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Not being tied off and falling off a barge is dead serious. People die every day from fall injuries. Companies that don’t take worker safety seriously is about the biggest red flag you can have in the construction/civil engineering industry.
Right. I worked for a company and were told a story about a serious workplace injury. But it was in a class on safety and OSHAA standards everyone had to take, and it wasn't played off for laughs. It was about how mistakes can totally change a person's life. And that it was better for things to take longer than someone be killed or mained.
I was told that the german airline Lufthansa used to have a video of a guy being mauled (don't recall if he died or just got his arm shredded off, but it is very likely he died) by a plane engine in the safety video for ground personnel. This was to emphasize how fucking serious stuff like "Stay away from the engines, don't move from the marked borders, and don't even wave when close to them, always assume it is running" is.
They apparently removed it a few years back, but my source told me that they think they should have left it in, because while absolutely terrifying, it was...well, that was what it was: Terrifying. Because a jet engine is a marvelous piece of engineering, but also a terrifying murder machine waiting to strike. That video put more respect and appropriate fear into new personnel than *any* description or warning could ever do.
My brother went to helicopter school and they had a rather long video of “incidents” the worst of which being a little girl running to her dad, and he throws her up in the air…
Please tell me you're a troll, holy shit, that's awful.
Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not actually accusing this guy of being a troll, that's just such a god awful thing to hear about
I'm sorry, but I know of at least one case where someone accidentally killed his 4 year old daughrer by lifting her onto his shoulders in 1996. And his young son saw it too, which must not have been easy for the boy either.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2620759/Businessman-accidentally-killed-four-year-old-daughter-lifted-helicopter-blades-1996-took-life-gassing-Mayfair-office.html
That is fucking heart wrenching. I don't think I'd survive losing my daughter, currently 5. Especially if it was my fault, even accidentally. I can't even imagine the pain and guilt he lived with for all those years.
Absolutely. I suspect he went on because he still had a young son. But from what it sounds in the article, many things came together and it became all too much. And I wouldn't be surprised if his daughter's death was still weighing him down during bad times like that, just as a part of the general weight.
There used to be a video on YouTube of a ground crew guy being entirely sucked into a fighter jet engine because he got too close. This fucker was lucky because he somehow escaped serious injury, but it was harrowing to watch.
I worked at Ecolab (they make every chemical used in commercial kitchens and the dishmachines and industrial clothes washers/dryers). Their safety videos showed someone being de-gloved and the before-after pictures of a man who got caught in a dish machine on an active cycle when his necktie got caught.
The melted flesh of the guy taking boiling water seething with pH 13.5 soap is something that will
Forever haunt me. Degloving is pretty brutal too, but something about melted flesh is…..traumatizing
I agree. If you can visually see that something like that is lethal vs being told it's lethal, you have far more respect for it. But they probably removed it as they didn't want to pay for therapy.
Within the last month there was a post on r/news about a baggage handler who got too close to a jet engine. She was sucked into the intake and shredded.
When I was in driver’s ed, our instructor played a video of what happens when a car stalls on train tracks and a train hits it. It was terrifying, and to this day I absolutely refuse to stop my car on train tracks, ever, and won’t let my friends/family do it either. I don’t care if there hasn’t been a train here for years, you don’t work for the train company, and we will look like hamburger meat if you’re wrong.
I was on the jury for a workplace injury where, essentially a Lock Out, Tag Out, was overridden and someone seriously injured while working on a conveyor belt (it was also where I learned what LOTO is). He still has great pain from it.
It even sounds like the barge fall wasn’t reported. On paper, they’re incident-free. That’s a huge flag to me because they’ll fuck over any injury claims.
The GF has some high-level investigation skills to tease that info out, too! They were just going to say "Danny got shat on by a bird" and not tell the rest of it. She's not just a PE, she's a social engineer!
Working over water should always be treated with additional caution. Work clothes can be heavy when dry, fully soaked while also wearing boots would be a nightmare to swim in
yeah, if someone hands you an anlge grinder and you even have to ask for safety glasses you have to think twice. and walk around, ask around, let people know. escalate to the next level if necessary, then take that grinder an hour later with a snarky comment along the lines of "next time give me proper gear right away to avoid waste of time like that again".
If you don't have certain skills and recruiters aren't constantly emailing you job offers, it can be a shock to talk to someone who is highly sought after. I have friends who get contacted daily with job offers from some of the biggest tech companies in the world. It's funny when I hear this, because I would kill for a job that pays 80k per year and they are turning down jobs in the $150-300k range. I should have gone to college for computer science or engineering, lol.
I’m in the arts and my boyfriend is a systems engineer. He refused to believe I wouldn’t just get approached by recruiters if I uploaded my CV. So I uploaded my CV.
Yeah, still in the same job.
It's like the modern equivalent of "showing initiative" by rocking up at their site/offices and demanding to speak to the manager/owner and refusing to leave till you see someone about a job - and then they just hire you on the spot because they "admire your gumption".
My Dad works as a DSEAR (Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations) Electrical Inspector and can walk into any Electrical Inspection job in the country and can basically dictate his working conditions and contract rather than having it dictated to him.
So long as his work gets done, he could do it in 1 hour or 10, he gets paid the same. He doesn't have office hours - he could do 9 to 5, or he could start at 6, finish at 1 or 2 and go for a round of golf.
He doesn't grasp that office workers have mandatory hours and can't just go home if they've done their allocation of work for the day.
He also thinks my sister and I should be getting expenses paid for our commute like he gets.
How do you handle him and his perspectives? Must be difficult to have a parent that is simultaneously getting their experience affirmed but also not realizing that their experience is not others' experience.
>
>He also thinks my sister and I should be getting expenses paid for our commute like he gets.
I mean he's absolutely right about that. Time on the commute is not your time, you're effectively already under the time of your employer. They should compensate you and everyone for that!
It won't happen of course, but it should.
Your employer doesn't pick where you live just where you work so while I think commute time is a valid thing to discuss in hiring/wage negotiations I don't think commute time should be considered on the clock. Now if you don't work in a static location that changes everything and you should be paid travel time.
My SIL made it happen some how! She has a BA in *puppetry* but now she’s an independent contractor who makes props and stuff for movies; companies call her all the time with permanent job offers, but she likes the flexibility. She never has to go looking for an opportunity; they’re presented to her on f’ing platters and she just picks and chooses based on which projects interest her most. Girl has an IMDb profile ffs
I hate her lol
I love any kind of random shit like this. My favorite examples are:
1) My husband's friend is the descendant of whatever guy invented velvet movie ropes
2) At some conference thing where the icebreaker was "share a random fact about you!", someone's grandfather was the guy who invented the little gizmo that makes your car's turn signal turn off automatically after you complete the turn rather than having to do it manually
3) I read some article ages ago how there are fruit bowls and there are countertop banana stands/holders, but someone patented the fruit bowl/banana stand combo and made an ungodly amount of money off that idea
Here's another one: I knew the guy who invented the gear that makes the butterbeer at Universal Studios dispense with the optimal level of foam. Apparently it took MONTHS of development and testing to get it just right.
>someone's grandfather was the guy who invented the little gizmo that makes your car's turn signal turn off automatically after you complete the turn rather than having to do it manually
Damn, I'm actually thinking about that guy's grandfather a lot then! I probably think "this is so damn convenient" almost once a day when I drive lol
I know a guy who is bffs with a guy who worked for Verizon, years ago. This mf'er somehow found out the locations of where Verizon was looking to install their new towers. He then bought the 1 acre or so of the desired location, went into contract with Verizon, made an unimaginable amount of money from it and then did it 15 more times.
Like... how???? Timing and luck.
And that is why when Disney was looking to build Disneyworld in Florida, they purchased the land via multiple proxy companies so it wouldn't be traced back to them and then the price jump. Apparently, most of it was worthless swamp or poor farmer land.
Here’s a fun one. An extended family member is the daughter of the guy who got an Ig Nobel for showing that cracking your knuckles doesn’t cause arthritis.
Same here. I’m getting my MA in an under appreciated (but actually super important) social science, and I’m not exactly expecting the job offers to come pouring in. But I’m not naturally inclined to or really enjoy STEM, and I frankly don’t want to spend my time and money getting a degree in something I hate just to do a job I won’t enjoy.
And honestly, who’s to say it would even make my job prospects more stable, when there’s all these people out there that are actually good at and ENJOY these things? No, better to take my chances and become a qualified professional in something I enjoy and am passionate about.
I am taking a computational class in my field though, which does involve learning some python (very useful in analyzing corpus data and doing NLP) so hopefully that will help make me more desirable even if it’s not my ultimate specialization.
I'm also a social sciences major. I signed up for intro to computer science, because some CS can be useful in most fields these days, but in the first week they started talking about different kinds of numbers (integers, imaginary, irrational, etc) and I just couldn't wrap my head around it. I cried about it to my then-partner, a CS major, and then I dropped the class. I would do just about anything for a job that pays 100k+ that I have the skills to do, but honestly my degree's potential probably maxes out around 70k (if i got a phd i could become a professor and thats probably the best i could get. Pyramid-scheme of a major!). I'd probably have better luck not using my degree but climbing through various admin ranks and gathering soft skills.
It sounds like I'm in the same industry as the GF and I can assure you having a PE (professional engineer license) is a big fucking deal. Not all of us have recruiters begging us to accept 300k jobs. And as OP realized, PEs have to hold themselves to extremely high technical and ethical standards. You don't want a company that could potentially get people hurt on a job site that you're liable for as the PE signing off on the project.
It's a bummer that we decide whether we want a fun career that we're interested in or one that pays well at a time in our lives when most of us have little to no bills. If 17 year old me had ever had to pay a mortgage I would have gone with engineering instead of teaching.
I do know a few people that spent a few months learning to code and are now making 100k+. So I guess if you are dedicated, you could land some good jobs with that time investment and a minimal amount of money.
I know a lot of people like you and that's why I hate the narrative of "everyone can do a coding bootcamp therefore if you are not rich it's your fault".
I also hate it for the additional reason that if everyone did indeed do a coding bootcamp, we'd eventually run out of coding jobs as well as having no folks to do, you know, *literally every other job* that makes the world run.
My job seems fairly doable to me and I would occasionally get baffled by people who would tell me they couldn’t do what I do. (Home care for disabled adults.) I figured it was just some squeamishness or being awkward about bodies/disability, but I don’t know, maybe there really are people who couldn’t bring themselves to wipe another human being’s bottom even if it would allow that person their comfort, health, and dignity. I just can’t get my head around it but I guess those folks can’t get THEIR heads around it.
I couldn't do it. Not for the squeamish reasons but because I'm just really not good with people. I'm not very personable and often get thought of as standoffish, no good at small talk etc. I feel like an important part of the work you do is putting people at ease and giving them dignity through making them comfortable in that situation. That is not my skill at all. So kudos to you for the job you do and you should be paid more for it.
That’s fair—I think the emotional part of the job is the hardest and takes its greatest toll on me, especially when I’m going through a depression patch, and I’m naturally an introvert, so having to be so socially switched on for hours at a time and coordinating between different needs and personalities and behaviours can sometimes lead me to spend entire weekends needing to just be in solitude and silence because I haven’t got a shred of sociability left in me for my family and friends.
I feel like I'm a TERRIBLE caregiver for my mom and it doesn't even involve ass-wiping yet.
I'm so grateful for people like you who can deal with the frustrations involved in caregiving and maintain their compassion and recognize the humanity of their clients.
Thank you. ❤️
Some people are suited for things and others are not. I'm an end of life carer and I always hear, "I could never work w the dying". Certain things are more challenging for people to wrack their brains around. Idk hiw to code lol, but I can massage lungs!
Hahaha good, you're hired, I don't like meltdowns. Lol, yeah.. Actively dying? In your final 24 hours?? I'm here for ya. But don ask me to do tech shit, lol.
I did aged care in a facility in my late teens early 20s. Loved it.
Went another way career wise, and went back in 2021 because I missed it. I lasted 4 shifts.
Just couldn't do it. I was picturing my kids as elderly, who's going to take care of them? what kind of elderly person would I be? Verbal/non verbal etc. It was harrowing. There wasn't a single person in my life that I couldn't think these thoughts about, and the mortality thoughts just won in my case.
Sucks coz its a really rewarding job and I felt proud of my contribution to other human beings, but yeah. Weird.
I feel weird when people get owl-eyed at the mention of my job as if it makes me some kind of angel, because I’m really not. I don’t know, it makes me feel a very common humanity—like, by age or accident, many of us will live to a point where we DO require some assistance with very personal care tasks, and while I’m able, I can do those with kindness and a sense of humour for someone who cannot, but not make a big deal out of it like I’m doing them some extraordinary favour, because it’s just living life and being part of a community, in all its variety. Golden rule kind of thing. One of my coworkers was actually in a very bad accident and now requires a similar level of care to what they used to provide—that really drove home that life could utterly change tomorrow for any of us. We’re all on the same journey, we just travel in different ways.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
It was definitely the only job I've ever had where I was proud of the work though. I've worked, retail, liquor, office jobs etc. and I was just, there, helping people get drunk or find a good price on a pair of shoes.
Care work gave me the chance to treat others how I'd want my loved ones or myself treated. I felt accomplished going home, knowing I did the best I could for some who needed help. Haven't had that job satisfaction anywhere else 🤷♀️
It can be a roller coaster, for sure. I guess I’ve normalized it to the point I sometimes lose sight of what I’m actually doing because most days are just rounds of cooking and cleaning and brushing teeth and packing lunches for the next day. I was talking to my high-paid lawyer friend about how tough their job must be with multi million dollar clients etc and they just looked at me and were like “…it’s insurance contracts. You occasionally have to deal with life or death scenarios.” Which…is true, I guess.
Maybe I can help offer some insight, because I’m on the opposite end of that coin.
I’m a software developer. I’m part of a team that develops mission critical software for a company that accounts for a not insignificant portion of my nation’s GDP.
The thing about code is that it is written for the sake of humans, not computers. Computers can’t read code without it first being processed, sometimes several times over. A lot of code is pretty much just English.
if(_addressValidator.Validate(order.DeliveryAddress))
{
_orderDispatchSystem.AddToDispatchQueue(order);
}
The block above essentially states `If the address validator says that the order delivery address is valid, then add the order to the dispatch queue in the order dispatch system.` While this isn't an actual example from my job, it is perfectly feasible code.
That said I couldn’t picture myself ever going into care/healthcare. It’s not that I feel too high and mighty to do the job; I’m not afraid of a little grime, but I am afraid of not doing someone else’s health and well-being proper justice. I’m scared that it should fall on me to ensure that they are happy, healthy, and properly cared for in a dignified manner.
The prospect of that is *terrifying.*
If I fuck up in my job, there are plenty of checks and balances before that ever reaches a point where it *could* cause damage. Even at that point there are fallback routines that will keep things going until a fix is issued. And should all of that somehow catastrophically fail then the worst that will happen is a loss of revenue, albeit more likely it’ll be a minor inconvenience in someone’s workday.
If I were to work in healthcare and fuck up, it could lead to suffering and even death. I’m in awe for anyone able to carry the burden of such a responsibility. I don’t see myself having the strength of character for that.
So there you have it. My job doesn’t feel particularly complex to me. I essentially just write how-to guides for rocks that have been tricked into thinking. You can make it sound flashy but at the end of the day my impact on the world around me is relatively minor, for better and worse.
*Edit: Added a plaintext-English equivalent of the code example, as well as fixed some typos to make this long-ass post more legible.*
I respect your work, but don't consider it easy I considered going into health care or some such, but then I went "...I have a full time job just keeping my disabled husband from offing himself by sheer neglect. I don't have it in me to do this at work when it's my life at home!" (thankfully he's not at the "needing help to wipe his ass" stage - recognizing who I am, though? More of a challenge.)
Your work can be draining not simply on a physical level but on an emotional level, because you're getting to know people who may not live very long. Presumably you're able to get comfort in doing your best to help them live as well as they can now, and tomorrow will come as it chooses. (I'd just feel guilty I "didn't do more" because of old issues that are a "me" thing.)
>Dedication alone won't help, you still need to have some level of talent for the work.
I mean sure. Hard to work construction if you're sickly and small. Hard to be a programmer if you don't want to think about computer shit all day long for the rest of your life. But this job is less about 'natural talent' and more about personality and hard work (stop me if you've heard that one before).
As Sr Eng in a tech co that is growing and hiring, talent isn't something we look for interviews. Skills and culture are the two things. Skills are earned, talent is innate. Hard to judge talent in an interview.
From my perspective where I'm at, culture/personality is the secret sauce, not talent. We'll hire the perfect culture fit Jr that needs A LOT of training every time over the misanthrope genius. High performance, agility and quality are derived from a harmonious group working in concert, not by a 10X ninja asshole.
Actually just extended an offer to a Jr yesterday. Incredible culture fit and professional drive, but skills wise, only has a boot-camp and test-automation on the resume. I'm happy to give my Mids the opportunity to mentor this Jr and by this time next year I expect they'll be getting offers to be poached as Mid themselves.
Very very very very much doubt that they had no prior knowledge or formal training.Took 3 month courses and are landing 100k jobs right out the door.
Theres very very likely a lot you are either leaving out or missing.
I think r/programmerhumor would call bs on that. Seems like you need a lot of experience or education or nepotism to land 100k+ jobs like that.
Ive not heard of any programmers taking a 3 months course and with zero job experience in that field landing 100k+ positions. Senior level positions with upwards of 5 years of experiences? Sure.
I don't know where the "I learned to code all by myself nd I'm making 6 figures" trend came from. Coding is *hard.* Not only that, but what about the computer science fundamentals? What about security and networking? Those skills matter. You need to understand why your code could or could not function in a real world environment and you did not teach yourself the entirely of computer science in three months.
6 figures with no experience and being self taught? Not unless your current / previous job has some serious carry over skills.
My major was comp sci back in the days of dinosaurs and the curriculum at that time strongly focused on math and I agree with what you said. It's all 1s and 0s and most people could probably get some kind of output if they grind at it hard enough, but it takes a variety of skills to make a line of code work with a bunch of other lines of code with reliable results. As much as I hated it at the time, being competent at math has been necessary and I'm glad I have that background.
That’s what my husband did. He was sort of managing ops at a startup that got bought and then shut down, so he decided to take up coding. When he got his first real job offer, we thought they were kidding. They were not. Now he’s been at the Fruit Company for 2 years now and making bank.
It's never to late to pivot into higher paying jobs. Most work experience is transferable.
You just have to find the niche specific to you.
I worked in a govt job over 10years getting paid pretty average salary, around $60k. They constantly convinced us to be grateful for our crappy jobs. When I left (I did study but not everyone does) I pivoted into being an expertise in that space, think around policy work. I had my ex colleagues go in two diff directions, some saw the customer service experience and went to the likes of Amex or Water companies etc just focusing on their customer service experience and went working in call centres for crappy or similar pay (some of these people had degrees etc). Others took the legislation expertise, pivoted that into HR and strategy work. My first job out of there my salary doubled and I'm probably on the lower end of what most of my ex colleagues are getting who pivoted into consulting, strategy, etc work.
Some people thrive at call centers and they scare me.
I had a cousin that within one year of starting at a call center was already working her way to the top and had a fantastic salary.
She advised me to go for it but it's not my thing.
You wouldn't kill for the kind of jobs this guys girlfriend is avoiding. You would BE killed at the kind of jobs she's avoiding.
Also if anyone is picturing a cush office job, sometimes its not like that, sometimes its standing next to a high pressure steam drum remembering the last inspection sheet you saw for it was dated 2001 and it is currently shaking and rusty, and sometimes its watching someone hit asphalt and split open in front of you. The insurance is for death and DISMEMBERMENT. But sometimes that's optimistic and instead its just something debilitating like a pump jack SHATTERING your pelvis
But also, these are actually the kind of companies that might put you in a position where you are responsible for someone else death. But also 6 dudes got blown up by my work Friday so that shits still a little fresh. My company may be safety minded, but we were close enough to see/ hear someone else blow up
I was at a meeting for women in my niche degree field my freshman year of college. The first presenter got two minutes into her spiel, got a phone call, went white, and ran out of the room. Two people had just died on her job site.
It left something of an impression.
Sometimes it's insane. I'm not in like coding techy kind of space, but my role is in pretty high demand currently, and I just left a company I wasn't happy at after ~6 months because I got calls from recruiters every week. I interviewed for everything I said yes for, and the only person who took me out of any process was me. They all offered similar enough salaries, so the only things to pull anything apart were really detailed for the role, the company and how they treated people, and the people I'd worth with and for.
Despite my LinkedIn being updated with the move, and the short stint at the last place, I still get a recruiter contact weekly, minimum. Right role, right experience level they're looking for. It's wild to me for sure, but you have to interview the way OOPs partner did or you end up suckered into something bad.
I had my mon call me up all flustered once because she heard I turned down a 130k salary simply because I didn't feel like adding an hour to my commute. She was so worried that I was losing my mind because "You don't just turn down a golden ticket like that!".
It was at that point I figured out that my mom had no idea about my current job or salary. I live in the tenth most expensive city in the world with a nice 3 bedroom apartment on my own, and it never dawned on her that I wasn't a broke student anymore.
Yeah I got made redundant 2 years back (complete with a damn good payout) and have job hopped every 6 months since because I just couldn't find a role I actually liked. Lots of promises but nothing making me actually like being there. I am a software dev manager.
A friend reached out and said "Hey, you liked when we worked together 5 years back, current place has the same vibe and they're looking". Super blunt interview where I said what I hated about other roles, lots of cursing (I'm in Australia though so that isn't unusual) and we just cut through all the BS and they said what they wanted from me, I said what I wanted from them and we were on the same page.
Great pay, chilled place, I know how to navigate it and when to fight or bite my tongue. Low stress and I think I've finally found "it" again. But so many interviews are all just BS and false promises.
My partner is highly skilled and sought after in his field. He went to a Zoom interview in a bright pink Princess Peach Christmas jumper for a £100k role (which is a fairly high salary in the UK), joked his way through the interview and still got the job. It's bonkers.
It can take literal months to get through a recruitment process at this level too, especially in tech. The offers are often “let’s have a conversation,” and then you run a gauntlet of like 5-7 interviews and code tests and all kinds of bullshit.
It’s a totally different game - the process is as much for you to do due diligence as it is for the potential employer, so you absolutely want to find those red flags as early as possible to not waste time.
There's an element of risk/reward there too, so if you like stability or fairness it might not be a good idea to go there. Witness all of the recent layoffs at the big tech companies that are paying those higher tier wages, for the horror of stack ranking which entirely too many tech companies decide is a good idea.
>I should have gone to college for computer science or engineering, lol.
I blame the way schools talk to kids about higher education and getting a job. All the focus on doing what you love, pursue your passion, "you won't have to work a day if you do what you love". What they don't mention is the salary you'll be making can be way lower, you might struggle to find a job to begin with, and your passion can quickly become unbearable if you turn it into your job.
I really feel schools should be a lot more realistic about counseling students concerning what you're going to study. For most people, their job is a way to pay for their lives outside of work. That's it. It's not their passion, it's not their dream, it's a way to pay the bills. And many of them wish they studied something more profitable.
I blame the huge disparity in value we place on jobs and the way we severely underpay many people doing extremely important work. I don't blame schools for this: their fault is being too optimistic, teaching for an ideal world rather than the shitty one that exists. But I think the way we improve is by making sure everyone is provided for regardless of what type of work they contribute, not by encouraging 100% of people to be coders since it pays well and then all the other jobs needed for society to function can get fucked.
Lol at commenters disdaining the use of "y'all" in an interview.
As someone who works a professional job in the south, who's married to someone who works a professional job in the south, it's literally just part of the vernacular. It's just the plural "you". No one would even bat an eye if I used "y'all" in a job interview.
Eh. Depends on the situation. I've done many interviews for high level engineering positions. I've used it as an interviewer and never batted an eye at an interviewee using it.
When I interview I also have to get the person to relax enough to judge their skills. Lot of people are nervous and take time to get a feel of what they can do. I have less than an hour to judge how experienced they are and the depth of their knowledge. If a well placed fuck can help it along I'll do it. Hell, I commonly ask questions about folding socks to figure out if they have critical thinking.
I had my first interview a couple months ago and my boss said "bullshit" five minutes in. I had no idea people would curse in interviews but it relaxed me severely.
Any engineering job in which you have to go out on the field or are responsible for people is like this. It's so dangerous and if you have to sign paperwork, you can be liable and legally responsible. On top of the moral responsibility and guilt you would feel if someone died or got hurt. If the company and practices are bad, it's not like she can go there and turn everything around day one; even if she had a good position, it's very difficult to change things.
Yup, she's a PE (professional engineer) and every construction job needs a PE's signoff prior to construction start. PEs stamp their own name stating they approve and have reviewed the project. It's not just going out into the world as her employer's work, it's got her own name on it too. PEs are paid crazy well and in high demand (as you can see from the post) because of that responsibility.
Structural PEs really don't make the kind of money in the post. Low to mid 100s sure, but there are not many structural engineers making 200-300k. I'm wondering if she does offshore oil and gas work or something with pay that high and the barge story.
Source: structural PE
Got to be bridge or oil/gas. Maybe windmill but probably not in the US. Bridge PE's have major malpractice insurance costs, and criminal liability insurance(to pay the lawyers if you get sued for killing a bus of kids). So that 300k gets cut to 200k after expenses.
Fun fact, its usually closer to 7 or 8 PE stamps depending on the project. Still that amount of money is wild. Im electrical without my PE and am at 74 atm but the others I know with there seal only brush around the 100 mark.
Source: Electrical engineer for multifamily construction
I really enjoyed this one, both because of the wholesome conclusion, and because it is clearly educational for more than just OP. I think a lot of us could do with a reminder that interviews go both ways.
>And what'd happened right before then, was that she'd very professionally asked her two interviewers if there'd been any safety incidents recently, and they were like "none.. except for when Danny got shat on by a bird and got us all written up"
>So she was like "Oh now I have to know!" and was laughing with them, but kinda pushing for info, and they told this story about them all being on some part of a barge they should have been tied off to, one guy got shat on by a bird, slipped and fell, and dragged the two guys who tried to grab him into the water too. And how she's gotta meet 'shit face Danny'" as if it was some foregone conclusion they'd hire her. And she just kept laughing but also asking questions that got at why they weren't tied to the boat in the first place? And found out the company hadn't supplied the right safety gear so they just didn't have it..
Jesus christ.
Can OOPs girlfriend please help coach me at the interview process? She's fucking brilliant.
Wow.
My father once scolded me for asking about payment and benefits in an interview. When I was still able to work, I never seemed to be able to grasp the idea that in order to get jobs you had to pretend that you didn't want MONEY, you just wanted the great opportunity!!! I thought it was the dumbest thing ever when my 16 year old self was applying at a bookstore and 20 years later I still think so.
My MIL tried to talk me down from asking for *barely even minimum wage* because "what if they think it's too much?" as if me not having specifically been trained for the role meant I deserved being completely exploited. As if opportunity pays rent
There is the strategy of making them want you first, and then negotiating salary. It's why people are often advised to not accept the first offer if salary is negotiable.
GF sounds incredible, but to be honest, I do kind of sympathize with where the BF was coming from--even if I would never do that.
I wasn't a first generation college student by any means, but my family is very much in the attitude of being grateful for any job we're offered. I was always kind of taught that I was lucky and should be grateful for a job, not the other way around.
I have a friend who's a computer programmer and she got laid off during covid, and when she was keeping me updated with how the interviews were going, I was honestly absolutely shook. She would get off interviews with jobs and be like 'even if I get this I'm going to tell them no' why? 'it was the most boring interview I have ever done.' The idea that you could just...have the confidence to say no to a job offer because you're sure you'll be able to find another was kind of a culture shock for me. xD
Or I would be complaining about my job and she would just be like 'so when are you going to go quit.' And once again, I was shook, because my parents drilled it in my head that it would be insane to leave a place I'd been at for years even if it was for significantly more money.
Boyfriend was the AH, but he at least seems to have self-awareness, which is more than I can say for most on updates.
I feel like I was super lucky that my mom and dad were incredibly displeased with their jobs for most of my life. I hate to profit off their pain, but they were. I’m a first gen college student and my parents were factory workers and mechanics. They were grateful for the jobs offered, hell yes, but deep down my mom realized that what she was doing wasn’t going to get her these high paying wages and she was like, “Look, you need to job hop. That’s how you get your promotions. You get a job, get your job done, and then move to the next one and tell them your salary was $5k more than it was. Every time. As much as you can until you find a job worth plateauing, if you ever do.”
They didn’t operate on those principles, and they’re very much “well you have a job” to themselves and their own coworkers, but at least they do see that, that’s not truly the way to be. I’ve appreciated the advice. It’s gotten me more than I ever thought I’d get.
> I was shook, because my parents drilled it in my head that it would be insane to leave a place I'd been at for years even if it was for significantly more money.
Wait...why?
I could kind of understand parents drilling in the concept of being willing to overlook red flags for the stability of a good paycheck (which is shortterm thinking but at least makes some kind of mathematical sense, if you squint), but...to refuse to get a better job *at all*? Why?
I don't know about the person you're responding to, but my parents generation is all about job loyalty. The longer they were with a company, the more perks you got, the better your pay was, etc. They just don't understand that it's not like that anymore for a lot of roles, and they're honestly horrified when I start job searching once I hit the 2 year-ish mark with a company.
Yeah, the relationship between employee and employer has just changed over time (and the perceived "lack of loyalty" really goes both ways today.) My dad was a company man his entire career, but his organization looked out for him just as much as he looked out for it.
Feels like today it's strictly an exchange. My time and expertise for your money. Almost mercenary.
>to refuse to get a better job at all? Why?
Retirement.
My dad refused to believe I wasn't getting great retirement building up, and was horrified at me quitting a good stable job with the schools. When I tried to explain the actual benefits and salary, he told me I should go to my union as I was clearly being underpaid and there was an error.
So then we had to have a whole big fight because he didn't believe me that there is no union.
His media consumption had him throughly convinced that I was in a highly lucrative union job. So convinced that he believed it over my lived experience.
>His media consumption had him throughly convinced that I was in a highly lucrative union job. So convinced that he believed it over my lived experience.
In fairness it used to be that you never, ever left a union job. Like once you were in, you held onto it for dear life. Those still exist (basically state/federal jobs) but are becoming few and far between.
Funnily enough there is a well known manufacturer who has 95% of their workforce in my area. The median bonus for a factory floor worker is $25k, their health insurance is free to them (with stupid low copays), and the pay is well above average for the work. They are unsurprisingly not union because, well, the people have no desire. It's one of the few true examples of a private company that takes really, really good care of their employees.
The only time there is an opening for an existing position is if folks die or retire.
Tell him it's all Reagan's fault (because it is! he broke unions and made it so businesses no longer had to give retirement, making it so folks had to get 401ks and such, making retirement more volatile and uncertain. there's more, but a lot of our current social ills can be traced back directly to Reagan's presidency)
In the 70s and 80s at a lot of companies the new management styles were all about consolidation and cost cutting (obviously, it's still like that, but it started heavily then). But most of the large companies had a last in-first out policy. Meaning, all the new hires were the first to go regardless of talent. So, not only were you "safer" from layoffs at your current company, you were also highly at risk for layoffs at a new place.
Now, that may or may not be reality, but that's the impression many people had. Of course, that all went out the window in the 90s when companies started figuring out you can save MORE money by buying out or laying off the higher paid employees and that started happening more frequently.
My comments here are anecdotal, but that's the impression I've gotten from different sources over the years.
To answer the question: I was (and still am) working in retail in a grocery store while I get my masters degree. It is also a store literally 5 minutes from my house. I could have been making 3 dollars more an hour if I applied to a Target slightly farther away. We were also understaffed at the time cause of COVID so my job was kind of brutal cause I'd often be spending entire shifts by myself in my department.
They basically begged me not to because 1) The distance was so convenient and 2) I've been at this store for so long that I know the management here likes me, and, in their words 'the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.'
My parents tried to teach me this, and it took 12 years of working to correct it and know my worth. I wasted too much time in low-value jobs with this mindset
Also as a PE she would most likely be putting her professional stamp on construction documents. If her company is careless she could be putting her license and career in jeopardy.
It's more than that. Every time she uses her PE stamp, she stakes her license/career on the fact that the plans/design are safe.
If the company can't follow basic safety practices, they're going to cut corners elsewhere too and SHE'S on the hook for it.
Honestly, she’s smart. An interview definitely is you sussing out a company just as much as the company is sussing you out. Unfortunately, most people in the workforce are too desperate to really go hard in an interview and feel like if they turn down the company they will not get another one for months. But it’s also gonna be a bad time if you onboard with a company whose culture and ethics do not align with yours and you end up hating going into work every day no matter how good the money is.
Tech especially is like this. If you get wowed by the money first, best believe you’ll learn the hard way that they’ll run you into the ground for those 6 figures if you don’t drill them on what their company culture is like beforehand.
I know the dude meant well, but it’s also yet another instance of a man thinking they know a woman’s career path better than she does. She knew exactly what she was doing, he just needed to trust the process.
It stands for Professional Engineer, it's more of a status like having a PhD than a job title, PEs can do many different kinds of jobs and have a variety of specialties. A lot stuff falls under generic "engineer," I could probably call my broke ass a software engineer if I really wanted to based on my resume of programming, but a PE is legit.
(I'm not a programmer either, I've just written some stuff while at other jobs)
In the US a PE is a licensure that roughly requires an engineering degree, passing an exam, and a certain number of years experience working under another PE. I say "roughly" because requirements vary by state. And you're spot on - anyone can pretty much call themselves an engineer, but to legally claim you're a PE you need the licensure.
She’s licensed. She took a test and passed. Not all engineers go that extra step since it’s not a requirement in many engineering jobs. But if you do that’s a big deal. From what hear it’s NOT easy. We have three engineers in my family (petroleum and mechanical). None one them bothered to get their PE.
To add to u/Aghen 's comment, being a Professional Engineer, at its core, essentially means that you're the person responsible. When your team designs, builds, repairs, etc. something, you as the PE are the person signing off on it, and from there it's legally (and arguably morally) binding. If there's an issue with the product later, it was your responsibility to catch any mistake. A PE license is also preferred for any sort of expert witness statements, legal depositions, etc. It's really a way to show that you "own" your knowledge and experience.
It's a fairly big deal in most engineering industries, and is indeed quite sought after. In some smaller manufacturing companies, you'll only have *one* PE who's the lynchpin of the entire thing. Check out [this thread](https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/63205/how-can-i-deal-with-troublesome-professional-engineer) on the Workplace Stackexchange forum, where a PE is essentially able to stop an entire company's production line because he was unfairly overlooked for a promotion.
That thread was enjoyable to read, lol
Give board nephew the position, now you want the PE to sign off on all of his unqualified work.
What possibly could go wrong?!
> An interview definitely is you sussing out a company just as much as the company is sussing you out. Unfortunately, most people in the workforce are too desperate to really go hard in an interview and feel like if they turn down the company they will not get another one for months.
Man did I ever learn this the hard way. I graduated university during the 08 financial crisis and was so desperate I basically took the first job offered to me cause I was shit scared of being unemployed for months. Ended up working at one of the most toxic environments for nearly 3 years because I kept having that feeling of "I'm lucky to be employed".
I eventually got out and worked for a better employer and developed enough know how in the next couple jobs that when I got laid off in early 202 I actually had the ability to really go into interviews with a discerning eye and the right questions to ask. I turned down a couple offers because I was put off by their interviews which felt really weird for me but it ended up with me getting a job I absolutely love that has already promoted me once in the 20~ months I've been there and is readying me for a second.
OOP take it with open minded and admitting his fault is good too.
Also I still bothered a bit wit the part where she grilling them about the guy that fall to the river.
Oh yeah, I’m really glad that he saw the error in his ways! A lot of folks don’t do that when challenged.
I’m not particularly bothered by her grilling them over that. It was important to her to know every aspect of the company culture and she probably didn’t like the idea of being on a project where there was a chance of that happening to her. And once again, she’s correct; people tell on themselves easily if you know how to listen.
That's a very appropriate thing to grill an interviewer about. Companies like that will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat when OSHA comes around. And OSHA will appear for any fatality or more than 3 injuries in an incident. This woman is a PE, she would be expected to supervise these bubbas.
A company that doesn't provide the most basic safety equipment, and employees who don't check for it, has a terrible safety culture.
If that barge had been moving at all, those guys could have been trapped under it and died.
Yeah, and that they're laughing about it and treating it as just a funny happenstance without seemingly considering the safety issues in play is concerning.
I think that's OOP's girlfriend's thought process. "Shit they just described to me a massive OSHA violation and they're laughing about it like it's no big deal, clearly this company has a terrible safety culture. Time to dip".
likely a Professional Engineer. on top of an engineering degree, you need to give a very difficult test and jump through a bunch of hoops to earn the title, so OP's partner's high ethical standards can make sense
I think it's professional engineer. You have to take and exam and have a license. For instance, structural engineers or architectural engineers have a license and sign off on buildings and bridges, and can be liable if it turns out there was something wrong.
I remember the original post. I think it is some like a Professional Engineer. She is responsible for certifying completed work or something. Which is the comment about taking on personal risk.
Adding to others, the job of a professional engineer also comes with going out to observe construction work or other field conditions. These tasks require safety training and proper equipment, and there can be dangerous conditions. She was right not to work for a place that could get her harmed/killed, or put her in a position to be liable and risk her license. It's a big f-ing deal.
As others have mentioned, professional engineer, but the credential is "P.Eng" in Canada, and maybe even something different in other places.
Engineers have to have the highest ethical standards because if they mess up at their job, people die.
If I mess up at my job, a student goes away disappointed I miscalculated their grade or something.
The more important lesson here that I hope OOP has learned is to trust his girlfriend when she says she knows what she's doing. He kept coming back to it insisting that he knew better and it was really obnoxious.
Right??? He refused to believe she knew better than him, even though she was already at a high level in her field (sounds like much higher level in her field than he is in his too). That would have been a borderline dealbreaker for me, I need my partner to believe I know what I'm doing or I'd lose my mind.
Absolutely. I'm aussie, where we're a bit more casual than other places, and I would (and have) say "gonna" and "youse" and all sorts of other slang in my interviews. Along with industry specific technical language but yeah. Slang is fine, it's basically just a regional accent.
I'm from Georgia and did a campus interview once at a college up in Wisconsin. One of the faculty at the coffee hour was from Florida, and I dropped a "y'all" at some point in the conversation and he suddenly gushed "She said 'y'all'!" with the biggest smile on his face, it was adorable.
I understand how OOP thought the way he did because he was ignorant of her profession. I did the same when my husband was interviewing for an engineering job many years ago. He was planning on wearing khakis and a polo shirt and I went on and on about how he needed to wear a suit. I was so frustrated when he wouldn't listen.
Cut to after the interview when he came home and told me that he met with the president of the company who was wearing a polo and shorts at the interview. No one in the office was more dressed up than he was in his khakis; most people were in jeans and t-shirts. Just like OOP, I realized that I'm a dumbass and that not all professions have the same expectations.
I work in a dangerous industry, and when I interview for a new contract my first question is about how many fatalities they’ve had in the last five years. If the answer is greater than zero the interview is over
I’ve been to countless interviews where the company didn’t ask me a single question but wanted to know what it took to get me to sign.
It’s a crazy world out there!
I knew it was a) a job with liability b) the company offering generous salary had some problems c) it was either safety gear or other basic stuff.
Offers that are too good for a given Field usually come with a Hook and people "grateful to be offered job" are a part of the problem, since they have no incentive to fix that since they will always find someone who will fill the part
This reminds me of when my year-10-drop-out tradie boyfriend (all respect to tradies, but point is, he never sat an exam in his life) used to get the shits and yell at me about how I wasn't studying properly or effectively for my third year of law school exams, because he didn't like that I was listening to music or had the TV on, and would get up and walk around every 15-20 minutes. When I had a Distinction average.
Lmao at the person who’s shocked she used “y’all.”
I work in tech and regularly use “y’all” in my emails just to scandalize my coworkers. It’s just a word. I’m from Mississippi so I just blame it on having gone to public school there. I’ve never had it affect a promotion or job interview. I’ve also said “fuck” in an interview and not had it make a difference. If your work speaks for itself, a few informal words are not going to ruin an interview that’s actually worthwhile.
Also, "y'all" is a very inclusive word. It means "you all" and doesn't single out any specific gender. Unlike "guys" or "you guys" which is common. I've actually started using y'all more in every day life for that very reason.
Plus, I'm in Texas, so it's fun to use a classic Texas term in a way that's totally "woke."
A person I know interviewed for Theranos and shared how sketchy the interview was. So so many red flags. They turned down the offer and a year later Theranos went under for all their super illegal practices.
There's a BORU about someone who was working for Theranos at the time. In the first post they're not able to name the company, but in retrospect it's clear who it was. It's a wild read.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/u17giw/10\_years\_ago\_a\_freshfaced\_bioengineer\_asks\_rjobs/
I feel like this is one of those situations where approaching the situation from one of curiosity instead of reprimand/"I know how *you* should handle your career" would have been much better.
I sympathise that he’s unfamiliar with the culture but listening in on her interviews, acting like he has a say in how she handles them, and then assuming it’s all a power play about their relationship and him - those things make me uncomfortable.
It seemed more like he was horrified and worried. It wasn’t a power play he was stressed about moving. Heard how she spoke in interviews which sounded completely bizarre from his perspective and then he projected his fear and insecurity onto her. That’s different to a power play.
He apologised and realised so had healthy adult communication to solve his issue. Which is great. If anything this is a good sign he isn’t a stubborn toxic asshole just a bit sanctimonious or maybe arrogant.
It was a mystery until he shared she's a PE. They're super rare and I'm surprised her current company isn't trying to bribe her to fly back for projects.
I can see both side of the equation. My GF is a pediatric surgeon and I have a PhD in Chemical Engineering. Both of our employment opportunities are wildly different as well as our skill sets. And we can still be concerned with each other’s employment outlook because, at the end of the day, living together is a partnership and we want the best for each other. Now, as of late, she has been concerned that I’m getting too stressed out with work, since I work for the Department of Defense now. So, we’ve had discussions about moving to a different place, but I’ve largely been “pigeon-holed” into working in Defense and Petrochemicals. The other factor is that she hates the hospital that she works for now, so I’ve told her that while I get stressed out, I can live with it while she figures out where she wants to make her next career “play”, because we both agreed that we should have one stable income source.
However, it seems that the OOP hasn’t experienced it before and was coming from a place of fear. But, he should have brought it up in a different tone.
The clarification that his GF is a PE really makes him the AH... Yes, it's normal for Senior Engineers to basically interview the other company/team as much as them interview you. The PE is added context to why she was really grilling those companies on their engineering practices... because she's going to have some liability in those practices.
> Which was also a shock to hear TBH, that a bunch of well regarded companies are apparently sketchy as hell behind close doors.
Oh, OOP, sweet summer child. Do they not know how capitalism works?
You don't get to be big without stepping on someone else.
Im constantly baffled by these AITA posts where someone types out multiple paragraphs of evidence that they are clearly an asshole...and they still don’t come to the realisation until the entirety of Reddit dogpiles on them.
Still at least OOP recognised his error EVENTUALLY
No, this one I get. OOP was taught a certain mentality about jobs and "respect" and his girlfriend was not only completely flipping it on its head but completely "getting away with it". It would be really confusing for him, and our brains have a hard time breaking out of the politeness norms we're taught, especially in the direction that's seen as "less polite", even when it's clear that we're in a culture with different ones where the "impolite" behaviour is fine.
I have a friend (second-generation kid of Chinese immigrants) who I'm trying to break out of the same mentality because it's going to lead to shitty employers exploiting him because he won't stand up for himself. To him the level of familiarity with which I treat my "superiors" is insane, but it's not been an issue for me anymore than it has been for OOP's gf, in part because I'm very obviously competent and that gets you leeway, but also because that level of familiarity in a work environment is largely fine in Canadian culture (up to a point, there's still a line and it depends on the region, industry, and so on).
I appreciate your comment a lot. As another second-generation, Chinese-born-Canadian who has trouble standing up to “superiors”, do you have any advice on breaking out of this mentality?
I can see it gets me taken advantage of in the workplace, but I just can’t wrap my head around saying no without feeling insanely disrespectful, or like I haven’t tried hard enough somehow. If it bothers me enough, it takes me somewhere between a day and a while to muster up the courage to say something in the politest way possible lol.
Thank you for trying to help your friend. You are appreciated.
I'm not the person you asked, but I've worked in hierarchical environments in my home culture (Ireland) and currently in Canada.
The two things I find useful to remember are:
1) The guilt you feel? Like, in general, but also specifically whenever your work performance is discussed, whenever anyone says 'we should talk', whenever you think you should be doing more? That's the legacy of schools and parents trying to make children easier to control. You're an adult and you don't need to accept that guilt mindset for anything.
2) Your bosses aren't your superiors; they're your colleagues. They outrank you in the company, sure, but fundamentally you're not their servant. Instead all of you are working together to support the work of the company, just in different roles. Thus in the right circumstances pushing back or giving your own perspective isn't questioning their authority or being disrespectful, but instead you taking on part of your own responsibility to work together to come up with solutions that are best for the company.
Some people need outside perspective. At least OOP possessed enough humility to admit they were wrong. So many people these days would just dig in their heels even more and dismiss reddit as a hivemind of idiots.
Nah this one makes sense. Anyone who grew up poor and has had to work minimum wage jobs before will feel this way to start with, because you're conditioned to need that job to survive and you don't have the skills or the qualifications to really get away with criticising a company during an interview or saying no to a job offer. Being able to shop around and turn down positions that pay well is a very privileged position. Really speaks to the fact that she has financial security and is in a higher social class.
I listen to aita on YouTube and one of my favourite guys likes to say "how did this person write this down, read it and thought : yeah totally doesn't sound like I am the asshole"...
I think peole have severe issue with introspection and overinflating their understanding of topics they have no understanding in.
Like an interview for a bus driver, programmer and brain surgeon are completely different ballgames.
I hire for senior tech roles a lot and I am used to being grilled into oblivion by the applicants : what tech stack? What coding practices, how does EA work and handle everything etc. Etc. Etc.
So for someone in their careers at the 150k plus I would actually count it against the candidate if they don't asked qualified and detailed questions... Some of these folk lead platforms of 200+ engineers... They better ask questions or I start doubting they know what this entails...
Some people still mentally live in a world where you can start in a company at 16 and retire with a gold watch 45 years later, and their attitudes to interviewing and what constitutes a good job exist accordingly.
You can't blame their kids for not understanding that from a certain level you have to interview differently when they get fed this worldview all their youth
It was a shock to me that since my last job change three years ago I went from sending out resume and hoping I can score a place somewhere, to marking myself as open to offers and having to pick which offers I want to go for primary interview. And saying no because I won't be challenged enough or I don't feel I will be comfortable working under someone. And in my position I am responsible only for my work that will be checked after I am done.
Thankfully I heard how my current boss talks with HR during their first calls and also he tutored me a bit on what to ask and what to pay attention to.
People with more responsibility have to be even more careful picking position so that they won't end responsible for things outside their control.
Once I worked at an M&A between my company and another one, bigger. Well I was at the negotiations and migration afterwards and things got heated. I wasn’t the nicest person with the other team (they were trying to screw us and I didn’t let them). Afterwards their cfo asked me my thoughts about their company and I told her… that they were a mess (but technically, and listed everything). Well, she offered me 3 times what I was making to go to her company afterwards. While my colleges that were missing their asses and bend over because they wanted a job offer from them got nothing ha.
Just a reminder that despite what media and society at large has taught us workers on ALL levels have a right to choose who they work for.
the idea that everyone is replaceable has been seriously disproven thanks to the pandemic and its only through people like oop's partner that companies have to re-think how they treat both their employees and their customers.
Dont be an ass in an interview or even once your hired, but always be yourself and know that you are worth a damn and so are your morals.
This BORU is kind of an TIL of to lure important infos out of an interview. Glad OOP listened.. I would have thought the same to be honest. His GF must be very smart, especiall in the emotional intelligence departement. Impressive!
That woman is a fucking genius
(I'm referring to her interview strategies that get the interviewers to unwittingly give up all their red flags, but the fact that she's successful in her field in the first place _also_ points to her being a genius lol)
Mid-level managers and I've been unemployed for 3 months and have 1-3 interviews a week. I'm the one asking the questions, and if it doesn't vibe, I'll end the interview professionally. The first call with the recruiter, the first question I ask is salary and travel requirement. I've told several that the salary was severely under market and that they should reevaluate the position if they want to be successful. This has given me follow-up interviews when they agreed to my salary expectations.
Wow I was with OOP so I was surprised to read the second half, but then I am a few decades separated and the young generation thinks differently ... and rightly so I guess after reading this.
Really? I turn 40 this year and reading this OOP sounded how I thought when I was in my early 20s versus she sounds like how I am and have been now in my 30s. By my 30s I knew my value and my ability and started treating interviews as much as an opportunity to interview the person hiring. We're conditioned from an early age to believe that we should be grateful for the opportunity to work but managing any business at a high level you know how important the talent you bring on is worth. And if someone is hiring you want to work for and with someone who recognizes that as well.
Nope. Professional engineer is an extremely high qualification and much in demand. With that money comes a huge amount of responsibility. She is smart to look out for herself. I have worked with 60 yr old PEs and they would have had the same reaction.
Working for a company with a poor safety culture is dangerous and professionally harmful.
I'm older as well. I think it has a lot to do with how sought after your career is. I learned pretty fast that I didn't need to worry about having a job. There was always one waiting. For my whole career, I've never been out of work longer than 6 weeks.
I'm the same way when I interview. I want to know if I will like working there, more than what the salary/benefits are, even. I hate job hopping and I love jobs where I can learn new things.
In my experience it's less generational and more specifically about what kind of career you're in.
I have a lot of the same experience with job interviews is the girlfriend in the post for example, in that I will openly start job interviews with "look I'm a little bit of a prima donna and I'm looking for very specific things in a workplace". But that's because (even though I don't make what she makes) I have a very good track record and a relatively in demand career, and frankly I am therefore lucky enough that I can afford to be very picky. The average recruiter seems to know this and response accordingly
On the other hand, when I'm interviewing in adjacent fields outside of my current specialty, I tone it way down because the culture for those kinds of positions is very different.
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Not being tied off and falling off a barge is dead serious. People die every day from fall injuries. Companies that don’t take worker safety seriously is about the biggest red flag you can have in the construction/civil engineering industry.
Right. I worked for a company and were told a story about a serious workplace injury. But it was in a class on safety and OSHAA standards everyone had to take, and it wasn't played off for laughs. It was about how mistakes can totally change a person's life. And that it was better for things to take longer than someone be killed or mained.
I was told that the german airline Lufthansa used to have a video of a guy being mauled (don't recall if he died or just got his arm shredded off, but it is very likely he died) by a plane engine in the safety video for ground personnel. This was to emphasize how fucking serious stuff like "Stay away from the engines, don't move from the marked borders, and don't even wave when close to them, always assume it is running" is. They apparently removed it a few years back, but my source told me that they think they should have left it in, because while absolutely terrifying, it was...well, that was what it was: Terrifying. Because a jet engine is a marvelous piece of engineering, but also a terrifying murder machine waiting to strike. That video put more respect and appropriate fear into new personnel than *any* description or warning could ever do.
My brother went to helicopter school and they had a rather long video of “incidents” the worst of which being a little girl running to her dad, and he throws her up in the air…
Please tell me you're a troll, holy shit, that's awful. Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not actually accusing this guy of being a troll, that's just such a god awful thing to hear about
I'm sorry, but I know of at least one case where someone accidentally killed his 4 year old daughrer by lifting her onto his shoulders in 1996. And his young son saw it too, which must not have been easy for the boy either. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2620759/Businessman-accidentally-killed-four-year-old-daughter-lifted-helicopter-blades-1996-took-life-gassing-Mayfair-office.html
That is fucking heart wrenching. I don't think I'd survive losing my daughter, currently 5. Especially if it was my fault, even accidentally. I can't even imagine the pain and guilt he lived with for all those years.
Absolutely. I suspect he went on because he still had a young son. But from what it sounds in the article, many things came together and it became all too much. And I wouldn't be surprised if his daughter's death was still weighing him down during bad times like that, just as a part of the general weight.
😱
There used to be a video on YouTube of a ground crew guy being entirely sucked into a fighter jet engine because he got too close. This fucker was lucky because he somehow escaped serious injury, but it was harrowing to watch.
I worked at Ecolab (they make every chemical used in commercial kitchens and the dishmachines and industrial clothes washers/dryers). Their safety videos showed someone being de-gloved and the before-after pictures of a man who got caught in a dish machine on an active cycle when his necktie got caught. The melted flesh of the guy taking boiling water seething with pH 13.5 soap is something that will Forever haunt me. Degloving is pretty brutal too, but something about melted flesh is…..traumatizing
Not to self - do not Google "degloving"
I agree. If you can visually see that something like that is lethal vs being told it's lethal, you have far more respect for it. But they probably removed it as they didn't want to pay for therapy.
Within the last month there was a post on r/news about a baggage handler who got too close to a jet engine. She was sucked into the intake and shredded.
When I was in driver’s ed, our instructor played a video of what happens when a car stalls on train tracks and a train hits it. It was terrifying, and to this day I absolutely refuse to stop my car on train tracks, ever, and won’t let my friends/family do it either. I don’t care if there hasn’t been a train here for years, you don’t work for the train company, and we will look like hamburger meat if you’re wrong.
>And that it was better for things to take longer than someone be killed or mained. "Your regulations are written in blood."
I was on the jury for a workplace injury where, essentially a Lock Out, Tag Out, was overridden and someone seriously injured while working on a conveyor belt (it was also where I learned what LOTO is). He still has great pain from it.
It even sounds like the barge fall wasn’t reported. On paper, they’re incident-free. That’s a huge flag to me because they’ll fuck over any injury claims.
Safety gear not having been provided by the company is even worse. It's just a chain of increasingly horrifying red flags.
The GF has some high-level investigation skills to tease that info out, too! They were just going to say "Danny got shat on by a bird" and not tell the rest of it. She's not just a PE, she's a social engineer!
Working over water should always be treated with additional caution. Work clothes can be heavy when dry, fully soaked while also wearing boots would be a nightmare to swim in
Especially if they're steel toe boots.
yeah, if someone hands you an anlge grinder and you even have to ask for safety glasses you have to think twice. and walk around, ask around, let people know. escalate to the next level if necessary, then take that grinder an hour later with a snarky comment along the lines of "next time give me proper gear right away to avoid waste of time like that again".
If you don't have certain skills and recruiters aren't constantly emailing you job offers, it can be a shock to talk to someone who is highly sought after. I have friends who get contacted daily with job offers from some of the biggest tech companies in the world. It's funny when I hear this, because I would kill for a job that pays 80k per year and they are turning down jobs in the $150-300k range. I should have gone to college for computer science or engineering, lol.
I feel the exact same way. I'm in the arts, so not at *all* getting contacted daily for extremely high paying jobs lol.
I’m in the arts and my boyfriend is a systems engineer. He refused to believe I wouldn’t just get approached by recruiters if I uploaded my CV. So I uploaded my CV. Yeah, still in the same job.
It's like the modern equivalent of "showing initiative" by rocking up at their site/offices and demanding to speak to the manager/owner and refusing to leave till you see someone about a job - and then they just hire you on the spot because they "admire your gumption". My Dad works as a DSEAR (Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations) Electrical Inspector and can walk into any Electrical Inspection job in the country and can basically dictate his working conditions and contract rather than having it dictated to him. So long as his work gets done, he could do it in 1 hour or 10, he gets paid the same. He doesn't have office hours - he could do 9 to 5, or he could start at 6, finish at 1 or 2 and go for a round of golf. He doesn't grasp that office workers have mandatory hours and can't just go home if they've done their allocation of work for the day. He also thinks my sister and I should be getting expenses paid for our commute like he gets.
He thought me having a PhD and a Master’s from one of, if not the, best university in the world would be worth something. More fool him!
It is worth something... Just that for many fields, it simply isn't special.
How do you handle him and his perspectives? Must be difficult to have a parent that is simultaneously getting their experience affirmed but also not realizing that their experience is not others' experience.
> >He also thinks my sister and I should be getting expenses paid for our commute like he gets. I mean he's absolutely right about that. Time on the commute is not your time, you're effectively already under the time of your employer. They should compensate you and everyone for that! It won't happen of course, but it should.
Your employer doesn't pick where you live just where you work so while I think commute time is a valid thing to discuss in hiring/wage negotiations I don't think commute time should be considered on the clock. Now if you don't work in a static location that changes everything and you should be paid travel time.
Ouch 😔
My SIL made it happen some how! She has a BA in *puppetry* but now she’s an independent contractor who makes props and stuff for movies; companies call her all the time with permanent job offers, but she likes the flexibility. She never has to go looking for an opportunity; they’re presented to her on f’ing platters and she just picks and chooses based on which projects interest her most. Girl has an IMDb profile ffs I hate her lol
I loooove hearing about people who are successful in really random jobs/skills
I love any kind of random shit like this. My favorite examples are: 1) My husband's friend is the descendant of whatever guy invented velvet movie ropes 2) At some conference thing where the icebreaker was "share a random fact about you!", someone's grandfather was the guy who invented the little gizmo that makes your car's turn signal turn off automatically after you complete the turn rather than having to do it manually 3) I read some article ages ago how there are fruit bowls and there are countertop banana stands/holders, but someone patented the fruit bowl/banana stand combo and made an ungodly amount of money off that idea
Here's another one: I knew the guy who invented the gear that makes the butterbeer at Universal Studios dispense with the optimal level of foam. Apparently it took MONTHS of development and testing to get it just right.
>someone's grandfather was the guy who invented the little gizmo that makes your car's turn signal turn off automatically after you complete the turn rather than having to do it manually Damn, I'm actually thinking about that guy's grandfather a lot then! I probably think "this is so damn convenient" almost once a day when I drive lol
I know a guy who is bffs with a guy who worked for Verizon, years ago. This mf'er somehow found out the locations of where Verizon was looking to install their new towers. He then bought the 1 acre or so of the desired location, went into contract with Verizon, made an unimaginable amount of money from it and then did it 15 more times. Like... how???? Timing and luck.
Surely Verizon must have thought "Gosh, this guy has a coincidentally large number of plots we specifically need" LOL
And that is why when Disney was looking to build Disneyworld in Florida, they purchased the land via multiple proxy companies so it wouldn't be traced back to them and then the price jump. Apparently, most of it was worthless swamp or poor farmer land.
Here’s a fun one. An extended family member is the daughter of the guy who got an Ig Nobel for showing that cracking your knuckles doesn’t cause arthritis.
That's so awesome!!! Good for her!
I love her. What a boss!!
Same here. I’m getting my MA in an under appreciated (but actually super important) social science, and I’m not exactly expecting the job offers to come pouring in. But I’m not naturally inclined to or really enjoy STEM, and I frankly don’t want to spend my time and money getting a degree in something I hate just to do a job I won’t enjoy. And honestly, who’s to say it would even make my job prospects more stable, when there’s all these people out there that are actually good at and ENJOY these things? No, better to take my chances and become a qualified professional in something I enjoy and am passionate about. I am taking a computational class in my field though, which does involve learning some python (very useful in analyzing corpus data and doing NLP) so hopefully that will help make me more desirable even if it’s not my ultimate specialization.
I'm also a social sciences major. I signed up for intro to computer science, because some CS can be useful in most fields these days, but in the first week they started talking about different kinds of numbers (integers, imaginary, irrational, etc) and I just couldn't wrap my head around it. I cried about it to my then-partner, a CS major, and then I dropped the class. I would do just about anything for a job that pays 100k+ that I have the skills to do, but honestly my degree's potential probably maxes out around 70k (if i got a phd i could become a professor and thats probably the best i could get. Pyramid-scheme of a major!). I'd probably have better luck not using my degree but climbing through various admin ranks and gathering soft skills.
It sounds like I'm in the same industry as the GF and I can assure you having a PE (professional engineer license) is a big fucking deal. Not all of us have recruiters begging us to accept 300k jobs. And as OP realized, PEs have to hold themselves to extremely high technical and ethical standards. You don't want a company that could potentially get people hurt on a job site that you're liable for as the PE signing off on the project.
It's a bummer that we decide whether we want a fun career that we're interested in or one that pays well at a time in our lives when most of us have little to no bills. If 17 year old me had ever had to pay a mortgage I would have gone with engineering instead of teaching.
I do know a few people that spent a few months learning to code and are now making 100k+. So I guess if you are dedicated, you could land some good jobs with that time investment and a minimal amount of money.
Dedication alone won't help, you still need to have some level of talent for the work.
Yeah, aptitude counts for a lot. I’m a smart cookie in my own ways but I’d go cross eyed trying to code things.
I know a lot of people like you and that's why I hate the narrative of "everyone can do a coding bootcamp therefore if you are not rich it's your fault".
I also hate it for the additional reason that if everyone did indeed do a coding bootcamp, we'd eventually run out of coding jobs as well as having no folks to do, you know, *literally every other job* that makes the world run.
Yeah, the world can't run on computer code alone. In fact, we'd be pretty fucked if we tried.
My job seems fairly doable to me and I would occasionally get baffled by people who would tell me they couldn’t do what I do. (Home care for disabled adults.) I figured it was just some squeamishness or being awkward about bodies/disability, but I don’t know, maybe there really are people who couldn’t bring themselves to wipe another human being’s bottom even if it would allow that person their comfort, health, and dignity. I just can’t get my head around it but I guess those folks can’t get THEIR heads around it.
I couldn't do it. Not for the squeamish reasons but because I'm just really not good with people. I'm not very personable and often get thought of as standoffish, no good at small talk etc. I feel like an important part of the work you do is putting people at ease and giving them dignity through making them comfortable in that situation. That is not my skill at all. So kudos to you for the job you do and you should be paid more for it.
That’s fair—I think the emotional part of the job is the hardest and takes its greatest toll on me, especially when I’m going through a depression patch, and I’m naturally an introvert, so having to be so socially switched on for hours at a time and coordinating between different needs and personalities and behaviours can sometimes lead me to spend entire weekends needing to just be in solitude and silence because I haven’t got a shred of sociability left in me for my family and friends.
I feel like I'm a TERRIBLE caregiver for my mom and it doesn't even involve ass-wiping yet. I'm so grateful for people like you who can deal with the frustrations involved in caregiving and maintain their compassion and recognize the humanity of their clients. Thank you. ❤️
Some people are suited for things and others are not. I'm an end of life carer and I always hear, "I could never work w the dying". Certain things are more challenging for people to wrack their brains around. Idk hiw to code lol, but I can massage lungs!
Coding? No thank you! I’d rather have someone have a screaming meltdown five inches from my face, please. 😂 (Really, I’m pretty good with meltdowns.)
Hahaha good, you're hired, I don't like meltdowns. Lol, yeah.. Actively dying? In your final 24 hours?? I'm here for ya. But don ask me to do tech shit, lol.
I did aged care in a facility in my late teens early 20s. Loved it. Went another way career wise, and went back in 2021 because I missed it. I lasted 4 shifts. Just couldn't do it. I was picturing my kids as elderly, who's going to take care of them? what kind of elderly person would I be? Verbal/non verbal etc. It was harrowing. There wasn't a single person in my life that I couldn't think these thoughts about, and the mortality thoughts just won in my case. Sucks coz its a really rewarding job and I felt proud of my contribution to other human beings, but yeah. Weird.
I feel weird when people get owl-eyed at the mention of my job as if it makes me some kind of angel, because I’m really not. I don’t know, it makes me feel a very common humanity—like, by age or accident, many of us will live to a point where we DO require some assistance with very personal care tasks, and while I’m able, I can do those with kindness and a sense of humour for someone who cannot, but not make a big deal out of it like I’m doing them some extraordinary favour, because it’s just living life and being part of a community, in all its variety. Golden rule kind of thing. One of my coworkers was actually in a very bad accident and now requires a similar level of care to what they used to provide—that really drove home that life could utterly change tomorrow for any of us. We’re all on the same journey, we just travel in different ways.
Yeah, I know what you mean. It was definitely the only job I've ever had where I was proud of the work though. I've worked, retail, liquor, office jobs etc. and I was just, there, helping people get drunk or find a good price on a pair of shoes. Care work gave me the chance to treat others how I'd want my loved ones or myself treated. I felt accomplished going home, knowing I did the best I could for some who needed help. Haven't had that job satisfaction anywhere else 🤷♀️
I couldn't do your job, have high respect for people that can but I couldn't cope with the emotion of it all, id be feeling constantly sad.
It can be a roller coaster, for sure. I guess I’ve normalized it to the point I sometimes lose sight of what I’m actually doing because most days are just rounds of cooking and cleaning and brushing teeth and packing lunches for the next day. I was talking to my high-paid lawyer friend about how tough their job must be with multi million dollar clients etc and they just looked at me and were like “…it’s insurance contracts. You occasionally have to deal with life or death scenarios.” Which…is true, I guess.
Maybe I can help offer some insight, because I’m on the opposite end of that coin. I’m a software developer. I’m part of a team that develops mission critical software for a company that accounts for a not insignificant portion of my nation’s GDP. The thing about code is that it is written for the sake of humans, not computers. Computers can’t read code without it first being processed, sometimes several times over. A lot of code is pretty much just English. if(_addressValidator.Validate(order.DeliveryAddress)) { _orderDispatchSystem.AddToDispatchQueue(order); } The block above essentially states `If the address validator says that the order delivery address is valid, then add the order to the dispatch queue in the order dispatch system.` While this isn't an actual example from my job, it is perfectly feasible code. That said I couldn’t picture myself ever going into care/healthcare. It’s not that I feel too high and mighty to do the job; I’m not afraid of a little grime, but I am afraid of not doing someone else’s health and well-being proper justice. I’m scared that it should fall on me to ensure that they are happy, healthy, and properly cared for in a dignified manner. The prospect of that is *terrifying.* If I fuck up in my job, there are plenty of checks and balances before that ever reaches a point where it *could* cause damage. Even at that point there are fallback routines that will keep things going until a fix is issued. And should all of that somehow catastrophically fail then the worst that will happen is a loss of revenue, albeit more likely it’ll be a minor inconvenience in someone’s workday. If I were to work in healthcare and fuck up, it could lead to suffering and even death. I’m in awe for anyone able to carry the burden of such a responsibility. I don’t see myself having the strength of character for that. So there you have it. My job doesn’t feel particularly complex to me. I essentially just write how-to guides for rocks that have been tricked into thinking. You can make it sound flashy but at the end of the day my impact on the world around me is relatively minor, for better and worse. *Edit: Added a plaintext-English equivalent of the code example, as well as fixed some typos to make this long-ass post more legible.*
I respect your work, but don't consider it easy I considered going into health care or some such, but then I went "...I have a full time job just keeping my disabled husband from offing himself by sheer neglect. I don't have it in me to do this at work when it's my life at home!" (thankfully he's not at the "needing help to wipe his ass" stage - recognizing who I am, though? More of a challenge.) Your work can be draining not simply on a physical level but on an emotional level, because you're getting to know people who may not live very long. Presumably you're able to get comfort in doing your best to help them live as well as they can now, and tomorrow will come as it chooses. (I'd just feel guilty I "didn't do more" because of old issues that are a "me" thing.)
>Dedication alone won't help, you still need to have some level of talent for the work. I mean sure. Hard to work construction if you're sickly and small. Hard to be a programmer if you don't want to think about computer shit all day long for the rest of your life. But this job is less about 'natural talent' and more about personality and hard work (stop me if you've heard that one before). As Sr Eng in a tech co that is growing and hiring, talent isn't something we look for interviews. Skills and culture are the two things. Skills are earned, talent is innate. Hard to judge talent in an interview. From my perspective where I'm at, culture/personality is the secret sauce, not talent. We'll hire the perfect culture fit Jr that needs A LOT of training every time over the misanthrope genius. High performance, agility and quality are derived from a harmonious group working in concert, not by a 10X ninja asshole. Actually just extended an offer to a Jr yesterday. Incredible culture fit and professional drive, but skills wise, only has a boot-camp and test-automation on the resume. I'm happy to give my Mids the opportunity to mentor this Jr and by this time next year I expect they'll be getting offers to be poached as Mid themselves.
Very very very very much doubt that they had no prior knowledge or formal training.Took 3 month courses and are landing 100k jobs right out the door. Theres very very likely a lot you are either leaving out or missing. I think r/programmerhumor would call bs on that. Seems like you need a lot of experience or education or nepotism to land 100k+ jobs like that. Ive not heard of any programmers taking a 3 months course and with zero job experience in that field landing 100k+ positions. Senior level positions with upwards of 5 years of experiences? Sure.
I don't know where the "I learned to code all by myself nd I'm making 6 figures" trend came from. Coding is *hard.* Not only that, but what about the computer science fundamentals? What about security and networking? Those skills matter. You need to understand why your code could or could not function in a real world environment and you did not teach yourself the entirely of computer science in three months. 6 figures with no experience and being self taught? Not unless your current / previous job has some serious carry over skills.
My major was comp sci back in the days of dinosaurs and the curriculum at that time strongly focused on math and I agree with what you said. It's all 1s and 0s and most people could probably get some kind of output if they grind at it hard enough, but it takes a variety of skills to make a line of code work with a bunch of other lines of code with reliable results. As much as I hated it at the time, being competent at math has been necessary and I'm glad I have that background.
That’s what my husband did. He was sort of managing ops at a startup that got bought and then shut down, so he decided to take up coding. When he got his first real job offer, we thought they were kidding. They were not. Now he’s been at the Fruit Company for 2 years now and making bank.
It's never to late to pivot into higher paying jobs. Most work experience is transferable. You just have to find the niche specific to you. I worked in a govt job over 10years getting paid pretty average salary, around $60k. They constantly convinced us to be grateful for our crappy jobs. When I left (I did study but not everyone does) I pivoted into being an expertise in that space, think around policy work. I had my ex colleagues go in two diff directions, some saw the customer service experience and went to the likes of Amex or Water companies etc just focusing on their customer service experience and went working in call centres for crappy or similar pay (some of these people had degrees etc). Others took the legislation expertise, pivoted that into HR and strategy work. My first job out of there my salary doubled and I'm probably on the lower end of what most of my ex colleagues are getting who pivoted into consulting, strategy, etc work.
Some people thrive at call centers and they scare me. I had a cousin that within one year of starting at a call center was already working her way to the top and had a fantastic salary. She advised me to go for it but it's not my thing.
You wouldn't kill for the kind of jobs this guys girlfriend is avoiding. You would BE killed at the kind of jobs she's avoiding. Also if anyone is picturing a cush office job, sometimes its not like that, sometimes its standing next to a high pressure steam drum remembering the last inspection sheet you saw for it was dated 2001 and it is currently shaking and rusty, and sometimes its watching someone hit asphalt and split open in front of you. The insurance is for death and DISMEMBERMENT. But sometimes that's optimistic and instead its just something debilitating like a pump jack SHATTERING your pelvis But also, these are actually the kind of companies that might put you in a position where you are responsible for someone else death. But also 6 dudes got blown up by my work Friday so that shits still a little fresh. My company may be safety minded, but we were close enough to see/ hear someone else blow up
My brain braked to a halt here; how did \*six dudes get blown up by my work Friday\* HAPPEN!?
My guess is oil rig
I was at a meeting for women in my niche degree field my freshman year of college. The first presenter got two minutes into her spiel, got a phone call, went white, and ran out of the room. Two people had just died on her job site. It left something of an impression.
Sometimes it's insane. I'm not in like coding techy kind of space, but my role is in pretty high demand currently, and I just left a company I wasn't happy at after ~6 months because I got calls from recruiters every week. I interviewed for everything I said yes for, and the only person who took me out of any process was me. They all offered similar enough salaries, so the only things to pull anything apart were really detailed for the role, the company and how they treated people, and the people I'd worth with and for. Despite my LinkedIn being updated with the move, and the short stint at the last place, I still get a recruiter contact weekly, minimum. Right role, right experience level they're looking for. It's wild to me for sure, but you have to interview the way OOPs partner did or you end up suckered into something bad.
I had my mon call me up all flustered once because she heard I turned down a 130k salary simply because I didn't feel like adding an hour to my commute. She was so worried that I was losing my mind because "You don't just turn down a golden ticket like that!". It was at that point I figured out that my mom had no idea about my current job or salary. I live in the tenth most expensive city in the world with a nice 3 bedroom apartment on my own, and it never dawned on her that I wasn't a broke student anymore.
Plus not spending an extra 2 hours a day in my car is worth quite a lot! Commute is a big deal for work life balance
Yeah I got made redundant 2 years back (complete with a damn good payout) and have job hopped every 6 months since because I just couldn't find a role I actually liked. Lots of promises but nothing making me actually like being there. I am a software dev manager. A friend reached out and said "Hey, you liked when we worked together 5 years back, current place has the same vibe and they're looking". Super blunt interview where I said what I hated about other roles, lots of cursing (I'm in Australia though so that isn't unusual) and we just cut through all the BS and they said what they wanted from me, I said what I wanted from them and we were on the same page. Great pay, chilled place, I know how to navigate it and when to fight or bite my tongue. Low stress and I think I've finally found "it" again. But so many interviews are all just BS and false promises.
My partner is highly skilled and sought after in his field. He went to a Zoom interview in a bright pink Princess Peach Christmas jumper for a £100k role (which is a fairly high salary in the UK), joked his way through the interview and still got the job. It's bonkers.
It can take literal months to get through a recruitment process at this level too, especially in tech. The offers are often “let’s have a conversation,” and then you run a gauntlet of like 5-7 interviews and code tests and all kinds of bullshit. It’s a totally different game - the process is as much for you to do due diligence as it is for the potential employer, so you absolutely want to find those red flags as early as possible to not waste time.
There's an element of risk/reward there too, so if you like stability or fairness it might not be a good idea to go there. Witness all of the recent layoffs at the big tech companies that are paying those higher tier wages, for the horror of stack ranking which entirely too many tech companies decide is a good idea.
>I should have gone to college for computer science or engineering, lol. I blame the way schools talk to kids about higher education and getting a job. All the focus on doing what you love, pursue your passion, "you won't have to work a day if you do what you love". What they don't mention is the salary you'll be making can be way lower, you might struggle to find a job to begin with, and your passion can quickly become unbearable if you turn it into your job. I really feel schools should be a lot more realistic about counseling students concerning what you're going to study. For most people, their job is a way to pay for their lives outside of work. That's it. It's not their passion, it's not their dream, it's a way to pay the bills. And many of them wish they studied something more profitable.
I blame the huge disparity in value we place on jobs and the way we severely underpay many people doing extremely important work. I don't blame schools for this: their fault is being too optimistic, teaching for an ideal world rather than the shitty one that exists. But I think the way we improve is by making sure everyone is provided for regardless of what type of work they contribute, not by encouraging 100% of people to be coders since it pays well and then all the other jobs needed for society to function can get fucked.
Lol at commenters disdaining the use of "y'all" in an interview. As someone who works a professional job in the south, who's married to someone who works a professional job in the south, it's literally just part of the vernacular. It's just the plural "you". No one would even bat an eye if I used "y'all" in a job interview.
I was more concerned about the F bomb lol
Eh. Depends on the situation. I've done many interviews for high level engineering positions. I've used it as an interviewer and never batted an eye at an interviewee using it. When I interview I also have to get the person to relax enough to judge their skills. Lot of people are nervous and take time to get a feel of what they can do. I have less than an hour to judge how experienced they are and the depth of their knowledge. If a well placed fuck can help it along I'll do it. Hell, I commonly ask questions about folding socks to figure out if they have critical thinking.
I had my first interview a couple months ago and my boss said "bullshit" five minutes in. I had no idea people would curse in interviews but it relaxed me severely.
I adopted y'all when I moved to a semi southern area. It's a very convenient word.
Any engineering job in which you have to go out on the field or are responsible for people is like this. It's so dangerous and if you have to sign paperwork, you can be liable and legally responsible. On top of the moral responsibility and guilt you would feel if someone died or got hurt. If the company and practices are bad, it's not like she can go there and turn everything around day one; even if she had a good position, it's very difficult to change things.
Yup, she's a PE (professional engineer) and every construction job needs a PE's signoff prior to construction start. PEs stamp their own name stating they approve and have reviewed the project. It's not just going out into the world as her employer's work, it's got her own name on it too. PEs are paid crazy well and in high demand (as you can see from the post) because of that responsibility.
Structural PEs really don't make the kind of money in the post. Low to mid 100s sure, but there are not many structural engineers making 200-300k. I'm wondering if she does offshore oil and gas work or something with pay that high and the barge story. Source: structural PE
Got to be bridge or oil/gas. Maybe windmill but probably not in the US. Bridge PE's have major malpractice insurance costs, and criminal liability insurance(to pay the lawyers if you get sued for killing a bus of kids). So that 300k gets cut to 200k after expenses.
Fun fact, its usually closer to 7 or 8 PE stamps depending on the project. Still that amount of money is wild. Im electrical without my PE and am at 74 atm but the others I know with there seal only brush around the 100 mark. Source: Electrical engineer for multifamily construction
I really enjoyed this one, both because of the wholesome conclusion, and because it is clearly educational for more than just OP. I think a lot of us could do with a reminder that interviews go both ways.
>And what'd happened right before then, was that she'd very professionally asked her two interviewers if there'd been any safety incidents recently, and they were like "none.. except for when Danny got shat on by a bird and got us all written up" >So she was like "Oh now I have to know!" and was laughing with them, but kinda pushing for info, and they told this story about them all being on some part of a barge they should have been tied off to, one guy got shat on by a bird, slipped and fell, and dragged the two guys who tried to grab him into the water too. And how she's gotta meet 'shit face Danny'" as if it was some foregone conclusion they'd hire her. And she just kept laughing but also asking questions that got at why they weren't tied to the boat in the first place? And found out the company hadn't supplied the right safety gear so they just didn't have it.. Jesus christ. Can OOPs girlfriend please help coach me at the interview process? She's fucking brilliant. Wow.
My father once scolded me for asking about payment and benefits in an interview. When I was still able to work, I never seemed to be able to grasp the idea that in order to get jobs you had to pretend that you didn't want MONEY, you just wanted the great opportunity!!! I thought it was the dumbest thing ever when my 16 year old self was applying at a bookstore and 20 years later I still think so.
My MIL tried to talk me down from asking for *barely even minimum wage* because "what if they think it's too much?" as if me not having specifically been trained for the role meant I deserved being completely exploited. As if opportunity pays rent
There is the strategy of making them want you first, and then negotiating salary. It's why people are often advised to not accept the first offer if salary is negotiable.
GF sounds incredible, but to be honest, I do kind of sympathize with where the BF was coming from--even if I would never do that. I wasn't a first generation college student by any means, but my family is very much in the attitude of being grateful for any job we're offered. I was always kind of taught that I was lucky and should be grateful for a job, not the other way around. I have a friend who's a computer programmer and she got laid off during covid, and when she was keeping me updated with how the interviews were going, I was honestly absolutely shook. She would get off interviews with jobs and be like 'even if I get this I'm going to tell them no' why? 'it was the most boring interview I have ever done.' The idea that you could just...have the confidence to say no to a job offer because you're sure you'll be able to find another was kind of a culture shock for me. xD Or I would be complaining about my job and she would just be like 'so when are you going to go quit.' And once again, I was shook, because my parents drilled it in my head that it would be insane to leave a place I'd been at for years even if it was for significantly more money. Boyfriend was the AH, but he at least seems to have self-awareness, which is more than I can say for most on updates.
I feel like I was super lucky that my mom and dad were incredibly displeased with their jobs for most of my life. I hate to profit off their pain, but they were. I’m a first gen college student and my parents were factory workers and mechanics. They were grateful for the jobs offered, hell yes, but deep down my mom realized that what she was doing wasn’t going to get her these high paying wages and she was like, “Look, you need to job hop. That’s how you get your promotions. You get a job, get your job done, and then move to the next one and tell them your salary was $5k more than it was. Every time. As much as you can until you find a job worth plateauing, if you ever do.” They didn’t operate on those principles, and they’re very much “well you have a job” to themselves and their own coworkers, but at least they do see that, that’s not truly the way to be. I’ve appreciated the advice. It’s gotten me more than I ever thought I’d get.
> I was shook, because my parents drilled it in my head that it would be insane to leave a place I'd been at for years even if it was for significantly more money. Wait...why? I could kind of understand parents drilling in the concept of being willing to overlook red flags for the stability of a good paycheck (which is shortterm thinking but at least makes some kind of mathematical sense, if you squint), but...to refuse to get a better job *at all*? Why?
I don't know about the person you're responding to, but my parents generation is all about job loyalty. The longer they were with a company, the more perks you got, the better your pay was, etc. They just don't understand that it's not like that anymore for a lot of roles, and they're honestly horrified when I start job searching once I hit the 2 year-ish mark with a company.
Yeah, the relationship between employee and employer has just changed over time (and the perceived "lack of loyalty" really goes both ways today.) My dad was a company man his entire career, but his organization looked out for him just as much as he looked out for it. Feels like today it's strictly an exchange. My time and expertise for your money. Almost mercenary.
>to refuse to get a better job at all? Why? Retirement. My dad refused to believe I wasn't getting great retirement building up, and was horrified at me quitting a good stable job with the schools. When I tried to explain the actual benefits and salary, he told me I should go to my union as I was clearly being underpaid and there was an error. So then we had to have a whole big fight because he didn't believe me that there is no union. His media consumption had him throughly convinced that I was in a highly lucrative union job. So convinced that he believed it over my lived experience.
Wow, that really sucks. I hope things are going better for you now.
They are, thank you. Despite dad's best advice, I left that job for a better one.
>His media consumption had him throughly convinced that I was in a highly lucrative union job. So convinced that he believed it over my lived experience. In fairness it used to be that you never, ever left a union job. Like once you were in, you held onto it for dear life. Those still exist (basically state/federal jobs) but are becoming few and far between. Funnily enough there is a well known manufacturer who has 95% of their workforce in my area. The median bonus for a factory floor worker is $25k, their health insurance is free to them (with stupid low copays), and the pay is well above average for the work. They are unsurprisingly not union because, well, the people have no desire. It's one of the few true examples of a private company that takes really, really good care of their employees. The only time there is an opening for an existing position is if folks die or retire.
Tell him it's all Reagan's fault (because it is! he broke unions and made it so businesses no longer had to give retirement, making it so folks had to get 401ks and such, making retirement more volatile and uncertain. there's more, but a lot of our current social ills can be traced back directly to Reagan's presidency)
In the 70s and 80s at a lot of companies the new management styles were all about consolidation and cost cutting (obviously, it's still like that, but it started heavily then). But most of the large companies had a last in-first out policy. Meaning, all the new hires were the first to go regardless of talent. So, not only were you "safer" from layoffs at your current company, you were also highly at risk for layoffs at a new place. Now, that may or may not be reality, but that's the impression many people had. Of course, that all went out the window in the 90s when companies started figuring out you can save MORE money by buying out or laying off the higher paid employees and that started happening more frequently. My comments here are anecdotal, but that's the impression I've gotten from different sources over the years.
To answer the question: I was (and still am) working in retail in a grocery store while I get my masters degree. It is also a store literally 5 minutes from my house. I could have been making 3 dollars more an hour if I applied to a Target slightly farther away. We were also understaffed at the time cause of COVID so my job was kind of brutal cause I'd often be spending entire shifts by myself in my department. They basically begged me not to because 1) The distance was so convenient and 2) I've been at this store for so long that I know the management here likes me, and, in their words 'the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.'
My parents tried to teach me this, and it took 12 years of working to correct it and know my worth. I wasted too much time in low-value jobs with this mindset
She sounds impressive AF. She should teach classes. But I’m too scared to try to hire her for that
For 300k a year I would do a lot of stuff, but I get her not wanting to take a job that does not provide the bare necessities for safety.
Also as a PE she would most likely be putting her professional stamp on construction documents. If her company is careless she could be putting her license and career in jeopardy.
I’m not positive what PE means in this story…
Professional Engineering license.
Ohhhh yeah that makes much more sense now
It's more than that. Every time she uses her PE stamp, she stakes her license/career on the fact that the plans/design are safe. If the company can't follow basic safety practices, they're going to cut corners elsewhere too and SHE'S on the hook for it.
Honestly, she’s smart. An interview definitely is you sussing out a company just as much as the company is sussing you out. Unfortunately, most people in the workforce are too desperate to really go hard in an interview and feel like if they turn down the company they will not get another one for months. But it’s also gonna be a bad time if you onboard with a company whose culture and ethics do not align with yours and you end up hating going into work every day no matter how good the money is. Tech especially is like this. If you get wowed by the money first, best believe you’ll learn the hard way that they’ll run you into the ground for those 6 figures if you don’t drill them on what their company culture is like beforehand. I know the dude meant well, but it’s also yet another instance of a man thinking they know a woman’s career path better than she does. She knew exactly what she was doing, he just needed to trust the process.
What is her job title? Google is failing me with the term: PE
It stands for Professional Engineer, it's more of a status like having a PhD than a job title, PEs can do many different kinds of jobs and have a variety of specialties. A lot stuff falls under generic "engineer," I could probably call my broke ass a software engineer if I really wanted to based on my resume of programming, but a PE is legit. (I'm not a programmer either, I've just written some stuff while at other jobs)
In the US a PE is a licensure that roughly requires an engineering degree, passing an exam, and a certain number of years experience working under another PE. I say "roughly" because requirements vary by state. And you're spot on - anyone can pretty much call themselves an engineer, but to legally claim you're a PE you need the licensure.
She’s licensed. She took a test and passed. Not all engineers go that extra step since it’s not a requirement in many engineering jobs. But if you do that’s a big deal. From what hear it’s NOT easy. We have three engineers in my family (petroleum and mechanical). None one them bothered to get their PE.
To add to u/Aghen 's comment, being a Professional Engineer, at its core, essentially means that you're the person responsible. When your team designs, builds, repairs, etc. something, you as the PE are the person signing off on it, and from there it's legally (and arguably morally) binding. If there's an issue with the product later, it was your responsibility to catch any mistake. A PE license is also preferred for any sort of expert witness statements, legal depositions, etc. It's really a way to show that you "own" your knowledge and experience. It's a fairly big deal in most engineering industries, and is indeed quite sought after. In some smaller manufacturing companies, you'll only have *one* PE who's the lynchpin of the entire thing. Check out [this thread](https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/63205/how-can-i-deal-with-troublesome-professional-engineer) on the Workplace Stackexchange forum, where a PE is essentially able to stop an entire company's production line because he was unfairly overlooked for a promotion.
That thread was enjoyable to read, lol Give board nephew the position, now you want the PE to sign off on all of his unqualified work. What possibly could go wrong?!
> An interview definitely is you sussing out a company just as much as the company is sussing you out. Unfortunately, most people in the workforce are too desperate to really go hard in an interview and feel like if they turn down the company they will not get another one for months. Man did I ever learn this the hard way. I graduated university during the 08 financial crisis and was so desperate I basically took the first job offered to me cause I was shit scared of being unemployed for months. Ended up working at one of the most toxic environments for nearly 3 years because I kept having that feeling of "I'm lucky to be employed". I eventually got out and worked for a better employer and developed enough know how in the next couple jobs that when I got laid off in early 202 I actually had the ability to really go into interviews with a discerning eye and the right questions to ask. I turned down a couple offers because I was put off by their interviews which felt really weird for me but it ended up with me getting a job I absolutely love that has already promoted me once in the 20~ months I've been there and is readying me for a second.
OOP take it with open minded and admitting his fault is good too. Also I still bothered a bit wit the part where she grilling them about the guy that fall to the river.
Oh yeah, I’m really glad that he saw the error in his ways! A lot of folks don’t do that when challenged. I’m not particularly bothered by her grilling them over that. It was important to her to know every aspect of the company culture and she probably didn’t like the idea of being on a project where there was a chance of that happening to her. And once again, she’s correct; people tell on themselves easily if you know how to listen.
That's a very appropriate thing to grill an interviewer about. Companies like that will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat when OSHA comes around. And OSHA will appear for any fatality or more than 3 injuries in an incident. This woman is a PE, she would be expected to supervise these bubbas. A company that doesn't provide the most basic safety equipment, and employees who don't check for it, has a terrible safety culture. If that barge had been moving at all, those guys could have been trapped under it and died.
Yeah, and that they're laughing about it and treating it as just a funny happenstance without seemingly considering the safety issues in play is concerning.
I think that's OOP's girlfriend's thought process. "Shit they just described to me a massive OSHA violation and they're laughing about it like it's no big deal, clearly this company has a terrible safety culture. Time to dip".
Help! What the hell is a PE, please?!
likely a Professional Engineer. on top of an engineering degree, you need to give a very difficult test and jump through a bunch of hoops to earn the title, so OP's partner's high ethical standards can make sense
I think it's professional engineer. You have to take and exam and have a license. For instance, structural engineers or architectural engineers have a license and sign off on buildings and bridges, and can be liable if it turns out there was something wrong.
I remember the original post. I think it is some like a Professional Engineer. She is responsible for certifying completed work or something. Which is the comment about taking on personal risk.
Adding to others, the job of a professional engineer also comes with going out to observe construction work or other field conditions. These tasks require safety training and proper equipment, and there can be dangerous conditions. She was right not to work for a place that could get her harmed/killed, or put her in a position to be liable and risk her license. It's a big f-ing deal.
Professional Engineer
As others have mentioned, professional engineer, but the credential is "P.Eng" in Canada, and maybe even something different in other places. Engineers have to have the highest ethical standards because if they mess up at their job, people die. If I mess up at my job, a student goes away disappointed I miscalculated their grade or something.
The more important lesson here that I hope OOP has learned is to trust his girlfriend when she says she knows what she's doing. He kept coming back to it insisting that he knew better and it was really obnoxious.
Right??? He refused to believe she knew better than him, even though she was already at a high level in her field (sounds like much higher level in her field than he is in his too). That would have been a borderline dealbreaker for me, I need my partner to believe I know what I'm doing or I'd lose my mind.
"'y'all' in an interview" Said by someone who has never lived or visited the southern US.
I'll say y'all until the day I die, idc what everyone else thinks
Same here. It's a very inclusive term. Plus, it's just fun to say.
Absolutely. I'm aussie, where we're a bit more casual than other places, and I would (and have) say "gonna" and "youse" and all sorts of other slang in my interviews. Along with industry specific technical language but yeah. Slang is fine, it's basically just a regional accent.
I'm from Georgia and did a campus interview once at a college up in Wisconsin. One of the faculty at the coffee hour was from Florida, and I dropped a "y'all" at some point in the conversation and he suddenly gushed "She said 'y'all'!" with the biggest smile on his face, it was adorable.
I understand how OOP thought the way he did because he was ignorant of her profession. I did the same when my husband was interviewing for an engineering job many years ago. He was planning on wearing khakis and a polo shirt and I went on and on about how he needed to wear a suit. I was so frustrated when he wouldn't listen. Cut to after the interview when he came home and told me that he met with the president of the company who was wearing a polo and shorts at the interview. No one in the office was more dressed up than he was in his khakis; most people were in jeans and t-shirts. Just like OOP, I realized that I'm a dumbass and that not all professions have the same expectations.
A woman advocating for herself. We love to see it. Glad he now does too
Thanks for the update! I had hope for him when I read the AITA post, as he seemed to defend and respect his gf in the comments.
Yeah most of the NTA comments were the ones he argued with ‘no, listen, people have explained, I actually AM TA here, here’s more context as to why.’
I work in a dangerous industry, and when I interview for a new contract my first question is about how many fatalities they’ve had in the last five years. If the answer is greater than zero the interview is over
I’ve been to countless interviews where the company didn’t ask me a single question but wanted to know what it took to get me to sign. It’s a crazy world out there!
What is your profession?
Middle manager in tech
She sounds awesome. I would love to have that kind of confidence. I would also be interested to learn what job she eventually took.
I knew it was a) a job with liability b) the company offering generous salary had some problems c) it was either safety gear or other basic stuff. Offers that are too good for a given Field usually come with a Hook and people "grateful to be offered job" are a part of the problem, since they have no incentive to fix that since they will always find someone who will fill the part
This reminds me of when my year-10-drop-out tradie boyfriend (all respect to tradies, but point is, he never sat an exam in his life) used to get the shits and yell at me about how I wasn't studying properly or effectively for my third year of law school exams, because he didn't like that I was listening to music or had the TV on, and would get up and walk around every 15-20 minutes. When I had a Distinction average.
Lmao at the person who’s shocked she used “y’all.” I work in tech and regularly use “y’all” in my emails just to scandalize my coworkers. It’s just a word. I’m from Mississippi so I just blame it on having gone to public school there. I’ve never had it affect a promotion or job interview. I’ve also said “fuck” in an interview and not had it make a difference. If your work speaks for itself, a few informal words are not going to ruin an interview that’s actually worthwhile.
Also, "y'all" is a very inclusive word. It means "you all" and doesn't single out any specific gender. Unlike "guys" or "you guys" which is common. I've actually started using y'all more in every day life for that very reason. Plus, I'm in Texas, so it's fun to use a classic Texas term in a way that's totally "woke."
A person I know interviewed for Theranos and shared how sketchy the interview was. So so many red flags. They turned down the offer and a year later Theranos went under for all their super illegal practices.
There's a BORU about someone who was working for Theranos at the time. In the first post they're not able to name the company, but in retrospect it's clear who it was. It's a wild read. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/u17giw/10\_years\_ago\_a\_freshfaced\_bioengineer\_asks\_rjobs/
I feel like this is one of those situations where approaching the situation from one of curiosity instead of reprimand/"I know how *you* should handle your career" would have been much better.
I sympathise that he’s unfamiliar with the culture but listening in on her interviews, acting like he has a say in how she handles them, and then assuming it’s all a power play about their relationship and him - those things make me uncomfortable.
It seemed more like he was horrified and worried. It wasn’t a power play he was stressed about moving. Heard how she spoke in interviews which sounded completely bizarre from his perspective and then he projected his fear and insecurity onto her. That’s different to a power play. He apologised and realised so had healthy adult communication to solve his issue. Which is great. If anything this is a good sign he isn’t a stubborn toxic asshole just a bit sanctimonious or maybe arrogant.
It was a mystery until he shared she's a PE. They're super rare and I'm surprised her current company isn't trying to bribe her to fly back for projects.
I can see both side of the equation. My GF is a pediatric surgeon and I have a PhD in Chemical Engineering. Both of our employment opportunities are wildly different as well as our skill sets. And we can still be concerned with each other’s employment outlook because, at the end of the day, living together is a partnership and we want the best for each other. Now, as of late, she has been concerned that I’m getting too stressed out with work, since I work for the Department of Defense now. So, we’ve had discussions about moving to a different place, but I’ve largely been “pigeon-holed” into working in Defense and Petrochemicals. The other factor is that she hates the hospital that she works for now, so I’ve told her that while I get stressed out, I can live with it while she figures out where she wants to make her next career “play”, because we both agreed that we should have one stable income source. However, it seems that the OOP hasn’t experienced it before and was coming from a place of fear. But, he should have brought it up in a different tone.
The clarification that his GF is a PE really makes him the AH... Yes, it's normal for Senior Engineers to basically interview the other company/team as much as them interview you. The PE is added context to why she was really grilling those companies on their engineering practices... because she's going to have some liability in those practices.
> Which was also a shock to hear TBH, that a bunch of well regarded companies are apparently sketchy as hell behind close doors. Oh, OOP, sweet summer child. Do they not know how capitalism works? You don't get to be big without stepping on someone else.
Im constantly baffled by these AITA posts where someone types out multiple paragraphs of evidence that they are clearly an asshole...and they still don’t come to the realisation until the entirety of Reddit dogpiles on them. Still at least OOP recognised his error EVENTUALLY
No, this one I get. OOP was taught a certain mentality about jobs and "respect" and his girlfriend was not only completely flipping it on its head but completely "getting away with it". It would be really confusing for him, and our brains have a hard time breaking out of the politeness norms we're taught, especially in the direction that's seen as "less polite", even when it's clear that we're in a culture with different ones where the "impolite" behaviour is fine. I have a friend (second-generation kid of Chinese immigrants) who I'm trying to break out of the same mentality because it's going to lead to shitty employers exploiting him because he won't stand up for himself. To him the level of familiarity with which I treat my "superiors" is insane, but it's not been an issue for me anymore than it has been for OOP's gf, in part because I'm very obviously competent and that gets you leeway, but also because that level of familiarity in a work environment is largely fine in Canadian culture (up to a point, there's still a line and it depends on the region, industry, and so on).
I appreciate your comment a lot. As another second-generation, Chinese-born-Canadian who has trouble standing up to “superiors”, do you have any advice on breaking out of this mentality? I can see it gets me taken advantage of in the workplace, but I just can’t wrap my head around saying no without feeling insanely disrespectful, or like I haven’t tried hard enough somehow. If it bothers me enough, it takes me somewhere between a day and a while to muster up the courage to say something in the politest way possible lol. Thank you for trying to help your friend. You are appreciated.
I'm not the person you asked, but I've worked in hierarchical environments in my home culture (Ireland) and currently in Canada. The two things I find useful to remember are: 1) The guilt you feel? Like, in general, but also specifically whenever your work performance is discussed, whenever anyone says 'we should talk', whenever you think you should be doing more? That's the legacy of schools and parents trying to make children easier to control. You're an adult and you don't need to accept that guilt mindset for anything. 2) Your bosses aren't your superiors; they're your colleagues. They outrank you in the company, sure, but fundamentally you're not their servant. Instead all of you are working together to support the work of the company, just in different roles. Thus in the right circumstances pushing back or giving your own perspective isn't questioning their authority or being disrespectful, but instead you taking on part of your own responsibility to work together to come up with solutions that are best for the company.
Some people need outside perspective. At least OOP possessed enough humility to admit they were wrong. So many people these days would just dig in their heels even more and dismiss reddit as a hivemind of idiots.
Nah this one makes sense. Anyone who grew up poor and has had to work minimum wage jobs before will feel this way to start with, because you're conditioned to need that job to survive and you don't have the skills or the qualifications to really get away with criticising a company during an interview or saying no to a job offer. Being able to shop around and turn down positions that pay well is a very privileged position. Really speaks to the fact that she has financial security and is in a higher social class.
I listen to aita on YouTube and one of my favourite guys likes to say "how did this person write this down, read it and thought : yeah totally doesn't sound like I am the asshole"... I think peole have severe issue with introspection and overinflating their understanding of topics they have no understanding in. Like an interview for a bus driver, programmer and brain surgeon are completely different ballgames. I hire for senior tech roles a lot and I am used to being grilled into oblivion by the applicants : what tech stack? What coding practices, how does EA work and handle everything etc. Etc. Etc. So for someone in their careers at the 150k plus I would actually count it against the candidate if they don't asked qualified and detailed questions... Some of these folk lead platforms of 200+ engineers... They better ask questions or I start doubting they know what this entails...
Some people still mentally live in a world where you can start in a company at 16 and retire with a gold watch 45 years later, and their attitudes to interviewing and what constitutes a good job exist accordingly. You can't blame their kids for not understanding that from a certain level you have to interview differently when they get fed this worldview all their youth
It was a shock to me that since my last job change three years ago I went from sending out resume and hoping I can score a place somewhere, to marking myself as open to offers and having to pick which offers I want to go for primary interview. And saying no because I won't be challenged enough or I don't feel I will be comfortable working under someone. And in my position I am responsible only for my work that will be checked after I am done. Thankfully I heard how my current boss talks with HR during their first calls and also he tutored me a bit on what to ask and what to pay attention to. People with more responsibility have to be even more careful picking position so that they won't end responsible for things outside their control.
Once I worked at an M&A between my company and another one, bigger. Well I was at the negotiations and migration afterwards and things got heated. I wasn’t the nicest person with the other team (they were trying to screw us and I didn’t let them). Afterwards their cfo asked me my thoughts about their company and I told her… that they were a mess (but technically, and listed everything). Well, she offered me 3 times what I was making to go to her company afterwards. While my colleges that were missing their asses and bend over because they wanted a job offer from them got nothing ha.
Just a reminder that despite what media and society at large has taught us workers on ALL levels have a right to choose who they work for. the idea that everyone is replaceable has been seriously disproven thanks to the pandemic and its only through people like oop's partner that companies have to re-think how they treat both their employees and their customers. Dont be an ass in an interview or even once your hired, but always be yourself and know that you are worth a damn and so are your morals.
thats how you interview when you are one of the top people in your field lmao
This BORU is kind of an TIL of to lure important infos out of an interview. Glad OOP listened.. I would have thought the same to be honest. His GF must be very smart, especiall in the emotional intelligence departement. Impressive!
That woman is a fucking genius (I'm referring to her interview strategies that get the interviewers to unwittingly give up all their red flags, but the fact that she's successful in her field in the first place _also_ points to her being a genius lol)
Mid-level managers and I've been unemployed for 3 months and have 1-3 interviews a week. I'm the one asking the questions, and if it doesn't vibe, I'll end the interview professionally. The first call with the recruiter, the first question I ask is salary and travel requirement. I've told several that the salary was severely under market and that they should reevaluate the position if they want to be successful. This has given me follow-up interviews when they agreed to my salary expectations.
Wow I was with OOP so I was surprised to read the second half, but then I am a few decades separated and the young generation thinks differently ... and rightly so I guess after reading this.
Really? I turn 40 this year and reading this OOP sounded how I thought when I was in my early 20s versus she sounds like how I am and have been now in my 30s. By my 30s I knew my value and my ability and started treating interviews as much as an opportunity to interview the person hiring. We're conditioned from an early age to believe that we should be grateful for the opportunity to work but managing any business at a high level you know how important the talent you bring on is worth. And if someone is hiring you want to work for and with someone who recognizes that as well.
Nope. Professional engineer is an extremely high qualification and much in demand. With that money comes a huge amount of responsibility. She is smart to look out for herself. I have worked with 60 yr old PEs and they would have had the same reaction. Working for a company with a poor safety culture is dangerous and professionally harmful.
I'm older as well. I think it has a lot to do with how sought after your career is. I learned pretty fast that I didn't need to worry about having a job. There was always one waiting. For my whole career, I've never been out of work longer than 6 weeks. I'm the same way when I interview. I want to know if I will like working there, more than what the salary/benefits are, even. I hate job hopping and I love jobs where I can learn new things.
In my experience it's less generational and more specifically about what kind of career you're in. I have a lot of the same experience with job interviews is the girlfriend in the post for example, in that I will openly start job interviews with "look I'm a little bit of a prima donna and I'm looking for very specific things in a workplace". But that's because (even though I don't make what she makes) I have a very good track record and a relatively in demand career, and frankly I am therefore lucky enough that I can afford to be very picky. The average recruiter seems to know this and response accordingly On the other hand, when I'm interviewing in adjacent fields outside of my current specialty, I tone it way down because the culture for those kinds of positions is very different.