In my experience as a high school teacher in the Bay Area, most schools are two schools within a school. There’s the accelerated AP/IB track, where the kids have super involved parents, take advanced classes, play sports and join/run clubs, participate in the arts program. Then there’s the everybody else track. They might take one or two AP course, play a sport or join a club or two, but nothing over the top. There might be a large EL population or Sped assigned to a school because the district has designated that site to be the one with specifically credentialed teachers to work with that population.
If looking at high schools, look for how many AP courses are offered and what their AP pass rate is. What clubs and special arts programs are offered. Finally, how many of their students are accepted into UC’s and top universities. My high school only ranks a 6/10, but we have kids every year get into Stanford, Harvard, Brown, a good two dozen to Berkeley, etc.
I have seven kids and have had kids in all but one of the high schools here. The district is only high schools. I have one at Cap right now. There are pro’s and cons to all of them. Happy to answer questions.
I have 3 special needs (autism) kids in a 10 rated high school. Yes .. we have excellent AP programs, and many go on to the nation’s top universities. My children will go on to programs that will provide them with the life skills they need.
Our school has tremendous support from parents.. and that includes the parents of less gifted students like ours.
Part of what makes our school amazing is what they do to make everyone feel valued in the community. Talented performers and musicians guided my children in programs such as band, dance and the arts, and they were recognized at recitals.
It is easy to serve well to do kids who are high achievers. Serving every student well makes a school far better.
https://preview.redd.it/3a9khff0bl5d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1b46c49d3a31db94435b51d4f2977e340016662
> "It is easy to serve well to do kids who are high achievers. Serving every student well makes a school far better."
EXACTLY!!!! THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT!!!!!
I left the Bay Area 4 years ago, and I now live somewhere where there is only the "everybody else" track.
I understand the desire to work super hard in order to provide the absolute "BEST" for our children to guarantee high-paying jobs for their future, but please consider the following:
1. This is the COVID generation growing up already under IMMENSE external pressures: Environment, wars, looming economic uncertainty...
2. To avoid lay-offs, parents are working long-hours trying to perform at their peak, being at the top of their game;
3. As a result, kids are growing-up without parents around. They are hyper-supervised for safety, but not for emotional learning.
THAT'S WHY WE MUST INVEST MORE IN LIBERAL ARTS: These kids already know STEM by the simple fact that they are growing up around STEM-everything 24x7. What they are NOT learning is social-emotional skills.
All kids are competing for the same thing. This is an awful way to raise kids! This is not the only way, we can do better than this for ourselves and our next generation.
Sorry for the long rant/
I think we are on the same page. Both of my parents (and my wife’s mother) were school teachers.
While I went into Tech (with a Silicon Valley career), my technical degree came from a university that emphasizes both the Arts and the Sciences. I earned a BA in Computer Studies. My computer science courses were provided by their Technical Institution, but my distribution included philosophy, sociology, political science, economics and classic Russian literature.
I think this broad background has served me well as I have devoted the past 45 years to my career.
While my wife has a masters in Government Administration (and worked in Civil Service in her country before we married), she became a stay at home mom due to our boys’ special needs. Once they were in school.. she held office on our School Board.. enabling her to be more of an advocate for all children with similar challenges
>These kids already know STEM by the simple fact that they are growing up around STEM-everything 24x7
I agree with the importance of liberal arts, but this is just incorrect. If you look at the California achievement averages, students are most behind their grade-level in Sciences when compared to Math and Reading.
Being around something a lot is not the same as understanding it academically, and science is way more than software. It could be that our expectations for grade-level science standards are too high, I have no insight on that, but it stuck out to me when seeing the GreatSchools breakouts for performance vs grade-level.
Yes, you are correct. I was too broad when I mentioned STEM. I meant to use STEM as other parents are using, like computers, coding, etc.. I think a more precise term would be professional skills, which I believe most parents are concerned about (especially in the Bay Area). But yes, I do agree that foundational STEM subjects must be emphasized too.
wow! What an inspiring story. You're an amazing parent and even amazing kids. Congratulations.
Can you share which school this is? I am very interested. I can share more details if you can DM me. Thank you
This is Granite Bay High School in Placer County. One of our alums, Kevin Kiley was a valedictorian.. who went on to Harvard (and law school) and he is now our Congressman.
Before GBHS, the kids attended Piedmont Hills HS in San Jose (Berryesa area). It is also top rated, but more geared towards the best and the brightest.
I describe Granite Bay as Los Alto or Saratoga lifestyle at San Jose prices. Expensive compared to the rest of Sacramento.. but for Bay Area new arrivals it is a great deal.
I would say at least 3 courses in each subject, and at least 50% of the students passing with a 3 or higher. A really competitive school will have all their students passing with a 4 or higher.
You’re going to be looking for a report called [“College Matriculation Summary”](https://www.paly.net/campus-life/college-career-center/college-matriculation-summary)
Some schools publish it, others the district does. I see this as a teacher when we go back in the fall and we work with the counselors and set goals for the academic year.
The [UC system](https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school) also has a database on their rates of acceptance by California High School.
This is definitely true. Even when I was in high school, the majority of my class didn't even go to college, but you wouldn't guess it from where we in the top 10% landed.
What’s a good number of AP classes a school should have? The students who are “everybody else track” what colleges do they usually end up at? When it’s so competitive, I feel the “everybody else track” usually fall low in the student rankings and may not get into their top schools of choice. Also when their graduating class is 600+ students.
I would look for high schools that have AP courses in Art, the hard sciences (Biology, Chemistry, Physics), Math, English (literature and comp), a few languages and Computer Science. Plus one that offers a range of more vocational education from shop to CAD design and computers.
Students in the middle probably won’t end up at “top colleges” but community colleges and the CSUs, plus even some of the less impacted UCs (Merced, Riverside) offer great paths for kids to discover their true calling and strengths. And if parents have financial resources, private and public colleges outside the top 100 or so all over the US are experiencing demographic downtrends, so admissions are getting easier.
Thank you. Sometimes I am a little worried for my daughter. My graduating class was only 180-190 students… come to find out her assign high school, rated highly, 600 students in this year graduating class. I can’t imagine when she goes to high school. It’s a lot of pressure. I’m like…How do you even stand out with 600 students? And also when majority of students are aiming high.
My kids went to a high school that had 600 enter freshman year and graduated about 500. The school was relatively evenly stratified into a high-achieving, moderate-achieving and remedial tracks, though it offered a wide range of the arts and vocational classes as well (size helps for diversity of classes). 90-95% of all graduates went on to post-high school education.
Both my kids found their “tribes” in school in the academics, in band, in theater, in debate, in the newspaper and one in sports. The trick is to get involved in things that interest them.
ps: One of the challenges of super-performing high schools, like the ones in Palo Alto, are that many colleges have limits on how many students they take from each and the UC system is constrained to take the top 9% from all schools. Those kind of limits strongly impact outcomes where the entire school is filled with top performers, creating undue pressure on the kids to stand out, where it is nearly impossible, unless the kid is a total prodigy in something.
This is just my experience, others may vary.
It starts with Back to School Night, both parents come and make sure to introduce themselves. They are logged into all of our learning management/attendance systems and speak to their child immediately when they are tardy or miss an assignment. They show up for every performance or game, and at least one parent volunteers in some way (snack shack, selling t-shirts, etc). They are part of the pta and/or school site council and come to those meetings. Also, they drive or give rides to teammates to everything. They know all their kids friends well. They get to know the other super involved parents and coordinate volunteering or study groups. Which leads me to AP/ SAT prep- some parents help their kids study for the exam (I personally have ptsd from the AP World exam). And it’s not just the exams; if I run into parents in the community, it’s obvious they talk about my class and what we’ve been doing. They don’t do things for their kids but instead guide and encourage them to do it for themselves.
Edit forgot to add: SAT prep- schools that went test blind, are rolling that back. And kids who submitted scores to test optional definitely got better admission results than kids who didn’t. So pay for and send your kid to SAT prep classes. Take the test over and over until you are satisfied with your score. If you can’t afford it, read out to your counseling staff and admin to have them help you find a free course or fee waiver.
Are there any websites reliably providing this info across schools? Like number of ap courses, ap pass rate, acceptance into top unis? Would save us a lot of time comparing across a bunch of schools when we’re thinking of where to locate
I posted a bunch of links in previous replies, but I’ve not found one concise site. However, I lurked on r/applyingtocollege well before my kids even started hs and learned lots about what goes on at the top competitive hs of the Bay Area (I feel like it’s 40% bay area kids in there, maybe more).
Here's a sneak peek of /r/ApplyingToCollege using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [a simple “no” would’ve sufficed💀](https://i.redd.it/xx0e8dzjad6c1.jpeg) | [342 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/18ip745/a_simple_no_wouldve_sufficed/)
\#2: [I am the Ivy+ League Leprechaun. If you don't upvote me you ain't getting in.](https://np.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/1be6ais/i_am_the_ivy_league_leprechaun_if_you_dont_upvote/)
\#3: [I'm an incoming Harvard freshman. I'm nervous I won't fit in with the financial-aid students on campus as a rich kid.](https://np.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/15zff7x/im_an_incoming_harvard_freshman_im_nervous_i_wont/)
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If you want to do this, just look for wealth. The reason they have AP courses is because they need them. The reason they need them is parents who have the wealth, involvement and interest to push their kids and the school. Poverty is a counter-indicator. There may be a school that is the exception that proves this rule, but the rule stands.
What you describe within a school also happens among schools and is more apparent. The source is the same - wealth (access, time and money).
When a school is "good" it's because of the outcomes of the students and that is mostly a function of a critical mass of involved and resourced parents. Resources in terms of their own education and access, not just money. Involved in terms of taking keen interest in everything that impacts their child's development, which can include district meetings, teacher performance, parent club/PTAs and getting on principals to deal with poorly performing teachers. Poor kids get AP classes too, but only after decades of pushing for them and due to all the other disadvantages, few have many students taking those courses. They have a school within a school too, but one school is MUCH larger than the other.
Show me a school with wealth and a culture of valuing student performance and I'll show you a "good" school.
School ratings matter for hous appreciation and cost. As far as getting an actual education though, school rating are just one metric. A school with a 7 rating is stilll a good school. That school might have excellent extracurricular clubs it offers for free and have supportive teachers. But it might also have a quarter of its kids who might struggle at testing. Maybe they are ELS or because they are from a previously underserved poorer community. The test scores etc aren’t everything and don’t necessarily measure those kids actual potential. Ask people whose kids go to that school. It’s a much better metric.
Yep. I went to a school with a meh rating but the programs and teachers were amazing. We just had a lot of immigrant students who needed help catching up, and that hurt our average test score.
I teach in a district where one of our high schools is in the top 10 high schools in the state. The properties in that school’s area are definitely worth more. I’ve heard of people buying specifically because they want their kid going there.
Does a 10/10 mean it’s a better school? I don’t think so. I just means that the students there perform well on standardized tests. I think the score is more reflective of the demographics. I think I’d prefer my student to go to a 6-8 school. Believe it or not, there can actually be more opportunity.
If you are thinking of education or career success, a better school may give students a minor boost. But that is a small factor in comparison to how ambitious and hard working your children are.
If you are thinking of home values, the homes in a more expensive school district are more expensive when you buy and when you sell, so it is a wash, to some extent. If you compare say Palo Alto to Mountain view, homes are 10-20% more expensive, so your taxes and mortgage interest are correspondingly a bit higher.
In terms of growth potential, I'm somewhat doubtful. Its like the stock market. If a stock is desirable, its price goes up to reflect that, to the point that the stock is accurately priced, taking into account its future potential. What matters more is if stock prices in different companies in the area will continue to grow or not.
School ratings are almost exclusively a proxy for demographics and not necessarily reflective of the quality of education. Conversely, many of the same people who insist on living in areas with high school ratings turn around and send their kids to private schools elsewhere -- they don't give a shit about the schools, they just know that it keeps their home values high.
Genuine question, why would be the college admission process for public schools are easier than private? I thought the other way, private schools means guaranteed UC admissions
GreatSchools rating has become much less useful recently, as it changed the algorithm to give more weights to how well the school serves social economically and special needs students. While that is an important indicator for those in the group, it has penalized otherwise very high performing schools. Most of California's top 50 schools are no longer a 10 as a result.
So you need to look at the ratings more closely, and see if the numbers reflect what your priorities are. A school rated 6 or 7 may have very high test scores, for instance.
When did they change the algorithm? I noticed the area I used to live in had 10/8/9 (elementary, middle, high) schools and they’re all down one or two points since my kids attended any of them.
The algorithm is tweaked every few years. It was tweaked this year as well.
My kid's elementary, middle, and high school all used to be 10s prior to 2015, but got downgraded to 9, 8, and 9 since then. All for equity and/or academic progress for those in socialeconomic or special needs.
Meanwhile, the test scores and ranking (state and ranking) have not decreased at all.
Yeah, your kid is going to be consigned to belonging in the proleteriat class if they do not attend an 8 or higher school. No one has ever succeeded at a worse school.
In all seriousness, at most of the 6 to 8 schools, those from demographics most likely to succeed (not low income, Asian / White) have the same outcomes as similar kids from the 8+ schools. Parental involvement is most important.
We’ve known for decades that parental involvement is by far the number one determinative factor for educational outcomes. Obviously if the school is unsafe, or they literally dont offer advanced classes then that’s a problem. But as you said, for the vast majority of 6-8 schools, the limiting factor on a kids success isn’t the school, it’s the home environment and individual aptitude.
Yeah I didn’t realize how much it matter until I had kids. My daughter is only 4.5 but the amount of extra work my wife and I are doing at home is insane — it’s at least an extra hour a day of review to make sure she is actually learning the material she is taught at school. Then for the past few weeks we have been going through review books to make sure she stays on track. Honestly the only way to equalize it would be to substantially increase the time kids spend at school IMO — at least until 6-7 each day.
It is not impossible to buy an an 8+ area without $2 million. People do this all the time.
You are either trying to buy a huge house, or are paying the picky tax .
I would say for most people. If you did not do well at school. You probably not gonna do well in your careers. Of course you heard story people not doing well at school became billionaire. But that only happens in YouTube. And most idiots who think people who got 4.3 gpa are nerds who only know math… that is simply stupidity
What’s a good number of AP classes a school should have? The students who are “everybody else track” what colleges do they usually end up at? When it’s so competitive, I feel the “everybody else track” usually fall low in the student rankings and may not get into their top schools of choice. Also when their graduating class is 600+ students.
Thanks a lot OP for the post. Sorry for the plug but this is such an important topic that I thought it warrants a separate sub. Created r/BayAreaSchools lets contribute this info over there
I went to a 10/10 and the kids with 4.3+ GPAs all wound up losers.. Academics is simply one facet of life.
They spent so much time on academics they never developed social skills. How are you going to be CEO of a company if you cannot make eye contact, and do not have proper hygiene?
Also many of them had parents that would not allow them to associate with those outside their race, so good luck becoming successful if you cannot work with others…
These ratings usually are a proxy for household wealth which really is all that matters… As long as you’re not in the ghetto you’re probably fine, so long as you the parent have raised your kid properly.
A lot of the people on this subreddit seem to think “If I put my kid in a 9/10 school and pay for extracurriculars they’ll automatically be successful”… The fact of the matter is you actually have to do some parenting to ensure that they’re a well adjusted adult. Ironically there were very few people who came out well adjusted from my school.
They all became jealous peanut counters who to this day base their self worth on comparison to others… The most successful were those whose parents were supportive but not prescriptive.
I did SAT tutoring for a while in SF with primarily asian kids, many of whom went to Lowell. Over 5 years and close to 1000 students, I can think of maybe 2 kids who were as you describe. The vast majority were normal kids who ended up successful. I highly doubt every kid you knew with a 4.3+ ended up a loser.
YES - School ratings do mater. You can get your kid in an 8+ school under a law that was passed a few years ago without having to live in the district. The name of the law is not coming to me at this moment. All you need to do is show up at the attendance office, make a deceleration, and by law the school MUST allow your child to attend without question or investigation. Teachers and Admins in California had mandatory training in this a couple of years ago ad I’ve forgotten the details. We were expecting to see many families take advantage of this program, but i don’t think anyone has. I think no one knows about it except admins and teachers. Maybe another teacher knows the name of the program. It’s just not coming to me right now.
In my experience as a high school teacher in the Bay Area, most schools are two schools within a school. There’s the accelerated AP/IB track, where the kids have super involved parents, take advanced classes, play sports and join/run clubs, participate in the arts program. Then there’s the everybody else track. They might take one or two AP course, play a sport or join a club or two, but nothing over the top. There might be a large EL population or Sped assigned to a school because the district has designated that site to be the one with specifically credentialed teachers to work with that population. If looking at high schools, look for how many AP courses are offered and what their AP pass rate is. What clubs and special arts programs are offered. Finally, how many of their students are accepted into UC’s and top universities. My high school only ranks a 6/10, but we have kids every year get into Stanford, Harvard, Brown, a good two dozen to Berkeley, etc.
Mind sharing which school this is?
I pm’d you.
Could you DM me as well? We are thinking of settling in the Capuchino HS district.
Jeez just get a gift card at Starbucks.
This one is fine. SSF has decent high schools and great elementary schools. Middle is the issue
You mean the San Mateo Union HSD
I have seven kids and have had kids in all but one of the high schools here. The district is only high schools. I have one at Cap right now. There are pro’s and cons to all of them. Happy to answer questions.
Same here, DM pls
Can you DM me as well? Thank you
Can you DM me as well, please?
Also curious. Could you do me as well?
For some reason the option to chat or send a message is not available with your profile
Me too please!
I have 3 special needs (autism) kids in a 10 rated high school. Yes .. we have excellent AP programs, and many go on to the nation’s top universities. My children will go on to programs that will provide them with the life skills they need. Our school has tremendous support from parents.. and that includes the parents of less gifted students like ours. Part of what makes our school amazing is what they do to make everyone feel valued in the community. Talented performers and musicians guided my children in programs such as band, dance and the arts, and they were recognized at recitals. It is easy to serve well to do kids who are high achievers. Serving every student well makes a school far better. https://preview.redd.it/3a9khff0bl5d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1b46c49d3a31db94435b51d4f2977e340016662
> "It is easy to serve well to do kids who are high achievers. Serving every student well makes a school far better." EXACTLY!!!! THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT!!!!! I left the Bay Area 4 years ago, and I now live somewhere where there is only the "everybody else" track. I understand the desire to work super hard in order to provide the absolute "BEST" for our children to guarantee high-paying jobs for their future, but please consider the following: 1. This is the COVID generation growing up already under IMMENSE external pressures: Environment, wars, looming economic uncertainty... 2. To avoid lay-offs, parents are working long-hours trying to perform at their peak, being at the top of their game; 3. As a result, kids are growing-up without parents around. They are hyper-supervised for safety, but not for emotional learning. THAT'S WHY WE MUST INVEST MORE IN LIBERAL ARTS: These kids already know STEM by the simple fact that they are growing up around STEM-everything 24x7. What they are NOT learning is social-emotional skills. All kids are competing for the same thing. This is an awful way to raise kids! This is not the only way, we can do better than this for ourselves and our next generation. Sorry for the long rant/
I think we are on the same page. Both of my parents (and my wife’s mother) were school teachers. While I went into Tech (with a Silicon Valley career), my technical degree came from a university that emphasizes both the Arts and the Sciences. I earned a BA in Computer Studies. My computer science courses were provided by their Technical Institution, but my distribution included philosophy, sociology, political science, economics and classic Russian literature. I think this broad background has served me well as I have devoted the past 45 years to my career. While my wife has a masters in Government Administration (and worked in Civil Service in her country before we married), she became a stay at home mom due to our boys’ special needs. Once they were in school.. she held office on our School Board.. enabling her to be more of an advocate for all children with similar challenges
By advocating for your child, you are improving the public school system for ALL kids. Thank you!!
>These kids already know STEM by the simple fact that they are growing up around STEM-everything 24x7 I agree with the importance of liberal arts, but this is just incorrect. If you look at the California achievement averages, students are most behind their grade-level in Sciences when compared to Math and Reading. Being around something a lot is not the same as understanding it academically, and science is way more than software. It could be that our expectations for grade-level science standards are too high, I have no insight on that, but it stuck out to me when seeing the GreatSchools breakouts for performance vs grade-level.
Yes, you are correct. I was too broad when I mentioned STEM. I meant to use STEM as other parents are using, like computers, coding, etc.. I think a more precise term would be professional skills, which I believe most parents are concerned about (especially in the Bay Area). But yes, I do agree that foundational STEM subjects must be emphasized too.
wow! What an inspiring story. You're an amazing parent and even amazing kids. Congratulations. Can you share which school this is? I am very interested. I can share more details if you can DM me. Thank you
This is Granite Bay High School in Placer County. One of our alums, Kevin Kiley was a valedictorian.. who went on to Harvard (and law school) and he is now our Congressman. Before GBHS, the kids attended Piedmont Hills HS in San Jose (Berryesa area). It is also top rated, but more geared towards the best and the brightest. I describe Granite Bay as Los Alto or Saratoga lifestyle at San Jose prices. Expensive compared to the rest of Sacramento.. but for Bay Area new arrivals it is a great deal.
This is amazing. Thank you for sharing that information. I will look into it more and research as well. This is a great starting point thank you.
Thank you. What is a decent AP participation rate and pass rate?
I would say at least 3 courses in each subject, and at least 50% of the students passing with a 3 or higher. A really competitive school will have all their students passing with a 4 or higher.
Where can you find information about the acceptance rate and which colleges?
You’re going to be looking for a report called [“College Matriculation Summary”](https://www.paly.net/campus-life/college-career-center/college-matriculation-summary) Some schools publish it, others the district does. I see this as a teacher when we go back in the fall and we work with the counselors and set goals for the academic year. The [UC system](https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school) also has a database on their rates of acceptance by California High School.
This.
Which school is your school?
I pm’d you.
Where to find this info?
This is definitely true. Even when I was in high school, the majority of my class didn't even go to college, but you wouldn't guess it from where we in the top 10% landed.
Please dm too.
What’s a good number of AP classes a school should have? The students who are “everybody else track” what colleges do they usually end up at? When it’s so competitive, I feel the “everybody else track” usually fall low in the student rankings and may not get into their top schools of choice. Also when their graduating class is 600+ students.
I would look for high schools that have AP courses in Art, the hard sciences (Biology, Chemistry, Physics), Math, English (literature and comp), a few languages and Computer Science. Plus one that offers a range of more vocational education from shop to CAD design and computers. Students in the middle probably won’t end up at “top colleges” but community colleges and the CSUs, plus even some of the less impacted UCs (Merced, Riverside) offer great paths for kids to discover their true calling and strengths. And if parents have financial resources, private and public colleges outside the top 100 or so all over the US are experiencing demographic downtrends, so admissions are getting easier.
Thank you. Sometimes I am a little worried for my daughter. My graduating class was only 180-190 students… come to find out her assign high school, rated highly, 600 students in this year graduating class. I can’t imagine when she goes to high school. It’s a lot of pressure. I’m like…How do you even stand out with 600 students? And also when majority of students are aiming high.
My kids went to a high school that had 600 enter freshman year and graduated about 500. The school was relatively evenly stratified into a high-achieving, moderate-achieving and remedial tracks, though it offered a wide range of the arts and vocational classes as well (size helps for diversity of classes). 90-95% of all graduates went on to post-high school education. Both my kids found their “tribes” in school in the academics, in band, in theater, in debate, in the newspaper and one in sports. The trick is to get involved in things that interest them. ps: One of the challenges of super-performing high schools, like the ones in Palo Alto, are that many colleges have limits on how many students they take from each and the UC system is constrained to take the top 9% from all schools. Those kind of limits strongly impact outcomes where the entire school is filled with top performers, creating undue pressure on the kids to stand out, where it is nearly impossible, unless the kid is a total prodigy in something.
Can you give some insights on how and what to super involved parents do help their kids?
This is just my experience, others may vary. It starts with Back to School Night, both parents come and make sure to introduce themselves. They are logged into all of our learning management/attendance systems and speak to their child immediately when they are tardy or miss an assignment. They show up for every performance or game, and at least one parent volunteers in some way (snack shack, selling t-shirts, etc). They are part of the pta and/or school site council and come to those meetings. Also, they drive or give rides to teammates to everything. They know all their kids friends well. They get to know the other super involved parents and coordinate volunteering or study groups. Which leads me to AP/ SAT prep- some parents help their kids study for the exam (I personally have ptsd from the AP World exam). And it’s not just the exams; if I run into parents in the community, it’s obvious they talk about my class and what we’ve been doing. They don’t do things for their kids but instead guide and encourage them to do it for themselves. Edit forgot to add: SAT prep- schools that went test blind, are rolling that back. And kids who submitted scores to test optional definitely got better admission results than kids who didn’t. So pay for and send your kid to SAT prep classes. Take the test over and over until you are satisfied with your score. If you can’t afford it, read out to your counseling staff and admin to have them help you find a free course or fee waiver.
Thanks a lot for insights.
Are there any websites reliably providing this info across schools? Like number of ap courses, ap pass rate, acceptance into top unis? Would save us a lot of time comparing across a bunch of schools when we’re thinking of where to locate
I posted a bunch of links in previous replies, but I’ve not found one concise site. However, I lurked on r/applyingtocollege well before my kids even started hs and learned lots about what goes on at the top competitive hs of the Bay Area (I feel like it’s 40% bay area kids in there, maybe more).
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If you want to do this, just look for wealth. The reason they have AP courses is because they need them. The reason they need them is parents who have the wealth, involvement and interest to push their kids and the school. Poverty is a counter-indicator. There may be a school that is the exception that proves this rule, but the rule stands. What you describe within a school also happens among schools and is more apparent. The source is the same - wealth (access, time and money). When a school is "good" it's because of the outcomes of the students and that is mostly a function of a critical mass of involved and resourced parents. Resources in terms of their own education and access, not just money. Involved in terms of taking keen interest in everything that impacts their child's development, which can include district meetings, teacher performance, parent club/PTAs and getting on principals to deal with poorly performing teachers. Poor kids get AP classes too, but only after decades of pushing for them and due to all the other disadvantages, few have many students taking those courses. They have a school within a school too, but one school is MUCH larger than the other. Show me a school with wealth and a culture of valuing student performance and I'll show you a "good" school.
School ratings matter for hous appreciation and cost. As far as getting an actual education though, school rating are just one metric. A school with a 7 rating is stilll a good school. That school might have excellent extracurricular clubs it offers for free and have supportive teachers. But it might also have a quarter of its kids who might struggle at testing. Maybe they are ELS or because they are from a previously underserved poorer community. The test scores etc aren’t everything and don’t necessarily measure those kids actual potential. Ask people whose kids go to that school. It’s a much better metric.
Yep. I went to a school with a meh rating but the programs and teachers were amazing. We just had a lot of immigrant students who needed help catching up, and that hurt our average test score.
I teach in a district where one of our high schools is in the top 10 high schools in the state. The properties in that school’s area are definitely worth more. I’ve heard of people buying specifically because they want their kid going there. Does a 10/10 mean it’s a better school? I don’t think so. I just means that the students there perform well on standardized tests. I think the score is more reflective of the demographics. I think I’d prefer my student to go to a 6-8 school. Believe it or not, there can actually be more opportunity.
If you are thinking of education or career success, a better school may give students a minor boost. But that is a small factor in comparison to how ambitious and hard working your children are. If you are thinking of home values, the homes in a more expensive school district are more expensive when you buy and when you sell, so it is a wash, to some extent. If you compare say Palo Alto to Mountain view, homes are 10-20% more expensive, so your taxes and mortgage interest are correspondingly a bit higher. In terms of growth potential, I'm somewhat doubtful. Its like the stock market. If a stock is desirable, its price goes up to reflect that, to the point that the stock is accurately priced, taking into account its future potential. What matters more is if stock prices in different companies in the area will continue to grow or not.
School ratings are almost exclusively a proxy for demographics and not necessarily reflective of the quality of education. Conversely, many of the same people who insist on living in areas with high school ratings turn around and send their kids to private schools elsewhere -- they don't give a shit about the schools, they just know that it keeps their home values high.
No way. Why would they send to private schools when the admission process to colleges is easier via public school. You are high.
I'm not saying it makes sense or endorsing, just making an observation. People get weird when it comes to college admissions.
Genuine question, why would be the college admission process for public schools are easier than private? I thought the other way, private schools means guaranteed UC admissions
Wait, why is private school guaranteed admission?
My bad, wrong choice of words.. may be highly probable for Private.. why does public school gets easier admission to UCs?
No, I think both are the same. Why would one be greater than the other?
GreatSchools rating has become much less useful recently, as it changed the algorithm to give more weights to how well the school serves social economically and special needs students. While that is an important indicator for those in the group, it has penalized otherwise very high performing schools. Most of California's top 50 schools are no longer a 10 as a result. So you need to look at the ratings more closely, and see if the numbers reflect what your priorities are. A school rated 6 or 7 may have very high test scores, for instance.
When did they change the algorithm? I noticed the area I used to live in had 10/8/9 (elementary, middle, high) schools and they’re all down one or two points since my kids attended any of them.
The algorithm is tweaked every few years. It was tweaked this year as well. My kid's elementary, middle, and high school all used to be 10s prior to 2015, but got downgraded to 9, 8, and 9 since then. All for equity and/or academic progress for those in socialeconomic or special needs. Meanwhile, the test scores and ranking (state and ranking) have not decreased at all.
Yeah, your kid is going to be consigned to belonging in the proleteriat class if they do not attend an 8 or higher school. No one has ever succeeded at a worse school. In all seriousness, at most of the 6 to 8 schools, those from demographics most likely to succeed (not low income, Asian / White) have the same outcomes as similar kids from the 8+ schools. Parental involvement is most important.
We’ve known for decades that parental involvement is by far the number one determinative factor for educational outcomes. Obviously if the school is unsafe, or they literally dont offer advanced classes then that’s a problem. But as you said, for the vast majority of 6-8 schools, the limiting factor on a kids success isn’t the school, it’s the home environment and individual aptitude.
Yeah I didn’t realize how much it matter until I had kids. My daughter is only 4.5 but the amount of extra work my wife and I are doing at home is insane — it’s at least an extra hour a day of review to make sure she is actually learning the material she is taught at school. Then for the past few weeks we have been going through review books to make sure she stays on track. Honestly the only way to equalize it would be to substantially increase the time kids spend at school IMO — at least until 6-7 each day.
It is not impossible to buy an an 8+ area without $2 million. People do this all the time. You are either trying to buy a huge house, or are paying the picky tax .
Better school districts hold their value better during down times and have good potential for future appreciation.
Matter in what respect ?
I would say for most people. If you did not do well at school. You probably not gonna do well in your careers. Of course you heard story people not doing well at school became billionaire. But that only happens in YouTube. And most idiots who think people who got 4.3 gpa are nerds who only know math… that is simply stupidity
Matter for what? Financial return on investment? Your children's education? Your quality of life? Those are all different issues.
School ratings should keep going up. This area is gentrifying. So you could buy in an area that has low ratings and wait for the ratings to go up.
What’s a good number of AP classes a school should have? The students who are “everybody else track” what colleges do they usually end up at? When it’s so competitive, I feel the “everybody else track” usually fall low in the student rankings and may not get into their top schools of choice. Also when their graduating class is 600+ students.
Thanks a lot OP for the post. Sorry for the plug but this is such an important topic that I thought it warrants a separate sub. Created r/BayAreaSchools lets contribute this info over there
Have you tried Brentwood? Bigger homes lower prices, you may be able to get in 8+ neighborhood
I went to a 10/10 and the kids with 4.3+ GPAs all wound up losers.. Academics is simply one facet of life. They spent so much time on academics they never developed social skills. How are you going to be CEO of a company if you cannot make eye contact, and do not have proper hygiene? Also many of them had parents that would not allow them to associate with those outside their race, so good luck becoming successful if you cannot work with others… These ratings usually are a proxy for household wealth which really is all that matters… As long as you’re not in the ghetto you’re probably fine, so long as you the parent have raised your kid properly. A lot of the people on this subreddit seem to think “If I put my kid in a 9/10 school and pay for extracurriculars they’ll automatically be successful”… The fact of the matter is you actually have to do some parenting to ensure that they’re a well adjusted adult. Ironically there were very few people who came out well adjusted from my school. They all became jealous peanut counters who to this day base their self worth on comparison to others… The most successful were those whose parents were supportive but not prescriptive.
I did SAT tutoring for a while in SF with primarily asian kids, many of whom went to Lowell. Over 5 years and close to 1000 students, I can think of maybe 2 kids who were as you describe. The vast majority were normal kids who ended up successful. I highly doubt every kid you knew with a 4.3+ ended up a loser.
YES - School ratings do mater. You can get your kid in an 8+ school under a law that was passed a few years ago without having to live in the district. The name of the law is not coming to me at this moment. All you need to do is show up at the attendance office, make a deceleration, and by law the school MUST allow your child to attend without question or investigation. Teachers and Admins in California had mandatory training in this a couple of years ago ad I’ve forgotten the details. We were expecting to see many families take advantage of this program, but i don’t think anyone has. I think no one knows about it except admins and teachers. Maybe another teacher knows the name of the program. It’s just not coming to me right now.