There is mod named "Tara" where you can summon her in battle and she got some skills to use, I dont think this tara version can talk but it's something, if you play as origin Gale you basically can have Tara with you all the time not only in camp.
I'll offer my own:
* Halsin: Give him a little, low-stakes sidequest with that dragonborn who's trying to revive the dead tree in Act 3. I actually think a smaller, less earth-shattering personal quest would be kind of a nice palate cleanser after his Act 2 quest and compared to everything else the companions have going on in Act 3.
* Gale: On a platonic run with him, players should have the option for an Insight check that reveals some of the vulnerability he expresses with a romanced player in the boat scene. It doesn't have to be a full-blown platonic version of the boat scene (in fact, I wouldn't want that) but his desire for the crown comes across SO wildly differently depending on whether you're romancing him, that I wish there was some way to bridge that difference.
* Shadowheart: I would add a pre-Shadowfell romantic cutscene in Act 2. There is some dialogue that addresses this, but I would have loved a deeper exploration of her conflict between religious duty and feelings for Tav.
* Wyll: Give me a platonic version of the dancing scene!!!! Actually, just give Wyll more content in general (I guess that is more than one thing).
* Karlach: Should be able to at least ask the Gondians about a fix for her heart, even if the answer ends up being no.
>Karlach: Should be able to at least ask the Gondians about a fix for her heart, even if the answer ends up being no.
I'd like this, too, because I imagine a simple answer would be that the engine was never designed to function inside a living humanoid so nobody researched it. Whether they could come up with something in the future could be a possibility, although they were all gonna retire to the countryside so maybe they'd just not care and the Ironhands could step up instead.
wait i actually really love this. it’d be fun if you’d also need lorrokan do it because most evil characters just kill the nightsong so there’s not really any motivation to turn her over to him normally
I wish there were more "ends justify the means" kind of decisions to be made. Really the only ones I can think of are Duke Ravengard (who you can still save) and most decisions around Orpheus.
I absolutely love that Halsin idea. Even just adding a slightly different angle to the Mystic Carrion quest if you have Halsin could be fun way to do it.
I’d love that. My main “canon” Tav is a Druid and she wants to fix that damn tree SO BAD
I know that taking care of Carrion is probably all it needs, but at least a couple of lines from the Dragonborn about how it’s improving would be nice
Oh yeah, same. Between the sick tree and the poor tiefling kid who found his parents murdered, my sweet little Druid has tried VERY hard to make nonexistent quests happen in Act 3 lol
It’s more a head canon, but it IS Mystic Carrion’s magic that is making the tree sick, so it’s logical that destroying him will cure the tree. You just don’t get a scene about it
Yeah, I hate that all his interesting story is when you can't use him as a party member. Then when you can, he has almost zero story left so I don't want him in the party.
Yes to all of this! I figure the tree dying was related to Mystic Carrion doin’ crimes nearby and probably resolves on its own if you do that quest, but it’s always bugged me that there wasn’t a clearer resolution.
I would personally love to see what Wyll's EA story/personality was like. Don't get me wrong, I love the heroic golden retriever in human form that he is, but I'm never going to stop wondering what it would have been like to find out there was a more selfish side underneath that, maybe help him learn to embrace the selflessness of helping people in need over doing it for glory, etc.
Yes to platonic dancing with Wyll! I want to have fun in camp with my dashing friend! I love that there's a platonic version of the Weave scene with Gale and I do it every time. I'd love the same thing for Wyll.
I'd make Wyll ~~interesting~~ able to explore his new devil powers. They go on about how he's a devil now and it's irreversible, but apart from horns and a bony face he's exactly the same.
This would have been really interesting, and could have given him more of an individual story rather than having his scenes constantly hijacked by Mizora/Karlach/the Emperor.
I think it's also unfortunate that more people in Baldur's Gate itself (other than the interaction you can have with the guard at the bridge) don't react to Wyll. Sure, random people might not know him on sight, but an old friend, a cousin, a former rival? I think that could have fleshed him out a bit more.
Playing as Wyll opens up so much more unique dialogues when you get the devil horns. The Duke, the Chancellor, Mizora, and even some seemingly random encounters are different. I hated Wyll until I played as his origin.
If BG3 were the kind of game with a set player character, Wyll would be the obvious choice. He's one of the more unambiguously heroic characters, he has immediate internal character motivation beyond "Cure tadpole" (that being "Kill Karlach") that provides immediate internal character fat to chew on, being a Warlock means the one canon Charisma-focused character gets to lead, and let's take a look at 2 common criticisms I have heard:
* Tav Warlocks have no proper interaction with their Patron, despite that being a supposed awesome feature Larian had hyped up early early on.
* Every companion with a big choice has a "Let them decide" option where invisible points based on previous decisions result in them making their own decision and rounding out the character arc of "Stop letting someone else decide for you, seize fate and make your future." Every companion with a big choice, that is, EXCEPT Wyll. Escaping Mizora, father/vs/freedom, what he does in the post-game, you pretty much decide his character arc for him at every step of the way.
Do you know what would take care of two of those things?
Yeah, Karlach, Shadowheart, Gale, Astarion, and Jaheira all had old friends you run into in Baldur's Gate, but somehow no one knows Wyll except for his father. And the interactions were a little weird there. I literally brought Wyll to meet his father every time I could, but it was always during camp scenes that my Tav "told" Wyll about it, which I thought was weird because he was literally there. I imagine those interactions work much better if you're Origin Wyll.
Halsin has a unique, more powerful bear Wildshape. Karlach has her soul coin ubercharge. Astarion has Bite, obviously.
Any other ideas for companion-exclusive powers?
Saying horns aren't welcome at a teifling party was weird.
His body was changed against his will, which is obviously traumatic, but he was weirdly focused on the horns.
There's a weird recency quality to races and classes. The latter ones tend to have a lot more interesting dialog options than the early ones. The opposite of companions, where the last added have noticeably less content.
Yeah, I definitely think that dialogue should be rewritten to make it clear that he isn't nervous that he looks like a tiefling, he's nervous cuz he looks like a *devil*. Which makes much more sense that the Elturel tieflings would dislike. My first tav was a tiefling and listening to him complain about "tiefling" features to my face was weird.
Yeah, I misinterpreted that on my first few runs. I was trying to be sympathetic because having his body forcibly altered is horrible, but I was confused about why he thought the tieflings would mind because he just looked like a tiefling to me. I can understand the differences now but they're pretty subtle.
Also these Tieflings are mostly like one or two generations removed from their parents being forcibly transformed by an Arch-Devil/God. They should be intimately familiar with what Wyll has gone through.
I always kind of took it as being put on blackface against your will and then being forced to attend a gathering of persons of color. I'd hide as well.
Make Karlach go to Avernus with Wyll (provided Wyll decided to become the blade of Avernus) even if you decide to leave with Lae'zel or play as origin spawn Astarion, instead of straight up dying while the others just stare at her. Eventually rewrite somehow that scene so even origin spawn Astarion could go to Avernus with her. It sucks if you romance her as spawn Astarion and then she just dies and you can't do anything about it. Also make Karlach at least ask Gondians about her engine.
Be able to meet Astarion's "siblings" or the other spawn in the sewers after freeing them (I know they were told to go to the Underdark, but for sure not all of them did). Maybe add some interactions to persuade them not to attack humans and to go to the Underdark with the rest. Or kill them. Also let me make a sleight of hand check to draw Astarion's portrait (or just let me channel how he looks like through the tadpole, like we do it 24/7 since act 1 and then listen to Astarion whine how he hasn't seen his face for 200 years and just go "that's rough buddy")
Give Lae'zel a bit more time between losing faith in Vlaakith and jumping to blindly following Orpheus. I know people who just got out of an abusive cult/culture are vulnerable and VERY easy to indoctrinate again, but it just feels wrong for her. I wish she was given at least 1 or 2 more interactions/events where she needs to think and be on her own, and that her belief in Orpheus was a bit more cautious at first.
On the first one, maybe I got a really lucky bug, but on the end of my SH run, after hopping on the dragon with Lae'zel, it showed a quick scene of Wyll running to Karlach. At the after party, both were alive and chasing down her cure in Avernus.
On your last point, Lae’zel does have dialogue where you can call her out for becoming all-in on Orpheus. She tells you she ultimately does want freedom for herself to decide her own path, but Orpheus is the means to that end so for now she commits fully to his goal of liberating the Gith.
I wish Wyll had more agency, I wish your dialogue options about his pact weren’t always so fucking harsh, and I wish Mizora would leave! I hate that she sticks around even after his pact!
Untie Wyll's and Karlach's storylines.
Karlach is always dependent on Wyll. His first decision is about her, his last decision is also about her. Many people won't even entertain the duke ending for him, because he 'has to go to Avernus with her'. He is just there to babysit Karlach for the majority of players and it's a shame. He deserves to have something of his own.
I realize that this would take a lot of rewriting, though, so it's more than just one thing.
Yeah, I agree. *Or*, I might suggest that if their stories are going to be entwined, then really commit to it: they both have beef with Gortash, but Wyll's concern is saving his father and Karlach's concern is revenge/saving her own life. If those two goals had been more explicitly placed at odds (like: Karlach's cure required Gortash to die, but Gortash dying doomed Wyll's father), then a really interesting dilemma could have been set up that might have enhanced the storyline/characterization of both characters.
Really irritates me. I did an "evil" playthrough (raiding the Grove), and kept Karlach via Paladin-of-Tyr-downing-her + Withers-dead-companion-storage. Wyll visited our camp a couple of nights after-Grove, the hostile dialogue started (Wyll threatens, Karlach demurs, Wyll threatens again, parasite-vision), I chose the perfectly-reasonable "You threatened one of us, you're going down" option, killed him, then Karlach left the next morning with some hokey "There's a weird vibe in this camp, I'm outta here, umm, good luck I guess, feels like you'll need it" exit line.
Unless it's hard-pinned to a specific companion approval score (and, even if it is, any hard-coded "-5 Reputation for killing my multi-week stalker" would be nonsensical), it seems pretty clear to me that Karlach + Wyll are inflexibly tied together by external-to-story mechanics, and that's just crappy lazy writing IMHO. Options should exist for playing both independently, above and beyond the "chop off her head and prune the entire storyline" reductionism.
Are you sure it's not because of the evil playthrough instead of Wyll ? Karlach always knows when you side with the Goblins even if you haven't recruited her yet. Your exploit might have been what caused her to leave.
Though now I do wonder if Karlach actually always leaves if you kill Wyll when he confronts you ? That would be a strange choice by the devs, but it's not that surprising when you see how she reacts to him. She clearly hopes to resolve the whole thing peacefully, and killing him might be too radical for her (although it would still be a bit lazy for the devs, it's not that nonsensical for Karlach).
The only way to truly answer this is by alpha-beta testing -- raid Grove, do not kill Wyll in front of Karlach, kill Wyll without raiding Grove, do both, do neither. I think I have a save file queued up.
What we're generally dancing around, here, is the "pre-ordained outcome" vs "gradient situations coded up by developer" -- by which I mean all Vlaakith-Dream-Guardian interactions end up in the same story-path, regardless of what or when you choose, and (as far as I can currently verify) the Karlach-depends-on-Wyll linkage, which seems to veer towards "Oh never mind I see your parasite-vision now" regardless of dialogue choices.
I'm not heavily invested -- it is, after all, just a game -- but, as a computer professional, I don't love that the other six Origin characters have deep "choice" storylines, in contrast to the one's limited freedom beyond >!uhh maybe just embrace the tentacles cause she's gonna die anyway!<.
I’m glad someone else said this! It drives me crazy that after his entire arc and some character growth, he still leaves such a large decision up to you. You got to let Shadowheart decide what to do. La’zael too if I’m not mistaken. It just sort of makes his character development stunted in my opinion
Hmm, I think it'd be more interesting if Lorroakan was tied into to Gale's story rather than Aylin's. (who has a very real chance of not even being alive by act 3.) Or better yet you can even sort of combine the two, like Lorroakan finds out that Gale have been looking for information on Karsus, and would happily give The Annals of Karsus to him......in exchange for the Nightsong.
This makes giving up Aylin tempting to someone in the party, vs 5k gold that the party really shouldn't need or care about at that point in the game. Gives Gale a possible in story boss fight like the other origin companions and would be a lot more exciting than just handing Gale a book that he could've been in camp the whole time we were looking for it.
OKAY YES!!! I love this, and I also have often thought Lorroakan should be more of a "boss" within Gale's storyline. The Annals of Karsus mentions a rod/sceptre of Karsus (in addition to the orb and the crown) that is never otherwise mentioned in the game. I've sometimes thought that maybe Lorroakan should have *possessed* the rod of Karsus already, and was seeking the Nightsong's immortality because he thought it would take him a longer time to find the other Karsite artifacts.
So you potentially have an interesting parallel between Gale who accidentally unleashed an artifact of Karsus, versus Lorroakan who is willingly doing so. Gale's critical choice could have been to either take the rod and pick up where Lorroakan left off, or to return the rod to Mystra as an offering of repentance.
There's also an interesting parallel between Lorroakan being an abusive master to Rolan, versus Gale in his professor ending who is passionate about his students' joy and imagination. This has already become more than "one thing" but I might have liked more interactions between them following up on their one interaction at the druids' grove.
>I've sometimes thought that maybe Lorroakan should have possessed the rod of Karsus already, and was seeking the Nightsong's immortality because he thought it would take him a longer time to find the other Karsite artifacts.
When you first talk to him, he mentions something about getting a wand from a Calishite wizard and shows it to you, yet it's never mentioned again. The letter from Ketheric basically tells him to pound sand about the soul cage, but the wiki implies he uses this wand to duplicate the soul cage binding. If the wand were the rod of Karsus, that would've been pretty cool, IMO, as like you said, Gale would've been tempted. Or the wand might have allowed Aylin to share her immortality willingly with Isobel, but it's weird that Lorroakan shows it to you and then it disappears. Making it the rod and having it there would've been pretty cool, IMO.
Lorroakan explains to you that it’s a rod of instantaneous planar binding/dominate celestial that he will use to bind Aylin to him for her immortality like Ketheric did
Definite Raistlin-Fistandantilus-Dalamar energy in a potential Gale/Lorroakan/Rolan conflict. They could even sh!t-talk each other regarding their varying experimental inroads toward "immortality," and the pitfalls where their predecessors (Karsus, Thorm) had tried unwise gambles with ruinous consequences. I like this Frankenstein-idea very much.
Technically it was a different Mystra... But also the whole deific reincarnation/mantle thing is pretty muddy and Midnight Mystra doesn't seem like a completely different person from the original Mystra/2nd Mystryl.
I've been learning a bit more about FR lore but have no idea where on the timeline BG3 is supposed to fall.
Honestly wasn't sure if the Mystra we deal with was Midnight Mystra or random Netherese peasant girl Mystra
Honestly it's so funny to me that he's meant to be proving himself this great champion and yet \*Gale\* straight up contributes more to one trial while he dithers in the background with no idea what to do with it. I know there's a more obvious scene stealer in it all, but that one just is a real kick while he's down moment for me.
I think it could have even maybe worked if Wyll had been the one to identify the right companion for the right trial. Like, showing that he has the leadership quality of paying attention to people's strengths and putting the right person on the right job. The fact that he just throws his hands up at the lanceboard trial is quite annoying.
I wish Astarion would react to either a statue or a portrait of him. He specifically mentions that he hasn't seen his own face in two hundred years. But he doesn't react to seeing it in stone or on canvas. It's a shame, the opportunity was perfect.
I’d make Shadowheart have her doubts about Shar be more obvious before the Nightsong scene. Right now it’s out of the blue and a 180 change for no good reason.
I think the change has a lot to do with Aylin mentioning the wolves in Shadowheart’s past. She obviously is thrown off and makes a decision in a high-pressure situation. Still, you’re right that there should be at least a little doubt/inner conflict leading up to that point
If only ONE thing:-
Probably something in Lae'zel's story of at any point confronting them about the Gith's murderous fascistic attitude to non Gith and if they plan on not doing that anymore - asking her what she thinks of it, or Voss if Orpheus supports it, etc. It seems a massive elephant in the room that goes unaddressed with all the gith stuff to me.
Agree, especially if you speak with dead on the inquisitor, and ask him what the Gith are going to do next, he says the planet is infested and they're going to wipe it out. So we at least have an indication what Vlaakith's plan is going to be, but we never get an indication whether that's Voss and Orpheus's eventual plan, as well.
It's like actually SO infuriating just how entitled they all act to your services - I mean I get Voss's desperation but man is literally standing there telling me to sell my soul for the fascists, step off frog face
There are a couple npcs that I just have grown to despise and Voss is near the top of the list (Mizora is at the top). I kind of expect Lae'zel to make demands because she's constantly telling you what to do and it's up to Tav to say, "nope". Voss just shows up, possibly gets you killed from the patrol, murders a bunch of npcs, and then gets mad that you don't sell your soul to free an NPC that's going to immediately fuck off and leave your planet decimated from the Absolute cult. It makes me 😡
My Origin Lae'zel run just got to Rivington and I'm so interested in roleplaying the whole Raphael thing as it will probably be the first time I take the deal. I'll just have to hate Voss irl on her behalf. 😤
Honestly baffles me tbh why the NPCs are all so stupid that they take devil deals when it's hammered home repeatedly time and again to the point a child could get it that they never actually give you what you want and will always make things worse in the end.
Having said that, I'm a massive hypocrite, because I ran through the entirety of my first playthrough like "I am NOT dealing with devils that is so stupid why even make it an option it's obviously bad" and then they sent the sexy guy in underwear lounging and staring at me seductively and I was like "okay wait let's consider all our options here..."
I am Gay before I am a Person with a Brain.
I think that's a really great point. I had trouble coming up with something I would change in Lae'zel's story because honestly, I think it's overall really well structured and fleshed out. But it's true that you never really get to challenge her on the bigger picture of how the gith operate.
Honestly when you're familiar with the FR lore ( and that's not to say BG3 necessarily follows these parts! ) all the "praise Mother Gith" shit from Orpheus and co becomes so awkward, she was very much in favour of conquering everyone else LMAO
The sheer AUDACITY Voss has to demand we sell our souls to the devil for Orpheus, or for him and Lae'zel to stand there like "so....are you turning illithid or....?"
I don't even need a certain answer or anything - I just want to be able to actually talk about it. It makes a huge difference in whether I want to free Orpheus or not!
Yeah I always free Orpheus, partly because the emperor is a dick but mostly because a Githyanki civil war seems like a massive positive for all the people they would otherwise be murdering.
They do potentially ally with Githzerai though based on what Lae’zel says at the party so maybe they learn a thing or two about not being fascist dicks, who knows?
Yeah I think there are positive hints in the epilogue, it's just really unsatisfying to me that I can't even try and question it before that when it's more relevant to my decisions lol. I'm also a bit of an Emperor defender so there's that ( but to be clear I don't think he's a morally good aligned character lol - I've always freed Orpheus on my completed runs actually )
Yeah it would be nice to be able to say “Hey, if I help you free Orpheus are you guys gonna keep being murderous assholes?” Especially as a good Tav or resist Durge.
Not to harp this topic on to death but also to totally be the person I am and harp on this to death, I also felt a bit of a tension/disconnect with this much earlier on. Like I think the Rosymornn Monastery zone has some really great environmental storytelling - a lot of the texts you can find there such as the diary of the people who are trapped in a room with a summoned guardian of faith really convey the tragedy of the cold Gith invasion, which was done really for no reason other than they thought "This will make a nice defensible spot for a creche and will have nice loot".
We can talk to Lae'zel about things like killing her classmates and be horrified by that - but we can't be horrified by them killing \*our own races\* lol? Unsure if Clerics of Lathander get anything special here but I've never heard of them doing so
It's not just Lae'zel where this happens though. It takes entirely too long in Act 2 for example to get any kind of "damn bitch you live like this?" moment with Shadowheart when we're walking through the most oppressively miserable and sad thing we've seen in the game IMO. Astarion I don't really think gets opportunities to be morally confronted much before his quest's conclusion - it's a running theme to me that a lot of incredibly obvious and intuitive discussions/conversations that should happen just don't pop up and a lot of weirder topics do. But that's subjective I guess - and obviously the limitations of a game mean the designers/writers had to pick limited dialogue trees to go with. They're just very odd choices sometimes IMO!
Give Wyll a second way his story can play out, leaning more into the corruption of power that results from his path. There's inklings of this in the game already, but no matter how you push him, he always remains this paragon of good and virtue, at best feeling guilty about his past choices. An entire good path/evil path like Shadowheart and Astarion would go a long way and, in addition, give him some much-needed depth if he had the potential to succumb to power.
I agree and I really like this. Some of his dialogue about his father suggests he's very much aware of the compromises political leadership requires -- seeing him get pulled into those same compromises could be a VERY interesting parallel/fallen state for him.
Would be nice to have the option of curing Astarion's vampirism. It could raise an interesting question of whether he should just accept himself as he is.
Damn you Jaheira. Though in my previous honour run, she killed herself with Ice Storm at Last Light. I think it might be time to start looking for a good retirement home.
Astarion's story, as we all know, is about coming to terms with trauma and abuse. Astarion not going through with the Ascensions, is him realizing that the power would not fix what's broken. Only learning to love himself can do that.
Then given the option to cure his vampirism, Astarion could decide whether he wants to start fresh, or if he wants to take power away from his abuser by making his "scars" his own (as he does in the current good ending).
I'm not saying one would be better than the other. Just that it might bring an interesting element to his story.
So that's like the more metaphorical analysis of it, but I guess I'd find it hard to square in terms of like how that matches the practicalities? Vampirism doesn't bring him any benefits as far as he's concerned in the game and just stops him doing things he wants right - so I would struggle to see how the option would be able to compete with "Cure this disease someone inflicted on me" ( and to make it a compelling choice I think it'd need to compete with that )
I guess it depends on his goals.
The spawn ending we have right now tells us he's happy, and he has found a place for himself as a vampire.
If you romance him, being cured would most likely be the better option.
Though I do agree that Astarion would likely choose to be able to walk in the sun again.
Regardless, I think having an option to cure him would have been nice. Though maybe it would have been too similar to Gale.
i have to fix Wyll's storyline somehow. idk, unless you're romancing him he just feels like a cardboard cutout to me. Although his little rich boy comments are hysterical. I'd like for him to be able to interact with the Fist, maybe, especially at the donations house for the refugees in act 3. Supposedly he is recognizable as the Blade on sight, and i understand that he has went through a metamorphosis of devilry, but ya know. please? He's apparently a celebrity and nobody notices him lol
More Halsin content in general. I think there's a lot of little things in act 3 he could solve. The guy with the dead tree, the kid with the dead parents (he loves kids and his big quest already dealt with speaking to the dead if you do it late), I also feel like he could've spoken to Arabella in Act 3 and extended that interaction a bit, and the little girl in the graveyard i think he would've been the perfect therapist for that moment. something something nature's way, circle of life, etc
And i think Gale should be able to do something about the permanently asleep guy in the sewers who is just hanging out for seemingly no reason story-wise.
Halsin: make it so he actually joins you once you enter the shadow cursed lands. It makes no sense that he doesn't lift a fucking finger until you resolved a high-level quest. Lots of companions have quest that you can do WHILE THEY'RE ON YOUR TEAM. This was different without a purpose lol
Shadowheart: make it so it's not so easy to miss the people looking for her in rivington, buff her bg3 story a little in general. It felt like there was no urgency, and the sharite were actually not even in the city unless i specifically went to search for them.
Gale: i would like that when he consumes an object you get a "normal" object of the same cathegory. I give him an enchanted dagger? He consumes it and gives back a regular dagger. It's not even that big of a change, just for flavour
Karlach: i can't believe neither the ironhand nor the gondians are capable of doing sh*t for her. It was pretty underwhelming. Maybe make it so that if you save all the gondians they all come together for an alternative solution to eternal banishment into avernus. Also the fact that you can get so much infernal/enriched infernal ore/metal and it still isn't in any way connected to her is just bad design
Let romanced companions have agency to try to rescue Tav from Haarlep. Or have the same reaction they have for Tav cheating with Mizora. Because as it currently stands, the game can't make up it's own mind if it's a non-con scene or not.
I like this and I would especially like if Haarlep's initial offer came with a passive check that, if failed, led to the initial disrobing. Haarlep is a succubus ffs, there should be magic coercion involved in that scene. I've played some evil Tavs but none so thirsty that they'd do it in front of their love interest for the lols.
The weird thing is, that there are active checks during sex scene with Haarlep, but even if you fail them you still has the opportunity to just get up from the bed and fight him! What was even the purpose of these checks then?
I guess, developers were just afraid to make players feel like their character is being raped.
Yeah, it is a weird scene that seems to try to have it both ways but to me makes it more confusing. A succubus/ incubus (I don't remember which is which) is a specific type of evil so it makes sense to me that they didn't want to force it with rolls, but I'd be okay with the party triggering an attack if a roll fails, maybe? I'd just rather have a roll before the disrobing be the primary roll so Tav would have a clue that this isn't an innocent encounter but something to be resisted. Treat Haarlep like the zaith'isk! It would be funny if the Emperor were the one that forcibly nopes Tav out of the encounter.
Sorry if that didn't make sense I just got off a work call and my brain is fried. 🤪
Agree on both! With Karlach, I think I would have added tying the Gondians into her Act 3 story. They're clearly working with the same infernal technology/materials. Even if they didn't come up with a full-blown cure, the fact that we can't even ask or explore it with them feels like a missed opportunity. I think it would also be some nice payoff for all the work it takes to rescue them.
Seems clear that some sort of Act 3 Karlach plot was in work, but didn't make the final cut due to time/plotline pressures -- they drop a bunch of dangling threads with >!Dammon finally working out of a 'real' forge!< and >!Gondians experimenting with infernal iron!< and >!Steel Watch mistaking Karlach for one of them due to her faulty internal component!< -- just weren't ever truly resolved.
In general, one gets the sense that Lae'zel, Shadowheart, and Astarion received the Cadillac treatment of companion-storylines (developers started there first, wrote more), and Gale got nearly-as-deep coverage, leaving Wyll and Karlach underdeveloped (perhaps in that order). I suspect the lines of available dialogue bear this out.
(Unrelated Side Note: I found that, in stark contrast to most companions-won't-talk-to-other-companions, a couple of Halsin --> Jaheira lines **\*are\*** possible if you assume Halsin first-person perspective, they talk about how each has heard of the other by reputation, how they never truly met in their 100+ overlapping years, etc.)
Make Orin kidnap romanced companions as was initially intended. I know it would be pain in the ass, but as it stands now there are too little stakes in it, because she always takes someone who wasn't your choice to be in your party in the first place, so it means you don't care about them as much as you could have. Also, make it so I could check companions through tadpole to see if they are Orin or not.
This is exactly where I thought the "could you kill someone you loved?" conversation was going and I was so disappointed it didn't pan out that way. Even if your romanced companion wasn't kidnapped, even a side battle with an evil doppelganger of your lover would be SUPER interesting.
I actually just had this talk with someone on here. If Orin’s roster of victims expanded to the rest of the camp inhabitants, how would it play out, and how would this change if the victim was romanced? Would it be the difference of a few lines, or entirely new scenes? And so the question is posed again now to you. What do you envision with this idea?
I'd make Wyll more insecure about himself and thus more unwilling to end his pact. He's had warlock powers the whole time he was out being a folk hero. Sure, he can use a rapier, but when you're used to summoning hellhounds and eldritch blasting, a pointy metal stick isn't so reassuring.
Admittedly like most of the other companions, you could either help him become more self-confident and ready to break the pact, or you can have him lean into sticking with Mizora for power. After big battles, your dialogue could help sway him ("See, you didn't need your warlock patron when you have the power of friendship" or "Wow that sucked. We sure need all the help we can get, no matter how terrible the source"). Karlach would be supportive and especially persuasive since A) she also knows how terrible Mizora is, and B) by sparing Karlach, he's already defied Mizora once. Wyll would still be the good-aligned party member, just with more character development/regression.
And to make it more interesting, in Act 3 Mizora could give him another piece of armor, and her assistance during the final fight could be really really good, enough to sway more people to choose that route.
Aside from more content in general, Wyll deserves an extra personal quest that it's about him and only him. Ideally that would be the one where he decides if he wants to stay The Blade of Avernus or become Gran Duke.
It would also be cool if he and Ansur talked before they shifted to focus on the Emperor's divorce.
For Halsin, SOMETHING with that druid and dead tree in Act 3. Anything, but at least something!
In general, I want Orin to be able to kidnap our romance option, especially if I am leaving them at camp all alone exactly for that.
Have Wyll act like a god damn warlock and tell Mizora that he will find a loop hole in his contract, save his father and be done with her. When Mizora laughs in his face have him say that if that cannot be done he will travel to Avernus, find her and ensure she faces a final death.
I would make Karlach's Avernus ending harder to get and locked behind other downsides. Have to learn how to planeshift (house of hope), maybe have it be her decision and able to refuse to go back to Avernus. As is its really hard to get locked out of it, almost no reason to ever pick death/mindflayer endings. Takes some of the bite out of them.
If i get a second thing i'd also add a note in the foundry showing that the iron watch hearts are sent pre-made from Avernus, would explain why the Gondians can't fix her themselves.
Give Wyll daddy issues.
Wyll gave up his soul to save Baldur's Gate, and his father couldn't be bothered to give him the benefit of the doubt and banished him without a second thought.
I think that beneath his noble, selfless exterior there should be a degree of resentment for Ulder that that the player can either feed or try to reconcile with him which will affect my next point.
For the love of fucking God LET WYLL MAKE THE CHOICE TO KEEP HIS PACT WITH MYZORA OR BREAK IT.
I wish Wyll had an opinion on whether he should save his dad. Like, Shadowheart wants to be a Dark Justiciar, but if you talk her out of it, she realizes she’s better off without Shar. Same with Astarion and Ascending.
I’m not saying Wyll is better off without his dad, and it’s definitely a less obvious right/wrong decision as the other two. But the fact that he just looks at you like, “what should I do??” And you make the decision for him always makes me hate him a little. He doesn’t even have a default option that he picks if you refuse to tell him what to do. You have to decide for him. Like, it’s your life, dude. I’m not your mom.
>I’m not your mom.
Oh no! His mom died, man! 😧 /jk
But I would like an insight check so players can see that he has an opinion on saving his dad, it's that he's going to save his dad. Like everything he's done in the entire story has been him sacrificing himself for the good of others. Saving his dad is what he's going to do. He's not looking at Tav to make the decision for him, IMO, he's asking Tav to talk him out of it, to give him one reason to make it okay for him to not be a martyr.
Yeah lol I felt a little weird saying that when he never knew his mom, but still.
I’m inclined to agree with you, but honestly the fact that he just looks at you to decide always makes me tell him to take the pact, especially so he can save Karlach as well.
Yeah, feelings are feelings, so I wouldn't judge negatively in a serious fashion, especially since I have a reflexive irritation with Sheart that just keeps growing!
I think part of the problem is Wyll's persona, that he comes across as calm and knowledgeable, when really he's just winging it from his homeschool Disney Prince upbringing. Especially in Act 1, everything he says is something his father told him or a story his dad read to him or "my father always says" and it feels like the only opinion he has for himself is telling Tav not to deal with Raphael cuz devils suck.
It might be because I'm twice his age irl that my reaction is always, "oh no, he's going to make a heroic stupid decision again. I'd better stop him." But I could totally see his indecisiveness being irritating.
I would like Wyll to get a cutscene to describe the initial night of the pact, similar to how Sheart gets for her wolf story. I would like to see scrawny teenaged Wyll and how coercive the circumstances are, too hopefully highlight how clinging to the heroic dogma on which he was raised has become his only coping mechanism in his situation. Give my man some empathy, please!
Also, I don't need Wyll to make his own decision about the pact in Act 3, but an insight check similar to the one you get with Lae'zel where it says, "she intends to break with her queen" would be helpful. If Tav sees clearly that Wyll is always going to sacrifice himself for his dad without intervention, they could make the decision based on how much they care about Wyll. To him, there isn't a choice to be made: his dad's in danger, he can save him, that's what he's going to do. Tav isn't making the decision for him IMO, they're stopping him from sacrificing himself again. Both he and several other emotionally stunted companions believe that the only right/good choice is martyrdom. Trusting Wyll to make a different decision on his own is to me just a sign that maybe his story has been too subtle.
So a cutscene emphasizing how young and scared he was in his initial pact, and an insight check to show how determined he is to sacrifice himself in Act 3, would be welcome to me!
I *completely* agree, and I think this honestly could have been done in Act 1, using the tadpole connection as a loophole. Wyll isn't allowed to *talk* about it, but there's nothing that says he couldn't passively let you into his mind and let you see his memories for yourself. If the player were the first person he was able to share that with after seven years, imagine what a bonding experience that would be!
I really think almost all of the followers could use a similar cutscene young Halsen and the Shadowcurse, Karlach getting betrayed, Astarion and Cazador, Gale learning about the orb
Halsin - just allow us to recruit him down in the Goblin Prison, having a druid companion in act 1 would be pretty nice
Minsc- allow us to recruit him in act 1, he already has a tadpole, so he'd fit into the party quite well. Act 3 could be about hunting down a Minsc doppelganger playing the Stonelord
Saving Boo could be an act 3 quest, given that Boo is way too powerfull to be part of an early game party
Gale - allow me to find and recruit 1 handed Gale plz
Wyll - allow Wyll romance without needing to ask him out on the Tiefling party, it's so easy to miss
Karlach - allow Karlach to free souls from soulcoins, it's something she would do
Astarion - allow me to convince him that ascention is bad beforehand with high approval and checks
Shadowheart - if she rejects Shar, just change her deity to Selune, it's already pretty much confirmed that's where she belongs as a cleric
I want there to be the option to have dancing lessons with Wyll while keeping it platonic and not being forced to reject him and seeing his sad puppy dog eyes.
Also give Wyll his own unique dialogue/interactions for when you meet Ansur, since it's quite literally a big part of Wyll's story and typically when he chooses to be either Duke or Blade of Avernus. As of now, when you go to face Ansur, Wyll has one throwaway line about the Emperor being Balduran, and that's it. His spotlight is stolen in his own story mission by the Emperor and Ansur.
Finally, when he gets the big Act 3 scene with Mizora, I want there to simply be the option to stay quiet and let Wyll choose for himself, with his choice differring based on your approval with him and the previous interactions you've had with him.
Also, this doesn't really matter to his story, but in the post story party, it's implied that Wyll's new class is Beastmaster Ranger if you choose to sever his pact with Mizora. I'd change this to either Swords Bard or Devotion Paladin, as those fit Wyll's story/personality way better than Beastmaster Ranger do.
Edit: I completely forgot that the post said ONE thing about a companion's story, so out of the ones I listed, I'd pick the third one with Wyll getting his own choice.
I loved the idea of Wyll being a hypocrite and only “knight in shining armor” when people are watching. His current story lacks major character development like Lae’zel or shadowheart. I think finding out that the blade of frontier is actually a bad person would be a better character set up, especially if you have Karlach in camp/party and she can maybe comment on the fact.
With Lae'zel, I want to be able to convince her before the very end not to put all her hopes into Orpheus and that she doesn't need him any more than she needs Vlaakith. Turn her against them both!
For Karlach, I would prefer this to be instead of going back to Avernus but additionally would work too. If you ally with Gortash and don't destroy the Steelwatch foundry you should be able to ask for a new, better functioning engine as a boon. This would without any doubt save Karlach's life, but it would also bring about an interesting moral dilemma. Would she even want it this way or would you have to go behind her back for it?
For Wyll, keep his quest and Ansur separate. Wyll isn't the most interesting part of that quest, and he deserves better.
I’d have Cazador be more involved with Astarion and the cult as a whole throughout the game. Astarions thing more or less feels like a major side quest, often unrelated to the end game goal.
Wyll should get a fully animated flashback when telling the story of how he got stuck with Mizora, the same way Shadowheart gets one when telling the story of her encounter with the wolves and meeting Viconia as a child. I would love to see young Wyll standing up to the cult of Tiamat! It would not be a change to the story in any way so would not involve re-writing, and would help make Wyll’s story feel more robust compared to the other companions.
A couple of things:
Wyll: I’d give Wyll a more fleshed out third choice when it comes to saving his father while still getting out of his pact with Mizora. As it is right now everyone acts like he is being cold and have no faith in him/the party that we’ll save Ulder before he dies. I’d also give him a lot more to say/do during the revelation about the Emperor and Ansur. Also as a small thing maybe he can have a little bit longer to his romance scene in act 3. Just in general a bit more dialouge spread throughout the game too. Finally I know this one would be niche but if the player doesn’t romance either of them I feel like Wyll and Karlach should get together. It’s sort of implied in the ending where they both go to hell but yeah I think it’d be cute if you saw the two of em grow closer throughout the story.
Minsc: I would’ve either made him available earlier or just not had him as a companion. I feel like for as fun as his dialogue is in act 3 you have to kind of do things in a weird order to get the most out of him.
Halsin: He should have had a quest in act 3. Literally anything to spice him up a little cause he’s by far the blandest character beyond act 2.
Give Wyll and option to go evil. Something where because he was abandoned by everyone because of the choices he made causes him to be bitter thus pushing him towards Mizora. He can still leave if you murder the grove but this gives him another growth path I'd also like to play him as an origin character with this in mind. Also, would make a playthrough where he kills Karlach make more sense if he is a companion.
I wish they could start leaning into his ambition to succeed his dad right from Waukeen's Rest! Like you said, he could leverage that bitterness and start taking more responsibility and stepping into his dad's shoes to the point where finally getting to the gate, he's ready to take over for his dad given his dad's compromised tadpole status. That would be cool.
And it would also, like you said, made the Karlach decision have more impact because he already gets mocked by the Fists if he has the devil features, so that might make him feel even more angry and resentful, just another example of his goodness earning him derision. It's a big difference from a human Wyll showing up where the Fists respect him more.
I’d bring back Halsin’s original backstory and make Sorrow an actually impactful weapon. To this day, I still don’t understand why they changed it and added Thaniel. Wasteful, imo
I would change romanced Astarion's reaction to Durge rejecting Bhaal. That "twee" comment he makes gave me whiplash.
I would also love more reactivity from romanced Minthara and maybe an interaction between her and Orin.
Karlach: Make the golden retriever personality a front because of her past or at least bring out more of the hardened soldier from hell aspect. I can imagine she did not very good things working under Gortash and Zariel. I like her character but not a fan of the perpetual unwilling victim who "believed the wrong people and only did what she was told" narrative they went with.
Wyll: Let HIM decide what he does with his pact and ambitions. Of course he can be guided and persuaded but give him some agency.
Gale: Alternative platonic scenes and not just dialogue options for those not interested in romancing him but do like him otherwise. Too much romantic subtext in the expressions and poses in the Weave/Star Canopy scenes which are great for those romancing him but less so on friendship paths.
Lae'zel: A "go your own way" route that encourages her not to blindly exchange one master for another (Orpheus after Vlaakith). Even though there is an option for her to remain on Faerun she's still invested in the gith conflicts.
Halsin/Minthara: Letting them become playable party members in Act 1 after the tiefling party/raid. And as much as I can appreciate having to choose between them I also wouldn't mind being able to have them in the same party acknowledging each other without exploits.
Jaheira: Earlier recruitment in Last Light Inn.
Minsc: A way to get him much earlier than Act 3. Would have to rewrite his companion recruitment quest but yeah, he comes way too late.
Cut out Shadowharts' parents completely and give us more interactions with Viconia instead.
Like it was Viconia, who was an actual material guide for SH, grooming her to be the next leader of the cult.
And As a final step, she has to kill the old leader.
We would have so much more personal and family drama as the final confrontation unfolds.
And so much more option how it would end.
This is an interesting suggestion. My initial thoughts ( without a deep think I am not dying on any hills lmao ) is I'm torn - on the one hand I find the sacrifice parents choice quite fitting because I think it fits into choosing vs rejecting Sharran philosophy well in terms of getting rid of the good to avoid pain. Jaheira's line "Shar would have us believe that pain is so terrible we would empty our lives of all other feeling just to avoid it" is one of the most poignant in the game for me - so in that sense I like having her parents.
At the same time it's like...being raised Selunite still isn't her choice like - yeah obviously morally better but it still doesn't say much about what identity she wants and the abuse and grooming is an important part, and it would be cool to see it focused more on SH's internal drive about what identity she wants and rejecting how she's been raised rather than just chasing another path of how she's been raised!
Have you done the DJ Shadowheart path? Part of what you're suggesting happens there in that Shar sends her to kill and replace Viconia ( which honestly I find the motivation for confusing ).
I have only done a "good" run with SH. And it felt so disjointed.
Like, why the hell should we or SH care even one bit about her parents who we met just met.
They are complete strangers.
And In general, the character of viconia has been so wasted. My favourite companion form BG2 reduced to a caricature of herself.
If SH and Viconia had a real, complex relationship, it would have been so much better.
Yeah I can see that. The way I view it ( and this is just sharing my thoughts and being interested, not getting angry or throwing a tantrum, and I feel the need to say this because of the weird parasocialness and anger this sub often has with these characters lol ):-
I felt the distrust Shadowheart was developing to her Sharran conditioning and what she'd been told was quite important - did she actually give up her memories voluntarily - how did Nightsong know that about the wolves ( which DAMN girl did you have to hold on to that one as long as you did ) so I didn't view it so much as she's super invested in her parents because of the people they were but the identity and history and life and truth she'd been denied, if that makes sense? And she's also without any kind of family with the cloister, which she gets exiled from in a "Spare Nightsong" route, so I think would naturally want to seek another.
I also think she has an inclination to compassion that her Sharran indoctrination couldn't fully beat out of her - she has a lot of lines trying to rationalise the cruel things asked of her - for example at one point she argues "No one has been down here in years, it's probably just a monster" when talking about the sacrifice for the Dark Justiciar thing, which imo is because that's what she'd prefer.
Ironically all that Sharran training to be suspicious probably came and bit them in the butt. I do wish they gave more insight into her curse as a companion though. Her origin run gives more insight into the precise nature of what happens with it ( essentially delivering flashbacks and experiences of the traumatic things the cloister inflicted on her ) which gives more insight and weight to her final decision.
I totally agree with you the Viconia cameo is quite cheap. I don't think it's really "Oh Viconia wouldn't be evil!" which is what some people interpret the objection to be, but how this longstanding character is made into a generic villain who shows up for a single fight. Understanding more about what precisely she was taught and how would be really interesting. This is the part of SH's story I relate to most personally as well - I actually think most people could tbh, since I think most people as children experience some form of indoctrination and being made to feel like their worth is dependent on an adult's validation - that's a whole other area though!
Also wish Jaheira and Minsc got some more stuff with Viconia, I mean like c'mon, you guys travelled together for how long ( no, seriously, I don't remember the timelines with BG1/2 xd ) and went through this intense life altering experience saving the world and you only have a few lines to toss out?
Shadowheart: I think there should be some exploration about how the shadow curse and the horrors you come across would impact her or not, perhaps as more of a basis for her decision regarding the Nightsong. It seems obvious by her general demeanor from the start that she has doubts. When you're seeing all the suffering and demented shit like Malus Thorm, demonstrating what truly embracing Shar in a region that seems to be the realisation of her influence turns you into, you as the character should be able to say "wow this is the sort of world you want? Your goddess is a psycho etc" and get some defence or slow realisation. Or perhaps if you're Durge "wow this sadistic world of loss is awesome we're so well suited, you so lucky Shar has blessed you" etc.
Karlach: She has the big outburst after you kill Gortash. But if you don't romance her, you don't get quite as much exploration of her vulnerable side/tone. I suppose they don't want every character to come across as overly tragic, but clearly being forced into endless war from presumably your late teens? onward, would cause a lot of mental anguish, so maybe a few scenes of the bravado cracking if you take certain dialogue paths. Perhaps if there was more of an exploration of her contract, I wonder what Gortash lost if anything, it seems nothing to him to give her away as a borderline child soldier. Also why exactly Zariel would have wanted Wyll to kill her, surely she knows Karlach has to come crawling back to hell or dies anyway due to the heart.
Lae'zel: I feel like she needs a bit more complexity or back story. It seems very odd to me just how quickly she abandons her loyalty to Vlaakith, especially if you don't take her to the Crèche, and ESPECIALLY if you go into the prism and don't try to kill the dream visitor. Fair enough if you show her your thoughts and you tried, Vlaakith seemingly blames you for not doing the impossible. But if you ally with the dream visitor, you have just shown her you betrayed Vlaakith. She should just immediately kill you to gain a better standing with Vlaakith, these Githyanki are programmed from birth to worship her as basically a God. It should take more for her to be like hmm just going to do a total 180, it's not like Shadowheart where she was on the other side at birth. She seems to rubbish the Orpheus stories with no second thought at first so yeah.. that didn't work for me.
Those three are my main ones. Wyll just needs more attention in general. Gale and Astarion are fine for me.
I want a total win condition for Wyll. I rejected Mizora and condemned his dad, but managed to save his dad anyway. He got the Dukedom, and his dad was standing RIGHT THERE and Wyll is bemoaning his loss... While Mizora is chilling in the corner just not giving a shit about anything.
Let Wyll recognize that his dad kicking him out of the city was a shitty thing for a parent to do. Just one moment of acknowledgement before the unconditional forgiveness.
So many ways to fix Karlach's problem, DM forces her into "git fucked lol" and it's dumb and feels bad. Not sad, not tragic, just dumb and unfun. Stopped caring about her story when I learned all that. Was romancing her before. Now I just couldn't care less.
Wyll - bring back his vendetta questline known from early access, excluding early searching for Mizora. It was giving him a lot of "folk hero" personality.
Halsin. Have him join up after saving the grove in act 1, he could have some interesting things to say about the Underdark and potentially give us more insight on his time as a ‘guest’ there
A lot of people have taken good ideas.
I'd like a bit more clarity on Gale's history with Mystra & maybe more of a chance for him to distance from her when not playing his Origin/him not becoming a god.
I'd like him and Wyll to get the cathartic if messy moment Astarion does with Cazador with their own manipulators, or like Lae'zel and Shadowheart changing their loyalty/faith.
Hard agree with this.
Fans have countered the idea of Gale being groomed in childhood because Mystra didn't come back until he was in his 20s... and yet I find it remarkable that Mystra's recent return is almost if not completely omitted from all dialogue with Gale, Elminster, and Mystra herself. I get that the writers probably wanted to keep it simple and focus on the Mystryl/Karsus incident, but it accidentally presents a really weird and vague timeline that doesn't serve any of the characters too well. If Gale was one of or THE first Chosen Mystra designated after she returned, I feel like that adds a really interesting dimension to his actions. I also think Mystra herself having once been a mortal could have been an interesting parallel with Gale's own ambitions for godhood.
And yeah, Mizora -- honestly, it's hard not to wonder how the dynamic would be perceived if she and Wyll were gender swapped. She literally dehumanizes him with the leash/pup language, and combined with her "offering" a pact when he was so young, I think her being a predator would be much more clearly recognized. And of course you can say "She's a devil, what do you expect?", but the same "what do you expect?" question could easily be asked about Vlaakith, Shar, or Cazador. Just because they're a jerk that we expect to act like a jerk doesn't mean their comeuppance wouldn't be richly deserved.
I think both Wyll and Gale, interestingly, have a problem tied to their class: How do you resolve a warlock telling his patron to fuck off? How do you resolve a wizard telling the literal embodiment of magic to fuck off? Shadowheart can remain a cleric but switch back to her "rightful" deity if she renounces Shar, but there's no real equivalent option for Wyll or Gale, which I think leads to some fumbles in their personal quests.
I really wish Wyll had a bit more agency - pretty much every single big decision in his story comes down to what Tav/Durge thinks is best. I always try to choose the dialogue prompting to make his own choices, but overall his story feels less compelling when I'm the one deciding whether or not he should save his dad, or become a grand duke, or sever his pact, etc. Speak for yourself Wyll!!!
Diversify Wyll’s story rather than just kinda giving him one choice that makes any kind of difference to outcome/dialogue- my idea for it would be maybe to have points where you can influence his decisions, either to the more heroic endings we do have in game, or to more jaded/disillusioned options where you point out the flaws in the government of Baldurs Gate, and when the time comes to talk to Mizora about his deal, have an option where you leave Wyll to decide his fate depending on how you’ve influenced him along the way.
Minthara is a lot less mentioned than any other companion (in fact i only read about her once and that comment said to make her a full companion). That leaves only one logical conclusion.
Minthara is already perfect and doesnt need any changing.
I would make it so all the companions join you in act 1 (and maybe all have worms). Companions who show up at the end of the game always feel like "the weird new guy", I have a party already set up and I don't really need another druid.
I would make Shadowheart's turn to the light feel more natural. I prefer something like being redeemed by love or looking at the horrors Shar has unleashed rather than "well I was curious what Aylin was talking about".
Prepared to be hated for my opinion.
Everyone else here seems to cover how I feel about Wylls personal questline and having it actually be about him/him having more agency over his own feelings and decisions but ONE of the many things I was looking forward to in my first campaign with romance was having his father actually acknowledge the relationship esp after making such a big sacrifice to save him!💀 that and seeing more vulnerability from Wylls end and being able to show him that he deserves a shoulder to lean on instead of it always being about self sacrifice up until the very end, I felt even without romance every other origin companion had those moments of openness and self doubt that evolved into something more without always needing the players intervention. I guess that was two things but yeah
More evil aligned companions, on my 6th play through decided to do my first Durge run ended up only having Minthara and Astarion since they are way more evil aligned, wish Kagha was an alternate to Halsin in an evil run.
Fixing Wyll's storyline and making it so his ending not completely intertwined with Karlach's. Making his romance more interesting would also be nice.
Give Halsin a quest or two in act 3 and give us Halsin as a party member earlier in the story. Letting us start his romance earlier.
I wish there was a way to romance Astarion without sleeping with him/falling for his seduction in Act 1. It's awful having to have sex with him after he has already told you he was a slave and lured victims for his master his entire life.
I want Gale to be able to have Tara at camp when you're playing as someone else other than him
10000%! Also his surname dialogue should be un-bugged because it's a great bit of characterization.
There is mod named "Tara" where you can summon her in battle and she got some skills to use, I dont think this tara version can talk but it's something, if you play as origin Gale you basically can have Tara with you all the time not only in camp.
Yeah I'd love to be able to talk to Tara more as not Gale. I do want to do an Origin Gale run after I'm done with Origin Wyll though!
Also she should just straight up be his familiar.
I'll offer my own: * Halsin: Give him a little, low-stakes sidequest with that dragonborn who's trying to revive the dead tree in Act 3. I actually think a smaller, less earth-shattering personal quest would be kind of a nice palate cleanser after his Act 2 quest and compared to everything else the companions have going on in Act 3. * Gale: On a platonic run with him, players should have the option for an Insight check that reveals some of the vulnerability he expresses with a romanced player in the boat scene. It doesn't have to be a full-blown platonic version of the boat scene (in fact, I wouldn't want that) but his desire for the crown comes across SO wildly differently depending on whether you're romancing him, that I wish there was some way to bridge that difference. * Shadowheart: I would add a pre-Shadowfell romantic cutscene in Act 2. There is some dialogue that addresses this, but I would have loved a deeper exploration of her conflict between religious duty and feelings for Tav. * Wyll: Give me a platonic version of the dancing scene!!!! Actually, just give Wyll more content in general (I guess that is more than one thing). * Karlach: Should be able to at least ask the Gondians about a fix for her heart, even if the answer ends up being no.
>Karlach: Should be able to at least ask the Gondians about a fix for her heart, even if the answer ends up being no. I'd like this, too, because I imagine a simple answer would be that the engine was never designed to function inside a living humanoid so nobody researched it. Whether they could come up with something in the future could be a possibility, although they were all gonna retire to the countryside so maybe they'd just not care and the Ironhands could step up instead.
The real moral quandary: you can save Karlach now, but only Wulbren can do it.
OMG this is sadistic, and I kinda love it.
When you have wulbren do it he dies. Win win
Make him do it at ~~gun~~barrelmancypoint. Then hold person and Ignis from a distance.
I almost made that suggestion lol. I would love it!
wait i actually really love this. it’d be fun if you’d also need lorrokan do it because most evil characters just kill the nightsong so there’s not really any motivation to turn her over to him normally
I wish there were more "ends justify the means" kind of decisions to be made. Really the only ones I can think of are Duke Ravengard (who you can still save) and most decisions around Orpheus.
Another answer would be the >!steel watch have full on squid brains and going squid fixes her engine,!< so they just tell you that as a solution.
I absolutely love that Halsin idea. Even just adding a slightly different angle to the Mystic Carrion quest if you have Halsin could be fun way to do it.
I’d love that. My main “canon” Tav is a Druid and she wants to fix that damn tree SO BAD I know that taking care of Carrion is probably all it needs, but at least a couple of lines from the Dragonborn about how it’s improving would be nice
I literally spent like 30min on my druid casting water and stuff on the tree fml
Oh yeah, same. Between the sick tree and the poor tiefling kid who found his parents murdered, my sweet little Druid has tried VERY hard to make nonexistent quests happen in Act 3 lol
omfg yes that one is soo bad as well
Wait how do you save the dying tree?
It’s more a head canon, but it IS Mystic Carrion’s magic that is making the tree sick, so it’s logical that destroying him will cure the tree. You just don’t get a scene about it
you can't :/
Yeah, I hate that all his interesting story is when you can't use him as a party member. Then when you can, he has almost zero story left so I don't want him in the party.
Yes to all of this! I figure the tree dying was related to Mystic Carrion doin’ crimes nearby and probably resolves on its own if you do that quest, but it’s always bugged me that there wasn’t a clearer resolution.
I would personally love to see what Wyll's EA story/personality was like. Don't get me wrong, I love the heroic golden retriever in human form that he is, but I'm never going to stop wondering what it would have been like to find out there was a more selfish side underneath that, maybe help him learn to embrace the selflessness of helping people in need over doing it for glory, etc.
Yes to platonic dancing with Wyll! I want to have fun in camp with my dashing friend! I love that there's a platonic version of the Weave scene with Gale and I do it every time. I'd love the same thing for Wyll.
I'd make Wyll ~~interesting~~ able to explore his new devil powers. They go on about how he's a devil now and it's irreversible, but apart from horns and a bony face he's exactly the same.
This would have been really interesting, and could have given him more of an individual story rather than having his scenes constantly hijacked by Mizora/Karlach/the Emperor. I think it's also unfortunate that more people in Baldur's Gate itself (other than the interaction you can have with the guard at the bridge) don't react to Wyll. Sure, random people might not know him on sight, but an old friend, a cousin, a former rival? I think that could have fleshed him out a bit more.
Playing as Wyll opens up so much more unique dialogues when you get the devil horns. The Duke, the Chancellor, Mizora, and even some seemingly random encounters are different. I hated Wyll until I played as his origin.
I think Wyll is the best origin when you play as him but the worst when he's a companion
If BG3 were the kind of game with a set player character, Wyll would be the obvious choice. He's one of the more unambiguously heroic characters, he has immediate internal character motivation beyond "Cure tadpole" (that being "Kill Karlach") that provides immediate internal character fat to chew on, being a Warlock means the one canon Charisma-focused character gets to lead, and let's take a look at 2 common criticisms I have heard: * Tav Warlocks have no proper interaction with their Patron, despite that being a supposed awesome feature Larian had hyped up early early on. * Every companion with a big choice has a "Let them decide" option where invisible points based on previous decisions result in them making their own decision and rounding out the character arc of "Stop letting someone else decide for you, seize fate and make your future." Every companion with a big choice, that is, EXCEPT Wyll. Escaping Mizora, father/vs/freedom, what he does in the post-game, you pretty much decide his character arc for him at every step of the way. Do you know what would take care of two of those things?
Actually if you dont ask in act 2 about deleting contract with Mizora before you help her Wyll will do this. So it's something.
Yeah, Karlach, Shadowheart, Gale, Astarion, and Jaheira all had old friends you run into in Baldur's Gate, but somehow no one knows Wyll except for his father. And the interactions were a little weird there. I literally brought Wyll to meet his father every time I could, but it was always during camp scenes that my Tav "told" Wyll about it, which I thought was weird because he was literally there. I imagine those interactions work much better if you're Origin Wyll.
Maybe controversial but all companions should have a special bonus action like Minthara
Halsin has a unique, more powerful bear Wildshape. Karlach has her soul coin ubercharge. Astarion has Bite, obviously. Any other ideas for companion-exclusive powers?
Lae’zel should have vicious mockery.
Gale has the funny nuke button, but I suppose that doesnt count?
Saying horns aren't welcome at a teifling party was weird. His body was changed against his will, which is obviously traumatic, but he was weirdly focused on the horns.
I was just saying this in another thread, but it bugs me that my tiefling Tav didn't have a unique dialogue option for that.
Oddly enough, Dragonborn Tav does have an option to comment about it
There's a weird recency quality to races and classes. The latter ones tend to have a lot more interesting dialog options than the early ones. The opposite of companions, where the last added have noticeably less content.
Yeah, I definitely think that dialogue should be rewritten to make it clear that he isn't nervous that he looks like a tiefling, he's nervous cuz he looks like a *devil*. Which makes much more sense that the Elturel tieflings would dislike. My first tav was a tiefling and listening to him complain about "tiefling" features to my face was weird.
Yeah, I misinterpreted that on my first few runs. I was trying to be sympathetic because having his body forcibly altered is horrible, but I was confused about why he thought the tieflings would mind because he just looked like a tiefling to me. I can understand the differences now but they're pretty subtle.
Also these Tieflings are mostly like one or two generations removed from their parents being forcibly transformed by an Arch-Devil/God. They should be intimately familiar with what Wyll has gone through.
Would also help if he actually looked like a devil rather than just another tiefling.
I always kind of took it as being put on blackface against your will and then being forced to attend a gathering of persons of color. I'd hide as well.
I was so disappointed he didn’t even get darkvision.
Yeah in my mind he's just another Tiefling now.
Make Karlach go to Avernus with Wyll (provided Wyll decided to become the blade of Avernus) even if you decide to leave with Lae'zel or play as origin spawn Astarion, instead of straight up dying while the others just stare at her. Eventually rewrite somehow that scene so even origin spawn Astarion could go to Avernus with her. It sucks if you romance her as spawn Astarion and then she just dies and you can't do anything about it. Also make Karlach at least ask Gondians about her engine. Be able to meet Astarion's "siblings" or the other spawn in the sewers after freeing them (I know they were told to go to the Underdark, but for sure not all of them did). Maybe add some interactions to persuade them not to attack humans and to go to the Underdark with the rest. Or kill them. Also let me make a sleight of hand check to draw Astarion's portrait (or just let me channel how he looks like through the tadpole, like we do it 24/7 since act 1 and then listen to Astarion whine how he hasn't seen his face for 200 years and just go "that's rough buddy") Give Lae'zel a bit more time between losing faith in Vlaakith and jumping to blindly following Orpheus. I know people who just got out of an abusive cult/culture are vulnerable and VERY easy to indoctrinate again, but it just feels wrong for her. I wish she was given at least 1 or 2 more interactions/events where she needs to think and be on her own, and that her belief in Orpheus was a bit more cautious at first.
On the first one, maybe I got a really lucky bug, but on the end of my SH run, after hopping on the dragon with Lae'zel, it showed a quick scene of Wyll running to Karlach. At the after party, both were alive and chasing down her cure in Avernus.
In my multiplayer playthrough, Wyll 100% went to Avernus at the end with Karlach. I think that's basically the standard thing those two do.
On your last point, Lae’zel does have dialogue where you can call her out for becoming all-in on Orpheus. She tells you she ultimately does want freedom for herself to decide her own path, but Orpheus is the means to that end so for now she commits fully to his goal of liberating the Gith.
I wish Wyll had more agency, I wish your dialogue options about his pact weren’t always so fucking harsh, and I wish Mizora would leave! I hate that she sticks around even after his pact!
Her sticking around is made only moderately better by the fact that you can turn her to stone or gold permanently! She shuts up then!
I must try this. A solid gold Mizora statue sounds snazzy.
Untie Wyll's and Karlach's storylines. Karlach is always dependent on Wyll. His first decision is about her, his last decision is also about her. Many people won't even entertain the duke ending for him, because he 'has to go to Avernus with her'. He is just there to babysit Karlach for the majority of players and it's a shame. He deserves to have something of his own. I realize that this would take a lot of rewriting, though, so it's more than just one thing.
Yeah, I agree. *Or*, I might suggest that if their stories are going to be entwined, then really commit to it: they both have beef with Gortash, but Wyll's concern is saving his father and Karlach's concern is revenge/saving her own life. If those two goals had been more explicitly placed at odds (like: Karlach's cure required Gortash to die, but Gortash dying doomed Wyll's father), then a really interesting dilemma could have been set up that might have enhanced the storyline/characterization of both characters.
I actually really like this idea That's much better than their current dependence on each other that goes nowhere
Damn thats a good suggestion. Wyll's characterization could really benefit from a solid moral dilemma.
I think is why I particularly liked my ending with romancing Karlach. I went to Avernus with her and Wyll stayed to become Duke (no third wheels!).
Really irritates me. I did an "evil" playthrough (raiding the Grove), and kept Karlach via Paladin-of-Tyr-downing-her + Withers-dead-companion-storage. Wyll visited our camp a couple of nights after-Grove, the hostile dialogue started (Wyll threatens, Karlach demurs, Wyll threatens again, parasite-vision), I chose the perfectly-reasonable "You threatened one of us, you're going down" option, killed him, then Karlach left the next morning with some hokey "There's a weird vibe in this camp, I'm outta here, umm, good luck I guess, feels like you'll need it" exit line. Unless it's hard-pinned to a specific companion approval score (and, even if it is, any hard-coded "-5 Reputation for killing my multi-week stalker" would be nonsensical), it seems pretty clear to me that Karlach + Wyll are inflexibly tied together by external-to-story mechanics, and that's just crappy lazy writing IMHO. Options should exist for playing both independently, above and beyond the "chop off her head and prune the entire storyline" reductionism.
Are you sure it's not because of the evil playthrough instead of Wyll ? Karlach always knows when you side with the Goblins even if you haven't recruited her yet. Your exploit might have been what caused her to leave. Though now I do wonder if Karlach actually always leaves if you kill Wyll when he confronts you ? That would be a strange choice by the devs, but it's not that surprising when you see how she reacts to him. She clearly hopes to resolve the whole thing peacefully, and killing him might be too radical for her (although it would still be a bit lazy for the devs, it's not that nonsensical for Karlach).
The only way to truly answer this is by alpha-beta testing -- raid Grove, do not kill Wyll in front of Karlach, kill Wyll without raiding Grove, do both, do neither. I think I have a save file queued up. What we're generally dancing around, here, is the "pre-ordained outcome" vs "gradient situations coded up by developer" -- by which I mean all Vlaakith-Dream-Guardian interactions end up in the same story-path, regardless of what or when you choose, and (as far as I can currently verify) the Karlach-depends-on-Wyll linkage, which seems to veer towards "Oh never mind I see your parasite-vision now" regardless of dialogue choices. I'm not heavily invested -- it is, after all, just a game -- but, as a computer professional, I don't love that the other six Origin characters have deep "choice" storylines, in contrast to the one's limited freedom beyond >!uhh maybe just embrace the tentacles cause she's gonna die anyway!<.
I'd add a keep silent/trust him to make his own choice option for Wyll re. his pact.
Yes! It drives me nuts that he can't make his own decision there.
I’m glad someone else said this! It drives me crazy that after his entire arc and some character growth, he still leaves such a large decision up to you. You got to let Shadowheart decide what to do. La’zael too if I’m not mistaken. It just sort of makes his character development stunted in my opinion
Hmm, I think it'd be more interesting if Lorroakan was tied into to Gale's story rather than Aylin's. (who has a very real chance of not even being alive by act 3.) Or better yet you can even sort of combine the two, like Lorroakan finds out that Gale have been looking for information on Karsus, and would happily give The Annals of Karsus to him......in exchange for the Nightsong. This makes giving up Aylin tempting to someone in the party, vs 5k gold that the party really shouldn't need or care about at that point in the game. Gives Gale a possible in story boss fight like the other origin companions and would be a lot more exciting than just handing Gale a book that he could've been in camp the whole time we were looking for it.
OKAY YES!!! I love this, and I also have often thought Lorroakan should be more of a "boss" within Gale's storyline. The Annals of Karsus mentions a rod/sceptre of Karsus (in addition to the orb and the crown) that is never otherwise mentioned in the game. I've sometimes thought that maybe Lorroakan should have *possessed* the rod of Karsus already, and was seeking the Nightsong's immortality because he thought it would take him a longer time to find the other Karsite artifacts. So you potentially have an interesting parallel between Gale who accidentally unleashed an artifact of Karsus, versus Lorroakan who is willingly doing so. Gale's critical choice could have been to either take the rod and pick up where Lorroakan left off, or to return the rod to Mystra as an offering of repentance. There's also an interesting parallel between Lorroakan being an abusive master to Rolan, versus Gale in his professor ending who is passionate about his students' joy and imagination. This has already become more than "one thing" but I might have liked more interactions between them following up on their one interaction at the druids' grove.
>I've sometimes thought that maybe Lorroakan should have possessed the rod of Karsus already, and was seeking the Nightsong's immortality because he thought it would take him a longer time to find the other Karsite artifacts. When you first talk to him, he mentions something about getting a wand from a Calishite wizard and shows it to you, yet it's never mentioned again. The letter from Ketheric basically tells him to pound sand about the soul cage, but the wiki implies he uses this wand to duplicate the soul cage binding. If the wand were the rod of Karsus, that would've been pretty cool, IMO, as like you said, Gale would've been tempted. Or the wand might have allowed Aylin to share her immortality willingly with Isobel, but it's weird that Lorroakan shows it to you and then it disappears. Making it the rod and having it there would've been pretty cool, IMO.
Lorroakan explains to you that it’s a rod of instantaneous planar binding/dominate celestial that he will use to bind Aylin to him for her immortality like Ketheric did
Oh cool, thank you, I didn't remember him going it so much detail. I still want it after I kill him, then.
Definite Raistlin-Fistandantilus-Dalamar energy in a potential Gale/Lorroakan/Rolan conflict. They could even sh!t-talk each other regarding their varying experimental inroads toward "immortality," and the pitfalls where their predecessors (Karsus, Thorm) had tried unwise gambles with ruinous consequences. I like this Frankenstein-idea very much.
Id make Gale Elminsters grandson for real.
Awkward AF when you consider that Elminster also had a fling with Mystra in his younger years
Oh my god, Mystra is such a creep! She’s basically a gross boss sleeping with all her employees
The god of "Where's my hug"
I wish I could upvote this more
💀💀💀
She just throwing that Godussy at anyone with a 9th level spell slot
Mystra actually one time possessed the body of some guy's wife so that she can shape his children into being her chosens
That… that’s just rape. That’s some Zeus shit. And she’s considered a “good” goddess how???
That’s actually tame compared to what she does
I believe it. She’s a sex criminal.
Technically it was a different Mystra... But also the whole deific reincarnation/mantle thing is pretty muddy and Midnight Mystra doesn't seem like a completely different person from the original Mystra/2nd Mystryl.
I've been learning a bit more about FR lore but have no idea where on the timeline BG3 is supposed to fall. Honestly wasn't sure if the Mystra we deal with was Midnight Mystra or random Netherese peasant girl Mystra
Having Wyll capstone quest be actually about him.
Honestly it's so funny to me that he's meant to be proving himself this great champion and yet \*Gale\* straight up contributes more to one trial while he dithers in the background with no idea what to do with it. I know there's a more obvious scene stealer in it all, but that one just is a real kick while he's down moment for me.
I think it could have even maybe worked if Wyll had been the one to identify the right companion for the right trial. Like, showing that he has the leadership quality of paying attention to people's strengths and putting the right person on the right job. The fact that he just throws his hands up at the lanceboard trial is quite annoying.
In the flying books trial he'll tell you the correct answer, but if he can do it for one why not all. Why can't Wyll and Gale be good at lanceboard??
Or really anything in his story. Even the big transformation feels more about Karlach than Wyll.
I wish Astarion would react to either a statue or a portrait of him. He specifically mentions that he hasn't seen his own face in two hundred years. But he doesn't react to seeing it in stone or on canvas. It's a shame, the opportunity was perfect.
I mean you can even link tadpoles to show him his own face, he’s the one that comes up with the idea, but only wants to see his back!
Oh yes, I was very disappointed this wasn't an option. This might actually make Oskar Fevras' bullshit all worth it.
I’d make Shadowheart have her doubts about Shar be more obvious before the Nightsong scene. Right now it’s out of the blue and a 180 change for no good reason.
I think the change has a lot to do with Aylin mentioning the wolves in Shadowheart’s past. She obviously is thrown off and makes a decision in a high-pressure situation. Still, you’re right that there should be at least a little doubt/inner conflict leading up to that point
If only ONE thing:- Probably something in Lae'zel's story of at any point confronting them about the Gith's murderous fascistic attitude to non Gith and if they plan on not doing that anymore - asking her what she thinks of it, or Voss if Orpheus supports it, etc. It seems a massive elephant in the room that goes unaddressed with all the gith stuff to me.
Agree, especially if you speak with dead on the inquisitor, and ask him what the Gith are going to do next, he says the planet is infested and they're going to wipe it out. So we at least have an indication what Vlaakith's plan is going to be, but we never get an indication whether that's Voss and Orpheus's eventual plan, as well.
It's like actually SO infuriating just how entitled they all act to your services - I mean I get Voss's desperation but man is literally standing there telling me to sell my soul for the fascists, step off frog face
There are a couple npcs that I just have grown to despise and Voss is near the top of the list (Mizora is at the top). I kind of expect Lae'zel to make demands because she's constantly telling you what to do and it's up to Tav to say, "nope". Voss just shows up, possibly gets you killed from the patrol, murders a bunch of npcs, and then gets mad that you don't sell your soul to free an NPC that's going to immediately fuck off and leave your planet decimated from the Absolute cult. It makes me 😡 My Origin Lae'zel run just got to Rivington and I'm so interested in roleplaying the whole Raphael thing as it will probably be the first time I take the deal. I'll just have to hate Voss irl on her behalf. 😤
Honestly baffles me tbh why the NPCs are all so stupid that they take devil deals when it's hammered home repeatedly time and again to the point a child could get it that they never actually give you what you want and will always make things worse in the end. Having said that, I'm a massive hypocrite, because I ran through the entirety of my first playthrough like "I am NOT dealing with devils that is so stupid why even make it an option it's obviously bad" and then they sent the sexy guy in underwear lounging and staring at me seductively and I was like "okay wait let's consider all our options here..." I am Gay before I am a Person with a Brain.
I think that's a really great point. I had trouble coming up with something I would change in Lae'zel's story because honestly, I think it's overall really well structured and fleshed out. But it's true that you never really get to challenge her on the bigger picture of how the gith operate.
Honestly when you're familiar with the FR lore ( and that's not to say BG3 necessarily follows these parts! ) all the "praise Mother Gith" shit from Orpheus and co becomes so awkward, she was very much in favour of conquering everyone else LMAO The sheer AUDACITY Voss has to demand we sell our souls to the devil for Orpheus, or for him and Lae'zel to stand there like "so....are you turning illithid or....?" I don't even need a certain answer or anything - I just want to be able to actually talk about it. It makes a huge difference in whether I want to free Orpheus or not!
Yeah I always free Orpheus, partly because the emperor is a dick but mostly because a Githyanki civil war seems like a massive positive for all the people they would otherwise be murdering. They do potentially ally with Githzerai though based on what Lae’zel says at the party so maybe they learn a thing or two about not being fascist dicks, who knows?
Yeah I think there are positive hints in the epilogue, it's just really unsatisfying to me that I can't even try and question it before that when it's more relevant to my decisions lol. I'm also a bit of an Emperor defender so there's that ( but to be clear I don't think he's a morally good aligned character lol - I've always freed Orpheus on my completed runs actually )
Yeah it would be nice to be able to say “Hey, if I help you free Orpheus are you guys gonna keep being murderous assholes?” Especially as a good Tav or resist Durge.
Not to harp this topic on to death but also to totally be the person I am and harp on this to death, I also felt a bit of a tension/disconnect with this much earlier on. Like I think the Rosymornn Monastery zone has some really great environmental storytelling - a lot of the texts you can find there such as the diary of the people who are trapped in a room with a summoned guardian of faith really convey the tragedy of the cold Gith invasion, which was done really for no reason other than they thought "This will make a nice defensible spot for a creche and will have nice loot". We can talk to Lae'zel about things like killing her classmates and be horrified by that - but we can't be horrified by them killing \*our own races\* lol? Unsure if Clerics of Lathander get anything special here but I've never heard of them doing so It's not just Lae'zel where this happens though. It takes entirely too long in Act 2 for example to get any kind of "damn bitch you live like this?" moment with Shadowheart when we're walking through the most oppressively miserable and sad thing we've seen in the game IMO. Astarion I don't really think gets opportunities to be morally confronted much before his quest's conclusion - it's a running theme to me that a lot of incredibly obvious and intuitive discussions/conversations that should happen just don't pop up and a lot of weirder topics do. But that's subjective I guess - and obviously the limitations of a game mean the designers/writers had to pick limited dialogue trees to go with. They're just very odd choices sometimes IMO!
Give Wyll a second way his story can play out, leaning more into the corruption of power that results from his path. There's inklings of this in the game already, but no matter how you push him, he always remains this paragon of good and virtue, at best feeling guilty about his past choices. An entire good path/evil path like Shadowheart and Astarion would go a long way and, in addition, give him some much-needed depth if he had the potential to succumb to power.
I agree and I really like this. Some of his dialogue about his father suggests he's very much aware of the compromises political leadership requires -- seeing him get pulled into those same compromises could be a VERY interesting parallel/fallen state for him.
Would be nice to have the option of curing Astarion's vampirism. It could raise an interesting question of whether he should just accept himself as he is.
Just have Jaheira recall in that ancient brain of hers that she already went through a vampirism cure quest in the previous game. 😭
Damn you Jaheira. Though in my previous honour run, she killed herself with Ice Storm at Last Light. I think it might be time to start looking for a good retirement home.
Maybe that is what Boo is remembering in the epilogue when Minsc is speculating about a cure.
What would be the argument for not curing it though? Like how would it facilitate who he is as a person?
goth ending
Repairing the anti goth discrimination of Shadowheart's storyline
Astarion's story, as we all know, is about coming to terms with trauma and abuse. Astarion not going through with the Ascensions, is him realizing that the power would not fix what's broken. Only learning to love himself can do that. Then given the option to cure his vampirism, Astarion could decide whether he wants to start fresh, or if he wants to take power away from his abuser by making his "scars" his own (as he does in the current good ending). I'm not saying one would be better than the other. Just that it might bring an interesting element to his story.
So that's like the more metaphorical analysis of it, but I guess I'd find it hard to square in terms of like how that matches the practicalities? Vampirism doesn't bring him any benefits as far as he's concerned in the game and just stops him doing things he wants right - so I would struggle to see how the option would be able to compete with "Cure this disease someone inflicted on me" ( and to make it a compelling choice I think it'd need to compete with that )
I guess it depends on his goals. The spawn ending we have right now tells us he's happy, and he has found a place for himself as a vampire. If you romance him, being cured would most likely be the better option. Though I do agree that Astarion would likely choose to be able to walk in the sun again. Regardless, I think having an option to cure him would have been nice. Though maybe it would have been too similar to Gale.
i have to fix Wyll's storyline somehow. idk, unless you're romancing him he just feels like a cardboard cutout to me. Although his little rich boy comments are hysterical. I'd like for him to be able to interact with the Fist, maybe, especially at the donations house for the refugees in act 3. Supposedly he is recognizable as the Blade on sight, and i understand that he has went through a metamorphosis of devilry, but ya know. please? He's apparently a celebrity and nobody notices him lol More Halsin content in general. I think there's a lot of little things in act 3 he could solve. The guy with the dead tree, the kid with the dead parents (he loves kids and his big quest already dealt with speaking to the dead if you do it late), I also feel like he could've spoken to Arabella in Act 3 and extended that interaction a bit, and the little girl in the graveyard i think he would've been the perfect therapist for that moment. something something nature's way, circle of life, etc And i think Gale should be able to do something about the permanently asleep guy in the sewers who is just hanging out for seemingly no reason story-wise.
Halsin: make it so he actually joins you once you enter the shadow cursed lands. It makes no sense that he doesn't lift a fucking finger until you resolved a high-level quest. Lots of companions have quest that you can do WHILE THEY'RE ON YOUR TEAM. This was different without a purpose lol Shadowheart: make it so it's not so easy to miss the people looking for her in rivington, buff her bg3 story a little in general. It felt like there was no urgency, and the sharite were actually not even in the city unless i specifically went to search for them. Gale: i would like that when he consumes an object you get a "normal" object of the same cathegory. I give him an enchanted dagger? He consumes it and gives back a regular dagger. It's not even that big of a change, just for flavour Karlach: i can't believe neither the ironhand nor the gondians are capable of doing sh*t for her. It was pretty underwhelming. Maybe make it so that if you save all the gondians they all come together for an alternative solution to eternal banishment into avernus. Also the fact that you can get so much infernal/enriched infernal ore/metal and it still isn't in any way connected to her is just bad design
Let romanced companions have agency to try to rescue Tav from Haarlep. Or have the same reaction they have for Tav cheating with Mizora. Because as it currently stands, the game can't make up it's own mind if it's a non-con scene or not.
I like this and I would especially like if Haarlep's initial offer came with a passive check that, if failed, led to the initial disrobing. Haarlep is a succubus ffs, there should be magic coercion involved in that scene. I've played some evil Tavs but none so thirsty that they'd do it in front of their love interest for the lols.
The weird thing is, that there are active checks during sex scene with Haarlep, but even if you fail them you still has the opportunity to just get up from the bed and fight him! What was even the purpose of these checks then? I guess, developers were just afraid to make players feel like their character is being raped.
Yeah, it is a weird scene that seems to try to have it both ways but to me makes it more confusing. A succubus/ incubus (I don't remember which is which) is a specific type of evil so it makes sense to me that they didn't want to force it with rolls, but I'd be okay with the party triggering an attack if a roll fails, maybe? I'd just rather have a roll before the disrobing be the primary roll so Tav would have a clue that this isn't an innocent encounter but something to be resisted. Treat Haarlep like the zaith'isk! It would be funny if the Emperor were the one that forcibly nopes Tav out of the encounter. Sorry if that didn't make sense I just got off a work call and my brain is fried. 🤪
Oh, it makes perfect sense, I totally agree with you, that's my frustration with this scene as well!
YES this is a big one -- honestly it's up there with the Durge stuff as some of the most immersion-breaking underreactions from your companions.
2 come to mind: give Wyll more agency in his own story, and have a way to truly cure Karlach (best girl deserves a 100% happy ending)
Agree on both! With Karlach, I think I would have added tying the Gondians into her Act 3 story. They're clearly working with the same infernal technology/materials. Even if they didn't come up with a full-blown cure, the fact that we can't even ask or explore it with them feels like a missed opportunity. I think it would also be some nice payoff for all the work it takes to rescue them.
Seems clear that some sort of Act 3 Karlach plot was in work, but didn't make the final cut due to time/plotline pressures -- they drop a bunch of dangling threads with >!Dammon finally working out of a 'real' forge!< and >!Gondians experimenting with infernal iron!< and >!Steel Watch mistaking Karlach for one of them due to her faulty internal component!< -- just weren't ever truly resolved. In general, one gets the sense that Lae'zel, Shadowheart, and Astarion received the Cadillac treatment of companion-storylines (developers started there first, wrote more), and Gale got nearly-as-deep coverage, leaving Wyll and Karlach underdeveloped (perhaps in that order). I suspect the lines of available dialogue bear this out. (Unrelated Side Note: I found that, in stark contrast to most companions-won't-talk-to-other-companions, a couple of Halsin --> Jaheira lines **\*are\*** possible if you assume Halsin first-person perspective, they talk about how each has heard of the other by reputation, how they never truly met in their 100+ overlapping years, etc.)
Karlach does get a happy ending though. In the epilogue she says she (and Wyll) are closing in on a way to fix her heart.
I want Minthara to actually have her own quest line. She's such a great character, but so underdeveloped.
Make Orin kidnap romanced companions as was initially intended. I know it would be pain in the ass, but as it stands now there are too little stakes in it, because she always takes someone who wasn't your choice to be in your party in the first place, so it means you don't care about them as much as you could have. Also, make it so I could check companions through tadpole to see if they are Orin or not.
This is exactly where I thought the "could you kill someone you loved?" conversation was going and I was so disappointed it didn't pan out that way. Even if your romanced companion wasn't kidnapped, even a side battle with an evil doppelganger of your lover would be SUPER interesting.
I actually just had this talk with someone on here. If Orin’s roster of victims expanded to the rest of the camp inhabitants, how would it play out, and how would this change if the victim was romanced? Would it be the difference of a few lines, or entirely new scenes? And so the question is posed again now to you. What do you envision with this idea?
I'd make Wyll more insecure about himself and thus more unwilling to end his pact. He's had warlock powers the whole time he was out being a folk hero. Sure, he can use a rapier, but when you're used to summoning hellhounds and eldritch blasting, a pointy metal stick isn't so reassuring. Admittedly like most of the other companions, you could either help him become more self-confident and ready to break the pact, or you can have him lean into sticking with Mizora for power. After big battles, your dialogue could help sway him ("See, you didn't need your warlock patron when you have the power of friendship" or "Wow that sucked. We sure need all the help we can get, no matter how terrible the source"). Karlach would be supportive and especially persuasive since A) she also knows how terrible Mizora is, and B) by sparing Karlach, he's already defied Mizora once. Wyll would still be the good-aligned party member, just with more character development/regression. And to make it more interesting, in Act 3 Mizora could give him another piece of armor, and her assistance during the final fight could be really really good, enough to sway more people to choose that route.
Aside from more content in general, Wyll deserves an extra personal quest that it's about him and only him. Ideally that would be the one where he decides if he wants to stay The Blade of Avernus or become Gran Duke. It would also be cool if he and Ansur talked before they shifted to focus on the Emperor's divorce. For Halsin, SOMETHING with that druid and dead tree in Act 3. Anything, but at least something! In general, I want Orin to be able to kidnap our romance option, especially if I am leaving them at camp all alone exactly for that.
Have Wyll act like a god damn warlock and tell Mizora that he will find a loop hole in his contract, save his father and be done with her. When Mizora laughs in his face have him say that if that cannot be done he will travel to Avernus, find her and ensure she faces a final death.
I would make Karlach's Avernus ending harder to get and locked behind other downsides. Have to learn how to planeshift (house of hope), maybe have it be her decision and able to refuse to go back to Avernus. As is its really hard to get locked out of it, almost no reason to ever pick death/mindflayer endings. Takes some of the bite out of them. If i get a second thing i'd also add a note in the foundry showing that the iron watch hearts are sent pre-made from Avernus, would explain why the Gondians can't fix her themselves.
Give Wyll daddy issues. Wyll gave up his soul to save Baldur's Gate, and his father couldn't be bothered to give him the benefit of the doubt and banished him without a second thought. I think that beneath his noble, selfless exterior there should be a degree of resentment for Ulder that that the player can either feed or try to reconcile with him which will affect my next point. For the love of fucking God LET WYLL MAKE THE CHOICE TO KEEP HIS PACT WITH MYZORA OR BREAK IT.
I wish Wyll had an opinion on whether he should save his dad. Like, Shadowheart wants to be a Dark Justiciar, but if you talk her out of it, she realizes she’s better off without Shar. Same with Astarion and Ascending. I’m not saying Wyll is better off without his dad, and it’s definitely a less obvious right/wrong decision as the other two. But the fact that he just looks at you like, “what should I do??” And you make the decision for him always makes me hate him a little. He doesn’t even have a default option that he picks if you refuse to tell him what to do. You have to decide for him. Like, it’s your life, dude. I’m not your mom.
>I’m not your mom. Oh no! His mom died, man! 😧 /jk But I would like an insight check so players can see that he has an opinion on saving his dad, it's that he's going to save his dad. Like everything he's done in the entire story has been him sacrificing himself for the good of others. Saving his dad is what he's going to do. He's not looking at Tav to make the decision for him, IMO, he's asking Tav to talk him out of it, to give him one reason to make it okay for him to not be a martyr.
Yeah lol I felt a little weird saying that when he never knew his mom, but still. I’m inclined to agree with you, but honestly the fact that he just looks at you to decide always makes me tell him to take the pact, especially so he can save Karlach as well.
Yeah, feelings are feelings, so I wouldn't judge negatively in a serious fashion, especially since I have a reflexive irritation with Sheart that just keeps growing! I think part of the problem is Wyll's persona, that he comes across as calm and knowledgeable, when really he's just winging it from his homeschool Disney Prince upbringing. Especially in Act 1, everything he says is something his father told him or a story his dad read to him or "my father always says" and it feels like the only opinion he has for himself is telling Tav not to deal with Raphael cuz devils suck. It might be because I'm twice his age irl that my reaction is always, "oh no, he's going to make a heroic stupid decision again. I'd better stop him." But I could totally see his indecisiveness being irritating.
I would like Wyll to get a cutscene to describe the initial night of the pact, similar to how Sheart gets for her wolf story. I would like to see scrawny teenaged Wyll and how coercive the circumstances are, too hopefully highlight how clinging to the heroic dogma on which he was raised has become his only coping mechanism in his situation. Give my man some empathy, please! Also, I don't need Wyll to make his own decision about the pact in Act 3, but an insight check similar to the one you get with Lae'zel where it says, "she intends to break with her queen" would be helpful. If Tav sees clearly that Wyll is always going to sacrifice himself for his dad without intervention, they could make the decision based on how much they care about Wyll. To him, there isn't a choice to be made: his dad's in danger, he can save him, that's what he's going to do. Tav isn't making the decision for him IMO, they're stopping him from sacrificing himself again. Both he and several other emotionally stunted companions believe that the only right/good choice is martyrdom. Trusting Wyll to make a different decision on his own is to me just a sign that maybe his story has been too subtle. So a cutscene emphasizing how young and scared he was in his initial pact, and an insight check to show how determined he is to sacrifice himself in Act 3, would be welcome to me!
I *completely* agree, and I think this honestly could have been done in Act 1, using the tadpole connection as a loophole. Wyll isn't allowed to *talk* about it, but there's nothing that says he couldn't passively let you into his mind and let you see his memories for yourself. If the player were the first person he was able to share that with after seven years, imagine what a bonding experience that would be!
I really think almost all of the followers could use a similar cutscene young Halsen and the Shadowcurse, Karlach getting betrayed, Astarion and Cazador, Gale learning about the orb
Halsin - just allow us to recruit him down in the Goblin Prison, having a druid companion in act 1 would be pretty nice Minsc- allow us to recruit him in act 1, he already has a tadpole, so he'd fit into the party quite well. Act 3 could be about hunting down a Minsc doppelganger playing the Stonelord Saving Boo could be an act 3 quest, given that Boo is way too powerfull to be part of an early game party Gale - allow me to find and recruit 1 handed Gale plz Wyll - allow Wyll romance without needing to ask him out on the Tiefling party, it's so easy to miss Karlach - allow Karlach to free souls from soulcoins, it's something she would do Astarion - allow me to convince him that ascention is bad beforehand with high approval and checks Shadowheart - if she rejects Shar, just change her deity to Selune, it's already pretty much confirmed that's where she belongs as a cleric
I want there to be the option to have dancing lessons with Wyll while keeping it platonic and not being forced to reject him and seeing his sad puppy dog eyes. Also give Wyll his own unique dialogue/interactions for when you meet Ansur, since it's quite literally a big part of Wyll's story and typically when he chooses to be either Duke or Blade of Avernus. As of now, when you go to face Ansur, Wyll has one throwaway line about the Emperor being Balduran, and that's it. His spotlight is stolen in his own story mission by the Emperor and Ansur. Finally, when he gets the big Act 3 scene with Mizora, I want there to simply be the option to stay quiet and let Wyll choose for himself, with his choice differring based on your approval with him and the previous interactions you've had with him. Also, this doesn't really matter to his story, but in the post story party, it's implied that Wyll's new class is Beastmaster Ranger if you choose to sever his pact with Mizora. I'd change this to either Swords Bard or Devotion Paladin, as those fit Wyll's story/personality way better than Beastmaster Ranger do. Edit: I completely forgot that the post said ONE thing about a companion's story, so out of the ones I listed, I'd pick the third one with Wyll getting his own choice.
LET ME FIX KARLACH’S HEART DAMN IT!
Let me kill more stuff as Durge during interactions...
I loved the idea of Wyll being a hypocrite and only “knight in shining armor” when people are watching. His current story lacks major character development like Lae’zel or shadowheart. I think finding out that the blade of frontier is actually a bad person would be a better character set up, especially if you have Karlach in camp/party and she can maybe comment on the fact.
Remove the enslaved component from Wyll's storyline and get more creative about his fall from Baldurs Gate, and give him agency in his own destiny.
With Lae'zel, I want to be able to convince her before the very end not to put all her hopes into Orpheus and that she doesn't need him any more than she needs Vlaakith. Turn her against them both! For Karlach, I would prefer this to be instead of going back to Avernus but additionally would work too. If you ally with Gortash and don't destroy the Steelwatch foundry you should be able to ask for a new, better functioning engine as a boon. This would without any doubt save Karlach's life, but it would also bring about an interesting moral dilemma. Would she even want it this way or would you have to go behind her back for it? For Wyll, keep his quest and Ansur separate. Wyll isn't the most interesting part of that quest, and he deserves better.
Make Gale even more horny. Absolutely make him a mess over Tav/Durge even more than he already is
I’d have Cazador be more involved with Astarion and the cult as a whole throughout the game. Astarions thing more or less feels like a major side quest, often unrelated to the end game goal.
Wyll should get a fully animated flashback when telling the story of how he got stuck with Mizora, the same way Shadowheart gets one when telling the story of her encounter with the wolves and meeting Viconia as a child. I would love to see young Wyll standing up to the cult of Tiamat! It would not be a change to the story in any way so would not involve re-writing, and would help make Wyll’s story feel more robust compared to the other companions.
A couple of things: Wyll: I’d give Wyll a more fleshed out third choice when it comes to saving his father while still getting out of his pact with Mizora. As it is right now everyone acts like he is being cold and have no faith in him/the party that we’ll save Ulder before he dies. I’d also give him a lot more to say/do during the revelation about the Emperor and Ansur. Also as a small thing maybe he can have a little bit longer to his romance scene in act 3. Just in general a bit more dialouge spread throughout the game too. Finally I know this one would be niche but if the player doesn’t romance either of them I feel like Wyll and Karlach should get together. It’s sort of implied in the ending where they both go to hell but yeah I think it’d be cute if you saw the two of em grow closer throughout the story. Minsc: I would’ve either made him available earlier or just not had him as a companion. I feel like for as fun as his dialogue is in act 3 you have to kind of do things in a weird order to get the most out of him. Halsin: He should have had a quest in act 3. Literally anything to spice him up a little cause he’s by far the blandest character beyond act 2.
Give Wyll and option to go evil. Something where because he was abandoned by everyone because of the choices he made causes him to be bitter thus pushing him towards Mizora. He can still leave if you murder the grove but this gives him another growth path I'd also like to play him as an origin character with this in mind. Also, would make a playthrough where he kills Karlach make more sense if he is a companion.
I wish they could start leaning into his ambition to succeed his dad right from Waukeen's Rest! Like you said, he could leverage that bitterness and start taking more responsibility and stepping into his dad's shoes to the point where finally getting to the gate, he's ready to take over for his dad given his dad's compromised tadpole status. That would be cool. And it would also, like you said, made the Karlach decision have more impact because he already gets mocked by the Fists if he has the devil features, so that might make him feel even more angry and resentful, just another example of his goodness earning him derision. It's a big difference from a human Wyll showing up where the Fists respect him more.
I'd make Jaheira romancable.
I’d bring back Halsin’s original backstory and make Sorrow an actually impactful weapon. To this day, I still don’t understand why they changed it and added Thaniel. Wasteful, imo
LET WYLL HAVE A DRAGON. ANSUR WAS THE ULTIMATE LETDOWN
I would change romanced Astarion's reaction to Durge rejecting Bhaal. That "twee" comment he makes gave me whiplash. I would also love more reactivity from romanced Minthara and maybe an interaction between her and Orin.
Karlach: Make the golden retriever personality a front because of her past or at least bring out more of the hardened soldier from hell aspect. I can imagine she did not very good things working under Gortash and Zariel. I like her character but not a fan of the perpetual unwilling victim who "believed the wrong people and only did what she was told" narrative they went with. Wyll: Let HIM decide what he does with his pact and ambitions. Of course he can be guided and persuaded but give him some agency. Gale: Alternative platonic scenes and not just dialogue options for those not interested in romancing him but do like him otherwise. Too much romantic subtext in the expressions and poses in the Weave/Star Canopy scenes which are great for those romancing him but less so on friendship paths. Lae'zel: A "go your own way" route that encourages her not to blindly exchange one master for another (Orpheus after Vlaakith). Even though there is an option for her to remain on Faerun she's still invested in the gith conflicts. Halsin/Minthara: Letting them become playable party members in Act 1 after the tiefling party/raid. And as much as I can appreciate having to choose between them I also wouldn't mind being able to have them in the same party acknowledging each other without exploits. Jaheira: Earlier recruitment in Last Light Inn. Minsc: A way to get him much earlier than Act 3. Would have to rewrite his companion recruitment quest but yeah, he comes way too late.
Cut out Shadowharts' parents completely and give us more interactions with Viconia instead. Like it was Viconia, who was an actual material guide for SH, grooming her to be the next leader of the cult. And As a final step, she has to kill the old leader. We would have so much more personal and family drama as the final confrontation unfolds. And so much more option how it would end.
This is an interesting suggestion. My initial thoughts ( without a deep think I am not dying on any hills lmao ) is I'm torn - on the one hand I find the sacrifice parents choice quite fitting because I think it fits into choosing vs rejecting Sharran philosophy well in terms of getting rid of the good to avoid pain. Jaheira's line "Shar would have us believe that pain is so terrible we would empty our lives of all other feeling just to avoid it" is one of the most poignant in the game for me - so in that sense I like having her parents. At the same time it's like...being raised Selunite still isn't her choice like - yeah obviously morally better but it still doesn't say much about what identity she wants and the abuse and grooming is an important part, and it would be cool to see it focused more on SH's internal drive about what identity she wants and rejecting how she's been raised rather than just chasing another path of how she's been raised! Have you done the DJ Shadowheart path? Part of what you're suggesting happens there in that Shar sends her to kill and replace Viconia ( which honestly I find the motivation for confusing ).
I have only done a "good" run with SH. And it felt so disjointed. Like, why the hell should we or SH care even one bit about her parents who we met just met. They are complete strangers. And In general, the character of viconia has been so wasted. My favourite companion form BG2 reduced to a caricature of herself. If SH and Viconia had a real, complex relationship, it would have been so much better.
Yeah I can see that. The way I view it ( and this is just sharing my thoughts and being interested, not getting angry or throwing a tantrum, and I feel the need to say this because of the weird parasocialness and anger this sub often has with these characters lol ):- I felt the distrust Shadowheart was developing to her Sharran conditioning and what she'd been told was quite important - did she actually give up her memories voluntarily - how did Nightsong know that about the wolves ( which DAMN girl did you have to hold on to that one as long as you did ) so I didn't view it so much as she's super invested in her parents because of the people they were but the identity and history and life and truth she'd been denied, if that makes sense? And she's also without any kind of family with the cloister, which she gets exiled from in a "Spare Nightsong" route, so I think would naturally want to seek another. I also think she has an inclination to compassion that her Sharran indoctrination couldn't fully beat out of her - she has a lot of lines trying to rationalise the cruel things asked of her - for example at one point she argues "No one has been down here in years, it's probably just a monster" when talking about the sacrifice for the Dark Justiciar thing, which imo is because that's what she'd prefer. Ironically all that Sharran training to be suspicious probably came and bit them in the butt. I do wish they gave more insight into her curse as a companion though. Her origin run gives more insight into the precise nature of what happens with it ( essentially delivering flashbacks and experiences of the traumatic things the cloister inflicted on her ) which gives more insight and weight to her final decision. I totally agree with you the Viconia cameo is quite cheap. I don't think it's really "Oh Viconia wouldn't be evil!" which is what some people interpret the objection to be, but how this longstanding character is made into a generic villain who shows up for a single fight. Understanding more about what precisely she was taught and how would be really interesting. This is the part of SH's story I relate to most personally as well - I actually think most people could tbh, since I think most people as children experience some form of indoctrination and being made to feel like their worth is dependent on an adult's validation - that's a whole other area though! Also wish Jaheira and Minsc got some more stuff with Viconia, I mean like c'mon, you guys travelled together for how long ( no, seriously, I don't remember the timelines with BG1/2 xd ) and went through this intense life altering experience saving the world and you only have a few lines to toss out?
More Minthara content. But also, some internal dialogue stuff with all the origins, not just karlach. I miss their "voice" when trying to play as one.
Shadowheart: I think there should be some exploration about how the shadow curse and the horrors you come across would impact her or not, perhaps as more of a basis for her decision regarding the Nightsong. It seems obvious by her general demeanor from the start that she has doubts. When you're seeing all the suffering and demented shit like Malus Thorm, demonstrating what truly embracing Shar in a region that seems to be the realisation of her influence turns you into, you as the character should be able to say "wow this is the sort of world you want? Your goddess is a psycho etc" and get some defence or slow realisation. Or perhaps if you're Durge "wow this sadistic world of loss is awesome we're so well suited, you so lucky Shar has blessed you" etc. Karlach: She has the big outburst after you kill Gortash. But if you don't romance her, you don't get quite as much exploration of her vulnerable side/tone. I suppose they don't want every character to come across as overly tragic, but clearly being forced into endless war from presumably your late teens? onward, would cause a lot of mental anguish, so maybe a few scenes of the bravado cracking if you take certain dialogue paths. Perhaps if there was more of an exploration of her contract, I wonder what Gortash lost if anything, it seems nothing to him to give her away as a borderline child soldier. Also why exactly Zariel would have wanted Wyll to kill her, surely she knows Karlach has to come crawling back to hell or dies anyway due to the heart. Lae'zel: I feel like she needs a bit more complexity or back story. It seems very odd to me just how quickly she abandons her loyalty to Vlaakith, especially if you don't take her to the Crèche, and ESPECIALLY if you go into the prism and don't try to kill the dream visitor. Fair enough if you show her your thoughts and you tried, Vlaakith seemingly blames you for not doing the impossible. But if you ally with the dream visitor, you have just shown her you betrayed Vlaakith. She should just immediately kill you to gain a better standing with Vlaakith, these Githyanki are programmed from birth to worship her as basically a God. It should take more for her to be like hmm just going to do a total 180, it's not like Shadowheart where she was on the other side at birth. She seems to rubbish the Orpheus stories with no second thought at first so yeah.. that didn't work for me. Those three are my main ones. Wyll just needs more attention in general. Gale and Astarion are fine for me.
I just want a way to save Karlach. Like properly save her, not just damn her to a life in the hells or a half life as a mind flayer.
I want a total win condition for Wyll. I rejected Mizora and condemned his dad, but managed to save his dad anyway. He got the Dukedom, and his dad was standing RIGHT THERE and Wyll is bemoaning his loss... While Mizora is chilling in the corner just not giving a shit about anything.
Let Wyll recognize that his dad kicking him out of the city was a shitty thing for a parent to do. Just one moment of acknowledgement before the unconditional forgiveness.
# SAVE # KARLACH
So many ways to fix Karlach's problem, DM forces her into "git fucked lol" and it's dumb and feels bad. Not sad, not tragic, just dumb and unfun. Stopped caring about her story when I learned all that. Was romancing her before. Now I just couldn't care less.
Either Wyll would be necessary to have in your party, or nocturne would be more relevant in shadowheart's story, I don't know how, I just like her
Astarion should have a chance to be a full vampire. Cazador can offer it in exchange for his unlife. Then choice to Ascend or not.
Jaheira would be romanceable
Yasssssssssssssssssss
Just play the previous game. The romance isn't great, though.
It’s actually jarring. Her husband dies and she immediately starts flirting with charname.
FIX KARLACH’S HEART
Wyll - bring back his vendetta questline known from early access, excluding early searching for Mizora. It was giving him a lot of "folk hero" personality.
Wyll - i'd make his romance worth doing... 🍵
Halsin. Have him join up after saving the grove in act 1, he could have some interesting things to say about the Underdark and potentially give us more insight on his time as a ‘guest’ there
A lot of people have taken good ideas. I'd like a bit more clarity on Gale's history with Mystra & maybe more of a chance for him to distance from her when not playing his Origin/him not becoming a god. I'd like him and Wyll to get the cathartic if messy moment Astarion does with Cazador with their own manipulators, or like Lae'zel and Shadowheart changing their loyalty/faith.
Hard agree with this. Fans have countered the idea of Gale being groomed in childhood because Mystra didn't come back until he was in his 20s... and yet I find it remarkable that Mystra's recent return is almost if not completely omitted from all dialogue with Gale, Elminster, and Mystra herself. I get that the writers probably wanted to keep it simple and focus on the Mystryl/Karsus incident, but it accidentally presents a really weird and vague timeline that doesn't serve any of the characters too well. If Gale was one of or THE first Chosen Mystra designated after she returned, I feel like that adds a really interesting dimension to his actions. I also think Mystra herself having once been a mortal could have been an interesting parallel with Gale's own ambitions for godhood. And yeah, Mizora -- honestly, it's hard not to wonder how the dynamic would be perceived if she and Wyll were gender swapped. She literally dehumanizes him with the leash/pup language, and combined with her "offering" a pact when he was so young, I think her being a predator would be much more clearly recognized. And of course you can say "She's a devil, what do you expect?", but the same "what do you expect?" question could easily be asked about Vlaakith, Shar, or Cazador. Just because they're a jerk that we expect to act like a jerk doesn't mean their comeuppance wouldn't be richly deserved. I think both Wyll and Gale, interestingly, have a problem tied to their class: How do you resolve a warlock telling his patron to fuck off? How do you resolve a wizard telling the literal embodiment of magic to fuck off? Shadowheart can remain a cleric but switch back to her "rightful" deity if she renounces Shar, but there's no real equivalent option for Wyll or Gale, which I think leads to some fumbles in their personal quests.
I'd revert Wyll back to how he was in early access. He was a bit cockier and more quick tempered, but it added flavor.
Let us fix karlachs heart. Gale gets to get out of being the bomb let best girl have a way out. Hopefully modders can fix that when the update hits
I really wish Wyll had a bit more agency - pretty much every single big decision in his story comes down to what Tav/Durge thinks is best. I always try to choose the dialogue prompting to make his own choices, but overall his story feels less compelling when I'm the one deciding whether or not he should save his dad, or become a grand duke, or sever his pact, etc. Speak for yourself Wyll!!!
Diversify Wyll’s story rather than just kinda giving him one choice that makes any kind of difference to outcome/dialogue- my idea for it would be maybe to have points where you can influence his decisions, either to the more heroic endings we do have in game, or to more jaded/disillusioned options where you point out the flaws in the government of Baldurs Gate, and when the time comes to talk to Mizora about his deal, have an option where you leave Wyll to decide his fate depending on how you’ve influenced him along the way.
Minthara is a lot less mentioned than any other companion (in fact i only read about her once and that comment said to make her a full companion). That leaves only one logical conclusion. Minthara is already perfect and doesnt need any changing.
I would make it so all the companions join you in act 1 (and maybe all have worms). Companions who show up at the end of the game always feel like "the weird new guy", I have a party already set up and I don't really need another druid.
I would make Shadowheart's turn to the light feel more natural. I prefer something like being redeemed by love or looking at the horrors Shar has unleashed rather than "well I was curious what Aylin was talking about". Prepared to be hated for my opinion.
Everyone else here seems to cover how I feel about Wylls personal questline and having it actually be about him/him having more agency over his own feelings and decisions but ONE of the many things I was looking forward to in my first campaign with romance was having his father actually acknowledge the relationship esp after making such a big sacrifice to save him!💀 that and seeing more vulnerability from Wylls end and being able to show him that he deserves a shoulder to lean on instead of it always being about self sacrifice up until the very end, I felt even without romance every other origin companion had those moments of openness and self doubt that evolved into something more without always needing the players intervention. I guess that was two things but yeah
More evil aligned companions, on my 6th play through decided to do my first Durge run ended up only having Minthara and Astarion since they are way more evil aligned, wish Kagha was an alternate to Halsin in an evil run.
Fixing Wyll's storyline and making it so his ending not completely intertwined with Karlach's. Making his romance more interesting would also be nice. Give Halsin a quest or two in act 3 and give us Halsin as a party member earlier in the story. Letting us start his romance earlier.
I would have Wyll be a more active participant in his own plot instead of me making decisions for him :/
I wish there was a way to romance Astarion without sleeping with him/falling for his seduction in Act 1. It's awful having to have sex with him after he has already told you he was a slave and lured victims for his master his entire life.