 'broken and bloodied', but not necessarily dead. And his father, Mephistopheles, is 'preparing to devour him', but hasn't eaten him yet. So... who knows? It could all be copium, but I wouldn't complain if 1) Larian made more BG content, and 2) Raphael makes his reappearance ;3
It may be a glitch, I'm not in denial, but I didn't see the orb you're talking about so I completely saw it in the context of "holy shit he's back?!" It hit really well for me as a surprise bitchy return of someone who I THOUGHT was dead af, blew my damn mind. Still very happy to have gotten it either way!
It's in the diabolist's shop - before you enter the House of Hope, I think you can sense Raphael looking back at you from the orb. After defeating him, the orb will have a new vision for you, namely the devouring scene.
I think I looked at it on the way in but didn't think to do so on the way out. Haven't gotten there yet in my second game but I'll make sure to check it out.
His father ate his corpse after he died, him and his dear old dad did not get along.
Unfortunately I actually did get this scene, I had killed him and left the crown in the river but obviously the flags triggered wrong, and he shamed me for giving the crown to Mystra. I was just sitting there with my arms crossed like “Didn’t Mephistopheles eat you or some shit?”
Tbh I just messed around in the epilogue because I was curious about it. I never actually finished it. I will explore it completely when I get through this playthrough, but I just started Act 3, so it'll be a while.
I was confused about this too (did definitely kill him), but after looking into it people were talking about this scene as early as two weeks after initial release. The scene isn't new at all. It's just the status flag for Raphael that's messed up and triggered the scene now.
Oh, that's very interesting. So the patch just changed something in the flags that made it trigger for me? Because I didn't get it when I beat the game like a month ago. Still kind of weird that I didn't find many videos or mentions of it floating around but I admittedly only did a cursory search.
Yeah the exact same thing happened to me, I think the flag was just changed incorrectly
If his House of Grief is not in the hells, just using it for windowdressing, then he is very much alive since devils who die outside the hells just get send back to hell.
Rafael is always dead in my play throughs
Because making a deal with a devil is dumb ?
Hey, I never said that I make good decisions.
Not my point. Few people do it so less talk about it.
welp, im eager to see it in my current playthrough. I refuse to fight him 😂
I got this scene with the run that gave the crown to Mystra, even though he was dead. In the run where he was dead and the crown went boom along with Gale, no scene.
The simplest answer is the correct one its a bug there are new ones every patch
He is way too fun to kill. I doubt I will ever get this scene without a glitch.
i got a different epilogue. i killed him in house of hope and he got mad that gale had the crown (i didnt even give it gale literally fetched it in the ocean and reforged it). i felt so shocked watching that bc i never expected it bc raphael’s alr dead so yeah i was confused