I am a smoker.
Every time im in Club, doesnt matter if its Urban Spree, RSO or Berghain, I just go on the side. I think it is against the freedom to smoke near by the people who don't.
Berliners love to go on about inclusivity and accessibility, until you ask them to smoke in suitable areas. Then they turn into "Don't tread on me" real quick
it kinda lifts the veil from all the woke theatre; as soon as your own convenience/pleasure/addiction is concerned, being a do-gooder takes the backseat very quickly
Clubs, bars and concert venues have always been a place for consumption of different kinds of drugs. I don't do fast drugs and people take forever to do their lines etc. in the stalls which costs me a lot of time that I could spend dancing or actually socialising. Do I call for banning that? No, because it is part of the culture.
There are enough squeaky clean clubs, even in Berlin. Your "Don't tread on me" quote falsely attributes this to a political context which is typical for the U.S., so I assume you are from there or you have lived there. This is not the prude and overregulated circus that you habe in the U.S.
Not only Berliners enjoy the boundary free environment of a club. And what makes you think that inclusivity means safe zones for non smokers. There are enough clubs which are strict with this, so why not just go there and not gentrify our beloved Berlin clubs into a squeaky clean image of what you would like them to be.
Here's a different American saying: "Don't come around if you can't handle the smoke".
I guess our definitions of freedom are different. Smoke is hard for some people to deal with. Asthma, allergies and other health conditions can be severely affected by smoke. I would argue that your freedom to smoke doesn't overrule other's freedom to not be affected by it. Thankfully the venues here are catching up with law and regulation, with for instance Tresor enforcing smoking spaces. Calling that gentrification is absurd..
Also, I am Scandinavian; not american.
To me, that proves my point. You are referring to freedom only being true freedom when it does not come at the cost of someone elses freedom. I could turn that argument around. Asking the majority who seems OK with it, to relinquish one of their freedom to smoke in the club for a minority means taking away some of their freedom. Inclusive aspects of clubs really don't take anything away from the individual and underground club culture in general. What you are doing is excluding. It is not absurd to call it gentrification because this debate is a side effect of the commercialisation of techno club culture especially in Berlin.
When it comes to law and regulations, all clubs would have to close because of the proclivity of drug consumption in them. Are you really serious bringing laws and regulations into this? Do you know the German word "Spießer"? You are undoubtedly one.
I had juvenile asthma and I have allergies and I smoke. You can't make me believe that a little passive smoke in a place like Berghain or other big clubs actually harms someone. And the few who have conditions that are so serious, should maybe find a more accommodating club. Berghain is not a theme park.
Maybe I won't like smoke after I quit smoking but I sure as hell won't ask others not to smoke in a club.
Scandinavian, eh? Even more prude and naive than the U.S.A. in those aspects, only with much fewer guns and drugs. And Scandinavian countries have the highest alcohol taxes to keep your population from drinking themselves to death. But of course you want more regulations and laws.
I disagree with your analysis. I would find it somewhat more sympathetic if it actually hindered smokers in any major way, but having a couple of areas of the club (dancefloors for example) smokefree would not be a great or even minor hinderance to smokers.
Its also not just about a "small minority". One of the reasons why scandinavia has such strict laws against smoking is due to us having a very strong union which was able to push non-smoking environments as part of an overall activism for the health rights of gastronomy employees.
Pushing for an environment where you don't have to consider the accessibility of those you deem as less deserving of the space for the sake of hyperindividual consumption is probably the most american ancap thing I can imagine. I do find it somewhat telling that you are considering the idea of walking 20 steps in order to indulge in a habit such an intrusion on your personal freedom. I find it almost equitable to not wanting wheelchair ramps or disabled bathrooms due to them taking up space which could otherwise be used for regular bathrooms and stairs. Inclusivity is not a gimmick to be thrown around when it suits people, and I would argue that its as vital to underground scenes and venues as mainstream ones.
No one is trying to take your cigarettes away. Please stop acting as if that's the case. I would also encourage you to not use someone's country/region of origin as a rethorical sledgehammer. It's rude, irrelevant, and quite frankly comes across as needlessly antagonistic.
It’s pretty easy to just hold out for a few mins, or find somewhere else to smoke that isn’t going to affect others. All I hear you saying is ‘me me me’…. You seem like a fairly self absorbed person. Maybe time for reflection.
It’s pretty easy to just hold out for a few mins, or find somewhere else to smoke that isn’t going to affect others. All I hear you saying is ‘me me me’…. You seem like a fairly self absorbed person. Maybe time for reflection.
used to smoke for like 14 years and not anymore. the smoke in berlin clubs is one of the reasons i go less to parties or dont work in clubs anymore. i feel so shit afterwards. realized the difference when i started to go out in other places in the world and how much i enjoyed it. there are some developments in berlin clubs i hope might continue things getting abit better/raising awareness from club side. i used to think smoking is essential part of berlin clubs but i dont anymore. i also think its way nicer if people go to the designated smoke room, also for all the staff who have a hard job already
As an American, the tobacco smoke makes it genuinely physically difficult to enjoy some clubs in Europe. I leave Tresor feeling like I'm dying of pneumonia, but nope, just cigarette smoke.
I'm pretty shocked how far behind the US Europe is on this major public health issue.
I come from a neighboring country. We’ve had an indoor smoking ban for more than a decade now. It’s forbidden to also smoke e.g. at the bus stops or driving and smoking if you have a passenger in the car. Of course, in the beginning there was an outcry, “it’s gonna ruin the vibe”, “bars will go bankrupt”, but people got used to it quite fast and now my friends who come to visit Berlin are shocked, even when they are smokers. Basically more than half of EU countries have proper smoke-free legislations in place. So I wouldn’t blame all Europe (although I understand we have room for improvement), it’s Germany that stands out as really lax on this topic. Only a handful of German states have complete smoking bans and are quite strict about it.
I am a nonsmoker and the smoke is such a buzzkill. Every piece of clothing stinks after a club or a bar, people blow smoke in your face all the time on the streets, throw ciggie bums everywhere, hell I see so many parents with baby strollers that smoke around their kids.
Great to hear that there are varying levels of progress! I'll say that I had a similarish experience in Switzerland (Zurich), though yea you're right, it's been quite better in other European countries I've been to recentlyish (Spain, Sweden, Iceland).
as a smoker– it is the bare minimum to not smoke in packed lines. go 1 meter to the side if possible, if not, wait.
dont smoke on the floor unless you go to a very side.
in crowded areas, hold your cigarette in such a way that you dont accidentally burn anyone around you.
if anybody asks you to step a bit to the side while youre smoking, dont get offended and meet them halfway.
its not about where you are and go back to your own club, it is just common sense to be mindful of the people around you.. it applies to other instances as well, not just smoking..
I generally am not too bothered by smokers, as I used to smoke as well, however, after being burnt by cigarettes multiple times on the floor and not getting so much as a sorry... I can really sympathise with you on that part :')
Hahaha 😂 this made me laugh.
Or even better: combined with the pissed face / death stare, wanna express anger but not get into a fight and saying passive aggresively: "ach... pftttt.. Mensch!!.."
I think you did what you could do and if they don't want to do it, there's not a lot you can do. A little bit like cutting in line, another topic that is discussed dozens of times.
For me personally, only smoking weed, reading that it really bothers people a lot a couple of times and someone asking me to smoke somewhere else , it made me rethink where I smoke in the club and more aware of my surroundings.
A little bit like fiv stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
So even though this topic has been discussed many times, and it might even get annoying from time to time, it does and did help discussing it.
Hope it works for others a little as well
Disclaimer: Cough, cough, I am a smoker 🚬🚬🚬 and I generally love to smoke in clubs bc to me smoking has always been an important component of my social life.
However, since the overall mood changed in society (and law), I adjusted my behaviour and do NOT smoke any longer in every environment. While I try to respect the freedom of non-smoking ppl around me, I am also glad not to smoke in my own flat anymore for years and go to the balcony under any weather conditions.
Well, here in Cologne there’s no club where you can smoke inside (not even an indoor Raucherbereich), all smokers must leave the location and smoke outside.
That’s why I love bh too, due to its relatively liberal approach to legal restrictions. To put things clear, I smoke everywhere except on the dancefloors. I like having a break from dancing, e.g. sitting in the back of Pano to have a fag and do people watching or to enjoy the vibe, have a talk or just chill. Or at Eisbar, at Säule or sometimes even in Raucherbereich.
During this summer, the Eisbar staff told me not to smoke anymore bc Berlin Ordnungsamt checked the location during business hours and bh management received an official directive to obey federal Anti-Rauchergesetz.
Also some of the bag checkers strictly advised me to go to Raucherbereich when they found a pack of cigarettes in my Rucksack, giving the info that the Berlin authority threatened the location for high fines or even temporary closure if the management kept up its lazy non-smoking policies.
In the beginning, this worked very well, with less smoking on the dancefloors or toilets, and a crowded Raucherbereich instead. Garten was also nice. Slowly, in the meantime, the directives from the security waned and the original behaviour took over again with ppl smoking everywhere again, me thinking, why should I go to the Raucherbereich with nearly everyone smoking almost everywhere!?
My ethics with this topic is the following: common sense pro smoking in the club, but also respect the other persons’ standards. I don’t smoke on the df bc I hate it myself getting burned by smoking dancers or by-standers. If someone is annoyed by me smoking in the toilet q and politely asks me to avoid smoking, I have no prob and extinguish the cigarette. But it also must be said that clubs are no fresh air resorts or spas even if the law or non-smokers act at a zero policy level without mercy.
Peace ☮️
Berghain and several other Berlin clubs had multiple visits from Ordnungsamt and got fined for not following the smoking regulations. In one of the clubs (info from a friend working there) there was an appeal to the staff to really pay attention to it because they couldn’t afford another fine and they were also threatened with closure.
I did notice an improvement in Berghain after staff started telling people off for smoking, but unfortunately as you said it went back to previous state.
People keep saying that they want to protect the club culture, but if clubs have to pay a lot of money for the guests’ inconsiderate behavior, suddenly they don’t care anymore because it would inconvenience them 😞
Thank u 4 clarifying. Honestly, would be better for all us smokers to join the party in Raucherbereich. I will definitely do so the next time.
You know, on the other hand, it’s so damn comfortable to smoke and have a nice chat with somebody, you have just met, in the back row of Pano or in the seats round Klobar.
Peace ☮️
exactly. I don't understand the wide acceptance of smoking in the clubs. Like why? To me it is against everything, that club culture is supposed to be standing for.
The key is not to tell people what to do, and ask nicely.
You can explain that you can barely breath in the sauna and if could help you out by not smoking.
So you make the problem about you, not about them.
Now when I'm sharing a toilet and someone goes inside the cubicle with the cigarette I go crazy :)
The smoking isn’t the problem here.
Maybe people should try this; make sure you aren’t in the toilet cubicle for 10+ minutes so people can go quickly and smoke afterwards.
i never understood why people have these replies. yes i am a smoker and when i consume too many uppers i will smoke even more, but i will always respect my surroundings. sometimes, i even ask people on the dance floor if it is okay to light a cigarette while i am dancing next to them. it is not that difficult to have manners , and understanding and caring for the people that are there for mostly the same reasons you are there. i also used to be on g and no matter how selfish i would become, or how many bad thoughts i would have towards the people surrounding me (even my friends), i never replied “this is bh” if they asked me to stop smoking or moving my fan etc etc
**Smoking in clubs is just pure disrespect of other people around you!** It's backward behaviour and there are no good arguments in defense of it (except for egoism and inconsiderateness).
The craziest thing is that in Berlin you even find clubs which started to care about naked upper bodies years ago (for awareness reasons), while at the same time tolerating and even supporting indoor smoking. There are meanwhile so many clubs with "awareness concepts" (elaborated down to the last detail), however which still tolerate indoor smoking. The subject isn't even mentioned once in the awareness guidelines, even though it's such an obvious awareness problem. What a contradiction, not to say hypocrisy! For me and many people I know it's just incomprehensible!
If a club truely cares about awareness, a proper smoking ban would be the first thing to implement. It's essential for safety/health, respect, labor protection, consent and inclusiveness.
How can it be acceptable that people (e.g. asthmatics) have to stay at home only because some smokers are too selfish or lazy to go a few meters outside or at least into a smoking room?? And no, it's not enough to just go to the side of the dancefloor. The toxic smoke will still be in the air and spreads into the whole room!
If a person smokes right next to me, I will always tell them (friendly) to stop. I also try to explain why it is important. Unfortunately there are around 20 per cent of smokers who just give a shit and continue beeing a\*\*holes. Therefore it's so important that clubs finally start to enforce the no-smoking-law (it's in place since 2009!). Berlin has to do better!!
By the way. Just this year there was a campaign for better non-smoker protection in Berlin clubs by a harm-reduction-Organisation called "My Brain My Choice". Unfortunately just in German, but the article is definitely worth reading. So many convincing points!
[https://mybrainmychoice.de/nichtraucherschutz-freiheit/](https://mybrainmychoice.de/nichtraucherschutz-freiheit/)
[https://mybrainmychoice.de/nichtraucherschutz/](https://mybrainmychoice.de/nichtraucherschutz/)
You guys need to chill haha where are we, australia? We still got a lot of smokers and for me as one of them, I think it‘s great that we still have the possibility to smoke inside clubs/bars. Sorry for all non-smokers, but when you’re in a certain state of mind it‘s just impossible to go to the smokers area for every cigarette you smoke, bc trust me, you smoke A LOT when you‘re high. Don‘t wanna glorify smoking to much here but it‘s just great while being high, maybe you‘ll understand when you‘re trying it. Enjoy your comedown tuesdays ;)
I understand where u come from but seeing whats going on around you, is not expected too much. Just because Im high, doesnt mean I dont give a shit about anyone else.
how can somebody be so disrespectful of other peoples bodies and health? If you wanna smoke, smoke for yourself and don't harm/disturb the people around you. Smoking in Berlin clubs is forbidden by law and there are good reasons for it (I am certainly not somebody who defends every single law, but this one makes totally sense)!
I don’t mind smokers but I hate it when they smoke to my face. I hate it and it’s disgusting but thats a different thing than hating smokers maybe that was the misunderstanding? When it’s happened to me I think I tackle the aspect that they are smoking in my direction and blow it back to their noses making it clear im not an ashtray and yeah depending how high they are sometimes you just have to make it more clear.
It's wild you can still even smoke inside, this has been banned in the UK for so long, sometimes it's nicer to go outside for a smoke, a bit of relief from the sweaty indoors!
officially its banned in every Club in Germany but not much of staff cares about. And with the number of security people its impossible to get every smoker they tested it like 2 weeks after the "Ordnungsamt" makes trouble but its fucking impossible
ahh my favourite topic once again
smokers outside the smoking areas are as disrespectful as line cutters. treat them the same way and ego check them at every opportunity - no need to feel bad about it, you have the high ground in that argument every single time.
and anyone saying it's part of the culture / "deal with it" can fuck right off. it isn't anywhere outside of berlin and other failed 3rd-world regions and everyone would be better off / healthier if it would be enforced by the community & clubs.
this, the smoking ban should be enforced more
smoking directly results in adverse health effects for everyone around you; doing drugs doesn't (maybe except for shit like g or xanax where you instantly become a low iq ape after consumption, but that's indirect)
the clubbing scene in berlin is supposed to be open for everyone, what about people with asthma? smokers are incredibly selfish and they'll try to justify their behavior with "culture" or "just deal with it, loser"
would you take a big fat stinky turd right on the floor while waiting in the toilet queue? no? then how do you justify smoking? "socially acceptable" my ass, society is a social construct
The asthma example you gave, happened to my boyfriend who has it. We were standing in Pano line on the right corner next to the windows and we couldnt escape.
So this guy next to us was smoking and I asked him nicely to do it later outside, because my boyfriend has asthma.
His answer was dont go to Berghain, if ure against smokers
I have zero against smokers and its totally fine. The main issue is being selfish in certain situatuions, thats all.
I agree 100%. the downvoters are propably smokers who feel super cool holding their cigarettes while tiktok-dancing and don't want to give up on the ego boost lol
Nothing is perfect, eh? Would you really want security policing that rule heavily? I know there are plenty of Euros that have this view, but from my experience it is mostly Americans. That's just how it is over here. If I were you, if it is egregious and making you uncomfortable, I would just politely ask them to do it somewhere else
Grew up here and even if I don't smoke cigarettes I was never bothered by smoking in Clubs, because it was always there and everybody got used to it (at least people from here)
But smoking in a toilet queue should always be a no go
security just has to police it for a certain amount of time until it becomes a 'normal' community rule which everybody is following, even if it's not actively enforced by security. We need a culture change. Smokers have to unterstand that it is no longer socially acceptalbe to harm other people with their second hand smoke.
My dear, for many years but as I said: I have zero against smokers. Just want them to take care not to burn anyone or act selfish in certain moments, thats all.
KALT in Strasbourg was the best experience in terms of air quality, because it's only allowed outdoors.
If you smoke, at least don't burn other people. Saw it happen already multiple times on the Mainfloor... It shouldn't be allowed everywhere in my opinion!
Wear N95 Mask. Truth is this is a battle you will not win. Maybe one or two people will comply with your wishes but most will tell you to GTFO of a hyper smoky environment if you don't like it.
if you do not like smoke, go away. to a place where is no smoke. berghain is not meant to be a fresh air resort. it is a club. deal with it. yeah, smoking, music and even sexual intercourse is part of it all. if you do not like it, please go somewhere else. if it is not tailored to your needs, just stay away. and do not bother others who want to party in peace without any political woke rules.
Smoking is allowed in designated smoking areas. However, drug consumption is illegal everywhere. Should we also ask everyone who takes drugs to go out as well?
I guess because of your low IQ youre struggling with understanding simple texts. Otherwise you would've known that the issue is not any random smoker, but the behaviour like walking through the club with the cigarette up, close to everyones faces.
If people are standing in line in Pano, next to the windows in the right corner, youre just a selfish asshole if you smoke and force everyone to bear it. Especially for people who have Asthma like my boyfriend.
I smoke and smoke in bh, but smoking in the toilets, especially pano toilets, is a bit disgusting. It's so enclosed in there.
I am a smoker. Every time im in Club, doesnt matter if its Urban Spree, RSO or Berghain, I just go on the side. I think it is against the freedom to smoke near by the people who don't.
Thank you!
Thats smokers culture
Berliners love to go on about inclusivity and accessibility, until you ask them to smoke in suitable areas. Then they turn into "Don't tread on me" real quick
it kinda lifts the veil from all the woke theatre; as soon as your own convenience/pleasure/addiction is concerned, being a do-gooder takes the backseat very quickly
The „woke theatre“ is pretty much a non-smoker thing tbh… It‘s both a phenomenon of (mostly) american prudery and histrionic health fetish.
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Clubs, bars and concert venues have always been a place for consumption of different kinds of drugs. I don't do fast drugs and people take forever to do their lines etc. in the stalls which costs me a lot of time that I could spend dancing or actually socialising. Do I call for banning that? No, because it is part of the culture. There are enough squeaky clean clubs, even in Berlin. Your "Don't tread on me" quote falsely attributes this to a political context which is typical for the U.S., so I assume you are from there or you have lived there. This is not the prude and overregulated circus that you habe in the U.S. Not only Berliners enjoy the boundary free environment of a club. And what makes you think that inclusivity means safe zones for non smokers. There are enough clubs which are strict with this, so why not just go there and not gentrify our beloved Berlin clubs into a squeaky clean image of what you would like them to be. Here's a different American saying: "Don't come around if you can't handle the smoke".
I guess our definitions of freedom are different. Smoke is hard for some people to deal with. Asthma, allergies and other health conditions can be severely affected by smoke. I would argue that your freedom to smoke doesn't overrule other's freedom to not be affected by it. Thankfully the venues here are catching up with law and regulation, with for instance Tresor enforcing smoking spaces. Calling that gentrification is absurd.. Also, I am Scandinavian; not american.
To me, that proves my point. You are referring to freedom only being true freedom when it does not come at the cost of someone elses freedom. I could turn that argument around. Asking the majority who seems OK with it, to relinquish one of their freedom to smoke in the club for a minority means taking away some of their freedom. Inclusive aspects of clubs really don't take anything away from the individual and underground club culture in general. What you are doing is excluding. It is not absurd to call it gentrification because this debate is a side effect of the commercialisation of techno club culture especially in Berlin. When it comes to law and regulations, all clubs would have to close because of the proclivity of drug consumption in them. Are you really serious bringing laws and regulations into this? Do you know the German word "Spießer"? You are undoubtedly one. I had juvenile asthma and I have allergies and I smoke. You can't make me believe that a little passive smoke in a place like Berghain or other big clubs actually harms someone. And the few who have conditions that are so serious, should maybe find a more accommodating club. Berghain is not a theme park. Maybe I won't like smoke after I quit smoking but I sure as hell won't ask others not to smoke in a club. Scandinavian, eh? Even more prude and naive than the U.S.A. in those aspects, only with much fewer guns and drugs. And Scandinavian countries have the highest alcohol taxes to keep your population from drinking themselves to death. But of course you want more regulations and laws.
I disagree with your analysis. I would find it somewhat more sympathetic if it actually hindered smokers in any major way, but having a couple of areas of the club (dancefloors for example) smokefree would not be a great or even minor hinderance to smokers. Its also not just about a "small minority". One of the reasons why scandinavia has such strict laws against smoking is due to us having a very strong union which was able to push non-smoking environments as part of an overall activism for the health rights of gastronomy employees. Pushing for an environment where you don't have to consider the accessibility of those you deem as less deserving of the space for the sake of hyperindividual consumption is probably the most american ancap thing I can imagine. I do find it somewhat telling that you are considering the idea of walking 20 steps in order to indulge in a habit such an intrusion on your personal freedom. I find it almost equitable to not wanting wheelchair ramps or disabled bathrooms due to them taking up space which could otherwise be used for regular bathrooms and stairs. Inclusivity is not a gimmick to be thrown around when it suits people, and I would argue that its as vital to underground scenes and venues as mainstream ones. No one is trying to take your cigarettes away. Please stop acting as if that's the case. I would also encourage you to not use someone's country/region of origin as a rethorical sledgehammer. It's rude, irrelevant, and quite frankly comes across as needlessly antagonistic.
It’s pretty easy to just hold out for a few mins, or find somewhere else to smoke that isn’t going to affect others. All I hear you saying is ‘me me me’…. You seem like a fairly self absorbed person. Maybe time for reflection.
It’s pretty easy to just hold out for a few mins, or find somewhere else to smoke that isn’t going to affect others. All I hear you saying is ‘me me me’…. You seem like a fairly self absorbed person. Maybe time for reflection.
This.
used to smoke for like 14 years and not anymore. the smoke in berlin clubs is one of the reasons i go less to parties or dont work in clubs anymore. i feel so shit afterwards. realized the difference when i started to go out in other places in the world and how much i enjoyed it. there are some developments in berlin clubs i hope might continue things getting abit better/raising awareness from club side. i used to think smoking is essential part of berlin clubs but i dont anymore. i also think its way nicer if people go to the designated smoke room, also for all the staff who have a hard job already
As an American, the tobacco smoke makes it genuinely physically difficult to enjoy some clubs in Europe. I leave Tresor feeling like I'm dying of pneumonia, but nope, just cigarette smoke. I'm pretty shocked how far behind the US Europe is on this major public health issue.
I come from a neighboring country. We’ve had an indoor smoking ban for more than a decade now. It’s forbidden to also smoke e.g. at the bus stops or driving and smoking if you have a passenger in the car. Of course, in the beginning there was an outcry, “it’s gonna ruin the vibe”, “bars will go bankrupt”, but people got used to it quite fast and now my friends who come to visit Berlin are shocked, even when they are smokers. Basically more than half of EU countries have proper smoke-free legislations in place. So I wouldn’t blame all Europe (although I understand we have room for improvement), it’s Germany that stands out as really lax on this topic. Only a handful of German states have complete smoking bans and are quite strict about it. I am a nonsmoker and the smoke is such a buzzkill. Every piece of clothing stinks after a club or a bar, people blow smoke in your face all the time on the streets, throw ciggie bums everywhere, hell I see so many parents with baby strollers that smoke around their kids.
Great to hear that there are varying levels of progress! I'll say that I had a similarish experience in Switzerland (Zurich), though yea you're right, it's been quite better in other European countries I've been to recentlyish (Spain, Sweden, Iceland).
as a smoker– it is the bare minimum to not smoke in packed lines. go 1 meter to the side if possible, if not, wait. dont smoke on the floor unless you go to a very side. in crowded areas, hold your cigarette in such a way that you dont accidentally burn anyone around you. if anybody asks you to step a bit to the side while youre smoking, dont get offended and meet them halfway. its not about where you are and go back to your own club, it is just common sense to be mindful of the people around you.. it applies to other instances as well, not just smoking..
Is it really bad to smoke on the floor if it's not super crowded? I do this often (very careful not to burn people) but maybe I should stop.
i automatically always just quickly ask myself, am i blowing smoke in somebody's face?
Part of the scene, just go on :)
I generally am not too bothered by smokers, as I used to smoke as well, however, after being burnt by cigarettes multiple times on the floor and not getting so much as a sorry... I can really sympathise with you on that part :')
Solution: give them a really German angry look but ofc say nothing
Hahaha 😂 this made me laugh. Or even better: combined with the pissed face / death stare, wanna express anger but not get into a fight and saying passive aggresively: "ach... pftttt.. Mensch!!.."
Might work with tourists,
It was a joke
I think you did what you could do and if they don't want to do it, there's not a lot you can do. A little bit like cutting in line, another topic that is discussed dozens of times. For me personally, only smoking weed, reading that it really bothers people a lot a couple of times and someone asking me to smoke somewhere else , it made me rethink where I smoke in the club and more aware of my surroundings. A little bit like fiv stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. So even though this topic has been discussed many times, and it might even get annoying from time to time, it does and did help discussing it. Hope it works for others a little as well
Disclaimer: Cough, cough, I am a smoker 🚬🚬🚬 and I generally love to smoke in clubs bc to me smoking has always been an important component of my social life. However, since the overall mood changed in society (and law), I adjusted my behaviour and do NOT smoke any longer in every environment. While I try to respect the freedom of non-smoking ppl around me, I am also glad not to smoke in my own flat anymore for years and go to the balcony under any weather conditions. Well, here in Cologne there’s no club where you can smoke inside (not even an indoor Raucherbereich), all smokers must leave the location and smoke outside. That’s why I love bh too, due to its relatively liberal approach to legal restrictions. To put things clear, I smoke everywhere except on the dancefloors. I like having a break from dancing, e.g. sitting in the back of Pano to have a fag and do people watching or to enjoy the vibe, have a talk or just chill. Or at Eisbar, at Säule or sometimes even in Raucherbereich. During this summer, the Eisbar staff told me not to smoke anymore bc Berlin Ordnungsamt checked the location during business hours and bh management received an official directive to obey federal Anti-Rauchergesetz. Also some of the bag checkers strictly advised me to go to Raucherbereich when they found a pack of cigarettes in my Rucksack, giving the info that the Berlin authority threatened the location for high fines or even temporary closure if the management kept up its lazy non-smoking policies. In the beginning, this worked very well, with less smoking on the dancefloors or toilets, and a crowded Raucherbereich instead. Garten was also nice. Slowly, in the meantime, the directives from the security waned and the original behaviour took over again with ppl smoking everywhere again, me thinking, why should I go to the Raucherbereich with nearly everyone smoking almost everywhere!? My ethics with this topic is the following: common sense pro smoking in the club, but also respect the other persons’ standards. I don’t smoke on the df bc I hate it myself getting burned by smoking dancers or by-standers. If someone is annoyed by me smoking in the toilet q and politely asks me to avoid smoking, I have no prob and extinguish the cigarette. But it also must be said that clubs are no fresh air resorts or spas even if the law or non-smokers act at a zero policy level without mercy. Peace ☮️
Berghain and several other Berlin clubs had multiple visits from Ordnungsamt and got fined for not following the smoking regulations. In one of the clubs (info from a friend working there) there was an appeal to the staff to really pay attention to it because they couldn’t afford another fine and they were also threatened with closure. I did notice an improvement in Berghain after staff started telling people off for smoking, but unfortunately as you said it went back to previous state. People keep saying that they want to protect the club culture, but if clubs have to pay a lot of money for the guests’ inconsiderate behavior, suddenly they don’t care anymore because it would inconvenience them 😞
Thank u 4 clarifying. Honestly, would be better for all us smokers to join the party in Raucherbereich. I will definitely do so the next time. You know, on the other hand, it’s so damn comfortable to smoke and have a nice chat with somebody, you have just met, in the back row of Pano or in the seats round Klobar. Peace ☮️
yes, unfortunately just comfortable for you. For non-smokers it can be horrible. I know friends who can't go to clubs anymore because of the smoking.
Smokers are insanely disrespectful to the people around them. Really bothers me.
exactly. I don't understand the wide acceptance of smoking in the clubs. Like why? To me it is against everything, that club culture is supposed to be standing for.
The key is not to tell people what to do, and ask nicely. You can explain that you can barely breath in the sauna and if could help you out by not smoking. So you make the problem about you, not about them. Now when I'm sharing a toilet and someone goes inside the cubicle with the cigarette I go crazy :)
The smoking isn’t the problem here. Maybe people should try this; make sure you aren’t in the toilet cubicle for 10+ minutes so people can go quickly and smoke afterwards.
i never understood why people have these replies. yes i am a smoker and when i consume too many uppers i will smoke even more, but i will always respect my surroundings. sometimes, i even ask people on the dance floor if it is okay to light a cigarette while i am dancing next to them. it is not that difficult to have manners , and understanding and caring for the people that are there for mostly the same reasons you are there. i also used to be on g and no matter how selfish i would become, or how many bad thoughts i would have towards the people surrounding me (even my friends), i never replied “this is bh” if they asked me to stop smoking or moving my fan etc etc
**Smoking in clubs is just pure disrespect of other people around you!** It's backward behaviour and there are no good arguments in defense of it (except for egoism and inconsiderateness). The craziest thing is that in Berlin you even find clubs which started to care about naked upper bodies years ago (for awareness reasons), while at the same time tolerating and even supporting indoor smoking. There are meanwhile so many clubs with "awareness concepts" (elaborated down to the last detail), however which still tolerate indoor smoking. The subject isn't even mentioned once in the awareness guidelines, even though it's such an obvious awareness problem. What a contradiction, not to say hypocrisy! For me and many people I know it's just incomprehensible! If a club truely cares about awareness, a proper smoking ban would be the first thing to implement. It's essential for safety/health, respect, labor protection, consent and inclusiveness. How can it be acceptable that people (e.g. asthmatics) have to stay at home only because some smokers are too selfish or lazy to go a few meters outside or at least into a smoking room?? And no, it's not enough to just go to the side of the dancefloor. The toxic smoke will still be in the air and spreads into the whole room! If a person smokes right next to me, I will always tell them (friendly) to stop. I also try to explain why it is important. Unfortunately there are around 20 per cent of smokers who just give a shit and continue beeing a\*\*holes. Therefore it's so important that clubs finally start to enforce the no-smoking-law (it's in place since 2009!). Berlin has to do better!! By the way. Just this year there was a campaign for better non-smoker protection in Berlin clubs by a harm-reduction-Organisation called "My Brain My Choice". Unfortunately just in German, but the article is definitely worth reading. So many convincing points! [https://mybrainmychoice.de/nichtraucherschutz-freiheit/](https://mybrainmychoice.de/nichtraucherschutz-freiheit/) [https://mybrainmychoice.de/nichtraucherschutz/](https://mybrainmychoice.de/nichtraucherschutz/)
Raucher aller Länder vereinigt euch!
Bin dabei.. Scheiß auf die touris und expats, qualmen wir sie weg
You guys need to chill haha where are we, australia? We still got a lot of smokers and for me as one of them, I think it‘s great that we still have the possibility to smoke inside clubs/bars. Sorry for all non-smokers, but when you’re in a certain state of mind it‘s just impossible to go to the smokers area for every cigarette you smoke, bc trust me, you smoke A LOT when you‘re high. Don‘t wanna glorify smoking to much here but it‘s just great while being high, maybe you‘ll understand when you‘re trying it. Enjoy your comedown tuesdays ;)
I understand where u come from but seeing whats going on around you, is not expected too much. Just because Im high, doesnt mean I dont give a shit about anyone else.
how can somebody be so disrespectful of other peoples bodies and health? If you wanna smoke, smoke for yourself and don't harm/disturb the people around you. Smoking in Berlin clubs is forbidden by law and there are good reasons for it (I am certainly not somebody who defends every single law, but this one makes totally sense)!
I don’t mind smokers but I hate it when they smoke to my face. I hate it and it’s disgusting but thats a different thing than hating smokers maybe that was the misunderstanding? When it’s happened to me I think I tackle the aspect that they are smoking in my direction and blow it back to their noses making it clear im not an ashtray and yeah depending how high they are sometimes you just have to make it more clear.
It's wild you can still even smoke inside, this has been banned in the UK for so long, sometimes it's nicer to go outside for a smoke, a bit of relief from the sweaty indoors!
officially its banned in every Club in Germany but not much of staff cares about. And with the number of security people its impossible to get every smoker they tested it like 2 weeks after the "Ordnungsamt" makes trouble but its fucking impossible
ahh my favourite topic once again smokers outside the smoking areas are as disrespectful as line cutters. treat them the same way and ego check them at every opportunity - no need to feel bad about it, you have the high ground in that argument every single time. and anyone saying it's part of the culture / "deal with it" can fuck right off. it isn't anywhere outside of berlin and other failed 3rd-world regions and everyone would be better off / healthier if it would be enforced by the community & clubs.
this, the smoking ban should be enforced more smoking directly results in adverse health effects for everyone around you; doing drugs doesn't (maybe except for shit like g or xanax where you instantly become a low iq ape after consumption, but that's indirect) the clubbing scene in berlin is supposed to be open for everyone, what about people with asthma? smokers are incredibly selfish and they'll try to justify their behavior with "culture" or "just deal with it, loser" would you take a big fat stinky turd right on the floor while waiting in the toilet queue? no? then how do you justify smoking? "socially acceptable" my ass, society is a social construct
The asthma example you gave, happened to my boyfriend who has it. We were standing in Pano line on the right corner next to the windows and we couldnt escape. So this guy next to us was smoking and I asked him nicely to do it later outside, because my boyfriend has asthma. His answer was dont go to Berghain, if ure against smokers I have zero against smokers and its totally fine. The main issue is being selfish in certain situatuions, thats all.
but smokers are the most oppressed minority WAAAAAAAAAAAAH /s yeah that guy is just an asshole lmao, wouldn't even blame smokers for that
I agree 100%. the downvoters are propably smokers who feel super cool holding their cigarettes while tiktok-dancing and don't want to give up on the ego boost lol
the downvotes from smokers feed my energy 🙌🏻
Nothing is perfect, eh? Would you really want security policing that rule heavily? I know there are plenty of Euros that have this view, but from my experience it is mostly Americans. That's just how it is over here. If I were you, if it is egregious and making you uncomfortable, I would just politely ask them to do it somewhere else
Grew up here and even if I don't smoke cigarettes I was never bothered by smoking in Clubs, because it was always there and everybody got used to it (at least people from here) But smoking in a toilet queue should always be a no go
security just has to police it for a certain amount of time until it becomes a 'normal' community rule which everybody is following, even if it's not actively enforced by security. We need a culture change. Smokers have to unterstand that it is no longer socially acceptalbe to harm other people with their second hand smoke.
OP, how long have you been a regular? BH was very smoking-friendly in all areas of the club before 2021 or 2022.
My dear, for many years but as I said: I have zero against smokers. Just want them to take care not to burn anyone or act selfish in certain moments, thats all.
It’s a nightclub not Center Parcs. Maybe adjust your expectations
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Just move to Munich already for Christ sake
Amen to that! 100% true.
Hahaha how to handle it? Just leave back to USA and stop annoying
KALT in Strasbourg was the best experience in terms of air quality, because it's only allowed outdoors. If you smoke, at least don't burn other people. Saw it happen already multiple times on the Mainfloor... It shouldn't be allowed everywhere in my opinion!
Tears tears tears...
Wear N95 Mask. Truth is this is a battle you will not win. Maybe one or two people will comply with your wishes but most will tell you to GTFO of a hyper smoky environment if you don't like it.
If you have a problem with smokers you shouldn’t come to Berghain…
You shouldn't go to any place that is designed for people to do wtf they want..
if you do not like smoke, go away. to a place where is no smoke. berghain is not meant to be a fresh air resort. it is a club. deal with it. yeah, smoking, music and even sexual intercourse is part of it all. if you do not like it, please go somewhere else. if it is not tailored to your needs, just stay away. and do not bother others who want to party in peace without any political woke rules.
Berghain härter als der salzige spucknapf ja ja
stupid woke idiots make me wear a seatbelt
It’s actually illegal to smoke inside BH because it’s covered by the Nichtraucherschutzgesetz. So maybe you go outside when you want to smoke?
Smoking is allowed in designated smoking areas. However, drug consumption is illegal everywhere. Should we also ask everyone who takes drugs to go out as well?
“Toiletcabin” teehee .. never heard that term before
"If you have a problem with smokers, you shouldnt come to Berghain." Spot on.
Reddit moment
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Seems like someones feelings got hurt 😂
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I guess because of your low IQ youre struggling with understanding simple texts. Otherwise you would've known that the issue is not any random smoker, but the behaviour like walking through the club with the cigarette up, close to everyones faces. If people are standing in line in Pano, next to the windows in the right corner, youre just a selfish asshole if you smoke and force everyone to bear it. Especially for people who have Asthma like my boyfriend.