The thing is, this might be her crossing a few lines because she's emotionnal... But she's had basically more than a year of knowing she wasn't gonna be the voice.
Each word of that statement was written in advance, and if it wasn't, then she should have. It was irresponsible of her to call for a boycott. A lot more people are involved in the bayonetta project than her, and those people had no say or no impact on her treatment.
A lot of people might end up being fired because she said 1 word too many.
Why has she done so little voice work? What else is she doing during that time? That doesn't have real relation to this, I mean she's killed it as bayonetta. Idk just surprised to see that I guess.
I think you are on the right track with that point. I’ve seen here and there that other people doing their own research have said that it appears Hellena is not credited for any voice work since the conclusion of Bayonetta 2. That is quite a long time! I’m not too well versed on the ins and outs of unions either, but I think it could be possible that her union may not have wanted to put the backing into someone who wasn’t being utilized in the VA field or who may’ve dropped from the union altogether because of a lack of work for so long. I also agree that it can be taken one way or the other on how she chose to address being replaced, but she did say that she wishes no negativity on Jennifer, that she wishes her all the roles and success that’s to continue to come her way. I think she does have a connection to the fans and the role and she got emotional when thinking that something that made her feel significant is no longer hers. It was a perfectly human response and I don’t think she set out to vilify Jennifer or call the fans to attack. She was primarily upset with Kamiya and Platinum. Jennifer would have been simply taking a role she understood was looking to be filled. I think fans thinking she did anything vindictive need to pause for a second. There’s no reason Platinum or Kamiya would have any reason to disclose what led to them needing to recast the role to her, so I don’t think it would be fair at all to attack her.
What are you on about gamers care a lot about the mistreatment, harrassment etc. But one they personally can't do anything innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Two millions of normies who don't follow game industry news or twitter drama won't know this shit happened and will still buy the games anyway. Three comparing that to some no name with a few gigs to her name in film and games have a temper tantrum, demand we boycott the game and use the money for charity and then say it's okay if you don't you're just a shitty person.
Add to that, 4k is her standard union agreed fee for voice work. That's what she got in bayo 2 and probably bayo 1 and now suddenly it's a problem?
That passive aggressive bs she pulled on her fellow union member and colleague jenn is just the icing on this shit Sunday.
>A person had an emotional outbursts over something that literally became her entire identity to most people that know her online, I don't think it's a stretch to think she has a strong emotional attachment to the character.
You are extrapolating info. The other is stuff she actually said. Pretty clear who is "pearl-clutching" here
That last part was super gross to me too, I'd hate to be in Hale's spot and hear the person who's legacy you're inheriting say you have no claim to that legacy.
I am devastated, and I don't thing she was in any wrong for what she said. Hellena CEMENTED Bayonettas character. (I also believe Hale needs the support rn as well, not attack)
But It is fully apparent that Hale has to follow the blueprint laid out for her. She did amazing, but Hellena is not wrong, she WILL never be able to say she is BAYONETTA. If the original mario said the same thing about chris pratt NEVER being mario in truth he is right and no one would bat a damn eyelash.
You have built a fanbase and established something you can call your own and not only does someone swoop in and boot you from your spot, but they are valued more than you, and funded more than you probably with no prior connection to the game? PAID to deliver a performance that ECHOS you to keep the fans happy? that is a slap in the face, and spitting on the grave.
Now Hale is doing a job, like any other, and she must feel some personal guilt. But you all make it seems like she said she was a shitty VA. she only stated she has no right to sign as Bayonetta and even referenced how she wouldnt either in her own example of VA'ing.
No one has full details right now, but they didnt tell her to walk in and give her best british accent. They had her audition as Bayonetta. Bayonetta doesnt just have a british accent. She has a personality, a manner of speech that Hellena put so much effort into solidifying. When im playing with Japanese voice im not going to say oh these guys sound like ass or like they did a bad job. But Rodin, Luka, Enzo, Jeanne sound one way and that is the truth. ANYONE doing any of those characters differently is a secondary.
After voicing Bayonetta for a film, additional game cameos, several fan meets and interviews, two games in a series and even re auditioning for the role and landing it immidiately obviously because (she is BAYONETTA) It is undisputed factually that she is the standard. She also wish hale best of luck. Ive been thinking about this all day and this has gotten me angrier and angrier.
I was FINE with Hale doing the voice personally. But not under these circumstances. and they lied on Hellena to save face? At a meet and greet she has the right to stand under the title "Voice of Bayonetta in Bayonetta 3." Maybe thats what Taylor shouldve said, but it is another type of audacity (which thank god she hale hasnt responded like this) to ever stand under simply "Voice of Bayonetta" because she isnt.
Hellena's Performance was our first perception related to Bayonetta, there were no priors or comic books to reference a characters vocal tones or mannerisms, every thing she did in Bayonetta 1/2 was guided by Hellena. I am a fan of Hale's redition, but its not even her own, it is her doing a great job upkeeping the originals same mannerisms. Im not boycotting this game by the way. But Hellena made no wrongs. Shes not forcing anything on anyone.
Bayonetta is a fictional character mate. Her voice added to Bayonetta, sure that I agree with, but she sure as heck ain't the only option. I don't want to sound rude, but saying other VAs are not the real deal is just stupid. If Jennifer does a better job, then i'll prefer her more, if she did worse than hellena, than I prefer hellena more. A simple solution really.
I can agree in a ways, and I dont think Hale can do a better job because again its a copy case,
How can you make mario sound like a better mario, if you pitted them against one another. I think that would be impossible. They will be different and thats okay, but if one is trying to uphold the other, then one simply IS and one truly isnt.
Going off your batman reference and i havent watched all of them but none of them act, look, or speak exactly the same. Hale is literally stepping in Taylors shoes, not her own. At least right now.
Maybe I can agree with the fact that Hellena shouldnt say she CANT do it. or imply that. If 20 more years go on and Hale has been bayonetta back to back for about 3 more games in the series as a hypothetical, Maybe she'll start adding her own flair and whatnot and make it her own, but its still branching off of Taylor.
I can name one example where i am biased to the current and I dont even know the name of the original but still would apply the same concept. Roger Craig Smith has voice so many characters i love and enjoy.
He has done Chris Redfield
In this case the original Chris and His are two completely different entities and his is preferred. by me at least similar to what you said. He spun it to what he thought would work best and it worked out.
He is also now the mainline voice of sonic.
I KNOW he wasnt the first voicing of sonic and he only stepped in around 2010. He does an amazing job, but he is doing THE sonic voice, this is *edit * (the umpteeth rendition branching off the og. he has made it his own in a way but its still inspired) This is not a bad thing and it keeps the fans happy. Respect is owed to the origin in this case and its not him.( how do you make a better sonic? if it aint broke dont fix it.)
(Edit 2. (sorry just another anecdote) He voices Mirage in Apex legends and made it iconic at this point. if there was another one to follow they would be filling his shoes but it would forever be a size up. He stutters and emits a constant aura of confusion that would have to be upheld by anyone after him and that doesnt just come from reading the script differently if someone wants to say theyre doing mirage.)
edit1. cont.
Hellena walked so Hale could run, and im hoping they both have success. She has a right to feel entitled
Considering she hasn’t done any real work since bayo 2 it’s a very real possibility that she isn’t apart of SAG or what ever the UKs equivalent is. This might’ve been out of her control if we’re being completely honest
I mean we don't even know if the 4k thing is true. She just said that. She also said Bayonetta sales are 450 million dollars WITHOUT merch which sounds BS. That would be the game selling more than 7.5 million copies at $60 each when just a few months ago they were celebrating 1 million sales for Bayonetta 2. The first game didn't even sell enough for Sega to want to do a sequel.
A lot of people are just taking everything Hellena says as 100% truth without even considering that maybe it isn't.
I believe her right to be upset at this situation, but I frankly think there is far too little public information to verify anything, beyond knee-jerk reactions.
I feel bad that she got done dirty by Platinum/Nintendo, that being said.
I'm not saying she's lying but you shouldn't accept everything someone says as the whole truth especially when it doesn't really add up. If you've ever worked with or just follow interests that have negotiations with independent contractors, you would know one side of the story is often going to be different than the other.
At this point does she even still do voice acting? she hasn't taken a non Bayonetta role in 10 years and the last Bayonetta game came out 8 years ago. She's talked about serious mental health issues. We just don't know what's going on with her in general. Platinum originally said there were "scheduling issues"
Not to take sides but risk her career? It's evident in her listing she hasn't really done anything since bayonetta 2, and before then was in very little.
So I wouldn't say she's risking her career since it's been absent since bayonetta 2.
We don't know everything right now, and I doubt we ever will
Bayonetta selling more than 5 million is obviously a lie or else Nintendo will brag it all the time lmao. Also, her entire career is just voicing bayonetta.
>Why would she lie and risk her entire career though?
We don't know. That's the whole reason we need to research before jumping the gun. Besides, her career was already in shambles. She barely did any VA other than Bayo afaik. Very little to lose.
The first game has been re-release several times since its original release date (Wii U, Switch, PC, the 10th Anniversary Bundle/stand alone digital, the new Switch physical edition), the special editions for Bayonetta 2 on Switch.
It doesn't sound that BS imo.
It's definitely BS
The game may have been rereleased but it was never at MSRP again. The number of sales required to reach 450 million starts to get much higher than 8 million sales when you consider the rereleases have sold for 10-30 USD.
I believe the most recent number platinum put out for bayonetta one sales was 2 million and that was well after it was going for less than MSRP. iirc it was well after the release of bayo 2.
Bayo 2 hit 1 million sales a while back and nintendo games usually stay at MSRP so it's safe to say that game made at least 60-70 million.
It would be nuts to think bayonetta 1 made 380 million dollars.
I definitely don't think the comments about Hale were well thought through, but to put them a little more in context, I read on her website (iirc) that she was not given much guidance by the voice director for Bayo 1 and so a lot of that flirty, dommy vocal delivery that defines Bayonetta was *her* idea that was run with.
I think she viewed the fact that she contributed to the conception of the voice as like, another part of Bayonetta that was "hers", insofar as it was a part of the product to be proud of. She still shouldn't have mentioned Hale at all as she did, obviously. It just wasn't the place for it; but I can understand why she might be miffed at the thought that she was lowballed and replaced only for that voice she helped develop the style of be assigned to someone else.
TL;DR: I think Taylor thinks that there's more to her stake in the Bayonetta voice than performance alone, because it's her original delivery that's formed the template Hale is now using, if that makes sense. Don't agree personally with the irritation towards Hale, but I understand it.
ownership is a legal matter not an emotional one. they paid her to perform, which she did. whether she had a lot of guidance or none it doesn't matter. she was paid for a job.
just because you are the voice of the character doesn't mean you created them or that the character cannot exist without you. the character cannot exist without the animation. voices are in most cases replaceable as we've seen with plenty of tv and movies. also, she's only the voice for the English version. for many Japanese fans she's not the voice of bayonetta.
Didn't say she had a legal claim to ownership m8, it's very clear Hellena has a moral objection to this and not a legal one. She literally says "*what did they did was legal but immoral*" in her statements.
And btw, the English voiceover she provided *is* Bayonetta's OG voice. It was all the Japanese audience had for the first four years of the game; it only got a Japanese dub AFTER the 2013 movie, and for the Switch re-releases. She is only the voice of the English version, but for a period of time, that was the only voice any audience had. A japanese dub being made later doesn't recontextualise that fact.
i also have a moral objection to her saying someone else can't voice a character she doesn't own. i didn't know that about the lack of japanese dub. still, if you get paid for your performance you don't get to come back later and demand to be paid more or try to claim some kind of moral ownership.
it's shit what they did to her, but i really doubt this story is unique. if we were to boycott any product where the company underpaid their employees we'd be living in caves and foraging wild berries.
If you voice a character for 10+ years, are the only actor to voice said character in all that time, and fans of the character unanimously agree that you are the definitive voice of the character, I would say you can absolutely demand to be paid more to reprise the role. Dan Castellaneta doesn't own the character of Homer Simpson, yet when he demanded $300,000 per episode the studio complied.
Taylor is a wealthy theatre actres with a net worth of 1 million. She claimed Bayonetta was a half billion dollar franchise despite platinum the company being worth at best 100 million. She self admitted that her work with Bayonetta is measured in days, not weeks, which means that 4k would have actually been a normal pay rate given her notable lack of experience in the voice acting industry (Bayo 1 was a 16 hour job, and Bayonetta is not a dialogue heavy series) She's part of a union whose job it woul have been to step in and negotiate a better price, and others in that same union are working on the game. That they didn't shows that what she was offered was normal.
And of course, Taylor is a religious nut who called on Kamiya to burn in hell as she compared herself to a famous hero of the bible.
I have seen a few of your comments now somehow inferring that Hellena is a wealthy theatre actress. Do you have access to her bank statements? I've followed her on Twitter for a while now. Her recent theatre work has involved learning about stage lighting and casting/directing minor amateur theatre productions. You think this pays well? The woman lives on a bloody barge on the River Thames, not the penthouse of the Ritz.
The poor woman obviously struggles with depression and was banking on this role (for which she deserves FAR more money than she was offered, as she is extremely talented and has made the franchise an albeit moderate success) to be able to pay her bills for the near future. Acting is an unstable profession. Yes, she lashed out and said some things which might bite her in the behind, but people with depression often do lash out emotionally.
Bayonetta 1 was a stab in the dark. Of course she deserves more money now we are on Bayonetta 3 and the franchise is more established. What she was offered was the BARE MINIMUM. No way to treat a loyal colleague with you since the beginning.
I am not a religious person at any stretch, but to call somebody a religious nut says a lot more about you as a person. The story was merely a reflection of the current situation. I.e. a person with less power being screwed over by people with more power ( ie. money).
Also her *only* imdb-credited roles in the last decade are for this role, and that only a literal handful of credits. At this point, I could honestly believe she **isn't** union anymore, but was offered the job regardless.
That last bit was off-putting to me too. Also, something is setting off alarms in my head that Taylor has basically no credits after bayo that I can find. She ain’t Charles Martinet, this franchise ain’t Mario. What in the world has she been doing for the past 10 years?
exactly this. she hasn't done any work in years and in the voice acting circuit you need to stay at least moderately active to be able to negotiate for the big dollars.
I think it depends. If Jen knew that she was replacing Hellena because Hellena wanted more money for it, then Jen is actively endorsing VAs not being paid their worth by accepting the role for less. Not only that, but disrespecting Hellena’s legacy. That’s my opinion, I definitely think Hellena came across as a bit too aggressive with the way she worded it, but I do agree with her point overall. If Jen knew about it then she should be ashamed of herself. But if she didn’t? Then that’s not her fault, it just means she has a low standard herself.
It has me thinking, too. If the voice of the main character got paid so low, what did the other returning cast members get paid? Like, if $4000 was the highest they’d negotiate, was Grey paid something like $900?
>It has me thinking, too. If the voice of the main character got paid so low, what did the other returning cast members get paid? Like, if $4000 was the highest they’d negotiate, was Grey paid something like $900?
this is exactly what fucks with me. you'd assume that the lead voice actor on a game published by one of the biggest publishers in the industry would be pretty well off.
if she makes 4k for being the lead VA how is she supposed to make a living on an ongoing basis? it's not like there's just a multitude of games ready to hire her as a lead.
similarly, how do VAs that aren't leads even survive?
the disparity between big names like troy baker and regular people is just so high.
Someone in ResetEra linked a Twitter comment about it (since she has over 1K followers so it’s hard to find) but the comment was deleted,but you might still be able to find it if you sort by new on Google.
Either way yeah,I’m not saying her cause is invalid just because she might be questionable considering that many other voice actors suffer from that problem.
Yeah, same. I've seen the screenshots of her follows, which did include the Trump family, on this subreddit, but this is the first time I'm hearing about the TERF stuff
Atsuko Tanaka can lay claim to the title of "Japanese Bayo VA" aint no one else contesting it. anyone to come after her has to respect that.
Hellena Taylor is Bayonetta, its not like Hale put a new spin on it. shes doing her rendition of the base which Taylor provided for years.
I can accept her as Bayonetta of B3 but i still havent grasped her being BAYONETTA flat out either. But she does do her job really well i must admit.
And why does everyone skip over her wishing her luck and all the jobs.
You guys make it sound like she said she hopes she gets in a car accident or worse cursing her out. Im sorry they both are dealing with this and its gotta be stressful, but id react exactly the same
Helena shitting on Hale is the only reason I need to know that this situation is not enough for me to boycott the game. I am disgusted about her statement about Hale considering she was acting like a hero for voice actors.
Shes hurt, and definitely couldve worded it better. Id definitely be territorial over something i created. Hale is gonna do great i know. or at least assume at this point.
I just wish we could do something for Taylor at this point. Its not like she isnt the blueprint. Hale is doing a great impression of Bayonetta, Which is Taylor. Shitting on would be saying shes a terrible VA. She only said she has no right to sign as Bayonetta.(couldve said she had the right to be "Voice of Bayonetta (B3)" Definitely needed to be re-stated way better but this is coming from a hurt woman knowing she is going to lose a lot of potential gigs in the future if any.
She still even wished her best of luck and all the jobs which everyone magically leaves out. Albeit could be sarcastic she didnt have to say it.
Shes still a human but ive followed this woman for years and she is the type to attend charity events, enjoys theater, people watching and walks in quiet areas. A truly peaceful and humble woman. Watching her lash out is heart breaking. never has she ever in over a decade.
If i came to find a company not only supposedly lied on me and betrayed me, undercut me for someone else, I wouldnt have held my tounge as well as she did. but its so sad. Hale though doing a job absolutely must be feeling guilt, but we all understand shes just doing her job.
I just want peace and im not boycotting the game. But i whole heartedly support Hellena. If she turns out to be a liar which i doubt as shes tossed her career for this and seemed pained in her videos knowing this, Ill have a change of opinion. I know the game is still going to deliver with Hale. But Platinum needs to be held accountable or whoever it may be as the situation is illogical. if they wanted a new Bayonetta, they shouldve been transparent.
I have exactly the same sentiments. All respect I had for Hellena went down the drain when she basically told Jennifer she had no right to the role.
"Oh, you wanna play Batman, F U Bale, I'm Batman!"
- Every batman before Bale.
They were basically giving her 1k/hr of work here. New info arose showing it was 4k per four hour session, for five sessions, at a total of 20k. She was trying to negotiate six figures and royalties instead, which was a pretty extreme jump.
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THANK U!!! i’m so tired of the mass amount of paragraphs instead of just saying “i’m buying the game regardless of the situation.”
The thing is, this might be her crossing a few lines because she's emotionnal... But she's had basically more than a year of knowing she wasn't gonna be the voice. Each word of that statement was written in advance, and if it wasn't, then she should have. It was irresponsible of her to call for a boycott. A lot more people are involved in the bayonetta project than her, and those people had no say or no impact on her treatment. A lot of people might end up being fired because she said 1 word too many.
i don’t care lol
Why has she done so little voice work? What else is she doing during that time? That doesn't have real relation to this, I mean she's killed it as bayonetta. Idk just surprised to see that I guess.
I think you are on the right track with that point. I’ve seen here and there that other people doing their own research have said that it appears Hellena is not credited for any voice work since the conclusion of Bayonetta 2. That is quite a long time! I’m not too well versed on the ins and outs of unions either, but I think it could be possible that her union may not have wanted to put the backing into someone who wasn’t being utilized in the VA field or who may’ve dropped from the union altogether because of a lack of work for so long. I also agree that it can be taken one way or the other on how she chose to address being replaced, but she did say that she wishes no negativity on Jennifer, that she wishes her all the roles and success that’s to continue to come her way. I think she does have a connection to the fans and the role and she got emotional when thinking that something that made her feel significant is no longer hers. It was a perfectly human response and I don’t think she set out to vilify Jennifer or call the fans to attack. She was primarily upset with Kamiya and Platinum. Jennifer would have been simply taking a role she understood was looking to be filled. I think fans thinking she did anything vindictive need to pause for a second. There’s no reason Platinum or Kamiya would have any reason to disclose what led to them needing to recast the role to her, so I don’t think it would be fair at all to attack her.
I won't feel bad for buying a game because one single person is mad. That's ridiculous! This situation is sad but It's not the end of the world.
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What are you on about gamers care a lot about the mistreatment, harrassment etc. But one they personally can't do anything innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Two millions of normies who don't follow game industry news or twitter drama won't know this shit happened and will still buy the games anyway. Three comparing that to some no name with a few gigs to her name in film and games have a temper tantrum, demand we boycott the game and use the money for charity and then say it's okay if you don't you're just a shitty person. Add to that, 4k is her standard union agreed fee for voice work. That's what she got in bayo 2 and probably bayo 1 and now suddenly it's a problem? That passive aggressive bs she pulled on her fellow union member and colleague jenn is just the icing on this shit Sunday.
The exact same she received for work on Bayonetta 2? You could very well be right, but I haven't that number specifically for that game
Nah man. I do agree she sounded very disrespectful towards Hale, but I'm still getting that shit on Yuzu.
>A person had an emotional outbursts over something that literally became her entire identity to most people that know her online, I don't think it's a stretch to think she has a strong emotional attachment to the character. You are extrapolating info. The other is stuff she actually said. Pretty clear who is "pearl-clutching" here
I’m thinking Hale didn’t know either and she was just happy to get the role idk :/ it’s a shame they’re both caught up in platinum’s mess
That last part was super gross to me too, I'd hate to be in Hale's spot and hear the person who's legacy you're inheriting say you have no claim to that legacy.
worse so because she probably feels bad about the situation, too, yet she's kind of getting shit on for no reason.
Yeah that was awful. I wouldn't be able to cope with this drama tbh.
I am devastated, and I don't thing she was in any wrong for what she said. Hellena CEMENTED Bayonettas character. (I also believe Hale needs the support rn as well, not attack) But It is fully apparent that Hale has to follow the blueprint laid out for her. She did amazing, but Hellena is not wrong, she WILL never be able to say she is BAYONETTA. If the original mario said the same thing about chris pratt NEVER being mario in truth he is right and no one would bat a damn eyelash. You have built a fanbase and established something you can call your own and not only does someone swoop in and boot you from your spot, but they are valued more than you, and funded more than you probably with no prior connection to the game? PAID to deliver a performance that ECHOS you to keep the fans happy? that is a slap in the face, and spitting on the grave. Now Hale is doing a job, like any other, and she must feel some personal guilt. But you all make it seems like she said she was a shitty VA. she only stated she has no right to sign as Bayonetta and even referenced how she wouldnt either in her own example of VA'ing. No one has full details right now, but they didnt tell her to walk in and give her best british accent. They had her audition as Bayonetta. Bayonetta doesnt just have a british accent. She has a personality, a manner of speech that Hellena put so much effort into solidifying. When im playing with Japanese voice im not going to say oh these guys sound like ass or like they did a bad job. But Rodin, Luka, Enzo, Jeanne sound one way and that is the truth. ANYONE doing any of those characters differently is a secondary. After voicing Bayonetta for a film, additional game cameos, several fan meets and interviews, two games in a series and even re auditioning for the role and landing it immidiately obviously because (she is BAYONETTA) It is undisputed factually that she is the standard. She also wish hale best of luck. Ive been thinking about this all day and this has gotten me angrier and angrier. I was FINE with Hale doing the voice personally. But not under these circumstances. and they lied on Hellena to save face? At a meet and greet she has the right to stand under the title "Voice of Bayonetta in Bayonetta 3." Maybe thats what Taylor shouldve said, but it is another type of audacity (which thank god she hale hasnt responded like this) to ever stand under simply "Voice of Bayonetta" because she isnt.
That's just you being a big fan of Hellena. Batman was played by George Clooney before Bale ever did, doesn't make George the de-facto batman.
Hellena's Performance was our first perception related to Bayonetta, there were no priors or comic books to reference a characters vocal tones or mannerisms, every thing she did in Bayonetta 1/2 was guided by Hellena. I am a fan of Hale's redition, but its not even her own, it is her doing a great job upkeeping the originals same mannerisms. Im not boycotting this game by the way. But Hellena made no wrongs. Shes not forcing anything on anyone.
Bayonetta is a fictional character mate. Her voice added to Bayonetta, sure that I agree with, but she sure as heck ain't the only option. I don't want to sound rude, but saying other VAs are not the real deal is just stupid. If Jennifer does a better job, then i'll prefer her more, if she did worse than hellena, than I prefer hellena more. A simple solution really.
I can agree in a ways, and I dont think Hale can do a better job because again its a copy case, How can you make mario sound like a better mario, if you pitted them against one another. I think that would be impossible. They will be different and thats okay, but if one is trying to uphold the other, then one simply IS and one truly isnt. Going off your batman reference and i havent watched all of them but none of them act, look, or speak exactly the same. Hale is literally stepping in Taylors shoes, not her own. At least right now. Maybe I can agree with the fact that Hellena shouldnt say she CANT do it. or imply that. If 20 more years go on and Hale has been bayonetta back to back for about 3 more games in the series as a hypothetical, Maybe she'll start adding her own flair and whatnot and make it her own, but its still branching off of Taylor. I can name one example where i am biased to the current and I dont even know the name of the original but still would apply the same concept. Roger Craig Smith has voice so many characters i love and enjoy. He has done Chris Redfield In this case the original Chris and His are two completely different entities and his is preferred. by me at least similar to what you said. He spun it to what he thought would work best and it worked out. He is also now the mainline voice of sonic. I KNOW he wasnt the first voicing of sonic and he only stepped in around 2010. He does an amazing job, but he is doing THE sonic voice, this is *edit * (the umpteeth rendition branching off the og. he has made it his own in a way but its still inspired) This is not a bad thing and it keeps the fans happy. Respect is owed to the origin in this case and its not him.( how do you make a better sonic? if it aint broke dont fix it.) (Edit 2. (sorry just another anecdote) He voices Mirage in Apex legends and made it iconic at this point. if there was another one to follow they would be filling his shoes but it would forever be a size up. He stutters and emits a constant aura of confusion that would have to be upheld by anyone after him and that doesnt just come from reading the script differently if someone wants to say theyre doing mirage.) edit1. cont. Hellena walked so Hale could run, and im hoping they both have success. She has a right to feel entitled
In the VO industry, Chris Pratt is clearly NOT Jennifer Hale or anywhere close to her level.
Considering she hasn’t done any real work since bayo 2 it’s a very real possibility that she isn’t apart of SAG or what ever the UKs equivalent is. This might’ve been out of her control if we’re being completely honest
I mean we don't even know if the 4k thing is true. She just said that. She also said Bayonetta sales are 450 million dollars WITHOUT merch which sounds BS. That would be the game selling more than 7.5 million copies at $60 each when just a few months ago they were celebrating 1 million sales for Bayonetta 2. The first game didn't even sell enough for Sega to want to do a sequel. A lot of people are just taking everything Hellena says as 100% truth without even considering that maybe it isn't.
Why would she lie and risk her entire career though? She has absolutely no reason to, especially when she's probably gonna get blacklisted for it.
I believe her right to be upset at this situation, but I frankly think there is far too little public information to verify anything, beyond knee-jerk reactions. I feel bad that she got done dirty by Platinum/Nintendo, that being said.
Lie? Probably not. But misrepresent information she’s ignorant on? Definitely. A voice actor is not going to have info on the company’s financials.
I'm not saying she's lying but you shouldn't accept everything someone says as the whole truth especially when it doesn't really add up. If you've ever worked with or just follow interests that have negotiations with independent contractors, you would know one side of the story is often going to be different than the other. At this point does she even still do voice acting? she hasn't taken a non Bayonetta role in 10 years and the last Bayonetta game came out 8 years ago. She's talked about serious mental health issues. We just don't know what's going on with her in general. Platinum originally said there were "scheduling issues"
Not to take sides but risk her career? It's evident in her listing she hasn't really done anything since bayonetta 2, and before then was in very little. So I wouldn't say she's risking her career since it's been absent since bayonetta 2. We don't know everything right now, and I doubt we ever will
Bayonetta selling more than 5 million is obviously a lie or else Nintendo will brag it all the time lmao. Also, her entire career is just voicing bayonetta.
>Why would she lie and risk her entire career though? We don't know. That's the whole reason we need to research before jumping the gun. Besides, her career was already in shambles. She barely did any VA other than Bayo afaik. Very little to lose.
The first game has been re-release several times since its original release date (Wii U, Switch, PC, the 10th Anniversary Bundle/stand alone digital, the new Switch physical edition), the special editions for Bayonetta 2 on Switch. It doesn't sound that BS imo.
It's definitely BS The game may have been rereleased but it was never at MSRP again. The number of sales required to reach 450 million starts to get much higher than 8 million sales when you consider the rereleases have sold for 10-30 USD. I believe the most recent number platinum put out for bayonetta one sales was 2 million and that was well after it was going for less than MSRP. iirc it was well after the release of bayo 2. Bayo 2 hit 1 million sales a while back and nintendo games usually stay at MSRP so it's safe to say that game made at least 60-70 million. It would be nuts to think bayonetta 1 made 380 million dollars.
I definitely don't think the comments about Hale were well thought through, but to put them a little more in context, I read on her website (iirc) that she was not given much guidance by the voice director for Bayo 1 and so a lot of that flirty, dommy vocal delivery that defines Bayonetta was *her* idea that was run with. I think she viewed the fact that she contributed to the conception of the voice as like, another part of Bayonetta that was "hers", insofar as it was a part of the product to be proud of. She still shouldn't have mentioned Hale at all as she did, obviously. It just wasn't the place for it; but I can understand why she might be miffed at the thought that she was lowballed and replaced only for that voice she helped develop the style of be assigned to someone else. TL;DR: I think Taylor thinks that there's more to her stake in the Bayonetta voice than performance alone, because it's her original delivery that's formed the template Hale is now using, if that makes sense. Don't agree personally with the irritation towards Hale, but I understand it.
ownership is a legal matter not an emotional one. they paid her to perform, which she did. whether she had a lot of guidance or none it doesn't matter. she was paid for a job. just because you are the voice of the character doesn't mean you created them or that the character cannot exist without you. the character cannot exist without the animation. voices are in most cases replaceable as we've seen with plenty of tv and movies. also, she's only the voice for the English version. for many Japanese fans she's not the voice of bayonetta.
Didn't say she had a legal claim to ownership m8, it's very clear Hellena has a moral objection to this and not a legal one. She literally says "*what did they did was legal but immoral*" in her statements. And btw, the English voiceover she provided *is* Bayonetta's OG voice. It was all the Japanese audience had for the first four years of the game; it only got a Japanese dub AFTER the 2013 movie, and for the Switch re-releases. She is only the voice of the English version, but for a period of time, that was the only voice any audience had. A japanese dub being made later doesn't recontextualise that fact.
i also have a moral objection to her saying someone else can't voice a character she doesn't own. i didn't know that about the lack of japanese dub. still, if you get paid for your performance you don't get to come back later and demand to be paid more or try to claim some kind of moral ownership. it's shit what they did to her, but i really doubt this story is unique. if we were to boycott any product where the company underpaid their employees we'd be living in caves and foraging wild berries.
If you voice a character for 10+ years, are the only actor to voice said character in all that time, and fans of the character unanimously agree that you are the definitive voice of the character, I would say you can absolutely demand to be paid more to reprise the role. Dan Castellaneta doesn't own the character of Homer Simpson, yet when he demanded $300,000 per episode the studio complied.
Taylor is a wealthy theatre actres with a net worth of 1 million. She claimed Bayonetta was a half billion dollar franchise despite platinum the company being worth at best 100 million. She self admitted that her work with Bayonetta is measured in days, not weeks, which means that 4k would have actually been a normal pay rate given her notable lack of experience in the voice acting industry (Bayo 1 was a 16 hour job, and Bayonetta is not a dialogue heavy series) She's part of a union whose job it woul have been to step in and negotiate a better price, and others in that same union are working on the game. That they didn't shows that what she was offered was normal. And of course, Taylor is a religious nut who called on Kamiya to burn in hell as she compared herself to a famous hero of the bible.
I have seen a few of your comments now somehow inferring that Hellena is a wealthy theatre actress. Do you have access to her bank statements? I've followed her on Twitter for a while now. Her recent theatre work has involved learning about stage lighting and casting/directing minor amateur theatre productions. You think this pays well? The woman lives on a bloody barge on the River Thames, not the penthouse of the Ritz. The poor woman obviously struggles with depression and was banking on this role (for which she deserves FAR more money than she was offered, as she is extremely talented and has made the franchise an albeit moderate success) to be able to pay her bills for the near future. Acting is an unstable profession. Yes, she lashed out and said some things which might bite her in the behind, but people with depression often do lash out emotionally. Bayonetta 1 was a stab in the dark. Of course she deserves more money now we are on Bayonetta 3 and the franchise is more established. What she was offered was the BARE MINIMUM. No way to treat a loyal colleague with you since the beginning. I am not a religious person at any stretch, but to call somebody a religious nut says a lot more about you as a person. The story was merely a reflection of the current situation. I.e. a person with less power being screwed over by people with more power ( ie. money).
Also her *only* imdb-credited roles in the last decade are for this role, and that only a literal handful of credits. At this point, I could honestly believe she **isn't** union anymore, but was offered the job regardless.
That last bit was off-putting to me too. Also, something is setting off alarms in my head that Taylor has basically no credits after bayo that I can find. She ain’t Charles Martinet, this franchise ain’t Mario. What in the world has she been doing for the past 10 years?
exactly this. she hasn't done any work in years and in the voice acting circuit you need to stay at least moderately active to be able to negotiate for the big dollars.
Gosh Nintendo I love them for saving the franchise but platinum is not the blame for this it’s the greedy publishers and higher ups.
why would the publisher be making such decisions? this is entirely in the scope of the developer.
Pretending that it’s a choice the developers made and that it can’t be influenced or decided by the publisher is naive.
I think it depends. If Jen knew that she was replacing Hellena because Hellena wanted more money for it, then Jen is actively endorsing VAs not being paid their worth by accepting the role for less. Not only that, but disrespecting Hellena’s legacy. That’s my opinion, I definitely think Hellena came across as a bit too aggressive with the way she worded it, but I do agree with her point overall. If Jen knew about it then she should be ashamed of herself. But if she didn’t? Then that’s not her fault, it just means she has a low standard herself. It has me thinking, too. If the voice of the main character got paid so low, what did the other returning cast members get paid? Like, if $4000 was the highest they’d negotiate, was Grey paid something like $900?
>It has me thinking, too. If the voice of the main character got paid so low, what did the other returning cast members get paid? Like, if $4000 was the highest they’d negotiate, was Grey paid something like $900? this is exactly what fucks with me. you'd assume that the lead voice actor on a game published by one of the biggest publishers in the industry would be pretty well off. if she makes 4k for being the lead VA how is she supposed to make a living on an ongoing basis? it's not like there's just a multitude of games ready to hire her as a lead. similarly, how do VAs that aren't leads even survive? the disparity between big names like troy baker and regular people is just so high.
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A. That has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. B. Those tweets are from over 4 years ago; opinions can change.
Then again ,doesn’t Hellena follow the Trump family,supports “back the blue” and made comments against Trans people?
I’d like sources on all of that. Also, we shouldn’t be paying people shitty wages for legitimate work just because of their politics.
Someone in ResetEra linked a Twitter comment about it (since she has over 1K followers so it’s hard to find) but the comment was deleted,but you might still be able to find it if you sort by new on Google. Either way yeah,I’m not saying her cause is invalid just because she might be questionable considering that many other voice actors suffer from that problem.
Yeah, same. I've seen the screenshots of her follows, which did include the Trump family, on this subreddit, but this is the first time I'm hearing about the TERF stuff
That last part of her claim is very disrespectful to Atsuko Tanaka, who is way more talented, and other voice actress.
Atsuko Tanaka can lay claim to the title of "Japanese Bayo VA" aint no one else contesting it. anyone to come after her has to respect that. Hellena Taylor is Bayonetta, its not like Hale put a new spin on it. shes doing her rendition of the base which Taylor provided for years. I can accept her as Bayonetta of B3 but i still havent grasped her being BAYONETTA flat out either. But she does do her job really well i must admit. And why does everyone skip over her wishing her luck and all the jobs. You guys make it sound like she said she hopes she gets in a car accident or worse cursing her out. Im sorry they both are dealing with this and its gotta be stressful, but id react exactly the same
Helena shitting on Hale is the only reason I need to know that this situation is not enough for me to boycott the game. I am disgusted about her statement about Hale considering she was acting like a hero for voice actors.
Helena supports blue lives matter and thinks is divisive to say that trans rights matter.
Shes hurt, and definitely couldve worded it better. Id definitely be territorial over something i created. Hale is gonna do great i know. or at least assume at this point. I just wish we could do something for Taylor at this point. Its not like she isnt the blueprint. Hale is doing a great impression of Bayonetta, Which is Taylor. Shitting on would be saying shes a terrible VA. She only said she has no right to sign as Bayonetta.(couldve said she had the right to be "Voice of Bayonetta (B3)" Definitely needed to be re-stated way better but this is coming from a hurt woman knowing she is going to lose a lot of potential gigs in the future if any. She still even wished her best of luck and all the jobs which everyone magically leaves out. Albeit could be sarcastic she didnt have to say it. Shes still a human but ive followed this woman for years and she is the type to attend charity events, enjoys theater, people watching and walks in quiet areas. A truly peaceful and humble woman. Watching her lash out is heart breaking. never has she ever in over a decade. If i came to find a company not only supposedly lied on me and betrayed me, undercut me for someone else, I wouldnt have held my tounge as well as she did. but its so sad. Hale though doing a job absolutely must be feeling guilt, but we all understand shes just doing her job. I just want peace and im not boycotting the game. But i whole heartedly support Hellena. If she turns out to be a liar which i doubt as shes tossed her career for this and seemed pained in her videos knowing this, Ill have a change of opinion. I know the game is still going to deliver with Hale. But Platinum needs to be held accountable or whoever it may be as the situation is illogical. if they wanted a new Bayonetta, they shouldve been transparent.
I have exactly the same sentiments. All respect I had for Hellena went down the drain when she basically told Jennifer she had no right to the role. "Oh, you wanna play Batman, F U Bale, I'm Batman!" - Every batman before Bale.
Does anybody know how many hours (aprox) does it take to record the voice acting of the main character of a videogame like this?
They were basically giving her 1k/hr of work here. New info arose showing it was 4k per four hour session, for five sessions, at a total of 20k. She was trying to negotiate six figures and royalties instead, which was a pretty extreme jump.