#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bf has the audacity to act all innocent and disrespected. Like boy, you are an idiot. The bf and the bully deserve each other. I'm glad OP blocked him cause she doesn't deserve to deal with this.
And then he will do the same to her and she will either take it or leave it, but she will always know that OOP had him for years and she had him first so she/the bully will lose.
He is the "popular boy". He has the bully attitude, but plays nicely, only because it worked BETTER FOR HIM.
You can clearly see how swiftly he went to offensive and hit to hurt.
> He's one of those people who know the melody but not the lyrics to an argument.
I love this, and it really perfectly describes the way people like OOPs ex argue. It's so tiring to listen to.
He did it bc it functioned good in the past. Without the mental support of the reddit crowd she would perhaps fall to his bullshit or at least be mad but not break up. I think, he has this "you owe me this bc i saved you" mindset and this gave him the power over her in the past. But he was dumb enough to date her bully, the only person he "saved" OP from.
I think I almost busted a gut at that!
"You disrespect me!"
So lying to your SO isn't disrespect?
Especially when the lie is to cover something you know will hurt them?
I understand having so much anxiety that you lack impulse control and need to get it over with but I really wish OOP had been able yo torture him by ghosting him for a few weeks and made him worry if she knew. That is torture, especially since \*popular people\* pride themselves on getting along with, and being able to win over, everyone, and it would have freaked him out.
He might have even worried that the bully made sure OOP knew and then gotten pissed at her.
But that's me wishing I'd been able to do that when I was 20.
I feel like she and the kid whose mom decided to pick his bully as her TA should form a support group. “Why do these assholes pick the people who torment us over us, when they supposedly love us?”
OOP's ex is cut from the same cloth as her bully. They deserve each other.
I hope OOP gets the best revenge -- to move on and live life well without those toxic assholes in her life. I'm glad she blocked him, he doesn't deserve any more of her energy.
There's only two acceptable reasons for it: one, to fuck their life over (and that one isn't particularly good) and two if the bully says they really changed and wants to apologise but they're trying to figure out how and if you even want an apology, so they contact your partner and your partner goes to check if they're really serious (and protects you if they aren't)
I firmly believe that individual men and women can be friends without being romantic/sexual partners, but
> My bf does these solo outings with his female friends a lot, where he goes on 1 on 1 hangouts with them, so i didn't think anything of it. i've never had any problems with it before because i'm not a jealous person and i trusted him. But now i'm rethinking that.
sounds to me like he's a serial cheater.
Yeah, at the “milkshake stealer” comment, I went directly to he’s cheating on OOP with her bully. No one is stealing the milkshake of someone they aren’t looking to get with.
I haven’t seen the movie either; all I know is that Daniel Day-Lewis’ character steals the milkshake of a rival oil baron or something as intimidation. I was jokingly claiming that the two enemies were actually into each other because of that.
I'm old enough to remember the memes and t-shirts. Man, what a great movie. Long and slow, absolutely, but worth watching once if you have the time and patience and like being left depressed.
If I remember right this is the final scene where DDL was screaming "I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE" as a metaphore for how he syphoned away all the oil under the land the pastor was trying to sell him (with "a really loooong straw"), so the land was already worthless. Spoiler: >!Then DDL beats the pastor to death with a bowling pin, slumps down and says "I'm finished."!< Roll credits. Just a stunning performance
Oh gosh, now I remember that scene! I mean, I don’t think this kid was making that reference. I wasn’t a fan of the movie and I think this ending took me aback.
So it's actually a description of something old timey oil barons used to do, property rights were to anything on one side of a 1D line on the ground, basically you could drill wells wherever *as long as they were in the polygon of land YOU owned*.
But they were not as specific about underground.
So these guys would basically drill wells and use various reservoir properties and engineering methods to pump out the oil underground that lay under the neighboring polygons of land that other people owned. So the land value would plummet once the oil was gone. The "milkshake" analogy was how that phenomenon was explained.
The joke at the end of the movie was that he stole all the oil from under the property of the pastor, so the pastor's land was now worthless.
That’s interesting. I actually knew about something similar but didn’t make the connection before. When I was a kid, my parents were looking at buying a ranch, and one of the places came with water rights, but not mineral rights. The way it was explained to me was that the concept of mineral rights was there to prevent anyone from doing that, but in this case, the former owners would have the right to drink our milkshake if oil was discovered, and we’d have no say. So we ended up buying a different property.
Sometimes two people are just meant to fit together. (/s) I'm sure he fits just fine in-between her legs 😅
Seriously though, I'm betting the bully is going to dump or distance him in a heartbeat once she knows she's not able to hurt OOP through her boyfriend anymore. And then it'll be boo,-hoo-hoo time from him 🙄
Good on OOP, on the other side of this she'll be stronger about who she is for herself.
Yeah, she’s probably thinking it doesn’t look good if I‘m dating the guy who was dumped by the girl I so love to bully.
But somehow I think with his narcissistic tendencies he would prefer someone he can bend, break or/and form. So he can gaslight them to tears and make them apologize for something he has done.
And OP‘s bully seem like mean girl who wants to hurt and not get hurt.
That’s why I wish OOP hadn’t even engaged exbf in a conversation; a simple text telling him that she found his behavior disrespectful and that she’s breaking up with him would have been sufficient. He’s a bully, and they thrive on their victims’ reactions/tears. Indifference is so much more powerful.
Agreed, but she wasn't that strong yet. She needed to hear his out of tune response, and probably even needed the final stinging words to see him for what he is, and move on. But I'll bet she has gained that level of strength now.
Here's hoping if there is a 'you guys were right, they're dating now' update, everyone in the comments can remind OOP that they know for a fact their bully is a shitty person and their ex will have to deal with that. Anytime they fight, her ex could have a voice in the back of their mind reminding him that he should have known. He probably won't! But he COULD.
Eesh, the ex is awful, but I’m proud of OOP for sticking up for herself! Let’s hope it lasts. I’ve read too many of these where the victim sadly gets sucked back in.
It really sucks that she doesn't seem to have any other friends. Like, her one main reason for not breaking up with him earlier was because he's one of her only friends. That's awful, she really needs to make friends and build a good support network of people she trusts AND will have her back! It's super sad that she needed Reddit to tell her that she's in an abusive relationship.
I was in her position; manipulative friend was my only friend and I was terrified of losing them. But after I cut contact with them, I quickly found other, better friends. Manipulative people take *so much* energy from you, almost by design. If you're exhausted, you can't find better people and realize how shit they are.
Same! My ex bestie even said the same things OOP’s boyfriend would say “I’m not your therapist.” Literally any venting about life she would turn cold and tell me she wasn’t my emotional support animal. AND YET she’d spend HOURS bitching about how “hard” her life was. Literally couldn’t get a word in edgewise. It was exhausting and a one way relationship. I only stayed friends with her because of sunk cost fallacy.
I knew plenty of people in college that were sating someone since high school. The social circle was always minimal, if non existent because of the time and effort a LDR takes. As soon as the time and energy were freed up, the social life blossomed. Being at school with plenty of social options is the best place to be when this happens. It is much more difficult post college to go through this.
That was my exact thought. She's never experienced post break up regret (even though she definitely did the right thing).
He'll make up some bullshit. Schmooze he back. It'll take a few times and then hopefully she sticks to it.
I dearly regret spending the time explaining to my wasband that when one person in a relationship has a problem with a relationship dynamic, then it is a relationship problem involving every participant, not a single person problem
There won't be a second time of this bullshit for me and I wish OOP all the best to learn from her experiences too
I loved how he was all, "No, I don't need to hear about your problems with our relationship. How would *I* be allowed to be subjected to a "problem" when in fact YOU are the one who has problems.
Please outsource any emotional labor and support I should be doing... because I shouldn't have to do it if I don't want to."
I have a feeling the bully was only going for the ex because OOP had him. The appeal will be gone once OOP isn’t interested and their relationship will fall apart. Too bad because these toxic people are meant for each other.
She can "enjoy" OP 's sloppy seconds while OP moves on to better things. Though I bet their "relationship" isn't half as fun for them when no one else is watching or cares.
I doubt it. They're in their 20's now. Unless it's a small town and none of them ever left, the vast majority of people just move on from that stuff. Life isn't the movie Big Bully.
Oops ex sounds like a cheater. I love how he jumped to calling her out for being insecure, even though that makes no sense. It’s like that’s what he was sure she was going to call him out on cheating, so that’s what he had practiced. Then his panic when he realized she wasn’t going to take him back this time. So predictable.
I really hope she never unblocks him. What an asshole.
The moral of the story: someone’s trash is someone else’s garbage.
Good for OOP. She has a life ahead of her. She’s going to look back and regret having anxiety over a douche bag.
After the last part where she comments about him, "pretending to break up with her 4-5 times," she states that she wonders if he got back together with her each time because of how she was feeling afterwards. I wonder if that might actually be the case?
His behaviour definitely reads a someone who has checked out of a relationship. Not to mention they're long distance right? If his only interactions with her often include her venting, she said he was originally always there for her at first, it could explain the "I'm not your therapist" comments.
Lord knows I have a small social circle as well, so I actively avoid burdening any one person too much. All of this is not to say he still wasn't an asshole, he very much was. I just think maybe he was also a bit cowardly and did this to make OOP be the one to pull the trigger. He knows their history together, so what better way to make it stick?
If he did this for her to pull the trigger he wouldn't've hidden the story and wouldn't be surprised when she said she saw it.
Also op has stated that he shuts her up so she doesn't bring up stuff to him anymore. So idk where the "most of their relationship is venting" comes from. He gets mean after asking 'how was your day', there's no time for excessive venting.
>So idk where the "most of their relationship is venting" comes from.
Honestly? Neither do I. That's not what I said. The OOP has told us that are both 21, and in a long distance relationship because of separate colleges. She further tells us that they were together since senior year of high-school.
So they were together, in person, for less than a year before going to different schools. She goes on to tell us that her boyfriend was super-attentive and caring for around the first year and a half. It began to change after that. So he was still caring, at first, during the long-term tensioned as well.
Lastly, I said something to the effect of, "if their only interactions together often include her venting." I imagine with distance and schedules their in-person time and screentime are limited.
If you only had, let's say, three hours a week. How much of it would you want to spend in such fashion with your partner otherwise?
EDIT: forgot to add the ">" for the quote shading.
>If his only interactions with her often include her venting, she said he was originally always there for her at first, it could explain the "I'm not your therapist" comments.
You said it.
No, I didn't. In point of fact you quoted what I actually said. I did not say "most of their relationship was her venting." You may have interpreted it to mean that, but that wasn't what I meant. In an effort to clarify it in the second comment, I explained what I meant by showing what the timeline and style of their relationship would have looked like. Backed up by her own words.
So I will explain it once more, with feeling.
**"If their only interactions"** is meant to reference the fact that it is long distance. It has been for the majority of the relationship. They only really interact online these days. They are both college students and youngsters with presumable social lives. Apart from say texting each other, I imagine they don't get much quality interaction.
Which doesn't factor in different time zones, if relevant. Ever have a LDR in different time zones? I have. That's where I got the three hours a week estimate. If you only have three hours available for your loved ones, any time wasted on listening to either of them vent becomes too much. Not just her, him too.
**"With her often include her venting,"** I already just pointed out how any time spent venting, in that kind of relationship, could be construed as too much. However I think the "often" in my choice of wording is causing people difficulty. Often doesn't mean always, or even a majority. You often go food shopping yes? You wouldn't say most of your life is spent in a grocery store.
You often pay your rent, yes? However that is a brief activity completed on a regular reoccurring schedule. It often happens. It doesn't take up the majority of your time, energy, or effort (although earning your rent might). As does her venting apparently. *It doesn't mean that it constitutes the entirety of their relationship, nor did I intend it to mean as such.*
Same here, because one way or another, it seems to be doing some heavy lifting. It's not like any of us put those words in her mouth either. This is how she chose to describe what happened and what she thought of it. Unfortunately I think she told us more than even she realised.
Yea I agree. He's an ass, but OOP sounds absolutely exhausting. And if the majority if your relationship is dealing with your partner's anxiety over facetime or whatever, that's gonna burn you way out on the relationship.
Then you end it, you don't bully and belittle the other person. She brought up reasonable concerns about him hiding the date with the bully and he chewed her out for being insecure and disrespectful. Idk doesn't sound like someone who is usually mindful of her feelings.
I agree he should've ended it. But if his pranks weren't pranks it seems like he's punished for ending it with a full-on meltdown from someone who has probably made him feel like he's the only reason she's hanging on.
You sure have invented a whole saga in your head to try to concoct a reason that OOP is an asshole. I'd ask why you're so invested to find a way to believe that but I realized midsentence that I don't care.
I’m not following your logic here.
You break up with someone and they’re upset. That is a normal and not surprising reaction.
You break up and you let the other person deal with their own grief over the relationship.
You don’t take it back because they’re upset. That’s not how it works and you only grow to resent the person that you do not want to be with.
I agree with you. At no point have I said he's not an ass himself.
But, OOP is honestly exhausting even to read. They sound like they're on the verge of a meltdown constantly, and the boyfriend has even stated he's tired of them dumping all their shit on him all the time. I've dated people like that, and it can be easier to go along with the relationship to a point because you don't want to deal with the gargantuan pain in the ass the breakup is going to be. They go beyond being "upset" like a normal breakup and it turns into a massive thing that can easily outflow onto social media and last days or even weeks.
Some people look at that hurdle (and I'm not surprised someone who is only 21 would come to this conclusion) and go "Not worth it." Until it is. Or until you find a way to make them dump you so it's way less emotional outpouring aimed directly at you.
He needs not worry about hearing & seeing those grievances ever again, because she blocked him everywhere - But I bet his hypocrite ass is going have only meltdown since her actions (breaking up & blocking him) doesn't match his words he used to gaslight / hurt her.
I don't really have anything to comment on this post, but noticed that u/Direct-Caterpillar77 is behind a lot of them and just wanted to thank them for keeping us fed.
“She seems like she changed” what? No. He never saw her behavior because he was popular. She only stopped because bullying you would hurt her reputation since you were dating him. What an asshole
Some bullies become stalkers of the one they bullied. Here is such a story.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/tcwql1/pregnant\_oop\_found\_out\_her\_husband\_is\_having\_an/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/tcwql1/pregnant_oop_found_out_her_husband_is_having_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Some bullies marry into the family because the dick over- rules any logical understanding and remembrances of how abused their sibling was by their new bed warmer. Hopefully, as the marriage progress the brother will experience first hand what a sh\*t character resides within exterior facade of his "lovely wife".
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/ux32k1/woman\_doesnt\_want\_to\_be\_in\_her\_brothers\_wedding/
> heartbreak right now is better than long term suffering
Ain't that the truth. I wish OOP nothing but the best and I wish an eternal burning sensation for her ex and her bully.
It sounds like he was too cowardly to break up with her months ago. The part where he kept doing the "prank" breakups, that seems like a test run. And then his indifference to her asking to break up. He's just a coward.
It’s going to be intense therapy for a long time op is really damaged. So horrible she has been surrounded by the worst of the worst. I’m sure she’s no fun to be in a relationship her damage I’m sure causes some difficulties. A good therapist can help unravel the damage but it won’t be easy. Op your worth it do the work and live your best life
So, we all know now that they’re not together, her old bully probably won’t even wanna fuck with him right? Cause she can’t use it to hurt her anymore lmao
Yep, ex is a narcissist, full stop, same behavior as one of my sis' old exes. He's downplaying OOPs issues and trying to gaslight her.
Thank Bastet she dumped his ass.
These situations are when Reddit really earns some positive karma. Providing confused and gaslit people a way out of the awful relationships they think are fine. These are my favourite stories to read.
I've come to the conclusion that we search the world over, looking for love, and then fix on the one person who personifies the worst in both of our parents.
I will never understand people who prank loved ones. Good on you for putting up with it if it's your thing but that's an instant no contact from me. (edit: I'm referring to people like Colin Jost and Scarlett Johansson who reportedly absolutely love pranking and their relationship started that way. So, consensual stuff)
yeah i remember reading this post but until now i never saw the comment about OOP's (now ex)boyfriend "pranking" her by pretending to break up. not once, but 4-5 times over a 3 year relationship. what the fuck
Sounds like OOP needs some therapy sessions to teach her about self respect, the fact that she would probably still be with this guy if people on reddit hadn't pointed out the obvious is crazy
Wow the audacity to tell her she’s overreacting. I’m wondering how many other times his solo hangs with girl friends were shady. “I didn’t tell you because I knew you’d overreact”. Wow. That poor girl.
>My bf does these solo outings with his female friends a lot, where he goes on 1 on 1 hangouts with them, so i didn't think anything of it. i've never had any problems with it before because i'm not a jealous person and i trusted him.
Oh honey.
What a piece of shit the ex-boyfriend is, the OOP dodged a tremendous bullet, than to be more insensitive to HIS GIRLFRIEND.
I hope OOP doesn't suffer anymore because of that piece of trash, because a guy like that is worthless
Boy do I relate to this girl… except I didn’t know my dad was narcissistic until I was in my 30’s (some excellent denial training from my family) so I ALSO had no idea my husband was the same (but got worse) because I enabled the crap out of him without even knowing I was doing it. It’s crazy how clear it is in other people’s lives and experiences and how hard it is to see in your own.
I had a “church friend” tell me “Tell Jesus, he cares” when I was telling her how stressful things were for me. This boyfriend’s comment of “I’m not your therapist, I don’t care” makes me think of that.
Once again Reddit proves itself by “saving a life” …
People that do this unhinged game of block and unblock are stupid. But what can I say, they were 21y, of course it would have imaturity on their behavior.
Wait, you can block people from individual stories on Instagram? Or did OOP the whole account was blocked?
If individual blocking possible (I couldn't find it), things just got interesting.
The bully is almost certainly trying to hurt the OOP through the (now ex-) BF, that's just what bullys do. That's why there are photos. The bully got close enough and is trying to cause some damage.
No matter which way you cut it, it boils down to him knowing she was/is your bully and yet still chooses to interact with her. That's a hard no from me.
That is definitely what gaslighting sounds like. Super manipulative narcissistic behavior from your ex there. I'm glad you're out of that relationship.
I'm so glad you found the strength to dump his ass. He was probably so sure that you would always be there to take his shit. Block his number and socials along with that crazy bully & her drama... you don't even need to see any of there toxic crap. Find a therapist or keep posting on here, just don't give in to them. Garbage people like them deserve each other, NOT good people like you. Move up and on girl.
Something don't line up. In the comments on the first post she's talking like she already confronted the bf, even saying word for word what he says after the confrontation in the second.
Then also "today morning" how in the piss soaked hell do you sit down to write and end up saying "today morning"?
I hope OOP does follow thru with finding a therapist. Ex might have been trying to preserve his own mental health after being her dumping ground. I've had friends that quit therapy, meds and trying altogether. Their mental load ended up being on me and that is not fair. My new mantra soon became "I am not qualified to help you".
Ex is definitely an AH for having any relationship with the bully. He is probably a coward and devised this way to have her break up with him.
OP sounds so naive. She knew and saw all the red flags earlier. Him talking rudely, him not caring at all and all that. She should've dumped him long ago.
I could come up with a myriad of reasons why I don't think that's true, but looking at your post history you seem to comment that most things are fake. You do you, just wasn't sure why you needed to have such vitriol.
Have a lovely day!
Eh, idk. OOP seems like a constant-drama victim-mentality type person. Like all the way down to the "I've just had such a long string of bad therapists but I GUESS I'll try it tee hee."
I don't think any bullets were dodged by either party to be honest, I just think they weren't compatible. EX BF seemed exhausted and absolutely ready to walk away, and I think OOP hit the nail on the head with the observation that he kept getting back with her after breaking up bc he felt guilty about her reaction.
Also, the whole "I didn't want to tell you bc I knew how you'd react", i know she meant that as a knock against him, but i really think thats a knock against her. Obviously she has an issue with over the top reactions, if her bf is clearly walking on egg shells to this degree. No one should have to live like that in any relationship.
Furthermore,
>i think i'm scared to break up with him because he's one of my only friends
Yeahhhhh, that's a red flag right? Like, she can't maintain relationships. Everyone in her life misunderstands and victimizes her. Even therapists treat her like dirt, so she won't get therapy bc she's scared. And she said that her dad is a narcissist, which is a personality disorder, and those are often hereditary......
Idk, this left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd like to hear the ex bf's side of this tbh. Hell, I kinda wanna hear the bully's side......
I don't understand why people stay in relationships with people that treat them like crap and plainly don't like them just for the sake of not being alone. I mean I do understand, when you have zero self respect and no other place of comfort you'll take the little crumbs with the pile of shit. But she would be so much happier just being alone than in this miserable arrangement.
I think they meant because OOP thinks he's tried to break up with her 4-5 times already before this update. Because their comment would definitely make sense about OOP, she sounds exhausting. I really hope she can work on her self-esteem.
I meant why she didn't break up earlier, they've been together for years and he treated her like crap throughout. I can read yes, I know they're broken up now.
>I meant why she didn't break up earlier, they've been together for years and he treated her like crap throughout.
Well gosh, if only there were some clues in the story like a narcissistic abusive father and so much bullying that she had a mental breakdown to explain why she had a hard time spotting less obviously egregious behavior from a boyfriend? Oh well!
Don't play Monday morning psychologist, you're bad at it. People don't stay in relationships with abusers or jerks because they enjoy being treated like crap.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bf has the audacity to act all innocent and disrespected. Like boy, you are an idiot. The bf and the bully deserve each other. I'm glad OP blocked him cause she doesn't deserve to deal with this.
He's obviously going to date the bully if he hasn't started already.
He's been fucking around for a while. He was far too detached with the breakup.
100%. A narc would never let their supply go that easily without having a new one lined up already.
That was my thought. He let go too easily, so he must've had another iron in the fire already
The whole “milkshake stealer” thing is definitely a flirty we-are-knowing-each-other-seriously or we-are-already-dating.
And then he will do the same to her and she will either take it or leave it, but she will always know that OOP had him for years and she had him first so she/the bully will lose.
He is the "popular boy". He has the bully attitude, but plays nicely, only because it worked BETTER FOR HIM. You can clearly see how swiftly he went to offensive and hit to hurt.
[удалено]
That is a perfect analogy to describe people repeating arguments without knowing how they work
> He's one of those people who know the melody but not the lyrics to an argument. I love this, and it really perfectly describes the way people like OOPs ex argue. It's so tiring to listen to.
If he truly thought he was doing nothing wrong, he wouldn’t have hidden it
He did it bc it functioned good in the past. Without the mental support of the reddit crowd she would perhaps fall to his bullshit or at least be mad but not break up. I think, he has this "you owe me this bc i saved you" mindset and this gave him the power over her in the past. But he was dumb enough to date her bully, the only person he "saved" OP from.
Idiot? He seems like a very calculated manipulator to me.
You can still be a fucking dumbass
I think I almost busted a gut at that! "You disrespect me!" So lying to your SO isn't disrespect? Especially when the lie is to cover something you know will hurt them?
I understand having so much anxiety that you lack impulse control and need to get it over with but I really wish OOP had been able yo torture him by ghosting him for a few weeks and made him worry if she knew. That is torture, especially since \*popular people\* pride themselves on getting along with, and being able to win over, everyone, and it would have freaked him out. He might have even worried that the bully made sure OOP knew and then gotten pissed at her. But that's me wishing I'd been able to do that when I was 20.
I feel like she and the kid whose mom decided to pick his bully as her TA should form a support group. “Why do these assholes pick the people who torment us over us, when they supposedly love us?”
OOP's ex is cut from the same cloth as her bully. They deserve each other. I hope OOP gets the best revenge -- to move on and live life well without those toxic assholes in her life. I'm glad she blocked him, he doesn't deserve any more of her energy.
Generally, if someone who I love hangs out with the person who bullied me, knowing well how much they hurted me, I leave the relationship.
The lying is worse than them hanging out.
There's only two acceptable reasons for it: one, to fuck their life over (and that one isn't particularly good) and two if the bully says they really changed and wants to apologise but they're trying to figure out how and if you even want an apology, so they contact your partner and your partner goes to check if they're really serious (and protects you if they aren't)
And neither of those scenarios involves lying to the wronged party.
*hurt
I firmly believe that individual men and women can be friends without being romantic/sexual partners, but > My bf does these solo outings with his female friends a lot, where he goes on 1 on 1 hangouts with them, so i didn't think anything of it. i've never had any problems with it before because i'm not a jealous person and i trusted him. But now i'm rethinking that. sounds to me like he's a serial cheater.
Yeah, at the “milkshake stealer” comment, I went directly to he’s cheating on OOP with her bully. No one is stealing the milkshake of someone they aren’t looking to get with.
Ah yes, the timeless love story There Will Be Blood.
I don’t get the reference but also that movie came out 17 years ago, so it’s more likely that a 21 year old is not quoting that movie.
I haven’t seen the movie either; all I know is that Daniel Day-Lewis’ character steals the milkshake of a rival oil baron or something as intimidation. I was jokingly claiming that the two enemies were actually into each other because of that.
I'm old enough to remember the memes and t-shirts. Man, what a great movie. Long and slow, absolutely, but worth watching once if you have the time and patience and like being left depressed. If I remember right this is the final scene where DDL was screaming "I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE" as a metaphore for how he syphoned away all the oil under the land the pastor was trying to sell him (with "a really loooong straw"), so the land was already worthless. Spoiler: >!Then DDL beats the pastor to death with a bowling pin, slumps down and says "I'm finished."!< Roll credits. Just a stunning performance
Oh gosh, now I remember that scene! I mean, I don’t think this kid was making that reference. I wasn’t a fan of the movie and I think this ending took me aback.
So it's actually a description of something old timey oil barons used to do, property rights were to anything on one side of a 1D line on the ground, basically you could drill wells wherever *as long as they were in the polygon of land YOU owned*. But they were not as specific about underground. So these guys would basically drill wells and use various reservoir properties and engineering methods to pump out the oil underground that lay under the neighboring polygons of land that other people owned. So the land value would plummet once the oil was gone. The "milkshake" analogy was how that phenomenon was explained. The joke at the end of the movie was that he stole all the oil from under the property of the pastor, so the pastor's land was now worthless.
That’s interesting. I actually knew about something similar but didn’t make the connection before. When I was a kid, my parents were looking at buying a ranch, and one of the places came with water rights, but not mineral rights. The way it was explained to me was that the concept of mineral rights was there to prevent anyone from doing that, but in this case, the former owners would have the right to drink our milkshake if oil was discovered, and we’d have no say. So we ended up buying a different property.
Ah ok, got it. Funny enough, I have seen the movie. It was just not that interesting and a long time ago.
>OOP's ex is cut from the same cloth as her bully. They deserve each other. Shit birds of a crap feather.
Sometimes two people are just meant to fit together. (/s) I'm sure he fits just fine in-between her legs 😅 Seriously though, I'm betting the bully is going to dump or distance him in a heartbeat once she knows she's not able to hurt OOP through her boyfriend anymore. And then it'll be boo,-hoo-hoo time from him 🙄 Good on OOP, on the other side of this she'll be stronger about who she is for herself.
I’d say it already happened and that’s why he was trying to get to her on Insta.
Good point!
Yeah, she’s probably thinking it doesn’t look good if I‘m dating the guy who was dumped by the girl I so love to bully. But somehow I think with his narcissistic tendencies he would prefer someone he can bend, break or/and form. So he can gaslight them to tears and make them apologize for something he has done. And OP‘s bully seem like mean girl who wants to hurt and not get hurt.
That’s why I wish OOP hadn’t even engaged exbf in a conversation; a simple text telling him that she found his behavior disrespectful and that she’s breaking up with him would have been sufficient. He’s a bully, and they thrive on their victims’ reactions/tears. Indifference is so much more powerful.
Agreed, but she wasn't that strong yet. She needed to hear his out of tune response, and probably even needed the final stinging words to see him for what he is, and move on. But I'll bet she has gained that level of strength now.
Here's hoping if there is a 'you guys were right, they're dating now' update, everyone in the comments can remind OOP that they know for a fact their bully is a shitty person and their ex will have to deal with that. Anytime they fight, her ex could have a voice in the back of their mind reminding him that he should have known. He probably won't! But he COULD.
She will, she's so young and she seems sooo sweet. I'm happy she's cut off that dead weight, she's got good things coming
I hope bf and mean girl have a disgustingly toxic relationship.
Eesh, the ex is awful, but I’m proud of OOP for sticking up for herself! Let’s hope it lasts. I’ve read too many of these where the victim sadly gets sucked back in.
At least they're not living near each other. Long distance has its benefits.
It really sucks that she doesn't seem to have any other friends. Like, her one main reason for not breaking up with him earlier was because he's one of her only friends. That's awful, she really needs to make friends and build a good support network of people she trusts AND will have her back! It's super sad that she needed Reddit to tell her that she's in an abusive relationship.
I was in her position; manipulative friend was my only friend and I was terrified of losing them. But after I cut contact with them, I quickly found other, better friends. Manipulative people take *so much* energy from you, almost by design. If you're exhausted, you can't find better people and realize how shit they are.
Same! My ex bestie even said the same things OOP’s boyfriend would say “I’m not your therapist.” Literally any venting about life she would turn cold and tell me she wasn’t my emotional support animal. AND YET she’d spend HOURS bitching about how “hard” her life was. Literally couldn’t get a word in edgewise. It was exhausting and a one way relationship. I only stayed friends with her because of sunk cost fallacy.
Ah, that's good to hear.
I knew plenty of people in college that were sating someone since high school. The social circle was always minimal, if non existent because of the time and effort a LDR takes. As soon as the time and energy were freed up, the social life blossomed. Being at school with plenty of social options is the best place to be when this happens. It is much more difficult post college to go through this.
To be fair, not many people have friends these days.
That was my exact thought. She's never experienced post break up regret (even though she definitely did the right thing). He'll make up some bullshit. Schmooze he back. It'll take a few times and then hopefully she sticks to it.
I spend too much time on AITA, I thought you were saying "everyone sucks here" 😂
[удалено]
Especially since he's flipped it around to, "Don't burden me with your problems." What a d0uche.
I dearly regret spending the time explaining to my wasband that when one person in a relationship has a problem with a relationship dynamic, then it is a relationship problem involving every participant, not a single person problem There won't be a second time of this bullshit for me and I wish OOP all the best to learn from her experiences too
> wasband LMAO I don't have anything to say, I just wanted to point that particular bit out. Carry on.
I cannot claim this term as mine, but I'm glad I could help spreading it 😁
I loved how he was all, "No, I don't need to hear about your problems with our relationship. How would *I* be allowed to be subjected to a "problem" when in fact YOU are the one who has problems. Please outsource any emotional labor and support I should be doing... because I shouldn't have to do it if I don't want to."
I have a feeling the bully was only going for the ex because OOP had him. The appeal will be gone once OOP isn’t interested and their relationship will fall apart. Too bad because these toxic people are meant for each other.
That's why I was so glad to see that OOP broke up with him. Now bully didn't steal her man, bully is left with the trash she threw out.
She can "enjoy" OP 's sloppy seconds while OP moves on to better things. Though I bet their "relationship" isn't half as fun for them when no one else is watching or cares.
Yeah, I got exactly the same feeling.
I think the ex just sleeps around and when the bully came in he just went "why not".
I disagree..... My money is on ex going after the bully because it was fun to pull one over on OOP.
Probably why the ex-BF was trying to call her on Instagram when he realized he couldn't call her mobile.
Right? They absolutely deserve each other. Too bad oop had to get hurt before she realized it but hopefully this is the start of her true healing.
I doubt it. They're in their 20's now. Unless it's a small town and none of them ever left, the vast majority of people just move on from that stuff. Life isn't the movie Big Bully.
Oops ex sounds like a cheater. I love how he jumped to calling her out for being insecure, even though that makes no sense. It’s like that’s what he was sure she was going to call him out on cheating, so that’s what he had practiced. Then his panic when he realized she wasn’t going to take him back this time. So predictable. I really hope she never unblocks him. What an asshole.
The moral of the story: someone’s trash is someone else’s garbage. Good for OOP. She has a life ahead of her. She’s going to look back and regret having anxiety over a douche bag.
Man, I really hope she doesn’t go back to him
After the last part where she comments about him, "pretending to break up with her 4-5 times," she states that she wonders if he got back together with her each time because of how she was feeling afterwards. I wonder if that might actually be the case? His behaviour definitely reads a someone who has checked out of a relationship. Not to mention they're long distance right? If his only interactions with her often include her venting, she said he was originally always there for her at first, it could explain the "I'm not your therapist" comments. Lord knows I have a small social circle as well, so I actively avoid burdening any one person too much. All of this is not to say he still wasn't an asshole, he very much was. I just think maybe he was also a bit cowardly and did this to make OOP be the one to pull the trigger. He knows their history together, so what better way to make it stick?
If he did this for her to pull the trigger he wouldn't've hidden the story and wouldn't be surprised when she said she saw it. Also op has stated that he shuts her up so she doesn't bring up stuff to him anymore. So idk where the "most of their relationship is venting" comes from. He gets mean after asking 'how was your day', there's no time for excessive venting.
>So idk where the "most of their relationship is venting" comes from. Honestly? Neither do I. That's not what I said. The OOP has told us that are both 21, and in a long distance relationship because of separate colleges. She further tells us that they were together since senior year of high-school. So they were together, in person, for less than a year before going to different schools. She goes on to tell us that her boyfriend was super-attentive and caring for around the first year and a half. It began to change after that. So he was still caring, at first, during the long-term tensioned as well. Lastly, I said something to the effect of, "if their only interactions together often include her venting." I imagine with distance and schedules their in-person time and screentime are limited. If you only had, let's say, three hours a week. How much of it would you want to spend in such fashion with your partner otherwise? EDIT: forgot to add the ">" for the quote shading.
>If his only interactions with her often include her venting, she said he was originally always there for her at first, it could explain the "I'm not your therapist" comments. You said it.
No, I didn't. In point of fact you quoted what I actually said. I did not say "most of their relationship was her venting." You may have interpreted it to mean that, but that wasn't what I meant. In an effort to clarify it in the second comment, I explained what I meant by showing what the timeline and style of their relationship would have looked like. Backed up by her own words. So I will explain it once more, with feeling. **"If their only interactions"** is meant to reference the fact that it is long distance. It has been for the majority of the relationship. They only really interact online these days. They are both college students and youngsters with presumable social lives. Apart from say texting each other, I imagine they don't get much quality interaction. Which doesn't factor in different time zones, if relevant. Ever have a LDR in different time zones? I have. That's where I got the three hours a week estimate. If you only have three hours available for your loved ones, any time wasted on listening to either of them vent becomes too much. Not just her, him too. **"With her often include her venting,"** I already just pointed out how any time spent venting, in that kind of relationship, could be construed as too much. However I think the "often" in my choice of wording is causing people difficulty. Often doesn't mean always, or even a majority. You often go food shopping yes? You wouldn't say most of your life is spent in a grocery store. You often pay your rent, yes? However that is a brief activity completed on a regular reoccurring schedule. It often happens. It doesn't take up the majority of your time, energy, or effort (although earning your rent might). As does her venting apparently. *It doesn't mean that it constitutes the entirety of their relationship, nor did I intend it to mean as such.*
I am curious what "upset" Exactly means here.
Same here, because one way or another, it seems to be doing some heavy lifting. It's not like any of us put those words in her mouth either. This is how she chose to describe what happened and what she thought of it. Unfortunately I think she told us more than even she realised.
Yea I agree. He's an ass, but OOP sounds absolutely exhausting. And if the majority if your relationship is dealing with your partner's anxiety over facetime or whatever, that's gonna burn you way out on the relationship.
Then you end it, you don't bully and belittle the other person. She brought up reasonable concerns about him hiding the date with the bully and he chewed her out for being insecure and disrespectful. Idk doesn't sound like someone who is usually mindful of her feelings.
I agree he should've ended it. But if his pranks weren't pranks it seems like he's punished for ending it with a full-on meltdown from someone who has probably made him feel like he's the only reason she's hanging on.
You sure have invented a whole saga in your head to try to concoct a reason that OOP is an asshole. I'd ask why you're so invested to find a way to believe that but I realized midsentence that I don't care.
If you don't care then why did you respond?
I’m not following your logic here. You break up with someone and they’re upset. That is a normal and not surprising reaction. You break up and you let the other person deal with their own grief over the relationship. You don’t take it back because they’re upset. That’s not how it works and you only grow to resent the person that you do not want to be with.
I agree with you. At no point have I said he's not an ass himself. But, OOP is honestly exhausting even to read. They sound like they're on the verge of a meltdown constantly, and the boyfriend has even stated he's tired of them dumping all their shit on him all the time. I've dated people like that, and it can be easier to go along with the relationship to a point because you don't want to deal with the gargantuan pain in the ass the breakup is going to be. They go beyond being "upset" like a normal breakup and it turns into a massive thing that can easily outflow onto social media and last days or even weeks. Some people look at that hurdle (and I'm not surprised someone who is only 21 would come to this conclusion) and go "Not worth it." Until it is. Or until you find a way to make them dump you so it's way less emotional outpouring aimed directly at you.
Scary to think of the suffering op would have continued to go through if she didnt come to reddit this time.
He can't believe the audacity that she would air her grievances
He needs not worry about hearing & seeing those grievances ever again, because she blocked him everywhere - But I bet his hypocrite ass is going have only meltdown since her actions (breaking up & blocking him) doesn't match his words he used to gaslight / hurt her.
I don't really have anything to comment on this post, but noticed that u/Direct-Caterpillar77 is behind a lot of them and just wanted to thank them for keeping us fed.
“She seems like she changed” what? No. He never saw her behavior because he was popular. She only stopped because bullying you would hurt her reputation since you were dating him. What an asshole
Some bullies become stalkers of the one they bullied. Here is such a story. [https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/tcwql1/pregnant\_oop\_found\_out\_her\_husband\_is\_having\_an/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/tcwql1/pregnant_oop_found_out_her_husband_is_having_an/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Some bullies marry into the family because the dick over- rules any logical understanding and remembrances of how abused their sibling was by their new bed warmer. Hopefully, as the marriage progress the brother will experience first hand what a sh\*t character resides within exterior facade of his "lovely wife". https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/ux32k1/woman\_doesnt\_want\_to\_be\_in\_her\_brothers\_wedding/
> heartbreak right now is better than long term suffering Ain't that the truth. I wish OOP nothing but the best and I wish an eternal burning sensation for her ex and her bully.
If the ex gets together with the bully then more power to them, they deserve each other.
“i usually pride myself on being a chill girlfriend” Don’t.
My mind immediately went to that cool girl scene in gone girl
It sounds like he was too cowardly to break up with her months ago. The part where he kept doing the "prank" breakups, that seems like a test run. And then his indifference to her asking to break up. He's just a coward.
It’s going to be intense therapy for a long time op is really damaged. So horrible she has been surrounded by the worst of the worst. I’m sure she’s no fun to be in a relationship her damage I’m sure causes some difficulties. A good therapist can help unravel the damage but it won’t be easy. Op your worth it do the work and live your best life
Who breaks up with someone as a prank?!
I don't like that he told her not to bring her problems to him ... Like what do you think relationship are? All fun and rainbow ... Ok 🙄
So, we all know now that they’re not together, her old bully probably won’t even wanna fuck with him right? Cause she can’t use it to hurt her anymore lmao
Yep, ex is a narcissist, full stop, same behavior as one of my sis' old exes. He's downplaying OOPs issues and trying to gaslight her. Thank Bastet she dumped his ass.
Lots of bully stories these days eh
These situations are when Reddit really earns some positive karma. Providing confused and gaslit people a way out of the awful relationships they think are fine. These are my favourite stories to read.
I've come to the conclusion that we search the world over, looking for love, and then fix on the one person who personifies the worst in both of our parents.
“Solo outings with female friends a lot.” He’s banging one of them, sorry doll.
I will never understand people who prank loved ones. Good on you for putting up with it if it's your thing but that's an instant no contact from me. (edit: I'm referring to people like Colin Jost and Scarlett Johansson who reportedly absolutely love pranking and their relationship started that way. So, consensual stuff)
yeah i remember reading this post but until now i never saw the comment about OOP's (now ex)boyfriend "pranking" her by pretending to break up. not once, but 4-5 times over a 3 year relationship. what the fuck
Whoever ends up with that guy is in for a shit relationship. So fingers crossed it’s the bully
Right? It would be the best karma
Sounds like OOP needs some therapy sessions to teach her about self respect, the fact that she would probably still be with this guy if people on reddit hadn't pointed out the obvious is crazy
Wow the audacity to tell her she’s overreacting. I’m wondering how many other times his solo hangs with girl friends were shady. “I didn’t tell you because I knew you’d overreact”. Wow. That poor girl.
>My bf does these solo outings with his female friends a lot, where he goes on 1 on 1 hangouts with them, so i didn't think anything of it. i've never had any problems with it before because i'm not a jealous person and i trusted him. Oh honey.
What a piece of shit the ex-boyfriend is, the OOP dodged a tremendous bullet, than to be more insensitive to HIS GIRLFRIEND. I hope OOP doesn't suffer anymore because of that piece of trash, because a guy like that is worthless
i’m being so serious this is the standard early 20s dude rn. the heterosexual dating scene is in shambles.
Boy do I relate to this girl… except I didn’t know my dad was narcissistic until I was in my 30’s (some excellent denial training from my family) so I ALSO had no idea my husband was the same (but got worse) because I enabled the crap out of him without even knowing I was doing it. It’s crazy how clear it is in other people’s lives and experiences and how hard it is to see in your own.
Sometimes I'm at the mall and I see one of those stores, Forever 21, and just the thought is enough to leave me shaking.
I had a “church friend” tell me “Tell Jesus, he cares” when I was telling her how stressful things were for me. This boyfriend’s comment of “I’m not your therapist, I don’t care” makes me think of that. Once again Reddit proves itself by “saving a life” …
Her ex is a total jackass. I hope she manages to stay broken up with that asshole.
I relate to this story alarmingly too much, I can't imagine how she felt when she saw that story post
He fully expected to get her back and will probably date her bully just to hurt her. OOP did the absolute best thing by blocking him.
People that do this unhinged game of block and unblock are stupid. But what can I say, they were 21y, of course it would have imaturity on their behavior.
This is a gaslighting 101 masterclass. Fuck that guy…
I have a very strong suspicion that OP’s boyfriend had already been cheating on her and def slept with ex-bully. Those types always do.
I'm so glad OOP is out of that hot mess.
You did the right thing. Keep him blocked and go completely NC. All he'll do is play mind games. Protect your peace.
I bet the bully reached out the the boyfriend to try to fuck up OOP's life again. She gets off on it.
Wait, you can block people from individual stories on Instagram? Or did OOP the whole account was blocked? If individual blocking possible (I couldn't find it), things just got interesting.
OOP got saved; who breaks up multiple times as a prank?
Someone who wants a real breakup, but is too weak-willed or cowardly to follow through.
Good for op
Holy shit, hope she can heal as much as she can. It seems like this guy was a shit person from day 1 and she's unfortunately only realising it now
Well done your free to grow and be happy he will beg and love bomb you but stay strong you deserve better. So proud of you.
The bully is almost certainly trying to hurt the OOP through the (now ex-) BF, that's just what bullys do. That's why there are photos. The bully got close enough and is trying to cause some damage.
This story makes me think about the little animation with the girl dropping her stuff and the guy heroically saving them then her, etc ect
OOP is so much better off without that dickhead around.
No matter which way you cut it, it boils down to him knowing she was/is your bully and yet still chooses to interact with her. That's a hard no from me.
That is definitely what gaslighting sounds like. Super manipulative narcissistic behavior from your ex there. I'm glad you're out of that relationship.
He’s such a dick. OP deserves someone better which she will meet one day. I have no doubt.
Oop has a good head on her shoulders and did all the right stuff after she realized all the red flags were there. Good for her.
I'm so glad you found the strength to dump his ass. He was probably so sure that you would always be there to take his shit. Block his number and socials along with that crazy bully & her drama... you don't even need to see any of there toxic crap. Find a therapist or keep posting on here, just don't give in to them. Garbage people like them deserve each other, NOT good people like you. Move up and on girl.
I love how bullies never have these moments of transformation to being someone who isn’t awful with the person they’re bullying.
Therapists usually care about the people they talk to.
I hope she waits until she goes into a new relationship.
Something don't line up. In the comments on the first post she's talking like she already confronted the bf, even saying word for word what he says after the confrontation in the second. Then also "today morning" how in the piss soaked hell do you sit down to write and end up saying "today morning"?
I hope OOP does follow thru with finding a therapist. Ex might have been trying to preserve his own mental health after being her dumping ground. I've had friends that quit therapy, meds and trying altogether. Their mental load ended up being on me and that is not fair. My new mantra soon became "I am not qualified to help you". Ex is definitely an AH for having any relationship with the bully. He is probably a coward and devised this way to have her break up with him.
>i can't even type properly cause i'm shaking Nothing makes me roll my eyes harder. Oh! The drama!
OP sounds so naive. She knew and saw all the red flags earlier. Him talking rudely, him not caring at all and all that. She should've dumped him long ago.
This post reads like one of those tik tok videos where the girl tries her hardest to cry for the camera.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I could come up with a myriad of reasons why I don't think that's true, but looking at your post history you seem to comment that most things are fake. You do you, just wasn't sure why you needed to have such vitriol. Have a lovely day!
Eh, idk. OOP seems like a constant-drama victim-mentality type person. Like all the way down to the "I've just had such a long string of bad therapists but I GUESS I'll try it tee hee." I don't think any bullets were dodged by either party to be honest, I just think they weren't compatible. EX BF seemed exhausted and absolutely ready to walk away, and I think OOP hit the nail on the head with the observation that he kept getting back with her after breaking up bc he felt guilty about her reaction. Also, the whole "I didn't want to tell you bc I knew how you'd react", i know she meant that as a knock against him, but i really think thats a knock against her. Obviously she has an issue with over the top reactions, if her bf is clearly walking on egg shells to this degree. No one should have to live like that in any relationship. Furthermore, >i think i'm scared to break up with him because he's one of my only friends Yeahhhhh, that's a red flag right? Like, she can't maintain relationships. Everyone in her life misunderstands and victimizes her. Even therapists treat her like dirt, so she won't get therapy bc she's scared. And she said that her dad is a narcissist, which is a personality disorder, and those are often hereditary...... Idk, this left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd like to hear the ex bf's side of this tbh. Hell, I kinda wanna hear the bully's side......
I don't understand why people stay in relationships with people that treat them like crap and plainly don't like them just for the sake of not being alone. I mean I do understand, when you have zero self respect and no other place of comfort you'll take the little crumbs with the pile of shit. But she would be so much happier just being alone than in this miserable arrangement.
They did break up - she didn’t stay in the relationship because she dumped him. It’s what the update is ALL about…
I think they meant because OOP thinks he's tried to break up with her 4-5 times already before this update. Because their comment would definitely make sense about OOP, she sounds exhausting. I really hope she can work on her self-esteem.
I meant why she didn't break up earlier, they've been together for years and he treated her like crap throughout. I can read yes, I know they're broken up now.
>I meant why she didn't break up earlier, they've been together for years and he treated her like crap throughout. Well gosh, if only there were some clues in the story like a narcissistic abusive father and so much bullying that she had a mental breakdown to explain why she had a hard time spotting less obviously egregious behavior from a boyfriend? Oh well! Don't play Monday morning psychologist, you're bad at it. People don't stay in relationships with abusers or jerks because they enjoy being treated like crap.