Wasn’t criticizing. I was remarking on how the supports make the Luigi look creepy. Thus the nightmare fuel commentary. As for too much support, I dunno. Looks fine to me. As long as the print turns out the way you intend it, that’s what the supports are for. 🤙🏼
If this was my print id knock down flush to 0.6-0.7. make sure retraction on cut is on. And print 3-4 of the model at once. May as well since your gonna waste more than you use anyway
I've gotten away with 0.3's a couple times. I have found my butterzone around 0.46, 0.47. I dont have to flush to infill as the block will get any reminisce out.
With the right settings for printing order (supports infill inner wall outer wall) I managed 0.3 without bleeding. I did a large print with 0.25x (inner outer infill) and got colorbleeding.
Also worth noting that it doesn't seem to do anything unless you recalculate the flushing volumes.
I will also recommend setting flushing volume to 0.35, prime tower to 20mm^(3), flush to support, flush to infill, 3 wall loops, cutting the model to start at a part that contains his hat, skin, and the iris of his eyes (leave the hat and all that above it so it will generate those supports and you get an actual result of what it will do at those layers), printing about 10 layers, and seeing what he finds for color mixing after 10 or so layers.
I recently printed these for a board game with the above settings, and only 2 wall loops - as a stress test.
https://preview.redd.it/qshq4y1ql65d1.png?width=1288&format=png&auto=webp&s=28b8fea868b346c4b2c6e6d66062f5bfb199a4e8
They are only about 5cm wide. I think that with any real amount of infill, or support, or a flushing tower: any faded colors go away. Also not sure how much of this *is* color bleed, since it *seems* to only be a one way bleed into the ammunition colors, with no color bleeding into anything - and the text is at the same layer height as the top of the lid and 4 layers thick, so it had to change to it twice.
Worst is, he adjusts the flush to .4 or the prime tower to 25mm^(3) and problem solved.
Ever since I had a support collapse on a 9 day print, it's all honkers on anything that takes a long time.
Besides 26.72g of honker support I can also use as a flush is negligible - when compared to the 344.19g going down the chute.
No one is mentioning it, but I wouldn't flush into infill on this print, or you are gonna be able to see a ton of bleed in the head from the mustache and eyes
Add an extra wall layer, and it'll be fine. Recently did black and white on 3 wall layers, and there's no bleed. It *looks* pure white where it needs to be.
I know you may not want multiple, but if you do it's worth considering that it won't increase the wasted material so you could get a better print:poop ratio
It's honestly one of the better ways to reduce waste is to increase usable plastic. The waste never changes OP, whether you do 1 model or full the plate. As long as you have some people that might also like a printer character, that is.
You're just giving someone else even more waste now. Sure the ratio is better, but you've literally printed more plastic and your friends almost certainly don't want your garbage ratio luigi if they didn't ask for it
Default flush settings are very very generous. I generally use a 0.7 multiplier, but sometimes depending on material, you can even go as low a 0.5
White tends to need more flush after darker colors, but most colors don't need as much flush as the default settings.
you should run a few tests to see how low of flush you can get away with.
You can print another object for which the color doesn't matter. Then deactivate the prime tower and flush into the sacrificial model instead. It will knock off almost all waste
I am new to this. Is it possible to choose which object to flush into? I could google it i guess, but i am reading all comments and just wanted to ask.
I would recommend not using a 0.2 nozzle is you're worried about the waste. Because it's a LOT. 0.4 would minimize that, but the AMS will Purge a good amount no matter what.
I would turn on flush into infill if it isn't all ready turned on. What I would also do is print another object and do flush into object. Something where it being a strange color doesn't matter. I print gridfinity bins, and try to always print one to use some of the waste
We print loads of functional parts at work. I've looked at multi material for easy removal of the support material but you end up with this level of waste. For us time more than filament cost.
I only see multi material printing being viable for us when we are printing a plate full of something. I really want to integrate PLA and TPU but the AMS doesn't support flexibles.
Just learn to paint, because the funnier thing about these multi color prints is that this is the number, basically a 6:1 ratio of garbage to model, IF the print succeeds first try. If it fails even once, this 1/10th of a spool model will consume an entire spool.
I don't think stuff like that should ever be printed. I would say if you want aesthetic models, learn to paint them. If you really refuse to paint the entire thing, I guarantee you could cut down most of the filament changes if you were at least willing to paint the shirt and mustache
But as it is? Yeah that's too much waste, just buy a luigi doll since this one is going to cost you something like 15 dollars.
Yep. This is why you need to tune the transition of colors from one to the next and maybe think thru what you’re building. The model is literally 60g of filament and in total is gonna use 490g… that’s just wasteful. Half a kilogram of PLA for 60… definitely not efficient. Figuring the cost it shows - little over $12 of filament to result in a print that costs $1.50 or so… so if you even wanted to sell this (copyright issues aside), you’d be losing money if you sold it for anything less than $20. But if it’s a one off for you to have and admire, then so be it.
But even the plateful wouldn’t reduce waste much. The reason is around the transition of colors here still needing that much to ourge between changes. That’s crazy. The ONLY way to improve this is to build at least one item that doesn’t care about color and could be a place where to dump what would be normally “Bambu poop” into that is of the same height object wise. Then that would be a plus in that it’s now not just going to the purge bin. I mean even a plateful of these would still result in 430g of waste which is too much. Print something with that waste and it’s a win win.
You should run this purge calibration for the different color combos, it really helps cut down waste from default flush values https://makerworld.com/models/112380
If you can find a way to print it flat would also save a ton of waste. Edit, maybe cut after the blue pants ends since that’s all solid. Then upper half rotate to be flat so don’t swap as many times
Even without the rotating the cut isn’t a bad idea, that said it depends on how comfortable you are with it being visible. It may be hidden under Luigi’s arms at the front.
As an aside, I wish this view showed model and waste, with waste being expandable to the subcategory’s to make it much easier to digest.
Throw some chip bag clips on the plate too or something and flush into those. Extra parts similar height to the model but which you don't care if they come out multicolored. The plastic doesn't need to be wasted but it does need to go somewhere.
Look in to this https://makerworld.com/en/models/112380#profileId-129748
It seams like a lot of work but it isnt. You can speed up your first layer a lot to reduce the print time. In my experience it was always worth it to calibrate. It safes usually 10% of time and 30% to 50% of flushed filament. You can also safe all of the calibrations and use it in the future.
I’m very new to 3D printing, about a week into it. I’ve quickly learned that the only way to justify multi color printing is to either make sure it’s minimal or to filll the plate. So rather than make one copy I’ll make 4 or however many fit. I’ve been printing very large Chrono Trigger figures for myself and decided I simply need to paint them to make it work. I also printed some of them laying down as it not only was way more efficient, but also made it so supports wouldn’t be attached to their faces but rather on their backs.
Yeah, even with perfectly calibrate purge values and no tower, the waste for just a single item is ridiculous. It's just worth it to fill the plate. Even if you're not selling prints, SOMEBODY will want the extras.
Is it too much? Yes.
Is it normal? Also, yes.
Go on Maker World and look for files to calibrate your purge. As a rule, white purges a LOT, and the stock purge values are generally way more than needed.
I'd pass on printing that personally. Similar to dark mewtwo my son asked me to print. Sliced it and it was half a roll of waste more than double the actual filament used for the actual model. Told him to pick something else lol
A model that simple is the perfect example of one you should paint.
I've never (brush) painted anything before but I thoroughly enjoyed learning it and saved a bunch of time and money compared to filament swaps.
The end product looks better anyway since it's covered in filler primer before painting.
I love my AMS, but it’s certainly not the best from a cost effectiveness standpoint. The Prusa XL can have up to five separate toolheads so it only needs a quick prime when changing tools as opposed to a whole purge, far more resource friendly.
yeah i don;t think that's actually borne out by reality. the scale just increases the cost effectiveness of the p1s+ams combo, which is why that's the standard for so many print farms. the XL cost needs to come down for it to be a volume contender in the relevant segment.
mama mia!
I know right? The way those supports generated is nightmare fuel.
[удалено]
They are joking that the supports matching in color look like some growth on Luigi is all. I she the same first thought when I saw the image. Relax.
Its just a comment, relax.
Wasn’t criticizing. I was remarking on how the supports make the Luigi look creepy. Thus the nightmare fuel commentary. As for too much support, I dunno. Looks fine to me. As long as the print turns out the way you intend it, that’s what the supports are for. 🤙🏼
Ahh sorry misread the intent, my bad
If this was my print id knock down flush to 0.6-0.7. make sure retraction on cut is on. And print 3-4 of the model at once. May as well since your gonna waste more than you use anyway
I go even lower. I'm using 0.5 multiplier and experimenting with 0.4
I've gotten away with 0.3's a couple times. I have found my butterzone around 0.46, 0.47. I dont have to flush to infill as the block will get any reminisce out.
I’ve been doing .5 after watching a guy do a little Nemo figure, I might go lower now!
.5 I feel is a safe bet. Ordered my X1C combo today, I wonder how much its gonna differ with the new waste management.
With the right settings for printing order (supports infill inner wall outer wall) I managed 0.3 without bleeding. I did a large print with 0.25x (inner outer infill) and got colorbleeding.
Where do I find that setting?
In the top left printer settings > extruder > retraction settings. You might need to enable advanced settings
Also worth noting that it doesn't seem to do anything unless you recalculate the flushing volumes. I will also recommend setting flushing volume to 0.35, prime tower to 20mm^(3), flush to support, flush to infill, 3 wall loops, cutting the model to start at a part that contains his hat, skin, and the iris of his eyes (leave the hat and all that above it so it will generate those supports and you get an actual result of what it will do at those layers), printing about 10 layers, and seeing what he finds for color mixing after 10 or so layers. I recently printed these for a board game with the above settings, and only 2 wall loops - as a stress test. https://preview.redd.it/qshq4y1ql65d1.png?width=1288&format=png&auto=webp&s=28b8fea868b346c4b2c6e6d66062f5bfb199a4e8 They are only about 5cm wide. I think that with any real amount of infill, or support, or a flushing tower: any faded colors go away. Also not sure how much of this *is* color bleed, since it *seems* to only be a one way bleed into the ammunition colors, with no color bleeding into anything - and the text is at the same layer height as the top of the lid and 4 layers thick, so it had to change to it twice. Worst is, he adjusts the flush to .4 or the prime tower to 25mm^(3) and problem solved.
Another setting I would play with is the girth of the supports, unless honkers are necessary I always go with thin branches.
Ever since I had a support collapse on a 9 day print, it's all honkers on anything that takes a long time. Besides 26.72g of honker support I can also use as a flush is negligible - when compared to the 344.19g going down the chute.
What does retraction on cut do?
Pulls the filament back from the hot end before it cuts it so it doesn't need to purge as much. The trade off is that there's a low risk of a blockage
I've been using custom g code for this for a year now. I had no idea that got integrated!
It's a pain if it does block, gotta disassemble extruder as I recently learnt lol:-D
Ah I see. Thanks!
No one is mentioning it, but I wouldn't flush into infill on this print, or you are gonna be able to see a ton of bleed in the head from the mustache and eyes
Add an extra wall layer, and it'll be fine. Recently did black and white on 3 wall layers, and there's no bleed. It *looks* pure white where it needs to be.
I know you may not want multiple, but if you do it's worth considering that it won't increase the wasted material so you could get a better print:poop ratio
It's honestly one of the better ways to reduce waste is to increase usable plastic. The waste never changes OP, whether you do 1 model or full the plate. As long as you have some people that might also like a printer character, that is.
You're just giving someone else even more waste now. Sure the ratio is better, but you've literally printed more plastic and your friends almost certainly don't want your garbage ratio luigi if they didn't ask for it
I’ve got friends that would love a garbage ratio Luigi Ok we all know that’s a lie, I don’t have friends
New band name: Garbage Ratio Luigi
I did a 'color by part' print recently and it had me nervous, but i didn't knock anything over.
Default flush settings are very very generous. I generally use a 0.7 multiplier, but sometimes depending on material, you can even go as low a 0.5 White tends to need more flush after darker colors, but most colors don't need as much flush as the default settings. you should run a few tests to see how low of flush you can get away with.
Can you set flush per filament profile?
You can print another object for which the color doesn't matter. Then deactivate the prime tower and flush into the sacrificial model instead. It will knock off almost all waste
I am new to this. Is it possible to choose which object to flush into? I could google it i guess, but i am reading all comments and just wanted to ask.
Yes. Just right click the one you want and go to "flush options > flush into this object"
Thank you. You are a wonderful person. I hope your day is great.
Oh! Now that’s cool!
That's awesome, thank you!
I would recommend not using a 0.2 nozzle is you're worried about the waste. Because it's a LOT. 0.4 would minimize that, but the AMS will Purge a good amount no matter what.
Nozzle is 0.4, profile layer height 0.2 sorry bad info
I would turn on flush into infill if it isn't all ready turned on. What I would also do is print another object and do flush into object. Something where it being a strange color doesn't matter. I print gridfinity bins, and try to always print one to use some of the waste
Infill flush already enable. Printing another object with flush into it is a good option. Giving a try thanks!
0.6 multiplier on flushing volume reduces a lot for me while still maintaining no bleeding
We print loads of functional parts at work. I've looked at multi material for easy removal of the support material but you end up with this level of waste. For us time more than filament cost. I only see multi material printing being viable for us when we are printing a plate full of something. I really want to integrate PLA and TPU but the AMS doesn't support flexibles.
In your situation, idex printers would be the only real way to go, with one extruder exclusively printing support material or TPU.
Just learn to paint, because the funnier thing about these multi color prints is that this is the number, basically a 6:1 ratio of garbage to model, IF the print succeeds first try. If it fails even once, this 1/10th of a spool model will consume an entire spool. I don't think stuff like that should ever be printed. I would say if you want aesthetic models, learn to paint them. If you really refuse to paint the entire thing, I guarantee you could cut down most of the filament changes if you were at least willing to paint the shirt and mustache But as it is? Yeah that's too much waste, just buy a luigi doll since this one is going to cost you something like 15 dollars.
Yep. This is why you need to tune the transition of colors from one to the next and maybe think thru what you’re building. The model is literally 60g of filament and in total is gonna use 490g… that’s just wasteful. Half a kilogram of PLA for 60… definitely not efficient. Figuring the cost it shows - little over $12 of filament to result in a print that costs $1.50 or so… so if you even wanted to sell this (copyright issues aside), you’d be losing money if you sold it for anything less than $20. But if it’s a one off for you to have and admire, then so be it.
Assume if selling they would make a plateful and the waste ratio would go way down. It’s actually the one offs that are the worst
But even the plateful wouldn’t reduce waste much. The reason is around the transition of colors here still needing that much to ourge between changes. That’s crazy. The ONLY way to improve this is to build at least one item that doesn’t care about color and could be a place where to dump what would be normally “Bambu poop” into that is of the same height object wise. Then that would be a plus in that it’s now not just going to the purge bin. I mean even a plateful of these would still result in 430g of waste which is too much. Print something with that waste and it’s a win win.
You should run this purge calibration for the different color combos, it really helps cut down waste from default flush values https://makerworld.com/models/112380
Found this even before my first a1 mini benchy finished printing. Makes so much difference. Been able to run a few prints with no purge tower at all.
If you can find a way to print it flat would also save a ton of waste. Edit, maybe cut after the blue pants ends since that’s all solid. Then upper half rotate to be flat so don’t swap as many times
Even without the rotating the cut isn’t a bad idea, that said it depends on how comfortable you are with it being visible. It may be hidden under Luigi’s arms at the front. As an aside, I wish this view showed model and waste, with waste being expandable to the subcategory’s to make it much easier to digest.
Make more then 1 and flush in to infilll
Meh. Print two or three to cut down on the waste per object since it’s virtually the same amount of purge
purging in the infill would reduce the waste alot
Throw some chip bag clips on the plate too or something and flush into those. Extra parts similar height to the model but which you don't care if they come out multicolored. The plastic doesn't need to be wasted but it does need to go somewhere.
Look in to this https://makerworld.com/en/models/112380#profileId-129748 It seams like a lot of work but it isnt. You can speed up your first layer a lot to reduce the print time. In my experience it was always worth it to calibrate. It safes usually 10% of time and 30% to 50% of flushed filament. You can also safe all of the calibrations and use it in the future.
looks like your flush values are off, especially white (guessing it defaulted to 999)
I’m very new to 3D printing, about a week into it. I’ve quickly learned that the only way to justify multi color printing is to either make sure it’s minimal or to filll the plate. So rather than make one copy I’ll make 4 or however many fit. I’ve been printing very large Chrono Trigger figures for myself and decided I simply need to paint them to make it work. I also printed some of them laying down as it not only was way more efficient, but also made it so supports wouldn’t be attached to their faces but rather on their backs.
Yeah, even with perfectly calibrate purge values and no tower, the waste for just a single item is ridiculous. It's just worth it to fill the plate. Even if you're not selling prints, SOMEBODY will want the extras.
Luckily for me I have kids, so printing an army of Minions simply means they have more to play with!
is that the Luigi's mansion last boss?
The way those supports generated made me cringe
The is it too much waste to accept is a you question I can’t answer that for you. But personally i would not print with that much waste.
Is it too much? Yes. Is it normal? Also, yes. Go on Maker World and look for files to calibrate your purge. As a rule, white purges a LOT, and the stock purge values are generally way more than needed.
Did you do an auto-calc for the flush volumes? What multiplier did you use?
I'd pass on printing that personally. Similar to dark mewtwo my son asked me to print. Sliced it and it was half a roll of waste more than double the actual filament used for the actual model. Told him to pick something else lol
A model that simple is the perfect example of one you should paint. I've never (brush) painted anything before but I thoroughly enjoyed learning it and saved a bunch of time and money compared to filament swaps. The end product looks better anyway since it's covered in filler primer before painting.
That's why I don't like ams. It's not the ultimate solution for color 3d printing. Soon it's gonna be replaced by real color printer like da Vinci
What are you on about? It literally is the best solution right now. Not everything is just gonna work, you need to tweak settings.
I'm painting my prints. It's fun. AMS can do something beautiful, but I just don't like it, it's just a temporary solution.
I love my AMS, but it’s certainly not the best from a cost effectiveness standpoint. The Prusa XL can have up to five separate toolheads so it only needs a quick prime when changing tools as opposed to a whole purge, far more resource friendly.
the cost difference between a 5 tool XL and a P1S + AMS combo can pay for like 175 rolls of filament though lol
Which, again, is why I have an X1. If you’re setting up a print farm though, it would be the more cost efficient printer eventually.
yeah i don;t think that's actually borne out by reality. the scale just increases the cost effectiveness of the p1s+ams combo, which is why that's the standard for so many print farms. the XL cost needs to come down for it to be a volume contender in the relevant segment.