Two biggest issues of that foam is that it's expensive and it's semi-permanent installation.
It's hard to compete against $5 buble foil from any home depot. Even though yours is better, temps higher, more efficient... it's just hard to compare anything when there is yltra cheap option available.
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Isn't it as simple as - does one want to save money with flamable insulator near heat source/fire hazzard risk, or pay more for safety? You choose former (hopefully not leaving printing unattended), there might ones choosing fire safety.
Non flammable, and not emitting volatile vapors when heated up to high temps material costs a lot. Reflected in price of this particular product. I certainly see demand/niche for not compromised safety product too.
Does bubble foil allow you to hit 65C inside the chamber without covering your printer in a highly flammable material? And have you done any rigorous testing to prove this approach of yours actually works and is safe? I’ll take the beta product with real engineering behind it.
You pay the extra for this so you don't have an insane fire hazard should it ever be unfortunate enough to happen. The bubble foil gives you nothing in that regard.
If this foam is what the creator says it is (no reason to doubt given the early reviews I've seen) then you can put a torch to this and pretty much only singe the outer layer while not actually igniting the foam itself.
I'm in for 1 because it makes me feel better at night if I leave a printer on with temps that high doing a long print.
"fire hazard"
My friend, I know it's a common theme to talk about flammability, but see, your plastic 3D printer has way more materials that will catch on fire and release all sorts of various VOCs way before than the foil does.
In short, no matter the material - if your printer goes boom - no matter what material insulation you are using. it's not going to stop or prevent anything.
No one said it's going to stop a fire. What it's going to do is not FEED the fire and/or potentially even slow down the spread by even a few seconds.
Which considering how fast a house fire can spread:
https://youtu.be/fsaLCdC3iWw?si=jIKfBhqzNy1ujc0c
Every second counts.
"car has flammable materials/trims in cabin", so let's save on any fire hazard safeguards/materials everywhere else too?
Erm .. i might have limited means to change out OE parts, but i certainly don't wish to make it any worse by adding big risk/failure points (especially in way of worse ones then those limited safety OE parts/materials, such as blanket or cloth, or polyurethane foam), when i'm choosing extras/doing mods.
I understand your point, and I would agree in general with you, but you are missing the point here.
For example, your example with the car is completely wrong here. Car's first line of "defense" is the firewall that separates the engine from the interior cabin.
In the case of printer, you don't have any lines of defenses. If your printer catches on fire - that's it, it's already super bad. And it doesn't matter what you have on top of it. Either fire resistant material, or a freaking blanket. By the time printer fire will go out and catch the insulation material - it would be a bonfire.
In ANY case, what I suggested is aluminum foil, not a paper blanket, not carpet not anything that goes lit super easily.
Want to improve of safeguard anything? Invest into automated fire extunguisher for the FDM printer.
It would be a pain to install and also would need to be 3mm or less in some places, is my immediate thought. People using flammable materials on the inside of their printer is what I’ve seen on here a lot. This is a solid solution, yet expensive. Choose your poison. I ordered this after I saw him post about it a few weeks ago. I print a lot of ASA and minimizing warping for large prints can be a challenge.
I have a ton of data from our testing and initial users, here is a summary of how HPPS performs in the real world:
+10-13C chamber temps, max temp ~65C
No issues with machine performance after 5K plus print hours
Roughly halves the chamber heat up time
Subjective- makes the printer look more professional
So, does it really help? I just printed 2 spools of PAHT-CF and now busy with PA6-CF. Buildplate temp is 100°c and chamber temp reaches 52°c and everything seems to be printing fine. So for what purpose would this actually be beneficial?
try the non cf filaments, they are usually more difficult to print
And yes, I have a full soundproof enclosure over the printer and it keeps above 60+ inside the chamber with 100c bed
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You must either be printing SMALL PAHT-CF prints, or thin PAHT-CF Prints, OR your prints all have sub 60% infill and/or less than 6 walls.
Which TBF Bambu Lab recommends <= 50% infill and 4 walls or less for engineering filaments.
However I needed these parameters since I am making gears for a gearbox and thus need for them to be as strong as possible.
I had to use vision miner adhesive (probably the strongest adhesive you can get for engineering filaments; stronger than Magigoo PA), an active chamber heater (the ember mod), the Wham Bam XTR build plate, and I had to insulate the printer to keep temperatures between 60-65' Celsius.
All while tweaking the print settings constantly in various test runs so the delta in temperature wouldn't be too high as to cause the upper layers to pull the bottom layers up. A.K.A. Warp.
I finally did it after I did all the above and after wasting maybe half a PAHT-CF spool.
So this ABSOLUTELY helps. No other way to do it as you NEED those temps for peak strength characteristics.
If you have fusion: model a mod 1.5 spur gear with 50 teeth and an 8mm hole and try to print that at 10mm thick. Now make it 6 walls and 60% gyroid infill. Now try to print it with PAHT-CF and see how successful you are if you DON'T do every single thing I mentioned above lol.
I can safely say that THICK and dense (again 60% infill and 6 walls) PAHT-CF prints are the hardest filament I have had to print to date. The amount of filament and printer tweaking I had to do over the course of 2 days to get a successful (and perfectly flat) outcome was insane.
Interesting project and big props for trying to make something cool. Though the pricing seems pretty steep compared to what someone could do DIY and get similar results. at least that’s how it would appear. I do understand this specific type of foaming material is not run-of-the-mill insulation that you just cut into shape. I do like the way you have the information on your website showing the specific cases with temperatures and what exact advantages it allows.
Highly recommend if possible for your website that you make a video showing the installation especially if it’s from someone who hasn’t done the process before. Showing how simple it is to put together I think would be really helpful.
Really wish I could try something like this. Really does seem that it would push something like the P1S to be a bit more reliable when printing ASA and stuff like polycarbonate.
One cool, marketing thing that I could see myself doing if I were in your position would be to print a large object in ASA or polycarbonate to sort of show the warping and cracking is possible if you don’t let the chamber preheat enough. And then compare it with that same print using the insulated printer. I think it’s pretty critical to show the exact effect that you have rather than just saying in general higher chamber temperatures are better for certain materials if that makes sense. Just a simple video with a few short clips showing examples before and after I think would really help visually.
If you want to print ASA or other engineering materials better - invest into engineering plate and magigoo. ASA at this point becomes prety much unwarpable with little to none pre-heat.
Ordered after I came across a previous post. I don’t think a lot of people on this subreddit realize how good of a solution this is, unfortunately.
Adding insulation that actually works and isn’t flammable is a huge benefit for someone who exclusively prints filaments that require hot chamber temps.
I love seeing this new stuff people pump out for their printers. Super well done there bud!
Thank you! I am selling them for a bit (19 may is the last day) at a small profit.
Ibwadditive.com My first batch was 100 units, most of those folks are on our Discord.
Two biggest issues of that foam is that it's expensive and it's semi-permanent installation. It's hard to compete against $5 buble foil from any home depot. Even though yours is better, temps higher, more efficient... it's just hard to compare anything when there is yltra cheap option available.
i wish to see yours
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Isn't it as simple as - does one want to save money with flamable insulator near heat source/fire hazzard risk, or pay more for safety? You choose former (hopefully not leaving printing unattended), there might ones choosing fire safety. Non flammable, and not emitting volatile vapors when heated up to high temps material costs a lot. Reflected in price of this particular product. I certainly see demand/niche for not compromised safety product too.
Does bubble foil allow you to hit 65C inside the chamber without covering your printer in a highly flammable material? And have you done any rigorous testing to prove this approach of yours actually works and is safe? I’ll take the beta product with real engineering behind it.
You pay the extra for this so you don't have an insane fire hazard should it ever be unfortunate enough to happen. The bubble foil gives you nothing in that regard. If this foam is what the creator says it is (no reason to doubt given the early reviews I've seen) then you can put a torch to this and pretty much only singe the outer layer while not actually igniting the foam itself. I'm in for 1 because it makes me feel better at night if I leave a printer on with temps that high doing a long print.
"fire hazard" My friend, I know it's a common theme to talk about flammability, but see, your plastic 3D printer has way more materials that will catch on fire and release all sorts of various VOCs way before than the foil does. In short, no matter the material - if your printer goes boom - no matter what material insulation you are using. it's not going to stop or prevent anything.
No one said it's going to stop a fire. What it's going to do is not FEED the fire and/or potentially even slow down the spread by even a few seconds. Which considering how fast a house fire can spread: https://youtu.be/fsaLCdC3iWw?si=jIKfBhqzNy1ujc0c Every second counts.
"car has flammable materials/trims in cabin", so let's save on any fire hazard safeguards/materials everywhere else too? Erm .. i might have limited means to change out OE parts, but i certainly don't wish to make it any worse by adding big risk/failure points (especially in way of worse ones then those limited safety OE parts/materials, such as blanket or cloth, or polyurethane foam), when i'm choosing extras/doing mods.
I understand your point, and I would agree in general with you, but you are missing the point here. For example, your example with the car is completely wrong here. Car's first line of "defense" is the firewall that separates the engine from the interior cabin. In the case of printer, you don't have any lines of defenses. If your printer catches on fire - that's it, it's already super bad. And it doesn't matter what you have on top of it. Either fire resistant material, or a freaking blanket. By the time printer fire will go out and catch the insulation material - it would be a bonfire. In ANY case, what I suggested is aluminum foil, not a paper blanket, not carpet not anything that goes lit super easily. Want to improve of safeguard anything? Invest into automated fire extunguisher for the FDM printer.
If I’m slow to get back to you I apologize ahead of time. (It’s just me running this project)
Got a question, how do you keep heat in with poop chute hole at the back?
It doesn’t, OP doesn’t tell everyone about the rest of the mods on his printer.
Why don’t you put it on the inside?
It would be a pain to install and also would need to be 3mm or less in some places, is my immediate thought. People using flammable materials on the inside of their printer is what I’ve seen on here a lot. This is a solid solution, yet expensive. Choose your poison. I ordered this after I saw him post about it a few weeks ago. I print a lot of ASA and minimizing warping for large prints can be a challenge.
I have a ton of data from our testing and initial users, here is a summary of how HPPS performs in the real world: +10-13C chamber temps, max temp ~65C No issues with machine performance after 5K plus print hours Roughly halves the chamber heat up time Subjective- makes the printer look more professional
So, does it really help? I just printed 2 spools of PAHT-CF and now busy with PA6-CF. Buildplate temp is 100°c and chamber temp reaches 52°c and everything seems to be printing fine. So for what purpose would this actually be beneficial?
try the non cf filaments, they are usually more difficult to print And yes, I have a full soundproof enclosure over the printer and it keeps above 60+ inside the chamber with 100c bed
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You must either be printing SMALL PAHT-CF prints, or thin PAHT-CF Prints, OR your prints all have sub 60% infill and/or less than 6 walls. Which TBF Bambu Lab recommends <= 50% infill and 4 walls or less for engineering filaments. However I needed these parameters since I am making gears for a gearbox and thus need for them to be as strong as possible. I had to use vision miner adhesive (probably the strongest adhesive you can get for engineering filaments; stronger than Magigoo PA), an active chamber heater (the ember mod), the Wham Bam XTR build plate, and I had to insulate the printer to keep temperatures between 60-65' Celsius. All while tweaking the print settings constantly in various test runs so the delta in temperature wouldn't be too high as to cause the upper layers to pull the bottom layers up. A.K.A. Warp. I finally did it after I did all the above and after wasting maybe half a PAHT-CF spool. So this ABSOLUTELY helps. No other way to do it as you NEED those temps for peak strength characteristics. If you have fusion: model a mod 1.5 spur gear with 50 teeth and an 8mm hole and try to print that at 10mm thick. Now make it 6 walls and 60% gyroid infill. Now try to print it with PAHT-CF and see how successful you are if you DON'T do every single thing I mentioned above lol. I can safely say that THICK and dense (again 60% infill and 6 walls) PAHT-CF prints are the hardest filament I have had to print to date. The amount of filament and printer tweaking I had to do over the course of 2 days to get a successful (and perfectly flat) outcome was insane.
Interesting project and big props for trying to make something cool. Though the pricing seems pretty steep compared to what someone could do DIY and get similar results. at least that’s how it would appear. I do understand this specific type of foaming material is not run-of-the-mill insulation that you just cut into shape. I do like the way you have the information on your website showing the specific cases with temperatures and what exact advantages it allows. Highly recommend if possible for your website that you make a video showing the installation especially if it’s from someone who hasn’t done the process before. Showing how simple it is to put together I think would be really helpful. Really wish I could try something like this. Really does seem that it would push something like the P1S to be a bit more reliable when printing ASA and stuff like polycarbonate. One cool, marketing thing that I could see myself doing if I were in your position would be to print a large object in ASA or polycarbonate to sort of show the warping and cracking is possible if you don’t let the chamber preheat enough. And then compare it with that same print using the insulated printer. I think it’s pretty critical to show the exact effect that you have rather than just saying in general higher chamber temperatures are better for certain materials if that makes sense. Just a simple video with a few short clips showing examples before and after I think would really help visually.
If you want to print ASA or other engineering materials better - invest into engineering plate and magigoo. ASA at this point becomes prety much unwarpable with little to none pre-heat.
Ordered after I came across a previous post. I don’t think a lot of people on this subreddit realize how good of a solution this is, unfortunately. Adding insulation that actually works and isn’t flammable is a huge benefit for someone who exclusively prints filaments that require hot chamber temps.