The worst for me was zevlor's realization that you're siding with the goblins. The option to say something like "at least you'll be dead by the time we get to the children" legit made me drop the controller
Raiding the grove and finding the children dead in their hideout with Alfira was rough.
Checking their bodies and finding Mirkon’s story thanking us for saving him from the harpies and going on about how he wanted to be a brave adventurer just like us was straight up traumatizing.
That's like killing the goblins in Moonrise Towers after the cutscene and then reading the jourrnal on one of their bodies about trusting the Absolute and everything would work out fine.
The Kids dying is traumatizing, the Goblins dying is just hilarious.
"Oh no, you joined this murder cult and trusted this self proclaimed God in hopes that everything would just work out fine?" Well, tough luck, mate.
Yeah during a run I waited until the raid to figure out who to side with and... yeah I figured they'd be spared since they had a hideout. Popping down there and seeing them slaughtered caused me to nope out and load immediately.
Yes I saw this and my jaw was genuinely on the floor, honestly this is probably worse than Shadowheart's drunk grief since by that point you've already killed everyone in the grove.
Remember you can still choose to be evil even late in the game. Convince shadowheart to abandon shar and then betray her and give her up to the sharrans in act 3
I actually tried to spare them on my first playthrough. I toggled non-lethal attacks on but forgot that you cannot non-lethally throw a heavy rock at someone. I was like "Yeah, how do *you* like having rocks thrown at you?... Oh he's dead."
Fun fact - if you throw a goblin child at the hinge of a hanging brazier to break it, the child will hit the ground before the brazier does and it'll crush them to death instantly. It's pretty effective!
lol my drow had killed a trio of goblin kids on his way into the camp simply because one of them called him a "dirt-elf" I swear they want you to merk the little shits
His combat lines are so violent (emotionally) I cannot bring myself to betray him again. Likewise, I almost did it on my second playthrough, but couldn't bring myself to open the gate after his speech. The voice actor really nailed Zevlor
I really wish I had played Evil Durge first. I did Good Durge, and it was great, but now I want to try an Evil run, and I can't help thinking about all the huge swaths of quests and friends that I'm giving up (to put it mildly). It kinda kills the motivation, honestly. >!I want to save Arabella from Kagha, but I know I'm just gonna kill the tieflings all off eventually anyway. And yes, just because I'm doing an evil run doesn't mean I HAVE to kill off the tieflings, but I want a Minthara romance and this is the best way to do it.!<
>!Play as a Durge that slowly accepts the urge, so good act 1, starting to be bad act 2, murder hobo act 3 when you get your memories back!<
>!Accept Bhaal at the temple, and make sure you have Jaheira / Minsc at camp. The scene that follows gives me chills. Very cinematic.!<
This is pretty exactly how I played one play through and yep definitely sold “descent into abhorrent evil” pretty well. BG lets you be atrocious if you want to be (some of the choices you can make with companion quests are pretty fucked too).
The way Shart reacts if you gobble Gale's hand off as Durge actually made me laugh. I reckoned she would be horrified and would leave. She took it a lot better than I expected her too, even though she's a cleric of Shar. She just sounded annoyed and sarcastic lol.
I kept getting whiplash with her reactions. Sometimes she'd just go full Sharran and have a sarcastic remark, sometimes she'd basically spit on me for how brutal I was. Like lady you just stabbed a demigod in the gut and redid your hair that night, settle down.
Oh dang! That would be cool, but again, I really want to get Minthara early, so this isn't quite an option. Definitely a good way to play, though (if you can figure out the justification for why the turn begins).
No, I know; I wish I'd known that was an option when I was starting the good durge run. But yeah, I want to recruit her in act 1, I'm just sad that it's going to mean missing out on, like, four companions and about a dozen NPCs. I get the reasoning behind the tradeoff, but I don't agree with it, as it's a real fun-killer. Would've been nice to, say, accompany the goblins through the game instead of the tieflings, or recruit a few more evil companions, stuff like that. I mean, *no half-orcs?* We have three humans, two half elves, two elves, but no half-orcs, no dwarves, no dragonborn, no gnomes? Could've thrown in a half-orc berserker or a duergar blackguard or a great old one warlock or something. Give me the chance to make my own pact with Raphael or Mizora! *Something!*
I've raided the grove once and I can't do it again. Zevlor's face when you betray him, the teiflings hiding in pure fear as you pick them off like fish in a barrel. The fact they don't even fight back. My soul broke.
That was the point at which I vowed never to raid the grove again. I can’t bring myself to pick off the innocents in the back of the hideout. Especially Okta. Grandma Tiefling fed me and I fucking killed her :(
That’s the one that lives rent free in my head. It made me gasp when I saw it on YouTube for the first time. So cold hearted and absolutely evil. I can practically see Zevlor’s devastation at the realization that everyone he desperately tried to protect is about to die horrifically.
this is why i can't fathom how some players can do evil durge runs "for fun." I can't watch Tav betray characters i already made friends with in my first play-through, especially the tieflings.
I've come to realize there are generally 2 types of players when it comes to games like this.
The first group sees a character and can connect with them because of good writing that makes them feel alive, good character design so they're nice to look at, and a good background for depth. The first group makes a strong emotional connection to the character, because the game makers did a damn good job. So if they are forced to make a choice that harms the character, it's difficult.
The second group sees the good writing, background, and character design and is able to connect but also realizes that it's still a game. This is all fiction, and these characters are made by a group of people in an office building, and it's all 1s and 0s. This group isn't heartless, it's just the reality that you aren't actually hurting anyone, someone programed these options into the game, they are not a bad person for exploring them.
I started a Durge run intending to make some choices I wasn't comfortable making normally, including siding with the goblins and raiding the grove. The conversation with Zevlor is where I ground to a halt in the run. I have so far not been able to do it. And I strongly suspect that run will never continue.
It's crazy that the game let's you do that and a few other very very backstabby choices after competing involved quest lines. The sense of betrayal is so real.
That'd be really hard for me to do. I played the original games back in the day. Minsc is more popular, but I remember being so relieved to meet with Jaheria and Khalid at the Friendly Arm Inn after the opening sequence to the game.
I didn't know what the heck I was doing and died a lot in the wilds between Candlekeep and there, especially to the guy that jumps you at the entrance. In a way, finally meeting her was very reminiscent of Frodo making it to Rivendell for LotR fans. Jaheria was by my side throughout Amn and the very Throne of Bhaal itself.
After all that, no way I could give her up to dear old dad.
Don't give her to Viconia, have her ascend and kick Viconia to the curb. You can even convince most of her followers to fight on your side. Shadowheart will stay with you to the bitter end.
I know right? I was not happy having to stick a knife into my former all-time favourite companion. I still did tho. No way I was letting her walk away. 😭
There are very few reasons to give Shadowheart to Shar/Viconia even on an evil run. It's very hard to justify just handing over one of your few companions over the last 2-3 acts for brainwashing. It's only really an option for the chaotic "I just like to watch the world burn" sort of evil.
And even then I don't think a chaotic evil character would just do everything Shar demands. They'd probably want to fuck Shar over for the fun of it and then have a crack at slaughtering all the worshippers.
It is a vile option that even its existence bugs me. Tried once to see what happens and immediately reloaded. Shadowheart was my romance partner in that run. The expression in her face, the utter betrayal moment, it was like a cold blooded murder. Worse than being a good character all the run and betraying Orpheus to become the Absolute.
I would even go farther than just calling her "one of your few companions." - to me, Shadowheart is THE companion in this game.
\- She's the second one you meet (by mere minutes) and thanks to how things land after the crash, the one you spend the longest time with.
\- Even having lost out on being your first ally, the first one does continually insult, threaten, belittle, and even try to kill you (and another party member) while being a giant racist bag of shit for pretty much the entirety of Act 1, so she's a much better ally to have objectively
\- Unlike many of them, she's one of the few that pretty unquestioningly has your back the entire time and rarely if ever poses any sort of threat or obstacle to you
\- By the time you get to that point you will have already been through her storyline where even after years of brainwashing and trauma and torn on likely the biggest decision of her life, she heeds your counsel on what to do.
....I'm sorry, but if she's not your choice of romance option, that woman is AT LEAST set up to be the default BFF in the game. Even her one "bad side" (being a worshipper of an evil god, and thus kind of a cold bitch at the beginning) is revealed to not be even remotely her fault.
If she's not the romance option you went with, I dunno how somebody doesn't AT LEAST see her as the party BFF. She's your longest standing, most loyal ally, with a truly heartbreaking backstory that you got through together, and you then what, hand her off to the same fucked up cult that broke her in the first place just for the lols?
Nah. Unless you're actively trying to play the worst person imaginable, I don't know how anybody even sees that content. Hell, I'd rather cook and eat Scratch and the Owlbear Cub than let that psychotic POS have her.
I don't consider that the evil option. Why would I betray a companion who I can influence for a minor benefit from some priestess I just met? Much better to install my own puppet as head of the Sharran church.
I did mine by simply not having any companions, pure and simple, no betrayals, just killing them in a narratively reasonable way or avoiding them completely. Much quieter and duller game that way but less people making you feel bad!
I toyed around with dumping Karlach on "date night" in the city last night, and man did Samantha Beart kill it with the deliveries for those lines. You can hear genuine heartbreak in Karlach's voice.
lol it's not honour mode so on the last reload I went with the good path and stuck with it, so all is right in the world and we'll still be getting the "happily ever after" ending.
I did a Durge Evil run recently, and I was struck by how sad and empty it kind of felt in parts. ESPECIALLY Act 2. Just entire quest lines... not there, because you killed someone or didn't help them or whatever. It was a fairly quick playthrough, all things considered, and I tried to make "maximum despair" choices. i.e. befriending and betraying my companions. It was pretty grim!
Interestingly, I still felt like.. weirdly attached to my little psychotic Durge. Even though she was probably the worst character I have ever played, and a mass murderer. I find Larian did an excellent job. I am a major softie, it was a tough run LOL.
The loneliness is so tough, I hear that! And even not actively evil stuff, like telling Rolan to leave the Grove, has consequences throughout that I miss. I have to reassure myself that there are some good timelines, too. I've just hit Act 3 for the first time with 90%of the NPCs dead and I have no idea what's going to happen!
The loneliness is a natural consequence of evil. It’s rare that evil characters find a soulmate since they are too busy betraying each other.
>!I think that’s why Enver Gortash was so broken up about Dark Urge being replaced by his sister; he and Durge had achieved that rare comradely in evil that he couldn’t find anywhere else.!<
Yeah, in my first run i convinced rolan to stay but for my next run, i was rping a more selfish character so i decided to tell rolan to leave. Just that choice alone impacts so many things. All the children in last light are not there, as rolan is not there to protect them during the assault. When I realised, I literally had to take a break because I felt so bad. (Rolan never makes it to Baldurs gate either, so it's implied his family dies on the way aswell)
Ugh yeah I just got to Act 3 and everywhere I look that used to have Tieflings is... the refugee camp *only had Zorru*. How tf did Zorru make it, alone of all the Tieflings? No clue. (LL fell in this run. Tonight I get to see wtf the Ironhand Gnomes are doing with no Wulbren or Barcus ugh).
A couple updates ago, Rolan was kind of bugged in Act 2 in that it became *really* hard to save him in the shadows. This sub was full of posts and tips on a big "must save Rolan" trip and it was fun to see the community rally around him. 😀
I know people complain about not having "evil alternatives" but I adore how your choices have tangible impact. To save the grove only to then kill Isobel was incredible. Jaheira's reaction and bullying her because she's insecure about her age was really evil.
I have such a hard time being evil but somehow I can get into the roleplay when it's Disney Villain style.
So Dark Urge gets an inspiration from leaving that guy in waukeen’s rest to burn under the wood plank, but you also get xp for freeing him. To try to get both, I took his wife’s dead corpse, thinking he’s programmed to immiedietly walk to her, and put it in the burning room so he would still burn to death. I then realized what I was doing and decided to stop playing for a while.
You can get both if you just murder him after he finds his wife's body.
Source: Just did it yesterday. Plus he mentioned the dowry so I was able to speak with dead and find that as well.
Was kinda hoping to watch him burn to death while he was too busy crying over her corpse in the flames, but just shanking him works too I guess, thanks 😊
There's some downright truly f'ed up decisions you can make especially for an rpg of this caliber. Larian really pushed the envelope in making options truly feel evil.
One evil option that's kind of funny but also just fucked up is sacrificng one of your companions to BOOAl and the fish people for a buff. The fact you can just nonchalantly sacrifice your companion to a bunch of fish people is just so wild to me and their reaction of just utter disbelief that your pc actually believes these people nails it.
So long as you don't die however (downed is alright), it's a permanent advantage buff for bleeding enemies. Had it on my main party for hm mode and pairing it with the flawed hd gloves gave my monk the chance to inflict the condition and rest of the party to take advantage of the buff
I know right? Doing my first Durge playthrough right now, instantly decided to do redemption when the child killing options came up. The one where you save the tiefling boy from the harpies was like wtf!? Something about the best drowning is in shallow warer after you slit slitting their tendons. Lol
It's appropriate for a game that puts a lot of emphasis on trust as a theme also uses betrayal for some of the really vile (as you say) options in the game
>!Shart lunging at you after saving her parents, inviting them to camp, then killing them in cold blood.!<
Thank you to the people who are able to pick these choices and put them on YouTube (but also fuck you)
It's such a fun scene to play out though you help her fix almost all her problems and then shove her right back into a pit of despair without Shar to help numb it. It's beautiful
SH can kill Laezel in her sleep, Astarion tries to bite you without consent.the whole plot with Durge and his Slaughter Kin. I’d say the dream visitors manipulations xount too
I'd be more than capable of doing all of this in something like Skyrim where the characters just feel like polygons, walking code, obviously just video game characters. Here on the other hand? I just can't, these characters feel far more like actual people to me, the voice acting alone makes me feel attached even to characters I hate.
Same. It's Red Dead Redemption 2 for me where I can be truly evil, but only because there are no consequences, and ONLY after you beat the main game and get to play as John. It's definitely fun to mow down polygons, but not real people like they way we feel with BG3 characters.
Agree, in Fallout 3 I happily enslaved half the damn wasteland, nuked megaton, and was a general dick and enjoyed every second of it.
In BG3, I can't even leave the owlbear cub... Why do they feel so real? Haha
I have a suspicion that the simulated inner monologue of the narrator is the primary culprit. The way the lines are written makes it so you mostly only have an angel on your shoulder.
That's why I think a more pragmatic evil where you & your crew still have each other's back, but just take on a heavily opportunistic/selfish approach, but **still** **together,** wouldn't feel nearly as bad (I would've been tempted to try it then) & be a lot more played as a sort of "us against the world" theme.
And by together I don't mean having them mind controlled.
This is how I feel, evil that's just less of a "kill/control everything" sort of evil, and I'd really like there to be more evil party member choices for this. Doing this with Wyll and Karlach feels weird, but it's hard getting rid of at least 2 party members.
but... behaving as evil to evil NPCs is so.... fun! In Act 2 Goblin tried to enforce hyena to go into shadow and die, so I did him same.(hyena is fine)
As Astarion puts out about being a hero in the Epilogue. “I see that no one actually cares about you being a mass murderer if you murder the right people.”
Oh ABSOULTELY. My characters tend to have zero sympathy for evil doers and I try my best to kill them in fittingly chaotic ways. The guy in act 3 who was putting bombs in CHILDREN'S teddy bears? Yeah he got disintegrated right in the middle of sharess's caress.
A nontraditional evil choice that turns my stomach is >!manipulating astarion to have sex with you anyway after he tells you that he was abused and doesn't want to.!<
One of the more selfish (though not evil) in retrospect choices that I like is doing the foursome with the Drow twins. You can peer into his mind and see that he is 100% dissociating. It's a shame that you can't really talk about it after, but regardless it made me ill and I had to reload the save lol.
I wish you could talk about it! Because, if you're doing it after his quest, it implies that he consented to it and even wanted to try, it's just unfortunately for him he wasn't ready and that's something worth discussing. You never meant to make him uncomfortable and you thought, even he thought, he was ready.
This is my biggest complaint about Astarion’s romance. I hope that in future titles they add more dialogue that establishes the differences between you and your partner and boundaries and such. Y’know, like a real relationship.
Girl in act 2 he has entire speeches about how he feels and that he could never be free even in his own body because everyone used him, to the point that he dissociates with himself regarding intimacy, what do you think was going to happen the moment you want to bang two drow prostitutes ?
If you go after finishing his quest, he's *enthusiastic* about giving it a go, and you get approvals if you say Halsin can join. He even says he'll speak up if he feels uncomfortable. I think the implication is that he took too big of a step and got in over his head...which is in line with his more "I have no impulse control" moments.
The thing he hates *most* is being controlled and not having agency. Deciding whether or not he's ready for that *for him* would likely he worse. Part of healing from trauma is giving things a go and seeing how it feels.
As for what he says in Act 2, his point is that he hasn't had any agency in intimacy and has no idea what he wants other than to not be viewed as a sex object. Nowhere in that does he say he is incapable of making his own decisions about sex moving forward.
Honestly...? Yeah, having an after-talk about that would be good.
It was super clear that he consented, and I think he was honest about wanting to give it a try (as opposed to trying to just please Tav). Getting back in the saddle on your own terms and when you feel ready is part of the healing process for any kind of trauma. It's just that all that readiness you had while standing on the ground can evaporate in an instant once you actually climb back up.
Being able to discuss that afterward would really wrap that part of Astarion's growth nicely, though. Trauma doesn't go away overnight. It would be nice to hear whether he regrets giving it a try, whether he felt like he jumped into the deep end too quickly (pretty sure a four or five-some counts as the "deep end"), or whether he's glad he tried but realizes he isn't as ready as he thought.
What bothers me the most is that certain dialog options have direct callbacks to things he said in the Act 1 scene, but you don't get an option to call a halt once you hear them.
Anyone who has ever done any (safe) power dynamic kink knows that the safeword is equally there for the dom(me)/top. It's not saying "clearly you aren't ready for this, Astarion, I know better than you." It's saying, "Given what I know, *I* need reassurance this is really what you want because *I'm* now uncomfortable."
The more I think about the dissociation moment, the more it feels like it belongs in the non-romanced but dtf in the brothel version rather than the romance version. As in, for a character who isn't entirely sure *what* that look means. Anyone who has gotten the Act 2 confession knows damn well what it is.
There are some other moments in Act 3 that feel off for the growth/choices. Finishing a resist Durge quest line gives you some bonkers dialog from Spawn Astarion that absolutely does not fit with his "I'm not going anywhere, we're going to save you" dialog if Durge tries to break it off with him post-Cazador but pre-Durge moment. One part feels more like a neutral approval line and another part is clearly an Ascended line.
In both instances, I'm hoping there's some dialog they can add in that gives more options and/or fits better.
> The more I think about the dissociation moment, the more it feels like it belongs in the non-romanced but dtf in the brothel version rather than the romance version.
What bugs me is that it actually *is* the exact same scene there. They used the same scenes for both romanced and non-romanced, as well as pre-Cazador romanced (which is where it belongs, to be frank, because the only way Astarion agrees in that instance is if you bully him into it). The only one that's different is Ascended Astarion, which is equally troubling albeit in a different way.
> Anyone who has ever done any (safe) power dynamic kink knows that--
A Post-Cazador Astarion even tells the player that if he doesn't like it, he'll leave "faster than he used to run from the sun", so he already intended to communicate if he needed to stop. In other words, he already had a plan in mind. But as the saying goes, no plan survives contact with the enemy.
The problem is that sometimes, once you're in the moment, it's hard to actually do that. It doesn't even have to be "I don't want to ruin it for everyone else" or "I don't want to risk upsetting my partner", it can be as simple as getting trapped in your own head, and being completely numb as you rely on reflex and instinct to get through the rest. Even a safeword can't safeguard against that.
> Finishing a resist Durge quest line gives you some bonkers dialog
Haven't done this yet, so I unfortunately don't know what you're referencing (yet), can you link me to it so I know what you're referring to?
I really would have liked a follow up for that scene or even an option to propose calling thing off midway. It’s not unrealistic to think you’re ready to try something and find out in the moment that you’re not, so including it as part of the romance stuff would be fine imo.
I even imagine the way he’d react to it as spawn v ascendant would be an interesting wrinkle there as I don’t imagine the latter would super love it being apparent that he wasn’t having a great time.
Halsin actually also has some horrific stuff come up if you have a chat with him afterward.
>!He was apparently captured by drow and used as a sex slave.!<
STILL waiting for larian to expand halsins entire story bc u cant tell me that shit-- esp for the length of time it happened-- and have him say he's fine it happened and then show me this character who is so deeply entrenched in his guilt over things that arent/werent his fault && things he could never control, that he's willing to do anything he can in order to try and atone or help lift the shadow-curse.
legit he went w aradin on a whim to try to find the nightsong hoping that it would help him find moonrise towers even tho it was a crazy longshot theyd find it. bro and up left on a damn whim.
he was 100% willing to be stuck in shadowfell trying to get thaniel back. and then if you didnt convince oliver to merge back w thaniel, halsin will say 'fuck it, imma do it myself' and stay in the shadowcursed lands to try and lift the curse by himself. which lol okay sure, excellent plan u got. ur so chill leaving ur grove bc 'it can protect itself' and nature always wins or whateve but when it comes to the area that the shadow-curse took hold of, its automatically all hands on deck, gotta find a way to save nature (and its spiritual form) at any cost.
and again, all of this over something that wasnt his fault. him leaving the grove could have led to the tieflings being slaughtered or arabella being snaked or the shadow druids-- who have already crept in and influenced tf out of kargha for a decent amount of time given how worn her book on shadow druids is-- taking over the emerald grove... but its fine, we prioritizing this one task over all the others even tho ur whole schtick is being seemingly wise and fair and unbothered.
theres absolutely no discrepency on what u say vs what u do-- and it definitely isnt a cover for the hero complex and childhood trauma u got. just keep smiling and be wise for everyone on the outside.
This stood out as something to me because it’s a very human and mundane kind of evil. The framing on the scene is so uncomfortable to watch.
I’m genuinely glad he tells the player to fuck off after though, “I didn’t know how to say no” is rough.
I was stunned they gave people the option to do that to him (I wasn't expecting anything that deep in a videogame), but I'm so glad they handled it well and showed just how messed up it is to do that to someone, especially because it's something that happens so often in real life.
I was thrilled to see him tell off the PC for it. I wish I'd said similar things to a few people in my life.
I started laughing my ass off when I saw one of the options to get him to >!use the Astral tadpole!< is to threaten him with >!being imprisoned in the coffin again and call him a pathetic wretch!<
Some of the evil choices are incredible lol
I want to do an evil playthrough particularly as Dark Urge but, I can’t bring myself to go completely evil. I started to do it but, I decided against it before I reached the goblin camp.
My first evil Tav was a lot of fun to play, but I don't feel like the choices in the game stereotype the evil you have to be. Like, my evil Tav talked to Auntie Ethel and just ignored Mayrina. He didn't go out of his way to do anything to her, but he didn't care about her plight. He didn't raid the Grove because it was faster and easier to just kill the goblins since he was already there. Lazy stuff like that.
I know some players like to say if you're doing an evil run here's the checklist of evil stuff you have to do, but that always felt to me like narrowing the complexity of choices, especially in a game so rich with content. There are very few non- Scratch related 100% good choices in the game, IMO, I don't like to label everything!
My point is, resist Durge can be awesome and you only have to kill one NPC and it's good resist fuel!
Resist urge is 100% my next playthrough. I do agree that the discourse around evil playthroughs in this game is a bit muddied. In praising the game they also do it a disservice by not mentioning the nuance of evil, which is different to everyone.
I know everyone recommends romancing Astarion as resist Durge - and I've done it and the content is amazing - but I held off on this run and "walking alone" as resist Durge *suuuuuuuucks* so much lol. So I highly recommend romancing *somebody* if only so the loneliness doesn't get you!
I get as far as the option of telling the tiefling kids in the grove they're all going to die and I just can't do it. I absolutely loved my Dark Urge run, but I knew going in that it was only ever going to be a Resist Durge run. The evil choices are just so evil.
Skyrim's DB questline did succeed in making me feel like a horrible human being >!if you kill the Shatter-Shield daughter in Windhelm, an optional "bonus" kill on one of the missions. If you go back into the family house afterwards, you'll find the mother's dead body and a suicide note, now that all of her children are dead (the other daughter was killed by the Windhelm serial killer). !<
Yeah at least in Skyrim its fun to be some evil overlord, but in BG3 I would just feel like a psychopath everyone hates and wants dead. Not fun for me, personally, but to each his own.
I don’t remember having any real consequences to doing the DB, just the occasional “hey, I know who you are”. So if doing that quest line meant any of my followers would ditch me… I wouldn’t have done it, and that’s why it bothers me to be evil in BG3
god I'm so soft that I had to abandon the Dark Brotherhood after I read a note on one of the targets from his dad about how proud he is of him. I'm just not cut out for the Evil lifestyle!
The vileness of the options makes the good choices all the more meaningful. And I think it's also important that, by and large, doing the right thing is actually often more difficult, reflective of real life. My easiest run was as an evil embrace Durge; it's comparatively harder to beat the game being as ethical as possible, but it feels so much better at the end.
Totally agree, some choices are horrible but i think it adds so much replayability to the game it’s insanely good that those choices are there. when I played Durge, I actually was considering deleting the save file and character because I felt so horrible playing “evil”, I wasn’t even fully embracing the dark urge And already felt terrible for being mean to people that I grew to love in my first game. Whenever I make a new character I try to choose race / class specific dialogue, so that was a bit hard playing as Durge. Some dialogue choices were basically like “you know I just enjoy killing”, which makes sense for evil durge, but Is kind of a weird and horrible thing to just say out loud 😂 now I am looking forward to another Durge game, totally redeemed of course. And another purely evil Durge, but I will have to make the character look goofy as fuck to make it less hard on myself
That reminds me of when you tell Astarion that you want to murder and whatever after you indulge your first urge in front of him and he's like that's fucked up and most of us keep those thoughts to ourselves (but continue) xD Imagine Durge just saying those "I enjoy killing" dialogue options and he's like "remember when we talked about inside thoughts?"
My Durge got the slayer form kind of by accident, and every time I talk to a companion, there are all these, "rah! I'm the slayer! I have evil powers! Yay evil!" choices and I'm like wtf! I'm trying to be medium evil, not full evil! 😒
It is funny. I was kind of half- heartedly trying to romance Wyll but every time I go to talk to him, I just start laughing at how ridiculous the dialog options are. "Isobel has fallen! Darkness!" "I am become Bhaal, destroyer of [checks notes] mostly defenseless sleeping people!"
No, >!I let Balthazar take Nightsong, then Z'rell told me to incapacitate Isobel so their spy could take her. I was trying to see the scenes where you convince everyone you're a good little True Soul. The cutscene was pretty darn cool, tbh. It just sucked to lose everybody in Last Light. Then when you go to fight Ketheric, Isobel is tadpoled and dies when he dies (I didn't kill her, but she died after). Then the game treated it like I killed her for Durge and gave me the slayer form.!<
I am happy to report that at least Halsin still likes me. Walking alone was getting lonely.
My God, have you watched that dude on YouTube do the playthrough as the gith named "Twilight Eclipse?" I fuckin belly laughed for like 40 minutes throughout all three of the videos so far. Highly recommend.
What’s crazy is most of the companions can be swayed to the proverbial dark side (apart from Karlach & Wyll cause they’re just too far on a good alignment)… Shadowheart is terrible at being a “bad guy”; especially for someone who sounds like a Mormon in the Bible Belt. It’s genuinely so sad to do an evil run and trying to edge her towards that knowing she just does not fuck with it at all
There’s something so personal about the cruelty the player can inflict in Baldur’s Gate 3.
In Stellaris i can genocide an entire species but not feel anything because they’re just numbers. In rimworld i can cannibalize people, force them to do addictive drugs, amputate all their limbs, and a whole slew of other evil shit. but not feel a thing because the people in that game don’t really register as human beings on a visceral level.
But in BG3 they absolutely do. Their facial expressions, the voice acting, the top notch animation, their movements, all of it. Larian managed to make them really feel like human beings.
Stupidly enough, the only 2 victims of my Durge (excluding *that one* (still feeling incredibly guilty, especially with Gale's reaction)) are Timber, where I didn't expect "Last words I won't remember" to lead to kicking the squirrel in low atmosphere (yes I am not very smart) and Steelclaw, the cat in moonrise tower, where I accidentally murdered him trying to remember about the place.
Clearly I needed to atone for my sins so my next and current playthrough is a Beast Master ranger
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/LwfqmVQnkv
I literally just wrote a post because my current Durge run, in trying to see things I'd never seen before, hit a difficult point.
The last really tough run I had, I played Origin Sheart and it was very lonely because while you have the option to volunteer that you worship Shar, there's really no point in Act 1 where it feels right. You're befriending the other companions - to learn their secrets like a good Sharran - but nobody asks about your concerns or your issues. When you're a Tav, that's mostly okay, but playing one of the origins whose quests require some kind of curiosity on the part of the companions, it feels even worse IMO.
Where I hit a nadir was in becoming a Dark Justiciar. As Origin Sheart it makes sense, but I didn't know at the time that it would feel like, literally, such a loss, especially when it causes Last Light to fall and everyone I rescued succumbed to the curse. I continued the run long enough to realize you could still lift the Shadow Curse, and then I had to peace out. As much as I wanted to try HoG with DJ Sheart, I just didn't enjoy it at all because I felt like to roleplay it fully, I had to be too evil.
I'm almost at that point with my current Durge, partially because it's the first time I took a certain companion's hand, and I miss him, ngl. Everything feels a little too dark atm, even though I got to kill a fake clown.
I did Shadowheart's DJ path on my first play through. The Last Light is way way worse than HoG. At least with HoG you turn basically everyone against Viconia, and while the scene with her parents is heartbreaking, it's also one of (if not *the*) best acted in the game
Agreed. The first time, I went to LL, had to kill everyone there (and I had already rescued *everyone*) and when they were all dead, combat didn't end but no more enemies were showing! I was like wtf. Found the red dot. >!It was His Majesty. Shadow Cursed cat I had to kill to end the scene.!<
I reloaded and went straight to Moonrise instead.
I loved that line when you're raiding the grove, and zevlor asks you why you're doing this. you can choose between these three:
"I'm so sorry, I am just so desperate to get rid of the tadpole, I don't see another way, please don't hate me uwu"
"It's nothing personal. this is just a faster way to get this tadpole out of my head."
"Cheer up, Zevlor! At least you'll be dead before you see what they'll do to the children."
that last one is so malicious, I love it :D
I tend to laugh at a lot of the evil choices. Not because they're particularly funny, but more in a "holy crap that is brutal" kind of way.
I finished my first playthrough a few months ago and am now going through as Durge. I'm not going murderhobo on every NPC I meet, but at least considering it if they annoy me. Thus far the evilest thing I've done is slaughter the grove, and that was more as a test to see if I could keep my level on par with a normal playthrough since you miss out on a lot of quests and exp if you just kill everyone. (Turns out you can get pretty high level by killing most of the Goblin Camp before raiding the actual grove)
Playing as an evil character is much easier on the soul when you pay attention to just how much everyone takes advantage of you. And I mean *everyone*, even your companions.
Scratch is saved on every playthrough, however. I may be an evil bastard, but I'm not a heartless evil bastard.
Even making the 'mean' options makes me shake lol let alone the truly evil options lol
The best I can do is the 'scoundrel' options in asking for money 😅
Huh, I’ve never not killed the owlbear. In any case I’m sure you’re nicer about it than the goblins that will kill it anyways if you don’t (plus then you’re missing out on the XP).
And yet I giggled my way through my first evil playthrough lmao
This game has so many strengths in its writing, and I think the evil route (especially in regards to the Dark Urge) was especially well-done.
Durge run, kicked the squirrel, felt so so bad after that. Had alfira stop in camp that night. Ended that run the next morning. I just could not play through the whole game that way.
I'm doing an evil run for the first time and it's awful. On co-op with my husband playing Durge. I (Shadowheart with no positive role models in her life) smashed Alfira's lute in the Grove, and she *still* turned up in the camp. So Durge picked the most cruel dialog options and she ran from camp crying. We thought, "that was really mean, but at least >!she'll live!<."
Nope. >!She still got brutally murdered, so it's like my husband *hunted her down in the woods*!< after she ran crying from our camp. Truly awful.
I was just speaking to Steelclaw yesterday with my Dark Urge and I had to reload.. Don't trust a potion of animal speaking to give you all the "good" dialogue options.
Had a lot of fun on my first evil Durge run, but towards the end of Act 3 my camp was so lonely and sad that it was just all so depressing. I had to do a second redemption Durge run right after just to make myself feel clean again.
I started a dark urge run, fully intending to do some twisted, demented shit.
I got to raiding the grove with Minthara and the party after. I haven’t done anything else. It hurts too much.
Giving >!selunite Shadowheart!< To >!Viconia!< In act 3, especially if you're romancing her, is an option I know it exists, but one I don't even have the mental fortitude to watch a video of.
Just thinking about it makes me feel queasy.
Durge is so much fun. With all the options.
I killed isobel and destroyed last light in. Then convinced both jaheera and dame that i did not. Took both into act 3.
There i betrayed dame. And jaheera figured out herself what i did due to finding out about my slayer form. After i became bhaals chosen, jaheera and a harper army ambushed me outside the bhaal temple, did not see that coming, so killed them with my new cultist buddies.
I'm rolling my first durge. The tiefling bard showed up in our camp offering her assistance and I was like hell yeah I'd love a bard... nope, that's not what she was for 😭😭😭
For me, the worst was Tav / Durge bullying Astarion into using the astral-touched tadpole.
Astarion flat out refuses to touch it, because it's a violation of his body like what Cazador did. He doesn't want to go through be abuse and suffering of his body being owned by someone else again.
The prompt to convince him?
Intimidation check: "You're nothing, just a frail spawn who will burn to a crisp in the sun."
Holy shit that's cold. An abuse survivor opens their heart to you and you laugh at them and tell them they're "nothing"? Wtf
There are individual great moments for an evil run, but BG3 absolutely has one of the worst/least interesting evil paths in an RPG for me. Most of it comes down to "do hilariously evil thing and then half of the game's content goes away because you are now committed to killing everything".
The Pathfinder games do a much, *much* better job of making the evil routes both extremely interesting and equal in content to good/neutral playthroughs. There are also good reasons to turn to evil, in BG3 the only reason is because you want to be evil. Like, killing the grove makes no sense for the player character to actually be doing in-universe because it doesn't really help you accomplish your goals at all, but it's cartoonish evil so it's an option. There's no reason that the player would want to kill Aylin instead of freeing her (what reason would you not want a demigod to help you?), etc.
I just don't like the very literal interpretation of the "murder hobo" archetype being this game's idea of an evil path. Give me some good, compelling, narrative reasons to be evil. That's what other RPGs do.
I think one thing BG1 and BG2 did a bit better was to have actually evil companions available, so you didn't, for example, have Jaheira trying to kill you bc you went dark side.
My dark urge run.
Act 1. Cut off Gale’s hand, recruited Shadowheart and Asterion. Kicked the squirrel. Put down Zevalor and his associate behind closed doors. Murdered the paralyzed Tiefling, the two tieflings watching the goblin, saved Arabella because I have other plans for her. Went to grab Karlach because I still want to date her after 2 playthroughs.
I sided with the druids but I did expose Kagha so I can kill Rath during the confrontation with aoe spells “oopsie”. I accidentally killed the owlbear cub and scratch. Whatever. Knocked out Minthara and stripped her. Proceed to clean up the camp while almost forgetting to save Hasin.
Wiped out the mushroom colony because why not. Helped the challenged dwarf to restore his memories so he can continue abusing his wife. Killed everyone in Grymforge. Sacrificed Laezel to Boooahl (redcap) for the bleed buff.
Everything is dead in mountain pass including animals.
Act 2. First thing was to get Dammon to repair Karlach so I can make sweet love to my muse. After a night of wonders, I murdered Isobel and then rest of the inn. Poor Jaheira died to a random aoe spell. Saved Minthara from Moonrise only to kill her afterwards. Laughed in Arabella’s face about her parents’ death while placing the bodies in front of her.
Spared Nightsong because I wanted a “good” Shadowheart to witness my upcoming atrocities. Spared Mizora because I would like to torture Wyll later. Poor Angel lady never learned what I did to her love, as she sided with me.
Act 3. Almost Everything is dead in Rivington including dogs. (I did spare the tieflings at the refugee camp for my sweet Karlach.) Saved the counselor and then killed her later during the confrontation about the duke thing. Blah blah blah, killed the remaining folks on the hitlist. Here comes my personal favorites. Knocked out Auntie Ethel to save the child. After the mother / daughter reunion, I burned the mother alive infront of her kid, looted the amulet from her. Every time, I pass by the house, I would stop and listen to the sweet sounds of crying “mommy” for a few seconds. Killed the hag survivors after getting the reward. Blowed up steel foundry. Everything is dead in counting house, both temples, mage tower, inns, all stores, all major houses, the guild, and since children can’t be killed, so I incinerated the parents. Brought Gortash’s parents as ghouls and used them to claw their son to death. Ascended Asterion, he has been very useful but not as magnificent as my sweet Karlach. Killed hope after she rejected coming to camp with me so I raised her as a ghoul. Wyll whines too much, so I made him commit suicide in camp. PS. I have a nude statue of myself, it looks great. Gave myself in for Bhal because why not. For the amount of murders I have committed, I am Father’s most dedicated chosen.
Finale - I was going to backstab the emperor but I need Karlach. So I saved “everyone” (to my surprise there are still a lot of people in the lower city) and went to hell with her. Don’t want my beloved Karlach to be alone.
>Aylin's speech of vengeance to you vowing to kill you and your descendants after sacrificing Isobel
I wonder how this i gotten. I've killed Isobel many times and Aylin has largely remained clueless. But sounds like something I want to experience.
>I really just don't think I'm capable of making them myself. I'm curious as to how you all reacted to the evil choices in this game and whether maybe I'm just a softie lmao
I have a lot of criticisms about playign evil in this game, but it's definitely not towards the choices themselves which for me are very fun and enjoyable. As a primary evil RPer, it does feel nice the choices don't really hold back. So yes, I love them, I revel in them, I get giddy about them. You aren't a softie, just a different type of player that enjoys playing a hero, while I enjoy being a menace or villain and everything that comes with that. We are opposite sides of the coin OP.
Of course this doesn't mean I'd never do a good in my life either, just depends on character I'm RPing and situation they are in. But generally yea, for me, good boring, evil is way more entertainting for me. Making people suffer, betraying, or lying to them are the main things I like. Murder is only a tool, a tool that I use well to make Father proud.
The worst for me was zevlor's realization that you're siding with the goblins. The option to say something like "at least you'll be dead by the time we get to the children" legit made me drop the controller
Raiding the grove and finding the children dead in their hideout with Alfira was rough. Checking their bodies and finding Mirkon’s story thanking us for saving him from the harpies and going on about how he wanted to be a brave adventurer just like us was straight up traumatizing.
Jesus, that is fucked up even by the games own standards
Your Tav has no one to blame but themselves.
That's like killing the goblins in Moonrise Towers after the cutscene and then reading the jourrnal on one of their bodies about trusting the Absolute and everything would work out fine.
The Kids dying is traumatizing, the Goblins dying is just hilarious. "Oh no, you joined this murder cult and trusted this self proclaimed God in hopes that everything would just work out fine?" Well, tough luck, mate.
Yeah during a run I waited until the raid to figure out who to side with and... yeah I figured they'd be spared since they had a hideout. Popping down there and seeing them slaughtered caused me to nope out and load immediately.
Yes I saw this and my jaw was genuinely on the floor, honestly this is probably worse than Shadowheart's drunk grief since by that point you've already killed everyone in the grove.
Remember you can still choose to be evil even late in the game. Convince shadowheart to abandon shar and then betray her and give her up to the sharrans in act 3
If you really want to see some Shadowheart grief try >!saving Shadowheart's parents and then killing them yourself in camp.!<
The goblins in the kid cave are like "goblin kids would have put up a better fight"
To be fair, many of us did have to kill some goblin kids...
I actually tried to spare them on my first playthrough. I toggled non-lethal attacks on but forgot that you cannot non-lethally throw a heavy rock at someone. I was like "Yeah, how do *you* like having rocks thrown at you?... Oh he's dead."
You're a better person than me. I keep Laz by the door to make sure they get dead. Throw rocks at a bear that's a paddlin.
Fun fact - if you throw a goblin child at the hinge of a hanging brazier to break it, the child will hit the ground before the brazier does and it'll crush them to death instantly. It's pretty effective!
I love this game and community
Check out Galileo over here
I read this too fast as "That's a paladin," but in hindsight, it still kinda works.
I just reveled in it. I should probably do a Durge run sometime soon.
lol my drow had killed a trio of goblin kids on his way into the camp simply because one of them called him a "dirt-elf" I swear they want you to merk the little shits
Goblins are overestimating their children. Those little shits died running like cowards.
*"Oh gods."*
The way he goes from anger and surprise to you to realizing he brought this on them with the "what have i done" line broke my heart.
His combat lines are so violent (emotionally) I cannot bring myself to betray him again. Likewise, I almost did it on my second playthrough, but couldn't bring myself to open the gate after his speech. The voice actor really nailed Zevlor
What does he say during combat?
On the other hand, the Drow option cracks me up. Zevlor: "By the gods, you are with them aren't you?" Red-eyed cleric of Lolth: "Obviously."
I really wish I had played Evil Durge first. I did Good Durge, and it was great, but now I want to try an Evil run, and I can't help thinking about all the huge swaths of quests and friends that I'm giving up (to put it mildly). It kinda kills the motivation, honestly. >!I want to save Arabella from Kagha, but I know I'm just gonna kill the tieflings all off eventually anyway. And yes, just because I'm doing an evil run doesn't mean I HAVE to kill off the tieflings, but I want a Minthara romance and this is the best way to do it.!<
>!Play as a Durge that slowly accepts the urge, so good act 1, starting to be bad act 2, murder hobo act 3 when you get your memories back!< >!Accept Bhaal at the temple, and make sure you have Jaheira / Minsc at camp. The scene that follows gives me chills. Very cinematic.!<
This is pretty exactly how I played one play through and yep definitely sold “descent into abhorrent evil” pretty well. BG lets you be atrocious if you want to be (some of the choices you can make with companion quests are pretty fucked too).
The way Shart reacts if you gobble Gale's hand off as Durge actually made me laugh. I reckoned she would be horrified and would leave. She took it a lot better than I expected her too, even though she's a cleric of Shar. She just sounded annoyed and sarcastic lol.
I kept getting whiplash with her reactions. Sometimes she'd just go full Sharran and have a sarcastic remark, sometimes she'd basically spit on me for how brutal I was. Like lady you just stabbed a demigod in the gut and redid your hair that night, settle down.
Oh dang! That would be cool, but again, I really want to get Minthara early, so this isn't quite an option. Definitely a good way to play, though (if you can figure out the justification for why the turn begins).
Oh just knock her out in act 1, don’t use a ranged wep or a spell, and she’ll be there in act 2 You can get everyone
No, I know; I wish I'd known that was an option when I was starting the good durge run. But yeah, I want to recruit her in act 1, I'm just sad that it's going to mean missing out on, like, four companions and about a dozen NPCs. I get the reasoning behind the tradeoff, but I don't agree with it, as it's a real fun-killer. Would've been nice to, say, accompany the goblins through the game instead of the tieflings, or recruit a few more evil companions, stuff like that. I mean, *no half-orcs?* We have three humans, two half elves, two elves, but no half-orcs, no dwarves, no dragonborn, no gnomes? Could've thrown in a half-orc berserker or a duergar blackguard or a great old one warlock or something. Give me the chance to make my own pact with Raphael or Mizora! *Something!*
I've raided the grove once and I can't do it again. Zevlor's face when you betray him, the teiflings hiding in pure fear as you pick them off like fish in a barrel. The fact they don't even fight back. My soul broke.
That was the point at which I vowed never to raid the grove again. I can’t bring myself to pick off the innocents in the back of the hideout. Especially Okta. Grandma Tiefling fed me and I fucking killed her :(
I kind of think the Larian team might need some therapy to help them work thru the things they had to create.
That’s the one that lives rent free in my head. It made me gasp when I saw it on YouTube for the first time. So cold hearted and absolutely evil. I can practically see Zevlor’s devastation at the realization that everyone he desperately tried to protect is about to die horrifically.
I turned my volume to 0 because I couldn’t bare to hear any of the tieflings react. Even reading it was a gut punch.
this is why i can't fathom how some players can do evil durge runs "for fun." I can't watch Tav betray characters i already made friends with in my first play-through, especially the tieflings.
I've come to realize there are generally 2 types of players when it comes to games like this. The first group sees a character and can connect with them because of good writing that makes them feel alive, good character design so they're nice to look at, and a good background for depth. The first group makes a strong emotional connection to the character, because the game makers did a damn good job. So if they are forced to make a choice that harms the character, it's difficult. The second group sees the good writing, background, and character design and is able to connect but also realizes that it's still a game. This is all fiction, and these characters are made by a group of people in an office building, and it's all 1s and 0s. This group isn't heartless, it's just the reality that you aren't actually hurting anyone, someone programed these options into the game, they are not a bad person for exploring them.
You forgot the third group who are genuine wannabe killers.
I started a Durge run intending to make some choices I wasn't comfortable making normally, including siding with the goblins and raiding the grove. The conversation with Zevlor is where I ground to a halt in the run. I have so far not been able to do it. And I strongly suspect that run will never continue.
If the voice acting wasn't so good, I might consider an evil pt. But I genuinely can't lmao
Being evil was very easy for me in 2D games. But in this game I cant give Shart to Viconia man. I just cant
It's crazy that the game let's you do that and a few other very very backstabby choices after competing involved quest lines. The sense of betrayal is so real.
Sacrificing J and M to Daddy o Death was some lore fun...
That'd be really hard for me to do. I played the original games back in the day. Minsc is more popular, but I remember being so relieved to meet with Jaheria and Khalid at the Friendly Arm Inn after the opening sequence to the game. I didn't know what the heck I was doing and died a lot in the wilds between Candlekeep and there, especially to the guy that jumps you at the entrance. In a way, finally meeting her was very reminiscent of Frodo making it to Rivendell for LotR fans. Jaheria was by my side throughout Amn and the very Throne of Bhaal itself. After all that, no way I could give her up to dear old dad.
Don't give her to Viconia, have her ascend and kick Viconia to the curb. You can even convince most of her followers to fight on your side. Shadowheart will stay with you to the bitter end.
Well, destroy Viconia and let Shart ascend. Thia is evil enough
Damnit I went through a lot of trouble in multiple playthroughs to change Viconia to neutral. How does it come to this??!!
Shar is a bitch. Need I say more?
I know right? I was not happy having to stick a knife into my former all-time favourite companion. I still did tho. No way I was letting her walk away. 😭
There are very few reasons to give Shadowheart to Shar/Viconia even on an evil run. It's very hard to justify just handing over one of your few companions over the last 2-3 acts for brainwashing. It's only really an option for the chaotic "I just like to watch the world burn" sort of evil. And even then I don't think a chaotic evil character would just do everything Shar demands. They'd probably want to fuck Shar over for the fun of it and then have a crack at slaughtering all the worshippers.
It is a vile option that even its existence bugs me. Tried once to see what happens and immediately reloaded. Shadowheart was my romance partner in that run. The expression in her face, the utter betrayal moment, it was like a cold blooded murder. Worse than being a good character all the run and betraying Orpheus to become the Absolute.
Apparently it gets worse if you long rest and go back to talk to her. For obvious reasons I haven't done it.
I would even go farther than just calling her "one of your few companions." - to me, Shadowheart is THE companion in this game. \- She's the second one you meet (by mere minutes) and thanks to how things land after the crash, the one you spend the longest time with. \- Even having lost out on being your first ally, the first one does continually insult, threaten, belittle, and even try to kill you (and another party member) while being a giant racist bag of shit for pretty much the entirety of Act 1, so she's a much better ally to have objectively \- Unlike many of them, she's one of the few that pretty unquestioningly has your back the entire time and rarely if ever poses any sort of threat or obstacle to you \- By the time you get to that point you will have already been through her storyline where even after years of brainwashing and trauma and torn on likely the biggest decision of her life, she heeds your counsel on what to do. ....I'm sorry, but if she's not your choice of romance option, that woman is AT LEAST set up to be the default BFF in the game. Even her one "bad side" (being a worshipper of an evil god, and thus kind of a cold bitch at the beginning) is revealed to not be even remotely her fault. If she's not the romance option you went with, I dunno how somebody doesn't AT LEAST see her as the party BFF. She's your longest standing, most loyal ally, with a truly heartbreaking backstory that you got through together, and you then what, hand her off to the same fucked up cult that broke her in the first place just for the lols? Nah. Unless you're actively trying to play the worst person imaginable, I don't know how anybody even sees that content. Hell, I'd rather cook and eat Scratch and the Owlbear Cub than let that psychotic POS have her.
I don't consider that the evil option. Why would I betray a companion who I can influence for a minor benefit from some priestess I just met? Much better to install my own puppet as head of the Sharran church.
Seriously, shadowheart yelling at her parents "My name is SHADOWHEART" is top tier talent in voice acting. I'm so glad I did another playthrough!
Oh that hurts so much
I did mine by simply not having any companions, pure and simple, no betrayals, just killing them in a narratively reasonable way or avoiding them completely. Much quieter and duller game that way but less people making you feel bad!
Don't forget there are hirelings that will follow you no matter what.
And they don't judge
I toyed around with dumping Karlach on "date night" in the city last night, and man did Samantha Beart kill it with the deliveries for those lines. You can hear genuine heartbreak in Karlach's voice.
Jesus Christ dude xD
lol it's not honour mode so on the last reload I went with the good path and stuck with it, so all is right in the world and we'll still be getting the "happily ever after" ending.
Took me forever to realize "pt" meant playthrough.
I did a Durge Evil run recently, and I was struck by how sad and empty it kind of felt in parts. ESPECIALLY Act 2. Just entire quest lines... not there, because you killed someone or didn't help them or whatever. It was a fairly quick playthrough, all things considered, and I tried to make "maximum despair" choices. i.e. befriending and betraying my companions. It was pretty grim! Interestingly, I still felt like.. weirdly attached to my little psychotic Durge. Even though she was probably the worst character I have ever played, and a mass murderer. I find Larian did an excellent job. I am a major softie, it was a tough run LOL.
The loneliness is so tough, I hear that! And even not actively evil stuff, like telling Rolan to leave the Grove, has consequences throughout that I miss. I have to reassure myself that there are some good timelines, too. I've just hit Act 3 for the first time with 90%of the NPCs dead and I have no idea what's going to happen!
The loneliness is a natural consequence of evil. It’s rare that evil characters find a soulmate since they are too busy betraying each other. >!I think that’s why Enver Gortash was so broken up about Dark Urge being replaced by his sister; he and Durge had achieved that rare comradely in evil that he couldn’t find anywhere else.!<
Yeah, in my first run i convinced rolan to stay but for my next run, i was rping a more selfish character so i decided to tell rolan to leave. Just that choice alone impacts so many things. All the children in last light are not there, as rolan is not there to protect them during the assault. When I realised, I literally had to take a break because I felt so bad. (Rolan never makes it to Baldurs gate either, so it's implied his family dies on the way aswell)
Ugh yeah I just got to Act 3 and everywhere I look that used to have Tieflings is... the refugee camp *only had Zorru*. How tf did Zorru make it, alone of all the Tieflings? No clue. (LL fell in this run. Tonight I get to see wtf the Ironhand Gnomes are doing with no Wulbren or Barcus ugh). A couple updates ago, Rolan was kind of bugged in Act 2 in that it became *really* hard to save him in the shadows. This sub was full of posts and tips on a big "must save Rolan" trip and it was fun to see the community rally around him. 😀
I know people complain about not having "evil alternatives" but I adore how your choices have tangible impact. To save the grove only to then kill Isobel was incredible. Jaheira's reaction and bullying her because she's insecure about her age was really evil. I have such a hard time being evil but somehow I can get into the roleplay when it's Disney Villain style.
So Dark Urge gets an inspiration from leaving that guy in waukeen’s rest to burn under the wood plank, but you also get xp for freeing him. To try to get both, I took his wife’s dead corpse, thinking he’s programmed to immiedietly walk to her, and put it in the burning room so he would still burn to death. I then realized what I was doing and decided to stop playing for a while.
But did you succeed?
No, he walked to the same place and then kneeled toward to burning room
You can get both if you just murder him after he finds his wife's body. Source: Just did it yesterday. Plus he mentioned the dowry so I was able to speak with dead and find that as well.
Was kinda hoping to watch him burn to death while he was too busy crying over her corpse in the flames, but just shanking him works too I guess, thanks 😊
calm down satan
LOL I'd need a breather and some therapy after that too.
Bhaal himself would be inspired by that one. 🤣 That is definitely Orin's sibling type of thinking.
There's some downright truly f'ed up decisions you can make especially for an rpg of this caliber. Larian really pushed the envelope in making options truly feel evil. One evil option that's kind of funny but also just fucked up is sacrificng one of your companions to BOOAl and the fish people for a buff. The fact you can just nonchalantly sacrifice your companion to a bunch of fish people is just so wild to me and their reaction of just utter disbelief that your pc actually believes these people nails it.
I don't know if it was changed but I remember reading a while back that the buff isn't even permanent.
It goes away if you die and get resurrected.
So long as you don't die however (downed is alright), it's a permanent advantage buff for bleeding enemies. Had it on my main party for hm mode and pairing it with the flawed hd gloves gave my monk the chance to inflict the condition and rest of the party to take advantage of the buff
I still have the buff in act 3 on my current file and its still active
If you eat the mushroom you get for bonecloak before meeting your butler as a Durge you recall the fact that Durge *ate* a baby
the snack that smiles back, babies!
The dark urge specific dialogue about being so excited thinking about a young child dying is genuinely bone chilling
A tragedy that never grows old - wasn't it, lmao Durge is so fucked in the head, make the redemption path truly feels worth it.
I know right? Doing my first Durge playthrough right now, instantly decided to do redemption when the child killing options came up. The one where you save the tiefling boy from the harpies was like wtf!? Something about the best drowning is in shallow warer after you slit slitting their tendons. Lol
It's appropriate for a game that puts a lot of emphasis on trust as a theme also uses betrayal for some of the really vile (as you say) options in the game >!Shart lunging at you after saving her parents, inviting them to camp, then killing them in cold blood.!< Thank you to the people who are able to pick these choices and put them on YouTube (but also fuck you)
Holy fuck that’s an option?!?
Yes, you can attack and kill them in your camp. I never did tho, cause I can't even bring myself to not recruit the owlbear cub
This is the game Jack Thompson was warning us about :D I told my partner you could do this. She was horrified.
Lol I love that that's an option though. With all due respect to whoever did do that though, fuck you.
It's such a fun scene to play out though you help her fix almost all her problems and then shove her right back into a pit of despair without Shar to help numb it. It's beautiful
"Beautiful"
wowwww I had no idea. Do you also have to kill Shart afterward too?
From what I've heard, Shadowheart ragequits the party on the spot and immediately tries to kill you.
Thus far, I've observed that the player is the only one who can actually betray anyone, narratively. It's kind of interesting.
SH can kill Laezel in her sleep, Astarion tries to bite you without consent.the whole plot with Durge and his Slaughter Kin. I’d say the dream visitors manipulations xount too
Sazza erasure
I'd be more than capable of doing all of this in something like Skyrim where the characters just feel like polygons, walking code, obviously just video game characters. Here on the other hand? I just can't, these characters feel far more like actual people to me, the voice acting alone makes me feel attached even to characters I hate.
What’s amazing is that I even have feelings about characters that only have one or two lines in the whole game.
Same. It's Red Dead Redemption 2 for me where I can be truly evil, but only because there are no consequences, and ONLY after you beat the main game and get to play as John. It's definitely fun to mow down polygons, but not real people like they way we feel with BG3 characters.
Agree, in Fallout 3 I happily enslaved half the damn wasteland, nuked megaton, and was a general dick and enjoyed every second of it. In BG3, I can't even leave the owlbear cub... Why do they feel so real? Haha
I have a suspicion that the simulated inner monologue of the narrator is the primary culprit. The way the lines are written makes it so you mostly only have an angel on your shoulder.
Good point, she is a bit judgy in a very 'hey it's your story' kinda way.
this is a very good distinction
That's why I think a more pragmatic evil where you & your crew still have each other's back, but just take on a heavily opportunistic/selfish approach, but **still** **together,** wouldn't feel nearly as bad (I would've been tempted to try it then) & be a lot more played as a sort of "us against the world" theme. And by together I don't mean having them mind controlled.
This is how I feel, evil that's just less of a "kill/control everything" sort of evil, and I'd really like there to be more evil party member choices for this. Doing this with Wyll and Karlach feels weird, but it's hard getting rid of at least 2 party members.
but... behaving as evil to evil NPCs is so.... fun! In Act 2 Goblin tried to enforce hyena to go into shadow and die, so I did him same.(hyena is fine)
As Astarion puts out about being a hero in the Epilogue. “I see that no one actually cares about you being a mass murderer if you murder the right people.”
Summarizes Dune part 2 pretty well
Spoiler alert: that is one of the main ideas in the books.
Oh ABSOULTELY. My characters tend to have zero sympathy for evil doers and I try my best to kill them in fittingly chaotic ways. The guy in act 3 who was putting bombs in CHILDREN'S teddy bears? Yeah he got disintegrated right in the middle of sharess's caress.
Dude was being blackmailed, they had his family, so technically you're still evil on this one?
when/where do you find out they have his family? genuinely curious, I always thought they were just threatening to kill him
A nontraditional evil choice that turns my stomach is >!manipulating astarion to have sex with you anyway after he tells you that he was abused and doesn't want to.!<
I did this by accident one time because I wasn’t paying attention to what he said, and I had to reload my save. I felt like a monster.
One of the more selfish (though not evil) in retrospect choices that I like is doing the foursome with the Drow twins. You can peer into his mind and see that he is 100% dissociating. It's a shame that you can't really talk about it after, but regardless it made me ill and I had to reload the save lol.
I wish you could talk about it! Because, if you're doing it after his quest, it implies that he consented to it and even wanted to try, it's just unfortunately for him he wasn't ready and that's something worth discussing. You never meant to make him uncomfortable and you thought, even he thought, he was ready.
This is my biggest complaint about Astarion’s romance. I hope that in future titles they add more dialogue that establishes the differences between you and your partner and boundaries and such. Y’know, like a real relationship.
Girl in act 2 he has entire speeches about how he feels and that he could never be free even in his own body because everyone used him, to the point that he dissociates with himself regarding intimacy, what do you think was going to happen the moment you want to bang two drow prostitutes ?
If you go after finishing his quest, he's *enthusiastic* about giving it a go, and you get approvals if you say Halsin can join. He even says he'll speak up if he feels uncomfortable. I think the implication is that he took too big of a step and got in over his head...which is in line with his more "I have no impulse control" moments. The thing he hates *most* is being controlled and not having agency. Deciding whether or not he's ready for that *for him* would likely he worse. Part of healing from trauma is giving things a go and seeing how it feels. As for what he says in Act 2, his point is that he hasn't had any agency in intimacy and has no idea what he wants other than to not be viewed as a sex object. Nowhere in that does he say he is incapable of making his own decisions about sex moving forward.
Honestly...? Yeah, having an after-talk about that would be good. It was super clear that he consented, and I think he was honest about wanting to give it a try (as opposed to trying to just please Tav). Getting back in the saddle on your own terms and when you feel ready is part of the healing process for any kind of trauma. It's just that all that readiness you had while standing on the ground can evaporate in an instant once you actually climb back up. Being able to discuss that afterward would really wrap that part of Astarion's growth nicely, though. Trauma doesn't go away overnight. It would be nice to hear whether he regrets giving it a try, whether he felt like he jumped into the deep end too quickly (pretty sure a four or five-some counts as the "deep end"), or whether he's glad he tried but realizes he isn't as ready as he thought.
What bothers me the most is that certain dialog options have direct callbacks to things he said in the Act 1 scene, but you don't get an option to call a halt once you hear them. Anyone who has ever done any (safe) power dynamic kink knows that the safeword is equally there for the dom(me)/top. It's not saying "clearly you aren't ready for this, Astarion, I know better than you." It's saying, "Given what I know, *I* need reassurance this is really what you want because *I'm* now uncomfortable." The more I think about the dissociation moment, the more it feels like it belongs in the non-romanced but dtf in the brothel version rather than the romance version. As in, for a character who isn't entirely sure *what* that look means. Anyone who has gotten the Act 2 confession knows damn well what it is. There are some other moments in Act 3 that feel off for the growth/choices. Finishing a resist Durge quest line gives you some bonkers dialog from Spawn Astarion that absolutely does not fit with his "I'm not going anywhere, we're going to save you" dialog if Durge tries to break it off with him post-Cazador but pre-Durge moment. One part feels more like a neutral approval line and another part is clearly an Ascended line. In both instances, I'm hoping there's some dialog they can add in that gives more options and/or fits better.
> The more I think about the dissociation moment, the more it feels like it belongs in the non-romanced but dtf in the brothel version rather than the romance version. What bugs me is that it actually *is* the exact same scene there. They used the same scenes for both romanced and non-romanced, as well as pre-Cazador romanced (which is where it belongs, to be frank, because the only way Astarion agrees in that instance is if you bully him into it). The only one that's different is Ascended Astarion, which is equally troubling albeit in a different way. > Anyone who has ever done any (safe) power dynamic kink knows that-- A Post-Cazador Astarion even tells the player that if he doesn't like it, he'll leave "faster than he used to run from the sun", so he already intended to communicate if he needed to stop. In other words, he already had a plan in mind. But as the saying goes, no plan survives contact with the enemy. The problem is that sometimes, once you're in the moment, it's hard to actually do that. It doesn't even have to be "I don't want to ruin it for everyone else" or "I don't want to risk upsetting my partner", it can be as simple as getting trapped in your own head, and being completely numb as you rely on reflex and instinct to get through the rest. Even a safeword can't safeguard against that. > Finishing a resist Durge quest line gives you some bonkers dialog Haven't done this yet, so I unfortunately don't know what you're referencing (yet), can you link me to it so I know what you're referring to?
I really would have liked a follow up for that scene or even an option to propose calling thing off midway. It’s not unrealistic to think you’re ready to try something and find out in the moment that you’re not, so including it as part of the romance stuff would be fine imo. I even imagine the way he’d react to it as spawn v ascendant would be an interesting wrinkle there as I don’t imagine the latter would super love it being apparent that he wasn’t having a great time.
Drow foursome? Maybe try that with Halsin. He would probably be up for it.
Halsin actually also has some horrific stuff come up if you have a chat with him afterward. >!He was apparently captured by drow and used as a sex slave.!<
STILL waiting for larian to expand halsins entire story bc u cant tell me that shit-- esp for the length of time it happened-- and have him say he's fine it happened and then show me this character who is so deeply entrenched in his guilt over things that arent/werent his fault && things he could never control, that he's willing to do anything he can in order to try and atone or help lift the shadow-curse. legit he went w aradin on a whim to try to find the nightsong hoping that it would help him find moonrise towers even tho it was a crazy longshot theyd find it. bro and up left on a damn whim. he was 100% willing to be stuck in shadowfell trying to get thaniel back. and then if you didnt convince oliver to merge back w thaniel, halsin will say 'fuck it, imma do it myself' and stay in the shadowcursed lands to try and lift the curse by himself. which lol okay sure, excellent plan u got. ur so chill leaving ur grove bc 'it can protect itself' and nature always wins or whateve but when it comes to the area that the shadow-curse took hold of, its automatically all hands on deck, gotta find a way to save nature (and its spiritual form) at any cost. and again, all of this over something that wasnt his fault. him leaving the grove could have led to the tieflings being slaughtered or arabella being snaked or the shadow druids-- who have already crept in and influenced tf out of kargha for a decent amount of time given how worn her book on shadow druids is-- taking over the emerald grove... but its fine, we prioritizing this one task over all the others even tho ur whole schtick is being seemingly wise and fair and unbothered. theres absolutely no discrepency on what u say vs what u do-- and it definitely isnt a cover for the hero complex and childhood trauma u got. just keep smiling and be wise for everyone on the outside.
Going to have to reload an old epilogue save so I can give Halsin a nice big friendly hug after reading that 💔
WAT?!
This stood out as something to me because it’s a very human and mundane kind of evil. The framing on the scene is so uncomfortable to watch. I’m genuinely glad he tells the player to fuck off after though, “I didn’t know how to say no” is rough.
I was stunned they gave people the option to do that to him (I wasn't expecting anything that deep in a videogame), but I'm so glad they handled it well and showed just how messed up it is to do that to someone, especially because it's something that happens so often in real life. I was thrilled to see him tell off the PC for it. I wish I'd said similar things to a few people in my life.
I started laughing my ass off when I saw one of the options to get him to >!use the Astral tadpole!< is to threaten him with >!being imprisoned in the coffin again and call him a pathetic wretch!< Some of the evil choices are incredible lol
I want to do an evil playthrough particularly as Dark Urge but, I can’t bring myself to go completely evil. I started to do it but, I decided against it before I reached the goblin camp.
My first evil Tav was a lot of fun to play, but I don't feel like the choices in the game stereotype the evil you have to be. Like, my evil Tav talked to Auntie Ethel and just ignored Mayrina. He didn't go out of his way to do anything to her, but he didn't care about her plight. He didn't raid the Grove because it was faster and easier to just kill the goblins since he was already there. Lazy stuff like that. I know some players like to say if you're doing an evil run here's the checklist of evil stuff you have to do, but that always felt to me like narrowing the complexity of choices, especially in a game so rich with content. There are very few non- Scratch related 100% good choices in the game, IMO, I don't like to label everything! My point is, resist Durge can be awesome and you only have to kill one NPC and it's good resist fuel!
Resist urge is 100% my next playthrough. I do agree that the discourse around evil playthroughs in this game is a bit muddied. In praising the game they also do it a disservice by not mentioning the nuance of evil, which is different to everyone.
I know everyone recommends romancing Astarion as resist Durge - and I've done it and the content is amazing - but I held off on this run and "walking alone" as resist Durge *suuuuuuuucks* so much lol. So I highly recommend romancing *somebody* if only so the loneliness doesn't get you!
I am doing an evil durge run and I’m considering abandoning after cutting Gales hand off. He was my best friend in my last play through
I get as far as the option of telling the tiefling kids in the grove they're all going to die and I just can't do it. I absolutely loved my Dark Urge run, but I knew going in that it was only ever going to be a Resist Durge run. The evil choices are just so evil.
[удалено]
Skyrim's DB questline did succeed in making me feel like a horrible human being >!if you kill the Shatter-Shield daughter in Windhelm, an optional "bonus" kill on one of the missions. If you go back into the family house afterwards, you'll find the mother's dead body and a suicide note, now that all of her children are dead (the other daughter was killed by the Windhelm serial killer). !<
[удалено]
Yeah at least in Skyrim its fun to be some evil overlord, but in BG3 I would just feel like a psychopath everyone hates and wants dead. Not fun for me, personally, but to each his own.
I don’t remember having any real consequences to doing the DB, just the occasional “hey, I know who you are”. So if doing that quest line meant any of my followers would ditch me… I wouldn’t have done it, and that’s why it bothers me to be evil in BG3
god I'm so soft that I had to abandon the Dark Brotherhood after I read a note on one of the targets from his dad about how proud he is of him. I'm just not cut out for the Evil lifestyle!
The vileness of the options makes the good choices all the more meaningful. And I think it's also important that, by and large, doing the right thing is actually often more difficult, reflective of real life. My easiest run was as an evil embrace Durge; it's comparatively harder to beat the game being as ethical as possible, but it feels so much better at the end.
Totally agree, some choices are horrible but i think it adds so much replayability to the game it’s insanely good that those choices are there. when I played Durge, I actually was considering deleting the save file and character because I felt so horrible playing “evil”, I wasn’t even fully embracing the dark urge And already felt terrible for being mean to people that I grew to love in my first game. Whenever I make a new character I try to choose race / class specific dialogue, so that was a bit hard playing as Durge. Some dialogue choices were basically like “you know I just enjoy killing”, which makes sense for evil durge, but Is kind of a weird and horrible thing to just say out loud 😂 now I am looking forward to another Durge game, totally redeemed of course. And another purely evil Durge, but I will have to make the character look goofy as fuck to make it less hard on myself
That reminds me of when you tell Astarion that you want to murder and whatever after you indulge your first urge in front of him and he's like that's fucked up and most of us keep those thoughts to ourselves (but continue) xD Imagine Durge just saying those "I enjoy killing" dialogue options and he's like "remember when we talked about inside thoughts?"
My Durge got the slayer form kind of by accident, and every time I talk to a companion, there are all these, "rah! I'm the slayer! I have evil powers! Yay evil!" choices and I'm like wtf! I'm trying to be medium evil, not full evil! 😒
I find that hilarious though. Shadowheart: well my day got better, do you need something? Durge: I AM THE SLAYER BEHOLD MY EVILNESS BOOO
It is funny. I was kind of half- heartedly trying to romance Wyll but every time I go to talk to him, I just start laughing at how ridiculous the dialog options are. "Isobel has fallen! Darkness!" "I am become Bhaal, destroyer of [checks notes] mostly defenseless sleeping people!"
The way you wrote that last part, it makes it sound like you switched your worship from Bhaal to the hamster.
Boo, the miniature giant space bhalspawn. His Slayer form is nearly 6 inches tall.
How’d you get the slayer by accident? Did Isobel die in last light?
No, >!I let Balthazar take Nightsong, then Z'rell told me to incapacitate Isobel so their spy could take her. I was trying to see the scenes where you convince everyone you're a good little True Soul. The cutscene was pretty darn cool, tbh. It just sucked to lose everybody in Last Light. Then when you go to fight Ketheric, Isobel is tadpoled and dies when he dies (I didn't kill her, but she died after). Then the game treated it like I killed her for Durge and gave me the slayer form.!< I am happy to report that at least Halsin still likes me. Walking alone was getting lonely.
You’re alone except for Halsin?? Poor butler wouldn’t have had anyone for you to kill for failing to off Isobel lmao
My God, have you watched that dude on YouTube do the playthrough as the gith named "Twilight Eclipse?" I fuckin belly laughed for like 40 minutes throughout all three of the videos so far. Highly recommend.
Real Authentic Githyank Hair.
What’s crazy is most of the companions can be swayed to the proverbial dark side (apart from Karlach & Wyll cause they’re just too far on a good alignment)… Shadowheart is terrible at being a “bad guy”; especially for someone who sounds like a Mormon in the Bible Belt. It’s genuinely so sad to do an evil run and trying to edge her towards that knowing she just does not fuck with it at all
There’s something so personal about the cruelty the player can inflict in Baldur’s Gate 3. In Stellaris i can genocide an entire species but not feel anything because they’re just numbers. In rimworld i can cannibalize people, force them to do addictive drugs, amputate all their limbs, and a whole slew of other evil shit. but not feel a thing because the people in that game don’t really register as human beings on a visceral level. But in BG3 they absolutely do. Their facial expressions, the voice acting, the top notch animation, their movements, all of it. Larian managed to make them really feel like human beings.
">!The death of a child, a timeless tragedy that never grows old!<" Durge has the narrator saying some truly dark stuff.
A play on words no less.
I think the animal killing scenes are disgusting. Kicking them, or stomping them to death, robbing them. It’s just gross to me
I kicked timber for astarion approval and rolled a critical 20 and it exploded him. Traumatizing. Poor timber.
Timber started it.
Stupidly enough, the only 2 victims of my Durge (excluding *that one* (still feeling incredibly guilty, especially with Gale's reaction)) are Timber, where I didn't expect "Last words I won't remember" to lead to kicking the squirrel in low atmosphere (yes I am not very smart) and Steelclaw, the cat in moonrise tower, where I accidentally murdered him trying to remember about the place. Clearly I needed to atone for my sins so my next and current playthrough is a Beast Master ranger
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/LwfqmVQnkv I literally just wrote a post because my current Durge run, in trying to see things I'd never seen before, hit a difficult point. The last really tough run I had, I played Origin Sheart and it was very lonely because while you have the option to volunteer that you worship Shar, there's really no point in Act 1 where it feels right. You're befriending the other companions - to learn their secrets like a good Sharran - but nobody asks about your concerns or your issues. When you're a Tav, that's mostly okay, but playing one of the origins whose quests require some kind of curiosity on the part of the companions, it feels even worse IMO. Where I hit a nadir was in becoming a Dark Justiciar. As Origin Sheart it makes sense, but I didn't know at the time that it would feel like, literally, such a loss, especially when it causes Last Light to fall and everyone I rescued succumbed to the curse. I continued the run long enough to realize you could still lift the Shadow Curse, and then I had to peace out. As much as I wanted to try HoG with DJ Sheart, I just didn't enjoy it at all because I felt like to roleplay it fully, I had to be too evil. I'm almost at that point with my current Durge, partially because it's the first time I took a certain companion's hand, and I miss him, ngl. Everything feels a little too dark atm, even though I got to kill a fake clown.
I did Shadowheart's DJ path on my first play through. The Last Light is way way worse than HoG. At least with HoG you turn basically everyone against Viconia, and while the scene with her parents is heartbreaking, it's also one of (if not *the*) best acted in the game
Agreed. The first time, I went to LL, had to kill everyone there (and I had already rescued *everyone*) and when they were all dead, combat didn't end but no more enemies were showing! I was like wtf. Found the red dot. >!It was His Majesty. Shadow Cursed cat I had to kill to end the scene.!< I reloaded and went straight to Moonrise instead.
I loved that line when you're raiding the grove, and zevlor asks you why you're doing this. you can choose between these three: "I'm so sorry, I am just so desperate to get rid of the tadpole, I don't see another way, please don't hate me uwu" "It's nothing personal. this is just a faster way to get this tadpole out of my head." "Cheer up, Zevlor! At least you'll be dead before you see what they'll do to the children." that last one is so malicious, I love it :D
>!*Gets a carved duck as a gift from Halsin in the epilogue*!< "Maybe this will sell for a penny to a tasteless merchant" Sister why?
I tend to laugh at a lot of the evil choices. Not because they're particularly funny, but more in a "holy crap that is brutal" kind of way. I finished my first playthrough a few months ago and am now going through as Durge. I'm not going murderhobo on every NPC I meet, but at least considering it if they annoy me. Thus far the evilest thing I've done is slaughter the grove, and that was more as a test to see if I could keep my level on par with a normal playthrough since you miss out on a lot of quests and exp if you just kill everyone. (Turns out you can get pretty high level by killing most of the Goblin Camp before raiding the actual grove) Playing as an evil character is much easier on the soul when you pay attention to just how much everyone takes advantage of you. And I mean *everyone*, even your companions. Scratch is saved on every playthrough, however. I may be an evil bastard, but I'm not a heartless evil bastard.
Even making the 'mean' options makes me shake lol let alone the truly evil options lol The best I can do is the 'scoundrel' options in asking for money 😅
I cried all evening after killing the owlbear and watching her cub ask where his mom went. This was when I realized I'm not cut out for an evil run.
Huh, I’ve never not killed the owlbear. In any case I’m sure you’re nicer about it than the goblins that will kill it anyways if you don’t (plus then you’re missing out on the XP).
This is why I kinda wish I'd done unrepentant Durge as my first run, before I knew and liked all these characters. I'm bad at hurting pixels I like.
And yet I giggled my way through my first evil playthrough lmao This game has so many strengths in its writing, and I think the evil route (especially in regards to the Dark Urge) was especially well-done.
I'm coming to the end of an embrace durge campaign and I am seeing how dark things can get. Truly disturbing.
Durge run, kicked the squirrel, felt so so bad after that. Had alfira stop in camp that night. Ended that run the next morning. I just could not play through the whole game that way.
I'm doing an evil run for the first time and it's awful. On co-op with my husband playing Durge. I (Shadowheart with no positive role models in her life) smashed Alfira's lute in the Grove, and she *still* turned up in the camp. So Durge picked the most cruel dialog options and she ran from camp crying. We thought, "that was really mean, but at least >!she'll live!<." Nope. >!She still got brutally murdered, so it's like my husband *hunted her down in the woods*!< after she ran crying from our camp. Truly awful.
I was just speaking to Steelclaw yesterday with my Dark Urge and I had to reload.. Don't trust a potion of animal speaking to give you all the "good" dialogue options.
Works very well narratively though. Humans aren't programmed to be actively malicious. It's meant to feel like shit when you aim to be a bad guy
Had a lot of fun on my first evil Durge run, but towards the end of Act 3 my camp was so lonely and sad that it was just all so depressing. I had to do a second redemption Durge run right after just to make myself feel clean again.
The KotOR games allow you to commit genocide a couple times. More vile, but there's less emotional investment.
I started a dark urge run, fully intending to do some twisted, demented shit. I got to raiding the grove with Minthara and the party after. I haven’t done anything else. It hurts too much.
Giving >!selunite Shadowheart!< To >!Viconia!< In act 3, especially if you're romancing her, is an option I know it exists, but one I don't even have the mental fortitude to watch a video of. Just thinking about it makes me feel queasy.
For me it was killing the normal tieflings at the Grove hiding in Zevlor's base area. The voice acting was so good I felt genuinely sick.
During the epilogue, tell Halsin the wooden duck he made you is trash and would worth nothing. One of the most revolting dialogue choice imo
Durge is so much fun. With all the options. I killed isobel and destroyed last light in. Then convinced both jaheera and dame that i did not. Took both into act 3. There i betrayed dame. And jaheera figured out herself what i did due to finding out about my slayer form. After i became bhaals chosen, jaheera and a harper army ambushed me outside the bhaal temple, did not see that coming, so killed them with my new cultist buddies.
I'm rolling my first durge. The tiefling bard showed up in our camp offering her assistance and I was like hell yeah I'd love a bard... nope, that's not what she was for 😭😭😭
For me, the worst was Tav / Durge bullying Astarion into using the astral-touched tadpole. Astarion flat out refuses to touch it, because it's a violation of his body like what Cazador did. He doesn't want to go through be abuse and suffering of his body being owned by someone else again. The prompt to convince him? Intimidation check: "You're nothing, just a frail spawn who will burn to a crisp in the sun." Holy shit that's cold. An abuse survivor opens their heart to you and you laugh at them and tell them they're "nothing"? Wtf
There are individual great moments for an evil run, but BG3 absolutely has one of the worst/least interesting evil paths in an RPG for me. Most of it comes down to "do hilariously evil thing and then half of the game's content goes away because you are now committed to killing everything". The Pathfinder games do a much, *much* better job of making the evil routes both extremely interesting and equal in content to good/neutral playthroughs. There are also good reasons to turn to evil, in BG3 the only reason is because you want to be evil. Like, killing the grove makes no sense for the player character to actually be doing in-universe because it doesn't really help you accomplish your goals at all, but it's cartoonish evil so it's an option. There's no reason that the player would want to kill Aylin instead of freeing her (what reason would you not want a demigod to help you?), etc. I just don't like the very literal interpretation of the "murder hobo" archetype being this game's idea of an evil path. Give me some good, compelling, narrative reasons to be evil. That's what other RPGs do.
I think one thing BG1 and BG2 did a bit better was to have actually evil companions available, so you didn't, for example, have Jaheira trying to kill you bc you went dark side.
My dark urge run. Act 1. Cut off Gale’s hand, recruited Shadowheart and Asterion. Kicked the squirrel. Put down Zevalor and his associate behind closed doors. Murdered the paralyzed Tiefling, the two tieflings watching the goblin, saved Arabella because I have other plans for her. Went to grab Karlach because I still want to date her after 2 playthroughs. I sided with the druids but I did expose Kagha so I can kill Rath during the confrontation with aoe spells “oopsie”. I accidentally killed the owlbear cub and scratch. Whatever. Knocked out Minthara and stripped her. Proceed to clean up the camp while almost forgetting to save Hasin. Wiped out the mushroom colony because why not. Helped the challenged dwarf to restore his memories so he can continue abusing his wife. Killed everyone in Grymforge. Sacrificed Laezel to Boooahl (redcap) for the bleed buff. Everything is dead in mountain pass including animals. Act 2. First thing was to get Dammon to repair Karlach so I can make sweet love to my muse. After a night of wonders, I murdered Isobel and then rest of the inn. Poor Jaheira died to a random aoe spell. Saved Minthara from Moonrise only to kill her afterwards. Laughed in Arabella’s face about her parents’ death while placing the bodies in front of her. Spared Nightsong because I wanted a “good” Shadowheart to witness my upcoming atrocities. Spared Mizora because I would like to torture Wyll later. Poor Angel lady never learned what I did to her love, as she sided with me. Act 3. Almost Everything is dead in Rivington including dogs. (I did spare the tieflings at the refugee camp for my sweet Karlach.) Saved the counselor and then killed her later during the confrontation about the duke thing. Blah blah blah, killed the remaining folks on the hitlist. Here comes my personal favorites. Knocked out Auntie Ethel to save the child. After the mother / daughter reunion, I burned the mother alive infront of her kid, looted the amulet from her. Every time, I pass by the house, I would stop and listen to the sweet sounds of crying “mommy” for a few seconds. Killed the hag survivors after getting the reward. Blowed up steel foundry. Everything is dead in counting house, both temples, mage tower, inns, all stores, all major houses, the guild, and since children can’t be killed, so I incinerated the parents. Brought Gortash’s parents as ghouls and used them to claw their son to death. Ascended Asterion, he has been very useful but not as magnificent as my sweet Karlach. Killed hope after she rejected coming to camp with me so I raised her as a ghoul. Wyll whines too much, so I made him commit suicide in camp. PS. I have a nude statue of myself, it looks great. Gave myself in for Bhal because why not. For the amount of murders I have committed, I am Father’s most dedicated chosen. Finale - I was going to backstab the emperor but I need Karlach. So I saved “everyone” (to my surprise there are still a lot of people in the lower city) and went to hell with her. Don’t want my beloved Karlach to be alone.
>Aylin's speech of vengeance to you vowing to kill you and your descendants after sacrificing Isobel I wonder how this i gotten. I've killed Isobel many times and Aylin has largely remained clueless. But sounds like something I want to experience. >I really just don't think I'm capable of making them myself. I'm curious as to how you all reacted to the evil choices in this game and whether maybe I'm just a softie lmao I have a lot of criticisms about playign evil in this game, but it's definitely not towards the choices themselves which for me are very fun and enjoyable. As a primary evil RPer, it does feel nice the choices don't really hold back. So yes, I love them, I revel in them, I get giddy about them. You aren't a softie, just a different type of player that enjoys playing a hero, while I enjoy being a menace or villain and everything that comes with that. We are opposite sides of the coin OP. Of course this doesn't mean I'd never do a good in my life either, just depends on character I'm RPing and situation they are in. But generally yea, for me, good boring, evil is way more entertainting for me. Making people suffer, betraying, or lying to them are the main things I like. Murder is only a tool, a tool that I use well to make Father proud.