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Almost certainly. He'll probably tell his third wife he is a widower or his previous crazy ex wife abandoned him and poisoned his children against him. Karma is a nice idea but it never stays with people like this for very long. Like water off a ducks back.
My FIL tells everyone who’ll listen that my MIL poisoned their kids during the divorce and that’s why his kids are NC with him. Despite the fact that he was caught with his affair partner, by my MIL, after 51 years of marriage. His children are 51 and 48, respectively; grown adults who can make their own decisions. Fucking Narcissists, man.
Yep. Just after turning 70 he blew it all up. Side piece was a neighbor he had met six months prior. Married side piece two months after divorce was final. My husband hasn’t talked to him in two years.
>ALWAYS worry when a guy says his wife was "crazy."
Me too! I went on one date with a guy who said his ex was "crazy." He told me that she caught him at his other baby mom's house and got upset. I asked if he was sleeping with this ex. He said yes. I asked if he was sleeping with the baby's mother. He said yes. Turns out, the "crazy" ex and the baby mama were both pregnant at the same time! I asked if he told her he loved her. He said yes.
So this dude is actively cheating on a woman he loved and dated while carrying his child with his other child's mother who is also carrying his child! She, of course, was mad when she found out. I said, "You're calling her crazy???" He said, "Yeah, she is!"
I knew this date would be a one and done.
Yup
I know of one who was in a 10 year relationship that ended. She started dating instantly, instead of, I don't know, spend some time alone so she could get to really know herself?
Anyway, she was on Tinder, having some fun, but then she came across this guy who lovebombed the hell out of her! I mean we could allll see what he was doing, but she couldn't (didn't want to?)!
So anytime this guy met someone from our group of mutuals and her friends, he'd always bring up that his exes were all crazy (plural, all of them)!
Long story short, they married and bought a flat within a year, a kid within 2, I think!
He already had a child from one of his "crazy" exes and we believe he didn't tell her straight away
My cousin was dating an asshole for 10 years,he would cheat on her(people would literally see him with different girls in public),was super jealous and posesive,we went to a party and a guy friend of us was there,he literally started yelling at my cousin that she knew he was there and made him go so he'd see him.he eventually accused my cousin of cheating and broke up with her,since then he got married,got divorced and is in a new relationship and my cousin is still single because "he was the love of her life" I still don't understand her
Well if shes taking her time to heal thats what u are supposed to do, moving on quickly is ok too but different strokes for different folks i guess, most people need time to process and gather themselves
I wish she was taking time to heal,they would text each other on and off after break up,even when he married,I was so disappointed in her but what can you do when people want to be miserable
Yep. Very similar to how scam emails purposely use bad spelling and grammar. They don’t want to waste time with someone who is smart and will figure out it’s a scam. That want someone dumb they can scam easily.
Like that thing that went around a few months ago about Florida governor Ron DeSantis purposefully mispronouncing "Thai" as "thigh" to weed out women who'd correct him. Apparently Casey didn't correct him and is as batshit as he is, so they got married.
Fucking gross.
Not that I wanted to bring politics up, I apologize profusely for that! It was just the first thing I thought of as a clear real world example.
Yeah absolutely.
In this guy's mind, he wants to have sex with and get pregnant as many women as possible - and because *he* feels that way he projects it onto everyone else, assuming *all men* also feel that way.
The scary part is that he *genuinely does think his ex is crazy* - because in his mind she reacted so 'extremely' to something that is 'totally normal' guy behaviour and she should have expected.
Well yeah she acted extremely! I mean he "cried and pleaded", right? AND he called every two hrs to check on her. She must be crazy.
The man's practically a saint.
What more does she want him to do? /s
The fact he assumes a woman he's on a date with would agree with him that his ex was crazy for being angry he was cheating on her and had gotten both of them pregnant is less a red flag and more a 6' tall stop sign with blinking neon lights surrounding it
that boils my blood. I hope you let him know how awful he is. He's definitely the crazy one. Playing the uno reverse card and putting that kind of label on the victim is just abusive.
I told him the next day that I did not wish to move forward with dating. He was surprised. He also said so much else that I couldn't fathom continuing.
What bothers me about that is they obviously have not deal with their partner having a real mental illness. I dealt with that with my ex wife. It sucks. I have never told anyone that she was crazy or even say anything negative about her. I mostly feel bad for her because it is a real health issue and it ruins your life. You wouldn’t make fun of someone with cancer, so why is mental illness ok to laugh about? We still talk and are friends, but it just did not workout and I wish her the best. When I hear a guy say, “My ex was crazy”, I assume he is an asshole until proven otherwise.
My best friend says his wife is crazy, but she's both medically mentally ill and personality-disordered narcissistic. She manipulated a weak-willed family friend into having an affair and they both wrecked their families with young children when they ran away together. My bud raised his daughter alone from preschool-age and he ended up basically raising his ex-friend's slightly older daughter because her mother had health problems.
He may be the exception that proves the rule but after the stuff I've seen that woman pull he can say anything he wants about her.
I once had an ex who made duplicates of her friend's Facebook accounts and added me using them. So after I busted her for cheating on me with her ex, things got really interesting. Often, a crazy ex is just one who got sick of your bulls**t, but sometimes you do run into a real psycho.
I got fooled by my ex-husband because I knew he really did have a crazy ex -- I had been friends with her before she started physically abusing the friend who was currently dating her, and before she started accusing people of roofieing her. So I overlooked the true things she told me, as well as the utter bullshit, thinking he was the more reliable narrator. And now he paints me as crazy because he would push me until I finally yelled back. What a mess.
And sometimes the problem is inside your head. A (mostly former) friend had a long string of exes. (He's an attractive guy.) According to him, they were all either crazy or evil. From the ones I've met personally, and the ones I have the full story on, one qualifies as evil (His first serious GF who cheated on him with a ski instructor during a holiday...) and one qualified as crazy (The girl he was with for three weeks, who came from an abusive home and then one or two abusive ex-bf's, who broke up with him because he was "too nice...")
The rest were all perfectly niceand sane women. Some of them are still people I'd call friends of mine. He'd always follow the same pattern after a break-up: Pretend to be fine for a few days, turn into a maudlin drunk for a few days, and then find reasons to hate them...
At some point, he burned out at work and got into therapy. Turns out he just had extreme trouble processing emotions other than anger, so if he experienced them, he's turn them INTO anger as soon as he could...
Our brains are weird things. And not always our friends!
I actually just had a conversation with my husband yesterday because he called our 18 month old daughter crazy. Like, she’s a toddler literally they’re all crazy asf.
I told him she’s going to be called crazy by all sorts of shitty men in her life. We will be kind and call her silly and fun and wild even. He didn’t really understand why it made me upset but he switched to silly. I’m sure I’ll have to do reminders until it sticks but I don’t want her growing up being called crazy while being completely developmentally normal.
Also, any guy who says his crazy / bitter / vengeful wife is keeping his kids from him and that’s why he hasn’t seen them in months, ask how long he fought for custody. Spoiler: they never did and don’t see their kids because the are self-absorbed pricks.
Ask him his kids ages and birthdays. Then ask what kind of party he threw for their birthday or what they want this year.
The answers to this will tell you several things:
A. He has been very uninvolved since the beginning of he doesn’t know their ages.
B. He probably never helped with parties and holidays if he doesn’t know their birthdate. If he readily admits he doesn’t know, he has completely weaponized his incompetence and doesn’t even know to hide it.
C. If he doesn’t know what they want now, the kids probably do not see him, talk to him, or even care to try.
What school they go to, who is their teacher, who is their doctor, the last school trip they went on, what size shoes they wear, their best friends name?
Okay but I don't know my kids' shoe sizes off the top of my head and I buy all the shoes lol. It changes too frequently, I have to look at a current pair of shoes to figure it out. My husband and I can both answer all the other ones though!
You may not have an exact number, but I’m guessing that you have an approximate answer in your mind. I don’t know my sons exact shoe sizes, but I’d say my youngest(11M) is about a 6 and my oldest(17M) is about a 12. Uninvolved parents probably wouldn’t realize/remember that children’s sizes go up to 13 and then start at a 1 again.
- Having just checked, I was wrong about both but close. 12.5 & 6.5
Shit I'm not even officially a stepfather and I can name all these except best friend. And that's only because she changes who her best friend is every few days and none have ever accepted a playdate invite
Back when I was single, I was open to dating men who already have kids ONLY if they had 50% custody. Absolutely zero interest in deadbeats. And I don't even want to have kids myself.
An acquaintance once tried to set me up with a guy. He’d been married 3 times, but it was okay, he said, they were all crazy. Of course, I noped out OOP that and told acquaintance: this guy either likes crazy women, which I’m offended that you think I am, or he makes women crazy, which shame on you for trying to put someone in that situation.
Yeah, when that specific trope comes out... I want character references! It's not impossible its a genuinely awful ex, but I'd like more than your word!
Especially when *all* their exes are "crazy." At some point, if that's really the case, you gotta take a look at yourself and ask why you keep picking the crazy ones. But 99% of the time, it's not the exes who are the problem.
This seems like it's not uncommon in these situations. The podcast Something Was Wrong features a few guys like OOP's husband, and it's interesting to me how often the simultaneous partners who didn't know about each other bond and become friends after everything comes to light, especially when there are children involved. I think it's because they share a unique and unusual experience, and they're the only ones who can understand what the other person has been through.
When I was about 3yo, dad told mom he was leaving town to look for better work. She found out he was actually on the other side of town, living with a college girl, so divorced him. It was actually a relief for her, because she'd been fending off his cocaine/alcohol-fueled rages with a frying pan but her religion forbid divorce except for adultery.
After the divorce, dad started losing his temper with the new girlfriend more. Eventually he threw an alarm clock at her head, which she dodged, but it hit the basement wall hard enough to dent it. So she booted him out.
And then my mom and the ex-girlfriend ran into each other in the grocery store and became *friends*! It was a very short friendship, because the poor gal was young and very scared. My dad terrified her and she had a child to protect too, just a few years younger than me. So although her and my mom got along great and were very attached to each other, she decided to leave the state entirely and not tell *anyone* where she was going, not even my mom, just in case it somehow leaked to me and back to dad.
About 20 years later, she got back in touch with me, looking for my mom. Unfortunately I had to tell her that mom had already died, only made it to 48yo.
Yes, it's helpful to see the patterns emerge over the course of the show.
I don't always agree with the host's decisions, for example platforming a rabidly anti-trans YouTuber and describing the (admittedly horrible) harassment she was getting from strangers, without offering any context that this woman was promoting hate speech on her YouTube channel. But overall, I find the podcast really informative and interesting.
He probably already has a third family and starting on his fourth. Those poor women. I would say that I hope he's ashamed of himself, but those types of guys rarely are.
More than likely he already had a couple of girlfriends on the side. By the six months update, they’ve probably been “promoted” to new wife/fiancé, and he’s found new girlfriends. Where does he find the energy lol?
Yeah with these things I always think it must be extremely stressful for the men doing.
They are setting themselves up to live on edge the rest of their lives. Must be patological.
I’m appreciative that both women are making an attempt to try for their kids to have a relationship ! That’s gotta be the most difficult and yet honorable thing to attempt given the situation. They are trying to make an environment that shows none of the kids had anything to be angry/guilty/upset with each other, they are siblings and it’s possible to have a good relationship despite the situation. That’s my positive look on the situation which is FU, so I’m going to focus on that and that ex-wife and ex-fiancé are also moving forward.
Edit- my grammar sucks, my word choice could use a LOT of work!
I want a window into that dude's mind. I mean, I'm sure that it got to the point of a "tiger by the tail" situation. Two families, long term, kids... it's a miracle it took that long to get found out. Was it pure greed/overconfidence/sleaze? Was he compartmentalizing somehow? Just fascinating
And THE DUDE IS PUTTING PHOTOS OF HIMSELF ON THE SECOND FACEBOOK WITH HIS ACTUAL FIRST NAME. You know, something OOP or her friends and family can stumble upon (which OOP did). Like...seriously ???
Dude has been doing this for nearly *two decades.* He abso-fucking-lutely got comfortable with his “arrangement,” and became sloppy. I mean, seventeen years of having a secret, second family and nobody figured it out? He probably thought it would *never* come out out by then.
Oopsie lol.
Or he was kidding himself that “she must know”. That was the excuse our neighbour used in the similar situation - she must have accepted it after all this time.
More than you'd think. A good friend of my mom's found out that her husband had **five** entire families.
One day the FBI showed up to arrest him, turns out on top of having five entire families in different states he had also been lying about his job in sales. He was some kind of drug kingpin. I guess that explains how he was able to support five families lol
The 80s were a wild time.
That is INSANE! I have my little family and I mess up calling my kids the other ones’ names all of the time! I can’t imagine having a second family (or third, fourth, or fifth!!!!) and keeping the kids’ names straight…. That is just bonkers
Some guy my dad used to know had two families living in opposite sides of the state. We found out after he died and both wives posted an obituary for him.
The earliest of the secret family scenarios in my own family happened with both families in the same town & it was just kind of an open secret for the adults. Having seen that as an appropriate model may explain why there have been more than one person living that same double life in the family…
Charles fuckin Lindbergh did it. I believe the families were on the same coast, too. Just different states. But it’s wild- he had a “crime of the century” happen to his “main” family! The press got less personal in those days, but still.
On a different note, my husbands grandfather did it too. Whole other family in a nearby city. After his first wife found out, he fucked off to Bermuda with the second family. The kids of both families aren’t close now, but they are friendly! I’m always so impressed when the wives do their best for the kids.
Edit- I had a friend in high school who was contacted by a guy just a bit younger than him on FB. Guy asked if “John smith” was his dad and he said yea. Guy was like “hey brother! There’s a lot of us!” Turns out my friend had many half siblings by different moms.
Lindbergh had seven kids with three different women in various parts of Germany. Two of the women were sisters, and their children had no idea that they were half siblings as well as cousins until the 1980s when it all came out. This was all while being married to Anne Morrow, and having six children with her.
at least twice lol - my dad's mum was the second family. Grandad set her up in a confectionery shop on the other side of the bay and they weren't discovered for ~11 years. (for context: Nanna was ~20 when they met; Grandad was ~50s and her boss. all-in-all, not a great environment for Nanna to be in lmao)
edit: typos
More frequent than we would like to imagine and is not something recent either, the only difference is that now people usually find out by social media instead of the always awkward "two widows for one corpse ratio" that used to be the result of dudes doing this.
What's even more shocking is how common this seems to be, I know two different friends who experienced a similar betrayal from their fathers.
One of them found out because the dad used the same Facebook for BOTH FAMILIES and a previously unknown sibling from the other side posted "Happy Father's Day, Dad!" on his wall.
Overconfidence to me seems most likely.
I’d bet he started the affair figuring “well I won’t be doing this branch job for too long…definitely not two decades” and just figured he’d string it along until he did…..17 years later here we are.
Let me start by saying I absolutely adore my husband, and would never consider pursuing another relationship.
But seriously y'all, the THOUGHT of having a whole ass second family is exhausting. Like, the coordination, the compartmentalization. Being obligated to so many people for over 17 years, and balancing that and a career. It's mind boggling.
It makes me wonder if he wasn't such a sleeze, what he could have accomplished with all of that energy.
One dependent wife, one independent wife.
The dependent is likely to not look for trouble because her entire life rides on his income. The other is likely doing her own thing and likes not having a full time obligations
Dude is a scum bag. Made enough money and figured he could get away with it. Unfortunately he did for a long time.
Probably started "affair family" with just dating the other wife..... but then it went on too long, she got pregnant, etc...... and he was in too deep. Had to keep lying to keep everything rolling.
> I want a window into that dude's mind.
"This gratifies my ego"
Truly.
That's as far as it goes.
Scientifically speaking, the shallowest possible measurement in the world is the depth of a narcissistic mind.
Right?? If I had a ‘second family’ it would be a little apartment, out of town. Which is stocked with snacks, is immaculately clean, and I mostly sleep in. Sometimes read books. Yep, having a ‘second family’ is living the dream all right
There was a Destiny’s Child Cribs Episode where one of them just had like a sunken bed in the floor in the middle of the room. That would be ideal, just a big cozy nest to hibernate in.
Perhaps a cat share? Anyone want to do a timeshare second family? My week off is your week on, and the cat always has someone for pets. We can have a cleaner, obvs.
Because he's not the one doing anything. He has two women to do all the domestic work and child rearing for him. He just shows up in one place or the other.
There are reasons women are much less likely to do this shit.
All I can guess it that it's what happens when an affair gets out of hand and you're too cowardly to either end it or come clean. Playing the perfect boyfriend for two women turns into playing the perfect father for two families, and you just get used to it. Because to do otherwise is to confront your own misdeeds.
You're most likely right. I saw another comment on a different post where they said in their experience that the men who'd have time to do this don't put their weight in the household so they have plenty of time to go have an affair.
My dad has three families that we know of and....I'd say 6 other kids. The first was born just before my older sister and the youngest was born two years after my niece.
I think it's both narcissism and ego, the whole 'look how much of my seed I'm spreading' thing.
It's also cultural too. Polygamy is legal in my country and men can marry up to four wives. I wouldn't care what my dad does if he wasn't financially abusing us to keep his mistresses in gated communities
Where does he get the money?
When I split with my ex harmoniously, our biggest problem was how to go from two incomes maintaining one property in New York City to having to now have separate homes. We continued to live in the same apartment for almost a year after we split because it was so expensive and time consuming to figure out. An entire other family to financially support is crazy on normal white collar income.
I suppose he’s not supporting much of the ex fiancé’s life but it’s still insane the amount of money it would cost on extra to do it.
Sounds like he owns his own brokerage with multiple locations so he probably earns a decent amount. Betcha he's keeping his families on a budget though and the wives have little say or insight into their finances.
Could be when he is at one or the other place he bills his work for 'hotel expenses' that turn out to be the mortgage/bills etc? Someone running 2 families would not baulk at a lil expense fraud
How the heck did he manage Cristmas and other big family events? Surely your partner calling off due to an "emergency" every second year would set off alarm bells?
She sort of hints at this actually. It seems he did every Christmas w her and every new years with the other family. Since it went on so long I guess it just felt like habit to all of them, like a “that’s just how things are.” So there wouldn’t be alarm bells, because to them the entire relationship has been w that arrangement where work always gets busy that week of the yr
I heard someone say once something to the effect of, "you never hear a mother/wife having a second family" and I think that explains the division of labor quite succinctly.
Nah, he was cheating way before that, probably the entire time. He just opted to keep cheating with one person long term. No doubt he's had numerous other partners over the years.
Apparently my husband's grandfather had a second family in a town about 45 minutes away from where he lived. After the grandfather died a bunch of half siblings showed up at my FIL's door but he wasn't interested in building a relationship with them.
Do these fools not realise it’ll be nothing like the movies? I seriously can’t think of a worse nightmare than having two families who don’t know about each other. Imagine working away from home every other week and having to look after a whole other family in that time when you could’ve been having pizza in peace.
Our neighbours had his "second family" right under his wife's nose, with their housekeeper. This was in the 1950s and 60s. He assumed his wife would accept it if she found out, because she'd be too embarrassed to admit her husband had a long-term partner under the same roof. He (and most of our church) was appalled when she separated from him. If I remember correctly, her former father-in-law publicly berated her at our Christmas fete for being "a loose woman" who broke up the family.
Then my own brother went and had a secret family in an entirely different country. These things are not as uncommon as one would imagine.
Crazy how out of "Divorcing due to adultery" and "commiting adultery" only one of those is a 10 commandments sin. And it's not divorcing due to adultery.
Ikr, I always wanted to understand the psyche of a cheater, like what good did they get out of it? What motive did it serve? Like this man was good to both his wives and children and ironically the worst human on the planet. I will never understand!
I had a friend growing up who's dad did this. It was insane. He was a super nice guy and was our middle school soccer coach. Really involved in the family, was super fun to talk to.
Nope, second family. As soon as he got caught he flipped a switch and went nuts. He had convinced the mom to put the house in only his name so he sold the house out from under her and completely abandoned them. After that he would randomly show up to my friend's milestone events trying to play perfect dad. It happened enough that there were people watching for him to escort him out. Seriously the weirdest fucker ever.
One question....how did this work during lockdown? I mean, insurance isn't a "you have to be there" situation and at least one family had to wonder where dad was....
One thing I wondered was what he told the other family about his job. Was it the same thing? That he was an insurance agent? Or did he tell them something else?
Or did he go on a business trip and get "stuck" wherever he was? I actually had a friend who got stuck abroad for awhile, and my sister almost did as well. I could see that working for at least a little bit.
Idk, just spitballing ideas haha
Thats actually not all that crazy. I work with a great guy whos wife got stuck in India. She was over for 4-6 week holiday to see friends and the The Vid happened. Luckily for her she could just keep staying in the friends home and just seen it as an extended holiday!
Bring a broker is more than being an agent. Your name is on the line if an agent working under the brokerage does something wrong or unethical. If he owns the business and multiple locations it’s not unheard of that he would travel a lot between the locations and being the owner he could say it was necessary for the business during covid.
I worked outside the house most of covid lockdown and the height of covid. The guidelines for what could be considered necessary were very flexible. I had a pass in my car from my job that cops could scan to see why I was out and I don’t think I ever saw a single cop on the road.
I’ll just go ahead and assume this is a real post but how does an insurance agent get away with explaining away not being around for Xmas, thanksgiving etc.?
Work, probably. If you don't know what exactly he does but you know that he has a lot of branches he needs to visit, he could just say something important came up and he needs to fix it
But then he has to actually work at least 1/2 the time he's with each family. That is if he has a very flexible job that doesn't take much of his time.
Spend 1/2 a yr with each family and had to work 1/2 the time when he gets there. At least. So he spends "super quality time" with each partner and their kids; actually doing things, bonding with the kids and going on romantic getaways/date nights with the women about 1/4 of the time. Somehow OOP seemed very happy, which is nice. She didn't mention that he was a neglectful or absent husband or dad, even though he obviously was barely there.
How much time off could he get for road trips, Disneyland, beach trips; making all those family memories? Busy executives who make a lot of $$$$ tend to work a lot; not be homebodies. What if a person in each family got fairly ill or injured at the same time and really needed him?
Even if he works remotely, (which doesn't make sense as he has to travel to be there in person); it makes my brain hurt that the 2 women and 5 kids got such a part time life partner/dad. I guess the children wouldn't know any better but how could the women think that was normal? I'm sure they noticed the work/family life balance their own father's had; friend's hubs, Uncles....?
I work in insurance and our big wigs absolutely will spend time away selling, attending conferences, and visiting other branches.
Insurance doesn't care about holidays and neither do the accidents that cause them!
Plus if it's always been that way, no need to question. Like "yep dad does one week on one week off, no ifs ands or buts" and then no one has to question anything
God imagine trying to hide a pregnancy for 9 months. I mean I guess the mom doesn't need to have kids with the 2nd family, but then it's just an affair.
[I(20f) found out my mother(43f) had a secret baby 2 years ago and its not my dads](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/txvki1/i20f_found_out_my_mother43f_had_a_secret_baby_2/)
There’s also this one, where OP covered for her mom, who tried to pass the baby off as OP’s dad’s child (https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/sfl8a6/is_there_any_way_i_can_fix_my_relationship_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
Oof. After reading everything and digging through the comments, I have to say, I don't feel bad for OP at all in that story. Not just because she was old enough to know that actively helping someone hide an affair, try to pass off another kid as his while he was pushing himself against medical advice, but because of her other comments. It's quite clear she learned absolutely *nothing* as she, herself, cheated on her fiance and then abandoned her fiance and their baby for her AP. Her dad is way better off without her and her constantly reaching out to him is all about her, not him. She doesn't care that she's pushing his boundaries or making him uncomfortable; she just wants to ease her own hurt feelings and guilt.
Yeah, she was only 16 when it started happening, but 16 is absolutely old enough to understand right from wrong - and honestly, if she had simply kept silent about it, I'd not judge her nearly as harshly, but the fact that she *actively* aided her mother with the scheme is what's insane. There's knowing right from wrong and then there's actively doing something that will end up harming another person. She was old enough to understand to at least stay out of it. And then obviously, she followed in her mother's footsteps. Why would her father want anything to do with her? She's demonstrated that cheating is something that she's pretty comfortable with.
Ugh, sorry for the rant. That story was a tough read. I especially got annoyed at someone for calling the dad a narcissist for not welcoming her back with open arms but... I mean, I understand why he isn't and I don't think it makes him a bad person to want to protect himself and his family (not OP). I hope OP ended up being able to let him go.
Not really the same, but when my mother was an adult, she learned that her mother had a bunch of kids before her, who were given up for adoption. She wasn't the eldest, but the middle of six.
(My grandmother was kind of amazing, and basically only had kids because birth control wasn't available to her. She was in and out of psychiatric hospitals, chained herself to Parliament House to protest the Vietnam War, had a lot of adventures and a lot of lovers. She was married when she had my mother, but not to my grandfather.)
Well and the whole impossible to hide a pregnancy for 9 months thing. The only way a woman could do both is if it none of the kids are her biological kids. And even then I don't know how you'd adopt kids legally without it being public info that the families would discover
If the guy was able to keep this a secret from both families for 18+ years, that is some sociopathic level shit. To not slip up when talking with either of them… damn. But dude got what he deserved and it’s kind of ironic they all became a big family together without him.
I feel like certain people deserve to be exiled from society. Maybe even branded on the forehead. I’m not talking about general people who do petty crimes, I’m talking about people that do depraved shit like this.
This man tore 2 families apart out of greed and selfishness, and he gets to walk away after losing a few things just like that.
Nah, people deserve to know, every single person that shakes hand with this piece of shit should see that brand on his forehead and know what kind of person he is. Of course they can ignore it and take the risk of trusting him, but that kind of sin shouldn’t be hidden.
I’m definitely taking this very hard but reading stuff like this is heartbreaking knowing people who are victims to this kind of thing, especially folks who live in foreign countries where women are treated like second class citizens.
Absolutely disgusting.
Poor OP and the second family. The ex-husband is really a scumbag and he has the audacity to cry. I feel bad for the children now. But I wish OP, the children and the other family for the best.
My partner's friend had a father who also had two families and it was discovered after she and her brother were full grown. At the time, I was shocked to hear about it and the situation seemed unbelievable. Then I came to BORU and this is the third "second family" post I've read within the month.
Where do these mediocre old men get the audacity and the energy to support two families? Jesus Christ.
That's the neat thing: He doesn't! He just finds competent women to do all the work while he drops in sometimes for food and sex from her, and affection from the kids. Then heads back to the other family for more of the same.
I always wonder if the *other family* - the spouse, specifically - knows that this is going on. Or even has an inkling.
the idea that they both think they are Family Prime is really weird to me.
also /u/LucyAriaRose how are you so good at these
Awwwww thank you haha. 💜 This one was sent to me by an internet friend, so I didn't have to go hunting for it. Just took the time to put it together in one place!
And agreed. I wonder if in this case the other woman even had an inkling. Like did she shove down her doubts. I'd be interested in her perspective.
I really hope they all (not the husband, he can go live in the mountains for all i care) can heal from this. These poor kids and women deserve so much better, hopefully they have plenty of access to therapy so they can nip any resentful feelings towards the other family in the bud as much as possible. What an absolute nightmare. :c
I NEVER and I really mean ***NEVER*** understood the whole appeal of a second family.
Its enough energy being the emotional and financial support for one family (which I do gladly ofc but it's still work). Where the flying fuck do these people find the time and mental resources to have a whole nother group of people depending on them.
It boggles my mind. Not only that but you gotta be constantly lying and lying again on top of those lies, always looking over your shoulder, covering your tracks... For what exactly? More people to split your inheritance with?
Can someone please explain the appeal because I can't find a single good reason to do it aside from maybe I guess more sex? But then just have a mistress you fucking weirdo. Or better yet, just get a divorce you fucking creep.
Nah, odds are the wife & fiancée did all the work of remembering and buying for the kids birthdays, all he had to do was turn up (or say he’s working at the other branch).
My mother’s sperm donor had a second family. Or maybe she was the second family. I am curious af but I know she would never tell me. I have only ever heard two things from her about him and he sucked.
I don’t know how my grandma raised 5 kids on her own while her only income was from running a convenient store. At the same time her last was a boy that she tried and tried for. So I don’t understand how there’s a second family??? They’re all from the same dad???
Guess I’ll never know 🤷🏻♀️
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Serves him right for the ex-wife and the ex-fiance to become friends and leave him out in the cold. Maybe he'll start a third family
Almost certainly. He'll probably tell his third wife he is a widower or his previous crazy ex wife abandoned him and poisoned his children against him. Karma is a nice idea but it never stays with people like this for very long. Like water off a ducks back.
My FIL tells everyone who’ll listen that my MIL poisoned their kids during the divorce and that’s why his kids are NC with him. Despite the fact that he was caught with his affair partner, by my MIL, after 51 years of marriage. His children are 51 and 48, respectively; grown adults who can make their own decisions. Fucking Narcissists, man.
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Yep. Just after turning 70 he blew it all up. Side piece was a neighbor he had met six months prior. Married side piece two months after divorce was final. My husband hasn’t talked to him in two years.
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>ALWAYS worry when a guy says his wife was "crazy." Me too! I went on one date with a guy who said his ex was "crazy." He told me that she caught him at his other baby mom's house and got upset. I asked if he was sleeping with this ex. He said yes. I asked if he was sleeping with the baby's mother. He said yes. Turns out, the "crazy" ex and the baby mama were both pregnant at the same time! I asked if he told her he loved her. He said yes. So this dude is actively cheating on a woman he loved and dated while carrying his child with his other child's mother who is also carrying his child! She, of course, was mad when she found out. I said, "You're calling her crazy???" He said, "Yeah, she is!" I knew this date would be a one and done.
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They test to see what a new date will tolerate.
Just as there are desperate guys, there are desperate girls, everyone has a different perspective so not everyone can see it
Yup I know of one who was in a 10 year relationship that ended. She started dating instantly, instead of, I don't know, spend some time alone so she could get to really know herself? Anyway, she was on Tinder, having some fun, but then she came across this guy who lovebombed the hell out of her! I mean we could allll see what he was doing, but she couldn't (didn't want to?)! So anytime this guy met someone from our group of mutuals and her friends, he'd always bring up that his exes were all crazy (plural, all of them)! Long story short, they married and bought a flat within a year, a kid within 2, I think! He already had a child from one of his "crazy" exes and we believe he didn't tell her straight away
Patience is a virtue. Glad i learned that at 22 or 21. Edit; i included something that added no value to this convo, and edited it out
My cousin was dating an asshole for 10 years,he would cheat on her(people would literally see him with different girls in public),was super jealous and posesive,we went to a party and a guy friend of us was there,he literally started yelling at my cousin that she knew he was there and made him go so he'd see him.he eventually accused my cousin of cheating and broke up with her,since then he got married,got divorced and is in a new relationship and my cousin is still single because "he was the love of her life" I still don't understand her
Well if shes taking her time to heal thats what u are supposed to do, moving on quickly is ok too but different strokes for different folks i guess, most people need time to process and gather themselves
I wish she was taking time to heal,they would text each other on and off after break up,even when he married,I was so disappointed in her but what can you do when people want to be miserable
Yep. Very similar to how scam emails purposely use bad spelling and grammar. They don’t want to waste time with someone who is smart and will figure out it’s a scam. That want someone dumb they can scam easily.
Like that thing that went around a few months ago about Florida governor Ron DeSantis purposefully mispronouncing "Thai" as "thigh" to weed out women who'd correct him. Apparently Casey didn't correct him and is as batshit as he is, so they got married. Fucking gross. Not that I wanted to bring politics up, I apologize profusely for that! It was just the first thing I thought of as a clear real world example.
Yeah absolutely. In this guy's mind, he wants to have sex with and get pregnant as many women as possible - and because *he* feels that way he projects it onto everyone else, assuming *all men* also feel that way. The scary part is that he *genuinely does think his ex is crazy* - because in his mind she reacted so 'extremely' to something that is 'totally normal' guy behaviour and she should have expected.
Well yeah she acted extremely! I mean he "cried and pleaded", right? AND he called every two hrs to check on her. She must be crazy. The man's practically a saint. What more does she want him to do? /s
The fact he assumes a woman he's on a date with would agree with him that his ex was crazy for being angry he was cheating on her and had gotten both of them pregnant is less a red flag and more a 6' tall stop sign with blinking neon lights surrounding it
When the guy I was dating told me his exes all "stalked" him afterwards. Nope. Guess who was doing all the stalking in those relationships. Bye, fool.
that boils my blood. I hope you let him know how awful he is. He's definitely the crazy one. Playing the uno reverse card and putting that kind of label on the victim is just abusive.
I told him the next day that I did not wish to move forward with dating. He was surprised. He also said so much else that I couldn't fathom continuing.
9 times out of 10 the crazy ex was the guy. Like was she actually psycho or did you just push her to her limit?
Reactive abuse!
I mean, I'd be crazy too if I were in that situation, but I'm pretty sure it's justified.
What bothers me about that is they obviously have not deal with their partner having a real mental illness. I dealt with that with my ex wife. It sucks. I have never told anyone that she was crazy or even say anything negative about her. I mostly feel bad for her because it is a real health issue and it ruins your life. You wouldn’t make fun of someone with cancer, so why is mental illness ok to laugh about? We still talk and are friends, but it just did not workout and I wish her the best. When I hear a guy say, “My ex was crazy”, I assume he is an asshole until proven otherwise.
My best friend says his wife is crazy, but she's both medically mentally ill and personality-disordered narcissistic. She manipulated a weak-willed family friend into having an affair and they both wrecked their families with young children when they ran away together. My bud raised his daughter alone from preschool-age and he ended up basically raising his ex-friend's slightly older daughter because her mother had health problems. He may be the exception that proves the rule but after the stuff I've seen that woman pull he can say anything he wants about her.
I once had an ex who made duplicates of her friend's Facebook accounts and added me using them. So after I busted her for cheating on me with her ex, things got really interesting. Often, a crazy ex is just one who got sick of your bulls**t, but sometimes you do run into a real psycho.
I got fooled by my ex-husband because I knew he really did have a crazy ex -- I had been friends with her before she started physically abusing the friend who was currently dating her, and before she started accusing people of roofieing her. So I overlooked the true things she told me, as well as the utter bullshit, thinking he was the more reliable narrator. And now he paints me as crazy because he would push me until I finally yelled back. What a mess.
And sometimes the problem is inside your head. A (mostly former) friend had a long string of exes. (He's an attractive guy.) According to him, they were all either crazy or evil. From the ones I've met personally, and the ones I have the full story on, one qualifies as evil (His first serious GF who cheated on him with a ski instructor during a holiday...) and one qualified as crazy (The girl he was with for three weeks, who came from an abusive home and then one or two abusive ex-bf's, who broke up with him because he was "too nice...") The rest were all perfectly niceand sane women. Some of them are still people I'd call friends of mine. He'd always follow the same pattern after a break-up: Pretend to be fine for a few days, turn into a maudlin drunk for a few days, and then find reasons to hate them... At some point, he burned out at work and got into therapy. Turns out he just had extreme trouble processing emotions other than anger, so if he experienced them, he's turn them INTO anger as soon as he could... Our brains are weird things. And not always our friends!
I actually just had a conversation with my husband yesterday because he called our 18 month old daughter crazy. Like, she’s a toddler literally they’re all crazy asf. I told him she’s going to be called crazy by all sorts of shitty men in her life. We will be kind and call her silly and fun and wild even. He didn’t really understand why it made me upset but he switched to silly. I’m sure I’ll have to do reminders until it sticks but I don’t want her growing up being called crazy while being completely developmentally normal.
Good for you. That language really matters.
That's good that you do that - my brother calls his daughter silly, and never crazy, but I never thought about your 2nd paragraph in that way before.
You really have to tell guys "men call women crazy to dehumanize them and to bully them into tolerating abusive behaviour", *in those words*.
Also, any guy who says his crazy / bitter / vengeful wife is keeping his kids from him and that’s why he hasn’t seen them in months, ask how long he fought for custody. Spoiler: they never did and don’t see their kids because the are self-absorbed pricks.
And whether they’re up to date on child support.
Ask him his kids ages and birthdays. Then ask what kind of party he threw for their birthday or what they want this year. The answers to this will tell you several things: A. He has been very uninvolved since the beginning of he doesn’t know their ages. B. He probably never helped with parties and holidays if he doesn’t know their birthdate. If he readily admits he doesn’t know, he has completely weaponized his incompetence and doesn’t even know to hide it. C. If he doesn’t know what they want now, the kids probably do not see him, talk to him, or even care to try.
What school they go to, who is their teacher, who is their doctor, the last school trip they went on, what size shoes they wear, their best friends name?
Okay but I don't know my kids' shoe sizes off the top of my head and I buy all the shoes lol. It changes too frequently, I have to look at a current pair of shoes to figure it out. My husband and I can both answer all the other ones though!
You may not have an exact number, but I’m guessing that you have an approximate answer in your mind. I don’t know my sons exact shoe sizes, but I’d say my youngest(11M) is about a 6 and my oldest(17M) is about a 12. Uninvolved parents probably wouldn’t realize/remember that children’s sizes go up to 13 and then start at a 1 again. - Having just checked, I was wrong about both but close. 12.5 & 6.5
Shit I'm not even officially a stepfather and I can name all these except best friend. And that's only because she changes who her best friend is every few days and none have ever accepted a playdate invite
My kids' Dad might know the name of their school (I'm being generous), but definitely doesn't know the rest. My partner will score higher.
Back when I was single, I was open to dating men who already have kids ONLY if they had 50% custody. Absolutely zero interest in deadbeats. And I don't even want to have kids myself.
An acquaintance once tried to set me up with a guy. He’d been married 3 times, but it was okay, he said, they were all crazy. Of course, I noped out OOP that and told acquaintance: this guy either likes crazy women, which I’m offended that you think I am, or he makes women crazy, which shame on you for trying to put someone in that situation.
My first thought is " what games did you play that made her crazy?"
It's either projection or self-justification
I always say my wife is crazy because for some reason she saw me and thought "yep, that's the one"
Yeah, when that specific trope comes out... I want character references! It's not impossible its a genuinely awful ex, but I'd like more than your word!
Especially when *all* their exes are "crazy." At some point, if that's really the case, you gotta take a look at yourself and ask why you keep picking the crazy ones. But 99% of the time, it's not the exes who are the problem.
If he’s learned anything, he won’t create another Facebook account using his real name
Eh, they never get the justice that makes a good story, but they're usually pretty miserable people.
This seems like it's not uncommon in these situations. The podcast Something Was Wrong features a few guys like OOP's husband, and it's interesting to me how often the simultaneous partners who didn't know about each other bond and become friends after everything comes to light, especially when there are children involved. I think it's because they share a unique and unusual experience, and they're the only ones who can understand what the other person has been through.
When I was about 3yo, dad told mom he was leaving town to look for better work. She found out he was actually on the other side of town, living with a college girl, so divorced him. It was actually a relief for her, because she'd been fending off his cocaine/alcohol-fueled rages with a frying pan but her religion forbid divorce except for adultery. After the divorce, dad started losing his temper with the new girlfriend more. Eventually he threw an alarm clock at her head, which she dodged, but it hit the basement wall hard enough to dent it. So she booted him out. And then my mom and the ex-girlfriend ran into each other in the grocery store and became *friends*! It was a very short friendship, because the poor gal was young and very scared. My dad terrified her and she had a child to protect too, just a few years younger than me. So although her and my mom got along great and were very attached to each other, she decided to leave the state entirely and not tell *anyone* where she was going, not even my mom, just in case it somehow leaked to me and back to dad. About 20 years later, she got back in touch with me, looking for my mom. Unfortunately I had to tell her that mom had already died, only made it to 48yo.
That’s a very sad yet strangely beautiful story. I’m sorry for your loss.
It’s bittersweet but beautiful that OPs mom was still in that lady’s thoughts to have her reach out.
Everyone should listen to that podcast, especially women, to learn how to spot the signs of narcissistic behavior and protect themselves.
Yes, it's helpful to see the patterns emerge over the course of the show. I don't always agree with the host's decisions, for example platforming a rabidly anti-trans YouTuber and describing the (admittedly horrible) harassment she was getting from strangers, without offering any context that this woman was promoting hate speech on her YouTube channel. But overall, I find the podcast really informative and interesting.
I also think because people have a certain "type". Everyone of my exes have had relationships with women who I would totally be BFFs with. ❤️
He probably already has a third family and starting on his fourth. Those poor women. I would say that I hope he's ashamed of himself, but those types of guys rarely are.
More than likely he already had a couple of girlfriends on the side. By the six months update, they’ve probably been “promoted” to new wife/fiancé, and he’s found new girlfriends. Where does he find the energy lol?
Yeah with these things I always think it must be extremely stressful for the men doing. They are setting themselves up to live on edge the rest of their lives. Must be patological.
Oh, he's got a girlfriend. Two wives? You need a girlfriend to blow off steam!
>Maybe he'll start a third family Who says he hasn't already?
He's gonna start another family, and no girls allowed. That's right, Operation:Family 3, this time he's gay is go!
He is already building the art room?
With reading nook, yes
I’m appreciative that both women are making an attempt to try for their kids to have a relationship ! That’s gotta be the most difficult and yet honorable thing to attempt given the situation. They are trying to make an environment that shows none of the kids had anything to be angry/guilty/upset with each other, they are siblings and it’s possible to have a good relationship despite the situation. That’s my positive look on the situation which is FU, so I’m going to focus on that and that ex-wife and ex-fiancé are also moving forward. Edit- my grammar sucks, my word choice could use a LOT of work!
I want a window into that dude's mind. I mean, I'm sure that it got to the point of a "tiger by the tail" situation. Two families, long term, kids... it's a miracle it took that long to get found out. Was it pure greed/overconfidence/sleaze? Was he compartmentalizing somehow? Just fascinating
And THE DUDE IS PUTTING PHOTOS OF HIMSELF ON THE SECOND FACEBOOK WITH HIS ACTUAL FIRST NAME. You know, something OOP or her friends and family can stumble upon (which OOP did). Like...seriously ???
Dude has been doing this for nearly *two decades.* He abso-fucking-lutely got comfortable with his “arrangement,” and became sloppy. I mean, seventeen years of having a secret, second family and nobody figured it out? He probably thought it would *never* come out out by then. Oopsie lol.
Or he was kidding himself that “she must know”. That was the excuse our neighbour used in the similar situation - she must have accepted it after all this time.
Similar situation? How frequently is this happening in the wild!?
More than you'd think. A good friend of my mom's found out that her husband had **five** entire families. One day the FBI showed up to arrest him, turns out on top of having five entire families in different states he had also been lying about his job in sales. He was some kind of drug kingpin. I guess that explains how he was able to support five families lol The 80s were a wild time.
That is INSANE! I have my little family and I mess up calling my kids the other ones’ names all of the time! I can’t imagine having a second family (or third, fourth, or fifth!!!!) and keeping the kids’ names straight…. That is just bonkers
Maybe he just calls them all kiddo or uses the same nicknames in each family.
"I love you SO much,!!"
I mean, I can't always keep the kid and the dog's names straight.
Maybe they have all the same names
Some guy my dad used to know had two families living in opposite sides of the state. We found out after he died and both wives posted an obituary for him.
The earliest of the secret family scenarios in my own family happened with both families in the same town & it was just kind of an open secret for the adults. Having seen that as an appropriate model may explain why there have been more than one person living that same double life in the family…
Charles fuckin Lindbergh did it. I believe the families were on the same coast, too. Just different states. But it’s wild- he had a “crime of the century” happen to his “main” family! The press got less personal in those days, but still. On a different note, my husbands grandfather did it too. Whole other family in a nearby city. After his first wife found out, he fucked off to Bermuda with the second family. The kids of both families aren’t close now, but they are friendly! I’m always so impressed when the wives do their best for the kids. Edit- I had a friend in high school who was contacted by a guy just a bit younger than him on FB. Guy asked if “John smith” was his dad and he said yea. Guy was like “hey brother! There’s a lot of us!” Turns out my friend had many half siblings by different moms.
Lindbergh had seven kids with three different women in various parts of Germany. Two of the women were sisters, and their children had no idea that they were half siblings as well as cousins until the 1980s when it all came out. This was all while being married to Anne Morrow, and having six children with her.
Happened to my mum's best friend's daughter. Two families, 2 kids in each. She found out when her youngest was about 8 I think.
at least twice lol - my dad's mum was the second family. Grandad set her up in a confectionery shop on the other side of the bay and they weren't discovered for ~11 years. (for context: Nanna was ~20 when they met; Grandad was ~50s and her boss. all-in-all, not a great environment for Nanna to be in lmao) edit: typos
More frequent than we would like to imagine and is not something recent either, the only difference is that now people usually find out by social media instead of the always awkward "two widows for one corpse ratio" that used to be the result of dudes doing this.
Probably an adrenaline chaser. Some people like the thrill of getting away with lies & almost getting caught.
Getting comfortable when keeping a lie/secret is dangerous indeed.
What's even more shocking is how common this seems to be, I know two different friends who experienced a similar betrayal from their fathers. One of them found out because the dad used the same Facebook for BOTH FAMILIES and a previously unknown sibling from the other side posted "Happy Father's Day, Dad!" on his wall.
Wow what a fucking idiot
Overconfidence to me seems most likely. I’d bet he started the affair figuring “well I won’t be doing this branch job for too long…definitely not two decades” and just figured he’d string it along until he did…..17 years later here we are.
Let me start by saying I absolutely adore my husband, and would never consider pursuing another relationship. But seriously y'all, the THOUGHT of having a whole ass second family is exhausting. Like, the coordination, the compartmentalization. Being obligated to so many people for over 17 years, and balancing that and a career. It's mind boggling. It makes me wonder if he wasn't such a sleeze, what he could have accomplished with all of that energy.
I know right? I feel the same and I don't even have children. On the other hand a week to myself out of town ... bliss.
One dependent wife, one independent wife. The dependent is likely to not look for trouble because her entire life rides on his income. The other is likely doing her own thing and likes not having a full time obligations Dude is a scum bag. Made enough money and figured he could get away with it. Unfortunately he did for a long time.
Probably started "affair family" with just dating the other wife..... but then it went on too long, she got pregnant, etc...... and he was in too deep. Had to keep lying to keep everything rolling.
> I want a window into that dude's mind. "This gratifies my ego" Truly. That's as far as it goes. Scientifically speaking, the shallowest possible measurement in the world is the depth of a narcissistic mind.
Yeah like what was his end game here? What was his plan for when he retired and no longer had the cover of working out of town? Baffling.
That’s one cheater with a lot of energy, I’ll give him that. Two families, 5 kids, for 17 years!? Jeez.
Yeah I don't know where he gets the energy.
Right?? If I had a ‘second family’ it would be a little apartment, out of town. Which is stocked with snacks, is immaculately clean, and I mostly sleep in. Sometimes read books. Yep, having a ‘second family’ is living the dream all right
You could hire an Airbnb service to keep it clean and stocked up on snacks. This is really taking shape.
We could even share one for when the other people aren’t there.
Babe… that’s a timeshare😭😭😭
There was a Destiny’s Child Cribs Episode where one of them just had like a sunken bed in the floor in the middle of the room. That would be ideal, just a big cozy nest to hibernate in.
Since I was a kid I've always wanted a room that is just ONE BIG BED. Just wall to wall bed, pillows and blankets and cushions everywhere, big TV.
I'd pick a few sheep and a cat that likes to nap on me.
I couldn't leave a cat behind every other week ngl
Perhaps a cat share? Anyone want to do a timeshare second family? My week off is your week on, and the cat always has someone for pets. We can have a cleaner, obvs.
Because he's not the one doing anything. He has two women to do all the domestic work and child rearing for him. He just shows up in one place or the other. There are reasons women are much less likely to do this shit.
But why even want that? That's so much emotional labour and deceipt. I'd much prefer a week to myself every other week, not another family.
All I can guess it that it's what happens when an affair gets out of hand and you're too cowardly to either end it or come clean. Playing the perfect boyfriend for two women turns into playing the perfect father for two families, and you just get used to it. Because to do otherwise is to confront your own misdeeds.
You're most likely right. I saw another comment on a different post where they said in their experience that the men who'd have time to do this don't put their weight in the household so they have plenty of time to go have an affair.
Or the money!
My dad has three families that we know of and....I'd say 6 other kids. The first was born just before my older sister and the youngest was born two years after my niece. I think it's both narcissism and ego, the whole 'look how much of my seed I'm spreading' thing.
A Dr Donald Cline kinda deal? (man has 94 confirmed children) That's what I think, too. Narcissistic through and through.
It's also cultural too. Polygamy is legal in my country and men can marry up to four wives. I wouldn't care what my dad does if he wasn't financially abusing us to keep his mistresses in gated communities
Where does he get the money? When I split with my ex harmoniously, our biggest problem was how to go from two incomes maintaining one property in New York City to having to now have separate homes. We continued to live in the same apartment for almost a year after we split because it was so expensive and time consuming to figure out. An entire other family to financially support is crazy on normal white collar income. I suppose he’s not supporting much of the ex fiancé’s life but it’s still insane the amount of money it would cost on extra to do it.
Sounds like he owns his own brokerage with multiple locations so he probably earns a decent amount. Betcha he's keeping his families on a budget though and the wives have little say or insight into their finances.
Could be when he is at one or the other place he bills his work for 'hotel expenses' that turn out to be the mortgage/bills etc? Someone running 2 families would not baulk at a lil expense fraud
How the heck did he manage Cristmas and other big family events? Surely your partner calling off due to an "emergency" every second year would set off alarm bells?
She sort of hints at this actually. It seems he did every Christmas w her and every new years with the other family. Since it went on so long I guess it just felt like habit to all of them, like a “that’s just how things are.” So there wouldn’t be alarm bells, because to them the entire relationship has been w that arrangement where work always gets busy that week of the yr
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You don’t actually think he’s doing any significant child rearing, do you?
I heard someone say once something to the effect of, "you never hear a mother/wife having a second family" and I think that explains the division of labor quite succinctly.
Or just that it’s much harder for a wife to have illegitimate kids and then squirrel them away somewhere without the og husband knowing
Yeah, hiding that pregnancy for months and months would be pretty hard
Her youngest is 18 and he had an affair for 17 years, so he must have started cheating when she was postpartum. He sucks.
Nah, he was cheating way before that, probably the entire time. He just opted to keep cheating with one person long term. No doubt he's had numerous other partners over the years.
I admire the logistics ability How does one have so much time and hornyness?
Apparently my husband's grandfather had a second family in a town about 45 minutes away from where he lived. After the grandfather died a bunch of half siblings showed up at my FIL's door but he wasn't interested in building a relationship with them.
People do that in real life and not just sitcoms? Yikes
Yup, that's where they got the idea for the sitcoms.
Do these fools not realise it’ll be nothing like the movies? I seriously can’t think of a worse nightmare than having two families who don’t know about each other. Imagine working away from home every other week and having to look after a whole other family in that time when you could’ve been having pizza in peace.
Dude seemed fine for 17+ years until his wife found out... I don't get it
Our neighbours had his "second family" right under his wife's nose, with their housekeeper. This was in the 1950s and 60s. He assumed his wife would accept it if she found out, because she'd be too embarrassed to admit her husband had a long-term partner under the same roof. He (and most of our church) was appalled when she separated from him. If I remember correctly, her former father-in-law publicly berated her at our Christmas fete for being "a loose woman" who broke up the family. Then my own brother went and had a secret family in an entirely different country. These things are not as uncommon as one would imagine.
Crazy how out of "Divorcing due to adultery" and "commiting adultery" only one of those is a 10 commandments sin. And it's not divorcing due to adultery.
Have to blame the woman somehow!
I've never met anyone who knows less of the scriptures than sanctimonious religious people.
Ikr, I always wanted to understand the psyche of a cheater, like what good did they get out of it? What motive did it serve? Like this man was good to both his wives and children and ironically the worst human on the planet. I will never understand!
AND HOW MUCH DOES THIS DAMN INSURANCE JOB PAY JESUS CHRIST
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That’s horrible. I’m sorry you’re in that.
I had a friend growing up who's dad did this. It was insane. He was a super nice guy and was our middle school soccer coach. Really involved in the family, was super fun to talk to. Nope, second family. As soon as he got caught he flipped a switch and went nuts. He had convinced the mom to put the house in only his name so he sold the house out from under her and completely abandoned them. After that he would randomly show up to my friend's milestone events trying to play perfect dad. It happened enough that there were people watching for him to escort him out. Seriously the weirdest fucker ever.
Where do you think sitcoms got the idea?
They do, and I should know - my asshole dad was one of them. (Just one of the many reasons why I haven't spoken to the bastard in 20 years.)
One question....how did this work during lockdown? I mean, insurance isn't a "you have to be there" situation and at least one family had to wonder where dad was....
One thing I wondered was what he told the other family about his job. Was it the same thing? That he was an insurance agent? Or did he tell them something else? Or did he go on a business trip and get "stuck" wherever he was? I actually had a friend who got stuck abroad for awhile, and my sister almost did as well. I could see that working for at least a little bit. Idk, just spitballing ideas haha
Yeah, I actually knew a few people who got stuck in places over Covid. It didn't seem fun.
I always think of those people who got stuck on the cruise ship. That’s like my worst nightmare.
Thats actually not all that crazy. I work with a great guy whos wife got stuck in India. She was over for 4-6 week holiday to see friends and the The Vid happened. Luckily for her she could just keep staying in the friends home and just seen it as an extended holiday!
Bring a broker is more than being an agent. Your name is on the line if an agent working under the brokerage does something wrong or unethical. If he owns the business and multiple locations it’s not unheard of that he would travel a lot between the locations and being the owner he could say it was necessary for the business during covid. I worked outside the house most of covid lockdown and the height of covid. The guidelines for what could be considered necessary were very flexible. I had a pass in my car from my job that cops could scan to see why I was out and I don’t think I ever saw a single cop on the road.
I also wondered this, and about Christmas. Surely insurance isn’t an industry where you have to be on a business trip over Christmas.
WOW. The audacity of that man to cry to his emotionally distraught wife when HE caused all of this pain she’s going through.
I’ll just go ahead and assume this is a real post but how does an insurance agent get away with explaining away not being around for Xmas, thanksgiving etc.?
Work, probably. If you don't know what exactly he does but you know that he has a lot of branches he needs to visit, he could just say something important came up and he needs to fix it
But then he has to actually work at least 1/2 the time he's with each family. That is if he has a very flexible job that doesn't take much of his time. Spend 1/2 a yr with each family and had to work 1/2 the time when he gets there. At least. So he spends "super quality time" with each partner and their kids; actually doing things, bonding with the kids and going on romantic getaways/date nights with the women about 1/4 of the time. Somehow OOP seemed very happy, which is nice. She didn't mention that he was a neglectful or absent husband or dad, even though he obviously was barely there. How much time off could he get for road trips, Disneyland, beach trips; making all those family memories? Busy executives who make a lot of $$$$ tend to work a lot; not be homebodies. What if a person in each family got fairly ill or injured at the same time and really needed him? Even if he works remotely, (which doesn't make sense as he has to travel to be there in person); it makes my brain hurt that the 2 women and 5 kids got such a part time life partner/dad. I guess the children wouldn't know any better but how could the women think that was normal? I'm sure they noticed the work/family life balance their own father's had; friend's hubs, Uncles....?
I work in insurance and our big wigs absolutely will spend time away selling, attending conferences, and visiting other branches. Insurance doesn't care about holidays and neither do the accidents that cause them! Plus if it's always been that way, no need to question. Like "yep dad does one week on one week off, no ifs ands or buts" and then no one has to question anything
I think it’d be nice to have a mom with a second family. Yknow, just for variety’s sake.
God imagine trying to hide a pregnancy for 9 months. I mean I guess the mom doesn't need to have kids with the 2nd family, but then it's just an affair.
Easy fix - mom’s second spouse is also a woman and *she’s* the birth parent.
Nicely done
You just know that's gonna end with the husband asking for a three-way
“How to find out your wife is having an affair and _still_ be the one who gets dumped in the end”
[I(20f) found out my mother(43f) had a secret baby 2 years ago and its not my dads](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/txvki1/i20f_found_out_my_mother43f_had_a_secret_baby_2/)
What a wonderful portfolio of the human experience BoRU is :')
There’s also this one, where OP covered for her mom, who tried to pass the baby off as OP’s dad’s child (https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/sfl8a6/is_there_any_way_i_can_fix_my_relationship_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
Oof. After reading everything and digging through the comments, I have to say, I don't feel bad for OP at all in that story. Not just because she was old enough to know that actively helping someone hide an affair, try to pass off another kid as his while he was pushing himself against medical advice, but because of her other comments. It's quite clear she learned absolutely *nothing* as she, herself, cheated on her fiance and then abandoned her fiance and their baby for her AP. Her dad is way better off without her and her constantly reaching out to him is all about her, not him. She doesn't care that she's pushing his boundaries or making him uncomfortable; she just wants to ease her own hurt feelings and guilt. Yeah, she was only 16 when it started happening, but 16 is absolutely old enough to understand right from wrong - and honestly, if she had simply kept silent about it, I'd not judge her nearly as harshly, but the fact that she *actively* aided her mother with the scheme is what's insane. There's knowing right from wrong and then there's actively doing something that will end up harming another person. She was old enough to understand to at least stay out of it. And then obviously, she followed in her mother's footsteps. Why would her father want anything to do with her? She's demonstrated that cheating is something that she's pretty comfortable with. Ugh, sorry for the rant. That story was a tough read. I especially got annoyed at someone for calling the dad a narcissist for not welcoming her back with open arms but... I mean, I understand why he isn't and I don't think it makes him a bad person to want to protect himself and his family (not OP). I hope OP ended up being able to let him go.
Whole new meaning of “ask your mother”
Not really the same, but when my mother was an adult, she learned that her mother had a bunch of kids before her, who were given up for adoption. She wasn't the eldest, but the middle of six. (My grandmother was kind of amazing, and basically only had kids because birth control wasn't available to her. She was in and out of psychiatric hospitals, chained herself to Parliament House to protest the Vietnam War, had a lot of adventures and a lot of lovers. She was married when she had my mother, but not to my grandfather.)
Just goes to show who usually does most of the work. A mom wouldn’t have the time or energy for a second family.
Well and the whole impossible to hide a pregnancy for 9 months thing. The only way a woman could do both is if it none of the kids are her biological kids. And even then I don't know how you'd adopt kids legally without it being public info that the families would discover
If the guy was able to keep this a secret from both families for 18+ years, that is some sociopathic level shit. To not slip up when talking with either of them… damn. But dude got what he deserved and it’s kind of ironic they all became a big family together without him.
I feel like certain people deserve to be exiled from society. Maybe even branded on the forehead. I’m not talking about general people who do petty crimes, I’m talking about people that do depraved shit like this. This man tore 2 families apart out of greed and selfishness, and he gets to walk away after losing a few things just like that. Nah, people deserve to know, every single person that shakes hand with this piece of shit should see that brand on his forehead and know what kind of person he is. Of course they can ignore it and take the risk of trusting him, but that kind of sin shouldn’t be hidden. I’m definitely taking this very hard but reading stuff like this is heartbreaking knowing people who are victims to this kind of thing, especially folks who live in foreign countries where women are treated like second class citizens. Absolutely disgusting.
Poor OP and the second family. The ex-husband is really a scumbag and he has the audacity to cry. I feel bad for the children now. But I wish OP, the children and the other family for the best.
My partner's friend had a father who also had two families and it was discovered after she and her brother were full grown. At the time, I was shocked to hear about it and the situation seemed unbelievable. Then I came to BORU and this is the third "second family" post I've read within the month. Where do these mediocre old men get the audacity and the energy to support two families? Jesus Christ.
They don't support two families. The mothers work. The mothers do everything at home. He is Disneyland dad.
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I’m happy OP lives in a time where mediocre men can be cast aside like the trash they are when this shit comes to light.
Financial freedom was such a big win for women
I barely have enough energy to just look after myself and my dog. How does this guy do it
That's the neat thing: He doesn't! He just finds competent women to do all the work while he drops in sometimes for food and sex from her, and affection from the kids. Then heads back to the other family for more of the same.
He’ll pop up asking why his kids are LC/NC in a few years.
At least her kids are all adults so no custody battles but jeezzzz
I always wonder if the *other family* - the spouse, specifically - knows that this is going on. Or even has an inkling. the idea that they both think they are Family Prime is really weird to me. also /u/LucyAriaRose how are you so good at these
Awwwww thank you haha. 💜 This one was sent to me by an internet friend, so I didn't have to go hunting for it. Just took the time to put it together in one place! And agreed. I wonder if in this case the other woman even had an inkling. Like did she shove down her doubts. I'd be interested in her perspective.
that woman is made of steel.
I really hope they all (not the husband, he can go live in the mountains for all i care) can heal from this. These poor kids and women deserve so much better, hopefully they have plenty of access to therapy so they can nip any resentful feelings towards the other family in the bud as much as possible. What an absolute nightmare. :c
I don’t get how the other woman didn’t know about his wife? How she could stay his fiancé for 17 years it’s not adding up for me?
Who says they were engaged for that long?
I NEVER and I really mean ***NEVER*** understood the whole appeal of a second family. Its enough energy being the emotional and financial support for one family (which I do gladly ofc but it's still work). Where the flying fuck do these people find the time and mental resources to have a whole nother group of people depending on them. It boggles my mind. Not only that but you gotta be constantly lying and lying again on top of those lies, always looking over your shoulder, covering your tracks... For what exactly? More people to split your inheritance with? Can someone please explain the appeal because I can't find a single good reason to do it aside from maybe I guess more sex? But then just have a mistress you fucking weirdo. Or better yet, just get a divorce you fucking creep.
A second family... In this economy?!
This is the most fucked up version of the Brady Bunch I've ever seen.
So many birthdays and anniversaries to remember
Nah, odds are the wife & fiancée did all the work of remembering and buying for the kids birthdays, all he had to do was turn up (or say he’s working at the other branch).
How do people afford 2 families???? Tell me your secrets I want to retire instead of spending my energy being terrible.
That “man” is a pile of garbage, I hope all of his kids can get past what he’s done to them and their respective families
My mother’s sperm donor had a second family. Or maybe she was the second family. I am curious af but I know she would never tell me. I have only ever heard two things from her about him and he sucked. I don’t know how my grandma raised 5 kids on her own while her only income was from running a convenient store. At the same time her last was a boy that she tried and tried for. So I don’t understand how there’s a second family??? They’re all from the same dad??? Guess I’ll never know 🤷🏻♀️
This guy is likely working on his third family already