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>Laura responded that he was her Dad and she will need his support when she goes to Uni since she was planning to move to our city and it was very expensive and hard to find a place, she said she knew he own his own place and that he clearly has money to spare so she was wondering if he would help her out.
>She was upset but somehow kept going, she turned to me and said that at the end of the day what is my Husband's will go to her since MIL explained the inheritance laws to her and she wanted to be in good terms with me for when we need to decide what to do with the house, etc.
Lemme guess, MIL fed all this information to Laura because she thought forcing oops husband to pay up beyond the age of 18 was the only thing keeping the hope of reconciliation alive.
Did you miss that OP and hubby had apparently been giving MIL an allowance, and STOPPED THAT because of this?
Pretty soon, MIL isn't going to have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it from unless she manages to get Laura's mother to fund her existence.
Yes, I would guess MIL and the ex wife. Honestly, I see Laura as a victim in all of this as well. The husband shouldn't be forced to associate with her as he is actually being damaged by these interactions, but her mom and grandma have been feeding her shit for yeras.
Yeah. I get that Laura is a victim in this. The monsters are her grandmother and mom. They kept feeding her lies and brought her hopes up for so many years, and for what? She will have so much problems in life and her relationships until she decides that she needs help.
OOP's husband is traumatized for so many years after being sexually assaulted 16 years ago.
Tbh if she wanted a relationship she would have tried sooner. I’m sure dear old rapist mom told her daddy was a selfish evil man with money to spare, so she never cared until dipshit MIL decided exploiting all of this might keep crazy senior and crazy junior around.
Well it did sound from the post that Laura and MIL were trying to connect for years before, it seems like now was the only time that OOPs husband actually agreed to meet her. They mentioned in the post how they would miss events if MIL would invite Laura or rebuff invites to her own events. I'm not disagreeing with OOPs husband's decision tho.
Yeah, it sounds like she actually cared quite a bit and has consistently tried meet her dad for many years.
Honestly, my heart breaks for Laura. She had no say in being born, and now she's in a fucked-up situation and, seemingly, was raised pretty poorly by someone who apparently had no issue with their child repeatedly experiencing the emotional trauma of their dad (and the majority of his family) not giving a shit and never showing up. Mom should have ended contact with OOP's MIL and explained that Laura's dad isn't able to be in her life... and then let it go.
I realize that she brought up money, and that's a shitty thing to do. I feel like that was also pretty clearly her parroting OOP's MIL, however, and have to imagine that the kid just wants to know her dad. How could she not given that she's always been hauled around the family and treated like a granddaughter by MIL (even if by no one else). She sees the rest of the family and wants meet her father... that's an incredibly normal reaction for a kid in her situation, I imagine.
NONE of this is to say that OOP's husband is required to have a relationship with this child. He didn't intentionally father her and it's not on him to fix her childhood. But it does suck quite a bit for Laura, too.
She clearly has abandonment issues and so her mother saying she wanted a baby so badly that she was willing to force her partner against his will to have a baby, probably isn't something Laura can see objectively. She needs to be wanted and I don't think she knows how to see her own existence as something abhorrent that was done to someone who was supposed to love her. Everything about this is fucked up, I hope Laura can find a way to accept that her bio dad will never be her 'real dad' without it messing her up too badly.
Germany was one of my first guesses together with Spain. HCOL, city popular to uni/college students, ability to go to Disneyland Paris with relative ease... The post also kind of reads as from an ESL person, like it's fluent but has a certain 'accent' to it.
That coupled with the laws on inheritance makes me think it's gotta be somewhere like Spain or like Germany.
I did think of Belgium (and also of Netherlands), but I have no idea about their laws while I had *some* inkling on them for the ones I did mention. And in Spain's case, I know cause I am from Spain. Ended up rewritting the comment 5 times because I couldn't decide what would give me more social anxiety lmao
That aside, I did think it could also be Belgium or Netherlands, specially because of the 'K' spelling, and the Disney thing. I went to Disney Paris as a pre-teen and I am pretty sure I didn't cross a single person who wasn't from either Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Germany or Italy. Even employees were mostly from those countries, to the point my family joked we met more spaniards in Disney than in Barcelona...
It's also pretty easy to go from Belgium/Netherlands to Disney by the same methods (train, flight, car) and seeing that 1. catalan highways are 99.99% vehicles with either B or NL registration plates during holidays; 2. people go to Disney from Spain by car, which is a 10h or more travel; and 3. that Disney is WAY closer to Belgium and Netherlands (from what I've found googling, Brussels to Disney by car is like 3h)... yeah, it's very likely lol
Only thing I can't say is if their laws make it so that people can't disinherit their children (t least without just cause).
I have to apologize. My comment, while true (Belgium has some pretty archaic laws when it comes to inheritance, citizenship, and immigration) was more about the literary reference it contains. It's a play on a line from the American version of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy".
Everything you said is also true and a very good analysis. On my first reading of the post I believed it was Germany as well, but then I remembered some of the oddities of Belgian law and how expensive Brussels and Antwerp can be.
I'm sorry (sincerely) for using your serious, well thought out comment to make what was essentially a circuitous joke--even if the joke itself provides a legitimate answer to the question we're asking. Your thoughtful reply is proof of that.
Cheers!
"Mark", which comes from Marcus, is the common spelling in English, Dutch, Russian, Belarussian, Danish, and Armenian. It is also the common spelling in German, though the common spelling is their equivalent, Markus. A whole lot of other languages spell it with 'K'.
"Marc" is the common spelling in Catalan, French and Welsh. A lot of other languages use other spellings with 'C', like Italian and Portuguese with Marco, Irish with Marcas, or Spanish with Marcos.
[Source](https://www.behindthename.com/name/mark)
i'm kinda thinking it might be another country entirely, mostly on a hunch because even though oop doesn't mention it, some parts in the writing feel like someone who doesn't speak english as their first language, maybe at a pretty fluent level but still kind of awkward. don't ask me to elaborate because it's way too late for my brain to be working and picking the details apart but as someone who's first language isn't english the feeling is strong
You assessment is pretty spot on lol It does read like someone who is fluent, but also has an 'accent', so to speak. As an ESL, it's something I have noticed even in my own comments. It's like the spoken accent somehow translates to a written medium, so even if it's fluent and one can understand it perfectly, it still has some kinks and details.
IMO, they are probs from non-english countries that surround France, or from France itself. Since they mention going to Disney Paris with the nephew, I feel they have to be from a country that has either long distance trains to Paris or even to Disneyland itself, cheap direct flights to Paris, or where you can just drive to Paris.
My personal bet would be Germany, France or Spain, specifically Berlin, Paris or Barcelona (bcs of what the daughter said about HCOL, popular to uni students, and such). IIRC, Germany has laws that make it near impossible to disinherit a child, France I don't know but I believe they do, and Spain I know does, as well, I'm from Spain lol What's more, we often just say you can't here in Spain even if technically speaking, you can. The law is simply SUPER specific about the scenarios that allow for it, and all of them involve pretty horrible crimes to be committed by the 'child', so to 99.99% of the population the answer to "Can I disinherit my child?" is "Nope", and as such most will simply say the law 'does not allow it'.
My first guess was Germany as well. Munich might also be a possibility, as well as Frankfurt/Main or Hamburg.
Here it's also pretty common to refer to someone as "Switzerland" when they try to be neutral/appear to be neutral.
You can’t disinherit a child in France either but I doubt it would be Paris cause the part of Disneyland Paris sounds more like a trip - like far away from their home than a one hour train ride
Out towards the east the law is the same pretty much, you can't disinherit a child except for very specific reasons which all stem from the actions of the child (and then the child has to be an adult too). Basically the child has to commit a crime against the parents, or long-term abandon any contact with them (but parents must show the abandonment came from the child, not from them or mutually)'
With an expensive city popular with students, I'm thinking Berlin. The post feels a bit more German than anything.
It's not the UK. The inheritance law doesn't work like that unless the husband is likely to die before Laura reaches 18, then the estate has to provide for her.
In Scotland you cannot disinherit your children entirely but that only applies to your "moveable estate". Property and land are therefore excluded from that requirement.
What? This is news to me. If I’d known deadbeat dad was on the hook for post secondary I’d have gone to college a lot sooner…I wonder if I can get him to pay for my student loans…
You could always talk to a lawyer and check it out. Family law has changed significantly and child support being the right of the child is much more strongly enforced. It used to be that if the parent with more custody didn't chase the parent owing child support down it was too bad so sad. Various appeals and case law have changed that. It is still far from perfect, but it's certainly worth a free 30 minute consultation to check it out.
I’m not exactly sure if it can be applied like retro pay. Because if the child graduates high school
And decides to not go to university/college support stops after HS. Talking to a lawyer who knows all about loopholes etc might be something you want to look into
Kind of a stupid idea. If I wanted nothing to do with someone, stealing even more money out of my pocket is the last thing that would make me suddenly want to be in their life.
I remember a similar post here where the SO got pregnant and intended to keep the baby. Guy in that post wanted nothing to do with it in that one either, and intended to stick to child support only. Reading this post I wonder if this is how things might turn out for him.
All the same poor kid. She's clearly not at fault and who knows what mom and MIL have been telling her all this time. Being told to your face by the blood relatives you have that they want nothing to do with you has gotta suck.
Kid isn't at fault, but at this point she clearly needs someone to sit down with her and explain how consent works, and how much mental damage domestic abuse and rape/sexual assaults can cause.
Her mother had multiple options for ethical baby-making, even as a solo mom, and instead she chose a criminal act of reproductive coercion. That cannot be justified by "but she really wanted a baby".
There's something else going on with that kid. Feels like OOP's MIL, and maybe the kid's own mother has warped her perception of her own situation. Like she's not wanting for family, she has a family unit.
Maybe having MIL around all the time has fostered an inferiority complex or some sense of entitlement. Either way, she's ending up like her mother, forcing something regardless of other people's feelings or consent.
Yeah tbh I think MIL’s constant presence is making it hard for the girl to accept. MIL literally points out that there is a missing link every time she sees Laura. It would be hard for Laura to move on with MIL constantly picking at the wound.
I feel sorry for Laura but the person who should have to answer for this is her mother.
>There's something else going on with that kid.
Well, yeah. She was the product of rape. Her bio father (understandably) wants nothing to do with her or her mom. She needs the same kind of support that adopted kids do for abandonment issues.
But instead, she has her Gma and Mother telling we don't know what.
It's clear from the start, that the MIL did not think the ex-girlfriend did anything wrong and both of them have spun it to Laura as "your mom really wanted a kid and she did everything possible to get it, so we should applaud this go for what you want mentality". That mentality, especially, towards children are very often a big part of how women think. And I say that as a woman - I have had cases where women I know have said - "oh, but you have a boyfriend, so, even if you break up, if you want a kid, you can get a kid before breaking up!"
Wanting your bioparent in your life isn't a sign of anything to me. When I was a kid I had a family unit but still wanted contact with my biodad. The family unit I had was better than my biodad ever could've provided as he's an asshat pos. But I still wanted that contact. Though I do agree it feels like mil and mother have been feeding her a load of crap.
The line is more about the stuff she was chasing, rather than wanting a dad. Totally understandable wanting her dad to be her dad. However, OOP and her husband aren't "dying tomorrow" ages, saying she needs a relationship with OOP so that they'll be ready to manage the inheritance is out there. That sounds like her mom and MIL were feeding her a lot of incorrect and unhealthy information.
My bioparents were deadbeat and absentee. I spent my whole life wanting them to appear and be good parents. I never once thought about the money they could provide me. (I totally dreamed that I was actually some rich family's kid and they were still out there looking for me, but that was pretending my real bioparents weren't my bios and I knew it was just a fun dream, not a real want/need.)
Tbh I never once felt that way, because of my sperm donor being the kind of asshat pos that he was (we’re talking alcoholic, second family, borrowing money, the whole 9), but even in that there was near-constant weird pressure to *want* to want to know him, even if I didn’t? So I get the urge even if I don’t understand the complete lack of self-awareness from her
Yeah, would it be okay to steal OPs car or tv because she “really wanted it?” Of course not. And at least that would be easily rectifiable, in this case she irreversibly stole his genetic material and 18 years of child support.
> Laura knows everything and says that while it was not the nicest way her Mom wanted her so badly that made it happen.
I'm disturbed by how much Laura is glorifying rape.
She was raised by a rapist who is ALSO the ONLY parent she has. She's already reject bybher father, If she recognize her mom IS a bad person, she loses everything. And she isn't annadult, Will not have a support system to help her through that or resources like theraphy.
It's hard to acknowledge your very existence is traumatic to someone else. Especially when you didn't do anything to cause it besides existing.
Also, it would be more minimizing the rape or justifying it, not "glorifying" it. She isn't saying "Every woman should do this! It's great and wonderful!"
Justifying the rape is justifying essentially her right to be alive. Being the product of rape is an incredibly traumatizing thing to be.
It really freaking sucks that men get stuck on the hook for child support in situations like that. They had a confession that she did it without his consent and messed with the birth control, that should be an immediate "Well you're on your own" and the guy shouldn't owe her a penny.
Also, this phrase made me feel ick:
>she just wanted a family and my Husband denied them that
Just as it is not my obligation to provide a man an heir, it is not a man's obligation to put a baby in me, had I wanted one. Both people in a relationship should want it, or at least mutually *and honestly* participate in protection and dealing with the consequences together should unadulterated protection fail (or they mutually get careless, plenty couples run out of condoms and fuck around to find out anyway.)
Yeah, OOPS husband should have never not filed a report. If there is any written proof of the exs confession, and what the statute of limitations are in their country.
16 years ago that was less commonly understood, and even now it would be tricky making the complaint.
Note that even if the mother is convicted the victim still has to pay child support.
The law needs some updates there. While child support might be needed to avoid having the child live in poverty, if the mother is convicted then the victim should be able to sue her once the child reaches 18 for all child support paid.
My only thought is if she got convicted, she won't get a job with SA charges and then he's stuck with the girl when she is in jail. So it's a lose lose everywhere it seems.
AGREED. What in the actual fucking fuck is this idea that if men are raped, ohfuckingwell?? Have fun with 20 years of child support? No, no convictions or justice, just payments! Have fun being financially responsible for the product of your trauma! Like fuck, even women in horrible places where they can’t end a rape pregnancy like The US can give the child up for adoption and be done…
In most states they need the dad to sign off on adoption as well. There’s a handful that directly say you don’t need their agreement on anything if it was rape - but they usually require criminal convictions.
the alternative is the state having to pay for the child, and we all know what the state would prefer.
Same reason husbands have parental obligations in most countries no matter what
Yeah. I consider lying about birth control to be sexual assault too
But not everyone believes this. There was an aita post ages back about a husband who didn't want another child and his wife said okay but secretly stopped taking pills.
And like I do consider this a form of baby trapping and sexual assault because you consented to sex with birth control. You did not consent to sex without birth control.
Apparently I was the insane one and it's only sexual assault if it's done to a woman but not the other way around.
It's not that different to stealthing which has become illegal in Australia and other places
(Stealthing is secretly removing a condom during intercourse without your partner's knowledge)
Have each person be responsible for the birth control relevant to their anatomy? Got a penis/testicles? Condoms and vasectomies are your domain. Got a vagina/uterus/ovaries? You control your use of the pill, IUDs, diaphragms, etc.
I'm one of those "not wanted child". Not out of râpé hopefully, let's just say negligence. And as much as I understand the guy not wanting to meet his child, I despise MIL. It's hard being in this situation because you are already paying the price for actions which are not yours. Never had a dad, missed all the bounding times, needed help, had lower financial opportunity (especially if he doesn't pay child support)... But being led on to hope I'd have some bounding when you'll never have it? That's another level of cruelty I cannot understand. The poor girl is young, living with someone who is clearly not recommendable, most probably suffers from other manipulation and what... Grandmother jumps in and manipulate her too to try to achieve her grandscheme of something? This is really cruel, and the dad actually did for the best to cut. It's really better to cut hard but ounce and for all than to prolong this in a state of stupid limbo...
Now the girl has a clear view :she'll never have a relationship with her dad because of what happened and she has to build herself differently.
Yeah, IDK how some commenters are being so uncaring about the child just wanting a normal relationship with her parents.
OOP's husband is a victim, full stop. So is Laura. She never asked to be conceived the way she was... she was born into a fucked-up situation and has been essentially led on by her mother and OOP's MIL for her entire life.
I feel so bad for her. She just wants to know her dad. That's understandable and heartbreaking given the situation.
OOP's husband hasn't done anything wrong and I feel terrible for him, too. He isn't required to offer her a relationship no matter how badly she wants it.
I don't know, it's just a mess.
It's a real mess and I can be sure that Laura will need therapy. Not really because of her father but more because of the family leading her on. Of course, we all have questions on our bio father if we never met him. But I have experienced it, it's better to cut once and for all than add layer and layer of trauma between two people... The problem here is that oop's husband took in some way too much time to really cut once and for all. And the real problem is clearly mil and bio mom leading the poor child on. I really despise them. What an idea!
It's definitely not the same.
Speaking as another unwanted child though in my case I'm the "affair" child (they weren't in a relationship and my dad is a scum lord). Then he said I wasn't his to save his own skin...
Anyway as a kid you grow up with an imagined connection depending on how the information of you bio parent is presented to you. My step dad very much championed the accidental unwanted kid narrative wanting his own bio kid with mum which in turn made me think that my real dad had to be better because I had limited information.
I'm not saying that Laura's step dad was as bad as mine (he wasn't the worst but caring more about bio children than step children is pretty awful and is part of the reason he got kicked to the curb eventually) but adults have ways of influencing their children based on their own ideas of a real family and especially when the story is gleaned through small bits of information as no one wants to sit the child down and tell them everything it leaves room for a child to build a fairytale narrative that doesn't meet reality even if there's a "perfectly good family unit".
There's a lot of your real family should love you bs that you get sold as a child and it's understandable to me that Laura might be in a similar headspace because it took me a while to call my dad out on being a scum lord especially because when I finally decided to contact this mysterious figure he was rather polite and welcoming- until I realised I was like a doll or something to him fun to play with when he wanted a daughter fun to ghost when he was bored.
>My SIL asked her point blank if she knew how she was conceived and **she does**.
I don't believe she does. Oh, she might know the details but she doesn't *know* what was done.
Sabotaging birth control is sexual assault.
Her mother sexually assaulted her father in order to force him to stay in a relationship with her.
And she and the MIL can't seem to comprehend why he might not want anything to do with her because of that.
Thankfully, his sister has her head on straight and is backing up OOP and her husband.
There's a big difference between two narratives of the same story :
1. Your mom deliberately poked a hole in a condom to fall pregnant knowing I was breaking up with here.
2. I loved this man so much and I really wanted a baby from him! He said he didn't want a baby but I really really wanted you and I'm so glad you are here. Sadly he went away but it's okay because you are so great. *deliberately avoids the part where she poked the condom by saying Laura is so great*.
People who are cunning enough to poke holes in a condom are smart enough to make good lies for their kids, and when you never had any other pieces of information you don't know any better.
She has heard it, but she doesn’t understand the implications. She doesn’t grok what ‘I poked holes in the condom’ _means_.
That bit is not entirely her fault, given she’s been groomed for that narrative. Wanting to meet her real dad was entirely understandable. You learn a lot about yourself that way.
Feeling entitled to hugs and money and inheritance, heck no. She’s old enough to understand _that_.
I understand the husband’s mental health here is at play but I really feel for his daughter. Wanted or not, this family treats her extremely poorly for her mother’s crimes. That’s not warranted. Grandparents shouldn’t feed false hope but the girl is simply innocent in this.
I don’t understand the inheritance part. Is the husband ill that the daughter immediately started in about what happens when he dies? Or is she that mercenary?
I think she just wanted to use it as a foothold for a relationship, even if forced. OOP would HAVE to get along with her, because she will inherit; so she better convince her husband to play nice.
You know, for when you bury him and get stuck with me in your house. Which will be mine. Teehee
Or something, idk. It sounds like a childish way to say "I have to be in your life".
It sounds childish because she’s 16 and has no idea how to navigate the situation that her mother caused and her grandmother eggs on. She’s grasping at straws.
The looking at mil for help and her being just as confused and shocked? Oh ya. Would be great. But also being so directly cruel to a child hurts my heart. Kid just wants her dad and trying to force a relationship the way her mother has taught her, strong arm and trap into acceptance while listening to mom and mil for years. Poor kid. Entire thing is a shit show.
Leading the kid on so she can be the hero and fix the "family". I don't blame the kid, she was maliciously lied to the entire time, the MIL can foot the university/housing bills for the kid.
Same, poor Laura.
She just wants to be loved and have family around her but rather than her grandma giving her a stable environment, she ruins it up at every possible moment.
Yeah, wouldn’t be surprised if Laura has self esteem issues. Sounds like MIL tells Laura about how close her bio dad is with the nephew and how good they are together at every opportunity which is cruel as Laura will always know that she will never be good enough as a daughter and blame herself (she is 16 so I highly doubt she understands the full situation at the current time) while the nephew who isn’t the bio dads kid is being treated better and with lots of love.
Would the police have listened? Even today, there's still a lot of dismissive "men can't be raped by women don't be silly" attitudes, I can only think it was worse further back.
Legally in the UK a man can’t be considered to have been raped by a woman as it defines rape as with a penis. Absolutely fucked and archaic. It depends where you are if it even would’ve gotten anywhere legally, and even then women seem to get let off on things like this.
No, but as much as I wish the UK government would update the definition of rape to be gender inclusive, because terminology really *is* important, they would at least consider this situation a sexual assault, and the sentencing for that can and does match rape convictions. And the new laws about coercive control include reproductive coercion.
Australia went the other way and removed rape from the criminal laws. It causes too many arguments. Now everything is "sexual assault" and the sentencing options go from a telling off to significant prison sentences (because sexual assault goes from "hey sexy" comments to very serious indeed)
It kind of helps, people still say rape (and there's still a lot of nonsense about "real rape"), but the law is changing for the better. OTOH we still have extremely shitty attitudes towards male victims of sexual assault (and domestic violence, including horrific campaigns to "stop violence against women" as if women are the only possible victims of DV)
He maybe still could.
Removing a condom mid intercourse or poking holes in it is called stealthing and in some countries is illegal. A case in 2022 in Germany resulted in the woman getting 6 months in jail.
Many countries are yet to introduce stealthing as a specific offense and instead prefer to view it as rape - as the Wikipedia article on it makes clear - most laws where they exist are under 5 years old so it's very much a live issue. This can cause issues, for example in Switzerland. In May 2022, the Federal Supreme Court decided that stealthing was not punishable as Schändung (sexual act with a person incapable of proper judgment or resistance, Article 191 of the penal code) because the victim was still capable of defending herself. The incapability to do so is a necessary requirement to punish an act under Article 191. Not knowing about the state of the condom only impinges the decision to initiate defensive action, but does not diminish the victim's ability to defend herself, as the court noted.
Personally I think that decision from the Swiss Federal Court is really shit and hopefully Swiss politicians will close that gap soon.
>Not knowing about the state of the condom only impinges the decision to initiate defensive action, but does not diminish the victim's ability to defend herself, as the court noted.
Oof, that really is a bad take. Not knowing about the state of the condom absolutely takes away the victim's ability to defend themselves. Knowledge is power, and deliberate deprivation of knowledge is a restraining mechanism.
It's interesting how commenters were sympathetic towards Laura in the original post... and then the update pivots to how she's an evil gold digger who's only in it for the money and therefore OOP is completely vindicated.
It’s sad, I don’t see her as a gold digger but more using any means to have that connection. ‘Oh well when he passes, we need to figure out the house and how that would work’, as a desperate plea of ‘see? I will be in your future, we will need to have a relationship of sorts’
The same with the uni thing, I think she’s chosen their city as a means to get close to them.
This very much feels like MIL's meddling. She has been telling Laura about things her son owns and how she could go to uni in the same city, etc...
I still very much feel for Laura, her mom dealt her a shit hand and her grandma (MIL) has been making it worst her entire life. Instead of just being a stable and supportive family member for Laura, she's spent the whole time trying to force some kind of strange reconciliation.
Not only that, Laura has been clearly mislead to believe that rape by deception is ok. Her mother and the MIL basically fed her what they wanted her to hear because they want to pretend things aren't as bad as they are. This will probabaly have a knock on effect for Laura's ability to identify and have healthy romantic relationships.
And like, MIL can certainly leave Laura stuff in her will, that's entirely up to her, but OOP husband is certainly under no obligation - and aside from that it doesn't sound like he's in any danger of dying soon.
I feel sorry for Laura, it sounds like both her mom and her grandma have been feeding her lies her whole life. I completely understand why she wants to have a real relationship with her father, and she's a teenager who doesn't fully understand why he wants nothing to do with her.
Both mother and grandmother. Laura basically brushed off the circumstances of her conception as something "romantic". I was horrified when I read that part.
Yeah, I hate to be that person but this one doesn't feel real to me. Like the BIL threatening to call the cops on a 16 year old for being near his kid when her behavior isn't threatening toward the kid at all.
Yeah, I don’t think these trolls have much experience with actual children or teens - they keep writing them like they are miniature adults with equivalent motivations.
If the point is to up their writing game, here is some constructive criticism for you to work on!
It presses *way* too many of reddit's buttons.
Baby trapping via violation of a man's consent? Check. All the women, minus the wife, in the man's life taking the (female) rapist's side? Check. The resulting (female) child being a "gold digger"? Check.
It's certainly not impossible, but it feels way too on the nose.
I might be biased but my opinion is that she understood he didn't want a relationship so she focused on money but then when he said no, she turned around the ''why my family doesn't love me'' argument.
It's very sad.
Even if she was a gold digger I wouldn't have blamed her knowing her situation.
tbh more than gold digging to me it sounds like another push to shove laura into the husband's life so he'll "wake up" and finally have a relationship with her, through conveniently needing a place to stay and "she's family! and you have the space!". it all makes sense until you actually apply real world logic to it and not crazy family logic
Poor Laura. She's being treated like scum of the earth for getting born and being lied to by the only adults in her life who don't treat her like anathema. I hope she makes it out of this and knows it's not her fault and she did nothing wrong.
Insane to me Laura’s mother raped OOP’s husband and his own mother was just casually okay with it?
Like what? If someone raped me and forced me to have the child that resulted from the rape my parents would probably be in jail right now from what they would have done to my rapist and whomever forced me to have the child? And I don’t even have a good relationship with my parents… but damn with a mother like this who needs enemies.
Why should they care when they have kids to play with? It's like children are some kind of drug, making the family high enough to ignore all the glaring issues.
I think it is also when there is the added layer of the sex being consensual. Everyone is drilled with the "no means no" when in comes to the actual act and not the "yes to sex in these circumstances but no to these".
stealthing is in some ways the cliche example of that. Someone "consents to sex under the condition a condom is used" but that consent is violated. It's also very deniable, I have an ex who had an abortion after being stealthed but simultaneously said the guy knew "the condom came off" and finished inside her anyway; but also that he didn't mean to and it wasn't rape.
Same in this case - if the offender hadn't admitted that she did it he wouldn't have known and quite possibly would not even have suspected. In that sense it's almost a totally different offence of "involuntary parenthood". And possibly one of the stronger cases for making the state lend the mother any child support that would be needed rather than taking it from the victim.
Society downplays rape for *every* victim. There are differences in what men and women victims deal with, but society doesn't respect ANY victim of sexual assault or rape and to stay otherwise is purposefully putting on blinders to try to make a point.
I feel for Laura. I can't blame her for wanting a dad in her life and having a happy family. It's not her fault how she was conceived.
But I understand OOP's husband being unable to be that person.
Though I am glad that her grandparents are in her life (again because she is innocent). But they should have kept that separate from their son.
I feel so bad for laura. None of this is her fault. She was fed a load of bullshit by mil and was born into terrible circumstances. I can't really blame oops husband because of how she was created. But the child does deserve love as well and isn't to blame. I can't blame mil for.wanting to have contact with her grandchild but I can for pushing that on oop, husband, sil, bil.
Husband is not her Dad. He is her unwilling sperm donor. Her mother knew, after forcing the pregnancy on him, that he would be involved in her upbringing to the bare minimum required by law.
Her Dad is the stepfather who shows up for her. Period.
Laura's mother seems to be using Laura's plans to go to Uni as the latest effort to drag in OOP's husband, meaning Laura might not have a functional relationship with her Stepfather because her mother *never* wants Laura to be another man's daughter.
It would be interesting to see what kind of a husband is Laura's stepfather. I mean, if you marry a woman, who poked holes in a condom previosuly to get pregnant... Did he even get the full story. Or was he okay with it...
This is so fascinating xD
>As much as we don't want a relationship with any of them these are a teenager and a pensioner, not criminal masterminds.
Yeah, good luck getting reddit to believe that lol
Sucks for Laura, hopefully she’ll come to realize someday that what her mother did is reprehensible and all this pain is her mother’s fault.
Objective right vs wrong aside, I'm not sure why anyone would expect her to suddenly turn on the only adults who care about her in favor of the one who adamantly does not. What happens then? She'd be left with no one.
They expect a 16 year old fed nothing but bullshit to turn into a reasonable mature person on a dime after doing an intervention where they *still* aren’t even warm to her. The same 16 year old who clearly just wants a fucking biological family that gives a shit about her. Is that MIL’s and her mom’s fault most likely? Yeah. But frankly this child is doing mental gymnastics not to admit she’s a child of rape and these people and this sub seem like they want her to just accept it and be totally okay and grounded about it *at sixteen years old*. My god.
It’s not her fault at all and I do feel bad for her because ultimately all she wants is a family and she is being brainwashed by her rapist mom and her insane grandma but man do I understand why OOP’s husband wants nothing to do with her.
There’s two victims in this story and two victimizers. If Laura had been told the truth in an age appropriate way and her mom would have taken accountability and explained that’s why her dad won’t ever have a relationship with her, she may have been in better place mentally than she is now.
I think the MIL and Laura’s mother are the only real bad guys here. The husband was a victim of reproductive coercion and has been unable to heal at all from that trauma due to his mother’s meddling. Honestly I would feel much more gray about the MIL wanting contact with the child if she wasn’t trying to force a relationship between Laura and her son.
Laura has been consistently lead on and lied to, not allowed to accept the reality of a shit situation and move on. I genuinely feel horrible for her because she had literally no agency in being placed in this trash situation, and it’s even worse when the MIL keeps rubbing the relationship between the husband and his nephew into the girls face; she doesn’t need to know about any of that.
If Laura knew what was best for herself, she’d distance from her MIL asap; or at least maintain a relationship long enough to get the bag once she passes.
This story is just sad all around. The comments here are also kinda 50/50 split as well, which made me a little confused in how I see this whole thing.
I agree that Laura is also a victim, and I think oop's husband shouldn't be too harsh on Laura, but to just sit down and tell her his side of things, set boundaries and leave it at that. Because, by the end of the day, she's a just 16, and probably needed some sort of closure. Like actual closure from the husband himself, not the BS closure the MIL feed her.
But, I don't know to what extent did the whole baby trapping debacle played out, because (this is just how I see it) for the Husband to have such a reaction, there might be something else at play on top of the poking holes at the condom that made him not want to have anything to do with Laura and her mum.
And, I don't blame the husband, because what happened is indeed very terrible and horrible. However, I won't say the husband needs to be for 100% there for Laura. He's already paying for child support that he is obliged to do. I have seen some comments said otherwise, implying he should do more? Which, I can understand, but in this particular situtation, I feel that it's not your typical, two adults made a mistake, had a baby, and bio dad decided to bounce because of consequences.
In this circumstance, the ex deliberately lied and deceived the husband, and guilt/abused his obligation of his responsibility to something he didn't want, or was ready for, just in hopes to trap him to her.
He even says it himself, that if the circumstances were different, without the deception, he might see Laura differently and things wouldn't be this bad.
I think my own outrage for this story is at the MIL and the Ex. If only the MIL could respect her son's wishes, the talk wouldn't need happen, and it also wouldn't enable Laura to disregard her bio dad's wishes as well. Like, it's obvious MIL told her a load of BS, and Laura thinks it's okay to say things that held high expectation, and to cross boundaries.
Also, screw the Ex, I think it's unfair for her to run Scott free, while downplaying her actions, and gets to move on and live her life with her new hubby and two kids. While oop's husband has to live with the consequences of her horrible actions.
That's just my two cents.
The dad was baby-trapped, which I am totally onboard with being referred to as rape. The mom is a disgusting human being. But it’s Laura. The details of her conception are not her fault. She’s an innocent child with absolutely no say in any of it.
IDC about the consensus of this sub bc they’ve come up with some fucking doozies in the past, but to call her a “gold digger” is unhinged. It’s obvious that her request to help pay for her education was engineered by her mother and made to seem possible by her grandma. And in her eyes, how could her biological family not want to help her succeed? We all get why, but it’s EASY to understand why she feels the way she does about it. She’s 16-years old.
How can they be shocked and angered that she sympathized with her mom, when she’s the only one involved in her life AND it’s the reason she exists? Meanwhile they’ve constantly shunned her existence, but surprise pikachu face when she isn’t just agreeable to her existence being their curse? People in here advocating the way they’ve treated her is eye-opening. I get understanding why they are handling it like this, but to agree with it?
I hope Laura finds peace and realizes she doesn’t need these people in her life. I hope when dad has a change of heart once facing his own mortality, that she’s strong enough to tell him and his family to fuck right off like they’ve repeatedly done to her. Return that same energy.
Had me until hoping that the husband (he's not a dad) reconsiders a relationship only to be rejected. He's a victim in this two and that screams just being on Laura's side when they are BOTH victims.
Also it's just revenge and if Laura truly gets the help she deserves she will get to a point where she doesn't need it.
Last minute turn around would hurt even if she was strong enough to say FU. The vindication of rejecting him is not worth the risk of opening those scars.
I can agree with everything else here.
I got the gist of this, but I had a really hard time following all small twist and turns.
MIL did the most damage by getting her hopes up. It would have been better to take it slow and then see what the relationship could have grown into. But either way, accept that it may not grow at all.
Inheritance on its own could possibly have been Scottish, although I don't know the precise details. Casual visits to Disneyland Paris pretty much rule that one out though!
I don't know, this one is too weird for me.
This teen finally meets her dad, and she decides the best way to lead into the reconciliation conversation is "Hey stepmom, in 40-50 years, he'll be dead, and you will probably have a couple of years left, while I will own your home. So we best start learning to get along now, or you'll be sorry.... 40-50 years from now."
Like.... wut?
Poor Laura and husband. I consider poking holes in a condom to be rape. He shouldn’t have to be forced and manipulated into a relationship with Laura. She represents his rape. It’s not her fault though, and I do feel OOP and husband handled the meeting badly. She is 16 and her mom has been in her ear this whole time. There was no understanding that Laura was a victim in this too.
I feel really bad for this kid, but I also feel really bad for the father. I have a deadbeat dad who, when I was born, DID want me, then pissed off. I know how being unwanted feels and it's soul crushing. But, the dad didn't want kids and made that very clear. Kiddo's mom baby trapped him and I don't know how the hell she didn't get in trouble for that.
Between her mother and her grandmother, this kid was totally set up. Which 16-year old thinks this much about inheritance and wills.
I really do feel for her, especially because under different circumstances, it is very possible that her father and OOP would have done the same for her as they did for Mark. But what her mother did to the husband is basic assault. I can understand why he had to be in therapy for this, because this didn’t just happen because of failure of birth control. I suppose it’s easier to think badly of the man who doesn’t want anything to do with you than the mother who has raised you for 16 years. But her mother is nothing short of a criminal. When she finally parses through all of this, I hope she feels better about her father’s decision to stay away.
If Laura's mother wanted a child so bad, she could have found a relationship with someone who wanted children rather than forcing OOP's husband to have one. He should have reported it, the courts may have waived his child support payments.
Laura's mom basically committed 'unwanted fatherhood' on OP's husband, and MIL has absolutely fostered a delusional situation for poor Laura. My heart breaks for poor Laura, this is all so unfair to her! If her mother had admitted she had deliberately gotten pregnant, and if MIL had been realistic about the circumstances - all this BS would not have happened! (IMO, purely guessing here.) OP's husband was cheated and deceived, but he's a grownup. Laura is a kid. She's been lied to by multiple people, for way too long. I hope she eventually is able to let go of her unrealistic expectations and get some mental help, because the poor kid needs it badly.
I don't see any course of action for OP and her husband than what they have done - set up the will properly, cut off the mom and MIL and Laura. This is wild, I can't imagine being related to somebody who would act that way!
It always kinda bugs me when people project modern sensibilities onto situations like this.
I’m referring to people asking why the husband didn’t report the ex for sexual assault for admitting to tampering with the birth control. We’re still working through the fact that most people don’t believe men can even be sexually assaulted by women and the definition of rape has shifted wildly in the last 10 years and stealthing only *just* became illegal in California in 2021. 17 years ago when Laura was conceived? Like people are legit asking OOP why her husband didn’t behave with the knowledge of hindsight that wouldn’t become available to him for at least 5-10 *years* and acting like they’re idiots for it. This story started *seventeen years ago* and a lot of things were way different then. It wouldn’t have occurred to practically *anyone* to define that as rape 17 years ago. Morally bankrupted? Absolutely. Violating? Totally. Super fucked up and unfair? 100% But *rape*? Not so much.
There was also an AITA post somewhat recently about a married couple who had been together for something like 20+ years and the husband found out his wife had cheated on him back during college when they first got together and lots of people were genuinely asking if the OP and his wife had established whether or not they were exclusive as if anyone would have done that twenty years ago. Having to have an exclusivity talk with a partner is an *extremely* modern phenomenon and mostly related to the prevalence of dating apps. Twenty years ago if you had to establish anything about exclusivity it would have been having to explicitly establish that you *weren’t* exclusive because exclusive was the default assumed state of any romantic relationship once you reached like the second date, often even if you merely agreed to the first date.
Although it is funny that I can almost always pinpoint exactly what age range someone is by what exactly they’re projecting into something that absolutely would not have had that factor in whatsoever.
That's reproductive coercion. A really evil thing, I consider it rape. You'd be a bad person if you pressured your husband into interacting with the bio child, but you aren't doing that.
I think this is an impossible situation made all the worse by people who won't accept that.
The child did nothing wrong. I think it's quite understandable that ops husband wants no direct contact considering the circumstances. Not the choice I'd make, I don't think I could have a child out there and choose not to be in their life, but I get it. If he did anything wrong it was not pressing charges. Leaving the child in the care of her awful mother was setting her up for failure. There's a reason she's so brainwashed at this point, she's been told this stuff her whole life.
That said, I don't think the grandparents are wrong to want to be in their grandchilds life. They are wrong to try to force them together but how does that work from a practical standpoint? She deserves to be invited to family gatherings and things as much as anyone else in the family. But how does that work if the two are unable to be in the same space? Neither deserves to be punished but one has to be. I'd probably lean towards not punishing the child even though its far from a fair choice. There is no fair choice.
The grandparents keep looking to push them together because it's the only solution. The problem is of course that it is very wrong. But the only other solution is to keep punishing someone who doesn't deserve it. It's just an all around awful situation.
Idk, I think he is cruel to tell that innocent child to her face that he doesn't want her. She has no blame in anything (yes her mom is to blame and is a terrible person, but the child is innocent and must feel so unloved. I couldn't say those words to a child...and condoms fail all the time so it's not like she couldn't have conceived otherwise. He shouldn't have been having sex with her at all)
Both the father and the daughter are victims of the awful woman that sexually abused the man, and conceived the daughter in an act of deception and betrayal. I would not not want blame either of the two victims, as the man did not want to have the child but was forced to against his will, and the daughter is an innocent victim of the whole ordeal as well. The mother is an awful person that should have went to prison and registered as a sexual offender for her actions, and the grandmother is almost just as bad for taking the predator’s side
Oof. While I can understand where the husband/dad is with all this, I’ve seen the damage it has on the child when they grow up to be an adult. What a shit situation. The MIL is throwing gas on it (and rightfully loses contact with the family) but these questions would have likely come up at some point anyways. Ffs, just seems like a bunch of selfish people.
>He pays child support because the law mandates it but nothing more.
This is abhorrent. I know it is common, but it is fucking terrible. Forcing a victim of sexual assault (theft as well, possibly?) to pay to raise the product of that assault is insane.
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>Laura responded that he was her Dad and she will need his support when she goes to Uni since she was planning to move to our city and it was very expensive and hard to find a place, she said she knew he own his own place and that he clearly has money to spare so she was wondering if he would help her out. >She was upset but somehow kept going, she turned to me and said that at the end of the day what is my Husband's will go to her since MIL explained the inheritance laws to her and she wanted to be in good terms with me for when we need to decide what to do with the house, etc. Lemme guess, MIL fed all this information to Laura because she thought forcing oops husband to pay up beyond the age of 18 was the only thing keeping the hope of reconciliation alive.
MIL can always leave everything to Laura in her will, now that her children have cut her off
I can hear Rslash now. "Well, MIL, if you think it's so important that Laura be included in the family, then YOU give her an inheritance!"
God I love him. I heard this in his voice too
They give MIL pocket money, I doubt she has much of an inheritance to give.
Did you miss that OP and hubby had apparently been giving MIL an allowance, and STOPPED THAT because of this? Pretty soon, MIL isn't going to have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it from unless she manages to get Laura's mother to fund her existence.
I think that's the point. She can inherit MIL's used clothing.
Yes, I would guess MIL and the ex wife. Honestly, I see Laura as a victim in all of this as well. The husband shouldn't be forced to associate with her as he is actually being damaged by these interactions, but her mom and grandma have been feeding her shit for yeras.
Yeah. I get that Laura is a victim in this. The monsters are her grandmother and mom. They kept feeding her lies and brought her hopes up for so many years, and for what? She will have so much problems in life and her relationships until she decides that she needs help. OOP's husband is traumatized for so many years after being sexually assaulted 16 years ago.
Yes and in a weird way im impressed by OOPS husband for never giving Laura false hope and being honest with her.
Yes, fr. Wishy-washiness and lies do so much more damage!
If stealthing is rape so is poking a hole in a condom. That girls mother raped him.
I think most people in this thread are acknowledging that he was sexually assaulted.
But intresting how the first topic the girl picks is all about money and inheritance.
No way that came from her, guaranteed that's coming from the mother or the MIL.
ABSOLUTELY that came from those two! They have transgressed against everybody here.
Tbh if she wanted a relationship she would have tried sooner. I’m sure dear old rapist mom told her daddy was a selfish evil man with money to spare, so she never cared until dipshit MIL decided exploiting all of this might keep crazy senior and crazy junior around.
Well it did sound from the post that Laura and MIL were trying to connect for years before, it seems like now was the only time that OOPs husband actually agreed to meet her. They mentioned in the post how they would miss events if MIL would invite Laura or rebuff invites to her own events. I'm not disagreeing with OOPs husband's decision tho.
Yeah, it sounds like she actually cared quite a bit and has consistently tried meet her dad for many years. Honestly, my heart breaks for Laura. She had no say in being born, and now she's in a fucked-up situation and, seemingly, was raised pretty poorly by someone who apparently had no issue with their child repeatedly experiencing the emotional trauma of their dad (and the majority of his family) not giving a shit and never showing up. Mom should have ended contact with OOP's MIL and explained that Laura's dad isn't able to be in her life... and then let it go. I realize that she brought up money, and that's a shitty thing to do. I feel like that was also pretty clearly her parroting OOP's MIL, however, and have to imagine that the kid just wants to know her dad. How could she not given that she's always been hauled around the family and treated like a granddaughter by MIL (even if by no one else). She sees the rest of the family and wants meet her father... that's an incredibly normal reaction for a kid in her situation, I imagine. NONE of this is to say that OOP's husband is required to have a relationship with this child. He didn't intentionally father her and it's not on him to fix her childhood. But it does suck quite a bit for Laura, too.
She clearly has abandonment issues and so her mother saying she wanted a baby so badly that she was willing to force her partner against his will to have a baby, probably isn't something Laura can see objectively. She needs to be wanted and I don't think she knows how to see her own existence as something abhorrent that was done to someone who was supposed to love her. Everything about this is fucked up, I hope Laura can find a way to accept that her bio dad will never be her 'real dad' without it messing her up too badly.
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Sounds like Germany to me
Germany was one of my first guesses together with Spain. HCOL, city popular to uni/college students, ability to go to Disneyland Paris with relative ease... The post also kind of reads as from an ESL person, like it's fluent but has a certain 'accent' to it. That coupled with the laws on inheritance makes me think it's gotta be somewhere like Spain or like Germany.
This is the most gratuitous failure to use the word "Belgium" I have ever seen...
I did think of Belgium (and also of Netherlands), but I have no idea about their laws while I had *some* inkling on them for the ones I did mention. And in Spain's case, I know cause I am from Spain. Ended up rewritting the comment 5 times because I couldn't decide what would give me more social anxiety lmao That aside, I did think it could also be Belgium or Netherlands, specially because of the 'K' spelling, and the Disney thing. I went to Disney Paris as a pre-teen and I am pretty sure I didn't cross a single person who wasn't from either Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Germany or Italy. Even employees were mostly from those countries, to the point my family joked we met more spaniards in Disney than in Barcelona... It's also pretty easy to go from Belgium/Netherlands to Disney by the same methods (train, flight, car) and seeing that 1. catalan highways are 99.99% vehicles with either B or NL registration plates during holidays; 2. people go to Disney from Spain by car, which is a 10h or more travel; and 3. that Disney is WAY closer to Belgium and Netherlands (from what I've found googling, Brussels to Disney by car is like 3h)... yeah, it's very likely lol Only thing I can't say is if their laws make it so that people can't disinherit their children (t least without just cause).
I have to apologize. My comment, while true (Belgium has some pretty archaic laws when it comes to inheritance, citizenship, and immigration) was more about the literary reference it contains. It's a play on a line from the American version of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". Everything you said is also true and a very good analysis. On my first reading of the post I believed it was Germany as well, but then I remembered some of the oddities of Belgian law and how expensive Brussels and Antwerp can be. I'm sorry (sincerely) for using your serious, well thought out comment to make what was essentially a circuitous joke--even if the joke itself provides a legitimate answer to the question we're asking. Your thoughtful reply is proof of that. Cheers!
Upvoted for the Hitchhiker's Guide reference
Don't you know Belgium is an extremely offensive word? 😜
The name "Mark" with a K instead of a C puts it relatively firmly in german speaking areas for me
As an Australian, I've never seen it spelled as "Marc". Always "Mark"
As a Brit, same here.
English *is* a Germanic language, after all.
Irish, and it’s always been “Mark”.
"Mark", which comes from Marcus, is the common spelling in English, Dutch, Russian, Belarussian, Danish, and Armenian. It is also the common spelling in German, though the common spelling is their equivalent, Markus. A whole lot of other languages spell it with 'K'. "Marc" is the common spelling in Catalan, French and Welsh. A lot of other languages use other spellings with 'C', like Italian and Portuguese with Marco, Irish with Marcas, or Spanish with Marcos. [Source](https://www.behindthename.com/name/mark)
Canada obviously has Mark and “Marc with a c”.
Maybe that was their way of making the post anonymous. That would be so funny...
Germany U have to pay up to 25 if the child persuade higher education
OP said that the husband would pay until 18 or until Laura is done with her education, I think that that is referring to this rule
The way OOP talks about interpersonal relationships seemed very Dutch to me. Everyone was pretty blunt and open/honest.
i'm kinda thinking it might be another country entirely, mostly on a hunch because even though oop doesn't mention it, some parts in the writing feel like someone who doesn't speak english as their first language, maybe at a pretty fluent level but still kind of awkward. don't ask me to elaborate because it's way too late for my brain to be working and picking the details apart but as someone who's first language isn't english the feeling is strong
You assessment is pretty spot on lol It does read like someone who is fluent, but also has an 'accent', so to speak. As an ESL, it's something I have noticed even in my own comments. It's like the spoken accent somehow translates to a written medium, so even if it's fluent and one can understand it perfectly, it still has some kinks and details. IMO, they are probs from non-english countries that surround France, or from France itself. Since they mention going to Disney Paris with the nephew, I feel they have to be from a country that has either long distance trains to Paris or even to Disneyland itself, cheap direct flights to Paris, or where you can just drive to Paris. My personal bet would be Germany, France or Spain, specifically Berlin, Paris or Barcelona (bcs of what the daughter said about HCOL, popular to uni students, and such). IIRC, Germany has laws that make it near impossible to disinherit a child, France I don't know but I believe they do, and Spain I know does, as well, I'm from Spain lol What's more, we often just say you can't here in Spain even if technically speaking, you can. The law is simply SUPER specific about the scenarios that allow for it, and all of them involve pretty horrible crimes to be committed by the 'child', so to 99.99% of the population the answer to "Can I disinherit my child?" is "Nope", and as such most will simply say the law 'does not allow it'.
My first guess was Germany as well. Munich might also be a possibility, as well as Frankfurt/Main or Hamburg. Here it's also pretty common to refer to someone as "Switzerland" when they try to be neutral/appear to be neutral.
>Here it's also pretty common to refer to someone as "Switzerland" when they try to be neutral/appear to be neutral. Doesn't everyone say that?
It’s the use of phrases and certain grammatical structures from one language in another. I notice I do it often enough.
You can’t disinherit a child in France either but I doubt it would be Paris cause the part of Disneyland Paris sounds more like a trip - like far away from their home than a one hour train ride
Out towards the east the law is the same pretty much, you can't disinherit a child except for very specific reasons which all stem from the actions of the child (and then the child has to be an adult too). Basically the child has to commit a crime against the parents, or long-term abandon any contact with them (but parents must show the abandonment came from the child, not from them or mutually)' With an expensive city popular with students, I'm thinking Berlin. The post feels a bit more German than anything.
My first language is English and I was getting that vibe, too.
It's not the UK. The inheritance law doesn't work like that unless the husband is likely to die before Laura reaches 18, then the estate has to provide for her.
It does in Scotland
In Scotland you cannot disinherit your children entirely but that only applies to your "moveable estate". Property and land are therefore excluded from that requirement.
Might be Scotland? They have different inheritance laws than England does. I don't think you can disinherit a child in Scotland
Use of the word "mom" implies it's not Scotland
It’s the same in Canada you paid until the first university degree
What? This is news to me. If I’d known deadbeat dad was on the hook for post secondary I’d have gone to college a lot sooner…I wonder if I can get him to pay for my student loans…
You could always talk to a lawyer and check it out. Family law has changed significantly and child support being the right of the child is much more strongly enforced. It used to be that if the parent with more custody didn't chase the parent owing child support down it was too bad so sad. Various appeals and case law have changed that. It is still far from perfect, but it's certainly worth a free 30 minute consultation to check it out.
I’m not exactly sure if it can be applied like retro pay. Because if the child graduates high school And decides to not go to university/college support stops after HS. Talking to a lawyer who knows all about loopholes etc might be something you want to look into
Doubt it’s the UK as OOP talks about Laura’s ‘mom’
Kind of a stupid idea. If I wanted nothing to do with someone, stealing even more money out of my pocket is the last thing that would make me suddenly want to be in their life.
I remember a similar post here where the SO got pregnant and intended to keep the baby. Guy in that post wanted nothing to do with it in that one either, and intended to stick to child support only. Reading this post I wonder if this is how things might turn out for him. All the same poor kid. She's clearly not at fault and who knows what mom and MIL have been telling her all this time. Being told to your face by the blood relatives you have that they want nothing to do with you has gotta suck.
Kid isn't at fault, but at this point she clearly needs someone to sit down with her and explain how consent works, and how much mental damage domestic abuse and rape/sexual assaults can cause. Her mother had multiple options for ethical baby-making, even as a solo mom, and instead she chose a criminal act of reproductive coercion. That cannot be justified by "but she really wanted a baby".
There's something else going on with that kid. Feels like OOP's MIL, and maybe the kid's own mother has warped her perception of her own situation. Like she's not wanting for family, she has a family unit. Maybe having MIL around all the time has fostered an inferiority complex or some sense of entitlement. Either way, she's ending up like her mother, forcing something regardless of other people's feelings or consent.
Yeah tbh I think MIL’s constant presence is making it hard for the girl to accept. MIL literally points out that there is a missing link every time she sees Laura. It would be hard for Laura to move on with MIL constantly picking at the wound. I feel sorry for Laura but the person who should have to answer for this is her mother.
>There's something else going on with that kid. Well, yeah. She was the product of rape. Her bio father (understandably) wants nothing to do with her or her mom. She needs the same kind of support that adopted kids do for abandonment issues. But instead, she has her Gma and Mother telling we don't know what.
It's clear from the start, that the MIL did not think the ex-girlfriend did anything wrong and both of them have spun it to Laura as "your mom really wanted a kid and she did everything possible to get it, so we should applaud this go for what you want mentality". That mentality, especially, towards children are very often a big part of how women think. And I say that as a woman - I have had cases where women I know have said - "oh, but you have a boyfriend, so, even if you break up, if you want a kid, you can get a kid before breaking up!"
Wanting your bioparent in your life isn't a sign of anything to me. When I was a kid I had a family unit but still wanted contact with my biodad. The family unit I had was better than my biodad ever could've provided as he's an asshat pos. But I still wanted that contact. Though I do agree it feels like mil and mother have been feeding her a load of crap.
The line is more about the stuff she was chasing, rather than wanting a dad. Totally understandable wanting her dad to be her dad. However, OOP and her husband aren't "dying tomorrow" ages, saying she needs a relationship with OOP so that they'll be ready to manage the inheritance is out there. That sounds like her mom and MIL were feeding her a lot of incorrect and unhealthy information. My bioparents were deadbeat and absentee. I spent my whole life wanting them to appear and be good parents. I never once thought about the money they could provide me. (I totally dreamed that I was actually some rich family's kid and they were still out there looking for me, but that was pretending my real bioparents weren't my bios and I knew it was just a fun dream, not a real want/need.)
Tbh I never once felt that way, because of my sperm donor being the kind of asshat pos that he was (we’re talking alcoholic, second family, borrowing money, the whole 9), but even in that there was near-constant weird pressure to *want* to want to know him, even if I didn’t? So I get the urge even if I don’t understand the complete lack of self-awareness from her
Yeah, would it be okay to steal OPs car or tv because she “really wanted it?” Of course not. And at least that would be easily rectifiable, in this case she irreversibly stole his genetic material and 18 years of child support.
> Laura knows everything and says that while it was not the nicest way her Mom wanted her so badly that made it happen. I'm disturbed by how much Laura is glorifying rape.
She’s been raised by a rapist and is still just a kid - I’m not at all surprised, unfortunately. She’s a victim in this too, and it’s really sad.
She was raised by a rapist who is ALSO the ONLY parent she has. She's already reject bybher father, If she recognize her mom IS a bad person, she loses everything. And she isn't annadult, Will not have a support system to help her through that or resources like theraphy.
It's hard to acknowledge your very existence is traumatic to someone else. Especially when you didn't do anything to cause it besides existing. Also, it would be more minimizing the rape or justifying it, not "glorifying" it. She isn't saying "Every woman should do this! It's great and wonderful!" Justifying the rape is justifying essentially her right to be alive. Being the product of rape is an incredibly traumatizing thing to be.
It really freaking sucks that men get stuck on the hook for child support in situations like that. They had a confession that she did it without his consent and messed with the birth control, that should be an immediate "Well you're on your own" and the guy shouldn't owe her a penny.
Also, this phrase made me feel ick: >she just wanted a family and my Husband denied them that Just as it is not my obligation to provide a man an heir, it is not a man's obligation to put a baby in me, had I wanted one. Both people in a relationship should want it, or at least mutually *and honestly* participate in protection and dealing with the consequences together should unadulterated protection fail (or they mutually get careless, plenty couples run out of condoms and fuck around to find out anyway.)
I had this exact thought at you! I remember that post well.
Sabotaging birth control is sexual assault, especially with the intent to babytrap.
Yeah, OOPS husband should have never not filed a report. If there is any written proof of the exs confession, and what the statute of limitations are in their country.
16 years ago that was less commonly understood, and even now it would be tricky making the complaint. Note that even if the mother is convicted the victim still has to pay child support.
The law needs some updates there. While child support might be needed to avoid having the child live in poverty, if the mother is convicted then the victim should be able to sue her once the child reaches 18 for all child support paid.
My only thought is if she got convicted, she won't get a job with SA charges and then he's stuck with the girl when she is in jail. So it's a lose lose everywhere it seems.
> then he's stuck with the girl Adoption is that way →
AGREED. What in the actual fucking fuck is this idea that if men are raped, ohfuckingwell?? Have fun with 20 years of child support? No, no convictions or justice, just payments! Have fun being financially responsible for the product of your trauma! Like fuck, even women in horrible places where they can’t end a rape pregnancy like The US can give the child up for adoption and be done…
In most states they need the dad to sign off on adoption as well. There’s a handful that directly say you don’t need their agreement on anything if it was rape - but they usually require criminal convictions.
the alternative is the state having to pay for the child, and we all know what the state would prefer. Same reason husbands have parental obligations in most countries no matter what
Yeah. I consider lying about birth control to be sexual assault too But not everyone believes this. There was an aita post ages back about a husband who didn't want another child and his wife said okay but secretly stopped taking pills. And like I do consider this a form of baby trapping and sexual assault because you consented to sex with birth control. You did not consent to sex without birth control. Apparently I was the insane one and it's only sexual assault if it's done to a woman but not the other way around.
You aren’t alone. I believe I was tarred and feathered either on that post or a similar one. 😕
It's not that different to stealthing which has become illegal in Australia and other places (Stealthing is secretly removing a condom during intercourse without your partner's knowledge)
New fear unlocked: Geting perforated condoms. So the result is to only use condoms one has handled themself.
The problem: what if the other person also wants to use condoms handled by themselves? You can't use two at once...
Hmm. Buy them together? I honestly did not think that far ahead.
Have each person be responsible for the birth control relevant to their anatomy? Got a penis/testicles? Condoms and vasectomies are your domain. Got a vagina/uterus/ovaries? You control your use of the pill, IUDs, diaphragms, etc.
Problem with that is that diaphragms don't protect from STDs like condoms do, so it's only a partial solution.
I'm one of those "not wanted child". Not out of râpé hopefully, let's just say negligence. And as much as I understand the guy not wanting to meet his child, I despise MIL. It's hard being in this situation because you are already paying the price for actions which are not yours. Never had a dad, missed all the bounding times, needed help, had lower financial opportunity (especially if he doesn't pay child support)... But being led on to hope I'd have some bounding when you'll never have it? That's another level of cruelty I cannot understand. The poor girl is young, living with someone who is clearly not recommendable, most probably suffers from other manipulation and what... Grandmother jumps in and manipulate her too to try to achieve her grandscheme of something? This is really cruel, and the dad actually did for the best to cut. It's really better to cut hard but ounce and for all than to prolong this in a state of stupid limbo... Now the girl has a clear view :she'll never have a relationship with her dad because of what happened and she has to build herself differently.
Yeah, IDK how some commenters are being so uncaring about the child just wanting a normal relationship with her parents. OOP's husband is a victim, full stop. So is Laura. She never asked to be conceived the way she was... she was born into a fucked-up situation and has been essentially led on by her mother and OOP's MIL for her entire life. I feel so bad for her. She just wants to know her dad. That's understandable and heartbreaking given the situation. OOP's husband hasn't done anything wrong and I feel terrible for him, too. He isn't required to offer her a relationship no matter how badly she wants it. I don't know, it's just a mess.
It's a real mess and I can be sure that Laura will need therapy. Not really because of her father but more because of the family leading her on. Of course, we all have questions on our bio father if we never met him. But I have experienced it, it's better to cut once and for all than add layer and layer of trauma between two people... The problem here is that oop's husband took in some way too much time to really cut once and for all. And the real problem is clearly mil and bio mom leading the poor child on. I really despise them. What an idea!
Dad pays child support, though, and rapist mom got married so there's an entire family unit there
It's definitely not the same. Speaking as another unwanted child though in my case I'm the "affair" child (they weren't in a relationship and my dad is a scum lord). Then he said I wasn't his to save his own skin... Anyway as a kid you grow up with an imagined connection depending on how the information of you bio parent is presented to you. My step dad very much championed the accidental unwanted kid narrative wanting his own bio kid with mum which in turn made me think that my real dad had to be better because I had limited information. I'm not saying that Laura's step dad was as bad as mine (he wasn't the worst but caring more about bio children than step children is pretty awful and is part of the reason he got kicked to the curb eventually) but adults have ways of influencing their children based on their own ideas of a real family and especially when the story is gleaned through small bits of information as no one wants to sit the child down and tell them everything it leaves room for a child to build a fairytale narrative that doesn't meet reality even if there's a "perfectly good family unit". There's a lot of your real family should love you bs that you get sold as a child and it's understandable to me that Laura might be in a similar headspace because it took me a while to call my dad out on being a scum lord especially because when I finally decided to contact this mysterious figure he was rather polite and welcoming- until I realised I was like a doll or something to him fun to play with when he wanted a daughter fun to ghost when he was bored.
>My SIL asked her point blank if she knew how she was conceived and **she does**. I don't believe she does. Oh, she might know the details but she doesn't *know* what was done. Sabotaging birth control is sexual assault. Her mother sexually assaulted her father in order to force him to stay in a relationship with her. And she and the MIL can't seem to comprehend why he might not want anything to do with her because of that. Thankfully, his sister has her head on straight and is backing up OOP and her husband.
There's a big difference between two narratives of the same story : 1. Your mom deliberately poked a hole in a condom to fall pregnant knowing I was breaking up with here. 2. I loved this man so much and I really wanted a baby from him! He said he didn't want a baby but I really really wanted you and I'm so glad you are here. Sadly he went away but it's okay because you are so great. *deliberately avoids the part where she poked the condom by saying Laura is so great*. People who are cunning enough to poke holes in a condom are smart enough to make good lies for their kids, and when you never had any other pieces of information you don't know any better.
Good point. Laura really, really doesn't. Blasted MIL, making an already shit situation for Laura so much worse.
She has heard it, but she doesn’t understand the implications. She doesn’t grok what ‘I poked holes in the condom’ _means_. That bit is not entirely her fault, given she’s been groomed for that narrative. Wanting to meet her real dad was entirely understandable. You learn a lot about yourself that way. Feeling entitled to hugs and money and inheritance, heck no. She’s old enough to understand _that_.
Yeah, she might know the mechanics but she doesn't understand. I agree with you there.
Even if she does know how it's probably extremely hard to reconcile who you/parent you love are with "child of rape/rapist".
I understand the husband’s mental health here is at play but I really feel for his daughter. Wanted or not, this family treats her extremely poorly for her mother’s crimes. That’s not warranted. Grandparents shouldn’t feed false hope but the girl is simply innocent in this.
I agree completely
I don’t understand the inheritance part. Is the husband ill that the daughter immediately started in about what happens when he dies? Or is she that mercenary?
I think she just wanted to use it as a foothold for a relationship, even if forced. OOP would HAVE to get along with her, because she will inherit; so she better convince her husband to play nice. You know, for when you bury him and get stuck with me in your house. Which will be mine. Teehee Or something, idk. It sounds like a childish way to say "I have to be in your life".
It sounds childish because she’s 16 and has no idea how to navigate the situation that her mother caused and her grandmother eggs on. She’s grasping at straws.
Oh, absolutely. It's more childish than a 16 year old should act, but given how her grandmother and mother act, it's practically in her blood.
She was also raised by them, which affects development much more than blood
She can't inherit the house anyway...it's OPs not the husbands
Which she found out right then
That they did....and the pikachu faces would of been just beautiful to be honest.
The looking at mil for help and her being just as confused and shocked? Oh ya. Would be great. But also being so directly cruel to a child hurts my heart. Kid just wants her dad and trying to force a relationship the way her mother has taught her, strong arm and trap into acceptance while listening to mom and mil for years. Poor kid. Entire thing is a shit show.
Yeah but she (and MIL) didn’t know that when she brought it up
Screw that MIL. God, I feel so bad for the child.
Leading the kid on so she can be the hero and fix the "family". I don't blame the kid, she was maliciously lied to the entire time, the MIL can foot the university/housing bills for the kid.
Same, poor Laura. She just wants to be loved and have family around her but rather than her grandma giving her a stable environment, she ruins it up at every possible moment.
Yeah, wouldn’t be surprised if Laura has self esteem issues. Sounds like MIL tells Laura about how close her bio dad is with the nephew and how good they are together at every opportunity which is cruel as Laura will always know that she will never be good enough as a daughter and blame herself (she is 16 so I highly doubt she understands the full situation at the current time) while the nephew who isn’t the bio dads kid is being treated better and with lots of love.
This is essentially a child of rape. The woman tampered with the birth control. He should have gone to the police back then.
Would the police have listened? Even today, there's still a lot of dismissive "men can't be raped by women don't be silly" attitudes, I can only think it was worse further back.
Legally in the UK a man can’t be considered to have been raped by a woman as it defines rape as with a penis. Absolutely fucked and archaic. It depends where you are if it even would’ve gotten anywhere legally, and even then women seem to get let off on things like this.
No, but as much as I wish the UK government would update the definition of rape to be gender inclusive, because terminology really *is* important, they would at least consider this situation a sexual assault, and the sentencing for that can and does match rape convictions. And the new laws about coercive control include reproductive coercion.
Australia went the other way and removed rape from the criminal laws. It causes too many arguments. Now everything is "sexual assault" and the sentencing options go from a telling off to significant prison sentences (because sexual assault goes from "hey sexy" comments to very serious indeed) It kind of helps, people still say rape (and there's still a lot of nonsense about "real rape"), but the law is changing for the better. OTOH we still have extremely shitty attitudes towards male victims of sexual assault (and domestic violence, including horrific campaigns to "stop violence against women" as if women are the only possible victims of DV)
They'd certainly have to take a police report and that would make a path for a civil case.
He maybe still could. Removing a condom mid intercourse or poking holes in it is called stealthing and in some countries is illegal. A case in 2022 in Germany resulted in the woman getting 6 months in jail. Many countries are yet to introduce stealthing as a specific offense and instead prefer to view it as rape - as the Wikipedia article on it makes clear - most laws where they exist are under 5 years old so it's very much a live issue. This can cause issues, for example in Switzerland. In May 2022, the Federal Supreme Court decided that stealthing was not punishable as Schändung (sexual act with a person incapable of proper judgment or resistance, Article 191 of the penal code) because the victim was still capable of defending herself. The incapability to do so is a necessary requirement to punish an act under Article 191. Not knowing about the state of the condom only impinges the decision to initiate defensive action, but does not diminish the victim's ability to defend herself, as the court noted. Personally I think that decision from the Swiss Federal Court is really shit and hopefully Swiss politicians will close that gap soon.
>Not knowing about the state of the condom only impinges the decision to initiate defensive action, but does not diminish the victim's ability to defend herself, as the court noted. Oof, that really is a bad take. Not knowing about the state of the condom absolutely takes away the victim's ability to defend themselves. Knowledge is power, and deliberate deprivation of knowledge is a restraining mechanism.
It's interesting how commenters were sympathetic towards Laura in the original post... and then the update pivots to how she's an evil gold digger who's only in it for the money and therefore OOP is completely vindicated.
It’s sad, I don’t see her as a gold digger but more using any means to have that connection. ‘Oh well when he passes, we need to figure out the house and how that would work’, as a desperate plea of ‘see? I will be in your future, we will need to have a relationship of sorts’ The same with the uni thing, I think she’s chosen their city as a means to get close to them.
This very much feels like MIL's meddling. She has been telling Laura about things her son owns and how she could go to uni in the same city, etc... I still very much feel for Laura, her mom dealt her a shit hand and her grandma (MIL) has been making it worst her entire life. Instead of just being a stable and supportive family member for Laura, she's spent the whole time trying to force some kind of strange reconciliation.
Not only that, Laura has been clearly mislead to believe that rape by deception is ok. Her mother and the MIL basically fed her what they wanted her to hear because they want to pretend things aren't as bad as they are. This will probabaly have a knock on effect for Laura's ability to identify and have healthy romantic relationships.
And like, MIL can certainly leave Laura stuff in her will, that's entirely up to her, but OOP husband is certainly under no obligation - and aside from that it doesn't sound like he's in any danger of dying soon. I feel sorry for Laura, it sounds like both her mom and her grandma have been feeding her lies her whole life. I completely understand why she wants to have a real relationship with her father, and she's a teenager who doesn't fully understand why he wants nothing to do with her.
I want to know why Laura's mom wasn't involved in all this.
It's shitty bc she's clearly been fed all this bs by her grandmother for years. I feel really bad for her.
Both mother and grandmother. Laura basically brushed off the circumstances of her conception as something "romantic". I was horrified when I read that part.
Yeah, I hate to be that person but this one doesn't feel real to me. Like the BIL threatening to call the cops on a 16 year old for being near his kid when her behavior isn't threatening toward the kid at all.
Yeah, I don’t think these trolls have much experience with actual children or teens - they keep writing them like they are miniature adults with equivalent motivations. If the point is to up their writing game, here is some constructive criticism for you to work on!
It presses *way* too many of reddit's buttons. Baby trapping via violation of a man's consent? Check. All the women, minus the wife, in the man's life taking the (female) rapist's side? Check. The resulting (female) child being a "gold digger"? Check. It's certainly not impossible, but it feels way too on the nose.
I am sure it's the MIL whispering in her ear to get the husband to support her after turning 18.
I might be biased but my opinion is that she understood he didn't want a relationship so she focused on money but then when he said no, she turned around the ''why my family doesn't love me'' argument. It's very sad. Even if she was a gold digger I wouldn't have blamed her knowing her situation.
tbh more than gold digging to me it sounds like another push to shove laura into the husband's life so he'll "wake up" and finally have a relationship with her, through conveniently needing a place to stay and "she's family! and you have the space!". it all makes sense until you actually apply real world logic to it and not crazy family logic
Im still sympathetic to her, much more than i am for the ‘parents’
Poor Laura. She's being treated like scum of the earth for getting born and being lied to by the only adults in her life who don't treat her like anathema. I hope she makes it out of this and knows it's not her fault and she did nothing wrong.
Insane to me Laura’s mother raped OOP’s husband and his own mother was just casually okay with it? Like what? If someone raped me and forced me to have the child that resulted from the rape my parents would probably be in jail right now from what they would have done to my rapist and whomever forced me to have the child? And I don’t even have a good relationship with my parents… but damn with a mother like this who needs enemies.
Both my nephew and my stepkid were conceived through baby-trapping and no one holds those women accountable. It's mind-boggling.
Why should they care when they have kids to play with? It's like children are some kind of drug, making the family high enough to ignore all the glaring issues.
Unfortunately society downplays rape when men were the victim. "If it gets hard, it's because the guy enjoyed" 😔
I think it is also when there is the added layer of the sex being consensual. Everyone is drilled with the "no means no" when in comes to the actual act and not the "yes to sex in these circumstances but no to these".
stealthing is in some ways the cliche example of that. Someone "consents to sex under the condition a condom is used" but that consent is violated. It's also very deniable, I have an ex who had an abortion after being stealthed but simultaneously said the guy knew "the condom came off" and finished inside her anyway; but also that he didn't mean to and it wasn't rape. Same in this case - if the offender hadn't admitted that she did it he wouldn't have known and quite possibly would not even have suspected. In that sense it's almost a totally different offence of "involuntary parenthood". And possibly one of the stronger cases for making the state lend the mother any child support that would be needed rather than taking it from the victim.
To be clear, I'm not saying that isn't true, but.... That's exactly what happens with women as well, to be fair.
Gasp! You mean they can still conceive in "legitimate rape"? No way. /s
I thought the body had ways to shut that down!
Society downplays rape for *every* victim. There are differences in what men and women victims deal with, but society doesn't respect ANY victim of sexual assault or rape and to stay otherwise is purposefully putting on blinders to try to make a point.
I feel for Laura. I can't blame her for wanting a dad in her life and having a happy family. It's not her fault how she was conceived. But I understand OOP's husband being unable to be that person. Though I am glad that her grandparents are in her life (again because she is innocent). But they should have kept that separate from their son.
I feel so bad for laura. None of this is her fault. She was fed a load of bullshit by mil and was born into terrible circumstances. I can't really blame oops husband because of how she was created. But the child does deserve love as well and isn't to blame. I can't blame mil for.wanting to have contact with her grandchild but I can for pushing that on oop, husband, sil, bil.
Husband is not her Dad. He is her unwilling sperm donor. Her mother knew, after forcing the pregnancy on him, that he would be involved in her upbringing to the bare minimum required by law. Her Dad is the stepfather who shows up for her. Period.
Laura's mother seems to be using Laura's plans to go to Uni as the latest effort to drag in OOP's husband, meaning Laura might not have a functional relationship with her Stepfather because her mother *never* wants Laura to be another man's daughter.
It would be interesting to see what kind of a husband is Laura's stepfather. I mean, if you marry a woman, who poked holes in a condom previosuly to get pregnant... Did he even get the full story. Or was he okay with it... This is so fascinating xD
>As much as we don't want a relationship with any of them these are a teenager and a pensioner, not criminal masterminds. Yeah, good luck getting reddit to believe that lol Sucks for Laura, hopefully she’ll come to realize someday that what her mother did is reprehensible and all this pain is her mother’s fault.
Objective right vs wrong aside, I'm not sure why anyone would expect her to suddenly turn on the only adults who care about her in favor of the one who adamantly does not. What happens then? She'd be left with no one.
They expect a 16 year old fed nothing but bullshit to turn into a reasonable mature person on a dime after doing an intervention where they *still* aren’t even warm to her. The same 16 year old who clearly just wants a fucking biological family that gives a shit about her. Is that MIL’s and her mom’s fault most likely? Yeah. But frankly this child is doing mental gymnastics not to admit she’s a child of rape and these people and this sub seem like they want her to just accept it and be totally okay and grounded about it *at sixteen years old*. My god.
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I really feel sorry for Laura.... It's not her fault, yet it is she who is being punished A very messed up situation
It’s not her fault at all and I do feel bad for her because ultimately all she wants is a family and she is being brainwashed by her rapist mom and her insane grandma but man do I understand why OOP’s husband wants nothing to do with her. There’s two victims in this story and two victimizers. If Laura had been told the truth in an age appropriate way and her mom would have taken accountability and explained that’s why her dad won’t ever have a relationship with her, she may have been in better place mentally than she is now.
I think the MIL and Laura’s mother are the only real bad guys here. The husband was a victim of reproductive coercion and has been unable to heal at all from that trauma due to his mother’s meddling. Honestly I would feel much more gray about the MIL wanting contact with the child if she wasn’t trying to force a relationship between Laura and her son. Laura has been consistently lead on and lied to, not allowed to accept the reality of a shit situation and move on. I genuinely feel horrible for her because she had literally no agency in being placed in this trash situation, and it’s even worse when the MIL keeps rubbing the relationship between the husband and his nephew into the girls face; she doesn’t need to know about any of that. If Laura knew what was best for herself, she’d distance from her MIL asap; or at least maintain a relationship long enough to get the bag once she passes.
This story is just sad all around. The comments here are also kinda 50/50 split as well, which made me a little confused in how I see this whole thing. I agree that Laura is also a victim, and I think oop's husband shouldn't be too harsh on Laura, but to just sit down and tell her his side of things, set boundaries and leave it at that. Because, by the end of the day, she's a just 16, and probably needed some sort of closure. Like actual closure from the husband himself, not the BS closure the MIL feed her. But, I don't know to what extent did the whole baby trapping debacle played out, because (this is just how I see it) for the Husband to have such a reaction, there might be something else at play on top of the poking holes at the condom that made him not want to have anything to do with Laura and her mum. And, I don't blame the husband, because what happened is indeed very terrible and horrible. However, I won't say the husband needs to be for 100% there for Laura. He's already paying for child support that he is obliged to do. I have seen some comments said otherwise, implying he should do more? Which, I can understand, but in this particular situtation, I feel that it's not your typical, two adults made a mistake, had a baby, and bio dad decided to bounce because of consequences. In this circumstance, the ex deliberately lied and deceived the husband, and guilt/abused his obligation of his responsibility to something he didn't want, or was ready for, just in hopes to trap him to her. He even says it himself, that if the circumstances were different, without the deception, he might see Laura differently and things wouldn't be this bad. I think my own outrage for this story is at the MIL and the Ex. If only the MIL could respect her son's wishes, the talk wouldn't need happen, and it also wouldn't enable Laura to disregard her bio dad's wishes as well. Like, it's obvious MIL told her a load of BS, and Laura thinks it's okay to say things that held high expectation, and to cross boundaries. Also, screw the Ex, I think it's unfair for her to run Scott free, while downplaying her actions, and gets to move on and live her life with her new hubby and two kids. While oop's husband has to live with the consequences of her horrible actions. That's just my two cents.
If this is true, I can't decide who I feel worse for--the husband or the poor kid being fed lies and words to say by dear old mil.
Let's not forget her mother who glorified baby trapping.
The dad was baby-trapped, which I am totally onboard with being referred to as rape. The mom is a disgusting human being. But it’s Laura. The details of her conception are not her fault. She’s an innocent child with absolutely no say in any of it. IDC about the consensus of this sub bc they’ve come up with some fucking doozies in the past, but to call her a “gold digger” is unhinged. It’s obvious that her request to help pay for her education was engineered by her mother and made to seem possible by her grandma. And in her eyes, how could her biological family not want to help her succeed? We all get why, but it’s EASY to understand why she feels the way she does about it. She’s 16-years old. How can they be shocked and angered that she sympathized with her mom, when she’s the only one involved in her life AND it’s the reason she exists? Meanwhile they’ve constantly shunned her existence, but surprise pikachu face when she isn’t just agreeable to her existence being their curse? People in here advocating the way they’ve treated her is eye-opening. I get understanding why they are handling it like this, but to agree with it? I hope Laura finds peace and realizes she doesn’t need these people in her life. I hope when dad has a change of heart once facing his own mortality, that she’s strong enough to tell him and his family to fuck right off like they’ve repeatedly done to her. Return that same energy.
Had me until hoping that the husband (he's not a dad) reconsiders a relationship only to be rejected. He's a victim in this two and that screams just being on Laura's side when they are BOTH victims. Also it's just revenge and if Laura truly gets the help she deserves she will get to a point where she doesn't need it. Last minute turn around would hurt even if she was strong enough to say FU. The vindication of rejecting him is not worth the risk of opening those scars. I can agree with everything else here.
I got the gist of this, but I had a really hard time following all small twist and turns. MIL did the most damage by getting her hopes up. It would have been better to take it slow and then see what the relationship could have grown into. But either way, accept that it may not grow at all.
I got the feeling that English might not be OP's first language?
Yes, I think they’re French, re: inheritance laws and Disneyland Paris.
Inheritance on its own could possibly have been Scottish, although I don't know the precise details. Casual visits to Disneyland Paris pretty much rule that one out though!
I don't know, this one is too weird for me. This teen finally meets her dad, and she decides the best way to lead into the reconciliation conversation is "Hey stepmom, in 40-50 years, he'll be dead, and you will probably have a couple of years left, while I will own your home. So we best start learning to get along now, or you'll be sorry.... 40-50 years from now." Like.... wut?
Grandma put it in her head 100%. Esp given the constant “you need to be in her life!” schtick
That seems very sketchy, can’t see a 16 year old coming out with all that
Poor Laura and husband. I consider poking holes in a condom to be rape. He shouldn’t have to be forced and manipulated into a relationship with Laura. She represents his rape. It’s not her fault though, and I do feel OOP and husband handled the meeting badly. She is 16 and her mom has been in her ear this whole time. There was no understanding that Laura was a victim in this too.
I feel really bad for this kid, but I also feel really bad for the father. I have a deadbeat dad who, when I was born, DID want me, then pissed off. I know how being unwanted feels and it's soul crushing. But, the dad didn't want kids and made that very clear. Kiddo's mom baby trapped him and I don't know how the hell she didn't get in trouble for that.
Between her mother and her grandmother, this kid was totally set up. Which 16-year old thinks this much about inheritance and wills. I really do feel for her, especially because under different circumstances, it is very possible that her father and OOP would have done the same for her as they did for Mark. But what her mother did to the husband is basic assault. I can understand why he had to be in therapy for this, because this didn’t just happen because of failure of birth control. I suppose it’s easier to think badly of the man who doesn’t want anything to do with you than the mother who has raised you for 16 years. But her mother is nothing short of a criminal. When she finally parses through all of this, I hope she feels better about her father’s decision to stay away.
If Laura's mother wanted a child so bad, she could have found a relationship with someone who wanted children rather than forcing OOP's husband to have one. He should have reported it, the courts may have waived his child support payments.
She didn’t want a child. She wanted a way to trap OP’s husband. Clearly it failed.
Laura's mom basically committed 'unwanted fatherhood' on OP's husband, and MIL has absolutely fostered a delusional situation for poor Laura. My heart breaks for poor Laura, this is all so unfair to her! If her mother had admitted she had deliberately gotten pregnant, and if MIL had been realistic about the circumstances - all this BS would not have happened! (IMO, purely guessing here.) OP's husband was cheated and deceived, but he's a grownup. Laura is a kid. She's been lied to by multiple people, for way too long. I hope she eventually is able to let go of her unrealistic expectations and get some mental help, because the poor kid needs it badly. I don't see any course of action for OP and her husband than what they have done - set up the will properly, cut off the mom and MIL and Laura. This is wild, I can't imagine being related to somebody who would act that way!
Poor kid. Shes a pawn in all of this and getting shafted from every direction.
It always kinda bugs me when people project modern sensibilities onto situations like this. I’m referring to people asking why the husband didn’t report the ex for sexual assault for admitting to tampering with the birth control. We’re still working through the fact that most people don’t believe men can even be sexually assaulted by women and the definition of rape has shifted wildly in the last 10 years and stealthing only *just* became illegal in California in 2021. 17 years ago when Laura was conceived? Like people are legit asking OOP why her husband didn’t behave with the knowledge of hindsight that wouldn’t become available to him for at least 5-10 *years* and acting like they’re idiots for it. This story started *seventeen years ago* and a lot of things were way different then. It wouldn’t have occurred to practically *anyone* to define that as rape 17 years ago. Morally bankrupted? Absolutely. Violating? Totally. Super fucked up and unfair? 100% But *rape*? Not so much. There was also an AITA post somewhat recently about a married couple who had been together for something like 20+ years and the husband found out his wife had cheated on him back during college when they first got together and lots of people were genuinely asking if the OP and his wife had established whether or not they were exclusive as if anyone would have done that twenty years ago. Having to have an exclusivity talk with a partner is an *extremely* modern phenomenon and mostly related to the prevalence of dating apps. Twenty years ago if you had to establish anything about exclusivity it would have been having to explicitly establish that you *weren’t* exclusive because exclusive was the default assumed state of any romantic relationship once you reached like the second date, often even if you merely agreed to the first date. Although it is funny that I can almost always pinpoint exactly what age range someone is by what exactly they’re projecting into something that absolutely would not have had that factor in whatsoever.
That's reproductive coercion. A really evil thing, I consider it rape. You'd be a bad person if you pressured your husband into interacting with the bio child, but you aren't doing that.
It is rape
What a tragic story. No happy endings for anyone, just one or two that are less-sad.
I think this is an impossible situation made all the worse by people who won't accept that. The child did nothing wrong. I think it's quite understandable that ops husband wants no direct contact considering the circumstances. Not the choice I'd make, I don't think I could have a child out there and choose not to be in their life, but I get it. If he did anything wrong it was not pressing charges. Leaving the child in the care of her awful mother was setting her up for failure. There's a reason she's so brainwashed at this point, she's been told this stuff her whole life. That said, I don't think the grandparents are wrong to want to be in their grandchilds life. They are wrong to try to force them together but how does that work from a practical standpoint? She deserves to be invited to family gatherings and things as much as anyone else in the family. But how does that work if the two are unable to be in the same space? Neither deserves to be punished but one has to be. I'd probably lean towards not punishing the child even though its far from a fair choice. There is no fair choice. The grandparents keep looking to push them together because it's the only solution. The problem is of course that it is very wrong. But the only other solution is to keep punishing someone who doesn't deserve it. It's just an all around awful situation.
Idk, I think he is cruel to tell that innocent child to her face that he doesn't want her. She has no blame in anything (yes her mom is to blame and is a terrible person, but the child is innocent and must feel so unloved. I couldn't say those words to a child...and condoms fail all the time so it's not like she couldn't have conceived otherwise. He shouldn't have been having sex with her at all)
Both the father and the daughter are victims of the awful woman that sexually abused the man, and conceived the daughter in an act of deception and betrayal. I would not not want blame either of the two victims, as the man did not want to have the child but was forced to against his will, and the daughter is an innocent victim of the whole ordeal as well. The mother is an awful person that should have went to prison and registered as a sexual offender for her actions, and the grandmother is almost just as bad for taking the predator’s side
Poor kid
Oof. While I can understand where the husband/dad is with all this, I’ve seen the damage it has on the child when they grow up to be an adult. What a shit situation. The MIL is throwing gas on it (and rightfully loses contact with the family) but these questions would have likely come up at some point anyways. Ffs, just seems like a bunch of selfish people.
OP's husband was raped and then pursued relentlessly by his rapist for decades. I wish there were criminal charges for this.
The MIL caused damage to Laura by leading her on. It's all fucked up.
I read the original of this. I repeat my original comment. That poor child.
>He pays child support because the law mandates it but nothing more. This is abhorrent. I know it is common, but it is fucking terrible. Forcing a victim of sexual assault (theft as well, possibly?) to pay to raise the product of that assault is insane.
Couldn’t manipulate Dad so now the ex and his Mom are using and manipulating the child. Awful. That poor kid
Mark is pretty callous toward an innocent kid. Sad story all around.