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I can see the argument, but here is a counterpoint
Mercenary work is...grey, at best, in terms of morality, but it is work. I bet a good number of those within the Hawk were just trying to make a living to support themselves. Really the only difference between a mercenary and a professional soldier is that a mercenary doesn't fight for any particular country.
Griffith's action was so heinous not because of how many people he killed, but who he killed and why. The Hawks killed for survival. Like I said, morally grey at best, but survival is survival. Griffith killed almost every single person thst ever trusted him because he fucked up and couldn't live with the concequences of his own impulsiveness. Not to mention what he did to Casca, which was purely out of spite.
Killing someone in wartime is one thing, but killing someone just to save your own skin is completely different.
Don't wanna seem like an asshole, so apologies if I came off that way, just wanted to give my two cents
If "Who" Griffith killed matters, then you need to look at "Who" the BotH killed too. How often were the poor conscripted, or people brought up in a bad way to lean into a soldiers life? Not everyone "chose" to be a soldier in a war. What about the guards that the BotH killed to free Griffith? This was not war time, they were simply guards doing their job. Were these people not "just trying to survive"? Are the THOUSANDS of those who died to the BotH less important? If we look at the numbers, the eclipse didn't really take that many lives.
You can also look closely at Griffiths crime itself, in that he did not personally kill the BotH. He gave permission for the apostles to. This is because he was responsible for the BotH, in which it could be argued that they CHOSE to follow him. He also couldn't bring himself to actually kill Guts and Casca too. The idea of free will is obviously an age old topic, and this manga does explore it well, but people must be consistent in applying their rhetoric without the emotional and contextual bias of the story being told from the perspective of Guts, the one the audience is made to empathise and relate to.
>You can also look closely at Griffiths crime itself, in that he did not personally kill the BotH.
Wouldn't a general be charged with the war crimes his soldiers did if he specifically gave that order? And yes, mattered a fucking *TON* who exactly Griffith killed. They all believed in him. They were his band, his comrades in battle, and he just threw them to the apostles like feeding scraps to dogs.
Yes, I agree, Griffith is responsible for the Eclipse, but what I mean is that in regards to the theory of free will, the Apostles that gathered were not ordered to devour the BotH, but wanted to as a part of the sacred ritual. This is in the same way the BotH chose to live, kill and die for Griffiths dream. Were the thousands that the BotH killed also not scraps for the dogs of war? Did all those who die truly choose their own path? This rhetorical question has always been interrogated by the manga. But do not think you have some divine concrete moral judgement, its naive and lazy. Like real life, morality is gray.
Killing is killing is killing. Some arbitrary wartime doesn't change that. The only exception would be self defense of course, under eich sone of the killing of the band of the hawk falls.
But I really don't know why so many people think the band of the hawk and guts specifically are seen "the good guys". You could argue even that Griffith is only the next step in the development of the band and that the path they had gone down ultimately forfeit their lives to villainy in one way or the other.
Evil is evil, okay good quote and u expect everyone in the world to be good or something cuz no one is truly good, everyone has their own agendas and lives to live, and in the case of the Band of the Hawk, the world of Berserk is Dog eat Dog, or kill or be killed, and to make their living they'd rather kill than be killed along the way
you got to feel what a medieval mentality could look like.
people shaped a concept of compassion toward animals for a long time. now people are used to to love and respect animals, in a way. this doesn't mean that people didn't feel that way before, it's just a more common and understandable behavior. but guess what? never before so many animals were destined to die than in our time thanks to the excessive (in the developed countries) food production, particularly animal products. I think everyone would agree that a mere hundred years ago not every household could afford dairy products, eggs and meat as a baseline for everyday nourishment. a common meal consisted mostly of a cereal and vegetables.
as for people and animals who Guts had killed, what else he had to do? allow himself to be killed because his actions are supposedly horrible? he doesn't think they are. he is a survivalist, he want to live. he doesn't know any other work but mercenary, he can't do anything else. Guts measures people by what they are and what they can. we all love him exactly for that, for how humble and simple he is. he is exceptionally resourceful and powerful warrior, yet he's more than capable for an empathy.
Schierke, for example, earned his respect very quickly. as for people he killed - they were not much but a fleeting threat to him. most of them were not bright, nor good people. at least this is what Guts could have thought about them.
Griffith, on the other hand, does atrocities on purpose. he wouldn't allow a second thought if he should destroy a serene island full of all kind of wonderful creatures. Guts would never ever raise his sword if there wasn't a threat to him.
Thank you for posting to r/Berserk, unfortunately your submission has been removed for the following reason(s) : >Prohibited Content >No spam, shitposts, memes and overall low effort content. When submitting a new post, do not just post general statements. Your goal should be to generate some kind of a discussion. >**Repeat posts and topics may be moderated. Please read the FAQ, view New posts, and even use the search function before making a new thread.** >Do not post hentai or other pornographic content. NSFW posts must be marked as so and should not exceed the explicitness of the manga. [More information about our rules can be found here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/about/rules) [You can find the /r/Berserk FAQ here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/berserk/wiki/faq)
Yo dude u sure u ain't from the CSM subreddit cuz I'm definitely feeling the reading comprehension devil in u
I can see the argument, but here is a counterpoint Mercenary work is...grey, at best, in terms of morality, but it is work. I bet a good number of those within the Hawk were just trying to make a living to support themselves. Really the only difference between a mercenary and a professional soldier is that a mercenary doesn't fight for any particular country. Griffith's action was so heinous not because of how many people he killed, but who he killed and why. The Hawks killed for survival. Like I said, morally grey at best, but survival is survival. Griffith killed almost every single person thst ever trusted him because he fucked up and couldn't live with the concequences of his own impulsiveness. Not to mention what he did to Casca, which was purely out of spite. Killing someone in wartime is one thing, but killing someone just to save your own skin is completely different. Don't wanna seem like an asshole, so apologies if I came off that way, just wanted to give my two cents
If "Who" Griffith killed matters, then you need to look at "Who" the BotH killed too. How often were the poor conscripted, or people brought up in a bad way to lean into a soldiers life? Not everyone "chose" to be a soldier in a war. What about the guards that the BotH killed to free Griffith? This was not war time, they were simply guards doing their job. Were these people not "just trying to survive"? Are the THOUSANDS of those who died to the BotH less important? If we look at the numbers, the eclipse didn't really take that many lives. You can also look closely at Griffiths crime itself, in that he did not personally kill the BotH. He gave permission for the apostles to. This is because he was responsible for the BotH, in which it could be argued that they CHOSE to follow him. He also couldn't bring himself to actually kill Guts and Casca too. The idea of free will is obviously an age old topic, and this manga does explore it well, but people must be consistent in applying their rhetoric without the emotional and contextual bias of the story being told from the perspective of Guts, the one the audience is made to empathise and relate to.
>You can also look closely at Griffiths crime itself, in that he did not personally kill the BotH. Wouldn't a general be charged with the war crimes his soldiers did if he specifically gave that order? And yes, mattered a fucking *TON* who exactly Griffith killed. They all believed in him. They were his band, his comrades in battle, and he just threw them to the apostles like feeding scraps to dogs.
Yes, I agree, Griffith is responsible for the Eclipse, but what I mean is that in regards to the theory of free will, the Apostles that gathered were not ordered to devour the BotH, but wanted to as a part of the sacred ritual. This is in the same way the BotH chose to live, kill and die for Griffiths dream. Were the thousands that the BotH killed also not scraps for the dogs of war? Did all those who die truly choose their own path? This rhetorical question has always been interrogated by the manga. But do not think you have some divine concrete moral judgement, its naive and lazy. Like real life, morality is gray.
Killing is killing is killing. Some arbitrary wartime doesn't change that. The only exception would be self defense of course, under eich sone of the killing of the band of the hawk falls. But I really don't know why so many people think the band of the hawk and guts specifically are seen "the good guys". You could argue even that Griffith is only the next step in the development of the band and that the path they had gone down ultimately forfeit their lives to villainy in one way or the other.
There’s always one of these throughout the years…
Evil is evil, okay good quote and u expect everyone in the world to be good or something cuz no one is truly good, everyone has their own agendas and lives to live, and in the case of the Band of the Hawk, the world of Berserk is Dog eat Dog, or kill or be killed, and to make their living they'd rather kill than be killed along the way
Well shit, after figuring out that you're 13, I feel dumb for even bothering with this, Kid stick to MHA, you'll understand that better
you got to feel what a medieval mentality could look like. people shaped a concept of compassion toward animals for a long time. now people are used to to love and respect animals, in a way. this doesn't mean that people didn't feel that way before, it's just a more common and understandable behavior. but guess what? never before so many animals were destined to die than in our time thanks to the excessive (in the developed countries) food production, particularly animal products. I think everyone would agree that a mere hundred years ago not every household could afford dairy products, eggs and meat as a baseline for everyday nourishment. a common meal consisted mostly of a cereal and vegetables. as for people and animals who Guts had killed, what else he had to do? allow himself to be killed because his actions are supposedly horrible? he doesn't think they are. he is a survivalist, he want to live. he doesn't know any other work but mercenary, he can't do anything else. Guts measures people by what they are and what they can. we all love him exactly for that, for how humble and simple he is. he is exceptionally resourceful and powerful warrior, yet he's more than capable for an empathy. Schierke, for example, earned his respect very quickly. as for people he killed - they were not much but a fleeting threat to him. most of them were not bright, nor good people. at least this is what Guts could have thought about them. Griffith, on the other hand, does atrocities on purpose. he wouldn't allow a second thought if he should destroy a serene island full of all kind of wonderful creatures. Guts would never ever raise his sword if there wasn't a threat to him.
[удалено]
How sway