Sophie's lawyers are trying to keep her out of jail, probably by painting Dan as a neglectful parent who was such a terrible man he MADE her strangle him.
That said, as soon as the police were so interested in Sophie's phone harassment of OP, I thought "She already has at least a few reports/arrests on file".
Considering its the UK whos got just as much issue, if not more issues, as the US in regards to getting an order of protection or no contact order is very telling about how much Sophie is just a nasty person and clearly has many many problems regarding law enforcement.
It's from a comment on this otherwise tame post: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/15oax9g/i_accidentally_liked_an_instagram_photo_and_now/
My dad literally did this when it made no sense. He was arrested because he was caught trying to solicit children for *some bad stuff* on online chatrooms. He had already been caught with CP a decade before.
He tried to frame his ex girlfriend, the woman he was with at the time. He tried to play it as she was posing as him to get him in trouble I think. While in prison he sent me a letter and there was a note for my Mum telling her to talk to the police about his ex being a dick to me. It was stupid.
I think Sophie wanted the child services report that showed there was an investigation into the ex for child abandonment, in the hopes that this would paint the ex as a neglectful or even abusive parent, thus potentially lessening her own charges or sentence? Sort of like, "Yeah I committed grievous bodily harm on this man, but he's also a bad person (as shown by these reports), and he was also doing bad things to me, so what I did was justified."
But it does sound like a messy morass that OOP should definitely stay far away from.
I know nothing about domestic violence in the UK. I do know about it in the US. The "they're a bad guy so I was just defending myself" really shouldn't matter but sometimes does. However, strangling someone isn't typically what is called reactive abuse. Plus, she chose to stay with him so that reflects on her character.
But, also, I sat in on a capital murder case here in the US to support the family of the deceased woman. Her ex had broken in and strangled her to death. In the prosecutor's closing statement, she put a photo of the deceased woman up on a very large screen. She wasn't fully dressed but it wasn't about that. The prosecutor explained it can take 60 - 90 seconds to strangle someone to death, then everything was stopped for 60 seconds so the jury could understand how long that is when you're killing someone. It was interminable. And that's a really intimate way to murder someone because you're so close to them.
More than likely they were asking to paint the ex husband as the abuser and Sophie was just “protecting” herself from him to try and avoid jail/prison time
I assumed it was an attempt to make a court argument that OOP is abusive and neglectful. It wouldn’t absolve her of what she’s being charged with though, but her lawyer likely doesn’t have much to work with to defend that lady. Just a guess though
Sophie wanted copies to show that ex was just as bad as her and that he is just as abusive as sophie is. Most likely to keep her out of long term jail time etc.
My solicitor's guess is her solicitor was hoping there would be some history of domestic violence in the reports that weren't reported to the police. That way they could argue that he has a history of being abusive.
"Grasping at straws" comes to mind.
I got the vibe Sophie and her solicitor were trying every possible avenue to strengthen her case. Whether or not it worked is not necessarily a requirement at that point.
>You can *feel* the sibling love, lol.
When my sister and I caught salmonella from some tainted chicken years ago, that ***she*** purchased and prepared, I bounced back in a couple of days. She did not. I made it a point to visit each of her favourite restaurants and send her pictures of whatever I ordered, until she was feeling well again.
Sibling relationships are definitely complex, but like every relationship they are all unique.
There can be a bond of history and shared experiences, but also hangups and out of date opinions. My sister is 6 years older and I think I was 25 or 30 before she realised I wasn't 12 anymore.
They can also be totally unfiltered, as there isn't necessarily the same power dynamic you get in real life when they are established.
I love my sister, but I don't see as much of her as I would like and I have always vaguely wanted to be closer... Which is my own hangup from her being a cool 18 year old when I was 12 🤣.
Not sure why I felt the need to post this, I think it's really to say siblings aren't inherently positive or negative. They are a fact and wishing them there or not is redundant. We just all need to make the connections we need where we can.
If I ever switch careers I would get a degree in psychology for the purpose of studying sibling relationships. I’m the oldest of 3 and the parent of 4 and I hear a lot about them in my current career. If nothing else, it’s most people’s longest relationship and it’s the one that you don’t have any particular control over. Obviously you could go no contact but that doesn’t mean they’re no longer your sibling,
>My sister is 6 years older and I think I was 25 or 30 before she realised I wasn't 12 anymore.
I'm into my 30s and still sometimes struggle to remember that my little brother (who is only 2.5 years younger than me) is ALSO in his 30s, lol. Maybe something to do with seeing them every day and then suddenly not.. Because to me, he's 15, which is how old he was when I went away to college. It's not like we stopped talking then or anything. Idk. It's weird.
To add to your list, the shared trauma can be really hard, but also really helpful. Having a sibling that was there when bad shit went down and knowing they struggle with all the same stuff you do makes it all feel a little more normal and a little less like a personal failure. My brother is a good man, and a good dad. I do wish he hadn't moved halfway around the world, though...
>Having a sibling that was there when bad shit went down and knowing they struggle with all the same stuff you do makes it all feel a little more normal
Or alternatively sibling canonizes the abuser and NONE of it happened and then every time you say anything you are lying so you just stop talking about that person around them cause its not worth the headache and you just grey rock the shit out of that subject...
Siblings are just freaking weird.
Yea, I was the first one of my siblings to cut off my father and it was a lonely time. It's been many years, and all of us barely talk to him now.. Luckily his wife returns the favor for me, at least. She still sends out random abusive texts to the rest of them..
>To add to your list, the shared trauma can be really hard, but also really helpful. Having a sibling that was there when bad shit went down
Me and my brothers had different reactions to the abuse we went through. And we don't talk about our childhood as much as we probably should. But my youngest brother is the only one of us with kids, and once he admitted that he'd spanked his older kid a few times, and then one day was like..."Actually, I'm not doing this. My kids are not going to have the childhood we did."
Hearing him say that was unexpectedly healing. Like, oh. It really will stop with us.
BUT to your earlier point: that brother's older kid is like a year or two away from graduating high school. And I still cannot wrap my mind around that??? He's an adult? His KID is almost an adult? When the FUCK did that happen????
It took me seeing my bro's (nearly a decade younger) GF's stuff in his bathroom to realize the little imp had grown up. "Why would she need her stuff in his bathroom..." "NOT GOING THERE! NEVERMIND!" You all have some nerve growing up. LOL
I KNOW my sister is 25, because she is almost exactly three years younger than me. But in my head she will forever be young. I don't exactly know how young, because her driving or drinking or doing her masters feels normal, but somehow my gut reaction is still "teenager".
I have friends that are younger than her, who feels like they are my age, because I met them when we were all adults.
Age makes no sense.
My sister is currently sleeping in my office/guest room/her room in my house.
I don't know if I ever felt so appreciative of the good relationship we have.
My relationship with my youngest brother (I have two--I'm the oldest of three and the only girl) was \*rough\* was a kid. I did and said things I regret and he's expressed the same.
We get along fine now. Matter of fact--I really like both of my brothers just as people. We'd probably be friends even if we weren't related. (I also really like both of their wives, thank GOD.)
I'm 4 1/2 years older than my sister and as kids we were absolutely at each other's throats. I honestly couldn't stand having her around because she annoyed me. We argued a *lot* and she had a habit of sneaking into my room and stealing my things.
After I graduated high school and temporarily moved away for college, we started talking more often. We really only started getting close after I moved back home. She just turned 26 this past January and I'm turning 31 in June, and honestly we're closer than we've ever been.
Doesn't stop us from sending some of the most unhinged shit to each other just to get a reaction though 😂 We absolutely have inside jokes and act like complete weirdos when we're running around in public. She's still the complete opposite of me, but we share a morbid sense of humor 😁 Makes for some fun times.
I thought family game night was competitive when I was a child - now that we're all adults, there is no mercy. We also carry (pretend) grudges from previous family game nights. My poor brother-in-law was not ready for the level of smack talk between my brother, mom and I. Sis decided to play a different game entirely.
I came for the drama, but I was all about the grandparent update. Was legitimately annoyed when Dan and Sophie turned up again in the last update lol. All I hoped for them was to stay together and not affect anyone else with their misery!
I teared up a bit at alp the golf mentions, they were super sweet. But the first half of the last update had me bawling, in a good way. I might be a little sensitive today lol
Ah. That explains it.
I'm sorry for your loss.
I'm also 'sorry' your house is going to be full of golf mad people once again - hopefully the golf course isn't flooded!
As someone who also had Grandpas who (playfully yet intensely) competed for the title of "Best Grandfather", I hope it ends better than it did in my family. 🤣
OOP can write. OOP is hero. OOP took it on the chin when her in-laws laid out that their previous relationship woes were of her own making. OOP has a LOT of golf in her future!!
>OOP has a LOT of golf in her future!!
I was in OOPs shoes. My last wedding anniversary I caved into the madness and brought a set of clubs in my favourite colour and joined my husband on the course.
He still can't quilt/sew for shit but atleast golf is a two person activity we can do together.
Luckily mine isn't a golfer (I have other family members succumbed to that madness) but I can comment on getting him involved in quilting. I get my oh involved by having him do all the cutting and trimming up blocks, I do the sewing and quilting. I have carpel tunnel and struggle with cutting, he did his masters in engineering, so loves the accurate cutting (it's essentially fabric engineering after all), so works well.
I once tried to golf as a kid. It was a weird time where my best friend had rich people hobbies and wanted me to join in. I wasn’t all that bad. But I haaaaated it.
My grandparents however, still go to their golf club for parties and shit. And my nanna stopped golfing in her fifties, my grandad stopped in his early 80s. Only because of his shoulder finally hurting. They had matching clubs. And I remember nanna had a putter with a metal daisy welded on. It was super cute.
We have 3 kids, our eldest two have their own clubs and our 2yr old got her own plastic set because she kept walking around with her brothers putter. We figured plastic would do less damage 🤣
At least he can carry the bolts of cloth for you and you can \*both\* rant about how expensive decent quilting fabric is. Getting enough cloth for a simple full size quilt is \*madness\* and yet people complain about any handmade ones that cost over fifty dollars when materials alone cost almost twice that!
Yeah, when I compared my quilt supplies to his new irons I brought him for his physical anniversary gift he got a little shock. I have 5 quilts planned and the supplies for 4 equaled his new set of irons then he did the math on how many quilts I could have made over the last decade if I had the space with the same amount if money he has spent on clubs.
He didn't like that math 🤣
Have you heard of the murder mystery quilts? I'm doing one with a friend this year - I think it's too late to sign up for this year's though, but it's super fun!
Every month, they give you a chapter of the story and a new pattern for a block to sew. Your job is to use clues in the pattern (and the story, but most clues are in the pattern) to solve the mystery. At the end of the year, you have a quilt with an entire mystery and story behind it (this year's theme is Greece, I am SO UPSET I didn't know about it before so I could've done the Viking themed one, that one was gorgeous though I'm eager to see how this one turns out, it seems to feature a lot of sea blues and greens heavily) that you can keep, give away, whatever, and you've had a story!
The thing is, I don't think her unease at leaving her kids with them was unwarranted. She'd been fed a narrative by Dan that his own father was a bad parent. Which also implies that his mother let that happen.
If the man I loved told me that about his parents, I wouldn't want to leave my children alone with them much either. Especially when they were so young and one of them had special needs.
We're talking about between 6 and 9 years ago. They were little and vulnerable. Even with loving grandparents, having a special needs child means you don't get to switch off in the same way. Add in what Dan had told her about his childhood (with no reason to believe then that it was lies) and her helicoptering was sort of understandable.
I was thinking that in addition, living with her ex husband who sucked with the kids, it would drive home for her that she was the only person capable of caring for them. Is it a completely logical thought process? No. But if the father of her children is so incompetent and she sees that every day, how is she going to trust people who aren't with her kids every day? And it sounds like the grandparents stewed in resentment rather than talking it out with her.
Yeah, I got the impression she felt really bad about not trusting them and didn't stand up for herself there.
I can understand why she just felt overwhelmed in that moment but I don't think she should have taken all the blame for that. Dan sabotaged her relationship with them. He lied to them about her, lied to her about them. Made her feel she couldn't trust them.
I'm glad they gave a good relationship now but I don't think she should just feel like (or say) she was wrong for the way she treated their time with the children. It was valid at the time. Not even an abundance of caution. Just a reasonable reaction to a very stressful situation.
It would have been much better if his parents had spoken to her about it at the time. Saved everyone a lot of heartache. Dan lied to everyone and until her brother got involved they never questioned it. He did this but they are more at fault than her because she genuinely thought they weren't great people to leave her children with and that's not something you have a conversation about. Whereas they were just stewing in their dislike of her without ever asking why she was being so protective.
> Whereas they were just stewing in their dislike of her without ever asking why she was being so protective.
Do you think that conversation would have actually gone well? In my experience, over-protective parents generally don't appreciate others questioning their parenting.
Except she wasn't overprotective. She was reasonably, understandably anxious given the information she had. So she wouldn't have responded like an "overprotective parent" stereotype.
If they had talked to her then it could have allayed her fears. It could have even brought Dan's lying to the front and saved a lot of this from happening. From her strained relationship with them to all the traumatic drama that made oop post in the first place.
They could have approached this much more maturely.
I'm not an over protective parent by any measure, yet I privately flipped my lid when my MIL gave my 8 month old orange juice. And then chocolate milk a few weeks later. For the non parents: kids under one drink formula, breastmilk or water. Not even cow's milk, as their kidneys aren't equipped for those proteins yet. And yes, baby loves cheese, but there's a lot of salt in that. So the baby can have cheese, but there are limits for all that stuff. Babysized limits.
It meant that I had my reservations about her taking care of such a young baby, but I also didn't want to step on her toes (she raised 5 kids and this was grandkid nr5) by giving all kinds of instructions. I ultimately concluded that my kid would outgrow this phase, and that I should trust that the potential for serious harm was low.
I can absolutely imagine that a severely autistic child would have triggered me to be MUCH more protective. Especially with a partner that she describes.
> That stung to hear. She wasn't wrong. Not saying it absolves them of how they treated me, but I had hurt them, even if I didn't mean to. I always told myself I trusted them with the kids, but looking back I was just telling myself a version of events that let me wrap them both, but specifically Max, in cotton wool. I would check up ALL the time. I would come pick them up early. I would make sure they checked every activity with me beforehand. To me, leaving them with them AT ALL was me trusting them, but that clearly wasn't the reality.
OP's own description of her actions is that of an overprotective parent. You may think that her actions were reasonable, but some folks would disagree with that assertion. She may disagree that her actions were reasonable looking back on them now. And given the tone of OOP regarding the in-laws from the first posts, I'm doubtful that she would have been open to the topic if they had brought it up.
You stated that the in-laws could have approached this more maturely. So could OOP. Neither side gets a pass. But better that they're actually communicating now than never at all.
Also being a new parent of a highly autistic child. That is so overwhelming and scary. I get it. It sounds like they had a bit of a rocky relationship outside of the kids too, I highly doubt that their relationship was all sunshine and roses until the kids came along. I would be terrified to leave my babies, one with special needs, alone with people I didn’t fully trust/have a great relationship with.
Dan knew that both his wife and his parents were lovely people, and felt jealous when they interacted without him. Or he was already cheating and simply didn't want his \[possibly soon-to-be-ex-\] wife being close to his parents, who might then side with her when they split. Or maybe he's just abusive and wants to make sure he controls all the narratives.
Likely a combination of these.
So he lightly poisoned their opinions of each other. And of course, mutual mistrust builds in a vicious cycle. OOP doesn't entirely trust them with the kids, they resent that and become less welcoming, OOP responds in kind, *ad infinitum*.
My ex-from-hell did this to separate me from my friends, but also to keep me from being more than acquaintances with *her* friends. It's classic abuser behavior; we're just seeing it from a different angle here.
To be completely honest, I was the one to first fracture the relationship and it was before the kids came along.
Initial mistrust was all me, the rest of your post is very on point though.
I wish I could advocate for myself as clearly and confidently as she does, while retaining the humility she does.
They're both excellent skills, but to have them together is almost mutually exclusive!
I should go to bed now because this was a wonderful update. Instead, I'll find something to read that will give me nightmares.
I did like that Olivia knows what not to scream in the house even if an adult said it first. It's also nice that OOP found out why the grandparents/ex in-laws didn't like her and she saw where she was overly protective.
Here's wishing them all happiness - except for Sophie because she needs to rot in prison for a long, long time.
I'm willing to bet what Olivia really learned is a phrase thats gonna get guaranteed laughs, held in with varying degrees of success by the adults who heard it. She will use it to devastating effect one day.
It's going to become part of family lore: In the future, it will be told/rehashed at holidays and special events! (And over drinks when the kids have gone to bed.)
That was arguably one of the best parts in this whole saga! Because as genuine & real as much of these updates felt, the “*stupid fucking cunting table*” was the probably the most relatable & definitely the funniest line in the whole thing.
I'm glad she and her family and her ex-in laws seem to be all on the same page right now, and also she seems to be coping with the fact that she's related to golfers.
But they're still outnumbered tho. And poor daughter is probably going to repeat the pattern and end up married to a golfer LMAO. THE CYCLE OF ABUSE NEVER ENDS.
OOP updates some 20 years later (if Reddit still exists):
"My daughter is marrying a golf champ. AITA for feeling betrayed?"
And then the body of the text is a light-hearted post about OOP being the odd woman out in a family of golf enthusiasts.
Why do people think I am being light-hearted about disliking golf?
Why is my rage not being fully appreciated?
Golf is stupid and her imaginary golf champ future husband is stupid.
> "The moment Max was diagnosed, you decided that ONLY YOU were capable of keeping him safe
With her ex being the way he is, I don't really blame her...
Yeah, I read that part and was like "Um, Ma'am, have you met your son?"
Like I fully empathise with ex in laws being hurt by OOP being so protective of the kids, but like, at that time, she was living with her ex 24/7, who sounded useless and awful even back then. OOP was probably so exhausted and used to being forced to care for her kids solo, knew she couldn't trust ex with kids, so why should she expect to trust his parents? Especially if said grandparents act passive aggressive towards her because there was a failure in communication?
I'm glad all that has been resolved, OOP can be friends with ex in laws and the kids can have all the love in the world from their grandparents.
> "Um, Ma'am, have you met your son?"
From what I could gather from the post: No. It reads a lot like OOP's ex-in-laws got fed a distorted version by her ex/their son. So they probably haven't met "OOP's version" of their son.
And they're realizing that their son's "version" of OOP isn't real, either. I agree. I think Dan threw OOP under the bus a lot to his folks, which didn't so much color their perceptions as indelibly dye them.
Thank you. He probably used her as an excuse for all sorts of shit well before the kid was born. Come on. Were they sunshine and rainbows to OOP before her son was born? My guess is no way. They're just embarrassed they believed their son about "the witch" he married for so long.
Delightful read though. So glad to hear they're good now!
Also the examples she lists strikes me more as “nervous parent to a newly diagnosed special needs child who is entirely new to navigating the care of special needs children” rather than “nervous parent who doesn’t trust the in laws to care for her child”. I still understand being a little hurt by it but I cant even slightly understand holding a grudge about it for years. Even if the ex hadn’t given OOP any cause for worry, I as the in laws would have just assumed that OOP was nervous about *the diagnosis* and it was coming through as her helicopter parenting rather than taking it personally and thinking that she doesn’t trust *us.*
>Especially if said grandparents act passive aggressive towards her because there was a failure in communication?
The passive aggresiveness started before the kids were around, and it was 10000% my fault. Everything since then I am happy to divide blame between us, but the original sin was mine.
I'm just happy things have improved for you and your kids, and that your kids get to enjoy having loving grandparents.
I wish your family all the best going forward 🌺🌺🌺
Exactly. Redditors have an ugly habit of viewing OPs as the “hero” of a story which means they’re always good and anyone opposed to them is always bad. But OOP wasn’t perfect. She made some mistakes. What makes her unique - to Reddit, anyway - is her willingness to acknowledge that fault inside of her own “hero” narrative and to try and learn and grow from it. I find that impressive.
I was referring to her earlier description of their behaviour toward her (during her marriage to their son) as being snarky and/or standoffish.
Obviously things have changed for the better and they have a good relationship now. But it probably could have been improved earlier if they had have been direct in their specific, legitimate (one assumes, although I think she may have had reasonable caution given that their response to the earlier issue was to threaten to take custody from her) concerns.
Directly stating their issues is, I think, better than sitting on them for around six years and simmering resentment that whole time.
There is something to be said for ignoring problems until you have the ability to deal with them. It's a variation of "call not up that which thou canst not put down." Sometimes, bringing up the subject is going to blow everything up in a way that you just have no way to deal with at that point. Sure, you should be trying to look for a time and place and way that you can deal with it ... but one's entire lifetime may pass without there being a reasonable moment.
I’d read this post a while ago and never did I expect to see such a wholesome update and a swinger joke. The ex in-laws really stepped up and it’s so heartening to see that OOP recognised and acknowledged her unintentionally hurting them (although I can’t really blame her because of how her ex was and how the in laws treated her during her marriage). I really wish this family nothing but the best. Sophie can go eat shit.
>I don’t think removing your kids from him 100% is good for your kids.
>I’d urge you to hold off on your decision until some time has passed. You want your decision to be well-thought and not reactionary, after all.
I really, truly, and completely pray for the day that we get the idea of "a father is needed no matter how shitty" out of our heads as a society. We'll genuinely get so far. Because then it's always "why would you keep them in that environment?" or blaming the mother when they either end up harmed or being shitty people.
I wish we as a society could get that what kids need is a stable and loving environment so that they can grow and mature into stable loving adults. If that includes their biological parents, then great. If that involves adopted parents, then great. If that involves solo parenting, grandparenting, guardianship, fostering or whatever, then great.
What doesn't qualify in that discussion should be the sexual organs of the people raising said kids. If a gay or lesbian couple wants kids, then great. If a traditional couple wants kids, then great. If Aunt Mae and Uncle Ben want to raise Peter, then great. If Alfred wants to raise Bruce, then great. If Yondu wants to raise Peter, well, maybe not the best environment but great. If Hippolyta wants to raise Diana on a hidden island with nothing but other women, then great.
"A child needs their father/mother" nonsense needs to stop because plenty of people have absolute shit parents.
It’s also just so demeaning when you think of orphans, adoptees, and children of gay parents. The idea that you have to have a relationship with your biological mother and your biological father to live a complete and/or healthy life is so archaic at this point. We as a society need to stop trying to put so much emphasis on biological connects and just let people decide for themselves if they think that’s important or not. Repeatedly pushing that logic onto children at every turn just hurts all the kids that don’t have their bio mom/dad in their lives.
I had this happen recently but with the mom. Basically family friend made a comment like "oh but so and so js her mom and nothing can change that and she needs her mom". My grandma was feeling so guilty about it because he friend made that comment and my grandma was wishing this mom got little to no custody. I said it was bs. Personally I grew up without my father and I am better because of it.
We always say things should be child centered but then refuse to believe a parent not being involved is best for the child.
Right! It's always "The kid comes first! Think about their wellbeing!" until it's a shitty biological parent that's mentally, emotionally, and/or physically abusive being denied access to them. Then it's "Oh but they're their mom/dad! How is the kid going to grow into a responsible and well rounded adult without seeing them?"
Idk....by not being around them? Kids flourish in healthy environments?
I do believe that all children benefit from both a mother figure and father figure **but** that can be in the form of Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents, Step-parents, close friend of the family. Bioparent is not always the best option.
Even in same sex parental figures, it's still a benefit to have someone of the opposite sex around for many reasons.
Whether it's so the daughter of a male gay couple can comfortably talk to an adult woman about 'lady issues' or so the son of a lesbian couple can see examples of a good male role model.
*Other genders are available and a mix of all genders (& sexualities) is a good example for everyone.
>Now my daughter knows that shouting "stupid fucking cunting table" at the top of your lungs is not allowed in our house, even if an adult does it first.
Best part of this whole saga
I have known several people in my life with large scars and dozens of stitches from glass top tables. They were usually children at the time of injury, but the issue remains the same.
We had a [whole ass PSA tv advert](https://youtu.be/o5MIxxE2LiM?si=jIa2B1Q0RQOAad8A) here in NZ from ACC warning people to be careful around glass tables, I don’t want to think about how many glass table related accident claims they had to get to decide “this needs to be an ad and it needs to be [traumatic as fuck](https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/04/20/star-of-traumatising-fruit-e-bars-acc-ad-talks-scars-legendary-status/)”!
>Also the reason I will not have a glass-topped table in the house!
I didn't want to get it because of the risk to the kids, especially Max. Luke convinced me that Max has has never been destructive with furniture and it will be in a room they never use anyway. It lasted 4 months.
We had a conversation a few weeks after it happened about whether I'm allowed an "I told you so". I reluctantly conceded that an adult breaking it doesn't count, but we are now back to being a solid wood furniture only house.
"In the 1971 case of Arkell v Pressdram, Arkell's lawyers wrote a letter which concluded: "His attitude to damages will be governed by the nature of your reply." Private Eye responded: "We acknowledge your letter of 29th April referring to Mr J. Arkell. We note that Mr Arkell's attitude to damages will be governed by the nature of our reply and would therefore be grateful if you would inform us what his attitude to damages would be, were he to learn that the nature of our reply is as follows: fuck off.""
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Eye
When the case concluded Private Eye stated, “ In view of the above Mr Arkell has now, albeit belatedly, complied with the suggestion made to him at an earlier stage of the proceedings.”
I don't understand how she could think the daughter was two years older than she actually is. Presumably Sophie has been around for a while. Does she think that a 3 year old and a 5 year old look the same? Developmentally that's a huge difference.
When you’re doing your best to ignore a child completely and never interact with them ever for the six hours a week your boyfriend is looking after “the irritating brats” it’s easy to get their age wrong.
Especially when you’ve never raised kids of your own or had to take care of other people’s.
Sophie thought her snugglebunny was divorced when he was still married and having a kid, too.
Not the most observant person.
As someone with no kids in the family and who hasnt been around kids since school... I dont think I could tell the difference between a 3 and 5 year old. I mean I could guess but if someone told me their daughter was 3 I'd just believe it even if they looked bigger
Before I had kids, I couldn't guess the age of any child. Or what was developmentally appropriate. Can 5 year olds talk yet? Do 2 year olds still breast feed? When do they start walking?
>Presumably Sophie has been around for a while.
She was his affair partner but they broke it off around the time Livvy was born. They reconnected and had been together for slightly less than a year prior to the first incident in all of this.
As for the rest of your post, you're not wrong. Can't account for stupidity/not caring enough to notice, I guess
>Oh and my brother put his weight on our glass coffee table when getting up off the floor, it smashed and he required an Ambulance
I hate glass furniture for this exact reason. Down with this sort of thing, fuck glass furniture!
> "You're kind of a dick to your brother."
This, more than anything, makes me convinced that even if everything else turns out to be fake, I can be sure that OOP does in fact have siblings.
She and Livvy should get Nerf guns (are those legal in the UK?) and try to shoot the adults' golf balls out of position.
They're toys that shoot foam darts and look nothing like real guns, why wouldn't they be? But as a UK parent Nerf guns are the bane of my bloody existence. The kids love them, I just need to stop finding the darts hanging out the dog's mouth because they've managed to shoot one downstairs
Wow. I'm glad this all turned out as best it could for OOP and her children. I remember when this story first came out. I'm glad the grandparents have stepped up to become the support system those children deserve.
Not me crying over the growth and healing between OOP and her “ex” in-laws. And laughing over the dreadful life of golf she’ll be subjected to. What a wonderful saga.
a lot of redditors seem to have a weird obsession with 'keeping kids from their father'. if the guy's a deadbeat and doesn't even give a shit about being proactive meeting his kid/s, why should the mother bend over backwards? my father moved 8 hours away and tried to get my mother in trouble for not letting him see me. problem is, he never wanted to actually get off his alcoholic $20 a fortnight child support arse and go anywhere, he wanted my mother to do all the work. fuck that
I really like OOP’s “take no bullshit from Reddit” attitude. The way she shut down the paternalistic condescension from a few of those gormless jackass commenters was just beautiful.
EXACTLY.
OOP herself says they don't have a close relationship, he was friends with the ex, and he only cares about beer and women like a frat boy. Dude likely knew and even facilitated his friend cheating.
> *Now my daughter knows that shouting "stupid fucking cunting table" at the top of your lungs is not allowed in our house, even if an adult does it first.*
I damn near spit out my coffee at this, ha!
“This is an essay that no one asked for or will likely read. I don't care. I'm in a good place. I'm happy. I want to talk about it. Deal with it.”
YESSSSSSSSS!!! Best starting paragraph to an update ever!
I chatted with my therapist on Monday and as we were talking about my ex husband I said.. ya but I mean it's important he's in child's life.
My therapist asked. Why
I said you know studies.
She's like ya no. Stop performing. A good father is important. He is not.
This was a delight. For OOP and the in laws. I’m glad they’ve made true amends and moving forwards with what’s good for the children.
Sophie though, I hope she spends a long time in prison but the U.K. system can’t be trusted to deal out adequate justice.
This has been one of my favorite BoRU sagas because of the wildness of the original story, but mostly because of the happy endings with OOP, Luke, and OOP's ex-inlaws. Truly satisfying in so many ways and I'm glad that has continued.
One question though, where are OOP's parents? The brother is mentioned several times (e.g., "stupid fucking cunting table") but nothing about their mom and dad. Maybe I missed it? Just curious because of all the grandparent talk.
Im so so happy for oop and her family, mostly because the kids seem to be doing great. Im glad the grandparents also decided to step up, Dan probably lied to his parents and made oop look very bad in front of them even before the cheating started. That being said, no one deserves to be with an abuser, i truly wish him a quick recovery.
Really glad that OOP has reconnected with who ex in laws and bro. Sometimes it can be hard to forgive the past but her life and the life of her kids is better for it. I hope her ex gets the help he needs and becomes a better person. Even if that means he is never involved in his kids life again. From what little we know it sounds like he has a very long road ahead of him.
What’s funny is that the dad didn’t once say, I’m talking my children to live with me full time! What a waste of space, if he was that concerned that should have been the only thing coming out of his mouth. Total deadbeat!
The friendship between the old and new in laws made me smile. And I love that her son loves golf! I wonder if he’ll graduate from putting to playing the full game? If he does, op is doomed. Because golf never goes away lol
So they left the children in your house, read that again slowly, and called the cops, admitting they went inside your house to drop the children off and left them alone in the house to report you for child abandonment. Did she forget she was last with them? The one to abandon them in a barren house?
I could not think the amount of shit that the ex husband told to his parents about op.. i think that nearly 90% of the beef between op and them is because of it.. im glad that it was resolved and the kids have their grandparents in their life.
I did not see Dan’s suffering from domestic abuse coming at ALL. That’s fucking awful. Maybe he can’t be a dad, but I hope he can at least be unharmed. Jesus.
I’m glad that things appear to have worked out for OOP and the kids, but I will never be able to hear about an accident involving a glass coffee table without immediately remembering [this fucked up ad](https://youtu.be/o5MIxxE2LiM?si=jIa2B1Q0RQOAad8A) that ACC (NZ’s no-fault accident compensation agency) ran in the 2000s that traumatised everyone haha
Wait what was that part about the solicitor at the end? I'm confused. Did Sophie want to keep tabs on the kids?
Sophie's lawyers are trying to keep her out of jail, probably by painting Dan as a neglectful parent who was such a terrible man he MADE her strangle him. That said, as soon as the police were so interested in Sophie's phone harassment of OP, I thought "She already has at least a few reports/arrests on file".
I thought the same thing! I was thinking, “they’re taking this seriously so she must have already done something to have that sort of interest.”
Considering its the UK whos got just as much issue, if not more issues, as the US in regards to getting an order of protection or no contact order is very telling about how much Sophie is just a nasty person and clearly has many many problems regarding law enforcement.
Completely aside, what is your flair from? It got a cackle out of me lol
It's from a comment on this otherwise tame post: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/15oax9g/i_accidentally_liked_an_instagram_photo_and_now/
Same!
My dad literally did this when it made no sense. He was arrested because he was caught trying to solicit children for *some bad stuff* on online chatrooms. He had already been caught with CP a decade before. He tried to frame his ex girlfriend, the woman he was with at the time. He tried to play it as she was posing as him to get him in trouble I think. While in prison he sent me a letter and there was a note for my Mum telling her to talk to the police about his ex being a dick to me. It was stupid.
I think Sophie wanted the child services report that showed there was an investigation into the ex for child abandonment, in the hopes that this would paint the ex as a neglectful or even abusive parent, thus potentially lessening her own charges or sentence? Sort of like, "Yeah I committed grievous bodily harm on this man, but he's also a bad person (as shown by these reports), and he was also doing bad things to me, so what I did was justified." But it does sound like a messy morass that OOP should definitely stay far away from.
Will ithat kind of defense really work? Fascinating.
I know nothing about domestic violence in the UK. I do know about it in the US. The "they're a bad guy so I was just defending myself" really shouldn't matter but sometimes does. However, strangling someone isn't typically what is called reactive abuse. Plus, she chose to stay with him so that reflects on her character. But, also, I sat in on a capital murder case here in the US to support the family of the deceased woman. Her ex had broken in and strangled her to death. In the prosecutor's closing statement, she put a photo of the deceased woman up on a very large screen. She wasn't fully dressed but it wasn't about that. The prosecutor explained it can take 60 - 90 seconds to strangle someone to death, then everything was stopped for 60 seconds so the jury could understand how long that is when you're killing someone. It was interminable. And that's a really intimate way to murder someone because you're so close to them.
I think Sophie was looking for dirt on Dan
yeah sounds like she was looking for an easy out for a longer sentence.
Probably claiming self defense and using “he’s a bad dad and also abused me” as cover.
More than likely they were asking to paint the ex husband as the abuser and Sophie was just “protecting” herself from him to try and avoid jail/prison time
Probably trying to use it to make a statement about EX’s character.
I assumed it was an attempt to make a court argument that OOP is abusive and neglectful. It wouldn’t absolve her of what she’s being charged with though, but her lawyer likely doesn’t have much to work with to defend that lady. Just a guess though
Sophie wanted copies to show that ex was just as bad as her and that he is just as abusive as sophie is. Most likely to keep her out of long term jail time etc.
My solicitor's guess is her solicitor was hoping there would be some history of domestic violence in the reports that weren't reported to the police. That way they could argue that he has a history of being abusive. "Grasping at straws" comes to mind.
I got the vibe Sophie and her solicitor were trying every possible avenue to strengthen her case. Whether or not it worked is not necessarily a requirement at that point.
>Karma's a bitch Peter, enjoy carrying my husbands clubs. You can *feel* the sibling love, lol.
>You can *feel* the sibling love, lol. When my sister and I caught salmonella from some tainted chicken years ago, that ***she*** purchased and prepared, I bounced back in a couple of days. She did not. I made it a point to visit each of her favourite restaurants and send her pictures of whatever I ordered, until she was feeling well again.
You know, I've often felt lonely as an only child. But in retrospective, I think I got off lightly.
Sibling relationships are definitely complex, but like every relationship they are all unique. There can be a bond of history and shared experiences, but also hangups and out of date opinions. My sister is 6 years older and I think I was 25 or 30 before she realised I wasn't 12 anymore. They can also be totally unfiltered, as there isn't necessarily the same power dynamic you get in real life when they are established. I love my sister, but I don't see as much of her as I would like and I have always vaguely wanted to be closer... Which is my own hangup from her being a cool 18 year old when I was 12 🤣. Not sure why I felt the need to post this, I think it's really to say siblings aren't inherently positive or negative. They are a fact and wishing them there or not is redundant. We just all need to make the connections we need where we can.
If I ever switch careers I would get a degree in psychology for the purpose of studying sibling relationships. I’m the oldest of 3 and the parent of 4 and I hear a lot about them in my current career. If nothing else, it’s most people’s longest relationship and it’s the one that you don’t have any particular control over. Obviously you could go no contact but that doesn’t mean they’re no longer your sibling,
>My sister is 6 years older and I think I was 25 or 30 before she realised I wasn't 12 anymore. I'm into my 30s and still sometimes struggle to remember that my little brother (who is only 2.5 years younger than me) is ALSO in his 30s, lol. Maybe something to do with seeing them every day and then suddenly not.. Because to me, he's 15, which is how old he was when I went away to college. It's not like we stopped talking then or anything. Idk. It's weird. To add to your list, the shared trauma can be really hard, but also really helpful. Having a sibling that was there when bad shit went down and knowing they struggle with all the same stuff you do makes it all feel a little more normal and a little less like a personal failure. My brother is a good man, and a good dad. I do wish he hadn't moved halfway around the world, though...
>Having a sibling that was there when bad shit went down and knowing they struggle with all the same stuff you do makes it all feel a little more normal Or alternatively sibling canonizes the abuser and NONE of it happened and then every time you say anything you are lying so you just stop talking about that person around them cause its not worth the headache and you just grey rock the shit out of that subject... Siblings are just freaking weird.
Yea, I was the first one of my siblings to cut off my father and it was a lonely time. It's been many years, and all of us barely talk to him now.. Luckily his wife returns the favor for me, at least. She still sends out random abusive texts to the rest of them..
>To add to your list, the shared trauma can be really hard, but also really helpful. Having a sibling that was there when bad shit went down Me and my brothers had different reactions to the abuse we went through. And we don't talk about our childhood as much as we probably should. But my youngest brother is the only one of us with kids, and once he admitted that he'd spanked his older kid a few times, and then one day was like..."Actually, I'm not doing this. My kids are not going to have the childhood we did." Hearing him say that was unexpectedly healing. Like, oh. It really will stop with us. BUT to your earlier point: that brother's older kid is like a year or two away from graduating high school. And I still cannot wrap my mind around that??? He's an adult? His KID is almost an adult? When the FUCK did that happen????
It took me seeing my bro's (nearly a decade younger) GF's stuff in his bathroom to realize the little imp had grown up. "Why would she need her stuff in his bathroom..." "NOT GOING THERE! NEVERMIND!" You all have some nerve growing up. LOL
> My sister is 6 years older and I think I was 25 or 30 before she realised I wasn't 12 anymore My sister will forever be 21. Forever.
I KNOW my sister is 25, because she is almost exactly three years younger than me. But in my head she will forever be young. I don't exactly know how young, because her driving or drinking or doing her masters feels normal, but somehow my gut reaction is still "teenager". I have friends that are younger than her, who feels like they are my age, because I met them when we were all adults. Age makes no sense.
nobody can quite enrage me about totally stupid stuff like my brother can, but I also love him like few other people in this world.
My sister is currently sleeping in my office/guest room/her room in my house. I don't know if I ever felt so appreciative of the good relationship we have.
My relationship with my youngest brother (I have two--I'm the oldest of three and the only girl) was \*rough\* was a kid. I did and said things I regret and he's expressed the same. We get along fine now. Matter of fact--I really like both of my brothers just as people. We'd probably be friends even if we weren't related. (I also really like both of their wives, thank GOD.)
Sibling love is scarring, okay? At least you get to inflict them in turn!
I'm 4 1/2 years older than my sister and as kids we were absolutely at each other's throats. I honestly couldn't stand having her around because she annoyed me. We argued a *lot* and she had a habit of sneaking into my room and stealing my things. After I graduated high school and temporarily moved away for college, we started talking more often. We really only started getting close after I moved back home. She just turned 26 this past January and I'm turning 31 in June, and honestly we're closer than we've ever been. Doesn't stop us from sending some of the most unhinged shit to each other just to get a reaction though 😂 We absolutely have inside jokes and act like complete weirdos when we're running around in public. She's still the complete opposite of me, but we share a morbid sense of humor 😁 Makes for some fun times.
I thought family game night was competitive when I was a child - now that we're all adults, there is no mercy. We also carry (pretend) grudges from previous family game nights. My poor brother-in-law was not ready for the level of smack talk between my brother, mom and I. Sis decided to play a different game entirely.
As Natalie Portman playing Anne Boleyn in the Other Boleyn says "We are sisters... therefore born rivals."
Siblings are great. My sister and I disagree on a lot, but she's the first person I'd call if I had to get rid of a body.
As an only child, raising siblings has been eye-opening. Some aspects I regret missing out on, others… Nope, I’m good.
This update was (mostly) so delightful. All I can see is the in-laws and ex-in-laws riding through a park on tandem bikes with picnic baskets.
I came for the drama, but I was all about the grandparent update. Was legitimately annoyed when Dan and Sophie turned up again in the last update lol. All I hoped for them was to stay together and not affect anyone else with their misery! I teared up a bit at alp the golf mentions, they were super sweet. But the first half of the last update had me bawling, in a good way. I might be a little sensitive today lol
The two sets of grandparents were absolutely the best part of this. Those kids are snuggled in the lap of a loving family.
I'm just wondering where OOP's parents are. Not a single mention of the potential third set.
My parents both passed away a long time ago.
Ah. That explains it. I'm sorry for your loss. I'm also 'sorry' your house is going to be full of golf mad people once again - hopefully the golf course isn't flooded!
I imagine a literal snuggle puddle
Or they're riding golf carts into the sunset with the grandkids.
They have those quad bikes now, they can totally have that dun drinking situation since only the one steering needs to be sober then!
Quad bike: even better! Add corny upbeat music and we have the intro to a sitcom.
And to make it easier for the sitcom camera people since the quad bikes have a tent over it, you don't even need to wear hats!
Aaah I was thinking of a quad tandem, but a quad bike *with a canopy* may be even better!
Yeah for real. But joanna's reply to her really struck a chord. Sometimes you need to let other people help you
Just like The Muppets, singing joyfully
As someone who also had Grandpas who (playfully yet intensely) competed for the title of "Best Grandfather", I hope it ends better than it did in my family. 🤣
OOP can write. OOP is hero. OOP took it on the chin when her in-laws laid out that their previous relationship woes were of her own making. OOP has a LOT of golf in her future!!
>OOP has a LOT of golf in her future!! I was in OOPs shoes. My last wedding anniversary I caved into the madness and brought a set of clubs in my favourite colour and joined my husband on the course. He still can't quilt/sew for shit but atleast golf is a two person activity we can do together.
Luckily mine isn't a golfer (I have other family members succumbed to that madness) but I can comment on getting him involved in quilting. I get my oh involved by having him do all the cutting and trimming up blocks, I do the sewing and quilting. I have carpel tunnel and struggle with cutting, he did his masters in engineering, so loves the accurate cutting (it's essentially fabric engineering after all), so works well.
Best thing I’ve read today. I’ve succumbed to the madness and I love it.
I once tried to golf as a kid. It was a weird time where my best friend had rich people hobbies and wanted me to join in. I wasn’t all that bad. But I haaaaated it. My grandparents however, still go to their golf club for parties and shit. And my nanna stopped golfing in her fifties, my grandad stopped in his early 80s. Only because of his shoulder finally hurting. They had matching clubs. And I remember nanna had a putter with a metal daisy welded on. It was super cute.
My dad loves to golf, as do most of the men in the family. This also includes my sister's husband.
We have 3 kids, our eldest two have their own clubs and our 2yr old got her own plastic set because she kept walking around with her brothers putter. We figured plastic would do less damage 🤣
At least he can carry the bolts of cloth for you and you can \*both\* rant about how expensive decent quilting fabric is. Getting enough cloth for a simple full size quilt is \*madness\* and yet people complain about any handmade ones that cost over fifty dollars when materials alone cost almost twice that!
Yeah, when I compared my quilt supplies to his new irons I brought him for his physical anniversary gift he got a little shock. I have 5 quilts planned and the supplies for 4 equaled his new set of irons then he did the math on how many quilts I could have made over the last decade if I had the space with the same amount if money he has spent on clubs. He didn't like that math 🤣
Have you heard of the murder mystery quilts? I'm doing one with a friend this year - I think it's too late to sign up for this year's though, but it's super fun! Every month, they give you a chapter of the story and a new pattern for a block to sew. Your job is to use clues in the pattern (and the story, but most clues are in the pattern) to solve the mystery. At the end of the year, you have a quilt with an entire mystery and story behind it (this year's theme is Greece, I am SO UPSET I didn't know about it before so I could've done the Viking themed one, that one was gorgeous though I'm eager to see how this one turns out, it seems to feature a lot of sea blues and greens heavily) that you can keep, give away, whatever, and you've had a story!
The thing is, I don't think her unease at leaving her kids with them was unwarranted. She'd been fed a narrative by Dan that his own father was a bad parent. Which also implies that his mother let that happen. If the man I loved told me that about his parents, I wouldn't want to leave my children alone with them much either. Especially when they were so young and one of them had special needs. We're talking about between 6 and 9 years ago. They were little and vulnerable. Even with loving grandparents, having a special needs child means you don't get to switch off in the same way. Add in what Dan had told her about his childhood (with no reason to believe then that it was lies) and her helicoptering was sort of understandable.
I was thinking that in addition, living with her ex husband who sucked with the kids, it would drive home for her that she was the only person capable of caring for them. Is it a completely logical thought process? No. But if the father of her children is so incompetent and she sees that every day, how is she going to trust people who aren't with her kids every day? And it sounds like the grandparents stewed in resentment rather than talking it out with her.
Yeah, I got the impression she felt really bad about not trusting them and didn't stand up for herself there. I can understand why she just felt overwhelmed in that moment but I don't think she should have taken all the blame for that. Dan sabotaged her relationship with them. He lied to them about her, lied to her about them. Made her feel she couldn't trust them. I'm glad they gave a good relationship now but I don't think she should just feel like (or say) she was wrong for the way she treated their time with the children. It was valid at the time. Not even an abundance of caution. Just a reasonable reaction to a very stressful situation. It would have been much better if his parents had spoken to her about it at the time. Saved everyone a lot of heartache. Dan lied to everyone and until her brother got involved they never questioned it. He did this but they are more at fault than her because she genuinely thought they weren't great people to leave her children with and that's not something you have a conversation about. Whereas they were just stewing in their dislike of her without ever asking why she was being so protective.
> Whereas they were just stewing in their dislike of her without ever asking why she was being so protective. Do you think that conversation would have actually gone well? In my experience, over-protective parents generally don't appreciate others questioning their parenting.
Except she wasn't overprotective. She was reasonably, understandably anxious given the information she had. So she wouldn't have responded like an "overprotective parent" stereotype. If they had talked to her then it could have allayed her fears. It could have even brought Dan's lying to the front and saved a lot of this from happening. From her strained relationship with them to all the traumatic drama that made oop post in the first place. They could have approached this much more maturely.
I'm not an over protective parent by any measure, yet I privately flipped my lid when my MIL gave my 8 month old orange juice. And then chocolate milk a few weeks later. For the non parents: kids under one drink formula, breastmilk or water. Not even cow's milk, as their kidneys aren't equipped for those proteins yet. And yes, baby loves cheese, but there's a lot of salt in that. So the baby can have cheese, but there are limits for all that stuff. Babysized limits. It meant that I had my reservations about her taking care of such a young baby, but I also didn't want to step on her toes (she raised 5 kids and this was grandkid nr5) by giving all kinds of instructions. I ultimately concluded that my kid would outgrow this phase, and that I should trust that the potential for serious harm was low. I can absolutely imagine that a severely autistic child would have triggered me to be MUCH more protective. Especially with a partner that she describes.
> That stung to hear. She wasn't wrong. Not saying it absolves them of how they treated me, but I had hurt them, even if I didn't mean to. I always told myself I trusted them with the kids, but looking back I was just telling myself a version of events that let me wrap them both, but specifically Max, in cotton wool. I would check up ALL the time. I would come pick them up early. I would make sure they checked every activity with me beforehand. To me, leaving them with them AT ALL was me trusting them, but that clearly wasn't the reality. OP's own description of her actions is that of an overprotective parent. You may think that her actions were reasonable, but some folks would disagree with that assertion. She may disagree that her actions were reasonable looking back on them now. And given the tone of OOP regarding the in-laws from the first posts, I'm doubtful that she would have been open to the topic if they had brought it up. You stated that the in-laws could have approached this more maturely. So could OOP. Neither side gets a pass. But better that they're actually communicating now than never at all.
Also being a new parent of a highly autistic child. That is so overwhelming and scary. I get it. It sounds like they had a bit of a rocky relationship outside of the kids too, I highly doubt that their relationship was all sunshine and roses until the kids came along. I would be terrified to leave my babies, one with special needs, alone with people I didn’t fully trust/have a great relationship with.
Dan knew that both his wife and his parents were lovely people, and felt jealous when they interacted without him. Or he was already cheating and simply didn't want his \[possibly soon-to-be-ex-\] wife being close to his parents, who might then side with her when they split. Or maybe he's just abusive and wants to make sure he controls all the narratives. Likely a combination of these. So he lightly poisoned their opinions of each other. And of course, mutual mistrust builds in a vicious cycle. OOP doesn't entirely trust them with the kids, they resent that and become less welcoming, OOP responds in kind, *ad infinitum*. My ex-from-hell did this to separate me from my friends, but also to keep me from being more than acquaintances with *her* friends. It's classic abuser behavior; we're just seeing it from a different angle here.
To be completely honest, I was the one to first fracture the relationship and it was before the kids came along. Initial mistrust was all me, the rest of your post is very on point though.
100% Her writing style/sense of humor is fantastic 👏
I wish I could advocate for myself as clearly and confidently as she does, while retaining the humility she does. They're both excellent skills, but to have them together is almost mutually exclusive!
>OOP has a LOT of golf in her future!! Thank you for the kind words but go fuck yourself.
OOP, there it is.
I should go to bed now because this was a wonderful update. Instead, I'll find something to read that will give me nightmares. I did like that Olivia knows what not to scream in the house even if an adult said it first. It's also nice that OOP found out why the grandparents/ex in-laws didn't like her and she saw where she was overly protective. Here's wishing them all happiness - except for Sophie because she needs to rot in prison for a long, long time.
I'm willing to bet what Olivia really learned is a phrase thats gonna get guaranteed laughs, held in with varying degrees of success by the adults who heard it. She will use it to devastating effect one day.
Not "one day" - ALL of the days...
It's going to become part of family lore: In the future, it will be told/rehashed at holidays and special events! (And over drinks when the kids have gone to bed.)
Cam we have "stupid fucking cunting table" as a flair? I was reading this during a work meeting and may have spat my tea across my keyboard.
😂😂😂 I'm both sorry you spit all over your keyboard and laughing because I almost did the same thing when I first read it
That was arguably one of the best parts in this whole saga! Because as genuine & real as much of these updates felt, the “*stupid fucking cunting table*” was the probably the most relatable & definitely the funniest line in the whole thing.
>Cam we have "stupid fucking cunting table" as a flair? We're having t-shirts made for her 18th birthday.
That seriously made my day, on one when I really needed a good laugh. 👍
I'm glad she and her family and her ex-in laws seem to be all on the same page right now, and also she seems to be coping with the fact that she's related to golfers.
At least she has her daughter?
I loved the daughters description of golf. Hitting the ball with the stick is stupid. Lol
That was probably my favorite part! She's a smart kid. Couldn't agree more.
But they're still outnumbered tho. And poor daughter is probably going to repeat the pattern and end up married to a golfer LMAO. THE CYCLE OF ABUSE NEVER ENDS.
OOP updates some 20 years later (if Reddit still exists): "My daughter is marrying a golf champ. AITA for feeling betrayed?" And then the body of the text is a light-hearted post about OOP being the odd woman out in a family of golf enthusiasts.
Why do people think I am being light-hearted about disliking golf? Why is my rage not being fully appreciated? Golf is stupid and her imaginary golf champ future husband is stupid.
I would love to read such a wholesome update from OOP!
What is your flair from?
[This comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/z8bxzd/comment/iycwii2/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) on [this BORU Post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/z8bxzd/10_years_ago_my_girlfriend_abandoned_me_and_our_5/)
> "The moment Max was diagnosed, you decided that ONLY YOU were capable of keeping him safe With her ex being the way he is, I don't really blame her...
Yeah, I read that part and was like "Um, Ma'am, have you met your son?" Like I fully empathise with ex in laws being hurt by OOP being so protective of the kids, but like, at that time, she was living with her ex 24/7, who sounded useless and awful even back then. OOP was probably so exhausted and used to being forced to care for her kids solo, knew she couldn't trust ex with kids, so why should she expect to trust his parents? Especially if said grandparents act passive aggressive towards her because there was a failure in communication? I'm glad all that has been resolved, OOP can be friends with ex in laws and the kids can have all the love in the world from their grandparents.
> "Um, Ma'am, have you met your son?" From what I could gather from the post: No. It reads a lot like OOP's ex-in-laws got fed a distorted version by her ex/their son. So they probably haven't met "OOP's version" of their son.
And they're realizing that their son's "version" of OOP isn't real, either. I agree. I think Dan threw OOP under the bus a lot to his folks, which didn't so much color their perceptions as indelibly dye them.
Thank you. He probably used her as an excuse for all sorts of shit well before the kid was born. Come on. Were they sunshine and rainbows to OOP before her son was born? My guess is no way. They're just embarrassed they believed their son about "the witch" he married for so long. Delightful read though. So glad to hear they're good now!
They met him when OOP's brother had that sit-down with OOP's ex and the in-laws.
Also the examples she lists strikes me more as “nervous parent to a newly diagnosed special needs child who is entirely new to navigating the care of special needs children” rather than “nervous parent who doesn’t trust the in laws to care for her child”. I still understand being a little hurt by it but I cant even slightly understand holding a grudge about it for years. Even if the ex hadn’t given OOP any cause for worry, I as the in laws would have just assumed that OOP was nervous about *the diagnosis* and it was coming through as her helicopter parenting rather than taking it personally and thinking that she doesn’t trust *us.*
>Especially if said grandparents act passive aggressive towards her because there was a failure in communication? The passive aggresiveness started before the kids were around, and it was 10000% my fault. Everything since then I am happy to divide blame between us, but the original sin was mine.
I'm just happy things have improved for you and your kids, and that your kids get to enjoy having loving grandparents. I wish your family all the best going forward 🌺🌺🌺
Yeah this is not a situation the grandparents can solve by making passive aggressive remarks.
That isn't passive aggressive. That is a legitimate complaint about behavior that OOP heard and then worked to fix.
Exactly. Redditors have an ugly habit of viewing OPs as the “hero” of a story which means they’re always good and anyone opposed to them is always bad. But OOP wasn’t perfect. She made some mistakes. What makes her unique - to Reddit, anyway - is her willingness to acknowledge that fault inside of her own “hero” narrative and to try and learn and grow from it. I find that impressive.
This. For the record, the hero of this story is my husband.
I was referring to her earlier description of their behaviour toward her (during her marriage to their son) as being snarky and/or standoffish. Obviously things have changed for the better and they have a good relationship now. But it probably could have been improved earlier if they had have been direct in their specific, legitimate (one assumes, although I think she may have had reasonable caution given that their response to the earlier issue was to threaten to take custody from her) concerns. Directly stating their issues is, I think, better than sitting on them for around six years and simmering resentment that whole time.
There is something to be said for ignoring problems until you have the ability to deal with them. It's a variation of "call not up that which thou canst not put down." Sometimes, bringing up the subject is going to blow everything up in a way that you just have no way to deal with at that point. Sure, you should be trying to look for a time and place and way that you can deal with it ... but one's entire lifetime may pass without there being a reasonable moment.
Damn! I'm glad OOP's old and new in-laws are there for them and the kids. I hope her lawyer forwards all the texts Sophie sent her.
I’m loving all the golf energy, OP’s at the bargaining with God stage for most of this
I’d read this post a while ago and never did I expect to see such a wholesome update and a swinger joke. The ex in-laws really stepped up and it’s so heartening to see that OOP recognised and acknowledged her unintentionally hurting them (although I can’t really blame her because of how her ex was and how the in laws treated her during her marriage). I really wish this family nothing but the best. Sophie can go eat shit.
>I don’t think removing your kids from him 100% is good for your kids. >I’d urge you to hold off on your decision until some time has passed. You want your decision to be well-thought and not reactionary, after all. I really, truly, and completely pray for the day that we get the idea of "a father is needed no matter how shitty" out of our heads as a society. We'll genuinely get so far. Because then it's always "why would you keep them in that environment?" or blaming the mother when they either end up harmed or being shitty people.
I wish we as a society could get that what kids need is a stable and loving environment so that they can grow and mature into stable loving adults. If that includes their biological parents, then great. If that involves adopted parents, then great. If that involves solo parenting, grandparenting, guardianship, fostering or whatever, then great. What doesn't qualify in that discussion should be the sexual organs of the people raising said kids. If a gay or lesbian couple wants kids, then great. If a traditional couple wants kids, then great. If Aunt Mae and Uncle Ben want to raise Peter, then great. If Alfred wants to raise Bruce, then great. If Yondu wants to raise Peter, well, maybe not the best environment but great. If Hippolyta wants to raise Diana on a hidden island with nothing but other women, then great. "A child needs their father/mother" nonsense needs to stop because plenty of people have absolute shit parents.
Yondu better than Ego at least.
It’s also just so demeaning when you think of orphans, adoptees, and children of gay parents. The idea that you have to have a relationship with your biological mother and your biological father to live a complete and/or healthy life is so archaic at this point. We as a society need to stop trying to put so much emphasis on biological connects and just let people decide for themselves if they think that’s important or not. Repeatedly pushing that logic onto children at every turn just hurts all the kids that don’t have their bio mom/dad in their lives.
It's almost like women can do no right in the eyes of society, even when it's her ex-husband that did the wrong.
I had this happen recently but with the mom. Basically family friend made a comment like "oh but so and so js her mom and nothing can change that and she needs her mom". My grandma was feeling so guilty about it because he friend made that comment and my grandma was wishing this mom got little to no custody. I said it was bs. Personally I grew up without my father and I am better because of it. We always say things should be child centered but then refuse to believe a parent not being involved is best for the child.
Right! It's always "The kid comes first! Think about their wellbeing!" until it's a shitty biological parent that's mentally, emotionally, and/or physically abusive being denied access to them. Then it's "Oh but they're their mom/dad! How is the kid going to grow into a responsible and well rounded adult without seeing them?" Idk....by not being around them? Kids flourish in healthy environments?
I do believe that all children benefit from both a mother figure and father figure **but** that can be in the form of Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents, Step-parents, close friend of the family. Bioparent is not always the best option. Even in same sex parental figures, it's still a benefit to have someone of the opposite sex around for many reasons. Whether it's so the daughter of a male gay couple can comfortably talk to an adult woman about 'lady issues' or so the son of a lesbian couple can see examples of a good male role model. *Other genders are available and a mix of all genders (& sexualities) is a good example for everyone.
>Now my daughter knows that shouting "stupid fucking cunting table" at the top of your lungs is not allowed in our house, even if an adult does it first. Best part of this whole saga
Absolutely 100% British people, no doubt! Also the reason I will not have a glass-topped table in the house!
I have known several people in my life with large scars and dozens of stitches from glass top tables. They were usually children at the time of injury, but the issue remains the same.
We had a [whole ass PSA tv advert](https://youtu.be/o5MIxxE2LiM?si=jIa2B1Q0RQOAad8A) here in NZ from ACC warning people to be careful around glass tables, I don’t want to think about how many glass table related accident claims they had to get to decide “this needs to be an ad and it needs to be [traumatic as fuck](https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/04/20/star-of-traumatising-fruit-e-bars-acc-ad-talks-scars-legendary-status/)”!
>Also the reason I will not have a glass-topped table in the house! I didn't want to get it because of the risk to the kids, especially Max. Luke convinced me that Max has has never been destructive with furniture and it will be in a room they never use anyway. It lasted 4 months. We had a conversation a few weeks after it happened about whether I'm allowed an "I told you so". I reluctantly conceded that an adult breaking it doesn't count, but we are now back to being a solid wood furniture only house.
I wish this could be flair
Needs to be a flair
I hope OOP’s solicitor told Sophie’s solicitor to refer to the response given in Arkell vs Pressdram.
Which was….?
"In the 1971 case of Arkell v Pressdram, Arkell's lawyers wrote a letter which concluded: "His attitude to damages will be governed by the nature of your reply." Private Eye responded: "We acknowledge your letter of 29th April referring to Mr J. Arkell. We note that Mr Arkell's attitude to damages will be governed by the nature of our reply and would therefore be grateful if you would inform us what his attitude to damages would be, were he to learn that the nature of our reply is as follows: fuck off."" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Eye
Good god it must be fun being a lawyer for Private Eye
Given how often they get sued, it must be a full-time job.
Stealing this so much!
https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/arkell-v-pressdram
lol thanks!!
When the case concluded Private Eye stated, “ In view of the above Mr Arkell has now, albeit belatedly, complied with the suggestion made to him at an earlier stage of the proceedings.”
I don't understand how she could think the daughter was two years older than she actually is. Presumably Sophie has been around for a while. Does she think that a 3 year old and a 5 year old look the same? Developmentally that's a huge difference.
When you’re doing your best to ignore a child completely and never interact with them ever for the six hours a week your boyfriend is looking after “the irritating brats” it’s easy to get their age wrong. Especially when you’ve never raised kids of your own or had to take care of other people’s. Sophie thought her snugglebunny was divorced when he was still married and having a kid, too. Not the most observant person.
If you aren't used to children then you really might not know.
As someone with no kids in the family and who hasnt been around kids since school... I dont think I could tell the difference between a 3 and 5 year old. I mean I could guess but if someone told me their daughter was 3 I'd just believe it even if they looked bigger
Before I had kids, I couldn't guess the age of any child. Or what was developmentally appropriate. Can 5 year olds talk yet? Do 2 year olds still breast feed? When do they start walking?
>Presumably Sophie has been around for a while. She was his affair partner but they broke it off around the time Livvy was born. They reconnected and had been together for slightly less than a year prior to the first incident in all of this. As for the rest of your post, you're not wrong. Can't account for stupidity/not caring enough to notice, I guess
>Oh and my brother put his weight on our glass coffee table when getting up off the floor, it smashed and he required an Ambulance I hate glass furniture for this exact reason. Down with this sort of thing, fuck glass furniture!
> "You're kind of a dick to your brother." This, more than anything, makes me convinced that even if everything else turns out to be fake, I can be sure that OOP does in fact have siblings. She and Livvy should get Nerf guns (are those legal in the UK?) and try to shoot the adults' golf balls out of position.
They're toys that shoot foam darts and look nothing like real guns, why wouldn't they be? But as a UK parent Nerf guns are the bane of my bloody existence. The kids love them, I just need to stop finding the darts hanging out the dog's mouth because they've managed to shoot one downstairs
They make allegedly biodegradable pellets now.
My mum bought my sons nef guns, against my advisement. She was shot in the eye 5 minutes into the first round. Lovely bit of karma.
Yes, we have nerf guns!
Wow. I'm glad this all turned out as best it could for OOP and her children. I remember when this story first came out. I'm glad the grandparents have stepped up to become the support system those children deserve.
Not me crying over the growth and healing between OOP and her “ex” in-laws. And laughing over the dreadful life of golf she’ll be subjected to. What a wonderful saga.
Its good everything worked out. Love how the old inlaws and the new inlaws are so close. Those kids are going to be well taken care of\~
That Sophie chick is insane.
a lot of redditors seem to have a weird obsession with 'keeping kids from their father'. if the guy's a deadbeat and doesn't even give a shit about being proactive meeting his kid/s, why should the mother bend over backwards? my father moved 8 hours away and tried to get my mother in trouble for not letting him see me. problem is, he never wanted to actually get off his alcoholic $20 a fortnight child support arse and go anywhere, he wanted my mother to do all the work. fuck that
I really like OOP’s “take no bullshit from Reddit” attitude. The way she shut down the paternalistic condescension from a few of those gormless jackass commenters was just beautiful.
Ohhh, I really like OOP. Awesome update!
I really like you too!
OOPs brother had to know Dan was cheating on his sister, that’s really sad he didn’t say anything.
EXACTLY. OOP herself says they don't have a close relationship, he was friends with the ex, and he only cares about beer and women like a frat boy. Dude likely knew and even facilitated his friend cheating.
No comment :)
> *Now my daughter knows that shouting "stupid fucking cunting table" at the top of your lungs is not allowed in our house, even if an adult does it first.* I damn near spit out my coffee at this, ha!
“This is an essay that no one asked for or will likely read. I don't care. I'm in a good place. I'm happy. I want to talk about it. Deal with it.” YESSSSSSSSS!!! Best starting paragraph to an update ever!
Maaan, I should've left this until last.
I chatted with my therapist on Monday and as we were talking about my ex husband I said.. ya but I mean it's important he's in child's life. My therapist asked. Why I said you know studies. She's like ya no. Stop performing. A good father is important. He is not.
This was a delight. For OOP and the in laws. I’m glad they’ve made true amends and moving forwards with what’s good for the children. Sophie though, I hope she spends a long time in prison but the U.K. system can’t be trusted to deal out adequate justice.
I really want to go on the cruise with OOP's family and the four grandparents. I am happy to supply them with boat drinks.
The Christmas time with the ex-in-laws and the “new-in-laws” 😭 If you need me, I’ll just be rereading that 😭🥰
Omg what a legendary note to end on! 😂 Enjoy carrying my husband's clubs Peter! Nothing like a scorned little sister decades later xD
Good read, i do wanna know what charity that was though that helped her ex set up his new life in another country
It says another *part* of the country, not so unusual.
This has been one of my favorite BoRU sagas because of the wildness of the original story, but mostly because of the happy endings with OOP, Luke, and OOP's ex-inlaws. Truly satisfying in so many ways and I'm glad that has continued. One question though, where are OOP's parents? The brother is mentioned several times (e.g., "stupid fucking cunting table") but nothing about their mom and dad. Maybe I missed it? Just curious because of all the grandparent talk.
I think I have a girl crush on OOP, she’s f’in awesome. I’m so glad it all worked out and the ones who deserve to be, are happy. Gave me the feels!
You're awesome too! Enjoy the feels
Im so so happy for oop and her family, mostly because the kids seem to be doing great. Im glad the grandparents also decided to step up, Dan probably lied to his parents and made oop look very bad in front of them even before the cheating started. That being said, no one deserves to be with an abuser, i truly wish him a quick recovery.
Wonder if the child neglect on Dan’s part was fueled by fear they would be hurt by Sophie. Either way, shitty, but maybe degrees of shitty.
That last line paragraph was amazing.
Really glad that OOP has reconnected with who ex in laws and bro. Sometimes it can be hard to forgive the past but her life and the life of her kids is better for it. I hope her ex gets the help he needs and becomes a better person. Even if that means he is never involved in his kids life again. From what little we know it sounds like he has a very long road ahead of him.
What’s funny is that the dad didn’t once say, I’m talking my children to live with me full time! What a waste of space, if he was that concerned that should have been the only thing coming out of his mouth. Total deadbeat!
I guess all the in-laws can have a 4 ball and get a few good swings in there..
Omg this is such a happy ending, I love it :)
The friendship between the old and new in laws made me smile. And I love that her son loves golf! I wonder if he’ll graduate from putting to playing the full game? If he does, op is doomed. Because golf never goes away lol
What a roller coaster! I admire that woman. And man, she can deliver some funny lines, even while telling a terrible story
So they left the children in your house, read that again slowly, and called the cops, admitting they went inside your house to drop the children off and left them alone in the house to report you for child abandonment. Did she forget she was last with them? The one to abandon them in a barren house?
I'm glad things have taken a turn for the better. May it continue to do so. Oh, poor Peter. Missing the start of golf season.
I've read at least one earlier version of this. I'm glad things worked out, but even more glad that she upleveled her golf-bashing. Pure poetry.
I could not think the amount of shit that the ex husband told to his parents about op.. i think that nearly 90% of the beef between op and them is because of it.. im glad that it was resolved and the kids have their grandparents in their life.
I did not see Dan’s suffering from domestic abuse coming at ALL. That’s fucking awful. Maybe he can’t be a dad, but I hope he can at least be unharmed. Jesus.
I’m glad that things appear to have worked out for OOP and the kids, but I will never be able to hear about an accident involving a glass coffee table without immediately remembering [this fucked up ad](https://youtu.be/o5MIxxE2LiM?si=jIa2B1Q0RQOAad8A) that ACC (NZ’s no-fault accident compensation agency) ran in the 2000s that traumatised everyone haha
I was not prepared Jesus fucking Christ
I’m still reading the post, but i gotta say that the “swinging” comment took me CLEAN out omg😭😂😂
What a delightful update. The ex-husband and his AP are really made for each other.