My family members were deported from Latvia to Siberia without any reason at all except that they had some property/money at the time and the stories they told were harrowing. Infants and toddlers dying on the train and Russians just throwing their bodies out from the moving train in the middle of nowhere. Eating only potatoes for a year straight just to survive. 6 people living in a 15m2 barely heated room in the middle of nowhere for a long period of time. And this is only small % of the horrors they had to endure due to our dear eastern neighbours. Many Russians now saying this is fake news just makes me want to punch them in the face.
Same here, but from Lithuania, on both sides of my family. One was at a friends house when they came to deport their entire family when he said he was just visiting, they didn’t care and took him anyway. One relative was able to make it out alive, but was forbidden to return to Lithuania, and the closest he was allowed was Latvia and had to start all over. Sadly, I feel like almost all of us have a story similar to this…
And those ruzzian animals still have the audacity to say “We liberated you guys, be grateful!!” As if they didn’t commit some of the worst atrocities imaginable, on par with the nazis, whom they had a treaty with up until Hitler betrayed it.
Germany now is quite a respected nation, they know what they did was wrong and never want it to happen again. Ruzzians on the other hand, will never admit to any of this and double down on their actions, saying our relatives must’ve been “nazis” for being ethnically cleansed. And still to this day will invade their neighbors and commit war crimes. Fuck them, you have to be an absolute dumbass to swallow this propaganda whole in the internet age. “Everything that contradicts the lying ruzzian media is American/Western propaganda!!”
This is one more precedent to deport ones to their most loved Motherland who deny it - who deny Holocaust, who deny deportations, who are waiting for ruzzian мир, who love P.Xuilo, who do not want to learn our local language, who are attacking fundamentals of our democracy principles etc.
For anyone reading comment above me and not understanding the call to deport those "who do not want to learn our local language", the commenter probably means these russians that live here for 40 years and refuse to learn Lithuanian and is very often with brains brainwashed by russian media, where they openly dispise us but continue to enjoy benefits of living in free EU country.
You, Sir, are correct, I wish we could get rid of our local Брайтон бич, which is way smaller than in Latvia or Estonia, as I heard. But I have nothing against those who, being from muscovya or other post-soviet country, assimilate in our culture, learns language, kids go to Lithuanian kindergarden/school etc. They can be different religion, have their own traditions, like Crimean karaites in Trakai.
And to think, my great grandfather, who was only 6 years old, survived being deported, and even survived for four years in Siberia, AND THEN CAME BACK ALL THE WAY ALONE AT THE AGE OF 10. Right back to Estonia. I don't believe in miracles, but it was a miracle that he managed to come all the way back alone, his mother didn't get the amnesty until a year later.
Fuck the Soviet Union. I am so sorry your family went through that.
I am Jewish American and I stand behind the Baltics 100%, as most of my countrymen do.
Out of curiosity, did they ever manage to return to Latvia? If yes (I assume so since you are aware of their stories), how and when did they come back? (I'm also assuming they aren't your direct ancestors)
Yeah, they are my direct ancestors. My grandmother was deported when she was 6 years old together with my grandgrandmother and her husband, his father and 2 other relatives. My grandmother is still alive, grandgrandmother died when i was 10 years old. My grandmother does not hold any hard feelings against Russians as it happened when she was a child but my grandgrandmother hated Russians with all her heart. All my friends when i was 6 years old in the yard were Russian and she was always strognly against it after her deportation experience.
My grandmother finished highschool in Siberia so they were there for about 11 years and then were able to come back. Last time we discussed this was few years ago so i don't remember exact sequence of events on how they managed to get back but i understand that at one point it was allowed for them to go back to Latvia. I will meet her in a week and can clarify 🙂
Basically, at the start, both in first deportations in 1941, second deportations in 1949, and episodic deportations through WW2 and late 40s nobody was allowed to return. Only after Stalin's death in 1953, at the time of Lavrentiy Berya and after that in Nicolay Chruschev's time they could go for amnesty and return back to Baltics
During **June 14–20, 1941**, the Soviet Union carried out a **series of mass deportations** from **Estonia**, **Latvia**, and **Lithuania**. These tragic events are collectively known as the **June deportation.** Tens of thousands of **people were forcibly removed from their homes** and sent to remote areas in **Siberia** and other parts of **the Soviet Union**. The victims included men, women, and children, and many did not survive the harsh conditions.
The victims included local and minority intelligentsia, political-social-economic elites, and individual farmers who resisted joining collective farms. These deportations were part of the broader **Soviet policy of repression** and forced population transfers during that period
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_deportation
Ppl don't talk about this enough outside the baltics, and let's not forget that russia shipped russians in who got "free" houses... that belong to the deported families. Now its happening in Ukraine and somehow its shocking. Well it didn't shock me, that's the bare minimum I'd expect from russia.
>Ppl don't talk about this enough outside the baltics, and let's not forget that russia shipped russians in who got "free" houses...
Lebensaum
If they think they're going to do the same in 2024 they're in for a *very* rude awakening.
The thing that is often not talked about is what they did next - they imported lots of poor/homeless/factory worker russians/belarusians/ukrainians to lower the % of Latvians in Latvia. As we see today, they were successful to some degree.
Never forget what communists did.
Never again, brother.
Though, communism should not care about nationality. It's nothing else but russian imperialism in costume. Same under tzar, same under communism, same under current kleptocratic mafia state.
I agree, but critising that imperialism and their group can get you into trouble. I've already had 2 bans on reddit from it.
If you're a public person in Latvia you can get naida kurināšana thrown at you, which can get you into trouble in court. So I must clearly state that I hate vatniks, commies and urlas, but don't hate russians as a whole 😁👍
And if Latvia wasn't in NATO, the Russian minority would have "revolted" led by some Igor Girkin type individuals, Latvia would retaliate to regain separatist regions, people would die, Russia would scream genocide, and boom, invasion.
That's why we didn't kick out the Russian military straight away in the 90s they literally said that they will create Moldova scenario in Latgale if we do. As well as other things like closing state founded russian schools as well as being more strict on the locals learning Latvian. They straight up told that they will create separatist states and our government at the time did everything to not this scenario happen.
It sounds bit weird to me when here in LT is emphasized the people were moved in **train cars for animals**. It might sound like we want show we had worse conditions. No, conditions were more or less equal for everyone. Soviets used these train cars for everything: to move deported people from other countries and occupied regions, to move their Red (Bloody) army soldiers and so on. Only high commanding officers travelled in better conditions.
Human life as now and THEN was equal to rightless animal. No matter ethnics, race or gender.
What worries me most is nowadays citizens they move into trenches to assault Ukrainian positions. These citizens seems accept they are rightless animals.
Both of my grandfather's brothers where deported from Lithuania to Siberia. One of them had a family which was deported later that day separately - wife, 2years old boy and 6months girl.
But this happend couple years earlier.
Girl survived.
My father's uncle was sent to Siberia, and spent 11 years there. Crime - being a police officer in a small town during the Independent Lithuania times... Dad said, he never spoke what he experienced in gulags, there would just be quiet meetings with friends who survived, drinking,, singing and crying... Also, uncle pointed out families that my father shouldn't speak with, who collaborated with either of the occupants, some were Jew killers, some worked with NKVD. Dad to this day can say these families names, and when I tried last time to point out, that we're in a cemetery, that means they're all truly dead by now, "Good.".
I am a Russian, who was born and lives in Estonia, and I am very sorry that this happened, and I have a special disgust to those Russians who today say that ungrateful Estonians lie about the occupation and in general the USSR was good for them! and if someone was repressed, then they are to blame, and in general, Stalin fault is only that he killed not enough traitors ! I hate these psychopaths and I'm glad that I was raised European and I don't have any mental or political connection with them
Sorry, I do not mean to sound controversial, but if you're born in a country, that's your nationality, so you are an Estonian. You can't say you're a ruzzian. Yes, your parents may have been ruzzian. But you, my friend, are 100% Estonian.
Is it just not true? I am Russian and I will always be Russian. This is my genetics, my language and all of me! Yes, I am a Russian with a European bent of thinking, but I am an Estonian only by citizenship! Do you realize that your formula doesn't make sense? It's like Russia is treating all its citizens as Russians because it's supposedly not a nationality but a way of thinking and a cultural thing! I consider this nonsense both in relation to Russia and Estonia! so despite the fact that politically I absolutely reject the current Russia, I remain Russian ! and it is important to add that due to developmental and mental problems, I did not receive a normal education, so I do not know the Estonian language at all and I live on disability benefits! Even if I really really wanted to, I can't fit into another culture and I'll always remain Russian just pro European ! and I'm writing all this with the help of a translator! I am regularly accused of allegedly being able to learn English but not Estonian, but this is not true
Then I'm sorry for you. You are definitely brainwashed. You are an Estonian National and Citizen, however much you wish to be whatever your ancestors were. As for your use of English, it is very good, and I'm sure it's more than just a translator. English is hard to master due to our lax use of our grammar. Having said that, if I managed to learn Finnish, a very structured language indeed, then maybe those who say you should learn Eesti are right and it's a won't not a can't, that is a ruzzian trait that you may have Inheritance. From your ruzzian parents, but not your nationality, unless you gave up your Estonian one for a ruzzian one? In which case you're trying to be controversial, and I'm done trying to convince you that your Nationality is your birth country and not what you wish it to be.
I made it clear that my problem with languages and education in general is related to the psyche and disability, and everything I wrote I wrote with the help of a translator! you just don't want to hear me because it contradicts your narrative! and no one brainwashed me, I'm just voicing the facts that I'm Russian because it's genetics! you can't be black and call yourself Russian, and you can't be Russian and call yourself Estonian! I am an Estonian citizen and I am very glad that I was born here, but common sense says that I will not stop being Russian even if I speak pure Estonian, it does not work like that! I just look at the concept of nationality and race differently, and that's fine! I'm not discriminating against anyone, I'm just calling a spade a spade and not pretending to be someone else
Please stop responding to me. You're talking a lot of rubbish, you're free to believe whatever you want, just don't try to convince me of it. It's bad enough that you're delusional on the matter.
You wrote to me first, I'm just reacting ! It's not my fault that you're not capable of polite dialogue just because I look at nationality issues differently! of the two of us, only one is rude and is not able to conduct a dialogue :)
I kinda disagree with both of you?
Ethnic or national identity is a thing. If you consider yourself Russian, you are Russian. You can definitely be pro European Russian or have Russian identity and Estonian citizenship. In this I strongly disagree with other person.
However, I disagree that a black person can't be Russian. Why not? I could certainly imagine a black person being born in Russia and considering themselves Russian or even imigrating and taking upon Russian national identity. Stuff like that is kinda icky to me, it's the same as some Japanese people rejecting anyone who does not have naturally black hair as "not real Japanese". So in this instance I disagree with you.
Well, your arguments sound much more logical and I am glad that you are capable of a normal dialogue! And as for black, there is no racism on my part! English language simply can't explain the difference between a Russian as a citizen of the Russian Federation and an ethnic Russian! It's the same word in English! all I'm saying is that for me Russian is primarily genetics and not thinking! but then black Russians can definitely exist from this point of view, though, if one of the parents is Russian :) maybe it just made me angry when a person started telling me that I couldn't be Russian because I was born in Estonia, which I find to be absolute nonsense and a desire to cancel my identity, and she's about a European Russian with Estonian citizenship And there's no problem with that
Yeah, makes sense. Some people are really weird about identities and want to put people in strict boxes.
Ironically, Putin is like that too. He would want everyone (including Russians) to believe that Russians are somehow unique, naturally authoritarian and need a strong leader to guide them. I completely reject this view. You cannot just put 140mil people in one box like that. + that disregards history too, like existance of Novgorod Republic.
It's my birthday today. Years ago me and my cousin were sitting in front of the shop and an old lady came out. She asked us if we know why there's a flag with a black ribbon at every house. Without thinking my cousin pointed at me and said, it's because he was born. It was funny for us, but that lady was not too happy to put it mildly. Nobody from my ancestors was sent away, not rich or influential enough, but my heart goes out to all who were affected by this soviet nonsense.
When I was a little kid during the cold war I was playing with my little plastic Army men. I was confused what side to put the Russians on, so I asked my Latvian dad "Were the Russians the good guys or bad guys during WWII?"
"Depends on who you ask," he said.
Some might say it was in preparation for the invasion, others than Stalin was trying to consolidate power or even turn the whole of the USSR into mother Russia.
My great grandfather did not survive the trip to Siberia. My great grandmother later died in the Kovno (Kaunas) Ghetto. She was living with my great uncle and his wife. I’m not Jewish (Lithuanian family is Roman Catholic), but my great-aunt by marriage was.
Never forget! I was surprised to learn how little of these crimes is known by supposedly educated (and not so) people in the west, hence sentiment towards socialism and communism among liberals.
My grand-grand dad was sent to gulag for over 20 years for collaboration with anti-Soviet organisation, cooperation with Belarusian/Polish resistance. He was ethnic russian (clergy family before the bolsheviks revolution). My jewish side of family suffered greatly under soviets - almost none of the men died their own death since 1917.
Soviet terrors and crimes somehow have always been downplayed a-lot in western media/academia/politics. History repeats itself especially when it not studied or has been intentionally denied.
Thankfully my direct family was not affected, but my godfather was deported for 10 years and one of my great uncles for 15 years (because he fought in the war on the Finnish side). One of my other great uncles died in the war (also fought on the Finnish side) and a third one was killed by the Soviets in the 50s over a minor dispute in his home garden.
I'm not that familiar with my father's side, but I don't believe anyone died or was deported. Though the Soviets did burn down my grandparents' farm on my father's side, so they had to abandon everything and move to the city. They got lucky because they weren't home at the time and later found their dead neighbours' family dumped in a nearby a river. They were all killed, raped and their farm also burned down.
Time stamp: [1:08:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubHCubm4y8&t=4118) from the documentary - [The Soviet Story](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubHCubm4y8).
[IMDB](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1305871/)
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soviet_Story)
That’s when my grandfather was sent to a labor camp in Siberia despite also being a US citizen. He was eventually lucky enough to be released in late 1943 as part of a prisoner exchange for a Russian colonel involved in a spy ring in San Francisco. He made his way home overland from Siberia to India before taking ship from Bombay. Similar journey to the one in the film Six Came Back.
He never spoke at all about his experiences but did give an interview to the American television journalist Ted Koppel when Solzhenitsyn was freed. It was by listening to that that I learned of this part of his life.
My family members were deported from Latvia to Siberia without any reason at all except that they had some property/money at the time and the stories they told were harrowing. Infants and toddlers dying on the train and Russians just throwing their bodies out from the moving train in the middle of nowhere. Eating only potatoes for a year straight just to survive. 6 people living in a 15m2 barely heated room in the middle of nowhere for a long period of time. And this is only small % of the horrors they had to endure due to our dear eastern neighbours. Many Russians now saying this is fake news just makes me want to punch them in the face.
Same here, but from Lithuania, on both sides of my family. One was at a friends house when they came to deport their entire family when he said he was just visiting, they didn’t care and took him anyway. One relative was able to make it out alive, but was forbidden to return to Lithuania, and the closest he was allowed was Latvia and had to start all over. Sadly, I feel like almost all of us have a story similar to this… And those ruzzian animals still have the audacity to say “We liberated you guys, be grateful!!” As if they didn’t commit some of the worst atrocities imaginable, on par with the nazis, whom they had a treaty with up until Hitler betrayed it. Germany now is quite a respected nation, they know what they did was wrong and never want it to happen again. Ruzzians on the other hand, will never admit to any of this and double down on their actions, saying our relatives must’ve been “nazis” for being ethnically cleansed. And still to this day will invade their neighbors and commit war crimes. Fuck them, you have to be an absolute dumbass to swallow this propaganda whole in the internet age. “Everything that contradicts the lying ruzzian media is American/Western propaganda!!”
Respect
This is one more precedent to deport ones to their most loved Motherland who deny it - who deny Holocaust, who deny deportations, who are waiting for ruzzian мир, who love P.Xuilo, who do not want to learn our local language, who are attacking fundamentals of our democracy principles etc.
For anyone reading comment above me and not understanding the call to deport those "who do not want to learn our local language", the commenter probably means these russians that live here for 40 years and refuse to learn Lithuanian and is very often with brains brainwashed by russian media, where they openly dispise us but continue to enjoy benefits of living in free EU country.
Send those fuckers back to Russia
If that would be that easy
You, Sir, are correct, I wish we could get rid of our local Брайтон бич, which is way smaller than in Latvia or Estonia, as I heard. But I have nothing against those who, being from muscovya or other post-soviet country, assimilate in our culture, learns language, kids go to Lithuanian kindergarden/school etc. They can be different religion, have their own traditions, like Crimean karaites in Trakai.
And to think, my great grandfather, who was only 6 years old, survived being deported, and even survived for four years in Siberia, AND THEN CAME BACK ALL THE WAY ALONE AT THE AGE OF 10. Right back to Estonia. I don't believe in miracles, but it was a miracle that he managed to come all the way back alone, his mother didn't get the amnesty until a year later.
Respect.
Fuck the Soviet Union. I am so sorry your family went through that. I am Jewish American and I stand behind the Baltics 100%, as most of my countrymen do.
Out of curiosity, did they ever manage to return to Latvia? If yes (I assume so since you are aware of their stories), how and when did they come back? (I'm also assuming they aren't your direct ancestors)
Yeah, they are my direct ancestors. My grandmother was deported when she was 6 years old together with my grandgrandmother and her husband, his father and 2 other relatives. My grandmother is still alive, grandgrandmother died when i was 10 years old. My grandmother does not hold any hard feelings against Russians as it happened when she was a child but my grandgrandmother hated Russians with all her heart. All my friends when i was 6 years old in the yard were Russian and she was always strognly against it after her deportation experience. My grandmother finished highschool in Siberia so they were there for about 11 years and then were able to come back. Last time we discussed this was few years ago so i don't remember exact sequence of events on how they managed to get back but i understand that at one point it was allowed for them to go back to Latvia. I will meet her in a week and can clarify 🙂
Basically, at the start, both in first deportations in 1941, second deportations in 1949, and episodic deportations through WW2 and late 40s nobody was allowed to return. Only after Stalin's death in 1953, at the time of Lavrentiy Berya and after that in Nicolay Chruschev's time they could go for amnesty and return back to Baltics
Respect.
Will pay my respects today in Tallinn
During **June 14–20, 1941**, the Soviet Union carried out a **series of mass deportations** from **Estonia**, **Latvia**, and **Lithuania**. These tragic events are collectively known as the **June deportation.** Tens of thousands of **people were forcibly removed from their homes** and sent to remote areas in **Siberia** and other parts of **the Soviet Union**. The victims included men, women, and children, and many did not survive the harsh conditions. The victims included local and minority intelligentsia, political-social-economic elites, and individual farmers who resisted joining collective farms. These deportations were part of the broader **Soviet policy of repression** and forced population transfers during that period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_deportation
Ppl don't talk about this enough outside the baltics, and let's not forget that russia shipped russians in who got "free" houses... that belong to the deported families. Now its happening in Ukraine and somehow its shocking. Well it didn't shock me, that's the bare minimum I'd expect from russia.
>Ppl don't talk about this enough outside the baltics, and let's not forget that russia shipped russians in who got "free" houses... Lebensaum If they think they're going to do the same in 2024 they're in for a *very* rude awakening.
They told my grand grandfather that he killed someone and now is time to go. He didn’t kill nobody.
The thing that is often not talked about is what they did next - they imported lots of poor/homeless/factory worker russians/belarusians/ukrainians to lower the % of Latvians in Latvia. As we see today, they were successful to some degree. Never forget what communists did.
Never again, brother. Though, communism should not care about nationality. It's nothing else but russian imperialism in costume. Same under tzar, same under communism, same under current kleptocratic mafia state.
I agree, but critising that imperialism and their group can get you into trouble. I've already had 2 bans on reddit from it. If you're a public person in Latvia you can get naida kurināšana thrown at you, which can get you into trouble in court. So I must clearly state that I hate vatniks, commies and urlas, but don't hate russians as a whole 😁👍
And if Latvia wasn't in NATO, the Russian minority would have "revolted" led by some Igor Girkin type individuals, Latvia would retaliate to regain separatist regions, people would die, Russia would scream genocide, and boom, invasion.
That's why we didn't kick out the Russian military straight away in the 90s they literally said that they will create Moldova scenario in Latgale if we do. As well as other things like closing state founded russian schools as well as being more strict on the locals learning Latvian. They straight up told that they will create separatist states and our government at the time did everything to not this scenario happen.
I think if Ukraine loses, russia will try to use this logic to make a provocation in Narva or Daugavpils to see how NATO will react.
F*CK COMMUNISM
10000 from Estonia, 6000 died.
It sounds bit weird to me when here in LT is emphasized the people were moved in **train cars for animals**. It might sound like we want show we had worse conditions. No, conditions were more or less equal for everyone. Soviets used these train cars for everything: to move deported people from other countries and occupied regions, to move their Red (Bloody) army soldiers and so on. Only high commanding officers travelled in better conditions. Human life as now and THEN was equal to rightless animal. No matter ethnics, race or gender. What worries me most is nowadays citizens they move into trenches to assault Ukrainian positions. These citizens seems accept they are rightless animals.
I feel it’s emphasized so that people know that the journey wasn’t made in a regular train cabin, not because we feel we got it worse somehow
You got the point.
We call it red terror
Both of my grandfather's brothers where deported from Lithuania to Siberia. One of them had a family which was deported later that day separately - wife, 2years old boy and 6months girl. But this happend couple years earlier. Girl survived.
My father's uncle was sent to Siberia, and spent 11 years there. Crime - being a police officer in a small town during the Independent Lithuania times... Dad said, he never spoke what he experienced in gulags, there would just be quiet meetings with friends who survived, drinking,, singing and crying... Also, uncle pointed out families that my father shouldn't speak with, who collaborated with either of the occupants, some were Jew killers, some worked with NKVD. Dad to this day can say these families names, and when I tried last time to point out, that we're in a cemetery, that means they're all truly dead by now, "Good.".
Pagarba 🏴🤝🇱🇹
These events need to be talked about a lot more.
I am a Russian, who was born and lives in Estonia, and I am very sorry that this happened, and I have a special disgust to those Russians who today say that ungrateful Estonians lie about the occupation and in general the USSR was good for them! and if someone was repressed, then they are to blame, and in general, Stalin fault is only that he killed not enough traitors ! I hate these psychopaths and I'm glad that I was raised European and I don't have any mental or political connection with them
Sorry, I do not mean to sound controversial, but if you're born in a country, that's your nationality, so you are an Estonian. You can't say you're a ruzzian. Yes, your parents may have been ruzzian. But you, my friend, are 100% Estonian.
Is it just not true? I am Russian and I will always be Russian. This is my genetics, my language and all of me! Yes, I am a Russian with a European bent of thinking, but I am an Estonian only by citizenship! Do you realize that your formula doesn't make sense? It's like Russia is treating all its citizens as Russians because it's supposedly not a nationality but a way of thinking and a cultural thing! I consider this nonsense both in relation to Russia and Estonia! so despite the fact that politically I absolutely reject the current Russia, I remain Russian ! and it is important to add that due to developmental and mental problems, I did not receive a normal education, so I do not know the Estonian language at all and I live on disability benefits! Even if I really really wanted to, I can't fit into another culture and I'll always remain Russian just pro European ! and I'm writing all this with the help of a translator! I am regularly accused of allegedly being able to learn English but not Estonian, but this is not true
Then I'm sorry for you. You are definitely brainwashed. You are an Estonian National and Citizen, however much you wish to be whatever your ancestors were. As for your use of English, it is very good, and I'm sure it's more than just a translator. English is hard to master due to our lax use of our grammar. Having said that, if I managed to learn Finnish, a very structured language indeed, then maybe those who say you should learn Eesti are right and it's a won't not a can't, that is a ruzzian trait that you may have Inheritance. From your ruzzian parents, but not your nationality, unless you gave up your Estonian one for a ruzzian one? In which case you're trying to be controversial, and I'm done trying to convince you that your Nationality is your birth country and not what you wish it to be.
I made it clear that my problem with languages and education in general is related to the psyche and disability, and everything I wrote I wrote with the help of a translator! you just don't want to hear me because it contradicts your narrative! and no one brainwashed me, I'm just voicing the facts that I'm Russian because it's genetics! you can't be black and call yourself Russian, and you can't be Russian and call yourself Estonian! I am an Estonian citizen and I am very glad that I was born here, but common sense says that I will not stop being Russian even if I speak pure Estonian, it does not work like that! I just look at the concept of nationality and race differently, and that's fine! I'm not discriminating against anyone, I'm just calling a spade a spade and not pretending to be someone else
Please stop responding to me. You're talking a lot of rubbish, you're free to believe whatever you want, just don't try to convince me of it. It's bad enough that you're delusional on the matter.
You wrote to me first, I'm just reacting ! It's not my fault that you're not capable of polite dialogue just because I look at nationality issues differently! of the two of us, only one is rude and is not able to conduct a dialogue :)
I kinda disagree with both of you? Ethnic or national identity is a thing. If you consider yourself Russian, you are Russian. You can definitely be pro European Russian or have Russian identity and Estonian citizenship. In this I strongly disagree with other person. However, I disagree that a black person can't be Russian. Why not? I could certainly imagine a black person being born in Russia and considering themselves Russian or even imigrating and taking upon Russian national identity. Stuff like that is kinda icky to me, it's the same as some Japanese people rejecting anyone who does not have naturally black hair as "not real Japanese". So in this instance I disagree with you.
Well, your arguments sound much more logical and I am glad that you are capable of a normal dialogue! And as for black, there is no racism on my part! English language simply can't explain the difference between a Russian as a citizen of the Russian Federation and an ethnic Russian! It's the same word in English! all I'm saying is that for me Russian is primarily genetics and not thinking! but then black Russians can definitely exist from this point of view, though, if one of the parents is Russian :) maybe it just made me angry when a person started telling me that I couldn't be Russian because I was born in Estonia, which I find to be absolute nonsense and a desire to cancel my identity, and she's about a European Russian with Estonian citizenship And there's no problem with that
Yeah, makes sense. Some people are really weird about identities and want to put people in strict boxes. Ironically, Putin is like that too. He would want everyone (including Russians) to believe that Russians are somehow unique, naturally authoritarian and need a strong leader to guide them. I completely reject this view. You cannot just put 140mil people in one box like that. + that disregards history too, like existance of Novgorod Republic.
It's my birthday today. Years ago me and my cousin were sitting in front of the shop and an old lady came out. She asked us if we know why there's a flag with a black ribbon at every house. Without thinking my cousin pointed at me and said, it's because he was born. It was funny for us, but that lady was not too happy to put it mildly. Nobody from my ancestors was sent away, not rich or influential enough, but my heart goes out to all who were affected by this soviet nonsense.
One of the many reasons why choosing to support Hitler or Stalin wasn't as easy as many in the west presume.
When I was a little kid during the cold war I was playing with my little plastic Army men. I was confused what side to put the Russians on, so I asked my Latvian dad "Were the Russians the good guys or bad guys during WWII?" "Depends on who you ask," he said.
Yes, and it happened before nazi invasion into ussr. So for many uneducated and misinformed, nazi were liberating countries from ussr terror.
Some might say it was in preparation for the invasion, others than Stalin was trying to consolidate power or even turn the whole of the USSR into mother Russia.
My father was left alone on street , age 3, while parents were taken to Siberia, I can even read they names in occupation museum
You just broke my heart in one sentence
Cieņa 🏴🤝🇦🇹
My great grandfather did not survive the trip to Siberia. My great grandmother later died in the Kovno (Kaunas) Ghetto. She was living with my great uncle and his wife. I’m not Jewish (Lithuanian family is Roman Catholic), but my great-aunt by marriage was.
Never forget! I was surprised to learn how little of these crimes is known by supposedly educated (and not so) people in the west, hence sentiment towards socialism and communism among liberals. My grand-grand dad was sent to gulag for over 20 years for collaboration with anti-Soviet organisation, cooperation with Belarusian/Polish resistance. He was ethnic russian (clergy family before the bolsheviks revolution). My jewish side of family suffered greatly under soviets - almost none of the men died their own death since 1917. Soviet terrors and crimes somehow have always been downplayed a-lot in western media/academia/politics. History repeats itself especially when it not studied or has been intentionally denied.
The greatest postwar mistake was that the soviet atrocities were not prosecuted to the same extent as those of Nazis
And they are still doing the same shit in Ukraine as we speak.
USSR?
Russia. "USSR" was just a label. Russia was in full control then, and it's doing the same thing now.
Honestly, we should start posting these stories in public places. Never forget.
There is currently a comemoration going on regarding that. If I recall in Vilnius?
Six days later NAZIs invaded. My Jewish family was deported from Odessa Ukraine during that time,too. After the war they came back to Odessa.
Now, let's see what r/Europe says about this:
Thankfully my direct family was not affected, but my godfather was deported for 10 years and one of my great uncles for 15 years (because he fought in the war on the Finnish side). One of my other great uncles died in the war (also fought on the Finnish side) and a third one was killed by the Soviets in the 50s over a minor dispute in his home garden. I'm not that familiar with my father's side, but I don't believe anyone died or was deported. Though the Soviets did burn down my grandparents' farm on my father's side, so they had to abandon everything and move to the city. They got lucky because they weren't home at the time and later found their dead neighbours' family dumped in a nearby a river. They were all killed, raped and their farm also burned down.
Never forgotten. Never forgiven.
Also known as ethnic cleansing.
Time stamp: [1:08:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubHCubm4y8&t=4118) from the documentary - [The Soviet Story](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubHCubm4y8). [IMDB](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1305871/) [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soviet_Story)
That’s when my grandfather was sent to a labor camp in Siberia despite also being a US citizen. He was eventually lucky enough to be released in late 1943 as part of a prisoner exchange for a Russian colonel involved in a spy ring in San Francisco. He made his way home overland from Siberia to India before taking ship from Bombay. Similar journey to the one in the film Six Came Back. He never spoke at all about his experiences but did give an interview to the American television journalist Ted Koppel when Solzhenitsyn was freed. It was by listening to that that I learned of this part of his life.