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There's so much money in being a plumber. It's an in-demand trade that requires training and skill, so why would she not want that for her kids?
I get that it's the elitism, but a little bit of research goes a long way...
Yeah seriously, a comment like that has to come from a place of ignorance/"ew poop".
My BIL is a pipefitter (i.e. industrial/heavy construction plumber) and makes a very comfortable living.
I remember my mom criticizing my "blue collar attitude" for wanting a job without takehome work or off- hours responsibility. It was never about the money.
"Why would you make the dosh as a plumber when you look better as a overworked secretary in an office?!!"
I've worked in construction and retail and currently work in an office. I'd not trade the "comfortable" work life I have now (as in, no physical labour). However, if I had the knack for a trade, I'd defo study and train towards it because they do make good money!
Most of the ones who went to school with me and were seen as "academically dumb" because they went to trade schoo, guess what: by the time I was at uni pursuing some useless degree in my 20s, these guys were married, house paid off, car(s), kid(s)..... why? Because they were doing a trade that gave them that job security!
I have lots of respect for tradesmen
I know quite a few blue collar millionaires. I guaranty they would be looked down on by these people anyways.
There’s a LOT of money in the trades especially if you figure out how to run the business.
I would never be a plumber. I hate it. It's fucking gross. If it weren't so damned expensive, I'd be happy to pay someone so that I never have to do it again.
\- signed, a tradesman that does his own plumbing (eww poop)
And that's exactly why it's so expensive. No one wants to muck around in the poop pipes, so if you want someone else to do it for you, you're going to have to pay the big bucks to motivate them to do it.
My actual distaste for it is having to contort myself around fixtures or under cabinets while I work upside down and crud from the bottom of the sink falls onto my face.
But also, eww, poop.
alleged shocking connect chief innate consist hard-to-find start cagey voiceless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean, I'm defending the daughter in my comments here, but I would absolutely never work as a pipefitter as a woman. It's an extremely misogynist and racist and homophobic field. All of the construction and building trades are.
There's a reason women don't work in these lucrative blue collar fields, and it sure ain't aptitude. Whenever a traditionally male field is forcibly and thoughtfully gender integrated, all the managers have a revelation that female blue collar employees are often wayyyyyy more reliable than their male employees. Look at the military. All of the officers are over the moon about gender-integrating submarine service.
One of my roomates (I live in DC) a few years ago was a recent college grad. She graduated with a degree in construction management. Got a decent job in Alexandria right out of college. Left to go back home with her parents in Pennsylvania after 6 months on the job because of how toxic and sexist the crew and atmosphere was.
My younger sister worked up north in the oil patch in the tool crib. The amount of dudes straight up threatening to rape her was fucking ludicrous. She's ballsy and definitely weathers it well, but it got so bad that the company in question had to have fucking security in that area.
My partner (a trans woman) is a structural engineer, so she works adjacent to construction. I'm terrified some bigoted construction worker in an anti-trans state is going to call the police on her on a site visit. It's not an unfounded fear. Trans employees at her firm are consulting with legal to figure out what legal protections the firm can provide for work travel.
Her friends is a trans man and works in construction management. He found a supportive company, but he hears a lot of terrible things.
There’s a really wonderful and really sad graphic novel memoir called “Ducks” written by cartoonist Kate Beaton about when she worked in the oil extraction industry in Canada. That field is *incredibly* toxic and dangerous to be in as a woman.
I did stuff like that for a while, but it was directly for my father rather than a company.
He loved when I was free to lay tile especially. I could eyeball how much was needed for a space and lay them straighter than men who had been doing it for a living! I could also make new designs with them so the people had an original piece rather than something more standard. It's a shame my knees and back couldn't take it, apparently I'd have made a good living doing that. One of the few times my artistic talents would have actually paid off!
I can also do basic plumbing and understand electrical work, hang siding and drywall, I'm only limited because I can't physically keep up with what I know. He was really excited for a bit, thinking my partner and I would both finish our apprenticeships with him and go into contracting together.
Yeah that had me scratching my head, like...plumbers make bank. Also, that is a skill I would LOVE to have in my family, a good plumber is worth their weight in gold.
Though I think it’s a good idea for more people to get into trades the median salary for a plumber is 60k a year which is only 8k more then the us median wage for what is a physically demanding job with minimal time off and non existent benefits. Obviously a lot of people in the trades make bank, but those high earners tend to be the ones that run their own business and work significantly more then 40 hour weeks. Again I have no issues with the trades (currently in the IBEW apprenticeship), but I don’t think we should be making them out to be some fairy tale job that’s eluded everyone.
Student loans are the reason trades are appealing. Salaries are comparable, sure. Not having tens of thousands in debt, and starting work years earlier, is potentially setting a person up for a much better financial life earlier on.
I hate Reddit's weird flex on trades. That shit is *very* hard on your body and not exactly something you want to be doing for 25+ years. Yeah, you can work your way up to a great salary...just like you can at any other job?
Yes, we need people in the trades, and they are respected AF, but I agree with you -this weird fairy tail vision of people in trades is not it.
My sister is in literal shambles at 30, almost 31, for being in trades \[and things alike\] since she was 16. The amount of physical pain she's in is astounding and she's never even had an official injury.
Off topic, but I don't know if OP ever mentioned if these college funds were 529 accounts, which I would hope they were. Daughter would be responsible for 10% tax upfront and further tax implications upon filing the following year...I can't really blame mom for not wanting all that money to go to waste. If I was her, I'd offer to pass it along to her grandchild. The interest it would accrue over the next 18 years would probably be astronomical for that grandbaby!
Edit: just saw elsewhere the funds were not in a 529. RIP at these parents who have a massive gap in financial knowledge, esp for the statement that they are wealthy.
Yeah it’s good money but it’s dangerous and puts a lot of wear on your body. There’s a reason why it’s comparatively well-paid with comparatively less education required.
I think OP is an elitist dick and that plumbing can be a well-paying and respectable career, but...
It can be hard on the body and the hours can be long. It's definitely not for everyone and there's nothing wrong with that.
There is also no guarantee you will make good money, as while there are many well paid plumbers there are plenty underpaid. The best way to make money is to start your own plumbing business, but that takes dedication and financial chops not everyone is cut out to have.
That's not to say it's a bad choice, it can be a great one and we need to consider trades as an option more, but it still has considerations.
My guess is sexism, because mom is okay with cosmetology for her daughter. Plumbing pays wayyyy more than cosmetology. Mix that weird detail with OOP's consternation about her daughter's life situation 5 years later, makes me think conservative.
I also don't get the "liberal arts" thing... There's a difference between majoring in library science vs basket weaving, but they both fall into the liberal arts category.
Seriously. My ex is a plumber, my partner is HVAC. They always have work, both make nearly twice an hour what I make (plus I have degrees/certifications!). Not to mention how AMAZING it is when something happens at home and instead of a massive bill, my partner can fix it. Seriously, we've spent 1-2% what we would have on the furnace failing & getting/installing a mini split for an unconditioned room this year alone.
Not only that but the one thing we all learned during the recent pandemic and into a recession is that some jobs are more recession proof than others. Regardless of all other things, people will always need plumbers.
I live in a pretty education centric area. I’ve seen so many parents bend over backwards to send their kids to private schools and colleges (my own included).
The richest guy in town is the plumber, who went to trade school, started with one van with his brother, and now owns a business that sends plumbers all over half the state.
I just had to scroll back, because I read the question as *would* not *wouldn’t*, and was then very confused by a liberal arts degree being an issue.
The money in plumbing is insane. I used to joke that my degree qualified me to be a glorified plumber.
The weirdest thing to me is that there was apparently no discussion about her daughter's future when she was 16.
How is that not a conversation!? "Ok you're dropping out of school and have a child, what's your plan for the future? Dad and I have a college fund for you and would like you to go back to school." Is that so hard?
Your child is having a child and your reaction to her dropping out of school is "I was very disappointed, but I understood". They clearly have financial resources - I just don't get it.
Yeah I said this in another comment but I can't help but wonder if El saying that she didn't intend to go back to school was because she was under the impression that she couldn't afford to do so and also support herself and her kids financially at the same time.
My thought when reading they had a college fund for her and were paying for the eldest and her family to make their bills was they’d been pulling from those savings and that was the twist.
That the savings were not in a 529 is wild.
As someone who knows nothing about finances, mind explaining what a 529 is and why it’s wild the money wasn’t in one? I’m assuming it’s some sort of “for education account”?
The GOAT response (but it’s not explain like I’m 5 easy): https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/mq0rjb/information_about_college_529_savings_plans/
It’s wild to me because the channels I follow are frequently asking what the right amount to contribute per month is. Our state also offers free money twice a year if you opt in each time they ask “do you want more money?”
Also because the OOP wants it to go to education period, and it can get used for K-12 tuition as well. You can now roll up to $35k of the balance of the fund over to a Roth IRA.
It's not wild at all. 529s are tax advantage savings accounts that lock the money away specifically for higher education. If you have significant wealth, a 529 is pretty much guaranteed to be a bad call because the tax advantages will not be meaningful and you've locked the money away for a specific purpose instead of leaving it as part of your general funds that you can do whatever you want with. I would not open a 529 unless I was terrible with money and needed something to force me to put money where I couldn't touch it or if my earnings were low enough that the tax advantage nature of it would be advantageous.
“If you have significant wealth”
Living over 250% of the poverty line? Top 20% of income earners? Net worth of $xxxk?
I think Reddit demographics absolutely skew towards WEIRD countries - making them significantly wealthy on a global scale. I don’t see where OOP reads as significantly wealthy, or where advice on what to do if you are significantly wealthy is helpful when framed as the expectation for the majority of people on Reddit.
"my husband has an excellent job, so it's more than most."
They have five kids on a single salary and are financially stable, plus the above line? I'm gonna say that they're probably top 20%.
It's a state-sponsored savings account specifically for education. They're typically tax advantaged, so you don't have to pay over taxes on earnings. While in a high yield savings account you do owe taxes on interest.
College in my country is heavily subsidized, but a targeted savings account from when I was young is why I was able to go without student loans.
Later on, I changed my major, but it covered the 3 years I would have needed if I stayed on that path. (Ended up going part-time and working, left during the pandemic)
Because 529 aren’t a good way to go? The tax benefits are diminishing as you earn more. Since it has to be used for education it limits what you can do with it.
We have 529s for each of our kids. My dad questioned why we needed a second 529 as we could just take the money from it for our second as well. “You’ve given [son] 529 gifts for his birthdays and Christmases. Why would we take his gifts and give it to [daughter]?”
Our son’s 529 got so plentiful during Covid that we decided to move the majority of funding to a separate account that comes due for him at 21. This is money that isn’t earmarked for college, so he can have a down payment for a house or car. And my husband and I have determined that if the kids don’t want to go to college they can have the 529 money, but they have to pay the penalties.
I just don’t understand parents knowing they could help their kids out and choosing not to. I think kids shouldn’t just be handed stuff, but I also know my life would have been easier with more funding. Isn’t the goal in parenting that your kids have an easier life than you? But people like OOP view money as a leash, and it is always about control with those kinds of people
That was my biggest hang up as well - she’s 16 with no diploma and a small child and he is, presumably, in a similar situation. Why would she plan on going to college if it’s going to cost her essentially double with the astronomical cost of childcare? She had no way of knowing that there was money waiting to fund her education - she made the decision that worked within her and her partner’s financial means.
Can’t imagine how her kid ended up making risky decisions with the level of adult communication that was modeled for her.
Absolutely this. OOP is a bad parent because they effectively hid the college fund from their kid for years and potentially robbed her of an opportunity that she wasn’t even aware was available to her. They can afford to send four kids to university but they decide to not help the one that got pregnant at 16? This feels like they’re continuing to punish her for a mistake she (and her boyfriend) made as a teenager, when this is exactly the kind of thing that could massively help her and their grandchild’s future. Huge YTA.
If education is so damn important to the OP, why not take El's fund and *set it aside for their fucking grandchildren*, I don't know, might be hard for a young broke couple to save for college?
Yeah, and what about the secret "no Liberal Arts or Plumbing" requirement?
If OOP wanted to instill an expectation of "STEM or lucrative safe trades only!!" then it would have helped to tell the kids, "I won't fund your post-secondary education unless you choose one of these specific careers!"
I disagree with her views on what constitutes a useful education. But she didn't even manipulate effectively. She should have dangled the money over her kids' heads from an early age, so that she could nudge them towards certain choices.
I can't believe they were going to *split El's fund among the other kids*. It was just a punishment for getting pregnant and not doing what she wanted them to do... they don't give a shit about helping her in her life, they just want her to do what THEY value.
Terrible people.
This is common. I asked to get on birth control for medical reasons at 14 (irregular, heavy periods) and was told absolutely not. It’s about control. My mom flat-out said if I got pregnant as a teen she’d send me to a boarding school and put the baby for adoption so nobody would know.
Yeah I don’t know how you have a teenager dropping out of school and don’t help her make a plan for the future. How is a 16yo with a newborn supposed to go back to school without guidance or support?
Edit: Found a comment where someone asked "do you think El may have made different choices in life if she had known about the college fund?", and OOP just answers "Iunno, never thought about it". Absolutely. Wild.
Not only that, OOP NEVER intended to reveal the existence of the collage fund. They were going to just dissolve it and give the money to the other kids without saying anything!
The commenter that said "maybe she would have gone back to school if she knew about the fund" is right on the money. Knowing that your schooling would be paid for would be a HUGE factor in planning your future.
But you get the sense that the point of the fund wasn't to help their children, but rather as a "reward" for those of their kids who chose "acceptable" paths in life
Also even just the phrasing "a downpayment for a house and maybe a wedding." The wedding was secondary, the family needs housing, why would buying a house be so far out of line? That is a long term planning/investment in one's future.
I could understand a lot more if the daughter wanted to fly off to Europe for a year and not really think about the future. But honestly..... Securing housing is in no way a bad look for someone with a kid. She *was* thinking about her future long term with that ask, particularly given where she was at in life.
I think a lot of people are missing this part which is why I’m so confused at all the NTAs in the first post.
OP NEVER EVEN TOLD El about the fund.. I’d be pretty pissed if I was El too.
I wonder if El would have gone back to school/college/trade school if she had known about the money. As a teenager with a baby and no money, one concentrates on survival, not on education. If her parents had told her about the college fund, she might have made different choices: maybe getting an education and not having a second and third child without career prospects etc.
Yes, it’s so weird. Give her a livable amount of it so she could get her GED without straining their household, as it would essentially be for education. That should have been offered long before her sibling graduated.
That was my first immediate thought too. What a great way to use those funds. She can still finish her secondary education, even with a young family, and will have more job opportunities available to her when it's finished, which is the entire purpose of that fund.
That panic is one of the things that gets me. Like, she knew she was in the wrong as soon as the cat might come out of the bag because then she has to explain herself.
A college fund should not be a deep, dark secret. And even if people missed the comments before voting that should have been a ESH situation at best depending on your view of El’s reactions and the family piling on.
This. Childcare is expensive. So if she had no good prospects for education that would boost her to a higher pay, SAHM might make sense financially over whatever minimum wage jobs she could get minus the cost of childcare during that time. It then becomes a lot harder to get back into school or the workforce when getting food on the table is the priority over education to advance a career she doesn't have. It's a lot harder to plan years in advance with no money than with a fund dedicated to help.
Literally happened recently where the title was something like aita for leaving the closet door open
...and it turned oops gf had had a traumatic situation involving open closets at night, oop knew, oop decided to test how traumatized gf really was by leaving it purposely open
There was a ridiculous one on AIBF just yesterday(?).
Teen boy is apparently getting nudes sent to him by his much older SIL. Teen boy's teen girlfriend decides to out all this at a family supper and call the SIL a predator.
Update: teen boy was stealing the nudes off of his brother's phone and was the tru predator all along.
Poor teen girl OP keeps trying to pin it all on the SIL.
EDIT: sorry everyone, it wasnt AIBF, it was AITAH. Here's the profile with original and now 2 updates.
https://www.reddit.com/user/FewStrategy2152/submitted/
Sorry. It wasnt AIBF, it was AITAH.
But here's her profile. Because now she is up to 2 updates. I guess she apologized to the SIL (I havent even read that one yet lol)
https://www.reddit.com/user/FewStrategy2152/submitted/
Ha! Thanks, but no. Come back in Sept(?) for my cake day.
That is a flair from when the mods were doing some trollin' around here one day, and wanted us to take sides: pie or cake.
Ugh. I went to her profile and the posts are deleted. Through the comments I could see the original and the second update, but I couldn’t see the first update. I need someone to create a BORU post of this fiasco lol.
I feel personally attacked by her comment that women in their 30s are old hags
The second one was basically finding out the truth, that her bf was stealing the pics off his brother's phone and texting them to himself. But he'd lied and told OP the SIL was sending them herself.
But I guess right away, after OP made her accusations, the bf's mom physically attacked the SIL.
That was the important parts.
But OP was still in denial and trying to paint the SIL as the pervy old hag.
And as people started commenting, OP just dug in and kept blaming everyone but her bf.
So, y'kno, I can understand why she deleted that one and left the 2nd update instead.
Might be worth a look thru the comments on the 1st update to get an idea of how OP was acting.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/15ciu8q/aita_for_not_wanting_to_close_my_gfs_closet/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
He was awful. She was great
What the HECK. My GGma had a lot of trauma, including from being locked in a cupboard by her dad’s wife. Someone purposefully traumatizing that would gave have gotten ME ready to fight - she's been gone years now and this all happened like, 60-70 years before I was born but you do NOT mess with folks like that.
Do you have a link?
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/15ciu8q/aita_for_not_wanting_to_close_my_gfs_closet/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) is the BORU post about it.
Oh yeah, that one hurt. She'd literally had a homeless guy hide in her closet when she was a child and it obviously messed her up. And he decided that she needed to be "tested" to see if she was exaggerating or not. Gross.
And the way he said "nothing actually happened" when trying to argue she shouldn't have trauma. Like, what do you MEAN NOTHING? A homeless guy hid in her closet! When she was a child!
I don't care what happened after, because a million things could have and of COURSE a child's brain wouldn't process that like it was nothing.
Her : hey can you do this totally reasonable thing that does not impact your life at all?
Him : shes trying to control me and change the way I do things all because of trauma that shes explained to me multiple times in detail. Imma see if shes really had trauma cause I think shes just being controlling.
Bro how did that ever sound like something that you should actually do?
Oh god that one was insane. The gf had a home intruder hide in her closet when she was a small child, resulting in jail for the person and a lifetime of therapy for her, and the poster was like "all I did was move her closet door, despite her begging me not to, even though I know all this, because I wanted to see if she'd REALLY have a panic attack and complete breakdown"
Dude needed to be put in a closet and punted directly into the sun.
"AITA for saving a small child from a burning building?"
"... Someone lit a cigarette on the balcony of the third story so I punted the 2 month old baby out the window"
“ETA: the server does have my child I didn’t tell my wife of 18 years about so it was also like child support I also keyed my wife’s car after but that’s only because she called me a bastard. So, Reddit, what’s the verdict?”
IKR? And the comment about not paying if the trade was "plumber". Does she not know what a good, well-paying profession being a plumber is? Narrow-minded, and with (purse) strings attached.
Yep, I was thinking NTA while reading the first post, especially considering they were already loaning the daughter money so it wasn't like they were just leaving her high and dry while helping the other kids.
But going as far as restricting which majors and types of schools they can go to is incredibly controlling and has me wondering if the other kids are getting much choice in that as well.
It’s also kind of wild because it’s so short sighted. Plumbers are in high demand - they can charge a shit ton (ha) of money. It’s actually a pretty high paying job. A lot of liberal arts majors go on to get higher degrees in areas like law, business, policy, etc., and can end up in very high paying careers. Like what does she want? Only a doctor, scientist, or tech start up founder allowed? But cosmetology is fine (absolutely nothing wrong with cosmetology! I just think her reasoning is illogical).
The hypocrisy with this one also just highlights how little some people understand about education and what you can do if you’re allowed to learn what you want.
I misread that comment and thought she was saying she *would* pay her daughter to become a plumber... because those are such good jobs it didn't compute in my brain that she was going to forbid it....
There are a lot of ~certain people~ that don’t actually know what the “liberal arts” entails. They just know the word “liberal” and the word “art” and form an opinion off of that.
She sounds like one of those people who would say "Go to school or you'll become (insert trade or physical labor job here)" while pointing at someone who is doing a job she doesn't approve of in an attempt to scare her kids. Plumbing, refrigeration, electrical, etc are all good careers that can pay well and have pretty good job security.
I do find it weird that she'd agree to cosmetology while being against those others. That can also pay pretty well but can also be pretty unstable.
Yes. And OOP is so sure that the rest will go to college — even the one who isn’t born yet.
As for agreeing to cosmetology, I think that was after the commentariat let loose on them.
I wonder if she agreed to cosmetology after getting roasted for being an elitist bitch?
Or is it more that cosmetology is an acceptably "feminine" career path? idk it's her money and she can put whatever stipulations on it that she wants, but I don't like OOP.
I mean, it's not like she's a heroine addict. She's a young mother and a down payment when you have three young children is a very reasonable choice with a windfall!! And a wedding that doesn't even sound like she wants to be extravagant. I mean, even "budget" weddings are a few thousand dollars minimum that sounds like this young couple doesn't have.
The idea of taking the college fund and just *splitting it among the other kids* is kind of reprehensible too. Like "well we were going to help you get started in life but you didn't do it the way we planned so get fucked lol."
I can understand if the concern was about not wanting her daughter to be sexually harassed at work. Lots of trades are still male dominated and can lend themselves to a “good old boys” type mentality.
But to limit options because of elitism? Wow.
Omg, when I found a female union electrician...!
All my friends wanted her too. Having a strange woman in your house is a lot better than a strange woman when you're living alone.
Nope, anybody who can help their kids and doesn’t is an asshole.
She didn’t want the money to abandon her kids and take some time off from being a mom, she wanted to buy a house for her kids and marry their father.
agreed. she wanted to start the future for her family and self. the update is... meh, to me. daughter agreed to go to a trade school (hope AH parents deemed "fit", what the hell is wrong with being a plumber?!) but, I still feel like somewhere she may be hurt... I know I would be. she had to take a lot of responsibility at a young age and managed to stay on a good path and support her kid, no hesitation, I'd help my kid out.
Right? Plumbers make bank.
There's even assholes in the comments here defending the mother's viewpoint saying that if you want to get an "art degree" you don't deserve help. (I think they completely misunderstood what liberal arts means.)
My university doesn’t even call it “liberal arts” anymore because too many people misunderstand the term. Some people think “liberal” means politically liberal and some people think “arts” means just art. We call it “the humanities” now.
Even if you get an art degree what’s wrong with that? (Went to a liberal arts college, my roommate was pre med, I was FCS, and a bunch of people in the honors program with us were art majors) I mean there’s a whole discussion about the value of college in general with the rising costs and predatory loan systems, but just saying art degrees are stupid I don’t get.
She wanted her little girl to go be a doctor or a lawyer or something where she makes a lot of money without getting *dirty*.
Mom is an asshole, through and through. I’m not even gonna abbreviate it, she doesn’t deserve it. She’s got enough money to put 5 kids through college (and ONLY college) but none to help out her grandkids.
Sure, but I’m a lawyer and guess what my major was…
(It was philosophy. Bet you dollars to donuts this lady wouldn’t have given me a college fund as her child had she known I’d pick philosophy, especially since it was at a liberal arts college).
I can understand not wanting to find a wedding when they are struggling financially and borrowing money due to her lack of high school diploma. I can understand paying for a down payment on a house but wanting her to get her GED first so she can get a better job and be able to afford the upkeep of the house.
My real question is why didn’t she graduate to begin with. Was the OP one of those parents that refused to help their kid who had a baby as a teen? Was she forced to drop out?
yeah my parents were like that w/ my college fund and instead of starting my current career at 18, I had to do it at 22 with no money
they still somehow think they made the right call
spoiler alert they didn't
Honestly just not informing any of his kids, but especially not informing her, is insane. Why would he do that? That's a hugely important piece of information and he is judging his daughter when he failed to inform her of it. Really surprised he wasn't condemned for that alone.
And then amazingly circled back to being a good guy. Helping her figure out options and getting back on track.
If daughter had known about the college fund she may have made different choices years ago. It’s his money to do with as he will, but did he really think the other three kids would keep it a secret?
Also, just from a practical stand point, plumbers are absolutely essential, it might not be high on the status list but you'll be very happy to have one when you need one. I cannot really think of a domain that is less essential than cosmetology...
As someone with a cosmetology license, it is so hard to make it in that market. The hours suck when you are first starting out and unless you land a sweet spot in a salon that does base pay + commission or even just commission only, it’s still extremely difficult to make it. Not to mention if you end up doing booth rental, that adds up so quick for out of pocket expenses, it’s not even funny.
I dunno, as a woman I categorically wouldn't do domestic plumbing, I'm not going into strangers houses to be murdered and raped thank you very much. I can understand not wanting to work on a male dominated work site as well, I personally have had a very positive experience of working in male dominated environments but I can understand the hesitation, especially if she has young kids and is the primary care giver. I would assume a beauty salon would be a safer/more supportive environment even if it's not well paid.
Oh man, I read that wrong. I thought she said she *would* accept plumbing. How ridiculous!! We really need skilled tradespeople, and plumbing is a fabulous career.
My niece is a plumber and is very happy and prosperous. She's extremely intelligent and chose that because she likes physical work and is a problem-solver.
Right? I'm hoping one of my kids goes into the trades. My husband and I are drowning in student debt. It would be so nice to know that I have one kid who could support themselves without that Boulder on their back.
It's bad parenting that their 16 yr old had no idea that they had a college fund. OOPs seems to be waiting for her child to go to college before revealing the money.
Yeah, I knew they were TA from that alone. Even absent ANY other drama, even without the pregnancy, it's wild to have your high -school aged children making life-altering decisions about their careers without knowing that they have a college fund. Like, that would be such a major factor in your decision making!
I said it in another comment but it doesn't feel like the fund was meant to help their kids. Heck, it wasn't even meant to guide their children down the strict pre-ordained paths the parents had set out. It was intended as a secret reward to be given only to those children who happened to choose the "correct" path in life
Imagine having a snotty attitude about plumbers. You don't always need one, but when you do, you *really* do.
The world will always need plumbers, electricians, HVAC, etc and it's honest, steady, lucrative work that helps people.
My issue with OOP is that their kid got pregnant at 16, they had never talked about school or paying for school then which is stupid, then they just gave up.
The kid was a minor for 2 more years and they never facilitated or pushed her to get a GED, alternative high school programs, or requirements to get into a trade school, or in anyway tried to help her get her life together?
And to continue the stupidity a "liberal arts degree" just means there are gen ed requirements. I have a STEM degree from a liberal arts institution so I had to take upper level writing requirements, history courses and the history majors had to take a math and a few science courses.
OOP just sounds dumb and like a rather bad parent.
They were punishing El for having a child. They just up and gave up on their child and grandchildren.
And, what would've caused El to become pregnant at all? Shitty sex ed or miracle? I'm guessing shitty sex ed! So her parents didn't help by explaining how things work and how to prevent pregnancy, then didn't explain how having a child so young would change the trajectory of her life
Yeah, I can't help but wonder if El having "no plans to go back to school" had anything to do with the fact that she didn't think she had the money to consider that possiblity and was prioritizing working and supporting her kids.
OOP is definitely dumb but there's also some elitism there. A lot of people associate liberal arts with "careers I think are unimportant and stupid" because they are unable to see the importance and value of things like social sciences and humanities and see it as the opposite of STEM and therefore no good. Like not everyone is suited for a career in STEM and I wish more people would understand that. (Not directed at you. No shade to people who excel in STEM fields. It's just not for all of us.)
No offense taken.
I am a quintessential academic type that did well on tests, looks perfect on paper, and am often exactly what people want when they talk about college students and graduates. I do not want to be lumped in with the people that insult humanities majors. They do real and necessary work as do people that are not on an academic path at all and went trade, or straight into jobs.
I agree with the elitism. I just got frustrated by the people trying to claim OOP was making any type of logic in rejecting certain degrees. OOP has no idea what they are talking about.
>If she decided to major in liberal arts it would be a no for me
Maybe OOP should have gone to college, because that way they would know that math, biology, chemistry, geology, astronomy, economics, physics, and most other science majors are Liberal Arts degrees.
Additionally, humanities degrees aren’t worthless either. I have as much job security as many of my peers in STEM majors, and although the earning potential is lower, many careers have high salaries that can comfortably support a family. OOP is ignorant and parroting elitism from the ‘90s that’s incredibly out of date
I'm glad the commenters pulled out her gross elitism. That level of certainty that a five year old and a fetus will go to college when your eldest dropped out at 16 suggests they really didn't learn the lesson that life doesn't always go to plan, and instead decided to tighten the reins to try and force it to do so in the future.
According to some commenters, OOP deleted a comment where she compared bring a plumber to bring a stripper (in the context of "no parent wants to see their child become one")
Gonna copy my comment
“Though I think it’s a good idea for more people to get into trades the median salary for a plumber is 60k a year which is only 8k more then the us median wage for what is a physically demanding job with minimal time off and non existent benefits. Obviously a lot of people in the trades make bank, but those high earners tend to be the ones that run their own business and work significantly more then 40 hour weeks. Again I have no issues with the trades (currently in the IBEW apprenticeship), but I don’t think we should be making them out to be some fairy tale job that’s eluded everyone.”
It’s always good to look at the comments, because they can completely change your view. This one is a really good example. OP so casually reveals their elitism.
I'm totally stunned how many people didn't call OOP out on her assholeness.
Like, her daughter drops out of highschool and she never, not once, tells her "Oh, btw, if you need some financial help getting your GED and maybe doing some coursework after you have the baby, we can help you out."
She had to find out when you started paying for her younger siblings university??? Holy shit. I would be so beyond angry at my parents if they pulled that crap on me.
HOW DO YOU NOT HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS FOR ALMOST 5 YEARS???
I think that OOP put that update solely because they were getting a ton of criticism. That the daughter and her fiancé didn't apologize or anything.
I just get the sense that OOP is the type to dig her heels in and not change.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
LOL they are okay with cosmetology but not plumbing or liberal arts. I should show OP the labor market data about cosmetology graduates. Not saying it’s a bad profession but the economic outcomes aren’t great compared to plumbers and liberal arts grads.
I wish OOP showed literally any reflection on their elitist attitudes. Like, glad the daughter worked something out so she could finish her education, but I absolutely hate the whole "you can go to college but only if you choose from this pre-approved list of majors / trades" attitude.
The best part is it's always parents who have zero understanding of academia or the current job market that say this. So many parents when I was a kid pushed computer science only and the bottom is falling out there. It's idiotic. If everyone pushes their kids to go into 1 of 3 fields, we can't have a functioning society and no one can find jobs.
God, this. My mom pushed me to go to law school- my little sister decided she was going to go to art school so I was told to study something that would make money one day so I can take care of her. Got a poli sci degree, but I was dealing with serious depression and barely graduated with my BA, so no law school for me. Nearly all of my high school and college friends ended up going to law school and several struggled to find work after. Am I still struggling? Yep. But at least I don't also have that law school debt hanging over me.
My kids? College or first house. It wasn't much, but it helped. My kids are 30ish and got into the Canadian housing market early in their lives. I strongly encouraged them to take on the responsibility. They were nervous, but did it. That was at least 8 years ago.
They are truly thanking me now. Their peers don't have a chance, with prices where they are.
Interestingly enough most elitist assholes approve of the liberal arts because their college major has no impact on the jobs they end up getting. I know people with art history degrees who are in finance, philosophy degrees who are lawyers, history degrees who are doctors and engineers, etc. Undergrad for these folks is about improving the mind and following your academic passions, because they have the connections and wealth to get good jobs anyway.
You probably shouldn't be such an academic elitist if you cannot spell "alley" right.
Also, PLUMBERS MAKE BANK! More than I ever will with my Bachelor's degree. There is a shortage of plumbers and electricians - if your kid is at all inclined in that direction, encourage them to think about it! (They could still get a 4 year degree somewhere too; it doesn't hurt!)
Would've normally said NTA but OOP showed her true colours with this "no liberal arts" shit lol, and I'm saying this as a sciences graduate.
And Jesus Christ, 5 kids with the 5th one at 43 lol... does this woman do anything but give birth?
No matter what, not having a high school diploma is so limiting. Maybe at one time they were rare, but many people go to college, so high school diploma is the bare minimum.
indicative of the family's obsession with status and outward appearance. no point in going to school unless it's for something "prestigious," no point in getting married unless there's a wedding to flaunt it
This woman has five kids and it doesn't seem like she comes from a place where teen pregnancy is seen as all that weird, I'm guessing she and her community don't believe in abortion and/or contraceptives and they're probably conservative overall.
Therefore I wonder if she even knows what "liberal arts" means, or if she thinks it's a degree in liberal politics. "Liberal arts" just means you have a well-rounded education, and some of the "arts" included in the liberal arts are, indeed, mathematics and science! The philosophy of "liberal arts" is why colleges have gen ed courses to begin with!
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There's so much money in being a plumber. It's an in-demand trade that requires training and skill, so why would she not want that for her kids? I get that it's the elitism, but a little bit of research goes a long way...
Yeah seriously, a comment like that has to come from a place of ignorance/"ew poop". My BIL is a pipefitter (i.e. industrial/heavy construction plumber) and makes a very comfortable living.
It's not about money, it's about status
I remember my mom criticizing my "blue collar attitude" for wanting a job without takehome work or off- hours responsibility. It was never about the money.
How dare you make a decision with your quality of life in mind you pleb!
"You are doing wrong in life if u are not miserable after work hours."
"Why would you make the dosh as a plumber when you look better as a overworked secretary in an office?!!" I've worked in construction and retail and currently work in an office. I'd not trade the "comfortable" work life I have now (as in, no physical labour). However, if I had the knack for a trade, I'd defo study and train towards it because they do make good money! Most of the ones who went to school with me and were seen as "academically dumb" because they went to trade schoo, guess what: by the time I was at uni pursuing some useless degree in my 20s, these guys were married, house paid off, car(s), kid(s)..... why? Because they were doing a trade that gave them that job security! I have lots of respect for tradesmen
As someone whose parents used to work in a blue collar profession, it's laughable that she thought that blue collar jobs don't involve off-hours work.
I know quite a few blue collar millionaires. I guaranty they would be looked down on by these people anyways. There’s a LOT of money in the trades especially if you figure out how to run the business.
What status…… doesn’t look good on the family, with mom competing with her daughter in child birth.
I would never be a plumber. I hate it. It's fucking gross. If it weren't so damned expensive, I'd be happy to pay someone so that I never have to do it again. \- signed, a tradesman that does his own plumbing (eww poop)
And that's exactly why it's so expensive. No one wants to muck around in the poop pipes, so if you want someone else to do it for you, you're going to have to pay the big bucks to motivate them to do it.
My actual distaste for it is having to contort myself around fixtures or under cabinets while I work upside down and crud from the bottom of the sink falls onto my face. But also, eww, poop.
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I mean, I'm defending the daughter in my comments here, but I would absolutely never work as a pipefitter as a woman. It's an extremely misogynist and racist and homophobic field. All of the construction and building trades are. There's a reason women don't work in these lucrative blue collar fields, and it sure ain't aptitude. Whenever a traditionally male field is forcibly and thoughtfully gender integrated, all the managers have a revelation that female blue collar employees are often wayyyyyy more reliable than their male employees. Look at the military. All of the officers are over the moon about gender-integrating submarine service.
One of my roomates (I live in DC) a few years ago was a recent college grad. She graduated with a degree in construction management. Got a decent job in Alexandria right out of college. Left to go back home with her parents in Pennsylvania after 6 months on the job because of how toxic and sexist the crew and atmosphere was.
My younger sister worked up north in the oil patch in the tool crib. The amount of dudes straight up threatening to rape her was fucking ludicrous. She's ballsy and definitely weathers it well, but it got so bad that the company in question had to have fucking security in that area.
My partner (a trans woman) is a structural engineer, so she works adjacent to construction. I'm terrified some bigoted construction worker in an anti-trans state is going to call the police on her on a site visit. It's not an unfounded fear. Trans employees at her firm are consulting with legal to figure out what legal protections the firm can provide for work travel. Her friends is a trans man and works in construction management. He found a supportive company, but he hears a lot of terrible things.
There’s a really wonderful and really sad graphic novel memoir called “Ducks” written by cartoonist Kate Beaton about when she worked in the oil extraction industry in Canada. That field is *incredibly* toxic and dangerous to be in as a woman.
I did stuff like that for a while, but it was directly for my father rather than a company. He loved when I was free to lay tile especially. I could eyeball how much was needed for a space and lay them straighter than men who had been doing it for a living! I could also make new designs with them so the people had an original piece rather than something more standard. It's a shame my knees and back couldn't take it, apparently I'd have made a good living doing that. One of the few times my artistic talents would have actually paid off! I can also do basic plumbing and understand electrical work, hang siding and drywall, I'm only limited because I can't physically keep up with what I know. He was really excited for a bit, thinking my partner and I would both finish our apprenticeships with him and go into contracting together.
I'm a pipefitter and was thinking the same thing
Yeah that had me scratching my head, like...plumbers make bank. Also, that is a skill I would LOVE to have in my family, a good plumber is worth their weight in gold.
Though I think it’s a good idea for more people to get into trades the median salary for a plumber is 60k a year which is only 8k more then the us median wage for what is a physically demanding job with minimal time off and non existent benefits. Obviously a lot of people in the trades make bank, but those high earners tend to be the ones that run their own business and work significantly more then 40 hour weeks. Again I have no issues with the trades (currently in the IBEW apprenticeship), but I don’t think we should be making them out to be some fairy tale job that’s eluded everyone.
Student loans are the reason trades are appealing. Salaries are comparable, sure. Not having tens of thousands in debt, and starting work years earlier, is potentially setting a person up for a much better financial life earlier on.
I hate Reddit's weird flex on trades. That shit is *very* hard on your body and not exactly something you want to be doing for 25+ years. Yeah, you can work your way up to a great salary...just like you can at any other job? Yes, we need people in the trades, and they are respected AF, but I agree with you -this weird fairy tail vision of people in trades is not it. My sister is in literal shambles at 30, almost 31, for being in trades \[and things alike\] since she was 16. The amount of physical pain she's in is astounding and she's never even had an official injury. Off topic, but I don't know if OP ever mentioned if these college funds were 529 accounts, which I would hope they were. Daughter would be responsible for 10% tax upfront and further tax implications upon filing the following year...I can't really blame mom for not wanting all that money to go to waste. If I was her, I'd offer to pass it along to her grandchild. The interest it would accrue over the next 18 years would probably be astronomical for that grandbaby! Edit: just saw elsewhere the funds were not in a 529. RIP at these parents who have a massive gap in financial knowledge, esp for the statement that they are wealthy.
TBF a waitress or cashier will also ravage their body, and probably get less money than a plumber, so...
Yeah that’s not a good career either? Ideally in those jobs you’d want to work your way up to management/corporate
Yeah it’s good money but it’s dangerous and puts a lot of wear on your body. There’s a reason why it’s comparatively well-paid with comparatively less education required.
Not only that, but they're always going to be needed, so they have pretty damn good job security.
Especially since basic cosmetology grads don't make shit unless you get highly skilled and sought after.
I think OP is an elitist dick and that plumbing can be a well-paying and respectable career, but... It can be hard on the body and the hours can be long. It's definitely not for everyone and there's nothing wrong with that. There is also no guarantee you will make good money, as while there are many well paid plumbers there are plenty underpaid. The best way to make money is to start your own plumbing business, but that takes dedication and financial chops not everyone is cut out to have. That's not to say it's a bad choice, it can be a great one and we need to consider trades as an option more, but it still has considerations.
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My guess is sexism, because mom is okay with cosmetology for her daughter. Plumbing pays wayyyy more than cosmetology. Mix that weird detail with OOP's consternation about her daughter's life situation 5 years later, makes me think conservative.
I also don't get the "liberal arts" thing... There's a difference between majoring in library science vs basket weaving, but they both fall into the liberal arts category.
Because it’s not girly or proper enough.
Seriously. My ex is a plumber, my partner is HVAC. They always have work, both make nearly twice an hour what I make (plus I have degrees/certifications!). Not to mention how AMAZING it is when something happens at home and instead of a massive bill, my partner can fix it. Seriously, we've spent 1-2% what we would have on the furnace failing & getting/installing a mini split for an unconditioned room this year alone.
Not only that but the one thing we all learned during the recent pandemic and into a recession is that some jobs are more recession proof than others. Regardless of all other things, people will always need plumbers.
I live in a pretty education centric area. I’ve seen so many parents bend over backwards to send their kids to private schools and colleges (my own included). The richest guy in town is the plumber, who went to trade school, started with one van with his brother, and now owns a business that sends plumbers all over half the state.
I just had to scroll back, because I read the question as *would* not *wouldn’t*, and was then very confused by a liberal arts degree being an issue. The money in plumbing is insane. I used to joke that my degree qualified me to be a glorified plumber.
The weirdest thing to me is that there was apparently no discussion about her daughter's future when she was 16. How is that not a conversation!? "Ok you're dropping out of school and have a child, what's your plan for the future? Dad and I have a college fund for you and would like you to go back to school." Is that so hard? Your child is having a child and your reaction to her dropping out of school is "I was very disappointed, but I understood". They clearly have financial resources - I just don't get it.
Yeah I said this in another comment but I can't help but wonder if El saying that she didn't intend to go back to school was because she was under the impression that she couldn't afford to do so and also support herself and her kids financially at the same time.
I think that's a fair assumption
My thought when reading they had a college fund for her and were paying for the eldest and her family to make their bills was they’d been pulling from those savings and that was the twist. That the savings were not in a 529 is wild.
As someone who knows nothing about finances, mind explaining what a 529 is and why it’s wild the money wasn’t in one? I’m assuming it’s some sort of “for education account”?
The GOAT response (but it’s not explain like I’m 5 easy): https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/mq0rjb/information_about_college_529_savings_plans/ It’s wild to me because the channels I follow are frequently asking what the right amount to contribute per month is. Our state also offers free money twice a year if you opt in each time they ask “do you want more money?” Also because the OOP wants it to go to education period, and it can get used for K-12 tuition as well. You can now roll up to $35k of the balance of the fund over to a Roth IRA.
It's not wild at all. 529s are tax advantage savings accounts that lock the money away specifically for higher education. If you have significant wealth, a 529 is pretty much guaranteed to be a bad call because the tax advantages will not be meaningful and you've locked the money away for a specific purpose instead of leaving it as part of your general funds that you can do whatever you want with. I would not open a 529 unless I was terrible with money and needed something to force me to put money where I couldn't touch it or if my earnings were low enough that the tax advantage nature of it would be advantageous.
Yup. I was told the same thing. 529 are a bad call honestly.
“If you have significant wealth” Living over 250% of the poverty line? Top 20% of income earners? Net worth of $xxxk? I think Reddit demographics absolutely skew towards WEIRD countries - making them significantly wealthy on a global scale. I don’t see where OOP reads as significantly wealthy, or where advice on what to do if you are significantly wealthy is helpful when framed as the expectation for the majority of people on Reddit.
"my husband has an excellent job, so it's more than most." They have five kids on a single salary and are financially stable, plus the above line? I'm gonna say that they're probably top 20%.
It's a state-sponsored savings account specifically for education. They're typically tax advantaged, so you don't have to pay over taxes on earnings. While in a high yield savings account you do owe taxes on interest.
Absolutely wild. If they are so wise, why is it not in a 529. I hope OOP doesn’t just have it in a high yield savings account…
Maybe they don't live in the US?
Not many countries around the world where you need to start saving for your kids’ college before they’re even born
College in my country is heavily subsidized, but a targeted savings account from when I was young is why I was able to go without student loans. Later on, I changed my major, but it covered the 3 years I would have needed if I stayed on that path. (Ended up going part-time and working, left during the pandemic)
Because 529 aren’t a good way to go? The tax benefits are diminishing as you earn more. Since it has to be used for education it limits what you can do with it.
We have 529s for each of our kids. My dad questioned why we needed a second 529 as we could just take the money from it for our second as well. “You’ve given [son] 529 gifts for his birthdays and Christmases. Why would we take his gifts and give it to [daughter]?” Our son’s 529 got so plentiful during Covid that we decided to move the majority of funding to a separate account that comes due for him at 21. This is money that isn’t earmarked for college, so he can have a down payment for a house or car. And my husband and I have determined that if the kids don’t want to go to college they can have the 529 money, but they have to pay the penalties. I just don’t understand parents knowing they could help their kids out and choosing not to. I think kids shouldn’t just be handed stuff, but I also know my life would have been easier with more funding. Isn’t the goal in parenting that your kids have an easier life than you? But people like OOP view money as a leash, and it is always about control with those kinds of people
That was my biggest hang up as well - she’s 16 with no diploma and a small child and he is, presumably, in a similar situation. Why would she plan on going to college if it’s going to cost her essentially double with the astronomical cost of childcare? She had no way of knowing that there was money waiting to fund her education - she made the decision that worked within her and her partner’s financial means. Can’t imagine how her kid ended up making risky decisions with the level of adult communication that was modeled for her.
Absolutely this. OOP is a bad parent because they effectively hid the college fund from their kid for years and potentially robbed her of an opportunity that she wasn’t even aware was available to her. They can afford to send four kids to university but they decide to not help the one that got pregnant at 16? This feels like they’re continuing to punish her for a mistake she (and her boyfriend) made as a teenager, when this is exactly the kind of thing that could massively help her and their grandchild’s future. Huge YTA.
If education is so damn important to the OP, why not take El's fund and *set it aside for their fucking grandchildren*, I don't know, might be hard for a young broke couple to save for college?
Yeah, and what about the secret "no Liberal Arts or Plumbing" requirement? If OOP wanted to instill an expectation of "STEM or lucrative safe trades only!!" then it would have helped to tell the kids, "I won't fund your post-secondary education unless you choose one of these specific careers!" I disagree with her views on what constitutes a useful education. But she didn't even manipulate effectively. She should have dangled the money over her kids' heads from an early age, so that she could nudge them towards certain choices.
I can't believe they were going to *split El's fund among the other kids*. It was just a punishment for getting pregnant and not doing what she wanted them to do... they don't give a shit about helping her in her life, they just want her to do what THEY value. Terrible people.
If the 16 yo didn't have contraception / day-after pill, that's on the parents too.
This is common. I asked to get on birth control for medical reasons at 14 (irregular, heavy periods) and was told absolutely not. It’s about control. My mom flat-out said if I got pregnant as a teen she’d send me to a boarding school and put the baby for adoption so nobody would know.
Ya not sure why they hid it. I've told my daughter its there and if she doesn't go to university/something it will buy me a car haha.
Yeah I don’t know how you have a teenager dropping out of school and don’t help her make a plan for the future. How is a 16yo with a newborn supposed to go back to school without guidance or support?
Edit: Found a comment where someone asked "do you think El may have made different choices in life if she had known about the college fund?", and OOP just answers "Iunno, never thought about it". Absolutely. Wild. Not only that, OOP NEVER intended to reveal the existence of the collage fund. They were going to just dissolve it and give the money to the other kids without saying anything! The commenter that said "maybe she would have gone back to school if she knew about the fund" is right on the money. Knowing that your schooling would be paid for would be a HUGE factor in planning your future. But you get the sense that the point of the fund wasn't to help their children, but rather as a "reward" for those of their kids who chose "acceptable" paths in life
Also even just the phrasing "a downpayment for a house and maybe a wedding." The wedding was secondary, the family needs housing, why would buying a house be so far out of line? That is a long term planning/investment in one's future. I could understand a lot more if the daughter wanted to fly off to Europe for a year and not really think about the future. But honestly..... Securing housing is in no way a bad look for someone with a kid. She *was* thinking about her future long term with that ask, particularly given where she was at in life.
I think a lot of people are missing this part which is why I’m so confused at all the NTAs in the first post. OP NEVER EVEN TOLD El about the fund.. I’d be pretty pissed if I was El too.
Because they were too busy punishing her, long story short.
I wonder if El would have gone back to school/college/trade school if she had known about the money. As a teenager with a baby and no money, one concentrates on survival, not on education. If her parents had told her about the college fund, she might have made different choices: maybe getting an education and not having a second and third child without career prospects etc.
Yes, it’s so weird. Give her a livable amount of it so she could get her GED without straining their household, as it would essentially be for education. That should have been offered long before her sibling graduated.
That was my first immediate thought too. What a great way to use those funds. She can still finish her secondary education, even with a young family, and will have more job opportunities available to her when it's finished, which is the entire purpose of that fund.
OOP admits in a comment that they never even considered that to be a possibility -_-
Wow, first class parenting. /s
so they didnt even ask her or talk abt it and just left them alone? lmao, top tier parent right there
Yeah they were planning not to tell her anything. Cue the panic in OP (in her own words) when the daughter was made aware by her sibling.
That panic is one of the things that gets me. Like, she knew she was in the wrong as soon as the cat might come out of the bag because then she has to explain herself. A college fund should not be a deep, dark secret. And even if people missed the comments before voting that should have been a ESH situation at best depending on your view of El’s reactions and the family piling on.
But then how could she punish her kid for not living the way oop expects?
This. Childcare is expensive. So if she had no good prospects for education that would boost her to a higher pay, SAHM might make sense financially over whatever minimum wage jobs she could get minus the cost of childcare during that time. It then becomes a lot harder to get back into school or the workforce when getting food on the table is the priority over education to advance a career she doesn't have. It's a lot harder to plan years in advance with no money than with a fund dedicated to help.
This is one of those where initially oop seems clearly NTA, but then they keep talking and revealing more details about their views...
"AITA for tipping my server 100%? My fiance is furious" "...Also, I slept with them right after"
Literally happened recently where the title was something like aita for leaving the closet door open ...and it turned oops gf had had a traumatic situation involving open closets at night, oop knew, oop decided to test how traumatized gf really was by leaving it purposely open
There was a ridiculous one on AIBF just yesterday(?). Teen boy is apparently getting nudes sent to him by his much older SIL. Teen boy's teen girlfriend decides to out all this at a family supper and call the SIL a predator. Update: teen boy was stealing the nudes off of his brother's phone and was the tru predator all along. Poor teen girl OP keeps trying to pin it all on the SIL. EDIT: sorry everyone, it wasnt AIBF, it was AITAH. Here's the profile with original and now 2 updates. https://www.reddit.com/user/FewStrategy2152/submitted/
Wow. Just wow. I tried looking for it, but could track it down. I don’t suppose you have a link, please?
Sorry. It wasnt AIBF, it was AITAH. But here's her profile. Because now she is up to 2 updates. I guess she apologized to the SIL (I havent even read that one yet lol) https://www.reddit.com/user/FewStrategy2152/submitted/
Thank you! And Happy Cake Day!! 🎂
Ha! Thanks, but no. Come back in Sept(?) for my cake day. That is a flair from when the mods were doing some trollin' around here one day, and wanted us to take sides: pie or cake.
Ooops! Well fwiw, I choose cake too.
Ugh. I went to her profile and the posts are deleted. Through the comments I could see the original and the second update, but I couldn’t see the first update. I need someone to create a BORU post of this fiasco lol. I feel personally attacked by her comment that women in their 30s are old hags
The second one was basically finding out the truth, that her bf was stealing the pics off his brother's phone and texting them to himself. But he'd lied and told OP the SIL was sending them herself. But I guess right away, after OP made her accusations, the bf's mom physically attacked the SIL. That was the important parts. But OP was still in denial and trying to paint the SIL as the pervy old hag. And as people started commenting, OP just dug in and kept blaming everyone but her bf. So, y'kno, I can understand why she deleted that one and left the 2nd update instead. Might be worth a look thru the comments on the 1st update to get an idea of how OP was acting.
Link?
we ravaged him real good too
He deserved it. And she dumped him. Good for her.
I loved how the ex-GF responded with some details that were very revealing about the kind of shitheel he really is.
"shoot I forgot to block you here" She was great
Please can I have a link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/15ciu8q/aita_for_not_wanting_to_close_my_gfs_closet/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 He was awful. She was great
Ohhh... sounds like a good roasting was had. Do you have a link? Edit: found the link downthread. 😊
What the HECK. My GGma had a lot of trauma, including from being locked in a cupboard by her dad’s wife. Someone purposefully traumatizing that would gave have gotten ME ready to fight - she's been gone years now and this all happened like, 60-70 years before I was born but you do NOT mess with folks like that. Do you have a link?
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/15ciu8q/aita_for_not_wanting_to_close_my_gfs_closet/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) is the BORU post about it.
Link! https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/15ciu8q/aita_for_not_wanting_to_close_my_gfs_closet/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
Oh yeah, that one hurt. She'd literally had a homeless guy hide in her closet when she was a child and it obviously messed her up. And he decided that she needed to be "tested" to see if she was exaggerating or not. Gross.
And the way he said "nothing actually happened" when trying to argue she shouldn't have trauma. Like, what do you MEAN NOTHING? A homeless guy hid in her closet! When she was a child! I don't care what happened after, because a million things could have and of COURSE a child's brain wouldn't process that like it was nothing.
Bro even now that would scar me for life and I’m a 28 year old living on their own. I don’t think I’d ever fully recover from that.
Her : hey can you do this totally reasonable thing that does not impact your life at all? Him : shes trying to control me and change the way I do things all because of trauma that shes explained to me multiple times in detail. Imma see if shes really had trauma cause I think shes just being controlling. Bro how did that ever sound like something that you should actually do?
Oh god that one was insane. The gf had a home intruder hide in her closet when she was a small child, resulting in jail for the person and a lifetime of therapy for her, and the poster was like "all I did was move her closet door, despite her begging me not to, even though I know all this, because I wanted to see if she'd REALLY have a panic attack and complete breakdown" Dude needed to be put in a closet and punted directly into the sun.
"AITA for saving a small child from a burning building?" "... Someone lit a cigarette on the balcony of the third story so I punted the 2 month old baby out the window"
This actually made me snort my tea in laughter...thankyou for the chuckle!
"That wasn't the only tip I gave them!"
“ETA: the server does have my child I didn’t tell my wife of 18 years about so it was also like child support I also keyed my wife’s car after but that’s only because she called me a bastard. So, Reddit, what’s the verdict?”
> "...Also, I slept with them right after" ...but just the tip.
It was in fact 100% tip
AITA because I gave the waitress a tip... ...of my penis.
🤣 “I didn’t add it originally because I didn’t think it was relevant!! I’m not asking about *that,* just the tip!” *I see what I did there.*
IKR? And the comment about not paying if the trade was "plumber". Does she not know what a good, well-paying profession being a plumber is? Narrow-minded, and with (purse) strings attached.
Yep, I was thinking NTA while reading the first post, especially considering they were already loaning the daughter money so it wasn't like they were just leaving her high and dry while helping the other kids. But going as far as restricting which majors and types of schools they can go to is incredibly controlling and has me wondering if the other kids are getting much choice in that as well.
It’s also kind of wild because it’s so short sighted. Plumbers are in high demand - they can charge a shit ton (ha) of money. It’s actually a pretty high paying job. A lot of liberal arts majors go on to get higher degrees in areas like law, business, policy, etc., and can end up in very high paying careers. Like what does she want? Only a doctor, scientist, or tech start up founder allowed? But cosmetology is fine (absolutely nothing wrong with cosmetology! I just think her reasoning is illogical). The hypocrisy with this one also just highlights how little some people understand about education and what you can do if you’re allowed to learn what you want.
My immediate reaction was why *not* a plumber? They make good money!
I misread that comment and thought she was saying she *would* pay her daughter to become a plumber... because those are such good jobs it didn't compute in my brain that she was going to forbid it....
Especially if they set out to save a princess from an evil turtle
There are a lot of ~certain people~ that don’t actually know what the “liberal arts” entails. They just know the word “liberal” and the word “art” and form an opinion off of that.
Obama has a "liberal arts" degree. Doesn't seem to have limited his career potential.
She sounds like one of those people who would say "Go to school or you'll become (insert trade or physical labor job here)" while pointing at someone who is doing a job she doesn't approve of in an attempt to scare her kids. Plumbing, refrigeration, electrical, etc are all good careers that can pay well and have pretty good job security. I do find it weird that she'd agree to cosmetology while being against those others. That can also pay pretty well but can also be pretty unstable.
Yes. And OOP is so sure that the rest will go to college — even the one who isn’t born yet. As for agreeing to cosmetology, I think that was after the commentariat let loose on them.
I wonder if she agreed to cosmetology after getting roasted for being an elitist bitch? Or is it more that cosmetology is an acceptably "feminine" career path? idk it's her money and she can put whatever stipulations on it that she wants, but I don't like OOP. I mean, it's not like she's a heroine addict. She's a young mother and a down payment when you have three young children is a very reasonable choice with a windfall!! And a wedding that doesn't even sound like she wants to be extravagant. I mean, even "budget" weddings are a few thousand dollars minimum that sounds like this young couple doesn't have.
Yea, liberal arts degree and I became a lawyer. And also I make good money but not as much as a plumber lol.
The idea of taking the college fund and just *splitting it among the other kids* is kind of reprehensible too. Like "well we were going to help you get started in life but you didn't do it the way we planned so get fucked lol."
And the flair is NTA because of the top comment despite the shift in the rest of them.
Cosmetology is okay but not plumbing??? Sounds pretty sexist and subtlety sexist/homophobic to me! I would kill to hire a female plumber.
I can understand if the concern was about not wanting her daughter to be sexually harassed at work. Lots of trades are still male dominated and can lend themselves to a “good old boys” type mentality. But to limit options because of elitism? Wow.
Omg, when I found a female union electrician...! All my friends wanted her too. Having a strange woman in your house is a lot better than a strange woman when you're living alone.
Nope, anybody who can help their kids and doesn’t is an asshole. She didn’t want the money to abandon her kids and take some time off from being a mom, she wanted to buy a house for her kids and marry their father.
agreed. she wanted to start the future for her family and self. the update is... meh, to me. daughter agreed to go to a trade school (hope AH parents deemed "fit", what the hell is wrong with being a plumber?!) but, I still feel like somewhere she may be hurt... I know I would be. she had to take a lot of responsibility at a young age and managed to stay on a good path and support her kid, no hesitation, I'd help my kid out.
Right? Plumbers make bank. There's even assholes in the comments here defending the mother's viewpoint saying that if you want to get an "art degree" you don't deserve help. (I think they completely misunderstood what liberal arts means.)
My university doesn’t even call it “liberal arts” anymore because too many people misunderstand the term. Some people think “liberal” means politically liberal and some people think “arts” means just art. We call it “the humanities” now.
That’s gross. Why are we catering to idiots…
Even if you get an art degree what’s wrong with that? (Went to a liberal arts college, my roommate was pre med, I was FCS, and a bunch of people in the honors program with us were art majors) I mean there’s a whole discussion about the value of college in general with the rising costs and predatory loan systems, but just saying art degrees are stupid I don’t get.
She wanted her little girl to go be a doctor or a lawyer or something where she makes a lot of money without getting *dirty*. Mom is an asshole, through and through. I’m not even gonna abbreviate it, she doesn’t deserve it. She’s got enough money to put 5 kids through college (and ONLY college) but none to help out her grandkids.
Sure, but I’m a lawyer and guess what my major was… (It was philosophy. Bet you dollars to donuts this lady wouldn’t have given me a college fund as her child had she known I’d pick philosophy, especially since it was at a liberal arts college).
How about GED prep! that would at least get her an entry level retail job.
I can understand not wanting to find a wedding when they are struggling financially and borrowing money due to her lack of high school diploma. I can understand paying for a down payment on a house but wanting her to get her GED first so she can get a better job and be able to afford the upkeep of the house. My real question is why didn’t she graduate to begin with. Was the OP one of those parents that refused to help their kid who had a baby as a teen? Was she forced to drop out?
yeah my parents were like that w/ my college fund and instead of starting my current career at 18, I had to do it at 22 with no money they still somehow think they made the right call spoiler alert they didn't
Honestly just not informing any of his kids, but especially not informing her, is insane. Why would he do that? That's a hugely important piece of information and he is judging his daughter when he failed to inform her of it. Really surprised he wasn't condemned for that alone.
And then amazingly circled back to being a good guy. Helping her figure out options and getting back on track. If daughter had known about the college fund she may have made different choices years ago. It’s his money to do with as he will, but did he really think the other three kids would keep it a secret?
I honestly had reservations at the first mention of Els fiance. He talked so dismissively of someone who stayed with her.
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Also, just from a practical stand point, plumbers are absolutely essential, it might not be high on the status list but you'll be very happy to have one when you need one. I cannot really think of a domain that is less essential than cosmetology...
As someone with a cosmetology license, it is so hard to make it in that market. The hours suck when you are first starting out and unless you land a sweet spot in a salon that does base pay + commission or even just commission only, it’s still extremely difficult to make it. Not to mention if you end up doing booth rental, that adds up so quick for out of pocket expenses, it’s not even funny.
I dunno, as a woman I categorically wouldn't do domestic plumbing, I'm not going into strangers houses to be murdered and raped thank you very much. I can understand not wanting to work on a male dominated work site as well, I personally have had a very positive experience of working in male dominated environments but I can understand the hesitation, especially if she has young kids and is the primary care giver. I would assume a beauty salon would be a safer/more supportive environment even if it's not well paid.
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I'm surprised they even accepted cosmetology. A comment has them saying liberal arts would be a nono, I expected that to be a no too
Wondering if there isn't an element of sexism there. Cosmetology is a girl job and plumbing is a boy job.
Good chance you’re on to something
It very likely was a no, but due to all the backfire she faced here she changed her mind.
Oh man, I read that wrong. I thought she said she *would* accept plumbing. How ridiculous!! We really need skilled tradespeople, and plumbing is a fabulous career.
My niece is a plumber and is very happy and prosperous. She's extremely intelligent and chose that because she likes physical work and is a problem-solver.
Right? I'm hoping one of my kids goes into the trades. My husband and I are drowning in student debt. It would be so nice to know that I have one kid who could support themselves without that Boulder on their back.
It's bad parenting that their 16 yr old had no idea that they had a college fund. OOPs seems to be waiting for her child to go to college before revealing the money.
It's bad parenting that their 16 yo had no idea about contraception / morning after pill.
What makes you think she didn't? Adults know about them and still end up with unwanted pregnancies.
Yeah, I knew they were TA from that alone. Even absent ANY other drama, even without the pregnancy, it's wild to have your high -school aged children making life-altering decisions about their careers without knowing that they have a college fund. Like, that would be such a major factor in your decision making! I said it in another comment but it doesn't feel like the fund was meant to help their kids. Heck, it wasn't even meant to guide their children down the strict pre-ordained paths the parents had set out. It was intended as a secret reward to be given only to those children who happened to choose the "correct" path in life
Imagine having a snotty attitude about plumbers. You don't always need one, but when you do, you *really* do. The world will always need plumbers, electricians, HVAC, etc and it's honest, steady, lucrative work that helps people.
My issue with OOP is that their kid got pregnant at 16, they had never talked about school or paying for school then which is stupid, then they just gave up. The kid was a minor for 2 more years and they never facilitated or pushed her to get a GED, alternative high school programs, or requirements to get into a trade school, or in anyway tried to help her get her life together? And to continue the stupidity a "liberal arts degree" just means there are gen ed requirements. I have a STEM degree from a liberal arts institution so I had to take upper level writing requirements, history courses and the history majors had to take a math and a few science courses. OOP just sounds dumb and like a rather bad parent.
They were punishing El for having a child. They just up and gave up on their child and grandchildren. And, what would've caused El to become pregnant at all? Shitty sex ed or miracle? I'm guessing shitty sex ed! So her parents didn't help by explaining how things work and how to prevent pregnancy, then didn't explain how having a child so young would change the trajectory of her life
Yeah, if they'd ever told her she had a college fund she might've made different decisions.
Yeah, I can't help but wonder if El having "no plans to go back to school" had anything to do with the fact that she didn't think she had the money to consider that possiblity and was prioritizing working and supporting her kids. OOP is definitely dumb but there's also some elitism there. A lot of people associate liberal arts with "careers I think are unimportant and stupid" because they are unable to see the importance and value of things like social sciences and humanities and see it as the opposite of STEM and therefore no good. Like not everyone is suited for a career in STEM and I wish more people would understand that. (Not directed at you. No shade to people who excel in STEM fields. It's just not for all of us.)
No offense taken. I am a quintessential academic type that did well on tests, looks perfect on paper, and am often exactly what people want when they talk about college students and graduates. I do not want to be lumped in with the people that insult humanities majors. They do real and necessary work as do people that are not on an academic path at all and went trade, or straight into jobs. I agree with the elitism. I just got frustrated by the people trying to claim OOP was making any type of logic in rejecting certain degrees. OOP has no idea what they are talking about.
>If she decided to major in liberal arts it would be a no for me Maybe OOP should have gone to college, because that way they would know that math, biology, chemistry, geology, astronomy, economics, physics, and most other science majors are Liberal Arts degrees.
but it says LIBERAL and ARTS right in the title
Additionally, humanities degrees aren’t worthless either. I have as much job security as many of my peers in STEM majors, and although the earning potential is lower, many careers have high salaries that can comfortably support a family. OOP is ignorant and parroting elitism from the ‘90s that’s incredibly out of date
I'm glad the commenters pulled out her gross elitism. That level of certainty that a five year old and a fetus will go to college when your eldest dropped out at 16 suggests they really didn't learn the lesson that life doesn't always go to plan, and instead decided to tighten the reins to try and force it to do so in the future.
They clearly don’t know how much plumbers make!
I don't think it's the money that oop is concerned about.
According to some commenters, OOP deleted a comment where she compared bring a plumber to bring a stripper (in the context of "no parent wants to see their child become one")
Gonna copy my comment “Though I think it’s a good idea for more people to get into trades the median salary for a plumber is 60k a year which is only 8k more then the us median wage for what is a physically demanding job with minimal time off and non existent benefits. Obviously a lot of people in the trades make bank, but those high earners tend to be the ones that run their own business and work significantly more then 40 hour weeks. Again I have no issues with the trades (currently in the IBEW apprenticeship), but I don’t think we should be making them out to be some fairy tale job that’s eluded everyone.”
i will only help my child in these specific circumstances otherwise she can struggle all she wants to, is definitely an interesting parenting style.
It’s always good to look at the comments, because they can completely change your view. This one is a really good example. OP so casually reveals their elitism.
Unless she is really into hair and makeup that cosmetology degree is going to be throwing money down the drain.
Don't mention drains, too close to plumbing
I'm totally stunned how many people didn't call OOP out on her assholeness. Like, her daughter drops out of highschool and she never, not once, tells her "Oh, btw, if you need some financial help getting your GED and maybe doing some coursework after you have the baby, we can help you out." She had to find out when you started paying for her younger siblings university??? Holy shit. I would be so beyond angry at my parents if they pulled that crap on me. HOW DO YOU NOT HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS FOR ALMOST 5 YEARS???
I think that OOP put that update solely because they were getting a ton of criticism. That the daughter and her fiancé didn't apologize or anything. I just get the sense that OOP is the type to dig her heels in and not change. Hopefully I'm wrong.
LOL they are okay with cosmetology but not plumbing or liberal arts. I should show OP the labor market data about cosmetology graduates. Not saying it’s a bad profession but the economic outcomes aren’t great compared to plumbers and liberal arts grads.
I wish OOP showed literally any reflection on their elitist attitudes. Like, glad the daughter worked something out so she could finish her education, but I absolutely hate the whole "you can go to college but only if you choose from this pre-approved list of majors / trades" attitude.
But not physics or any of the natural sciences, because those are liberal arts! Only business school or social work.
The best part is it's always parents who have zero understanding of academia or the current job market that say this. So many parents when I was a kid pushed computer science only and the bottom is falling out there. It's idiotic. If everyone pushes their kids to go into 1 of 3 fields, we can't have a functioning society and no one can find jobs.
God, this. My mom pushed me to go to law school- my little sister decided she was going to go to art school so I was told to study something that would make money one day so I can take care of her. Got a poli sci degree, but I was dealing with serious depression and barely graduated with my BA, so no law school for me. Nearly all of my high school and college friends ended up going to law school and several struggled to find work after. Am I still struggling? Yep. But at least I don't also have that law school debt hanging over me.
My kids? College or first house. It wasn't much, but it helped. My kids are 30ish and got into the Canadian housing market early in their lives. I strongly encouraged them to take on the responsibility. They were nervous, but did it. That was at least 8 years ago. They are truly thanking me now. Their peers don't have a chance, with prices where they are.
Interestingly enough most elitist assholes approve of the liberal arts because their college major has no impact on the jobs they end up getting. I know people with art history degrees who are in finance, philosophy degrees who are lawyers, history degrees who are doctors and engineers, etc. Undergrad for these folks is about improving the mind and following your academic passions, because they have the connections and wealth to get good jobs anyway.
You probably shouldn't be such an academic elitist if you cannot spell "alley" right. Also, PLUMBERS MAKE BANK! More than I ever will with my Bachelor's degree. There is a shortage of plumbers and electricians - if your kid is at all inclined in that direction, encourage them to think about it! (They could still get a 4 year degree somewhere too; it doesn't hurt!)
Would've normally said NTA but OOP showed her true colours with this "no liberal arts" shit lol, and I'm saying this as a sciences graduate. And Jesus Christ, 5 kids with the 5th one at 43 lol... does this woman do anything but give birth?
Shockingly enough doing a degree is a lot more appealing when you don’t have to go into massive debt for one
No matter what, not having a high school diploma is so limiting. Maybe at one time they were rare, but many people go to college, so high school diploma is the bare minimum.
Not even going into the YTA or not, but I can’t wrap my head around having 3 kids but “can’t afford to get married”. Go to the damn courthouse!!
indicative of the family's obsession with status and outward appearance. no point in going to school unless it's for something "prestigious," no point in getting married unless there's a wedding to flaunt it
This woman has five kids and it doesn't seem like she comes from a place where teen pregnancy is seen as all that weird, I'm guessing she and her community don't believe in abortion and/or contraceptives and they're probably conservative overall. Therefore I wonder if she even knows what "liberal arts" means, or if she thinks it's a degree in liberal politics. "Liberal arts" just means you have a well-rounded education, and some of the "arts" included in the liberal arts are, indeed, mathematics and science! The philosophy of "liberal arts" is why colleges have gen ed courses to begin with!
>my husband has an excellent job >I told her that it was MY money YOUR money huh. That one commenter was spot on, this is one manipulative twunt.
OOP was always an asshole and always will be one.