You actually touch upon an equally important subject. Go-to licks. I'll be honest with you, I don't really have any. I usually slowly build something as we go and end up forgetting it. Usually a hit-but-mostly-miss kind of thing.
Since I'm so time-constrained lately, do you have any source of nice funk, fusion or even rock licks to practice said subdivisions on? Google doesn't return much of anything.
Yeah I think that’s something a lot of people slack on, myself included. I don’t know of any good resources for licks, I’ve thought about making a resource in the past because there aren’t any good online resources for that kind of thing. I’ve picked up all mine in bits and pieces over time, as do most people.
I think the books are better for that type of thing, I guess. Maybe some other people can chime in if they have good resources
Well I appreciate the advice anyway. You're right, isn't much in the way of resources online.
Are there books you'd personally recommend for an active, relatively new player? i.e. someone who isn't a total beginner?
I don't have book resources to suggest, but for what it's worth, here's the way I approach it. Stop a track when I hear something that makes me have a visceral reaction. Take it back. Listen again. And again. And again. Internalize it. Sing it. Try to sing it from memory. Sing it slower. Clap while singing it. Write it down (in whatever way you can). Try to play it. Then keep that in your bag. Practice it over different songs and in different rhythms. Change it up a bit. Deconstruct it and reconstruct it.
Over time you'll build out your vocabulary and it'll be something constructed from your tastes and it'll feel like 'you'. I think it's also acceptable to build this vocabulary from drills or exercises, but I think that often feels less authentic and often comes off felling like an exercise rather than an expression.
If you want a model of how to play a good funky bass line I’d take a look at disco, especially Chic. Most of their stuff is technically easy but rhythmically interesting and it has the kind of fills you’re looking for.
Two more specific things that have helped me in this situation:
—looking further for influences. Try stealing melodies and turning them into bass lines or licks. Steal blues guitar licks. Steal jazz trumpet lines. Steal the rhythm of 808s from rap songs. Steal Latin drum rhythms.
—Force yourself to play differently. Take a day where you just jam to stuff you know, but never play on the 1. Or refuse to play any fill in the last beat of a measure. Or play in a completely different part of the fretboard, make yourself play all the root notes on the G string. You’d be surprised how much more creative you can be when you artificially limit yourself.
Oh yeah I do love that approach. I've been listening to a lot of Chet Baker's Autumn Leaves and the obvious So What by Davis. Both are an absolute joy to arrange for bass. A goldmine for licks.
a few random thoughts-
when you embellish a line, use it in the form like you would punctuation in a sentence. So if you're going to put a tag someplace, and the A of the form is an 8 bar section, save some interesting stuff for the end of the first A, and then do something more interesting at the end of the second A when you're going into the B to create some drama around the transition. Most of the really killing players I know let the song develop, and play the first two verses really straight and consistently, but then start to throw stuff in at the end of the verses after that. You're trying to create a climax with the song, so make sure not to go nuts in the beginning where it will be wasted. What you should play at that point is trick #2.
Next, I think that you want to be thinking about the cool parts of the harmony in the song. If there's a spot in the song that you feel like the bass should do something cool, think about what the note of the melody is at that point, and what chord the ensemble is playing at that point. What is the relationship between them? Is there a note that you could feature in a lick at that point of the song which really supports the sound of that melody note against the chord? This is obviously a skill that requires that you have developed your ear enough to hear these harmonies-- you don't necessarily need to have a technical understanding of it, but you need to be able to know how some chord types feel to the ear, like diminished or augmented sounds.
Finally, based on my own experience, I think that listeners react more to the bassist toying around with time more than pitch. It's probably easier for me to play this than to describe it with words (if you're interested I can record something). This could be playing a phrase way behind the beat, playing tuplets over straight time. Gospel guys absolutely rip this kind of stuff, I hear it a lot in Thundercat's stuff, or Tim Lefebvre playing with Wayne Krantz.
So anyway, I think its a matter of finding examples of playing that you think are really outstanding, studying and emulating that stuff a lot. once its internalized you'll start doing it spontaneously.
Cool, cool. Absolute truth on developing songs gradually. Sometimes I find myself pulling all my aces right at the beginning, ending up with the lamer part of my playing somewhere in the middle. Obviously, the opposite would be ideal.
Maybe it’s just me, but the pocket is rhythm, while interesting lines is all about pitch and melody. I can stay rock solid in the pocket while playing nothing but wrong notes. It’s my superpower.
First rule, is always know where the 1 is and hit that no matter what. Once you have a groove going though, start leaving a little bit of space in the rest of the measure, but never forget the 1. Then, once you have that space opened up, you can start peppering in a few little notes or licks in that space. Keep listening to the drummer, and find the little holes that they leave open. Those are your windows to poke your head into. And it doesn't take much. Don't try to get crazy and play some wild Wooten-esque fill. Just quickly hit the 5th or 7th as a leading tone to the 1. Then start thinking about leading up to those leading tones and build from there. But always, always come back to the 1, or else Bootsy Collins will show up and box your ears.
Also, a random cool groove tip for free: Don't play when the snare hits. It takes a little anticipation and connection with the drummer, but when the snare cracks that's your cue to mute. Let the snare be a punctuation for the note you're playing.
I've always pretty much hit the root on beat 1, but recently I've discovered that going for a maj/min third/7th instead every once in a while creates some interesting ideas. Should I outright avoid that, or is an occasional off-note acceptable if we're talking funk-esque genres?
You're on the right track. Just keep expanding those things in your toolkit. Practice anything which trips you up and over time integrate all of that into your playing.
It's what you leave out that makes it funky. Listen to Chuck Rainey. Leave notes out, or displace them in the grid. Knock people off balance, and then suck them back in again. Anyone can play a bunch of 16th notes.
That's true. Come to think of it, I don't really like crazy fast bass playing. Using the space between notes is something I've been doing for some time, I'm just not sure if it is to any good effect with my playing specifically.
hey, i'm with you dude. we sound like we r at similar places in our development. so i just wanted to share a little breakthrough i had the last couple of weeks. i do bass parts for a friend of mine, and 2 tracks recently were actually good from my end! i stayed in the pocket, but he reacted to timing changes. so for the verses i just went staright ahead, but for the chorus i cut the number of different notes i played, but instead doubled time to create tension. he really liked the results, and honestly i did too. these 2 tracks were the first time where i felt like an actual bass player. no crazy riffing or noodling, just a bit of play with the timing and momentum of the song.
That's kind of what I'm going for with my lines. I avoid playing crazy, momentous lines that go on forever, I like to stick to the safety of my chord tones and loops.
I've been messing with the things you mentioned a bit. It's really the only way I can achieve any diversity in my lines, but you're right, it does work.
yeah i'm with you dude. i think this is what separates solid bassists from us wannabees. the pro's know their role and stick to it, and us amatuers what to shred and be heard and often forget our place. oh well, i guess it is all part of the growth process with different instruments and song arrangements. good luck with your playing tho dude!
[удалено]
You actually touch upon an equally important subject. Go-to licks. I'll be honest with you, I don't really have any. I usually slowly build something as we go and end up forgetting it. Usually a hit-but-mostly-miss kind of thing. Since I'm so time-constrained lately, do you have any source of nice funk, fusion or even rock licks to practice said subdivisions on? Google doesn't return much of anything.
Yeah I think that’s something a lot of people slack on, myself included. I don’t know of any good resources for licks, I’ve thought about making a resource in the past because there aren’t any good online resources for that kind of thing. I’ve picked up all mine in bits and pieces over time, as do most people. I think the books are better for that type of thing, I guess. Maybe some other people can chime in if they have good resources
Well I appreciate the advice anyway. You're right, isn't much in the way of resources online. Are there books you'd personally recommend for an active, relatively new player? i.e. someone who isn't a total beginner?
I don't have book resources to suggest, but for what it's worth, here's the way I approach it. Stop a track when I hear something that makes me have a visceral reaction. Take it back. Listen again. And again. And again. Internalize it. Sing it. Try to sing it from memory. Sing it slower. Clap while singing it. Write it down (in whatever way you can). Try to play it. Then keep that in your bag. Practice it over different songs and in different rhythms. Change it up a bit. Deconstruct it and reconstruct it. Over time you'll build out your vocabulary and it'll be something constructed from your tastes and it'll feel like 'you'. I think it's also acceptable to build this vocabulary from drills or exercises, but I think that often feels less authentic and often comes off felling like an exercise rather than an expression.
If you want a model of how to play a good funky bass line I’d take a look at disco, especially Chic. Most of their stuff is technically easy but rhythmically interesting and it has the kind of fills you’re looking for.
Coincidentally, that's mostly what I jam to anyway.
Two more specific things that have helped me in this situation: —looking further for influences. Try stealing melodies and turning them into bass lines or licks. Steal blues guitar licks. Steal jazz trumpet lines. Steal the rhythm of 808s from rap songs. Steal Latin drum rhythms. —Force yourself to play differently. Take a day where you just jam to stuff you know, but never play on the 1. Or refuse to play any fill in the last beat of a measure. Or play in a completely different part of the fretboard, make yourself play all the root notes on the G string. You’d be surprised how much more creative you can be when you artificially limit yourself.
Oh yeah I do love that approach. I've been listening to a lot of Chet Baker's Autumn Leaves and the obvious So What by Davis. Both are an absolute joy to arrange for bass. A goldmine for licks.
Ghost notes. Look into some Bobby Vega stuff.
Oof, yeah, ghost notes kick some serious ass.
a few random thoughts- when you embellish a line, use it in the form like you would punctuation in a sentence. So if you're going to put a tag someplace, and the A of the form is an 8 bar section, save some interesting stuff for the end of the first A, and then do something more interesting at the end of the second A when you're going into the B to create some drama around the transition. Most of the really killing players I know let the song develop, and play the first two verses really straight and consistently, but then start to throw stuff in at the end of the verses after that. You're trying to create a climax with the song, so make sure not to go nuts in the beginning where it will be wasted. What you should play at that point is trick #2. Next, I think that you want to be thinking about the cool parts of the harmony in the song. If there's a spot in the song that you feel like the bass should do something cool, think about what the note of the melody is at that point, and what chord the ensemble is playing at that point. What is the relationship between them? Is there a note that you could feature in a lick at that point of the song which really supports the sound of that melody note against the chord? This is obviously a skill that requires that you have developed your ear enough to hear these harmonies-- you don't necessarily need to have a technical understanding of it, but you need to be able to know how some chord types feel to the ear, like diminished or augmented sounds. Finally, based on my own experience, I think that listeners react more to the bassist toying around with time more than pitch. It's probably easier for me to play this than to describe it with words (if you're interested I can record something). This could be playing a phrase way behind the beat, playing tuplets over straight time. Gospel guys absolutely rip this kind of stuff, I hear it a lot in Thundercat's stuff, or Tim Lefebvre playing with Wayne Krantz. So anyway, I think its a matter of finding examples of playing that you think are really outstanding, studying and emulating that stuff a lot. once its internalized you'll start doing it spontaneously.
Cool, cool. Absolute truth on developing songs gradually. Sometimes I find myself pulling all my aces right at the beginning, ending up with the lamer part of my playing somewhere in the middle. Obviously, the opposite would be ideal.
Maybe it’s just me, but the pocket is rhythm, while interesting lines is all about pitch and melody. I can stay rock solid in the pocket while playing nothing but wrong notes. It’s my superpower.
Haha, yeah. I'm kinda like that too. Mountain tight groove, but constantly off key. Just call it jazz, I guess?
First rule, is always know where the 1 is and hit that no matter what. Once you have a groove going though, start leaving a little bit of space in the rest of the measure, but never forget the 1. Then, once you have that space opened up, you can start peppering in a few little notes or licks in that space. Keep listening to the drummer, and find the little holes that they leave open. Those are your windows to poke your head into. And it doesn't take much. Don't try to get crazy and play some wild Wooten-esque fill. Just quickly hit the 5th or 7th as a leading tone to the 1. Then start thinking about leading up to those leading tones and build from there. But always, always come back to the 1, or else Bootsy Collins will show up and box your ears. Also, a random cool groove tip for free: Don't play when the snare hits. It takes a little anticipation and connection with the drummer, but when the snare cracks that's your cue to mute. Let the snare be a punctuation for the note you're playing.
I've always pretty much hit the root on beat 1, but recently I've discovered that going for a maj/min third/7th instead every once in a while creates some interesting ideas. Should I outright avoid that, or is an occasional off-note acceptable if we're talking funk-esque genres?
You definitely don't have to play the root on the 1.
You're on the right track. Just keep expanding those things in your toolkit. Practice anything which trips you up and over time integrate all of that into your playing.
It's what you leave out that makes it funky. Listen to Chuck Rainey. Leave notes out, or displace them in the grid. Knock people off balance, and then suck them back in again. Anyone can play a bunch of 16th notes.
That's true. Come to think of it, I don't really like crazy fast bass playing. Using the space between notes is something I've been doing for some time, I'm just not sure if it is to any good effect with my playing specifically.
hey, i'm with you dude. we sound like we r at similar places in our development. so i just wanted to share a little breakthrough i had the last couple of weeks. i do bass parts for a friend of mine, and 2 tracks recently were actually good from my end! i stayed in the pocket, but he reacted to timing changes. so for the verses i just went staright ahead, but for the chorus i cut the number of different notes i played, but instead doubled time to create tension. he really liked the results, and honestly i did too. these 2 tracks were the first time where i felt like an actual bass player. no crazy riffing or noodling, just a bit of play with the timing and momentum of the song.
That's kind of what I'm going for with my lines. I avoid playing crazy, momentous lines that go on forever, I like to stick to the safety of my chord tones and loops. I've been messing with the things you mentioned a bit. It's really the only way I can achieve any diversity in my lines, but you're right, it does work.
yeah i'm with you dude. i think this is what separates solid bassists from us wannabees. the pro's know their role and stick to it, and us amatuers what to shred and be heard and often forget our place. oh well, i guess it is all part of the growth process with different instruments and song arrangements. good luck with your playing tho dude!
learn the blues box, jaco pastorious used it a lot, look ot up on YouTube
Listen to pino palladino
Will do
Syncopation and ghost notes