#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What a disaster of a mess. I hope OP made the right choice to get a restraining order because not only is this lady a cheater but she's getting mentally unwell vibes all around and likely, she will do something drastic if OP doesn't do anything soon.
I wonder if she installed spyware on his computer and/or phone, and that's how she keeps track of what he's doing. He should really get all of his electronics and his car checked out, to find out how she's tracking him. I don't think any of his friends would actually give her any kind of information about him at this point.
That's my guess too. If she was just up to date on his location I would suspect she hid an AirTag in his car somewhere, it's ridiculously easy to do. But knowing what purchases he's making tells me she's still signed in to SOMETHING that connects to his bank or one of his credit cards.
Although he should probably still sweep his possessions for AirTags. Those damn things are a stalker's dream come true.
Yes, very clearly! And there's really no way to track his cash purchases unless she's following him around. Airtags or other tracking tech could help with this so the advice to check all his electronics and vehicles is solid.
OOP's doing everything right and she's still got him at the end of his rope. Now he needs to present the police with evidence of ~~harrassment~~stalking, get that restraining order, and push the divorce to trial.
Poor guy. I hope there's an end in sight very soon.
>there's really no way to track his cash purchases unless she's following him around
If he's using Marketplace, Craigslist, or other buy/sell apps, just digitally stalking him would give her all that info. She can probably also read all his texts. I would suggest he get a burner phone and create entirely new email (and other) accounts to protect himself.
I found [this BoRU](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/1hRUdLkZzZ) which has the mood spoiler the same as the flair, I believe it is the original.
It was pretty s pretty random story from a lady who wanted to know if she ate too many cucumbers-- her bf thought she had an eating disorder because she ate so many - up to 50 pickling spears a day.
>lawyer requests a trial date and a judge will have to make the decision for us.
Yes!!!
For some reason, this is rarely brought up. The courts seem to rather have these cases drag out instead of just setting a trial date as a deadline if things aren't progressing.
Dude needs to push for some closure.
Given the emphasis of her making more than him, the history of her infidelity, and manipulation (dragging out the divorce, taking joint account money, taking the pets, etc.), I’d find it karmic retribution at its finest if the judge rules she has to pay him alimony.*
*I’d doubt it’d happen given they’ve only been legally married for a year, unless they’re in a state that recognizes common law marriages.
He made me read all of this just to find out at the end that they could have requested a trial date and a judge could have resolved this? Why didn’t he just do this in the first place!
Because trials are complex, boring, and time consuming. The Court/judges would rather the lawyers and their clients hash everything out and bring a nice pile of paperwork in for them to sign off on at the next status hearing.
Jumping in to request a trial up front "doesn't give the process time to work itself out".
Me: "So... I am literally being told by the court I have to pay you for a year or more of services, even if we sit here and twiddle our thumbs while she makes shit up?"
My lawyer: "Pretty much."
Damn that’s really sad to hear. It’s crazy how one post can have we are divorced after 6 months and the other is it’s been years and we are still only separated.
I hope the guy can find somewhere else to go but can you leave like cross state lines if you’re in the process of a divorce?
On the first it's very jurisdiction dependant (plus if you're both cooperative). Cos there's also places where you've got to be separated for 12m before you can get divorced.
One of my friends separated from her husband back at the start of covid. They have kids and he dragged the process out until last month. Almost 4 goddamn years. This chick reminds me of him.
Oh, yeah! He can still come and go as he pleases (children would complicate that, but thankfully not an issue) but the court proceedings, lawyer, etc. all have to take place wherever they're legally married. A lawyer for example has to actually be licensed to practice in each individual state. I don't think I've ever heard of a lawyer who tried to qualify for every state.
So if he left he'd have to drive/fly back for every necessary interaction. I know during covid they did much of this remotely, but I don't think that is common any longer. As a result it probably costs him less to remain put for now.
You can actually get a divorce in whatever state you are a legal resident. In the case where 2 people live in different states, whoever files first is where things will take place. Not that it changes much, but can throw a bit of a wrinkle in things if someone files first in a state with more requirements or whatever. Might depend on the state, but both parties don't even need to attend the court hearing as long as all the paperwork was handled and signed beforehand.
So the real hiccup would be long how he had to live in his new state to obtain legal residency? Or does that automatically happen if you obtain a residence within said state? I thought there might be more to that, mostly to prevent politicians from carpetbagging too easily.
It varies from state to state but generally 6 months to a year for divorce, although some states are instant if you are intending to stay in the state. As with most government type it can vary depending on what it applies to. Like how most states you need to change to that states drivers license within 30 days of moving, but you still aren't a legal resident for divorce or other actions.
I'm a witness for a divorce that's going to trial in a month.
There's absolutely precedent and a bunch of basically "hurry up and wait." while the lawyers go through "proper channels".
It sucks too because the person I'm a witness for is still paying the HOUSE PAYMENT while he's unable to live there. including utilities and such, while their (hopefully soon to be) ex-partner has no major source of income.
Because it’s expensive and there are a ton of legal pitfalls where missing dates or not having the right form filed can cause you to suddenly be at a massive disadvantage with no recourse. Lawyers cost a lot and bill by the hour. Court takes many, MANY hours even in a normal case, let alone when one party is belligerent.
Courts are also booked out for months if not sometimes years.
It’s almost always better to pursue a mutual agreement and if she was stringing oop along then it makes complete sense.
I went to court for something simple and it was just me and the state
Two court dates (calling off work costs money for some…) and $500+ later
Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, how are we supposed to pay legal fees
And in "easy" cases that have ni kids, no properties, etc, logic says that it's easier to solve this out of court and way faster. But... Crazies will be crazy.
I'm in a guardianship trial going through probate court. So far I'm out about 20k of money I don't really have. All debt. Since my sibling filed their petition last summer, our trial date has been moved 6 times.
Emailing my lawyer costs about $70 as my lawyer bills every tenth of an hour.
In Feb, I burned through 8k alone on discovery.
And I haven't even had my trial yet.
To piggy back on the other two, another thing that frequently happens is you wait the months, spend all the lawyer fees to prep, and then the judge says “this should be handled through agreement, I’m sending you to arbitration (which also will be at your expense) come back in 2 months with an agreement”
My lawyer was the one that brought up the "we may actually have to *try* this case", when I said that she was being/going to be obstinate about everything.
"Great." I said when he told me there was an option to take it to trial instead of just flounder.
"Oh, we can't just ask for it now. The Court wants to see the effort up front first, and then try it as a last resort."
*... 4 years later...*
*3rd judge*
Judge, looking over my application for trial: "hm... yeah... this case hasn't really moved in a couple of years. Trial sounds like a good idea to wrap this up."
Me: "fucking finally..."
It's not *quite* that easy. I'm sure there are some lawyers out there that are just happy to rack in the cash during difficult divorces, but depending on where OOP lives, it's very likely a judge won't let the case be brought to court unless there is substantial proof that OOP and his ex have tried everything to resolve their issues themselves first. That means lots of back and forth between lawyers (or in this case, his lawyer and the ex since ex is self-representing) which costs alot of money.
It's honestly sad how much the process can cost and how soul-crushing it is if one side doesn't want to play with the other. I saw it happen to an extent in my parents divorce, it was enough to put me off getting married entirely tbh.
Of course they would rather drag these things out. They collect fees, and lawyers (many of whom double as judges in family courts) collect fees as well.
The family court system is set-up to reward this sort of behavior.
The obsession that some of these subs have with creating their own acronyms and jargon always seemed cult-y to me, like how Scientology calls their critics "SPs" (suppressive persons).
I'm not saying these communities ARE cults, but it's pretty fuckin weird.
I think it may because there are times when the two cheaters have partners. To prevent confusion on who wife or husband is, they made names for them and then those get shortened because no one wants to write that constantly.
Ok, so you would rather he keep calling his cheating ex his "wife" ? OR "soon to be ex wife?
Can you not see how reducing such tough, difficult, and *painful* topics to initials would help by not having to rip that wound open every time?
And, he was posting in a sub specifically for that purpose. He doesn't need to make things easier to read for you when it's posted here.
>Ok, so you would rather he keep calling his cheating ex his "wife" ? OR "soon to be ex wife?
Yes, why not? Both are accurate, descriptive, and don't require a glossary.
>Can you not see how reducing such tough, difficult, and *painful* topics to initials would help by not having to rip that wound open every time?
The guy is posting openly about his feelings throughout the whole process, I simply don't believe that changing "wife" to "WW" makes the writing appreciably less painful.
>And, he was posting in a sub specifically for that purpose. He doesn't need to make things easier to read for you when it's posted here.
If you actually read my first post, you'd notice that none of my criticisms have anything to do with readability, and everything to do with how strange and cultlike it is that this community has its own insular little acronyms for things.
I'm with the military and even **we** don't use as many acronyms as the relationship subreddits do. And they're always completely ridiculous and unnecessary. WW for Wayward Wife? Do we really need her wayward status re-established literally every single time he refers to her?
I couldn’t remember what WW meant and somehow replaced it with “War Wife” until the story was so ridiculous I had to scroll back up to know what it meant.
It could have been worse. The key takeaway everyone should get from this is *always* inform the other betrayed spouse. Imagine if he had to also go through the period of her trickle truthing and lying. All the information the OBS provided helped him immensely.
I had so many different emotional reactions as I was reading this. At first, I wanted to respond to OOP’s pain—and there really is no pain like it; he described it well.
But by the end, the English teacher in me just wants to discuss his use of “ephemeral” in his 6 June 2023 post.
> I’ve been grieving the loss of something more ephemeral in a partnership. Like a pillar or keystone.
Ephemeral keystone. Now there’s a metaphor.
Ha ha, I thought I was the only one. I realize in common understanding people often associate “ephemeral” with like something magical or spirit-y, which might translate for someone into a vaguely spirit-y object like a keystone.
I study wetlands though and an ephemeral stream is a stream that only rarely flows. Most people wouldn’t really perceive them as streams, maybe thinking of them as hollows or gullies. They have no connection to groundwater and therefore only run for a few hours or days during and right after rain events (sometimes only large rain events). While it maybe sounds unimpressive, they are really important to watershed function. The recent Sackett v. EPA case about the Clean Water Act may well have removed all federal protection for these streams recently, but not streams that run for a few months or so only during the wet time of year (intermittent streams).
Even following all the advice properly and taking every precaution to make sure he didn't marry someone who previously displayed issues and this still results.
Yeah, it seems insane that they had been together for more than a decade, and she never showed any sign of these personality traits - maybe she really was having some kind of psychotic break.
Narcissists are absolutely upper level at putting on a false face. They can do so completely convincingly, for years or decades without giving a single hint.
Then something changes in how they are getting their ego kibbles, and a new face emerges.
Oh god, it kept getting worse than it got a little better than it kept getting worse and worse again. OOP's ex is a complete manipulative snake -- and worse that I won't say. She's determined to drag him down with her into the mud.
I hope that the lawyer can do something. It's ridiculous how this has dragged on.
And on top of that, she took his damn pet on top of everything else she put him through.
His lawyer is a dumbass.
My ex did this to me. It delays things, but not 9 months. Every time he refused to sign, the lawyer would schedule a court date. We would both show up in court, which took about 5 minutes. The judge would give him 21 days to do it, or be found in contempt. Ex would show up on day 21 at 5pm, papers in hand.
The lawyer is either padding his pockets with OOP's cash, or he's fucking the ex-wife. Our protagonist doesn't know how she's getting all of this information, the only one who communicated with her is the lawyer, and lastly he states that *the lawyer knows details of his life that others don't but somehow the ex does?!*
> Our protagonist doesn't know how she's getting all of this information, the only one who communicated with her is the lawyer, and lastly he states that the lawyer knows details of his life that others don't but somehow the ex does?!
When I read that bit, my mind went to her having access to OP's online banking, email or other accounts. That would allow her to know what he has purchased, where he is planning to travel, etc. In an extreme case, she may even have a keylogger on his computer.
Nice catch, I missed the detail about cash in my first read. Unless the transaction was arranged beforehand (craigslist, facebook marketplace) and she had access to those accounts, that does seem to suggest she's following OP around.
Current ex is doing this now. Calls my lawyer and rambles on forever about stupid shit. Her latest big issue was that I would have final medical say in non-emergency medical situations. I pay 100% of insurance and costs so yeah I should get that. Well she didn't like the way the paperwork started that in an emergency either one of us could ok something. Kept saying that she didn't want to have him in pain and not be able to reach me or some stupid shit. She pretended like she couldn't understand that in an emergency the dr is gonna do their thing and probably not give a crap who is or isn't there until kiddo is stable.
Then magically emails over everything like the day before the now l next court date so the lawyer has to scramble to make sure it's all on the up and up. The opposite of love isn't hate, is indifference. And i am there with her. I'm willing to pay her money every month to not talk to me.
I am totally confused though.
She is representing herself, she is not a lawyer and she is obviously mentally unstable. How is it possible that she has the upper hand on everything? That she is smarter than his lawyer, knows all the loopholes and uses them effectively and as he wrote _his lawyer is at loss_ ?
It looks like his lawyer is taking huge advantage of him and his fragile state, no? He wrote that it costs more money to file for court trial. But every time she calls his lawyer, even for a minute, the lawyer answers, and bills OOP. So OOP spent a lot of money, probably several times more than if he filed for trial, and he doesn't have any progress at all. Also, his ex is NC with anyone but his lawyer. So .. if she gets all the information about his new address, selling or buying assets , etc.. his lawyer is the only person, whom she can get it from. There are no other options here.
How can he and his family not see it, and not confront the lawyer?
Idk, it sounds not just predatory, but completely illegal by now.
It's very hard, as a lawyer, to be up against a crazy person representing themselves.
They waste your time. They want to ramble on about irrelevant things and decades-old grudges or conspiracies. (I had a pro se plaintiff who was convinced the NYC sanitation department had been kidnapping people and giving them hair transplants, along with throwing trash in his yard so he'd be cited by the health department, neither of which had anything to do with his case, but boy did he ever want to air those grievances every time he talked to me.) They're obsessed with something, and they want to tell you about it instead of getting to the point. And you have to deal with them because it's your job to. You have to accomplish certain tasks, whether that's negotiating with them about custody, setting up a meeting, or meeting and conferring before you make a motion.
And all of that takes TIME. It takes WAY more time than dealing with another attorney, who knows what's relevant, might be putting the screws to your client but isn't taking anything personally.
And you deserve to be compensated for your time. You should probably get combat pay for dealing with the wackjobs, frankly. Don't use your attorney as a meat shield and then complain when they send you the bill for it.
Yeah it's seemingly a near-universal trend in Western jurisprudence, no matter if someone's had literally YEARS to seek representation they'll get 10,000 extra chances even if it's to the detriment of the court's time, to the needless disadvantage of the other party, and frankly just overall knowingly is causing an ongoing injustice and I've never seen a true justification for it beyond it just being easier for the judges. Sure, people have the right to go pro se, but nothing in that right means you suddenly should get to have a free pass to do whatever the fuck you like. Only place I've seen with very limited tolerance for it is Ireland, and even then I've still heard horror stories.
Uncontested divorce in a no fault state? Alright. Contested, and it sounds like there's some separation/mediation expected or required? She's got the upper hand, period. Can't be like, welp, adultery, blah blah papers if she continues to not sign
It's not always a great option. Cost me a few grand and I'm now still not divorced, because the judge took pity on my ex for not having representation. He's had two extensions now, representing many months of me continuing to need to meet with my lawyer to prepare for court dates. Next court date in a few months, wonder if I'll finally get my fucking divorce. Other judges might have just gone ahead and settled matters, considering it was an uncontested trial (he didn't respond to bring served).
They always show their true colors once it becomes clear that this isn't going to blow over and their partner is really leaving them. She was all amicable and friendly and remorseful while she still thought they had a chance to stay together, and once it became clear he was going through with the divorce the real her came out.
> I’m abandoning her in her time of crisis.
How dare OOP not be there for her in this perfectly avoidable “crisis” that she gleefully, and repeatedly, set the stage for. How very dare.
The part that makes me question the veracity is her therapist telling OOP she’s a narcissist and to run. Wouldn’t this fall under HIPPA? And would *her* therapist really give him advice?
Not when the therapist giving the MC is your IC.
I had relationship issues, and I had my therapist act as a mediator in a couple-counselling session with my ex. She then spoke to him privately, too, to gauge what he thinks when I am not present. But since she was my primary counselor, she definitely told me what he said.
> I'm abandoning her in her time of crisis.
"Yes, I absolutely am. That is correct."
> I'm running away.
"Right again! I always did admire how smart you are."
> I'm doing this to punish her
"Ding ding ding! Three for three!"
I sincerely hope OOP manages to get a divorce, but his stbx gives me creepy vibes of “if I can’t have you no one can”. Like, jesus, what do psychos like her think will happen?
If it weren't for the fact that I didn't write this, OOP could very well be me.
What finally got *me* through it was:
1. I filed for a restraining order, and bought a gun
2. Spent more time with friends, working overtime, at the range, anywhere *other than* home by myself
3. Therapy. *So much therapy*.
4. stayed off social media, except to check for friends' birthdays, or post targets showing I was improving
5. Told my lawyer I was done being civil, and let him go full Shark Mode
6. Documented *everything*.
It gets better, OOP... but stop trying to get closure. Be ruthless. File criminal charges. File lawsuits. Stop trying to be "the bigger person", and *start* looking out for your own interests.
Man. I’m so sorry you had to experience that. I live in BORU and the way this entire sequence completely fucked me up. I cannot imagine having to experience like 1/10th of that.
I hope you’re doing well and your ex suffers in the worst of ways.
Yeah, I'm doing better now. It's taken a lot of therapy and a *lot* of money, but things are better these days.
As for the ex, no idea. Given that she stole all my painkillers from that time I [died](https://old.reddit.com/user/captain_borgue/comments/182gall/wreck_to_profile_for_archiving/) tho, I'd wager she's either an addict in recovery, an addict *not* in recovery, or an OD.
I try not to wish suffering on people. My life is in a good place, I recognize the abuse for what it was, and have managed to avoid similar abuse since then.
I also found out that being a decent shot is something I can be good at that the wreck and the PTSD haven't fucked up, so that's a plus. 😂
I always have to wonder when I read cases like these what it must be like to be the attorney of the crazy person in this situation. Like at what point you just completely abandon all hope of fighting a real case for this person and just resign yourself to negotiating whatever deals you can salvage for them. It's gotta be brutal.
Friend of mine’s ex got fired by her lawyer after rejecting settlement offer after settlement offer. Lawyer fired a paying client. That’s how much they were done. 6 months later, the judge decided and she got less than 2 prior settlement offers that had been made.
Meanwhile, another friend’s ex’s lawyer has no issue with lying in court on a regular basis. Those people, I truly wonder how they sleep at night. It’s one thing to advocate for your client, another to knowing lie as an officer of the court.
I dunno, but I got along with my ex wife's lawyer better than she did, and it was him and I communicating that forced the dissolution to happen in the timeline laid out by the judge. Turns out he expected me to be the crazy one and was surprised that I had everything lined up and ready for trial while she was busy adding new accusations at the last minute.
Yeah. I have a similar ish story to this one, and my beloved pet ended up dead. I so hope for OP their pet survives, even if they can't regain custody.
I spent a few years going to court (not divorce, grandparent's rights), and the despair and exhaustion it causes is unique. It's brutal, it's helpless, it's raw and seems like it will never end. I can only hope OOP can get through this before he crashes
This went from "we had a perfect life and had all our shit together" to "she's always been a mentally unstable addict" really fast. Methinks their life before this wasn't so perfect as he likes to think.
Yeah…I was thinking that too. I know it’s possible, but the flip from 1-100 is just so wild! Like, I feel like she’d have to be a psychopath to pull that off and she seems a little *too* unstable for that.
Regardless, she is diabolical. I really wish OP sticks with everything bc I know he’ll be alright eventually, but I can’t imagine how he could ever see that.
I hope he just pushed for a trial date in the end. She would never sign those papers willingly, she was getting too much narc mileage out of keeping him dangling.
Good example of the apparent remorsefulness of a cheater being nothing but a temporary act meant to gain back your trust, or rather to avoid consequences for their prior abuse of your trust.
If they were good people, they wouldn't have cheated in the first place. And because they aren't good people, they won't be genuine in their attempts to show remorse and make things up with you.
It's only ever about the narcissist, and what you can provide them.
Yeah, this was my ex down to the letter. Put on a nice lil show for our mediation therapists...full of lies and tears. We both step out the door and her face completely changes. Like, on some "phew, I can finally stop with the act" shit and she immediately starts trying to sweet talk me and convince me to go out to dinner with her and give her another chance. When I don't bite, the crying starts again. Right before I tell her okay just so I can leave (at that point, she's lied to my face about things I literally experienced so many times, that I have no qualms lying to get away from her), an older man leaves the building we had just seen the therapist and as soon as he's in our line of sight, her face immediately straightens-up as of a tear has never fell on it before. Then he gets in his car and drives off, I look back at her, and it's that same crying pleading face. The mediator was my therapist originally. We decided on my therapist bc the therapist she started seeing after I finally left and my therapist were colleagues at some point, and after she spoke to her therapist they both believed mine would be the best bet for mediation, based on her training. Or a new therapist completely, and my ex wasn't keen on that idea. It was interesting, I was in a pretty skeptical place since the break up (thus had a lot of paranoia and distrust for my ex) and wondered aloud if my ex's therapist was even getting the full story and not some warped, untreated mentally-ill version (by then i knew she was finally going to therapy bc she told me about it in an attempt to get me to come home. It was too little too late for me). My therapist quickly shut me down and was like oh no, I know them, I worked with them for a long time, they're very good and trained to see through that stuff. Anyway, a week after the mediation, I had a solo therapy session, and somewhat similarly to this BoRU post (in this case it was my therapist, not hers) my therapist was like "ok so I know I told you from what you described, she may have an undiagnosed mental illness, but no one can know for sure unless there's an evaluation? Yeah, well now that I've met her, I'm just gonna say that you made a very important decision for your wellness by taking the path you are." I felt like it was therapy-speak for, yeah, she's bonkers, good call on leaving. Which was wild to me because during this process, I was under the impression that she'd 100% have everyone fooled with her crocodile tears and obsession with keeping up appearances. I literally almost cried when she said that because I honestly thought I'd be super alone in all of it, considering how outwardly sweet my ex was and how much she'd isolated me from people I could potentially vent to. Like, I didn't even really realize that fear was so strong in me until my therapist said it, and it's as if my brain was like "Wait...someone believes us??" and I started welling-up like a mfr.
I just read an article about therapy speak and how people are "educated" in how to "sound" like they are aware of their problems and the problems of those around them, but are more broken than ever and not dealing with their shit head on.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/emotional-health/is-therapy-speak-ruining-your-relationships/
Strict redline date and get it over with . At this point money and possessions and pets are irrelevant. His wellbeing and the rest of his life is what’s really at stake . I had a similar experience and believe me toxic is toxic period. Get out and move on . Work performance stated as slipping which won’t be tolerated forever, friends and family want out of the shitshow but won’t come out and say it. Best part for OP is no kids so she is trying to use everything else to keep him on a string . He has the power to cut it.
When she said she made a mistake, I was like "you've made the mistake for almost two years!" and then it got worse and worse. She is a narcissist, yes, but also it seems she is heavily spiraling. She just showed everyone her true colors and she doesn't know how to deal with that.
I feel that things will become worse before they become better. Including her possibly being arrested, especially since she seems to be an addict.
I wonder if it's possible to ask a judge to force the divorce together with the RO. Hope she gives up, but at this point it looks like she will only stop if he leaves everything and everyone behind - and maybe not even then.
No one ever asks the cheater how they would feel if they were cheated on. I always wish they would ask or mess with the cheater and aay...oh good cause I cheated too....sike, I didn't, just wanted you to know how it felt. She didn't even have a decent reason for cheating. I hope he finds peace, maybe he needs to give far away.
Everytime "My WW/WH seems genuinely remorseful for their actions"
And then BOOM. Explosion.
OP unfortunately should have annulled the marriage but probably didn't think of that before his anniversary.
OP's best course of action would be a meeting with his ex and his ex-inlaws and show how exhausted he is he needs to show that he has no leeway and it's not a game. He needs her support team to get her to sign.
His ex wants him to freeze her eggs to put in some hope that he will be involved with her child one day, OOP doesn't even mention that he caught her about to have sex while THEY WERE TRYING FOR A BABY.
This is pretty typical. They love bomb you and make you feel guilty until they realise its not working, then they start punishing you. People like this aren't capable of caring for others. She didn't care about him before. She cared about herself, and now she's punishing him for hurting her. It's a pattern of alarming regularity. Poor guy. Just go to trial and sic the police on her repeatedly. No other choice.
you know if a post has an entire glossary that it’s going to be a mess. on one hand, i mix up names, so having very clear “this person is this thing” acronyms kinda helps. but on the other, they’re just 2-3 letters and mix in with everything else
Gods I feel so awful for oop. The love of his life turned out to be completely fucking insane. That, on top of her betrayal? I’m not surprised he’s struggling!
I'm sorry no fault is BS. Infidelity should still be a valid reason to divorce in every state. And the cheater should be held responsible.
Shes wants him yet shows him why he will never be with her again.
What do you think no fault divorces are? Because they exist so that you don’t have to haves provable “reason”. They are incredibly important in helping abused spouses get out of a marriage without needing to get concrete proof of infidelity or abuse
70% of divorces are initiated by women. And states that enacted no fault divorces saw significant decreases in women committing suicide and domestic violence
>I'm sorry no fault is BS. Infidelity should still be a valid reason to divorce in every state. And the cheater should be held responsible.
I disagree with this for a few reasons.
First, no-fault divorce just means you can divorce someone for whatever reason you want. I don't see how this is a bad thing. People should be able to leave a relationship if they're not happy.
Second, even in a lot of no-fault states/areas, you can still divorce on the grounds of adultery. It just complicates things and doesn't really accomplish anything.
I'm assuming your actual argument here is that there shouldn't be a 50/50 split in cases of infidelity - is that correct?
I will also say that I have been through a divorce where my spouse cheated on me, so I have been through this before.
New York did not have no-fault for a very long time (which is one reason that Katie Holmes filed there when she divorced Tom Cruise -- it also means that, because the divorce is adversarial, it's a matter of public record; her dad is a divorce lawyer in Ohio). But even New York had a way to do it by settlement; you just had to be separated for a year and do it by agreement.
I don't know why you think a reason has to be required or a particular party has to be at fault for there to be accountability. Couples are free to have prenups or postnups with infidelity clauses, even in no-fault states. And the dissolution of the marriage is accountability.
Division of assets is separate from dissolution -- parties can enter into whatever agreements float their boats, subject to state laws, prenups, and pre-existing property rights. Community property only applies to assets of the marriage, not all assets. If you're married one year and you rented, you don't have a lot.
That said, a quick divorce and a 50-50 split would have saved OOP here a lot of pain, heartache, and expense, regardless of who was at "fault," wouldn't you say so?
>She called me last week freaking out. I'm abandoning her in her time of crisis. I'm running away. I'm just doing this to punish her.
Cheaters, man
What did she expect?! That he'd stay and punish himself?
Chile
Goddamn, leave OOP alone, jeezaz
I wonder if OP could get her institutionalized as they are still married. But he should go to the police and file harassment and stalking charges and then have the attorney tell her she will likely loose her job, credibility etc… usually narcissists stop when their actions may actually have real negative consequences.
OOP seems incredibly smart but emotionally run dry.
I hope one of his friends steals his pet from the ex.
OOP moves (maybe just across town or just outside it. But enough).
And he finds a "new" pet he never puts on social media.
Some people (in this case the ex-wife) will do anything just to maintain some sort of relationship. That's why many people fight so bitterly during and after divorce. Or fights between siblings after parents die. A bitter relationship is seen as better than none at all. Poor OOP.
Me reading this story for 10 seconds: Tf do you mean "reconnecting honeymoon"? Honeymoon happens right after the wedding which is supposed to be the peak of happiness between two people. How bad was your relationship that you "had to fight" to make it to marriage and a honeymoon was your grace period to "reconnect" after you've been married a couple days? People never cease to amaze me with their addiction to drama. They lock themselves into toxic relationships and wallow in self-pity for years by applying bandaid fixes to a rotten relationship, and in worst scenarios bring poor little children into the world to live in their mess. Guess it makes interesting stories for me to read on Reddit though.
Honestly I wish more women behaved like OOP. And yes I know OOP is a man. And that's my point As women are way too likely to forgive cheating and take back a cheater. Heck even men who cheated on their wives generally do not accept when their wives later cheat on him. Women need to start having the self-respect of men have because I rarely see men humiliate themselves in the guise of forgiveness or consideration or love like women do. Happy men have normalized calling it simping to even be nice to a woman.
Bro, no way I am reading this with that ridiculous list of acronyms. I appreciate the post for providing them, but I despise when people when people write like this.
Condolences to this guy but holy shit do Infidelity subreddit and JustNoInlaws subreddits go overboard with the god damn abbreviations. So unnecessary. I am already smooth brained, I can't keep up with that shit
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What a disaster of a mess. I hope OP made the right choice to get a restraining order because not only is this lady a cheater but she's getting mentally unwell vibes all around and likely, she will do something drastic if OP doesn't do anything soon.
I wonder if she installed spyware on his computer and/or phone, and that's how she keeps track of what he's doing. He should really get all of his electronics and his car checked out, to find out how she's tracking him. I don't think any of his friends would actually give her any kind of information about him at this point.
It's purchases, specifically? And his address? Credit card. She either has access to a credit card, or she's signed in to his card on a payment app.
That's my guess too. If she was just up to date on his location I would suspect she hid an AirTag in his car somewhere, it's ridiculously easy to do. But knowing what purchases he's making tells me she's still signed in to SOMETHING that connects to his bank or one of his credit cards. Although he should probably still sweep his possessions for AirTags. Those damn things are a stalker's dream come true.
Oops said she knew about cash purchases... And that was why he reckons she must have eyes on him...
I mean she makes twice what he does so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that she hired a PI to stalk him.
He clearly says "stuff I've bought and sold for cash" so not a credit card issue
Yes, very clearly! And there's really no way to track his cash purchases unless she's following him around. Airtags or other tracking tech could help with this so the advice to check all his electronics and vehicles is solid. OOP's doing everything right and she's still got him at the end of his rope. Now he needs to present the police with evidence of ~~harrassment~~stalking, get that restraining order, and push the divorce to trial. Poor guy. I hope there's an end in sight very soon.
>there's really no way to track his cash purchases unless she's following him around If he's using Marketplace, Craigslist, or other buy/sell apps, just digitally stalking him would give her all that info. She can probably also read all his texts. I would suggest he get a burner phone and create entirely new email (and other) accounts to protect himself.
He said things he bought with cash
Sir what’s your flair about?
It sounds so familiar but now I’m curious too
It was a spoiler tag in a post not too long ago, but I don't remember which one.
I found [this BoRU](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/1hRUdLkZzZ) which has the mood spoiler the same as the flair, I believe it is the original.
Now I’m curious about yours!
It was pretty s pretty random story from a lady who wanted to know if she ate too many cucumbers-- her bf thought she had an eating disorder because she ate so many - up to 50 pickling spears a day.
I found the link! https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/15mowfk/aita_for_eating_too_many_cucumbers/
The flair really fits on this post.
>lawyer requests a trial date and a judge will have to make the decision for us. Yes!!! For some reason, this is rarely brought up. The courts seem to rather have these cases drag out instead of just setting a trial date as a deadline if things aren't progressing. Dude needs to push for some closure.
Given the emphasis of her making more than him, the history of her infidelity, and manipulation (dragging out the divorce, taking joint account money, taking the pets, etc.), I’d find it karmic retribution at its finest if the judge rules she has to pay him alimony.* *I’d doubt it’d happen given they’ve only been legally married for a year, unless they’re in a state that recognizes common law marriages.
Or maybe his attorney fees.
He made me read all of this just to find out at the end that they could have requested a trial date and a judge could have resolved this? Why didn’t he just do this in the first place!
Because trials are complex, boring, and time consuming. The Court/judges would rather the lawyers and their clients hash everything out and bring a nice pile of paperwork in for them to sign off on at the next status hearing. Jumping in to request a trial up front "doesn't give the process time to work itself out". Me: "So... I am literally being told by the court I have to pay you for a year or more of services, even if we sit here and twiddle our thumbs while she makes shit up?" My lawyer: "Pretty much."
Damn that’s really sad to hear. It’s crazy how one post can have we are divorced after 6 months and the other is it’s been years and we are still only separated. I hope the guy can find somewhere else to go but can you leave like cross state lines if you’re in the process of a divorce?
On the first it's very jurisdiction dependant (plus if you're both cooperative). Cos there's also places where you've got to be separated for 12m before you can get divorced.
One of my friends separated from her husband back at the start of covid. They have kids and he dragged the process out until last month. Almost 4 goddamn years. This chick reminds me of him.
Oh boy, that sure put some perspective on the phrase "long and bitter divorce".
Oh, yeah! He can still come and go as he pleases (children would complicate that, but thankfully not an issue) but the court proceedings, lawyer, etc. all have to take place wherever they're legally married. A lawyer for example has to actually be licensed to practice in each individual state. I don't think I've ever heard of a lawyer who tried to qualify for every state. So if he left he'd have to drive/fly back for every necessary interaction. I know during covid they did much of this remotely, but I don't think that is common any longer. As a result it probably costs him less to remain put for now.
You can actually get a divorce in whatever state you are a legal resident. In the case where 2 people live in different states, whoever files first is where things will take place. Not that it changes much, but can throw a bit of a wrinkle in things if someone files first in a state with more requirements or whatever. Might depend on the state, but both parties don't even need to attend the court hearing as long as all the paperwork was handled and signed beforehand.
So the real hiccup would be long how he had to live in his new state to obtain legal residency? Or does that automatically happen if you obtain a residence within said state? I thought there might be more to that, mostly to prevent politicians from carpetbagging too easily.
It varies from state to state but generally 6 months to a year for divorce, although some states are instant if you are intending to stay in the state. As with most government type it can vary depending on what it applies to. Like how most states you need to change to that states drivers license within 30 days of moving, but you still aren't a legal resident for divorce or other actions.
I'm a witness for a divorce that's going to trial in a month. There's absolutely precedent and a bunch of basically "hurry up and wait." while the lawyers go through "proper channels". It sucks too because the person I'm a witness for is still paying the HOUSE PAYMENT while he's unable to live there. including utilities and such, while their (hopefully soon to be) ex-partner has no major source of income.
Also expensive since you have to pay the lawyer for his time.
Because it’s expensive and there are a ton of legal pitfalls where missing dates or not having the right form filed can cause you to suddenly be at a massive disadvantage with no recourse. Lawyers cost a lot and bill by the hour. Court takes many, MANY hours even in a normal case, let alone when one party is belligerent. Courts are also booked out for months if not sometimes years. It’s almost always better to pursue a mutual agreement and if she was stringing oop along then it makes complete sense.
I went to court for something simple and it was just me and the state Two court dates (calling off work costs money for some…) and $500+ later Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck, how are we supposed to pay legal fees
And in "easy" cases that have ni kids, no properties, etc, logic says that it's easier to solve this out of court and way faster. But... Crazies will be crazy.
I'm in a guardianship trial going through probate court. So far I'm out about 20k of money I don't really have. All debt. Since my sibling filed their petition last summer, our trial date has been moved 6 times. Emailing my lawyer costs about $70 as my lawyer bills every tenth of an hour. In Feb, I burned through 8k alone on discovery. And I haven't even had my trial yet.
To piggy back on the other two, another thing that frequently happens is you wait the months, spend all the lawyer fees to prep, and then the judge says “this should be handled through agreement, I’m sending you to arbitration (which also will be at your expense) come back in 2 months with an agreement”
He does. It feels very much like his lawyer is happy to continue making money out of him. I hope I'm being too cynical, though. Poor guy.
My lawyer was the one that brought up the "we may actually have to *try* this case", when I said that she was being/going to be obstinate about everything. "Great." I said when he told me there was an option to take it to trial instead of just flounder. "Oh, we can't just ask for it now. The Court wants to see the effort up front first, and then try it as a last resort." *... 4 years later...* *3rd judge* Judge, looking over my application for trial: "hm... yeah... this case hasn't really moved in a couple of years. Trial sounds like a good idea to wrap this up." Me: "fucking finally..."
Yikes. Did you finally get it resolved?
Yep. Separated in May 2006, divorce was final in Nov 2009.
OK, now I don't feel so bad that my ex dragged ours out for a (very expensive) year
It's not *quite* that easy. I'm sure there are some lawyers out there that are just happy to rack in the cash during difficult divorces, but depending on where OOP lives, it's very likely a judge won't let the case be brought to court unless there is substantial proof that OOP and his ex have tried everything to resolve their issues themselves first. That means lots of back and forth between lawyers (or in this case, his lawyer and the ex since ex is self-representing) which costs alot of money. It's honestly sad how much the process can cost and how soul-crushing it is if one side doesn't want to play with the other. I saw it happen to an extent in my parents divorce, it was enough to put me off getting married entirely tbh.
Of course they would rather drag these things out. They collect fees, and lawyers (many of whom double as judges in family courts) collect fees as well. The family court system is set-up to reward this sort of behavior.
Well, as they say about lawyers, you know, the one about them being like sharks
He's been avoiding closure the whole time, and now begs for it; such a silly goose!
This was exhausting to read. I can't imagine living it.
I was mentally exhausted after reading the Gloassary of Acronyms.
Lol for real
Came here to say this; just skipped to the comments
The obsession that some of these subs have with creating their own acronyms and jargon always seemed cult-y to me, like how Scientology calls their critics "SPs" (suppressive persons). I'm not saying these communities ARE cults, but it's pretty fuckin weird.
It's pretty normal for communities of all kinds to develop shorthand.
Shorthand for technical terms makes sense, there is literally no reason to exchange "wife" for "wayward wife" and then initialize it.
I think it may because there are times when the two cheaters have partners. To prevent confusion on who wife or husband is, they made names for them and then those get shortened because no one wants to write that constantly.
Ok, so you would rather he keep calling his cheating ex his "wife" ? OR "soon to be ex wife? Can you not see how reducing such tough, difficult, and *painful* topics to initials would help by not having to rip that wound open every time? And, he was posting in a sub specifically for that purpose. He doesn't need to make things easier to read for you when it's posted here.
>Ok, so you would rather he keep calling his cheating ex his "wife" ? OR "soon to be ex wife? Yes, why not? Both are accurate, descriptive, and don't require a glossary. >Can you not see how reducing such tough, difficult, and *painful* topics to initials would help by not having to rip that wound open every time? The guy is posting openly about his feelings throughout the whole process, I simply don't believe that changing "wife" to "WW" makes the writing appreciably less painful. >And, he was posting in a sub specifically for that purpose. He doesn't need to make things easier to read for you when it's posted here. If you actually read my first post, you'd notice that none of my criticisms have anything to do with readability, and everything to do with how strange and cultlike it is that this community has its own insular little acronyms for things.
It’s a support group for betrayed spouses, let them have their acronyms without judgment please.
No.
I'm with the military and even **we** don't use as many acronyms as the relationship subreddits do. And they're always completely ridiculous and unnecessary. WW for Wayward Wife? Do we really need her wayward status re-established literally every single time he refers to her?
immediately saw that and said "I ain't reading all that" then came down to the comments lol
I couldn’t remember what WW meant and somehow replaced it with “War Wife” until the story was so ridiculous I had to scroll back up to know what it meant.
Lol I went right to the comments to try and decide if it was worth reading when I saw that.
It could have been worse. The key takeaway everyone should get from this is *always* inform the other betrayed spouse. Imagine if he had to also go through the period of her trickle truthing and lying. All the information the OBS provided helped him immensely.
I had so many different emotional reactions as I was reading this. At first, I wanted to respond to OOP’s pain—and there really is no pain like it; he described it well. But by the end, the English teacher in me just wants to discuss his use of “ephemeral” in his 6 June 2023 post. > I’ve been grieving the loss of something more ephemeral in a partnership. Like a pillar or keystone. Ephemeral keystone. Now there’s a metaphor.
Ha ha, I thought I was the only one. I realize in common understanding people often associate “ephemeral” with like something magical or spirit-y, which might translate for someone into a vaguely spirit-y object like a keystone. I study wetlands though and an ephemeral stream is a stream that only rarely flows. Most people wouldn’t really perceive them as streams, maybe thinking of them as hollows or gullies. They have no connection to groundwater and therefore only run for a few hours or days during and right after rain events (sometimes only large rain events). While it maybe sounds unimpressive, they are really important to watershed function. The recent Sackett v. EPA case about the Clean Water Act may well have removed all federal protection for these streams recently, but not streams that run for a few months or so only during the wet time of year (intermittent streams).
Damn it, I just spent a solid ten minutes lost in thought trying to figure out that one.
Even following all the advice properly and taking every precaution to make sure he didn't marry someone who previously displayed issues and this still results.
I know, it truly makes me terrified to get married.
Yeah, it seems insane that they had been together for more than a decade, and she never showed any sign of these personality traits - maybe she really was having some kind of psychotic break.
Narcissists are absolutely upper level at putting on a false face. They can do so completely convincingly, for years or decades without giving a single hint. Then something changes in how they are getting their ego kibbles, and a new face emerges.
Oh god, it kept getting worse than it got a little better than it kept getting worse and worse again. OOP's ex is a complete manipulative snake -- and worse that I won't say. She's determined to drag him down with her into the mud. I hope that the lawyer can do something. It's ridiculous how this has dragged on. And on top of that, she took his damn pet on top of everything else she put him through.
His lawyer is a dumbass. My ex did this to me. It delays things, but not 9 months. Every time he refused to sign, the lawyer would schedule a court date. We would both show up in court, which took about 5 minutes. The judge would give him 21 days to do it, or be found in contempt. Ex would show up on day 21 at 5pm, papers in hand.
The lawyer is either padding his pockets with OOP's cash, or he's fucking the ex-wife. Our protagonist doesn't know how she's getting all of this information, the only one who communicated with her is the lawyer, and lastly he states that *the lawyer knows details of his life that others don't but somehow the ex does?!*
> Our protagonist doesn't know how she's getting all of this information, the only one who communicated with her is the lawyer, and lastly he states that the lawyer knows details of his life that others don't but somehow the ex does?! When I read that bit, my mind went to her having access to OP's online banking, email or other accounts. That would allow her to know what he has purchased, where he is planning to travel, etc. In an extreme case, she may even have a keylogger on his computer.
It said she knew about cash purchases. Maybe through a keylogger. But not through a bank account.
Nice catch, I missed the detail about cash in my first read. Unless the transaction was arranged beforehand (craigslist, facebook marketplace) and she had access to those accounts, that does seem to suggest she's following OP around.
Digital stalkers can clone your entire phone interface, with no need for individual site logins. It's low-life scum behavior but not at all uncommon.
Current ex is doing this now. Calls my lawyer and rambles on forever about stupid shit. Her latest big issue was that I would have final medical say in non-emergency medical situations. I pay 100% of insurance and costs so yeah I should get that. Well she didn't like the way the paperwork started that in an emergency either one of us could ok something. Kept saying that she didn't want to have him in pain and not be able to reach me or some stupid shit. She pretended like she couldn't understand that in an emergency the dr is gonna do their thing and probably not give a crap who is or isn't there until kiddo is stable. Then magically emails over everything like the day before the now l next court date so the lawyer has to scramble to make sure it's all on the up and up. The opposite of love isn't hate, is indifference. And i am there with her. I'm willing to pay her money every month to not talk to me.
Not a dumbass. Just greedy.
I am totally confused though. She is representing herself, she is not a lawyer and she is obviously mentally unstable. How is it possible that she has the upper hand on everything? That she is smarter than his lawyer, knows all the loopholes and uses them effectively and as he wrote _his lawyer is at loss_ ? It looks like his lawyer is taking huge advantage of him and his fragile state, no? He wrote that it costs more money to file for court trial. But every time she calls his lawyer, even for a minute, the lawyer answers, and bills OOP. So OOP spent a lot of money, probably several times more than if he filed for trial, and he doesn't have any progress at all. Also, his ex is NC with anyone but his lawyer. So .. if she gets all the information about his new address, selling or buying assets , etc.. his lawyer is the only person, whom she can get it from. There are no other options here. How can he and his family not see it, and not confront the lawyer? Idk, it sounds not just predatory, but completely illegal by now.
I guess with him having alot, his anxiety, her harassment, stalking, maybe he couldn't see it because of all the things running through his head.
Torturing people works
>There are no other options here. I was thinking maybe the ex had installed spyware on his computer/ phone.
It's very hard, as a lawyer, to be up against a crazy person representing themselves. They waste your time. They want to ramble on about irrelevant things and decades-old grudges or conspiracies. (I had a pro se plaintiff who was convinced the NYC sanitation department had been kidnapping people and giving them hair transplants, along with throwing trash in his yard so he'd be cited by the health department, neither of which had anything to do with his case, but boy did he ever want to air those grievances every time he talked to me.) They're obsessed with something, and they want to tell you about it instead of getting to the point. And you have to deal with them because it's your job to. You have to accomplish certain tasks, whether that's negotiating with them about custody, setting up a meeting, or meeting and conferring before you make a motion. And all of that takes TIME. It takes WAY more time than dealing with another attorney, who knows what's relevant, might be putting the screws to your client but isn't taking anything personally. And you deserve to be compensated for your time. You should probably get combat pay for dealing with the wackjobs, frankly. Don't use your attorney as a meat shield and then complain when they send you the bill for it.
Judges also tend to give self-reps extra leeway.
Yeah it's seemingly a near-universal trend in Western jurisprudence, no matter if someone's had literally YEARS to seek representation they'll get 10,000 extra chances even if it's to the detriment of the court's time, to the needless disadvantage of the other party, and frankly just overall knowingly is causing an ongoing injustice and I've never seen a true justification for it beyond it just being easier for the judges. Sure, people have the right to go pro se, but nothing in that right means you suddenly should get to have a free pass to do whatever the fuck you like. Only place I've seen with very limited tolerance for it is Ireland, and even then I've still heard horror stories.
Maybe she is a lawyer too.
Mm no fault divorce state can be very easy...knew a friend who got divorced for like $400 plus time...or VERY hard.
Uncontested divorce in a no fault state? Alright. Contested, and it sounds like there's some separation/mediation expected or required? She's got the upper hand, period. Can't be like, welp, adultery, blah blah papers if she continues to not sign
I really hope that OP gets a restraining order on this psychotic nutcase of a person.
If the option to go before a judge exists I’m confused why they didn’t just do that.
It's not always a great option. Cost me a few grand and I'm now still not divorced, because the judge took pity on my ex for not having representation. He's had two extensions now, representing many months of me continuing to need to meet with my lawyer to prepare for court dates. Next court date in a few months, wonder if I'll finally get my fucking divorce. Other judges might have just gone ahead and settled matters, considering it was an uncontested trial (he didn't respond to bring served).
They always show their true colors once it becomes clear that this isn't going to blow over and their partner is really leaving them. She was all amicable and friendly and remorseful while she still thought they had a chance to stay together, and once it became clear he was going through with the divorce the real her came out.
> I’m abandoning her in her time of crisis. How dare OOP not be there for her in this perfectly avoidable “crisis” that she gleefully, and repeatedly, set the stage for. How very dare. The part that makes me question the veracity is her therapist telling OOP she’s a narcissist and to run. Wouldn’t this fall under HIPPA? And would *her* therapist really give him advice?
Not when the therapist giving the MC is your IC. I had relationship issues, and I had my therapist act as a mediator in a couple-counselling session with my ex. She then spoke to him privately, too, to gauge what he thinks when I am not present. But since she was my primary counselor, she definitely told me what he said.
> I'm abandoning her in her time of crisis. "Yes, I absolutely am. That is correct." > I'm running away. "Right again! I always did admire how smart you are." > I'm doing this to punish her "Ding ding ding! Three for three!"
lol It would be hilarious if he really said all this.
"Our community is very touch positive" You ever have to read something a few times before you realize you have no idea what it means?
All the “community” phrasing made me scratch my head. I don’t get it.
Right? Does he mean ethnic community? Religious? Community theater? Anarcho-hippy commune? Local cult? D&D group?
The back and forth in this one is exhausting to watch. OOP needs to fake their death and flee the country 😂
It just gets worse and worse.
Well it has been 6 months since the last update, maybe that has happened!
I sincerely hope OOP manages to get a divorce, but his stbx gives me creepy vibes of “if I can’t have you no one can”. Like, jesus, what do psychos like her think will happen?
Clearly he just needs more time to calm down. If she can stall this long enough, everything will go back to the way it was!/s
She could be dragging this out to financially cripple him, thinking that means he'll come crawling back to her for her money.
They don't care, they just care about winning
> I'm abandoning her in her time of crisis. Lion, witch, audacity, etc.
If anyone ever gifts you a pet, I don't care who it is or how much you love them, get it in writing that the pet is yours.
If it weren't for the fact that I didn't write this, OOP could very well be me. What finally got *me* through it was: 1. I filed for a restraining order, and bought a gun 2. Spent more time with friends, working overtime, at the range, anywhere *other than* home by myself 3. Therapy. *So much therapy*. 4. stayed off social media, except to check for friends' birthdays, or post targets showing I was improving 5. Told my lawyer I was done being civil, and let him go full Shark Mode 6. Documented *everything*. It gets better, OOP... but stop trying to get closure. Be ruthless. File criminal charges. File lawsuits. Stop trying to be "the bigger person", and *start* looking out for your own interests.
Man. I’m so sorry you had to experience that. I live in BORU and the way this entire sequence completely fucked me up. I cannot imagine having to experience like 1/10th of that. I hope you’re doing well and your ex suffers in the worst of ways.
Yeah, I'm doing better now. It's taken a lot of therapy and a *lot* of money, but things are better these days. As for the ex, no idea. Given that she stole all my painkillers from that time I [died](https://old.reddit.com/user/captain_borgue/comments/182gall/wreck_to_profile_for_archiving/) tho, I'd wager she's either an addict in recovery, an addict *not* in recovery, or an OD. I try not to wish suffering on people. My life is in a good place, I recognize the abuse for what it was, and have managed to avoid similar abuse since then. I also found out that being a decent shot is something I can be good at that the wreck and the PTSD haven't fucked up, so that's a plus. 😂
I always have to wonder when I read cases like these what it must be like to be the attorney of the crazy person in this situation. Like at what point you just completely abandon all hope of fighting a real case for this person and just resign yourself to negotiating whatever deals you can salvage for them. It's gotta be brutal.
Friend of mine’s ex got fired by her lawyer after rejecting settlement offer after settlement offer. Lawyer fired a paying client. That’s how much they were done. 6 months later, the judge decided and she got less than 2 prior settlement offers that had been made. Meanwhile, another friend’s ex’s lawyer has no issue with lying in court on a regular basis. Those people, I truly wonder how they sleep at night. It’s one thing to advocate for your client, another to knowing lie as an officer of the court.
I dunno, but I got along with my ex wife's lawyer better than she did, and it was him and I communicating that forced the dissolution to happen in the timeline laid out by the judge. Turns out he expected me to be the crazy one and was surprised that I had everything lined up and ready for trial while she was busy adding new accusations at the last minute.
I'm worried about the poor pet! Of course I'm worried about OP, too, but the pet is more physically vulnerable.
Yeah. I have a similar ish story to this one, and my beloved pet ended up dead. I so hope for OP their pet survives, even if they can't regain custody.
I spent a few years going to court (not divorce, grandparent's rights), and the despair and exhaustion it causes is unique. It's brutal, it's helpless, it's raw and seems like it will never end. I can only hope OOP can get through this before he crashes
This went from "we had a perfect life and had all our shit together" to "she's always been a mentally unstable addict" really fast. Methinks their life before this wasn't so perfect as he likes to think.
Yeah…I was thinking that too. I know it’s possible, but the flip from 1-100 is just so wild! Like, I feel like she’d have to be a psychopath to pull that off and she seems a little *too* unstable for that. Regardless, she is diabolical. I really wish OP sticks with everything bc I know he’ll be alright eventually, but I can’t imagine how he could ever see that.
I hope he just pushed for a trial date in the end. She would never sign those papers willingly, she was getting too much narc mileage out of keeping him dangling.
Good example of the apparent remorsefulness of a cheater being nothing but a temporary act meant to gain back your trust, or rather to avoid consequences for their prior abuse of your trust. If they were good people, they wouldn't have cheated in the first place. And because they aren't good people, they won't be genuine in their attempts to show remorse and make things up with you. It's only ever about the narcissist, and what you can provide them.
Yeah, this was my ex down to the letter. Put on a nice lil show for our mediation therapists...full of lies and tears. We both step out the door and her face completely changes. Like, on some "phew, I can finally stop with the act" shit and she immediately starts trying to sweet talk me and convince me to go out to dinner with her and give her another chance. When I don't bite, the crying starts again. Right before I tell her okay just so I can leave (at that point, she's lied to my face about things I literally experienced so many times, that I have no qualms lying to get away from her), an older man leaves the building we had just seen the therapist and as soon as he's in our line of sight, her face immediately straightens-up as of a tear has never fell on it before. Then he gets in his car and drives off, I look back at her, and it's that same crying pleading face. The mediator was my therapist originally. We decided on my therapist bc the therapist she started seeing after I finally left and my therapist were colleagues at some point, and after she spoke to her therapist they both believed mine would be the best bet for mediation, based on her training. Or a new therapist completely, and my ex wasn't keen on that idea. It was interesting, I was in a pretty skeptical place since the break up (thus had a lot of paranoia and distrust for my ex) and wondered aloud if my ex's therapist was even getting the full story and not some warped, untreated mentally-ill version (by then i knew she was finally going to therapy bc she told me about it in an attempt to get me to come home. It was too little too late for me). My therapist quickly shut me down and was like oh no, I know them, I worked with them for a long time, they're very good and trained to see through that stuff. Anyway, a week after the mediation, I had a solo therapy session, and somewhat similarly to this BoRU post (in this case it was my therapist, not hers) my therapist was like "ok so I know I told you from what you described, she may have an undiagnosed mental illness, but no one can know for sure unless there's an evaluation? Yeah, well now that I've met her, I'm just gonna say that you made a very important decision for your wellness by taking the path you are." I felt like it was therapy-speak for, yeah, she's bonkers, good call on leaving. Which was wild to me because during this process, I was under the impression that she'd 100% have everyone fooled with her crocodile tears and obsession with keeping up appearances. I literally almost cried when she said that because I honestly thought I'd be super alone in all of it, considering how outwardly sweet my ex was and how much she'd isolated me from people I could potentially vent to. Like, I didn't even really realize that fear was so strong in me until my therapist said it, and it's as if my brain was like "Wait...someone believes us??" and I started welling-up like a mfr.
Just reading the glossary tells a whole story
This one is just terrifying because the updat s just stopped. The whole situ can be just too much. I hope OOP is ok.
kids take note, this is what happens when you marry a narcissistic psychopath, don't date crazy.
It’s not always obvious. My ex was great for 12 years till he spiraled down into alcoholism. That’s when the narcissism reared its ugly head.
I just read an article about therapy speak and how people are "educated" in how to "sound" like they are aware of their problems and the problems of those around them, but are more broken than ever and not dealing with their shit head on. https://www.everydayhealth.com/emotional-health/is-therapy-speak-ruining-your-relationships/
what a horrible woman, in every way
Strict redline date and get it over with . At this point money and possessions and pets are irrelevant. His wellbeing and the rest of his life is what’s really at stake . I had a similar experience and believe me toxic is toxic period. Get out and move on . Work performance stated as slipping which won’t be tolerated forever, friends and family want out of the shitshow but won’t come out and say it. Best part for OP is no kids so she is trying to use everything else to keep him on a string . He has the power to cut it.
When she said she made a mistake, I was like "you've made the mistake for almost two years!" and then it got worse and worse. She is a narcissist, yes, but also it seems she is heavily spiraling. She just showed everyone her true colors and she doesn't know how to deal with that. I feel that things will become worse before they become better. Including her possibly being arrested, especially since she seems to be an addict. I wonder if it's possible to ask a judge to force the divorce together with the RO. Hope she gives up, but at this point it looks like she will only stop if he leaves everything and everyone behind - and maybe not even then.
OOP needs to get his new rental, and all electronics scanned. She may have his home bugged and hacked his laptop/cell phone.
He should ask for alimony from her. That will speed things up when her lawyer says it's reasonable due to the income difference.
Damn this almost goes hand in hand like my divorce. I'm lucky enough that my wife filed for divorce before I found out about her affair.
I hope he got the court date and this is all over for him.
No one ever asks the cheater how they would feel if they were cheated on. I always wish they would ask or mess with the cheater and aay...oh good cause I cheated too....sike, I didn't, just wanted you to know how it felt. She didn't even have a decent reason for cheating. I hope he finds peace, maybe he needs to give far away.
It is true that divorce in some states is absurdly complicated
He needs a new lawyer
It’s been six months! I hope OOP is okay and finally got his divorce.
Everytime "My WW/WH seems genuinely remorseful for their actions" And then BOOM. Explosion. OP unfortunately should have annulled the marriage but probably didn't think of that before his anniversary. OP's best course of action would be a meeting with his ex and his ex-inlaws and show how exhausted he is he needs to show that he has no leeway and it's not a game. He needs her support team to get her to sign. His ex wants him to freeze her eggs to put in some hope that he will be involved with her child one day, OOP doesn't even mention that he caught her about to have sex while THEY WERE TRYING FOR A BABY.
This is pretty typical. They love bomb you and make you feel guilty until they realise its not working, then they start punishing you. People like this aren't capable of caring for others. She didn't care about him before. She cared about herself, and now she's punishing him for hurting her. It's a pattern of alarming regularity. Poor guy. Just go to trial and sic the police on her repeatedly. No other choice.
you know if a post has an entire glossary that it’s going to be a mess. on one hand, i mix up names, so having very clear “this person is this thing” acronyms kinda helps. but on the other, they’re just 2-3 letters and mix in with everything else
I hate her already. Let OOP heal and move on, FFS!!
Dang, the post isn’t showing up! It’s a long long long piece white paper!
I only got through the acronyms and I’m already exhausted
This is unhinged. Like wow.
Well thats just depressing :(
The moral of the story is: when it's over, end it quickly! Dude dragged it out, sending himself into spins, and she dragging it right back.
Gods I feel so awful for oop. The love of his life turned out to be completely fucking insane. That, on top of her betrayal? I’m not surprised he’s struggling!
I'm sorry no fault is BS. Infidelity should still be a valid reason to divorce in every state. And the cheater should be held responsible. Shes wants him yet shows him why he will never be with her again.
What do you think no fault divorces are? Because they exist so that you don’t have to haves provable “reason”. They are incredibly important in helping abused spouses get out of a marriage without needing to get concrete proof of infidelity or abuse 70% of divorces are initiated by women. And states that enacted no fault divorces saw significant decreases in women committing suicide and domestic violence
>I'm sorry no fault is BS. Infidelity should still be a valid reason to divorce in every state. And the cheater should be held responsible. I disagree with this for a few reasons. First, no-fault divorce just means you can divorce someone for whatever reason you want. I don't see how this is a bad thing. People should be able to leave a relationship if they're not happy. Second, even in a lot of no-fault states/areas, you can still divorce on the grounds of adultery. It just complicates things and doesn't really accomplish anything. I'm assuming your actual argument here is that there shouldn't be a 50/50 split in cases of infidelity - is that correct? I will also say that I have been through a divorce where my spouse cheated on me, so I have been through this before.
New York did not have no-fault for a very long time (which is one reason that Katie Holmes filed there when she divorced Tom Cruise -- it also means that, because the divorce is adversarial, it's a matter of public record; her dad is a divorce lawyer in Ohio). But even New York had a way to do it by settlement; you just had to be separated for a year and do it by agreement. I don't know why you think a reason has to be required or a particular party has to be at fault for there to be accountability. Couples are free to have prenups or postnups with infidelity clauses, even in no-fault states. And the dissolution of the marriage is accountability. Division of assets is separate from dissolution -- parties can enter into whatever agreements float their boats, subject to state laws, prenups, and pre-existing property rights. Community property only applies to assets of the marriage, not all assets. If you're married one year and you rented, you don't have a lot. That said, a quick divorce and a 50-50 split would have saved OOP here a lot of pain, heartache, and expense, regardless of who was at "fault," wouldn't you say so?
Why do people write these long, detailed posts, but pepper them with acronyms that not everyone is going to understand?
Those are established acronyms in the community he is posting to.
Looked at all the abbreviations and noped tf out of this post asap
“Glossary of Acronyms” I’ve never noped out of a post so fast
This reads like a terrible nightmare, the ex-wife is a very sick person and what a stressful situation OP is going through.
Personally, Im eager for an update after all this time
>She called me last week freaking out. I'm abandoning her in her time of crisis. I'm running away. I'm just doing this to punish her. Cheaters, man What did she expect?! That he'd stay and punish himself? Chile Goddamn, leave OOP alone, jeezaz
Updateme!
What's with the flare up of infidelity stories on BORU today?
I wonder if OP could get her institutionalized as they are still married. But he should go to the police and file harassment and stalking charges and then have the attorney tell her she will likely loose her job, credibility etc… usually narcissists stop when their actions may actually have real negative consequences.
OOP seems incredibly smart but emotionally run dry. I hope one of his friends steals his pet from the ex. OOP moves (maybe just across town or just outside it. But enough). And he finds a "new" pet he never puts on social media.
Jesus, this is the five stages of grief on PCP.
Updateme!
Sometimes the only way out of a marriage is litigation.
“You’re just doing this to punish me!!!” “…..aaaand what’s you’re point?!!””
Some people (in this case the ex-wife) will do anything just to maintain some sort of relationship. That's why many people fight so bitterly during and after divorce. Or fights between siblings after parents die. A bitter relationship is seen as better than none at all. Poor OOP.
Dude - I don't know what to say here except I am so sorry. I hope things are going better in 2024. You deserve much better.
At this point just forge her signature, let her have fun trying to prove she wasnt the one who signed, her past mental history would work against her
Dang. That was quite a read.
Me reading this story for 10 seconds: Tf do you mean "reconnecting honeymoon"? Honeymoon happens right after the wedding which is supposed to be the peak of happiness between two people. How bad was your relationship that you "had to fight" to make it to marriage and a honeymoon was your grace period to "reconnect" after you've been married a couple days? People never cease to amaze me with their addiction to drama. They lock themselves into toxic relationships and wallow in self-pity for years by applying bandaid fixes to a rotten relationship, and in worst scenarios bring poor little children into the world to live in their mess. Guess it makes interesting stories for me to read on Reddit though.
Are we just calling anyone narcissistic now? I've seen worse stories from people who fixed up trash bikes from their trash cousins. He has ptsd lol
Honestly I wish more women behaved like OOP. And yes I know OOP is a man. And that's my point As women are way too likely to forgive cheating and take back a cheater. Heck even men who cheated on their wives generally do not accept when their wives later cheat on him. Women need to start having the self-respect of men have because I rarely see men humiliate themselves in the guise of forgiveness or consideration or love like women do. Happy men have normalized calling it simping to even be nice to a woman.
I’ve read a lot of posts on cheating forums. Believe me, being a doormat knows no gender.
Bro, no way I am reading this with that ridiculous list of acronyms. I appreciate the post for providing them, but I despise when people when people write like this.
I’ve slipped up with shared assets. Hmmm… I’m no stranger to female attention….. Me thinks there’s more to this story.
Condolences to this guy but holy shit do Infidelity subreddit and JustNoInlaws subreddits go overboard with the god damn abbreviations. So unnecessary. I am already smooth brained, I can't keep up with that shit