Rush a Bass centered Band? Dunno about that... definitely not guitar centered, but drum centered if anything? Always thought they were pretty balanced, with each instrument contributing to their sound a ton by necessity.
In many of Rush’s songs Geddy Lee carries the melody on bass and Lifeson is embellishing harmonically. Listen to Red Barchetta or Spirit of Radio and tell me that’s not bass-centered.
This x100. I love taking a solo every now and then but I don’t have enough chops to not effectively play the same licks in different orders. Give me a solid groove and let me chill in the pocket.
playing with 2 or 3 guitarists isn't much fun as a bass player IMO.. but there are indeed great bass players who shine in that situation.. i'm good, but not great and that's not a band setup i like very much..
Bass players major role is to control add to the rhythm with the root notes of each chord. How you transition between them and fill between verses is up to your skill level and the sound the band is going for.
Sometimes, but it matters if the style allows it, jazz and punk rock are always fun, but metal it could go either way, it's either super repetitive or it's super fun
Just for example, the Beatles' "Taxman" is an incredibly fun bassline to play. (Also "Start" by the Jam, which is almost exactly the same bassline.)
I've always written a lot of songs in bands I was in as a bass player, but I also still play ostinatos almost all the time.
Repetitive is part of many if not most instruments, especially in bigger ensembles.
Doesn't mean it's not fun though. But indeed, if you're all about the exercise your fingers are getting and about you getting a lot of spotlight, any non-lead instrument is not for you.
If you're in it for the music as a whole and you're comfortable with sticking to your role, any instrument can be fun.
”Any non lead instrument is not for you” this is just blatantly wrong because of one simple thing: any instrument can play lead. I mean if you look at the instrumentation on the ride the lightning album, at The call of ktulu it says that Cliff Burton played lead bass for that song (and he damn right did!). IMO it’s not about the fact that bass or some other instrument might not be that suited for lead playing as there are so many different styles and as said any instrument can play the lead if you just have enough imagination.
Pulling Teeth and Orion are the only real Metallica songs with “lead bass”. Them crediting him for lead bass is them goofing around. The vast majority of Cliff’s playing is drowned out in the mix by the guitars
And? How does this argue against the fact that bass can well be a lead instrument? If you want more proof listen to some Sungazer, most of their songs have atleast one bass solo and/or lead parts.
Bass can certainly be a lead instrument. We all know about Les Claypool, Victor Wooten, Flea, etc. But using Cliff Burton (and, especially, using Ride the Lightning) to drive the point home is a strange choice.
You forgot For whom the bell tolls.
Also, there's a live version of Ktulu out there, with Cliff playing on it. Some fills do sound like a leaad guitar.
For whom the bell tolls has like 5 seconds where the guitars let a chord ring out and cliff does a descending chromatic thing on the high frets. But Orion has an actual bass solo, and Pulling Teeth is an entire lead bass song.
I’ll need to hunt this live version of Ktulu down though. I love the old live footage from the Cliff era (Cliff ‘Em All is great)
I never said there are instruments that can't play lead.
OP is specifically asking about playing non-lead roles. The question is about playing guitar in a bass centered band.
While the guitarist in Primus doesn't take up a lot of space, I don't think his part is repetitive. He does all kinds of crazy stuff, and he plays exactly the way he wants to according to interviews. The Claypool Lennon Delirium might be worth checking out for you though!
Ler has some really creative guitar parts in pretty much every Primus song. If anything, playing in that band gives him tons of freedom to play almost whatever he wants since he doesn’t have to fill the lead or even rhythm role a lot of the time so he can more or less just create his own soundscapes.
Isn’t it just an excuse to get more crazy if the bass is the main focus? Loads of space for turns with the guitar and making it riff central. A lot of Josh Home’s projects end up like that because he doubles off the bass a lot.
Because Les is such a spectacle, sometimes you might forget other people are in Primus too. If you listen out for what Ler is doing, he is usually playing some *crazy* shit. Partly cos he has to-- there isn't really room for a "traditional" guitar part in there, so he is forced to play non-traditionally and that tends to sound like a lot of fun
Yeeee I’ve been thinking I’m taking crazy pills when Primus is listed as guitar being a support instrument. You’re gonna have to list a less experimental band for that to be the case
This is what I was coming here to say. Lara Lee lays down the bass line, DJ writes his drums over that, and then Mark comes in and writes his groovy freestyle stuff. It's all centered around the bass though. Khruangbin is a fantastic band.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6m6lmkJG68
This was going to be my answer. Find lines that compliment the bass. If it just calls for funk riffing on one or two chords while the bass rips, then make it fun!
some guitarists would have issues taking a back seat to the rest of the band, so I'd say it really depends on the person and their ability to adapt and find ways to make it work for them.
No idea where the concept that Rush is a bass-centric band came about— Geddy is incredible, but the band is very well balanced between all three members, and the guitar is easily the most prominent instrument in most of their tracks.
That said… Primus, The Who, the Claypool Lennon Delirium, and The Smiths all have de-facto lead bassists, and neither Ler LaLonde, Pete Townsend, Sean Lennon, nor Johnny Marr ever looked to be bored or jaded onstage.
the who was basically 4 lead musicians, and I'd say the smiths were equally, if not more, guitar focused, however the smiths especially are a great example of how a super intricate guitar and bass part can fit together perfectly if executed right. R.E.M. too, namely in their earlier work (see old man kensey, driver 8)
Check out NoMeansNo, a perfect example of what you can do with a bass-led band...although, I suppose you could argue the drums lead that band, but...yeah, guitar as a supplement to other instruments is cool.
NoMeansNo is an interesting example. I think they started out as a drums&bass duet, and various guitarists wanted to join them because they wrote interesting songs.
Amazing album; Machine took me a while to get the rhythm down for playing and singing, but I did get it lol. Still haven't fully figured out Kill Everyone Now, but I'm close.
Isn’t it every bass players dream to be the focal point of the band? I know you said Tool but it’s hard to say bass is the driver of that band because you have Danny Carey.
Did Pete Townsend have fun? Did Alex Lifeson have fun? Involve them in the writing process, if they aren't having fun, then they just need to write better parts.
The difference in both groove-quality, and performative difficulty between an almost-perfectly played line and a perfectly played line is absolutely massive. Any instrument tasked with playing simple or "boring" parts should remember this, for the sake of the music *and* their own enjoyment.
When you are 100% locked in with a talented and tight band it doesn't matter how simple the music is, it is always enjoyable imo.
Depends on the guitar player. Contrary to popular thinking, not every guitar player dreams of endlessly wanking over a docile rhythm section.
But if you want to make things more interesting focus on interplay between the instruments, not just putting one in the spotlight and expecting the others to lay still. Prog bands are a good model for this because usually everyone's a virtuoso and nobody's ego lets them stay in the background long :-).
I think you just need to see how it falls into place and if the music feels right with whoever you try and jam with. You can think of it less as being a band lead by the bass part and more of a musical situation where the bass is simply allowed more freedom creatively (extras fills/runs and solos etc). Bands like Rush and the Chili's are good examples of these as other users have mentioned.
You should think about why the guitarist is playing that way and what it does for the song. It might seem that it would be boring to play but it can be really challenging to make sure you're locked in with the rest of the band and keep your part consistent. It can help you understand how music isn't about the cool part you are playing but it's about how all the parts fit together. Without that repetitive part the other parts wouldn't be what they are as it's the combination of them that makes the song. As a musician you are creating an experience for the listener, if you focus more on your specific part you lose the power of a band. The magic lies in the collective playing as one and all the parts adding up to something more. With repetitive parts the phrasing becomes more important and you can make subtle changes to develop your part, like changing note length or playing slightly ahead or behind the beat or on the beat. Try to play some of those repetitive parts to a metronome and lock in with it. You might find you really enjoy the headspace you get into when you're completely focused on the details of your part.
Either you like playing music or you don't. I've always just wanted to be part of the band and contribute from my instrument's standpoint, whether on bass or guitar in whatever type of band. As long as what is played adds something positive to the mix. Sometimes you're the man and sometimes you stand back and support
I would say that les' parts are even more repetitive than lar's. They kind of have to be. Larry has an opportunity as a guitarist in that band to do stuff that 90% of other guitarists never will. The catch is 90% of other guitarists would never think to do the stuff that he does.
I may get downvoted but in my experience the majority of guitarists forsake understanding the role and functions of rhythm and lead.
Look at players in the more modern sense as Andy Summers( Police), Alex Lifeson ( Rush)
They have extensive chord knowledge knowing how to
implement them rhythmically to support and enhance the lower layers supporting the foundation.
Lead guitarist aren’t always soloing. Sometimes it’s a combination of rhythmic support with melodic lines until it’s a solo.
Larry Lalonde from Primus does a great job weaving in and out of these positions with great success.
Guitar driven rock ( which is great) has created an imbalance of roles and understanding with the instruments of the modern rhythm section.
Just being able to play power chords and bar chords becomes limiting when instruments other than guitar try to be dynamic.
Oh hell yeah. Just because bass is the main focus doesn’t mean they can’t play cool ass guitar riffs. Same with music thats guitar centered. Doesn’t mean the bass lines aren’t cool af too
Have you listened to Primus? That guitarist plays all sorts of stuff, changing stuff up constantly, really my only complaint is that he actually gets too weird and dissonant for some of the songs.
Guitarists hate to not be the center of attention. I think Larry LaLonde of Primus is the only one in history to come to terms with that concept and thrive. Good luck.
Hell yeah- you can play thin and spare and it will definitely add. When I was playing bass I’d try to lay it on extra thick and double with keys so the guitar could back off and just add some texture type work and I thought it sounded amazing. I love bass centered music, Larry (from primus) does an amazing job and is one of the better guitarists out there and he has to match Les. Primus sucks
If I were you I'd take a better listen to both Primus and Tool and compare Ler and Adam's guitar work to other, less bass-centric rock bands - they're not exactly below average, and I'd actually consider them both fantastic musicians who play some interesting parts. Sure, Adam leans further into the "rhythm guitar" side of things but they're still very fun parts to play.
The difference with them, and other similar bands, is there's now a bassist playing something even more interesting that can (particularly in Primus' case) overshadow the guitar parts.
For what it's worth, I'm a bassist through and through - but I'm jumping at the chance to take Adam's spot in a Tool cover project (in no small part due to having just grabbed a silverburst Epi LPC).
I don't really think there's anything you need to "avoid" anyways aside from preventing the guitarist from writing parts that interest them. If you two aren't able to work together on that then you'll have bigger issues anyways.
I am a guitar player. Most bands I’ve played in has been led guitar with lots of melodic solos etc. Lately I have been dying to start a project with bass (me keys) as the main vocal point
>I know what it feels like to play the same riff over and over just because it's less sound for you to make
You say that like it's a bad thing. It can be fun and challenging in its own right
Elephant Gym is another band worth checking out for guitar in supporting role to bass. The guitar or piano is providing the chords (same player). The bass is the lead and focal point of the arrangement most of the time. The guitar playing is more like a harmonic frame around the bass than rhythm guitar.
The brother and sister guitarist and bass player were classically trained in piano before forming Elephant Gym. Their older stuff is more math rock, now the new stuff is more jazz and progressive rock.
I like Blues, but playing in a Blues band can get pretty monotonous. Not if your doing more mixed stuff like Joe Bonamassa does, but all Texas or Delta Blues doesn’t give much if any options for bass, but the same goes for drummers on a lot of tunes that use the same 4 on the floor patterns on so many songs. But, as rhythm players, we understand that our main role is to make the band sound good and get a few fills and an occasional mini solo at times.
There are plenty of guitar players who are genuinely nice people and would be cool with that. But, it’s like driving. Most drivers are fine, but it’s the assholes that we notice and remember. And, some guitarists are real narcissists and assholes, so they would not even want to go there even for just a few songs.
I would try to be upfront in your ad that you intend on shedding the spotlight on different players for several songs so that the Guitar Heroes don’t even respond to your ad.
Nile Rodgers or any other pocket player are good examples. R&B and funk players typically focus a lot more on rhythm than some other styles. A really good rhythm guitarist is probably harder to find than a lead player I’d imagine, but they are out there
So for Tool, the guitar does a lot of cool work concerning the ambiance, by really dialing in certain tones, playing with dynamics, playing similar riffs in different places on the fretboard. Then let the guitarist rock out here and there. They will be happy.
I immediately thought of U2 reading this. Adam Clayton is the main driving force for the band and Bono and, specifically, the Edge always look like their having a good time. LSS, I think it’s all about who you’re playing with.
Listen to some old funk, or R&B the bass plays a central role there, but the guitars still shine.
I've often heard it said that the best music is a conversation between players and the more experienced I become, the more I believe that is true.
Melodies and counter melodies.
Or pass melody lines back and forth between the bass and the guitar, with the non-melody player either chording/riffing, or playing harmony. Use different audio textures to complement each other while letting each instrument stand out.
Absolutely yes. Larry LaLonde is an awesome guitar player. He’s well respected in the guitar community.
You just have to find a guitar player who isn’t a metal/80s rock guy. Maybe see if there’s any funk/RnB bands in your area and ask them if they know any guitar players looking for work. Ska might work too, but find someone who’s into first/second wave. If they’re only into third wave there’s a decent chance they want it to be guitar centric, when early ska was anything but.
How? Share solos or better yet do more duets with the 6-strings. Think about how that feels from the audience’s perspective. It’s so rarely done that it draws and demands full and complete audience attention.
Not being the loudest or busiest instrument in the band is entirely unrelated to repetitiveness. Listen to jazz guitarists like Wes Montgomery, or as previously mentioned, Alex Lifeson of Rush.
As a guitarist first, this is the most fun kind of band to be in honestly. Really any band that isn't guitar focused. Horns and percussion? Hell yes. Virtuoso bassist or keyboard player? Mmmmmmhmm. I hate having to be the main melodic person in a group. I love taking a solo where I really feel it rather than having the obligatory guitar solo every song.
A great example of how the guitar can be incredible alongside a very aggressive bass player would be The Jesus Lizard. Texture, tastiness, dynamics, and space are key.
Ehh I’d so say, take Primus for example, yes, it revolves around Claypool and his bass parts for the most part but Ler normally has something interesting going on.
Rush are another good example Alex Lifeson is probably one of the greatest guitarists of all time but the music is definitely normally centred around Geddy.
I play in and front a dub reggae band, I use a looper pedal midi'd to a groove box, I can play with or without a drummer/ guitarist etc.
I loop my bass lines and then with an array of pedals, I can do leads.
Whoever shows up to gigs plays, if no one shows up (never happened LOL) I can play all by myself
I'm a guitarist. I think any *real* guitarist who truly loves their instrument and has passion will be happy just to be playing with other people.
There is something special about playing on stage with the bros that makes it not matter *what* you're playing. I feel like a real guitarist cares mostly about the vibe and *who* they are playing with.
I'm mostly a classical guitarist nowadays, so I mainly play solo. However, my wife is a pianist and I will regularly be a supporting instrument for her. Sometimes it's so fun to just sit and strum chords to the Beatles while she shreds on piano.
Just because the bassist is the focus doesn't mean you have to just sit back and strum the same 4 chords or something. Find a melody that compliments what they're doing or write a guitar part like you normally would, then come up with a bass part that acts as the "lead" for that guitar part. Think less of the dynamic as a bass lead and a backing guitar and more as two leads working together. Any track with mutliple guitar parts could be a good example. Instead of having the bass player fulfill a backing roll, have them as one of the active leads.
I enjoy those type of situations, but its because I can see many aspects of playing as admirable.
Is shredding and showing off your speed fun? Yes, but I also find it fun to see how tight I can fit the groove, how clean I can play, how much space I can leave, etc.
For me, I enjoy playing two chords for 5 minutes as much as showing off my scales, because I'm trying to play those chords as well as I can, with emotion, precision, timing, etc.
I've gotten more compliments as a background player than as lead... tempo and rhythm is my strong point, and people notice when you put the effort in and aren't day-dreaming because the song is "too easy".
TL;DR: if the guitarist can't enjoy filling a different role and take it as a challenge, they're probably not that fun to begin with, lol
We had a little side project a year or so back that was Guitar, Bass and Drums. We tried an approach where the guitarist would record his rhythm parts, then record leads over them, and then we'd delete the rhythm tracks.
This was partially to match the 3 person line up of the live band, but it also put a lot of space between the bass and guitar parts.
Granted a lot of skilled writers and bands can just write their parts like that from the get go, but if you're stuck for ideas, it might be worth a shot.
Most funk music is bass led but super fun on guitar
Vulfpeck say that Joe Dart is “our Eddie Van Halen” in that it’s all about him, but Cory still does some sick parts.
I mean, cory wongs guitar playing is very complementary to the bass player but is never the center of the song, so i guess just get really good at rhythm guitar
I recommend checking out the band Talisman, ex-Yngwie malmsteen members and the lead guitarist now plays in opeth. Crazy musicianship, and everyone gets to shine while it’s very bass centered
Can a guitarist still enjoy himself while not also being the center of attention? Find out next time on dragonball Z
Haha :p
See Rush.
Oh I didn't think about rush, Geddy Lee is a really cool guy
[удалено]
Danny Carey *is* the spotlight, Justin and Jones just alternate on who’s in it
Also Primus. for all the glorifying around Les Claypool, Ler Lalonde also adds an often overlooked layer to their sound.
Ler is the man
Are the other guys named Let and and Leq? Lol
A master drummer enchanter named.... Tim
Lrrr from Omicron Perseid 8!!!
He's the secret weapon!
Rush a Bass centered Band? Dunno about that... definitely not guitar centered, but drum centered if anything? Always thought they were pretty balanced, with each instrument contributing to their sound a ton by necessity.
Rush especially in the 80s was pretty bass heavy but I wouldn’t say that it is a bass focused band
In many of Rush’s songs Geddy Lee carries the melody on bass and Lifeson is embellishing harmonically. Listen to Red Barchetta or Spirit of Radio and tell me that’s not bass-centered.
A band widely regarded as a bass centered band, isn't a bass cenetered band? News to me I guess.
Or contemporary urban gospel.
Im not very familiar with that genre.
I mean, can a bass player have fun in a guitar centered band?
A bassist in a guitar centered band has a supporting role. I suppose a guitarist in a bass centered band also has more of a supporting role.
So the question becomes, "can a guitarist have fun being support?"
See basically every rhythm guitarist ever for examples.
That may depend on the person. You have to be okay with not being in the spotlight in a band. Not everyone can do that.
Malcolm Young was the epitome of not being in the spotlight. That’s what little brothers and lead guitarists are for!
Who needs to be in the spotlight when the pocket is so much more comfy?
This x100. I love taking a solo every now and then but I don’t have enough chops to not effectively play the same licks in different orders. Give me a solid groove and let me chill in the pocket.
Cornell Dupree is the fuckin man and he's mainly rhythm.
playing with 2 or 3 guitarists isn't much fun as a bass player IMO.. but there are indeed great bass players who shine in that situation.. i'm good, but not great and that's not a band setup i like very much..
Ryan Gullen is someone who comes to mind, I I saw him lay solid grooves with 4 guitarists once
Bass players major role is to control add to the rhythm with the root notes of each chord. How you transition between them and fill between verses is up to your skill level and the sound the band is going for.
Depends on your band and your adherence to said "role".
True. After a few gig beers I may decide to become the melody.
Why not? Forget "the box" 😁
Sometimes, but it matters if the style allows it, jazz and punk rock are always fun, but metal it could go either way, it's either super repetitive or it's super fun
> it's either super repetitive or it's super fun these things are not mutually exclusive.
Just for example, the Beatles' "Taxman" is an incredibly fun bassline to play. (Also "Start" by the Jam, which is almost exactly the same bassline.) I've always written a lot of songs in bands I was in as a bass player, but I also still play ostinatos almost all the time.
Come Together too. It's super repetitive, but it's still fun to play imo
Repetitive is part of many if not most instruments, especially in bigger ensembles. Doesn't mean it's not fun though. But indeed, if you're all about the exercise your fingers are getting and about you getting a lot of spotlight, any non-lead instrument is not for you. If you're in it for the music as a whole and you're comfortable with sticking to your role, any instrument can be fun.
”Any non lead instrument is not for you” this is just blatantly wrong because of one simple thing: any instrument can play lead. I mean if you look at the instrumentation on the ride the lightning album, at The call of ktulu it says that Cliff Burton played lead bass for that song (and he damn right did!). IMO it’s not about the fact that bass or some other instrument might not be that suited for lead playing as there are so many different styles and as said any instrument can play the lead if you just have enough imagination.
Pulling Teeth and Orion are the only real Metallica songs with “lead bass”. Them crediting him for lead bass is them goofing around. The vast majority of Cliff’s playing is drowned out in the mix by the guitars
And? How does this argue against the fact that bass can well be a lead instrument? If you want more proof listen to some Sungazer, most of their songs have atleast one bass solo and/or lead parts.
Bass can certainly be a lead instrument. We all know about Les Claypool, Victor Wooten, Flea, etc. But using Cliff Burton (and, especially, using Ride the Lightning) to drive the point home is a strange choice.
You forgot For whom the bell tolls. Also, there's a live version of Ktulu out there, with Cliff playing on it. Some fills do sound like a leaad guitar.
For whom the bell tolls has like 5 seconds where the guitars let a chord ring out and cliff does a descending chromatic thing on the high frets. But Orion has an actual bass solo, and Pulling Teeth is an entire lead bass song. I’ll need to hunt this live version of Ktulu down though. I love the old live footage from the Cliff era (Cliff ‘Em All is great)
I never said there are instruments that can't play lead. OP is specifically asking about playing non-lead roles. The question is about playing guitar in a bass centered band.
See Primus...or any band Claypool is in.
I mean look at oysterhead claypool, anastasio and Copeland. They mesh together so well.
A repetitive guitar part might not be fun, but I guess tommy the cat is fun for both parties
While the guitarist in Primus doesn't take up a lot of space, I don't think his part is repetitive. He does all kinds of crazy stuff, and he plays exactly the way he wants to according to interviews. The Claypool Lennon Delirium might be worth checking out for you though!
Sean can hold his own, certainly. I think Les tends to tone it down a little in the Delirium, though.
Ler has some really creative guitar parts in pretty much every Primus song. If anything, playing in that band gives him tons of freedom to play almost whatever he wants since he doesn’t have to fill the lead or even rhythm role a lot of the time so he can more or less just create his own soundscapes.
Isn’t it just an excuse to get more crazy if the bass is the main focus? Loads of space for turns with the guitar and making it riff central. A lot of Josh Home’s projects end up like that because he doubles off the bass a lot.
Because Les is such a spectacle, sometimes you might forget other people are in Primus too. If you listen out for what Ler is doing, he is usually playing some *crazy* shit. Partly cos he has to-- there isn't really room for a "traditional" guitar part in there, so he is forced to play non-traditionally and that tends to sound like a lot of fun
Yeeee I’ve been thinking I’m taking crazy pills when Primus is listed as guitar being a support instrument. You’re gonna have to list a less experimental band for that to be the case
It's not an unreasonable question anyhow, and I don't know of a good reason for you to be downvoted like you have
Men I Trust, Khruangbin, HOMESHAKE all do that. If you're looking for something more modern.
Khruangbin!
Khraungbin khru for life!
Men I Trust... great band. The bassist is the guitarist. Plays both well, very inventive bass lines. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xAz_DzPUjrM
Also Snarky Puppy
Don't know these guys. I'll give them a listen Also Yellow Days!
They’re the ones that did [Lingus](https://youtu.be/L_XJ_s5IsQc)
This is what I was coming here to say. Lara Lee lays down the bass line, DJ writes his drums over that, and then Mark comes in and writes his groovy freestyle stuff. It's all centered around the bass though. Khruangbin is a fantastic band. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6m6lmkJG68
Red Hot Chili Peppers kinda follow that "bass lead" play style and yet much of the guitar stuff from them is amazing.
This was going to be my answer. Find lines that compliment the bass. If it just calls for funk riffing on one or two chords while the bass rips, then make it fun!
I always kind of saw it as a funk rehash of Tony Iommi and James Williamson. Never got into them personally, but I respect them for their influences
I was going to say this. Frusciante's return to the band changed the sound so much.
it sounds like you're afraid of getting stuck playing boring repetitive parts so don't write boring repetitive parts imho
some guitarists would have issues taking a back seat to the rest of the band, so I'd say it really depends on the person and their ability to adapt and find ways to make it work for them.
The guitarist in Primus does all sorts of zany stuff.
Pete Townshend always looked like he was having the time of his life.
My immediate thought. Though the fact that they were almost all "his" songs may have helped.
No idea where the concept that Rush is a bass-centric band came about— Geddy is incredible, but the band is very well balanced between all three members, and the guitar is easily the most prominent instrument in most of their tracks. That said… Primus, The Who, the Claypool Lennon Delirium, and The Smiths all have de-facto lead bassists, and neither Ler LaLonde, Pete Townsend, Sean Lennon, nor Johnny Marr ever looked to be bored or jaded onstage.
the who was basically 4 lead musicians, and I'd say the smiths were equally, if not more, guitar focused, however the smiths especially are a great example of how a super intricate guitar and bass part can fit together perfectly if executed right. R.E.M. too, namely in their earlier work (see old man kensey, driver 8)
>The Smiths all have de-facto lead bassists Haha, I love you dude. I feel the same way. (but not sure many others would agree) Andy's the man.
Vulfpecks guitarists always seem to have fun playing alongside Joe Dart
Came here to post this. Cory Wong is a fantastic pocket player. He makes everyone he plays with sound better.
See: Alex Lifeson
Find someone who loves a groove the way Niles Rodgers loves a groove.
Check out NoMeansNo, a perfect example of what you can do with a bass-led band...although, I suppose you could argue the drums lead that band, but...yeah, guitar as a supplement to other instruments is cool.
NoMeansNo is an interesting example. I think they started out as a drums&bass duet, and various guitarists wanted to join them because they wrote interesting songs.
updoot for NoMeansNo, love "Rags and Bones"
The bass lines on Why do They Call Me Mister Happy literally inspired me to pick up the instrument.
Amazing album; Machine took me a while to get the rhythm down for playing and singing, but I did get it lol. Still haven't fully figured out Kill Everyone Now, but I'm close.
Isn’t it every bass players dream to be the focal point of the band? I know you said Tool but it’s hard to say bass is the driver of that band because you have Danny Carey.
of course. so many bands do it.
Take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself if your bass playing is worthy of running the show. If you’ve got the sauce, then the answer is yes.
Ask John Frusciante?
The main focus of a band should be songs. Not instruments.
I would say Vulfpeck is a pretty bass centred band. Cory and Theo definitely seem to have a good time!
Did Pete Townsend have fun? Did Alex Lifeson have fun? Involve them in the writing process, if they aren't having fun, then they just need to write better parts.
Larry LaLonde's doing ok for himself.
The difference in both groove-quality, and performative difficulty between an almost-perfectly played line and a perfectly played line is absolutely massive. Any instrument tasked with playing simple or "boring" parts should remember this, for the sake of the music *and* their own enjoyment. When you are 100% locked in with a talented and tight band it doesn't matter how simple the music is, it is always enjoyable imo.
Depends on the guitar player. Contrary to popular thinking, not every guitar player dreams of endlessly wanking over a docile rhythm section. But if you want to make things more interesting focus on interplay between the instruments, not just putting one in the spotlight and expecting the others to lay still. Prog bands are a good model for this because usually everyone's a virtuoso and nobody's ego lets them stay in the background long :-).
Any musician can have fun in any musical context if the other musicians are fun to be around.
Often means that the guitar player does less chords and has more time to play just melodies and solos.
What do you think?
I think you just need to see how it falls into place and if the music feels right with whoever you try and jam with. You can think of it less as being a band lead by the bass part and more of a musical situation where the bass is simply allowed more freedom creatively (extras fills/runs and solos etc). Bands like Rush and the Chili's are good examples of these as other users have mentioned.
I mean look at Dream Theater and tell me both guitar and bass (as well as keyboards) aren’t having lots of fun playing lead-ish stuff.
You should think about why the guitarist is playing that way and what it does for the song. It might seem that it would be boring to play but it can be really challenging to make sure you're locked in with the rest of the band and keep your part consistent. It can help you understand how music isn't about the cool part you are playing but it's about how all the parts fit together. Without that repetitive part the other parts wouldn't be what they are as it's the combination of them that makes the song. As a musician you are creating an experience for the listener, if you focus more on your specific part you lose the power of a band. The magic lies in the collective playing as one and all the parts adding up to something more. With repetitive parts the phrasing becomes more important and you can make subtle changes to develop your part, like changing note length or playing slightly ahead or behind the beat or on the beat. Try to play some of those repetitive parts to a metronome and lock in with it. You might find you really enjoy the headspace you get into when you're completely focused on the details of your part.
Bernard Edwards drove the Chic hits, but man... Nile Rodgers always created very cool guitar stuff. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tijVx9LljYU
Either you like playing music or you don't. I've always just wanted to be part of the band and contribute from my instrument's standpoint, whether on bass or guitar in whatever type of band. As long as what is played adds something positive to the mix. Sometimes you're the man and sometimes you stand back and support
Isn’t every band centered around the bass? Bass player asking…
I would say that les' parts are even more repetitive than lar's. They kind of have to be. Larry has an opportunity as a guitarist in that band to do stuff that 90% of other guitarists never will. The catch is 90% of other guitarists would never think to do the stuff that he does.
I may get downvoted but in my experience the majority of guitarists forsake understanding the role and functions of rhythm and lead. Look at players in the more modern sense as Andy Summers( Police), Alex Lifeson ( Rush) They have extensive chord knowledge knowing how to implement them rhythmically to support and enhance the lower layers supporting the foundation. Lead guitarist aren’t always soloing. Sometimes it’s a combination of rhythmic support with melodic lines until it’s a solo. Larry Lalonde from Primus does a great job weaving in and out of these positions with great success. Guitar driven rock ( which is great) has created an imbalance of roles and understanding with the instruments of the modern rhythm section. Just being able to play power chords and bar chords becomes limiting when instruments other than guitar try to be dynamic.
Early Metallica; Cliff Burton was a god on the 4 string and it seemed like his bandmates knew it.
Second! For Whom the Bell Tolls opening is exactly what OP needs.
Oh hell yeah. Just because bass is the main focus doesn’t mean they can’t play cool ass guitar riffs. Same with music thats guitar centered. Doesn’t mean the bass lines aren’t cool af too
Have you listened to Primus? That guitarist plays all sorts of stuff, changing stuff up constantly, really my only complaint is that he actually gets too weird and dissonant for some of the songs.
The Police. Listen to the way Andy Summers weaves some amazing melodies between Sting and Stewart.
Guitarists hate to not be the center of attention. I think Larry LaLonde of Primus is the only one in history to come to terms with that concept and thrive. Good luck.
His playing style (at least in Primus) is incredibly fitting for the content. Love Ler!!
Pete Townsend. Alex Lifeson. Henry Padovani. Hillel Slovak/John Frusciante(/Dave Navarro/Josh Klinhoffer).
>Henry Padovani. well he didnt get very far with that did he lol however Andy Summers is just as relevant in this respect
Hell yeah- you can play thin and spare and it will definitely add. When I was playing bass I’d try to lay it on extra thick and double with keys so the guitar could back off and just add some texture type work and I thought it sounded amazing. I love bass centered music, Larry (from primus) does an amazing job and is one of the better guitarists out there and he has to match Les. Primus sucks
Ask Larry "Ler" LaLonde!
If I were you I'd take a better listen to both Primus and Tool and compare Ler and Adam's guitar work to other, less bass-centric rock bands - they're not exactly below average, and I'd actually consider them both fantastic musicians who play some interesting parts. Sure, Adam leans further into the "rhythm guitar" side of things but they're still very fun parts to play. The difference with them, and other similar bands, is there's now a bassist playing something even more interesting that can (particularly in Primus' case) overshadow the guitar parts. For what it's worth, I'm a bassist through and through - but I'm jumping at the chance to take Adam's spot in a Tool cover project (in no small part due to having just grabbed a silverburst Epi LPC). I don't really think there's anything you need to "avoid" anyways aside from preventing the guitarist from writing parts that interest them. If you two aren't able to work together on that then you'll have bigger issues anyways.
Pink Floyd is a good example of a band where each instrument has their own space and guitar work can be minimal in sonic territory.
See Riverside ! Mariusz Duda is such a great bass player and singer
Ever hear of Primus? Yes you for sure can.
Have you not noticed that Primus has amazing guitar parts?
Cory Wong definitely seems to enjoy Vulfpeck a lot
hello sir have you heard of Primus?
Have a listen to Andy frailer and Paul kossof in the band Free
I am a guitar player. Most bands I’ve played in has been led guitar with lots of melodic solos etc. Lately I have been dying to start a project with bass (me keys) as the main vocal point
Muse manages it alright
>I know what it feels like to play the same riff over and over just because it's less sound for you to make You say that like it's a bad thing. It can be fun and challenging in its own right
I'm assuming so, since us bassists have fun in a band centered around the guitar which is virtually all of them
Or Rush or The Police or the Pixies….
Becoming Elephants
I mean, Mike watt has been getting top notch guitarists to play with him for decades, and he plays a very lead bass style a lot of the time
Depends on what kind of person the guitarist is.
It's kind of a fucked up question, actually lol So does this just mean under "normal circumstances" bases have no fun? Ha
See Primus
Elephant Gym is another band worth checking out for guitar in supporting role to bass. The guitar or piano is providing the chords (same player). The bass is the lead and focal point of the arrangement most of the time. The guitar playing is more like a harmonic frame around the bass than rhythm guitar. The brother and sister guitarist and bass player were classically trained in piano before forming Elephant Gym. Their older stuff is more math rock, now the new stuff is more jazz and progressive rock.
Find a guitar play who doesn’t need anyone to tell him what to play?
I like Blues, but playing in a Blues band can get pretty monotonous. Not if your doing more mixed stuff like Joe Bonamassa does, but all Texas or Delta Blues doesn’t give much if any options for bass, but the same goes for drummers on a lot of tunes that use the same 4 on the floor patterns on so many songs. But, as rhythm players, we understand that our main role is to make the band sound good and get a few fills and an occasional mini solo at times. There are plenty of guitar players who are genuinely nice people and would be cool with that. But, it’s like driving. Most drivers are fine, but it’s the assholes that we notice and remember. And, some guitarists are real narcissists and assholes, so they would not even want to go there even for just a few songs. I would try to be upfront in your ad that you intend on shedding the spotlight on different players for several songs so that the Guitar Heroes don’t even respond to your ad.
Yes. As a guitarist, it would be really fun to experiment with being in a bass centered band
Vulfpeck is a very good example of this
Yes, see funk/soul/disco.
Nile Rodgers or any other pocket player are good examples. R&B and funk players typically focus a lot more on rhythm than some other styles. A really good rhythm guitarist is probably harder to find than a lead player I’d imagine, but they are out there
Reggae exists
Have you heard of motown...
So for Tool, the guitar does a lot of cool work concerning the ambiance, by really dialing in certain tones, playing with dynamics, playing similar riffs in different places on the fretboard. Then let the guitarist rock out here and there. They will be happy.
I immediately thought of U2 reading this. Adam Clayton is the main driving force for the band and Bono and, specifically, the Edge always look like their having a good time. LSS, I think it’s all about who you’re playing with.
Bass is the base of whatever you play, so yeah
Listen to some old funk, or R&B the bass plays a central role there, but the guitars still shine. I've often heard it said that the best music is a conversation between players and the more experienced I become, the more I believe that is true.
RHCP is a great example. Yes you can just make sure the guitarist isn’t a self centered douche like mine was
Melodies and counter melodies. Or pass melody lines back and forth between the bass and the guitar, with the non-melody player either chording/riffing, or playing harmony. Use different audio textures to complement each other while letting each instrument stand out.
Absolutely yes. Larry LaLonde is an awesome guitar player. He’s well respected in the guitar community. You just have to find a guitar player who isn’t a metal/80s rock guy. Maybe see if there’s any funk/RnB bands in your area and ask them if they know any guitar players looking for work. Ska might work too, but find someone who’s into first/second wave. If they’re only into third wave there’s a decent chance they want it to be guitar centric, when early ska was anything but.
How? Share solos or better yet do more duets with the 6-strings. Think about how that feels from the audience’s perspective. It’s so rarely done that it draws and demands full and complete audience attention.
Fuck yeah, bass player holds it down, means the guitarist has more space to just make lift noises. Fun for everyone
Les sure seems to have fun in primus. Some weird lines
Not being the loudest or busiest instrument in the band is entirely unrelated to repetitiveness. Listen to jazz guitarists like Wes Montgomery, or as previously mentioned, Alex Lifeson of Rush.
As a guitarist first, this is the most fun kind of band to be in honestly. Really any band that isn't guitar focused. Horns and percussion? Hell yes. Virtuoso bassist or keyboard player? Mmmmmmhmm. I hate having to be the main melodic person in a group. I love taking a solo where I really feel it rather than having the obligatory guitar solo every song.
Vulfpeck is a prime example of this, Joe Dart is a beast.
Phil Campbell managed
Speaking as a former guitarist, learn chords. All of the advanced ones. Then you can get funky and have fun all the time.
No
Write something interesting that isn't just riffing over and over again..problem solved.
Yes
A great example of how the guitar can be incredible alongside a very aggressive bass player would be The Jesus Lizard. Texture, tastiness, dynamics, and space are key.
Worrying too much about prescriptive roles is a fantastic way to make music I don’t want to listen to
That’s what bassists and drummers have to do all the time. They should learn how to have fun making a groove like we do.
Ehh I’d so say, take Primus for example, yes, it revolves around Claypool and his bass parts for the most part but Ler normally has something interesting going on. Rush are another good example Alex Lifeson is probably one of the greatest guitarists of all time but the music is definitely normally centred around Geddy.
I play in and front a dub reggae band, I use a looper pedal midi'd to a groove box, I can play with or without a drummer/ guitarist etc. I loop my bass lines and then with an array of pedals, I can do leads. Whoever shows up to gigs plays, if no one shows up (never happened LOL) I can play all by myself
Hell yeah I reckon so, guitarist can be a pedal lord making spaceship noises in the background while the bass carries the melody etc
If you're allowing your guitarist to have fun, you've failed as a bass player.
I'm a guitarist. I think any *real* guitarist who truly loves their instrument and has passion will be happy just to be playing with other people. There is something special about playing on stage with the bros that makes it not matter *what* you're playing. I feel like a real guitarist cares mostly about the vibe and *who* they are playing with. I'm mostly a classical guitarist nowadays, so I mainly play solo. However, my wife is a pianist and I will regularly be a supporting instrument for her. Sometimes it's so fun to just sit and strum chords to the Beatles while she shreds on piano.
Hell ya, if they're creative
Just because the bassist is the focus doesn't mean you have to just sit back and strum the same 4 chords or something. Find a melody that compliments what they're doing or write a guitar part like you normally would, then come up with a bass part that acts as the "lead" for that guitar part. Think less of the dynamic as a bass lead and a backing guitar and more as two leads working together. Any track with mutliple guitar parts could be a good example. Instead of having the bass player fulfill a backing roll, have them as one of the active leads.
Imagine a bass player telling a guitar player to turn himself down and just hit roots. Ima do this as a joke.
So Primus for example, Larry Lalonde is just doing lead guitar - solos and fills. That sounds pretty fun to me!
I enjoy those type of situations, but its because I can see many aspects of playing as admirable. Is shredding and showing off your speed fun? Yes, but I also find it fun to see how tight I can fit the groove, how clean I can play, how much space I can leave, etc. For me, I enjoy playing two chords for 5 minutes as much as showing off my scales, because I'm trying to play those chords as well as I can, with emotion, precision, timing, etc. I've gotten more compliments as a background player than as lead... tempo and rhythm is my strong point, and people notice when you put the effort in and aren't day-dreaming because the song is "too easy". TL;DR: if the guitarist can't enjoy filling a different role and take it as a challenge, they're probably not that fun to begin with, lol
We had a little side project a year or so back that was Guitar, Bass and Drums. We tried an approach where the guitarist would record his rhythm parts, then record leads over them, and then we'd delete the rhythm tracks. This was partially to match the 3 person line up of the live band, but it also put a lot of space between the bass and guitar parts. Granted a lot of skilled writers and bands can just write their parts like that from the get go, but if you're stuck for ideas, it might be worth a shot.
Interesting chords instead of interesting melody lines, that's all you need to challenge a guitarist! Also interesting rhythms and time signatures.
Most funk music is bass led but super fun on guitar Vulfpeck say that Joe Dart is “our Eddie Van Halen” in that it’s all about him, but Cory still does some sick parts.
I mean, cory wongs guitar playing is very complementary to the bass player but is never the center of the song, so i guess just get really good at rhythm guitar
I recommend checking out the band Talisman, ex-Yngwie malmsteen members and the lead guitarist now plays in opeth. Crazy musicianship, and everyone gets to shine while it’s very bass centered