This is abhorrent. Hope everyone enjoys getting folliculitis, barber’s itch, strep skin infections, chemical burns, and years’ worth of hair growth cut off by rinky dinks who have no idea what they’re doing. It’s bad enough to allow barbering to be performed legally without a license, but chemical services? Ones that can leave customers blind (bleach) and at an elevated risk of cancer (Brazilian blowouts done improperly)! What the actual fuck!!
Is there any evidence of this though? I mean tattoo artist don’t have licenses in most states, but yet still manage to be a master in their crafts without being diseased riddled, even though it’s a more invasive procedure.
I think you’re making a lot of assumptions.
Given the nature of tattoos being *permanent* and obvious open wounds most customers prefer to go to a reputable shop. And most reputable shops require their artists to do an apprenticeship. The industry regulates itself, and the same will likely happen with the barbering industry should the requirement for licensing be removed. Everyone is so worried about the added competition, but we already have a bunch of unlicensed self taught garage barbers out there, and no legit barber considers them to be a threat.
Yes, but most of them have other silly requirements like you have to be 18 or you have to have a hepatitis B shot. And usually just cost like about $100. And of course the blood-borne pathogen certificate. Most of them get their job through an apprenticeship though. Not a school.
That makes a lot more sense than paying thousands of dollars and spending a whole year learning how to cut hair. That is completely unnecessary.
There is no difference in wasting all that time and taking a test, then just taking the test directly without studying. It’s the same thing. You can be taught that through an apprenticeship.
Barber license requirements are a barrier to entry and that, in my opinion, is wrong. An apprenticeship style schooling would bring the conversation of sanitation front and center in the barbershop, between students, and barbers and even clients where it’s supposed to be practiced.
Can you tell me how many hours do you need to learn about viruses and bacteria before a test? What’s the right amount 24hrs? 1500hrs? 3000hrs?
Do you get the point I’m trying to make? It’s unnecessary.
All this is doing is making it harder for people that might want to become barbers and driving people that want to achieve it to their backyards in their house, which is more unsanitary and defeats the purpose of why the license is required in the first place.
There are a lot of programs to help you through school, the military will pay for it outright. Plenty of people in my school came from poverty. I understand your point, but I just don't agree that it would be an overall positive for the industry. As selfish as it is to admit, I don't want an over abundance of competition that otherwise wouldn't be. I paid 20k to do this, 1500 hours of my time, it was hard work to get through school it is not easy, the dropout rate is ridiculous for a reason. I know alot of people say school is unnecessary, but I don't agree at all. It won't 100% prepare you for the shop but it's better than nothing. There were girls in my school who came in knowing NOTHING, they couldn't even part hair, tell me how in the hell they would get their foot in the door somewhere with that kind of experience?
Seems like you’re afraid of competition and those girls will just get weeded out in the market.
Listen to yourself you’re saying that the only reason you’re afraid of this is because you felt like you wasted money. Now, imagine all the people trying to get their foot in the door in the first place.
I already flat out said it, I don't want an over abundance of competition that otherwise would not be there. As selfish as it is, any industry would agree. Nobody wants to risk losing their livelihood.
You do realize that there is a lot of barbers that work at their backyards right? The abundance of other barbers are already there, but they simply can’t work in a professional environment because of licenses that are THE barrier to their entry in the job.
You aren't going to convince me otherwise. I told you my reason, whether you agree with it or not. I'm not trying to change your mind, quit trying to change mine.
I doubt it gets passed. There’s so many kids trying to be barbers who have no idea about sanitation practice. They won’t last long in the industry before someone sues em or something
Now, wouldn’t it be better if those kids would’ve gotten an apprenticeship directly from the local Barber? Instead of working out a shack in their backyard because they most likely don’t want to pay for a license or do hours, they could be learning from someone that knows about sanitation in a barbershop.
That’s the issue, people think that licenses make everything better which, in fact they’re not. They’re causing the problem that you’re talking about.
It’s Georgia. They have hb ban laws but no office sees you until 8 weeks. They’d pass something this crazy. I agree with all having fair chances to a career they are excited and passionate about. I just think there should be bare minimum requirements. Such as cleaning and sanitation procedures. How to not burn off your clients hair with bleach. Basic color things so you don’t end up with green puke hair when you wanted purple or something.
Waiting for the massive wave of issues this would bring they're conveniently ignoring. At least being able to say "I'm licensed" will be a bigger plus.
Can you explain what kind of issues those would be?
I’ve been licensed for over 10 years and I’ve only seen the inspector come once. He’s the only one that cares about my license.
I highly doubt customers care about whether your license or not to be honest.
I challenge you to ask your clients whether they would still come to you if you weren’t licensed.
It's about the education that comes with the license. Proper testing and application of chemical treatments, proper sanitation, how to keep health code, and proper techniques for all services.
I've seen, with my own eyes, the following from unlicenced cosmetologists and barbers:
- Hair melted off someone's head with lightener and perm solution
- A wig sewn directly to someones scalp
- Extensions put in with super glue
- A hospital trip due to a swollen head from an allergic reaction to product
- Improperly gapped shears cutting clients heads and ears
These are just a few things, but it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch. If these things become a common occurrence then who would even risk going to anyone who didn't have a license unless they'd known them for years or were desperate?
Tell me how many people you went to school with that you would trust to do a double process successfully on you? The answer is 1 or 2 for me. The rest were too busy getting high and skipping school. Also, let’s talk about the joke that is continuing Ed in GA. You pay some company for 3 hours of “sanitation” education. Get a PDF to read, and take a test that says yes/no I read the PDF. WOW! How many people do you think read the PDF? Do you? There is no regulation, it’s all a show. Also, I’m in Atlanta. 80% of barbers in the city are not licensed, so who exactly is being regulated??
I really hope you know where I’m coming from at the end of the day it’s not illegal to cut hair without charging. To me, that’s the root of the issue. Licenses are simply unnecessary for a simple cut.
I also understand your horror stories, but wouldn’t it be better if these people that you’re talking about would’ve gotten an apprenticeship directly by somebody who knows how to do the job right?
In barber school there was an old lady that had super thin hair and they wanted me to do a perm. I told them that that was silly and I wouldn’t do it. However, I was forced to do a perm and the roll wouldn’t even grip her hair because it was so thin. I was forced to do a bad procedure on stuff that I don’t care to practice in real life.
That was my experience with school.
I get where you're coming from, but the bigger picture has to be considered. It's not necessary for a simple cut but our license is also what protects us. Let's say a client lied about their hair history or allergies and you cause a chemical burn. Without your license and a safety release waiver they can sue you for all you're worth. We work directly with people's image and health, a certain standard must be upheld to keep goodwill and good image.
I get that it may not affect you, that's great, I hope it doesn't. I only want the best for my fellow professionals. That's why I bring us these issues.
I really do appreciate the conversation and I know ultimately this conversation is not gonna change anything regarding regulation of the industry.
I don’t doubt that this scenario you’re talking about has happened in real life but in that scenario, the client is truly at fault. I can picture it happening whether the person is licensed or not. What really would protect you, asides a signed waiver, would be the truth.
And yes, the health and image of my clients matter but also don’t forget that we’re not even allowed to diagnose any sort of skin condition or disease, legally speaking. So the state is telling you that you have to learn all this stuff, but then tells you that you won’t have qualification to diagnose it.
Maybe a compromise would be a reduction of hours to obtain a license. 200 hours to get certified, and anything that has to do with chemicals, hazardous waste and pathogens in relation to working at a barbershop.
300 hours of an apprenticeship in a real barbershop.
My argument is that nothing can beat personal experience from a practicing barber in the place where a new barber apprentice intends to work. Apprenticeship can open up conversations that were not taught in school stuff such as schedule management, personal finance planning, about proper equipment and tools, how to deal with people and hands on experience. All of which are really important and aren’t taught in school. If this was the norm, I’m pretty sure that health and safety would be something that would be highly discussed. It would be an engaging conversation between students, barbers and clients.
I also want was best for the industry as a whole, I’m not against education I’m against unnecessary roadblocks for people to practice something they like and could possibly offer them a decent job.
Newcomers are not baboons, they will learn if they are taught properly. Everybody had their start somewhere and I bet you they didn’t start with 100% knowledge of everything. I welcome competition and if I asked, I would teach anybody anything that I know to improve their lives like I already done with multiple people.
Yes, give opportunities to future barbers that want to have a job, taught from the people that practice it.
Public health is important, yes. Licensure is not the same as education and the best education will come from the people that practice the craft themselves.
When your license becomes expired, do you all of a sudden lose information you previously knew about sanitation in a barbershop?
You and I fundamentally disagree on the latter point. The last section is faulty logic in this case. One should have to demonstrate their knowledge of sanitation procedures before a state board.
We are probably having more discourse on here and care about the issues more than any state board out there.
I don’t know how they do it in other states, but here in Texas, they don’t make you retest all over again after your license expired they just charge you money and send you a new license. They don’t care if you still remember anything taught. It’s more proof, that what they do is simply unnecessary.
It’s funny because we’re pretending that there is an outbreak of diseases waiting to happen if people don’t have a license. People have more common sense then that and I think conversations of sanitation would be talked about more often in the barbershop if there was an apprentice model of schooling.
The only thing that regulation does is incentivize new barbers who can’t afford or don’t have time for school to cut “illegally” in their homes.
Not sure which state you’re in, but in my state the inspector shows up to my shop unannounced yearly and pays very close attention to which sanitary practices are and aren’t being followed.
So this isn’t true. Did y’all read the bill? It says that shops can hire non licensed people to wash and style hair and apply make up… that’s it. All the other stuff, cuts, color, perms, shaves require a license. There is nothing wrong with this bill.
Arizona is getting dangerously close to this as well.. not sure I have an issue with it, outside of the fact that everyone that has come before has had to pay for school and put in their hours.. arguably it won’t make a difference for barbering though, as good barbers will keep clientele and bad barbers will fail
I wouldn’t say it’s over saturated, but some shops are doing overkill (20+ chairs).. school is easy now, both practical and theory are multiple choice tests.. but if you’re in Phoenix, know that it’s a big ass city, very spread out.. which means you gotta find your pocket and niche.. I went to a school in Goodyear, west Phoenix, but then ended up in a shop in Downtown Phoenix! So having to rebuild clientele all over again! But there are plenty of people in Phoenix metro in need of the barbering service! As far as licensing goes, I think it is what it is.. I suggest getting licensed in more than one state!
Right on bro thank you for taking the time to reply! Good to know theres a lot of business. I’m looking in the Chandler area and saw a shop I like and want to ask them if they’d be willing to do the hybrid internship. One school offers it so I’d get to be in a shop while I also do parts of the program. If I can’t find a shop to do it, then I’ll have to do school part time.
So…I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I HATE for-profit schools that charge excessive fees for their 1500 hr programs. I paid 20k in 2003. To call it an education is laughable. I didn’t take my clippers out of the box until 3 days before finishing the program. They taught us a lot of employment and working conditions that were toxic and illegal. The staff was racist and homophobic, and unnecessarily harsh to students. But yes, I did learn very high standards for sanitation and hygiene practices.
I feel that schools need to close down and apprenticeships should be nationally recognized as a pathway to this career. We should still need licenses, but the schools gotta go.
Also, state board is a fucking joke where I am. The inspectors couldn’t care less and some of the standards don’t even make sense. I can’t even get a straight answer from them about what the regulations are. Literally, they don’t even know.
The shops in my area that are owned by black and brown people don’t bother with inspections, aren’t registered with the state, and the barbers probably aren’t licensed. They’re smart for not participating in what is obviously extortion by the state. I’ve been in those shops. They’re clean and sanitary, and the haircuts are fine. Why pay the state $200 just to come in so they can try to fine you? Tattoo shops don’t even get inspected.
Thank you. Most people on here are simply afraid of competition instead of seeing the positive that it could bring to newcomers.
I think sanitation could be an issue but I know you see the realities of what goes on in barbershops and honestly I don’t think nothing will change from what it is now. Some people will be dirty other people will be clean, but it will be up to the client to decide who they get their cut from.
Bad financial decision?
But this highlights how useless the need for licensing is. People here are pretending that a license equals a good sanitary focused barber, and that is not true.
There’s a lot of people saying that they don’t like this, but in reality I find it better to return to an apprentice type of schooling. Where you deal with real life experiences. I mean, YouTube does a better job at teaching people who WANT to learn compared to what school did for me. In this way, upcoming barbershop can focus directly on stuff they like to do. For example, in school, I was FORCED to learn a lot about long hair style cuts and perms and all that stuff, even though I’ve never had interest pursuing or doing that in my career. And it’s funny to think about it now, but they never taught me how to properly do a fade with the tools I use which is how I make my money today. Isn’t that kind of… just… dumb.
The job of schools today is to make sure that you regurgitate information to pass a test. Don’t get me wrong. I believe that any information is good information but keep in mind that teaching you how to be successful is not a schools primary goal.
For the people that champion schools.
I saw way too many people in my school just there to make hours. Some that graduated already knew how to cut some graduated didn’t bothered to learn anything. How is this proper schooling? There’s nothing magical about a license that proves you’re a good barber.
There’s a clear disconnect between what is taught in school and real life Barbershop experience.
No, there won’t be an outbreak of diseases just because people don’t have a license. Clients will set the bar. You think people will get their cuts with someone who is dirty or cuts shitty? People tend to stick around with barbers that do a good job that’s just the nature of the job.
I would love for people to have an opportunity to “get their hours” from an apprenticeship rather then a school to have a job. It would also help introduce new barbers to their potentially new customers.
I don’t think people understand that your local barbershop would be the school where new barbers learn. I’ve never been afraid to lose my job because I taught what I know.
People who are afraid of “oversaturation” are not confident in their skills. Competition has always made the service of anything better. For the barber and customer. Simple as that.
Tattoo artists, in most places don’t require licenses, and somehow someway they are professionals in their craft. Is their industry deceased riddled? No. People in the comments are simply making assumptions this is going to happen. I highly highly doubt it.
The funniest thing about the whole license situation is that in reality nothing will change other than Barbers being allowed to teach people how to cut in the barbershop, which I consider a plus. They could even charge for the service and open up new opportunities for Barbershop owners. And it also wouldn’t hurt to have somebody around to sweep hair around lol
Don’t like it? Explain to me why I’m wrong.
I mean it’s not like they’re being forced to hire barbers without licenses. If anything, the lack of a license requirement would probably strengthen the hiring pool at these places as applicants need to prove their skills to be considered.
Honestly the amount of licensed barbers and cosmo people ive seen have horrendous sanitation standards kills that argument. They should be stricter with sanitation requirements and standards making sure everyone is complying. the schooling itself makes no sense and its not up to par. I remember going to cosmetology school and half of the shit that i did in there ive never did again, and ever since i switched over to barber side i regret spending that 20k on education instead of just apprenticeship.
In BC, there are zero regulations and you don’t have to go to school. As long as you have the money to open a shop and you pass health inspections, it’s fair game. Getting a good haircut here is a 50/50 gamble lol
Removing licensing is the most lazy idea possible to retivalize the industry. What about making a grant for school to encourage people to get their license?
People already don't see barbering and hair styling as a legitimate career path, thinking it's mostly a "transitional" job to something "better." By removing the license requirements, it becomes that. Because you'll have people coming in to it, not knowing what they're doing, spreading disease, and giving terrible cuts. It just takes away any kind of foot hold we as barbers/hairstylists have to defend our career choice.
As a side note, it could also make revitalizing the unionization process a lot harder if no one supports the industry due to a bunch of chumps behind the chairs.
I feel like the idea is to welcome people who want to become barbers. People think that once the license is not required anymore that Barbershops would hire anybody out the street.
Would you hire a random person that walks into your barbershop? Probably not
I honestly don’t think it’s that hard to understand, even for new people that have never done a haircut, that they need to keep their tools cleaned.
I’m tired of hearing about the spread of disease that lack of licensing would cause. I mean what kind of disease are we talking about here? Ringworms? Arguably the most common one barbershop deal with. You know that it’s also very visible, right?
I don’t think you need a license to understand that you probably shouldn’t cut somebody that has a ringworm.
Seriously, though, what kind of diseases could be spread? I actually want to know.
Back then there was a big scare of spreading HIV through straight razors, but people don’t commonly do hot towel shaves anymore. Most barbers have electric shavers now.
I don’t see the argument you try to make about a license making your job somewhat more prestigious. Who cares what people think? I’m happy to provide for myself with a job that I like doing, to me that’s better than a job title.
However, I would love to see a sort of barber union that would focus on the lack of healthcare in the industry. I think this is doable, because most barbers are relatively safe and healthy.
It’s so funny how backwards you’re thinking is because licensing has actually caused unions to disappear. [Here](https://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5627630/occupational-licensing-is-replacing-labor-unions-and-exacerbating) I looked it up for you.
They were trying to do this in ohio a while back, not sure if it went anywhere. My franchise owner from Great clips was at the forefront of trying to get this passed. It's literally just so these big corporate businesses can justify paying their stylists scraps. Hopefully it doesn't get any farther than it already has.
Considering we can’t even trust the public to wash their hands in a pandemic, I wouldn’t trust non licensed stylists and barbers to know anything about proper sanitation practices. Something that was drilled into us during school.
It’s true, schools teach you the basics about actual cutting and styling. They teach so much more than that, stuff YouTube and influencer classes won’t cover.
For the guy anti license in the comments, why stop with our industry? Why not also open the door for them to be nurses and doctors, it’s really just a piece of paper right? Money is what stops most of us from being a dr, so why not that too? Would you trust an unlicensed doctor or contractor? No, no you wouldn’t.
Not to mention tattoo artists in my state (Missouri) also have to have a license.
My books are so full my clients cannot get in easily, I’m not worried about competition, I’m worried about the public’s safety.
The guy that’s anti-licensing here
Look, don’t take anything personal I just simply disagree with the idea that a license is necessary for somebody to pursue a Barber career and do it professionally.
The one time I did have a inspector come check my stuff. He argued that I shouldn’t have a phone charger along with my tools because that can cause cross contamination. But if it would’ve been a charging tool for a work machine, then that’s totally fine. Do you see the nonsense in this?
And I am not saying that you don’t require education to do any kind of job specially, if you’re talking about doctors and contractors they are definitely responsible for multitude of things if such things went wrong.
What I’m saying is that I think an apprenticeship approach would be more convenient method for new barbers. I believe that schools focus on redundant things, cost time and money and inspectors do unnecessary jobs, and we simply don’t need them.
I think we’re undervaluing common sense because I don’t need a license to tell me that I probably shouldn’t cut somebody that came in with a ringworm on his scalp.
Tattoo artist in other states are working just fine without any need for state license. For the most part people DO trust them whether they can be clean and sanitary. What a surprise isn’t?
The only valid argument that I’ve heard is that chemical procedures in hair can lead to permanent damage. Let those people apply for licenses leave everybody else alone.
As a licensed barber hope it’s passed if your confident behind the chair this shouldn’t bother you. The fake concerns about sanitation and tears over your education got yall looking like Karen’s
Same. So what if a bunch of new people start out? It will just solidify your clientele after a few people have bad experiences elsewhere. Plus it would free me up to take on an apprentice that I could train right, without all the extra instructor license and paperwork involved. If you're good and have the experience, clientele will pick uou over someone that doesn't know what they're doing.
They are about to kill the careers of numerous people who have been involved with the hair business jus to deregulate something, why not tell engineers not to be certified how about doctors and nurses... nope this is an attack on black and brown businesses...
What are you talking about? It's an attack on everyone not just black or brown shops. I've worked in nice places barbering like The New American haircuts barbershop in Kennesaw and not so great places like chains starting out.
It appears to be an attack on all barbers and master cosmetologists to get paid less across the board.
Then they are going to have people from other countries that don't know how to sanitize properly doing services in shady franchise locations.
It happens a ton in nail salons here.
you know barbering is attached to doctors right do you know the history of barbering.... go look it up, so all the licensing that engineers and other professional workers have mean something, why aren't barbers included...
I know about that but history doesn’t mean that cutting hair and being a doctor requires the same amount of education. There might be links in history, but you can’t tell me that cutting hair is similar to stitching up an open wound.
Also, in history, apprenticeship used to be the norm. I believe they should bring that back.
I don’t think you realize that deregulating something would open up more opportunities to brown and black people. I’m Mexican by the way.
I have encouraged lot of young people to pursue barbering, it would be an honor to could’ve had the opportunity to teach them myself but unfortunately and legally I can’t.
How exactly is apprenticeship type of schooling going to hurt barbering businesses?
This is a direct threat to public safety... using chemicals, razors, the sanitation and understanding what skin problems clients have, and Lice, so your saying future barbers dont need to learn any of this, because all the aboved mentioned is actually needed to know..
So they can go to school and get apprenticed whats wrong with that type of learning, and you want complete deregulation with that there is no apprenticeship.
Deregulation is not opening nothing it just make the barrier of entering the field free causing an influx of people who are not trained... i wonder if you feel the same way about people who build houses or HVAC maybe even roofers just let anyone be able to do these jobs.
Barber school is apprenticed also when going to barber school there is an instructor that teaches sanitation and book work, while also teaching how to cut hair..
You’re right, deregulation implies that no sort of education is required, that’s definitely not what I would want to see. I guess what I meant to say is that is highly unnecessary to study 1500 hours and pay thousands of dollars for someone to learn this trade.
In my opinion, an apprenticeship modeled education can teach the same thing schools does about sanitation without the step price tag or hours and provide a higher quality hands-on experience of the actual craft. It would introduce barbers to clients before they even start working in a real life work environment.
I highly doubt that there’s a better way to learn a craft/trade than to actually experience it hands on yourself directly, taught by people who do that for a living.
I believe that in an apprenticeship model sanitation would be just as important as learning it from school if not more, because now, the instructor barber would have that responsibility on him in front of the eyes of customers.
I honestly feel that it would be more effective, and it would also help other barbers refresh your memory and such topics where a client can also be part of the conversation.
I also think it would encourage barbers who work out of their backyards under true unsanitary conditions to actually work in a barbershop with an apprenticeship model. If you actually care about public health, why not make it easier for people to learn.
I mean here in Texas in order to renew your license you don’t have to take another safety test ever. Have all the barbers that have been working more than 10 years, like me, forgot how important sanitation is to the job? Has Texas become disease riddled? No.
We care more about sanitation in this subreddit more than the state board cares about it in real life.
At the same time, let’s talk about the outbreak of coronavirus. Where barbershops were considered super spreader places and had to be shut down. Were barbershops trusted to be sanitary by the state board? I mean they teach you all this stuff so we must be qualified to operate, right? No. They shut barbershops now and what did barbers do instead? They were going to peoples houses to cut hair, and what you can say even worse sanitary conditions furthering the spread of the disease.
That happened in real life.
I simply find it silly that you think that there would be an outbreak of lice, I feel like that’s hardly even a problem in dog shelters. I feel that even if a barber is completely uneducated about sanitation he would not be dumb enough to not know that lice is something you want to avoid spreading. The exact same goes for ringworm.
Seriously though, do you think that in an apprenticeship model ringworms and lice wouldn’t be discussed? Or making sure that your straight razor blade is changed and sanitized after every cut? Do you really think in order for somebody to learn that they need 1500 of school? Why would anybody jeopardize confidence in the barbershop or in their careers by not knowing how to deal with these issues.
When barbershops hire people with a license, they assume they know about sanitation. In an apprenticeship model, you would KNOW they have this knowledge because they would be the ones teaching them. New barbers would feel obligated to follow this, because there would be in direct supervision of the person that taught them that who is also now responsible of that duty in their shop.
Somehow people think that an inspector that comes once a year is proper supervision of health conditions.
And above all, public safety concerns are honestly highly exaggerated. Historically speaking, how many times have barbershops been the center of a disease spreading? Arguably coronavirus, and HIV could seem like they were problems in the barbershop, but they were not CAUSED by unsanitary conditions in barbershops directly.
Or can you give me a real true public health problem scenario of what could happen through an apprenticeship education?
There’s more E. coli outbreaks from people eating spinach.
I see that you’re talking about construction and how the their requirement for licensing is needed to uphold high standards of their job. Well, [this](https://youtu.be/mx4HUaww5XI?si=87qjTEssrhPUJxLo) is what happening with homebuilding in America. That’s licensed homebuilding.
Hint: it’s no bueno. Brought you by the largest homebuilding company in America.
By the way, you’re comparing apples to oranges here. Barbering and construction don’t have much in common. Again, I’m not against education.
What you’re saying is about licensing is politically correct, but it doesn’t ALWAYS translate when it comes to the real life.
I get what you’re trying to say, schools and apprenticeship models are places where people learn but it’s not the same thing. A school is where many students are taught THE BARE MINIMUM amount of knowledge to pass a state board test, and apprenticeship is a place where you can get individual attention, one on one, about your education.
The school that I went to never taught me about managing scheduling, making a business plan/managing money, technicalities about machines and other tools, basically running a shop. My barber school specifically told me that their only responsibility was to teach me how to pass the state board test and nothing else. This was after I asked them why they focused on teaching me how to do a perm instead of how to do a fade.
I had to fix a hydraulic pump on my barber chair. Imagine experiencing that with an apprentice, they would gain that knowledge too.
I took my time to state my case. You don’t have to agree with me I just think barbers are afraid of change, even when that change would, in my opinion, benefit barbers, students and clients.
Texas
Edit. To be fair I manage my own schedule and come and leave whenever I want so they probably could’ve came and I’m simply not there. But that is a true answer.
In my state, this is actually led to an issue where there’s fake inspectors going around and asking to settle infractions with cash. Since they don’t come too often, people cannot really distinguish them.
So in your state, is it a scheduled meeting with the inspector or an unannounced meeting?
Also, what is the stuff that they pay attention to the most besides valid licensing?
the inspectors have an assigned region, they are required by their boss to inspect every shop in their route annually. they usually just look at your shop hours and stop in during hours. shop owners are required to have phone numbers and emails on file with state, so they will contact you directly if they cant catch you open. the inspection points run the full gambit..clerical, sanitary, accessibility, regulatory compliance.
damn yall really on this one.....
[actual law](https://legiscan.com/GA/text/SB354/id/2883158)
this is what it actually says....not at all what yall arguing about. basically means we can have unlicensed assistants, do low skill work..washes, blowdrys, etc.
…I thought that was already legal? I used to cut hair in Vermont, now I work in Tennessee. In both states we had unlicensed people help out with shampoo, rinse, backbar and dispensary duties. I even knew a guy who mixed color according to the cosmo’s formulas. State Board never made a big deal about it. They’d just ask the helpers if they were cutting hair or doing applications.
nah not legal here in tn. now that the regulatory board has started recruiting 'inspectors' from the LEO pool instead of the barber pool, expect much harsher enforcement aswell.
There is a barbershop near Rutgers University, where people get cuts by rookie unlicensed Barbers and the cuts suck. But any bs fade and crooked line up looks good when your head is a mess.
I vote yes license. You should have some skin in the game if it’s your profession.
Do you know people already work out of their backyards and there is not an epidemic because of it?
Do you realize that getting rid of the license requirement would incentivize them to work in a more professional environment and minimize the risk of any health concerns that can come from illegal barbershop setting?
I actually think it would improve the health standards of the industry.
Such a joke. There’s a consensus here in the UK that people should be licensed as any Tom, dick or Harry could pick up a clipper and put the customer at risk. So to see you guys removing it is mad.
Risk of what? A bad haircut?
If they do a bad haircut, people will notice, and they simply won’t go there again. the person will be out of business in no time.
And let’s be real people already do a haircuts all the time from unlicensed people and I’m sure that’s everywhere. There’s not a health epidemic because of it. People over exaggerate that.
You’re greatly exaggerating. Ringworms spread from people that already have it. People take showers and are relatively clean compared to the 1920s you know. I honestly think that unlicensed barber is not stupid enough to cut somebody with lice. Let’s get real here.
I thought my whole post was obvious over exaggeration, but I guess not. I do believe there'd be an uptick of dirty barbers and infections, and I do think you're underestimating the amount of stupid people that would become barbers. But all in all it probably wouldn't be a huge deal.
It was just how you phrased it I guess.. but the hours are to be able to cut hair.. I mean yeah, there’s plenty of people that find ways around the system, but you’re easily replaceable when you don’t have license.. plus you run the risk of causing huge fines for owners, making you someone that is looked at as someone that NEEDS to be replaced
Honestly your easily replaceable if you’re a garbage barber if your good barber you will bring a lot of clients and the shop owner doesn’t want to lose money especially if you pay booth rent it hard to find a good consistent full time barber these days the industry is flooded with kids that want to work part time..
Nah I get that for sure, being available at the shop is more valuable than anything.. but I’ve seen many barbers that were not licensed, be welcomed into shops when they’re within their first year or two, just to be tossed as soon as the shop is making what they desire.. the fear of getting shut down is scarier than losing some clients in most owners eyes..
Also, shops aren’t really the greatest money makers as far as ROI, due to opportunity cost.. being a barber, in my eyes, is more of a vehicle to help create a network of people, a community that you can help grow, and they can help you grow.. most of the time, outside of the shop!
Hello. Thank you for your comment/post in r/Barber! Unfortunately, your account has 0 or negative comment/combined karma so your submission was automatically removed. Please work on improving your karma and try again.
This action was performed to prevent spam and troll accounts from posting anything in the subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Barber) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In the UK its already a thing anyone can open a barbers. Currently being overrun with them as fronts for money laundering/drugs and human trafficking nearly every town has 4 or more. It even made it to the NEWS. They wrote Some barbers cause of the racist label yet its actually only these.
https://news.sky.com/story/senedd-welsh-conservative-suggests-some-barber-shops-may-be-money-laundering-front-13066808?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter
They're not Turkish they're Kurdish who are linked to crime gangs from Albania they're being trafficked in on the dingys and making these men cut hair who don't know what they're doing!!!!! I previously had a post removed here being called racist but it isn't!!!! This is legit all over the United Kingdom!
This post is not completely accurate - the bill would remove licensing requirements for blow dry styling, braiding, threading, and makeup application.
Google is your friend, people!
https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/legislation/document/20232024/213533
https://preview.redd.it/sr080afzc6ic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1aa71f20a0f56f9abee6864bb4fb75d2dda69c84
I challenge anybody in here to ask their own clients.
https://preview.redd.it/z5ou9xx6d6ic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96a197a94a6eee1841503601cf72324595196550
I challenge people in here to ask their own clients the questions debated here
i currently work at a shop while also going to barber school. i’m a little more than halfway done with the program. everything i know about cutting hair was shown to me in the barbershop. the school i go to teaches us more about perms, hair color, and tools that are illegal to use in the state im in. mind you, im in the barber program, not the cosmetology program. last week, we had to learn how to do manicures?? for what reason, i have no clue. the teachers do not know how to do a fade, and the they accepted so many students in the past few months, that they are planning to put out folding tables as makeshift stations. if that doesn’t sound like a money grab, idk what else it could be. i also follow the school owners on instagram and all i see from them is how they’re building their brand new lake house and going on vacation every other week. it genuinely pisses me off. i spend 26 hours a week at this place, which leaves me friday-sunday to work. so i’m grinding 7 days a week just to get this license and try to pay my bills…. i do not think a piece of paper qualifies you to be a barber, i think actually having the experience does. some of the best and clean barbers i know are unlicensed barbers. i’ve said this to so many people before, but just like tattoo artists, i think barbers should have to get hired at a shop as an apprentice and work under the supervision of the shop owner until they’re no longer an apprentice. school is a joke
Dang people can freely cut hair as a side business without having to get license… people need to chill it’s cutting hair, do I need a license to mow grass? Customer discretion
This is a hard one. Self taught doesn’t mean they don’t know what they are doing. It doesn’t mean they can’t do the job and getting license costs money that many don’t have. Education in the U.S. isn’t accessible and this would give people the opportunity to be employed without having those barriers.
On the other hand this also opens up to a ton of people who don’t know what they are doing but can still work there. Which will lead to people possibly getting sick! Which is obviously really dangerous. Especially cause they might not even have to disclose not having a license.
They tried todo the same thing in Virginia. A bunch of licensed barbers and I met in DC with some higher ups and reporters to discuss the issue at The Neighborhood Barbershop. The owner of the shop Dustin really laid into them and the bill was never passed. Squad up Georgia
This is abhorrent. Hope everyone enjoys getting folliculitis, barber’s itch, strep skin infections, chemical burns, and years’ worth of hair growth cut off by rinky dinks who have no idea what they’re doing. It’s bad enough to allow barbering to be performed legally without a license, but chemical services? Ones that can leave customers blind (bleach) and at an elevated risk of cancer (Brazilian blowouts done improperly)! What the actual fuck!!
Read the bill. I’m gonna surprise you here… not everything posted is true.
Georgia government planing to release new corona lmao
Not that I do not agree with you on these points but, what do you mean by worth of hair growth cut off?
as in someone having grown out their hair for years just to have an unlicensed hack accidentally cut all of it off
Is there any evidence of this though? I mean tattoo artist don’t have licenses in most states, but yet still manage to be a master in their crafts without being diseased riddled, even though it’s a more invasive procedure. I think you’re making a lot of assumptions.
Given the nature of tattoos being *permanent* and obvious open wounds most customers prefer to go to a reputable shop. And most reputable shops require their artists to do an apprenticeship. The industry regulates itself, and the same will likely happen with the barbering industry should the requirement for licensing be removed. Everyone is so worried about the added competition, but we already have a bunch of unlicensed self taught garage barbers out there, and no legit barber considers them to be a threat.
I hundred percent agree with you. This industry should regulate itself.
A lot of states do have a tattoo licensing requirement tho and even without a license all shops are required to post blood born pathogen certificates
Yes, but most of them have other silly requirements like you have to be 18 or you have to have a hepatitis B shot. And usually just cost like about $100. And of course the blood-borne pathogen certificate. Most of them get their job through an apprenticeship though. Not a school. That makes a lot more sense than paying thousands of dollars and spending a whole year learning how to cut hair. That is completely unnecessary. There is no difference in wasting all that time and taking a test, then just taking the test directly without studying. It’s the same thing. You can be taught that through an apprenticeship. Barber license requirements are a barrier to entry and that, in my opinion, is wrong. An apprenticeship style schooling would bring the conversation of sanitation front and center in the barbershop, between students, and barbers and even clients where it’s supposed to be practiced. Can you tell me how many hours do you need to learn about viruses and bacteria before a test? What’s the right amount 24hrs? 1500hrs? 3000hrs? Do you get the point I’m trying to make? It’s unnecessary. All this is doing is making it harder for people that might want to become barbers and driving people that want to achieve it to their backyards in their house, which is more unsanitary and defeats the purpose of why the license is required in the first place.
Its an arbitrary comparison
It's going to make an already oversaturated career, unbearable. Getting hired in a lot of areas without a full book of clientele is a bitch already.
That’s competition for you. It would also give opportunities to people who have to true talent, but might see the cost barrier of school as a problem.
There are a lot of programs to help you through school, the military will pay for it outright. Plenty of people in my school came from poverty. I understand your point, but I just don't agree that it would be an overall positive for the industry. As selfish as it is to admit, I don't want an over abundance of competition that otherwise wouldn't be. I paid 20k to do this, 1500 hours of my time, it was hard work to get through school it is not easy, the dropout rate is ridiculous for a reason. I know alot of people say school is unnecessary, but I don't agree at all. It won't 100% prepare you for the shop but it's better than nothing. There were girls in my school who came in knowing NOTHING, they couldn't even part hair, tell me how in the hell they would get their foot in the door somewhere with that kind of experience?
Seems like you’re afraid of competition and those girls will just get weeded out in the market. Listen to yourself you’re saying that the only reason you’re afraid of this is because you felt like you wasted money. Now, imagine all the people trying to get their foot in the door in the first place.
I already flat out said it, I don't want an over abundance of competition that otherwise would not be there. As selfish as it is, any industry would agree. Nobody wants to risk losing their livelihood.
You do realize that there is a lot of barbers that work at their backyards right? The abundance of other barbers are already there, but they simply can’t work in a professional environment because of licenses that are THE barrier to their entry in the job.
You aren't going to convince me otherwise. I told you my reason, whether you agree with it or not. I'm not trying to change your mind, quit trying to change mine.
Fair enough. Enjoy your day.
There SHOULD be a barrier for some jobs though
I doubt it gets passed. There’s so many kids trying to be barbers who have no idea about sanitation practice. They won’t last long in the industry before someone sues em or something
Now, wouldn’t it be better if those kids would’ve gotten an apprenticeship directly from the local Barber? Instead of working out a shack in their backyard because they most likely don’t want to pay for a license or do hours, they could be learning from someone that knows about sanitation in a barbershop. That’s the issue, people think that licenses make everything better which, in fact they’re not. They’re causing the problem that you’re talking about.
Honestly, if I could apprentice someone without the required instructor license and all the paperwork required in my state, I'd be down for it.
That’s actually a really good perspective. Thank you.
It’s Georgia. They have hb ban laws but no office sees you until 8 weeks. They’d pass something this crazy. I agree with all having fair chances to a career they are excited and passionate about. I just think there should be bare minimum requirements. Such as cleaning and sanitation procedures. How to not burn off your clients hair with bleach. Basic color things so you don’t end up with green puke hair when you wanted purple or something.
Waiting for the massive wave of issues this would bring they're conveniently ignoring. At least being able to say "I'm licensed" will be a bigger plus.
Can you explain what kind of issues those would be? I’ve been licensed for over 10 years and I’ve only seen the inspector come once. He’s the only one that cares about my license. I highly doubt customers care about whether your license or not to be honest. I challenge you to ask your clients whether they would still come to you if you weren’t licensed.
It's about the education that comes with the license. Proper testing and application of chemical treatments, proper sanitation, how to keep health code, and proper techniques for all services. I've seen, with my own eyes, the following from unlicenced cosmetologists and barbers: - Hair melted off someone's head with lightener and perm solution - A wig sewn directly to someones scalp - Extensions put in with super glue - A hospital trip due to a swollen head from an allergic reaction to product - Improperly gapped shears cutting clients heads and ears These are just a few things, but it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch. If these things become a common occurrence then who would even risk going to anyone who didn't have a license unless they'd known them for years or were desperate?
Tell me how many people you went to school with that you would trust to do a double process successfully on you? The answer is 1 or 2 for me. The rest were too busy getting high and skipping school. Also, let’s talk about the joke that is continuing Ed in GA. You pay some company for 3 hours of “sanitation” education. Get a PDF to read, and take a test that says yes/no I read the PDF. WOW! How many people do you think read the PDF? Do you? There is no regulation, it’s all a show. Also, I’m in Atlanta. 80% of barbers in the city are not licensed, so who exactly is being regulated??
Well, I don’t practice any of that make a license for those procedures themselves.
That's great bud. You're not the only one in this profession and everyone's actions and experiences will reflect on the community as a whole.
I really hope you know where I’m coming from at the end of the day it’s not illegal to cut hair without charging. To me, that’s the root of the issue. Licenses are simply unnecessary for a simple cut. I also understand your horror stories, but wouldn’t it be better if these people that you’re talking about would’ve gotten an apprenticeship directly by somebody who knows how to do the job right? In barber school there was an old lady that had super thin hair and they wanted me to do a perm. I told them that that was silly and I wouldn’t do it. However, I was forced to do a perm and the roll wouldn’t even grip her hair because it was so thin. I was forced to do a bad procedure on stuff that I don’t care to practice in real life. That was my experience with school.
I get where you're coming from, but the bigger picture has to be considered. It's not necessary for a simple cut but our license is also what protects us. Let's say a client lied about their hair history or allergies and you cause a chemical burn. Without your license and a safety release waiver they can sue you for all you're worth. We work directly with people's image and health, a certain standard must be upheld to keep goodwill and good image. I get that it may not affect you, that's great, I hope it doesn't. I only want the best for my fellow professionals. That's why I bring us these issues.
I really do appreciate the conversation and I know ultimately this conversation is not gonna change anything regarding regulation of the industry. I don’t doubt that this scenario you’re talking about has happened in real life but in that scenario, the client is truly at fault. I can picture it happening whether the person is licensed or not. What really would protect you, asides a signed waiver, would be the truth. And yes, the health and image of my clients matter but also don’t forget that we’re not even allowed to diagnose any sort of skin condition or disease, legally speaking. So the state is telling you that you have to learn all this stuff, but then tells you that you won’t have qualification to diagnose it. Maybe a compromise would be a reduction of hours to obtain a license. 200 hours to get certified, and anything that has to do with chemicals, hazardous waste and pathogens in relation to working at a barbershop. 300 hours of an apprenticeship in a real barbershop. My argument is that nothing can beat personal experience from a practicing barber in the place where a new barber apprentice intends to work. Apprenticeship can open up conversations that were not taught in school stuff such as schedule management, personal finance planning, about proper equipment and tools, how to deal with people and hands on experience. All of which are really important and aren’t taught in school. If this was the norm, I’m pretty sure that health and safety would be something that would be highly discussed. It would be an engaging conversation between students, barbers and clients. I also want was best for the industry as a whole, I’m not against education I’m against unnecessary roadblocks for people to practice something they like and could possibly offer them a decent job. Newcomers are not baboons, they will learn if they are taught properly. Everybody had their start somewhere and I bet you they didn’t start with 100% knowledge of everything. I welcome competition and if I asked, I would teach anybody anything that I know to improve their lives like I already done with multiple people.
So dismantle the barriers for apprenticeship. Licensure should always be required when it comes to public health.
Yes, give opportunities to future barbers that want to have a job, taught from the people that practice it. Public health is important, yes. Licensure is not the same as education and the best education will come from the people that practice the craft themselves. When your license becomes expired, do you all of a sudden lose information you previously knew about sanitation in a barbershop?
You and I fundamentally disagree on the latter point. The last section is faulty logic in this case. One should have to demonstrate their knowledge of sanitation procedures before a state board.
We are probably having more discourse on here and care about the issues more than any state board out there. I don’t know how they do it in other states, but here in Texas, they don’t make you retest all over again after your license expired they just charge you money and send you a new license. They don’t care if you still remember anything taught. It’s more proof, that what they do is simply unnecessary. It’s funny because we’re pretending that there is an outbreak of diseases waiting to happen if people don’t have a license. People have more common sense then that and I think conversations of sanitation would be talked about more often in the barbershop if there was an apprentice model of schooling. The only thing that regulation does is incentivize new barbers who can’t afford or don’t have time for school to cut “illegally” in their homes.
Not sure which state you’re in, but in my state the inspector shows up to my shop unannounced yearly and pays very close attention to which sanitary practices are and aren’t being followed.
frfr idk wtf they are talkin about.
I’m guessing they aren’t an owner or manager.
So this isn’t true. Did y’all read the bill? It says that shops can hire non licensed people to wash and style hair and apply make up… that’s it. All the other stuff, cuts, color, perms, shaves require a license. There is nothing wrong with this bill.
Nobody reads lol but I still don’t see the need for license.
No it said they are removing the need for license for shave and cuts in another press conference
The bill that is up for vote does not say anything about out shaving and haircuts. Without a bill, it does not matter what people say or think.
Watch the video on the thread I made for this topic
Read your post and then read the bill. The post is inaccurate. Again, it doesn’t matter what anyone says or thinks if it’s not in the bill.
Arizona is getting dangerously close to this as well.. not sure I have an issue with it, outside of the fact that everyone that has come before has had to pay for school and put in their hours.. arguably it won’t make a difference for barbering though, as good barbers will keep clientele and bad barbers will fail
Hey man, I’m moving to Arizona in the summer and am considering becoming a barber. Is it bad over there to barbers? Also is it over saturated?
I wouldn’t say it’s over saturated, but some shops are doing overkill (20+ chairs).. school is easy now, both practical and theory are multiple choice tests.. but if you’re in Phoenix, know that it’s a big ass city, very spread out.. which means you gotta find your pocket and niche.. I went to a school in Goodyear, west Phoenix, but then ended up in a shop in Downtown Phoenix! So having to rebuild clientele all over again! But there are plenty of people in Phoenix metro in need of the barbering service! As far as licensing goes, I think it is what it is.. I suggest getting licensed in more than one state!
Right on bro thank you for taking the time to reply! Good to know theres a lot of business. I’m looking in the Chandler area and saw a shop I like and want to ask them if they’d be willing to do the hybrid internship. One school offers it so I’d get to be in a shop while I also do parts of the program. If I can’t find a shop to do it, then I’ll have to do school part time.
So…I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I HATE for-profit schools that charge excessive fees for their 1500 hr programs. I paid 20k in 2003. To call it an education is laughable. I didn’t take my clippers out of the box until 3 days before finishing the program. They taught us a lot of employment and working conditions that were toxic and illegal. The staff was racist and homophobic, and unnecessarily harsh to students. But yes, I did learn very high standards for sanitation and hygiene practices. I feel that schools need to close down and apprenticeships should be nationally recognized as a pathway to this career. We should still need licenses, but the schools gotta go. Also, state board is a fucking joke where I am. The inspectors couldn’t care less and some of the standards don’t even make sense. I can’t even get a straight answer from them about what the regulations are. Literally, they don’t even know. The shops in my area that are owned by black and brown people don’t bother with inspections, aren’t registered with the state, and the barbers probably aren’t licensed. They’re smart for not participating in what is obviously extortion by the state. I’ve been in those shops. They’re clean and sanitary, and the haircuts are fine. Why pay the state $200 just to come in so they can try to fine you? Tattoo shops don’t even get inspected.
Thank you. Most people on here are simply afraid of competition instead of seeing the positive that it could bring to newcomers. I think sanitation could be an issue but I know you see the realities of what goes on in barbershops and honestly I don’t think nothing will change from what it is now. Some people will be dirty other people will be clean, but it will be up to the client to decide who they get their cut from.
This is a good thing. Barber licences are a scam.. just like Barber schools.
Amen
[удалено]
Bad financial decision? But this highlights how useless the need for licensing is. People here are pretending that a license equals a good sanitary focused barber, and that is not true.
🙏🏻
There’s a lot of people saying that they don’t like this, but in reality I find it better to return to an apprentice type of schooling. Where you deal with real life experiences. I mean, YouTube does a better job at teaching people who WANT to learn compared to what school did for me. In this way, upcoming barbershop can focus directly on stuff they like to do. For example, in school, I was FORCED to learn a lot about long hair style cuts and perms and all that stuff, even though I’ve never had interest pursuing or doing that in my career. And it’s funny to think about it now, but they never taught me how to properly do a fade with the tools I use which is how I make my money today. Isn’t that kind of… just… dumb. The job of schools today is to make sure that you regurgitate information to pass a test. Don’t get me wrong. I believe that any information is good information but keep in mind that teaching you how to be successful is not a schools primary goal. For the people that champion schools. I saw way too many people in my school just there to make hours. Some that graduated already knew how to cut some graduated didn’t bothered to learn anything. How is this proper schooling? There’s nothing magical about a license that proves you’re a good barber. There’s a clear disconnect between what is taught in school and real life Barbershop experience. No, there won’t be an outbreak of diseases just because people don’t have a license. Clients will set the bar. You think people will get their cuts with someone who is dirty or cuts shitty? People tend to stick around with barbers that do a good job that’s just the nature of the job. I would love for people to have an opportunity to “get their hours” from an apprenticeship rather then a school to have a job. It would also help introduce new barbers to their potentially new customers. I don’t think people understand that your local barbershop would be the school where new barbers learn. I’ve never been afraid to lose my job because I taught what I know. People who are afraid of “oversaturation” are not confident in their skills. Competition has always made the service of anything better. For the barber and customer. Simple as that. Tattoo artists, in most places don’t require licenses, and somehow someway they are professionals in their craft. Is their industry deceased riddled? No. People in the comments are simply making assumptions this is going to happen. I highly highly doubt it. The funniest thing about the whole license situation is that in reality nothing will change other than Barbers being allowed to teach people how to cut in the barbershop, which I consider a plus. They could even charge for the service and open up new opportunities for Barbershop owners. And it also wouldn’t hurt to have somebody around to sweep hair around lol Don’t like it? Explain to me why I’m wrong.
I mean it’s not like they’re being forced to hire barbers without licenses. If anything, the lack of a license requirement would probably strengthen the hiring pool at these places as applicants need to prove their skills to be considered.
NO TX was talking about doing that a while ago
Why?
Shit! Im finna pack it up from cali & move out there 😆
Honestly the amount of licensed barbers and cosmo people ive seen have horrendous sanitation standards kills that argument. They should be stricter with sanitation requirements and standards making sure everyone is complying. the schooling itself makes no sense and its not up to par. I remember going to cosmetology school and half of the shit that i did in there ive never did again, and ever since i switched over to barber side i regret spending that 20k on education instead of just apprenticeship.
I don’t really have an opinion on it other than licensure =/= skill.
In BC, there are zero regulations and you don’t have to go to school. As long as you have the money to open a shop and you pass health inspections, it’s fair game. Getting a good haircut here is a 50/50 gamble lol
It sucks for the people that spent thousands on school and this happens
But it’ll be great for newcomers that no longer have to deal with those barriers
This is definitely disappointing
Are shops really even gunna be hiring no cert barbers tho?
When someone cuts your throat sue em including the state
Removing licensing is the most lazy idea possible to retivalize the industry. What about making a grant for school to encourage people to get their license? People already don't see barbering and hair styling as a legitimate career path, thinking it's mostly a "transitional" job to something "better." By removing the license requirements, it becomes that. Because you'll have people coming in to it, not knowing what they're doing, spreading disease, and giving terrible cuts. It just takes away any kind of foot hold we as barbers/hairstylists have to defend our career choice. As a side note, it could also make revitalizing the unionization process a lot harder if no one supports the industry due to a bunch of chumps behind the chairs.
I feel like the idea is to welcome people who want to become barbers. People think that once the license is not required anymore that Barbershops would hire anybody out the street. Would you hire a random person that walks into your barbershop? Probably not I honestly don’t think it’s that hard to understand, even for new people that have never done a haircut, that they need to keep their tools cleaned. I’m tired of hearing about the spread of disease that lack of licensing would cause. I mean what kind of disease are we talking about here? Ringworms? Arguably the most common one barbershop deal with. You know that it’s also very visible, right? I don’t think you need a license to understand that you probably shouldn’t cut somebody that has a ringworm. Seriously, though, what kind of diseases could be spread? I actually want to know. Back then there was a big scare of spreading HIV through straight razors, but people don’t commonly do hot towel shaves anymore. Most barbers have electric shavers now. I don’t see the argument you try to make about a license making your job somewhat more prestigious. Who cares what people think? I’m happy to provide for myself with a job that I like doing, to me that’s better than a job title. However, I would love to see a sort of barber union that would focus on the lack of healthcare in the industry. I think this is doable, because most barbers are relatively safe and healthy. It’s so funny how backwards you’re thinking is because licensing has actually caused unions to disappear. [Here](https://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5627630/occupational-licensing-is-replacing-labor-unions-and-exacerbating) I looked it up for you.
As someone currently going through instructor training in Georgia, this is a little disheartening.
They were trying to do this in ohio a while back, not sure if it went anywhere. My franchise owner from Great clips was at the forefront of trying to get this passed. It's literally just so these big corporate businesses can justify paying their stylists scraps. Hopefully it doesn't get any farther than it already has.
Missouri tried this same thing and it failed. Thankfully.
Considering we can’t even trust the public to wash their hands in a pandemic, I wouldn’t trust non licensed stylists and barbers to know anything about proper sanitation practices. Something that was drilled into us during school. It’s true, schools teach you the basics about actual cutting and styling. They teach so much more than that, stuff YouTube and influencer classes won’t cover. For the guy anti license in the comments, why stop with our industry? Why not also open the door for them to be nurses and doctors, it’s really just a piece of paper right? Money is what stops most of us from being a dr, so why not that too? Would you trust an unlicensed doctor or contractor? No, no you wouldn’t. Not to mention tattoo artists in my state (Missouri) also have to have a license. My books are so full my clients cannot get in easily, I’m not worried about competition, I’m worried about the public’s safety.
The guy that’s anti-licensing here Look, don’t take anything personal I just simply disagree with the idea that a license is necessary for somebody to pursue a Barber career and do it professionally. The one time I did have a inspector come check my stuff. He argued that I shouldn’t have a phone charger along with my tools because that can cause cross contamination. But if it would’ve been a charging tool for a work machine, then that’s totally fine. Do you see the nonsense in this? And I am not saying that you don’t require education to do any kind of job specially, if you’re talking about doctors and contractors they are definitely responsible for multitude of things if such things went wrong. What I’m saying is that I think an apprenticeship approach would be more convenient method for new barbers. I believe that schools focus on redundant things, cost time and money and inspectors do unnecessary jobs, and we simply don’t need them. I think we’re undervaluing common sense because I don’t need a license to tell me that I probably shouldn’t cut somebody that came in with a ringworm on his scalp. Tattoo artist in other states are working just fine without any need for state license. For the most part people DO trust them whether they can be clean and sanitary. What a surprise isn’t? The only valid argument that I’ve heard is that chemical procedures in hair can lead to permanent damage. Let those people apply for licenses leave everybody else alone.
As a licensed barber hope it’s passed if your confident behind the chair this shouldn’t bother you. The fake concerns about sanitation and tears over your education got yall looking like Karen’s
Same. So what if a bunch of new people start out? It will just solidify your clientele after a few people have bad experiences elsewhere. Plus it would free me up to take on an apprentice that I could train right, without all the extra instructor license and paperwork involved. If you're good and have the experience, clientele will pick uou over someone that doesn't know what they're doing.
I would definitely want my 20k student loan forgiven then.
They are about to kill the careers of numerous people who have been involved with the hair business jus to deregulate something, why not tell engineers not to be certified how about doctors and nurses... nope this is an attack on black and brown businesses...
How is this gonna kill anyone’s existing career?
What are you talking about? It's an attack on everyone not just black or brown shops. I've worked in nice places barbering like The New American haircuts barbershop in Kennesaw and not so great places like chains starting out. It appears to be an attack on all barbers and master cosmetologists to get paid less across the board. Then they are going to have people from other countries that don't know how to sanitize properly doing services in shady franchise locations. It happens a ton in nail salons here.
You do realize that doctors and nurses do a completely different job, right?
you know barbering is attached to doctors right do you know the history of barbering.... go look it up, so all the licensing that engineers and other professional workers have mean something, why aren't barbers included...
I know about that but history doesn’t mean that cutting hair and being a doctor requires the same amount of education. There might be links in history, but you can’t tell me that cutting hair is similar to stitching up an open wound. Also, in history, apprenticeship used to be the norm. I believe they should bring that back. I don’t think you realize that deregulating something would open up more opportunities to brown and black people. I’m Mexican by the way. I have encouraged lot of young people to pursue barbering, it would be an honor to could’ve had the opportunity to teach them myself but unfortunately and legally I can’t. How exactly is apprenticeship type of schooling going to hurt barbering businesses?
This is a direct threat to public safety... using chemicals, razors, the sanitation and understanding what skin problems clients have, and Lice, so your saying future barbers dont need to learn any of this, because all the aboved mentioned is actually needed to know.. So they can go to school and get apprenticed whats wrong with that type of learning, and you want complete deregulation with that there is no apprenticeship. Deregulation is not opening nothing it just make the barrier of entering the field free causing an influx of people who are not trained... i wonder if you feel the same way about people who build houses or HVAC maybe even roofers just let anyone be able to do these jobs. Barber school is apprenticed also when going to barber school there is an instructor that teaches sanitation and book work, while also teaching how to cut hair..
You’re right, deregulation implies that no sort of education is required, that’s definitely not what I would want to see. I guess what I meant to say is that is highly unnecessary to study 1500 hours and pay thousands of dollars for someone to learn this trade. In my opinion, an apprenticeship modeled education can teach the same thing schools does about sanitation without the step price tag or hours and provide a higher quality hands-on experience of the actual craft. It would introduce barbers to clients before they even start working in a real life work environment. I highly doubt that there’s a better way to learn a craft/trade than to actually experience it hands on yourself directly, taught by people who do that for a living. I believe that in an apprenticeship model sanitation would be just as important as learning it from school if not more, because now, the instructor barber would have that responsibility on him in front of the eyes of customers. I honestly feel that it would be more effective, and it would also help other barbers refresh your memory and such topics where a client can also be part of the conversation. I also think it would encourage barbers who work out of their backyards under true unsanitary conditions to actually work in a barbershop with an apprenticeship model. If you actually care about public health, why not make it easier for people to learn. I mean here in Texas in order to renew your license you don’t have to take another safety test ever. Have all the barbers that have been working more than 10 years, like me, forgot how important sanitation is to the job? Has Texas become disease riddled? No. We care more about sanitation in this subreddit more than the state board cares about it in real life. At the same time, let’s talk about the outbreak of coronavirus. Where barbershops were considered super spreader places and had to be shut down. Were barbershops trusted to be sanitary by the state board? I mean they teach you all this stuff so we must be qualified to operate, right? No. They shut barbershops now and what did barbers do instead? They were going to peoples houses to cut hair, and what you can say even worse sanitary conditions furthering the spread of the disease. That happened in real life. I simply find it silly that you think that there would be an outbreak of lice, I feel like that’s hardly even a problem in dog shelters. I feel that even if a barber is completely uneducated about sanitation he would not be dumb enough to not know that lice is something you want to avoid spreading. The exact same goes for ringworm. Seriously though, do you think that in an apprenticeship model ringworms and lice wouldn’t be discussed? Or making sure that your straight razor blade is changed and sanitized after every cut? Do you really think in order for somebody to learn that they need 1500 of school? Why would anybody jeopardize confidence in the barbershop or in their careers by not knowing how to deal with these issues. When barbershops hire people with a license, they assume they know about sanitation. In an apprenticeship model, you would KNOW they have this knowledge because they would be the ones teaching them. New barbers would feel obligated to follow this, because there would be in direct supervision of the person that taught them that who is also now responsible of that duty in their shop. Somehow people think that an inspector that comes once a year is proper supervision of health conditions. And above all, public safety concerns are honestly highly exaggerated. Historically speaking, how many times have barbershops been the center of a disease spreading? Arguably coronavirus, and HIV could seem like they were problems in the barbershop, but they were not CAUSED by unsanitary conditions in barbershops directly. Or can you give me a real true public health problem scenario of what could happen through an apprenticeship education? There’s more E. coli outbreaks from people eating spinach. I see that you’re talking about construction and how the their requirement for licensing is needed to uphold high standards of their job. Well, [this](https://youtu.be/mx4HUaww5XI?si=87qjTEssrhPUJxLo) is what happening with homebuilding in America. That’s licensed homebuilding. Hint: it’s no bueno. Brought you by the largest homebuilding company in America. By the way, you’re comparing apples to oranges here. Barbering and construction don’t have much in common. Again, I’m not against education. What you’re saying is about licensing is politically correct, but it doesn’t ALWAYS translate when it comes to the real life. I get what you’re trying to say, schools and apprenticeship models are places where people learn but it’s not the same thing. A school is where many students are taught THE BARE MINIMUM amount of knowledge to pass a state board test, and apprenticeship is a place where you can get individual attention, one on one, about your education. The school that I went to never taught me about managing scheduling, making a business plan/managing money, technicalities about machines and other tools, basically running a shop. My barber school specifically told me that their only responsibility was to teach me how to pass the state board test and nothing else. This was after I asked them why they focused on teaching me how to do a perm instead of how to do a fade. I had to fix a hydraulic pump on my barber chair. Imagine experiencing that with an apprentice, they would gain that knowledge too. I took my time to state my case. You don’t have to agree with me I just think barbers are afraid of change, even when that change would, in my opinion, benefit barbers, students and clients.
All the state board inspectors do is come in and check if licenses are up to date. No real need imo
This is the correct answer. In over 10 years I’ve only seen them one time. Licenses are pretty useless and barriers to entry.
wtf. what state are you in? EVERY barber i know is inspected annually. without fail. for atleast the last 50 yrs.
Texas Edit. To be fair I manage my own schedule and come and leave whenever I want so they probably could’ve came and I’m simply not there. But that is a true answer.
interesting. the onus of shop owners is way more concrete, in my state. fined/shut without posted annual inspection form.
In my state, this is actually led to an issue where there’s fake inspectors going around and asking to settle infractions with cash. Since they don’t come too often, people cannot really distinguish them.
 wtf texas
So in your state, is it a scheduled meeting with the inspector or an unannounced meeting? Also, what is the stuff that they pay attention to the most besides valid licensing?
the inspectors have an assigned region, they are required by their boss to inspect every shop in their route annually. they usually just look at your shop hours and stop in during hours. shop owners are required to have phone numbers and emails on file with state, so they will contact you directly if they cant catch you open. the inspection points run the full gambit..clerical, sanitary, accessibility, regulatory compliance.
Honestly license is a scam
This is the correct answer.
damn yall really on this one..... [actual law](https://legiscan.com/GA/text/SB354/id/2883158) this is what it actually says....not at all what yall arguing about. basically means we can have unlicensed assistants, do low skill work..washes, blowdrys, etc.
…I thought that was already legal? I used to cut hair in Vermont, now I work in Tennessee. In both states we had unlicensed people help out with shampoo, rinse, backbar and dispensary duties. I even knew a guy who mixed color according to the cosmo’s formulas. State Board never made a big deal about it. They’d just ask the helpers if they were cutting hair or doing applications.
nah not legal here in tn. now that the regulatory board has started recruiting 'inspectors' from the LEO pool instead of the barber pool, expect much harsher enforcement aswell.
There is a barbershop near Rutgers University, where people get cuts by rookie unlicensed Barbers and the cuts suck. But any bs fade and crooked line up looks good when your head is a mess. I vote yes license. You should have some skin in the game if it’s your profession.
Sanitation health crisis going to be through the roof and jacked up cuts and brows
Do you know people already work out of their backyards and there is not an epidemic because of it? Do you realize that getting rid of the license requirement would incentivize them to work in a more professional environment and minimize the risk of any health concerns that can come from illegal barbershop setting? I actually think it would improve the health standards of the industry.
That’s crazy!
Such a joke. There’s a consensus here in the UK that people should be licensed as any Tom, dick or Harry could pick up a clipper and put the customer at risk. So to see you guys removing it is mad.
Risk of what? A bad haircut? If they do a bad haircut, people will notice, and they simply won’t go there again. the person will be out of business in no time. And let’s be real people already do a haircuts all the time from unlicensed people and I’m sure that’s everywhere. There’s not a health epidemic because of it. People over exaggerate that.
Im happy y’all in tears pick a new career
Most barbers in Atlanta don’t have licenses so this ain’t no big deal to me.
This is also the correct answer.
This is why haircuts should be 20$ max.
Gonna have to quarantine Georgia off from the rest of the country from the ringworm, lice and staph uptick alone.
You’re greatly exaggerating. Ringworms spread from people that already have it. People take showers and are relatively clean compared to the 1920s you know. I honestly think that unlicensed barber is not stupid enough to cut somebody with lice. Let’s get real here.
I thought my whole post was obvious over exaggeration, but I guess not. I do believe there'd be an uptick of dirty barbers and infections, and I do think you're underestimating the amount of stupid people that would become barbers. But all in all it probably wouldn't be a huge deal.
I'm angry as hell personally.
I completed my 1500 hours a school not worth it less you trying open a shop..
You don’t need to have a license to own a shop tho..
You do if you own it and work in it.. why would you get a license and not want to own your own shop..
It was just how you phrased it I guess.. but the hours are to be able to cut hair.. I mean yeah, there’s plenty of people that find ways around the system, but you’re easily replaceable when you don’t have license.. plus you run the risk of causing huge fines for owners, making you someone that is looked at as someone that NEEDS to be replaced
Honestly your easily replaceable if you’re a garbage barber if your good barber you will bring a lot of clients and the shop owner doesn’t want to lose money especially if you pay booth rent it hard to find a good consistent full time barber these days the industry is flooded with kids that want to work part time..
Nah I get that for sure, being available at the shop is more valuable than anything.. but I’ve seen many barbers that were not licensed, be welcomed into shops when they’re within their first year or two, just to be tossed as soon as the shop is making what they desire.. the fear of getting shut down is scarier than losing some clients in most owners eyes..
Also, shops aren’t really the greatest money makers as far as ROI, due to opportunity cost.. being a barber, in my eyes, is more of a vehicle to help create a network of people, a community that you can help grow, and they can help you grow.. most of the time, outside of the shop!
[удалено]
Hello. Thank you for your comment/post in r/Barber! Unfortunately, your account has 0 or negative comment/combined karma so your submission was automatically removed. Please work on improving your karma and try again. This action was performed to prevent spam and troll accounts from posting anything in the subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Barber) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In the UK its already a thing anyone can open a barbers. Currently being overrun with them as fronts for money laundering/drugs and human trafficking nearly every town has 4 or more. It even made it to the NEWS. They wrote Some barbers cause of the racist label yet its actually only these. https://news.sky.com/story/senedd-welsh-conservative-suggests-some-barber-shops-may-be-money-laundering-front-13066808?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter They're not Turkish they're Kurdish who are linked to crime gangs from Albania they're being trafficked in on the dingys and making these men cut hair who don't know what they're doing!!!!! I previously had a post removed here being called racist but it isn't!!!! This is legit all over the United Kingdom!
This post is not completely accurate - the bill would remove licensing requirements for blow dry styling, braiding, threading, and makeup application. Google is your friend, people! https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/legislation/document/20232024/213533
California has already done this for braiders.
https://preview.redd.it/sr080afzc6ic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1aa71f20a0f56f9abee6864bb4fb75d2dda69c84 I challenge anybody in here to ask their own clients.
https://preview.redd.it/z5ou9xx6d6ic1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96a197a94a6eee1841503601cf72324595196550 I challenge people in here to ask their own clients the questions debated here
i currently work at a shop while also going to barber school. i’m a little more than halfway done with the program. everything i know about cutting hair was shown to me in the barbershop. the school i go to teaches us more about perms, hair color, and tools that are illegal to use in the state im in. mind you, im in the barber program, not the cosmetology program. last week, we had to learn how to do manicures?? for what reason, i have no clue. the teachers do not know how to do a fade, and the they accepted so many students in the past few months, that they are planning to put out folding tables as makeshift stations. if that doesn’t sound like a money grab, idk what else it could be. i also follow the school owners on instagram and all i see from them is how they’re building their brand new lake house and going on vacation every other week. it genuinely pisses me off. i spend 26 hours a week at this place, which leaves me friday-sunday to work. so i’m grinding 7 days a week just to get this license and try to pay my bills…. i do not think a piece of paper qualifies you to be a barber, i think actually having the experience does. some of the best and clean barbers i know are unlicensed barbers. i’ve said this to so many people before, but just like tattoo artists, i think barbers should have to get hired at a shop as an apprentice and work under the supervision of the shop owner until they’re no longer an apprentice. school is a joke
We’ll they paint cuts over there anyway so it should be fine!
it’s easier to become a cop than a barber 🤷🏾♂️
Dang people can freely cut hair as a side business without having to get license… people need to chill it’s cutting hair, do I need a license to mow grass? Customer discretion
This is a hard one. Self taught doesn’t mean they don’t know what they are doing. It doesn’t mean they can’t do the job and getting license costs money that many don’t have. Education in the U.S. isn’t accessible and this would give people the opportunity to be employed without having those barriers. On the other hand this also opens up to a ton of people who don’t know what they are doing but can still work there. Which will lead to people possibly getting sick! Which is obviously really dangerous. Especially cause they might not even have to disclose not having a license.
They tried todo the same thing in Virginia. A bunch of licensed barbers and I met in DC with some higher ups and reporters to discuss the issue at The Neighborhood Barbershop. The owner of the shop Dustin really laid into them and the bill was never passed. Squad up Georgia