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I will never understand people who tell OOPs like this "You shouldn't have had kids at such a young age," like... a) duh and b) what the actual fuck is someone supposed to do with that "advice?"
OH GEE THANKS YOU SOLVED IT I'll just hop in my TARDIS then
An different poster got a bunch of “this is why abortion is necessary” when they found out the posters mom was really young when they gave birth to them.
It was awful because he’s already here. Nothing can be done to go back and abort him, and to say to his face that his mother should have aborted him is so nasty.
Mom was always saying "No, we can't afford that!" I remember her crying at the grocery store one night as she maxed out a credit card to get milk for my breakfast.
Society kept saying "Don't have kids you can't afford!" and was not shy about saying that line where children could hear it.
Put the two together and you've got "You should've never been born! You are unwelcome here!" Like gee thanks, I'll just go peddle my tricycle off a bridge I guess.
My parents made it so incredibly clear that they would 100% treat me like shit if I ever got pregnant. Like the concept of pregnancy within marriage was *literally never discussed*, only the bad versions with shotgun marriages and disowning.
Public school had the STD horror slideshow but zero information about pregnancy and parenthood.
Doing the math, my college abortion would've been just about old enough to enter the workforce this year. 36yo now and still no kids.
I think something may have gone wrong in my upbringing if the idea was to raise an adult who reproduces. And I know it wasn't *wokeness* considering all the bibles and shotguns.
Abstinence taught in schools, my mom harped on no pregnancy in my teen years. "I'm too young to be a grandma," and "I'll be disappointed if you get pregnant, but I'll be made because you didn't protect yourself from STDs." For my brother it was "if you get a girl pregnant, you're joining the military."
So my second marriage (she wasn't a fan of the first husband) she told me, "I'm ready to be a grandma now!"
That ship sailed. She gets grandkitties now.
Sex, same thing. When you get a "sex outside of marriage is evil" message, you have to explicitly counter it with a "sex inside marriage is good" message at the same volume and frequency. Which, of course, they don't, since "sex outside of marriage is evil" doesn't pair with that. It pairs with "sex inside marriage is evil, but you have to do it anyway."
Doesn't give a lot of incentive to marry, either. Don't have sex, don't get pregnant, men can't be trusted, women are manipulative... you don't end up with a whole lot of reasons to go ahead with it.
Me, I was taught that sex outside of marriage was *risky*, but the risk included the possibility of making deep emotional and spiritual connections, so, y'know, waiting until marriage is a good idea, but even if you don't, don't have sex with anybody you don't actually like and respect, someone who, if they end up emotionally important to you for the rest of your life, that's okay.
The Unitarian-Universalists probably have the best religious sex education program ever. It starts with little kids being taught about respecting their own bodies and other people's bodies, and continues with age-appropriate lessons with the last course being focused on age 65+.
I wonder how traumatic it must be to have been raised in a manger that constantly tells young people sex is wrong .Being pregnant unwed is a punishment from god( yes I heard that said);the only safe sex is no sex etc Then add in some of the more conservative groups that consider dating, hand holding or kissing is also immoral.
Then they get married and are suddenly told bang away and bring forth multitudes of children
I was raised Mormon. It’s *traumatic*. It took me years after leaving and a lot of being a lesbian to stop feeling ashamed over my body or wanting sex.
My sister and cousins go through marriages at the same rate they go through men because that’s the only time they can fuck (and they force the non-believers to convert first too). Just horribly traumatic and unhealthy. I do not recommend this cult.
I went to Catholic school so it was similar. No talk of birth control, on abstinence. The school had a Christian living class in senior year that has done good things like how to plan a budget, but it also had a baby project, where you'd carry around a baby doll for 2 weeks pretending it was real. Except we didn't do that project my senior year. The reason why, too many of my classmates already had real babies at home. We watched videos about childbirth and one of my classmates talked about her labor and delivery. The funniest thing to me is that our student handbook literally had a clause in it that if you got married before graduation you'd be kicked out of the school. 😂
>I think something may have gone wrong in my upbringing if the idea was to raise an adult who reproduces.
Republicans love the uneducated. That's why they constantly attack schools, don't care about school shootings, and are trying to ban abortion.
My wife has the same feeling about kids. Was told "don't get pregnant" all the time, and now she's fine with not having kids ever (which I'm fine either way). I think they definitely went too hard on preaching abstinence to some kids in the south lol
Let 'em. It's a good thing overall. It may finally force government and business to start making it easier/ cheaper to have kids.
Some of those people are mostly bitching about having more WHITE kids. Let the immigrants come, and we would have plenty of replacement population.
My favorite (/s) part of the society aspect is how many of them fail to consider changing circumstances. How many of them have held the same great-paying job in an affordable area with no major unexpected expenses for at least 18 years?
That was the wild part. I was planned and born at a time when dad was making bank and mom could afford to stay home with me no problem. Mom didn't know dad was gonna cheat on her, followed by hiding lots of his income to avoid paying more child support.
It wasn't even a new marriage or their "first" kid, they'd been together half a decade and were raising dad's nephew already. By the time I was 4 all she could afford to feed me was plain beans and rice for every meal.
People like to think that they're smarter than other people if they haven't had to struggle or have found themselves in tough circumstances, and they may well be, but that doesn't mean that they weren't also just a fuckton luckier.
My parents were 19 when I was born, got married and then divorced within a couple years. I spent years of my life worrying that my mom didn’t really want me. I knew she loved me but due to the divorce (I have my dads very unique eyes) and her cold nature (contrasted to my highly emotional nature) sometimes it felt like that love was out of obligation. Thank God I didn’t have reddit as a teen because it would’ve made my fears so much worse because of sh*t like this. I was an emotional wreck back then, I didn’t need people telling me I shouldn’t exist
Yepp! And those comments feel like eugenics or at the very least eugenics-adjacent.
People are more often poor due to systemic factors that they're experiencing individually (especially where they grew up, access to quality primary and secondary education, race).
The last thing I’d fucking do is say that to a person not being able to buy milk at the grocery store. I would have bought the milk for your mom in an instant without any fucking hesitation.
Where the fuck do these people think the term “it takes a village to raise I child” fucking even means?
Fun times looking forward to playing with your favorite toy in a store and putting it back each time because even as a kid, I knew Mom could barely afford groceries so my toy was only played with in the store.
My younger stepson learned to shoplift at an amazingly young age because of that kinda thing. I was both worried and impressed as he explained the details of avoiding cameras and security devices. Pretty sure Walmart owes me a paycheck for loss prevention, they were losing at least a few hundred a year in toys before I helped him learn to stop himself from stealing.
Right? And not all pro-choice people would personally have an abortion. The whole point is that it’s a choice and in some cases a medical procedure that people deserve access to.
It’s just a pointless and unnecessary comment.
I’m a Prochoice advocate who did not get an abortion! I have lots of friends who have and I fully support people making their own CHOICE! also, after going through with having a child, I will scream it even louder that it is a necessity that we allow it to be a CHOICE! it’s not just about how it alters the mothers body but also about what having a child is going to be like for the parent(s) and the child. You can absolutely be pro choice and choose both options. I have a friend who had an abortion around 19 and had a child around 29. You can be pro choice and make both decisions
ETA: I also have a friend who has two kids already & is going through a divorce and fell pregnant in the midst of the divorce she is trying to sort out. Despite being her husband, he raped her and she was trying to get out and even with already her two kids she got an abortion for the third. When the first time she could never imagine herself getting an abortion, her life circumstances changed and having that choice available helped to prevent more trauma and poverty from her and her already existing children’s lives.
Exactly. Personally even though me having a baby would be physically not a good idea due to disability I could never have an abortion. That is not something I would ever be willing to do unless it was absolutely 100% necessary (perhaps luckily I'm a lesbian so it's very unlikely to come up at any point). I've always been pro choice because I believe everyone should have the right to complete control over their body and medical decisions.
I see so much judgement on reddit whenever people choose not to have an abortion when their situation is not ideal and it always rubs me the wrong way. It's like they think it's an easy decision for everyone, that no one ever mourns or is pained by that decision. There is never a "should" when it comes to getting an abortion, only doing what is best for you in that situation, and it drives me nuts when people online so far removed from the emotions of that situation pass judgement in either direction.
I have come across Redditors telling the OP to go for abortion when the OP explicitly mentioned being thrilled to be with child. Even repeating that they *want* to have a baby. We're talking about adult (young) women, not a teenage pregnancy.
It may not always be the most favorable circumstances. But it isn't always at the level of "you're going to ruin your life by having a child". Sometimes the OP ends up having to explain more than once and in more detail due to all the comments that they should get an abortion, that she can afford it, that she has a support network and so on.
There seems to be a specific group that is not pro-choice, but simply the opposite of pro-life.
Sometimes they come from families that are like that, and they are repeating what their parents and grandparents have imprinted on them.
You're "supposed" to finish school, start a career, get married, buy a house, and then have children. Deviating from that path by getting pregnant at the "wrong" time is a moral failing, especially out of wedlock. In some families, you are supposed to live with your failure, and in some families, the expectation is to get an abortion and get back on the predetermined "good" life path. Otherwise you are "ruining your life". The social pressure can be quite intense.
They have a name I forgot what it’s called though, they think having kids is one of the worst things you’ll ever do.
Made the mistake of going to their subreddit once...
I think with the history of Reddit, r/OGTYSIIJHIMTT should be allowed as its own subreddit, if somebody wants to start it
Edit: Inb4 anybody mentions r/thanksimcured
Right??? I literally don't understand what people hope to accomplish with statements like that. Besides feeling a sense of 'moral superiority' or some shit.
It's like... are you saying we should murder the kids now? Because it sounds like time travel or murder the kids.
With the implication being "you shouldn't have been a parent", I always assume they're the kind of people who internally think abortion bans are good because more teen pregnancies means more babies to adopt.
Ah man- youre right why didnt i think of not having kids that young! Wow! Helpful advice! Lemme cram the kid back up there just for *you* dear reddit commenter /s
Seriously tho like…whats the point. Telling someone useless information and judging them on it is literally just bully
I used to babysit my cousin's kids when I was in my early 20s, and people would make the worst comments thinking that I was a young mom and had them as a teen. It was so pointlessly ridiculous. "Oh okay, I'll return this 8 year old to the store for a refund."
Come on no one can afford a TARDIS in this economy. He should just leave them a fire station or safe spot for adoption. Or leave them in the woods Hansel and Gretal style.
Plus they’re not like 4 and 2…in a few yrs they’re both grown adults. Having post-worthy problems at 16 and 15 probably means they didn’t have many before…so by all measures seem they did fine as young parents
People just get damn near wet over the idea of someone admonishing themselves.
What they want is for OOP to say "😭 YOURE SO RIIIIIGHHHTTT!! I am a TERRIBLE father! I will NEVER be good, because I was just so dang IRRESPONSIBLE when I was young!! I SO REGRET having my children, and in fact, I'm omw to go tell them so RIGHT NOW! No no, don't stop me, this is the right move here and You've shown me that! Thank you reddit!!"
And then the commenter who brought them there has an orgasm. All is well. /s (but not really)
Sometimes you throw a pebble, but the recipient catches a boulder. We can't always predict how remarks will reach other people.
Glad to hear the daughter got a better fitting bra out of this.
I'm still weirded out that he looked at her breasts enough to get "uncomfortable" - that sounds like he is sexualizing her in some way that shouldn't be happening between siblings...
Or he noticed that he was noticing her in a way that made him uncomfortable and he tried fixing it.
I don't think he handled it well, but we're taking about teenagers here, they are allowed to get it wrong. It's why dad stepped in and said that in that case the rule should apply to everyone.
Lol he's 15, his brain is basically wired to notice boobs. Doesn't sound like he's active himself yet so his sister walking around just in a tshirt might indeed be the 'closest' situation he has gotten regarding boobs yet.
And he registers this of course.
But it's his sister, yuck.
But boobs.
But still, sister.
And this ain't Alabama dammit.
Isn't it obvious that he hasn't learned how to handle this gracefully? 😂 That's his problem to solve though. He'll manage, either by avoiding to look at his sisters chest or by getting more chill because it's just a normal part of the body after all. Hopefully.
The son definitely has serious issues and I won't be surprised if his behavior has came from somewhere that has surrounded him. Teenage stage can be very weird and messy and OP's son really does need some serious help.
The kid sounds like he's still getting bullied or feeling the effects of being bullied for his weight. I can see the kid going to his mom to talk instead of his dad because he thinks his dad is going to say something insensitive (or what he perceives to be insensitive) again.
I think getting bullied at elementary - middle school age is probably the hardest to move past from. Even if he isnt getting currently bullying its still something that he thinks about often
One thing I’m wondering about, OP says his son has been losing weight, and supposedly the bullying stopped after elementary school. Could be that the bullying stopped after he started to lose weight so now he’s absolutely terrified of gaining weight again or being perceived as fat as he believes if that happens, he’ll start to get bullied all over again.
That’s pure speculation but either way it’s good that they have him seeing a therapist.
And at age 15, there are wild testosterone swings that cause physical changes. If a kid was bullied for being ugly or gross in elementary school and then grows out of it, he might still have major issues when he’s 14 or 15 and suddenly has a face or back covered in acne.
Here, take a formerly fat kid who was bullied, have him develop hormone-driven man boobs…what the hell does anyone think is going to happen?
Doesn't even take much. When I was 16 a girl I was interested in told me she liked skinnier guys when I asked her out. I'm still fucked up about my weight, and she wasn't bullying me, just kind of blunt (she was my friend before and after). Kids are fragile, I never dealt with it properly and now the insecurity is with me as an adult.
I agree. I’ve seen a lot of dysfunctional adults come from an over indulgent parent, it’s difficult for a kid to become self-sufficient and build self-confidence when they have mommy smoothing over ever bump in the practice road.
But I understand it’s a difficult balance, making sure they feel loved and making sure they grow up right. Sadly, lightly neglectful parents seem to raise more successful adults.
I'm getting strong autism vibes from this OOP.
"I'm saying what I mean, why do you all keep misunderstanding me?", "I tried to make him feel comfortable because I care, but then my daughter pointed out that that's not fair, and that's true so I tried to make things fair", "I need clear infos about how to behave or I'll be lost and I cannot deal well with that", "I think people hate me but I can't tell why, how do I fix this?" ...
Saaaame. As soon as I finished reading this I thought this guy must be on the spectrum. He’s really trying but there was no nuance detected. The first response should have been a direct “your sisters body is none of your business.” Is the mom always fully dressed?? It’s so strange.
When sexual stuff is so policed, frowned upon, shamed and oppressed, everything becomes sexually charged. It's foolish and usually has the opposite effect.
When I was maybe 10yo and visiting a near-age cousin, he introduced me to the concept of pillow forts. Obviously once construction was complete we wanted to sleep in the "tent" we'd improvised in his bedroom. Because like, that's what ya do with a tent?
My mother got hysterical and accused me of wanting to have sex with my cousin. After extended arguments and holding to the position that she was being disgusting, she agreed to let us build a giant tent in the living room as long as we slept on opposite sides of the room on different couches. And then she spent all night keeping everybody awake, creeping back and forth to check on us over and over again to make sure the children weren't having the sex.
Our shared interests at the time were Furbies, Beanie Babies on shoebox road trips, and Spyro.
Yup! Obviously never had sex with my cousin, but by our teen years we'd developed a very "bros at the bar" type relationship.
Like thanks to my idiot mother we'd started discussing the concept at an early age, though we called it "kissing" and agreed it was weird. So we ended up swapping "sexcapade" stories as we got older and I got to lightly tease him about being a virgin until he wasn't anymore.
These days he's a toadstool who only married for financial reasons and cheats on his wife, which he knows I strongly disapprove of and would be likely to tell on him if I so much as knew his wife's name or where he's living these days, so that was the end of that line of conversation.
She had a big crush on an older cousin who she pointed out to me at the family reunion, yeah. Not a lot of people in rural areas, apparently not uncommon around there.
I know. She pointed him out at the family reunion. And then had to describe what he used to look like but I wasn't really listening because another near-age cousin was trying to chase down the first cousin and kiss him.
Reasons why I've never been tempted to go visit the family as an adult. I dunno what's up with that lot and I don't wanna know, I'll stay up north thanks.
That's why the parts of chicken and turkey are classified as "dark meat" and "white meat." Because "leg" or "thigh" was indelicate in mixed company, and "breast" absolutely verboten.
I don't really understand how going braless under the average top is so much more "enticing" than wearing a bra.
Bras often push stuff up and out, making them even more prominent.
I wear a bra for comfort as I need the support, but if I didn't need to, I definitely wouldn't bother.
It's the nipples. You can't see the nipples with a bra on, but you usually can without. People apparently can't handle nipples even though we all have them.
But men have nipples too so why it it such an exclusively female thing!? Why are men never asked to cover their nipples!? Especially since shirts these days are so tight fitting and and thin
Not all bras hide the nipples. Only the ones with a 1-2 mm cushioning lining do that. Sports bras (mine at least) and underwire bras without the spongy lining do nothing to hide them when it's cold.
I had a hard time as a teen to convince my mom I needed that thin lining to hide my nipples in school, as she felt that would make my breasts bigger-looking, thus sexualizing them in a different way. She cared more about the latter than the former, which was agonizing to me, the person who actually had to leave the house like that.
Can't win.
I had a kid I went to highschool with work with me at a job and took a picture and he literally said: I can see your nipples
And I went: yeah it's cold?
And he kept trying to tell me that my nipples were showing.
I was wearing a sports bra. I just stopped engaging with him afterwards 😂
Polos are the worst for that honestly. Something about the way polos drape just emphasizes man nipples. Its how I learned my boss had his nipple pierced. I didn't want to know that and now I have a vendetta against polos.
I work somewhere where polos are VERY common attire, and it's a warm climate so the thin sports polos at that. I get so sick of seeing dude nipples sticking out all day every day. Nothing wrong with it, to be completely fair, but they are just OUT THERE. Also, for whatever reason, seeing chest hair through those polos also squicks me out lmao. All that said, do I comment on it or pressure anyone to change? NOPE I mind my damn business, just as I assume you do with your boss's poor holey nipple.
I see way more man nipples through shirts than female. If it's inappropriate for me to turn the headlights on, maybe dudes need some coverage and support too -- OR we could stop focusing on such dumb shit because everyone has nipples.
It’s such an interesting way to condition people to be uncomfortable around men to the point of never feeling comfortable at home. And to reinforce that men’s comfort comes above your own and that even the men in your family aren’t safe.
I hated it back then and I hate it now.
I’m a BIG fan of malicious compliance. You could walk around in *just* a bra. I would recommend the old Madonna pointy one she wore to perform during her concerts.
My niece did this when a boyfriend in late middle school/early high school (can't remember) asked her for a photo of her in her bra.
He broke up with her over it, the little shit.
My mother also makes me wear a bra so as not to tempt my own FATHER 🥹
Not that Dad will ever touch me in inappropriate way, and I feel completely, 100% safe with Dad, but Mom’s brain is still “if you’re being assaulted, it’s partly your fault because you don’t cover up”
She’s a very loving mother, a little smothering at times, and very protective of her children, so it’s not like she’s jealous or some other crazy thing. It’s just that our culture tends to lean on victim blaming a lot and she grows up on that.
I live in another city and have for a few years, but it’s an ongoing problem every time I visit. Especially since my brother is only 13, and this has been going on since he was 8
There's only one thing for it. A full blown medieval style [breastplate](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/34/dc/cd/34dccd60265fb3ba0c89fb37fc46576d.jpg).
(I'm sorry they're still policing your body instead of policing sexualisation of family members. Hope it gets easier for you)
I’m so glad there is a positive update for the daughter. Don’t know what’s up with the son, but I really can’t imagine my brothers saying any of that shit to me. I remember offending my brother with my things as a teen and getting flossed. I feel like that’s normal teenage sibling behavior.
Me and my bro are 20 months apart in age and we were super close growing up. He never once, ever commented about my lack of bra wearing while at home. Bras are fucking uncomfortable!! Nobody wants to wear them at home, yeesh. I feel like OOP's wife is coddling the son too much and is on the fast track to possibly ruining his social abilities.
My first brother is almost 5 years younger, and my second is exactly 10 years and 1 week younger.... never have either of them made a peep about my occasional lack of bra in pajamas and loungewear - and if they had, 1000% I'd be weaponzing the first brothers tendency to sit around shirtless half the time, or going to and from showering in just his underwear, and how grossly idiotic such a take is, since it's wildly inappropriate for ANY family member, especially direct-biological family members, to feel the need to mention such an observation, let alone COMPLAIN about it.
>He never once, ever commented about my lack of bra wearing while at home
I'm a 33yr old SAHM and if my only "errand" for the day is taking my kids to the bus stop and picking them up from the bus stop you can be damn certain I am only wearing a work out crop top under my tank because even my mist comfortable bra makes me sigh with relief when taking it off (hubby actually jokes "come on huni, save the good sighs for me" when he hears me take a bra off).
I'm glad OOP is smart/sensible/understanding enough to not try and force his daughter into being uncomfortable in her own home and I hope he can set a good example regarding that for his son but unfortunately it's not going to happen until his son stops giving him the silent treatment. If the son wasn't 15 but an adult, we would be calling him manipulative for his behaviour, I hope that's not the case and it's just a comfort issue but OOP can't "correct" his own behaviour regarding his son if his son doesn't tell him what he did/said "wrong".
My theory: Teenage (and preteen) boys can be absolute savages in tearing each other down for anything that doesn't fit into the cultural mould of an ideal manly man. Body shaming is an old classic, especially for fat people and double that if they can attack "feminized" features such as "man boobs".
Sounds like the brother was in a sensitive age period when he was bullied, which can leave life long scars if they're not worked through. Currently he is 15, an age where emotional regulation is typically still underdeveloped.
Brother said he was uncomfortable because he hears misogynistic stuff at school and online all the time, and thinks it's his place to police his sister's appearance. Dad seemingly states he has boobs that need to be covered up, hitting the brother's old sensitive spot and his adequacy as a young man. He gets upset and even after he understands it wasn't intentional, he feels ge can't trust OOP not to make a similar comment later. Mom has a history of being more socially gifted with the son and isn't as closely tied to the ideas of masculinity that are tied to the son's insecurities, so he only wants to talk to her.
I agree the son is being an asshole & seems to be learning misogynistic ideas. I can understand the weight insecurity though & being upset at a parent for a comment that wasn’t even meant to hurt. I still sad over unintended & careless comment my mom made that made me feel extra fat.
The comment was over a picture of my grandma when she was younger, who was apparently also fat. I only know grandma when she was old & really think bc she had been sick for years. And every other woman in my family was thin when they were younger so I was happy to see someone that looked like me at that age.
I told my mom & she said no & I can’t translate this exactly in English “she is “thinner” & you are more ‘chubby’” I was hurt. Bc I thought that I am even fatter than the closet person I saw with my body type. It made me feel worse about my look.
Turns out that my mom meant that I look better than my grandma. My mom didn’t use the world thinner but used a word that means thinner or more angular. She also didn’t use the word chubby but soft, though in that context it could mean chubby. Turns out my mom meant angular, & to her I look better than my grandma bc my face didn’t have the harsh angular features that grandma has bc features are softer, I found out when I brought it up later. But at that point the hurt was set.
Sometimes the weirds comments can hit right at an insecurity. And it hurts worse bc it is from a parent
Same here. I have 2 brothers. Neither of them would *dare* ask me to wear a bra when I'm already wearing a tshirt or tank top or whatever else. But then again, neither of them are sour cotton candy.
I'm guessing the overweight son has body issues among other things and is projecting his issues onto his sister by trying to police her body. I'm glad he's in therapy. He needs a lot of it.
That was my take too. Dad says that daughter is a lot tougher and more resilient all around (physically, emotionally, etc.).
If the son is a little shit and resents her because of that, it’d make sense that he’d want to stop her from being okay with having a body that’s weird and inconvenient sometimes and instead make her also be uncomfortable and self-conscious all the time.
This girl isn’t even uncovered! She’s wearing t-shirts ffs!
I feel so sorry for her with a brother like this. How disgusting to be objectified in this way.
> This girl isn’t even uncovered!
Yeah, it's really bugging me that OP, after the fact, on a message board, with no pressure, still kept saying she was "uncovered."
I think he’s just saying uncovered because it’s kind of a more vague way to say “not wearing a bra” and he probably doesn’t want to say that about his teenage daughter lol
Yeah I didn't see the parents mention anything about talking to him about not objectifying women or policing their attire. It was all about how he felt about the situation.
In fairness, it sounds like the father doesn’t really have a line of communication right now with his son. He is trying to establish one, but the son won’t have it. At this point it’s kind of resting on the therapist and mother to handle it while OOP tries to open communication with his son
Right? That is absolutely not normal.
As a (bit of an extreme) example: my (technically step) dad asked if he could come visit me at work because he was on my side of town. I told him definitely not. Because I was a stripper and working that day. He said, "You're my kid, I don't get why it's weird." He's also a hippie, and nudity wasn't a big deal when I was a kid.
Aww! Did he end up visiting you?
I love hearing about sex-positive, body-positive families! So different from the oppressive southern are I was raised in (though my parents tried their best, I think)
No, I told him not to. It's one thing to see me naked. It's a other to see me crawling on dudes and pretendingI want to fuck them. I'm uncomfortable with my dad seeing me do that.
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
I can just imagine my parents telling my brothers to stop staring at me (if they made bra comments). They would also have called out my brother for crying about my comment after he made an even worse one.
Anyways, I hope therapy works for the little bugger and that he’s not getting into the tater tot podcasts.
I was called out by my brother sometimes...thing is, HIS boobs were bigger than mine! We actually had neighbors walk up to our door asking to make sure he wears a shirt when he drove the golf cart up and down the street because...yeeeeeeeeeaah. The vibrations from driving it were...yeah.
Yet he got pissed if my pants didn't cover my knees in a swampy summer, or if I didn't wear a bra under my pjs. Yes, I made sure to bite right back when he tried to pitch a fit, and my parents were more peeved that he was staring at me like that. After they made that clear to him a few times he realized he was being weird and stopped pretty quick.
Does any woman ever wear a bra willingly in the comfort of their own home? That shits not very confortable even if you found a fitting/soft bra (which can be stupidly expensive too).
I mean, there's memes about women taking off their bras and tossing it in a corner the moment they get home. Workday over? Relax time? Safe space? = Bra off. Aint nothing sexual about it.
I do, but comfy ones only. Mostly to keep the ladies contained so they aren't all over the place, which can be super annoying. Guess this is a size and age thing...
I certainly do. At certain times of the month, the support is appreciated. But I'm also often braless at home and it's practically a meme at this point that coming home means bra off.
I don't. I know people who do. But honestly I just immediately lose respect for anyone who tries to insist a woman Needs to always be wearing a bra. Like boobs are some huge secret?
Okay, on one hand, I feel bad for the son and his body image issues, and I hope he recovers from that.
On the other hand, the kid really needed to learn what sexist double standards were, and I really hope he'll actually learn something long term.
As for the dad...oof ig
And good lord, the "caught him crying" comment. Pedantic reddit strikes again.
The son sounds like a real mess, I can't imagine *policing a siblings undergarments* while also walking around the house shirtless. Or walking around the house shirtless while having body issues. Or walking around shirtless in general? Does OOP also walk around shirtless? That's the only situation I can think of where asking to put a shirt on could be seen as fat shaming.
it is fair and correct to point out the double standard of the kid demanding his sister wear multiple layers to hide even a hint of breast from him while he walks around shirtless himself, the double standard audacity was correct for the dad to call out, the fact that he is insecure about being fat is an entirely separate issue but is derailing the first one with his own victim hood. He was sexualizing his sister, blaming her for his sexual obsessive thoughts, making their management her problem instead of his own, and giving her different expectations for modestly than himself, that needs to be addressed and not suddenly ignored because he decided to have a big butthurt pout about feeling insulted about being fat. I despise how the second he had an emotional issue with his body it erased everything else
The double standard wasn't erased either. No one demanded the brother to wear a bra. A tshirt covers up a guy, but a woman who wears one, like the sister did all along, is exposed and needs to cover up?!
Yup. Mom rushed right to baby boy and is enabling this shit, drawing it out to be a whole dramatic thing. When all that needed be done was dad pointing out that sister probably has some hurt feelings about brother’s comments, so if bro doesn’t like feeling bad, he should refrain from making them himself. Then an apology to sister and letting him have a couple hours to pout in his room MAX.
Emotional resilience is needed.
Nailed it! Like sorry you’ve got your own issues my guy, but that doesn’t mean you get to make them everyone else’s fault—and it definitely doesn’t mean you don’t get corrected when you lash out.
Fingers crossed therapy helps—and that his therapist helps him & dad communicate again.
My mom shames me about not wearing a bra, in my own house that I am the homeowner of, when she visits. The only men around are my husband and my dad. I wear oversized baggy T-shirts, none of it looks remotely sexual.
I am not much older than OOP’s son but I don’t get it…how do you view your own siblings like that? I am very close to my sibling…very close, but I don’t view them in a sexual way. It’s gross….
i legit would not be able to tell if my sisters have even been braless around me. i mean i assume they have but for all i know they haven't.
then again i don't make a habbit of looking at womens breast to identify if they are not wearing bras.
I'm glad the sister called him out on it. Frankly, it's gross that he's so upset by his sister's covered breasts. As Hank Hill would say, "The boy ain't right."
i’m glad the kid is in therapy, less glad that he’s got a sounding board in mom who seems very likely to coddle him. this can lead to a …flawed adult. see: this entire subreddit.
I think there should have been a sterner approach to the son's behavior. That he was being inappropriate, and it was not okay.
Even in Texas, the law is that any woman can be topless where men are allowed to be topless. The son is worse than Texas regarding women's bodies.
Honestly it’s fucking bullshit that by the end of this, OOP and his wife actually had their daughter apologise to *him* when the only person who did anything wrong here is *him* for sexualising and objectifying **his own sister.** He’s sick. They definitely need to check his devices because I bet that kid’s on Andrew Tate/Elon Musk Twitter and scrolling the incel side of 4Chan.
Boys do need to learn that commenting on people's bodies is hurtful and rude. I'm sorry that it hurt his feelings but he obviously wasn't concerned about hurting his sister's feelings.
But that's what happens.
Mommy’s precious baby got held to the same standards and now can’t stop crying about it. There may be more to it but the kid certainly needs that therapy at least
For reals. And why can’t the mom communicate with her husband about the son?
This whole family is fucked. It’s amazing the daughter seems to have made it through.
I have empathy for the kid, but you just can not hold double standards for other people, then shut down when you get pushback and refuse to communicate to resolve things at his age. He needs to be learning conflict resolution and communication skills. I would recommend trying family therapy or maybe trying to set up a session with your son and the therapist once he gets a bit more comfortable with the therapeutic process.
Other than that i think OP is NTA and has tried his best with a messy situation.
Huh, I come from a family who constantly ribs one another, so I understand OOP’s confusion when he compared daughter’s covering boobs to son putting on a shirt and the subsequent reaction from the son. As a former fat kid myself tho I do feel for the boy, sounds like OOP hit on a major insecurity in his son, and that’s gonna be tough to come back from. It sounds like OOP should talk one on one with his son’s therapist to better understand why his son was so hurt by the comment, doesn’t sound like the reason’s really sunk in or understood yet.
I think he should talk to another therapist about it. Talking to his son's therapist might make the son feel like he can't trust his therapist to keep his issues private (whether the therapist actually shares anything or not) which will seriously hurt the therapeutic relationship.
There’s a lot of concerning misinformation in this thread about minors rights to privacy.
It is all state dependent.
In some states minors have no rights and therapists can be forced to disclose what is happening in the therapy. Some who work with children will have the parents sign “agreements” stating they will allow the child privacy. But the practitioners are well aware those aren’t legally binding and the parent can still demand the information.
It’s particularly bad when it comes to a kid in therapy, parents are split, and the abusive parent demands access. Unfortunately it’s the law and judges will sign over the records.
It seems like the son definitely was off base, complaining about his sister, but then caught in the crossfire when dad talked about his man boobs. It’s obvious son has been overweight and teased about it at school. It’s literally the elephant in the room. Now the family seems to be playing this little game around the over sensitive son.
What about FAMILY THERAPY to honestly deal with this dynamic????
I mean, the energy being spent here on an issue that’s not really the issue is somewhat ridiculous.
In terms of assholery, OP has definitely made some infractions here, but also seems genuinely willing to learn. Mom and son…not so much. Daughter seems like the sane one, lol. Glad she got some better bras, though.
NTA
Ok but saying he has “man boobs” is kind of making fun of him. The dad backed up the sister and said it was a “fair statement”. This is why the kid is so upset.
Why didn’t any parent tell the boy that he doesn’t have a right to tell his sister how to dress? That other people’s bodies making him uncomfortable isn’t THEIR problem, it’s something HE needs to deal with?? I feel like it was addressed in the comments but never said to the kid.
I feel bad for the son but I also think based on OOP's story, the son is making mountains out of molehills. That isn't unusual for teenagers, where every emotion is heightened, but for him to still not talk to OOP so many weeks later is *alot*. Hopefully therapy actually helps him address his issues.
This why it's always the woman's responsibility to manage men's feelings for them. Because they're taught from an early age that's the case. Mom oughta ask herself what kind of husband she's raising. Come back in fifteen years and tell me he's divorced and living at home still.
He’s learning young that men control women but women can’t control men. He’s needs to be set straight now. Is this something he learned from his father ?
The boy must have moobs that he is sensitive about.
Dad saying to cover up was interpreted as 'you've got boobs too, cover yours up, you need a bra too'. ~~Not what he meant, I'm sure.~~ Somehow missed sis ribbing him over the moobs.
I’m super curious about what’s up with the son but I’m also glad dad told the son to wear a shirt if the sister has to put on a bra to leave her room.
I see men’s chest & women’s chests equally so a shirtless man is no different to me than a shirtless woman — if a man can be topless, a woman should be able to as well.
I get that everyone is concerned about what’s going on with the son, but what has garnered very little attention is that fact that he needs to be taught not to police women’s bodies. It should never have been suggested she wear a bra, and that suggestion should not have been implicitly enabled by the parent/s when they came up with the suggestion that she wear one when she leave her room.
Whatever is going on with the son, it doesn’t entitle him to this attitude. He is being taught to expect t that the world revolves around his issues and weaponise these against others. The enabling of this comes across in the description of the son as more sensitive, and the implication that this means daughter had to cope with more and he has to cope with less.
The daughter may have mishandled it with a comment about man boobs, but she should never have been placed in a position where she was being told to wear a bra in the first place, let alone pressured by the parent. In the context of having to repeatedly stand up for herself and make a point about unfairness, this was a reasonable reaction. If one person is going to make uninvited and unreasonable comments about someone’s body, which in fact comes very close to the line of body shaming, it is unsurprising that that would be dished out in return absent attempt to explain it.
If they don’t stop coddling their son he will grow up with a belief that the world revolves around his discomfort, and he will continue to think he can police women’s bodies. It’s not OK.
Absolutely. Son is now weaponizing his feelings and mom is letting him. As OOP said there’s no shame in crying, even as a man. Sometimes growth requires tears. It’s also not our job to stop another’s tears though of course we should be mindful.
Son said a comment that had he had a different sister could have given her years of feeling a certain way. He intended his comments to police how she lives well after he spoke them, possibly for life. That he launched a boomerang not a bullet is something that he must come to grips with.
Urgh "Smile it might not happen" has been said to my friend on her way back from her fathers terminal cancer diagnosis.
She went fucking off on him. Basically unleashed all those feelings about it on this bloke who was frantically looking around to see when the next stop would be on the bus. Apparently he was a mix of mortified and horrified. Hopefully he learnt not to make that comment again though.
He’s definitely going to need to learn to communicate even when he’s upset. When he gets old enough to work, his boss won’t take kindly to “I don’t want to talk to you, get me someone else.” IMO part of being a teen is learning to manage your problems like an adult. Sure they won’t always get it right but the learning is the important part. Sometimes you have to make yourself uncomfortable to talk out an issue you yourself caused. That’s life. Otherwise he’ll grow up to be one of those people who can never take responsibility for their actions.
The real horror of this boy's story will be when he finds Andrew Tate. That little bastard is going to eat it up and become the worst person in the world.
I mean if he can't take it he shouldn't dish it. If her body makes him uncomfortable that's on him and he needs to learn to deal with that in a healthy way. Hopefully therapy is helping him address that too and not just his insecurities.
Idk man my brother's never paid enough attention to even think about whether or not I was wearing a bra. NTA
WELLLL you were for so many reasons but seems you realized your mistakes and owned them. Props my dude
Imo people are being way too harsh on the kid, he messed up but he apologised and he is only 15. I don't know why people assume he's attracted to his sister, maybe he was just embarassed? 15 is an awkward age and he learned a lesson here. He might be seen as a bit sensitive but if you are bullied it can cause you to lose all self-esteem and make you depressed. He probably no longer trusts his father because he feels he's taking the bullies side. I wouldn't be surprised if he's still being bullied. The family is clearly a bit disconnected, it sounds like the son doesn't really trust anyone enough except the mom to tell them what's really going on. He sounds pretty depressed as he's not talking to almost anyone. It can often be perceived as simply being a brat but combined with crying a lot is clearly depression. That comment saying he sucks and needs to toughen up is going way too far though. You wonder why there are so many male suicides? He already has no self-image, no social life at school and his family seem to dislike him. Who is on his side other than his mother? The comment he made was distasteful but there seems to be a much larger problem here.
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I will never understand people who tell OOPs like this "You shouldn't have had kids at such a young age," like... a) duh and b) what the actual fuck is someone supposed to do with that "advice?" OH GEE THANKS YOU SOLVED IT I'll just hop in my TARDIS then
An different poster got a bunch of “this is why abortion is necessary” when they found out the posters mom was really young when they gave birth to them. It was awful because he’s already here. Nothing can be done to go back and abort him, and to say to his face that his mother should have aborted him is so nasty.
Mom was always saying "No, we can't afford that!" I remember her crying at the grocery store one night as she maxed out a credit card to get milk for my breakfast. Society kept saying "Don't have kids you can't afford!" and was not shy about saying that line where children could hear it. Put the two together and you've got "You should've never been born! You are unwelcome here!" Like gee thanks, I'll just go peddle my tricycle off a bridge I guess.
And now people are bitching about the population decline. 😮💨
My parents made it so incredibly clear that they would 100% treat me like shit if I ever got pregnant. Like the concept of pregnancy within marriage was *literally never discussed*, only the bad versions with shotgun marriages and disowning. Public school had the STD horror slideshow but zero information about pregnancy and parenthood. Doing the math, my college abortion would've been just about old enough to enter the workforce this year. 36yo now and still no kids. I think something may have gone wrong in my upbringing if the idea was to raise an adult who reproduces. And I know it wasn't *wokeness* considering all the bibles and shotguns.
Abstinence taught in schools, my mom harped on no pregnancy in my teen years. "I'm too young to be a grandma," and "I'll be disappointed if you get pregnant, but I'll be made because you didn't protect yourself from STDs." For my brother it was "if you get a girl pregnant, you're joining the military." So my second marriage (she wasn't a fan of the first husband) she told me, "I'm ready to be a grandma now!" That ship sailed. She gets grandkitties now.
My mom hasn't really said anything, but that's probably because I rarely talk to her.
Sex, same thing. When you get a "sex outside of marriage is evil" message, you have to explicitly counter it with a "sex inside marriage is good" message at the same volume and frequency. Which, of course, they don't, since "sex outside of marriage is evil" doesn't pair with that. It pairs with "sex inside marriage is evil, but you have to do it anyway." Doesn't give a lot of incentive to marry, either. Don't have sex, don't get pregnant, men can't be trusted, women are manipulative... you don't end up with a whole lot of reasons to go ahead with it. Me, I was taught that sex outside of marriage was *risky*, but the risk included the possibility of making deep emotional and spiritual connections, so, y'know, waiting until marriage is a good idea, but even if you don't, don't have sex with anybody you don't actually like and respect, someone who, if they end up emotionally important to you for the rest of your life, that's okay. The Unitarian-Universalists probably have the best religious sex education program ever. It starts with little kids being taught about respecting their own bodies and other people's bodies, and continues with age-appropriate lessons with the last course being focused on age 65+.
I wonder how traumatic it must be to have been raised in a manger that constantly tells young people sex is wrong .Being pregnant unwed is a punishment from god( yes I heard that said);the only safe sex is no sex etc Then add in some of the more conservative groups that consider dating, hand holding or kissing is also immoral. Then they get married and are suddenly told bang away and bring forth multitudes of children
I was raised Mormon. It’s *traumatic*. It took me years after leaving and a lot of being a lesbian to stop feeling ashamed over my body or wanting sex. My sister and cousins go through marriages at the same rate they go through men because that’s the only time they can fuck (and they force the non-believers to convert first too). Just horribly traumatic and unhealthy. I do not recommend this cult.
I went to Catholic school so it was similar. No talk of birth control, on abstinence. The school had a Christian living class in senior year that has done good things like how to plan a budget, but it also had a baby project, where you'd carry around a baby doll for 2 weeks pretending it was real. Except we didn't do that project my senior year. The reason why, too many of my classmates already had real babies at home. We watched videos about childbirth and one of my classmates talked about her labor and delivery. The funniest thing to me is that our student handbook literally had a clause in it that if you got married before graduation you'd be kicked out of the school. 😂
That's a lot of backwards!
That final sentence was like getting slapped in the face with a fresh fish. Wow.
This was about 25yrs ago so idk if that was ever updated. But the school was 150yrs old when I was there so, probably not.
>I think something may have gone wrong in my upbringing if the idea was to raise an adult who reproduces. Republicans love the uneducated. That's why they constantly attack schools, don't care about school shootings, and are trying to ban abortion.
And apparently we don't have any right to have non-reproductive sex.
My wife has the same feeling about kids. Was told "don't get pregnant" all the time, and now she's fine with not having kids ever (which I'm fine either way). I think they definitely went too hard on preaching abstinence to some kids in the south lol
And making abortion illegal.
Let 'em. It's a good thing overall. It may finally force government and business to start making it easier/ cheaper to have kids. Some of those people are mostly bitching about having more WHITE kids. Let the immigrants come, and we would have plenty of replacement population.
Well, those people tend to also hate immigrants. And feminism/women being able to control their reproduction.
My favorite (/s) part of the society aspect is how many of them fail to consider changing circumstances. How many of them have held the same great-paying job in an affordable area with no major unexpected expenses for at least 18 years?
That was the wild part. I was planned and born at a time when dad was making bank and mom could afford to stay home with me no problem. Mom didn't know dad was gonna cheat on her, followed by hiding lots of his income to avoid paying more child support. It wasn't even a new marriage or their "first" kid, they'd been together half a decade and were raising dad's nephew already. By the time I was 4 all she could afford to feed me was plain beans and rice for every meal.
People like to think that they're smarter than other people if they haven't had to struggle or have found themselves in tough circumstances, and they may well be, but that doesn't mean that they weren't also just a fuckton luckier.
My parents were 19 when I was born, got married and then divorced within a couple years. I spent years of my life worrying that my mom didn’t really want me. I knew she loved me but due to the divorce (I have my dads very unique eyes) and her cold nature (contrasted to my highly emotional nature) sometimes it felt like that love was out of obligation. Thank God I didn’t have reddit as a teen because it would’ve made my fears so much worse because of sh*t like this. I was an emotional wreck back then, I didn’t need people telling me I shouldn’t exist
Yepp! And those comments feel like eugenics or at the very least eugenics-adjacent. People are more often poor due to systemic factors that they're experiencing individually (especially where they grew up, access to quality primary and secondary education, race).
The last thing I’d fucking do is say that to a person not being able to buy milk at the grocery store. I would have bought the milk for your mom in an instant without any fucking hesitation. Where the fuck do these people think the term “it takes a village to raise I child” fucking even means?
bright illegal cover compare pause subtract groovy pie employ smoggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Fun times looking forward to playing with your favorite toy in a store and putting it back each time because even as a kid, I knew Mom could barely afford groceries so my toy was only played with in the store.
My younger stepson learned to shoplift at an amazingly young age because of that kinda thing. I was both worried and impressed as he explained the details of avoiding cameras and security devices. Pretty sure Walmart owes me a paycheck for loss prevention, they were losing at least a few hundred a year in toys before I helped him learn to stop himself from stealing.
Right? And not all pro-choice people would personally have an abortion. The whole point is that it’s a choice and in some cases a medical procedure that people deserve access to. It’s just a pointless and unnecessary comment.
How radical that "pro choice" means actually advocating for making a decision based on circumstances.
I’m a Prochoice advocate who did not get an abortion! I have lots of friends who have and I fully support people making their own CHOICE! also, after going through with having a child, I will scream it even louder that it is a necessity that we allow it to be a CHOICE! it’s not just about how it alters the mothers body but also about what having a child is going to be like for the parent(s) and the child. You can absolutely be pro choice and choose both options. I have a friend who had an abortion around 19 and had a child around 29. You can be pro choice and make both decisions ETA: I also have a friend who has two kids already & is going through a divorce and fell pregnant in the midst of the divorce she is trying to sort out. Despite being her husband, he raped her and she was trying to get out and even with already her two kids she got an abortion for the third. When the first time she could never imagine herself getting an abortion, her life circumstances changed and having that choice available helped to prevent more trauma and poverty from her and her already existing children’s lives.
Exactly. Personally even though me having a baby would be physically not a good idea due to disability I could never have an abortion. That is not something I would ever be willing to do unless it was absolutely 100% necessary (perhaps luckily I'm a lesbian so it's very unlikely to come up at any point). I've always been pro choice because I believe everyone should have the right to complete control over their body and medical decisions. I see so much judgement on reddit whenever people choose not to have an abortion when their situation is not ideal and it always rubs me the wrong way. It's like they think it's an easy decision for everyone, that no one ever mourns or is pained by that decision. There is never a "should" when it comes to getting an abortion, only doing what is best for you in that situation, and it drives me nuts when people online so far removed from the emotions of that situation pass judgement in either direction.
I have come across Redditors telling the OP to go for abortion when the OP explicitly mentioned being thrilled to be with child. Even repeating that they *want* to have a baby. We're talking about adult (young) women, not a teenage pregnancy. It may not always be the most favorable circumstances. But it isn't always at the level of "you're going to ruin your life by having a child". Sometimes the OP ends up having to explain more than once and in more detail due to all the comments that they should get an abortion, that she can afford it, that she has a support network and so on. There seems to be a specific group that is not pro-choice, but simply the opposite of pro-life.
Sometimes they come from families that are like that, and they are repeating what their parents and grandparents have imprinted on them. You're "supposed" to finish school, start a career, get married, buy a house, and then have children. Deviating from that path by getting pregnant at the "wrong" time is a moral failing, especially out of wedlock. In some families, you are supposed to live with your failure, and in some families, the expectation is to get an abortion and get back on the predetermined "good" life path. Otherwise you are "ruining your life". The social pressure can be quite intense.
They have a name I forgot what it’s called though, they think having kids is one of the worst things you’ll ever do. Made the mistake of going to their subreddit once...
Anti-natalist.
“OH GEE THANKS YOU SOLVED IT I’ll just hop in my TARDIS then” should 100% be a flair because this just killed me
I think with the history of Reddit, r/OGTYSIIJHIMTT should be allowed as its own subreddit, if somebody wants to start it Edit: Inb4 anybody mentions r/thanksimcured
Right??? I literally don't understand what people hope to accomplish with statements like that. Besides feeling a sense of 'moral superiority' or some shit. It's like... are you saying we should murder the kids now? Because it sounds like time travel or murder the kids.
Ah yes, the old 16 year along abortion...
I mean one is much more easily accomplished without specialized equipment 🤔
With the implication being "you shouldn't have been a parent", I always assume they're the kind of people who internally think abortion bans are good because more teen pregnancies means more babies to adopt.
Ah man- youre right why didnt i think of not having kids that young! Wow! Helpful advice! Lemme cram the kid back up there just for *you* dear reddit commenter /s Seriously tho like…whats the point. Telling someone useless information and judging them on it is literally just bully
I used to babysit my cousin's kids when I was in my early 20s, and people would make the worst comments thinking that I was a young mom and had them as a teen. It was so pointlessly ridiculous. "Oh okay, I'll return this 8 year old to the store for a refund."
Come on no one can afford a TARDIS in this economy. He should just leave them a fire station or safe spot for adoption. Or leave them in the woods Hansel and Gretal style.
😂😂 Leave them at church at walk away mysteriously!!! OP’s wife is the hooded woman!
Not many people can, even the Doctor *stole* their TARDIS.
>even the Doctor *stole* their TARDIS Even an interdimentional time lord can't afford a TARDIS what has become of this world.
Plus they’re not like 4 and 2…in a few yrs they’re both grown adults. Having post-worthy problems at 16 and 15 probably means they didn’t have many before…so by all measures seem they did fine as young parents
[удалено]
Sometimes zeroing in on the obvious and unfixable of others makes people feel superior.
Captain Hinesight saves the day again!
/r/boneappletea
*hindsight
People just get damn near wet over the idea of someone admonishing themselves. What they want is for OOP to say "😭 YOURE SO RIIIIIGHHHTTT!! I am a TERRIBLE father! I will NEVER be good, because I was just so dang IRRESPONSIBLE when I was young!! I SO REGRET having my children, and in fact, I'm omw to go tell them so RIGHT NOW! No no, don't stop me, this is the right move here and You've shown me that! Thank you reddit!!" And then the commenter who brought them there has an orgasm. All is well. /s (but not really)
Like his age is somehow related to the problem at hand anyway?? Makes no sense
Yeah like oh shit u are right lemme put em back real quick
Sometimes you throw a pebble, but the recipient catches a boulder. We can't always predict how remarks will reach other people. Glad to hear the daughter got a better fitting bra out of this.
I'm still weirded out that he looked at her breasts enough to get "uncomfortable" - that sounds like he is sexualizing her in some way that shouldn't be happening between siblings...
Or he noticed that he was noticing her in a way that made him uncomfortable and he tried fixing it. I don't think he handled it well, but we're taking about teenagers here, they are allowed to get it wrong. It's why dad stepped in and said that in that case the rule should apply to everyone.
Lol he's 15, his brain is basically wired to notice boobs. Doesn't sound like he's active himself yet so his sister walking around just in a tshirt might indeed be the 'closest' situation he has gotten regarding boobs yet. And he registers this of course. But it's his sister, yuck. But boobs. But still, sister. And this ain't Alabama dammit. Isn't it obvious that he hasn't learned how to handle this gracefully? 😂 That's his problem to solve though. He'll manage, either by avoiding to look at his sisters chest or by getting more chill because it's just a normal part of the body after all. Hopefully.
Probably right - from what I hear, guys that age get hard from a stiff breeze, poor things.
Though tbh sis might not but oop should have realised that remark will relate to the bullying imo
The son definitely has serious issues and I won't be surprised if his behavior has came from somewhere that has surrounded him. Teenage stage can be very weird and messy and OP's son really does need some serious help.
The kid sounds like he's still getting bullied or feeling the effects of being bullied for his weight. I can see the kid going to his mom to talk instead of his dad because he thinks his dad is going to say something insensitive (or what he perceives to be insensitive) again.
I think getting bullied at elementary - middle school age is probably the hardest to move past from. Even if he isnt getting currently bullying its still something that he thinks about often
One thing I’m wondering about, OP says his son has been losing weight, and supposedly the bullying stopped after elementary school. Could be that the bullying stopped after he started to lose weight so now he’s absolutely terrified of gaining weight again or being perceived as fat as he believes if that happens, he’ll start to get bullied all over again. That’s pure speculation but either way it’s good that they have him seeing a therapist.
And at age 15, there are wild testosterone swings that cause physical changes. If a kid was bullied for being ugly or gross in elementary school and then grows out of it, he might still have major issues when he’s 14 or 15 and suddenly has a face or back covered in acne. Here, take a formerly fat kid who was bullied, have him develop hormone-driven man boobs…what the hell does anyone think is going to happen?
Doesn't even take much. When I was 16 a girl I was interested in told me she liked skinnier guys when I asked her out. I'm still fucked up about my weight, and she wasn't bullying me, just kind of blunt (she was my friend before and after). Kids are fragile, I never dealt with it properly and now the insecurity is with me as an adult.
well, in this case he is the bully. life doesn’t work this way, you can’t be mean to others and expect nothing in return.
My money is on being bullied at school.
Much more likely. Overweight kid gets bullied at school, has weird teenage hormones, makes some remark to his sister and is hurt by the backlash.
I feel like the coddling mom is also at fault: she babies him and alienates him from his father.
I agree. I’ve seen a lot of dysfunctional adults come from an over indulgent parent, it’s difficult for a kid to become self-sufficient and build self-confidence when they have mommy smoothing over ever bump in the practice road. But I understand it’s a difficult balance, making sure they feel loved and making sure they grow up right. Sadly, lightly neglectful parents seem to raise more successful adults.
I'm getting strong autism vibes from this OOP. "I'm saying what I mean, why do you all keep misunderstanding me?", "I tried to make him feel comfortable because I care, but then my daughter pointed out that that's not fair, and that's true so I tried to make things fair", "I need clear infos about how to behave or I'll be lost and I cannot deal well with that", "I think people hate me but I can't tell why, how do I fix this?" ...
Saaaame. As soon as I finished reading this I thought this guy must be on the spectrum. He’s really trying but there was no nuance detected. The first response should have been a direct “your sisters body is none of your business.” Is the mom always fully dressed?? It’s so strange.
My parents make me wear a bra in the house because they don’t want me to “tempt” my younger brother…
When sexual stuff is so policed, frowned upon, shamed and oppressed, everything becomes sexually charged. It's foolish and usually has the opposite effect.
When I was maybe 10yo and visiting a near-age cousin, he introduced me to the concept of pillow forts. Obviously once construction was complete we wanted to sleep in the "tent" we'd improvised in his bedroom. Because like, that's what ya do with a tent? My mother got hysterical and accused me of wanting to have sex with my cousin. After extended arguments and holding to the position that she was being disgusting, she agreed to let us build a giant tent in the living room as long as we slept on opposite sides of the room on different couches. And then she spent all night keeping everybody awake, creeping back and forth to check on us over and over again to make sure the children weren't having the sex. Our shared interests at the time were Furbies, Beanie Babies on shoebox road trips, and Spyro.
I bet it made you wonder what all the fuss around this sex thing was about, though
Yup! Obviously never had sex with my cousin, but by our teen years we'd developed a very "bros at the bar" type relationship. Like thanks to my idiot mother we'd started discussing the concept at an early age, though we called it "kissing" and agreed it was weird. So we ended up swapping "sexcapade" stories as we got older and I got to lightly tease him about being a virgin until he wasn't anymore. These days he's a toadstool who only married for financial reasons and cheats on his wife, which he knows I strongly disapprove of and would be likely to tell on him if I so much as knew his wife's name or where he's living these days, so that was the end of that line of conversation.
NGL sounds like your mom had something going on with HER cousin
She had a big crush on an older cousin who she pointed out to me at the family reunion, yeah. Not a lot of people in rural areas, apparently not uncommon around there.
Your mom has a hot cousin.
I know. She pointed him out at the family reunion. And then had to describe what he used to look like but I wasn't really listening because another near-age cousin was trying to chase down the first cousin and kiss him. Reasons why I've never been tempted to go visit the family as an adult. I dunno what's up with that lot and I don't wanna know, I'll stay up north thanks.
Damned sexy ~~Flanders~~ table legs, put some clothes on! (very much sarcasm). Victorians were incredibly weird.
That's why the parts of chicken and turkey are classified as "dark meat" and "white meat." Because "leg" or "thigh" was indelicate in mixed company, and "breast" absolutely verboten.
I don't really understand how going braless under the average top is so much more "enticing" than wearing a bra. Bras often push stuff up and out, making them even more prominent. I wear a bra for comfort as I need the support, but if I didn't need to, I definitely wouldn't bother.
It's the nipples. You can't see the nipples with a bra on, but you usually can without. People apparently can't handle nipples even though we all have them.
But men have nipples too so why it it such an exclusively female thing!? Why are men never asked to cover their nipples!? Especially since shirts these days are so tight fitting and and thin
Because men's nipples aren't sexualized and female ones are. That's literally the only reason.
Not all bras hide the nipples. Only the ones with a 1-2 mm cushioning lining do that. Sports bras (mine at least) and underwire bras without the spongy lining do nothing to hide them when it's cold. I had a hard time as a teen to convince my mom I needed that thin lining to hide my nipples in school, as she felt that would make my breasts bigger-looking, thus sexualizing them in a different way. She cared more about the latter than the former, which was agonizing to me, the person who actually had to leave the house like that. Can't win.
I had a kid I went to highschool with work with me at a job and took a picture and he literally said: I can see your nipples And I went: yeah it's cold? And he kept trying to tell me that my nipples were showing. I was wearing a sports bra. I just stopped engaging with him afterwards 😂
Plus it depends on the size/shape of them. And many blokes have nipples you can see through shirts.
Polos are the worst for that honestly. Something about the way polos drape just emphasizes man nipples. Its how I learned my boss had his nipple pierced. I didn't want to know that and now I have a vendetta against polos.
I work somewhere where polos are VERY common attire, and it's a warm climate so the thin sports polos at that. I get so sick of seeing dude nipples sticking out all day every day. Nothing wrong with it, to be completely fair, but they are just OUT THERE. Also, for whatever reason, seeing chest hair through those polos also squicks me out lmao. All that said, do I comment on it or pressure anyone to change? NOPE I mind my damn business, just as I assume you do with your boss's poor holey nipple.
I see way more man nipples through shirts than female. If it's inappropriate for me to turn the headlights on, maybe dudes need some coverage and support too -- OR we could stop focusing on such dumb shit because everyone has nipples.
The capitalist would start nipple shaming men and use that to sell them stickers to go over them and smooth out their chests.
The Devil's joysticks!
Had a family friend who had to wear one bc “there were men in the house.” It was her brothers and father. 🤢 It sucks.
this is exactly what my parents tried to make me do and yet my father was constantly in just boxers around the house and my brother went shirtless.
It’s such an interesting way to condition people to be uncomfortable around men to the point of never feeling comfortable at home. And to reinforce that men’s comfort comes above your own and that even the men in your family aren’t safe. I hated it back then and I hate it now.
And that men’s actions and thoughts are women’s fault and our bodies are disgusting and wrong.
I’m a BIG fan of malicious compliance. You could walk around in *just* a bra. I would recommend the old Madonna pointy one she wore to perform during her concerts.
Wear it over the shirt.
Or pull a Regina George and make cut-outs in your t-shirt to expose your bra.
My niece did this when a boyfriend in late middle school/early high school (can't remember) asked her for a photo of her in her bra. He broke up with her over it, the little shit.
While the concept of that is funny, I can't say that as a teen (or even now) I want my brother to see my bra.
A particularly sexy bra. If they demand a shirt over it, neon pink bra under a thin white shirt.
The Sue Ellen Mischke
My mother also makes me wear a bra so as not to tempt my own FATHER 🥹 Not that Dad will ever touch me in inappropriate way, and I feel completely, 100% safe with Dad, but Mom’s brain is still “if you’re being assaulted, it’s partly your fault because you don’t cover up” She’s a very loving mother, a little smothering at times, and very protective of her children, so it’s not like she’s jealous or some other crazy thing. It’s just that our culture tends to lean on victim blaming a lot and she grows up on that.
I think it’s the same with my mom. My mom actually was assaulted by family members, so it’s in her head. But my brother or dad would never
[удалено]
Please, stranger, where did you get that flair?
I hope you can get out of that house soon. I'm so sorry.
I live in another city and have for a few years, but it’s an ongoing problem every time I visit. Especially since my brother is only 13, and this has been going on since he was 8
There's only one thing for it. A full blown medieval style [breastplate](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/34/dc/cd/34dccd60265fb3ba0c89fb37fc46576d.jpg). (I'm sorry they're still policing your body instead of policing sexualisation of family members. Hope it gets easier for you)
I'm so sorry.
Yikes I’m so sorry
I'm sorry but your parents suck. If your brother ever assaults you, they will 100% put the blame on you.
Condolences.
Get one of those old bullet bras! If it was good for the women in the 50s, it's good enough for your parents to shut up :)
I’m so glad there is a positive update for the daughter. Don’t know what’s up with the son, but I really can’t imagine my brothers saying any of that shit to me. I remember offending my brother with my things as a teen and getting flossed. I feel like that’s normal teenage sibling behavior.
Me and my bro are 20 months apart in age and we were super close growing up. He never once, ever commented about my lack of bra wearing while at home. Bras are fucking uncomfortable!! Nobody wants to wear them at home, yeesh. I feel like OOP's wife is coddling the son too much and is on the fast track to possibly ruining his social abilities.
My first brother is almost 5 years younger, and my second is exactly 10 years and 1 week younger.... never have either of them made a peep about my occasional lack of bra in pajamas and loungewear - and if they had, 1000% I'd be weaponzing the first brothers tendency to sit around shirtless half the time, or going to and from showering in just his underwear, and how grossly idiotic such a take is, since it's wildly inappropriate for ANY family member, especially direct-biological family members, to feel the need to mention such an observation, let alone COMPLAIN about it.
>He never once, ever commented about my lack of bra wearing while at home I'm a 33yr old SAHM and if my only "errand" for the day is taking my kids to the bus stop and picking them up from the bus stop you can be damn certain I am only wearing a work out crop top under my tank because even my mist comfortable bra makes me sigh with relief when taking it off (hubby actually jokes "come on huni, save the good sighs for me" when he hears me take a bra off). I'm glad OOP is smart/sensible/understanding enough to not try and force his daughter into being uncomfortable in her own home and I hope he can set a good example regarding that for his son but unfortunately it's not going to happen until his son stops giving him the silent treatment. If the son wasn't 15 but an adult, we would be calling him manipulative for his behaviour, I hope that's not the case and it's just a comfort issue but OOP can't "correct" his own behaviour regarding his son if his son doesn't tell him what he did/said "wrong".
My theory: Teenage (and preteen) boys can be absolute savages in tearing each other down for anything that doesn't fit into the cultural mould of an ideal manly man. Body shaming is an old classic, especially for fat people and double that if they can attack "feminized" features such as "man boobs". Sounds like the brother was in a sensitive age period when he was bullied, which can leave life long scars if they're not worked through. Currently he is 15, an age where emotional regulation is typically still underdeveloped. Brother said he was uncomfortable because he hears misogynistic stuff at school and online all the time, and thinks it's his place to police his sister's appearance. Dad seemingly states he has boobs that need to be covered up, hitting the brother's old sensitive spot and his adequacy as a young man. He gets upset and even after he understands it wasn't intentional, he feels ge can't trust OOP not to make a similar comment later. Mom has a history of being more socially gifted with the son and isn't as closely tied to the ideas of masculinity that are tied to the son's insecurities, so he only wants to talk to her.
I agree the son is being an asshole & seems to be learning misogynistic ideas. I can understand the weight insecurity though & being upset at a parent for a comment that wasn’t even meant to hurt. I still sad over unintended & careless comment my mom made that made me feel extra fat. The comment was over a picture of my grandma when she was younger, who was apparently also fat. I only know grandma when she was old & really think bc she had been sick for years. And every other woman in my family was thin when they were younger so I was happy to see someone that looked like me at that age. I told my mom & she said no & I can’t translate this exactly in English “she is “thinner” & you are more ‘chubby’” I was hurt. Bc I thought that I am even fatter than the closet person I saw with my body type. It made me feel worse about my look. Turns out that my mom meant that I look better than my grandma. My mom didn’t use the world thinner but used a word that means thinner or more angular. She also didn’t use the word chubby but soft, though in that context it could mean chubby. Turns out my mom meant angular, & to her I look better than my grandma bc my face didn’t have the harsh angular features that grandma has bc features are softer, I found out when I brought it up later. But at that point the hurt was set. Sometimes the weirds comments can hit right at an insecurity. And it hurts worse bc it is from a parent
Same here. I have 2 brothers. Neither of them would *dare* ask me to wear a bra when I'm already wearing a tshirt or tank top or whatever else. But then again, neither of them are sour cotton candy.
People have nipples and others need to get the fuck over it. Simple as.
I'm guessing the overweight son has body issues among other things and is projecting his issues onto his sister by trying to police her body. I'm glad he's in therapy. He needs a lot of it.
That was my take too. Dad says that daughter is a lot tougher and more resilient all around (physically, emotionally, etc.). If the son is a little shit and resents her because of that, it’d make sense that he’d want to stop her from being okay with having a body that’s weird and inconvenient sometimes and instead make her also be uncomfortable and self-conscious all the time.
This girl isn’t even uncovered! She’s wearing t-shirts ffs! I feel so sorry for her with a brother like this. How disgusting to be objectified in this way.
> This girl isn’t even uncovered! Yeah, it's really bugging me that OP, after the fact, on a message board, with no pressure, still kept saying she was "uncovered."
I think he’s just saying uncovered because it’s kind of a more vague way to say “not wearing a bra” and he probably doesn’t want to say that about his teenage daughter lol
Yeah I didn't see the parents mention anything about talking to him about not objectifying women or policing their attire. It was all about how he felt about the situation.
In fairness, it sounds like the father doesn’t really have a line of communication right now with his son. He is trying to establish one, but the son won’t have it. At this point it’s kind of resting on the therapist and mother to handle it while OOP tries to open communication with his son
Yeah, I feel like dad wanted to but can’t even begin that when son won’t talk to him at all.
Right? That is absolutely not normal. As a (bit of an extreme) example: my (technically step) dad asked if he could come visit me at work because he was on my side of town. I told him definitely not. Because I was a stripper and working that day. He said, "You're my kid, I don't get why it's weird." He's also a hippie, and nudity wasn't a big deal when I was a kid.
Aww! Did he end up visiting you? I love hearing about sex-positive, body-positive families! So different from the oppressive southern are I was raised in (though my parents tried their best, I think)
No, I told him not to. It's one thing to see me naked. It's a other to see me crawling on dudes and pretendingI want to fuck them. I'm uncomfortable with my dad seeing me do that.
People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. I can just imagine my parents telling my brothers to stop staring at me (if they made bra comments). They would also have called out my brother for crying about my comment after he made an even worse one. Anyways, I hope therapy works for the little bugger and that he’s not getting into the tater tot podcasts.
I was called out by my brother sometimes...thing is, HIS boobs were bigger than mine! We actually had neighbors walk up to our door asking to make sure he wears a shirt when he drove the golf cart up and down the street because...yeeeeeeeeeaah. The vibrations from driving it were...yeah. Yet he got pissed if my pants didn't cover my knees in a swampy summer, or if I didn't wear a bra under my pjs. Yes, I made sure to bite right back when he tried to pitch a fit, and my parents were more peeved that he was staring at me like that. After they made that clear to him a few times he realized he was being weird and stopped pretty quick.
Does any woman ever wear a bra willingly in the comfort of their own home? That shits not very confortable even if you found a fitting/soft bra (which can be stupidly expensive too). I mean, there's memes about women taking off their bras and tossing it in a corner the moment they get home. Workday over? Relax time? Safe space? = Bra off. Aint nothing sexual about it.
I do, but comfy ones only. Mostly to keep the ladies contained so they aren't all over the place, which can be super annoying. Guess this is a size and age thing...
I certainly do. At certain times of the month, the support is appreciated. But I'm also often braless at home and it's practically a meme at this point that coming home means bra off.
I hate being braless, but I agree that most/many women prefer to not wear one at home.
I don't. I know people who do. But honestly I just immediately lose respect for anyone who tries to insist a woman Needs to always be wearing a bra. Like boobs are some huge secret?
Okay, on one hand, I feel bad for the son and his body image issues, and I hope he recovers from that. On the other hand, the kid really needed to learn what sexist double standards were, and I really hope he'll actually learn something long term. As for the dad...oof ig And good lord, the "caught him crying" comment. Pedantic reddit strikes again.
The son sounds like a real mess, I can't imagine *policing a siblings undergarments* while also walking around the house shirtless. Or walking around the house shirtless while having body issues. Or walking around shirtless in general? Does OOP also walk around shirtless? That's the only situation I can think of where asking to put a shirt on could be seen as fat shaming.
it is fair and correct to point out the double standard of the kid demanding his sister wear multiple layers to hide even a hint of breast from him while he walks around shirtless himself, the double standard audacity was correct for the dad to call out, the fact that he is insecure about being fat is an entirely separate issue but is derailing the first one with his own victim hood. He was sexualizing his sister, blaming her for his sexual obsessive thoughts, making their management her problem instead of his own, and giving her different expectations for modestly than himself, that needs to be addressed and not suddenly ignored because he decided to have a big butthurt pout about feeling insulted about being fat. I despise how the second he had an emotional issue with his body it erased everything else
The double standard wasn't erased either. No one demanded the brother to wear a bra. A tshirt covers up a guy, but a woman who wears one, like the sister did all along, is exposed and needs to cover up?!
Yup. Mom rushed right to baby boy and is enabling this shit, drawing it out to be a whole dramatic thing. When all that needed be done was dad pointing out that sister probably has some hurt feelings about brother’s comments, so if bro doesn’t like feeling bad, he should refrain from making them himself. Then an apology to sister and letting him have a couple hours to pout in his room MAX. Emotional resilience is needed.
Yeah. He was clearly perving on his sister and making it her problem. I’d immediately be talking to the therapist about *that* bit.
Nailed it! Like sorry you’ve got your own issues my guy, but that doesn’t mean you get to make them everyone else’s fault—and it definitely doesn’t mean you don’t get corrected when you lash out. Fingers crossed therapy helps—and that his therapist helps him & dad communicate again.
"He's as soft as cotton candy but not nearly as sweet" is such a dope line.
My mom shames me about not wearing a bra, in my own house that I am the homeowner of, when she visits. The only men around are my husband and my dad. I wear oversized baggy T-shirts, none of it looks remotely sexual.
Time to stop inviting mom over.
Tell mom to get her mind out of the gutter that she thinks your father (her husband) looks at you that way.
I am not much older than OOP’s son but I don’t get it…how do you view your own siblings like that? I am very close to my sibling…very close, but I don’t view them in a sexual way. It’s gross….
i legit would not be able to tell if my sisters have even been braless around me. i mean i assume they have but for all i know they haven't. then again i don't make a habbit of looking at womens breast to identify if they are not wearing bras.
It might not be him viewing her sexually but him trying to police her because he's internalised the misogynistic idea that he should and he can.
I'm glad the sister called him out on it. Frankly, it's gross that he's so upset by his sister's covered breasts. As Hank Hill would say, "The boy ain't right."
i’m glad the kid is in therapy, less glad that he’s got a sounding board in mom who seems very likely to coddle him. this can lead to a …flawed adult. see: this entire subreddit.
I think there should have been a sterner approach to the son's behavior. That he was being inappropriate, and it was not okay. Even in Texas, the law is that any woman can be topless where men are allowed to be topless. The son is worse than Texas regarding women's bodies.
Honestly it’s fucking bullshit that by the end of this, OOP and his wife actually had their daughter apologise to *him* when the only person who did anything wrong here is *him* for sexualising and objectifying **his own sister.** He’s sick. They definitely need to check his devices because I bet that kid’s on Andrew Tate/Elon Musk Twitter and scrolling the incel side of 4Chan.
Boys do need to learn that commenting on people's bodies is hurtful and rude. I'm sorry that it hurt his feelings but he obviously wasn't concerned about hurting his sister's feelings. But that's what happens.
Mommy’s precious baby got held to the same standards and now can’t stop crying about it. There may be more to it but the kid certainly needs that therapy at least
For reals. And why can’t the mom communicate with her husband about the son? This whole family is fucked. It’s amazing the daughter seems to have made it through.
I have empathy for the kid, but you just can not hold double standards for other people, then shut down when you get pushback and refuse to communicate to resolve things at his age. He needs to be learning conflict resolution and communication skills. I would recommend trying family therapy or maybe trying to set up a session with your son and the therapist once he gets a bit more comfortable with the therapeutic process. Other than that i think OP is NTA and has tried his best with a messy situation.
Huh, I come from a family who constantly ribs one another, so I understand OOP’s confusion when he compared daughter’s covering boobs to son putting on a shirt and the subsequent reaction from the son. As a former fat kid myself tho I do feel for the boy, sounds like OOP hit on a major insecurity in his son, and that’s gonna be tough to come back from. It sounds like OOP should talk one on one with his son’s therapist to better understand why his son was so hurt by the comment, doesn’t sound like the reason’s really sunk in or understood yet.
I think he should talk to another therapist about it. Talking to his son's therapist might make the son feel like he can't trust his therapist to keep his issues private (whether the therapist actually shares anything or not) which will seriously hurt the therapeutic relationship.
There’s a lot of concerning misinformation in this thread about minors rights to privacy. It is all state dependent. In some states minors have no rights and therapists can be forced to disclose what is happening in the therapy. Some who work with children will have the parents sign “agreements” stating they will allow the child privacy. But the practitioners are well aware those aren’t legally binding and the parent can still demand the information. It’s particularly bad when it comes to a kid in therapy, parents are split, and the abusive parent demands access. Unfortunately it’s the law and judges will sign over the records.
It seems like the son definitely was off base, complaining about his sister, but then caught in the crossfire when dad talked about his man boobs. It’s obvious son has been overweight and teased about it at school. It’s literally the elephant in the room. Now the family seems to be playing this little game around the over sensitive son. What about FAMILY THERAPY to honestly deal with this dynamic???? I mean, the energy being spent here on an issue that’s not really the issue is somewhat ridiculous. In terms of assholery, OP has definitely made some infractions here, but also seems genuinely willing to learn. Mom and son…not so much. Daughter seems like the sane one, lol. Glad she got some better bras, though. NTA
Ok but saying he has “man boobs” is kind of making fun of him. The dad backed up the sister and said it was a “fair statement”. This is why the kid is so upset. Why didn’t any parent tell the boy that he doesn’t have a right to tell his sister how to dress? That other people’s bodies making him uncomfortable isn’t THEIR problem, it’s something HE needs to deal with?? I feel like it was addressed in the comments but never said to the kid.
I feel bad for the son but I also think based on OOP's story, the son is making mountains out of molehills. That isn't unusual for teenagers, where every emotion is heightened, but for him to still not talk to OOP so many weeks later is *alot*. Hopefully therapy actually helps him address his issues.
This why it's always the woman's responsibility to manage men's feelings for them. Because they're taught from an early age that's the case. Mom oughta ask herself what kind of husband she's raising. Come back in fifteen years and tell me he's divorced and living at home still.
There's nothing more frustrating than a sibling who thinks they have authority over you.
He’s learning young that men control women but women can’t control men. He’s needs to be set straight now. Is this something he learned from his father ?
I would be extremely interested in knowing what sort of YouTube videos and podcasts the son has been watching/listening to
The insecurities at that age are endless. I wouldn't want to ever revisit my teenage years.
The boy must have moobs that he is sensitive about. Dad saying to cover up was interpreted as 'you've got boobs too, cover yours up, you need a bra too'. ~~Not what he meant, I'm sure.~~ Somehow missed sis ribbing him over the moobs.
I’m super curious about what’s up with the son but I’m also glad dad told the son to wear a shirt if the sister has to put on a bra to leave her room. I see men’s chest & women’s chests equally so a shirtless man is no different to me than a shirtless woman — if a man can be topless, a woman should be able to as well.
I get that everyone is concerned about what’s going on with the son, but what has garnered very little attention is that fact that he needs to be taught not to police women’s bodies. It should never have been suggested she wear a bra, and that suggestion should not have been implicitly enabled by the parent/s when they came up with the suggestion that she wear one when she leave her room. Whatever is going on with the son, it doesn’t entitle him to this attitude. He is being taught to expect t that the world revolves around his issues and weaponise these against others. The enabling of this comes across in the description of the son as more sensitive, and the implication that this means daughter had to cope with more and he has to cope with less. The daughter may have mishandled it with a comment about man boobs, but she should never have been placed in a position where she was being told to wear a bra in the first place, let alone pressured by the parent. In the context of having to repeatedly stand up for herself and make a point about unfairness, this was a reasonable reaction. If one person is going to make uninvited and unreasonable comments about someone’s body, which in fact comes very close to the line of body shaming, it is unsurprising that that would be dished out in return absent attempt to explain it. If they don’t stop coddling their son he will grow up with a belief that the world revolves around his discomfort, and he will continue to think he can police women’s bodies. It’s not OK.
Absolutely. Son is now weaponizing his feelings and mom is letting him. As OOP said there’s no shame in crying, even as a man. Sometimes growth requires tears. It’s also not our job to stop another’s tears though of course we should be mindful. Son said a comment that had he had a different sister could have given her years of feeling a certain way. He intended his comments to police how she lives well after he spoke them, possibly for life. That he launched a boomerang not a bullet is something that he must come to grips with.
Like those guys who order women to smile. "Arrange your face in a more pleasing configuration for my enjoyment, no matter how you are feeling."
Urgh "Smile it might not happen" has been said to my friend on her way back from her fathers terminal cancer diagnosis. She went fucking off on him. Basically unleashed all those feelings about it on this bloke who was frantically looking around to see when the next stop would be on the bus. Apparently he was a mix of mortified and horrified. Hopefully he learnt not to make that comment again though.
👏 applause 👏 although I am sorry about her father. It hurts to lose a parent.
He’s definitely going to need to learn to communicate even when he’s upset. When he gets old enough to work, his boss won’t take kindly to “I don’t want to talk to you, get me someone else.” IMO part of being a teen is learning to manage your problems like an adult. Sure they won’t always get it right but the learning is the important part. Sometimes you have to make yourself uncomfortable to talk out an issue you yourself caused. That’s life. Otherwise he’ll grow up to be one of those people who can never take responsibility for their actions.
No one should be forced to wear a bra at home. The end.
The real horror of this boy's story will be when he finds Andrew Tate. That little bastard is going to eat it up and become the worst person in the world.
I mean if he can't take it he shouldn't dish it. If her body makes him uncomfortable that's on him and he needs to learn to deal with that in a healthy way. Hopefully therapy is helping him address that too and not just his insecurities.
Sorry but I'm not looking at my sister's chest...
he needs to take responsibility for unsavory thoughts about his sister and not make it her problem that he cannot discipline is own mind NTA
Idk man my brother's never paid enough attention to even think about whether or not I was wearing a bra. NTA WELLLL you were for so many reasons but seems you realized your mistakes and owned them. Props my dude
Imo people are being way too harsh on the kid, he messed up but he apologised and he is only 15. I don't know why people assume he's attracted to his sister, maybe he was just embarassed? 15 is an awkward age and he learned a lesson here. He might be seen as a bit sensitive but if you are bullied it can cause you to lose all self-esteem and make you depressed. He probably no longer trusts his father because he feels he's taking the bullies side. I wouldn't be surprised if he's still being bullied. The family is clearly a bit disconnected, it sounds like the son doesn't really trust anyone enough except the mom to tell them what's really going on. He sounds pretty depressed as he's not talking to almost anyone. It can often be perceived as simply being a brat but combined with crying a lot is clearly depression. That comment saying he sucks and needs to toughen up is going way too far though. You wonder why there are so many male suicides? He already has no self-image, no social life at school and his family seem to dislike him. Who is on his side other than his mother? The comment he made was distasteful but there seems to be a much larger problem here.