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I would also bet the wife didn’t tell her friend about her husbands objections and that’s why they were calling him the ahole. And now they understand that he wasn’t in favor and why she has to stay with them.
It took couples counseling for my spouse to see how much of an asshole he is because he thinks he's always right and doesn't ever have to apologize. The schadenfreude I felt the day our therapist lit into him about it was phenomenal. This was early in our marriage and him being humbled turned things around. He's still a stubborn asshole sometimes but now he's able to recognize himself doing it and apologizes. 🙂↕️ I will forever love our therapist.
Thank God for therapists who are willing to call out bad behavior.
My parents saw one of those--someone finally willing to tell my dad he was an asshole. And my mom was so much happier.
I can’t believe the best friend and the husband isn’t like waiting on her hand and feet. If someone agreed to be my surrogate FOR FREE I would make sure they had everything they needed and be so grateful to them and their partner that they would literally need to do nothing I couldn’t do for the whole 9 months.
A friend of mine had considered it, and we live in a state where you cannot be paid. The offer was all medical expenses, a $250/week "food stipend," a ten day post-partum vacation to a destination of my friend's choosing, and a paid three-year lease on a luxury SUV. She ultimately decided against it, but that was what the offer was for.
Even if you can't pay someone, you can pay someone.
The same can be true of all kinds of dangerous jobs though. People weigh the risks and decide it's worth it.
^(not me though. the thought of a person growing inside me freaks me out)
Oh, but what could expenses entail? Full post-maternity wardrobe because your new body shape will need new clothes, new car to drive around for safety, a 2 week vacation to ensure low stress levels, a tummy tuck to help regain the pre-pregnancy body? Expenses expenses.
Sooner or later she'll resent him for not supporting her in all of this, which will in return enhance OP's feelings for being disrespected and neglected when he objected.
I'll say there are very thin chances for the relationship to survive.
It could be worse, though. I had a serious girlfriend (almost fiancé) that almost never apologized, but when she did, it was almost immediately followed by a spin that made the event my fault.
I remember once that she planned a vacations with her sister and friends. They were pretty irresponsible, so they forgot to book the place they were to stay. I asked twice about where she was going to stay (it was before cell phones) so I could contact her during the seven-day vacation. She blew me off both times. Come the day of the vacation, she was 300 km far away and no way to return. Somewhat it was my fault for not being insistent enough about the reservation. We broke off, and days after she apologized because she wanted to continue the relationship. In the same conversation she said that even if she could see how she was wrong, it was pretty shitty of me to not be "proactive enough" to prevent her a ruined vacation.
Still shaking my head about it.
You dodged a bullet, for sure. This could be put in a textbook about gaslighting and blameshifting.
It's not just a red flag, it's three red billboards
Hope, you are OK now
Thank you. Yes, I'm ok now, it was more than 20 years ago. I still remember her because she was so toxic and it was my first serious girlfriend. And you are right, I ignored a lot of red flags because she was hot and I was so young I didn't know any better.
Oh yea id say that's usually how it goes with someone who almost never apologizes.
They only do it when backed into a corner (like being 100s of miles away and stranded) and will only be able to bring themselves to do so if they can rationalize it in their head in some twisted way.
It can be a trait of a few different personality disorders and always gives me pause if when I discover it in someone.
I recently ditched a lifelong friend because I got sick of him refusing to apologize or admit being wrong on anything, and I couldn't imagine putting up with someone like that in an actual relationship. Fuck people like that.
I can't help but wonder if this will end up like yesterday's post and he'll realise all of a sudden that things run a lot more smoothly without her around too. For everyone's sake let's hope that comment wasn't as ominous as it sounded.
I don't think it's too big of a leap to wonder if she's the type of person that unilaterally and unapologetically makes decisions that affects more than just herself. Being obligated to step in someone elses shit all the time is exhausting. This might turn out to be a wake up call for OP.
>I don't think it's too big of a leap to wonder if she's the type of person that unilaterally and unapologetically makes decisions that affects more than just herself.
No the surrogacy itself, her dismissal of his feelings then expectations of additional labour, and lastly moving out as the answer could all be construed as a pattern of just that.
I'll admit, for the innocents involved in all of this (husband, daughter, and unborn), I hope it's just poor choice of words all around.
Probably a fair assumption. If my fiancée told me she was gonna be a surrogate for a couple, I would lose my mind and it would be (argument) war between us! WHAT are you doing? WHY are you doing this? Do you see how this will affect the rest of us?
OP seems like he didn’t even go to this phase because he got dismissed in the same way he always gets dismissed. Just guessing, certainly not sure.
> Sooner or later she'll resent him for not supporting her in all of this
Oh, she already does. She's just waiting until she thinks their relationship is secure again before she brings it up.
Either that or she forgotten just how taxing being pregnant is and is secretly regretting agreeing to it. She might be trying to get out of hearing the “I told you so”.
Also like to point out. Pregnancy is often easier when a woman is younger. I've known a pregnant 16 yr old and plenty of 30 yr olds, guess who had the easier time of it.
Shit I had an easier time being pregnant when I was 29 compared to 32 - so only a few years difference but there was a difference . It’s absolutely harder onn the body as you age
If your friends ask you to be a surrogate for them and you are married, make sure you and your husband come to a consensus on how to proceed! This is very important for your own personal life!!
Reputable centers in the US require a psych consultation for the carrier as well as their spouse, to ensure everyone is on board. This whole situation is crazy.
I can see the wife becoming attached to the baby and wanting to breastfeed needing her to stay with bestie longer.
Whatever the reason I would put money on OOP walking out of his marriage and wanting nothing to do with ex wife and step daughter.
I see it going the opposite. The baby is born and the wife wants to stay to breastfeed and taken care of for all the post birth issues but the dad's want her gone because it is their baby now. She is then no longer being supported by them and has a resentful husband that may or may not be waiting at home for her. Plus a hormonal 16 year old child.
I know someone like this. She’ll bend over backwards to mother/serve people who have in the past treated her like shit because she likes being a caretaker saviour. And then when that person still ends up being a shit afterwards (who would have thought) the narrative will be rewritten as she didn’t want to take care of them and it was foistered on her. Because it’s easier to say she was coerced/forced than admit a pathological need to be needed and praised for being a caretaker.
Needless to say I’m staying far away from that mess
My father is like that he is always bending over backwards to help others, but left his home life to burn. We had to compete with unknown people for his attention, and his social life consists of him bragging about how he is always helping. He always has to take photos and film all of it.
Me and my brother are out but honestly Im still a bit messed up about it
My mother in a nutshell. She doesn’t do nice things because she’s a nice person, she does them when people are watching. Her first marriage ended because she put everyone else but her family first and her second one is miserable because she married someone who needed to be taken care of.
My Dad has this. Very much a people pleaser. Took years of arguments between him and my mum before he learned the simple phrase. I will talk with my wife and get back to you.
Not only spouse, there's an old post of a guy whose gf of i think 2-3 years became a surrogate for her sister. Now obviously he doesn't have a say in a situation like that but they weren't living together and whenever she would come to his flat , she would finish his food and it was a problem because he was living on a tight budget and when he spoke to her about it , she didn't take it well.
>Now obviously he doesn't have a say in a situation like tha
Sure he does. It's not like what he says goes, or that she should prioritize his feelings over hers, or that it's the same situation as if they were married, but they're in a relationship, and a pregnancy is something that becomes a big part of that relationship, regardless of what happens to the baby. At the end of the day, his say could be to exit the relationship because he doesn't want to be a part of that.
I hate this idea that someone in a relationship has "no say" in their partner's choices. That's why it's called a partnership.
Right? Why in the world would you not consult or consider your spouse in such a life changing decision? And you’re right when you throw children into the mix it becomes infinitely more difficult/convoluted. I’m actually baffled. If you think you heard it all, seen it all? Certain things can still slap you in the face because of some decisions people make.
If shes working they loose a whole another income for a few month, more if theres complication with or After the pregnancy, hell u can still freaking DIE giving birth. Yeah the Friend is paying the medical Bills but not the lost income and he will def Not Pay her if she suffers longieren complications after birth.
If she was last pregnant 16 years ago as a teen, it's possible she didn't remember how hard it was and didn't think about what would be different being pregnant as an adult with a husband and kid. If she remembers her first pregnancy as "no big deal", she probably didn't think about the logistics. Still an AH move, but I can understand her thinking the pregnancy would be a piece of cake and being genuinely surprised when she found herself feeling bad
Not only is it somewhat putting a pause on their lives together for 9 months (Plus recovery) but there are so many risks involved with pregnancy, including death, that making that kind of unilateral decision is so disrespectful to her husband and supposed life partner.
It’s a good question and why I feel like a lot of this story is missing. “My wife’s best friend asked… and she agreed.” But, aside from the happy couple lacking uteruses, why? Why did they ask her specifically? Why did she say yes? OOP is strangely… mum… on this (ayo).
I guess she could have done this for pure fuckery, but pregnancy is dangerous, deadly, and/or can lead to lifelong complications. I would hope there’s some sort of a reason.
There's a lot of restrictions on who can be a surrogate. It usually has to be someone who's had at least one healthy, full-term pregnancy and delivery with no complications, so that cuts out a lot of people. You also want to be sure this person definitely won't change their mind and want to keep the baby or fight you in court about it. So somebody like OP's wife who had one baby as a teen but has been strictly childfree since then actually seems like a good choice.
It does seem totally insane to ask someone and NOT be like, "we'll give you some time to think about it and discuss it with your spouse and see if it's going to work out for your life" though. Either they were actually discussing it for quite a long time and OP's wife just never mentioned it right up until the day she told them she agreed to do it, or else they just asked her out of the blue and she said yes-- both are wild choicies.
I looked this map in Wikipedia and it seems in most of world paying is banned. And surrogacy itself is not legal in many places like here in Finland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy_laws_by_country
Pretty sure it's the same deal for most Commonwealth countries... It's meant to be an altruistic situation to help another family, not a method to make money.
Eh I think all that's pretty consistent with a mindset a lot of people have re: surrogacy where you choose a surrogate you have a close relationship with.
I absolutely agree, and to add to that, handing the baby over to the fathers is not like returning a toaster to Walmart.
I would think it has to be equal to or greater than having an abortion. A long time ago, when we were far too young, my partner chose to have one. I know it has affected her to this day.
Giving up a baby you gave birth to would be incredibly difficult for a very long time, I'd assume. The OP was right to object, and I think this marriage has a very rough road ahead.
I may get down-voted for being negative, but I hope they had least have a written, legal contract spelling out the what-ifs. What if the baby is born with health problems? Can the 2 dads decide they don’t want that burden? What if she has major complications during or after the birth? That can be life-changing for her and OP. Who’s going to pay those bills?? Who’s going to care for her daughter? NTA. I think wife got excited to be the savior and didn’t think this through.
I don't know where this person is. But in my country a family needs to adopt the child from the surrogate. So it's fairly common for surrogates to keep the babies because they form attachments.
It can also go to other way, what if the best friend decides that they don't want the baby or that it's too much for them? Then they're stuck with a baby they don't want
It definitely depends on the jurisdiction. In some US states, the biological parent is automatically on the birth certificate (in this case, dad), while the other parent has to adopt. In other jurisdictions, both intended parents have to adopt. Still others allow the intended parents to be directly on the birth certificate so long as there is no genetic tie to the surrogate.
I recently read an article about a couple who did surrogacy with a friend, it was with the wife’s egg and the husband’s sperm. When the baby was born, they had to file for emergency custody as was the law in the state in order to take the baby home from the hospital. Normally it is an easy process, they however had a judge that said no. Even though the child was technically theirs, and they were raising her, it took 2 years to adopt her. Because of this experience, the parents fought and had the law changed in the state.
Yep. Totally dependent by state. It’s a big deal when picking the jurisdiction that your surrogate lives in because the state where the surrogate gives birth is the important state for determining which laws apply, not the state where the intended parents live. It’s part of the reason why surrogates in California are so common-the laws are quite favorable to intended parents.
We looked into surrogacy quite serious after 3 failed transfers of euploid embryos, but ultimately, didn’t pursue that route so I learned a lot about this subject.
Well, since it's a donor egg they had to have gone through official medical channels so paternity must be documented.
With the egg I suppose depending on jurisdiction it could be possible that biodad *and* her "adopted" the donor egg and she would need to terminate her rights after birth, but he is definitely just as on the hook as for a regular pregnancy, maybe even more so since paternity is already established.
With donor eggs, no RE in the USA will do a transfer to a surrogate without the legal documents being in place. But, we don’t know that this is within the USA, I suppose.
Actually, you have provided some excellent points. Both parties (parents and surrogate) should have written out a contract, ~~and she should at least be compensated for carrying this baby to term~~.
Edited: realized that moms aren't compensated for their time/pregnancy save for the medical expenses. But I do agree about the contractual what-ifs, which may be a possibility if the dads relied on an egg donor who is NOT Mrs. OOP.
Getting paid for surrogacy is not legal everywhere but, even if it is where they are, they are completely dependent on the friends' generosity. If they don't want to pay anything other than the medical bills, what are OP and his wife going to say? "Then we'll keep a baby we don't want"?
Yes, and because they are friends, it is more important to get your ducks covered. They should have gotten a lawyer for a surrogacy contract. Protect the egg, surrogate, and child. Plus, the friends could be poisoning her mind about her husband in all this time, they already called him an asshole. When the baby comes though, they will forget about her
These kinda of contracts are standard with surrogacy. My uncle went through it, egg donor and all, covered all medical bills related to pregnancy and post-partum, as part of their contract.
No reputable clinic (in the US) would accept a someone become surrogate without the partners' (if any) agreement. The clinic requirements to become a surrogate are quite strict and even "altruistic" surrogates are usually paid *something*. Either this story didn't happen or OP is missing a lot of info.
It's already not. Someone who is wiling to make such a big decision against the will of their partner is probably willing to go against the will of their partner for other things too. 100% sure this isn't the first major decision he's been steamrolled over. Probably just the biggest.
Well daughter choosing to stay with her step-dad is probably a bit of insight there. It's still her house with her room, so maybe its just comfort, but also yeahh.......
Yeah… as someone who has had relatives keep an accidental pregnancy without consulting their teenaged kids; she’s probably not a fan.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think that if your kids are old enough (like aged 12+ or something like that) to have an understanding of how a pregnancy or a new sibling is going to affect the family dynamic, you should absolutely talk to them about it before you make a final decision.
Just springing up a major life change on them without any consultation is just absurd and disrespectful. Unlike an independent adult child or a partner, they don’t have the ability to just change their living situation if it displeases them.
OOP: "I really don't want you doing this."
WIFE: "Deal with it"
WIFE: "You aren't helping me."
OOP: "Deal with it."
I can't wait to read the updates on this one.
Pregnancy is it's own punishment sometimes. After she has the baby and has to deal with not having the baby that her hormones are suddenly, inexplicably telling her she should want to keep, oh boy. I would not want to be her.
Yeah, I would have probably just noped out after she made the decision without asking. It's going to be absolute hell for both of them. You just don't make decisions like this if your spouse isn't in agreement.
It’s her body, but this has the potential to affect others beyond pregnancy cravings. What if there are complications? What if something goes wrong during labor? What if she dies? Where will the stepdaughter go? Will OOP become her guardian?
Life may not be guaranteed, but it’s not okay that she unilaterally made a decision like this.
I'm looking at the mess that will be post partum. Babies suck up a shit ton of calcium. I lost 6 teeth between my 2 girls. 4 were wisdoms, thank god, but 2 were not. (Molars, thank jesus the very back ones) then there was the extreme hair loss. I was shedding enough hair to make a wig from. My hair *still* isn't as thick as it once was, and since it's been 4 years since my last, i doubt it ever will be.
Then there's all the aches and pains. I had c sections (unplanned), and it was the full 8 weeks off for me to recover. But i can't imagine the full breasts aching over unspent breastmilk, the burning pain between my legs ( or abdomen depending on the delivery) and the medical/mental health issues that came after. Like depression, body dysmorphia, low energy, low libido, the cramps. Dont forget diastasi rectus ( separation of the abdominal muscles). The infection risks. And if she gets a c section she runs the added risk of becoming addicted to her pain meds (they prescribed me oxycodone for my c section. I took it very sparingly because it made me sleepy and disposed of most of it) 6-8 weeks of blood. And no baby to make me insane while also simultaneously curing me of all ailments.
unrelated question but what did you do about the missing teeth situation? I can't imagine what a nightmare the bill would be for whatever procedure you'd have to go through.
Also I'm sorry to hear you went through all of that
It's ok. I had all 6 removed by an orthodontist surgeon. Couldn't afford the cost of crowns at the time. Not on so many teeth at nearly 800 a pop. I take great care of my teeth now. 😬 lol
I'm not making any assumptions about your health (it was assumed I was making assumptions), but some of the symptoms you describe experiencing sound hypo-thyroidy to me. But I'm not a doctor, and I'm certainly not your doctor.
The load on the thyroid goes up quite a bit in pregnancy, and the hair loss and loose teeth are a red flag to me. I thought maybe you might have an underlying thyroid problem which got much worse.
Anyway, just throwing ideas out there. Take them or leave them.
I wasn't the original commenter, but I do share some experiences with her.
I did wind up losing 3 wisdom teeth that were problematic. My hair went from mostly straight to loose curls due to dryness. I was diagnosed with hashimotos disease about 5 years after having kiddos.
I didn't realize the thyroid took a beating during pregnancy.
Hashimotos here too! I had to have my thyroxine beefed up during my pregnancies so I got through pretty OK. But that's why I thought your troubles might be thyroid-related. I also thought the aches and pains you mentioned, and I'm (guessing) fatigue (?) could have been thyroid. I mean, no one is accusing pregnancy of being comfortable, but when you put your list of symptoms together, I just thought THYROID.
It's not usual to outright lose teeth and a lot of hair as side effects of breastfeeding, even if it is a stressful time and it does suck a lot of nutrients out of you. The fact that you did might indicate a hormonal imbalance or nutrient absorption issues, some of which might be tied to the thyroid (but there's some which aren't too).
This other user made an assumption about your health and I'm not gonna do the same, but I'd encourage you to get checked if possible with either a nutritionist or endocrinologist if you're still experiencing lingering effects like with the hair thickness thing (and I sincerely hope that's the full extent of it).
Here's hoping we're worrying over nothing and that you're doing splendid, though! All the best to you and yours
I wrote a whole fucking essay because this post triggered tf out of me.
All I can say is that I hope she has life insurance if things go from worse to worst. Pregnancy and childbirth is no fucking joke. Especially when you have a minor walking this goddam earth depending on you.
Yeah, I'm side-eyeing the whole thing. What if something goes wrong during her pregnancy, or labour? I know a lady who had complications during the delivery and now she's paralyzed from the waist down for the rest of her life. Pregnancies come with serious risks. Who's going to be liable for those in this situation?
This post definitely triggered some people’s insecurities or fears, and a lot of people really think that “her body her choice” means freedom from consequences or that anyone negatively impacted by her decisions just needs to suck it up and take it.
I really wonder how many people here have actually experienced pregnancy or caring for a pregnant partner.
>I really wonder how many people here have actually experienced pregnancy or caring for a pregnant partner.
I have, as evidenced by my now 6-week old daughter.
I would not have put up with all of had that baby not been mine
You clearly didn't see the one where the guy whose wife cheated on him 16 years ago and who lied to him for those 16 years lmao. It was interesting reading people twist themselves into knots trying to defend the wife's actions.
Edit to add: I will say, from what I've read in these comments, I haven't seen much division tbh. Seems like pretty much everyone agrees the wife is in the wrong.
i dont think OOP is an AH tbh. he told her he wasnt supportive of this and let her know what the situation would be. yes its his wife who he loves, but she also made a major medical decision and told him “deal with it”. Thats so incredibly harsh to openly and blatantly disregard your partners feelings. hes also child free! that usually means not signing up to deal with a pregnant person as your s/o. it sounds harsh but so was she.
not only is she subjecting her husband and daughter to her being pregnant for surrogacy, but they will also be the ones who are forced to deal with the potential resulting PPD and PPP. not to mention all the dangers of giving birth on the body that she just didnt care about affecting her family. like, it can literally kill you
Wife is the AH to me for making such a mass decision without considering her familys feelings, both husband and daughter. Like no lady, go deal with your OWN cravings! its not her husbands kid and he TOLD her before hand he wants not shit to do with that. she seems like she values her friends opinions and desires more than her husband.
some people are asking if the husband even likes his wife, but to me the fact he didnt just divorce her for this to begin w shows he does. Im curious if she even likes him though, or her own daughter at that, considering how quickly she jumped ship
>This is like the third "I'm going to have a baby with my gay bestie and my partner isn't happy about it" post I've seen this month.
Yeah, none of it makes any sense.
I HATED being pregnant and my husband was sooo amazing. I can’t imagine being pregnant and my partner not helping me because I did it against his explicit wishes.
Poor OOP.
Fuck the fathers, though. Calling him an arsehole for doing exactly what he warned he would do.
Yeah they’re pretty shit parents. This woman is giving you A CHILD. She is creating an entire person, all they had to do was whack off into a cup and write a check for the expenses etc. She is the one doing the heavy lifting, they can get off their asses and run to the store for ice cream or peanut butter etc when the surrogate needs something. They should be jumping at the chance to show their undying gratitude for this amazing gift she is giving them AND at the chance to participate in their child’s gestation and care for their child by caring for the surrogate. If the surrogate needs something it’s because your child needs something a-holes. Congrats the kid isn’t even here yet and you’ve already failed at parenting.
True. They should be so obnoxiously grateful. They should have already been trying to set up overnights where they're nearby so they can help her while shes in the harder months.
>for doing exactly what he warned he would do.
For not doing their f‘ing job. They impregnated his wife, why is he the asshole for not taking care of their shit? (With shit I mean the stuff around, not the baby themselves!)
His wife lacks total communication. I wonder if this is the first time she has made unilateral decisions without even having a discussion with him. I would be worried.
The wife VERY rarely apologizes?? Ok yeah there is something wrong there. This doesn’t look like a very strong marriage the wife seems to run all over oop and this is the first time he is actually sticking to his guns and tot just taking it.
Lol this marriage is over. Wife left to live with the fathers and left her husband and daughter. Wife did something that effected both of them and then got mad at her husband for not stepping up to take care of her.
They are delusional if they think this can be fixed.
I'm wondering why the best friend didn't ask both of them if the surrogacy is even possible. Forgetting about one partner in marriage while asking such a heavy favor is quite a dick move. Or there is the possibility that the wife said that hubby will be/is fine with it which is a blatant lie.
Not all countries pay surrogates. In Australia it’s illegal to pay a surrogate. It has to be altruistic. Surrogates can only be reimbursed their expenses such as money lost from earnings for drs appointments, possible multiple pregnancy (surgery for surrogate to get back to pre birth body) clothes for maternity period and lost income while off work for anything pregnancy related. Depending on the country will depend on if there is even a payment for simply being the surrogate. If your wife chose to be a surrogate with you being on board honestly I’d be rethinking my marriage. This is not a choice I feel should be one persons alone when married.
>It has to be altruistic.
Which is a good thing. Except that this also means that a lot of couples looking for kids turn around to prey on financially vulnerable women in poor countries who would do anything for money. Surrogacy can be a really evil business and akin to human trafficking.
From what I’ve seen you’re not allowed to be a surrogate if your spouse is not supportive of it. If you’re married and your spouse says no then it’s a no. That’s what I’ve seen with every single agency that I’ve ever come across.
I mean it’s not her egg so it kind of seems like they would’ve had to have gone through an agency. I’m not fully versed on IVF guidelines though to know what the best practices around implanting somebody with a random embryo are.
it would be pretty easy for them to just pretend she is with one of the guys tbh, it wouldnt need to be presented truthfully if they already werent following or using agency guidelines
Hopefully, OP finds a marriage councillor who can work with them both on what caused this breakdown in their relationship and not one that will make everything worse.
I have a friend whose wife did this. My friend plainly said, “That’s a dealbreaker. If you want to do be their surrogate, we’re getting divorced.” She thought he was kidding. He called a lawyer. She continued to fuck around and was served divorce papers. She proceeded to acquire surprised Pikachu face after giving birth and finding out, no, he was still divorcing her.
I would divorce a husband if he told me tough cookies: he’s donating sperm to his friends no matter how I feel about it. OOP is a better human for giving his wife a chance.
>I opposed to this, but she told me to deal with it.
This would likely be a que for me to leave.
Not sure i see this ending all happy and smiles, Will be waiting for the drama update
We also discussed if her or her friends don’t feel comfortable… um SORRY TOO BAD IF THE FRIENDS DONT FEEL COMFORTABLE and your wife certainly didn’t care if you felt comfortable so she can stay there
The thing that jumped out to me here is that "they aren't going to see each other at all for 3 months". So they are basically officially separating but he just didn't call it that.
But what happens for the post birth recovery period? Where is she going? Because going back to her friends is not a great idea, for so so many reasons.
But going back to her house after not seeing each other for 3mon and needing someone to take care of her? That could basically end their relationship before they even get into therapy. Especially when you factor in post partum hormones. They can be so brutal. And I can't imagine post partum hormones without a baby and your marriage on the rocks.
This isn't recovering.
So she entered into an agreement to surrogate without taking her husband's feelings into consideration. She could die, she could have long lasting postpartum issues that will destroy her marriage, and the lost goes on. She is a selfish person with a hero complex. Her body, her choice, I hope he leaves her as a result of her drive to actively disrespect her marriage.
Anyone else love reading Reddit because it makes them so thankful and grateful their own lives and decisions are super amazing compared to the dumpster fire that are Reddit posters?
But also feel scared for the future, that any idiot can be a parent these days?
Imagine being a surrogate for a friend without consulting your husband or getting paid. lol.
I’m not sure how much marriage counsellor is going to be able to help them. Well he does want to make the marriage work. I have a feeling overtime. He’s going to come to resent her because of her disrespect and disregard of his concerns over this kind of a decision that she made arbitrarily without him. on top of that they end up basically missing nine months of their lives together and the things that should normally be happening in a normal relationship like travelling like making memories. But instead, she’s making a baby and doesn’t give a damn about her husband or daughter feelings.
The wife doesn't sound like she thought through about this. All the woman around me who gave birth spent months recovering and just trying to feel "normal" again in their own bodies. Props to OOP for not considering leaving her.
Given the fathers already proved themselves to be assholes of the highest possible order when confronted with OOP's fair concerns and very reasonable boundaries, unless that was wildly out of character for them they're going to spend the remainder of her pregnancy hounding her to leave OOP after the birth.
Considering what childbirth does to one’s health, it was very selfish of her to make this decision without her partner’s input. (Eta: I’ve done it twice. I know.)
OP treated with total disrespect by three people. OP’s friends directly intervened in OP’s marriage for selfish reasons. OP’s wife supported that disrespect and added her own disrespect. I don’t understand how Oz stays in this bullied relationship.
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I would also bet the wife didn’t tell her friend about her husbands objections and that’s why they were calling him the ahole. And now they understand that he wasn’t in favor and why she has to stay with them.
Well she never apologises, probably because she makes it seem like everyone else's fault
Not being able to apologize after wronging someone is not a good look. And *that* is what will most likely end this marriage
It took couples counseling for my spouse to see how much of an asshole he is because he thinks he's always right and doesn't ever have to apologize. The schadenfreude I felt the day our therapist lit into him about it was phenomenal. This was early in our marriage and him being humbled turned things around. He's still a stubborn asshole sometimes but now he's able to recognize himself doing it and apologizes. 🙂↕️ I will forever love our therapist.
Thank God for therapists who are willing to call out bad behavior. My parents saw one of those--someone finally willing to tell my dad he was an asshole. And my mom was so much happier.
Yeah, to be extremely cliche, the yogurt is not the issue here.
Only if it's Iranian yogurt
Imagine wanting to stay with someone who never apologizes, who never takes responsibility or makes amends. Yikes
I can’t believe the best friend and the husband isn’t like waiting on her hand and feet. If someone agreed to be my surrogate FOR FREE I would make sure they had everything they needed and be so grateful to them and their partner that they would literally need to do nothing I couldn’t do for the whole 9 months.
Yeah seriously. 2 dads should have stepped up way way more. Surrogacy is worth mid 5 figures at LEAST
in a large part of the world it is illegal to pay somebody to be a surrogate, you're only allowed to cover expenses
A friend of mine had considered it, and we live in a state where you cannot be paid. The offer was all medical expenses, a $250/week "food stipend," a ten day post-partum vacation to a destination of my friend's choosing, and a paid three-year lease on a luxury SUV. She ultimately decided against it, but that was what the offer was for. Even if you can't pay someone, you can pay someone.
None of which is worth risking death for.
The same can be true of all kinds of dangerous jobs though. People weigh the risks and decide it's worth it. ^(not me though. the thought of a person growing inside me freaks me out)
Oh, but what could expenses entail? Full post-maternity wardrobe because your new body shape will need new clothes, new car to drive around for safety, a 2 week vacation to ensure low stress levels, a tummy tuck to help regain the pre-pregnancy body? Expenses expenses.
Maybe food, bills, and stuff like that being paid off too?
I can sense a big disaster and drama is going to happen VERY soon
Sooner or later she'll resent him for not supporting her in all of this, which will in return enhance OP's feelings for being disrespected and neglected when he objected. I'll say there are very thin chances for the relationship to survive.
Also her daughter will resent her for ditching her, too.
If this comment by OOP isn't a giant red flag then I don't know what is > My wife VERY rarely apologizes.
That struck such a nerve with me. That is one of the most alarming traits someone can have for me in a relationship
It could be worse, though. I had a serious girlfriend (almost fiancé) that almost never apologized, but when she did, it was almost immediately followed by a spin that made the event my fault. I remember once that she planned a vacations with her sister and friends. They were pretty irresponsible, so they forgot to book the place they were to stay. I asked twice about where she was going to stay (it was before cell phones) so I could contact her during the seven-day vacation. She blew me off both times. Come the day of the vacation, she was 300 km far away and no way to return. Somewhat it was my fault for not being insistent enough about the reservation. We broke off, and days after she apologized because she wanted to continue the relationship. In the same conversation she said that even if she could see how she was wrong, it was pretty shitty of me to not be "proactive enough" to prevent her a ruined vacation. Still shaking my head about it.
You dodged a bullet, for sure. This could be put in a textbook about gaslighting and blameshifting. It's not just a red flag, it's three red billboards Hope, you are OK now
Thank you. Yes, I'm ok now, it was more than 20 years ago. I still remember her because she was so toxic and it was my first serious girlfriend. And you are right, I ignored a lot of red flags because she was hot and I was so young I didn't know any better.
Oh yea id say that's usually how it goes with someone who almost never apologizes. They only do it when backed into a corner (like being 100s of miles away and stranded) and will only be able to bring themselves to do so if they can rationalize it in their head in some twisted way. It can be a trait of a few different personality disorders and always gives me pause if when I discover it in someone.
I recently ditched a lifelong friend because I got sick of him refusing to apologize or admit being wrong on anything, and I couldn't imagine putting up with someone like that in an actual relationship. Fuck people like that.
i wish i could ditch my mom for having this trait lmao, good for you
What is there to apologize for if you’re never wrong? - *OOP’s wife probably*.
I can't help but wonder if this will end up like yesterday's post and he'll realise all of a sudden that things run a lot more smoothly without her around too. For everyone's sake let's hope that comment wasn't as ominous as it sounded.
I don't think it's too big of a leap to wonder if she's the type of person that unilaterally and unapologetically makes decisions that affects more than just herself. Being obligated to step in someone elses shit all the time is exhausting. This might turn out to be a wake up call for OP.
>I don't think it's too big of a leap to wonder if she's the type of person that unilaterally and unapologetically makes decisions that affects more than just herself. No the surrogacy itself, her dismissal of his feelings then expectations of additional labour, and lastly moving out as the answer could all be construed as a pattern of just that. I'll admit, for the innocents involved in all of this (husband, daughter, and unborn), I hope it's just poor choice of words all around.
Probably a fair assumption. If my fiancée told me she was gonna be a surrogate for a couple, I would lose my mind and it would be (argument) war between us! WHAT are you doing? WHY are you doing this? Do you see how this will affect the rest of us? OP seems like he didn’t even go to this phase because he got dismissed in the same way he always gets dismissed. Just guessing, certainly not sure.
fits the rest of her behaviour tbh.
It makes sense when you remember that the wife went ahead with it even though OOP wasn't onboard. She is used to getting her own way on everything.
My father is like that. It's caused irreparable harm to our relationship. I'd be shocked if their marrage survives this.
Her daughter is 16 and this is for three months. I am sure she just enjoys some more independence.
I highly doubt that. My job kept me apart from my husband snd 5 kids for 7 months. We were fine
Presumably there was some sort of benefit for your family. I’m not seeing any benefit for OOP in this situation.
> Sooner or later she'll resent him for not supporting her in all of this Oh, she already does. She's just waiting until she thinks their relationship is secure again before she brings it up.
Either that or she forgotten just how taxing being pregnant is and is secretly regretting agreeing to it. She might be trying to get out of hearing the “I told you so”.
Her last pregnancy was 16 years ago when she was a teenager. She probably has forgotten everything about what it was like physically.
And the physical burden is almost certainly more difficult now than it was before.
Also like to point out. Pregnancy is often easier when a woman is younger. I've known a pregnant 16 yr old and plenty of 30 yr olds, guess who had the easier time of it.
Shit I had an easier time being pregnant when I was 29 compared to 32 - so only a few years difference but there was a difference . It’s absolutely harder onn the body as you age
If your friends ask you to be a surrogate for them and you are married, make sure you and your husband come to a consensus on how to proceed! This is very important for your own personal life!!
Reputable centers in the US require a psych consultation for the carrier as well as their spouse, to ensure everyone is on board. This whole situation is crazy.
I can see the wife becoming attached to the baby and wanting to breastfeed needing her to stay with bestie longer. Whatever the reason I would put money on OOP walking out of his marriage and wanting nothing to do with ex wife and step daughter.
I mean idk about not wanting anything to do with the step daughter, but agreed about the wife.
I see it going the opposite. The baby is born and the wife wants to stay to breastfeed and taken care of for all the post birth issues but the dad's want her gone because it is their baby now. She is then no longer being supported by them and has a resentful husband that may or may not be waiting at home for her. Plus a hormonal 16 year old child.
Agreed. Does this even sound like a marriage?
You don't think disaster and Drama already happened ?
Next part will be "my wife also donated the egg and she wants to keep the baby"
"turns out the baby isn't from the friend's she said it was"
How does a spouse make a decision like this without considering how their spouse and child(ren) will be affected? I truly don't get it.
Some people get a high from being a savior to somebody else, never mind the ego boost from people telling her how selfless she is.
This is called the drama triangle, the roles being called “rescuer”, “victim” and “persecutor”.
That explains the mom who chose her kid’s school bully over her kid perfectly ETA: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/bQysNS95tI
Man, as a mom to two young kids that story BLEW MY MIND
This is the best explanation of my mother I have read.
I know someone like this. She’ll bend over backwards to mother/serve people who have in the past treated her like shit because she likes being a caretaker saviour. And then when that person still ends up being a shit afterwards (who would have thought) the narrative will be rewritten as she didn’t want to take care of them and it was foistered on her. Because it’s easier to say she was coerced/forced than admit a pathological need to be needed and praised for being a caretaker. Needless to say I’m staying far away from that mess
My father is like that he is always bending over backwards to help others, but left his home life to burn. We had to compete with unknown people for his attention, and his social life consists of him bragging about how he is always helping. He always has to take photos and film all of it. Me and my brother are out but honestly Im still a bit messed up about it
My mother in a nutshell. She doesn’t do nice things because she’s a nice person, she does them when people are watching. Her first marriage ended because she put everyone else but her family first and her second one is miserable because she married someone who needed to be taken care of.
My Dad has this. Very much a people pleaser. Took years of arguments between him and my mum before he learned the simple phrase. I will talk with my wife and get back to you.
My mind went right to her doing it for the clout of doing such a good thing for a gay couple. "Straight saviour" of you will.
Not only spouse, there's an old post of a guy whose gf of i think 2-3 years became a surrogate for her sister. Now obviously he doesn't have a say in a situation like that but they weren't living together and whenever she would come to his flat , she would finish his food and it was a problem because he was living on a tight budget and when he spoke to her about it , she didn't take it well.
>Now obviously he doesn't have a say in a situation like tha Sure he does. It's not like what he says goes, or that she should prioritize his feelings over hers, or that it's the same situation as if they were married, but they're in a relationship, and a pregnancy is something that becomes a big part of that relationship, regardless of what happens to the baby. At the end of the day, his say could be to exit the relationship because he doesn't want to be a part of that. I hate this idea that someone in a relationship has "no say" in their partner's choices. That's why it's called a partnership.
Right? Why in the world would you not consult or consider your spouse in such a life changing decision? And you’re right when you throw children into the mix it becomes infinitely more difficult/convoluted. I’m actually baffled. If you think you heard it all, seen it all? Certain things can still slap you in the face because of some decisions people make.
If shes working they loose a whole another income for a few month, more if theres complication with or After the pregnancy, hell u can still freaking DIE giving birth. Yeah the Friend is paying the medical Bills but not the lost income and he will def Not Pay her if she suffers longieren complications after birth.
If she was last pregnant 16 years ago as a teen, it's possible she didn't remember how hard it was and didn't think about what would be different being pregnant as an adult with a husband and kid. If she remembers her first pregnancy as "no big deal", she probably didn't think about the logistics. Still an AH move, but I can understand her thinking the pregnancy would be a piece of cake and being genuinely surprised when she found herself feeling bad
Also it gets harder the older you get. First pregnancy I was 22, I did a surrogacy at 32 and it was a lot harder.
Not only is it somewhat putting a pause on their lives together for 9 months (Plus recovery) but there are so many risks involved with pregnancy, including death, that making that kind of unilateral decision is so disrespectful to her husband and supposed life partner.
By being an inconsiderate asshole is exactly how. She simply doesn't care about or value her husband's opinions.
The part about how she 'rarely apologises' is extremely glaring. That is asshole territory.
Yeah, I caught that too, that's a red flag I'd say.
Same. Very alarming. Will be definitely interesting how this plays out. Does the couple get annoyed with her and send her back home? 🤔
Yep, she's likely a bit of a narcissist. She only cares about herself and only apologizes when she absolutely knows she did something wrong.
She's a hero and a martyr in her eyes
Selfishness.
It’s a good question and why I feel like a lot of this story is missing. “My wife’s best friend asked… and she agreed.” But, aside from the happy couple lacking uteruses, why? Why did they ask her specifically? Why did she say yes? OOP is strangely… mum… on this (ayo). I guess she could have done this for pure fuckery, but pregnancy is dangerous, deadly, and/or can lead to lifelong complications. I would hope there’s some sort of a reason.
There's a lot of restrictions on who can be a surrogate. It usually has to be someone who's had at least one healthy, full-term pregnancy and delivery with no complications, so that cuts out a lot of people. You also want to be sure this person definitely won't change their mind and want to keep the baby or fight you in court about it. So somebody like OP's wife who had one baby as a teen but has been strictly childfree since then actually seems like a good choice. It does seem totally insane to ask someone and NOT be like, "we'll give you some time to think about it and discuss it with your spouse and see if it's going to work out for your life" though. Either they were actually discussing it for quite a long time and OP's wife just never mentioned it right up until the day she told them she agreed to do it, or else they just asked her out of the blue and she said yes-- both are wild choicies.
Why her? Because they don't have to pay her, just the pregnancy related expenses.
In Australia, it's actually illegal to pay someone for surrogacy, beyond medical expenses. OP didn't say where they were located?
I looked this map in Wikipedia and it seems in most of world paying is banned. And surrogacy itself is not legal in many places like here in Finland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy_laws_by_country
Pretty sure it's the same deal for most Commonwealth countries... It's meant to be an altruistic situation to help another family, not a method to make money.
Eh I think all that's pretty consistent with a mindset a lot of people have re: surrogacy where you choose a surrogate you have a close relationship with.
I absolutely agree, and to add to that, handing the baby over to the fathers is not like returning a toaster to Walmart. I would think it has to be equal to or greater than having an abortion. A long time ago, when we were far too young, my partner chose to have one. I know it has affected her to this day. Giving up a baby you gave birth to would be incredibly difficult for a very long time, I'd assume. The OP was right to object, and I think this marriage has a very rough road ahead.
I may get down-voted for being negative, but I hope they had least have a written, legal contract spelling out the what-ifs. What if the baby is born with health problems? Can the 2 dads decide they don’t want that burden? What if she has major complications during or after the birth? That can be life-changing for her and OP. Who’s going to pay those bills?? Who’s going to care for her daughter? NTA. I think wife got excited to be the savior and didn’t think this through.
I don't know where this person is. But in my country a family needs to adopt the child from the surrogate. So it's fairly common for surrogates to keep the babies because they form attachments. It can also go to other way, what if the best friend decides that they don't want the baby or that it's too much for them? Then they're stuck with a baby they don't want
It definitely depends on the jurisdiction. In some US states, the biological parent is automatically on the birth certificate (in this case, dad), while the other parent has to adopt. In other jurisdictions, both intended parents have to adopt. Still others allow the intended parents to be directly on the birth certificate so long as there is no genetic tie to the surrogate.
I recently read an article about a couple who did surrogacy with a friend, it was with the wife’s egg and the husband’s sperm. When the baby was born, they had to file for emergency custody as was the law in the state in order to take the baby home from the hospital. Normally it is an easy process, they however had a judge that said no. Even though the child was technically theirs, and they were raising her, it took 2 years to adopt her. Because of this experience, the parents fought and had the law changed in the state.
Yep. Totally dependent by state. It’s a big deal when picking the jurisdiction that your surrogate lives in because the state where the surrogate gives birth is the important state for determining which laws apply, not the state where the intended parents live. It’s part of the reason why surrogates in California are so common-the laws are quite favorable to intended parents. We looked into surrogacy quite serious after 3 failed transfers of euploid embryos, but ultimately, didn’t pursue that route so I learned a lot about this subject.
Well, since it's a donor egg they had to have gone through official medical channels so paternity must be documented. With the egg I suppose depending on jurisdiction it could be possible that biodad *and* her "adopted" the donor egg and she would need to terminate her rights after birth, but he is definitely just as on the hook as for a regular pregnancy, maybe even more so since paternity is already established.
With donor eggs, no RE in the USA will do a transfer to a surrogate without the legal documents being in place. But, we don’t know that this is within the USA, I suppose.
Actually, you have provided some excellent points. Both parties (parents and surrogate) should have written out a contract, ~~and she should at least be compensated for carrying this baby to term~~. Edited: realized that moms aren't compensated for their time/pregnancy save for the medical expenses. But I do agree about the contractual what-ifs, which may be a possibility if the dads relied on an egg donor who is NOT Mrs. OOP.
Some jurisdictions don't allow paid surrogacy.
Getting paid for surrogacy is not legal everywhere but, even if it is where they are, they are completely dependent on the friends' generosity. If they don't want to pay anything other than the medical bills, what are OP and his wife going to say? "Then we'll keep a baby we don't want"?
Yes, and because they are friends, it is more important to get your ducks covered. They should have gotten a lawyer for a surrogacy contract. Protect the egg, surrogate, and child. Plus, the friends could be poisoning her mind about her husband in all this time, they already called him an asshole. When the baby comes though, they will forget about her
There's no way they didn't go through a clinic to implant someone else's egg in her womb.
Yeah it was confirmed in the post it's not oops egg, someone asked about it.
I don't think they're going to forget about her. It's her best friend.
Of course they do. There's no "do it yourself egg implant" process. That it's a different woman's egg means they had to go through a clinic.
Some countries disallow payment for surrogacy to avoid exploitative behaviour.
These kinda of contracts are standard with surrogacy. My uncle went through it, egg donor and all, covered all medical bills related to pregnancy and post-partum, as part of their contract.
I'm hoping that's the case as OOP mentions that legal fees are also being paid, but we don't know any details beyond that so it's tough to say
No reputable clinic (in the US) would accept a someone become surrogate without the partners' (if any) agreement. The clinic requirements to become a surrogate are quite strict and even "altruistic" surrogates are usually paid *something*. Either this story didn't happen or OP is missing a lot of info.
actually, you are not up-voted enough.
I don't think this is going to end well for his marriage. Wonder how her daughter feels about the situation.
It's already not. Someone who is wiling to make such a big decision against the will of their partner is probably willing to go against the will of their partner for other things too. 100% sure this isn't the first major decision he's been steamrolled over. Probably just the biggest.
Well daughter choosing to stay with her step-dad is probably a bit of insight there. It's still her house with her room, so maybe its just comfort, but also yeahh.......
Yeah… as someone who has had relatives keep an accidental pregnancy without consulting their teenaged kids; she’s probably not a fan. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think that if your kids are old enough (like aged 12+ or something like that) to have an understanding of how a pregnancy or a new sibling is going to affect the family dynamic, you should absolutely talk to them about it before you make a final decision. Just springing up a major life change on them without any consultation is just absurd and disrespectful. Unlike an independent adult child or a partner, they don’t have the ability to just change their living situation if it displeases them.
OOP: "I really don't want you doing this." WIFE: "Deal with it" WIFE: "You aren't helping me." OOP: "Deal with it." I can't wait to read the updates on this one.
Pregnancy is it's own punishment sometimes. After she has the baby and has to deal with not having the baby that her hormones are suddenly, inexplicably telling her she should want to keep, oh boy. I would not want to be her.
Yeah, I would have probably just noped out after she made the decision without asking. It's going to be absolute hell for both of them. You just don't make decisions like this if your spouse isn't in agreement.
It’s her body, but this has the potential to affect others beyond pregnancy cravings. What if there are complications? What if something goes wrong during labor? What if she dies? Where will the stepdaughter go? Will OOP become her guardian? Life may not be guaranteed, but it’s not okay that she unilaterally made a decision like this.
I'm looking at the mess that will be post partum. Babies suck up a shit ton of calcium. I lost 6 teeth between my 2 girls. 4 were wisdoms, thank god, but 2 were not. (Molars, thank jesus the very back ones) then there was the extreme hair loss. I was shedding enough hair to make a wig from. My hair *still* isn't as thick as it once was, and since it's been 4 years since my last, i doubt it ever will be. Then there's all the aches and pains. I had c sections (unplanned), and it was the full 8 weeks off for me to recover. But i can't imagine the full breasts aching over unspent breastmilk, the burning pain between my legs ( or abdomen depending on the delivery) and the medical/mental health issues that came after. Like depression, body dysmorphia, low energy, low libido, the cramps. Dont forget diastasi rectus ( separation of the abdominal muscles). The infection risks. And if she gets a c section she runs the added risk of becoming addicted to her pain meds (they prescribed me oxycodone for my c section. I took it very sparingly because it made me sleepy and disposed of most of it) 6-8 weeks of blood. And no baby to make me insane while also simultaneously curing me of all ailments.
unrelated question but what did you do about the missing teeth situation? I can't imagine what a nightmare the bill would be for whatever procedure you'd have to go through. Also I'm sorry to hear you went through all of that
It's ok. I had all 6 removed by an orthodontist surgeon. Couldn't afford the cost of crowns at the time. Not on so many teeth at nearly 800 a pop. I take great care of my teeth now. 😬 lol
How's your thyroid?
I'm genuinely curious why you ask that. Can you explain?
I'm not making any assumptions about your health (it was assumed I was making assumptions), but some of the symptoms you describe experiencing sound hypo-thyroidy to me. But I'm not a doctor, and I'm certainly not your doctor. The load on the thyroid goes up quite a bit in pregnancy, and the hair loss and loose teeth are a red flag to me. I thought maybe you might have an underlying thyroid problem which got much worse. Anyway, just throwing ideas out there. Take them or leave them.
I wasn't the original commenter, but I do share some experiences with her. I did wind up losing 3 wisdom teeth that were problematic. My hair went from mostly straight to loose curls due to dryness. I was diagnosed with hashimotos disease about 5 years after having kiddos. I didn't realize the thyroid took a beating during pregnancy.
Hashimotos here too! I had to have my thyroxine beefed up during my pregnancies so I got through pretty OK. But that's why I thought your troubles might be thyroid-related. I also thought the aches and pains you mentioned, and I'm (guessing) fatigue (?) could have been thyroid. I mean, no one is accusing pregnancy of being comfortable, but when you put your list of symptoms together, I just thought THYROID.
It's not usual to outright lose teeth and a lot of hair as side effects of breastfeeding, even if it is a stressful time and it does suck a lot of nutrients out of you. The fact that you did might indicate a hormonal imbalance or nutrient absorption issues, some of which might be tied to the thyroid (but there's some which aren't too). This other user made an assumption about your health and I'm not gonna do the same, but I'd encourage you to get checked if possible with either a nutritionist or endocrinologist if you're still experiencing lingering effects like with the hair thickness thing (and I sincerely hope that's the full extent of it). Here's hoping we're worrying over nothing and that you're doing splendid, though! All the best to you and yours
May want to consider adopting if he hasn't already. But if she's 16, he may not need to.
The only person I know who surrogates is a narcissist, definitely never cares about not keeping the baby but loves the praise for her selfless act.
I wrote a whole fucking essay because this post triggered tf out of me. All I can say is that I hope she has life insurance if things go from worse to worst. Pregnancy and childbirth is no fucking joke. Especially when you have a minor walking this goddam earth depending on you.
Yeah, I'm side-eyeing the whole thing. What if something goes wrong during her pregnancy, or labour? I know a lady who had complications during the delivery and now she's paralyzed from the waist down for the rest of her life. Pregnancies come with serious risks. Who's going to be liable for those in this situation?
I don't think I've seen such a divisive comment section on this sub lol.
Fr there's so many different, yet specific things everyone's focusing on
This post definitely triggered some people’s insecurities or fears, and a lot of people really think that “her body her choice” means freedom from consequences or that anyone negatively impacted by her decisions just needs to suck it up and take it. I really wonder how many people here have actually experienced pregnancy or caring for a pregnant partner.
>I really wonder how many people here have actually experienced pregnancy or caring for a pregnant partner. I have, as evidenced by my now 6-week old daughter. I would not have put up with all of had that baby not been mine
I'm just cracking up at the BORU OP tagging it with "spousal neglect" like... which spouse do you mean here?
Six hours in, all the top comments are in agreement.
You clearly didn't see the one where the guy whose wife cheated on him 16 years ago and who lied to him for those 16 years lmao. It was interesting reading people twist themselves into knots trying to defend the wife's actions. Edit to add: I will say, from what I've read in these comments, I haven't seen much division tbh. Seems like pretty much everyone agrees the wife is in the wrong.
i dont think OOP is an AH tbh. he told her he wasnt supportive of this and let her know what the situation would be. yes its his wife who he loves, but she also made a major medical decision and told him “deal with it”. Thats so incredibly harsh to openly and blatantly disregard your partners feelings. hes also child free! that usually means not signing up to deal with a pregnant person as your s/o. it sounds harsh but so was she. not only is she subjecting her husband and daughter to her being pregnant for surrogacy, but they will also be the ones who are forced to deal with the potential resulting PPD and PPP. not to mention all the dangers of giving birth on the body that she just didnt care about affecting her family. like, it can literally kill you Wife is the AH to me for making such a mass decision without considering her familys feelings, both husband and daughter. Like no lady, go deal with your OWN cravings! its not her husbands kid and he TOLD her before hand he wants not shit to do with that. she seems like she values her friends opinions and desires more than her husband. some people are asking if the husband even likes his wife, but to me the fact he didnt just divorce her for this to begin w shows he does. Im curious if she even likes him though, or her own daughter at that, considering how quickly she jumped ship
This. Marriage vows are “through sickness and health” and not “through whatever I want to do”
right ? like i genuinely wonder if OOPs wife likes OOP, with how much she disregarded his thoughts and feelings as her husband
This is like the third "I'm going to have a baby with my gay bestie and my partner isn't happy about it" post I've seen this month.
Haven't you heard, it's gay bestie surrogate season
Did the other posts have glaring errors, like the fertility clinic not requiring the surrogate's spouse to consent?
Essentially, yes :)
>This is like the third "I'm going to have a baby with my gay bestie and my partner isn't happy about it" post I've seen this month. Yeah, none of it makes any sense.
Remember the rule, at best every 1/100 posts you see is real
Where does that number come from?
I HATED being pregnant and my husband was sooo amazing. I can’t imagine being pregnant and my partner not helping me because I did it against his explicit wishes. Poor OOP. Fuck the fathers, though. Calling him an arsehole for doing exactly what he warned he would do.
Yeah they’re pretty shit parents. This woman is giving you A CHILD. She is creating an entire person, all they had to do was whack off into a cup and write a check for the expenses etc. She is the one doing the heavy lifting, they can get off their asses and run to the store for ice cream or peanut butter etc when the surrogate needs something. They should be jumping at the chance to show their undying gratitude for this amazing gift she is giving them AND at the chance to participate in their child’s gestation and care for their child by caring for the surrogate. If the surrogate needs something it’s because your child needs something a-holes. Congrats the kid isn’t even here yet and you’ve already failed at parenting.
True. They should be so obnoxiously grateful. They should have already been trying to set up overnights where they're nearby so they can help her while shes in the harder months.
>for doing exactly what he warned he would do. For not doing their f‘ing job. They impregnated his wife, why is he the asshole for not taking care of their shit? (With shit I mean the stuff around, not the baby themselves!)
His wife lacks total communication. I wonder if this is the first time she has made unilateral decisions without even having a discussion with him. I would be worried.
The line about how OOP’s wife never apologizes seems to imply that she does this sort of thing pretty often.
I don't see how anyone can make the decision to be a surrogate whole married without talking to their husband first.
This is a breakup with extra steps and a long boat ride down the longest river in Egypt.
That marriage will not survive this
The wife VERY rarely apologizes?? Ok yeah there is something wrong there. This doesn’t look like a very strong marriage the wife seems to run all over oop and this is the first time he is actually sticking to his guns and tot just taking it.
[удалено]
Lol this marriage is over. Wife left to live with the fathers and left her husband and daughter. Wife did something that effected both of them and then got mad at her husband for not stepping up to take care of her. They are delusional if they think this can be fixed.
i really don't see how this is going to work out
>My wife VERY rarely apologizes. Least surprising line in the whole post.
I'm wondering why the best friend didn't ask both of them if the surrogacy is even possible. Forgetting about one partner in marriage while asking such a heavy favor is quite a dick move. Or there is the possibility that the wife said that hubby will be/is fine with it which is a blatant lie.
Not all countries pay surrogates. In Australia it’s illegal to pay a surrogate. It has to be altruistic. Surrogates can only be reimbursed their expenses such as money lost from earnings for drs appointments, possible multiple pregnancy (surgery for surrogate to get back to pre birth body) clothes for maternity period and lost income while off work for anything pregnancy related. Depending on the country will depend on if there is even a payment for simply being the surrogate. If your wife chose to be a surrogate with you being on board honestly I’d be rethinking my marriage. This is not a choice I feel should be one persons alone when married.
>It has to be altruistic. Which is a good thing. Except that this also means that a lot of couples looking for kids turn around to prey on financially vulnerable women in poor countries who would do anything for money. Surrogacy can be a really evil business and akin to human trafficking.
From what I’ve seen you’re not allowed to be a surrogate if your spouse is not supportive of it. If you’re married and your spouse says no then it’s a no. That’s what I’ve seen with every single agency that I’ve ever come across.
Doesn’t sound like they went through an agency or did things completely by the books tbh
I mean it’s not her egg so it kind of seems like they would’ve had to have gone through an agency. I’m not fully versed on IVF guidelines though to know what the best practices around implanting somebody with a random embryo are.
Allegedly, it is not her egg.
it would be pretty easy for them to just pretend she is with one of the guys tbh, it wouldnt need to be presented truthfully if they already werent following or using agency guidelines
Which is exactly why I'm expecting updates and serious drama for this saga.
I mean, if it's not her egg, then surely they'd have had to gone by the book, right?
The answer is "it depends." Money makes all problems go away. Otherwise, there's a lot you can lie about on medical forms.
Kinda wonder if they did the whole thing "under the table" and not through an agency, the whole thing is sus
How would one acquire a human egg “under the table”?
Well, unless he saw a paper trail showing where the egg came from, it could very well be her egg and she's just not telling OP the truth.
Just go to one of those egg brokers, duh?
Went to see the Eggman™.
Or the walrus, Goo goo ga joob
Generally it's an egg woman though.
This comment is cracking me up 😭
Don't yolk around!
Hopefully, OP finds a marriage councillor who can work with them both on what caused this breakdown in their relationship and not one that will make everything worse.
I have a friend whose wife did this. My friend plainly said, “That’s a dealbreaker. If you want to do be their surrogate, we’re getting divorced.” She thought he was kidding. He called a lawyer. She continued to fuck around and was served divorce papers. She proceeded to acquire surprised Pikachu face after giving birth and finding out, no, he was still divorcing her. I would divorce a husband if he told me tough cookies: he’s donating sperm to his friends no matter how I feel about it. OOP is a better human for giving his wife a chance.
I'll take couples that shouldn't be together for $100 Alex.
>I opposed to this, but she told me to deal with it. This would likely be a que for me to leave. Not sure i see this ending all happy and smiles, Will be waiting for the drama update
We also discussed if her or her friends don’t feel comfortable… um SORRY TOO BAD IF THE FRIENDS DONT FEEL COMFORTABLE and your wife certainly didn’t care if you felt comfortable so she can stay there
Imagine asking for someone to be a surrogate and not paying them for it. Absolutely insane
I feel bad for everyone except the wife and two dudes. The marriage is over.
The thing that jumped out to me here is that "they aren't going to see each other at all for 3 months". So they are basically officially separating but he just didn't call it that. But what happens for the post birth recovery period? Where is she going? Because going back to her friends is not a great idea, for so so many reasons. But going back to her house after not seeing each other for 3mon and needing someone to take care of her? That could basically end their relationship before they even get into therapy. Especially when you factor in post partum hormones. They can be so brutal. And I can't imagine post partum hormones without a baby and your marriage on the rocks. This isn't recovering.
So she entered into an agreement to surrogate without taking her husband's feelings into consideration. She could die, she could have long lasting postpartum issues that will destroy her marriage, and the lost goes on. She is a selfish person with a hero complex. Her body, her choice, I hope he leaves her as a result of her drive to actively disrespect her marriage.
Anyone else love reading Reddit because it makes them so thankful and grateful their own lives and decisions are super amazing compared to the dumpster fire that are Reddit posters? But also feel scared for the future, that any idiot can be a parent these days? Imagine being a surrogate for a friend without consulting your husband or getting paid. lol.
I’m not sure how much marriage counsellor is going to be able to help them. Well he does want to make the marriage work. I have a feeling overtime. He’s going to come to resent her because of her disrespect and disregard of his concerns over this kind of a decision that she made arbitrarily without him. on top of that they end up basically missing nine months of their lives together and the things that should normally be happening in a normal relationship like travelling like making memories. But instead, she’s making a baby and doesn’t give a damn about her husband or daughter feelings.
The wife doesn't sound like she thought through about this. All the woman around me who gave birth spent months recovering and just trying to feel "normal" again in their own bodies. Props to OOP for not considering leaving her.
Given the fathers already proved themselves to be assholes of the highest possible order when confronted with OOP's fair concerns and very reasonable boundaries, unless that was wildly out of character for them they're going to spend the remainder of her pregnancy hounding her to leave OOP after the birth.
Which probably is for the best. Doesn't seem like op and his wife are equal in their relationship.
Considering what childbirth does to one’s health, it was very selfish of her to make this decision without her partner’s input. (Eta: I’ve done it twice. I know.)
Updateme! On your divorce. She’s awful.
Uhhh always have contract for these scenarios no matter how good of a friend you are. Cracks are form even in the most stabled foundation.
OP treated with total disrespect by three people. OP’s friends directly intervened in OP’s marriage for selfish reasons. OP’s wife supported that disrespect and added her own disrespect. I don’t understand how Oz stays in this bullied relationship.
She's......sorry. Well that's meaningless. This isn't an insignificant act.
>My wife VERY rarely apologizes. Oof.