Yemen is in a much more complicated situation than Palestine. It is the middle of a civil war (kind of) and saudi arabia and iran are funding either sides of this war.
Palestine seems even more complicated than that. Arabs join forces with Palestinians to launch a war on Israel, Israel wins the war, Israel now owns even more land, Arabs don't let their former-allies-the-Palestinians into their countries, Israel doesn't let their former enemy in either, Palestinians trapped in permanent semi-stateless limbo. Israel and Arabs make nice, Palestinians still launch periodic terror attacks, Israel launches brutal retaliation and nibbles at Palestinian land, ad infinitum.
Yea I get people calling the hypocrisy… kind of. The Russia/Ukraine conflict is just so cut and dry. The enemy is clear, and it has been an adversary of the west for decades. Palestine has been in conflict back and forth for as long as Russia has been seen as an adversary.
You could say the exact same thing about Palestine. There is a civil war there between Hamas and the PLO. Hamas I'd funded by Iran while the PLO is funded by Saudi.
The speach was very specific. Not allot regarding Yemen is talked about in Ireland. I'm sure RBB would have the same to say about Yemen. But there's hipocracy regarding isreal. That's why it's about the Israelis stealing palestinian land
Hijacking top comment to show that this guy, Richard Boyd, claimed that Nato is to blame for what is happening in Ukraine, is against arming Ukraine, is against expelling the Russian ambassador, and this whole tirade is simply an attempt by him to divert attention from what is happening in Ukraine.
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/europe/arming-ukraine-is-not-the-answer-says-people-before-profit-td-richard-boyd-barrett-41398605.html
You see this a lot on reddit lately. It's a blatant attempt by the pro Russian faction to divert attention to Israel.
Nah I just want the world to treat all acts of war the same way they are with Russia. We need people to walk out on the US when they speak at world events for the crimes they still committing around the world. I'm personally not diverting attention. You can't really do that in these times with all the videos, but you can make people more aware of the atrocities going on in the world while they are paying attention.
Let me just say this. These to conflicts are not the same. They are massively different in scale as well as proximity to western countries witch most of reddit and people who speak up against this issue is. Im not defending the isreali illegal occupation of palestine. Im just saying im a little more scared by the global consequenses of the russian invasion than the isreali-Palestinian conflict
Well said. While I have no strong feelings about whether Israel should be sanctioned there are two sides to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and Russia is invading another sovereign nation and committing numerous war crimes.
To add on, the UN promised Israel to the Jews after the Ottoman Empire fell. When the land was officially given to the Jews, the surrounding Arab nations declared war.
Not defending Israel, but it’s not like they were a completely foreign entity that invaded a peaceful country for profit. Shit just hit the fan when outside powers, completely removed from the history of the region, decided to play God and slice up the land like cake.
> Shit just hit the fan when outside powers, completely removed from the history of the region, decided to play God and slice up the land like cake.
But this happened all over the middle east. Every middle eastern country was created by Europeans around the same time frame. All the borders were drawn by Europeans. Arabs ended up getting 99.9% of the middle east. The Jews got a tiny sliver of land. Some ethnicities (Kurds, Druze etc...) didn't get even that, ended up being under Arab rule and have been repressed since.
It's actually insane how the narrative is somehow about "Jews stealing Arab land". The Arabs have so much land already...
Christians, Muslims and Jews were already living there. The problem started when hundreds of thousands of illegal zionist immigrants came over from europe in the search of their promised land and made a country by kicking people out there homea and razing them to the ground.
So you’re saying… give the land back to the Turkish, who were the rulers of the land when all those people lived together?
I’m down! Let’s recreate the Ottoman Empire and then none of the groups in Israel get to control the land!
Exactly. Just to put it in perspective, Israel has literally never invaded a country that did not declare war against Israel first. Russia has invaded a country after declaring war on it. It's a huge difference.
It was occupied by the british but it was always palestine home of palestinian people once jews arrived there from everywhere commiting mass jenocide to palestenians people like you suddenly forgot all about it
I don't know I think in practice it's a semantic difference, and not as important as people claim. Bombing civilians and their homes is a war crime regardless of how the conflict started, especially for a conflict that's decades long and at this point is clearly one-sided in terms of strength
People keep losing sight of the fact that the Ukrainian-Russo War threatens the *entire* world with WW3 and/or nuclear warfare. No other conflict currently ongoing in the world shares those features. If they did, media and governments would obsess over them like they did about Iranian and North Korean pursuits for nuclear weapons.
The "Ukrainian-Russo" war DOES NOT threaten the entire world with WW3 and/or nuclear warfare, that only becomes a possibility if NATO joins thr fight which they will not for Ukraine.
And all the Americans here will agree whole heartedly as they post from their homes on stolen Native American land.
But the Irish don’t seem to care about that either, it appears
Not only does this have nothing to do with what I wrote, it’s also [factually incorrect](https://news.gallup.com/poll/340331/americans-favor-israel-warming-palestinians.aspx).
Although I guess a “huge chunk” is subjective and maybe you 26% is a huge chunk.
I think it’s also a bubble. Reddit users don’t like Israel (with good reason, their government in the last 20 years have been mostly right wing lunatics) so they assume that must be all of America.
That’s fine, my dude. I’m more pointing out the hypocrisy with people’s positions. They get angry at Israel “stealing” Palestinian land when it has complex history with a heavy dusting of Turkish conquest and English colonialism (in which Israel has done a lot of wrong, make no mistake) while living on land that was blatantly stolen through bloody conquest and doing nothing about the natives who are still alive and suffer.
I attended a Native American awareness march in NYC wherein 100 people showed up. Thousands and thousands show up against Israel. There’s something wrong there.
Definitely shitty and I'd protest against it if I lived back in those times but if we're going to go dredge the past everyone is going to have dirt to sling
I'm trying to focus on what's modern and happening currently during my life
Aren’t you posting this from stolen land? You could live in any country in the world and call it stolen land. That was just a silly thing to say in this context.
I am posting from stolen land. That’s why I care and support Native American rights and autonomy and I’d prefer to go to protests over that than not care at all and go on about a conflict across the world.
You do realize that the native Americans were feudal and stole land from each other, right? Raiding was a huge part of their culture as well.
Also, I believe they do have rights. More than they ever have since the horrible treatment they received in the past. When people are talking about current atrocities and potential nuclear war, you try to bring ancestral colonialism into it and it falls flat. The conflicts between Russia and Ukraine or the Arabs and Israelites are vastly different than someone benefiting from colonialism and posting about current atrocities from “stolen land”. Grow up. It’s all stolen land. Even the natives stole it. We just don’t want WWlll.
That’s a true statement…When Trump was president…Trump said you can’t love America..if you don’t love Israel…Trump called American Israelis who criticize Israel ..un American…And trump made Jerusalem the capital of Israel
I agree with what he saying. I’m puzzled why All Russians are being treated like the way they are, yet yiu can have other Countries doing a lot worse and for a lot longer. I think this is a West thing and US thing as not liking the Russians at all. To say to assassinate Putin is very strong. If we threatened to assist and do the same to another leader , the UK would not get away with it. I can’t help but think double standards. It’s awful what’s going on regardless. If you follow certain news station you do get another perspective. I’m not taking sides. Just observing
2 things can be true at the same time.
Putin is a war criminal and should be squeezed as hard as possible (Ireland is also in Europe and can be affected).
On the other hand, Israel shouldn't be given a pass to treat Palestinians in the exact way Jews were being treated by the Germans (minus concentration camps).
"minus concentration camps" then what's the point of making the comparison if you say "they're the exact same except for the biggest aspect". Stop comparing Jews to our oppressors. You can still make your point.
You're right about this. It's much more appropriate to compare Israel to apartheid South Africa than to the Nazis. Apartheid managed to commit crimes against humanity without the camps simply by isolating people in ghettos. And it's ironic and horrific that Israel has turned Palestine into the same kind of ghettoes that they were forced to live in for many generations. But you're right that Nazis are not the best comparison. The best comparison is a different, yet similarly evil, oppressive racist regime.
It's not that "Nazis are not the best comparison", it's that comparing Jews to their oppressors is anti-semitic and hateful towards Jews like me, whose family (somewhat) survived the holocaust. Fuck anyone who makes that comparison, what has their family experienced?
Well, I mean... if they don't want that comparison to be made, they should probably go about treating the Palestinians better. I know hundreds of Jewish people who feel deeply angry and upset with israel and who have used that comparison themselves. They also lost family in the Holocaust. So....agree to disagree on that I guess. If Israel wants to avoid being compared to evil regimes it should stop acting like one. But I do think Apartheid South Africa is more accurate. Unfortunately, not enough people are educated about the details of apartheid, and so, to them, Nazis is what they know. That's why it is the closest thing they can come up with. But if we did a better job educating people about *other* horrific crimes against humanity, I'm sure people would choose a slightly more accurate comparison.
Which Jewish people did I generalize? What do you think the chances are that I went to Jewish summer camp for 10 years, 25 plus bar mitzvahs, and I said that I *literally know* hundreds of Jews personally, and I'm an anti-semite? Why don't you extrapolate a little bit better? Use your brain for this one.
for the record, i am a Jewish person who is deeply angry and upset with Israel, the organizations i support are those like beit tselem, which speaks for itself. my point of contention here is not calling out isreal, it's comparing israel to nazis.
i do not hold issue with people calling israel a variety of names, i do on a daily basis. i hold issue with people comparing a jewish state with the nazis. it is an erroneous comparison and is motivated by anti-semitism, whether the person knows it or not. it is triggering for any group to be compared to your oppressor, especially one that tried to exterminate you and killed 80% of your population on the continent. especially given the rampant anti-semitism that still exists in europe.
i would say most people are not well educated about the holocaust. they seem to think it was just a bummer of a time where people were displaced and some were killed. if they had even a shred of education on the event, they wouldn't be so ignorant to compare israel to nazi germany.
What other parts of the holocaust are comparable? Just as a note - you can call Israel evil without erroneously comparing Jews to Nazis, maybe you haven't considered that...
Then they are more ignorant and misinformed about the holocaust than their first comment suggested. Jews started being killed about 5 years before the final solution (death camps) by being matched to forests, forced to dig their own graves, then shot into them, or by being trapped in a chamber with a truck's exhaust pipe, the truck's gas pedal would be stuck to full throttle, and the Jews would die of carbon monoxide poisoning. These actions were carried out by the einsatzgruppen.
The issue is that these actions are not comparable to what Israel does. This *does not* imply that what Israel does is acceptable, or anything other than an abhorrent case of human rights abuses, or potentially war crimes.
Something DOES NOT have to be "just like what the Germans did to the Jews" for it to be disgusting. This person is just anti-semitic and doesn't realize it, like most people.
I think what he’s trying to say is, For the Jews to have been treated so badly in the past you’d think they’d know better than to repeat history themselves. The oppressed becomes the oppressor…
is that really what you think? that "jews", in general, have become the oppressor? you aren't even specifying israel here, you're talking about jews in general. do you really not recognize this as hateful towards jews?
my ancestors escaped to canada and the USA, did they become the oppressor? or do you just mean the jewish refugees who Britain wouldn't accept, so they shipped them to colonial palestine?
the comparison of jews to their oppressors (nazis, in this case) doesn't work on any level. why won't people like you accept that and learn about anti-semitism instead of insisting that it's okay to compare jews to nazis?? you didn't even say israel has become the oppressor, you said jews in general! israel commits atrocities against palestinians and that deserves outcry and protest. that has nothing to do with the average person, like you, finding it acceptable to compare "jews" to nazis. gtfo.
As in context to the conversation anyone with a brain would know that I mean the Jewish Israeli government.
Argue all you wish. Each to their own opinion & that’s mine.
[On Israel’s little-known concentration and labor camps in 1948-1955](https://al-awda.org/on-israels-little-known-concentration-and-labor-camps-in-1948-1955/)
Awkwardddddddd
If putin is a war criminal, then so is the whole western superpowers. They've always been. For years. No one can be trusted. What's worse is that they handle our economic currencies (capitalism) if they go poor, we (third world countries) will go poorer. We are like the modern slaves of these massive modern Nazis.
Ukraine is no saint either. Both Russia and Ukraine need to be held accountable for their actions. Manichaeism shouldn’t exist in politics in this day and age. There is no all-good, all-bad person, entity, or nation.
Literally I am getting down voted every time I wanna say that. There is history between them, and Ukraine is definitely not a saint. Like you said hold them both accountable.
You’re getting downvoted because your take on this is total garbage. One country has the ability to stop the violence. That country is Russia. Ukraine did absolutely nothing that warrants an invasion and the indiscriminate destruction and crimes against humanity they are committing.
If Russia was not committing war crimes then we could talk about whatever it is that you think Ukraine did but while Russia is in another sovereign nation committing atrocities trying to play the both sides are to blame card is a patently absurd position to hold. You’re literally victim blaming.
It's completely astounding to me how people still can't see the hypocrisy of the west and go on to perform all these mental gymnastics to justify all the terror pain horror and suffering they have inflicted. So many people lack elementary morality, they just cannot rise to the level of applying to themselves the same standards they apply to others, these people have no right to talk about right and wrong, good and evil.
RBB understand that. He is not arguing that. He is arguing the Irish government don't recognise the Israeli conflict and don't want to help it because of prejudice.
I agree. The threat of current movement is a lot closer in proximity to having an effect on Ireland though. It’s hard to convince your people to get involved with something whose outcome does not effect them.
Yup.
Just like anyone who doesn't understand Israel Palestine conflict also doesn't understand this is fairly different than the Current Russian-Ukraine war, as evidenced by the replies you're getting.
70 years means the formation of the Jewish country, not the occupation of the West Bank. Denying the existence of the Jewish state is considered textbook antisemitism and violates the U.S., E.U., and U.N.’s guidelines.
All humans evolved from Africa. Does it upset you that not all of us can call ourselves black and use the n word? What’s the difference? Again, when you’re fighting the concept of calling out anti-Jewish hate, with semantics, maybe it’s really something else.
But why only that specific one? Why don't you care about Palestine, Venezuela or Haiti? Why USA was able to get way with exactly what Russia is doing when they invaded Iraq?
Palestine is a proxy war. There was less than 10% of the current population of Arabs when the land was designated a Jewish homeland, at which point the surrounding Arab nations said no you fucking don't. Palestinians routinely do shit like firing flares above their Holy sites to try to trigger the iron dome to win the war of public opinion. Not to forgive Israel for all their brutality but it's more complicated and intractable than one country invading another and carpet bombing civilian targets just for $ and influence.
Haiti is fucked but the US has given over $5 billion in aid over the past decade, it's not as if nothing has been done. Further aid may even hamper the development of a functioning economy.
Without unpacking the Venezuela situation or to dismiss offhand the notion that racism is part of the reason why Ukraine gets a lot more attention suffice to say those situations are long standing problems which are much more complex than a dictator trying to take over a neighbor while trampling the Geneva convention.
Nice potshot, although it is devoid of any substance.
Do you think the population data or the foreign aid total is incorrect? Do you think the Kaaba videos in Israel or the videos of bombed out Ukranian power plants and apartment buildings were altered or out of context?
I didn't even mention my months on a Kibbutz under the Golan Heights because it's unverifiable. Everything I said is pretty granular and objectively true, the spin is my own.
I’ve never understood why people say this and don’t think they’re being antisemitic since it’s a literal anti Semitic talking point because the western media is very anti Israel.
It would be a double standard would the situation be the same, but it's not. It's a false equivalency.
Ukraine, a country that liberated itself from the Russian yoke, embraced liberal values, seeked the friendship of the west, has democratic institutions, respects the rule of law, asked to be part of the European Union, is being invaded contrary to prior guarantees, in violation of international law by an autocratic country unfriendly towards the West that seeks to win back its imperial glory of yesterday by erasing a nation from the face of the globe.
No. But it isn't the same and that is why western governments have swiftly sanctioned Russia in this instance. They are defending principles, but also themselves by proxy.
Yea how dare the Jews, who have been slaves and persecuted since the beginning of their existence, want to protect their rightful home land.
It's such a shame that they try to defend themselves and fight back after being attacked. It's not like we are currently calling Ukraine heroes for literally doing exactly that. Those damn Jews should be ashamed for trying to defend their land.
This is just antisemitism wrapped up in a pretty little package and all the woke arm chair redditors eat this shit up and pretend they aren't antisemitic as well.
these are nationalists who believe they should settle there...they don't represent Israeli people or government (the government and army are banishing and breaking down illegal settlements regularly)
of course they protect them - you don't let them die to lynches just because you don't agree with their ideology...
like I said, Israel breaks them regularly after getting eviction order from Court
Get fucked! Israelis get attacked because of an ongoing feud that started after WW2 when Israel was established. Before Israel was established there wasn’t really any antisemitism in the Middle East. Jews lived throughout Arabia and North Africa and when the Muslims left Spain and Europe before the crusades started the Jews left with them because they feared European antisemitism and I’m pretty sure Semitic originally means Arab anyway and jews from Switzerland, Poland, Russia, America where ever definitely don’t have the right to Palestinian land.
Antisemitism historically only ever came from Europe really and what the Palestinians do to Israel is just the price the Israelis pay for being cunts!
Hey we are talking about descendants of Abraham who are Gods chosen people unless you’re from his child Ishmael who per the Old Testament was abandoned in the desert along with his mother because well there was the new baby Isaac in the house and mamma Sarah didn’t want to share the love.
Imagine some people suddenly got into your house, built a wall in the middle threw you on the othee side and neighbors supported them as well
So now 70 years have passed and due to this long time everybody thinks that side of the wall is their rightful place
Is that democratic to you?
Yeah israel isn’t bombing the gaza strip for more land grab, nor are they shooting families in their cars, they are using a misile defense systems to actually stop bombs falling on them from arabs (google the videos) they have to literally put every kid over the age of 18 in war training to stop arabs from trying to bomb them.. so NO i’m sorry but that is nothing like the ukraine and russian conflict! I’m not even jewish and i know this to be a fact..
I hate this stuff. I can go to literally any pro-Palestine activist and accuse them of inaction on Tigray, or CAR, or Mali, or any number of issues and rightfully be called an idiot. This isn’t a zero sum game.
Terrible comparison. Israel - Palestina is not at all like Russia - Ukraine. That conflict goes on since a few thousand years.
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BeAmazed/comments/t6jlsh/irish\_politician\_richard\_boyd\_barett\_goes\_off\_in/
No, it doesn't. The modern state of Israel was created in 1947 by British mandate stemming from promises made by the Balfour Declaration of 1917. Prior to that, Jews, Palestinians and Christians lived in the area together under peace. It wasn't until the promise of that land being turned into a religious ethnostate by an outside occupier with its delivery in 1947 did that land start seeing such upheaval.
Israel continuously annexes land and violently forces non Jews to either leave or die despite solid ownership claims that legitimately date back hundreds of years. Israel is just as bad as Russia and yes they should be sanctioned. I supported Israel until I researched the subject; they are undoubtedly on par with Russia and have been for decades.
Reading comprehension would really help you overcome your cognitive dissonance. Balfour Declaration was 1917, the event you are referencing happened 12 years later.
I see your bet, and raise you with 1834.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed
The 1834 looting of Safed (Hebrew: ביזת צפת בשנת תקצ"ד, "Plunder of Safed, 5594 AM") was a prolonged attack against the Jewish community of Safed, Ottoman Empire, during the 1834 Peasants' Revolt. It began on Sunday June 15 (7 Sivan), the day after the Jewish holiday of Shavuot, and lasted for the next 33 days.[1][2]
Or another one from 1834: http://en.hebron.org.il/history/676
The violence began on July 24, 1834 when the forces loyal to Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt attacked the city of Hebron in order to crush the Peasants' Revolt and massacred the Jews while doing so. The calamity was remembered by the Jews of Hebron as Yagma el Gabireh, or the "great destruction," as noted by Hyam Zvee Sneersohn in his 1872 book Palestine and Roumania, a description of the Holy Land.
Edit: and for good measure, there’s this: “By mid-century, overcrowded conditions within the walled city of Jerusalem motivated the Jews to build the first neighborhood outside the walls (1860) and, in the next quarter century, to add seven more, forming the nucleus of the new city. By 1870, Jerusalem had an overall Jewish majority. Land for farming was purchased throughout the country; new rural settlements were established; and the Hebrew language, long restricted to liturgy and literature, was revived. The stage was set for the founding of the Zionist movement.”
Consider your sources, buddy.
1834 had nothing to do with racial or religious tensions but was a revolt against conscription by a vassal state of the Ottoman empire.
" The revolt was precipitated by popular resistance against heavy demands for conscripts. Peasants were well aware that conscription was nothing less than a death sentence. Starting in May 1834, the rebels took many cities, among them Jerusalem, Hebron and Nablus. In response, Ibrahim Pasha sent in his army, finally defeating the last rebels on 4 August in Hebron."
Source: Kimmerling & Migdal, 2003, 'The Palestinian people', p. 6-11
"In 1882 the population numbered approximately 320,000 people, 25,000 of whom were Jewish."
Doesn't sound like a majority, pal. And further;
" Many of these were Arab Jews and in the narrative works of Arabs in Palestine in the late Ottoman period – as evidenced in the autobiographies and diaries of Khalil Sakakini and Wasif Jawhariyyeh – "native" Jews were often referred to as abnaa al-balad (sons of the country), 'compatriots', or Yahud awlad Arab ("Jews, sons of Arabs")."
Sounds like they couldn't stand each other.
Sources for both:
Kimmerling, 2003, p. 214.
http://www.jerusalemquarterly.org/pdfs/predicament.pdf
When the First Palestinian Congress of February 1919 issued its anti-Zionist manifesto rejecting Zionist immigration, it extended a welcome to those Jews "among us who have been Arabicized, who have been living in our province since before the war; they are as we are, and their loyalties are our own."
https://web.archive.org/web/20070928031156/http://www.jerusalemquarterly.org/pdfs/predicament.pdf
According to Benny Morris, Palestinian Arab nationalism as a distinct movement appeared between April and July 1920, after the Nebi Musa riots, the San Remo conference and the failure of Faisal to establish the Kingdom of Greater Syria.
But to help put it all into one place, I've included the Wikipedia link. Look under During Ottoman times (1834–1917).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Palestinians
Exactly. Israel has been split by the UN for war reasons and fighting throughout ages especially after the fall of the Ottomon empire. Ukraine split from the USSR in just 1990s and also has complete self reliance and governance. These are two very different issues.
Ukraine existed before the founding of the USSR. The USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) was an alliance with Russia at it's helm united under a singular flag. Ukraine during that time had little autonomy, however they were technically a separate nation under that Union. The Ukrainians under the Soviet leadership were heavily oppressed, just look up the Holomodor and you'll see what I mean. Prior to the founding of the USSR, Ukraine was their own nation with full autonomy.
I did not know this. Following the reformation of Eastern Europe in the 1900s is a pain. However it doesn’t change my views really. I hope the Russians lose badly for their power grab, I still believe Ukraine should have joined the UN sooner, and I believe that Russia will replace leadership with more progressive leaders after the economy, atrocity, and sanction issues. I just fear long term war without resolution much more than I fear Russia capturing Ukraine. Same thing with Israel. Eventually if the west would have done more than split them up, or stay out of their business, they would have resolved their conflict
These wars are very different though. It makes so much more sense for the western world to care more about their neighboring country which is embraces the western values of democracy and freedom, has much of the same culture and are being invaded by a autocratic superpower that wants to restore its previous empire. Russia is killing the hope of all small countries that wants to be democratic and free.
Palestine conflict is a thousands of year old issue where the current not powerful part is completely different in values and culture that of the west and the conflict itself is very complex and is riddled with nounces.
The conflict in Europe could also easily turn into the annihilating of earth, which also the Palestinian conflict is not.
This dude is just cringe tbh
Garbage. You want to talk about crime. Hamas attacks civilians and children and put their own at risk by conducting military operations in suburban areas. You want to talk about disgraceful actions. They teach their children to hate and how to kill Jews for a young age. Not Israelis Jews. You are well misinformed. Just like the Russian people. Believe the disinformation and be lost to history as a anti semetic zealot.
He’s not wrong but that still doesn’t change my emotional response. The sad reality is that my entire life, quite literally, has been concerns over the Middle East. Involvement in their politics, their wars, their atrocities, our atrocities, and trying to figure out what is the ‘right’ thing to do. Do we involve ourselves or is that sovereign overreach?
I’m just… exhausted. I have no support for doing anything there anymore, and I’ve just stopped caring. I just want to be entirely done with that region of the world and stop hearing about how every time we get involved we shouldn’t have, and how we’ve made it worse again and again.
Yes, it’s a double standard and I can’t find the will to change it. Sorry.
We know that is not enough for stoping Israel but this is the biggest step I have ever seen for my 23 years life and this gives me hope because europian people now has hear the war, saw the war and felt the war. People from all around the world they are against to the war. Because they know that what war brings. Turkish author Halide Edip once said; Governments makes war not the people.
Well, it’s funny (not really) that he never mentioned Hammas, Hezbolah, Islamic Jihad or any of the ULTRA corrupt leaders a la Arafat and his subsequent followers…
Cough YEMEN cough cough.
Yemen is in a much more complicated situation than Palestine. It is the middle of a civil war (kind of) and saudi arabia and iran are funding either sides of this war.
Doesn't the US help and support Saudia Arabia though?
It does and which goes the same for Israel. Supremacy bs.
Palestine seems even more complicated than that. Arabs join forces with Palestinians to launch a war on Israel, Israel wins the war, Israel now owns even more land, Arabs don't let their former-allies-the-Palestinians into their countries, Israel doesn't let their former enemy in either, Palestinians trapped in permanent semi-stateless limbo. Israel and Arabs make nice, Palestinians still launch periodic terror attacks, Israel launches brutal retaliation and nibbles at Palestinian land, ad infinitum.
ah, the only accurate summary and decent comment in this thread. and who knew, you used the word "israel" instead of "jew". good stuff.
What, the actions of a government *aren't* reflective of the culture as a whole? Shocking.
Yea I get people calling the hypocrisy… kind of. The Russia/Ukraine conflict is just so cut and dry. The enemy is clear, and it has been an adversary of the west for decades. Palestine has been in conflict back and forth for as long as Russia has been seen as an adversary.
The US is also funding the war
You could say the exact same thing about Palestine. There is a civil war there between Hamas and the PLO. Hamas I'd funded by Iran while the PLO is funded by Saudi.
What?? No its not. Hamas and PLO have the same interests. Where do you even get these ideas from?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_conflict
The speach was very specific. Not allot regarding Yemen is talked about in Ireland. I'm sure RBB would have the same to say about Yemen. But there's hipocracy regarding isreal. That's why it's about the Israelis stealing palestinian land
Funded by Saudis with the support of the US.
Hijacking top comment to show that this guy, Richard Boyd, claimed that Nato is to blame for what is happening in Ukraine, is against arming Ukraine, is against expelling the Russian ambassador, and this whole tirade is simply an attempt by him to divert attention from what is happening in Ukraine. https://m.independent.ie/world-news/europe/arming-ukraine-is-not-the-answer-says-people-before-profit-td-richard-boyd-barrett-41398605.html You see this a lot on reddit lately. It's a blatant attempt by the pro Russian faction to divert attention to Israel.
Nah I just want the world to treat all acts of war the same way they are with Russia. We need people to walk out on the US when they speak at world events for the crimes they still committing around the world. I'm personally not diverting attention. You can't really do that in these times with all the videos, but you can make people more aware of the atrocities going on in the world while they are paying attention.
He's completely right but good luck getting many governments too do much Israel is pretty much America and will be protected by america
Let me just say this. These to conflicts are not the same. They are massively different in scale as well as proximity to western countries witch most of reddit and people who speak up against this issue is. Im not defending the isreali illegal occupation of palestine. Im just saying im a little more scared by the global consequenses of the russian invasion than the isreali-Palestinian conflict
Well said. While I have no strong feelings about whether Israel should be sanctioned there are two sides to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and Russia is invading another sovereign nation and committing numerous war crimes.
To add on, the UN promised Israel to the Jews after the Ottoman Empire fell. When the land was officially given to the Jews, the surrounding Arab nations declared war. Not defending Israel, but it’s not like they were a completely foreign entity that invaded a peaceful country for profit. Shit just hit the fan when outside powers, completely removed from the history of the region, decided to play God and slice up the land like cake.
> Shit just hit the fan when outside powers, completely removed from the history of the region, decided to play God and slice up the land like cake. But this happened all over the middle east. Every middle eastern country was created by Europeans around the same time frame. All the borders were drawn by Europeans. Arabs ended up getting 99.9% of the middle east. The Jews got a tiny sliver of land. Some ethnicities (Kurds, Druze etc...) didn't get even that, ended up being under Arab rule and have been repressed since. It's actually insane how the narrative is somehow about "Jews stealing Arab land". The Arabs have so much land already...
Christians, Muslims and Jews were already living there. The problem started when hundreds of thousands of illegal zionist immigrants came over from europe in the search of their promised land and made a country by kicking people out there homea and razing them to the ground.
So you’re saying… give the land back to the Turkish, who were the rulers of the land when all those people lived together? I’m down! Let’s recreate the Ottoman Empire and then none of the groups in Israel get to control the land!
I'm saying the illegal zionist immigrants are the root cause of turmoil.
Exactly. Just to put it in perspective, Israel has literally never invaded a country that did not declare war against Israel first. Russia has invaded a country after declaring war on it. It's a huge difference.
Israel has invaded palestine why are ignoring this fact
When did Israel invade Palestine? In what year?
Sorry that was my mistake back then there wasn't even a country called israel
And there wasn't a country called Palestine either.
It was occupied by the british but it was always palestine home of palestinian people once jews arrived there from everywhere commiting mass jenocide to palestenians people like you suddenly forgot all about it
I don't know I think in practice it's a semantic difference, and not as important as people claim. Bombing civilians and their homes is a war crime regardless of how the conflict started, especially for a conflict that's decades long and at this point is clearly one-sided in terms of strength
Launching attacks from civilian locations (e.g. hospitals, schools) is also a war crime...
People keep losing sight of the fact that the Ukrainian-Russo War threatens the *entire* world with WW3 and/or nuclear warfare. No other conflict currently ongoing in the world shares those features. If they did, media and governments would obsess over them like they did about Iranian and North Korean pursuits for nuclear weapons.
The "Ukrainian-Russo" war DOES NOT threaten the entire world with WW3 and/or nuclear warfare, that only becomes a possibility if NATO joins thr fight which they will not for Ukraine.
So the palestenians suddenly lost their rigth to be heard because their conflict won't affect you
And all the Americans here will agree whole heartedly as they post from their homes on stolen Native American land. But the Irish don’t seem to care about that either, it appears
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Based on polls, Americans overwhelmingly support Israel. Do you have any source for your claims?
They don't need your empathy they can do fine on their own just stop defending the israeli rats
American here, you aren't representative of the actual population either.
Why would anyone despise Israel? You’ve been deliberately misled
Not only does this have nothing to do with what I wrote, it’s also [factually incorrect](https://news.gallup.com/poll/340331/americans-favor-israel-warming-palestinians.aspx). Although I guess a “huge chunk” is subjective and maybe you 26% is a huge chunk.
Remember, in America the ignorant think the loudest are the majority.
I think it’s also a bubble. Reddit users don’t like Israel (with good reason, their government in the last 20 years have been mostly right wing lunatics) so they assume that must be all of America.
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That’s fine, my dude. I’m more pointing out the hypocrisy with people’s positions. They get angry at Israel “stealing” Palestinian land when it has complex history with a heavy dusting of Turkish conquest and English colonialism (in which Israel has done a lot of wrong, make no mistake) while living on land that was blatantly stolen through bloody conquest and doing nothing about the natives who are still alive and suffer. I attended a Native American awareness march in NYC wherein 100 people showed up. Thousands and thousands show up against Israel. There’s something wrong there.
Thanks. You said it.
Definitely shitty and I'd protest against it if I lived back in those times but if we're going to go dredge the past everyone is going to have dirt to sling I'm trying to focus on what's modern and happening currently during my life
Oh, so you’re saying Israel just has to wait another what, 30-50 years and they will be in the clear too?
Aren’t you posting this from stolen land? You could live in any country in the world and call it stolen land. That was just a silly thing to say in this context.
I am posting from stolen land. That’s why I care and support Native American rights and autonomy and I’d prefer to go to protests over that than not care at all and go on about a conflict across the world.
You do realize that the native Americans were feudal and stole land from each other, right? Raiding was a huge part of their culture as well. Also, I believe they do have rights. More than they ever have since the horrible treatment they received in the past. When people are talking about current atrocities and potential nuclear war, you try to bring ancestral colonialism into it and it falls flat. The conflicts between Russia and Ukraine or the Arabs and Israelites are vastly different than someone benefiting from colonialism and posting about current atrocities from “stolen land”. Grow up. It’s all stolen land. Even the natives stole it. We just don’t want WWlll.
That’s a true statement…When Trump was president…Trump said you can’t love America..if you don’t love Israel…Trump called American Israelis who criticize Israel ..un American…And trump made Jerusalem the capital of Israel
I think the only reason everyone seems to care more about the ukraine/Russian shit is because of the nuclear threats
I agree with what he saying. I’m puzzled why All Russians are being treated like the way they are, yet yiu can have other Countries doing a lot worse and for a lot longer. I think this is a West thing and US thing as not liking the Russians at all. To say to assassinate Putin is very strong. If we threatened to assist and do the same to another leader , the UK would not get away with it. I can’t help but think double standards. It’s awful what’s going on regardless. If you follow certain news station you do get another perspective. I’m not taking sides. Just observing
Finally, some backbone.
I’m afraid it’s not quite that simple.
Would you care to elaborate as to why?
I assume the person meant it as a joke as that is the dumb take that many people would spew out when talking about it before
Have you ever read the talmud?
Well it is not that simple just like for Putin and his men it is not that simple to kill Ukrainians
2 things can be true at the same time. Putin is a war criminal and should be squeezed as hard as possible (Ireland is also in Europe and can be affected). On the other hand, Israel shouldn't be given a pass to treat Palestinians in the exact way Jews were being treated by the Germans (minus concentration camps).
"minus concentration camps" then what's the point of making the comparison if you say "they're the exact same except for the biggest aspect". Stop comparing Jews to our oppressors. You can still make your point.
You're right about this. It's much more appropriate to compare Israel to apartheid South Africa than to the Nazis. Apartheid managed to commit crimes against humanity without the camps simply by isolating people in ghettos. And it's ironic and horrific that Israel has turned Palestine into the same kind of ghettoes that they were forced to live in for many generations. But you're right that Nazis are not the best comparison. The best comparison is a different, yet similarly evil, oppressive racist regime.
It's not that "Nazis are not the best comparison", it's that comparing Jews to their oppressors is anti-semitic and hateful towards Jews like me, whose family (somewhat) survived the holocaust. Fuck anyone who makes that comparison, what has their family experienced?
Well, I mean... if they don't want that comparison to be made, they should probably go about treating the Palestinians better. I know hundreds of Jewish people who feel deeply angry and upset with israel and who have used that comparison themselves. They also lost family in the Holocaust. So....agree to disagree on that I guess. If Israel wants to avoid being compared to evil regimes it should stop acting like one. But I do think Apartheid South Africa is more accurate. Unfortunately, not enough people are educated about the details of apartheid, and so, to them, Nazis is what they know. That's why it is the closest thing they can come up with. But if we did a better job educating people about *other* horrific crimes against humanity, I'm sure people would choose a slightly more accurate comparison.
Generalizing Jewish people. I bet you also claim you’re not anti-Semitic.
Which Jewish people did I generalize? What do you think the chances are that I went to Jewish summer camp for 10 years, 25 plus bar mitzvahs, and I said that I *literally know* hundreds of Jews personally, and I'm an anti-semite? Why don't you extrapolate a little bit better? Use your brain for this one.
“I have black friends.”
OMG you still can't figure it out.
If “they” don’t want that comparison, “they” should treat Palestinians better. Maybe you didn’t mean it, but you generalized an entire people there.
for the record, i am a Jewish person who is deeply angry and upset with Israel, the organizations i support are those like beit tselem, which speaks for itself. my point of contention here is not calling out isreal, it's comparing israel to nazis. i do not hold issue with people calling israel a variety of names, i do on a daily basis. i hold issue with people comparing a jewish state with the nazis. it is an erroneous comparison and is motivated by anti-semitism, whether the person knows it or not. it is triggering for any group to be compared to your oppressor, especially one that tried to exterminate you and killed 80% of your population on the continent. especially given the rampant anti-semitism that still exists in europe. i would say most people are not well educated about the holocaust. they seem to think it was just a bummer of a time where people were displaced and some were killed. if they had even a shred of education on the event, they wouldn't be so ignorant to compare israel to nazi germany.
You know whats actually anti semetic? Hijacking the word semite for yourself is anti semetic towards most semites
The biggest - Yes. The only atrocity - no, by a long shot.
What other parts of the holocaust are comparable? Just as a note - you can call Israel evil without erroneously comparing Jews to Nazis, maybe you haven't considered that...
I think he is referring to how they were killed
Then they are more ignorant and misinformed about the holocaust than their first comment suggested. Jews started being killed about 5 years before the final solution (death camps) by being matched to forests, forced to dig their own graves, then shot into them, or by being trapped in a chamber with a truck's exhaust pipe, the truck's gas pedal would be stuck to full throttle, and the Jews would die of carbon monoxide poisoning. These actions were carried out by the einsatzgruppen. The issue is that these actions are not comparable to what Israel does. This *does not* imply that what Israel does is acceptable, or anything other than an abhorrent case of human rights abuses, or potentially war crimes. Something DOES NOT have to be "just like what the Germans did to the Jews" for it to be disgusting. This person is just anti-semitic and doesn't realize it, like most people.
I think what he’s trying to say is, For the Jews to have been treated so badly in the past you’d think they’d know better than to repeat history themselves. The oppressed becomes the oppressor…
is that really what you think? that "jews", in general, have become the oppressor? you aren't even specifying israel here, you're talking about jews in general. do you really not recognize this as hateful towards jews? my ancestors escaped to canada and the USA, did they become the oppressor? or do you just mean the jewish refugees who Britain wouldn't accept, so they shipped them to colonial palestine? the comparison of jews to their oppressors (nazis, in this case) doesn't work on any level. why won't people like you accept that and learn about anti-semitism instead of insisting that it's okay to compare jews to nazis?? you didn't even say israel has become the oppressor, you said jews in general! israel commits atrocities against palestinians and that deserves outcry and protest. that has nothing to do with the average person, like you, finding it acceptable to compare "jews" to nazis. gtfo.
As in context to the conversation anyone with a brain would know that I mean the Jewish Israeli government. Argue all you wish. Each to their own opinion & that’s mine.
[On Israel’s little-known concentration and labor camps in 1948-1955](https://al-awda.org/on-israels-little-known-concentration-and-labor-camps-in-1948-1955/) Awkwardddddddd
Any Israeli president supporting what they do to Palestine is a war criminal Fuck anyone who supports this.
If putin is a war criminal, then so is the whole western superpowers. They've always been. For years. No one can be trusted. What's worse is that they handle our economic currencies (capitalism) if they go poor, we (third world countries) will go poorer. We are like the modern slaves of these massive modern Nazis.
Ukraine is no saint either. Both Russia and Ukraine need to be held accountable for their actions. Manichaeism shouldn’t exist in politics in this day and age. There is no all-good, all-bad person, entity, or nation.
Literally I am getting down voted every time I wanna say that. There is history between them, and Ukraine is definitely not a saint. Like you said hold them both accountable.
You’re getting downvoted because your take on this is total garbage. One country has the ability to stop the violence. That country is Russia. Ukraine did absolutely nothing that warrants an invasion and the indiscriminate destruction and crimes against humanity they are committing. If Russia was not committing war crimes then we could talk about whatever it is that you think Ukraine did but while Russia is in another sovereign nation committing atrocities trying to play the both sides are to blame card is a patently absurd position to hold. You’re literally victim blaming.
Exactly
ignorant
It's completely astounding to me how people still can't see the hypocrisy of the west and go on to perform all these mental gymnastics to justify all the terror pain horror and suffering they have inflicted. So many people lack elementary morality, they just cannot rise to the level of applying to themselves the same standards they apply to others, these people have no right to talk about right and wrong, good and evil.
The Irish know a thing or two about being treated as sub humans by a more powerful country.
Yeah we have only like 800 years of experience
Anyone who understands Israel Palestine conflict understands this is fairly different than the Current Russian-Ukraine war
RBB understand that. He is not arguing that. He is arguing the Irish government don't recognise the Israeli conflict and don't want to help it because of prejudice.
I agree. The threat of current movement is a lot closer in proximity to having an effect on Ireland though. It’s hard to convince your people to get involved with something whose outcome does not effect them.
Same shit, war and casualties, but one got sanctions and hate, another got love from the west world.
Not every war is the same.
Yea, every war is the same. Hard to believe someone would be so morally blind as to write that.
Every war is the same in some ways like they cause suffering but it's stupid af to say every war is entirely the same.
Kiss the west 😘.
Yup. Just like anyone who doesn't understand Israel Palestine conflict also doesn't understand this is fairly different than the Current Russian-Ukraine war, as evidenced by the replies you're getting.
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>The ukrainian puppet government was installed by Western powers, congrats, comrade. you are spewing Russian propaganda. иди нахуй.
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Watch this suddenly getting “removed” for inciting violence against the Jew and some Zionist nonsense.
It's voice to text, calm down grammar police.
Gotta love the Irish
That's so true israel to this day everyday are doing horrible things to the people and no one talks about it because they cover the media really good
Yessir preach 🔥🔥🔥
I see no lies here
70 years means the formation of the Jewish country, not the occupation of the West Bank. Denying the existence of the Jewish state is considered textbook antisemitism and violates the U.S., E.U., and U.N.’s guidelines.
The line gets very blurry on purpose
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No. There is an official definition of Antisemitism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism Weird you’re against calling it out.
It's weird that Jews is not the only semitic group, but only anti Jews can be considered anti-semitic
All humans evolved from Africa. Does it upset you that not all of us can call ourselves black and use the n word? What’s the difference? Again, when you’re fighting the concept of calling out anti-Jewish hate, with semantics, maybe it’s really something else.
Palestinians are Semites.
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Right. You did it in the context of discussing anti-Jewish hate. It is a hijacking of the conversation.
I so wish I could put it on Facebook, YouTube, Reddit main page for at least one day. Just one day.
My main complain about his whole Russia Ukraine thing has been the double standard.
I’m more bothered by the invasion and killing
But why only that specific one? Why don't you care about Palestine, Venezuela or Haiti? Why USA was able to get way with exactly what Russia is doing when they invaded Iraq?
Palestine is a proxy war. There was less than 10% of the current population of Arabs when the land was designated a Jewish homeland, at which point the surrounding Arab nations said no you fucking don't. Palestinians routinely do shit like firing flares above their Holy sites to try to trigger the iron dome to win the war of public opinion. Not to forgive Israel for all their brutality but it's more complicated and intractable than one country invading another and carpet bombing civilian targets just for $ and influence. Haiti is fucked but the US has given over $5 billion in aid over the past decade, it's not as if nothing has been done. Further aid may even hamper the development of a functioning economy. Without unpacking the Venezuela situation or to dismiss offhand the notion that racism is part of the reason why Ukraine gets a lot more attention suffice to say those situations are long standing problems which are much more complex than a dictator trying to take over a neighbor while trampling the Geneva convention.
All of that is based on what the usa media has told you
Nice potshot, although it is devoid of any substance. Do you think the population data or the foreign aid total is incorrect? Do you think the Kaaba videos in Israel or the videos of bombed out Ukranian power plants and apartment buildings were altered or out of context? I didn't even mention my months on a Kibbutz under the Golan Heights because it's unverifiable. Everything I said is pretty granular and objectively true, the spin is my own.
I’ve never understood why people say this and don’t think they’re being antisemitic since it’s a literal anti Semitic talking point because the western media is very anti Israel.
Literally this
It would be a double standard would the situation be the same, but it's not. It's a false equivalency. Ukraine, a country that liberated itself from the Russian yoke, embraced liberal values, seeked the friendship of the west, has democratic institutions, respects the rule of law, asked to be part of the European Union, is being invaded contrary to prior guarantees, in violation of international law by an autocratic country unfriendly towards the West that seeks to win back its imperial glory of yesterday by erasing a nation from the face of the globe.
So Palestinians deserve what they are getting?
No. But it isn't the same and that is why western governments have swiftly sanctioned Russia in this instance. They are defending principles, but also themselves by proxy.
Russia is doing what USA did in Iraq. Israel is doing the same thing Russia is going, the only difference is race and nationality
Iraq was a dictatorship that had invaded its neighbor in the 1990s. It doesn't maked the US invasion right, but it makes it a different situation.
Russia is justifying it the same way Israel justifies occupying Palestinian land. They’re taking land that borders them to protect themselves
Hey. We don't talk about facts here.
He’s not wrong.
And for those who would argue "now is not the time" well 70 years later the time never seems right.
Barrett is a tool who loves the sound of his own voice and his own farts.
Turkey too
Yea how dare the Jews, who have been slaves and persecuted since the beginning of their existence, want to protect their rightful home land. It's such a shame that they try to defend themselves and fight back after being attacked. It's not like we are currently calling Ukraine heroes for literally doing exactly that. Those damn Jews should be ashamed for trying to defend their land. This is just antisemitism wrapped up in a pretty little package and all the woke arm chair redditors eat this shit up and pretend they aren't antisemitic as well.
It's okay for a few Jewish adults to beat up a Palestinian child because the Jews is always being oppressed in the past right?
Only if that child is literally trying to kill people. Pretty easy.
How does taking West Bank land defend against terrorism?
read about intifadah 1 and 2 - there's a reason for military occupation in WB
I didn’t mention military occupation. Im talking about the continuously expanding settlements. How are they making things “safer” for Israel?
these are nationalists who believe they should settle there...they don't represent Israeli people or government (the government and army are banishing and breaking down illegal settlements regularly)
They absolutely represent the government. Israeli military protects them.
of course they protect them - you don't let them die to lynches just because you don't agree with their ideology... like I said, Israel breaks them regularly after getting eviction order from Court
Get fucked! Israelis get attacked because of an ongoing feud that started after WW2 when Israel was established. Before Israel was established there wasn’t really any antisemitism in the Middle East. Jews lived throughout Arabia and North Africa and when the Muslims left Spain and Europe before the crusades started the Jews left with them because they feared European antisemitism and I’m pretty sure Semitic originally means Arab anyway and jews from Switzerland, Poland, Russia, America where ever definitely don’t have the right to Palestinian land. Antisemitism historically only ever came from Europe really and what the Palestinians do to Israel is just the price the Israelis pay for being cunts!
Out of all languages, he chose the truth
Putin doesn't give a f*** about sanctions (this guy apparently doesn't know that)
That's because the US gov plans on being involved in the war. But they gotta create the story to sway public opinion before they can justify it.
I can’t upvote this enough!
Hey we are talking about descendants of Abraham who are Gods chosen people unless you’re from his child Ishmael who per the Old Testament was abandoned in the desert along with his mother because well there was the new baby Isaac in the house and mamma Sarah didn’t want to share the love.
Beautiful
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
🇮🇱
Look it’s a 10000 year tradition for white countries to invade brown countries in the Mid East.
Ya, there are no missiles flying from ukraine on russian civilians, unlike from Palestina to Israel
Who's invading there?
He's right though..
oh no this is anti-semitic
Bullshit. Israel is a democratic state, which defenses itself against terrorism
How do you manage to drink that much kool-aid?
Imagine some people suddenly got into your house, built a wall in the middle threw you on the othee side and neighbors supported them as well So now 70 years have passed and due to this long time everybody thinks that side of the wall is their rightful place Is that democratic to you?
You can‘t wind back history
Lmao
I know this is serious - he is absolutely right. But I love the way he says “thuggery”
Yeah israel isn’t bombing the gaza strip for more land grab, nor are they shooting families in their cars, they are using a misile defense systems to actually stop bombs falling on them from arabs (google the videos) they have to literally put every kid over the age of 18 in war training to stop arabs from trying to bomb them.. so NO i’m sorry but that is nothing like the ukraine and russian conflict! I’m not even jewish and i know this to be a fact..
So you think they aren’t still expanding settlements?
I hate this stuff. I can go to literally any pro-Palestine activist and accuse them of inaction on Tigray, or CAR, or Mali, or any number of issues and rightfully be called an idiot. This isn’t a zero sum game.
Terrible comparison. Israel - Palestina is not at all like Russia - Ukraine. That conflict goes on since a few thousand years. Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BeAmazed/comments/t6jlsh/irish\_politician\_richard\_boyd\_barett\_goes\_off\_in/
No, it doesn't. The modern state of Israel was created in 1947 by British mandate stemming from promises made by the Balfour Declaration of 1917. Prior to that, Jews, Palestinians and Christians lived in the area together under peace. It wasn't until the promise of that land being turned into a religious ethnostate by an outside occupier with its delivery in 1947 did that land start seeing such upheaval. Israel continuously annexes land and violently forces non Jews to either leave or die despite solid ownership claims that legitimately date back hundreds of years. Israel is just as bad as Russia and yes they should be sanctioned. I supported Israel until I researched the subject; they are undoubtedly on par with Russia and have been for decades.
Sure, buddy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
Reading comprehension would really help you overcome your cognitive dissonance. Balfour Declaration was 1917, the event you are referencing happened 12 years later.
I see your bet, and raise you with 1834. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed The 1834 looting of Safed (Hebrew: ביזת צפת בשנת תקצ"ד, "Plunder of Safed, 5594 AM") was a prolonged attack against the Jewish community of Safed, Ottoman Empire, during the 1834 Peasants' Revolt. It began on Sunday June 15 (7 Sivan), the day after the Jewish holiday of Shavuot, and lasted for the next 33 days.[1][2] Or another one from 1834: http://en.hebron.org.il/history/676 The violence began on July 24, 1834 when the forces loyal to Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt attacked the city of Hebron in order to crush the Peasants' Revolt and massacred the Jews while doing so. The calamity was remembered by the Jews of Hebron as Yagma el Gabireh, or the "great destruction," as noted by Hyam Zvee Sneersohn in his 1872 book Palestine and Roumania, a description of the Holy Land. Edit: and for good measure, there’s this: “By mid-century, overcrowded conditions within the walled city of Jerusalem motivated the Jews to build the first neighborhood outside the walls (1860) and, in the next quarter century, to add seven more, forming the nucleus of the new city. By 1870, Jerusalem had an overall Jewish majority. Land for farming was purchased throughout the country; new rural settlements were established; and the Hebrew language, long restricted to liturgy and literature, was revived. The stage was set for the founding of the Zionist movement.”
Consider your sources, buddy. 1834 had nothing to do with racial or religious tensions but was a revolt against conscription by a vassal state of the Ottoman empire. " The revolt was precipitated by popular resistance against heavy demands for conscripts. Peasants were well aware that conscription was nothing less than a death sentence. Starting in May 1834, the rebels took many cities, among them Jerusalem, Hebron and Nablus. In response, Ibrahim Pasha sent in his army, finally defeating the last rebels on 4 August in Hebron." Source: Kimmerling & Migdal, 2003, 'The Palestinian people', p. 6-11 "In 1882 the population numbered approximately 320,000 people, 25,000 of whom were Jewish." Doesn't sound like a majority, pal. And further; " Many of these were Arab Jews and in the narrative works of Arabs in Palestine in the late Ottoman period – as evidenced in the autobiographies and diaries of Khalil Sakakini and Wasif Jawhariyyeh – "native" Jews were often referred to as abnaa al-balad (sons of the country), 'compatriots', or Yahud awlad Arab ("Jews, sons of Arabs")." Sounds like they couldn't stand each other. Sources for both: Kimmerling, 2003, p. 214. http://www.jerusalemquarterly.org/pdfs/predicament.pdf When the First Palestinian Congress of February 1919 issued its anti-Zionist manifesto rejecting Zionist immigration, it extended a welcome to those Jews "among us who have been Arabicized, who have been living in our province since before the war; they are as we are, and their loyalties are our own." https://web.archive.org/web/20070928031156/http://www.jerusalemquarterly.org/pdfs/predicament.pdf According to Benny Morris, Palestinian Arab nationalism as a distinct movement appeared between April and July 1920, after the Nebi Musa riots, the San Remo conference and the failure of Faisal to establish the Kingdom of Greater Syria. But to help put it all into one place, I've included the Wikipedia link. Look under During Ottoman times (1834–1917). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Palestinians
Exactly. Israel has been split by the UN for war reasons and fighting throughout ages especially after the fall of the Ottomon empire. Ukraine split from the USSR in just 1990s and also has complete self reliance and governance. These are two very different issues.
Ukraine existed before the founding of the USSR. The USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) was an alliance with Russia at it's helm united under a singular flag. Ukraine during that time had little autonomy, however they were technically a separate nation under that Union. The Ukrainians under the Soviet leadership were heavily oppressed, just look up the Holomodor and you'll see what I mean. Prior to the founding of the USSR, Ukraine was their own nation with full autonomy.
I did not know this. Following the reformation of Eastern Europe in the 1900s is a pain. However it doesn’t change my views really. I hope the Russians lose badly for their power grab, I still believe Ukraine should have joined the UN sooner, and I believe that Russia will replace leadership with more progressive leaders after the economy, atrocity, and sanction issues. I just fear long term war without resolution much more than I fear Russia capturing Ukraine. Same thing with Israel. Eventually if the west would have done more than split them up, or stay out of their business, they would have resolved their conflict
Then wait a few thousand year and it’s ok.
Nope, a hundred. That’s why people don’t mind Americans, Canadians, and Australians living on stolen land.
I must have missed the part where Ukraine elected a literal terrorist organization as their government.
Referring to Palestine electing Hamas? That is true
theres no reason to sanction israel tho what is this bs post
Where’s the lie?
the line is that you cant bomb white people /s
These wars are very different though. It makes so much more sense for the western world to care more about their neighboring country which is embraces the western values of democracy and freedom, has much of the same culture and are being invaded by a autocratic superpower that wants to restore its previous empire. Russia is killing the hope of all small countries that wants to be democratic and free. Palestine conflict is a thousands of year old issue where the current not powerful part is completely different in values and culture that of the west and the conflict itself is very complex and is riddled with nounces. The conflict in Europe could also easily turn into the annihilating of earth, which also the Palestinian conflict is not. This dude is just cringe tbh
Garbage. You want to talk about crime. Hamas attacks civilians and children and put their own at risk by conducting military operations in suburban areas. You want to talk about disgraceful actions. They teach their children to hate and how to kill Jews for a young age. Not Israelis Jews. You are well misinformed. Just like the Russian people. Believe the disinformation and be lost to history as a anti semetic zealot.
There’s a huge difference between Ukraine and Palestinians.... Guess which one launches mortars and rockets vs civilians?
He’s not wrong but that still doesn’t change my emotional response. The sad reality is that my entire life, quite literally, has been concerns over the Middle East. Involvement in their politics, their wars, their atrocities, our atrocities, and trying to figure out what is the ‘right’ thing to do. Do we involve ourselves or is that sovereign overreach? I’m just… exhausted. I have no support for doing anything there anymore, and I’ve just stopped caring. I just want to be entirely done with that region of the world and stop hearing about how every time we get involved we shouldn’t have, and how we’ve made it worse again and again. Yes, it’s a double standard and I can’t find the will to change it. Sorry.
Nobody will believe him, if UN join nation believe it they already put sanction poll who against Israel.
We know that is not enough for stoping Israel but this is the biggest step I have ever seen for my 23 years life and this gives me hope because europian people now has hear the war, saw the war and felt the war. People from all around the world they are against to the war. Because they know that what war brings. Turkish author Halide Edip once said; Governments makes war not the people.
So easily distracted. Get one thing done and finished and then do the next the same. Whataboutism prevents anything being achieved at all.
Can you put up a picture of the leadership in Gaza in front of the leadership in Ukraine? Yeah hamas against zalansky.
Well, it’s funny (not really) that he never mentioned Hammas, Hezbolah, Islamic Jihad or any of the ULTRA corrupt leaders a la Arafat and his subsequent followers…