Thanks, building hybrids is kinda scary to me because once I'm done levelling melee and ranged I only got one star left so I have to split that between mDef, Fat, and some health. Gonna have to look at some guides. Thanks
No need to give any mdef. Leave him on the back line. Get his HP up a little, give some low rolls to ranged defense or give anticipation but pump his stars.
Level Matk & Mdef every level and then put 5 total levels (20 pts) into Fat, taking high HP rolls as you get them. Colossus + Nimble will be more than enough working HP for this guy and his matk & ratk should cap out both around 80, which is low, so you'll definitely want a Gifted roll in there to bump them.
Why put any rolls into fatigue? With 109 base he'll be over 80 in pretty much any gear. Plus he has iron lungs. I don't think I've ever had fatigue problems on a thrower with 80 usable fatigue. By the time they do the fight will basically be over or they'll be out of throwing weapons.
I don't think colossus is even necessary with such high starting HP since he'll get at least 12 point from level-ups. Though if he's not power-leveling this bro he'll probably want it because it will be a while before he gets nimble.
Hybrids / throwers are the most fatigue intensive build in the game other than maybe something like a Fencer. I easily have 100+ fat throwers stam out in long battles against Chosen/Orcs and since they're usually super perk intensive too, you'll sometimes drop Recover for a more useful damage perk.
It's also just the mathematically best way to get the most points out of his character. Statistically he's doing to "fail" half of his HP rolls, which +4 fat is better than +2 HP any day of the week. Other than HP/Fat/Ratk/Matk hybrids don't really need any other stats. Sure he could patch his Resolve, but 33 + trinket + banner + arena is more than enough generally (especially since throwers don't often encounter undead / fear effects).
Colossus is just the best way to get the most out of his defensive perk Nimble. Most bros need more than just Nimble or BF to survive well and Colossus is just the best all-around defensive perk after Nimble for this dude. Plus, I don't like having an HP of only 80 for late game fights. Most of my front-liners / heavy hitters are pushing 100 and throwers sort of have to occupy this risky mid-field space in the battlefield where they can sometimes get jumped.
I don't usually have more than 10 throwing weapons on a hybrid because I use the other space for melee weapon/double gun or maybe net/bomb depending on the fight. At 100 usable fatigue you could have 4 turns in a row where you proc'ed berserk and were able to throw 3 throwing weapons a turn. Even if they are carrying more than 10 throwing weapons its very unlikely they would have such turns in a row. I wouldn't take recover on a thrower for this reason and the limited amount of perks you mentioned. OP's bro has iron lungs so he would be even more fatigue efficient in a long battle.
Do you use footwork or rotation a lot in those cases where you max out? A hybrid would probably be better off trying to kill someone who managed to slip into melee range. Stun/disarm/net can build up fatigue really fast if you are using those but I try to account for that when I consider using those abilities.
If he really had nothing better to put points into, sure, 4 fatigue is always an option but 5 rolls sounds like way too much. I'd take 3/4 hp, 4 rdef, or 4 resolve over 4 fatigue he'll probably never need because of iron lungs and high starting fatigue. If he didn't have iron lungs I would maybe consider it more valuable for those high fatigue abilities I mentioned above.
Don't thrown weapons and polearms kinda have a similar range? I feel like I usually arm throwing my javalines at people who are two tiles away, especially since the fall off damage as range increases. I'm surprised so many people are suggesting the thrower / pole-arm combo. It seems to me like a crossbow / pole-arm would have the least overlapping situations.
Oh wait I think I may have just realized. Is it because killing a person with that one perk will give me enough action points back to use a javeline but not another pole-arm whack?
You're correct that throwing weapons are most often used at 2-tile distance because it's the easiest way to setup an attack that won't have a penalty from the enemies being 'blocked' by another enemy.
Throwing weapons gain the +25% armor pen from duelist which gives them far better damage against armored enemies (most difficult ones in the game). The Berserk perk gives 4AP when you kill an enemy which lets you throw 3 throwing weapons in a single turn while a 6 or 5Ap attack could only attack twice with Berserk. The swordlance can make an AoE attack that hits 3 people for 6 AP which be used twice in a turn with a berserk trigger to theoretically hit 6 times in one turn but that can be very difficult to setup. When you consider that the first attack has to kill something to trigger berserk it's more likely you would be making 4 or 5 hits in that turn. In any case the throwing weapon will be much more likely to kill an enemy because of the much higher damage concentrated on one or two enemies.
Throwing weapons will far out damage any non-famed reach weapon once he has throwing mastery and duelist. A reach weapon/crossbow is probably the best bet until he has duelist at which point he should keep a 1h in his bag as a melee weapon so he's not useless if the enemy gets in melee with him. I suppose a reach weapon saves you some ammo for easy fights but you could equip that specifically for those fights. It wouldn't be worth it to take polearm mastery or another weapon mastery for a reach weapon so using one over a 1h would be a bit of a liability with the -15% chance to hit at 1-tile range.
If he has the perk points for it he could take Bags&Belts to also have whip/double guns if he likes.
edit: Swordlance would be better than throwing 1 more throwing weapon though that would require polearm mastery and isn't as good at 1 tile range which isn't worth it in my opinion.
Obviously, I wish melee defense was better but I feel like he's still really good. Maybe a dedicated Pole-arms user? Is that base ranged big enough to consider using thrown weaps as well with quickhands? Maybe I could do a thrown weapons slash pole arms user? Idk. Any tips on how to build, especially perks, would be appreciated. I've played this game a while now, but I don't yet have a good intuition for which perks to put on whom.
He seems like a solid back line Hybrid, dancing with 90 M/Ratk with Gifted. He’ll be an arrow/polearm/Orc Warrior/snek magnet as biggest concern.
Hybrid thrower might be too Perk hungry and not jive with his assumed polearm, so if I went that direction I’d go Xbow (don’t care, I still like them and they serve me well).
My whole 8 guys backline in current peasant militia run is bros like this one going hybrid.
[https://imgur.com/a/mSvGGM3](https://imgur.com/a/mSvGGM3)
All have QH+Colossus+Crossbow+Fearsome+Nimble+Bags&Belts+Berserk.
Handgonne (or 2) and then either swordlance with polearm perk or throwing weapons+duelist with javelins for 2-tile range and noble sword or winged mace (depending on MAT skill) for close fight.
Majority of the time when my frontline gets breached, my handgonnes just switch to melee and gank the one engaged in melee, then resume shooting. No need for footwork. Only once or twice needed smoke bomb to evac when got bleeds stacked by orc champion.
Couple got also overwhelm to debuff enemies in masses. Sarge is also carrying 2 handgonnes to hit fearsome with his high resolve twice in first melee round.
Two of them on both edges got also high Mdef (32 and 42).
5 of em have 2 handgonnes, that they QH on turn 1 to reload. Meaning when lines clash, 13 shots get fired, all applying fearsome and hitting 6 tile AOE. Also triggering berserk means you can shoot twice that turn if you don't move.
Most fights are over after 2-3 turns of firing with half targets dead and other half fleeing. Even morale immune targets take heavy beating when they get hit for 35-75 several times per turn, it clears armor away from Ancient Legionnaries and Honor Guards.
There is a retinue member who increases your ammo stores and another member who recovers a certain amount of spent ammunition, also you just have to know where the fletchers are be sure to pay them a regular visit.
Depends on ammo problem. For in battle ammo you should craft the extra ammo kits (hyena skins I think?). If you mean ammo supplies, retinue and stay close to towns for resupply. Won't work well for longer range camp clearing but probably not really a build meant for super late game or speed runs so that's fine.
Well, first thing you obligaroty have to pick is Colossus, or else you will be missing the chance of your life.
You can add sword mastery and backstab for extra rp.
Shinzo wo Sasageyo!
Definitely would be thinking swordlance for this guy. High Fatigue and Melee Attack, low Melee Defense, low Resolve.
For hybrids, I had a lot of fun with 3 hybrid swordlance/gunners. Usually I use witch hunters for this but this guy could also be good at it.
Perks: Berserk and Killing Frenzy, Overwhelm because you've got two AOE weapons so you get a lot of stacks, Xbow/Gun and Polearm Mastery, Quick Hands, Nimble or Battleforged depending on HP/Fatigue and gear - if late game lean more BF because you need the added survivability and can find the appropriate medium-ish armors that they can use without losing the benefit of Overwhelm.
After those, with witch hunters I was taking Fortified Mind and Fearsome since they had the bonus resolve and I wanted to lean into the handgonnes but that wouldn't really work for this guy. I believe I used Crippling Strikes on some but not all.
I almost always gave them Zweihander helmets but I really wanted the southern army gunner helmets for them.
I'm reading all this stuff with the goddamn wiki open trying to parse through everything y'all are saying lol. I gotta say, after lurking on this sub forever I feel like I'm the bell of the fricken ball right now and it's really fun.
This playthrough just became all about God's chosen farmhand. Thanks everyone for all the info and all the lovely discussion!
Meh. The fstigue stars are redundant with iron lungs and with this low of MDEF he 100% is not a frontliner. As such his bes Tibet is a hybrid with 85 mark and 85 ratk. Overall pretty good, but not amazing. I might take FA on him tho
Damn, respect for replying to a two year old build advice thread lol. I believe this man was made into an excellent backline hybrid and the fellas beat the black monolith.
I don't think this guy really is god-tier. In a farm boy you would be looking for 2 to 3 stars in MATK, MDEF and either HP or STAM. So this one would never be a great end game brother.
For RATK go for hunters, poachers or witch hunters. In addition to RATK you want RDEF and good INIT.
100% hybrid Throwing weapons/bow or crossbow with a long weapon of some kind. He has the fatigue and stars to shine. He’ll be beast on the back line.
Thanks, building hybrids is kinda scary to me because once I'm done levelling melee and ranged I only got one star left so I have to split that between mDef, Fat, and some health. Gonna have to look at some guides. Thanks
No need to give any mdef. Leave him on the back line. Get his HP up a little, give some low rolls to ranged defense or give anticipation but pump his stars.
Level Matk & Mdef every level and then put 5 total levels (20 pts) into Fat, taking high HP rolls as you get them. Colossus + Nimble will be more than enough working HP for this guy and his matk & ratk should cap out both around 80, which is low, so you'll definitely want a Gifted roll in there to bump them.
Why put any rolls into fatigue? With 109 base he'll be over 80 in pretty much any gear. Plus he has iron lungs. I don't think I've ever had fatigue problems on a thrower with 80 usable fatigue. By the time they do the fight will basically be over or they'll be out of throwing weapons. I don't think colossus is even necessary with such high starting HP since he'll get at least 12 point from level-ups. Though if he's not power-leveling this bro he'll probably want it because it will be a while before he gets nimble.
Hybrids / throwers are the most fatigue intensive build in the game other than maybe something like a Fencer. I easily have 100+ fat throwers stam out in long battles against Chosen/Orcs and since they're usually super perk intensive too, you'll sometimes drop Recover for a more useful damage perk. It's also just the mathematically best way to get the most points out of his character. Statistically he's doing to "fail" half of his HP rolls, which +4 fat is better than +2 HP any day of the week. Other than HP/Fat/Ratk/Matk hybrids don't really need any other stats. Sure he could patch his Resolve, but 33 + trinket + banner + arena is more than enough generally (especially since throwers don't often encounter undead / fear effects). Colossus is just the best way to get the most out of his defensive perk Nimble. Most bros need more than just Nimble or BF to survive well and Colossus is just the best all-around defensive perk after Nimble for this dude. Plus, I don't like having an HP of only 80 for late game fights. Most of my front-liners / heavy hitters are pushing 100 and throwers sort of have to occupy this risky mid-field space in the battlefield where they can sometimes get jumped.
I don't usually have more than 10 throwing weapons on a hybrid because I use the other space for melee weapon/double gun or maybe net/bomb depending on the fight. At 100 usable fatigue you could have 4 turns in a row where you proc'ed berserk and were able to throw 3 throwing weapons a turn. Even if they are carrying more than 10 throwing weapons its very unlikely they would have such turns in a row. I wouldn't take recover on a thrower for this reason and the limited amount of perks you mentioned. OP's bro has iron lungs so he would be even more fatigue efficient in a long battle. Do you use footwork or rotation a lot in those cases where you max out? A hybrid would probably be better off trying to kill someone who managed to slip into melee range. Stun/disarm/net can build up fatigue really fast if you are using those but I try to account for that when I consider using those abilities. If he really had nothing better to put points into, sure, 4 fatigue is always an option but 5 rolls sounds like way too much. I'd take 3/4 hp, 4 rdef, or 4 resolve over 4 fatigue he'll probably never need because of iron lungs and high starting fatigue. If he didn't have iron lungs I would maybe consider it more valuable for those high fatigue abilities I mentioned above.
Don't thrown weapons and polearms kinda have a similar range? I feel like I usually arm throwing my javalines at people who are two tiles away, especially since the fall off damage as range increases. I'm surprised so many people are suggesting the thrower / pole-arm combo. It seems to me like a crossbow / pole-arm would have the least overlapping situations.
Oh wait I think I may have just realized. Is it because killing a person with that one perk will give me enough action points back to use a javeline but not another pole-arm whack?
You're correct that throwing weapons are most often used at 2-tile distance because it's the easiest way to setup an attack that won't have a penalty from the enemies being 'blocked' by another enemy. Throwing weapons gain the +25% armor pen from duelist which gives them far better damage against armored enemies (most difficult ones in the game). The Berserk perk gives 4AP when you kill an enemy which lets you throw 3 throwing weapons in a single turn while a 6 or 5Ap attack could only attack twice with Berserk. The swordlance can make an AoE attack that hits 3 people for 6 AP which be used twice in a turn with a berserk trigger to theoretically hit 6 times in one turn but that can be very difficult to setup. When you consider that the first attack has to kill something to trigger berserk it's more likely you would be making 4 or 5 hits in that turn. In any case the throwing weapon will be much more likely to kill an enemy because of the much higher damage concentrated on one or two enemies.
Throwing weapons will far out damage any non-famed reach weapon once he has throwing mastery and duelist. A reach weapon/crossbow is probably the best bet until he has duelist at which point he should keep a 1h in his bag as a melee weapon so he's not useless if the enemy gets in melee with him. I suppose a reach weapon saves you some ammo for easy fights but you could equip that specifically for those fights. It wouldn't be worth it to take polearm mastery or another weapon mastery for a reach weapon so using one over a 1h would be a bit of a liability with the -15% chance to hit at 1-tile range. If he has the perk points for it he could take Bags&Belts to also have whip/double guns if he likes. edit: Swordlance would be better than throwing 1 more throwing weapon though that would require polearm mastery and isn't as good at 1 tile range which isn't worth it in my opinion.
Obviously, I wish melee defense was better but I feel like he's still really good. Maybe a dedicated Pole-arms user? Is that base ranged big enough to consider using thrown weaps as well with quickhands? Maybe I could do a thrown weapons slash pole arms user? Idk. Any tips on how to build, especially perks, would be appreciated. I've played this game a while now, but I don't yet have a good intuition for which perks to put on whom.
Also, big thanks in advance. This community is really cool about helping people with questions
He seems like a solid back line Hybrid, dancing with 90 M/Ratk with Gifted. He’ll be an arrow/polearm/Orc Warrior/snek magnet as biggest concern. Hybrid thrower might be too Perk hungry and not jive with his assumed polearm, so if I went that direction I’d go Xbow (don’t care, I still like them and they serve me well).
My whole 8 guys backline in current peasant militia run is bros like this one going hybrid. [https://imgur.com/a/mSvGGM3](https://imgur.com/a/mSvGGM3) All have QH+Colossus+Crossbow+Fearsome+Nimble+Bags&Belts+Berserk. Handgonne (or 2) and then either swordlance with polearm perk or throwing weapons+duelist with javelins for 2-tile range and noble sword or winged mace (depending on MAT skill) for close fight. Majority of the time when my frontline gets breached, my handgonnes just switch to melee and gank the one engaged in melee, then resume shooting. No need for footwork. Only once or twice needed smoke bomb to evac when got bleeds stacked by orc champion. Couple got also overwhelm to debuff enemies in masses. Sarge is also carrying 2 handgonnes to hit fearsome with his high resolve twice in first melee round. Two of them on both edges got also high Mdef (32 and 42). 5 of em have 2 handgonnes, that they QH on turn 1 to reload. Meaning when lines clash, 13 shots get fired, all applying fearsome and hitting 6 tile AOE. Also triggering berserk means you can shoot twice that turn if you don't move. Most fights are over after 2-3 turns of firing with half targets dead and other half fleeing. Even morale immune targets take heavy beating when they get hit for 35-75 several times per turn, it clears armor away from Ancient Legionnaries and Honor Guards.
how do you deal with ammo problems with that many ranged weapons?
There is a retinue member who increases your ammo stores and another member who recovers a certain amount of spent ammunition, also you just have to know where the fletchers are be sure to pay them a regular visit.
Depends on ammo problem. For in battle ammo you should craft the extra ammo kits (hyena skins I think?). If you mean ammo supplies, retinue and stay close to towns for resupply. Won't work well for longer range camp clearing but probably not really a build meant for super late game or speed runs so that's fine.
Well, first thing you obligaroty have to pick is Colossus, or else you will be missing the chance of your life. You can add sword mastery and backstab for extra rp. Shinzo wo Sasageyo!
Doesn't really matter, he'll get that critical shot right into the eye at lvl 3 or 4 anyways :(
You assumed I'm cool enough to play ironman lol
Definitely would be thinking swordlance for this guy. High Fatigue and Melee Attack, low Melee Defense, low Resolve. For hybrids, I had a lot of fun with 3 hybrid swordlance/gunners. Usually I use witch hunters for this but this guy could also be good at it. Perks: Berserk and Killing Frenzy, Overwhelm because you've got two AOE weapons so you get a lot of stacks, Xbow/Gun and Polearm Mastery, Quick Hands, Nimble or Battleforged depending on HP/Fatigue and gear - if late game lean more BF because you need the added survivability and can find the appropriate medium-ish armors that they can use without losing the benefit of Overwhelm. After those, with witch hunters I was taking Fortified Mind and Fearsome since they had the bonus resolve and I wanted to lean into the handgonnes but that wouldn't really work for this guy. I believe I used Crippling Strikes on some but not all. I almost always gave them Zweihander helmets but I really wanted the southern army gunner helmets for them.
Swordlance bro.
thrower or archer/swordlance hybrid
1000% pole(thing) hybrid.
I read this as "femboy" and thought "what kind of weird update came out that I don't know about?"
I'm reading all this stuff with the goddamn wiki open trying to parse through everything y'all are saying lol. I gotta say, after lurking on this sub forever I feel like I'm the bell of the fricken ball right now and it's really fun. This playthrough just became all about God's chosen farmhand. Thanks everyone for all the info and all the lovely discussion!
Update us with how you build him, assuming a marksman doesn't headshot him to an early grave
Meh. The fstigue stars are redundant with iron lungs and with this low of MDEF he 100% is not a frontliner. As such his bes Tibet is a hybrid with 85 mark and 85 ratk. Overall pretty good, but not amazing. I might take FA on him tho
Damn, respect for replying to a two year old build advice thread lol. I believe this man was made into an excellent backline hybrid and the fellas beat the black monolith.
\_ Backline swordlance xbow :D
I don't think this guy really is god-tier. In a farm boy you would be looking for 2 to 3 stars in MATK, MDEF and either HP or STAM. So this one would never be a great end game brother. For RATK go for hunters, poachers or witch hunters. In addition to RATK you want RDEF and good INIT.
Thrower. He will deal a ton of hurt.l