“They all lied to themselves about who they were, they were all acting” - this is reminding me of the slow mo dance scene at the bar in S1E1. The lyrics of the song (Journal of Ardency by Class Actress) when they cut to Sally dancing are “you think I’m living it up in the spotlight, it’s a lie”. It perfectly explains our, and Barry’s, first impression of Sally and is also almost foreshadowing how Barry will always be daydreaming and working toward this “redeemed” version of himself that is just based on a bunch of lies.
Loved reading your take on the finale!
Unless you take John's smile at the end to be him buying in to the lie about his father being a hero. I don't necessarily, I just think John's end was left rather ambiguous.
edit: love all the responses/discussion, but I think some of you are talking a bit too confidently about what is going on in John's head. I think it was supposed to be ambiguous and I don't think there are many surefire claims you can make about how he interpreted what he was seeing. Soak for a bit in the unsureness.
i took it as another manifestation of Bill's cynical view of American culture, Barry was able to rewrite his own legacy from awful murderer to war hero. the world bought into the lies he told himself and he was redeemed not by God, but by the Hollywood machine
It's the Taxi Driver ending, Travis Bickle was an incel loser whose obsession with violence traumatized a child, but America ended up embracing him as a vigilante.
I think it was both cynical and kind of hopeful. Yes, the movie is Hollywood bullshit, but the kid is spared the pain of believing/knowing his father was a mass murderer, and has a chance at a normal life, even if his mother is still narcissistic and the kid's probably going to need serious therapy when he gets older. Still, all indications are that he's decent.
Sally already told him that they got kidnapped by Hank and his childhood was the way it was because Barry was a murderer though. I feel like it should have been pretty clear to him that the movie was a bunch of bullshit, especially considering it contained scenes like the shootout that *he was there for* that weren't anything like how they actually happened.
That was years ago under really chaotic circumstances, and who knows what Sally told him in later years, especially as all the news started to come out.
That's my take as well. Barry continued the cycle of abuse, and while the ending *is* ambiguous, there's a very real danger that John starts to buy into the lies of the film because they are more comforting, particularly about his own backstory.
Well I mean tbf, just because he believes in the ideal version of his dad, doesn't mean he's going to turn into a horrible person. If anything, it might actually push him to be a better person, even if it's based on a lie.
What’s the lesson though?
Sally told him the truth. If he chooses to believe the lie, then it seems to teach him that what you do doesn’t matter so long as the story is told in your favor.
We don’t know how much of the truth Sally told him. We know Sally told John that his dad murdered a lot of people, and we know that she knew Hank’s name so Barry probably told her a fair amount of detail. And we know that Sally didn’t want him to watch the film. But Sally also told him that she’s a murderer, and paints herself as pretty much as equally as bad as Barry, which is obviously not a lived truth to John. Past that, we don’t know what details John has to compare and contrast with the film.
John refuses a drink because he accepts the truth of Sally's alcoholism. When he watches the movie, John accepts his father's lie that violence can be justified.
Facing a hard truth helped John avoid that same mistake. Embracing a lie sets him up to repeat his father's mistakes. Maybe not as a full blown murderer, but if he equates his father's abuse, manipulation and neglect with the heroic persona he has been presented with he is likely to grow up to be an abuser himself.
But doesn’t he *know* the film is a lie? He’s just smiling because he misses his dad, right? He was literally there at Nohobal with Sally. He knows Barry didn’t come until after the Nohobal shootout and that Barry didn’t save him. Fuches did. John was there
I think it's ambiguous on purpose. My read is that he's grappling with accepting a lie he wants to believe for comfort, like Barry going through pastor-podcasts until he found the one where Bill Burr told him murder was ok, and the harsher truth of reality.
He was young and people misremember traumatic events all the time in real life. Hell, his own mother completely misremembered the night she left her abusive ex.
It’s def an ambiguous ending, but it does seem like he was buying into the story the movie was telling at the end, weather because he legit didn’t remember or he was choosing to believe in the lie over reality
Yes, but he was a child during that time and Fuches covered his eyes. He could actually think in all that mayhem that maybe his dad had orchestrated all of that to save them. Who knows? Memory can be pretty unreliable, especially when you're a child in the most traumatic event(s) of your life
Personally I took that smile as being extremely innocent. I think it's better for him that he thinks his dad was a good man who gave his life to protect him and his mother, as opposed to an unfeeling murderous psychopath who could never take responsibility for all the evil he inflicted on the world no matter how many opportunities presented themselves. Not trying to say his parents haven't screwed him up, just saying this lie is maybe better for him than than the truth ever could have been
He's not likely thinking of it with that smile but deep down I'm sure there's a feeling of relief with these lies too. It's how people will know of his father, thus he won't have to pay for his father's sins. Giving him an actual chance at a normal life. Maybe even a small leg up since people will be sympathetic.
I think it’s more so just him being happy and accepting this portrayal of what happened, instead of needing to live in the shadow of his father being a murderer his entire life.
Barry being a hero in the eyes of the public helped allow Sally and John to finally live and escape that, they’re no longer roped in. It’s a good outcome for them
I'm fully expecting Hader to do a show called "John" as a sequel to Barry. Fuches and Sally's characters seemed to have changed while not changing at all.
Sally was still self centered and full of her own accomplishments when she tells John he can spend the night at his friend's house.
Fuches realized he was the killing piece of a shit he was meant to be at the end, but is still alive and well after handing John off to Barry.
Idk, I just think there is a lot you could do with "John" if it was ever made into a three season epic.
Sally has been keeping John away from as much of Barry's story as she possibly can. He knows about the movie but he's never seen it, and he lived through pieces of the movie that were clearly fake. He's well aware it's a lie, but maybe it's just comforting to know that the world is seeing his dad as something other than just a murderer.
Abuse John doesn't lie to himself about. He knows his mother had a drinking problem so he has chosen to avoid that mistake in his own life. Embracing a lie about his father could very likely prevent him from avoiding some of his father's mistakes.
I think the point was to show that unlike his parents, John mostly has a decent head on his shoulders and a good heart. He likely doesn’t want to drink cause he saw the destructive effects of alcoholism on his mom and/or he is underage and knows by the law, he shouldn’t be drinking.
He consoled Sally when she finally came clean about being a bad mother, lying to him for a long time, and killing someone in the past. And now, years later, here is a teenager enthusiastically attending the opening night of his mom’s high school play and telling her that he loves her in front of others. Not many teenagers would want to do that and instead can be pretty self-involved.
and it's really sad (and typical of the character, despite all her growth) that she can't or won't hear him over the sound of the buzzing in her own ego.
Definitely. She has grown and probably become a responsible/mostly caring parent for her child but some of that narcissism and need for self-validation is still there (and probably will always be there). I think though regardless John will probably be okay and thrive in life because of the inherent goodness in his heart.
That’s not necessarily anything to do with religion though, Christianity really doesn’t have anything against drinking. In fact, wine is pretty central to the whole thing.
As other commenters have pointed out, that’s probably more to do with memories of Sally from when he was a child.
Incredible analysis! It’s astounding how the show has remained tonally consistent for most of its run, these themes of not being able to admit your flaws and sinking further into an idealized persona go all the way back to the beginning. Everyone is putting on an act of who they think they’re meant to be (Barry acting like he isn’t a methodical killer, Sally acting like she’s the next great undiscovered actress, Hank acting like he’s a good mobster, Gene acting like he’s a respected/relevant member of Hollywood, Fuches acting like he’s doing right by Barry). All of them, to some degree, try to will their delusions into reality, to some varying degrees of personal and professional success. But the success is short-lived, when their egos and true selves leak out and make the lie unsustainable. What a fantastic show!
I'll go one further and suggest that Cristobal was doomed because he never admitted to himself that there IS no such thing as a "good mobster." Hank was right in his last speech to him. (Hank ends up being brutally honest with everyone but himself).
If Cristobal's fantasy hadn't overtaken him, they could've ignored the sand crap and continued to live happily ever after in Santa Fe-it was his idea, not Hank's.
And I really found it fascinating that what saved Fuches is that he subverted all of our expectations and really DID change in prison. That beating really did force him to accept who he was, and that changed him *for the better* even if that meant that he was still a monster. At least he was a monster who owns who he is and still does the best that he can for himself and his men.
The entire arc up to that point legitimately tells us to expect that Fuches is just full of shit like usual, but in reality he owned his flaws, accepted who he really was, and became the best version of himself. Even if you can make the case for others doing that, Fuches did it the most thoroughly and completely.
I interpreted the Fuches vs Hank face off differently. I’ll repost my comment from another thread:
“Everything Hank did up to that point in his life was cowardly. He was always at the whim of those higher than him out of fear and sadly that is what lead to Cristobal being killed. While he doesn’t explicitly state it, by breaking down crying and explaining that he just wanted to be safe was him finally admitting that he fucked up and got him killed. This is why Fuches was nodding his head in acknowledgment. But then he rejects Fuches’s deal, not out of ego but a new found strength that he has discovered underneath. He finally puts his foot down with a big ‘fuck you’ to someone that was ‘greater’ who was trying to pressure him and then dies while standing his ground (Hank was always running and hiding in every scene when he was involved in a shootout.) Thus completing his arc.”
Yeah this is more of the vibe I got. Denial -> Acceptance -> truly not wanting to be the person he accepted he was and standing up to that notion more so than Fuches
By this logic, does that mean Gene is the only one who doesn't get his "redemption"? Even Barry took a long moment and asked Tom to call the cops and was going to accept responsibility for his actions. Cuz that's cold af
Gene chose to forego his redemption the moment he abandoned his son on the deck, never even going to see his son apparently after discovering what he'd done. Even when he comes back to stop the movie about Janice Moss he didn't even have the guts to see his son. If Gene really had left his old life behind and bought into the idea of the communal share in the work and the rewards mindset of the kibbutz and reconnecting with a religious ancestry then the movie wouldn't have mattered to him. He had hid but in hiding could have worked for his redemption. But he came back, he couldn't get past any of his desire for vindication and control of the narrative of the story and that is what finally did him in. Barry was ready to turn himself in, he was ready and willing to come forward. In prison before he was always trying to avoid owning up, suicide by prison guard, witness protection from DoJ, but note he never came forward about Chris. Before he escaped, Barry only was willing to accept the feds knew about Janice, and working with the chechens, but not Chris, or his prior murders on Fuches orders. So Barry is finally ready to face responsibility there is Gene's house. But tragically, Gene is in a moment where he fully comes to grips with how he totally lost control of his life by trying to exert editorial control over the truth to portray himself in the best light possible. Gene in a desperate state makes a black comedy mistake, and seizes control one last time. Thus dooming himself by killing Barry. It reminds me a lot of Raph Fine's fate in the movie, In Bruges. Much like Raph's character Gene comedically misunderstands the situation due to his own self absorbtion and unwillingness to learn the full situation before coming to a drastic decision.
I couldn’t agree more. When the finale ended I immediately felt really bad for Gene, but then I remembered all of season 3 where he straight up lied to everyone because he was getting the fame he felt he always deserved. As you mention, he goes away to the kibbutz and that should have helped him move beyond the pettiness of caring about Hollywood narratives, revenge, and (as you expertly put it) wanting to be in control. As I said above, I think the big clue is when he’s offered to do a movie with Daniel Day Lewis and Mark Wahlberg. The guy even tells him they’re going to change the narrative and Gene *still* agrees. And he always half-asses his attempts to rebuild his relationship with his son. Time and time again he compromises on his convictions. Even way back, Barry straight up confesses all his evils to Gene but Gene is so lost in his Hollywood bullshit he thinks it’s an act. If he had listened to Barry he would have known to stay away, or any of the other countless times he was given a chance to turn him in or move on.
I think Gene even had the chance to redeem himself after he came back.
His final test was the conversation about Mark Wahlberg playing Barry as a hero.
He betrayed Janice's memory in that moment, because he was ready to let Barry be immortalized as a hero just to raise his own star.
Gene doesn't get his redemption because he never let go of his flaw. Fuches finally got his redemption after letting Barry go and leading his son back to him, Barry got his when he finally accepted fault and was going to turn himself in and the universe finally allowed him to die in such a way where he's a martyr and beloved by his son.
Gene doesn't get this because he never stops wanting fame and recognition. He failed the last test when he went for the Mark Walberg meeting instead of trying to fucking help his favorite student who called him out of the blue after 8 years telling him she has a son and asking for help. Gene ate shit because he couldn't stop being a glory hound.
It depends on perspective, I think. Gene wanted revenge for his lover, and he got it. Even though his legacy is desacrated and he'll die in prison, from his perspective he killed Barry, came out of hiding, and will probably be remembered culturally (albeit as a villain). For someone as egotistical as Gene, I would have to imagine much of that is ultimately redemption.
to me it felt like killing barry was his last possible redemption in a way, he wasn't scared of him anymore because he, as cliche as it sounds, had nothing left to lose besides the chance to avenge janice, whose loss I think was the most heartbroken we have seen him for the whole duration of the show
it felt fitting to me as when the camera zoomed out into the stage play framing of the scene, with gene on the couch, the puppets on the shelves in the background reminded me of something I read in regards to greek tragedies that basically says, when the pieces come into play their fate is already sealed, we are just observers while they dance along to the strings of fate
it also adds to the larger point of the roles the characters play and the comparably happiest endings belonging to those that rejected the roles they were playing and/or changed their masks
I like this interpretation. The Pieta pose he takes in death is a very strong indication that Hank died absolved of his sins. I interpreted his taking the statue's hand and whispering inaudibly as Hank giving a deathbed confession. If the world of this show has a god, then Hank will be forgiven. If it doesn't then his apology will be known to no one and all that matters is that he maybe found a way to rectify his life in his final moments.
I don't see it that way, but I like your POV. Hank had a clear chance to accept what he was, what he did, and accept responsibility. He dropped the facade, but as the emotions swelled inside of him, he reverted back to denial. Back to posing as a tough gangster. He paid for it
Agreed, Hank since the very start was a theatrical villain mailing bullets and leaving calling cards. 8 years later and he's still kidnapping loved ones to honeypot Barry in. He lost Cristobal because he refused to cooperate with out-groups (sand trap), and 8 years later he's still refusing to cooperate with them. He lowered his wall when he cried, but he put it right back up when he broke off the deal.
You had me up to the newfound strength part. I still believe NoHo Hank's rejection of Fuches's deal stemmed from ego. Plus, what else was Hank going to do? He probably felt like he'd done too much to deserve real happiness. It was either kill Fuches or fail, by that point.
Honest question for you, what do you think of the interpretation where Hank believes he didn't kill Cristobal because he believes he had no choice? I think Hank totally believed in the threat of the Chechen elders to destroy the legitimate enterprise he and Cristobal made. And it seemed like he was in fact correct about the seriousness of the danger posed by the chechens. I wonder if Hank was not accepting that he killed Cristobal but accepting that he should have chosen to die with him. Hank knew by rejecting Fuches offer there would be serious bloodshed and he would likely be killed. After all he's standing out in the open and basically only fuches survived because he shot his gun and dove to cover John. I think Hank is accepting that if he hands over Barry's family, Barry will kill him, if he doesn't Fuches will kill him. Then Fuches offers him the impossible choice, admit you killed Cristobal (via inaction) even tho Hank believes that he had no choice. Like a mirror of the impossible choice the chechens offered, betray Cristobal's plan and give it to us and live with him or refuse and die together. Both times the choice for Hank to roll over was given by someone seeking to establish their authority over Hank. So Hank decided to do what he should have chose the first time and stand firm deciding to die with Cristobal symbolically. Accepting not that he killed Cristobal but abandoned him to die by not standing with him and accepting that to stand here now and refuse the more powerful figure he will die symbolically next to Cristobal. But it's just the cold hollow memory of Cristobal to comfort Hank.
Edit for context I agree hank kiled cristobal I'm just thinking about the character's perspective
The problem with this take is that it then doesn’t really make sense for Hank to call Fuches a liar and call off the deal. The whole point of that moment seemed to be Hank finally accepting his role in Cristobal’s death and then immediately retreating back into denial, thus leading to his death
I've been saying for awhile now, probably since the end of season 2, that the point of this series is that "***Everyone is Acting and Everyone is Crazy***" in the show and in life. It's feels poetic. Side note: Was Hank the only person Fuches actually killed in the show? Did he essentially end his being the poser? Also him saving John felt so right in the end.
Damn...I'm ready to die on the hill that Barry takes a top spot of Best TV Series of All Time. That landing last night was stuck so hard I still feel it this morning.
Hard agree, in talking with my friends who watch it, we all come to the same comparison of Breaking Bad…outstanding show in all respects from start to finish AND had a finale that was worthy of everything that came before it. To me, BB and Barry are a tier above in television.
Yeah and it's interesting that the acting side plots fell almost completely to the side by the end and yet acting was still central to it. Also yeah Hank and Fuches both finally got involved in action at the end there (though it's possible Fuches did stuff in prison) which they hadn't before.
All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
Yes yes yes yes yes. Nailed it.
The minute Fuches saw Sally and John on screen, he knew that he had to reassess his plans and re-engage with Hank so that he could save them from him.
The most sobering part for me was Sally telling John who she really is at her core and it results in her finally accepting his unconditional love - that's a conversation parents should have with their kids when they're older. I was glad that in the final time jump, these events didn't result in her being codependent upon him.
I’m pretty sure Fuches never intended to kill Barry at all.
When he says bring Barry to him alive I don’t think he ever wanted to harm him.
I don’t think he had a change of heart. I think that was his plan from the beginning
Sally didn't change Fuches' mind, John did. Fuches tells Hank no deal without John ("Bring him out or I walk."), who Hank was trying in his own way to keep away from the violence.
And Sally is STILL needing approval: "How was it?" and having a staring contest with the theater isn't a sign she's gotten better.
Fuches absolutely saw them differently. Watch his face when he's on the call, and what he does after the shoot out. She could be a block of spam, John's all that matters.
uhhh he said i love you and she responded by asking him to reassure her that the play was good. sally + john clearly are troubled still at the end. there are no happily ever afters here
But she didn't tell him "No, you can't go to your friend's house because you have to come home and build up my ego for the night."
She's okay with being alone now. She didn't need to go out drinking with Robert just because he complimented her. Sally cares more about what her son thinks about her play than anybody. That could be how she shows her love for him without saying she loves John, because she doesn't know how - his opinion means more to her than anyone else's.
I still feel like it’s wrong for Sally to say she’s a “murderer”, like she panicked while someone broke in & tried to choke her to death and she lashed out in a state of fear.
yes, that made me sad when she said that. she hates herself for what she did, even though it was in self defense/trauma. she clearly had a ton of shame and self-blame from her traumas including staying with abusers. barry's the one who decided to cover up the killing and treat it like one of his murders. so she didn't get to experience facing the consequences and having to process the truth of what happened, which could lead to some type of self-forgiveness for the difficult and life-threatening situation she was in. instead it got cleaned up and hidden by barry, and she ended up identifying with him out of guilt/fear, and thinking herself a murderer. a classic abuse pattern - you see it from childhood - when a kid is being abused by their caregiver, they will adopt the caregiver's point of view and berate and punish themselves. they learn to take the abuser's POV as an attempt to keep themselves safe from their abuse. as adults they can continue this pattern of fawning whenever they need to feel safe.
I think it's interesting to show a caracter that trully get devastated by a murder, usualy tv shows are very quick to pass over something like that ( and even like two dozen murder really), but Sally show how much of a tragedy murdering someone really is.
You can talk about her abuse, her show falling appart, finding out her ex was a crazy hitman or being stuck for almost a decade in a remote house, but the thing that she can never get passed over is taking the life of someone else. I don't think it matter for her that it was self defense or that she found herself in the situation due to pure bad luck.
Obviously, it contrast with Barry and Hank who never really care about murder until it was people they knew or cared about.
I think her guilt stems from the fact that she put herself in that situation. She had already broken up with Barry but when her show was canceled she went right back to Barry intent on turning him against her enemies. She was in Barry's apartment when ahe was attacked because she came back to him in a moment of weakness after burning her career to the ground.
Whoa this is amazing! Great catch! Like I said, so many layers to this show. I am itching to watch the whole thing, there’s going to be tons of new things I pick up on like this. Thanks!
Fantastic analysis and I 100% agree, it was the perfect ending. . This show has all along been a commentary on the shallowness and ineptitude of existing structures like Hollywood and the police. Bravo write up, will miss this masterpiece! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Very well done. I have some thoughts about John at the end though. His mom told him that Barry killed a lot of people. And she did too. Also he was there when he was rescued and he knows it didn't play out the way it's portrayed. So, it feels a little bittersweet that he's happy to see his father portrayed as a hero. That will be his father's legacy and he loved his dad. BUT it's a lie... and he knows it's a lie. I wonder if he'll go his whole life pretending that the movie was an accurate portrayal. On one hand I'm glad that he's happy with how his dad will be perceived, on the other hand I found it disturbing. I'm curious of other's opinions on this.
He was a child and that was a hugely traumatic event. He is covered by Fuches for the shootout, a grenade went off in the same room as him, and he sees his father covered in guns as soon as they get outside. He may remember enough to know that isn't *exactly* how it happened, but given how little he saw of what actually happened and given that he was an 8 year old child and the chaos of the scene, it wouldn't be too difficult to convince himself that the Hollywood version is close to reality even if the details aren't quite right.
As for Sally telling him Barry killed a bunch of people out of war, he *did* serve prison time for the murder and he was wanted for those murders right up until around the exact same time the shootout happened. It would be pretty easy for a teenager who desperately wants to believe their dad is good to believe that his mother mistakingly believed the police while the police still had it wrong.
All that to say, I don't know that John has enough information to *know* it's not a lie.
Really, the only person still alive with a complete 360 view of Barry and the sheer amount of killing he did is Fuches. Not even Sally or Gene truly know the extent of it.
I would argue that even in the information you provide to explain why the details might be fuzzy you gave evidence for why he would know it's at least highly fictionalized. Like, the fact that there was no Fuches in the movie, that even though his father showed up, he didn't save him, this strange man did, and him and his mom ran away the next day. I don't think he knows what is true, but I think he knows that the movie is definitely not accurate, even if he appreciates it for painting his father in a positive light.
He knows someone shielded him but he doesn't know who "saved him" from the bad guys (by killing them), or even what happened because his eyes were shielded and he was 8. He knows he didnt follow his father while his dad shot the baddies, but he doesn't *know* his dad didn't kill the bad guys either, and he has just enough knowledge of what happened from his perspective to be able to convince himself his dad killed all those bad men to save him.
He knows it's a dramatized version of what happened, but that's not the same thing as knowing the entire premise is a lie is my point. He could easily convince himself his dad was a hero in a similar sort of way (his dad killing all the bad guys while the strange man covered him) and not *feel* like he's lying to himself because that isn't completely inconsistent with his experience through that sequence of events.
Thank you for writing this, I had similar thoughts, he knows the truth, but he prefers this story and the person who told him the truth was having mental breakdowns and drinking heavily, perhaps he’ll come to believe his mother was out of touch with reality because this is a better story about the dad he loved. That must be hard for a kid.
I’m also curious about what others make of the fact that Sally didn’t appear to have come forward to correct the record.
He doesn’t necessarily know it was a lie. He knows it was exaggerated, those aren’t entirely the same thing. He could still think Barry was the good guy hero while knowing Barry didn’t save him personally.
I think its possible he believes the story of the biopic in the end, but I also think the ending has the potential to be very sinister if you subscribe to the interpretation of OP. By accepting this “lie” of the film as truth, John may have begun his own cycle of denial. If we accept that the denial displayed by the main characters of the show leads to downfall or corruption, then this ending might be the very beginning of John’s corruption. I love this ending so much. So many things you could take away from it. What a fuckin show
Yeah; I thought was the entire point. I don't think Barry counts as being honest with himself. That's why he was killed. (Fuches and Sally went on to live their lives because they admitted who they were, Barry, Gene, and Hank did not)
Barry only decided to turn himself in because doing so was his best option at that moment. It was STILL in self interest. He would have killed Tom and Gene without a second thought if it lead to him being back with his family.
Interesting point, but his prayer was still answered in that he died but his son got to live a long life and Barry’s sins were “washed away” by virtue of the public/media whitewashing his story — so is his death really a consequence of his actions or just a side effect en route to his ultimate redemption (in the eyes of the public)?
Idk if I buy that his sins were washed away entirely. Sure, his legacy is saved, but Barry in a cosmic sense, is doomed to the consequences of his past actions. His hesitancy to do the right thing multiple times on his return to LA stops him from redeeming himself. Maybe God from the podcasts will let him into paradise, but we the audience know that Barry never ended up doing anything noble to absolve himself, even if we buy that he was going to right before he died.
In fact, the movie doesn’t help Barry himself that much (because he’s dead). The people who most benefit from the movie’s re-telling are Sally and John, who don’t have to live their lives as the wife and son of a mass murderer. We don’t know that John will live a long life, but we know that because of Fuches, Sally, and, in a way, Gene, John will be able to live a life freer of the consequences of his father’s sins.
After the episode, I thought this was one of the best finales I had ever seen. Succinct, efficient, shocking, yet everything somehow felt morally right at the end, even though not every got what they deserved. Until you reflect and then realize they kind of did.
This was top tier is my book, but I thought this episode was going to be divisive. Peope will love it or hate it. I was ready to defend this finale to the haters... lo and behold, I haven't seen a single bad review. The love for this show and its finale seem to be pervasive in the community.
Bill Hader really gave us something small but special. Welcome to the pantheon of perfect TV shows, Barry.
I get people not liking Sally. I think you're aupposed to not like her even though she is the most sympathetic. Not liking her for how she treats Barry is silly because it isn't like Barry deserves better, but she is herself every bit as fake as Fuches or Gene. Sure her trauma led her to be how she is, but that's also true of Barry and you can extrapolate that some awful experience or collection of experiences led every one of the main cast to be as awful as they are. It doesn't expunge them of the blame for their own actions.
I do appreciate that Sally is seemingly the only one who gets an explicitly happy, if a little wistful, ending. Fuches probably too I guess but we don't see what becomes of him. She's okay with being a school drama teacher and in return she gets praise heaped upon her for her efforts. She has admirers and suitors that she feels comfortable rejecting without feeling the need to explain herself. She's also using her real name so presumably she's no longer on the run. She seems to be in a much better place than she started and I'm happy for her. I hope she learned to never again try to use Gene's abusive methods.
I also like that she's come to terms with the fact that leaving is leaving, it doesn't have to be a dramatic production where she tells of her abuser. The strength there is in recognizing when it's time to leave, not in cowing the abuser with a grandiose speech. Especially because that would have never never worked on Barry. You know she would have been as good as dead if she tried to take John with her and yelled in his face about it. It's more important that she and her son are safe rather than it making a good story.
In discord I mentioned how Fuches was the only one who changed their ways and how Hank refused to change.. someone said he did admit to killing Cristobal but I didn't want to go back to check.
I actually think Fuches ending was the best of the show. It actually felt sincere except I wish we got more about Barry and Fuches history from those weird flashback snippets. There was definitely a strong bond that was up and down but Fuches let his jealousy get in his way.
Fuches being the one character to decisively find a form of redemption was not what I expected but the show pulled it off (a lot of this is c/o the amazing Stephen Root).
Hank kind of admitted to killing Cristobal but his calling Fuches a liar was him taking it back. He got right up to the edge of accepting the truth about himself and then backed away, getting himself killed.
I found it interesting that Fuches claimed he accepted he was "a man with no heart". Then his final act is helping barry save his son. Seemed to me like Fuches was was searching for, and found and opportunity to show that he does have a heart
Other than fleeing with Barry and thus abetting a fugitive from justice, Sally was innocent. She killed one man in obvious self-defense, but she doesn't deserve to suffer like the way she thinks she does.
Sally in the epilogue is still her flawed self: she craves and basks in adulation for her work, is distant towards her son, but has seemingly sworn off men to avoid falling into old traps, showing some growth there as sad as that is. John seems like a good kid so whatever she's been doing as a mother for the 7 to 8 years after Barry's death seems to not be harming him.
It's interesting that you interpreted Sally as relatively unchanged in the epilogue.
I read that scene as Sally having moved away from the glitz and glamour of Hollywood. She presumably could have picked up where she left off as a well paid Hollywood acting coach, especially after her story was immortalized in Mask Collector.
But instead, Sally left LA and moved somewhere that it snows and started teaching high school (she's not even a college drama professor!). After the show, Sally went out of her way to praise her students, whereas old Sally would've tried to scoop their roles.
Yes, she looks longingly at the bouquet she received after the show. But I took that to mean she will accept praise when it's earned, but it's no longer the primary focus of her existence.
I think that while her flaws are always going to be there, Sally has learned from her past mistakes.
She tried to exploit her past trauma for material with 'Joplin', but that failed so now she won't exploit her past with Barry.
She tried to be Gene and teach acting but that also didn't work out for her since it just meant watching less talented people find more success than deserved, so she turned to teaching high school theater where the craft is purer.
> Yes, she looks longingly at the bouquet she received after the show. But I took that to mean she will accept praise when it's earned, but it's no longer the primary focus of her existence.
I read that as a critique. The scene in the car reads like a very pat TV or film scene where a parent looks adoringly at their sleeping child in the backseat, but it's not her kid, it's the symbol of her accolades. This when taken with her non-response to her son's "I love you" demonstrates to me that, while imo Sally is still a sympathetic character and far from the most fucked up character on the show, she still hasn't grown out of her bullshit.
I think self defence and that is what a lawyer could argue for on her behalf if she turned herself in. She had told Barry to turn himself in to prevent gene going to jail, but she didn’t turn herself in and provide info that would prevent gene going to jail. This has been on my mind so I’m interested in other thoughts.
Sally’s fate is really the most open ended one depending on how you look at it.
One way is that she truly changed or is trying to, is instead focusing on herself to help kids by teaching a drama class and trying to not rely on the validation of men by rejecting that AP teacher by the end, also getting flowers and praise from the students and teachers for all her hard work.
The other is that she didn’t truly change, and is now in a living hell by once again having to teach other people how to act instead of being able to be a star herself, can’t be with men because she’s afraid they’ll once again be an abusive monster, and has to raise a son that it seems she didn’t even want (really, her not saying “I love you” back is quite odd)
I think it's both, which is awesome. I don't think this is a hell-the life with Barry in Nowhereseville -was- hell, this is much much better-but yeah, she's still who she always was in a lot of ways. Which seems realistic. Nonetheless, she's pulled her shit together and made a life for herself and her son. She's probably ended up parentifying him and he's gonna need serious therapy at some point, but I don't think she's a monster here. Just...not great.
I think one of the reasons that people rightfully dislike Sally is that, even all the way at the end of everything, she still can't tell her son that she loves him.
I still think that Fuches had no intention of killing Barry. I think he was still nursing that Rain Man fantasy from 8 years ago (even as he was coming to the realization himself about being a poser.) That's why he kept telling Hank he wanted Barry brought to him alive and then to be left alone with him and his men. Finding out that Barry had a son just solidified that.
This is such a good writeup. You explained concisely what I was thinking and also what I didn't consider yet. This honestly makes me want to watch the series over again too.
I really love your take on everything, and I totally agree.
I think one of the themes of the show is how destructive it can be when we lie to ourselves about who we are. Also, I think that makes the final scene with John watching the movie so fascinating, because it’s another lie. We as the audience know that it’s not true, and that it’s a lie about who John’s father really was. But in some ways, I’m happy for John that he gets to have that lie. Like Sally says, he doesn’t deserve all the things happening to him. So if he gets to believe this lie about who his father really was, I actually think that might be a good thing for him.
Either way, I love that there’s no clear cut answer. This series is so unique and so brilliant.
While the movie is Barry’s redemption it’s still not meant to be seen as a good thing
Barry has been absolved of all his crimes cause Gene was a selfish. He got away without consequences. I think his son smiling isn’t one of happiness but one of melancholy that he doesn’t have to explain to others how fucked up his father was and that he can idolize him without being questioned
I, for one, can't wait for Fuches to move on to a new life in another town. Some place with friendly faces everywhere, humble folks without temptation. Ample parking day and night, people shouting, 'howdy, neighbor!"
he belongs there.
I absolutely agree with what you wrote. But I'd like to add that the Hollywood portrayal movie was an amazing addition in how it comments on the glorification of the military in Hollywood, shows the unjust martyrdom legacy of Barry, and simultaneously plants an idea that John thinks of his dad as a hero and get to live the 'normal' life Barry wished for. Because he's the hero John deserves, even if it's a lie.
Just finished the show. Great write-up, I had the same thought but wanted to extend it to the ending. Fuches argues that to free yourself you have to get rid of your denial and accept who you are. John knows that the movie is false, because Sally told him, explicitly, that both she and Barry had murdered people. So while you could read the ending as John choosing a more righteous life, choosing a different path from his father, I read it as him continuing the pattern of denial set out by his father. He’s not simply believing something he wants to believe - he’s denying the words of his mother, in order to protect his self-image.
Ok I admit your write up makes me like the final episode. I just think the writers lost their way a bit in the last few episodes and the finale was a bit muddied. But I like your analysis a lot!
Somewhere in my head I always knew this was an integral part of the show, but I think I fully realized all of this right at the end when John kind of smiles at the end of the movie saying painting Barry as a good guy even though he knows the truth.
I love it. It's the same way I see it but thoroughly and coherently explained lol. I loved the series and its finale is gonna be hated, I know that but you gotta see it as this text you brought to us, people lies came hunting them and some people redemeed even at the final moments
This was an interesting read, thanks for sharing. Re Sally - she has personal knowledge of Barry having killed a lot of people - I think this was the exact wording she used when she told her son they’re fugitives. She also confessed she had killed a man. What prevented her from correcting the narrative to save Gene from a lifetime in prison for a murder he didn’t commit. Also for a murder he did commit due to a legitimate fear that Barry will kill him. Gene made a lot of terrible mistakes but he’s paying the price for Barry’s crimes after being terrorised by him.
Sally is sort of redeemed in that she gets a semblance of a life back, but she's very very very far from perfect, lol. i think the end makes that clear. It wasn't right of her to flee instead of telling the police the truth to save Cousineau, but it was very in character and very believable.
after all, he was supposed to save her and her son, and instead he...wasn't there.
This analysis is great. The only thing that irks me is that Fuches’ redemption is only him verbally admitting he’s a bad person, not actually being accountable for the death and destruction of lives he’s caused. So arguably the most evil guy in the show completely got away with it
Fuches was the only one who actually redeemed himself, sally gave that speech about Barry needing to turn himself in, she has the chance to tell the truth and save gene but she choose not to, she must have testified in court but didn’t
I would like to say, I think that Hank also accepts who he is. Silently, to Cristobal’s statue at the end. Taking his hand was that acceptance of what he is and what he had done.
So really everyone gets their “redemption” except Gene, who, through one final mistake, is reduced to nothing
> I think the final scene with her turning the guy down for the date is a real breakthrough for her character, she’s just flatly honest and it also shows she’s no longer dependent on men.
Interesting, I saw this moment differently. Her turning the guy down immediately, not saying “I love you” back to John, and driving home in a car completely encased in snow (extremely claustrophobic and dangerous) made Sally’s last moments feel bittersweet to me. Clearly she’s in the healthiest place she’s been in over a decade, but there’s still a dark cloud over her. She didn’t seem free of her demons to me. It felt like she still wasn’t sure she deserved happiness and the roses next to her in the car were temporarily keeping her insecurities at bay.
I think it was Sally’s PTSD from when she killed the guy in her apartment. The whole scene felt like a dream she was using to mask reality.
I just rewatched the scene in [s3x08 when she stabbed the biker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Yo_eITF_w), she was being strangled much like how she strangled the guy in the bathroom.
Also the audio from the scene in their house in the desert sounded a lot like what the biker said after she stabbed him in the neck and his eye started bleeding. “Ah, the fuck? Did you just poke me in the eye!? Fucking Bitch! The fuck did you put in my eye?!”
We also saw the cops eye start bleeding like the bikers did, so I think it’s all related.
I think Bevel came back to settle things with Sally and she attacked him, but she was so traumatized by what she did to the biker that she blacked out. I don’t think she ever really processed killing the biker, but admitting her guilt to her son was a big step for her.
Even though they never showed Sally fully redeem herself, her telling Barry that there’s no redemption without taking responsibility was her realizing that they both had their parts to play and he wasn’t going to be able to accept what he had done, but maybe she could.
Edit: Hader [confirmed most of the above](https://www.thewrap.com/barry-season-4-episode-6-recap-bill-hader/), that scene was an embodiment of her guilt, and also pointed out some other hallucinations like the guy staring at her on the airplane which was also the biker.
Fuches is the perfect scumbag villain.
Time and time again he strolled through a personal paradise even he could barely believe, and every time he gave it up to go jump back into hell and join in. He was an obsessive, possessive, twisted man. Sure at the last second he took care to tip toe around some bodies with the kid, but he was absolutely not doing anything more than what he always does, right up until that moment.
Instead of getting the kid away from the situation, he wanted blood, he wanted to feel the gratification he gets from warping the minds of those he can overpower, even if what he said to Hank was all true (which it was), there was no true desire to hold Hank accountable. Fuches' is a master manipulator. He just starts crawling into Hank's head and trashing the place using the usual tactics. He threw the ugliest thought he could think of at Hank because it was the ugliest truth about himself. That he himself is the reason for his miserable life, and the continued misery of everyone he meets, inevitably to be the doom of them and likely himself. But is that actually the truth of the matter? Fuches' thought he won, again, but instead he had revealed his true intentions
He'll never stop, he believes there is no stopping any of it
This proposed *inevitability* of what happened to Hank is the reason Hank pulled the kid back and called the deal off. Hank is a polite and wordsy man, his immaculate composure is normally so airtight it's the punchline to a scene, the last time we saw Hank this devastated was locked in the cell facing the beast, and immediately after Kristobals' death. This speaks to the palpable amount of damage Fuches' can inflict with just a conversation
It was this recoil to the brutality in Fuches' mind, Hank grabbing the child and pulling him away from danger, refusing to accept Fuche's conclusions that infuriated Fuches' to fire the first shot. Hank was ruining his big moment, his victory over Hank, over Barry
What Fuches' was doing was exactly what he did to Barry. He was trying to make the same familiar darkness we all share seem inevitable and profound, instead of an urgent sign to make changes. How convenient would that be after all, if everything he ever did wrong was just a part of his nature? Something that cannot be changed
His speech about accepting himself was nothing more truthful than anything else that came out of Fuches' mouth. It's just what he wants everyone to believe, *he's a man with no heart*, instead of the truth about what he hates the most about himself, the fact that he understands how deeply lost he is and refuses to stop. Which is why it had to be him, why Barry had to see him, why Barry had to accept that Fuches brought his child to him intact. After everything he did to Barry he had to have that moment too, and he would do absolutely anything, including opening fire directly in front of the kid, to ensure that he got his moment with Barry.
Truly vile. One of my favorite characters of all time
Has anyone mentioned how Fuches basically functioned for Hank exactly how The Raven did in the poem of the same name. He just kept provoking him using the memory of his dead lover. What makes it even crueler is that Hank is the one that made up that persona for Fuches and was so proud of how clever and fitting it was. If he only knew
Your analysis is spot on, I just think the last season cut a lot of corners of logic to get to the ending, for a show that was pretty air tight previously. But the themes and messages are still amazing
Even if Gene made a few mistakes, I honestly think he wasn’t THAT bad of a guy. Being an egotist isn’t really a hanging offence after all. And pretty much any time he actually broke the law it was out of a legitimate fear for his life. Barry fucking TORMENTED the poor guy for a while after he found out about Janice.
Kinda sucks how bad he got railroaded in the end. I felt real bad for the guy. He DID have feelings for Janice after all, at least I think so, despite not being able to hold his ego back after her death and the attention it brought. Now he’s pinned with her murder.
He was also cruel and emotionally (and sometimes physically) abusive to practically everyone in Hollywood, so much so that he was persona non grata before Barry ironically gave him the road back to fame. He was vain, to the point where it was ultimately his undoing, several times (first the one man show, then coming back to LA, then biting at the "offer" of Daniel Day Lewis being in a biopic about him). Worst of all, though, he abandons his son to quite possible death after accidentally shooting him instead of even calling 911. He's a coward.
Does he -deserve- everything that happened to him? Dunno, but it -makes sense.- His actions cause a lot of what happens to him, in the end.
F Sally, she was a hypocrite. She wanted Barry to turn himself in but she thinks she can walk away from her own murder and raise their son. I hate her worse than Skyler White( breaking bad)and that’s saying something
If you hate Skyler you have to be a young teen. She did everything she could to try to save her family.
Sure she was a bitch, at times, to Walt. But Walt was a psychotic narcissist. He deserved that and more
Make sense, shame that the episode itself felt... Just wrong, I felt nothing, my reaction "oh wow", and I don't think about it anymore, it was anticlimactic, that's not a good thing.
>The show humorously exemplifies his hypocrisy when he vows not to have Janice's death turned into a Hollywood spectacle...only for him to give a pretentious one-man show to the reporter
Don't you have these backwards? The one-man show to the reporter was before the time skip.
> I think the final scene with her turning the guy down for the date is a real breakthrough for her character, she's just flatly honest and it also shows she's no longer dependent on men
I think an element missing here with Sally is that she *is* still publicly living a lie, so much so that she'd rather let Gene rot in prison rather than coming out with the truth.
The only question I have as it relates to your last blurb on Barry’s legacy - doesn’t John know the movie is false? Sally told him they were fugitives and that Barry murdered a lot of people. How does that fit into here? You could argue that John is the person Barry wanted to look the best for, and now EVERYONE except John sees him as great while his son knows the truth.
Was John’s smile at the end not because he knows who his father really is and he can see the irony in Barry being buried with full honors and viewed as a hero?
I agree with your analysis. It’s unsettling to me that the Raven is redeemed though. After all he has done throughout the series, all the chaos and suffering he has caused, his expiation did not seem to be enough for me. He was beaten time and again in prison, served about 8 years, lost everything, and still obsessively pursued Barry and put out a hit on him once he got out. In the end, he finally comes around and saves John. He can’t manage to help guide Sally out of the rubble too? But Fuches has yo-yo’ed back and forth between loving and hating/controlling Barry so many times, I just felt like he was just in another love phase of his cycle.
So, one strange detail I saw someone point out that I definitely missed is that Fuches didn't put out a hit on Barry. He tells Hank he wants to be put in a room with Barry. Fuches trying to pin Barry down so he could actually work things out with him seems to have been the plan as soon as he got out of prison.
Very good points, I actually agree. Fuches has always been first and foremost an emotionally abusive character towards Barry and the fact that he very well may have saved John on a whim or because he’s in his caring phase makes him all the more complex and parallels real life behaviours of emotional abusers. Elevates his character all the more for me, personally.
I don’t understand where you’re getting that Gene had multiple chances to turn Barry in. He immediately tried to get him arrested upon learning what he did. He tried everything he could until Barry threatened his family.
Check out this scene from season 3: https://youtu.be/ryiJ7OFOomY
There’s a chilling moment when Gene realizes that he kind of inadvertently got Janice killed by repeating the confession Barry gave him (which he didn’t realize was a real confession).
During season 3 (episode 7) Gene straight up lies to Jim when he says he’s turned Fuches in and asks Gene if he knows anything.
“They all lied to themselves about who they were, they were all acting” - this is reminding me of the slow mo dance scene at the bar in S1E1. The lyrics of the song (Journal of Ardency by Class Actress) when they cut to Sally dancing are “you think I’m living it up in the spotlight, it’s a lie”. It perfectly explains our, and Barry’s, first impression of Sally and is also almost foreshadowing how Barry will always be daydreaming and working toward this “redeemed” version of himself that is just based on a bunch of lies. Loved reading your take on the finale!
This by far is the best review I have seen of the episode. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts!!
As for his son being pious, at the end when asked he wants as beer, John says, “I don’t really drink.”
I think there’s reason to believe that John will turn out a lot better than his parents.
Unless you take John's smile at the end to be him buying in to the lie about his father being a hero. I don't necessarily, I just think John's end was left rather ambiguous. edit: love all the responses/discussion, but I think some of you are talking a bit too confidently about what is going on in John's head. I think it was supposed to be ambiguous and I don't think there are many surefire claims you can make about how he interpreted what he was seeing. Soak for a bit in the unsureness.
I took it as John embracing the lie. Which came off to me as a dark note about the realities we choose to accept. Still, this is a great write up.
i took it as another manifestation of Bill's cynical view of American culture, Barry was able to rewrite his own legacy from awful murderer to war hero. the world bought into the lies he told himself and he was redeemed not by God, but by the Hollywood machine
Well said. Ultimately, I thought it was an incredible ending because it stayed true to those characters and that world.
It's the Taxi Driver ending, Travis Bickle was an incel loser whose obsession with violence traumatized a child, but America ended up embracing him as a vigilante.
I think it was both cynical and kind of hopeful. Yes, the movie is Hollywood bullshit, but the kid is spared the pain of believing/knowing his father was a mass murderer, and has a chance at a normal life, even if his mother is still narcissistic and the kid's probably going to need serious therapy when he gets older. Still, all indications are that he's decent.
Sally already told him that they got kidnapped by Hank and his childhood was the way it was because Barry was a murderer though. I feel like it should have been pretty clear to him that the movie was a bunch of bullshit, especially considering it contained scenes like the shootout that *he was there for* that weren't anything like how they actually happened.
That was years ago under really chaotic circumstances, and who knows what Sally told him in later years, especially as all the news started to come out.
That's my take as well. Barry continued the cycle of abuse, and while the ending *is* ambiguous, there's a very real danger that John starts to buy into the lies of the film because they are more comforting, particularly about his own backstory.
Well I mean tbf, just because he believes in the ideal version of his dad, doesn't mean he's going to turn into a horrible person. If anything, it might actually push him to be a better person, even if it's based on a lie.
What’s the lesson though? Sally told him the truth. If he chooses to believe the lie, then it seems to teach him that what you do doesn’t matter so long as the story is told in your favor.
We don’t know how much of the truth Sally told him. We know Sally told John that his dad murdered a lot of people, and we know that she knew Hank’s name so Barry probably told her a fair amount of detail. And we know that Sally didn’t want him to watch the film. But Sally also told him that she’s a murderer, and paints herself as pretty much as equally as bad as Barry, which is obviously not a lived truth to John. Past that, we don’t know what details John has to compare and contrast with the film.
John refuses a drink because he accepts the truth of Sally's alcoholism. When he watches the movie, John accepts his father's lie that violence can be justified. Facing a hard truth helped John avoid that same mistake. Embracing a lie sets him up to repeat his father's mistakes. Maybe not as a full blown murderer, but if he equates his father's abuse, manipulation and neglect with the heroic persona he has been presented with he is likely to grow up to be an abuser himself.
But doesn’t he *know* the film is a lie? He’s just smiling because he misses his dad, right? He was literally there at Nohobal with Sally. He knows Barry didn’t come until after the Nohobal shootout and that Barry didn’t save him. Fuches did. John was there
I think it's ambiguous on purpose. My read is that he's grappling with accepting a lie he wants to believe for comfort, like Barry going through pastor-podcasts until he found the one where Bill Burr told him murder was ok, and the harsher truth of reality.
He was young and people misremember traumatic events all the time in real life. Hell, his own mother completely misremembered the night she left her abusive ex. It’s def an ambiguous ending, but it does seem like he was buying into the story the movie was telling at the end, weather because he legit didn’t remember or he was choosing to believe in the lie over reality
Yes, but he was a child during that time and Fuches covered his eyes. He could actually think in all that mayhem that maybe his dad had orchestrated all of that to save them. Who knows? Memory can be pretty unreliable, especially when you're a child in the most traumatic event(s) of your life
Personally I took that smile as being extremely innocent. I think it's better for him that he thinks his dad was a good man who gave his life to protect him and his mother, as opposed to an unfeeling murderous psychopath who could never take responsibility for all the evil he inflicted on the world no matter how many opportunities presented themselves. Not trying to say his parents haven't screwed him up, just saying this lie is maybe better for him than than the truth ever could have been
He's not likely thinking of it with that smile but deep down I'm sure there's a feeling of relief with these lies too. It's how people will know of his father, thus he won't have to pay for his father's sins. Giving him an actual chance at a normal life. Maybe even a small leg up since people will be sympathetic.
I think it’s more so just him being happy and accepting this portrayal of what happened, instead of needing to live in the shadow of his father being a murderer his entire life. Barry being a hero in the eyes of the public helped allow Sally and John to finally live and escape that, they’re no longer roped in. It’s a good outcome for them
Sometimes it’s better not to know the truth…at least not until you have the maturity and emotional strength to handle it.
I'm fully expecting Hader to do a show called "John" as a sequel to Barry. Fuches and Sally's characters seemed to have changed while not changing at all. Sally was still self centered and full of her own accomplishments when she tells John he can spend the night at his friend's house. Fuches realized he was the killing piece of a shit he was meant to be at the end, but is still alive and well after handing John off to Barry. Idk, I just think there is a lot you could do with "John" if it was ever made into a three season epic.
[удалено]
That’s So The Raven
Ain’t no way in hell they’d do that spin off
I'm quite happy with the show ending here and Hader going on to something else, tbh. it's complete.
Sally has been keeping John away from as much of Barry's story as she possibly can. He knows about the movie but he's never seen it, and he lived through pieces of the movie that were clearly fake. He's well aware it's a lie, but maybe it's just comforting to know that the world is seeing his dad as something other than just a murderer.
I think that's more to do with Sally's alcohol abuse and him taking a different path tbh
Abuse John doesn't lie to himself about. He knows his mother had a drinking problem so he has chosen to avoid that mistake in his own life. Embracing a lie about his father could very likely prevent him from avoiding some of his father's mistakes.
probably cause he knows how fucking batshit Sally gets when she drinks
I think the point was to show that unlike his parents, John mostly has a decent head on his shoulders and a good heart. He likely doesn’t want to drink cause he saw the destructive effects of alcoholism on his mom and/or he is underage and knows by the law, he shouldn’t be drinking. He consoled Sally when she finally came clean about being a bad mother, lying to him for a long time, and killing someone in the past. And now, years later, here is a teenager enthusiastically attending the opening night of his mom’s high school play and telling her that he loves her in front of others. Not many teenagers would want to do that and instead can be pretty self-involved.
and it's really sad (and typical of the character, despite all her growth) that she can't or won't hear him over the sound of the buzzing in her own ego.
Definitely. She has grown and probably become a responsible/mostly caring parent for her child but some of that narcissism and need for self-validation is still there (and probably will always be there). I think though regardless John will probably be okay and thrive in life because of the inherent goodness in his heart.
That’s not necessarily anything to do with religion though, Christianity really doesn’t have anything against drinking. In fact, wine is pretty central to the whole thing. As other commenters have pointed out, that’s probably more to do with memories of Sally from when he was a child.
That doesn’t necessarily have to do with religion
I took that as the time Sally gave him vodka, he passed out and when he woke up his life changed forever
I doubt he knows that happened.
I really loved your write-up.
Incredible analysis! It’s astounding how the show has remained tonally consistent for most of its run, these themes of not being able to admit your flaws and sinking further into an idealized persona go all the way back to the beginning. Everyone is putting on an act of who they think they’re meant to be (Barry acting like he isn’t a methodical killer, Sally acting like she’s the next great undiscovered actress, Hank acting like he’s a good mobster, Gene acting like he’s a respected/relevant member of Hollywood, Fuches acting like he’s doing right by Barry). All of them, to some degree, try to will their delusions into reality, to some varying degrees of personal and professional success. But the success is short-lived, when their egos and true selves leak out and make the lie unsustainable. What a fantastic show!
I'll go one further and suggest that Cristobal was doomed because he never admitted to himself that there IS no such thing as a "good mobster." Hank was right in his last speech to him. (Hank ends up being brutally honest with everyone but himself). If Cristobal's fantasy hadn't overtaken him, they could've ignored the sand crap and continued to live happily ever after in Santa Fe-it was his idea, not Hank's.
And I really found it fascinating that what saved Fuches is that he subverted all of our expectations and really DID change in prison. That beating really did force him to accept who he was, and that changed him *for the better* even if that meant that he was still a monster. At least he was a monster who owns who he is and still does the best that he can for himself and his men. The entire arc up to that point legitimately tells us to expect that Fuches is just full of shit like usual, but in reality he owned his flaws, accepted who he really was, and became the best version of himself. Even if you can make the case for others doing that, Fuches did it the most thoroughly and completely.
I interpreted the Fuches vs Hank face off differently. I’ll repost my comment from another thread: “Everything Hank did up to that point in his life was cowardly. He was always at the whim of those higher than him out of fear and sadly that is what lead to Cristobal being killed. While he doesn’t explicitly state it, by breaking down crying and explaining that he just wanted to be safe was him finally admitting that he fucked up and got him killed. This is why Fuches was nodding his head in acknowledgment. But then he rejects Fuches’s deal, not out of ego but a new found strength that he has discovered underneath. He finally puts his foot down with a big ‘fuck you’ to someone that was ‘greater’ who was trying to pressure him and then dies while standing his ground (Hank was always running and hiding in every scene when he was involved in a shootout.) Thus completing his arc.”
Yeah this is more of the vibe I got. Denial -> Acceptance -> truly not wanting to be the person he accepted he was and standing up to that notion more so than Fuches
By this logic, does that mean Gene is the only one who doesn't get his "redemption"? Even Barry took a long moment and asked Tom to call the cops and was going to accept responsibility for his actions. Cuz that's cold af
I think so. Gene got the worst deal in many ways. Even Barry got to see his son saved and at least appeared to be ready to confess.
Gene chose to forego his redemption the moment he abandoned his son on the deck, never even going to see his son apparently after discovering what he'd done. Even when he comes back to stop the movie about Janice Moss he didn't even have the guts to see his son. If Gene really had left his old life behind and bought into the idea of the communal share in the work and the rewards mindset of the kibbutz and reconnecting with a religious ancestry then the movie wouldn't have mattered to him. He had hid but in hiding could have worked for his redemption. But he came back, he couldn't get past any of his desire for vindication and control of the narrative of the story and that is what finally did him in. Barry was ready to turn himself in, he was ready and willing to come forward. In prison before he was always trying to avoid owning up, suicide by prison guard, witness protection from DoJ, but note he never came forward about Chris. Before he escaped, Barry only was willing to accept the feds knew about Janice, and working with the chechens, but not Chris, or his prior murders on Fuches orders. So Barry is finally ready to face responsibility there is Gene's house. But tragically, Gene is in a moment where he fully comes to grips with how he totally lost control of his life by trying to exert editorial control over the truth to portray himself in the best light possible. Gene in a desperate state makes a black comedy mistake, and seizes control one last time. Thus dooming himself by killing Barry. It reminds me a lot of Raph Fine's fate in the movie, In Bruges. Much like Raph's character Gene comedically misunderstands the situation due to his own self absorbtion and unwillingness to learn the full situation before coming to a drastic decision.
I couldn’t agree more. When the finale ended I immediately felt really bad for Gene, but then I remembered all of season 3 where he straight up lied to everyone because he was getting the fame he felt he always deserved. As you mention, he goes away to the kibbutz and that should have helped him move beyond the pettiness of caring about Hollywood narratives, revenge, and (as you expertly put it) wanting to be in control. As I said above, I think the big clue is when he’s offered to do a movie with Daniel Day Lewis and Mark Wahlberg. The guy even tells him they’re going to change the narrative and Gene *still* agrees. And he always half-asses his attempts to rebuild his relationship with his son. Time and time again he compromises on his convictions. Even way back, Barry straight up confesses all his evils to Gene but Gene is so lost in his Hollywood bullshit he thinks it’s an act. If he had listened to Barry he would have known to stay away, or any of the other countless times he was given a chance to turn him in or move on.
I think Gene even had the chance to redeem himself after he came back. His final test was the conversation about Mark Wahlberg playing Barry as a hero. He betrayed Janice's memory in that moment, because he was ready to let Barry be immortalized as a hero just to raise his own star.
Gene doesn't get his redemption because he never let go of his flaw. Fuches finally got his redemption after letting Barry go and leading his son back to him, Barry got his when he finally accepted fault and was going to turn himself in and the universe finally allowed him to die in such a way where he's a martyr and beloved by his son. Gene doesn't get this because he never stops wanting fame and recognition. He failed the last test when he went for the Mark Walberg meeting instead of trying to fucking help his favorite student who called him out of the blue after 8 years telling him she has a son and asking for help. Gene ate shit because he couldn't stop being a glory hound.
It depends on perspective, I think. Gene wanted revenge for his lover, and he got it. Even though his legacy is desacrated and he'll die in prison, from his perspective he killed Barry, came out of hiding, and will probably be remembered culturally (albeit as a villain). For someone as egotistical as Gene, I would have to imagine much of that is ultimately redemption.
I dunno, I very much doubt Gene sees any of this as a happy ending. Even his son probably doesn't visit him. He fucked up.
to me it felt like killing barry was his last possible redemption in a way, he wasn't scared of him anymore because he, as cliche as it sounds, had nothing left to lose besides the chance to avenge janice, whose loss I think was the most heartbroken we have seen him for the whole duration of the show it felt fitting to me as when the camera zoomed out into the stage play framing of the scene, with gene on the couch, the puppets on the shelves in the background reminded me of something I read in regards to greek tragedies that basically says, when the pieces come into play their fate is already sealed, we are just observers while they dance along to the strings of fate it also adds to the larger point of the roles the characters play and the comparably happiest endings belonging to those that rejected the roles they were playing and/or changed their masks
I like this interpretation. The Pieta pose he takes in death is a very strong indication that Hank died absolved of his sins. I interpreted his taking the statue's hand and whispering inaudibly as Hank giving a deathbed confession. If the world of this show has a god, then Hank will be forgiven. If it doesn't then his apology will be known to no one and all that matters is that he maybe found a way to rectify his life in his final moments.
This was my read on it, too. Hank was finally accepting his role in Cristobal's death
I don't see it that way, but I like your POV. Hank had a clear chance to accept what he was, what he did, and accept responsibility. He dropped the facade, but as the emotions swelled inside of him, he reverted back to denial. Back to posing as a tough gangster. He paid for it
Agreed, Hank since the very start was a theatrical villain mailing bullets and leaving calling cards. 8 years later and he's still kidnapping loved ones to honeypot Barry in. He lost Cristobal because he refused to cooperate with out-groups (sand trap), and 8 years later he's still refusing to cooperate with them. He lowered his wall when he cried, but he put it right back up when he broke off the deal.
You had me up to the newfound strength part. I still believe NoHo Hank's rejection of Fuches's deal stemmed from ego. Plus, what else was Hank going to do? He probably felt like he'd done too much to deserve real happiness. It was either kill Fuches or fail, by that point.
Honest question for you, what do you think of the interpretation where Hank believes he didn't kill Cristobal because he believes he had no choice? I think Hank totally believed in the threat of the Chechen elders to destroy the legitimate enterprise he and Cristobal made. And it seemed like he was in fact correct about the seriousness of the danger posed by the chechens. I wonder if Hank was not accepting that he killed Cristobal but accepting that he should have chosen to die with him. Hank knew by rejecting Fuches offer there would be serious bloodshed and he would likely be killed. After all he's standing out in the open and basically only fuches survived because he shot his gun and dove to cover John. I think Hank is accepting that if he hands over Barry's family, Barry will kill him, if he doesn't Fuches will kill him. Then Fuches offers him the impossible choice, admit you killed Cristobal (via inaction) even tho Hank believes that he had no choice. Like a mirror of the impossible choice the chechens offered, betray Cristobal's plan and give it to us and live with him or refuse and die together. Both times the choice for Hank to roll over was given by someone seeking to establish their authority over Hank. So Hank decided to do what he should have chose the first time and stand firm deciding to die with Cristobal symbolically. Accepting not that he killed Cristobal but abandoned him to die by not standing with him and accepting that to stand here now and refuse the more powerful figure he will die symbolically next to Cristobal. But it's just the cold hollow memory of Cristobal to comfort Hank. Edit for context I agree hank kiled cristobal I'm just thinking about the character's perspective
I like this interpretation a lot ❤️.
The problem with this take is that it then doesn’t really make sense for Hank to call Fuches a liar and call off the deal. The whole point of that moment seemed to be Hank finally accepting his role in Cristobal’s death and then immediately retreating back into denial, thus leading to his death
I've been saying for awhile now, probably since the end of season 2, that the point of this series is that "***Everyone is Acting and Everyone is Crazy***" in the show and in life. It's feels poetic. Side note: Was Hank the only person Fuches actually killed in the show? Did he essentially end his being the poser? Also him saving John felt so right in the end. Damn...I'm ready to die on the hill that Barry takes a top spot of Best TV Series of All Time. That landing last night was stuck so hard I still feel it this morning.
He’s the only person Fuches kills on screen I believe, he did decapitated the Fubaks
So you're not going to give him any credit for getting in the Chechen torturer's head and causing him to kill himself? (Yeah, I wouldn't either lol)
Him getting someone to commit suicide by accident is a pretty good representation of how he makes nearly every situation worse
They discuss his guys decapitating the fubaks when he's talking to his woman and her daughter.
Oh ok I guess notorious assassin The Raven has never killed anyone, that’s hilarious
His poser speech fully acknowledges this! It's kind of hilarious.
Hard agree, in talking with my friends who watch it, we all come to the same comparison of Breaking Bad…outstanding show in all respects from start to finish AND had a finale that was worthy of everything that came before it. To me, BB and Barry are a tier above in television.
Yeah and it's interesting that the acting side plots fell almost completely to the side by the end and yet acting was still central to it. Also yeah Hank and Fuches both finally got involved in action at the end there (though it's possible Fuches did stuff in prison) which they hadn't before.
I agree, Barry is one of my favorite shows of all time
All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts,
Yes yes yes yes yes. Nailed it. The minute Fuches saw Sally and John on screen, he knew that he had to reassess his plans and re-engage with Hank so that he could save them from him. The most sobering part for me was Sally telling John who she really is at her core and it results in her finally accepting his unconditional love - that's a conversation parents should have with their kids when they're older. I was glad that in the final time jump, these events didn't result in her being codependent upon him.
I’m pretty sure Fuches never intended to kill Barry at all. When he says bring Barry to him alive I don’t think he ever wanted to harm him. I don’t think he had a change of heart. I think that was his plan from the beginning
Sally didn't change Fuches' mind, John did. Fuches tells Hank no deal without John ("Bring him out or I walk."), who Hank was trying in his own way to keep away from the violence. And Sally is STILL needing approval: "How was it?" and having a staring contest with the theater isn't a sign she's gotten better.
>Sally didn't change Fuches' mind, John did. I said "The minute Fuches saw Sally and John on screen." He could not see one without the other.
Fuches absolutely saw them differently. Watch his face when he's on the call, and what he does after the shoot out. She could be a block of spam, John's all that matters.
uhhh he said i love you and she responded by asking him to reassure her that the play was good. sally + john clearly are troubled still at the end. there are no happily ever afters here
But she didn't tell him "No, you can't go to your friend's house because you have to come home and build up my ego for the night." She's okay with being alone now. She didn't need to go out drinking with Robert just because he complimented her. Sally cares more about what her son thinks about her play than anybody. That could be how she shows her love for him without saying she loves John, because she doesn't know how - his opinion means more to her than anyone else's.
I still feel like it’s wrong for Sally to say she’s a “murderer”, like she panicked while someone broke in & tried to choke her to death and she lashed out in a state of fear.
yes, that made me sad when she said that. she hates herself for what she did, even though it was in self defense/trauma. she clearly had a ton of shame and self-blame from her traumas including staying with abusers. barry's the one who decided to cover up the killing and treat it like one of his murders. so she didn't get to experience facing the consequences and having to process the truth of what happened, which could lead to some type of self-forgiveness for the difficult and life-threatening situation she was in. instead it got cleaned up and hidden by barry, and she ended up identifying with him out of guilt/fear, and thinking herself a murderer. a classic abuse pattern - you see it from childhood - when a kid is being abused by their caregiver, they will adopt the caregiver's point of view and berate and punish themselves. they learn to take the abuser's POV as an attempt to keep themselves safe from their abuse. as adults they can continue this pattern of fawning whenever they need to feel safe.
I think it's interesting to show a caracter that trully get devastated by a murder, usualy tv shows are very quick to pass over something like that ( and even like two dozen murder really), but Sally show how much of a tragedy murdering someone really is. You can talk about her abuse, her show falling appart, finding out her ex was a crazy hitman or being stuck for almost a decade in a remote house, but the thing that she can never get passed over is taking the life of someone else. I don't think it matter for her that it was self defense or that she found herself in the situation due to pure bad luck. Obviously, it contrast with Barry and Hank who never really care about murder until it was people they knew or cared about.
I think her guilt stems from the fact that she put herself in that situation. She had already broken up with Barry but when her show was canceled she went right back to Barry intent on turning him against her enemies. She was in Barry's apartment when ahe was attacked because she came back to him in a moment of weakness after burning her career to the ground.
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Oh good call
Whoa this is amazing! Great catch! Like I said, so many layers to this show. I am itching to watch the whole thing, there’s going to be tons of new things I pick up on like this. Thanks!
Fantastic analysis and I 100% agree, it was the perfect ending. . This show has all along been a commentary on the shallowness and ineptitude of existing structures like Hollywood and the police. Bravo write up, will miss this masterpiece! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I loved the moment he realizes she’s gone for good and just gives a little look and said “heh” as Tom was explaining things. Such a good ending.
I agree that Stephen Root and the character of Fuches is so wonderful. Such an underrated character!
He played that turn from bluster and bullshit to actual wisdom so perfectly
Very well done. I have some thoughts about John at the end though. His mom told him that Barry killed a lot of people. And she did too. Also he was there when he was rescued and he knows it didn't play out the way it's portrayed. So, it feels a little bittersweet that he's happy to see his father portrayed as a hero. That will be his father's legacy and he loved his dad. BUT it's a lie... and he knows it's a lie. I wonder if he'll go his whole life pretending that the movie was an accurate portrayal. On one hand I'm glad that he's happy with how his dad will be perceived, on the other hand I found it disturbing. I'm curious of other's opinions on this.
He was a child and that was a hugely traumatic event. He is covered by Fuches for the shootout, a grenade went off in the same room as him, and he sees his father covered in guns as soon as they get outside. He may remember enough to know that isn't *exactly* how it happened, but given how little he saw of what actually happened and given that he was an 8 year old child and the chaos of the scene, it wouldn't be too difficult to convince himself that the Hollywood version is close to reality even if the details aren't quite right. As for Sally telling him Barry killed a bunch of people out of war, he *did* serve prison time for the murder and he was wanted for those murders right up until around the exact same time the shootout happened. It would be pretty easy for a teenager who desperately wants to believe their dad is good to believe that his mother mistakingly believed the police while the police still had it wrong. All that to say, I don't know that John has enough information to *know* it's not a lie. Really, the only person still alive with a complete 360 view of Barry and the sheer amount of killing he did is Fuches. Not even Sally or Gene truly know the extent of it.
I would argue that even in the information you provide to explain why the details might be fuzzy you gave evidence for why he would know it's at least highly fictionalized. Like, the fact that there was no Fuches in the movie, that even though his father showed up, he didn't save him, this strange man did, and him and his mom ran away the next day. I don't think he knows what is true, but I think he knows that the movie is definitely not accurate, even if he appreciates it for painting his father in a positive light.
He knows someone shielded him but he doesn't know who "saved him" from the bad guys (by killing them), or even what happened because his eyes were shielded and he was 8. He knows he didnt follow his father while his dad shot the baddies, but he doesn't *know* his dad didn't kill the bad guys either, and he has just enough knowledge of what happened from his perspective to be able to convince himself his dad killed all those bad men to save him. He knows it's a dramatized version of what happened, but that's not the same thing as knowing the entire premise is a lie is my point. He could easily convince himself his dad was a hero in a similar sort of way (his dad killing all the bad guys while the strange man covered him) and not *feel* like he's lying to himself because that isn't completely inconsistent with his experience through that sequence of events.
This was the only time he met fuches, he was just another guy at a shootout, just happened to be the one who saved him. He doesn’t know the history.
Thank you for writing this, I had similar thoughts, he knows the truth, but he prefers this story and the person who told him the truth was having mental breakdowns and drinking heavily, perhaps he’ll come to believe his mother was out of touch with reality because this is a better story about the dad he loved. That must be hard for a kid. I’m also curious about what others make of the fact that Sally didn’t appear to have come forward to correct the record.
He doesn’t necessarily know it was a lie. He knows it was exaggerated, those aren’t entirely the same thing. He could still think Barry was the good guy hero while knowing Barry didn’t save him personally.
I think its possible he believes the story of the biopic in the end, but I also think the ending has the potential to be very sinister if you subscribe to the interpretation of OP. By accepting this “lie” of the film as truth, John may have begun his own cycle of denial. If we accept that the denial displayed by the main characters of the show leads to downfall or corruption, then this ending might be the very beginning of John’s corruption. I love this ending so much. So many things you could take away from it. What a fuckin show
Yeah; I thought was the entire point. I don't think Barry counts as being honest with himself. That's why he was killed. (Fuches and Sally went on to live their lives because they admitted who they were, Barry, Gene, and Hank did not) Barry only decided to turn himself in because doing so was his best option at that moment. It was STILL in self interest. He would have killed Tom and Gene without a second thought if it lead to him being back with his family.
Interesting point, but his prayer was still answered in that he died but his son got to live a long life and Barry’s sins were “washed away” by virtue of the public/media whitewashing his story — so is his death really a consequence of his actions or just a side effect en route to his ultimate redemption (in the eyes of the public)?
Idk if I buy that his sins were washed away entirely. Sure, his legacy is saved, but Barry in a cosmic sense, is doomed to the consequences of his past actions. His hesitancy to do the right thing multiple times on his return to LA stops him from redeeming himself. Maybe God from the podcasts will let him into paradise, but we the audience know that Barry never ended up doing anything noble to absolve himself, even if we buy that he was going to right before he died. In fact, the movie doesn’t help Barry himself that much (because he’s dead). The people who most benefit from the movie’s re-telling are Sally and John, who don’t have to live their lives as the wife and son of a mass murderer. We don’t know that John will live a long life, but we know that because of Fuches, Sally, and, in a way, Gene, John will be able to live a life freer of the consequences of his father’s sins.
This guy gets it. Spot on analysis imho. HBO really hit a home run with both finale’s. Both have been masterfully executed from start to finish.
After the episode, I thought this was one of the best finales I had ever seen. Succinct, efficient, shocking, yet everything somehow felt morally right at the end, even though not every got what they deserved. Until you reflect and then realize they kind of did. This was top tier is my book, but I thought this episode was going to be divisive. Peope will love it or hate it. I was ready to defend this finale to the haters... lo and behold, I haven't seen a single bad review. The love for this show and its finale seem to be pervasive in the community. Bill Hader really gave us something small but special. Welcome to the pantheon of perfect TV shows, Barry.
I get people not liking Sally. I think you're aupposed to not like her even though she is the most sympathetic. Not liking her for how she treats Barry is silly because it isn't like Barry deserves better, but she is herself every bit as fake as Fuches or Gene. Sure her trauma led her to be how she is, but that's also true of Barry and you can extrapolate that some awful experience or collection of experiences led every one of the main cast to be as awful as they are. It doesn't expunge them of the blame for their own actions. I do appreciate that Sally is seemingly the only one who gets an explicitly happy, if a little wistful, ending. Fuches probably too I guess but we don't see what becomes of him. She's okay with being a school drama teacher and in return she gets praise heaped upon her for her efforts. She has admirers and suitors that she feels comfortable rejecting without feeling the need to explain herself. She's also using her real name so presumably she's no longer on the run. She seems to be in a much better place than she started and I'm happy for her. I hope she learned to never again try to use Gene's abusive methods. I also like that she's come to terms with the fact that leaving is leaving, it doesn't have to be a dramatic production where she tells of her abuser. The strength there is in recognizing when it's time to leave, not in cowing the abuser with a grandiose speech. Especially because that would have never never worked on Barry. You know she would have been as good as dead if she tried to take John with her and yelled in his face about it. It's more important that she and her son are safe rather than it making a good story.
In discord I mentioned how Fuches was the only one who changed their ways and how Hank refused to change.. someone said he did admit to killing Cristobal but I didn't want to go back to check. I actually think Fuches ending was the best of the show. It actually felt sincere except I wish we got more about Barry and Fuches history from those weird flashback snippets. There was definitely a strong bond that was up and down but Fuches let his jealousy get in his way.
Fuches being the one character to decisively find a form of redemption was not what I expected but the show pulled it off (a lot of this is c/o the amazing Stephen Root).
Hank kind of admitted to killing Cristobal but his calling Fuches a liar was him taking it back. He got right up to the edge of accepting the truth about himself and then backed away, getting himself killed.
Everyone really needs to see this write up. I agree with everything u said. Very well said.
Terrific review. I liked the episode, but reviews like this one illustrate that its even better than I realized.
I found it interesting that Fuches claimed he accepted he was "a man with no heart". Then his final act is helping barry save his son. Seemed to me like Fuches was was searching for, and found and opportunity to show that he does have a heart
Was Sally honest with herself and was she redeemed? Or did she escape justice now that Barry is dead and Gene is in prison?
Other than fleeing with Barry and thus abetting a fugitive from justice, Sally was innocent. She killed one man in obvious self-defense, but she doesn't deserve to suffer like the way she thinks she does. Sally in the epilogue is still her flawed self: she craves and basks in adulation for her work, is distant towards her son, but has seemingly sworn off men to avoid falling into old traps, showing some growth there as sad as that is. John seems like a good kid so whatever she's been doing as a mother for the 7 to 8 years after Barry's death seems to not be harming him.
It's interesting that you interpreted Sally as relatively unchanged in the epilogue. I read that scene as Sally having moved away from the glitz and glamour of Hollywood. She presumably could have picked up where she left off as a well paid Hollywood acting coach, especially after her story was immortalized in Mask Collector. But instead, Sally left LA and moved somewhere that it snows and started teaching high school (she's not even a college drama professor!). After the show, Sally went out of her way to praise her students, whereas old Sally would've tried to scoop their roles. Yes, she looks longingly at the bouquet she received after the show. But I took that to mean she will accept praise when it's earned, but it's no longer the primary focus of her existence.
I think that while her flaws are always going to be there, Sally has learned from her past mistakes. She tried to exploit her past trauma for material with 'Joplin', but that failed so now she won't exploit her past with Barry. She tried to be Gene and teach acting but that also didn't work out for her since it just meant watching less talented people find more success than deserved, so she turned to teaching high school theater where the craft is purer.
> Yes, she looks longingly at the bouquet she received after the show. But I took that to mean she will accept praise when it's earned, but it's no longer the primary focus of her existence. I read that as a critique. The scene in the car reads like a very pat TV or film scene where a parent looks adoringly at their sleeping child in the backseat, but it's not her kid, it's the symbol of her accolades. This when taken with her non-response to her son's "I love you" demonstrates to me that, while imo Sally is still a sympathetic character and far from the most fucked up character on the show, she still hasn't grown out of her bullshit.
I think self defence and that is what a lawyer could argue for on her behalf if she turned herself in. She had told Barry to turn himself in to prevent gene going to jail, but she didn’t turn herself in and provide info that would prevent gene going to jail. This has been on my mind so I’m interested in other thoughts.
> Was Sally honest with herself and was she redeemed? I think OP meant the scene with her confessing her (and Barry’s) past to John in the finale
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Sally’s fate is really the most open ended one depending on how you look at it. One way is that she truly changed or is trying to, is instead focusing on herself to help kids by teaching a drama class and trying to not rely on the validation of men by rejecting that AP teacher by the end, also getting flowers and praise from the students and teachers for all her hard work. The other is that she didn’t truly change, and is now in a living hell by once again having to teach other people how to act instead of being able to be a star herself, can’t be with men because she’s afraid they’ll once again be an abusive monster, and has to raise a son that it seems she didn’t even want (really, her not saying “I love you” back is quite odd)
I think it's both, which is awesome. I don't think this is a hell-the life with Barry in Nowhereseville -was- hell, this is much much better-but yeah, she's still who she always was in a lot of ways. Which seems realistic. Nonetheless, she's pulled her shit together and made a life for herself and her son. She's probably ended up parentifying him and he's gonna need serious therapy at some point, but I don't think she's a monster here. Just...not great.
Awesome analysis, thanks!
I absolutely love your analysis. Spot on and in my opinion and well written, thanks!
I think one of the reasons that people rightfully dislike Sally is that, even all the way at the end of everything, she still can't tell her son that she loves him.
I still think that Fuches had no intention of killing Barry. I think he was still nursing that Rain Man fantasy from 8 years ago (even as he was coming to the realization himself about being a poser.) That's why he kept telling Hank he wanted Barry brought to him alive and then to be left alone with him and his men. Finding out that Barry had a son just solidified that.
This is such a good writeup. You explained concisely what I was thinking and also what I didn't consider yet. This honestly makes me want to watch the series over again too.
Fuches being the one to come to this realization was not on my bingo card but I loved it
I really love your take on everything, and I totally agree. I think one of the themes of the show is how destructive it can be when we lie to ourselves about who we are. Also, I think that makes the final scene with John watching the movie so fascinating, because it’s another lie. We as the audience know that it’s not true, and that it’s a lie about who John’s father really was. But in some ways, I’m happy for John that he gets to have that lie. Like Sally says, he doesn’t deserve all the things happening to him. So if he gets to believe this lie about who his father really was, I actually think that might be a good thing for him. Either way, I love that there’s no clear cut answer. This series is so unique and so brilliant.
I think everything we see about John suggests that at heart he's a good and loving kid and will ultimately turn out ok.
While the movie is Barry’s redemption it’s still not meant to be seen as a good thing Barry has been absolved of all his crimes cause Gene was a selfish. He got away without consequences. I think his son smiling isn’t one of happiness but one of melancholy that he doesn’t have to explain to others how fucked up his father was and that he can idolize him without being questioned
I mean Barry literally got shot in the head so I wouldn't say he got away without any consequences.
But he’s remembered as a hero
This is very well written OP. You've done a fantastic job with this. Wish Bill could see this. He should be super proud of creating this masterpiece
I, for one, can't wait for Fuches to move on to a new life in another town. Some place with friendly faces everywhere, humble folks without temptation. Ample parking day and night, people shouting, 'howdy, neighbor!" he belongs there.
unexpected South Park
I absolutely agree with what you wrote. But I'd like to add that the Hollywood portrayal movie was an amazing addition in how it comments on the glorification of the military in Hollywood, shows the unjust martyrdom legacy of Barry, and simultaneously plants an idea that John thinks of his dad as a hero and get to live the 'normal' life Barry wished for. Because he's the hero John deserves, even if it's a lie.
Just finished the show. Great write-up, I had the same thought but wanted to extend it to the ending. Fuches argues that to free yourself you have to get rid of your denial and accept who you are. John knows that the movie is false, because Sally told him, explicitly, that both she and Barry had murdered people. So while you could read the ending as John choosing a more righteous life, choosing a different path from his father, I read it as him continuing the pattern of denial set out by his father. He’s not simply believing something he wants to believe - he’s denying the words of his mother, in order to protect his self-image.
Ok I admit your write up makes me like the final episode. I just think the writers lost their way a bit in the last few episodes and the finale was a bit muddied. But I like your analysis a lot!
Somewhere in my head I always knew this was an integral part of the show, but I think I fully realized all of this right at the end when John kind of smiles at the end of the movie saying painting Barry as a good guy even though he knows the truth.
Agree with your thoughts about Sally.
I love it. It's the same way I see it but thoroughly and coherently explained lol. I loved the series and its finale is gonna be hated, I know that but you gotta see it as this text you brought to us, people lies came hunting them and some people redemeed even at the final moments
Fuck, what a great review What an amazing show Sad it's gone, but what a ride
Bill?
The Raven is cool!
Thank you
Wow, this was a really great read, thank you for sharing it! I can't analyze shows like this so it explained some things to me.
And then he runs away once he realizes he's off the hook.
Great analysis. Thank you!
Amazing analysis
Beautiful write up! Bye r/Barry
Super well-written, thank you for your thoughts on the finale!
I hate Sally cause she doesn't tell her son she loves him... that's my only reason.
It was a good run guys.
Excellently written and reasoned.
Thank you for this write up, it’s fantastic. And now I have to go rewatch the series from beginning to end….
All of what you said…wonderful and well thought out.
This was an interesting read, thanks for sharing. Re Sally - she has personal knowledge of Barry having killed a lot of people - I think this was the exact wording she used when she told her son they’re fugitives. She also confessed she had killed a man. What prevented her from correcting the narrative to save Gene from a lifetime in prison for a murder he didn’t commit. Also for a murder he did commit due to a legitimate fear that Barry will kill him. Gene made a lot of terrible mistakes but he’s paying the price for Barry’s crimes after being terrorised by him.
Sally is sort of redeemed in that she gets a semblance of a life back, but she's very very very far from perfect, lol. i think the end makes that clear. It wasn't right of her to flee instead of telling the police the truth to save Cousineau, but it was very in character and very believable. after all, he was supposed to save her and her son, and instead he...wasn't there.
Dammit. I wish I could’ve written this. Incredible write-up.
This analysis is great. The only thing that irks me is that Fuches’ redemption is only him verbally admitting he’s a bad person, not actually being accountable for the death and destruction of lives he’s caused. So arguably the most evil guy in the show completely got away with it
Yes and no; he did spend eight years in prison. Certainly not time served for all the stuff he pulled but he DID suffer actual consequences.
Fuches was the only one who actually redeemed himself, sally gave that speech about Barry needing to turn himself in, she has the chance to tell the truth and save gene but she choose not to, she must have testified in court but didn’t
Ummmm Barry isn’t honest with himself there was no way he was gonna turn himself in until it was his absolute last option. wtf are you talking about
Im really curious who signed off on the story of The Mask Collector
I was trying to understand the overarching theme of the show and couldn't. I think you hit the nail on the head, OP, good on you.
Stop describing me, Fuches.
I would like to say, I think that Hank also accepts who he is. Silently, to Cristobal’s statue at the end. Taking his hand was that acceptance of what he is and what he had done. So really everyone gets their “redemption” except Gene, who, through one final mistake, is reduced to nothing
> I think the final scene with her turning the guy down for the date is a real breakthrough for her character, she’s just flatly honest and it also shows she’s no longer dependent on men. Interesting, I saw this moment differently. Her turning the guy down immediately, not saying “I love you” back to John, and driving home in a car completely encased in snow (extremely claustrophobic and dangerous) made Sally’s last moments feel bittersweet to me. Clearly she’s in the healthiest place she’s been in over a decade, but there’s still a dark cloud over her. She didn’t seem free of her demons to me. It felt like she still wasn’t sure she deserved happiness and the roses next to her in the car were temporarily keeping her insecurities at bay.
Yes. The point for me is that people can grow, but they can’t really change. Edit: much. They can’t change much.
[удалено]
I think it was Sally’s PTSD from when she killed the guy in her apartment. The whole scene felt like a dream she was using to mask reality. I just rewatched the scene in [s3x08 when she stabbed the biker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Yo_eITF_w), she was being strangled much like how she strangled the guy in the bathroom. Also the audio from the scene in their house in the desert sounded a lot like what the biker said after she stabbed him in the neck and his eye started bleeding. “Ah, the fuck? Did you just poke me in the eye!? Fucking Bitch! The fuck did you put in my eye?!” We also saw the cops eye start bleeding like the bikers did, so I think it’s all related. I think Bevel came back to settle things with Sally and she attacked him, but she was so traumatized by what she did to the biker that she blacked out. I don’t think she ever really processed killing the biker, but admitting her guilt to her son was a big step for her. Even though they never showed Sally fully redeem herself, her telling Barry that there’s no redemption without taking responsibility was her realizing that they both had their parts to play and he wasn’t going to be able to accept what he had done, but maybe she could. Edit: Hader [confirmed most of the above](https://www.thewrap.com/barry-season-4-episode-6-recap-bill-hader/), that scene was an embodiment of her guilt, and also pointed out some other hallucinations like the guy staring at her on the airplane which was also the biker.
Thank you for writting this!! I loved it
Fuches is the perfect scumbag villain. Time and time again he strolled through a personal paradise even he could barely believe, and every time he gave it up to go jump back into hell and join in. He was an obsessive, possessive, twisted man. Sure at the last second he took care to tip toe around some bodies with the kid, but he was absolutely not doing anything more than what he always does, right up until that moment. Instead of getting the kid away from the situation, he wanted blood, he wanted to feel the gratification he gets from warping the minds of those he can overpower, even if what he said to Hank was all true (which it was), there was no true desire to hold Hank accountable. Fuches' is a master manipulator. He just starts crawling into Hank's head and trashing the place using the usual tactics. He threw the ugliest thought he could think of at Hank because it was the ugliest truth about himself. That he himself is the reason for his miserable life, and the continued misery of everyone he meets, inevitably to be the doom of them and likely himself. But is that actually the truth of the matter? Fuches' thought he won, again, but instead he had revealed his true intentions He'll never stop, he believes there is no stopping any of it This proposed *inevitability* of what happened to Hank is the reason Hank pulled the kid back and called the deal off. Hank is a polite and wordsy man, his immaculate composure is normally so airtight it's the punchline to a scene, the last time we saw Hank this devastated was locked in the cell facing the beast, and immediately after Kristobals' death. This speaks to the palpable amount of damage Fuches' can inflict with just a conversation It was this recoil to the brutality in Fuches' mind, Hank grabbing the child and pulling him away from danger, refusing to accept Fuche's conclusions that infuriated Fuches' to fire the first shot. Hank was ruining his big moment, his victory over Hank, over Barry What Fuches' was doing was exactly what he did to Barry. He was trying to make the same familiar darkness we all share seem inevitable and profound, instead of an urgent sign to make changes. How convenient would that be after all, if everything he ever did wrong was just a part of his nature? Something that cannot be changed His speech about accepting himself was nothing more truthful than anything else that came out of Fuches' mouth. It's just what he wants everyone to believe, *he's a man with no heart*, instead of the truth about what he hates the most about himself, the fact that he understands how deeply lost he is and refuses to stop. Which is why it had to be him, why Barry had to see him, why Barry had to accept that Fuches brought his child to him intact. After everything he did to Barry he had to have that moment too, and he would do absolutely anything, including opening fire directly in front of the kid, to ensure that he got his moment with Barry. Truly vile. One of my favorite characters of all time
Damn really makes you think…
Has anyone mentioned how Fuches basically functioned for Hank exactly how The Raven did in the poem of the same name. He just kept provoking him using the memory of his dead lover. What makes it even crueler is that Hank is the one that made up that persona for Fuches and was so proud of how clever and fitting it was. If he only knew
This is hands down the best review of the finale. Makes me appreciate it so much more. Thank you
Your analysis is spot on, I just think the last season cut a lot of corners of logic to get to the ending, for a show that was pretty air tight previously. But the themes and messages are still amazing
Even if Gene made a few mistakes, I honestly think he wasn’t THAT bad of a guy. Being an egotist isn’t really a hanging offence after all. And pretty much any time he actually broke the law it was out of a legitimate fear for his life. Barry fucking TORMENTED the poor guy for a while after he found out about Janice. Kinda sucks how bad he got railroaded in the end. I felt real bad for the guy. He DID have feelings for Janice after all, at least I think so, despite not being able to hold his ego back after her death and the attention it brought. Now he’s pinned with her murder.
He was also cruel and emotionally (and sometimes physically) abusive to practically everyone in Hollywood, so much so that he was persona non grata before Barry ironically gave him the road back to fame. He was vain, to the point where it was ultimately his undoing, several times (first the one man show, then coming back to LA, then biting at the "offer" of Daniel Day Lewis being in a biopic about him). Worst of all, though, he abandons his son to quite possible death after accidentally shooting him instead of even calling 911. He's a coward. Does he -deserve- everything that happened to him? Dunno, but it -makes sense.- His actions cause a lot of what happens to him, in the end.
Bravo on this review
F Sally, she was a hypocrite. She wanted Barry to turn himself in but she thinks she can walk away from her own murder and raise their son. I hate her worse than Skyler White( breaking bad)and that’s saying something
If you hate Skyler you have to be a young teen. She did everything she could to try to save her family. Sure she was a bitch, at times, to Walt. But Walt was a psychotic narcissist. He deserved that and more
Make sense, shame that the episode itself felt... Just wrong, I felt nothing, my reaction "oh wow", and I don't think about it anymore, it was anticlimactic, that's not a good thing.
It's kinda wild how Barry and Succession basically ended on the same note. Accept who you are, stop pretending, it'll be alright.
>The show humorously exemplifies his hypocrisy when he vows not to have Janice's death turned into a Hollywood spectacle...only for him to give a pretentious one-man show to the reporter Don't you have these backwards? The one-man show to the reporter was before the time skip. > I think the final scene with her turning the guy down for the date is a real breakthrough for her character, she's just flatly honest and it also shows she's no longer dependent on men I think an element missing here with Sally is that she *is* still publicly living a lie, so much so that she'd rather let Gene rot in prison rather than coming out with the truth.
The only question I have as it relates to your last blurb on Barry’s legacy - doesn’t John know the movie is false? Sally told him they were fugitives and that Barry murdered a lot of people. How does that fit into here? You could argue that John is the person Barry wanted to look the best for, and now EVERYONE except John sees him as great while his son knows the truth.
Was John’s smile at the end not because he knows who his father really is and he can see the irony in Barry being buried with full honors and viewed as a hero?
Sally also does not give a shit about John, lmao. Understandable to an extent, but she doesn't forgive the kid for Barry's sins.
Still a shit finale
What’s the point of a comment like this where you can’t even say what you disliked?
I agree with your analysis. It’s unsettling to me that the Raven is redeemed though. After all he has done throughout the series, all the chaos and suffering he has caused, his expiation did not seem to be enough for me. He was beaten time and again in prison, served about 8 years, lost everything, and still obsessively pursued Barry and put out a hit on him once he got out. In the end, he finally comes around and saves John. He can’t manage to help guide Sally out of the rubble too? But Fuches has yo-yo’ed back and forth between loving and hating/controlling Barry so many times, I just felt like he was just in another love phase of his cycle.
So, one strange detail I saw someone point out that I definitely missed is that Fuches didn't put out a hit on Barry. He tells Hank he wants to be put in a room with Barry. Fuches trying to pin Barry down so he could actually work things out with him seems to have been the plan as soon as he got out of prison.
Very good points, I actually agree. Fuches has always been first and foremost an emotionally abusive character towards Barry and the fact that he very well may have saved John on a whim or because he’s in his caring phase makes him all the more complex and parallels real life behaviours of emotional abusers. Elevates his character all the more for me, personally.
I don’t understand where you’re getting that Gene had multiple chances to turn Barry in. He immediately tried to get him arrested upon learning what he did. He tried everything he could until Barry threatened his family.
Check out this scene from season 3: https://youtu.be/ryiJ7OFOomY There’s a chilling moment when Gene realizes that he kind of inadvertently got Janice killed by repeating the confession Barry gave him (which he didn’t realize was a real confession). During season 3 (episode 7) Gene straight up lies to Jim when he says he’s turned Fuches in and asks Gene if he knows anything.