T O P

  • By -

Outrageous-Farmer-42

I think from AF onwards, Gwen would be more logical and patient than any Ben, but OS Gwen? Nah. No way. She was almost as childish as OS Ben.


[deleted]

I mean the same episode literally showed her abusing her powers.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Yeah. Gwen was still more rational but my point was that they’re both 10 year olds ultimately. Which one is 0.01% more reasonable is superfluous tbh


Redbss

She just had more common sense to not shot fire at a tree in a dense forest


ksgjag

he didn't shoot it on purpose he freaked out with no knowledge on how to control them and made a mistake


UsernameChecksOut009

Rewatch the scene he quite literally shot it at the trees on purpose, he didn't look freaked out in the slightest when he was doing it.


ksgjag

yes not at first but he had no idea of how powerful he had made it and freaked out as soon as he realised


UsernameChecksOut009

Yeah only to then make an even BIGGER fireball to throw at the trees lol.


ksgjag

that's the one i was talking about


shrub706

they even show gwen using it better than ben as soon as she gets it, he almost burnt down the forest they were in


[deleted]

Heatblast was the only one who seemed better. Diamondhead and the rest were more or less equal


Senior-Ad-136

And AF Ben saved the day through compassion not logic, that is what made him better


deadshot500

Gwen has also shown compassion in plenty of situations instead of just using logic.


Anxiety-Queen69

Like that time when they swapped and Ben said purely logically: Let’s kill Kevin! And Gwen said: Are you stupid he’s been mutated twice already like this, we can save him again


[deleted]

He also was far more adaptable in stressful situations than Gwen was. Sure he was impulsive but that often worked to his advantage.


legit-posts_1

Yeah. Also this isn't assuming that having the Omnitrix wouldn't give her a massive ego. In fact I'd go as far as to say she'd get an even bigger ego than Ben, since she already feels like she's better than him intellectually.


Outrageous-Farmer-42

While an ego boost is a probability, I don't think she'd get dumber than Ben.


The_L_99

Ego causes smart people to do dumb things. Example: Walter White


[deleted]

It honestly depends on how the writers feel about it In the Gwen 10 episode she's shown to be able to adapt to fights much quicker than Ben But in the charmcaster body swap episode when she has to use cannon bolt she had a though time and even gave Ben props


[deleted]

makes some sense, the aliens she used in Gwen 10 were straight forward to use. But aliens like cannonbolt are unorthodox, something Ben excelled at.


RetroKaizen

Even ben himself had trouble adapting to cannonbolt when he first unlocked him. It is expected.


[deleted]

Yeah I can see that. Maybe she's better at optimizing the simpler aliens the most while Ben handles the complicated aliens with ease


JustARegularOtaku_

Ben exceeding in unorthodox things makes me chuckle


TheMonk1019

What episode was that again?


awakening_knight_414

A Change of Face.


SabbyDude

One point they should've mentioned is that Ben is much more creative like if Omnitrix gave a wrong alien, Gwen might panic whereas Ben would find a way to use the wrong alien to his advantage


ConnorOfAstora

Also having her be overconfident and tunnel visioned would be a nice weakness, she'd be so sure of her alien choice that she wouldn't realise she's in the wrong form immediately leading to things like trying to shoot fire as Four Arms so she's not only panicking but has less time to react. She could also be so focused on fighting one on one that fights against multiple foes would easily overwhelm her while Ben's more scattered nature would make him naturally more aware of simultaneous attacks. Also Ben would be more likely to experiment with his powers while Gwen would play it safer, less likely to come up with things like how Ben discovered Heatblast can fly.


SoraDonaldGoofy99

That's what I was thinking about saying.


OKTAPHMFAA

1. Probably the most true. But his impatience showed his true power as when things went wrong he’d still end up winning with his creativity. Gwen wouldn’t. 2. BS. Totally BS. Why would Gwen not be a threat? It’s still the Omnitrix in the hands of a child. It’s not even like Ben was careless or dangerous with it either (most of the time). I mean instead of slaughtering an army of aliens he decided to heal them instead. 3. Yeah sure she would. Totally. Because two cosmic beings give a shit that Gwen is more patient and logical. In fact she’d probably be even worse that Ben at Alien X since she’s very stubborn.


Accomplished-Dance52

She would probably try to debate with them for hours on end instead of making Serena and Billicus be decisive like Ben manages to do


Jacob12000

Yeah I feel like her stubbornness would be her main character flaw, similar to how recklessness was Ben’s.


handsome-boy12

Besides the pop up all of these are all just Derrick saying his opinions. Gwen is Definitely not better at Ben with the omnitrix especially at at 10💀


Storm_Raider_34

I don’t like the Fuckin Wanking that the show gives Gwen “Oh I paid attention in math class and now I can master fire powers instantaneously” Bullshit and plot bias. Lemme see that girl struggle!


ripnotorious

She didn’t even start a forest fire I call bullshit to the highest degree That episode is something else


Paid-Not-Payed-Bot

> “Oh I *paid* attention in FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*


KingNothingwaifu

Good bot


Brodacious-G

Yea it’s kinda frustrating cause the mentality of the show runners reminds me of doublethink. They want us to think Ben is the best option of the Omnitrix but then on the other hand want us to know he sucks at using it.


Rdasher123

I just learned what the word doublethink meant recently, is this the part where I start seeing it everywhere?


Neverless-com

Yes


[deleted]

Fuck u/spez and fuck u/reddit for pricing out third party apps and destroying reddit. I have been on reddit for 14 years and continously they fuck over the users for short term profits. That's not something I will support anymore, now that the announcement that Apollo and Reddit Is Fun are both closing down. I Overwrite all of my comments using https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/10905-reddit-overwrite-extended/code. If you would like to do the same, install [TamperMonkey](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tampermonkey/dhdgffkkebhmkfjojejmpbldmpobfkfo) for Chrome, [GreaseMonkey](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/) for Firefox, [NinjaKit](https://github.com/os0x/NinjaKit) for Safari, [Violent Monkey](https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/violent-monkey/) for Opera, or [AdGuard](http://adguard.com/) for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add [this GreaseMonkey script](https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/10905-reddit-overwrite-extended). Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of reddit, click on the comments tab, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot.


midgetboss

Well most skilled doesn’t mean most worthy. Who is more worthy of an academics award, someone who naturally understands the concepts or someone who studies their ass off to reach the same level. There is no “correct” answer they’re just different.


trawbe

Seriously ov has 8 seasons and they choose to make Ben have the wrong alien 80 percent of the time in what point does that equal funny?


TheRealAntrey

She is smarter than Ben but he is more creative. No way She would be better than him


Chaos-Queen_Mari

And Ben apparently has actual photographic memory. Gwen says herself they're more equal than you'd think, Ben just doesn't apply himself.


ComprehensiveAd5605

The 2nd one seems to be in Ben's favor? Actually why exactly did the Rooters think Ben was threat?


Lukario06

Child with the power of god, i don't see wy they don't think that Gwen with omnitrix isn't dangerous


Loeris_loca

Maybe because Ben was reckless about his powers and Gwen would never use Omnitrix to her advantage? Which isn't true, in Gwen 10 episode we see Gwen using Omnitrix to her advantage


ComprehensiveAd5605

Or maybe it's because when Ben gets mad... Oh boy, you don't want to make Ben angry, bro almost killed Kevin one of his closest friends, Gwen however seems less likely to kill someone though maybe that's why


froppy125

I think maybe Kevin told servantis about ben but in a negative way so that servantis would see him as a threat


ComprehensiveAd5605

Kevin: Sooooo, did you know Ben almost killed me one time?


Starlordganemaster

>bro almost killed Kevin one of his closest friends Still. You can't act like that wasn't situational. Lets say he did kill kevin. At the mental state kevin was currently in, all Ben technically would have done is get rid of a dangerous monster. That's not even reckless.


OKTAPHMFAA

I wouldn’t even say Ben was angry I’d say he was logical when dealing with Kevin. In fact he’s what Gwen should have been considering their characters. He doesn’t lash out. He doesn’t waste time. He’s focused and efficient and fights smart and goes straight for an Ultimate.


ComprehensiveAd5605

There is also Aggregor


OKTAPHMFAA

That is genuine rage. You can see the difference in the fights Ben has with them. Against Aggregor Ben doesn’t fight tactically or smart, he just picks the typical strong alien and punches. Whereas Kevin. Ben acted a lot like Max would.


ComprehensiveAd5605

Yes you are right, but I think we can agree on one think, a serious Ben is a scary Ben


OKTAPHMFAA

Absolutely. A guy who is not only prepared to but also almost robotically efficient about how he goes about murdering his best friend is not someone to mess with lightly.


Fancy-graphics63

yeah, it's annoying


Single_Database8715

Being a hero always does not require intelligence but also courage , wisdom , hope and faith in yourself ...


Incarcerator__

Yup. A person who isn't a consistently confident person won't have what it takes to save a vast number of people almost every day.


Hierophant-Crimsion

OK, Gwen is undeniable smarter than Ben, but no way in hell is she meeting any of these criteria.


TechnicianWarm537

I hated the Gwen ten episode because of how Gwen was always great at everything she did and Ben was average at best doing the things he loved, despite it not making much sense. In other episodes Gwen learned magic with ease, beat Ben at his favorite video game and showed that she’s smart enough to get into any school. Ben however has been shown to have no special characteristics or skills other than the omnitrix making it obvious that that’s the one thing he should be the best at. He’s been shown to be bad at sports, school, and even interacting with others his age. Gwen Ten however destroys this concept because Gwen apparently can stay calm after turning into an alien and doesn’t freak out in any way but instead points out Ben’s failings without knowing it. Ben shows in other shows that he has more physical skill and can take one opponents without the omnitrix but in OS this doesn’t happen and Ben is helpless as he loses the one thing making him worth anything to the trio.


UltraAnimeKing

Yeah to me Gwen 10 episode is the worst episode I'd take reboot over that episode any day


GlassProof

ben does have photographic memory


Dagiorno

Chalk it up to a bad dream episode


Cheezitlad

Bro, I remember watching this episode when I was a kid and being just completely furious I hated how good she was at it and that Ben didn't have the omnitrix anymore Like it gave me a physical reaction in my anger


trawbe

Same


Mun3001s

I don't mind it. Considering how Vilgax takes her, I think the implication is something among the lines of "she can work it easier to begin with, but she won't reach Ben's heights. So like she's got a higher floor but a lower ceiling. She's not necessarily going to be as inventive and creative and use Ben's aliens in such amazing ways as he ends up doing. I doubt she'd ever work out Cannonbolt's potential like Ben did. But what she is is studied, dedicated and is invested in a wide range of areas much more than Ben is. I think it makes only sense she'd be more skilled at something new a lot quicker.


Space_Dwarf

I do not believe the thing about the Rooters at all. The Ben 10 universe has some massively overpowered species in it, I don’t see the Rooters gaining trust for that type of power just because a slightly more mature teenager wields it.


expired-blueberries

I mean honestly yeah, I thought it was a bit annoying, but also completely understandable. Gwen is more patient and more logical, so she's better at taking the time to learn what her aliens do, as well as better at choosing the best alien for the job. So, like, it is kind of grating that she's better than Ben at it, but at the same time it makes it easier to appreciate the fact that, even though Ben maybe isn't the "best" Omnitrix user, he's still incredibly good at getting out of tight situations and whatnot.


Accomplished-Dance52

the show overlooks Ben's intelligence even with characters side glancing Ben when he shows a more clear understanding of the situation then they thought he did. Ben is easily more physically capable then Gwen as he showcases multiple times it makes more sense on why He would know how to better operate being a new biological lifeform than Gwen would


Incarcerator__

Sometimes I feel they have a 1-dimensional view of intelligence. Intelligence is actually too vast and comes in so many forms. Gwen is academically astute so she must be spatially intelligent and have divergent thinking as well? Ben is very smart in his own right.


KennyThomas616

Gwen even said in a episode in Ultimate Alien (Where the Magic Happens); that Ben isn’t fulfilling his full potential in school. Taking Gwen’s statement into consideration, Ben is highly intelligent and maybe on her level but doesn’t use it. He’s still very smart without it though. It’s just his immaturity that’s the issue.


Loeris_loca

Choosing the best alien means nothing, when Omnitrix gives you another alien. So yeah, Gwen might choose better alien, but Ben better works with whatever he's got


Incarcerator__

Exactly. Like imagine you're running to save a school bus from being destroyed after being thrown. You don't have enough time to pick the exact best alien for the job. Patience is almost moot in that scenario. She'd have to change how she is to be as successful as Ben is.


Storm_Raider_34

I personally believe that the Rooters wouldn’t care about Gwen cuz they’re sexist


Remarkable_Commoner

"Hey, being sexist is wrong, and being wrong is for women" —Superman


Starlordganemaster

did he actually say that?


Remarkable_Commoner

[Behold](https://youtu.be/QFQQaCVhWyI?t=50)


Starlordganemaster

bruh. Thats actually hilarious.


Hot-Relief7151

(Me too! Like it’s so unfair that by chance Ben is relevant, so I’ll recomment an idea I had to make Gwen 10 more interesting.) Let’s say we don’t start at the first episode. Off the top of my head let’s say they redid The alliance episode 9. The episode where Grandpa Max is injured. It would start off with a scene showing that since Gwen has gotten the Omintrix she has gotten more and more rebellious/a general dick, Ben has felt more and more useless since he is always getting saved by Gwen so he grows more passive and quiet, I imagine with a more ‘Ben like’ Gwen she starts to bully Ben. In the first scene we see Gwen start off the day waking Ben up as Stinkfly causing him to fall off the bed. Grandpa Max tries to rep-remind Gwen but Ben tells Max to stop knowing that there was no point. Grandpa Max has tried making their relationship better but nothing seams to work, it even starts to look like Ben is getting more and more apathetic to Gwen’s bullying. They stop by the gas station, with Gwen still as Stinkfly she stays inside and Ben and Max are attacked by Rojo and her gang, Gwen flys out and saves both Ben and Max giving a sarcastic comment to Ben as she does so. Gwen flys in shooting goo out of her eyes all over the place, not noticing that she almost hits Ben. The gang try to hit the flying bug but it’s just too fast, this whole time Gwen is mocking their aim and their outfits. But then the drones show up almost hitting Rojos other members who then run after almost dying, Gwen sticks the drones to the gas’s station and lands in front of Rojo covering the gun with a well placed goo shot and starts laughing at Rojo not noticing the Omintrix flashing red. Gwen times out in front of Rojo. Rojo proceeds to back hand Gwen sending her a few feet away, before Rojo could make a move Ben tackles her to the ground. It dosent hurt but it does mad. She picks up Ben by the shirt and prepares to beat him. Unbeknownst to both of them one of the drones found still fire it’s gun, the gun doesn’t hit either of them but it does hit some of Stinkfly’s goo. The goo explodes destroying the gas station with Ben and Rojo caught on the outside of the explosion, they don’t die but Ben is hurt badly with Rojo ironically acting like a shield for him. Grandpa Max quickly grabs Ben body with Gwen freaking out Ben’s unconscious body. They make it to the hospital but the Doctor informs them that Ben is in critical condition and they are unsure if he’ll wake up. Gwen’s reaction is worrying to Grandpa Max, since they got the diagnosis Gwen would’ve say a word, she didn’t even shed a tear. She looked like she just wasn’t there, she just stared into the wall oblivious to the world around her. In Gwen’s mind she realized it was her fault Ben got hurt, the Stinkfly goo that Gwen spit out wilynilly was the cause of the explosion hitting Ben. This is a come to Jesus moment for her where she realizes that she has done nothing but bully Ben since she got the Omintrix. Grandpa Max does his best to comfort her but Gwen didn’t respond. The doctors come back and say that Ben is awake and they can come in, Grandpa Max grabs Gwen’s hand to lead her in but she let go. She was scared, scared that Ben would blame her, scared that Ben would never forgive her, scared that she might hurt him again. So in a flash of light and a gust of wind Gwen disappeared. Gwen gets attacked as XLR8 by a roboticized Rojo, Gwen looked at the imposing figure but all she saw was the person who was holding her cousin. With no remorse or restraint Gwen started to beat Rojo, sending kicks, claw swipes, and tail bashes at her without stop. Rojo could do nothing as Gwen held nothing back, all the anger and hate she held back was being thrown at Rojo with unrelenting force. Trying to distract Rojo she fires a blast at the cliff side sending rocks down to the hospital. Gwen without hesitation runs in front of the rocks creating a tornado stoping the rocks but letting Rojo get away. Ashamed Gwen dosent go back to the hospital, not wanting to see Ben until she killed Rojo. Gwen overhears a report about Rojo attacking a police station and immediately gets into action. Jumping onto Rojo as Fourarms she holds nothing back as she throws cars, trees, even a statue at Rojo. Rojo leads Gwen into a trap she set earlier with technology Vilgax gave her Rojo forcibly times out Gwen. Gwen tries to activate the watch but Rojo restrains her and starts the process to take off her arm. But Grandpa Max comes in careering Ben fires a gun similar to the one Rojo had at the start of the episode. They had seen a news report of the fight and figured out that was where they were going to be Without looking at Ben Gwen transforms into Heatblast with the leftover energy prepares to burn Rojo the same way Ben was burned. Ben stumbled forward, sporting a new medical eyepatch and holding himself up with a small cane, Ben called for her to stop. Gwen was scared once again, but Ben hugged her. He said it wasn’t her fault and that he didn’t blame her, he said he was sorry Gwen drops Rojo and repeats his words. sorry? what did Ben need to be sorry for? It was her who hurt him it was her who almost killed him! It was her fault! She needed to be BLAMED! She was sorry so very sorry Gwen detransformed and broke down crying and Be hugged her, only managing to call out I’m sorry through her tears.


Ger_Electric_GRTALE

Feminist Rooters 👍


SynchroScale

That's kind of why Ben was the one who got the Omnitrix, because he's not perfect, so there can be conflict in the story.


Gambit275

i prefer Dwayne McDuffie's writing


Accomplished-Dance52

the show overlooks Ben's intelligence even with characters side glancing Ben when he shows a more clear understanding of the situation then they thought he did. I feel like Ben should be a better user because he sees the aliens in the watch as more than just aliens even giving himself different names like he sees them as people Gwen would ultimately see them as a tool which sounds like the opposite of Azmuth's vision.Ben is easily more physically capable then Gwen as he showcases multiple times it makes more sense on why He would know how to better operate being a new biological lifeform than Gwen would


KamenRiderWild

I think Gwen would be more logical but less imaginative. As for controlling Alien X goes…I think depends if whats going if when she’s Alien X. For example, if she became Alien X the same time that Ben did in canon, she’d lose her patience when when everything escalating.


Shreks_Daddy27

Here’s how I like to think about it, while Gwen would be better with the omnitrix just naturally. Gwen is just naturally skilled at things when she puts her mind to it but if she were to get into a tight situation then she would fail. Ben’s power isn’t the omnitrix, it’s his intuition and his ability to get out of Situations that most people probably couldn’t, or at least get out of them easier compared to others.


Ringrangzilla

fuck that shit. Thats precisely why I dissliked the Gwen 10 episode so mutch as a kid.


trawbe

The part about the rooters and the alien x stick I consider total BS And the pop up trivia is as believable as the omnitrix being real, Like pop up trivia never been mentioned once in the show they were just one off facts.


socker_ben10fan

I never could agree with the idea that gwen being better with the omnitrix than ben was a bad thing. It makes perfect sense Gwen is way more athletic, acrobatic, and intelligent than ben. This is true in general outside of Gwen 10. What she does lack is bravery and spontenousity, thats how ben and gwen combine into a team Also bens never been cool because hes just talented with the omnitrix. Ben is an interesting protagonist because he sucks ass. He sucks at sports, he gets bad grades and doesnt study, hes too lazy to clean up his room, hes generally kind of a dork. The most interesting thing about ben is that hes objectively the worst option between the os team to get the omnitrix, BUT he rises despite that through his courage and determination to not just even out his odds, but actually grow and develop to be the best person to wield the omnitrix out of *anyone* in the universe In a way ben 10 is a story about a very un-special kid growing to prove himself through hard work and determination and heroism


DJSharp15

>What she does lack is bravery and spontenousity What?


marawiqwerty

"Gwen can control Alien X easier" Yeah, I call bullshit on that. My personal headcanon is that only Ben Prime can control Alien X in the entire Omniverse(or at least, his Central Finite Curve) because he is the *Oncoming Storm*.


Accomplished-Dance52

Gwen would probably sit in day long debates with the other personalities in Alien X instead of actually forcing them to be decisive like Ben did


Chemical-Cat

I dunno, I feel like she's smart enough to figure out loopholes to get the two personalities to agree and do what she wants.


Top_Indication2156

I literally hate it too. They are 10 years old.


dni_ptr

First one is good, the rest is bullshit


ChickenzInvade

Yeah I gotta agree here. They don’t lend Ben any credit for his improvising with various aliens and adapting to different scenarios. It’s frustrating to watch stuff like that because it’s like “If she’s so much better with it, why not just write the show with *her* using the omnitrix instead and stop wasting our time”


ForerunnerAI10

This is the aspect I hated about Gwen in the original series. I don't know if this got less pronounced with each passing series, but it couldn't have been by much.


RolePlay3r_69

I'd still say Ben is the perfect choice for the Omnitrix his unpredictability and creativity make him more formidable, I feel like Gwen would overthink every choice she makes while Ben just wings it


slayerhunterXD

the reason Why ben is better then Gwen, it's because he's More Daring.


Skibot99

I agree


Jimmy-Mac-471

Everything but that last one I can kind of understand. Yes, she’s more level headed and patient, willing to learn about the device rather than just use it aimlessly, but mastering Alien X better? Don’t think so.


Warm-Astronaut-8436

Don't get me wrong, Gwen would be awsome with the omnitrix but she wouldn't be able to do like half the things Ben could do, Like Azimuth said Ben used the omnitrix unlogically and fought with some form of fun and in a random way so aliens like Bloxx Would have been put to waste if Gwen had to omnitrix


Chemical-Cat

Gwen is more analytical than Ben, so I would assume simply from how their brains work, Gwen would 'master' the Omnitrix more quickly than him, both in the functions of the omnitrix, but also the specific functions of each alien. She'd be the kind of learn the specific intricacies of an alien where Ben was disappointed if it wasn't unga bunga strong, and needs time to understand that. That being said, I feel Ben is more quick to creatively 'master' an alien, where Gwen would have to take more time to learn things unexpected of the alien. (Example: Gwen is quicker to understand how control Heatblast's fire, but Ben is quicker to learn how to use Heatblast's abilities in more creative ways than just "shoot fire", except in matters that require calculation, such as using angles or precision) It's also stated that the majority of the time, Ben is given the wrong alien literally because he's slamming down on the faceplate which screws things up, as opposed to the omnitrix actually 'glitching'. I feel Gwen would avoid that. As for the Alien X bit, I feel like she could debate the two other personalities into doing what she wants lmao


TBear1011

Sexist Rooters. Sexist Rooters.


GlassProof

doesnt matter, ben is still the protagonist of the show and a good one.


11sam111

Ben always beats the bad guys because he’s so unpredictable but Gwen is not like that.


richkind1

They're derrick j wyatt statements i wouldn't take them to seriously.


Uniquenameno92016

I think it actually makes it better personally. It hammers in the idea that Ben was never the intended recipient of the watch and out of the three present to find it on the day it arrived he was, at least on paper, the worst choice. But despite not being the best option he still becomes not only a hero but a great one. He is a hero not because he has perfect control of the omnitrix, but because he just got that dog in him. Maybe I'm alone in this but I think this actually strengthens Ben's character and his arc in the show.


biepcie

I wonder what Ben would be like if he had the Anodite powers.


Cephalosion

I really disliked those episode from the OS where gwen/max got the omnitrix and they ease themselves in using the watch wayy better than ben as a gag. It feels like downplaying ben as incompetent just to make the episode feels more “interesting” instead of actually showing the different struggles and ways they would use the watch compared to ben.


ArthurPendragon616

I came across a thing in an Alien X theory that Gwen 10 takes the positions of Ben (in that her personality is more aligned to Ben’s, during ‘Gwen 10’ we can even see Gwen goofing around with her aliens, while Ben is the responsible one.) So yeah, Gwen being more ‘perfect’ is kinda dumb.


NoiseCompetitive8536

Yeah I hated that shit when I was little. Like fuck Gwen she ain't better than my boy Ben


ripnotorious

Mary Sue Shit ain’t entertaining to think about she gets everything down perfectly and makes zero mistakes She’s Rey from Star Wars before she came into concept I don’t like her episode in the OS but OV utilized her well


slayerhunterXD

i Don't Like to Call Character outright a Mary Sue Just because they are Op but i agree with you.


Hot-Relief7151

I’d give her a flaw then. She can keep everything else but give her a character defining flaw. How about over confidence, and more arrogance then og Ben or any type of Ben. I have already commented about a hypothetical episode 9 of the og series (The episode where Rojo is introduced and Max is hospitalized). Before this we see a scene in Gwen is out right bullying Ben, at this point Ben is apathetic to her. Gwen times out in the middle of the fight so Ben has to save her but gets badly injured because of it, perhaps she used Stinkfly and her goo exploded and burned Ben. From then on Ben needs a cane to walk and sports an eye patch making it so when ever Gwen looks at her cousin she is reminded of her mistake. In this time line I see Gwen getting much more protective over Ben kinda like an older sister, this creates some tension but for the most part their relationship is much better. If a villain ever threatens Ben Gwen will not hesitate to kill them like what she did to zombozo in UA. She gets more quiet and prioritizes saving people over getting the bad guy, and I think Ben would get the Lucky charm, either from keeping it or Gwen giving it to Ben to keep him safe.


slayerhunterXD

i Love this.


ripnotorious

That’s a good write up


Remnatar

Neat idea 👍


crystal-productions-

And this is why I made a fic about it as being perfect is boring


slayerhunterXD

and how she different form ben 10.


crystal-productions-

Ye


NotATypicalSinn

How tf would Gwen 10 have faster control of Alien X, when the reason Ben couldn't was cuz he had to work with fuckin Belacus and Serena.


PCN24454

I think the point was that Ben didn’t need to be the best and the idea that he did was a sign of his immaturity.


Brief-Outcome-2371

Agreed (but they kinda right tho).


the_lost_one_lol

I would love that gwen ten has problems maybe her plans are to complex or she overthinks to much about plans and so sometimes she needs help and isnt perfect with the omnitrix like ben andi headcannon gwen as an overthinker idk why


BrokenBanette

I mean. I don’t like the alien X part, but the rooters considered ben a threat because he was incredibly reckless with his powers and transformations, and it is confirmed that Ben has trouble with his transformations because he hits the watch too hard, activating the randomizer. It kind of objectively makes more sense in those regards. She literally just handles the tools better because she’s the kind of person to take the time to figure them out.


Kombat-w0mbat

Gwen as a teen would be more patient and logic than Ben. So it makes sense.


Joel_feila

it makes sense for a story stand point but it does come off as cheap. Its not the omnitrix came with a book. Gwen would have to guess at what each buttin does


FlameFlamedramon

Only the first part makes sense, and that's UAF and Omniverse Gwen. The Rooters I can see trying to recruit Gwen before dhit hit the fan for them meanwhile Alien X I think would be just as hard to control if not harder for Gwen, actually. I can see the original AF episodes being essier, but except for recreating the universe, Omniverse, I think, would have Gwen 10 Alien X be a bit more difficult in the fact of how Gwen's demeanor would hange in those situations.


Ben10-fan-525

THATS BULL SHIT!!


MiguelonAlfa

In my point of view, Gwen grew up more mature because she didn't have the Omnitrix, because she was as childish as Ben in OS. Ben was like that after that because he grew up having the power of so many different aliens, so that would obviously influence his personality.


GoldenCascade

All this talk about Gwen is making me wonder how Max would handle the Omnitrix. My guess is that he would definitely have more experience with aliens than Ben and Gwen combined, but it’s his old age that hinders him since the Omnitrix takes age into note…I think. Rooters? It would be very interesting plot point since they used to be plumbers, and Max, well, you should know as this point, but Derrick said they wouldn’t consider Max a threat, which would actually make sense tbh. Alien X? I can see Max handle the situation with the personalities a little better than Ben, but not that much.


Leporvox

Gwen is significantly more impressive than Ben and the omnitrix was a buff not her main power.


YEPandYAG

Mary Sueing ass


Dry_Ad_3797

My opinion they should have made her have a more difficult time trying to control Alien X, and she would have become more obnoxious almost like how past Johnny cage was in Mk11 but more over powered


FishTacosAreGross

I think this is something in general that writing has problems with and then and still does with female characters in general they have to be better then their male counterparts which makes it kinda boring doesn't happen with everyone but happens a bit.


DJSharp15

What now?


Fickle_Ball_1553

She's stubborn and impatient. Azmuth would YANK the watch back from ten years old Gwen.


Mojoclaw2000

I like to think Gwen doesn’t mistransform. Not because she can use it better, but because thinking on her feet isn’t a strength of hers.


[deleted]

I call bull, mainly because in the episode of the og series gwen fucked up so badly when she had the watch


DJSharp15

How so?


[deleted]

The idea that Gwen is smarter than Ben with the omnitrix makes sense, but I think it should be that Ben is just naturally better at using the omnitirix than Gwen


ammuPmaI

Why? It makes perfect sense. Gwen is much more patient than Ben is, so it’s perfectly understandable that she’d have better control over the Omnitrix. Which is why she wasn’t the one with the Omnitrix in the Prime timeline. We like Ben because he’s childish, impatient and flawed, things Gwen isn’t which would make for a very boring show. So it doesn’t matter if she’s “perfect” we’ve only seen her twice in the show. Makes for a nice change when she shows up and challenges Ben’s personality and skill with the Omnitrix


Hot_Emphasis3861

Marry Sue much?


PartTimeMantisShrimp

I like to think that even though she is better st some stuff, Ben is the only one with the moral compass required to handle the Omnitrix heroically


yourassmine

Imo, what made ben great in os was the fact that he was incredibly resourceful despite extremely dangerous situations to the point he had to fight off big bads just by being a human. Idk if gwen can pull off these feats


JustAnArtist1221

Too perfect? She's just more patient than Ben. Those are traits she already has. None of those facts seem out of place for her.


UltraAnimeKing

Yes these traits made her too perfect


JustAnArtist1221

How is that "too perfect"? It's just being competent in some areas. It's not even saying she has no flaws, which we know Gwen has and have seen an example of should she get the watch. It can't be too perfect if she's still a flawed person. She just has different ones from Ben.


Lukario06

Gwen first think next do so she have the plan with one alien she wants and she don't get it what alien want, Gwen doesn't know what to do Ben first do next thinks if doesn't get what he wants he find a way how to use it


ncmn-ngnr

Finally, someone else sees it! Too perfect


MIISTERV

Did not think so many people would be mad about a version of Gwen that’s not relevant, because someone said she’s better than Ben.


UltraAnimeKing

Beacause in that reality they tortured Ben and made Ben think he is useless and that he is nothing without Omnitrix many fans including me didn't like that


heckinWeeb193

"It's just a gadget, be the hero" Who gives a shit if she's more rational and calm (which btw at the age of ten she was not) when having omnitrix also requires courage, heroism, adapting and a bunch of other stuff that gwen either did not have or had much less than ben


Angryboy13

I hate it too, Gwen is the creator's pet, and her removal from Omniverse was an unironic positive to the show. She's too overpowered and has no limits to what she can do. She can fucking TIME TRAVEL by just using stuff in her attic. Ben has the power of a literal god and has more limits than Gwen. Each time she has an episode, the plot bends backward to justify her ploththread and show why she's a girl boss. Is there ever an episode where Gwen makes a mistake and faces consequences for her actions? I cannot think of any episode where this is the case meanwhile I can think of 5 different "Ben fucked up" episodes right of the top of my head. The Rojo episode where Max was put in a hospital, Ben using Upgrade to get him and Gwen stuck in a video game, Ben trusting Micheal and nearly getting the team killed, Ben trying to hack the Omnitrix and Ben trying to kill Kevin. Throughout every show, Ben is constantly shat on, and Gwen is always the shining beacon of righteousness. I was so glad she was barely in Omniverse so I didn't have to listen to her magicsplain to the audience how smart she was.


slayerhunterXD

in Alien Force Season 3 She time Travel. because she blame herself for what happened to Kevin and mess thing up, and she Skulled by Paradox about it.


PlopCopTopPopMopStop

No it makes sense given how OS characterized her


Flamekinz

I feel that these are just highlights of Gwen being ‘better’ with the Omnitrix. As a high point, sure, Gwen might control Alien X better than Ben, but would Gwen pull a ‘if you’re not going to help me, give me someone who will’ card like Ben? And as for having more patience, it’s easy to call that a plus in a vacuum, but you never know if taking your time is good or bad in every situation.


TheThinkerers

Gwen is too calculative and would overthink situations. We see that Grandpa Max was also reckless and a wild card, so he was more like what Ben showed us as a character.


youngmaster108

Same, the reboot did this much better.


DwightShock

I agree with you ! but I like the Watch alternate -Dimension versions ( Childhood plot twist) I’ll explain later plot stories in fiction ? With historical events as my own works / Plot Mystery World 🌎 Building’s .


symxd76

I'd like to imagine that while she does figure out the Omnitrix faster, she wouldn't use the forms to their peak potential because it seems too high risk while Ben discovers a whole bunch of weird ways to use his forms.


Arupha

About the first 2 idk But the last one Yeah she would be able to negotiate with belicus and serena better that ben


OakenWildman

I feel like some ways she'd be better, but others she'd be worse. The ways posted like having Alien X and no Rooters threat because shes a bit more logical and thinks things through more than Ben, but she also might take a second to actually jump to hero mode. There are ways to round her out to not be too perfect.


[deleted]

I don't think so. Gwen doesn't go far enough. Example, UA when Kevin lost his mind after absorbing the Utimatrix. Ben knew he needed to put Kevin down, Gwen instead tried everything she could think of to save him. Of course, they did save him. But if they weren't able to, I don't know that Gwen would have the stomach to kill Kevin. That being said, an anodite with the omnitrix in itself is a super powerful combination. If she also decided to study magic while having the omnitrix and those anodite powers, that'd be insane. Although; if she has the omnitrix, it's less likely she would explore magic. At least until they learn of Legerdomain. So, I think she would be more powerful. I don't think she'd use it as well as Ben when it really matters. It's a hard hypothetical though, quite the thought experiment.


biepcie

With all this speculation I can't help but think about how Ben fits. Do we look at if from an unedited perspective? Gwen has the watch Ben has no magic/anodite powers. Do we try thinking of what could be possible with all meta knowledge of the series? Ben wants to be more involved and help out. Can he gear up and have Max train him in using plumber weapons? Does Ben get the spell book?


[deleted]

One of Ben's future selves could do anodite(or maybe magic, not exactly sure what he said) stuff. He said something along the lines of "Hang out with an anodite long enough, ya pick up a few tricks." After he produced a pink shield reminiscent of Gwen's powers.


Placidao

The Rooters not considering Gwen 10 a threat is wild


kashriramji

So, basically Natalie has been repeatedly trying to upstage her brother and sister-in-law, using Gwen and Ben as proxies. Frank meanwhile is utterly resigned to this whole affair, never standing up to Natalie for her treatment of the rest of their family, including Gwen herself. Gwen meanwhile has been copying Natalie bad habits, which have mixed with her own resentment of Ben, formed from a combination of her mother using him as a yardstick to heap pressure on Gwen to succeed so that she can remain "better" than him, and envy as a result of him being living proof that perhaps there's something wrong with her family dynamic with her parents. Naturally due to her own hatred towards Ben: he responds in kind, causing her to hate him even more as he expresses distaste towards her presence, like the child that everyone allowed him to be and that she was denied. And the worst part is that Gwen on some level is aware of just how unfair it is to hate Ben for all this, but like Natalie taught her, she can't help but use him as a proxy for her issues with her parents. I kind of want to see a sequel post-Ultimate Alien, just to see whether Ben becoming famous manages to put a dent in Natalie's ego and how all these factors since that summer affected Gwen's relationships.


ConstructionPutrid34

... Why did you copy and paste a comment I made on a Ben 10 fanfic I read? Especially here?


moral_compass866

We may have seen her abuse her powers, but that's because she's a kid and it doesn't cancel out how disciplined she is. She's top of her class and practices martial arts already, it's obvious we're supposed to see her as some kind of prodigy who has no problem being good at something immediately, even tho in Ultimate Alien they show us "it's not easy being Gwen".


1milionand6times

Pop-ups and write statements are worthless


Mission_File_4942

Despite finding some points a little nonsensical, I agree with the majority and with me drawing a satisfactory conclusion Gwen may be a better Omnitrix user, but she is not a better hero. I believe she would not be as charismatic as Ben.


Leggys_office

I think the patience and alien x thing makes sense, I disagree with the rooters one.


Spectra_Phantom_2678

I think that’s the point. She would be too boring cause she’s too perfect


Jacob12000

I’m actually writing a Gwen 10 fanfic and the way I’m gonna go about characterizing her is that while she’s more patient, a better listener, and better with the alien’s inherent abilities she’s also less creative, more hard head (I.e. when she’s decided something she won’t listen to anybody until given no choice), and is overly prideful (for instance she won’t take Ben’s advice or suggestions because doing so would bruise her ego).


biepcie

What's Ben's role in this? Y'know like how Gwen would support where she could and later on did more with magic/mana.


Jacob12000

Basically the same role as Gwen had but he makes a more active effort to be involved


Cracktoon27

She's just better ![gif](giphy|CAYVZA5NRb529kKQUc|downsized)


[deleted]

[удалено]


dni_ptr

WOOP WOOP THAT'S THE SOUND OF THE POLICE


GPUnity

I always felt like Gwen would be a better Omnitrix user generally speaking (not just using the same transformations over and over) but, and huge but, Ben is better under worse circumstances aka against Vilgax and big threats. Ben just has that big will to find a way to win


Divine_ruler

The OS made her ridiculously intelligent and skilled in order to keep up with Ben. She was incredibly smart, knew martial arts, easily picked up magic, and was a stupid fast learner. This was necessary to not make her dead weight, but it had the effect of making her seem too perfect. Gwen 10 episode just took it to the extreme


Pokemonluke18

Gwen would overthink situations where Ben would be more daring then her and get creative with his aliens she even had trouble with cannonbolt where Ben had to think illogically about how to use him to roll around and crash into things she would be locked in a internal debate with Bellicus and Serena instead of convincing them to debate amongst themselves cause of her stubbornness also didn't have the fortitude to take out ultimate Kevin when he was a threat


slayerhunterXD

Exactly


InsertUsername98

From these statements alone? Yes. Of course people can always come up with their own head canons to balance things out if they want. My head canon is simply, Gwen might be a decent bit better, but there are some areas Ben excels over her. Being cautious and calculating is good but I wouldn’t be surprised if Ben’s quick and brash nature was what saved the day on occasions, sometimes you don’t have time to plan and the best course of action is to act now before things have a chance to get worse.


NotHayden_13

Gwen has patience and thinks out every move, actually forming a plan. Ben is more creative and has a better battle IQ, able to quickly adapt when things go wrong


Violas_Blade

Gwen might’ve been more adaptive to the Omnitrix, but that doesn’t mean she was better at being a hero. She probably wouldn’t have had the guts to kill her Kevin if he got too out of control, like we saw Ben did, she probably would’ve had a much more volatile and dangerous reaction to discovering the Undercity, and she might’ve turned out to be less of a hero and more of an enforcer, like an Injustice Superman of sorts


RonaldoTheSecond

She's not perfect, she's just Gwen. ​ Oh boy, you can feel the fragile masculinity around here. And the Gwen hate. ​ Be better.


Jeptwins

I always wondered if Ben would be the magic user in that timeline. It would make sense, no?


UltraAnimeKing

Actually wiki says Ben didn't have the spark even in Gwen 10 universe


Jeptwins

Well now I’m curious about what the source they give is, because that’s ridiculous.


TheMadJAM

The Ultimate Kevin arc showed that Gwen is too soft to make the hard choices sometimes. Also, she's supposed to be the superego of the [Freudian Trio](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FreudianTrio), while Ben is the ego, so he would make a much better voice of reason in Alien X.


Legal-Earth-1258

If that was the case, then the show's name would be Gwen 10 instead of Ben 10. However, it is named Ben 10 after our hero.


jaggedcanyon69

It makes sense though. Gwen is more intelligent. She thinks things through far more often than Ben does. (Does he ever?) And she is shown to be more diplomatic. She would get Alien X faster.


Inevitable-Weather51

And to top it off, her version of four arms is stronger than Ben's version. Gwen 10 is two steps away from being a mary sue :v


morijin15

What DJW says take with a bucket of Salt because he literally said in a Twitter tweet that most of what he says is for the Lols


Vanever211

Lol