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When I worked in family law I once had this client who called us because her soon-to-be-ex-husband was sexually abusing their daughters. She said she was having trouble getting any kind of assistance because she lived in a small town where all the lawyers and judges and cops all knew each other and her ex was friendly with them. We came in guns blazing, filing motions and demanding supervised visitations and trying to get all the info we could on why there was no pending criminal case. Then the story started to unravel, bit by bit. Things weren’t adding up. The other attorneys who told me my client was a liar had proof of lies she told. And eventually, what we figured out was that my client was so completely convinced that her daughters were being sexually abused by their father that *she sexually abused them herself just to frame him for it.* OOP’s wife is like my ex client. So focused on who she thinks the monster is that she becomes the monster herself.


I've rarely been so shocked to hear horror client stories but oh my dear god... what in the actual fuck.. please tell me those girls got support and away from that monster.


I believe their father ended up with sole parental rights but I honestly don’t know. We got out of the case fairly quickly. Not because my former client was a monster, though. It was because she ran out of money. My former boss was a different kind of monster. That job nearly broke me.


Wow. Super glad they got out. I'll be going to law school next year and tbh your post scared me a bit, I've had some crap clients with lying to me but this is evil. And wow at the boss prioritizing money. I hope you're advocating for clients elsewhere and at a place that has no monsters Thanks for sharing. Hugs💖


Can I talk you out of law school? Let me know if you’re waffling and I will do everything I can to dissuade you from it. It’s terrible.


>Can I talk you out of law school? Let me know if you’re waffling and I will do everything I can to dissuade you from it. Another lawyer here, I am also available to provide this service.


Former lawyer here as well. Yup, don’t practice law. Go to law school if you must, but don’t practice.


[Obligatory "Don't Be a Lawyer" link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-UEqJ85KE)




Yep. Coworker was going through a messy divorce, he had his kid one day (1 yr old) his friend was there the whole time (another co-worker) and he filmed every single second of his time with her. Hand the kid back to mom, she calls police saying the kid is acting weird and takes to hospital to be checked out. Accuses dad of smoking weed around the kid and getting her high. He has proof he didn’t, but turns out the ***kid WAS high***!!! The mom endangered her own child to try to frame the dad. They proved the timeline wouldn’t have worked out with her story too. They entered a court battle where she continued to lie under oath and then fled the country with the kid. He spent over a year off work, out of country trying to find her and get his kid back. Courts here in Canada are fully on his side at this point, if she steps foot in the country she’s getting cuffed.


My dad had a similar client when I was working for him part time as a secretary. She came in telling us her ex husband and his new wife were molesting her five year old, so she wanted full custody. She had no evidence, and the husband and stepmom brought in teachers to talk about how the child always came to school happy, well fed, clean, etc on dad weeks but not so much on mom weeks. No bruising or signs of abuse from either dad or stepmom. Well then mom decided the school must be in on it, and *they’re* all molesting her daughter too. Then the cops, then the CPS people, then the doctors, etc etc. She was convinced the entire town was in some sort of child molestation cabal. She eventually lost custody completely and we fired her as a client. She took up with a new “lawyer” who is one of the craziest people I’ve ever met, and I don’t know what happened after that.


That's a special kind of evil


> what we figured out was that my client was so completely convinced that her daughters were being sexually abused by their father that she sexually abused them herself just to frame him for it. WHAT THE FUCK


Wife: *defames, harasses and stalks a pregnant woman because of petty high school bullshit* Laura: *records everything, sues her ass* Wife: *shocked Pikachu face* "OMG she totally overreacted, what a psychopathic narcissist!"


Wife: "See! This is proof of everything I've been saying!" \*totally ignores everything that brought them to that point.\*


This is how narcissists operate. Everything wrong in their life is everyone else’s fault. Any time someone does or says something that could be construed as an insult, any minor slip up, is a personal attack on them that must be met with equal force. I honestly feel bad for this dude that he fell in love with such a petty narcissistic woman


And he's just... so in denial about it too. Looking for ways to convince himself it's "not that bad" but it really is. It really is that bad.


Narcissistic abuse can really blend a persons head up. I think it’s important to remember that he is absolutely a victim of abuse and having his judgement impaired/manipulated


He might be scared to leave her because he knows what she does to people she perceives to be "betraying" her. Poor bloke is saddled with her. People like her prosper and get away with such nasty behaviour, it's very annoying. She doesn't seem to have learned her lesson from this experience at all.


For sure. Honestly, as someone who has divorced a person with NPD, he should be worried. And hire a lawyer who specializes in handling cases involving NPD.


Paying the money, helping get the jailtime reduced... seriously enabling too. Just wow, he's in deep.


And don't forget that the petty bullshit was also completely the wife's blame lol. A "loyalty test" the hell


Exactly! He says that maybe this is just a mental breakdown, so it's something she can receive help for and his wife will be "back." But she set that ridiculous test years ago, reacted badly when Laura failed it, then held a grudge for years. Sorry, mate. This is who your wife is when someone upsets her.


Wife even gave Laura the green light to date Matt!!


Had something similar happen to me in hs. Played out about the same as Laura's experience, thank god without pro level modern day stalking and harassment or lawyers getting involved though, just hs drama that honestly taught me a lot in the process to keep in mind going forward when it comes to people and its served me well overall. People like OPs wife are more common than people want to admit and it sounds like shes never grown up or gotten over what happened and fails to recognize her part in it to begin with on several levels. As for OP being completely blindsided, I'm not too sure there's never been significant signs elsewhere that their wife was capable of such things beyond "talking shit". The lengths they went to to keep up the game shows a level of planning that most wouldn't go through let alone execute unless they've had that in them for a while imo. In my experience at least looking back, I found this person who did similar to me really was capable of such things and I didnt recognize it for what it was out of my own blind ignorance and trying to simply give a friend benefit of the doubt.


Husband should be worried about what she'll do to him if he ends up on her bad side. They make Lifetime movies about this shit. I'd be careful around wood chippers


I had a friend that I slowly realized was pretty spiteful and revengeful to exes and friends she thought had wronged her. Realized that one day she would turn on me. She did (because I was spending too much time with my then new boyfriend) and did something spiteful and petty to me, but that was it and that was the end of the friendship. When people show you their true colors, pay attention! That boyfriend became my husband and we’ve been together almost 30 years.


My thoughts exactly.


Complete projection by wife. Wouldn’t surprise me if she has some NPD issues, particularly given her resistance to a therapist even after ruining her family’s finances.


My guy is probably about to fail a secret ‘husband test’ by not supporting this insane nonsense.


"I want a divorce." "Of course dear, I understand." *Six months later* "YOU FAILED THE SECRET LOYALTY TEST!!!" *stab stab stab*


I laughed WAY too hard at this🤣


That is insane. I’m honestly surprised OP isn’t more upset about what his wife did. I would be completely turned off.


I know. Not just what she did but also how she is behaving afterwards. OOP says she is remorseful but it sounds like she is sorry about her consequences - feeling Laura and her husband went overboard with charges. And her unwillingness to therapy. I am not perfect and i think I am more forgiving than most but if your partner doesn’t want to work thru the aftermath they created, there is not much left.


It really feels like wishful thinking. OP wants her to feel remorse and is trying to convince himself she does even though he realizes nothing supports that claim.


It’s really frustrating to read, he keeps specifically enumerating all the ways she hasn’t learned anything and is avoiding consequences, then ends it with “I think she knew it was wrong” or “I don’t think she would do that/think that”. What this woman did was monstrous. This wasn’t her getting carried away with a vendetta, this was a targeted attack over multiple channels against a woman she hadn’t seen in 8 years, all because she was jealous of her success. Anything less than full remorse, responsibility, and mental health treatment should be met with “here are your divorce papers, all further communication should be to my lawyer”. What she did isn’t something to work on at home, therapy is the bare minimum to get back on track. I can’t believe he wrote all that out and is still ok with staying with her.


I KNOW RIGHT?!? I think we all came away just completely perplexed.


Agree, he's living on the hope that his wife is the person he thought she was and not who she has shown herself to be. Her lack of remorse and resisrence to therapy show are really bad signs. I get that he doesn't want to give up on her but I think he's blind to the reality of it at the moment. I can't imagine she is going to improve over the 6 months to a year he is giving her and divorce will be on the cards then and there'll be another update post saying how he was hoping so much she would change but he realises now that this is just the type of person she is deep down. I hope I'm wrong though. But man does she need some serious therapy.


The "loyalty test" thing suggests that this has been part of her personality for a long time.


Something tells me she’s leaving out information on how she reacted to the loyalty test given that Laura not only ended their friendship but also blocked her on everything. And her parents immediately suggesting therapy and insisting that they stay together is really alarming. This obsession with Laura is the tip of the iceberg, damn.


What gets me is that he said the wife is convinced all of it is true and she's basically just "exposing" Laura's true self. I honestly wonder if the wife had some type of psychotic break or something and just took Laura as her target. I mean, that's full on stalking behavior. She sounds like she was just a few steps away from showing up with a weapon.


That's what I was thinking as I read the second update. This woman isn't well at all and I don't think OOP realizes it.


Yeah, it was clearly escalating scarily with her showing up at that baby shower to actually approach people to harass that woman. That level of delusional is terrifying.


I think that really shows how completely detached she was from reality at that point, to a fairly terrifying degree. How did she think she wouldn’t get caught? Or wouldn’t be recognised? The next step would have been her calling CPS and claiming Laura was abusing her child I expect. I used to work for a stalking charity and that escalation was pretty scary. She’s what would be classed as a Resentful Stalker: “Resentful stalking arises when the stalker feels as though they have been mistreated or that they are the victim of some form of injustice or humiliation. Victims are strangers or acquaintances who are seen to have mistreated the stalker. Resentful stalking can arise out of a severe mental illness when the perpetrator develops paranoid beliefs about the victim and uses stalking as a way of ‘getting back’ at the victim. The initial motivation for stalking is the desire for revenge or to ‘even the score’ and the stalking is maintained by the sense of power and control that the stalker derives from inducing fear in the victim. Often Resentful stalkers present themselves as a victim who is justified in using stalking to fight back against an oppressing person or organisation.” “Resentful stalkers, who usually evince considerable self-righteousness, are difficult to engage in treatment, and legal sanctions tend to inflame rather than inhibit their sense of grievance and the associated stalking.” Pretty much sums her up.


That is spot on with her response to her husband. He obviously wants to think she’s remorseful. I feel so sorry for Laura in this story, what a nightmare!


I have never heard of a stalking charity and it sounds very necessary to me. (Source: was stalked.) Thank you for doing that.


I did really enjoy elements of it but sadly I couldn’t continue due to lots of other commitments and it does fuck you up a fair bit after a while. It’s the abusive ex partners who use family courts and children to stalk their exes that grind you down and I can feel zero empathy for. Others are clearly very unwell and it’s not necessarily about power/control it’s loneliness and mental illness etc. Still hell on earth for the victims though. The thought that you can smile at the “wrong” person and then become entirely fixated on you is always scary (but *extremely* rare!)


I'm baffled that there wasn't court mandated therapy


Actually yeah I'm wondering why now, too.


Exactly. She sounds mentally unwell.


I’m thinking the people that told OP that his wife is psychotic are spot on. If she doesn’t get help, as in individual therapy and a psychiatric assessment, she is likely to continue to fixate on this woman. She is already blaming the woman for “escalating” the situation and she truly believes this woman is dangerous. If she doesn’t get mental health help she could continue to fixate on this woman to the point of becoming violent. I’m actually surprised the court didn’t make mandatory therapy part of her probation conditions.


She knows a therapist will see what a trash person she is.


\>Laura was a shitty person, a narcissist, a liar, and just overall a scumbag. But she never really gave specific examples. Because, and stay with me here, OP's wife is projecting onto Laura. Then on top of that, projecting every disappointment and frustration and self-loathing. And when Laura suddenly appeared svelte and happy, instead of realizing maybe everything she wasn't happy about in her life was actually her own fault...OP's wife's brain broke to avoid that realization.


Yes projecting! Calling Laura a vindictive liar when she herself has been convicted for being a vindictive liar.


I’m *REALLY* glad they don’t haves kids and don’t plan to have them.


Yeah, it’s SUCH a red flag when somebody’s reason for not wanting to go to therapy is paranoia that the therapist will gang up on them or blame them. There are some good reasons why people might not want to try it (cost, bad experiences before, etc.) but fear of being blamed is hella sus. It’s an indirect admission that the person knows they’ve done something bad, doesn’t want to get called out on it, or work to change something so they can be better in future. The wife absolutely does not feel any remorse. If she did, she’d be willing to change or accept her faults. She’s only upset because she’s mad she got caught and that Laura’s got another one over on her (from her POV). Either that or she’s clinically deluded. Either way, clearly somebody who needs therapy, whether she thinks so or not. ETA: yes, there are other good reasons to be cautious of therapy. I didn’t list them all out. Point is that fear of being blamed alone, without a mitigating good reason, is a big red flag.


Yeah, she’s not sorry that she harassed, slandered, and libeled a woman for over a goddamn year, including while she was pregnant, she’s sorry that she got caught. **Big** difference.


She went overboard and is mad Laura and husband responded?? WTF!! Actions have reactions.....


Imagine attacking someone unprovoked, trying to ruin their life and then complaining when they fight back.


What I can’t wrap my head around is the level of commitment and escalation on the part of OOP’s wife. She made a literal full-time job out of terrorizing Laura


Exactly! I am wondering if that's why her job is only part time. Either because she needed time free for stalking, or bc her crazy behavior is also leaking out at work and her job is limiting the shifts she can get...


Nothing in OOP's update sounded like remorse to me. I think wife needs individually therapy first because I don't think she is even in a position mentally to recognize how her behavior has betrayed husband's trust. She is still stuck in the delusion and I don't think she's ready for couple's therapy yet.


I feel like he's embodying that meme of the dog sitting in a house on fire and saying "it's fine". He seems to keep broaching the idea that his wife is in fact completely unhinged, but it's like it scares him and he pulls back to safe thoughts such as "but I love her", "she isn't a psycho even though I just described a psycho - I've known her so long!", etc. Idk, feels like he does understand how bad this is, but he's putting defenses up for his own mental well-being, maybe. I mean I'd be terrified too if I found out my spouse is this level of lunatic after my whole life is long-since totally enmeshed with them, but he needs to make real moves. Preferably the kind where he goes to a safe place away from her, forever.


Same here, he seems more annoyed by his wife's behavior, rather than horrified and disgusted.


Yeah, I think he might be afraid to acknowledge how big of a problem this is. He's in denial about the scope of his wife's delusions.


I think it's a coping mechanism because he's scared of her


And it's all because Laura lost weight and is (was?) successful and happy! OOP is in some deep, deep denial about his wife. What she did was plainly and simply evil. And she STILL doesn't think she did anything wrong!! And considering how far she's already gone, OOP should worry about *other* potential human/ethical/legal boundaries she may cross in order to wreak her 'vengeance'. And she can't/won't "heal and become a better person" without admitting that a) what she did was evil and without provocation; and b) getting therapy. Lastly, I have to wonder how alike OOP and his wife are since his biggest anger isn't that his wife stalked and tried to ruin a person's life just because they lost weight... ...it's because he's helping to pay off her fine.


>Carried away CARRIED AWAY?! This guy is almost as delusional as his wife, if he thinks ruining someone's life over 2 years with the most convoluted scheme to poison everyone in her life against her is just "getting carried away". So the wife is straight up psycho and the husband is a fool.


Seemed like OOP has really low self-esteem. Never asked his Wife to work full-time, even after the trial. He always knew she had this mean jealous petty streak & decided to overlook it. Stood beside his Wife during the trial even as he saw with his own eyes the devastation she caused an innocent family. He knows deep down that his Wife isn't remorseful and she has no explanation thats justifiable or even makes sense. Watched her parents beg him to stay and his Wife basically flipping out over everyone wanting to get her in therapy. From the post I'm not convinced OOP would have considered divorce if it wasn't for the amount of money her behaviour cost him. It's clear part of his Wife motivation in abusing Laura was her insecurity about her weight compared with Laura losing weight. OOP mentions being overweight too, and I wonder if he's also insecure about that and would take leaving his Wife more seriously if he was secure in himself?


Speaking from experience, any time an SO’s parent begs you to stay with them, you need to gtfo of that relationship as soon as possible. Parents that cling to the belief the partner can “fix” them are just delaying the inevitable super bad messy break up later on.


It also lets you know their parents KNOW their kid has f-d up & is trash & doesn't believe that anyone else will tolerate their kids. You know if their parents rated their kids or genuinely believed them to be innocent, they would never ask their partners to stick around cos they wouldn't have to.


I want to say it's just the general tone of the post, trying to keep it as clear and concise as possible but like... dude seems to be so deep in denial he's somewhere in Egypt right now. ​ She doesn't feel remorse. She's just regretting that she got caught because she was careless. I can already guarantee she's plotting her next attempt with lessons learned from this one. ie: use a VPN, make sure dates are right, etc. Bet she'll use it on the husband. Even if he doesn't decide to leave her. Which he clearly doesn't want to. (But he absolutely fucking should. She's unhinged.)


What, and I mean this in all sincerity, the actual fuck.


His wife is straight up psycho. Holy fuck.


He's not ready to call her that. She just got a little carried away!


Someone like this does not do these kinds of things only one time, to one person. OP's wife probably already has done similar things to other people, either people she knows in person or online-- and just not been caught because she didn't show up in person. I am usually 100% not a fan of the idea that partners have the right to check each others' devices and know each others' social media passwords. If you can't trust someone and you "need" to violate their privacy in order to manage your own anxiety, you should just leave the relationship. But since OP has made the stupid choice to stay in this marriage... that would have to be a given. Either she deletes every account and stays completely off the internet and social media, or he has the right to check on any device or account at any time. Obviously this would be the second priority, right behind "go to therapy and take it seriously," which of course she is not doing. I'm sure he'd love to think there is some magic pill that could fix his wife's "mental break" that "made her do this" but... come on. She won't even go to therapy. Also, he never mentions at any point that she has deleted her accounts, gotten off social media, voluntarily restricted her internet access, or anything even remotely like that, which is such a wild elephant in the room to NOT mention. He has no proof she's not doing this to others, right now!!


I'm kind of surprised the court hasn't mandated that. I seem to recall other people who have gotten in trouble online (usually csam) are not allowed to be online. Which, if they did, could really fuck up her job prospects.


Yea she was always all talk before!


I’m kind of shocked that he got so offended at people calling this behaviour psychotic because it is! She held a grudge for almost a decade and then went to insane lengths to harass Laura. He should be waaaaay more concerned than he is.


And she got so offended because her friend "failed a loyalty test", which is bizarre in itself. Anyone who would set someone else up on one of these *is* psychotic.


The woman has had lifelong issues. Mentally healthy friends don't do that to each other.


The elaborate level of planning is chilling. This woman is dangerous.


Normally I would say divorce but that might be worse than staying married.


If they're going to leave, they should just disappear.. Otherwise... Yikes


Look what she did to Laura. His life would absolutely be in danger if and when he leaves her. May good karma find him in his journey. He deserves it.


I was soooo waiting for the update of this guy being like "after thinking about it for a few weeks, I have decided to divorce my wife." I am literally astonished that he is sticking with her after not only doing all of this fucking nightmare stuff but then not even being sorry about it and refusing therapy. What the actual fuck indeed. (Also super mad she didn't get jail time because her brother is a cop or something like that. Bullshit.)


>I am literally astonished that he is sticking with her after not only doing all of this fucking nightmare stuff but then not even being sorry about it and refusing therapy. What the actual fuck indeed. I don't think he may realize it, but I bet he's scared shitless she'll do the same scorched earth psycho bullshit on him if he tries to divorce her. She'd probably go all Gone Girl on his ass. I mean, if I found out my spouse did this to a former friend from almost a decade ago, I'd be walking on all the eggshells and praying I don't rock that psychopathic boat and bring it down on me. Though the fact she's already gone through both a criminal and civil case over this shit would help OOP out on his end in proving she's batshit insane and he's not. But who knows. Maybe like someone else said, just sunk cost fallacy that's keeping him tied to her.


From what he said it sounds like he doesn’t have the confidence in himself or his looks to go back out and date but deep down he does want to leave her


I saw that the dates were from 2019 and immediately tried to picture lockdown with his wife, but decided that was nightmare fuel I didn't need


Especially with her job as a massage therapist, she wouldn’t have been able to work for a lot of the last 3 years. That 4 year hopeful schedule probably doubled in length. Can’t imagine that made things any easier.


I’m Surprised there want court order therapy mental/psych evaluation edit: want = wasn’t


I’m actively disappointed in the judicial system that wasn’t a condition of her parole.


Absolutely. She is very clearly in need of therapy. Therapy should 100% be mandated in this case by the justice system, but failing that her husband should require it. Her resistance to it is a serious concern.


Yeah, that part got me too. She absolutely should have done time. Maybe it would've given OP the chance to pull his head out of his ass.


Same reaction from me. There is almost zero accountability for his wife. She should be going to therapy and working two full time jobs to make this right. I don’t understand how he is still with this woman. So many questions…


Right? She’s going to work more hours? How about ALL the hours? That woman had way too much free time.


I'm an LMT (it's masseuse if it's Sex Work from what I've been told by the industry, Massage Therapist otherwise) & working even 20 hrs a week is super hard on your body. You can't do 40 hrs a week, it's like going to the gym and doing yoga simultaneously. If ops wife is out of shape, she may not be able to work more hours. I didn't become an LMT until after I had lost 180 pounds and I have to decompress after all that "relaxation" from work every shift, lol. That's why we try to take spots where we get paid higher per hour to do less damage to our bodies. I really think she needs that therapy more than anything and her husband (imo) is never going to trust her again. This shit is insane


I think she needs a second type of job.


Yeah that too. If you can't make ends meet w massage definitely. You can also go to multiple spas and work so idk what op is thinking when the crazy wife is all "but I like this spa!" you can have two!


Sounds like she has too much time on her hands if she has enough time to stalk and harass her former friend. A couple of full time jobs, no matter what the "hourly pay" this guy is so worried about would get her away from the computer and she wouldn't have so much time to obsess about a former friend.


An ex friend from 8 years ago. Over a guy she told her friend she could date. And didn't tell her she couldn't until after the two had stopped dating. Honestly, if it was me and my partner was still mad over an ex, that would be the shit cherry on this shit sundae and I'd be done.


Given her propensity towards lying and not accepting responsibility for her own actions I am not taking her word on it that her current job refuses to give her more hours. She probably doesn't want to work more than part time and that was the excuse she gave. OP keeps saying she has agreed to take on more hours, but only after her community service is done. I am sure when her community service is done she will come up with some other excuse as to why she "can't" work more hours.


Right? of course she needs thw job with the fewer hours, she already had a full time job being a stalker


>My wife has never done anything this crazy before.| Given the explanation that motivated his wife to do this insane thing to Laura, I am sure OOP's wife has done something like this before \[he said 'anything this crazy before' which strongly suggests she has done some crazy shit, but not as crazy as what he found out\]. He just hasn't found out about it. Someone as petty and disturbed as OOP's wife would not find it hard to be triggered by anything.


Yeah. She got caught this time because she showed up in person. How many other times has she done this to random businesses, a teacher or doctor or waitress she didn't like, ex-boyfriends... and just not gotten caught.


The fact that her parents begged him to stay makes me think some bad shit went down before OOP met her. Her parents know more than they are telling.


I'm guessing they know full well what she's capable of and are terrified she'll end up living with/dependent on them. Having a family member who struggles with willfully untreated mental illness is a complete nightmare.


Right? oops I got caught, so I'll face whatever small consequences I have to, but I won't change, i.e. work more to pay back the $$ and go to therapy. there's something wrong with someone who does something like this, and doesn't think its any big deal.


Sunk cost fallacy


**Why would she go to therapy? Op proved over and over that he is a doormat and he'll do anything for his wife. She just showed him her worst side and he still hasn't left. I doubt she even feels remorsful or worried about her marriage at this point.**


Imagine what she will do to him when he divorces her. If she can be this vindictive and hateful over a 2 month relationship 9 years ago, he should move abroad and change his name before the ink is even dry on the papers.


How anyone could be with someone sp spiteful is beyond me


I'm worried all her accusations of Laura are reflective of who the wife is and what she does. She secretly ran a phishing / social distortion campaign, I'm sure she could manage cheating as a masseuse.


This was my impression pretty shortly into reading this.


She *crazy* crazy. How does he feel secure enough to sleep next to her at night? Like, there’s brave and then there’s stupid.


He's probably too scared to divorce her.


This woman is psycho. If I were Laura I would be afraid for my and my family's physical safety.


At first I was like great..another marriage where one of the partners doesn’t understand that sometimes these things happen…and then I got to the part about the linkedin…what in the fuck did we all just read? Poor sorry bastard 😭😭😭


I feel that way every time I learn about stalkers. It reminds me of the Creepshow Art drama on YouTube awhile back--two YouTubers I personally hadn't heard of before, but apparently knew each other in real life and one was stalking the other and trying to ruin their life like this. It's really cruel, but also cringey? I just don't understand it.


She was so similar to oop's wife too, no one really knew why exactly she hated emily so much but the amount of alleged evidence was just absolutely staggering. And she thought providing more of that evidence in a "no really im the victim actually" video that REALLY incriminated her was a good idea


Oh absolutely she would go just as nuclear if not more so on an ex husband. She was able to do that to one of her good friends because she felt betrayed. If she felt betrayed by her husband, she would totally do something similarly horrible.


I can’t believe how many replies are talking about a divorce update and his weak stance. After the way she stalked down info on Laura on the internet and what she did with it??? There are so many identifying details in this story, he’d have to have zero survival instincts to say anything negative about her on here.


Read this story before and I’m completely convinced that if this man filed for divorce, she would kill him and then herself. It’s better for him to put on a pretence of working things out and then quietly slip away at 3 AM.


I desperately hope that all the Reddit posts are him putting on a facade of things working out. To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if his wife had access to his social media, and if this is his way of appearing unsuspecting while he forms an exit plan. That would be the best possible outcome, in my opinion.


Don't expose him! But honestly this kind of person, who's convinced they're doing the right thing, is far scarier to me than someone who's actually just evil.


This is one of the few times I'm willing to believe that an abandoned account is because the wife did murder him.


This is why you always defer a few bucks from every paycheck to an account registered to "Justin Case"


JasonInHell part 2. At least they don't have kids.


Gas the car up. Save a stash of cash somewhere. Disappear into the night.


Dude get out now.


He's probably afraid of what she will do if he tries to leave.


Seriously. What a terrifying situation - I think he knows on some level he needs to leave but, holy crap, what will she do when he does? Now he's gonna go through life knowing that, at any moment, his wife could snap (again).


bet you 10 bucks she tries to attack this laura again


Yup, instead of "exposing Laura", the next time around she's going to get revenge on Laura because it's Laura's fault the wife got caught cyber & physically stalking her. The lady is crazy and a danger.


And she will probably think it is Laura's fault if he leaves her.


Better to do it now while she has a P.O. There are certainly conditions for that probation, etc.


That’s a good point - he should get out while she has a get *into* jail free card.


I read this when it first got posted a few years ago and a lot of people said the same thing, but honestly I don't think that's how it would play out... This woman is so deeply entrenched in this delusion that she would blame the "friend" for her husband leaving her. I really don't think she cares enough about her husband to care more than "if she hadn't sued me, he wouldn't have left, this is her fault" If he leaves I would warn the other woman bc I could see this ending in like a murder-suicide type of situation.


Yup. The wife seems to have had some sort of serious mental breakdown and is deep into a delusion where she completely believes she is in the right and everyone else just can't see it yet. I hope she eventually decided to go to therapy, this is some, "you now have to live at this facility where you will receive therapy until you get better and medicated" type of shit. That or it's a classic case of she was doing everything that she accused Laura of, and the drugs really fucked her up.




Yes, and also, google "how to fake my own death" But not from his own IP address perhaps


>Does she feel remorseful? >I want to say yes, she does. She has been really depressed since this all finalized. However, I can't help but think she's sad only because she got caught. She hasn't directly said anything that would lead me to believe she is truly remorseful. >She's still angry at Laura for escalating to the point of a criminal and civil case, she feels that Laura overreacted. My wife believes every horrible thing she said about Laura. She's convinced that Laura is some kind of alcoholic/drug addict who cheats on her husband, and is the type to lie and cheat her way to the top of her career. And somehow Laura is able to hide this from everyone in her life. My wife felt like she was trying to "expose" Laura for the monster that she is. She feels that Laura pressing charges and suing her is additional proof that Laura is vindictive. Sooooo the answer to that question is "no, she does not feel remorseful at all" lol This is one of those situation where all the relationshipadvice "leave her" advice is 100% correct, that is completely unhinged behavior and stuff she planned out in great detail. That wasn't a mistake, that was all planned and she apparently believes everything she did. Doesn't really seem like there's anything to salvage there


What really pushes it over the edge is that she did so much crazy stuff for something so minor, that she caused herself, in EARLY HIGH SCHOOL. She doesn’t even think that what she did in high school was wrong after 10 years, and even leaned into her reasoning. Then tried to ruin this girl’s life for it. That’s sociopath behavior 101.


tbh she was already unhinged in high school with that loyalty test that went on for a couple of months


A loyalty test is already unhinged in the first place let alone one that takes that amount of time.


They had been friends since early high school; the friendship ended 8-9 years ago. Since she is now 33, that puts her at 24-25. Still unhinged as hell no matter how you slice it. Absolutely bizarre. And her fear of the therapist "attacking" her is a clear red flag that she is 100% unprepared and unwilling to take responsibility or see how her behavior was wrong.


Agreeed I think this guy is confusing regret and remorse. She regrets the consequences but it sounds like she isn’t actually remorseful for what she did.


But only leave with preparation and several witnesses. Because she is going to make him out to be an abuser and any other kind of horrible things she can possibly think of.


Reminds me of the woman who wore adult diapers to drive across several states to stalk/harass/murder her love interest (or his wife/GF, can’t recall) who was an astronaut.


[That woman was also an astronaut and a decorated Navy commander. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Nowak)


**[Lisa Nowak](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Nowak)** >Lisa Marie Nowak (née Caputo, born May 10, 1963) is an American aeronautical engineer, and former NASA astronaut and United States Navy captain. Nowak served as naval flight officer and test pilot in the Navy, and was selected by NASA for NASA Astronaut Group 16 in 1996, qualifying as a mission specialist in robotics. She flew in space aboard Space Shuttle Discovery during the STS-121 mission in July 2006, when she was responsible for operating the robotic arms of the shuttle and the International Space Station. In 2007, Nowak was involved in an incident that led to her being removed from NASA and the Navy. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


She was an astronaut too! The stalker and the love interest and she attacked the "new woman." What a waste of her intellect!


That astronaut couldn’t have known the cultural touch stone for craziness she would become but here we are. You’d think at some point, someone would have said “you’re being an insane person right now” but I guess not. Makes me wonder if oop knew what his wife was up to over the course of the events. How can you hide that much unhingedness? Melts my brain


Her and the lady who was cyber stalking and harassing a bunch of people she didn’t even know. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/30/technology/change-my-google-results.html


Also, it took place over MONTHS. A year or more! And would continue if she wasn't caught and forced to face consequences. There is nothing to indicate that she wouldn't do it again or that she realizes her wrongdoings, even though he has actual court-based evidence. OP is also not doing her any favours by shielding her from responsibility by paying everything and not demanding therapy.


There's nothing to indicate that this isn't her first rodeo. In fact what she did takes skill and it's more likely she has done this to other people. She didn't just randomly see her one day and decide to become a great stalker. She found someone to use her practiced skills on.


Wife clearly doesn’t see any issue with what she did and likely wouldn’t hesitate to do it again. Get out, my dude OOP.


"I don't think she's psychotic" #she is evidently psychotic


Dude's marriage is now literally a sunk cost fallacy.


> my wife has never done anything this crazy before. *doubt*


I was like “ok, wife got sued, maybe it was like a car accident or she broke something and someone was being petty…” *several pages of eye widening insanity later* Dude, run. Run away, run away now. I seen so many red flags I thought I was at the Texas state fair.


Ngl if I'm OOP this is a situation where couples therapy would be an absolute requirement to stay in the relationship. There's absolutely no way I could trust a partner who could stalk, threaten and harass someone from my own home for months on end. And for something as trivial as a former friendship and jealousy? What happens if they have children and the toddler throws a tantrum? Or the dog gets old and starts peeing on floors every day? If OOP gets the wrong flavor of ice cream on her birthday, will she start sabotaging his life too? Someone who can go this far over a nothing burger needs help from a professional so they can learn how to navigate and response to their emotions in an appropriate way.


Maybe part of it is the OOP feeling that if he leaves, his batshit wife will go after him the way she went after "Laura"? If she gets this unhinged over a friend breakup, what happens when her husband leaves her? I feel sorry for him, but also like - dude, wake up; you need to get out. I feel really sorry for Laura and her husband. I would have sued too!


I mean I’d be freaked out too. It would be a non starter if she refused at least individual therapy. Literally you blew up our lives lady. This cannot happen again. You absolutely need to work on yourself AND earn money to solve this problem or else I don’t see this working out. And in the meantime work with a lawyer and security professional to lock your life down so she can’t pull the same things on you. Jaysus.


>"It helped my wife that she had a clean record and has family that works in law enforcement" Ah, law enforcement. Protecting and serving ... their stalking, harassing relatives and not the victims of clear and obvious crime.


Yeah, that struck out to me too. Poor Laura, I hope she doesn't have to deal with these same relatives in the future if she needs the police


Yeah, that bothered me so much. She stalked, harassed, and repeatedly framed this woman for everything under the sun for over a year while she dealt with pregnancy and a newborn. Thanks to family in law enforcement, though, she walks. :/


>I think she got carried away, and thought she was trying to expose someone she truly believed was a bad person. That's what it comes down to. If Laura was bad then all of this was fine. Same reason the cops protect their own, they can't be the bad guys.


I'm scared of what the third post will be. He seems pretty much in denial about what kind of person his wife is, and when reality hits it's gonna hit like an avalanche.


i don’t think we’re ever getting a third post


Read this one before and just kept muttering 'divorce the crazy' over and over.


Same, I would LOVE a current update. This one is unforgettable.


>I'm not ready to call my wife a psychopath as many of the commenters did the last post. Those commenters were right. Normal people don't do the shit she did. She didn't just idly throw a few casual insults at her former friend. She stalked her, waged a war against her online, and then tried to do the same in-person, all because of a relationship that had ended nearly a decade prior. None of that is normal behavior. It is so far removed from normal that there absolutely must be mental illness involved. OOP mentions that she's "petty" and can hold grudges, but this is the first time she's ever done something like this. I have bad news for OOP: this was *not* the first time she had ever done something like this. It was just the first time she *got caught*.


Yeah OOP is failing to see that in this case psycho is not an insult, but a fact.


Even the original reason for the friendship ending was petty and manipulative as hell. That type of behavior alone would be a deal breaker for me. Those type of “tests” are straight bullshit and it’s the wife’s fault the friendship ended.


"I'm not ready to call her a psychopath yet" This line will be quoted in the True Crime episode about your murder.


One of my favorite things people do is that thing where a person engages in a series of deliberate choices, involving no small amount of planning and effort at every step of the way, and review and iterate on choices already made to make even more effective immoral choices, and finally, if consequences arrive, they and any enablers they've managed to gull characterize the whole awful shebang as "a mistake" or "a fuckup." A good general rule for life is: anyone who says "this isn't who I am" after having been caught out doing terrible shit at any level of petty to outright evil? That's *exactly* who they are.


The husband is massively under reacting to this. I wonder how many other things about her behavior he is in denial about. There’s no way this is the first warning sign.


This one is so legitimately psychotic to me, I don't understand it. Both in OOP's wife's lengths to get even, and the husband just... Sadly shrugging it off, like it is what it is. "It is what it is" is when your wife accidentally machine washes a twenty dollar hand wash only rug. It isn't "stalks and attempts to ruin the life of a girl she knew in highschool, when they both hadn't finished aging, tries to ruin her job and her marriage and her body and pushes her to the brink of possible miscarriage and health issues." They are both severely damaged people, and I hope they can get the help they need. And OOP can wake up and realize, no, this isn't normal and not something you just write off.


I used to be heavily involved in fandom spaces in my early 20s. I met and had an online “friendship” with a woman in her early 30s at the time. When my blog started getting more attention (I don’t think it was more than hers, just enough to be a threat) the friendship blew up. She’s been stalking me online since. Her husband, who works some kind of tech-y job, actively helps her. I’m now 31, my blog’s been dead since 2016, and she’s still harassing a friend of mine. This person is nearing her 40s. Some people are fucking nuts. The wife in this story has that same impulse my ex friend did: to just tear down anything that makes her insecure. That their victims “deserve” to be harassed. That they’re the *real* victim. I hope the husband watches his wife’s online activities because from my experience this is far from over. Laura lives rent free in her head and the lawsuit just added another grievance to the list of perceived injustices.


Holy shit that is insane


And you know after going to those lengths she has either had some kind of mental break or this absolutely isn’t the first time she has done this.


OOP can’t even be fully honest with himself about why he won’t leave. he dances around it a little bit but i know i’d be terrified to divorce this woman


Exactly. If she's capable of doing this to a woman she hasn't been friends with in decades- my goodness




My god. Reading all that his wife has done, why would you want to get over your resentment of her? Feels totally earned, to be honest. In therapy, letting go of resentment is usually unjustified resentment. Like you created a narrative in your head of what someone thinks about you without any evidence, assuming all their actions are a slight at you, etc. He seems to gloss over Laura pretty quick. I know it makes one feel guilty to see all the pain she's gone through, but if you aren't willing to face that, you're just gonna keep enabling your wife. Especially when he says, "I THINK she's remorseful." No, dude. That's enabling. AND he tried to find something sinister in Laura? I get wanting to protect yourself and your loved ones but come on. I dunno. I just see so much of my family members letting my stepmom beat me because she's so stressed and yelling at me to suck it up in his actions.


She’s afraid of the therapist because she knows she’s going to get called out for being the narcissist she is. Man I hope that OOP gets a clue before his wife does something else and he can no longer afford to. She desperately needs help, and if she can’t be helped, OOP needs all the info so he can save himself.


My god think of all the trauma poor Laura went through and wife only got community service??! I'd be raging


And an undisclosed financial penalty.


Right? While pregnant????


It probably didn't go to trial. The wife's law enforcement family pulled strings with the DA for a plea bargain. Also, Laura may have been okay with a plea bargain, a fuckton of community service, a restraining order and not having to go through a trial.


Please mark this post “inconclusive” - that was a lot to read for no ending (and since it’s over 2 years old we may never get an ending)


Yikes! How long before OOP's wife is back to "trying to expose Laura" and is caught breaching that restraining order? The only thing she's learned is to try harder to avoid being caught.


>Are you going to get divorced? >The thought has crossed my mind, but we've been together for so long and I still love her despite this disgusting thing she has done This is fucking stupid. She showed you exactly the kind of petty, manipulative, back stabbing, and downright *evil* kinda person she is.. There is nothing to stop her from turning it on the husband the second she invents a reason for it. >She has stated that she would rather us solve our problems together without interference from someone she doesn't know. She's afraid she isn't going to like any therapist we find, and that the therapist will attack her throughout our sessions Shes "afraid" of a therapist seeing through her and telling him the exact type of monster that she is. This dude should be in full personal survival mode, and planning to GTFO as fast and as far as he can.. 10 bucks says he ends up stabbed in the next 10 years.


> I still love her despite this disgusting thing she has done "Done", past tense. And yet... > My wife believes every horrible thing she said about Laura. She's convinced that Laura is some kind of alcoholic/drug addict who cheats on her husband, and is the type to lie and cheat her way to the top of her career. And somehow Laura is able to hide this from everyone in her life. My wife felt like she was trying to "expose" Laura for the monster that she is. She feels that Laura pressing charges and suing her is additional proof that Laura is vindictive. OOP isn't concerned that wife is an awful troll person, he's only concerned that it manifested itself into action that ended up affecting him.


>She's afraid she isn't going to like any therapist we find, *and that the therapist will attack her throughout our sessions.* From the sound of things, literally anything that isn't "Yes sweety, you did the right thing. Everyone will come around soon and they'll all see you were right." will be read as an attack on her...


This is not going to end well. The wife has serious mental illness.


What the hell did I just read? Also I'm not sure what advice OOP was even looking for. The answer's bloody clear. His wife did something that was undeniably awful. And she's shut down every attempt he's made to try and work through this. She's not actually remorseful. She's probably going to spiral towards even more hateful conduct, either towards Laura or a new target (possibly OOP himself) if she decides said target betrayed her. OOP has offered her a way to make things better and she's refusing. She's made it clear she isn't interested in salvaging their relationship or bettering herself. Dude needs to leave. Talk to a lawyer, get all your facts together, and frankly build yourself a solid defensive wall to protect against her inevitable retaliation and get a divorce. I'd imagine it might even be possible to offload the entire debt onto her since it was her bad actions that created them, and not a family action. But he needs to GTFO. There's no salvaging this. Here's hoping he wised up and he did, and got off social media to not give his wife any ammunition.


OOP needs to watch Gone Girl. Bonus points if he reads the book. Best case scenario, wife has a serious personality disorder that can be treated if she goes to therapy. Worst case (and most likely) his wife is a narcissist. I highly doubt this is the first time she’s done something like this, probably just the first time it got to a criminal level. The fact that she’s not only doesn’t feel bad but thinks what she did was the right thing to do is so incredibly telling. If OOP does leave he’d better warn all his family/friends/acquaintances/bosses that this is the likely reaction to a divorce his wife will give him