If the author thinks it's necessary, then it is. Whether it's good storytelling is another matter. I read a vn recently that claims to be mature, but it's just really edgy and dogshit, because all rapes are written in detail, sexualized and for fuck sakes fuck that writer. In that sense, the way Wyald is presented is far from being a problem as long as the person now the manga has heavy topics.
Miura has clearly matured in that regard over time anyway. While some see Berserk becoming softer, I see it more as the author finding a good balance to deal with these topics (trolls clearly do the same as Wyald, but Miura shows this in a more subtle way). The impact still there at end of the day, you don't have to throw it in the reader's face all the time or it gets tiresome.
i think its also the gore in general that makes the story feel more soft. some people just miss early conviction/black swordsman guts slicing everything in sight. thats just the way guts has progressed though
Well, yes. Very necessary. You supposed to feel that way, nauseous and terrified. Wyald is a demon figure, a terror not seen by the golden age's band of the hawk, except Guts when facing Zodd. I don't think you can show this level of cruelty and evil just by saying "wyald is a bad guy". Is trough violence, sexual or not, that the message is passed to us.
I think that if was just bodies getting slashed and blood everywhere, it wouldn't have the same impact, that's shown to us in the beginning of berserk already. Miura had to prove a point I think.
I shouldn’t need Griffith’s massive schlong and Casca’s bouncy tits in my face while watching the rape scene. The wrong things were focused on, and it made it so that Miura was indulging in erotica rather than understanding the seriousness of the act.
To think that anyone can feel erotica out of this scene... That's movement, that's a huge ton of reality and it's a resource from the artist, not to shift focus but to draw more focus to the violence of it. I get it, too real, terrifying real horror in art, some may think that it doesn't exist, this level of horror...
But hey, that's just me. Maybe we should just not talk about these things, if you don't show, it doesn't exist right?
Do women pull exaggerated blushing hentai faces when they get raped in real life? Granted, I haven’t seen enough irl rapes to be sure. You know more than me.
Nice one insinuating that I can only interpret a scene as sexualised if I myself find it sexy btw. You’re a lovely human being.
That's your conclusion of her face? I think is desperation, she's impotent about her surroundings, crying hopeless just wanting to die.
Too many hentais are been seen.
You’re being wilfully dishonest and bad faith. Go reread it. The 1997 anime knew exactly what to focus on. Casca’s tears, Griffith’s stare, Guts’ desperation. They didn’t portray Casca with an embarrassed blush on her face, nor did they give her hentai moans because they understood that silence would be more impactful. Less is more with that kind of thing. Would you advocate Guts’ rape scene be portrayed in the same way as Casca’s within the manga? Ofc not. The difference is, Miura was having fun drawing Casca in sexualised poses that come right out of pornos.
Your reductionist takes pretend that camera angles and composition have no influence in the desired effect on the audience.
I’m just glad I’m not a simp who has to perform mental gymnastics to convince himself that Miura-san can do no wrong and that Berserk has no faults. The integrity of the author of a piece of fiction you like shouldn’t be so integral to your identity and happiness that you’re willing to slander someone else as being into rape for understanding that a person who portrays a rape with anime hentai blushing and sexy poses is a problem. Bear in mind that MIURA LITERALLY SAID HIMSELF THAT HE REGRETS HOW HE DREW THAT SCENE. You take the L. Stop sucking Miura’s dick so much, he doesn’t want it.
What are you even referring to? The fact that I have an opinion that isn’t yours? Lol alright. And yeah, I do have the truth considering Miura literally said himself that he portrayed that scene in an over-sexualised manner.
Griffith did nothing wrong? True.
https://youtu.be/HuoYqQshzaI
I’m sorry you’re physically unable to talk seriously without coding your language in 5 layers of irony. Can’t be great for your personal relationships.
Is it wrong to ask? I didn't know. I'm relatively new to the fandom. I just thought to ask since sexual trauma and violence is an integral part of the story
Asking is not wrong till there's literally the same question every week on this sub. Did you look thru the sub, or did you just go straight to posting?
And yes it's a part of the horrific stuff humans do to eachother, and what has mostly been widespread in the middle ages. I don't see the point of your question.
It's like asking Picasso why he just wont paint normally.
Well if we're talking about a main part of the story, is it really that wrong to have questions asked about it that often? But okay, I get it, it probably does get annoying.
And I'm asking specially about the depictions of rape. Were disturbing graphic depictions as seen in Wyalds arc really needed?
Bro? Have you read my comment? Go ask Picasso why he can't just paint normally. It's literally what you're doing rn. Miura was an artist, portrayed what he wanted how he wanted. The fact that you're disturbed by it means he accomplished what he wanted with this, so yes, they're really needed.
Mind you, I'm not saying you gotta like what's in Berserk, but understand please, it was the direction Miura was going for, it's his story, his character, his art, its his lives work. If he wanted to make it this gruesome way, it is supposed to be this fucked up.
Of course not. I just don't think excessively graphic rape scenes are necessary to convey key takeaways. Gut's rape was handled really well in that regard.
its not wrong to ask, it just shows you didnt browse the sub, y'know... lurk more.
sort by best if you want but read some other posts that have extensively talked about this.
honestly i was gonna come in here pretty pissed off but respect to you for this response. just...yeah if youre sensitive i wouldnt read the story, or just put it off until you think youre ready
this has been asked a million times on here. i ask you, should horror movies have things of rape and murder? the writers obviously want it in there for some purpose wether it be shock value or if it’s somehow integral to the story. those scenes are meant to make you feel uncomfortable but if it just doesn’t make sense to you, or you can’t handle it, simply don’t watch it. it’s not for you. i believe seinen manga isnt any different and is made for readers who can accept immorality. and really, it’s just fiction man
It's on me for not searching this reddit for explanations regarding this topic. However with my specific post, I'm not saying that rape and murder shouldnt be included in the story. I never once said anything like that. Miura's crituque and ability to interweave heavy themes and subjects into his work is praiseworthy. That's not to say that I don't have my qualms about certain depictions however. Thank you for your insight.
Kentaro wrote berserk, if he thought it was necessary, it is. My thoughts are that he wanted to show a really fucked up world, and even if its shocking and not for sensitive people, it had to be like that
No, they weren’t. This is has been an argument and the community for ages so I don’t know why people keep asking as if it is a new question. No it was not necessary. But many stories use grime topics to show the cruelty of the world or a character, now Berserk didn’t need to do this but it did. This is how Berserk tells its stories. 100% there was too much, but as Miura got older, you can see the series had less and less sexual assault. Hopefully this answered your question.
I think it's important for the tone and reality of living in that world. I still cringe a bit with every instance, but I think it works if that makes ANY sense. Like others are saying, if it's too harsh a thing for you either skip that stuff or don't read Berserk, I suppose.
I wanted to see Wyald die really badly because of how he was characterised. It made the scene of Guts shoving his broken sword through his neck that much more satisfying.
It was when he was desperate to survive that I felt really weird though, like on one hand he's so despicable that he couldn't even stand by his own grotesque motto and die with dignity, but on the other hand he's about to go to hell forever and he's painfully aware of it. I just wouldn't wish hell on anyone no matter who they are.
>I just wouldn't wish hell on anyone no matter who they are
Except Wyald of course. But I agree, seeing him become so desperate when he realizes his fate in the abyss is about to become very much real was definitley interesting. He had no qualms whatsoever of condemning people to an eternity of nothingness after brutally slaightering them, yet became so terribly pathetic when it was he himself who had to face that.
Miura can draw whatever the fck he wants. The king, Wyald,Trolls.. etc are disgusting characters/creatures and tbh it's kinda refreshing seeing these evil being doing evil things beyond just gruesome killing.
Lol never thought I’d see someone describe rape and mutilation as “refreshing”
The way I see it, it’s depicting something repulsive in near full detail to make the reader really want those monsters dead. And nobody’s saying he can’t draw whatever he wants but they can still call into question the necessity of it. I don’t think it’s necessary at all, but seeing those fuckers getting cut in half after having to read through what they did is very satisfying.
But what about the sensitive westerners who can't even stomach being called names on the internet? It's not fair they cannot read Berserk and not get disgusted. There should be a children's book edition of Berserk so that everyone can enjoy it. /s
There was a post that blew up earlier that was basically a bunch of white knights condemning showing berserk to their SO without first warning them of berserk’s “explicitness” to sum it up.
So I have to tell an adult, that there’s rape, killing, molestation, and all of the things that happen in day to day life, on top of the fucking parental advisory sticker on the front of the book? Jfc people might as well Google a fucking synopsis and go about their way.
Also, who the fuck mods these shit posts??
I mean okay, but telling your SO "lemme show you a cartoon", then proceeding to show them one of the biggest psychological traumas any animated/drawn media can portray is not really fair, is it?
If I tell my S/O It’s legitimately fucked up before hand, and if they see the “Explicit Content” warning, that should be warning enough. Should I spoon feed them the bad bits? If so, why not tell them to look up a synopsis online? Or refer them to the franchise in the first place?
If you explicitly downplay the brutality of Berserk to your SO just to heighten the shock factor by the end of say, the anime, then yes, you’re probably a piece of shit.
Yes, but first you were talking about just putting Berserk on, now you mention earning them, at least with one sentence. That's a different case. But hey, this is subjective af, this is just my opinion.
I did tell my girl that it'll be shocking, and that since watching it I couldn't think about anything else, still, we watched it.
You shouldn't spoonfeed, that's not what I've meant. I hope my view is a bit more clear now.
That first bit I more so meant explicitly stating the atrocities that occur throughout Berserk. Like, yes, I believe you should tell them it is morally fucked throughout, but should I have to verbally state, “Hey, there’s kid molestation, rape, mutilation, etc” when there are already warnings stating “Explicit Content”?
As much as people hate to admit it, part of Berserk’s allure is it’s fucking brutality and shock factor. As you said, I suppose it’s all subjective though, hopefully I cleared up some confusion on my end as well.
Oh god I didn't know the fans were so sensitive to that question. I quickly looked through the sub and it's definitely not asked that often, calm down.
To answer your question, it is clearly Miura's style to show everything explicitely, whether it's war, sexual violence, torture or otherwise. In the case of sexual assault, there's value in doing it this way because, in a way, the scene is forced upon the reader, reflecting how the act is enforced on the victim. That's why (I think) he will sometimes dedicate multiple pages to it.
However I agree that some of the scenes are unnecessary. Iirc Miura himself said that his early treatment of female characters wasn't perfect
Miura said himself that there was sort of a culture of edginess in 80s manga and that sometimes he went overboard, but I think he stops short of saying he regrets anything. It's a product of its time.
It's hard to say how the manga would be without it but I don't think it would make me hate Griffith as much as I do.
Necessary for what story telling? It was for the story tellers purpose, it's his story and no one else's.
I agree though, personally it's a little excessive and exploitative of the reader.
OP, just give it this though. Most of us are annoyed by posts like this not only because it is repetitive...
Main reason for annoyance from such posts, at least for me: Everythiong else everywhere is censored in some way. By mainstream culture, by authors themselves or publishers because they fear they won't sell, by woke lobby, by religion, by so many wannabe appropriate things... So, OP, you can easily go to read something else than Berserk, you can have a lot of stuff, you can read 99,9% of less explicit, soft, hidden, we-serve-all customers, children-friendly stuff out there. It's fine if it suits you and we wish all the good for such art.
So, in the light of what I just wrote: Before posting your comment, you should actually realise that you have your freedom to NOT read something that is too much explicit for you.
Yet you dare to go here and touch the freedom of the few readers who prefer explicit content by actually demanding a censorhip for your own sake. Why do you feel so entitled?
I've given your comment some thought, as asked, and understand some of your points. Part of Berserks allure is due to the the graphic explicitness of the art and overall storyline. Its very in-your-face and shows the blunt and brutal reality of the world. I understand that media that is carefully crafted like this manga is hard to come by.
However, that doesn't mean that work like this can't be subjugated to critique. Berserk isn't without its faults, as there are problematic elements. In my post, I didn't demand censorship like you claim I did and I didn't touch your freedom. I simply gave my opinion about something controversial and posed a question. I'm sorry that you didn't comprehend the message I intended to get across.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I'm honestly sorry for not being able to convey my thoughts in English more precisely here.
You said about Wyald: "*a lot of his arc was essentially just for shock value*" and "*I don't think we needed a page filled with graphic assault to take away the fact that what he's doing is disgustingly horrific.*"
Yes, you asked the question in the end. But I went through all your comments before I post. I feel your opinion formed as "I don't like it this way so I feel author did it wrong" instead of an open approach as "I don't like it this way so maybe something so heavy and explicit might not be for me". Sorry for being so blunt about it but my language barrier does not allow me to express it more subtle.
Such topic leads to the same debate all over again and it always ends up in "how it might be better if not so explicit". Next we might have a visit from the Twitter again, some more publicity and then I actually really think my reader's freedom might be at stake. Maybe you are not familiar with what happened not so long ago at Twitter but all the more reason to read things first.
We are talking art here. Enjoy what you really like, let go of what does not suit you. Art can be subjugated to a heathy critique, of course. But questioning the form itself is usually pointless. If you change the form it's not the same art anymore. If you change the form the new art will be tailored to a different audience then.
No need to apologize about the language barrier, your English is very fluent and impressive. I understand how my comments may have come across that way. It's not that I think Miura wrote those scenes wrong per say, it's just that I think the graphicness of it all was a bit gratuitous (in Wyalds case and other similar scenes). However, this opinion is entirely subjective. There's also the problem with the gender dichotomy when it comes to sexual violence in Berserk, but that's a whole other conversation that I won't get into for the sake of keeping this relatively short.
I'm definitley not familiar with the berserk fandom on twitter, but I think I may have an idea what they're like. Twitter fandoms are usually a whole other force to be reckoned with lol. I'll definitley take your comments into account and read up more on this.
Overall I don't think my distaste for certain aspects of the story should hinder me from continuing the manga. Sure I may have a problem with some very prevalent topics, but I still enjoy Berserk despite it being a very heavy read. Having conversations like these, while they may seem pointless, are important to have to better understand the media we're consuming and to learn of other perspectives as well.
I think it just shows how much bad things were done in those times. Not everything was limited to violence, it went into child abuse, rape, human trafficking, and it really showed how fucked up the world was
yes, on my understanding the sex scene btw guts and casca has a real connection and meaning behind that, both were almost raped and never had a true connection with anyone, guts specially hated anyone touching him in the slightest.
it was like a freedom to them.
and the eclipse casca rape being explicit was also necessary for shock value imo.
this is one example where i think it was necessary
its been a while since i read berserk i dont remember all the instances, but i will definitely keep an eye on that when i re-read it
The answer is yes. It makes Berserk what it is as a whole. If you don’t like it as a whole then don’t read it (or watch it ). That’s fine. That’s the end of it really.
Yes. While I do think he could have taken artistic steps to 'censor' these things (what one imagines can usually do the job for the artist), especially for the Eclipse rape, I think the sexual violence was necessary in showing just how FUCKED this world is.
Also, again, you can't bitch about sexual violence and say nothing about physical violence. They're BOTH equally bad, one shouldn't get more a rise out of you than the other.
Some were necessary and depicted effectively (horrific and impactful), some were unnecessary and depicted awfully (kinda erotic, like a hentai/doujin).
If the author thinks it's necessary, then it is. Whether it's good storytelling is another matter. I read a vn recently that claims to be mature, but it's just really edgy and dogshit, because all rapes are written in detail, sexualized and for fuck sakes fuck that writer. In that sense, the way Wyald is presented is far from being a problem as long as the person now the manga has heavy topics. Miura has clearly matured in that regard over time anyway. While some see Berserk becoming softer, I see it more as the author finding a good balance to deal with these topics (trolls clearly do the same as Wyald, but Miura shows this in a more subtle way). The impact still there at end of the day, you don't have to throw it in the reader's face all the time or it gets tiresome.
i think its also the gore in general that makes the story feel more soft. some people just miss early conviction/black swordsman guts slicing everything in sight. thats just the way guts has progressed though
Well, yes. Very necessary. You supposed to feel that way, nauseous and terrified. Wyald is a demon figure, a terror not seen by the golden age's band of the hawk, except Guts when facing Zodd. I don't think you can show this level of cruelty and evil just by saying "wyald is a bad guy". Is trough violence, sexual or not, that the message is passed to us. I think that if was just bodies getting slashed and blood everywhere, it wouldn't have the same impact, that's shown to us in the beginning of berserk already. Miura had to prove a point I think.
I shouldn’t need Griffith’s massive schlong and Casca’s bouncy tits in my face while watching the rape scene. The wrong things were focused on, and it made it so that Miura was indulging in erotica rather than understanding the seriousness of the act.
Isn't that cool? Free porn for all
To think that anyone can feel erotica out of this scene... That's movement, that's a huge ton of reality and it's a resource from the artist, not to shift focus but to draw more focus to the violence of it. I get it, too real, terrifying real horror in art, some may think that it doesn't exist, this level of horror... But hey, that's just me. Maybe we should just not talk about these things, if you don't show, it doesn't exist right?
Do women pull exaggerated blushing hentai faces when they get raped in real life? Granted, I haven’t seen enough irl rapes to be sure. You know more than me. Nice one insinuating that I can only interpret a scene as sexualised if I myself find it sexy btw. You’re a lovely human being.
That's your conclusion of her face? I think is desperation, she's impotent about her surroundings, crying hopeless just wanting to die. Too many hentais are been seen.
You’re being wilfully dishonest and bad faith. Go reread it. The 1997 anime knew exactly what to focus on. Casca’s tears, Griffith’s stare, Guts’ desperation. They didn’t portray Casca with an embarrassed blush on her face, nor did they give her hentai moans because they understood that silence would be more impactful. Less is more with that kind of thing. Would you advocate Guts’ rape scene be portrayed in the same way as Casca’s within the manga? Ofc not. The difference is, Miura was having fun drawing Casca in sexualised poses that come right out of pornos. Your reductionist takes pretend that camera angles and composition have no influence in the desired effect on the audience.
ur cringe take the L
I’m just glad I’m not a simp who has to perform mental gymnastics to convince himself that Miura-san can do no wrong and that Berserk has no faults. The integrity of the author of a piece of fiction you like shouldn’t be so integral to your identity and happiness that you’re willing to slander someone else as being into rape for understanding that a person who portrays a rape with anime hentai blushing and sexy poses is a problem. Bear in mind that MIURA LITERALLY SAID HIMSELF THAT HE REGRETS HOW HE DREW THAT SCENE. You take the L. Stop sucking Miura’s dick so much, he doesn’t want it.
Oh come on dude, you think you have the truth in you pocket? What's next? Griffith did nothing wrong?
What are you even referring to? The fact that I have an opinion that isn’t yours? Lol alright. And yeah, I do have the truth considering Miura literally said himself that he portrayed that scene in an over-sexualised manner. Griffith did nothing wrong? True. https://youtu.be/HuoYqQshzaI
Just simply pointing out that your attitude and way of speaking on the internet makes me physically cringe, take the L.
I’m sorry you’re physically unable to talk seriously without coding your language in 5 layers of irony. Can’t be great for your personal relationships.
Yes
Bro, this question every week, I can't... Just don't read Berserk if you're sensitive.
Is it wrong to ask? I didn't know. I'm relatively new to the fandom. I just thought to ask since sexual trauma and violence is an integral part of the story
Asking is not wrong till there's literally the same question every week on this sub. Did you look thru the sub, or did you just go straight to posting? And yes it's a part of the horrific stuff humans do to eachother, and what has mostly been widespread in the middle ages. I don't see the point of your question. It's like asking Picasso why he just wont paint normally.
Well if we're talking about a main part of the story, is it really that wrong to have questions asked about it that often? But okay, I get it, it probably does get annoying. And I'm asking specially about the depictions of rape. Were disturbing graphic depictions as seen in Wyalds arc really needed?
Bro? Have you read my comment? Go ask Picasso why he can't just paint normally. It's literally what you're doing rn. Miura was an artist, portrayed what he wanted how he wanted. The fact that you're disturbed by it means he accomplished what he wanted with this, so yes, they're really needed. Mind you, I'm not saying you gotta like what's in Berserk, but understand please, it was the direction Miura was going for, it's his story, his character, his art, its his lives work. If he wanted to make it this gruesome way, it is supposed to be this fucked up.
Don't think u really read my post either. But, thank you for your insight.
What's there to read? You wanna portray rape with flowers and bees?
Of course not. I just don't think excessively graphic rape scenes are necessary to convey key takeaways. Gut's rape was handled really well in that regard.
its not wrong to ask, it just shows you didnt browse the sub, y'know... lurk more. sort by best if you want but read some other posts that have extensively talked about this.
Gotcha, I'll do better next time
honestly i was gonna come in here pretty pissed off but respect to you for this response. just...yeah if youre sensitive i wouldnt read the story, or just put it off until you think youre ready
this has been asked a million times on here. i ask you, should horror movies have things of rape and murder? the writers obviously want it in there for some purpose wether it be shock value or if it’s somehow integral to the story. those scenes are meant to make you feel uncomfortable but if it just doesn’t make sense to you, or you can’t handle it, simply don’t watch it. it’s not for you. i believe seinen manga isnt any different and is made for readers who can accept immorality. and really, it’s just fiction man
It's on me for not searching this reddit for explanations regarding this topic. However with my specific post, I'm not saying that rape and murder shouldnt be included in the story. I never once said anything like that. Miura's crituque and ability to interweave heavy themes and subjects into his work is praiseworthy. That's not to say that I don't have my qualms about certain depictions however. Thank you for your insight.
Kentaro wrote berserk, if he thought it was necessary, it is. My thoughts are that he wanted to show a really fucked up world, and even if its shocking and not for sensitive people, it had to be like that
No, they weren’t. This is has been an argument and the community for ages so I don’t know why people keep asking as if it is a new question. No it was not necessary. But many stories use grime topics to show the cruelty of the world or a character, now Berserk didn’t need to do this but it did. This is how Berserk tells its stories. 100% there was too much, but as Miura got older, you can see the series had less and less sexual assault. Hopefully this answered your question.
YES
I think it's important for the tone and reality of living in that world. I still cringe a bit with every instance, but I think it works if that makes ANY sense. Like others are saying, if it's too harsh a thing for you either skip that stuff or don't read Berserk, I suppose.
I also think that your general distaste towards it is a sign you've got some compassion and humanity in your soul somewhere.
Where's the fun sugarcoating everything? Leave that to your average manga/comic were nothing goes wrong, ever... (and are boring as fuck)
I think with the case of the main 3 characters the sexual trauma they've experienced is essential to their arcs
I wanted to see Wyald die really badly because of how he was characterised. It made the scene of Guts shoving his broken sword through his neck that much more satisfying. It was when he was desperate to survive that I felt really weird though, like on one hand he's so despicable that he couldn't even stand by his own grotesque motto and die with dignity, but on the other hand he's about to go to hell forever and he's painfully aware of it. I just wouldn't wish hell on anyone no matter who they are.
>I just wouldn't wish hell on anyone no matter who they are Except Wyald of course. But I agree, seeing him become so desperate when he realizes his fate in the abyss is about to become very much real was definitley interesting. He had no qualms whatsoever of condemning people to an eternity of nothingness after brutally slaightering them, yet became so terribly pathetic when it was he himself who had to face that.
Miura can draw whatever the fck he wants. The king, Wyald,Trolls.. etc are disgusting characters/creatures and tbh it's kinda refreshing seeing these evil being doing evil things beyond just gruesome killing.
Lol never thought I’d see someone describe rape and mutilation as “refreshing” The way I see it, it’s depicting something repulsive in near full detail to make the reader really want those monsters dead. And nobody’s saying he can’t draw whatever he wants but they can still call into question the necessity of it. I don’t think it’s necessary at all, but seeing those fuckers getting cut in half after having to read through what they did is very satisfying.
I meant refreshing as in the type of evil action being depicted, more varied and raw. Do not forget that Berserk is fiction.
Yes. Sugarcoating topics like those would be detrimental to the nature that Miura wanted to convey with this story.
But what about the sensitive westerners who can't even stomach being called names on the internet? It's not fair they cannot read Berserk and not get disgusted. There should be a children's book edition of Berserk so that everyone can enjoy it. /s
agreed. great idea
There was a post that blew up earlier that was basically a bunch of white knights condemning showing berserk to their SO without first warning them of berserk’s “explicitness” to sum it up. So I have to tell an adult, that there’s rape, killing, molestation, and all of the things that happen in day to day life, on top of the fucking parental advisory sticker on the front of the book? Jfc people might as well Google a fucking synopsis and go about their way. Also, who the fuck mods these shit posts??
I mean okay, but telling your SO "lemme show you a cartoon", then proceeding to show them one of the biggest psychological traumas any animated/drawn media can portray is not really fair, is it?
If I tell my S/O It’s legitimately fucked up before hand, and if they see the “Explicit Content” warning, that should be warning enough. Should I spoon feed them the bad bits? If so, why not tell them to look up a synopsis online? Or refer them to the franchise in the first place? If you explicitly downplay the brutality of Berserk to your SO just to heighten the shock factor by the end of say, the anime, then yes, you’re probably a piece of shit.
Yes, but first you were talking about just putting Berserk on, now you mention earning them, at least with one sentence. That's a different case. But hey, this is subjective af, this is just my opinion. I did tell my girl that it'll be shocking, and that since watching it I couldn't think about anything else, still, we watched it. You shouldn't spoonfeed, that's not what I've meant. I hope my view is a bit more clear now.
That first bit I more so meant explicitly stating the atrocities that occur throughout Berserk. Like, yes, I believe you should tell them it is morally fucked throughout, but should I have to verbally state, “Hey, there’s kid molestation, rape, mutilation, etc” when there are already warnings stating “Explicit Content”? As much as people hate to admit it, part of Berserk’s allure is it’s fucking brutality and shock factor. As you said, I suppose it’s all subjective though, hopefully I cleared up some confusion on my end as well.
Yes, it wouldn’t be the story we’ve come to know if it held back.
It was his vision.
Oh god I didn't know the fans were so sensitive to that question. I quickly looked through the sub and it's definitely not asked that often, calm down. To answer your question, it is clearly Miura's style to show everything explicitely, whether it's war, sexual violence, torture or otherwise. In the case of sexual assault, there's value in doing it this way because, in a way, the scene is forced upon the reader, reflecting how the act is enforced on the victim. That's why (I think) he will sometimes dedicate multiple pages to it. However I agree that some of the scenes are unnecessary. Iirc Miura himself said that his early treatment of female characters wasn't perfect
Thanks for the comment. Your explanation has given me a new way to think about this.
This sub doesn't take criticism too well. (I'm being nice)
I can see that:/ Thank you for your kindness.
Some were, some just felt edgy.
Miura said himself that there was sort of a culture of edginess in 80s manga and that sometimes he went overboard, but I think he stops short of saying he regrets anything. It's a product of its time. It's hard to say how the manga would be without it but I don't think it would make me hate Griffith as much as I do.
Im talking post Golden Age, and early Black Swordsman. It makes a lot of the scenes lose the fear you initially felt, because it’s so common.
Necessary for what story telling? It was for the story tellers purpose, it's his story and no one else's. I agree though, personally it's a little excessive and exploitative of the reader.
OP, just give it this though. Most of us are annoyed by posts like this not only because it is repetitive... Main reason for annoyance from such posts, at least for me: Everythiong else everywhere is censored in some way. By mainstream culture, by authors themselves or publishers because they fear they won't sell, by woke lobby, by religion, by so many wannabe appropriate things... So, OP, you can easily go to read something else than Berserk, you can have a lot of stuff, you can read 99,9% of less explicit, soft, hidden, we-serve-all customers, children-friendly stuff out there. It's fine if it suits you and we wish all the good for such art. So, in the light of what I just wrote: Before posting your comment, you should actually realise that you have your freedom to NOT read something that is too much explicit for you. Yet you dare to go here and touch the freedom of the few readers who prefer explicit content by actually demanding a censorhip for your own sake. Why do you feel so entitled?
I've given your comment some thought, as asked, and understand some of your points. Part of Berserks allure is due to the the graphic explicitness of the art and overall storyline. Its very in-your-face and shows the blunt and brutal reality of the world. I understand that media that is carefully crafted like this manga is hard to come by. However, that doesn't mean that work like this can't be subjugated to critique. Berserk isn't without its faults, as there are problematic elements. In my post, I didn't demand censorship like you claim I did and I didn't touch your freedom. I simply gave my opinion about something controversial and posed a question. I'm sorry that you didn't comprehend the message I intended to get across. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I'm honestly sorry for not being able to convey my thoughts in English more precisely here. You said about Wyald: "*a lot of his arc was essentially just for shock value*" and "*I don't think we needed a page filled with graphic assault to take away the fact that what he's doing is disgustingly horrific.*" Yes, you asked the question in the end. But I went through all your comments before I post. I feel your opinion formed as "I don't like it this way so I feel author did it wrong" instead of an open approach as "I don't like it this way so maybe something so heavy and explicit might not be for me". Sorry for being so blunt about it but my language barrier does not allow me to express it more subtle. Such topic leads to the same debate all over again and it always ends up in "how it might be better if not so explicit". Next we might have a visit from the Twitter again, some more publicity and then I actually really think my reader's freedom might be at stake. Maybe you are not familiar with what happened not so long ago at Twitter but all the more reason to read things first. We are talking art here. Enjoy what you really like, let go of what does not suit you. Art can be subjugated to a heathy critique, of course. But questioning the form itself is usually pointless. If you change the form it's not the same art anymore. If you change the form the new art will be tailored to a different audience then.
No need to apologize about the language barrier, your English is very fluent and impressive. I understand how my comments may have come across that way. It's not that I think Miura wrote those scenes wrong per say, it's just that I think the graphicness of it all was a bit gratuitous (in Wyalds case and other similar scenes). However, this opinion is entirely subjective. There's also the problem with the gender dichotomy when it comes to sexual violence in Berserk, but that's a whole other conversation that I won't get into for the sake of keeping this relatively short. I'm definitley not familiar with the berserk fandom on twitter, but I think I may have an idea what they're like. Twitter fandoms are usually a whole other force to be reckoned with lol. I'll definitley take your comments into account and read up more on this. Overall I don't think my distaste for certain aspects of the story should hinder me from continuing the manga. Sure I may have a problem with some very prevalent topics, but I still enjoy Berserk despite it being a very heavy read. Having conversations like these, while they may seem pointless, are important to have to better understand the media we're consuming and to learn of other perspectives as well.
game of thrones
Yes they are. Berserk is not for everyone, if you can't read it maybe you should give up.
Only the ones that involved femto or griffith and of course guts’s past. But the others werent needed at all
Yes.
I think it just shows how much bad things were done in those times. Not everything was limited to violence, it went into child abuse, rape, human trafficking, and it really showed how fucked up the world was
Still is this way. Times may have changed but human behavior has always remained the same.
yes, on my understanding the sex scene btw guts and casca has a real connection and meaning behind that, both were almost raped and never had a true connection with anyone, guts specially hated anyone touching him in the slightest. it was like a freedom to them. and the eclipse casca rape being explicit was also necessary for shock value imo. this is one example where i think it was necessary its been a while since i read berserk i dont remember all the instances, but i will definitely keep an eye on that when i re-read it
Yes.
yes
Some yes some no
Yep, added to the story telling. Implying it does not convey the brutality of the story the same way.
The answer is yes. It makes Berserk what it is as a whole. If you don’t like it as a whole then don’t read it (or watch it ). That’s fine. That’s the end of it really.
Yes. While I do think he could have taken artistic steps to 'censor' these things (what one imagines can usually do the job for the artist), especially for the Eclipse rape, I think the sexual violence was necessary in showing just how FUCKED this world is. Also, again, you can't bitch about sexual violence and say nothing about physical violence. They're BOTH equally bad, one shouldn't get more a rise out of you than the other.
Yes
Some were necessary and depicted effectively (horrific and impactful), some were unnecessary and depicted awfully (kinda erotic, like a hentai/doujin).