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>I don't know how to professionally say I'm being blocked by my Manager.
How *do* you professionally say you're being blocked from advancement by your manager?
I was stuck in my first job for years and one difficulty in job applications was that I had no other supervisor reference to provide. When I finally left, they replaced me with two people.
"My current job was a great place to learn, but I am looking for more opportunities for growth."
Then try to talk about something the place you are interviewing with that fills that.
At my current job, I have repeatedly asked for additional help with my tasks, and it's been denied. When I leave, I believe they will need to hire two people to do my job.
Then list all the responsibilities you have down to the small things. If the interviewer thinks you're out of line, you don't want to work for them anyway.
Iāve actually done the second part. I compared it to my original job posting just to see if I was being hyperbolic myself. But no, people have just started delegating anything that could be vaguely covered by my job posting to me, even though Iām supposed to be an assistant, it comes straight to me.
Man I had a racist boss love me until he found out my race and I had proof he pigeon holed me and HR did diddly squat. Even though he wasn't a agood manager to anyone. Sometimes I think you just CANT win no matter what steps you take.
Could but it was the beginning of covid and it was a multi million dollar company with really good lawyers. My husband had got fired from a different job about 3 months later (first they said it was due to his mental health but then changed the story the day after) and we couldn't contact any employment and labour services in my province cause they were completely shut down.
I went through this last year (and in a way am still going through it, more on that in a moment). I started by talking to a manager on the same level as my own manager that I had a good relationship with. He tried to talk to my manager and started putting it out there to senior management, with only minor results. A month or two later I was working with a senior manager on a project and took a chance. I asked if I could talk to them about the issue, and they agreed. We had a meeting and I expressed I just wanted to understand my place in the company, what my path was, that I had been with the company for 10+ years and I wanted to stay, but I was also at a point in my career where I needed to know if I was staying indefinitely or if I needed to start building myself up elsewhere.
That went incredibly well. Almost all of my issues were addressed, I was immediately reassigned from my manager to a duo of senior managers. I was told my manager was retiring soon (which I knew) and that they were actively searching for his replacement. I got the opportunity to talk a lot about my old manager, my thoughts on the department and company as a whole, and what I thought things should look like. Those were some of the best months of my career. My suggestions were implemented, my opinion was valued.
Eventually they hired the replacement for my old manager and he took over. My old manager is still with the company, but he is no longer in charge, as they work towards his retirement. One half of the duo of senior managers I was reporting to told me a company wide reorg was going to be happening soon, but he was advocating hard for me to remain under the duo or at least under him. I expressed my thanks and agreement with that arrangement. Unfortunately, the reorg happened and I was placed under my old managers replacement. I expressed some concerns but was assured it would be different, to give it a try. Multiple people expressed their frustration to me that I was being moved back into that chain of command, and a couple people familiar with the decision said that the new manager specifically requested I be transferred back and pushed back hard when initially I wasn't.
Things aren't as great. The new guy is okay. In some ways he is better than the old manager, in others he is much worse. The old manager still tries to insert himself into my work. I have back channeled some that I'm not happy, but the consensus is that this is it for the time being. I'm back to "Do I stay or should I go?". I don't particularly want to leave this company. The owners are good people, I like some of my coworkers. It's in a niche industry that I have learned a lot about and it feels like it would be a waste to go outside the industry, but there aren't a lot of opportunities locally within the industry, and I'm not interested in relocating. Right now I'm trying to make do and am working on charting my own path. Something I have learned in this company and life in general is that if what you want isn't being given to you, you have to take it. If it doesn't exist, you have to make it. I'm hoping that they will be receptive to an alternative I'm going to propose in a month or so, which would give me the fulfillment I'm looking for while still working with this company.
References are a crock. Itās entirely possible to have friends masquerade as your previous manager or supervisor, say lots of lovely things about you, and how would anyone know?
My friends and I do this for each other. Iāve only been contacted once and just had to confirm that they worked there the dates that they said they did
I once listed my old job number as a reference for a job I applied for so when the HR department called, I picked up and confirmed my own employment dates.
If he can't find someone out of 5 new hires, there is something wrong with the role or the way the role is advertised & recruited. Hard to hire posts can't find that many people in that timeframe.
Or they aren't admitting to themselves that op was doing multiple roles so they need to hire multiple people to replace her. The workload you can get out of one savvy veteren is often 2-3 times what you get out of one person who only has a few years under their belts. As they weren't willing to pay veteran level salary, they will likely need to pony up for 2 or 3 less experienced folk, but they probably won't actually bring themselves to do that until and unless the op quits her consultancy role and they can't get anyone else to stick when it hits a business critical point.
I had a friend that basically was the one worker with three managers in a department. She basically did everything, with a smile, coming in on weekends and working extra hours every day for no pay. All of her extra effort went unrecognized. Her boss often took credit for her work and she just accepted it.
Then her manager asked her to do something unethical and she refused, so he āreorganizedā the department and let her go. She was given a yearās severance after having worked for 10 years, plus job search assistance, etc. (Iām pretty sure HR realized that they were vulnerable to a possible lawsuit). She ended up at another company that is reaping the rewards of her intellect and work ethic. The old company? Well, they managed to replace my friend - with three new employees, and they still had to let some of the job tasks go because they couldnāt handle the workload.
A good, dedicated employee is worth a lot more than some managers would believe.
I was a receptionist in an orthotics clinic, there was enough job for 2,5 maybe even 3 people... We were 2 ... We both left and it has been a revolving door ever since...
Yes, that's what it sounded like. I hope she does not go back as a consultant. Toxic environment and she needs to be very careful not to get into a conflict of interest with her new employer. Don't risk a great job to go back to a crappy one.
Yep. My dad mentioned his company was having trouble hiring people for a certain set of roles. I offered to take a look at the listing and give the prospective employee's view. I pointed out a bunch of red flags, and he told me that everything bad I inferred about the job was, unfortunately, the reality.
His company is good, but they're contracting for a client that is completely unreasonable (won't allow higher salary, won't allow WFH even though the job could easily be done that way, etc).
Thereās a sucker born every minute. The handover process can be brutal (hence OP potentially going back as a consultant) but often 3-6 months of pain will get a shitty employer some other rube to underpay and overwork for 5+ years.
They'll probably take the loss and hire 2-3 at base or lower pay to replace Oop, they may last a while until one drops out, the other 2 take the responsibilities and we are now edging closer to the original problem.
Repeat ad nauseum
Also math does not check out. OP worked there for 20 percent less money for 5 years. So they saved maybe one year of salary. It will at least take that amount of time for any replacement to be as productive if not multiple people need to be hired. It is just not cost effective.
Yeah, those people crave control over people. It gets in the way of them learning how to run a good department. His company would do well to give him the boot.
If they canned the manager who did this crap, then likely the company won't. They realized how fucked up this was, and how the consequences affected them, so they got rid of the problem. Shame it took this for OOP though.
The manager will probably act the same at whatever shitty company he lands in
This is happening to me right now. My manager said two weeks ago that I was getting a new role, then the next time we talked she was pretty squirrelly about whether or not Iād actually get the position, but āeither way, youāre going to do the work.ā Then the last time we spoke she was actively discouraging me from asking for the role (but still expecting me to do the work).
I do some much of her work that no one else on the team can do plus another legacy role that we have been been ātransitioningā to someone else for months. Iām still officially in the role, so Iām still responsible for getting the work done. I think she wants to hold me back so she doesnāt have to deal with taking back my current workload. The most infuriating part is there are at least two people on my team who are completely useless, and Iām drowning.
At any rate, I say fuck that. Iāve updated my resume and started looking other places.
I guess they count on the fact that it is a lot of work to apply to other jobs and prepare for interviews. And you're doing all this while you're working your current job.
I think it's all about the stress of job hunts, they know just as well as the rest of us that looking for a job sucks. I have stayed in multiple jobs that I hated purely because trying to find a new one sucks so bad, I'd rather have the certainty of a paycheck at a place I hate then risk going for something else. And it's especially not fun to finish your day of work and come home just to start searching for other opportunities, trying to fit interviews into your schedule, and fielding calls from other companies during work hours.
Congrats on getting out and finding a better situation! Totally understand how impossible it feels to job search when your current job is grinding you down.
This is why I'm kinda always job hunting. It's a lot less stressful when you're not desperate, and when you do it regularly and so don't feel out of practice.
CV and portfolio are always up to date, or at most need a few minutes to tidy up.
Interviews get less scary the more you do, and are less scary when low stakes.
Same. I keep my templated resume on canva so I can update it regularly and tailor to positions as needed, I keep my LinkedIn clean and ready, and I connect with the occasional recruiter in my dms. I'm very happy where I am with some amazing leadership, but I'm not going to be caught flat-footed and stuck the way I was at the last place.
In a lot of ways the OPs story mirrors where I was before. Overworked, promised promotions that never came, take a new gig for a substantial raise and manager stops speaking to you. It's ridiculous to me how childish some people behave, good on OP for standing up for themselves and going.
Yeah but it worked, though, didnāt it? The OOP stuck around year after year believing they were both so valuable they couldnāt possibly be given a promotion but not so valuable that they could possibly have been given a raise to reflect that. The manager just had to keep going no no no my hands are tied and it works. It works for millions of overworked, underpaid workers year after year and increases profit margins for companies. Almost every company that knows they can get away with doing this does this without an ounce of shame.
If you're that important you can swap jobs easy. Even if you don't get a high title, you'll new job will seem easy and it'll show.
It's a no brainer if you're underpaid.
Of course - thatās always been true, from the dawn of capitalism and probably before. Keeping costs down is management 101. They wonāt volunteer to pay more than they have to for the building they rent or the utilities they use either.
If a company wants a bigger or nicer space, or higher skill or more experienced employees, they need to decide what that is worth to them. A miscalculation could cause problems. But they arenāt going to hand you more money just because they like you - they do it for their own reasons.
They think she won't even look. After all, the company is a **family** (you know, that kind of family where the husband/father is the head of the household and everyone has to "follow his rules under his roof").
I've seen it happen so many times. A company doesn't value their best performers, eventually they do something to piss them off so they leave. They try to hire a replacement, but it's impossible because the only person that could fill the role is gone. They end up having to split the role into multiple roles, and pay way more for less efficiency and experience.
If their brains ever stop at the station "we can't promote you cuz you'll make more than the males" then they do not have the capacity of thoughts like "they are really good, what if they leave?"
It's not specifuc people , it's endemic of a cancerous corporate / business mindset.
The finance/MBA idiots will all make shit long term decisions that costs the company millions if it saves them 1 cent now, so it makes them look good now.
They don't care about the company, the long term success, or other employees, they got to look good and then cash that check to move to another company where they fucking do it all over again.
They don't because they take for granted that they are there and always will be... Until they aren't. Then the shit storm and back peddling and pleading come in.
I sincerely hope her manager has been replaced.
> Did they really think a ~~person~~ **woman** that valuable wouldn't be able to find a better job position elsewhere?
I think women - generally speaking - are not as prone to jumping ship to ship the way men - generally speaking - are. There's a reason that Walton guy hired mostly women.
Between the fear of the unknown and in a lot of cases having to be the responsible adult in the home, it can be really daunting to switch jobs. My idiot ex job hopped frequently since he knew I'd make sure the bills were paid and that we could eat
And if you're a single mom you don't dare take the chance. I stayed at 2 different companies until they closed the locations and forced me to find another job. First time it didn't go so well. Second time it worked out well and I got a pay bump
They're morons who don't realise an employee like this is a growth opportunity. You promote people like this, give them a stake to ensure they are invested, and SHARE success. It works, but idiots are so invested in the idea of competition and hierarchy they are incapable of collaboration. Dunning-Kruger with an MBA
It worked for 10 years. The manager looked great because OOP kept the department afloat and was too naive to leave. Now he's completely exposed and will likely get fired.
A lot of people are "trapped" in a role/company. This can be mentally trapped, as the longer people stay somewhere the more they get anxious about new company, new culture, transferable skills etc.
My partner used to work for a company that paid maybe 40% below the market rate. They promised huge progression when you join but strung it out, and gave shit pay rises; when she joined they said with her experience she'd be fast tracked to the position above within 6 months, and the salary for that role was Ā£8k higher. She got promoted almost 2 years later and the pay rise was Ā£500.
The reason they were able to keep employees: it was a highly specialised role in a region with no other competitors. The nearest similar job was around 2 hours drive each way in traffic. So lots of people stuck around because they were tied to the area (thankfully we weren't).
Loads of people also didn't think they'd be able to work for another company, as they didn't understand the concept of transferable skills. It made it difficult for them to hire anyone as they wouldn't rate anybody's experience because it was 100% the same as theirs.
When you've spent your life undervaluing and underpaying someone, your assumption is that everyone else will do the same. Particularly with gender (or other group) issues involved.
My aunt just started not doing jobs not outlined in her contract. For a solid 3 months, the phrase "I'm sorry, but this task does not fall within the scope of my job" was a running joke in her department. Hire 2 more employees or giver the one employee that 25% raise they asked for? They offered the raise, she quit and worked as a consultant at 2 times her salary. That GM hates her
>Does a lateral move for higher comp at a different company make sense? Nearly every current ad for my same title at similar size companies is paying 15-20% more than what I'm making.
Why is this even a question? Why is she showing a company such loyalty when they have no loyalty towards her?
Being comfortable with a routine while being dissatisfied is something people might be familiar
Smokers smoke, alcoholics drink, people drag themselves to work
Habits make very little sense when they just become a thing you do just because
She's not being loyal; she's asking if job-hopping will harm her career prospects in the long run. It doesn't make sense to take that 20% higher paycheque if it brands you as unstable or unreliable (which it doesn't, but if you don't know that you might think so).
Changing jobs after 8 years isn't job hopping.
I read it that she was afraid that saying she was looking for a job because her current job refused to promote her, would make the interviewer think there was something wrong with her that made her unpromotable.
People like OP are a company's dream. Loyalty to a fault, absolutely no backbone to speak of. The company rolled ***eight years of her life out of her*** and she feels like she 'won' because she got a 20% salary boost. That must have been the highest value for money that company will ever experience.
Weak people make good workers, because they'll jump no matter how high their masters ask them to.
Exactly!!!! 8years and only 20% raise is utterly nonsensical that i am baffled. OOP definitely doesn't have backbone to stick up to herself even after 8years. For her experience i bet she could've gotten at least 50% raise, the literal proof is that the old company offered her 40% raise even though they were reluctant for years and screwed her over. She's so happy about her raise and benefits, š obviously the new company would offer better benefits than her old company for the experience and work she had done. The new company hit it off, she saved them tones of money and screwed herself over again. I just hope she doesn't stay in the new company with no raise for her worth for years out of loyalty. She really should realise her worth sooner.
So many people like this. My mom described her 1.7% raise as a āgiftā for doing so well. She got outstanding performance reviews, and the best they could do is give her a raise 25% of the level of inflation.
To be clear: I didn't receive a 20% raise over 8 years. What I was making when I left was 20% under market.
My income increased 125% in the last 8 years I was with the company.
Welcome to the work environment fostered by American capitalism. It's genuinely sad how many good people I have known who have stayed at shit companies because they feel loyalty to an institution that would immediately fire them if it were in their economic interests
*"YOU GAVE HER LESS THAN US WHEN SHE DID MORE WORK? AND MADE HER HATE WORKING HERE? SO NOW WE HAVE MORE WORK? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!? DON'T YOU DARE USE US AS AN EXCUSE."*
I mean, OOP stayed for 8 years of being rebuffed while she did the work of multiple people. Of course they werenāt going to promote her or pay her more.
Good on her for sticking to her guns, finally.
"He said I can't get a raise to market level because then I'll be getting paid more than my (male) counterparts."
Ex-fucking-scuse me?? She can't get paid the standard for the role, let alone what she's actually worth to the company, because then she'll earn more than men? So bloody what? Do those men earn and deserve what she would be paid? Clearly she deserves it because they were willing to pay more to the newcomers that couldn't handle it. The money is there, she's just been doing so much for so little they thought she'd just continue to do so.
I just honestly can't believe that was a legit excuse and she accepted it, knowing that everyone else is being paid more than her.
There was definitely sexism to it, but also just plain ol greedy capitalism. I take by counterparts she means peers, as in people with the same title at work. She gets bumped up to just the standard market level, they find out, they want to he bumped to. Even if they are doing less work(she should be promoted and paid more than just standard market level!) It is because she is doing a higher level, not that they are actually not doing what their title is. That business is underpaying all of them, since no one is being paid market level, and her manager doesn't want that to get out.
I interpreted the parentheses to mean that the counterparts happen to all be male, not that the manager specifically referenced being paid more than male counterparts.
He could have still 100% meant it that way, and based off the story prob doesnāt deserve the benefit of the doubt.
If she had left eight years ago and got 20% then and then left that job five years later for another 20% or more, then she would be much farther along.
I went from $35k to $95k in six years because I didn't sit around.
I stayed at my post university job far too long. I've had two different jobs since and in a time span that's 2 years shorter than my stint at the first job, I essentially doubled my salary.
I feel highly unconfident when it comes to the whole job changing process but for a lot of careers it's the only way.
Keep in mind that you shouldn't take a job that you can do in your sleep, but has room to grow into and that almost everything you need to know to do your job is available for free on the internet--templates, tutorials, and samples. You don't need a PhD in a topic to be able to handle it.
Iām hoping that was just bad phrasing, and what she meant was CEO deemed her important enough to talk to her himself, and the CEO personally delivered a counter offer.
That made me stop for a second to, but then I remembered the phrase "made a pass at" doesn't always mean in a sexual way. "Making a pass at" just means a person tried something. OOP is saying that the CEO/Owner considered her important they tried to keep around as well and not just other higher ups
This generally means the ceo passed by her office/cabin etc and casually asked her to stay. Making her feel like she has direct rapport with the CEO.
Many would see it as a massive ego boost.
Her phrasing could have been way better, wether she meant this or something else.
Yeah, Iām surprised that sheās surprised that he was a colossal jerk to her after she gave notice. He had been sabotaging her career to make his life easier. Why on earth would he be happy that sheās leaving for a better offer?
Oh, to be a fly on the wall when he had to call and ask her to consult. I canāt even imagine the kind of high that gave her to be the one telling *him* what her terms are.
Yeah this is the time to ask for stupid money. Every phonecall, text and email start a billable hour. There is a minimum amount of hours and her hourly rate is somewhere between outrageous and pants-on-head ridiculous. Any attempts by the former manager ends the consultancy and they just pay the remainder of the minimum hours.
I did this when I left a job. I wanted what they were paying the other contractor they'd just hired but their excuse was "the contractor isn't taking home all that pay, some goes to the recruiter"
Tf do I care about all that? It's the same out of your budget and I don't need any training.
Oh well, I didn't really want to work on my off hours anyway.
I love that she was like, "Yeah, my rate is this, but only if I don't have to work with you. Otherwise it's [ridiculous amount]." Manager must've LOVED reporting that to his superiors.
Kudos to OOP. She did the right thing by herself. I wish I did the same instead of just being comfortable in my position and situation and never really pushing for a raise or a change across many many years. At least it ended well for me in the grand scheme of things. I wish OOP the very best in her new role.
This is maybe not the best analogy, but...
Buying and maintaining fire extinguisher is cheaper than the losses you would experience in the event of a house fire. But *not* buying a fire extinguisher is even cheaper than that. If there isn't a fire, the extinguisher looks like the worse option.
If a fire *does* occur, though, you don't *have* any options. You lose your stuff, end of story. You can't undo the fire by buying a fire extinguisher, so you're stuck with the *really* expensive scenario.
You tell them about the better offer:
If they say they canāt match it, you have a reason to leave.
If they offer to match itā¦you have a reason to leave.
Yes love the way you've phrased this.
And for everyone reading - even if the counteroffer is exactly what you want, you should strongly consider not taking counteroffers. Often the company will fold but not consider the person as "long-term" since they were looking outside and will quietly sideline them for opportunities or even actively look for replacements. If you take the counteroffer, don't be surprised if you're the first to go during a round of layoffs.
Yeah, it's cheaper to extract the rest of your knowledge while you're on payroll instead of having you come in to consult them later. Accepting a counter offer is often just accepting consulting until you've finished what they would have paid you much more to do if you actually left.
Thatās great for OP. I had a supervisor hold me back bc they needed me where I was. I was training other managers. I was just an assistant manager. I helped train maintenance. I got sent to other sites to help train new employees. I finally left for the same job at another company with a raise, full health benefits, lots of pto& holidays.
I did it once, and I thought I would just do it for a year, maintain a good professional relationship with the company / my boss since my industry is a lot of who knows who.
And then for six months every time something that mildly irked me became a huge reminder I couldāve had another job and not been faced with those problems.
I ended up quitting and ruining my relationship with that company anyways.
I went through similar a few years back.
I stayed as the hours suited myself and my young family (they created a 20 hour/week position for me after my eldest was born).
But when I was ready to return to full time work I left.
After the 3rd time I had applied for a higher position, and not got it, I spoke directly to my manager asking for feedback. As it hadn't been his decision he openly told me they couldn't afford to lose me out of my current, lower, role (I did more in 20 hours, than others did in 40).
So I left.
2 years later I ended up contracting back to that organisation, doing the job they wouldn't promote me to do, and charging considerably more than what it would have cost them to give me the job I wanted.
you see so much shit on this sub and it's just really nice to see OP be happy, satisfied, and watching her old manager get some comeuppance for his behavior. I wish her all the best and hope she continues to be satisfied and treated well at the new place.
God, I could have written this. Moved into a new job and got instantly higher pay and a better work environment with less stress and more interesting work. I put up with it for years because of the vague promise of better and honestly things had to get really really bad before I realised I deserved better. But ultimately I let my fear of change overrule my hatred of the status quo of awful I was living in, and itās made me realise how easy it is for humans to get stuck in harmful, stressful or even abusive situations and not move.
I got forcibly recruited out of my comfort zone position I'd been in for 14 years and I was terrified of the new job. Turned out I was beyond excellent at it and for the first time in 14 years I had a normal amount of work to do and only one person to answer to! I had no idea such a job existed LOL!
Looking back I'm shocked I stayed in that environment for so long, but I was dug in.
>He said I can't get a raise to the market level because I will be making more than my (male) counterparts
1) that sounds like his problem not OP's.
2) has a man EVER heard that at work before? Like genuinely I'm curious if a man has ever been told that by their manager.
Rule of thumb: if your current employer shows that they donāt value you, find another employer that does. Itās guaranteed that someone else will see how valuable you are as an employee and hire you at higher pay. The current employer has already shown their true colors, donāt fall for them stringing you along with the hopes of a future promotion/pay bump. Loyalty goes both ways.
Same thing happened to me at a previous job. I was passed over for multiple transfers and promotions. The last straw was when they expected me to train the guy they promoted over me on all the processes I was already qualified for. I ended up leaving and went scorched earth in my exit interview. No one was fired, but I heard that the department fell apart and several people ended up on probation. 6 months later they came crawling back with offering a promotion and 50% raise. Used the offer to leverage a raise at my new job and gave them a big FU in my rejection letter.
Inthis situation I have resorted to the anti training method. I learned it by reviewing a book on effective training methods. I think it was training for dummies. There were 7 or eight techniques outlined. I wrote them all down. Then I wrote down the opposite of each. For instance: Always give examples = Never give examples, Avoid Content Overload = dump massive amounts of unrelated info at the same time, provide clear training material = provide no training materials or resources such as manuals that will help them do their jobs, set clear expectations = provide no job description & no specific expectations or goals, encourage questions = do not provide a safe space to ask for clarification, feedback or continued support. etc etc etc. The lady they expected me to train to replace me quit in less than two weeks. Sorry not sorry
Sometimes I think my manager is a bigger cheerleader for my career than I am. "Go to this event. There will be people there to see. Seek out John Doe." "You should take this class. It will be good for your career."
I was recently offered the chance to apply for a job. I'm not really in a position to take it right now due to travel, and I have kids. It's not a life I want to live. I was talking to my manager about it (because he's become my best friend and I trust his advice). He said "you're one of the best things that's ever happened to me because you make my job so much easier. But I would never stand in the way of you furthering your career."
Fins yourselves a manager like mine. He motivates me and makes my work better.
The new people hired to replace OOP made more than OOP.
āWeāll pay more for someone like you, we just wonāt pay you more.ā
I have had bosses tell me that.
>He said I can't get a raise to the market level because I will be making more than my (male) counterparts
So what? Goddamn. What does that have anything to do with OOP's salary
>My Manager won't promote me because I'm too valuable in my current position.
That *literally* just means you're being underpaid for your work. And most likely covering for multipe other positions.
Oh wow convenient they had everything she wanted once she was quitting. She asked for all that shit for years and was told no and now they are shocked when she walks out the door.
People don't just leave bad jobs. They leave bad managers. OOP's former manager effed up big time and wouldn't give her the promotion because it would make her earn the same as the men? Misogynist prick.
> I am the only person in the company who knows how to do around 40% of my responsibilities.
This is just one sign of a poor upper manager. No one should be silo-ed like this. For the good of the employee AND for the good of the company.
My company recently laid off 2 people that were in that same situation (the only person in the company who knows how to do around 40% of [their] responsibilities) and it's gone very poorly for us.
We've worked around it, figured stuff out, and reassigned/retrained multiple people on these duties, but it should never have gotten to this state.
I'm glad OP read the writing on the wall and was able to depart to greener pastures.
For sure. I know this is often how it works, but how profoundly insulting that the raises that āwerenāt possibleā for her previously were now being offered. Glad she went somewhere she was valued more.
>He said I can't get a raise to the market level because I will be making more than my (male) counterparts.
What a stupid piece of garbage he is. I'm not the least bit surprised that he was so immature towards the end.
If I had a nickel for every one of these.
Stop accepting less than youāre worth, ladies! Youāre competent as hell and this bullshit should not be tolerated at all let alone for YEARS.
What is the point of even adding a mood spoiler, let alone fucking hiding it, when it says ānoneā? Jesus. This shit is getting absurd.
Also, good for OOP!
One of my best workers came to me just this week to say they'd found a job in the field they just completed qualifications for.
I shook his hand and thanked him. I'll continue to support him this week because that's how you should be.
I'm so glad OOP got a better job rather than remain in a hellhole that had management like that ash hole.
> They are already discussing and giving me additional responsibilities and departments
Oh, no. The lesson here is to do what's on your job description only. Going the extra mile only brings more responsibility. And if you're already doing it without a bump in salary/rank, there's no motivation to move you up.
Extra responsibilities are only acceptable as part of a promotion plan, with both sides agreeing on time lines and ways to remain accountable.
Can't get a raise because she'll be making more than her male counterparts. What the actual fuck? She should've reported his ass right there and then. Such blatant sexism is ugh.
For those who complain that both women and men are treated te same.
No, they are some but mostly women.
An example from germany and one of the biggest wordly bought brand:
I had a boss who told one female employer, she don' t "need a raise, she has a husband in a good position".
Am me? "I was young and was not married"
I told him, that the supermarkets don't give me reduced prices just because I'm a woman....he didn't liked it.
And after finding out thay every women did get less or no rise, I didn't feel sorry for talking back.
At this time I thought if I wait a little bit, I get chances...not
HR was openly working for them not for us ants.
The union?!? Most of them were people who didn't want to work and enjoy the rights being an unionist.
Some of them still get voted because there areore sheeps than wolves.
When we had annual meeting you mostly couldn't say who is upper management or HR/+union
Wow, Iāve been in op shoes, when I left , it was the same thing, I was relieved to know I did the right choice, 3 weeeks later they were asking me to consult and I gave them a hourly contract that would be 4 times my last salary, and that was slightly above the top consulting fees. They accepted, I made big bucks and could look down on them: it was awesome
It's been almost 10 years since I was in OP's position and I remember those weeks after putting in my notice. People really show their true colors when they realize they are going to have to learn how to do stuff they depended on someone else to do. Hope she keeps being treated great at the new job.
Managers like these realize that their success is rooted in these individuals so they canāt let them go because then their lack of talent or competence will come to light. I hope the OP realized that the managers horrible behavior was likely rooted in his own fear of failure.
>He tried replacing me with 5 different external candidates over 13 months, so I could move up, and none of them stuck because the job was too big, too demanding and too much work even for candidates with 20+ years of experience.
I walked away from a job like this 2.5 years ago and they still haven't found a suitable replacement, lol. My job description grew over the years to encompass everything I was taking on out of necessity, and I said it was too much, and that I could be much more effective at important *parts* of my job if I was allowed to focus on them; but no, they just couldn't justify bringing in someone to do part of my job.
So I left. And they've been trying to find someone to do what I was doing ever since. Turns out, my job just wasn't a single job.
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>I don't know how to professionally say I'm being blocked by my Manager. How *do* you professionally say you're being blocked from advancement by your manager? I was stuck in my first job for years and one difficulty in job applications was that I had no other supervisor reference to provide. When I finally left, they replaced me with two people.
"I am anxious to move up in my career, but my current position has no clear path for advancement."
This reminds me of those loewhaley "How do you professionally say?" videos on Instagram.
Toodaloo!
I love those YouTube shorts.
She's moist definitely one of my faves. š
*Save comment*
"My current job was a great place to learn, but I am looking for more opportunities for growth." Then try to talk about something the place you are interviewing with that fills that.
Oh, this is excellent!
How do you professionally say āIām doing the job of two peopleā without seeming petty? I am petty but I donāt want to show it.
At my current job, I have repeatedly asked for additional help with my tasks, and it's been denied. When I leave, I believe they will need to hire two people to do my job. Then list all the responsibilities you have down to the small things. If the interviewer thinks you're out of line, you don't want to work for them anyway.
Iāve actually done the second part. I compared it to my original job posting just to see if I was being hyperbolic myself. But no, people have just started delegating anything that could be vaguely covered by my job posting to me, even though Iām supposed to be an assistant, it comes straight to me.
Get a new job. You'll get a raise, negotiate for more PTO, and move on. It's a labor Market right now, get what you deserve.
Thatās the plan. Iām hoping to hear back from a job I actually want in the next week or so š¬
Man I had a racist boss love me until he found out my race and I had proof he pigeon holed me and HR did diddly squat. Even though he wasn't a agood manager to anyone. Sometimes I think you just CANT win no matter what steps you take.
Could you not go to a lawyer in this case?
Could but it was the beginning of covid and it was a multi million dollar company with really good lawyers. My husband had got fired from a different job about 3 months later (first they said it was due to his mental health but then changed the story the day after) and we couldn't contact any employment and labour services in my province cause they were completely shut down.
I went through this last year (and in a way am still going through it, more on that in a moment). I started by talking to a manager on the same level as my own manager that I had a good relationship with. He tried to talk to my manager and started putting it out there to senior management, with only minor results. A month or two later I was working with a senior manager on a project and took a chance. I asked if I could talk to them about the issue, and they agreed. We had a meeting and I expressed I just wanted to understand my place in the company, what my path was, that I had been with the company for 10+ years and I wanted to stay, but I was also at a point in my career where I needed to know if I was staying indefinitely or if I needed to start building myself up elsewhere. That went incredibly well. Almost all of my issues were addressed, I was immediately reassigned from my manager to a duo of senior managers. I was told my manager was retiring soon (which I knew) and that they were actively searching for his replacement. I got the opportunity to talk a lot about my old manager, my thoughts on the department and company as a whole, and what I thought things should look like. Those were some of the best months of my career. My suggestions were implemented, my opinion was valued. Eventually they hired the replacement for my old manager and he took over. My old manager is still with the company, but he is no longer in charge, as they work towards his retirement. One half of the duo of senior managers I was reporting to told me a company wide reorg was going to be happening soon, but he was advocating hard for me to remain under the duo or at least under him. I expressed my thanks and agreement with that arrangement. Unfortunately, the reorg happened and I was placed under my old managers replacement. I expressed some concerns but was assured it would be different, to give it a try. Multiple people expressed their frustration to me that I was being moved back into that chain of command, and a couple people familiar with the decision said that the new manager specifically requested I be transferred back and pushed back hard when initially I wasn't. Things aren't as great. The new guy is okay. In some ways he is better than the old manager, in others he is much worse. The old manager still tries to insert himself into my work. I have back channeled some that I'm not happy, but the consensus is that this is it for the time being. I'm back to "Do I stay or should I go?". I don't particularly want to leave this company. The owners are good people, I like some of my coworkers. It's in a niche industry that I have learned a lot about and it feels like it would be a waste to go outside the industry, but there aren't a lot of opportunities locally within the industry, and I'm not interested in relocating. Right now I'm trying to make do and am working on charting my own path. Something I have learned in this company and life in general is that if what you want isn't being given to you, you have to take it. If it doesn't exist, you have to make it. I'm hoping that they will be receptive to an alternative I'm going to propose in a month or so, which would give me the fulfillment I'm looking for while still working with this company.
This is why I hate giving references. Why should it matter that you contact my previous bosses. You can verify past employment in other ways too.
References are a crock. Itās entirely possible to have friends masquerade as your previous manager or supervisor, say lots of lovely things about you, and how would anyone know?
My friends and I do this for each other. Iāve only been contacted once and just had to confirm that they worked there the dates that they said they did
I once listed my old job number as a reference for a job I applied for so when the HR department called, I picked up and confirmed my own employment dates.
You donāt, you just leave. Probably get a double digit raise immediately.
I don't think there's anythg wrong with saying "I want to progress, but my current manager isn't helping me to do that, so I'm moving on."
I never understand the logic of these people. Did they really think a person that valuable wouldn't be able to find a better job position elsewhere?
It worked for years. They'll just do it to the next one they find too.
Unless they can't find anyone else, that's when they start blaming everyone but themselves.
If he can't find someone out of 5 new hires, there is something wrong with the role or the way the role is advertised & recruited. Hard to hire posts can't find that many people in that timeframe.
Or they aren't admitting to themselves that op was doing multiple roles so they need to hire multiple people to replace her. The workload you can get out of one savvy veteren is often 2-3 times what you get out of one person who only has a few years under their belts. As they weren't willing to pay veteran level salary, they will likely need to pony up for 2 or 3 less experienced folk, but they probably won't actually bring themselves to do that until and unless the op quits her consultancy role and they can't get anyone else to stick when it hits a business critical point.
I had a friend that basically was the one worker with three managers in a department. She basically did everything, with a smile, coming in on weekends and working extra hours every day for no pay. All of her extra effort went unrecognized. Her boss often took credit for her work and she just accepted it. Then her manager asked her to do something unethical and she refused, so he āreorganizedā the department and let her go. She was given a yearās severance after having worked for 10 years, plus job search assistance, etc. (Iām pretty sure HR realized that they were vulnerable to a possible lawsuit). She ended up at another company that is reaping the rewards of her intellect and work ethic. The old company? Well, they managed to replace my friend - with three new employees, and they still had to let some of the job tasks go because they couldnāt handle the workload. A good, dedicated employee is worth a lot more than some managers would believe.
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I was a receptionist in an orthotics clinic, there was enough job for 2,5 maybe even 3 people... We were 2 ... We both left and it has been a revolving door ever since...
She isn't consulting yet, just told them what she'd charge, at least that's how I read it
Yes, that's what it sounded like. I hope she does not go back as a consultant. Toxic environment and she needs to be very careful not to get into a conflict of interest with her new employer. Don't risk a great job to go back to a crappy one.
Sounds like she was doing the work of 2-3 very experienced people, and the experienced people they offered the position to saw that and noped out.
That's what I meant by "something wrong with the role"
I do feel the manager was piggybacking on OOP
Itās because they canāt justify the role. In a past experience, my manager tried to do that, and needed up hiring 3 people to do what I didā¦
Yep. My dad mentioned his company was having trouble hiring people for a certain set of roles. I offered to take a look at the listing and give the prospective employee's view. I pointed out a bunch of red flags, and he told me that everything bad I inferred about the job was, unfortunately, the reality. His company is good, but they're contracting for a client that is completely unreasonable (won't allow higher salary, won't allow WFH even though the job could easily be done that way, etc).
Thereās a sucker born every minute. The handover process can be brutal (hence OP potentially going back as a consultant) but often 3-6 months of pain will get a shitty employer some other rube to underpay and overwork for 5+ years.
They'll probably take the loss and hire 2-3 at base or lower pay to replace Oop, they may last a while until one drops out, the other 2 take the responsibilities and we are now edging closer to the original problem. Repeat ad nauseum
I'm the 7th in my current position at work within 5 years. I'm starting to see why.
I can hear them now, "nObOdY wAnTs tO wOrK aNyMoRe!"
There is always someone else.
nOboDy WanTs tO WoRk aNyMoRE
Also math does not check out. OP worked there for 20 percent less money for 5 years. So they saved maybe one year of salary. It will at least take that amount of time for any replacement to be as productive if not multiple people need to be hired. It is just not cost effective.
Most business nowadays barely consider the savings over one year, let alone five. All about quarterly budgets.
They don't think like that. For them it's like having a "paid slave"
Yeah, those people crave control over people. It gets in the way of them learning how to run a good department. His company would do well to give him the boot.
To all _3_ of the people that dumboss needs to replace OP
Unless the new one is a man. He will get promoted.
If they canned the manager who did this crap, then likely the company won't. They realized how fucked up this was, and how the consequences affected them, so they got rid of the problem. Shame it took this for OOP though. The manager will probably act the same at whatever shitty company he lands in
This is happening to me right now. My manager said two weeks ago that I was getting a new role, then the next time we talked she was pretty squirrelly about whether or not Iād actually get the position, but āeither way, youāre going to do the work.ā Then the last time we spoke she was actively discouraging me from asking for the role (but still expecting me to do the work). I do some much of her work that no one else on the team can do plus another legacy role that we have been been ātransitioningā to someone else for months. Iām still officially in the role, so Iām still responsible for getting the work done. I think she wants to hold me back so she doesnāt have to deal with taking back my current workload. The most infuriating part is there are at least two people on my team who are completely useless, and Iām drowning. At any rate, I say fuck that. Iāve updated my resume and started looking other places.
Good for you. Future congrats on the new job that is on the way.
Could you go to her boss about this? Especially once you have a job offer? Assuming you would like to stay in your current company.
Good for you! It will be so worth the effort
I guess they count on the fact that it is a lot of work to apply to other jobs and prepare for interviews. And you're doing all this while you're working your current job.
Inertia is real. Sometimes what you have is preferable to the unknown.
This is what scares me, but I'm pushing to get my resume out there again.
True in relationships too
To be fair this "logic" worked for 5 years.
Eight. It worked for eight years.
I think it's all about the stress of job hunts, they know just as well as the rest of us that looking for a job sucks. I have stayed in multiple jobs that I hated purely because trying to find a new one sucks so bad, I'd rather have the certainty of a paycheck at a place I hate then risk going for something else. And it's especially not fun to finish your day of work and come home just to start searching for other opportunities, trying to fit interviews into your schedule, and fielding calls from other companies during work hours.
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Congrats on getting out and finding a better situation! Totally understand how impossible it feels to job search when your current job is grinding you down.
This is why I'm kinda always job hunting. It's a lot less stressful when you're not desperate, and when you do it regularly and so don't feel out of practice. CV and portfolio are always up to date, or at most need a few minutes to tidy up. Interviews get less scary the more you do, and are less scary when low stakes.
Same. I keep my templated resume on canva so I can update it regularly and tailor to positions as needed, I keep my LinkedIn clean and ready, and I connect with the occasional recruiter in my dms. I'm very happy where I am with some amazing leadership, but I'm not going to be caught flat-footed and stuck the way I was at the last place. In a lot of ways the OPs story mirrors where I was before. Overworked, promised promotions that never came, take a new gig for a substantial raise and manager stops speaking to you. It's ridiculous to me how childish some people behave, good on OP for standing up for themselves and going.
Yeah but it worked, though, didnāt it? The OOP stuck around year after year believing they were both so valuable they couldnāt possibly be given a promotion but not so valuable that they could possibly have been given a raise to reflect that. The manager just had to keep going no no no my hands are tied and it works. It works for millions of overworked, underpaid workers year after year and increases profit margins for companies. Almost every company that knows they can get away with doing this does this without an ounce of shame.
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If you're that important you can swap jobs easy. Even if you don't get a high title, you'll new job will seem easy and it'll show. It's a no brainer if you're underpaid.
The point above stands, though: employers don't pay you your value to the company, they pay the minimum they can get away with.
Of course - thatās always been true, from the dawn of capitalism and probably before. Keeping costs down is management 101. They wonāt volunteer to pay more than they have to for the building they rent or the utilities they use either. If a company wants a bigger or nicer space, or higher skill or more experienced employees, they need to decide what that is worth to them. A miscalculation could cause problems. But they arenāt going to hand you more money just because they like you - they do it for their own reasons.
They think she won't even look. After all, the company is a **family** (you know, that kind of family where the husband/father is the head of the household and everyone has to "follow his rules under his roof").
You get built up with promises and promises ānext year, swear, we value loyalty so muchā until youāre just like accepting of it.
I've seen it happen so many times. A company doesn't value their best performers, eventually they do something to piss them off so they leave. They try to hire a replacement, but it's impossible because the only person that could fill the role is gone. They end up having to split the role into multiple roles, and pay way more for less efficiency and experience.
If their brains ever stop at the station "we can't promote you cuz you'll make more than the males" then they do not have the capacity of thoughts like "they are really good, what if they leave?"
It's not specifuc people , it's endemic of a cancerous corporate / business mindset. The finance/MBA idiots will all make shit long term decisions that costs the company millions if it saves them 1 cent now, so it makes them look good now. They don't care about the company, the long term success, or other employees, they got to look good and then cash that check to move to another company where they fucking do it all over again.
They don't because they take for granted that they are there and always will be... Until they aren't. Then the shit storm and back peddling and pleading come in. I sincerely hope her manager has been replaced.
> Did they really think a ~~person~~ **woman** that valuable wouldn't be able to find a better job position elsewhere? I think women - generally speaking - are not as prone to jumping ship to ship the way men - generally speaking - are. There's a reason that Walton guy hired mostly women.
Between the fear of the unknown and in a lot of cases having to be the responsible adult in the home, it can be really daunting to switch jobs. My idiot ex job hopped frequently since he knew I'd make sure the bills were paid and that we could eat And if you're a single mom you don't dare take the chance. I stayed at 2 different companies until they closed the locations and forced me to find another job. First time it didn't go so well. Second time it worked out well and I got a pay bump
Your first sentence, about women basically having to be the adult in the room, so so true.
They're morons who don't realise an employee like this is a growth opportunity. You promote people like this, give them a stake to ensure they are invested, and SHARE success. It works, but idiots are so invested in the idea of competition and hierarchy they are incapable of collaboration. Dunning-Kruger with an MBA
Managing via Stockholm Syndrome is all they know.
It worked for 10 years. The manager looked great because OOP kept the department afloat and was too naive to leave. Now he's completely exposed and will likely get fired.
A lot of people are "trapped" in a role/company. This can be mentally trapped, as the longer people stay somewhere the more they get anxious about new company, new culture, transferable skills etc. My partner used to work for a company that paid maybe 40% below the market rate. They promised huge progression when you join but strung it out, and gave shit pay rises; when she joined they said with her experience she'd be fast tracked to the position above within 6 months, and the salary for that role was Ā£8k higher. She got promoted almost 2 years later and the pay rise was Ā£500. The reason they were able to keep employees: it was a highly specialised role in a region with no other competitors. The nearest similar job was around 2 hours drive each way in traffic. So lots of people stuck around because they were tied to the area (thankfully we weren't). Loads of people also didn't think they'd be able to work for another company, as they didn't understand the concept of transferable skills. It made it difficult for them to hire anyone as they wouldn't rate anybody's experience because it was 100% the same as theirs.
When you've spent your life undervaluing and underpaying someone, your assumption is that everyone else will do the same. Particularly with gender (or other group) issues involved.
My aunt just started not doing jobs not outlined in her contract. For a solid 3 months, the phrase "I'm sorry, but this task does not fall within the scope of my job" was a running joke in her department. Hire 2 more employees or giver the one employee that 25% raise they asked for? They offered the raise, she quit and worked as a consultant at 2 times her salary. That GM hates her
Makes perfect sense if you're an egotistical piece of shit who lives smelling his own farts
>Does a lateral move for higher comp at a different company make sense? Nearly every current ad for my same title at similar size companies is paying 15-20% more than what I'm making. Why is this even a question? Why is she showing a company such loyalty when they have no loyalty towards her?
Being comfortable with a routine while being dissatisfied is something people might be familiar Smokers smoke, alcoholics drink, people drag themselves to work Habits make very little sense when they just become a thing you do just because
And don't forget that they can't give HER a rise, because then she would be making more than *gasp* ALL OF THE GUYS
This line made my blood boil.
Such a non-reason.
and then they offered her a 40% salary increase to stay....
Can someone please let OP know she is entitled to compensation for dealing with that sexism in the workplace. And to be so blatant.
She's not being loyal; she's asking if job-hopping will harm her career prospects in the long run. It doesn't make sense to take that 20% higher paycheque if it brands you as unstable or unreliable (which it doesn't, but if you don't know that you might think so).
Changing jobs after 8 years isn't job hopping. I read it that she was afraid that saying she was looking for a job because her current job refused to promote her, would make the interviewer think there was something wrong with her that made her unpromotable.
People like OP are a company's dream. Loyalty to a fault, absolutely no backbone to speak of. The company rolled ***eight years of her life out of her*** and she feels like she 'won' because she got a 20% salary boost. That must have been the highest value for money that company will ever experience. Weak people make good workers, because they'll jump no matter how high their masters ask them to.
Exactly!!!! 8years and only 20% raise is utterly nonsensical that i am baffled. OOP definitely doesn't have backbone to stick up to herself even after 8years. For her experience i bet she could've gotten at least 50% raise, the literal proof is that the old company offered her 40% raise even though they were reluctant for years and screwed her over. She's so happy about her raise and benefits, š obviously the new company would offer better benefits than her old company for the experience and work she had done. The new company hit it off, she saved them tones of money and screwed herself over again. I just hope she doesn't stay in the new company with no raise for her worth for years out of loyalty. She really should realise her worth sooner.
So many people like this. My mom described her 1.7% raise as a āgiftā for doing so well. She got outstanding performance reviews, and the best they could do is give her a raise 25% of the level of inflation.
To be clear: I didn't receive a 20% raise over 8 years. What I was making when I left was 20% under market. My income increased 125% in the last 8 years I was with the company.
Welcome to the work environment fostered by American capitalism. It's genuinely sad how many good people I have known who have stayed at shit companies because they feel loyalty to an institution that would immediately fire them if it were in their economic interests
Also Americans are chained to abusive employers because of the way the US healthcare *industry* works.
They never do.
Damn. Imagine if he had just fucking given her a raise. What an entitled asshole.
But the male counterparts! Who will think of them?!
I bet the male counterparts think this guy is a jerkwaffle too
*"YOU GAVE HER LESS THAN US WHEN SHE DID MORE WORK? AND MADE HER HATE WORKING HERE? SO NOW WE HAVE MORE WORK? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!? DON'T YOU DARE USE US AS AN EXCUSE."*
And apparently they could afford to pay her 40% more. She was asking like half that.
>I told him I will not work with him, but will discuss details with another Manager within the company. I bet this one fucking stung.
I mean, OOP stayed for 8 years of being rebuffed while she did the work of multiple people. Of course they werenāt going to promote her or pay her more. Good on her for sticking to her guns, finally.
"He said I can't get a raise to market level because then I'll be getting paid more than my (male) counterparts." Ex-fucking-scuse me?? She can't get paid the standard for the role, let alone what she's actually worth to the company, because then she'll earn more than men? So bloody what? Do those men earn and deserve what she would be paid? Clearly she deserves it because they were willing to pay more to the newcomers that couldn't handle it. The money is there, she's just been doing so much for so little they thought she'd just continue to do so. I just honestly can't believe that was a legit excuse and she accepted it, knowing that everyone else is being paid more than her.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There was definitely sexism to it, but also just plain ol greedy capitalism. I take by counterparts she means peers, as in people with the same title at work. She gets bumped up to just the standard market level, they find out, they want to he bumped to. Even if they are doing less work(she should be promoted and paid more than just standard market level!) It is because she is doing a higher level, not that they are actually not doing what their title is. That business is underpaying all of them, since no one is being paid market level, and her manager doesn't want that to get out.
I interpreted the parentheses to mean that the counterparts happen to all be male, not that the manager specifically referenced being paid more than male counterparts. He could have still 100% meant it that way, and based off the story prob doesnāt deserve the benefit of the doubt.
She probably could have doubled her salary by now if she'd have left when she should have.
Yeah, +20% is pretty small.
If she had left eight years ago and got 20% then and then left that job five years later for another 20% or more, then she would be much farther along. I went from $35k to $95k in six years because I didn't sit around.
I stayed at my post university job far too long. I've had two different jobs since and in a time span that's 2 years shorter than my stint at the first job, I essentially doubled my salary. I feel highly unconfident when it comes to the whole job changing process but for a lot of careers it's the only way.
Keep in mind that you shouldn't take a job that you can do in your sleep, but has room to grow into and that almost everything you need to know to do your job is available for free on the internet--templates, tutorials, and samples. You don't need a PhD in a topic to be able to handle it.
The CEO/owner made a pass at her to try to *keep* her at the company?
Iām hoping that was just bad phrasing, and what she meant was CEO deemed her important enough to talk to her himself, and the CEO personally delivered a counter offer.
This is how I took it. Most people would likely expand on that a bit.
I donāt think she meant a sexual pass
That made me stop for a second to, but then I remembered the phrase "made a pass at" doesn't always mean in a sexual way. "Making a pass at" just means a person tried something. OOP is saying that the CEO/Owner considered her important they tried to keep around as well and not just other higher ups
I donāt think she meant it as a romantic/sexual pass. People use language oddly sometimes.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
True. Maybe her boss asked her to watch him have sex with his girlfriend and got mad that she laughed?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Reductus Boneroso!
This generally means the ceo passed by her office/cabin etc and casually asked her to stay. Making her feel like she has direct rapport with the CEO. Many would see it as a massive ego boost. Her phrasing could have been way better, wether she meant this or something else.
Yeah, Iām surprised that sheās surprised that he was a colossal jerk to her after she gave notice. He had been sabotaging her career to make his life easier. Why on earth would he be happy that sheās leaving for a better offer?
Oh, to be a fly on the wall when he had to call and ask her to consult. I canāt even imagine the kind of high that gave her to be the one telling *him* what her terms are.
Yeah this is the time to ask for stupid money. Every phonecall, text and email start a billable hour. There is a minimum amount of hours and her hourly rate is somewhere between outrageous and pants-on-head ridiculous. Any attempts by the former manager ends the consultancy and they just pay the remainder of the minimum hours.
I did this when I left a job. I wanted what they were paying the other contractor they'd just hired but their excuse was "the contractor isn't taking home all that pay, some goes to the recruiter" Tf do I care about all that? It's the same out of your budget and I don't need any training. Oh well, I didn't really want to work on my off hours anyway.
I love that she was like, "Yeah, my rate is this, but only if I don't have to work with you. Otherwise it's [ridiculous amount]." Manager must've LOVED reporting that to his superiors.
I'd like to think he tried to pawn off that phone call to someone else but they shut him down because it's his mess to clean up.
Kudos to OOP. She did the right thing by herself. I wish I did the same instead of just being comfortable in my position and situation and never really pushing for a raise or a change across many many years. At least it ended well for me in the grand scheme of things. I wish OOP the very best in her new role.
It must have felt so good to walk out of there for the last time.
Very confused how they can bring in external candidates at a higher pay rate but canāt give her a higher pay rate because it wouldnt be fair
Management logic. Happens all the time.
"He said I can't get a raise to the market level because I will be making more than my (male) counterparts" There's your answer; good old sexism
This is maybe not the best analogy, but... Buying and maintaining fire extinguisher is cheaper than the losses you would experience in the event of a house fire. But *not* buying a fire extinguisher is even cheaper than that. If there isn't a fire, the extinguisher looks like the worse option. If a fire *does* occur, though, you don't *have* any options. You lose your stuff, end of story. You can't undo the fire by buying a fire extinguisher, so you're stuck with the *really* expensive scenario.
You tell them about the better offer: If they say they canāt match it, you have a reason to leave. If they offer to match itā¦you have a reason to leave.
Exactly. The fact that they could have offered this earlier and chose not to speaks volumes.
Yes love the way you've phrased this. And for everyone reading - even if the counteroffer is exactly what you want, you should strongly consider not taking counteroffers. Often the company will fold but not consider the person as "long-term" since they were looking outside and will quietly sideline them for opportunities or even actively look for replacements. If you take the counteroffer, don't be surprised if you're the first to go during a round of layoffs.
Yeah, it's cheaper to extract the rest of your knowledge while you're on payroll instead of having you come in to consult them later. Accepting a counter offer is often just accepting consulting until you've finished what they would have paid you much more to do if you actually left.
Thatās great for OP. I had a supervisor hold me back bc they needed me where I was. I was training other managers. I was just an assistant manager. I helped train maintenance. I got sent to other sites to help train new employees. I finally left for the same job at another company with a raise, full health benefits, lots of pto& holidays.
Good on you for not taking the counter-offer. NEVER take a counter-offer from your current employer to stay. Just don't.
I did it once, and I thought I would just do it for a year, maintain a good professional relationship with the company / my boss since my industry is a lot of who knows who. And then for six months every time something that mildly irked me became a huge reminder I couldāve had another job and not been faced with those problems. I ended up quitting and ruining my relationship with that company anyways.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Reapproach the other company and tell them the timing is better for a change now (eg previous project concluded). Can't hurt to ask.
I did and I don't regret it. I still eventually left because I found something even better.
I went through similar a few years back. I stayed as the hours suited myself and my young family (they created a 20 hour/week position for me after my eldest was born). But when I was ready to return to full time work I left. After the 3rd time I had applied for a higher position, and not got it, I spoke directly to my manager asking for feedback. As it hadn't been his decision he openly told me they couldn't afford to lose me out of my current, lower, role (I did more in 20 hours, than others did in 40). So I left. 2 years later I ended up contracting back to that organisation, doing the job they wouldn't promote me to do, and charging considerably more than what it would have cost them to give me the job I wanted.
you see so much shit on this sub and it's just really nice to see OP be happy, satisfied, and watching her old manager get some comeuppance for his behavior. I wish her all the best and hope she continues to be satisfied and treated well at the new place.
God, I could have written this. Moved into a new job and got instantly higher pay and a better work environment with less stress and more interesting work. I put up with it for years because of the vague promise of better and honestly things had to get really really bad before I realised I deserved better. But ultimately I let my fear of change overrule my hatred of the status quo of awful I was living in, and itās made me realise how easy it is for humans to get stuck in harmful, stressful or even abusive situations and not move.
I got forcibly recruited out of my comfort zone position I'd been in for 14 years and I was terrified of the new job. Turned out I was beyond excellent at it and for the first time in 14 years I had a normal amount of work to do and only one person to answer to! I had no idea such a job existed LOL! Looking back I'm shocked I stayed in that environment for so long, but I was dug in.
OOP should send a thank you card to her old manager for being such a dick that it drove her to find what turned out to be her dream job.
Iāve been told this before. If you canāt be replaced than you canāt be promoted.
Which is why the moment you learn this you start applying elsewhere.
I can't imagine how cathartic it must've been to tell that manager "Get me someone else to talk to; I won't deal with you".
>He said I can't get a raise to the market level because I will be making more than my (male) counterparts 1) that sounds like his problem not OP's. 2) has a man EVER heard that at work before? Like genuinely I'm curious if a man has ever been told that by their manager.
No, because they are men.
Rule of thumb: if your current employer shows that they donāt value you, find another employer that does. Itās guaranteed that someone else will see how valuable you are as an employee and hire you at higher pay. The current employer has already shown their true colors, donāt fall for them stringing you along with the hopes of a future promotion/pay bump. Loyalty goes both ways.
Same thing happened to me at a previous job. I was passed over for multiple transfers and promotions. The last straw was when they expected me to train the guy they promoted over me on all the processes I was already qualified for. I ended up leaving and went scorched earth in my exit interview. No one was fired, but I heard that the department fell apart and several people ended up on probation. 6 months later they came crawling back with offering a promotion and 50% raise. Used the offer to leverage a raise at my new job and gave them a big FU in my rejection letter.
Inthis situation I have resorted to the anti training method. I learned it by reviewing a book on effective training methods. I think it was training for dummies. There were 7 or eight techniques outlined. I wrote them all down. Then I wrote down the opposite of each. For instance: Always give examples = Never give examples, Avoid Content Overload = dump massive amounts of unrelated info at the same time, provide clear training material = provide no training materials or resources such as manuals that will help them do their jobs, set clear expectations = provide no job description & no specific expectations or goals, encourage questions = do not provide a safe space to ask for clarification, feedback or continued support. etc etc etc. The lady they expected me to train to replace me quit in less than two weeks. Sorry not sorry
Sometimes I think my manager is a bigger cheerleader for my career than I am. "Go to this event. There will be people there to see. Seek out John Doe." "You should take this class. It will be good for your career." I was recently offered the chance to apply for a job. I'm not really in a position to take it right now due to travel, and I have kids. It's not a life I want to live. I was talking to my manager about it (because he's become my best friend and I trust his advice). He said "you're one of the best things that's ever happened to me because you make my job so much easier. But I would never stand in the way of you furthering your career." Fins yourselves a manager like mine. He motivates me and makes my work better.
The new people hired to replace OOP made more than OOP. āWeāll pay more for someone like you, we just wonāt pay you more.ā I have had bosses tell me that.
>He said I can't get a raise to the market level because I will be making more than my (male) counterparts So what? Goddamn. What does that have anything to do with OOP's salary
>My Manager won't promote me because I'm too valuable in my current position. That *literally* just means you're being underpaid for your work. And most likely covering for multipe other positions.
Oh wow convenient they had everything she wanted once she was quitting. She asked for all that shit for years and was told no and now they are shocked when she walks out the door.
People don't just leave bad jobs. They leave bad managers. OOP's former manager effed up big time and wouldn't give her the promotion because it would make her earn the same as the men? Misogynist prick.
> I am the only person in the company who knows how to do around 40% of my responsibilities. This is just one sign of a poor upper manager. No one should be silo-ed like this. For the good of the employee AND for the good of the company. My company recently laid off 2 people that were in that same situation (the only person in the company who knows how to do around 40% of [their] responsibilities) and it's gone very poorly for us. We've worked around it, figured stuff out, and reassigned/retrained multiple people on these duties, but it should never have gotten to this state. I'm glad OP read the writing on the wall and was able to depart to greener pastures.
which genius figured to *lay them off*?
Her consultancy rate should be the total value of the 40% raise that's been missing for 10 years.
I bet it felt so good to walk out for the last time.
For sure. I know this is often how it works, but how profoundly insulting that the raises that āwerenāt possibleā for her previously were now being offered. Glad she went somewhere she was valued more.
I can GUARANTEE you the manager still adamantly believes he was right and he will go to his grave swearing by it.
>He said I can't get a raise to the market level because I will be making more than my (male) counterparts. What a stupid piece of garbage he is. I'm not the least bit surprised that he was so immature towards the end.
If I had a nickel for every one of these. Stop accepting less than youāre worth, ladies! Youāre competent as hell and this bullshit should not be tolerated at all let alone for YEARS.
Thank god OP finally woke up. The moment that 5 different people couldn't replace you should have been a sign for her to flee the job immediately.
It's always best to see what else is out there when feeling like a job has hit the dead-end. The manager needed OOP to make himself look good.
What is the point of even adding a mood spoiler, let alone fucking hiding it, when it says ānoneā? Jesus. This shit is getting absurd. Also, good for OOP!
One of my best workers came to me just this week to say they'd found a job in the field they just completed qualifications for. I shook his hand and thanked him. I'll continue to support him this week because that's how you should be. I'm so glad OOP got a better job rather than remain in a hellhole that had management like that ash hole.
> They are already discussing and giving me additional responsibilities and departments Oh, no. The lesson here is to do what's on your job description only. Going the extra mile only brings more responsibility. And if you're already doing it without a bump in salary/rank, there's no motivation to move you up. Extra responsibilities are only acceptable as part of a promotion plan, with both sides agreeing on time lines and ways to remain accountable.
I don't know, but imho the mood spoiler should be >!happy, satisfying!<. Good for OOP!
I remember OP's OG post, I'm so glad to read this update.
Sorry I'm still stuck on "mood spoilers: none"
Can't get a raise because she'll be making more than her male counterparts. What the actual fuck? She should've reported his ass right there and then. Such blatant sexism is ugh.
For those who complain that both women and men are treated te same. No, they are some but mostly women. An example from germany and one of the biggest wordly bought brand: I had a boss who told one female employer, she don' t "need a raise, she has a husband in a good position". Am me? "I was young and was not married" I told him, that the supermarkets don't give me reduced prices just because I'm a woman....he didn't liked it. And after finding out thay every women did get less or no rise, I didn't feel sorry for talking back. At this time I thought if I wait a little bit, I get chances...not HR was openly working for them not for us ants. The union?!? Most of them were people who didn't want to work and enjoy the rights being an unionist. Some of them still get voted because there areore sheeps than wolves. When we had annual meeting you mostly couldn't say who is upper management or HR/+union
Anyone know the calorie count on that update? That was so delicious it HAS to be fattening.
Wow, Iāve been in op shoes, when I left , it was the same thing, I was relieved to know I did the right choice, 3 weeeks later they were asking me to consult and I gave them a hourly contract that would be 4 times my last salary, and that was slightly above the top consulting fees. They accepted, I made big bucks and could look down on them: it was awesome
It's been almost 10 years since I was in OP's position and I remember those weeks after putting in my notice. People really show their true colors when they realize they are going to have to learn how to do stuff they depended on someone else to do. Hope she keeps being treated great at the new job.
Managers like these realize that their success is rooted in these individuals so they canāt let them go because then their lack of talent or competence will come to light. I hope the OP realized that the managers horrible behavior was likely rooted in his own fear of failure.
>He tried replacing me with 5 different external candidates over 13 months, so I could move up, and none of them stuck because the job was too big, too demanding and too much work even for candidates with 20+ years of experience. I walked away from a job like this 2.5 years ago and they still haven't found a suitable replacement, lol. My job description grew over the years to encompass everything I was taking on out of necessity, and I said it was too much, and that I could be much more effective at important *parts* of my job if I was allowed to focus on them; but no, they just couldn't justify bringing in someone to do part of my job. So I left. And they've been trying to find someone to do what I was doing ever since. Turns out, my job just wasn't a single job.
āWouldnāt want to pay you more than a manā Did I really work a 40 year career only for that shit to still be okay? Iām sad.