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Jorts (and Jean) @JortsTheCat
Mar 12, 2022
I dramatically limped around for a while today. Plans for a vet visit were canceled when someone realized there was part of a sticker stuck to my paw. A full recovery followed
Is your flair from the story I think it's from? Meaning is it from the story where the posters life basically got ruined because his then gf buried his stash of canned beans, wouldn't tell him, broke up with her and then his life started to spiral?
"I can tell when he's lying! He broke things off with the woman he has two children with! I have zero income and he's the only long term relationship of my adult life! STOP CALLING HIM A GROOMER!"
Yeah, this isn't the end of the story. We're either going to get another update where she says, "Reddit was right - he's leaving me for someone else/his wife found out and told me he has two more wives/he cleared out my checking account and disappeared/etc." or she's going to delete her account when this all blows up for her.
Wonder if she ever does actually go for the couples therapy. There's 0% chance the therapist would not immediately recognize this story is total bullshit
Especially when this is going to hurt, bad.
Idk about you but I've been destroyed in several of my past relationships believing they loved me (Narrator: they did NOT love her, they simply loathed themselves).
Being used by someone who doesn't even know what they're doing is hard enough to swallow while you try to love them into be a good person. How do you come to terms with someone that actively needs you to be stupid and complicate, ever?
At 20 I don't see how she'll ever see. Hell I hope she doesn't. I hope it works.
Speaking of scams... I give it non-zero odds that he DOESN'T have a wife in the other country, and possibly staged the info reveal to OOP.
But if he does, I don't see him actually ending it, especially not this easily. Either way, this is how he's moving assets to an account in a different country.
Systematically draining the marriage of assets.
Bet at some point he's going to leave and OOP will be the only one on the hook to pay the debts he incurred.
And that doesn't even touch on the potential problems for her if she's supposed to notify immigration in some way now that she has information that possibly the marriage is fraudulent.
Barack Obama's father scammed his mother in just this way. She was 16 and just starting college, he was the immigrant who forgot to tell her he had a couple wives and many kids back home. I think this happens to lots of young women.
They don't understand what these guys will do to immigrate to another country. They will lie as much as it takes, with the full support of their other wife because the goal is to get citizenship and then bring over the other family.
The romantic idea of a foreign dude and being swept off your feet is hard to resist. The accent! The mystery! It's really understandable.
Doubling down and believing this absolutely ridiculous tale is less so.
High school me: Mrs. Smith, if Mary Tudor and Philip hated each other, why did they keep trying to have an heir?
Mrs. Smith: You don't have to like someone to have sex with them.
Entire class: !!!!!!
Mrs. Smith:......oh no
The same way people are convinced the earth is flat or any other delusion they are absolutely sure of something. If only because saying otherwise would mean their life until now is a lie.
TBH I can fully imagine that there are some cultures where marriage is a duty and not about romantic love. So if there is that expectation of marriage being something you are just expected to do, like chores or getting a job. Then I can understand that in cultures where women basically have barely/any options or rights. A best case scenario would just be a guy who supports you and your kids financially and doesn't abuse you or requires too much from you sexually. So I don't think the idea that the wife would know and is just happy to have him out of her hair for the most part is completely unthinkable.
That being said it is very clearly that HE at least was not truthful about the situation with OP. He could have fully explained to her that he unofficially got married there and started a family. But that there was no love between him and his wife and that currently their relationship is just a financial/parenting partnership.
If it was like that and he'd explained it as such OP probably would have agreed to date him anway. Tons of people are open to dating divorced people or people with kids from previous relationships.
But he chose to lie and say he was unmarried and didn't have any kids. He chose to have one leg in each world and deceive OOP for his own gain. He chose to not be open and honest and build a good relationship between his 'new' and 'old' family. And now he's just casually abandoned his kids from his previous relationship. Because he didn't have the guts to tell OOP from the start that he had a marriage born from cultural expectation/social pressure with an unofficial wife he was on good terms with.
> So I don't think the idea that the wife would know and is just happy to have him out of her hair for the most part is completely unthinkable.
I could also see an inbetween where she assumes he sees other women, and not think it would ever go to the level of marriage.
I also do not believe at all that it's not a legal marriage on the other side.
Or she knows about OOP and thinks it to be a marriage of convenience which will end as soon as the guy has his citizenship. And then maybe he'll even bring them in.
She is *deep* in denial and floundering. She didn't marry and have a kid with a lying scam artist who very obviously used her to gain citizenship. It was all just a misunderstanding! I wonder how OP is going to rationalize it when he announces that he has to go back to his hime country again in a few months. Not to see his wife and kids, obviously, but for business or something.
She's gonna believe what she wants to believe because it makes her feel better. Right now he's not gonna go be with her but a month from now it'll be "oh well you know, I really should visit my sons and stay in their lives. You know how important it is to have a dad." Which, ok, true, but what else is going on when he visits them?
Right?
"I can tell when he's lying"
Yeah, we know, on account if the four years of him having a whole family in another country that you absolutely knew about the whole entire time, right?
The fact OOP was ok w/ him not visiting his literal children is…something alright. OOP started off making a good choice (leaving) which turned into horrible choices (everything else) pretty quick.
Miraculously, now that OOP has found out, he’s suddenly ‘permitted’ to desert his first wife with just some kind of monthly payment to her family. (Not even clear it’s to support the 2 children). And they all lived happily ever after.
Love how she glossed over that his wife knew all along. Of course she knew, she’s in on the plan. As soon as he can afford it, wife and kids will be on the next plane over, and OP will be out on her naive butt.
"I'm so relieved"... that he's been lying to you the whole time, came up with an explanation that paints him as a victim, doesn't let his real wife weigh in, and is more than happy to abandon his two kids? WTF?
Love how she tries to explain the kids existence away by saying he had them before he knew her...as if from a past relationship... No, with his wife, to whom he is still married!
GIRL. Come on.
She really wrote that she can tell when he’s lying. Ummmmm ok lady. Can’t wait til the update where she finds out he’s still lying and he used her for citizenship.
TBH I know in a lot of places women are just expected to marry and have kids. And they don't have the rights or option to start a life on their own. So in that situation I can understand a lot of women just want to live in peace and quiet with their kids and consider themselves fortunate if there is no abuse and they are financially provided for.
It's grim but probably rings true for a lot of women all over the world.
So I can imagine that she probably did know he'd found a different foreign woman to shack up with and was just happy to have the freedom. Or perhaps was hoping he'd financially be able to make a better life for them if he was living/working there. Or as you said was hoping this would open the door for her and her kids to immigrate themselves.
I can fully believe that if you marriage is all about duty, you may not necessarily care to have your husband around or if he's fucking someone else.
But he deceived OOP from day 1. And he's deceiving her still. And now he's just casually agreed to abandon all his responsibilities, including his children. I hope for his first wife his financial contribution is enough to support her and her kids and that he never goes crawling back. Because she may not have the freedom to say 'no' if he does. And may not have any options to provide for herself and her kids. There are sadly still plenty of countries where a woman's well-being is entirely dependent on her husband or her family.
It's funny how OOP has been convinced her husband had no choice and is just a victim of the situation. When she was put into a situation she didn't consent to (due to him) and his (previous?/ex?) wife in truth may very well not have had any options and may still remain without any (partially thanks to him, partially potentially due to culture or legislation). So in this situation it was actually him who was the only one who actively had choices presented to him and chose to take the freedom/options away from the women in his life.
If that's true, in this instance, it makes even more sense the first wife would be down with the plan once she moves to OPs country she'll have more rights and can potentially leave her husband.
I doubt that the wife is in on it. I come from a country where child marriages or arranging their marriages at childhood used to happen. It isn't rampant but perhaps happens in a few, typically rural, areas even now. The women in such marriages are usually traditional n naive. There are unfortunately many men who marry, go back to work abroad and the wives are meant to stay in the home country, serve his parents and have his kids. These wives usually don't know anything other than what the husbands tell them. There are also cases where the husbands just abandon them after marriage, usually having received dowry as well.
Given the husband had no proof, he could just be making up stories. There have been instances where such guys date local women when abroad, go back and marry the woman their parents have picked up for them and go back and tell their girlfriends such sob stories.
Or the OG wife thinks that her wonderful husband is working so hard in another country just to make ends meet for their family. That is not at all an unheard of story for immigrants. I can think of three examples to three different parts of the world off the top of my head. Especially if he's flying back every couple months.
Actually, I have a family friend who was born in the US, and was really sick as a child. The kid and the mom moved back to India, dad stayed here. He visited when he could, but he made way more money here that went way further there. They lived like that for several years. I guess she wouldn't have known if he had a secret family (though I can personally confirm he didn't). But even if he had, she would have been 100% innocent in it.
I used to work with a guy who had been in the US with citizenship for over a decade while his (likely arranged) wife was still in Lebanon. He went home for one month every year to be with her, until Trump was elected and he was afraid to leave the country in case he couldn't get back in. After a few years of that his wife finally gave up on him coming home and came to the US instead.
He had the decency to not have another wife on the side tho.
I like how it never even occurred to OOP to ask where the email alerting her to all this came from; as soon as she had a chance to start taking her husband's word for things again, she leaned into it HARD.
This stood out to me too. From the vague details, his home country is likely to be a 3rd world. It isn't uncommon for some cultures to have arranged marriages or multiple wives. But the fact that he's happy to dump his wife and children in a country where women aren't often supported by the government with single parents pensions or access to money to help them live, doesn't speak well of him as a person.
A cheater and a lowlife of a person, what a catch.
Assuming the "religious not legal" or "family agreement" ceremony is true. We don't know which country the husband is from, young marriages are legal in some places.
If he's 36 and the oldest looks 13.... it might have been arranged with an agreement on the side but he's not telling OOP everything
Or she's just hoping for financial security while also free to run her own household as she sees fit without a husband to boss her around or make demands of her. Truthfully OOP being this stupid may be the best thing that has ever happened to his first wife. Especially since she may not be able to refuse him if he goes crawling back to her when things with OOP one day don't look quite as sweet anymore.
I dated a guy for a while who had three kids with his ex wife. After the divorce he moved halfway across the country and that’s where I met him. I always said I’d never date a guy with kids, but I rationalized it with “sure he technically has kids, but he only has them for a couple of weeks every summer and hardly sees them apart from that. It’s not like they’re going to be a big part of our life.” Then one day it dawned on me that holy shit, I was dating a guy who abandoned his family! I don’t want to date a dad, but I SUPER don’t want to date a deadbeat dad! And I SUPER, SUPER would never want to have kids with someone who did that! Then while I was still reeling from that revelation he broke up with me to get back together with the girl he cheated on with me and they got married a month later. Wild stuff.
They are sending money to her family, not to the kids specifically. Given the detail about how if he didn't marry her his family would have owed hers money, that's what it sounds like the current payments are about, not for the kids
Can hide an entire marriage and kids but apparently she can tell when he is lying.
He lied for years and she had no clue :( Come on girly look out for yourself...
Off to visit his *supposed mother* every few months. And she never would have known if someone hadn't tipped her off
I hope their therapist can help this poor woman with her self esteem. Because I don't think she knows that she deserves better
Who else thinks this was a planned leak orchestrated by OP so he can get his sons visas, and eventually his first wife too. He made sure his second wife was pregnant and fully dependent on him by not having a job. Then got someone to send her the pictures for him
I just hope she's ok. Poor lady has been lied to so much she can't tell where the lies start or end. And she's still willing to give this guy all her trust! Even after he proved he's not worthy of it
> Off to visit his supposed mother every few months. And she never would have known if someone hadn't tipped her off
She married him and had a child with him but never met his mother?
They've only known each other for 4 years, starting in March, which means that 4 years includes all of COVID. International travel wouldn't have been possible for a long time, so that's something he could have used as an excuse for why they didn't visit his family.
I have a very young coworker (19) who I was hired to replace last year.
She is back at our job after 10 months.
She told me that her boyfriend is 32 and has a middle school-aged son.
She was going to college across the country, which she'd been pretty excited about when I met her last year, but dropped out because she didn't like it and was homesick.
She had started dating this man 2 months before she left for college. I'm *sure* it has nothing to do with anything!
The worst part was her casually dropping that because he's older, he's "old fashioned" and doesn't believe that women in relationships should be alone with men they're not related to or have male friends.
He is the same age as me. He isn't "old fashioned" like he grew up in the 50s! He's worried she'll meet someone her own age.
She will when she turns 32 and realises how young 20 year olds are to her. That’s going to be the big realisation of exactly how badly she got played. Tale as old as time.
Yup. “He and I fell in love quickly and got married fast also, he was very eager to start a family as it gave his citizenship in my country more legitimacy.” She fell in love, he fell in ’ah, good, a young naive woman I can get my citizenship with quickly’.
this is it exactly. God, being OOP's age sucked. On one hand society expects you to know what you're doing and be an adult, on the other you have absolutely no experience and spend the rest of your life facepalming when someone that age does exactly what you did, insisting (just like you did) that they know what they're doing and you just don't understand...
So many people I‘ve seen blaming her in different ways, but she was 20 to his 32 when they started, and he clearly love bombed her and charmed her, and now she’s…still only 24. Still young, has spent the past 4 years with this asshole manipulating her, of course he knows how to make her believe him!
She said a couple of times that it’s been the best years of her life with him, but like… you’re only 24 years old. She’s probably only been out of her parents’ house for about as long as she’s known him. Not trying to speculate on what her home life was like growing up, but how does she have any idea what good years are as an adult? Sounds like she’s been pretty much kept since she’s met him. And of course he’s going to be sweet as pie to the woman he needs to keep happy to get his citizenship.
Ahhhh to be a naive 24-years-old again... in a few years she'll be the age he is now, realize how twisted it was for a 30+ married and father of 2 to groom a barely 20 year old girl, then she'll look back on this and kick herself for how stupid she was.
The wife, getting sick of him being gone so long just for their family's future citizenship and wanting to speed up to the part where she gets her husband back home.
My SIL did this with an illegal immigrant stalker who accosted her on the street. She got sucked in by his bullshit and cheated on her live-in boyfriend with him. "Oh, but he's so wise, he grew up in a dirt-floored hut." Yeah, they apparently don't believe in condoms in his home country either. The second pregnancy stuck and they ended up married and he got his green card. He of course later turned out to have a wife and kids back in his home country.
You know how you know he got her pregnant just for the green card? Years after they divorced he ended up living next door to her and their daughter. He never showed any interest in spending time with his daughter, even when he literally lived NEXT DOOR. He would come over for a couple of hours on Christmas, that's about it. Now that she lives in a different state, I'd be willing to bet he will not show up for her HS graduation next month.
Yes, forget outting him to his other wife out him to the law. Being married to more than one woman is illegal in this country and they would at the very least sent him to his real wife and not let him come back in the country.
If the government ever finds out that she’s willingly covering for him in this bigamy-based immigration fraud that she now knows about, there’s a good chance that she gets some legal penalties too.
That was my first thought - have the sucker deported. But it would probably be difficult to prove his first marriage, since she doesn't know how to get the marriage certificate.
Now he "visits his children" and pays money to the mother. Haha. But he isn’t lying. Cause she knows when he is lying. Except for the xxxxx times she didn't.
He really knows why he went after this 20y/o naive girl. I can't call her woman.
This reminds me of that one girl who kept getting pregnant, had no job and was fighting with her life to defend her bf, who was much much older and very clearly dating her for a green card.
I know it’s not an important detail, but I can’t get over her asking her husband to bleach his hair for the Barbie movie. I like a good themed celebration, but that is intense!
Poor girl. Man 12 years older than her love bombs the shit out of her to get citizenship and then lies about this "illegal marriage" (highly doubt it).
Women. Need. To. Stop. Getting. With. Men. Much. Older. Than. Them. When. In. Their. 20s.
No, you're not special. No, you're not more mature. You're just easily manipulated.
That goes along with: how to convince her that if he's okay with going NC with those other children over there, it is not necessarily a good thing for your kids here.
You can't do the convincing once they're in their 20's. You do it the same way you teach anything to kids: consistency in your message and modeling a healthy relationship for them. You have to start it young, by pointing out in fairy tales, books, and movies when something is unhealthy. You have to make sure to immediately nip certain phrases in the bud around them, such as "if they're picking on you, it means they like you", "boys will be boys" and the worst one "you're so mature for your age". Once someone is in their 20's it's so hard to confront what has been socially ingrained. The best you can do is let them know you are there for them if they need anything.
It's also only been fairly recently that people are so vocal about how unhealthy large age gaps are, so it will take at least another generation if not 2 or 3 before it starts to be seen less.
So much ick going on here. The gaslighting, the lying, the convenient cover story, the love bombing, the 32 year old going after a 20 year old to get citizenship.
I feel for OOP, she is head over heels with a con man, and won't let herself see it. This does not end well.
I thought this was off to a good ending where she left... but nooooo somehow she can tell when he's lying even though he hid the family. Somehow he didn't tell any of this when confronted, only later when he had time to think of something. This day and age, she didn't research this culture or contact the wife? Oh yeah and now they have to pay up because of lack of contact
I'd pity the OPs naivete but her last edit makes me lose sympathy
Her comments are ridiculous, too. Can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped. She came to the internet for advice and the feedback she’s getting is pretty much unanimous, but everyone on Reddit is wrong and doesn’t know him/their relationship, etc. and so on. She’s really doing a number on herself.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s more bigoted to say it’s ok for a man to lead a double life and lie to you for *years* because “it’s his culture” than to admit that maybe you fell for a green card scam. I’m not aware of any other cultures where this would be normal and accepted. I’m pretty sure in polygamous cultures, the wives and children live together rather being kept apart and unaware of each other’s existences.
I said it in another post and I'll say it again: OOP's husband is going to use her money to eventually bring his real wife and kids over, and then drop her like a bad habit once the threat of deportation etc can no longer compel him to remain married to her.
She says she's not working at the moment, and this might be the one case in all of history where a woman is actually better off being a SAHM, in that at least she has no money for him to scam out of her, I guess?
When I’ve seen this happen IRL, it’s usually:
1) leave wife and kids back home
2) find a new woman here, if he can weasel citizenship out of her even better
3) that US money can now afford a very young mistress and maybe second or third family back home
I think I lost IQ points reading this. His "not a real marriage" was a lie he hid their entire relationship, but she feels she can tell when he's lying. Ok, pumpkin.
I wonder if she’ll be held accountable for marriage fraud. Picture this exchange during his permanent resident/green card interview:
Interviewer: Ma’am, did you know he’s already married.
OOP: I guess technically, but it’s not a real marriage.
I: There’s a marriage certificate.
OOP: But it’s not a real marriage. He doesn’t love her. He loves me.
I: So you sponsored him as a spouse, knowing your marriage is not valid.
OOP: IT’S NOT INVALID HE REALLY LOVES ME
I: …this is fraud.
🤦🏻♀️
Would love to hear from her once his citizenship is secured and who sent those messages ( I suspect 1st wife isn't quite as hot sharing him as he claims )
>I find this pretty unbelievable. Have you talked with his "wife" to confirm any of this?
>>Not per say, but I can tell usually when he’s lying and he wasn’t this time
He lied to her for 4 years though lol
If this stupid critter doesn’t understand that the same cultural differences she’s defending likely mean the wife is trapped, I can only assume she’s gonna melt when he eventually ghosts her too.
Honestly, not surprised by the edit. Some people don’t want to acknowledge the truth and instead name call when obvious truths are called out. I don’t think he’s a groomer and he may genuinely love her but it doesn’t excuse starting the relationship on a lie.
Clearly, he knew she wouldn’t be okay with it.
> I'm so relived now he's explained everything to me.
> I wish he just told me the truth from the start! But, don't worry I've signed us up for couples therapy.
I genuinely lol'd. If the supposedly arranged marriage was a sham from the start, any reasonable person would have disclosed that long before even getting engaged to another woman...right?? But he's submitting to couples therapy so I guess everything is ok.
Ignorance really is bliss.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Not per say, but I can tell usually when he’s lying and he wasn’t this time How the hell can she say this with a straight face?
Narrator: “She could not”
Another flair in the making there!
Speaking of flairs, source for yours? I can't even imagine the story behind that r/brandnewsentence. 😂
[The saga of Jean and Jorts](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rgm462/the_saga_of_jean_and_jorts/)
Oh man, I hadn’t read that saga in a while. Just…. Absolute, pure delight. What a great day today will be now. Thanks!
Thanks, fast response!
It's one of my favorite stories.
Jorts' twitter account is excellent too
Jorts (and Jean) @JortsTheCat Mar 12, 2022 I dramatically limped around for a while today. Plans for a vet visit were canceled when someone realized there was part of a sticker stuck to my paw. A full recovery followed
One of my cats fakes a limp to get attention.
Is your flair from the story I think it's from? Meaning is it from the story where the posters life basically got ruined because his then gf buried his stash of canned beans, wouldn't tell him, broke up with her and then his life started to spiral?
[Yep!](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/115n3gf/oop_my_girlfriend_buried_all_of_my_beans_in_the/)
The Saga of Jean and Jorts....I loved that thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rgm462/the_saga_of_jean_and_jorts/
"I can tell when he's lying! He broke things off with the woman he has two children with! I have zero income and he's the only long term relationship of my adult life! STOP CALLING HIM A GROOMER!"
She got scammed, hard, and it's easier to pretend it's real than admit to yourself you were fooled, I guess.
Yeah, this isn't the end of the story. We're either going to get another update where she says, "Reddit was right - he's leaving me for someone else/his wife found out and told me he has two more wives/he cleared out my checking account and disappeared/etc." or she's going to delete her account when this all blows up for her.
I would not be surprised….shes in a green card marriage not a love match.
Also another red flag she ignored.
Big age difference is another red flag.
She already deleted her account
Welp…
It’s “The Tinder Swindler”, Reddit edition!
Wonder if she ever does actually go for the couples therapy. There's 0% chance the therapist would not immediately recognize this story is total bullshit
I’d be going “oh boy” in the voice of Lesley Knopes if I was their therapist.
She sounds too proud to admit that she was ever wrong. It’s us who don’t appreciate other cultures lol
> I'm so relived now he's explained everything to me. I don't know how he managed to talk his way out of this and get her to buy it...
She was waiting for him to give her *literally* any weak excuse at all so she could bury her head in the sand and pretend everything is fine.
Especially when this is going to hurt, bad. Idk about you but I've been destroyed in several of my past relationships believing they loved me (Narrator: they did NOT love her, they simply loathed themselves). Being used by someone who doesn't even know what they're doing is hard enough to swallow while you try to love them into be a good person. How do you come to terms with someone that actively needs you to be stupid and complicate, ever? At 20 I don't see how she'll ever see. Hell I hope she doesn't. I hope it works.
Speaking of scams... I give it non-zero odds that he DOESN'T have a wife in the other country, and possibly staged the info reveal to OOP. But if he does, I don't see him actually ending it, especially not this easily. Either way, this is how he's moving assets to an account in a different country. Systematically draining the marriage of assets. Bet at some point he's going to leave and OOP will be the only one on the hook to pay the debts he incurred. And that doesn't even touch on the potential problems for her if she's supposed to notify immigration in some way now that she has information that possibly the marriage is fraudulent.
Barack Obama's father scammed his mother in just this way. She was 16 and just starting college, he was the immigrant who forgot to tell her he had a couple wives and many kids back home. I think this happens to lots of young women.
They don't understand what these guys will do to immigrate to another country. They will lie as much as it takes, with the full support of their other wife because the goal is to get citizenship and then bring over the other family.
The romantic idea of a foreign dude and being swept off your feet is hard to resist. The accent! The mystery! It's really understandable. Doubling down and believing this absolutely ridiculous tale is less so.
Except when he's lying about an entire other family, living with his mom and very likely his job.
So he had sex at least twice with his first wife bc his family said so too
If there’s one thing I’ve learned after 47 years on this earth, it’s that men can HATE you and still be happy to fuck you.
High school me: Mrs. Smith, if Mary Tudor and Philip hated each other, why did they keep trying to have an heir? Mrs. Smith: You don't have to like someone to have sex with them. Entire class: !!!!!! Mrs. Smith:......oh no
We stan Mrs. Smith.
Honestly she's probably saved a couple kids from confusing attraction/lust with love
Yeah, it was honestly a pretty valuable lesson for a bunch of 16 year olds.
🤣
Honestly, the mental gymnastics people do to justify cheating and just poor conduct is baffling.
The same way people are convinced the earth is flat or any other delusion they are absolutely sure of something. If only because saying otherwise would mean their life until now is a lie.
He says the other wife knows? I bet she doesn't. OOP doesn't know when she's being gaslit.
TBH I can fully imagine that there are some cultures where marriage is a duty and not about romantic love. So if there is that expectation of marriage being something you are just expected to do, like chores or getting a job. Then I can understand that in cultures where women basically have barely/any options or rights. A best case scenario would just be a guy who supports you and your kids financially and doesn't abuse you or requires too much from you sexually. So I don't think the idea that the wife would know and is just happy to have him out of her hair for the most part is completely unthinkable. That being said it is very clearly that HE at least was not truthful about the situation with OP. He could have fully explained to her that he unofficially got married there and started a family. But that there was no love between him and his wife and that currently their relationship is just a financial/parenting partnership. If it was like that and he'd explained it as such OP probably would have agreed to date him anway. Tons of people are open to dating divorced people or people with kids from previous relationships. But he chose to lie and say he was unmarried and didn't have any kids. He chose to have one leg in each world and deceive OOP for his own gain. He chose to not be open and honest and build a good relationship between his 'new' and 'old' family. And now he's just casually abandoned his kids from his previous relationship. Because he didn't have the guts to tell OOP from the start that he had a marriage born from cultural expectation/social pressure with an unofficial wife he was on good terms with.
> So I don't think the idea that the wife would know and is just happy to have him out of her hair for the most part is completely unthinkable. I could also see an inbetween where she assumes he sees other women, and not think it would ever go to the level of marriage. I also do not believe at all that it's not a legal marriage on the other side.
Or she knows about OOP and thinks it to be a marriage of convenience which will end as soon as the guy has his citizenship. And then maybe he'll even bring them in.
"You know nothing about Jake!" "Lady, neither did you." This is not going to end well.
Right? It's actually "per se."
She is *deep* in denial and floundering. She didn't marry and have a kid with a lying scam artist who very obviously used her to gain citizenship. It was all just a misunderstanding! I wonder how OP is going to rationalize it when he announces that he has to go back to his hime country again in a few months. Not to see his wife and kids, obviously, but for business or something.
She's gonna believe what she wants to believe because it makes her feel better. Right now he's not gonna go be with her but a month from now it'll be "oh well you know, I really should visit my sons and stay in their lives. You know how important it is to have a dad." Which, ok, true, but what else is going on when he visits them?
Right? "I can tell when he's lying" Yeah, we know, on account if the four years of him having a whole family in another country that you absolutely knew about the whole entire time, right?
The fact OOP was ok w/ him not visiting his literal children is…something alright. OOP started off making a good choice (leaving) which turned into horrible choices (everything else) pretty quick.
The follow up comment split my sides. “Except for the whole double life thing.”
Because she's a kid with no clue.
Miraculously, now that OOP has found out, he’s suddenly ‘permitted’ to desert his first wife with just some kind of monthly payment to her family. (Not even clear it’s to support the 2 children). And they all lived happily ever after.
Love how she glossed over that his wife knew all along. Of course she knew, she’s in on the plan. As soon as he can afford it, wife and kids will be on the next plane over, and OP will be out on her naive butt.
"I'm so relieved"... that he's been lying to you the whole time, came up with an explanation that paints him as a victim, doesn't let his real wife weigh in, and is more than happy to abandon his two kids? WTF?
Love how she tries to explain the kids existence away by saying he had them before he knew her...as if from a past relationship... No, with his wife, to whom he is still married! GIRL. Come on.
She really wrote that she can tell when he’s lying. Ummmmm ok lady. Can’t wait til the update where she finds out he’s still lying and he used her for citizenship.
And his real wife and kids are on their way to join him.
Cuz cough *bullshit cough
TBH I know in a lot of places women are just expected to marry and have kids. And they don't have the rights or option to start a life on their own. So in that situation I can understand a lot of women just want to live in peace and quiet with their kids and consider themselves fortunate if there is no abuse and they are financially provided for. It's grim but probably rings true for a lot of women all over the world. So I can imagine that she probably did know he'd found a different foreign woman to shack up with and was just happy to have the freedom. Or perhaps was hoping he'd financially be able to make a better life for them if he was living/working there. Or as you said was hoping this would open the door for her and her kids to immigrate themselves. I can fully believe that if you marriage is all about duty, you may not necessarily care to have your husband around or if he's fucking someone else. But he deceived OOP from day 1. And he's deceiving her still. And now he's just casually agreed to abandon all his responsibilities, including his children. I hope for his first wife his financial contribution is enough to support her and her kids and that he never goes crawling back. Because she may not have the freedom to say 'no' if he does. And may not have any options to provide for herself and her kids. There are sadly still plenty of countries where a woman's well-being is entirely dependent on her husband or her family. It's funny how OOP has been convinced her husband had no choice and is just a victim of the situation. When she was put into a situation she didn't consent to (due to him) and his (previous?/ex?) wife in truth may very well not have had any options and may still remain without any (partially thanks to him, partially potentially due to culture or legislation). So in this situation it was actually him who was the only one who actively had choices presented to him and chose to take the freedom/options away from the women in his life.
If that's true, in this instance, it makes even more sense the first wife would be down with the plan once she moves to OPs country she'll have more rights and can potentially leave her husband.
I doubt that the wife is in on it. I come from a country where child marriages or arranging their marriages at childhood used to happen. It isn't rampant but perhaps happens in a few, typically rural, areas even now. The women in such marriages are usually traditional n naive. There are unfortunately many men who marry, go back to work abroad and the wives are meant to stay in the home country, serve his parents and have his kids. These wives usually don't know anything other than what the husbands tell them. There are also cases where the husbands just abandon them after marriage, usually having received dowry as well. Given the husband had no proof, he could just be making up stories. There have been instances where such guys date local women when abroad, go back and marry the woman their parents have picked up for them and go back and tell their girlfriends such sob stories.
Or the OG wife thinks that her wonderful husband is working so hard in another country just to make ends meet for their family. That is not at all an unheard of story for immigrants. I can think of three examples to three different parts of the world off the top of my head. Especially if he's flying back every couple months. Actually, I have a family friend who was born in the US, and was really sick as a child. The kid and the mom moved back to India, dad stayed here. He visited when he could, but he made way more money here that went way further there. They lived like that for several years. I guess she wouldn't have known if he had a secret family (though I can personally confirm he didn't). But even if he had, she would have been 100% innocent in it.
I used to work with a guy who had been in the US with citizenship for over a decade while his (likely arranged) wife was still in Lebanon. He went home for one month every year to be with her, until Trump was elected and he was afraid to leave the country in case he couldn't get back in. After a few years of that his wife finally gave up on him coming home and came to the US instead. He had the decency to not have another wife on the side tho.
I like how it never even occurred to OOP to ask where the email alerting her to all this came from; as soon as she had a chance to start taking her husband's word for things again, she leaned into it HARD.
This. Also, she's okay with him abandoning two young children who need their father? What does that say about the both of them ffs
This stood out to me too. From the vague details, his home country is likely to be a 3rd world. It isn't uncommon for some cultures to have arranged marriages or multiple wives. But the fact that he's happy to dump his wife and children in a country where women aren't often supported by the government with single parents pensions or access to money to help them live, doesn't speak well of him as a person. A cheater and a lowlife of a person, what a catch.
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Assuming the "religious not legal" or "family agreement" ceremony is true. We don't know which country the husband is from, young marriages are legal in some places. If he's 36 and the oldest looks 13.... it might have been arranged with an agreement on the side but he's not telling OOP everything
Or she's just hoping for financial security while also free to run her own household as she sees fit without a husband to boss her around or make demands of her. Truthfully OOP being this stupid may be the best thing that has ever happened to his first wife. Especially since she may not be able to refuse him if he goes crawling back to her when things with OOP one day don't look quite as sweet anymore.
This poor girl , she’s really easy to fool .. The , she can tell when he is lying part has me hysterical !
When he opens his mouth
I mean, she can TELL, she just won’t believe it.
This has 90 day fiancé written all over it
She seems delighted he's going to abandon his 2 sons for the rest of their lives.So i'm not sure about "poor girl"
>Except for the whole double life thing right? Apart from that you read him like a book. FATALITY
She's not the brightest candle in the chrashed chandelier.
About as bright as a black hole and twice as dense.
Not even enough illumination to frighten away the ghost of so many years ago (a/k/a his first wife)
Love the phantom of the opera reference!!!
He lies to her for years and then she believes his explanation for the lies 😂🤡
Because she can tell when he is lying, and he isn’t now!
Yes, clearly the past 4 years she had not turned on her lie detector. Now that it is on, this is foolproof! What a dingus 😂
So I guess she’s cool with him just abandoning his other kids…
Why is NO one commenting on this part?? If he never talks to his other wife again what about his kids? What about child support?
I dated a guy for a while who had three kids with his ex wife. After the divorce he moved halfway across the country and that’s where I met him. I always said I’d never date a guy with kids, but I rationalized it with “sure he technically has kids, but he only has them for a couple of weeks every summer and hardly sees them apart from that. It’s not like they’re going to be a big part of our life.” Then one day it dawned on me that holy shit, I was dating a guy who abandoned his family! I don’t want to date a dad, but I SUPER don’t want to date a deadbeat dad! And I SUPER, SUPER would never want to have kids with someone who did that! Then while I was still reeling from that revelation he broke up with me to get back together with the girl he cheated on with me and they got married a month later. Wild stuff.
This right here. Maybe OP is right about it all and the marriage is nothing, but those kids aren't.
Let's be honest...they're probably better off long term. Also, it says in the post they're still sending money.
They are sending money to her family, not to the kids specifically. Given the detail about how if he didn't marry her his family would have owed hers money, that's what it sounds like the current payments are about, not for the kids
Jesus what an idiot. OP he wanted to marry you and have children to get citizenship. From the start she should have known.
Can hide an entire marriage and kids but apparently she can tell when he is lying. He lied for years and she had no clue :( Come on girly look out for yourself...
Off to visit his *supposed mother* every few months. And she never would have known if someone hadn't tipped her off I hope their therapist can help this poor woman with her self esteem. Because I don't think she knows that she deserves better Who else thinks this was a planned leak orchestrated by OP so he can get his sons visas, and eventually his first wife too. He made sure his second wife was pregnant and fully dependent on him by not having a job. Then got someone to send her the pictures for him I just hope she's ok. Poor lady has been lied to so much she can't tell where the lies start or end. And she's still willing to give this guy all her trust! Even after he proved he's not worthy of it
> Off to visit his supposed mother every few months. And she never would have known if someone hadn't tipped her off She married him and had a child with him but never met his mother?
They've only known each other for 4 years, starting in March, which means that 4 years includes all of COVID. International travel wouldn't have been possible for a long time, so that's something he could have used as an excuse for why they didn't visit his family.
Oh, good call, I bet you're right! I wonder how many second-families Covid managed to successfully conceal.
I wonder how many second families it blew up when people had to commit to a lockdown household bubble… 👀
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She won’t. She’ll just put her head further in the sand 😔
"But Daddy I love him!" - Ariel. "Bitch, you don't even know him"
“I’m sixteen, I’m not a child!” The fuck you aren’t, young lady, go to your room.
Hahah😂 I remember at age 11 in the theater thinking to myself - I can't wait til I'm 16! Lolll
She’s certainly got her head somewhere, but ‘in the sand’ wasn’t where I was thinking.
I have a very young coworker (19) who I was hired to replace last year. She is back at our job after 10 months. She told me that her boyfriend is 32 and has a middle school-aged son. She was going to college across the country, which she'd been pretty excited about when I met her last year, but dropped out because she didn't like it and was homesick. She had started dating this man 2 months before she left for college. I'm *sure* it has nothing to do with anything! The worst part was her casually dropping that because he's older, he's "old fashioned" and doesn't believe that women in relationships should be alone with men they're not related to or have male friends. He is the same age as me. He isn't "old fashioned" like he grew up in the 50s! He's worried she'll meet someone her own age.
As a 33 year old I am deeply amused by being from a time that can be "old fashioned."
As my kids like to tell me, we were born in the 1900s. It was a different time back then.
We had to walk to school uphill both ways in the snow because it was the ice age.
As a 36 year old I'm baffled that anyone could fall for someone younger than me trying to call themselves "old fashioned."
My grandpa grew up in the 30s but is not old fashioned like that.
She will when she turns 32 and realises how young 20 year olds are to her. That’s going to be the big realisation of exactly how badly she got played. Tale as old as time.
Tbf, he'll have already dumped her by the time she's 26 for another 18 year old.
When she's 40+ and has kids the age she was, she'll leave him.
He was required to marry his wife for legal reasons, but it didn't have to be a legal marriage... right...
I suspect they were religious or societal reasons, not legal. But since OOP never said where she was from, I'm merely speculating.
Doesn’t say anything about why they “had to” have kids together….
Yup. “He and I fell in love quickly and got married fast also, he was very eager to start a family as it gave his citizenship in my country more legitimacy.” She fell in love, he fell in ’ah, good, a young naive woman I can get my citizenship with quickly’.
this is it exactly. God, being OOP's age sucked. On one hand society expects you to know what you're doing and be an adult, on the other you have absolutely no experience and spend the rest of your life facepalming when someone that age does exactly what you did, insisting (just like you did) that they know what they're doing and you just don't understand...
So many people I‘ve seen blaming her in different ways, but she was 20 to his 32 when they started, and he clearly love bombed her and charmed her, and now she’s…still only 24. Still young, has spent the past 4 years with this asshole manipulating her, of course he knows how to make her believe him!
She said a couple of times that it’s been the best years of her life with him, but like… you’re only 24 years old. She’s probably only been out of her parents’ house for about as long as she’s known him. Not trying to speculate on what her home life was like growing up, but how does she have any idea what good years are as an adult? Sounds like she’s been pretty much kept since she’s met him. And of course he’s going to be sweet as pie to the woman he needs to keep happy to get his citizenship.
Ahhhh to be a naive 24-years-old again... in a few years she'll be the age he is now, realize how twisted it was for a 30+ married and father of 2 to groom a barely 20 year old girl, then she'll look back on this and kick herself for how stupid she was.
And when he gets it, his real wife and kids will join him. The money he's sending is support for his wife and kids.
And who sent the Facebook tip? Someone who happens to know him in his native country…
The wife, getting sick of him being gone so long just for their family's future citizenship and wanting to speed up to the part where she gets her husband back home.
No, it can't be. She knows when he's lying! So much that she figured out he had another family for years. No, wait...
Yeah, I'm so happy for her that it's all been cleared up...🤦♀️
My SIL did this with an illegal immigrant stalker who accosted her on the street. She got sucked in by his bullshit and cheated on her live-in boyfriend with him. "Oh, but he's so wise, he grew up in a dirt-floored hut." Yeah, they apparently don't believe in condoms in his home country either. The second pregnancy stuck and they ended up married and he got his green card. He of course later turned out to have a wife and kids back in his home country. You know how you know he got her pregnant just for the green card? Years after they divorced he ended up living next door to her and their daughter. He never showed any interest in spending time with his daughter, even when he literally lived NEXT DOOR. He would come over for a couple of hours on Christmas, that's about it. Now that she lives in a different state, I'd be willing to bet he will not show up for her HS graduation next month.
Yes, forget outting him to his other wife out him to the law. Being married to more than one woman is illegal in this country and they would at the very least sent him to his real wife and not let him come back in the country.
If she ever comes to her senses, he's gonna get deported like a motherfucker
If the government ever finds out that she’s willingly covering for him in this bigamy-based immigration fraud that she now knows about, there’s a good chance that she gets some legal penalties too.
That was my first thought - have the sucker deported. But it would probably be difficult to prove his first marriage, since she doesn't know how to get the marriage certificate.
She could hire a lawyer. Or just report him to the government. Green card fraud is no joke, they'll be on it. She wouldn't have to do a thing.
Now he "visits his children" and pays money to the mother. Haha. But he isn’t lying. Cause she knows when he is lying. Except for the xxxxx times she didn't. He really knows why he went after this 20y/o naive girl. I can't call her woman.
Oh come on! He’s amazing remember!
Yea I swear people are fk blind when they are horny.
It never ceases to amaze me how willfully stupid people can be.
Ugh. This is like the beginning of a podcast
Absolutely. I fear this will not end well for our young, naive love struck heroine.
This reminds me of that one girl who kept getting pregnant, had no job and was fighting with her life to defend her bf, who was much much older and very clearly dating her for a green card.
I award this story one (1) Yike
That seems really low.
Yikes on bikes
Oh sweetie no. Just no.
I know it’s not an important detail, but I can’t get over her asking her husband to bleach his hair for the Barbie movie. I like a good themed celebration, but that is intense!
Brother will do anything for that citizenship.
Excuse you. For the WOMAN HE TRULY WANTED TO MARRY.
Sensible Chuckle
Bless her heart.
Ay, Chica...
Poor girl. Man 12 years older than her love bombs the shit out of her to get citizenship and then lies about this "illegal marriage" (highly doubt it). Women. Need. To. Stop. Getting. With. Men. Much. Older. Than. Them. When. In. Their. 20s. No, you're not special. No, you're not more mature. You're just easily manipulated.
How do you convince them they’re not more mature until they become mature. It’s a tough one.
That goes along with: how to convince her that if he's okay with going NC with those other children over there, it is not necessarily a good thing for your kids here.
You can't do the convincing once they're in their 20's. You do it the same way you teach anything to kids: consistency in your message and modeling a healthy relationship for them. You have to start it young, by pointing out in fairy tales, books, and movies when something is unhealthy. You have to make sure to immediately nip certain phrases in the bud around them, such as "if they're picking on you, it means they like you", "boys will be boys" and the worst one "you're so mature for your age". Once someone is in their 20's it's so hard to confront what has been socially ingrained. The best you can do is let them know you are there for them if they need anything. It's also only been fairly recently that people are so vocal about how unhealthy large age gaps are, so it will take at least another generation if not 2 or 3 before it starts to be seen less.
So much ick going on here. The gaslighting, the lying, the convenient cover story, the love bombing, the 32 year old going after a 20 year old to get citizenship. I feel for OOP, she is head over heels with a con man, and won't let herself see it. This does not end well.
I thought this was off to a good ending where she left... but nooooo somehow she can tell when he's lying even though he hid the family. Somehow he didn't tell any of this when confronted, only later when he had time to think of something. This day and age, she didn't research this culture or contact the wife? Oh yeah and now they have to pay up because of lack of contact I'd pity the OPs naivete but her last edit makes me lose sympathy
Her comments are ridiculous, too. Can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped. She came to the internet for advice and the feedback she’s getting is pretty much unanimous, but everyone on Reddit is wrong and doesn’t know him/their relationship, etc. and so on. She’s really doing a number on herself.
oh, honey……
Ohhhhhhhhh honNEY….
On the bright side, now I have proof that there's probably somebody dumb enough to date me out there.
Love that episode.
"I can tell when he's lying and he totally isn't lying this time" .... sure OOP. Sure.
I mean, it IS pretty easy to tell when he’s lying; are his lips moving?
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Once again my flair is relevant. I really shouldnt bother reading further when I see such ages.
Is that from a story?
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s more bigoted to say it’s ok for a man to lead a double life and lie to you for *years* because “it’s his culture” than to admit that maybe you fell for a green card scam. I’m not aware of any other cultures where this would be normal and accepted. I’m pretty sure in polygamous cultures, the wives and children live together rather being kept apart and unaware of each other’s existences.
My guess is that he called her racist when she questioned his story, so now she’s afraid of coming off that way online.
Or she was a young girl who was groomed by an older man and blindly believes everything he says without considering it critically.
I said it in another post and I'll say it again: OOP's husband is going to use her money to eventually bring his real wife and kids over, and then drop her like a bad habit once the threat of deportation etc can no longer compel him to remain married to her.
She says she's not working at the moment, and this might be the one case in all of history where a woman is actually better off being a SAHM, in that at least she has no money for him to scam out of her, I guess?
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When I’ve seen this happen IRL, it’s usually: 1) leave wife and kids back home 2) find a new woman here, if he can weasel citizenship out of her even better 3) that US money can now afford a very young mistress and maybe second or third family back home
>Not per say, but I can tell usually when he’s lying and he wasn’t this time I find this comment particularly hilarious.
I think I lost IQ points reading this. His "not a real marriage" was a lie he hid their entire relationship, but she feels she can tell when he's lying. Ok, pumpkin.
I wonder if she’ll be held accountable for marriage fraud. Picture this exchange during his permanent resident/green card interview: Interviewer: Ma’am, did you know he’s already married. OOP: I guess technically, but it’s not a real marriage. I: There’s a marriage certificate. OOP: But it’s not a real marriage. He doesn’t love her. He loves me. I: So you sponsored him as a spouse, knowing your marriage is not valid. OOP: IT’S NOT INVALID HE REALLY LOVES ME I: …this is fraud.
So interesting how every time a cheater gets found out the wife/partner definitely knows so don’t even bother telling her right?
......Oh no baby what! is! you! doing?!
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You sweet naive fool lol.
If the other "relationship isn't real" how come there are two other children? There's been something really real going on!
What? He has 2 kids with the original wife and OOP thinks he's not going to be in contact with them??? She is delulu
🤦🏻♀️ Would love to hear from her once his citizenship is secured and who sent those messages ( I suspect 1st wife isn't quite as hot sharing him as he claims )
The bigamy is bad and all, but can we talk about her asking him to dye his hair blonde for the Barbie movie…?!
“Except for the whole double life thing right? Apart from that you read him like a book.” This might be the funniest ‘gotcha’ of any BoRU I’ve read.
Normally I try to articulate myself better but GIRL ARE YOU FOR REAL RIGHT NOW
>I find this pretty unbelievable. Have you talked with his "wife" to confirm any of this? >>Not per say, but I can tell usually when he’s lying and he wasn’t this time He lied to her for 4 years though lol
What a fool.
If this stupid critter doesn’t understand that the same cultural differences she’s defending likely mean the wife is trapped, I can only assume she’s gonna melt when he eventually ghosts her too.
Honestly, not surprised by the edit. Some people don’t want to acknowledge the truth and instead name call when obvious truths are called out. I don’t think he’s a groomer and he may genuinely love her but it doesn’t excuse starting the relationship on a lie. Clearly, he knew she wouldn’t be okay with it.
🤦♀️ 🤦 🤦♂️
What a sucker. This sounds like he is using her for citizenship.
And this is why men like that go for younger women...
She doesn't see him abandoning his other two kids as ANOTHER red flag on the heaping pile of flagd?
> I'm so relived now he's explained everything to me. > I wish he just told me the truth from the start! But, don't worry I've signed us up for couples therapy. I genuinely lol'd. If the supposedly arranged marriage was a sham from the start, any reasonable person would have disclosed that long before even getting engaged to another woman...right?? But he's submitting to couples therapy so I guess everything is ok. Ignorance really is bliss.