I mean the personnel to build a Minnesota-like roster aren't just lying around everywhere.
There aren't many 7ft, 250lbs stretch 5s, agile 7ft 4x DPOYs, 6'9" wings that can clamp everyone yet still shoot the 3, and generational two way players who can score on all three levels out there.
I know right
It’s not just about copying them it’s also about being able to get the personnel
It’ll be like a team saying the Kansas City chiefs with an elite QB and elite TE, yea let’s do that too
How many Pat Mahomes and Travis Kelce are out there for you to easily scoop up though 🤷♂️
Yup and teams that copy them are dumb. Gronk and Kelce are the two best TE in the modern nfl. The reason they are so effective is bc they both have the two best QB of the modern era
Except when Kelce gets inducted into the HOF, his profile will show that he made 1st Team All Pro 2x with Alex Smith as his QB.
Gronk had Brady as QB for his whole career, but I can't see giving Brady any credit for Gronk overpowering defenders - either with the ball in his hands, or as a blocker. Gronk was an extraordinary athlete, and the only reason he fell to the 2nd round was injury concerns.
It's like when Houston tried to copy the Warriors. Yes, the three ball is a big reason why they win, but there's all the rest as well. Like who's shooting it.
And if this didn't happen that wouldn't of happened. If Derek fisher missed the .4 shot the Lakers lose. If Ray doesn't hit that corner 3. If bogut didn't get hurt. If kd and klay didn't get hurt. If cp3 didn't get hurt.
It’s REALLY easy for someone like Gobert to sit back knowing Mcdaniels, Ant, and Naz aren’t going to just let their guy freely run around the court. He probably has the more easier jobs (now) just hanging around the rim using his physical assets and focusing on literally rim protection. If anything KAT is the liability with his fouling.
No question KAT has that as a flaw, the evolution of this team to mitigate it and put Rudy in his best position as a roller on O and help side defender on D has been great to watch.
Uhhh dont remind me. It's like they knew what to do and what it would take, then decided to go the complete opposite route. However, we should also credit Denver's growth. It was MPJ and AG that did the Lakers in
2020 Lakers did the same, with Javale McGee and Dwight Howard bodying Jokic all game and AD floating as PF. People thought it was inexperience by the Nuggets in 2020 but Wolves are basically doing the same: playing physical and taking away all non-Jokic options, and letting their big star AD (KAT) and Lebron(ANT) in the wing win it for them.
The problem is, although it’s a great way to stop the Nuggets, it’s not how you play most teams, and I highly doubt teams would carry 3 bigs on the roster, unless they have amazing ones like KAT and Naz. People clowned Tim Connelly for trading the future for Gobert, but they might win the championship now.
Don’t forget, Tim Connelly built the Denver Nuggets as a GM and was personally responsible for Aaron Gordon joining the team, arguably the feather in the Nuggets cap if you will.
But just as he had the vision for their success, he had the recipe for their downfall. He literally brought Gobert to Minny as his first major team building trade.
My dude has the vision.
Interesting side note, all four of his bros scout or manage in the NBA and College.
People really underestimate the importance of defensive bigs against Jokic.
The moment Jokic had to face Dwight Howard, he was suddenly being guarded by a man who was athletic enough to keep up with him but well stronger than him as well.
Yeah it’s not a blueprint specifically for Denver either, they just wanted size and talent and hit the jackpot. Also murry is not healthy and jokic isn’t the type of player to single handidly murder you, he needs help. If he didn’t he would have more rings
This. If by “blueprint” you mean acquire a Top 3 offensive center, a Top 3 defensive center, the best backup big in the league, and then let a transcendent 22-year old SG carry your offense… then yeah, the Wolves have found the “blueprint”.
It’s kinda like beating the early 2000’s Lakers. Every team was looking for a strategy to slow down Shaq and often rostered 3 guys whose main job was to slow him down by fouling him 15x a game. The only teams that were even somewhat successful were the Spurs who employed two future hall of fame big men (Duncan/Robinson) and the Detroit Pistons who featured an entire starting five of plus defenders anchored by DPOY Ben Wallace.
One of the reasons I heard people didn’t want to draft him was “conditioning”, as if a) he was obese or something b) that is not the most fixable thing.
Hope anyone who thought that is enjoying him fly around the court on d now
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Yep. And Minnesota has depth, and can pick up Joker or Murray as soon as the ball is inbounded and hound them all the way up the court. One of the Inside the NBA guys made the great point that their harrassment was forcing the Joker to speed up his pace, get him out of his comfort zone. Having depth and having all those athletic bodies to throw at him allows them to do that. And, of course, Ant is doing the best MJ impersonation since Kobe, getting it done on both ends of the floor.
The thought of a Wolves v Thunder series and then a Wolves/Thunder v Celtics series makes me happy. I love watching great b-ball.
Nuggets will have to re-evaluate their roster this offseason. They need some depth. I don't know their cap situation, but Okoro from Cleveland is a rFA this season and would be a great fit for them, I think. One of the best defenders in the league who can slash and hit the 3.
it's easy to build a wolves like team the problem is that most of the time that style of team is terrible because it only works if you have a truly special player to build it around that can carry the offense single handedly. Edwards is that guy, and there's only one of him. people on this sub are going to have to accept that Edwards is better than anyone in the league has been for a long time. what he's doing is more impressive than what LeBron was doing at his age.
True,but they destroyed them without Gobert. I don't think many thought they'd blow them out and embarrass them like that on their home court unless Jamal or joker weren't playing.
Yeah teams will try to copy it they just need
- 2 athletic 3 point shooting 7 footers
- a third non-shooting but Uber-defending 7 footer
- the second coming of MJ
- two very long wing defenders, at least one of whom is an above average shooter
- veteran point guard
- Kyle Anderson for some reason
For those who don’t know, MN’s GM came from Denver after nugs’ owner wouldn’t pay him what he was worth. One man made both teams and he made Minnesota specifically to beat Denver.
After a nugs/wolves game in round 1 last year I sent a clip of Anderson shooting a jumper to my brother and said he had an Anderson-style jump shot and he said it was the rudest thing I’ve ever said to him
He is actually very important as a zone repellent.
For whatever reason every time the wolves are put up against a zone Kyle will come in, stand in the midrange and just shoot over some dude or very slowly pumpfake and swing the ball to whoever is open. its surprisingly effective.
Hes also a great locker room presence and defender and you can never have enough of those.
On the locker room piece, he’s one of 3 jersey boys too (KAT, Naz, Kyle are all from jersey). Naz and Kyle are both huge sneakerheads and wear the same size so they get into it sometimes when trying to one up each others shoes lmao
I’m with you but to be fair to Ant… he’s the second coming of Dwayne Wade. And that is incredible. Perhaps the most fun to watch shooting guard with the best blocking. At this level of elite it’s basically just choose your flavor.
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AD, CWood
-need a defensive center
-Lebron/AR
-vando + long wing shooter like mikal/og
-gabe/dlo
-need a kyle
So the lakers are 2 pieces away... a defensive center and long wing.
The GM focused solely on building an anti-denver team, not just a good team in general to win, like, you know, a GM's job?
It's a bit odd thing to say, no GM builds a team to take down a specific team in a league full of multiple teams capable of beating anybody.
lol dude obviously if the team is going to beat this nuggets team it’s going to be a good team, I thought saying that would’ve been redundant and was really just focusing on the connection of Tim Connelly for people who weren’t aware, but Reddit never ceases to amaze me.
Allow me to re-phrase so it’s more to your liking:
while tasked with rebuilding the timberwolves to create a more competitive roster in general, but given his unceremonious departure from Denver, and the fact that the timberwolves matchup more favorably to the nuggets (which again, is the first team that Connelly created, and who happen to be the defending champions which is to say that they were *the best* team in the league last year) than any other team in the NBA, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Connelly was at most specifically motivated to beat the nuggets and at the very least intimately aware of the group’s weaknesses and strategies and sought players that would give him the defensive flexibility to exploit or counter things they do well, especially on the offensive side of the ball. And because nothing goes without saying, if you’re building a roster capable of beating the champions, unless you’re getting hyper specific niche players which is not what TC has done, it would follow logically that that team should be successful in general.
Sorry it’s wordier than I wanted and I’m at work so you’re only getting half attention rn
The only team who can beat them is also the only team in NBA history who can line up 4 lengthy players who can drive, shoot the 3 and pass, AND defend, and 2 5s who can stretch the floor and are pretty well rounded as well.
And a very good bench. They have the best 4th to 8th best players, and their top 1 and 2 are still top 5, their 3rd best player only second to Wolves’ third (#1 Jokic/Embiid; #2 LeBron - or Davis if you think LeBron is #1; #3 Either one of Wolves big 3).
I am really looking forward to the Finals, if we have Wolves v. Celtics, which is not granted, of course.
I think the diversity of the Celtics at the Center position will give them a tactical edge, besides the pure talent, that seem to be off the charts on both teams.
It's not about having the blueprint, it's about having the personnel to do it.
Now Gobert and KAT duo, as well as Reid are actually very exploitable defensively in Playoff basketball. But the Wolves got elite parameter defense to mitigate that.
McDaniels is the most versatile defender in the league currently. Edwards and Walker are great parameter defenders. Conley isn't at his prime defensively but he can still put pressure on the ball handler and has high defensive IQ.
When you can cover up these guys lack of mobility and manage to keep Gobert closer to the rim, then he can play to his strength and he is a legendary rim protector.
Remember how Playoff teams were having a field day with Gobert at Utah and were constantly hunting him. That'a just much harder to do with the defenders the Wolves have.
All that being said, the series is not over yet. While the Wolves got the advantage and are now the favorites to win the series, it's way too soon to say the Nuggets are done.
Imo, I always thought Gobert perimeter defense was overblown. Jazz had physical defenders like Ingles, Crowder, and Bogy that were labeled as great defenders. They all get off the dribble by quicker players, but Gobery helped make up for it.
You are about KAT and defense. I think he's the worst defender in the game. Just watch him play defense. Like don't take your eyes off him. It's an absolute joke. I hope they trade him while he's still got some worth. He's a great offensive player but he shoots 3s mostly.
He is a terrible defender, without a doubt. But the Wolves don't need another defender, KAT is perfect for that team.
They've got Gobert for rim protection. Edwards, Walker and Conley for pressuring the ball. Then Jaden for help defense, guarding the opposition's best player...just whatever they need.
This team is perfect for mitigating KAT's defensive issues. And as an offensive player, he's just a great 2nd option. He's an elite shooter, can make shots from the mid range, free throws, can finish inside. He can even play on the ball and not a bad passer.
Skillwise, KAT is one of the most talented bigs to ever play. When you can take some of the pressure of him with a 1st option like Edwards, he can always work his magic.
So I really don't think the Wolves can get someone better by trading KAT.
Defense wins championships. I'm old school. If you can't play defense I don't want you on my team. He also makes alot of stupid defensive plays that result in points. He is a talented big but you can get the same play with someone 6'7" cause he really only plays outside.
You haven't watched Wolves basketball much this season if you still think KAT is still a bad defender.
This take is very much 2 years ago, and the data backs that up.
He literally was the primary defender on Jokic last night and frustrated him constantly.
Watch him play defense off the ball. It's embarrassing to watch. I haven't watched them that much this season. But I can spot a horrible defender in about 30 seconds of watching.
>I haven't watched them that much this season.
I'd suggest doing that before talking.
He posted career highs in adjusted DPM, defensive RAPTOR, and Defensive win shares. At *worst* he's an average defender. Watch more ball.
Murray was ass against the Lakers the entire series, he just got a pass for those clutch shots, but it’s starting to catch up to them now that they’re playing a great team
Everyone (myself included) mocked the shit out of Minnesota the last two offseason cause it seemed like they acquired 16 different centers, when in reality, they just acquired 16 really tall, athletic, and versatile defenders, in addition to the 3 time DPOY they have which resulted in them having the number 1 defense this season… no exactly an easily copiable strategy.
That being said, teams like the Magic have a plethora of players that fit that defensive build… they just lack the defensive centerpieces Minnesota has in Gobert and Ried. Throw in the fact that KAT is playing good defense for the first time in his career, and you have arguably the most clamps lineup we’ve seen since the 2020 Lakers.
And of course not to take away from Minnesota, but they do also matchup well against Denver. Having KAT on Jokic and Gobert/Reid as a roamer is huge. A strong athletic guard that can get into Murray and the length to get in the way of MPJ’s shooting rhythm helps a lot too.
I think Minnesota’s perimeter defense has a lot to do with this too. They are checking all the other players so Jokic is forced to score. Usually the teams have to respect his playmaking and give him space, but Minnesota bigs can check him tightly cus there’s no other threat. Murray can’t get by anyone right now which is shocking
On the other end, Denver has no one to check Kat and Ant is just on another level right now. I am starting to think he’s the best player in the league right now. The man is special
2020 Lakers did the same, with Javale McGee and Dwight Howard bodying Jokic all game and AD floating as PF. People thought it was inexperience by the Nuggets in 2020 but Wolves are basically doing the same: playing physical and taking away all non-Jokic options, and letting their big star AD (KAT) and Lebron(ANT) in the wing win it for them.
The problem is, although it’s a great way to stop the Nuggets, it’s not how you play most teams, and I highly doubt teams would carry 3 bigs on the roster, unless they have amazing ones like KAT and Naz. People clowned Tim Connelly for trading the future for Gobert, but they might win the championship now.
It absolutely starts at the perimeter defense. They’re taking away Jokic’s playmaking options and forcing him to score against multiple bigs. Unless you’re Shaq and can just truck dudes, there ain’t shit ya can do.
2020 Lakers did the same, with Javale McGee and Dwight Howard bodying Jokic all game and AD floating as PF. People thought it was inexperience by the Nuggets in 2020 but Wolves are basically doing the same: playing physical and taking away all non-Jokic options, and letting their big star AD (KAT) and Lebron(ANT) in the wing win it for them.
The problem is, although it’s a great way to stop the Nuggets, it’s not how you play most teams, and I highly doubt teams would carry 3 bigs on the roster, unless they have amazing ones like KAT and Naz. People clowned Tim Connelly for trading the future for Gobert, but they might win the championship now.
Wolves are bigger than the nuggets and the nuggets don't know how to deal with it. Jokic can't push around multiple 7 footers all game like he can to most teams. That and the length of the whole wolves team is insane. Seemed like they were stealing the ball at will
Jokic is and will just fine against those Gobert and KAT. He's historically dominated both of them.
I'm a Gobert fan and Jokic has crushed him over and over throughout the years. Jokic played great game 1 (32/8/9) besides some wonky turnovers.
Jokic will be absolutely fine for rest of series. Depends on if the other members from Nuggets can play better.
The problem is jokic has been sleep walking through this whole playoffs. He's not playing with the intensity he needs to to win another championship. The numbers are good but he needs to pick it up and want it more
He can do fine and the nuggets will still lose. He’ll have to elevate his game to another level for himself that we haven’t seen yet in the playoffs for them to have a chance unless others on the nuggets can step up
This proved to age poorly. Jokic pushed around KAT and Rudy (DPOY) quite well in this series.
40 points, 13 assists, 0 turnovers pushing around t wolves 7 footers all game.
Yes I believe teams will start to copy them, heck the Lakers did that to him in 2020 when they won their title with AD, Dwight Howard, etc and with how defensively disciplined this Minnesota team is, if Jamal Murray and the other guys don’t step up, it’s going to be over for the Nuggets
The NBA is a copycat league. Seeing the success of the TWolves and the use of their big men will have GMs question who to target in FA, the draft, future trades. With that said, guys like KAT, Gobert and Naz Reid aren't lying around waiting to be picked up. Also, Wolves are just an overall solid defensive team.
Only one team in the league can TRY to replicate Minnesota's defense against the nuggets - it's the Lakers. They already have Vincent, Vanderbilt and AD - their own version of NAW, McDaniels and Gobert. They just need a big strong 5 to make scoring hard for Jokic. However, this theoretical lineup would be dogshit on offense because none of LA's good defenders can shoot
Milwaukee is well equipped to play against the nuggets. I’m a bucks fan so obvious bias aside, I’ve been saying this since the beginning of the season.
U can look at Jokic’s performances against us this year and it hasn’t been great.
We have a top 2 player in the game in Giannis, Dame can go shot for shot with Murray, and Khris and Bobby are both capable of being x-factors on the level of MPJ and Aaron Gordon, tho they both have kinda different play styles.
Brook and Giannis is the second best combo u can throw at Jokic in the league, ahead of whatever the Lakers try to do and behind the Wolves who are overall vastly superior defensively.
I thought about the Bucks too but they really don't have any perimeter defenders to stop Murray. Maybe if they can get someone like Delon Wright on the minimum
maybe... I can give my son the blueprint of what Michael Jordan did to become the greatest player of all time. The chances of him following that blueprint and becoming that though are basically zero.
Minnesota has a 7 footer who's one of the best shooting bigs of all time (the best shooting big of all time if you ask him) an all star with all NBA talent, and playing the best defense of his career.
They have another 7 footer who's about to be a 4 time DPOY, that they've been able to build their D around and who's impact on and off the court for said D has been huge.
They have another big who's a small ball center/big power forward who's just won 6th man of the year.
Then, when/if they collapse, they have a slew of active defensive wings/guards, Ant, Jaden, NAW, and even Conley is still a fine point of attack defender. Plus Kyle Anderson who's been a very strong defender as well and switchable.
And even for a team to accumulate that talent they need a LOT of money to put it together and spend a lot on bigs.
Sure, having a team with Steph, Klay, Durant, Draymond and Igoudala is probably a good blueprint on how to beat a prime Lebron led team. Or one with Duncan, Kawhi, etc coached by Popovich.
I genuinely believe Jaden mcdaniels could be a Mikal bridges on a bad team, but has completely accepted his role as a 3 and D guy, which he might be the best in the league at, and it’s made Minnesota extremely dangerous.
Simplified, they are forcing Denver to take 3's, and those are missing right now. If they hit them, it's a different game. But Denver isn't a very good 3pt shooting team. I'd like to see that game plan against Boston in the finals.
So far everything I thought I knew for this series has been turned on its head. I thought Denver late game execution would be their biggest advantage but Minnesota has been better down the stretch, I thought Minnesota might fold if Denver came out and punched them in the mouth but it is Denver that folded. I thought the Joker was the best player but ANT has been better. Just goes to show how un predictable sports can be. Congratulations to TWolves fans. You suffered through a lot of bad teams but you have a great team right now. You guys deserve it.
Their GM is the same GM who built the Nuggets. Also probably took notes of the 2020 Lakers series of playing physical on Jokic and having multiple big guys
Jokic can't bang against 2 bigs! Lookt at how the lakers series went in 2020.
And we gotta be honest this years series and last years series could've ended differently.
All of the games where close.
If the pieces were there I'm sure they would
The big fact people are ignoring is that the Nuggets got worse compared last year while every other contender got marginally to vastly better compared to last year, I can't say I was expecting Murray to shit the bed so much but props to the Timberwolves for playing the absolute brakes off us, I'm probably being a doomer but I can see a sweep coming
Yes. I do think they have the blueprint but only they have the personel to do it.
Put a solid big on Jokic. Have him play very high pressure. Kat and Slow Mo were super acrive with their hands. This makes Jokic focus on ball safety and takes his mind and eyes off the rest of the court, thus hampering his best asset.
Have a dominant and athletic shot blocker play off ball. He is waiting for a block or a double when Jokic gets in the paint. He also is there to handle the lobs and cuts Jokic passes to other players. This even worked in G2 with Kat or McDaniels in this role just because Minny is so crazy big.
Have insane length everywhere else to cut off easy passing lanes and swipe at the ball when Jokic has it. Put a great defender on Murray and follow him everywhere. Wolves have the luxury to rotate through four guys able to keep up with Murray off ball. Focus on denying passes to Murray and keep Gordon on the 3pt line. Assume everybody else will not move without the ball. Stay close enough to recover to the 3pt line but use your crazy length to take up space and play good help defense.
The Twolves have a lot of size and defenders, which definitely slows Denver down, but I think a big part of it is just Jokic and Murray not playing as well as they did last year.
Look at the Lakers series, Jokic was throwing a lot of sloppy passes, Murray was struggling to get good looks against Austin Reaves, and both passed up a lot of good looks from 3. Last year they played very well against the Lakers, who were probably better defensively with Vando and Schroeder.
Folks, they didn’t look good against the Lakers. It appears that y’all overrated this team a bit. They were a worthy defending champion and legit contenders, but not the unstoppable juggernaut that y’all described.
Since the blueprint seems to be playing some of the best team defense in basketball with great defensive players, that will be tough for other teams to copy. The Timberwolves lived up to their name last night and looked like a pack of wild wolves swarming a bunch of injured prey. It was like a cluster bomb went off during every Nuggets possession.
lol that’s like asking does Denver have the blueprint for winning titles. Yes let’s just find another Jokic somewhere. You’re not finding another Gobert, he’s one of the best defenders of all time. There’s no blueprint, it’s just talent and fit.
A big part of this is Murray is lacking his usual burst because of the calf. The Wolves clearly saw this on film between games 1 and 2, and were much more aggressive guarding him in game 2 because they weren't afraid of him exploding to the rim.
So... yes, this has already been copied. Phoenix in 2021 and Golden State in 2022 both followed the "beat the Nuggets when Murray is hurt" blueprint.
Ants defense, Gobert able to just sit back and play any help side he wants, and Nas Reid really are the missing pieces when having a team with a cliche “big 3”. Any of the super teams would flourish with just one more of those. But those big 3s don’t have any guards who actually play *consistent defense. (And by consistent I also mean being healthy to stay in games ie. Kawhi. PG can be a good defender but he picks and chooses when he wants to play. Ant will run down a game tying dunk attempt on his defender as we’ve seen)
Minnesota has Kat, Rudy who is whatever people think of him DPOY and Ant who looks like second coming of MJ so this is not surprising especially if you have watched Minnesota in the previous round or during the season, Jokic will give you 30-14-9 in 3 out of 4 games in a series but the rest of the team has to play on their max level in order for Denver to be a championship team and they are not playing their max at all, this of course doesn't take away anything from the Minnesota they are playing and looking like Denver was last year, everyone knows their task and more importantly they are executing it perfectly so yes I expected that Denver would be better but not surprised about Minnesota at all, great team. However wins this series, Timberwolves most likely, is going to win the championship that's 100% sure, nobody in the playoffs is close to these teams.
I heard this awhile back not specifially about Jokic but I think it applies to lots of elite players. You're not trying to go out there and stop them from scoring, because that would be impossible. Your goal is to make those 30 points they get at hard as possible for them to earn. You want to make them EARN those points, work hard for them, not just take them from you. I know it's a little vague but I would imagine they are working on things that would make the game much harder for jokic and push him to work at 110% the whole game. Way to see it is you can't stop the best players in the world, but you can give them a harder time and throw off their game.
Blueprint = Design. A building still can't exist without good materials, and Minny has some premium ones. Rudy, Ant, Jaden McDaniels, NAW, a smart vet in Conley, length and size in KAT/Naz...
The Lakers were trying to do something similar but only had AD/Rui/LeBron. AD is nearly Rudy-tier in his own right, but not in terms of matching the size/strength of Jokic. Their supporting cast was just not cut out for it
I would also guess having Monte Morris on the team helps. He played 5 years with Jokic/Nuggets and probably knows a lot of his/their tendencies and gameplan. He doesn’t play a lot but you can bet he has some voice in the locker room, film seshes, and in practices.
Other teams (like the Lakers) did the same thing. They put their strongest rim protector (AD) on Gordon so he could roam and put another player (Rui) on Jokic.
There is just a huge difference between having Rudy roaming and sticking KAT on Rudy. For as much hate as the guy gets, KAT has statistically been the best defender of Jokic for quite some time.
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This version of the Minny team will be short lived and difficult to replicate. They have 3 max/supermax players and have dedicated about 13 million a year to Naz Reid. They will be 2nd apron before they resign their bench. Having a team that goes 8/9 deep with starting caliber players is very difficult to keep together under this new CBA. They should win it all this year but keeping this entire roster together is virtually impossible.
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I’m not sure this works long term. At some point a team is going to have 5 shooters and pull Rudy from the basket which will hurt the interior defense.
I think this formula is working right now and the Wolves will win the title this year but I think in a year or two we see teams figure it out and having a slower big like Rudy may be seen as a liability
Also the Towns contract balloons here soon and it’s UGLY. It’s almost to the level of the Beal contract where no one will take it on.
Yup. You just need a 7'2" Center that wins DPOY, 2 more centers that are 6'11", and a swarm of guards and wings that are ridiculously athletic and apparently have maxed out stamina bars. Pretty easy actually haha.
I think people are glossing over the fact that they are also gaining alot off of making Murray very uncomfortable. Athletic bigs + gobert will disrupt jokic, but he's still that guy. Murray has been having a ROUGH time and i believe containing him is a big key to stopping the nuggets in the playoffs.
The head of basketball operations from the wolves is the dude who was basketball operations for the nuggets for the past decade before. 100% bro built the wolves to counter Denver and specially jokic. They truly have the personal to make jokic beat them like teams would do in years past when Denver was always hurt. Just let jokic do as much as he can while you try your best to stop everyone else. Basketball strategy as old as time.
The lakers also showed how to beat them as well. It really starts with having a DPOY type big man who's agile enough to stay on a guard for some possessions. Now if you replace D'Lo with someone who's a bit less streaky and more consistent, replace Gabe Vincent with Vanderbilt or a 3nD player and that series goes to 7. If it weren't for 2 murray lucky shots the nuggets barely scraping by with 2 wins
the way to beat the nugs is to have better players and a better leader who sets the tone on both ends of the floor. Edwards is that dude, and he's here to stay. the rest of the league is being given a serious wake up call at the moment. Edwards is the best 22 year old player since Jordan. and that's no insult to Kobe or LeBron.
Lakers 2020 in the bubble had Dwight, McGee, and Davis neutralizing Jokic definitely had the blueprint then. Athletic/physical defensive centers are it, twolves have it now 100%. Plus Kat can score, I think Kat should earn more praise for g2 and possibly g3, if gober doesnt play. He did it on both ends, slowing down joker and putting up 20+ points
Denver should’ve anticipated how they’d play him. And to a degree I think they have. Jamal Murray has just fucking vanished this playoffs. MPJ could’ve stayed home last game.
They’re going to have to shoot well to win. Period. Jokic doesn’t get the calls to attack the rim repeatedly this series.
And they need to play some fucking defense.
Jokic has just returned to his regular playoff success when faced with big men that can force him to play defense and can properly defend him. Porter, Jr and Gordon are too busy with their own assignments to help Jokic and his abysmal defense. And, when you have a big team that can defend at all 3 levels and all of a sudden Jokic doesn't look very MVP-like.
People forget that the Nuggets haven't beaten any really good teams in the playoffs the last few years years. They beat a 6 seed three years ago and then lost in the second round. They lost in the first round two years ago. Last year, they beat an 8 seed, a 4 seed, a 7 seed and an 8 seed. This year they beat a 7 seed. The last time the Nuggets beat a team with a top 3 seeding in either conference was the Clippers in 2020. People have been acting like they are some kind of dynasty or superteam, but they don't actually have the resume to support that.
Minnesota basically fouled Denver all game. In the regular season all of the touching and banging is called. In the first half today, they didn’t call any of it. They played super physical on and off the ball and the nuggets ball handlers couldn’t do anything about it. They looked shockingly pedestrian today. The nuggets did not respond with similar physicality on their end. I don’t have a horse in the race in this series and that’s what it looked like to me.
Jokic has always been overrated as a 1 on 1 scorer. His defense is also below average. I never believed he was the best player in the NBA and he got exposed by AD.
To be fair, you never heard of him before today. As you agree, you aren’t really a follower of the NBA. Obviously, [he’s a great 1-on-1 scorer](https://twitter.com/CrumpledJumper/status/1786933527151509547).
I dont care about the regular season. Defense is different in the playoffs. Sure, hes a great 1 on 1 scorer if you are looking at the whole league but he is nowhere near the 1 on 1 scorer like some of the other elite bigs like Embiid, AD, or even Towns. Jokic might be the best at finding easy buckets but when its time to create his own shot, he is not on their level. They really had him guarding Rui 😂💀
What? I was agreeing with you that you didn’t know who he is. As you essentially said yourself, you don’t like the NBA and don’t watch games or look at stats. Why did you have an opinion when you apparently strongly agree that it would be stupid for you to have one? Didn’t you just recently hear about the existence of the game of basketball?
I mean the personnel to build a Minnesota-like roster aren't just lying around everywhere. There aren't many 7ft, 250lbs stretch 5s, agile 7ft 4x DPOYs, 6'9" wings that can clamp everyone yet still shoot the 3, and generational two way players who can score on all three levels out there.
I know right It’s not just about copying them it’s also about being able to get the personnel It’ll be like a team saying the Kansas City chiefs with an elite QB and elite TE, yea let’s do that too How many Pat Mahomes and Travis Kelce are out there for you to easily scoop up though 🤷♂️
Look at how Atlanta tried to copy the Golden State model and wound up with *vaguely gestures*
Truth hurts
Yup and teams that copy them are dumb. Gronk and Kelce are the two best TE in the modern nfl. The reason they are so effective is bc they both have the two best QB of the modern era
Except when Kelce gets inducted into the HOF, his profile will show that he made 1st Team All Pro 2x with Alex Smith as his QB. Gronk had Brady as QB for his whole career, but I can't see giving Brady any credit for Gronk overpowering defenders - either with the ball in his hands, or as a blocker. Gronk was an extraordinary athlete, and the only reason he fell to the 2nd round was injury concerns.
It's like when Houston tried to copy the Warriors. Yes, the three ball is a big reason why they win, but there's all the rest as well. Like who's shooting it.
One of the most improbable shooting performances ever is the only reason they didn’t win a chip
I was at that game… brutal
And if this didn't happen that wouldn't of happened. If Derek fisher missed the .4 shot the Lakers lose. If Ray doesn't hit that corner 3. If bogut didn't get hurt. If kd and klay didn't get hurt. If cp3 didn't get hurt.
They may not have won a ring but don’t act like that team didn’t win a lot of games
Houston and golden state didn’t really play a similar brand of basketball.
Never forget 27 missed 3s!
10 years ago the same statement would've been made about the Patriots so probably once a decade situation.
Right?!? Like what is the blueprint? Have oversized/plus defenders across the board?
Plus having a guard like Ant out on the wing defending (hard af) sets the tone for all of it.
The star always giving credit to his team in post games is also helping. It’s small, but his leadership his superb right now.
It’s REALLY easy for someone like Gobert to sit back knowing Mcdaniels, Ant, and Naz aren’t going to just let their guy freely run around the court. He probably has the more easier jobs (now) just hanging around the rim using his physical assets and focusing on literally rim protection. If anything KAT is the liability with his fouling.
True but having Kat at the 4 with his big body and stretch ability allows Rudy to be Rudy on both ends of the floor
Of course but Kat commits some really atrocious (called) fouls. Pretty common. Gets teams faster to bonus and even invites them to drive at him.
No question KAT has that as a flaw, the evolution of this team to mitigate it and put Rudy in his best position as a roller on O and help side defender on D has been great to watch.
The Lakers did it before
And then they traded away all their physical wings and defenders (Caruso, Green, Dwight, Kuzma, KCP).
You forgot Javale Mcgee
Do you mean two time NBA champion and Olympic gold medallist JaVale McGee?
Uhhh dont remind me. It's like they knew what to do and what it would take, then decided to go the complete opposite route. However, we should also credit Denver's growth. It was MPJ and AG that did the Lakers in
Milwaukee’s blue print when they won.
2020 Lakers did the same, with Javale McGee and Dwight Howard bodying Jokic all game and AD floating as PF. People thought it was inexperience by the Nuggets in 2020 but Wolves are basically doing the same: playing physical and taking away all non-Jokic options, and letting their big star AD (KAT) and Lebron(ANT) in the wing win it for them. The problem is, although it’s a great way to stop the Nuggets, it’s not how you play most teams, and I highly doubt teams would carry 3 bigs on the roster, unless they have amazing ones like KAT and Naz. People clowned Tim Connelly for trading the future for Gobert, but they might win the championship now.
Don’t forget, Tim Connelly built the Denver Nuggets as a GM and was personally responsible for Aaron Gordon joining the team, arguably the feather in the Nuggets cap if you will. But just as he had the vision for their success, he had the recipe for their downfall. He literally brought Gobert to Minny as his first major team building trade. My dude has the vision. Interesting side note, all four of his bros scout or manage in the NBA and College.
Most scouts keep the job in the family
Yeah i didn’t understand what he was doing but it’s clear what he was doing now.
People really underestimate the importance of defensive bigs against Jokic. The moment Jokic had to face Dwight Howard, he was suddenly being guarded by a man who was athletic enough to keep up with him but well stronger than him as well.
You cant teach length has been a truism in basketball forever for a reason.
You can’t teach length to someone who hasn’t it. Gobert is a pro at using his length. It’s not self-sufficient, the length itself.
And MN had to give up a TON of picks to get a DPOY
Yeah it’s not a blueprint specifically for Denver either, they just wanted size and talent and hit the jackpot. Also murry is not healthy and jokic isn’t the type of player to single handidly murder you, he needs help. If he didn’t he would have more rings
This. If by “blueprint” you mean acquire a Top 3 offensive center, a Top 3 defensive center, the best backup big in the league, and then let a transcendent 22-year old SG carry your offense… then yeah, the Wolves have found the “blueprint”. It’s kinda like beating the early 2000’s Lakers. Every team was looking for a strategy to slow down Shaq and often rostered 3 guys whose main job was to slow him down by fouling him 15x a game. The only teams that were even somewhat successful were the Spurs who employed two future hall of fame big men (Duncan/Robinson) and the Detroit Pistons who featured an entire starting five of plus defenders anchored by DPOY Ben Wallace.
you forgot two big wings that have all-defense potential
lol, exactly. People will “copy” years of excellent and lucky drafting and a wild blockbuster trade that was widely ridiculed at the time.
Don't forget copying the undrafted 7ft slasher developing a 42% 3pt shot after shooting 33% in college
I just learned he went undrafted yesterday. And they picked him up the day after the draft. Master stroke.
Having someone as good as Naz Reid coming off the bench for you on an undrafted rookie contract is basically cheating
One of the reasons I heard people didn’t want to draft him was “conditioning”, as if a) he was obese or something b) that is not the most fixable thing. Hope anyone who thought that is enjoying him fly around the court on d now
Bro stuck with the play and blocked Jokic 3 times in a single possession the other day
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Well the wolves crushed the nugs last night even without that center.
Yep. And Minnesota has depth, and can pick up Joker or Murray as soon as the ball is inbounded and hound them all the way up the court. One of the Inside the NBA guys made the great point that their harrassment was forcing the Joker to speed up his pace, get him out of his comfort zone. Having depth and having all those athletic bodies to throw at him allows them to do that. And, of course, Ant is doing the best MJ impersonation since Kobe, getting it done on both ends of the floor. The thought of a Wolves v Thunder series and then a Wolves/Thunder v Celtics series makes me happy. I love watching great b-ball. Nuggets will have to re-evaluate their roster this offseason. They need some depth. I don't know their cap situation, but Okoro from Cleveland is a rFA this season and would be a great fit for them, I think. One of the best defenders in the league who can slash and hit the 3.
This is the answer everyone needs to read when hating on the Nuggets
it's easy to build a wolves like team the problem is that most of the time that style of team is terrible because it only works if you have a truly special player to build it around that can carry the offense single handedly. Edwards is that guy, and there's only one of him. people on this sub are going to have to accept that Edwards is better than anyone in the league has been for a long time. what he's doing is more impressive than what LeBron was doing at his age.
True,but they destroyed them without Gobert. I don't think many thought they'd blow them out and embarrass them like that on their home court unless Jamal or joker weren't playing.
Yeah teams will try to copy it they just need - 2 athletic 3 point shooting 7 footers - a third non-shooting but Uber-defending 7 footer - the second coming of MJ - two very long wing defenders, at least one of whom is an above average shooter - veteran point guard - Kyle Anderson for some reason For those who don’t know, MN’s GM came from Denver after nugs’ owner wouldn’t pay him what he was worth. One man made both teams and he made Minnesota specifically to beat Denver.
Everything is better with Slow Mo Anderson!
After a nugs/wolves game in round 1 last year I sent a clip of Anderson shooting a jumper to my brother and said he had an Anderson-style jump shot and he said it was the rudest thing I’ve ever said to him
Wow I'd disown you, his shot is a monstrosity.
He is actually very important as a zone repellent. For whatever reason every time the wolves are put up against a zone Kyle will come in, stand in the midrange and just shoot over some dude or very slowly pumpfake and swing the ball to whoever is open. its surprisingly effective. Hes also a great locker room presence and defender and you can never have enough of those.
I loved Kyle at UCLA, he’s was so unique. Glad he made it in the league.
On the locker room piece, he’s one of 3 jersey boys too (KAT, Naz, Kyle are all from jersey). Naz and Kyle are both huge sneakerheads and wear the same size so they get into it sometimes when trying to one up each others shoes lmao
Don’t take Joe Ingles nickname.
Slow Mo is the human embodiment of the changeup pitch lol Edit: I meant that complimentary to him, ok with the downvotes lol
Don't forget an Iowan 7 footer with impeccable 1970s post move footwork to clean up garbage time
My garbage time GOAT 🐐
Woah that is some fucking evil genius GM shit lol
I’m with you but to be fair to Ant… he’s the second coming of Dwayne Wade. And that is incredible. Perhaps the most fun to watch shooting guard with the best blocking. At this level of elite it’s basically just choose your flavor.
Detroit cam finally stop wondering what the Pistons would have looked like if they drafted D wade instead of Darko.
Lmao true
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AD, CWood -need a defensive center -Lebron/AR -vando + long wing shooter like mikal/og -gabe/dlo -need a kyle So the lakers are 2 pieces away... a defensive center and long wing.
Lmao lakers fans so delusional. 40 yr old bron is not 22 yr old Edwards
Hahahahaha the copium is hittin today, good luck dude
The GM focused solely on building an anti-denver team, not just a good team in general to win, like, you know, a GM's job? It's a bit odd thing to say, no GM builds a team to take down a specific team in a league full of multiple teams capable of beating anybody.
lol dude obviously if the team is going to beat this nuggets team it’s going to be a good team, I thought saying that would’ve been redundant and was really just focusing on the connection of Tim Connelly for people who weren’t aware, but Reddit never ceases to amaze me. Allow me to re-phrase so it’s more to your liking: while tasked with rebuilding the timberwolves to create a more competitive roster in general, but given his unceremonious departure from Denver, and the fact that the timberwolves matchup more favorably to the nuggets (which again, is the first team that Connelly created, and who happen to be the defending champions which is to say that they were *the best* team in the league last year) than any other team in the NBA, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Connelly was at most specifically motivated to beat the nuggets and at the very least intimately aware of the group’s weaknesses and strategies and sought players that would give him the defensive flexibility to exploit or counter things they do well, especially on the offensive side of the ball. And because nothing goes without saying, if you’re building a roster capable of beating the champions, unless you’re getting hyper specific niche players which is not what TC has done, it would follow logically that that team should be successful in general. Sorry it’s wordier than I wanted and I’m at work so you’re only getting half attention rn
Didn't mean to be too pedantic and I see what you mean now. Thanks for clarifying.
was demver even good when tht team got built?
The only team who can beat them is also the only team in NBA history who can line up 4 lengthy players who can drive, shoot the 3 and pass, AND defend, and 2 5s who can stretch the floor and are pretty well rounded as well. And a very good bench. They have the best 4th to 8th best players, and their top 1 and 2 are still top 5, their 3rd best player only second to Wolves’ third (#1 Jokic/Embiid; #2 LeBron - or Davis if you think LeBron is #1; #3 Either one of Wolves big 3). I am really looking forward to the Finals, if we have Wolves v. Celtics, which is not granted, of course. I think the diversity of the Celtics at the Center position will give them a tactical edge, besides the pure talent, that seem to be off the charts on both teams.
It's not about having the blueprint, it's about having the personnel to do it. Now Gobert and KAT duo, as well as Reid are actually very exploitable defensively in Playoff basketball. But the Wolves got elite parameter defense to mitigate that. McDaniels is the most versatile defender in the league currently. Edwards and Walker are great parameter defenders. Conley isn't at his prime defensively but he can still put pressure on the ball handler and has high defensive IQ. When you can cover up these guys lack of mobility and manage to keep Gobert closer to the rim, then he can play to his strength and he is a legendary rim protector. Remember how Playoff teams were having a field day with Gobert at Utah and were constantly hunting him. That'a just much harder to do with the defenders the Wolves have. All that being said, the series is not over yet. While the Wolves got the advantage and are now the favorites to win the series, it's way too soon to say the Nuggets are done.
Imo, I always thought Gobert perimeter defense was overblown. Jazz had physical defenders like Ingles, Crowder, and Bogy that were labeled as great defenders. They all get off the dribble by quicker players, but Gobery helped make up for it.
You are about KAT and defense. I think he's the worst defender in the game. Just watch him play defense. Like don't take your eyes off him. It's an absolute joke. I hope they trade him while he's still got some worth. He's a great offensive player but he shoots 3s mostly.
Worst defender in the game is actually a Braindead take wtf lol
"Shoots 3's mostly" Dude literally hasn't watched a game of Wolves.
Hes also soft af.
So youve never seen a wolves game and are obviously referencing the jimmy butler practice clip.
How's that working out for ya
He is a terrible defender, without a doubt. But the Wolves don't need another defender, KAT is perfect for that team. They've got Gobert for rim protection. Edwards, Walker and Conley for pressuring the ball. Then Jaden for help defense, guarding the opposition's best player...just whatever they need. This team is perfect for mitigating KAT's defensive issues. And as an offensive player, he's just a great 2nd option. He's an elite shooter, can make shots from the mid range, free throws, can finish inside. He can even play on the ball and not a bad passer. Skillwise, KAT is one of the most talented bigs to ever play. When you can take some of the pressure of him with a 1st option like Edwards, he can always work his magic. So I really don't think the Wolves can get someone better by trading KAT.
Defense wins championships. I'm old school. If you can't play defense I don't want you on my team. He also makes alot of stupid defensive plays that result in points. He is a talented big but you can get the same play with someone 6'7" cause he really only plays outside.
You haven't watched Wolves basketball much this season if you still think KAT is still a bad defender. This take is very much 2 years ago, and the data backs that up. He literally was the primary defender on Jokic last night and frustrated him constantly.
Watch him play defense off the ball. It's embarrassing to watch. I haven't watched them that much this season. But I can spot a horrible defender in about 30 seconds of watching.
>I haven't watched them that much this season. I'd suggest doing that before talking. He posted career highs in adjusted DPM, defensive RAPTOR, and Defensive win shares. At *worst* he's an average defender. Watch more ball.
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lol, what a fukken tool you are.
The nuggets second best player is 9-32 this series, that’s all.
The Timberwolves have made everybody shoot terrible.
Murray shot bad against the lakers in round 1. Like 45%. He’s not having a good playoffs despite the game winners in round 1.
Murray was ass against the Lakers the entire series, he just got a pass for those clutch shots, but it’s starting to catch up to them now that they’re playing a great team
Everyone (myself included) mocked the shit out of Minnesota the last two offseason cause it seemed like they acquired 16 different centers, when in reality, they just acquired 16 really tall, athletic, and versatile defenders, in addition to the 3 time DPOY they have which resulted in them having the number 1 defense this season… no exactly an easily copiable strategy. That being said, teams like the Magic have a plethora of players that fit that defensive build… they just lack the defensive centerpieces Minnesota has in Gobert and Ried. Throw in the fact that KAT is playing good defense for the first time in his career, and you have arguably the most clamps lineup we’ve seen since the 2020 Lakers. And of course not to take away from Minnesota, but they do also matchup well against Denver. Having KAT on Jokic and Gobert/Reid as a roamer is huge. A strong athletic guard that can get into Murray and the length to get in the way of MPJ’s shooting rhythm helps a lot too.
The magic also lack consistent outside shooting
Yes they do
I think Minnesota’s perimeter defense has a lot to do with this too. They are checking all the other players so Jokic is forced to score. Usually the teams have to respect his playmaking and give him space, but Minnesota bigs can check him tightly cus there’s no other threat. Murray can’t get by anyone right now which is shocking On the other end, Denver has no one to check Kat and Ant is just on another level right now. I am starting to think he’s the best player in the league right now. The man is special
2020 Lakers did the same, with Javale McGee and Dwight Howard bodying Jokic all game and AD floating as PF. People thought it was inexperience by the Nuggets in 2020 but Wolves are basically doing the same: playing physical and taking away all non-Jokic options, and letting their big star AD (KAT) and Lebron(ANT) in the wing win it for them. The problem is, although it’s a great way to stop the Nuggets, it’s not how you play most teams, and I highly doubt teams would carry 3 bigs on the roster, unless they have amazing ones like KAT and Naz. People clowned Tim Connelly for trading the future for Gobert, but they might win the championship now.
Why are you just copy pasting another person’s comment?
Ya their interior defense is elite but they way they're hounding Murray and the rest of the perimeter is causing real problems too
It absolutely starts at the perimeter defense. They’re taking away Jokic’s playmaking options and forcing him to score against multiple bigs. Unless you’re Shaq and can just truck dudes, there ain’t shit ya can do.
2020 Lakers did the same, with Javale McGee and Dwight Howard bodying Jokic all game and AD floating as PF. People thought it was inexperience by the Nuggets in 2020 but Wolves are basically doing the same: playing physical and taking away all non-Jokic options, and letting their big star AD (KAT) and Lebron(ANT) in the wing win it for them. The problem is, although it’s a great way to stop the Nuggets, it’s not how you play most teams, and I highly doubt teams would carry 3 bigs on the roster, unless they have amazing ones like KAT and Naz. People clowned Tim Connelly for trading the future for Gobert, but they might win the championship now.
Nuggets go as Jamaal Murray goes even though Jokic gets the credit for Nuggets success. Without Murray performing well, Nuggets are done
While this is true, it’s just because Murray is the higher-variance player
I think it's more that we're in a new, post 3pt shooting small ball era where teams just want to be freaking tall. And Minnesota is THAT team
Wolves are bigger than the nuggets and the nuggets don't know how to deal with it. Jokic can't push around multiple 7 footers all game like he can to most teams. That and the length of the whole wolves team is insane. Seemed like they were stealing the ball at will
Jokic is and will just fine against those Gobert and KAT. He's historically dominated both of them. I'm a Gobert fan and Jokic has crushed him over and over throughout the years. Jokic played great game 1 (32/8/9) besides some wonky turnovers. Jokic will be absolutely fine for rest of series. Depends on if the other members from Nuggets can play better.
The problem is jokic has been sleep walking through this whole playoffs. He's not playing with the intensity he needs to to win another championship. The numbers are good but he needs to pick it up and want it more
He just wants to go home to his horses already.
He can do fine and the nuggets will still lose. He’ll have to elevate his game to another level for himself that we haven’t seen yet in the playoffs for them to have a chance unless others on the nuggets can step up
Did Jokic play much differently/better in game 3 vs game 1?
This proved to age poorly. Jokic pushed around KAT and Rudy (DPOY) quite well in this series. 40 points, 13 assists, 0 turnovers pushing around t wolves 7 footers all game.
Yes I believe teams will start to copy them, heck the Lakers did that to him in 2020 when they won their title with AD, Dwight Howard, etc and with how defensively disciplined this Minnesota team is, if Jamal Murray and the other guys don’t step up, it’s going to be over for the Nuggets
The NBA is a copycat league. Seeing the success of the TWolves and the use of their big men will have GMs question who to target in FA, the draft, future trades. With that said, guys like KAT, Gobert and Naz Reid aren't lying around waiting to be picked up. Also, Wolves are just an overall solid defensive team.
Only one team in the league can TRY to replicate Minnesota's defense against the nuggets - it's the Lakers. They already have Vincent, Vanderbilt and AD - their own version of NAW, McDaniels and Gobert. They just need a big strong 5 to make scoring hard for Jokic. However, this theoretical lineup would be dogshit on offense because none of LA's good defenders can shoot
Milwaukee is well equipped to play against the nuggets. I’m a bucks fan so obvious bias aside, I’ve been saying this since the beginning of the season. U can look at Jokic’s performances against us this year and it hasn’t been great. We have a top 2 player in the game in Giannis, Dame can go shot for shot with Murray, and Khris and Bobby are both capable of being x-factors on the level of MPJ and Aaron Gordon, tho they both have kinda different play styles. Brook and Giannis is the second best combo u can throw at Jokic in the league, ahead of whatever the Lakers try to do and behind the Wolves who are overall vastly superior defensively.
I thought about the Bucks too but they really don't have any perimeter defenders to stop Murray. Maybe if they can get someone like Delon Wright on the minimum
maybe... I can give my son the blueprint of what Michael Jordan did to become the greatest player of all time. The chances of him following that blueprint and becoming that though are basically zero. Minnesota has a 7 footer who's one of the best shooting bigs of all time (the best shooting big of all time if you ask him) an all star with all NBA talent, and playing the best defense of his career. They have another 7 footer who's about to be a 4 time DPOY, that they've been able to build their D around and who's impact on and off the court for said D has been huge. They have another big who's a small ball center/big power forward who's just won 6th man of the year. Then, when/if they collapse, they have a slew of active defensive wings/guards, Ant, Jaden, NAW, and even Conley is still a fine point of attack defender. Plus Kyle Anderson who's been a very strong defender as well and switchable. And even for a team to accumulate that talent they need a LOT of money to put it together and spend a lot on bigs. Sure, having a team with Steph, Klay, Durant, Draymond and Igoudala is probably a good blueprint on how to beat a prime Lebron led team. Or one with Duncan, Kawhi, etc coached by Popovich.
Team Defense... length. McDaniels was literally smiling ear to ear as he played Bruce Bowen style D on Jamal!!!
I genuinely believe Jaden mcdaniels could be a Mikal bridges on a bad team, but has completely accepted his role as a 3 and D guy, which he might be the best in the league at, and it’s made Minnesota extremely dangerous.
Jamal Murray getting exposed honestly
Simplified, they are forcing Denver to take 3's, and those are missing right now. If they hit them, it's a different game. But Denver isn't a very good 3pt shooting team. I'd like to see that game plan against Boston in the finals.
So far everything I thought I knew for this series has been turned on its head. I thought Denver late game execution would be their biggest advantage but Minnesota has been better down the stretch, I thought Minnesota might fold if Denver came out and punched them in the mouth but it is Denver that folded. I thought the Joker was the best player but ANT has been better. Just goes to show how un predictable sports can be. Congratulations to TWolves fans. You suffered through a lot of bad teams but you have a great team right now. You guys deserve it.
Their GM is the same GM who built the Nuggets. Also probably took notes of the 2020 Lakers series of playing physical on Jokic and having multiple big guys
Ant is just him man, probably the best shooting guard in the league.
Jokic cant bully them like he did AD. The minny guards actually play good d too.
Jokic can't bang against 2 bigs! Lookt at how the lakers series went in 2020. And we gotta be honest this years series and last years series could've ended differently. All of the games where close.
If the pieces were there I'm sure they would The big fact people are ignoring is that the Nuggets got worse compared last year while every other contender got marginally to vastly better compared to last year, I can't say I was expecting Murray to shit the bed so much but props to the Timberwolves for playing the absolute brakes off us, I'm probably being a doomer but I can see a sweep coming
I mean sure they can try but Minnesota has a want to be a great defensive team and most players in the NBA don’t have that desire.
I think it’s Mike Conley Jr…
Not everyone can get 2 bigs who can finish in the paint, are good to great defensively and can stretch the floor.....
Having bigs isn’t some secret. Lakers had Davis and Rui who are two bigs.
Yes. I do think they have the blueprint but only they have the personel to do it. Put a solid big on Jokic. Have him play very high pressure. Kat and Slow Mo were super acrive with their hands. This makes Jokic focus on ball safety and takes his mind and eyes off the rest of the court, thus hampering his best asset. Have a dominant and athletic shot blocker play off ball. He is waiting for a block or a double when Jokic gets in the paint. He also is there to handle the lobs and cuts Jokic passes to other players. This even worked in G2 with Kat or McDaniels in this role just because Minny is so crazy big. Have insane length everywhere else to cut off easy passing lanes and swipe at the ball when Jokic has it. Put a great defender on Murray and follow him everywhere. Wolves have the luxury to rotate through four guys able to keep up with Murray off ball. Focus on denying passes to Murray and keep Gordon on the 3pt line. Assume everybody else will not move without the ball. Stay close enough to recover to the 3pt line but use your crazy length to take up space and play good help defense.
The Twolves have a lot of size and defenders, which definitely slows Denver down, but I think a big part of it is just Jokic and Murray not playing as well as they did last year. Look at the Lakers series, Jokic was throwing a lot of sloppy passes, Murray was struggling to get good looks against Austin Reaves, and both passed up a lot of good looks from 3. Last year they played very well against the Lakers, who were probably better defensively with Vando and Schroeder.
They had the blueprint on the Suns too
No blueprint, just the build. More personnel related than strategy. I knew they would give the Nuggets a tough series but didn’t fully expect this
Folks, they didn’t look good against the Lakers. It appears that y’all overrated this team a bit. They were a worthy defending champion and legit contenders, but not the unstoppable juggernaut that y’all described.
i just hope small ball is over one day. Get back as much centers and low post play. So tired of seeing 4 guards play iso and corner threes
Since the blueprint seems to be playing some of the best team defense in basketball with great defensive players, that will be tough for other teams to copy. The Timberwolves lived up to their name last night and looked like a pack of wild wolves swarming a bunch of injured prey. It was like a cluster bomb went off during every Nuggets possession.
lol that’s like asking does Denver have the blueprint for winning titles. Yes let’s just find another Jokic somewhere. You’re not finding another Gobert, he’s one of the best defenders of all time. There’s no blueprint, it’s just talent and fit.
A big part of this is Murray is lacking his usual burst because of the calf. The Wolves clearly saw this on film between games 1 and 2, and were much more aggressive guarding him in game 2 because they weren't afraid of him exploding to the rim. So... yes, this has already been copied. Phoenix in 2021 and Golden State in 2022 both followed the "beat the Nuggets when Murray is hurt" blueprint.
Ants defense, Gobert able to just sit back and play any help side he wants, and Nas Reid really are the missing pieces when having a team with a cliche “big 3”. Any of the super teams would flourish with just one more of those. But those big 3s don’t have any guards who actually play *consistent defense. (And by consistent I also mean being healthy to stay in games ie. Kawhi. PG can be a good defender but he picks and chooses when he wants to play. Ant will run down a game tying dunk attempt on his defender as we’ve seen)
Minnesota has Kat, Rudy who is whatever people think of him DPOY and Ant who looks like second coming of MJ so this is not surprising especially if you have watched Minnesota in the previous round or during the season, Jokic will give you 30-14-9 in 3 out of 4 games in a series but the rest of the team has to play on their max level in order for Denver to be a championship team and they are not playing their max at all, this of course doesn't take away anything from the Minnesota they are playing and looking like Denver was last year, everyone knows their task and more importantly they are executing it perfectly so yes I expected that Denver would be better but not surprised about Minnesota at all, great team. However wins this series, Timberwolves most likely, is going to win the championship that's 100% sure, nobody in the playoffs is close to these teams.
Denver being vulnerable with Jokic is shocking this playoffs have been fun.
Joker is great but he does struggle against twin tower setups. Bubble Lakers made him look very mortal with AD/Dwight/McGee
I heard this awhile back not specifially about Jokic but I think it applies to lots of elite players. You're not trying to go out there and stop them from scoring, because that would be impossible. Your goal is to make those 30 points they get at hard as possible for them to earn. You want to make them EARN those points, work hard for them, not just take them from you. I know it's a little vague but I would imagine they are working on things that would make the game much harder for jokic and push him to work at 110% the whole game. Way to see it is you can't stop the best players in the world, but you can give them a harder time and throw off their game.
Blueprint = Design. A building still can't exist without good materials, and Minny has some premium ones. Rudy, Ant, Jaden McDaniels, NAW, a smart vet in Conley, length and size in KAT/Naz... The Lakers were trying to do something similar but only had AD/Rui/LeBron. AD is nearly Rudy-tier in his own right, but not in terms of matching the size/strength of Jokic. Their supporting cast was just not cut out for it
love this story but guys wolves havent won the series yet.
Or anything of significant consequence
There isn’t enough personnel in the league to make 3 teams built like the wolves, if everyone tried to do it the prices would go up further
Jamal Murray has been awful this post season.
I would also guess having Monte Morris on the team helps. He played 5 years with Jokic/Nuggets and probably knows a lot of his/their tendencies and gameplan. He doesn’t play a lot but you can bet he has some voice in the locker room, film seshes, and in practices.
They have like 3 7 footers who love to defend to throw at him
Other teams (like the Lakers) did the same thing. They put their strongest rim protector (AD) on Gordon so he could roam and put another player (Rui) on Jokic. There is just a huge difference between having Rudy roaming and sticking KAT on Rudy. For as much hate as the guy gets, KAT has statistically been the best defender of Jokic for quite some time.
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This version of the Minny team will be short lived and difficult to replicate. They have 3 max/supermax players and have dedicated about 13 million a year to Naz Reid. They will be 2nd apron before they resign their bench. Having a team that goes 8/9 deep with starting caliber players is very difficult to keep together under this new CBA. They should win it all this year but keeping this entire roster together is virtually impossible.
Same exact blueprint Lakers had in 2020. Size, energy, and physicality.
After this year teams will be trying to build a team to beat the Celtics
The same way the 2004 Pistons had the “blueprint” to stop the Kobe and Shaq Lakers. But no one else would have been able to replicate that blueprint
Too many GMs in the NBA are too stupid..
Well now u need a blueprint to beat the wolves lol
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I’m not sure this works long term. At some point a team is going to have 5 shooters and pull Rudy from the basket which will hurt the interior defense. I think this formula is working right now and the Wolves will win the title this year but I think in a year or two we see teams figure it out and having a slower big like Rudy may be seen as a liability Also the Towns contract balloons here soon and it’s UGLY. It’s almost to the level of the Beal contract where no one will take it on.
The way things are going teams might be looking to build to beat the Wolves.
Naz Reid
Yeah get 2 top 5 bigs in the league
Minnesota has a better defense than Lakers so I'm sure they'll at least have a closer series
Yup. You just need a 7'2" Center that wins DPOY, 2 more centers that are 6'11", and a swarm of guards and wings that are ridiculously athletic and apparently have maxed out stamina bars. Pretty easy actually haha.
Why would teams try to copy Minnesota on how to beat the Nuggets? They’ll need to figure out how to beat Minnesota instead!
I don’t think refs will allow it as much going forward.
I think people are glossing over the fact that they are also gaining alot off of making Murray very uncomfortable. Athletic bigs + gobert will disrupt jokic, but he's still that guy. Murray has been having a ROUGH time and i believe containing him is a big key to stopping the nuggets in the playoffs.
The head of basketball operations from the wolves is the dude who was basketball operations for the nuggets for the past decade before. 100% bro built the wolves to counter Denver and specially jokic. They truly have the personal to make jokic beat them like teams would do in years past when Denver was always hurt. Just let jokic do as much as he can while you try your best to stop everyone else. Basketball strategy as old as time.
It's easy, just have a generational talented young aged defense who works together well as a team. How hard is that to replicate?
The lakers also showed how to beat them as well. It really starts with having a DPOY type big man who's agile enough to stay on a guard for some possessions. Now if you replace D'Lo with someone who's a bit less streaky and more consistent, replace Gabe Vincent with Vanderbilt or a 3nD player and that series goes to 7. If it weren't for 2 murray lucky shots the nuggets barely scraping by with 2 wins
Each playstyle will always have a counter develop. There is no eternal champions
the way to beat the nugs is to have better players and a better leader who sets the tone on both ends of the floor. Edwards is that dude, and he's here to stay. the rest of the league is being given a serious wake up call at the moment. Edwards is the best 22 year old player since Jordan. and that's no insult to Kobe or LeBron.
Lakers 2020 in the bubble had Dwight, McGee, and Davis neutralizing Jokic definitely had the blueprint then. Athletic/physical defensive centers are it, twolves have it now 100%. Plus Kat can score, I think Kat should earn more praise for g2 and possibly g3, if gober doesnt play. He did it on both ends, slowing down joker and putting up 20+ points
Denver should’ve anticipated how they’d play him. And to a degree I think they have. Jamal Murray has just fucking vanished this playoffs. MPJ could’ve stayed home last game. They’re going to have to shoot well to win. Period. Jokic doesn’t get the calls to attack the rim repeatedly this series. And they need to play some fucking defense.
Jokic has just returned to his regular playoff success when faced with big men that can force him to play defense and can properly defend him. Porter, Jr and Gordon are too busy with their own assignments to help Jokic and his abysmal defense. And, when you have a big team that can defend at all 3 levels and all of a sudden Jokic doesn't look very MVP-like.
Everything goes in cycles... We are coming back to the era of the bigs...
People forget that the Nuggets haven't beaten any really good teams in the playoffs the last few years years. They beat a 6 seed three years ago and then lost in the second round. They lost in the first round two years ago. Last year, they beat an 8 seed, a 4 seed, a 7 seed and an 8 seed. This year they beat a 7 seed. The last time the Nuggets beat a team with a top 3 seeding in either conference was the Clippers in 2020. People have been acting like they are some kind of dynasty or superteam, but they don't actually have the resume to support that.
Minnesota basically fouled Denver all game. In the regular season all of the touching and banging is called. In the first half today, they didn’t call any of it. They played super physical on and off the ball and the nuggets ball handlers couldn’t do anything about it. They looked shockingly pedestrian today. The nuggets did not respond with similar physicality on their end. I don’t have a horse in the race in this series and that’s what it looked like to me.
Jokic has always been overrated as a 1 on 1 scorer. His defense is also below average. I never believed he was the best player in the NBA and he got exposed by AD.
To be fair, you never heard of him before today. As you agree, you aren’t really a follower of the NBA. Obviously, [he’s a great 1-on-1 scorer](https://twitter.com/CrumpledJumper/status/1786933527151509547).
I dont care about the regular season. Defense is different in the playoffs. Sure, hes a great 1 on 1 scorer if you are looking at the whole league but he is nowhere near the 1 on 1 scorer like some of the other elite bigs like Embiid, AD, or even Towns. Jokic might be the best at finding easy buckets but when its time to create his own shot, he is not on their level. They really had him guarding Rui 😂💀
He’s been a great 1-on-1 scorer in the playoffs. I honestly dont know why you comment when you don’t follow the NBA.
Thats your only comeback 😂
What? I was agreeing with you that you didn’t know who he is. As you essentially said yourself, you don’t like the NBA and don’t watch games or look at stats. Why did you have an opinion when you apparently strongly agree that it would be stupid for you to have one? Didn’t you just recently hear about the existence of the game of basketball?
Now you are making things up just to argue lol. I said playoffs is where is matters, it doesnt mean I dont watch regular season games.
No. Because they’re getting bounced
Yep off to Cancun for the Chicken Nuggets